**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 06 02:59:57 2009
Nov 06 03:00:03 <punzada> ha
Nov 06 03:01:32 <Glitch> why is that rick_home?
Nov 06 03:01:45 <reality9110> Hardly optimizes.
Nov 06 03:01:55 <Glitch> ah okay
Nov 06 03:13:01 <Giotto> any quick tips why my textfield might not get a focus when calling .focus() on it?
Nov 06 03:18:20 <Giotto> ooooooooooooooooh FUCK
Nov 06 03:18:35 <Giotto> God bless the WIKI!
Nov 06 03:18:45 <Giotto> Event.stop(event);
Nov 06 03:19:00 <Giotto> have to call that at the end of the button tap handler
Nov 06 03:21:41 <sugardave> bmyers: okay, so I have a dividerFunction, a dividerTemplate, an itemTemplate...it's almost there, but what I have is the "closed" divider graphic with my entire list immediately showing
Nov 06 03:28:32 <JenP> You ok Giotto? that's a lot of excitement
Nov 06 03:29:05 <bmyers> sugardave: ok
Nov 06 03:29:07 <Giotto> yup. it's just that event.stop line took me and a friend of mine at least 4 hours to figure out
Nov 06 03:29:29 <JenP> ohhh that sucks...but at least you figured it out
Nov 06 03:29:39 <JenP> so Yeah You!!!
Nov 06 03:29:41 <Giotto> yup, had to take a rum shot though to make it happen :D
Nov 06 03:29:52 <Giotto> but yeah, desperate times calls for desperate measures!
Nov 06 03:30:09 <JenP> hehehhe it's funny how that can help
Nov 06 03:30:42 <Giotto> for me, always :P
Nov 06 03:35:05 <haeffb> what is BOFH?
Nov 06 03:36:04 <JenP> bastard operator from hell
Nov 06 03:36:56 <haeffb> Ok. what is bastard operator from hell?
Nov 06 03:37:40 <sugardave> Soon, all will be revealed
Nov 06 03:37:46 <sugardave> if I can just solve this collapsible list
Nov 06 03:39:31 <JenP> hey how do you get komodo to pop up the color picker?
Nov 06 03:40:37 <sugardave> JenP: hold down ctrl
Nov 06 03:40:37 <JenP> figured it out
Nov 06 03:40:43 <JenP> jinx
Nov 06 03:40:46 <sugardave> hah
Nov 06 03:43:21 <bmyers> still working of the list sugardave?
Nov 06 03:45:35 <sugardave> yes, I'm still not seeing how the contents of my list are supposed to be being contained "inside" the collapsible divider thing
Nov 06 03:45:49 <sugardave> it's "closed" and the list is just there
Nov 06 03:47:35 <bmyers> this is mostly from stylematters
Nov 06 03:47:37 <bmyers> have a look
Nov 06 03:47:38 <bmyers> http://pastebin.com/d38be48f2
Nov 06 03:49:14 <sugardave> crap, this is what I was afraid of...how come I can't find that "little bit" of extra animation code logic?
Nov 06 03:49:18 <sugardave> alright, thanks
Nov 06 03:49:26 <reality9110> JenP: That ever play for you?
Nov 06 03:49:33 <JenP> Nooooo
Nov 06 03:49:34 <Sloloem> Giotto, where'd you find this?  I'm having a textfield widget autofocus problem myself.
Nov 06 03:49:42 <JenP> can you sent it to me again?
Nov 06 03:50:02 <Giotto> http://webos101.com
Nov 06 03:50:19 <reality9110> I'll send you the next beta in a few.
Nov 06 03:50:22 <JenP> webos101 is cool
Nov 06 03:50:28 <JenP> thanks reality9110
Nov 06 03:50:32 <reality9110> I need to write up the "About page"
Nov 06 03:50:50 <JenP> oh hey....totally hear that
Nov 06 03:51:05 <Giotto> Sloloem: what I've found out is that when you try to add focus after a buttonclick, you have to do an Event.stop(event) at the handler. otherwise the click itself would take away the focus :P
Nov 06 03:51:06 <bmyers> the movelements stuff does that
Nov 06 03:51:55 <sugardave> bmyers: right...okay, this is way more advanced than I'm willing to get into tonight, so BOFH Excuse Generator v0.0.1 is not going to have the full list, just the "get a random one" button
Nov 06 03:52:06 <sugardave> you guys will have to wait for the next release :p
Nov 06 03:52:14 <Sloloem> Giotto, I'm trying to get it to add focus immediately after setting up the widget in the setup function.  I'm using a dialog not a full scene but still want autofocus, and the autoFocus attribute isn't behaving as advertised.
Nov 06 03:52:40 <bmyers> oh, i was gonna make one of those!!!
Nov 06 03:53:01 <sugardave> you will laugh when you see mine, but it will get better
Nov 06 03:53:30 <bmyers> i'll help out..
Nov 06 03:53:44 <bmyers> lemme see what u got and I'll listafy it..
Nov 06 03:54:17 <sugardave> alright, hang on a sec
Nov 06 03:55:37 <Giotto> Sloloem: not sure what might be the problem :P do other attributes working fine? like setting a hint-text for example (with the hintText property)
Nov 06 03:55:52 <Sloloem> What's more recommended for storing application preferences, just 2 simple things?  Depot, Cookies, or SQLite?
Nov 06 03:56:19 <bmyers> i think it would be cookies..
Nov 06 03:56:26 <Sloloem> Giotto, yeah all the other attributes work find.
Nov 06 03:57:22 <bmyers> unless u got a shitload of preferences that are normalized.. then sql..
Nov 06 03:58:28 <Sloloem> bmyers, cool.  That's what I'm going with.  I had originally tried using depot but having to deal with callbacks just to load application preferences was just annoying.
Nov 06 03:58:59 <kesne> Any palm peeps here?
Nov 06 03:59:14 <kesne> I'll be in cali next week if they want to talk
Nov 06 03:59:30 <kesne> (though southern, not sunnyvale)
Nov 06 04:01:53 <Giotto> Sloloem: I'm running out of ideas but I'm sure it's just something small and stupid :)
Nov 06 04:20:38 <JustinHoMi> any ideas why Komodo + webos takes a *really* long time to launch+load a new app?
Nov 06 04:20:57 <JustinHoMi> (eclipse+plugin or doing it manually is much faster)
Nov 06 04:34:20 <sugardave> JustinHoMi: that seems to only be the first time for me, sunsequent launches are faster
Nov 06 04:34:24 <sugardave> subsequent
Nov 06 04:34:57 <JustinHoMi> it takes a long time every time i repackage it... maybe 5 minutes!
Nov 06 04:35:34 <sugardave> hmmm, that usually happens to me after I've left Komodo up for a long time...24+ hours
Nov 06 04:36:02 <JustinHoMi> i've had it open for a couple hours.. but it was doing this from the start
Nov 06 04:37:01 <JustinHoMi> hmm...  doesn't look like it's komodo's fault. having the problem w/ the commandline tools too
Nov 06 04:37:16 <sugardave> I blame Java
Nov 06 04:38:08 <Roy-Pre101> Blame Java, it deserves it.
Nov 06 04:38:26 <Roy-Pre101> Mac Heist bundle is totally free.  But... there's only one thing I'm really interested in anyhow.
Nov 06 04:38:32 <JustinHoMi> it's funny, i used to constantly blame things on java, but after messing w/ the webos kit I actually miss java...
Nov 06 04:39:20 <Roy-Pre101> Staticly typed languages do give you a bit of confidence about the code you've written.
Nov 06 04:40:05 <JustinHoMi> no kidding. As a c/java/python/perl/asm developer... I've come to hate html/javascript
Nov 06 04:40:30 <Sloloem> Eclipse is written in Java too, though...
Nov 06 04:40:45 <JustinHoMi> yeah, I installed Komodo so I wouldn't have to deal with eclipse :)
Nov 06 04:40:58 <JustinHoMi> i'll probably just go back to vim
Nov 06 04:41:12 <Roy-Pre101> I'm enjoying JavaScript but the learning curve where you get comfortable with the fact it won't tell you when you've screwed up your code is annoying.
Nov 06 04:41:34 <Roy-Pre101> So, anyone on facebook want to hunt treasure with me? :)
Nov 06 04:42:00 <JustinHoMi> haha, hunt treasure? is this another zynga game?
Nov 06 04:43:24 * sugardave will wait until he gets Uncharted 2 for some treasure hunting action.
Nov 06 04:45:04 <Roy-Pre101> close enough to Zynga game.  It's zSlide game. ;P  Treasure Mania.
Nov 06 04:51:01 <sugardave> did Adora just blow y'all's minds about 18 minutes ago?
Nov 06 04:51:27 <sugardave> presumable something about receving tweets via sms....
Nov 06 05:02:36 <Roy-Pre101> sugardave: heh.
Nov 06 05:02:57 <Roy-Pre101> I guess the sms in the pre interprets <marquee> tags.
Nov 06 05:05:08 <Giotto> 'night guys! see you tomorrow
Nov 06 05:05:14 <sugardave> Giotto: ciao
Nov 06 05:05:57 <sugardave> Roy-Pre101: did you take a look at my sample AdMob ajax request parameters?
Nov 06 05:06:48 <Roy-Pre101> sugardave: Not yet.
Nov 06 05:06:58 <Roy-Pre101> Ben busy on... well, nothing.
