**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 23 02:59:56 2009 Nov 23 03:00:13 * haeffb_ has trouble figuring out why someone would DL a frontend for Toodledo if they don't know what Toodledo is. "Well, it's free...!" Nov 23 03:01:00 * ElVox learned to never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public Nov 23 03:04:05 guys, if they were all as smart as us, we wouldnt be programming.. Nov 23 03:07:30 haeffe, your program imports what you do on toodledo and puts it on you palm cal? Nov 23 03:09:43 it's mainly a way to send tasks to your toodledo account from pre. Nov 23 03:10:00 i.e. "Task Adder" - adds tasks to toodledo. Nov 23 03:10:28 it doesnt sync back the other way? Nov 23 03:10:45 doesn't sync Nov 23 03:11:01 it'll pull a list of tasks from Toodledo Nov 23 03:11:06 for viewing only Nov 23 03:11:47 http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/taskadder Nov 23 03:12:17 haeffb_ why not just put a toodledo account creation wizard in the app? Nov 23 03:12:45 you have to ask for the username and password anyway... so if they don't have one, do the account creation on the pre. Nov 23 03:18:17 Rick_work: good idea. Nov 23 03:19:02 seems reasonable Nov 23 03:21:26 of course, it still begs the question, "why get TaskAdder if you don't have an account?" Nov 23 03:21:57 I'm pretty sure you can do a view source on their signup and emulate their fields and do a form "put" with the data they need. Nov 23 03:24:03 it's easier than that - they have an API that uses HTTP GET to interact with their server. One of the API's is "createAccount" ;) Nov 23 03:24:31 if anybody wants to make a tasklist app that syncs with Toodledo: http://www.toodledo.com/info/api_doc.php Nov 23 03:25:40 * haeffb_ would do it, but I'm lazy. And it's not on my toodledo list. Nov 23 03:26:34 inconceivable! Nov 23 03:29:01 he keeps using that word...I do not thin' it means what he thin' it means... Nov 23 03:49:43 how do I tell a listWidget to completely redraw itself - i.e. changing dividerFunction and want to refresh the list to show new dividers? Nov 23 03:59:56 hi all! Nov 23 04:00:34 Jenp: hi Nov 23 04:00:46 hi haeffb! Nov 23 04:01:10 It's TQOS Nov 23 04:01:11 JenP: You'll be proud. Bought boots and bball shoes today. Nov 23 04:01:24 oh i am!... Nov 23 04:01:48 and my wife bought some kinda reebok "toner" shoes Nov 23 04:02:02 did you catch many ducks? on your trip Nov 23 04:02:12 no ducks. Nov 23 04:02:15 oh you'll have to tell me how she likes those Nov 23 04:02:17 quail and pheasant Nov 23 04:02:33 there's a girl at work who wears them and swears it's toning her butt up Nov 23 04:02:34 so far so good - she's planning to wear them for Black Friday shopping Nov 23 04:02:48 lol good for her Nov 23 04:02:53 I figure it'll keep the shopping to a minimum Nov 23 04:03:20 me too...i'm being good this year. Last year the girls cleaned me out Nov 23 04:06:54 I'm out. Have a good evening, everyone. Nov 23 04:09:50 anyone have sample code to display ajax info from the cloud? Nov 23 04:11:56 LoneStar34 what are you wanting to do? Nov 23 04:12:00 it's pretty stock Nov 23 04:12:17 if you just go to prototype's web site, their ajax samples work unmodified on webOS Nov 23 04:13:22 Rick_work I have some code that works, but for some reason it does not display data with one json result Nov 23 04:13:45 when you say "display" what is it you are doing? Nov 23 04:14:32 just trying to display ajax data on an html page Nov 23 04:31:53 Rick_work the SDK has a great example, but only display data if more than one json result is returned, why do you think that is? Nov 23 04:32:18 and again, I'm asking what you mean by "display" Nov 23 04:32:30 you get back an object, what are you doing to "display" that object? Nov 23 04:33:03 displaying data on a simple html card Nov 23 04:34:04 data show up in the clipboard but does not display on html Nov 23 04:40:21 ok Nov 23 04:40:33 I'm asking HOW you are trying to display the results you get. Nov 23 04:40:41 You have a variable containing the ajax result Nov 23 04:40:49 are you putting it into a div with innerHTML Nov 23 04:40:54 or are you updating an edit box? Nov 23 04:41:00 or are you doing an alert? Nov 23 04:41:03 or what? Nov 23 04:45:55 Rick_work: have uploaded code here http://buildasearch.com/mojo_ajax.txt Nov 23 04:53:47 hey Rick_work I have a question about form arrays when you're done with LoneStar34 Nov 23 04:57:25 LoneStar34 try clipboarding your actual updating of the listitems $A(r.response.results.ushort); Nov 23 04:58:11 since the list update isn't getting what you want Nov 23 04:58:18 I wonder if THAT is returning what you think it is..... Nov 23 04:58:41 if it was me, i would just innerHTML some div with that. Nov 23 04:58:59 * Rick_work hates form arrays JenP Nov 23 04:59:00 but I will try Nov 23 04:59:28 do you have a sample of using innerHTML in mojo? Nov 23 05:00:26 nothing special. Nov 23 05:00:47 make a div on your page ...