Nov 06 05:07:00 <Roy-Pre101> Been
Nov 06 05:07:02 <sugardave> hehe
Nov 06 05:07:30 <sugardave> well, when you decide to dip in the pool, that should do it for you
Nov 06 05:07:34 <Roy-Pre101> Setting up dreamhost account now.
Nov 06 05:07:40 <sugardave> moving the wiki?
Nov 06 05:11:13 <Roy-Pre101> yep
Nov 06 05:14:06 <Roy-Pre101> Think I'll go with dreamhost.  a bit more expensive than a2hosting but I'm pretty confident I won't have any problems with dreamhost.
Nov 06 05:16:30 <Justin|Watching-> i have dreamhost... it's pretty good
Nov 06 05:17:12 <JustinHoMi> more flexible than your typical web host
Nov 06 05:17:44 <JustinHoMi> performance is good now that most of the servers have local hard drives (they used to use nfs)
Nov 06 05:23:23 <sugardave> are these dedicate or shared systems?
Nov 06 05:23:35 <Roy-Pre101> shared.
Nov 06 05:24:36 <sugardave> might want to check bluehost.com and see if they can do it for you
Nov 06 05:24:41 <sugardave> I think about $1 cheaper
Nov 06 05:24:50 <reality9110> Ok.  Beta test time.
Nov 06 05:25:06 <sugardave> $6.95/month
Nov 06 05:25:12 <sugardave> reality9110: okay, what is it?
Nov 06 05:25:48 <Roy-Pre101> wtf?  You can't use a mysql database to test unless you transfer your domain to dreamhost?
Nov 06 05:26:04 <JustinHoMi> yeah you can
Nov 06 05:26:09 <JustinHoMi> it's just not straightforward
Nov 06 05:26:15 <reality9110> Roy-Pre101: Setting up a website?
Nov 06 05:26:45 <Roy-Pre101> Checking the wiki.
Nov 06 05:26:47 <JustinHoMi> create a subdomain, or create a dreamhosters domain
Nov 06 05:27:02 <Roy-Pre101> that's what I was going to do JustinHoMi.
Nov 06 05:27:09 <Roy-Pre101> Checking their wiki now.
Nov 06 05:27:25 <Roy-Pre101> must set up that site first I guess.
Nov 06 05:27:28 <JustinHoMi> it works... i've been through the same thing
Nov 06 05:27:35 <Roy-Pre101> Hopefully I can migrate that easily enough.
Nov 06 05:27:47 <JustinHoMi> yeah, create a site first. you need a domain setup
Nov 06 05:28:49 <JustinHoMi> you shouldn't have any trouble migrating. I've migrated a bunch of folks over to dreamhost
Nov 06 05:32:16 <reality9110> Now I need to fix my darn shift key
Nov 06 05:32:28 <Roy-Pre101> Hm, now how to set up a subdomain of dreamhost.
Nov 06 05:32:35 <Roy-Pre101> Just plug it in?  That might work.
Nov 06 05:32:41 <JustinHoMi> yep, that's all you have to do
Nov 06 05:32:46 <JustinHoMi> it's dreamhosters.com
Nov 06 05:32:55 <JustinHoMi> so create pre101.dreamhosters.com (or whatever)
Nov 06 05:33:28 <Sloloem> Gyah, why is this so hard
Nov 06 05:34:42 <Roy-Pre101> JustinHoMi, thanks.  That worked.
Nov 06 05:34:51 <JustinHoMi> sure!
Nov 06 05:35:17 <Roy-Pre101> Can you migrate the setup info there to the fully hosted site at some point?
Nov 06 05:36:33 <JustinHoMi> hmm. I think I normally just create the new domain and copy the data over to the new folder
Nov 06 05:36:49 <Puffy> how do I determine if a string ends with another string?
Nov 06 05:37:03 <JustinHoMi> IIRC, you can just continue to use the same database
Nov 06 05:37:07 <Puffy> i tries substr(-1,len) and .endsWith
Nov 06 05:37:13 <Puffy> either seemd to work
Nov 06 05:42:08 <Roy-Pre101> Hah, it would have created the db for me automatically.  :P
Nov 06 05:42:09 <Roy-Pre101> Oh well
Nov 06 05:42:14 <_droO> dreamhost has been ok
Nov 06 05:42:18 <_droO> i use westhost for vps
Nov 06 05:42:42 <JustinHoMi> i have a vps at dreamhost too... it has performed flawlessly so far
Nov 06 05:43:02 <_droO> dreamhost is quick to term tho ive heard
Nov 06 05:43:06 <_droO> or will term for dumb reasons
Nov 06 05:43:19 <_droO> but if its a webos site shouldnt matter
Nov 06 05:43:21 <JustinHoMi> i've had a django site running on DH for 2yrs. never had any problems (except when they decided to install their own version of django)
Nov 06 05:43:39 <JustinHoMi> yeah, i've heard stories on the forums about people who have had their accounts terminated without warning
Nov 06 05:43:49 <_droO> ya
Nov 06 05:43:51 <_droO> data gone
Nov 06 05:43:54 <JustinHoMi> it's usually b/c they're doing something illegal or against TOS
Nov 06 05:44:04 <Sloloem> ...HALELUJA!
Nov 06 05:44:05 <JustinHoMi> i keep my site backed up
Nov 06 05:44:08 <_droO> or someone claims ur doing something illegal
Nov 06 05:44:11 <_droO> out of spite
Nov 06 05:44:15 <_droO> and they term u w/o really checking
Nov 06 05:44:16 <_droO> ;o
Nov 06 05:44:24 <JustinHoMi> i doubt that happens, but ya never know
Nov 06 05:44:29 <_droO> nah
Nov 06 05:44:41 <_droO> i know people who have gotten pissed & gotten other ppls domains susp'd D;
Nov 06 05:44:41 <JustinHoMi> i've actually been impressed w/ their tech support team
Nov 06 05:44:51 <JustinHoMi> yikes
Nov 06 05:44:53 <Roy-Pre101> The other good news is that I can now upgrade to the latest MediaWiki
Nov 06 05:45:02 <_droO> just keep backups!
Nov 06 05:45:02 <JustinHoMi> heh yep :)
Nov 06 05:45:03 <_droO> lol
Nov 06 05:45:34 <Roy-Pre101> I was planning on moving my company website there if it works out OK.
Nov 06 05:45:39 <Roy-Pre101> I'll transfer one at a time over.
Nov 06 05:45:42 <Roy-Pre101> I have too many domains.
Nov 06 05:46:12 <_droO> that reminds me i need to renew one within like 3 days
Nov 06 05:46:27 <_droO> to avoid $160 charge ;o for going within 30 days of expiration;\
Nov 06 05:47:39 <Roy-Pre101> oops.  I have one expiring tomorrow
Nov 06 05:47:39 <JustinHoMi> whaaat. who is your registrar??
Nov 06 05:47:43 <Roy-Pre101> today.
Nov 06 05:48:06 <_droO> westhost ;/ i need to xfer it
Nov 06 05:48:18 <_droO> their hosting is good but have a lame policy that u have to renew domain 30 days before
Nov 06 05:48:26 <JustinHoMi> yeah, that's ridiculous
Nov 06 05:48:36 <_droO> ya, i only have one domain there
Nov 06 05:48:40 <pandora-0> that's bizarre
Nov 06 05:48:58 <_droO> namecheaps never fucked me over ;\
Nov 06 05:49:03 <_droO> thats who most of my domains are thru
Nov 06 05:49:46 <Roy-Pre101> Hmm...
Nov 06 05:49:57 <Roy-Pre101> I can transfer the domain to dreamhost and register it there for only $9 I think.
Nov 06 05:50:19 <Roy-Pre101> Save $6.
Nov 06 05:50:37 <JustinHoMi> yeah, i've started doing mine through dreamhost b/c it simplifies dns setup
Nov 06 05:50:53 <_droO> not hard to setup nameservers tho
Nov 06 05:50:55 <_droO> or forwarding
Nov 06 05:50:56 <_droO> ;o
Nov 06 05:51:09 <JustinHoMi> naw, but when you have a lot of domains, it's nice to save the step
Nov 06 05:51:29 <_droO> ugh i need to finish this app :/
Nov 06 05:54:15 <Roy-Pre101> Yeah, I need to be sleeping, or doing an app.  Not messing with web hosting.
Nov 06 05:54:49 <Roy-Pre101> I'll sleep and finish in the morning.
Nov 06 05:54:51 <Roy-Pre101> Night folks
Nov 06 05:54:54 <JustinHoMi> nite
Nov 06 05:54:56 <_droO> later
Nov 06 06:00:12 <sugardave> wow, Japanese techno Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer on Radio Rudolph from Bonn, Germany
Nov 06 06:00:31 <sugardave> that is....odd
Nov 06 06:56:33 <datafirm_> hello
Nov 06 06:56:56 <datafirm_> Im trying to use Ext Core for event handling in Mojo, but am getting odd results.
Nov 06 06:57:16 <datafirm_> has prototype been modified at all, or is it stock?
Nov 06 07:05:31 <JustinHoMi> datafirm, I don't know, but you could download the files and use diff/winmerge/whatever to find out
Nov 06 07:58:40 <synackfin1> anyone know why even after I switch the volume to "off" using the slider, Dungeon Quest is able to play its theme song??
Nov 06 08:46:07 <de_ramon> does anybody know if there will be a navi-GPS-app for europe?
Nov 06 11:36:39 <rwhitby> synackfin1: ringer switch doesn't affect all sounds for some reason
Nov 06 15:03:09 <MetaView> re
Nov 06 15:05:17 <atlanta> hello
Nov 06 15:05:25 <atlanta> ARES
Nov 06 15:05:45 <FreeTim3> 'sup
Nov 06 15:34:05 <atlanta> nothing u
Nov 06 15:34:06 <atlanta>  ?
Nov 06 15:36:08 <atlanta> i cant wait for ARES
Nov 06 15:36:10 <atlanta> see how good it is
Nov 06 15:36:11 <atlanta> lo
Nov 06 15:36:13 <atlanta> lol
Nov 06 15:36:15 <FreeTim3> well, being a n00b I am having a bear of a time with Depot and i think it's becuase i'm messing up understanding objects fully
Nov 06 15:36:17 <atlanta> or how much we are gonna hate it
Nov 06 15:36:30 <atlanta> FreeTim3: what dont u get
Nov 06 15:36:37 <FreeTim3> but i expect to warm up to it... I'm still on track to have my gps racing program completed by xmas
Nov 06 15:36:57 <atlanta> cool cool
Nov 06 15:37:08 <atlanta> i deciding what i want to use for my database
Nov 06 15:37:16 <atlanta> sql or depot
Nov 06 15:37:23 <atlanta>  sql might be easier for me to do relationships
Nov 06 15:37:27 <FreeTim3> well, if I create a basic object shoud I be able to write it, and then read it and I have log line outputting the object but shows blank instead of the text in the object
Nov 06 15:37:59 <FreeTim3> so ... it's probably either that i'm not creating object correctly or; that mojo.info won't print objects only text strings
Nov 06 15:38:21 <atlanta> yea i believe it only print text strings
Nov 06 15:38:22 <FreeTim3> right i'm doing Depot because it's a simple flat database
Nov 06 15:38:34 <atlanta>  because if u just try to print an object you should get [OBJECT{
Nov 06 15:38:35 <atlanta> ]
Nov 06 15:38:45 <FreeTim3> ok. so it sounds like i've first got to extract the text string part ouf of the object
Nov 06 15:39:03 <atlanta> yup yup
Nov 06 15:39:24 <FreeTim3> ok. That sounds like a good plan for my next step. Thanks
Nov 06 15:42:22 <atlanta> no problem
Nov 06 15:43:31 <FreeTim3> Maybe as a short project I'll tie Accellerometer to a sound output of someone screaming just for fun
Nov 06 15:43:38 <FreeTim3> So when someone picks up my  Pre it screams
Nov 06 15:43:47 <atlanta> lol
Nov 06 15:47:27 <Rick_work> FreeTim3 http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=9429
Nov 06 15:49:07 <Rick_work> FreeTim3  to get teh content of an object I use something like:
Nov 06 15:49:31 <Rick_work> $('debug').innherHTML = Object.toJSON(thingToInspect);
Nov 06 16:01:45 <lmorchard> Crud. Got a good start on a Mozilla Weave client for webOS, but performance is completely awful on a real Pre thanks to the crypto in JS
Nov 06 16:11:13 <datafirm_> Why are mostly all divs used in html views?  No other html tags are used.
Nov 06 16:11:30 <datafirm_> for descriptive text.. ie h3, span, abbr.. etc.
Nov 06 16:12:00 <atlanta> abbr seems pointless tome
Nov 06 16:12:09 <atlanta> i use span on text
Nov 06 16:12:29 <atlanta> div is the kings of all kings
Nov 06 16:12:52 <sugardave> datafirm_: you don't HAVE to use divs, unless you want to use Mojo Widgets
Nov 06 16:13:06 <datafirm_> ok.. I was just looking at code examples..
Nov 06 16:13:15 <datafirm_> I know I dont have to, just thought it was odd.
Nov 06 16:14:03 <Rick_work> datafirm  the Mojo Framework has code that seeks out div's of certain classes and applies CSS styling to them and makes them into buttons and performs other magic
Nov 06 16:14:07 <Rick_work> so everything is divs.
Nov 06 16:14:11 <Rick_work> You don't HAVE to do that.
Nov 06 16:14:54 <datafirm_> Rick_work: yeah, I understand that.. for widgets.  But for text etc.
Nov 06 16:15:23 <sugardave> datafirm_: some of the divs get pretty things styled to them, but you can use any tag you want, I think
Nov 06 16:15:29 <datafirm_> ie. email.app uses divs to surroind subject, date, flags etc.  Id symantically use p, h3, abbr tags etc.
Nov 06 16:16:26 <Rick_work> I use p a lot
Nov 06 16:16:56 <atlanta> p has become my enemy
Nov 06 16:16:56 <atlanta> lopl
Nov 06 16:17:07 <bmyers> div class for ppl picker icon ? anyone?
Nov 06 16:17:30 <datafirm_> Rick_work: ok.. so I only need to worry about using divs for Palm widgets etc.
Nov 06 16:17:39 <Rick_work> yeah
Nov 06 16:18:09 <Rick_work> but I avoid headers for other reasons,since I hate the stock styling of them anyway, so i end up using div's.
Nov 06 16:18:32 <Rick_work> the pre screen is SO SMALL ...  it takes careful work to make it workable.
Nov 06 16:19:37 <datafirm_> Rick_work: im surprised mojo does not reset all these elements so we can style them ourselves.
Nov 06 16:19:42 <datafirm_> that is what most devs are used to.
Nov 06 16:19:54 <datafirm_> ie.. this p tag has lots of upper/lower margin.. ;)
Nov 06 16:19:54 * sugardave reminds Rick_work about the Pixi.  "That's REALLY small."
Nov 06 16:20:05 <Rick_work> sugardave  it is
Nov 06 16:20:29 <ElVox> how many inches diagonal is the pixi?
Nov 06 16:20:35 <Rick_work> datafirm again,  lots of css work
Nov 06 16:20:42 <sugardave> ummmm....320x400
Nov 06 16:20:47 <sugardave> don't know the actual size
Nov 06 16:21:00 <gkatsev> 2.5?
Nov 06 16:21:22 * sugardave wills Dieter to wake up.
Nov 06 16:22:09 <gkatsev> it might be 2.5
Nov 06 16:22:32 <Rick_work> 2.63 inches across
Nov 06 16:22:47 <Rick_work> 320x400
Nov 06 16:22:57 <Rick_work> as opposed to the pre's 3.1 inches
Nov 06 16:23:14 <Rick_work> it's VERY SMALL
Nov 06 16:25:15 <MetaView> every scene needs Edit and Help, right?
Nov 06 16:25:22 <gkatsev> yes
Nov 06 16:25:30 <MetaView> ok, thx
Nov 06 16:25:42 <gkatsev> (AFAIK)
Nov 06 16:25:47 <Rick_work> and help mus have a method of contacting the developer
Nov 06 16:25:52 <Rick_work> and edit can be disabled
Nov 06 16:25:59 <Rick_work> and help can be disabledon the help screen
Nov 06 16:25:59 <sugardave> I played cakefight sudoku last night for the first time in ages....explain to me WHY I had to up my Mind Master hit targets?  the squares in sudoku are WAY less than even the new 32px "minimum" size
Nov 06 16:26:10 <ElVox> hmmm, the guidelines for touch target size should be based off of inches (or those meter things they use in the wrong parts of the world) and they should provide us with the DPI of the devices so we can use maths to adjust the target size on the client
Nov 06 16:26:44 <Rick_work> pixie is 194 dpi   that's a VERY DENSE SCREEN....
Nov 06 16:26:56 <Rick_work> pixie dpi is the same as the pre.
Nov 06 16:27:06 <Rick_work> so for now it doesn't matter.
Nov 06 16:27:08 <gkatsev> ElVox: yes, totally. though, we could technically calculate the dpi ourselves as well...
Nov 06 16:29:10 <ElVox> i didn't know the dpi were the same. o.O 194 dpi? That is pretty crazy! are you saying that with 50px touch targets (in a grid), you would have almost 16 touch targets in an inches?
Nov 06 16:29:54 <FreeTim3> Rick_work: Thanks! I just saw your responses
Nov 06 16:30:55 <Rick_work> goodscream huh freakout
Nov 06 16:30:57 <Rick_work> FreeTim3
Nov 06 16:34:32 * ElVox is freaking out over the pixi's touch target size
Nov 06 16:38:11 <datafirm_> Looks like these p tags are quite annoying.  When you style them and override the palm default styles, you get margin/padding issues on list-tap selected states etc.
Nov 06 16:38:33 <datafirm_> its like I have to explicitly call out each divs class to style it.. vs. selecting a tag to style.
Nov 06 16:38:55 <Rick_work> exactly
Nov 06 16:39:02 <atlanta> hince the reason i hate them
Nov 06 16:39:15 <Rick_work> which is why I use a wrapper div
Nov 06 16:39:30 <Rick_work> so I can do <div class=RickText> <p>
Nov 06 16:39:49 <Rick_work> and Ican style my p's inside the RickText div the way I want without messing with Palm's.
Nov 06 16:41:33 <datafirm_> Rick_work: thats what Im doing.. but how could that not mess with palms?
Nov 06 16:43:44 <datafirm_> yeah.. im pretty sure p tags are the devil too, atlanta
Nov 06 16:44:13 <atlanta> lol
Nov 06 16:47:14 <atlanta> grrr i want to see a video
Nov 06 16:47:17 <atlanta> of ARES
Nov 06 16:50:55 <datafirm_> atlanta: actually.. I worked around it.
Nov 06 16:50:57 <datafirm_> :)
Nov 06 17:03:46 <ElVox> datafirm_, per rich_work's suggestion you could do something like ".RickText>p {}" in css so only style the P's that are first level descendants of the div with the class "RickText" will be styled
Nov 06 17:04:39 <datafirm_> ElVox: yeah, vs. styling all the p's in .RickText p {} ?
Nov 06 17:05:57 <ElVox> well, if you have any webOS widgets inside your p's you would screw them up...it depends on what you are trying to achieve. if you know that all the Ps in RickText are your kind, then you don't need the ">"
Nov 06 17:06:25 <datafirm_> ElVox: yeah, i doubt id have widgets in there.. but good to know!  Thanks
Nov 06 17:06:30 <ElVox> np
Nov 06 17:06:52 <datafirm_> I like the fact we can rely on using css3 and its usage will be formatted by webkit all the time. no need for work arounds. :)
Nov 06 17:08:27 <ElVox> i get a little sick to the stomach when i see "-webkit..." styles though. I lived through the browser wars and I don't need some ass-hat company like apple just throwing shit into my standards in order to appease their mouth-breathing audience with more "shiny"
Nov 06 17:09:14 <Rick_work> ElVox  the -webkit stuff are almost always css3 standard things that webkit is implementing in advance.
Nov 06 17:09:25 <Giotto> hey
Nov 06 17:09:27 <datafirm_> yeah.
Nov 06 17:09:35 <Rick_work> and specifically the css animations and css translations are things _I WANT A LOT_
Nov 06 17:10:04 <datafirm_> yeah.. that spinning unread count in mail.app is really slow.
Nov 06 17:10:16 <datafirm_> its using background positions as frames..
Nov 06 17:10:21 <Roy-Pre101> Can you guys check out http://webos101.dreamhosters.com and just tell me if it looks faster, slower or the same as http://webos101.com ?
Nov 06 17:10:38 <Rick_work> deamhost - ouch.
Nov 06 17:10:38 <Roy-Pre101> Don't post anything yet, I haven't installed the syntax highlighting so I know that doesn't work.
Nov 06 17:10:56 <Roy-Pre101> Rick_work: Bad experiences with dreamhost?
Nov 06 17:11:10 <Rick_work> they tend to over-commit their servers.
Nov 06 17:11:22 <datafirm_> Roy-Pre101: using random page, it seems faster to me.
Nov 06 17:11:36 <Roy-Pre101> Can't be more overcommitted than mine.
Nov 06 17:11:38 <Rick_work> on the other hand that was a few years ago.
Nov 06 17:11:45 <Rick_work> good point Roy-Pre101
Nov 06 17:12:03 <ElVox> oh I agree, some of the things are cool. But in 10 years when you STILL have websites using "-webkit..." that don't work on any other browser even though everyone has long supporting the standard css way of doing the same thing, you can thank apple :)
Nov 06 17:15:51 <datafirm_> ElVox: mozilla and msft do the same thing.
Nov 06 17:15:57 <datafirm_> -moz anyone
Nov 06 17:20:58 <datafirm_> Im still having this issue where my new scenes are not being pushed from another scene.  No error is thrown, it just locks up the app.
Nov 06 17:20:59 <datafirm_> :-/
Nov 06 17:22:07 <Rick_work> datafirm_  there's an error, you're just not seeing it
Nov 06 17:22:17 <Rick_work> you do have logging set to 20 in your framwork json?
Nov 06 17:22:21 <datafirm_> no.
Nov 06 17:22:26 <datafirm_> How do I do that :)
Nov 06 17:22:27 <sugardave> I told you to check out bluehost...I have 6-7 domains (all low traffic) and I have had hardly any problems with them
Nov 06 17:22:38 <sugardave> plus, it's $2/month cheaper
Nov 06 17:22:41 <datafirm_> I'll check the framework.json in the docs..
Nov 06 17:22:56 <Rick_work> datafirm are you running the komodo ide?
Nov 06 17:23:45 <sugardave> Roy-Pre101: definitely faster
Nov 06 17:24:16 <datafirm_> Rick_work: no.. Textmate
Nov 06 17:25:27 <datafirm_> Rick_work: hmm, I cannot seem to find the docs on framework.json
Nov 06 17:26:55 <sugardave> it's framework_config.json
Nov 06 17:27:43 <sugardave> http://webos.pastebin.com/d795fda98
Nov 06 17:27:50 <sugardave> is a simple one that will log everything
Nov 06 17:30:06 <datafirm_> thanks.. nothing is being output for an error when trying to push this event, still.
Nov 06 17:31:19 <sugardave> are you using Mojo.Log.error or console.log?
Nov 06 17:31:52 <sugardave> oh, and make sure you put it in the same location as sources.json, app_info, etc.
Nov 06 17:32:47 <datafirm_> the extra logging is working.
Nov 06 17:32:55 <datafirm_> just not giving me an error when pushing this scene.
Nov 06 17:33:01 <datafirm_> Mojo.Log is being used.
Nov 06 17:34:31 <sugardave> is there an actual error?
Nov 06 17:35:00 <datafirm_> sugardave: no. no errors are show.  There is a log printed right before my call to push scene.  After that nothing and no responses from the app
Nov 06 17:35:06 <sugardave> oh, I see...have you put your scene push code inside a try/catch block?
Nov 06 17:36:43 <FreeTim3> datafirm that trick works for me, I use try/catch often and output errors to the console logs.  Example here http://freetim.pastebin.com/f36034d06
Nov 06 17:37:23 <Roy-Pre101> sugardave: I couldn't remember the name you recommended.  I looked at a2hosting in addition to dreamhost.  Was cheaper, but $24/year isn't a huge amount.
Nov 06 17:38:03 <sugardave> I hear ya
Nov 06 17:40:42 <Rick_work> datafirm_ what's the call to pushscene say?  and where are you calling it?
Nov 06 17:43:01 <sugardave> hi djk
Nov 06 17:43:03 <sugardave> bye djk
Nov 06 17:43:38 * datafirm_ pasted http://pastie.textmate.org/private/monkrbipvpx1wh2crlfwq
Nov 06 17:43:44 <datafirm_> Rick_work: ^^
Nov 06 17:43:53 <datafirm_> its scoped correctly.
Nov 06 17:48:26 <FreeTim3> Roy-Pre 101 : ixwebhosting
Nov 06 17:48:51 <FreeTim3> It's what I use, good customer support too over there. You can choose linux or Windowz
Nov 06 17:49:06 <atlanta_> is there a onListHold?
Nov 06 17:49:25 <sugardave> datafirm_: damn, that looks correct to me
Nov 06 17:49:48 <datafirm_> sugardave: yeah.. and the scene assistant is a stoke.. bare bones one from the palm template.
Nov 06 17:49:57 <atlanta_> datafirm_: do
Nov 06 17:50:07 <atlanta_> Mojo.Controller.errorDialog()
Nov 06 17:50:13 <sugardave> but you know you're sending an array instead of just the id to the scene, yes?
Nov 06 17:50:16 <atlanta_> (someerror)
Nov 06 17:50:21 <datafirm_> sugardave: yeah.. i fixed that ;)
Nov 06 17:50:25 <sugardave> okay :D
Nov 06 17:51:07 <Rick_work> datafirm_  try it without adding actorid  for me just for a moment to see if the parameter is wrong.
Nov 06 17:51:31 <datafirm_> I did.. but let me try once more, Rick_work
Nov 06 17:52:13 <FreeTim3> what prints from line 10 - does the actorID print as non null value
Nov 06 17:52:16 <datafirm_> Rick_work: same issue.. nothing is printed to log after the profile clicked log entry
Nov 06 17:52:30 <sugardave> and since I've been failing at proper scoping, have you tried 'Mojo.Controller.stageController.pushScene()' instead?
Nov 06 17:52:39 <datafirm_> FreeTim3: no, it prints the id.. well it did print that array, but I've slected the match
Nov 06 17:52:47 <Rick_work> datafirm_   get rid of the if.
Nov 06 17:52:51 <datafirm_> sugardave: yes.
Nov 06 17:52:57 <Rick_work> put the pushscene outside the if
Nov 06 17:53:26 <datafirm_> Rick_work: done.. same issue
Nov 06 17:53:28 <Rick_work> (((  I know good and well that isn't what you want,  Im debugging)
Nov 06 17:53:30 <Rick_work> well CRAP
Nov 06 17:53:40 <datafirm_> i know. strange.
Nov 06 17:54:50 <Rick_work> Mojo.Controller.stageController.swapScene('actor');
Nov 06 17:54:55 <Rick_work> ooops
Nov 06 17:54:57 <Rick_work> pushscene
Nov 06 17:54:59 <Rick_work> but anyway
Nov 06 17:55:01 <Rick_work> try that instead
Nov 06 17:55:06 <datafirm_> i have previously..
Nov 06 17:55:10 <datafirm_> but I'll try once more.
Nov 06 17:56:12 <datafirm_> Rick_work: no change.
Nov 06 17:56:38 <datafirm_> this is all being done in the emulator.. btw
Nov 06 17:57:05 <Rick_work> too weird.
Nov 06 17:57:08 <sugardave> hmmm...is the AppController still valid even if you're not using an app-assistant?
Nov 06 17:57:16 <datafirm_> yes.. shoudl be
Nov 06 17:57:21 <datafirm_> from what ive read
Nov 06 17:57:30 <datafirm_> (btw i will be using an appassistant soon)
Nov 06 17:57:45 <sugardave> Mojo.Controller.AppController.getActiveStageController().pushScene()?
Nov 06 17:59:19 <sugardave> that just seems wrong
Nov 06 17:59:21 <Rick_work> something else is wrong.
Nov 06 17:59:22 <datafirm_> heh
Nov 06 17:59:28 <datafirm_> yeah.
Nov 06 17:59:35 <Rick_work> ok
Nov 06 17:59:37 <Rick_work> Do this.
Nov 06 17:59:39 <datafirm_> these are fairly simple assistants at this point.
Nov 06 17:59:46 <Rick_work> put a pushscene in the activate of the assistant.
Nov 06 17:59:57 <datafirm_> i did that.. and it works.
Nov 06 18:00:01 <Rick_work> ok
Nov 06 18:00:02 <datafirm_> or it did.. let me try again.
Nov 06 18:00:04 <Rick_work> good
Nov 06 18:00:05 <sugardave> hallelujah
Nov 06 18:00:50 <datafirm_> actaully that only sorta works.
Nov 06 18:00:55 <datafirm_> it doesnt complete rendering.
Nov 06 18:01:19 <datafirm_> I wonder if its because Im using considerForNotification in the assistant?
Nov 06 18:01:57 <Rick_work> ok
Nov 06 18:02:01 <Rick_work> next test.
Nov 06 18:02:08 <Rick_work> ignore your current assistant.
Nov 06 18:02:21 <Rick_work> Push the actor assistant as the FIRST scene from the stage controller
Nov 06 18:02:42 <Rick_work> and if the darn thing doesn't render THERE, then it's the profile scene that's the problem
Nov 06 18:02:43 <datafirm_> done.. works
Nov 06 18:02:48 <datafirm_> tried that last night. :(
Nov 06 18:02:51 <Rick_work> oh
Nov 06 18:02:54 <Rick_work> ok
Nov 06 18:03:07 <Rick_work> but the scene doesn't render right when you push it from the activate?
Nov 06 18:03:20 <Rick_work> do you have another scene?
Nov 06 18:03:27 <datafirm_> not when I have the widget and Notification chain running
Nov 06 18:03:42 <Rick_work> a third one?  or could you make up a scene that was a bare bones "find me in" scene for a moment?
Nov 06 18:03:51 <Rick_work> and then go back to your list and push SOMETHING ELSE
Nov 06 18:04:04 <Rick_work> since I think the problem isn't in the list push I think it's in what you're pushing
Nov 06 18:04:44 <datafirm_> really.. what Im pushing is empty.. brand new.
Nov 06 18:09:05 <Rick_work> ok
Nov 06 18:09:23 <Rick_work> then what are you saying about the notification chain and the widget chain, 'cause there's SOMEHTING WRONG...  :-)
Nov 06 18:09:33 <sugardave> hahaha
Nov 06 18:23:05 <datafirm_> Rick_work: that is all removed now.
Nov 06 18:23:26 <datafirm_> I just have a scene with an event to tap the title bar.. then push a new 'foobar' scene.  still nothing and no errors.
Nov 06 18:23:27 <Rick_work> and no effect?
Nov 06 18:23:30 <Rick_work> I give up
Nov 06 18:23:33 <datafirm_> :(
Nov 06 18:23:43 <datafirm_> me too. I've put way too many hours into this.
Nov 06 18:23:58 <datafirm_> maybe I should try on 1.2 emulator.
Nov 06 18:24:03 <Rick_work> yep
Nov 06 18:24:08 <Rick_work> might be a bug
Nov 06 18:24:08 <datafirm_> but this is really simple stuff at this point.
Nov 06 18:24:14 <datafirm_> ive remove all business logic
Nov 06 18:25:13 <datafirm_> is it ok to push scenes in setup?
Nov 06 18:25:16 <datafirm_> or only active
Nov 06 18:30:21 <atlanta_> yea setup is fine
Nov 06 18:46:11 <datafirm_> its like this app is corrupt.
Nov 06 18:46:19 <datafirm_> something similar works in a new app
Nov 06 18:46:40 <datafirm_> but using same technique in this app with new scenes does not work.
Nov 06 18:49:30 <Giotto> pay a gipsy $5 to remove the curse from the app and you're done
Nov 06 18:50:30 <datafirm_> whoa found it!
Nov 06 18:50:42 <ElVox> missing a ";"? :P
Nov 06 18:50:48 <datafirm_> apparently Ext Core is not compatible with Mojo. :(
Nov 06 18:52:24 <ElVox> weird, in ##javascript they are discussing making webos apps
Nov 06 18:52:53 <datafirm_> ok.
Nov 06 18:53:09 <datafirm_> yeah it is weird. its working most places but interferes with pushing nested scenes
Nov 06 18:53:21 <gkatsev> ElVox: thats because its me and Templarian, lol
Nov 06 18:53:29 <ElVox> ahh
Nov 06 18:53:48 <ElVox> i knew the other nick looked familiar :D
Nov 06 18:54:28 <Templarian> lol
Nov 06 18:54:38 <datafirm_> Rick_work: figured it out.. Ext Core library was messing with nested scene pushing
Nov 06 18:55:21 <ElVox> ext? ugh, that library is 5x the size of my entire app
Nov 06 18:55:27 <ElVox> including the pngs
Nov 06 18:56:29 <Roy-Pre101> So, how's it going today?
Nov 06 18:57:52 <ElVox> oh nm, i guess ext _core_ isn't so big
Nov 06 18:57:59 <sugardave> if anyone answered my last question about twitter accounts, I didn't get to see it because my job's wireless routers decided to die
Nov 06 18:57:59 <datafirm_> yeah.. i just use Core.
Nov 06 18:58:12 <datafirm_> I like the oop structure and noramlization
Nov 06 18:58:21 * ElVox nods
Nov 06 18:58:25 <datafirm_> all of you are just using prototype??
Nov 06 18:58:28 <datafirm_> *sigh*
Nov 06 18:58:30 <sugardave> I am
Nov 06 18:58:32 <lmorchard> YEah
Nov 06 18:58:41 <lmorchard> It saves a lot of headaches and collisions
Nov 06 18:58:47 <datafirm_> it just sucks to write web apps differently because of this platform
Nov 06 18:59:00 <ElVox> im using jquery...haven't had a problem with it and mojo playing nice
Nov 06 18:59:03 <lmorchard> Thought I wish they'd just gone with something like Mootools, Dojo, or Ext more oriented toward larger apps
Nov 06 18:59:13 <lmorchard> jquery's an exception, wrt collisions
Nov 06 18:59:23 <lmorchard> though it doesn't give you tools to help with large apps
Nov 06 18:59:25 <datafirm_> lmorchard: Me too.
Nov 06 18:59:41 <datafirm_> like inheritance
Nov 06 18:59:44 <lmorchard> Prototype's pretty much the last JS framework I'd pick for anything, let alone an OS
Nov 06 18:59:56 <ElVox> i just don't see the need for "large" apps on a device with a 2.5" screen
Nov 06 19:00:01 <lmorchard> but I'm a plumber, and I work with what I got
Nov 06 19:00:06 <datafirm_> complex he meant
Nov 06 19:00:42 <datafirm_> Class.create here I come!! :-p
Nov 06 19:00:44 <lmorchard> Once you start dealing with DBs, web services, more than 3 scenes... it's starting to be a relatively large app as far as JS is concerned
Nov 06 19:00:46 <sugardave> but using Prototype has taught me a lot about prototypal inheritance
Nov 06 19:01:39 <lmorchard> but yeah, maybe s/large/complex/ is a better way to put it
Nov 06 19:01:43 <Templarian> (If they would have written their own API's in ECMA I think it would have been better for the future)
Nov 06 19:01:50 <datafirm_> the prototype chain is nice.. but the prototype framework is a bit wonky.
Nov 06 19:02:02 <datafirm_> Templarian: agreed, since its all based off webkti.
Nov 06 19:02:10 <Templarian> That's because prototype wasn't written for 1.8 JS.
Nov 06 19:02:18 <lmorchard> Even Dojo would have offered some nice packaging, widget, and OOP support as a base
Nov 06 19:02:23 <lmorchard> and they target non-browser environments
Nov 06 19:02:27 <datafirm_> there is no real need for a framework that works around all the inefficiencies in browsers.
Nov 06 19:02:46 <lmorchard> the HTML-based widget engine in Dojo is a bit nicer than Mojo's
Nov 06 19:03:08 <datafirm_> Im ok with palms widgets..
Nov 06 19:03:24 <datafirm_> i have not looked at the code.. are they utilizing the prototype framework?
Nov 06 19:03:34 <lmorchard> webOS is, yeah
Nov 06 19:03:48 <datafirm_> yeah it includes it.. but how much of webos depends on it?
Nov 06 19:03:56 <sugardave> doesn't it say somewhere "this might change"
Nov 06 19:03:57 <sugardave> ?
Nov 06 19:04:06 <lmorchard> Prototype is pretty well rooted in Mojo
Nov 06 19:04:12 <lmorchard> or vice versa that is
Nov 06 19:04:28 <lmorchard> From looking through the refcode that comes with the SDK and through code on the device, it's pretty pervasice
Nov 06 19:04:32 <datafirm_> wait.. vice versa?
Nov 06 19:04:37 <datafirm_> prototype has been modified?
Nov 06 19:04:52 <lmorchard> No, no... Mojo is based on Prototype.
Nov 06 19:04:56 <datafirm_> yeah.
Nov 06 19:04:59 <lmorchard> They way I said it, it kind of sounded the other way around
Nov 06 19:05:15 <Templarian> (they would have been better writing and extending prototype first though)
Nov 06 19:05:16 <datafirm_> oh well. C'est la vie
Nov 06 19:05:43 <lmorchard> Mootools might have even been a good start if they really liked Prototype
Nov 06 19:06:09 <sugardave> I guess the app review team is on vacation today....bummer
Nov 06 19:06:11 <Templarian> The point is they should of wrote Mojo as the framework and not built froma nother.
Nov 06 19:06:11 <lmorchard> as far as I can tell, most prototype users don't even write JS usually because Rails helpers do it for them
Nov 06 19:06:13 <datafirm_> I just think they should have used something that was more oriented in writing object oriented code
Nov 06 19:06:24 <datafirm_> Templarian: AGREED!!!!
Nov 06 19:06:27 <gkatsev> they should ingerate ClosureLibrary into it, lol
Nov 06 19:06:30 <lmorchard> Well, starting Mojo from an existing framework is fine, IMO, just they picked the wrong one :)
Nov 06 19:06:32 <datafirm_> lmorchard: exactly.. :)
Nov 06 19:06:35 <datafirm_> :-/
Nov 06 19:06:53 <Rick_work> lmorchard  dalmaer just twittered your work with weave
Nov 06 19:07:01 <datafirm_> like I said.. Class.create here I come! lol
Nov 06 19:07:17 <datafirm_> Rick_work: did you see my comment to you
Nov 06 19:07:17 <lmorchard> Yeah, got an email thread started with him and a couple of other Mozilla cow orkers
Nov 06 19:07:29 <datafirm_> Rick_work: Ext Core is not compatible with Mojo
Nov 06 19:07:49 <Rick_work> datafirm_ no,
Nov 06 19:07:51 <Rick_work> good to know
Nov 06 19:07:56 <lmorchard> If I can get Weave working acceptably on a webOS device, I can have my Firefox Awesome Bar :D
Nov 06 19:08:08 <Rick_work> If I had been picking a framework,  I would have picked yui.
Nov 06 19:08:17 <Rick_work> but I know how unpopular THAT idea would have been.
Nov 06 19:08:22 <datafirm_> Rick_work: i like yui too.. but Ext core is a bit cleamer
Nov 06 19:08:31 <sugardave> Class.create?  I like the durable object way
Nov 06 19:08:32 <lmorchard> YUI would have been nice too.  Have a few friends on that team to boot
Nov 06 19:08:34 <datafirm_> Rick_work: yui is well done and Ext follows it
Nov 06 19:09:01 <datafirm_> have anyof you tried yui for creating classes, evets etc in mojo
Nov 06 19:09:11 <Rick_work> no
Nov 06 19:09:19 <Rick_work> seems redudent to prototype once we HAVE prototype
Nov 06 19:09:23 <lmorchard> It might work, but really I think it's best to suck it up and just use the built-in prototype :/
Nov 06 19:09:25 <datafirm_> darn.. im tempted. but is it work abot 10 hours of my life.
Nov 06 19:09:30 <Rick_work> I have been experimenting with google closure tho
Nov 06 19:09:46 <datafirm_> s/work/worth
Nov 06 19:09:48 <Roy-Pre101> Rick_work: What do you think?
Nov 06 19:09:57 <Rick_work> It's amazing.
Nov 06 19:10:10 <lmorchard> Thinking of throwing that crypto crap I have through Closure and see what happens
Nov 06 19:10:13 <Templarian> Is it possible to create a webos app that includes none of the palm css files?
Nov 06 19:10:26 <Rick_work> but if jslint makes you cry, google closure will make you want to go hide in the corner and wimper quietly.
Nov 06 19:10:38 <Rick_work> Templarian  it is possible.
Nov 06 19:10:57 <Rick_work> you can not include framework.  :-)
Nov 06 19:10:58 <lmorchard> I think you can leave the palm CSS out of the HTML, but I think Mojo will pull some in on the fly
Nov 06 19:11:10 <Templarian> Oh didn't think about that.
Nov 06 19:11:22 <lmorchard> totally not sure about that though
Nov 06 19:11:22 <Rick_work> I tried it last night
Nov 06 19:11:38 <Rick_work> appended the entire framework into my app,  and then ran it all through closure.
Nov 06 19:11:38 <Roy-Pre101> Rick_work: So, what does it really do?
Nov 06 19:11:48 <lmorchard> though I was tempted to try building an app that doesn't use Mojo at all, just for giggles
Nov 06 19:12:02 <Templarian> lmorchard: I'm doing that right now.
Nov 06 19:12:04 * sugardave still hasn't punished himself with jslint.
Nov 06 19:12:05 <Rick_work> Roy remember Jay's discussion about an optimizing javascript to javascript compiler written in javascript?
Nov 06 19:12:09 <Roy-Pre101> Ye
Nov 06 19:12:10 <Roy-Pre101> p
Nov 06 19:12:13 <lmorchard> sugardave: The earlier you start, the better
Nov 06 19:12:17 <Rick_work> this is that.
Nov 06 19:12:25 <sugardave> okay
Nov 06 19:12:27 <sugardave> damn
Nov 06 19:12:52 <lmorchard> Heh... spam spam, sausage and spam. s/spam/javascript/
Nov 06 19:12:55 <sugardave> maybe I will run Mind Master through this weekend AND I bet I can get it conformant before my last update is approved
Nov 06 19:13:01 <Rick_work> it takes your javascript, cleans it up, promotes frequently called objects to the top, removes uncalled routines,
Nov 06 19:13:16 <Rick_work> but there are "tricks"
Nov 06 19:13:20 <lmorchard> That kind of stuff makes me happy there are still computer scientists around
Nov 06 19:13:32 <Templarian> lmorchard: I don't know why one would want to not use mojo, but I'm going to mess around and rewrite a similar framework, but XML based instead. hehe.
Nov 06 19:13:40 <Rick_work> but I ran some of my big js stuff through it, and it resulted in it running 2x to 3x faster.
Nov 06 19:13:58 <gkatsev> Rick_work: through, the ClosureCompiler thing?
Nov 06 19:14:12 <Rick_work> but to use their advanced system, you have to tell it explicitly what objects to not rename,   so that they can be called from outside
Nov 06 19:14:18 <lmorchard> Templarian: Eh, just because.  Though the number of wheels that would need reinventing would make it impractical
Nov 06 19:14:33 <Rick_work> and they force you to not use the global THIS.
Nov 06 19:14:39 <lmorchard> was tempted to see if an app in Dojo, with Mojo look-alike widgets, would be interesting
Nov 06 19:14:46 <Templarian> lmorchard: yea, that's true I'm just reinventing the wheels i need.
Nov 06 19:15:08 <lmorchard> but then I got distracted by a shiny video game and gave up.
Nov 06 19:15:51 <Rick_work> they want you to explicitly after creating an object  do  var self = this  and then use self instead of this.
Nov 06 19:16:21 <lmorchard> Huh, interesting.
Nov 06 19:16:44 <lmorchard> I tend to do that anyway, just to explicitly save myself from the magical morphing this
Nov 06 19:16:59 <lmorchard> (at least when using jQuery)
Nov 06 19:17:43 <Templarian> For those of you that have seen my framework, the way that i use "this" is quite funny.
Nov 06 19:20:26 <sugardave> stop confusing me....I like to think I have a beginning grasp on this
Nov 06 19:20:28 <Templarian> Rick_work: that worked... their framework must just add the CSS strait to the document.styleSheets
Nov 06 19:20:31 <sugardave> don't spoil my good times
Nov 06 19:21:39 <Templarian> sugardave: if you want to have fun like my framework does, you can make "this" a function. hehe.
Nov 06 19:21:50 <lmorchard> ...a function?
Nov 06 19:21:50 <sugardave> no thanks! :D
Nov 06 19:22:48 <Templarian> lmorchard: Yea, my framework rescopes this to a custom scope. Makes things like this("someid").text = "lol"; possible (including way more useful things).
Nov 06 19:23:09 * lmorchard throws a cog
Nov 06 19:23:47 <Templarian> http://webos.templarian.com/framework/xml/ lmorchard hehe.
Nov 06 19:26:59 <datafirm_> yay.. YUI works with the events system
Nov 06 19:42:00 <mikewx> anyone here involved with the "webos school" thing?
Nov 06 19:42:50 <Templarian> None that are on at the moment.
Nov 06 19:45:49 <Roy-Pre101> mikewx:  I can get a message to 'em.  What do you need?
Nov 06 19:46:07 <mikewx> i'm not sure, but i'm thinking admittance :)
Nov 06 19:46:29 <mikewx> i live in des moines, i didn't even know it was going on but i'd love to go through the crash course
Nov 06 19:49:30 <mikewx> be a shame to be stuck inside ona  beautiful 70F day in november, but i'll deal with it
Nov 06 19:49:36 <Roy-Pre101> Did you check out the code camp site?
Nov 06 19:49:42 <mikewx> yeah, registration closed
Nov 06 19:50:11 <Roy-Pre101> just heard back from Justin.  Your only option at this point is the webinar, it seems.
Nov 06 19:50:39 <mikewx> bummer
Nov 06 19:50:58 <mikewx> probably worth doing that, but so much less likely than meatspace
Nov 06 19:51:12 <mikewx> tnx for checking though
Nov 06 19:51:33 * mikewx looks down the list for anyone he knows who he can bribe to not go
Nov 06 19:57:06 <mikewx> ok, gave up registered for webinar
Nov 06 19:57:42 <webosschool-just> mikewx, are you having problems registering?
Nov 06 19:58:32 <Rick_work> webosschool-just registration closed for meatspace
Nov 06 19:58:41 <Rick_work> he's dissappointed.  can't you fit one more in?
Nov 06 19:59:02 <mikewx> webosschool-just: i live in dsm and just found out about it :)
Nov 06 19:59:36 <catalyst_media> Does anyone know if text-shadow will be supported soon?
Nov 06 19:59:43 <webosschool-just> ah... IowaCodeCamp only has capacity for 280
Nov 06 19:59:59 <webosschool-just> That was filled about a week or so ago...
Nov 06 20:00:16 <webosschool-just> You should still be able to register for the webinar https://www1.gotomeeting.com/register/807293593
Nov 06 20:00:23 <mikewx> yeah i just did that
Nov 06 20:00:34 <mikewx> but i was hoping for my yearly quota of social interaction as well :)
Nov 06 20:00:56 <webosschool-just> sorry man, I think there is a capacity limit at DMACC...
Nov 06 20:01:02 <mikewx> yeah probably
Nov 06 20:02:36 <Rick_work> webosschool-just  you weren't holding a spot open for me were you?  'cause I can't come.
Nov 06 20:03:03 <Rick_proxy> see!
Nov 06 20:04:06 <webosschool-just> Rick_work - no, you would of have to registered too
Nov 06 20:04:41 <Rick_work> so,  if dalmaer showed up, you wouldn't let him in?
Nov 06 20:06:16 <webosschool-just> Rick_work nope :)
Nov 06 20:06:23 <Rick_work> heheheheheh
Nov 06 20:06:25 <mikewx> they're strict like that, which really is a good thing
Nov 06 20:06:28 <Rick_work> and that's the right answer.
Nov 06 20:07:03 <mikewx> indeed
Nov 06 20:13:29 <sugardave> I just heard some guy from NJ say the word 'ethninticity'
Nov 06 20:13:33 <sugardave> my brain hurts now
Nov 06 20:15:46 <Roy-Pre101> sugardave: I got an election call where the woman said 'bigogatry' three times.
Nov 06 20:20:43 <sugardave> holy crap, I would have lost it...this is why I don't answer the phone
Nov 06 20:26:30 <pandora--> who was it here that was dealing with shoutcast stuff?
Nov 06 20:31:34 <Rick_work> Doc Lee  reality something
Nov 06 20:31:59 <Rick_work> he tends to get on late
Nov 06 20:32:48 <Rick_work> he's an immunity and virus vaccine specialist at Univ of Ga and the CDC  and he's been busy lately
Nov 06 20:38:23 <pandora--> Rick_work: ah right
Nov 06 20:38:49 <pandora--> well, any of you know of a shoutcast station that includes meta data about the track? :)
Nov 06 20:39:02 <JenP> hi all!
Nov 06 20:57:06 <Rick_work> JenP!!!
Nov 06 21:03:30 <JenP> Rick_work!!!!!
Nov 06 21:03:33 <JenP> HIYA!
Nov 06 21:09:08 <JustinHoMi> Is there a way to browse the app catalog without a Pre?
Nov 06 21:09:54 <sugardave> JustinHoMi: I don't think so
Nov 06 21:10:32 <sugardave> maybe if the app review team hadn't been vaporized, they could confirm that
Nov 06 21:10:58 <JustinHoMi> hmm. I guess I'll just go to a sprint store
Nov 06 21:11:26 <afresh1> JustinHoMi: http://www.palm.com/us/products/software/mobile-applications.html
Nov 06 21:11:39 <sugardave> yay, I was wrong!
Nov 06 21:11:46 <JustinHoMi> yeah, been there. Not all of the apps are listed
Nov 06 21:11:51 <JustinHoMi> definitely not 300+ on that page
Nov 06 21:12:12 <JustinHoMi> just a few featured apps, as far as I can tell
Nov 06 21:14:05 <afresh1> hmm.  I thought there was a complete list someplace.  I could be wrong
Nov 06 21:14:24 <JustinHoMi> I thought I heard there was too.
Nov 06 21:21:33 <Rick_work> JustinHoMi  email devrel@palm.com and ask that question.
Nov 06 21:21:51 <datafirm_> does prototypes Ajax request add the last param as _=''
Nov 06 21:22:28 <bmyers> sugardave: ?’maybe if the app review team hadn't been vaporized, they could confirm that’ ?
Nov 06 21:22:45 <Rick_work> yesterday we had app review folks in chat
Nov 06 21:23:03 <bmyers> and what happened?
Nov 06 21:23:11 <Rick_work> they're not here today
Nov 06 21:23:30 <Rick_work> bmyers  humor
Nov 06 21:23:32 <bmyers> oh. not like, acutally vaporized..
Nov 06 21:23:54 <bmyers> u know, all the big news on TV is houston or fla shootings.
Nov 06 21:24:05 * Rick_work makes note... bmyers somewhat sarcasm impared, exercise caution
Nov 06 21:24:17 <bmyers> thought they might have glassed over a californian vaporization
Nov 06 21:24:39 <JustinHoMi> Rick_work, thanks, I'll send them an email
Nov 06 21:25:02 <Rick_work> fthood guy broke first rule of movie bad guys.
Nov 06 21:25:09 <Rick_work> bad guys are supposed to be bad shots.
Nov 06 21:25:31 <Rick_work> fla gunman was, otoh, true to type.
Nov 06 21:27:27 <catalyst_media> Does anyone know if text-shadow will be supported soon in webOS?
Nov 06 21:29:27 <datafirm_> ones cant use #{} interpolation in scenes, only templates?
Nov 06 21:29:48 <datafirm_> one would need to select the element and innerHTML etc?
Nov 06 21:46:51 <lmorchard> datafirm: That's correct, you need to modify the dom
Nov 06 21:54:50 * datafirm_ the extra _ param that prototype is adding is odd.
Nov 06 21:55:15 * datafirm_ wont let requests go through to the server.
Nov 06 21:56:23 <sugardave> what is _?
Nov 06 21:59:08 <datafirm_> sugardave: like an extra paramter in the ajax calls
Nov 06 21:59:37 <lmorchard> It's for defeating the cache
Nov 06 21:59:50 <datafirm_> it wont let my facebook requests go through ;)
Nov 06 22:00:06 <datafirm_> but I found a way around it.. just use the postBody property
Nov 06 22:00:55 <datafirm_> anyone found a way to prevent the default of an href?  Its not working from a mojo-tap in the palm-list
Nov 06 22:01:13 <lmorchard> There was a way to turn off that _ parameter in prototype ajax, but I forget the param ugh
Nov 06 22:01:29 <datafirm_> lmorchard: oh really.. It was not in the docs?
Nov 06 22:02:15 <lmorchard> Hmm, can't find it now
Nov 06 22:12:41 <Taylor> Hey guys
Nov 06 22:12:58 <sugardave> hello
Nov 06 22:13:04 <Taylor> sup sugardave
Nov 06 22:13:18 <sugardave> trying to decide what to do
Nov 06 22:13:44 <Taylor> I was just wondering what you guys would think of a tablet OS based on webOS?
Nov 06 22:13:55 <Taylor> If it was how I am thinking it would be slick
Nov 06 22:14:05 <sugardave> you should talk to Templarian
Nov 06 22:14:22 <Taylor> why?
Nov 06 22:14:27 <sugardave> damn, I am good
Nov 06 22:14:33 <Taylor> i see
Nov 06 22:14:48 <sugardave> Templarian: what would you think of a tablet OS based on webOS?
Nov 06 22:14:59 <Taylor> it would be sweet
Nov 06 22:15:54 <Taylor> I could sketch it in photoshop, then post it.
Nov 06 22:16:08 <Taylor> if i could find a vector tablet
Nov 06 22:17:31 <Templarian> sugardave: no what webOS is made for... That's what Chrome OS is for.
Nov 06 22:17:36 <Templarian> not*
Nov 06 22:17:45 * Templarian playing vija games bbl
Nov 06 22:17:59 <sugardave> ttyl
Nov 06 22:18:15 <sugardave> I may do that, too....hmmm....options
Nov 06 22:19:06 <Taylor> sugardave: your leaving?
Nov 06 22:19:24 <sugardave> not immediately
Nov 06 22:19:41 <Taylor> ill try to make something sweet in photoshop
Nov 06 22:19:47 <Taylor> do you have a email?
Nov 06 22:20:19 <Taylor> whatever the equiv is of a DM here
Nov 06 22:20:43 <sugardave> Taylor: I'm not a graphics person :D  Tablets don't appeal much to me, but you can put it up on a photo host or something
Nov 06 22:21:18 <Taylor> i could do that. I mean a tablet or a normal pc.
Nov 06 22:21:38 <Taylor> I just said tablet so you could have gestures and things like that
Nov 06 22:47:04 <ElVox> how does everyone beta test their programs?
Nov 06 22:47:19 <Rick_work> alpha test by asking for volunteers on irc
Nov 06 22:47:39 <Rick_work> beta by either asking for cllosed beta volunteers on precentral or open beta by POSTING to precentral
Nov 06 22:48:24 <Taylor> indeed, im outta here
Nov 06 22:50:03 <Guest31257> is there a way to check if a device is a pixie?
Nov 06 22:50:24 <ElVox> cool thanks rick
Nov 06 22:59:19 <Rick_work> Guest31257  YES
Nov 06 22:59:22 <Rick_work> two ways.
Nov 06 22:59:31 <ni|> Rick_work:
Nov 06 22:59:38 <ni|> whoops please see webosinternals
Nov 06 23:00:10 <Guest31257> how?
Nov 06 23:03:36 <Rick_work> Guest31257 you can query the size of the viewport (480 or 400) or there is a call for mojo which returns the device details
Nov 06 23:05:23 <Rick_work> Guest31257  http://www.prototypejs.org/api/document/viewport
Nov 06 23:05:28 <Rick_work> is the simplest way
Nov 06 23:05:41 <Rick_work> document.viewport.getHeight() -> Number
Nov 06 23:05:54 <Rick_work> if it's 400, pixie  if it's 480 - pre
Nov 06 23:07:16 <Rick_work> Guest31257  ok?
Nov 06 23:08:01 <Guest31257> its returning 452
Nov 06 23:08:16 <Rick_work> ok   over 400 pre
Nov 06 23:08:36 <Rick_work> since a pixie has only 400 pixels
Nov 06 23:08:47 <Guest31257> do notifications affect the viewport?
Nov 06 23:09:02 <Rick_work> yep
Nov 06 23:09:15 <Guest31257> hmm
Nov 06 23:09:56 <Guest31257> so if i get a phone call while my app is opening its possible it will be less than 400?
Nov 06 23:11:19 <Guest31257> trying to test it...
Nov 06 23:15:50 <Rick_work> Guest31257   ok  well, there's the official way
Nov 06 23:15:53 <Rick_work> Mojo.Environment.DeviceInfo – it should give you something along the lines of this:
Nov 06 23:15:53 <Rick_work> { "modelName": "Pr?", "platformVersion": "1.0.2", "carrierName": "Sprint", "serialNumber": "Unknown", "screenWidth": 320, "screenHeight": 480, "minimumCardWidth": 320, "minimumCardHeight": 188, "maximumCardWidth": 320, "maximumCardHeight": 424, "keyboardAvailable": true, "keyboardSlider": true, "keyboardType": "QWERTY", "wifiAvailable": true, "bluetoothAvailable": true }
Nov 06 23:16:26 <Rick_work> that what you're looking for?
Nov 06 23:17:21 <Guest31257> yep that works, thanks
Nov 06 23:17:53 <Rick_work> Rick needs to post that to the wiki.
Nov 06 23:22:18 <Rick_work> now in the wiki  -- good now I can find it
Nov 06 23:39:13 <datafirm_> Im writing a widget that will allow you to interpolate #{} from the the Widget's element.  I just want to check there is no generic way to do this yet?
Nov 06 23:39:44 <kesne> Wow
Nov 06 23:39:51 <kesne> Perfect Bounce is doing good!!
Nov 06 23:41:31 <Adora> kesne: got any data on it you can share?
Nov 07 00:29:31 <reality9110> Jeez.  186285 ad requests today and only 31572 filled
Nov 07 00:30:51 <_droO> ?
Nov 07 00:31:08 <reality9110> Ad supported application...
Nov 07 00:31:20 <reality9110> Low fill rate
Nov 07 00:31:23 <_droO> oh
Nov 07 00:31:25 <_droO> sux :[
Nov 07 00:31:31 <reality9110> Yes
Nov 07 00:31:37 <_droO> admob?
Nov 07 00:31:38 <reality9110> I'm thinking about switching companies
Nov 07 00:31:40 <reality9110> Yes
Nov 07 00:31:42 <_droO> ya
Nov 07 00:31:44 <_droO> i would;o
Nov 07 00:31:56 <_droO> there are better ppc companies
Nov 07 00:32:00 <reality9110> I put in the request to adfonic today to see if they can handle my ad load.
Nov 07 00:32:23 <_droO> i have a different idea ;o
Nov 07 00:32:26 <reality9110> I have an app in the pipelines that should get around 1 million requests a day
Nov 07 00:32:28 <_droO> for aads in aps
Nov 07 00:32:37 <_droO> ads in apps*
Nov 07 00:32:38 <_droO> ;o
Nov 07 00:32:42 <reality9110> What's your idea?
Nov 07 00:35:43 <ElVox> instead of caring so much about the content the person is looking at, mobile advertising should be based almost completely on *where* they are when they requested the content
Nov 07 00:38:04 <Guest31257> is there a way to do an if statement inside of a list template?
Nov 07 00:38:28 <kesne> I don't like ads
Nov 07 00:40:05 <ElVox> on small screened device, it feels like you are giving up a lot more to ads...I think mobile ads feel more "expensive" to the user
Nov 07 00:40:06 <reality9110> kesne: If they are unobtrusive, then it's not a problem
Nov 07 00:42:25 <ElVox> nom-nom-nom...mmm..soup
Nov 07 00:44:59 <Sloloem> Guh, why does Prototype Ajax not have a timeout feature?
Nov 07 00:44:59 <kesne> meh
Nov 07 00:45:15 <_droO> sloloem
Nov 07 00:45:20 <_droO> i think u can set it in the header
Nov 07 00:45:22 <_droO> tho
Nov 07 00:45:38 <_droO> er nm;o
Nov 07 00:45:43 <_droO> thats not wha u meant
Nov 07 00:47:05 <ElVox> seems easy enough to add tho
Nov 07 01:10:22 <jghacker> @rwhitby - during palmcast tuesday, did you say the person to talk to about code for .wav from VoIP system was zcos?
Nov 07 01:16:41 <reality9110> Need code for wma and wmv
Nov 07 01:17:06 <Sloloem> ElVox, pretty easy to get the timeout to fire.  I still haven't quite figured out how to use anonymous functions in prototype as callbacks with proper scope.
Nov 07 01:24:04 <rwhitby> jghacker: zsoc
Nov 07 01:34:54 <ElVox> sloloem, isn't that what bind() is for?
Nov 07 01:34:58 <ElVox> http://www.prototypejs.org/api/function/bind
Nov 07 01:35:56 <Sloloem> Bind works great for named functions.  How do bind on anonymous one?  Some weird double closure?
Nov 07 01:36:58 <sugardave> function(){}.bind(this)
Nov 07 01:37:03 <sugardave> ?
Nov 07 01:39:42 <Sloloem> I don't remember that working the last time I tried...kinda moot in this case since this isn't a real callback from inside the object...
Nov 07 01:40:20 <Sloloem> ...Although, why is my ajax request timing out anyway?
Nov 07 01:41:24 <ElVox> (function() {}).bind(this);
Nov 07 01:41:50 <ElVox> actually sugardave's way works too
Nov 07 01:47:29 <reality9110> Anybody else want to hop on the beta tester bandwagon?
Nov 07 01:50:04 <bmyers> maybe
Nov 07 01:50:20 <bmyers> whatcha got Doc?
Nov 07 01:50:50 <bmyers> oh yeah. and how did that quote of yours work out? did you scare them away?
Nov 07 01:51:32 <reality9110> I scare a lot of people in any given day...which quote?
Nov 07 01:59:02 <Sloloem> Excellent, my application is done.  Well, everything's implemented and seems to be working for me anyway.
Nov 07 02:03:58 <bmyers> i’m at about 70-80 percent with my current project. at somepoint you have to shoot the programmer and ship the program...
Nov 07 02:12:56 <Sloloem> I should submit it to palm so they can have a good laugh and reject it.
Nov 07 02:13:26 <_droO> ? lol.. what is it?
Nov 07 02:23:02 <Sloloem> It's just a little thing that does a location lookup then screenscrapes thefuckingweather.com
Nov 07 02:23:42 <Sloloem> The site is too hard to read on such a small screen
Nov 07 02:35:19 <ElVox> wow, its weather the way mom used to tell it
Nov 07 02:35:37 <ElVox> <-- is from 'jersey
Nov 07 02:38:11 <reality9110> If you want to talk about weather, you should have seen Atlanta this year.
Nov 07 02:38:13 <Sloloem> Nice.  It's actually made by a guy who goes to the same college I graduated from.  It's pretty cold and pretty crass there.
Nov 07 02:38:37 <ElVox> reality9110, i don't like lake-front property
Nov 07 02:42:59 <bmyers> thefuckingweather.com... funny..
Nov 07 02:50:49 <Sloloem> It really helps me figure things out early in the morning when I'm not always fully aware.
Nov 07 02:54:46 <ElVox> most of the time, i wake up just *knowing* the answer to some coding problem that plagued me the night before. of course, it means most of productivity happens before my first cup of coffee...
Nov 07 02:56:32 <bmyers> life b4 coffee?
Nov 07 02:56:36 <bmyers> no way..
Nov 07 02:57:22 <_droO> any specific settings i need for transparent ico png?
Nov 07 02:58:06 <reality9110> Is photoshop a setting?
Nov 07 02:59:16 <bmyers> u took my answer..
Nov 07 02:59:34 <_droO> :\ well of course
Nov 07 02:59:41 <_droO> but png settings idk
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 07 02:59:57 2009