Nov 23 05:00:51 then in your code just do Nov 23 05:01:02 $('debug').innerHTML = something Nov 23 05:01:29 it's JUST html Nov 23 05:02:01 and MUCH simpler than messing with the clipboard..... Nov 23 05:02:19 Rick_work thanks will try it out Nov 23 05:02:32 you're just not getting the correct object Nov 23 05:02:44 now if your innerHTML comes out to just be Object, do this Nov 23 05:03:03 $('debug').innerHTML = Object.toJSON(thatobject); Nov 23 05:03:28 "debug" is the div id right? Nov 23 05:24:46 Rick_work: got it working with "$('searchBox').innerHTML = rc;" Nov 23 05:25:03 k Nov 23 05:25:14 and what did you learn.? Nov 23 05:26:00 innerHTL rocks Nov 23 05:26:10 innterHTML Nov 23 05:26:47 thanks! Nov 23 05:28:22 anybody over here maybe know about the carrier db changes in 1.3.1? Nov 23 05:29:04 anyone who saw the need for speed video Nov 23 05:29:09 read why it was a hoax: http://themxweb.com/2009/11/22/evidence-need-foor-speed-video-was-a-hoax/ Nov 23 05:31:48 Rick_work : I think i hate form arrays too Nov 23 05:40:54 bleah...all done. Nov 23 05:50:45 Rick_work I love MTiM Nov 23 05:50:49 very nice! Nov 23 05:52:04 is there a url for current webos apps that can be viewed in the emulator? Nov 23 05:59:39 no Nov 23 05:59:56 JenP is it hot or is it hot? Nov 23 06:00:07 it needs "pretty" but it's HOT. Nov 23 06:00:08 lol it's very cool! Nov 23 06:00:19 but i'm gonna have to play with it for awhile to figure out how it works Nov 23 06:00:40 it needs a lead you through the steps tutorial Nov 23 06:00:55 i can help with pretty! Nov 23 06:02:29 The plan is to have a link to a video tutorial hosted on the mtim web site. Nov 23 06:02:57 good idea...but i still like the idea of a first time set up Nov 23 06:03:20 most people...like myself...want it and want it now Nov 23 06:03:29 :-d Nov 23 06:03:32 did it not take you through setup? Nov 23 06:03:39 where you had to answer questions? Nov 23 06:04:55 no it opened to the list scene Nov 23 06:05:01 ahhh Nov 23 06:05:05 it _will_ open to setup Nov 23 06:05:13 you got the internal testing version Nov 23 06:05:16 oh well that will make a difference Nov 23 06:05:35 you should have josh make catagory icons for you Nov 23 06:05:55 push button to go to project... Nov 23 06:06:29 the last set of setup will over to let you watch the tutorial video Nov 23 06:06:54 Our FIRST issue is what order the menu items should be in.... Nov 23 06:06:58 we keep arguing Nov 23 06:07:06 lol Nov 23 06:07:33 well i work different then the way you have it layed out Nov 23 06:07:50 because the first thing i do is assign the task and build up from there Nov 23 06:08:45 when you hit start do you just see a spinner? Nov 23 06:09:03 will a get to see the time i've alreayd spent on the task? Nov 23 06:42:45 did the key combo change to do screenshots on the pre? Nov 23 06:42:50 (in 1.3.1) Nov 23 06:47:05 wasn't it [orange]+[shift]+p ? Nov 23 06:51:21 Rick_work: you here? Nov 23 06:51:32 sort of Nov 23 06:51:43 finishing app cat version of Dreidel Nov 23 06:56:49 can one of you guys help me confirm whether or not the screenshot feature still works on the pre? Nov 23 06:56:55 orange+shift+p Nov 23 06:57:17 it stopped working for me in 1.3.1, or, i have a broken key or something weird Nov 23 06:57:34 It works Nov 23 06:57:36 Er Nov 23 06:57:43 Orange sym p Nov 23 06:58:23 thx Nov 23 06:58:29 i guess i just forgot Nov 23 06:58:34 :P Nov 23 07:22:42 when you use regular expressions, do you have to do anything to 'clear' them out of memory? I have code that runs through and extracts links from text, but it only works every other time. the string only changes by a few characters at the end, and I am completely stumped Nov 23 07:22:56 s/code/looping code Nov 23 07:26:11 Pandora - Just an fyi - Orange Shft + P used to work and you got two screen captures, png and jpg but now you only get one Nov 23 07:26:24 And its only org sym and P :/ Nov 23 07:28:11 Not sure sugardave Nov 23 07:28:49 interesting, I took off the "global" flag and it works each time Nov 23 07:28:56 that's...odd Nov 23 07:29:08 oh well, time to go to sleep Nov 23 08:31:07 Hey is it possible to connect to the internet through my computer with the cable? Nov 23 08:31:16 (with palm pre) Nov 23 08:36:12 tethering Nov 23 08:36:23 oh, no, the opposide Nov 23 08:36:30 I don't know Nov 23 08:38:45 binarious Nov 23 08:38:51 binarious it is possible. Nov 23 08:38:59 go to Precentral and start searching for tether Nov 23 08:39:10 and good luck 131 made it "difficult" Nov 23 08:42:05 I dont want my computer to connect via palm pre, I want my palm pre to connect via my computer. Is it still possible with "My Tether"? Nov 23 08:43:20 should be feasible Nov 23 08:45:12 yay i finally can update to 1.3.1, the 1.1.3 was so boring Nov 23 08:46:06 grats Nov 23 08:47:15 me 2... that's why I wanna tether my palm. Don't want to download it over my O2 network :P. Nov 23 08:55:17 hehe Nov 23 09:10:16 hm cant find an tether app. someone can help me? Nov 23 09:30:30 Is it possible to download webOS 1.3.1 with my computer and install it to my palm? Nov 23 09:54:30 out of curiosity, why would you want to do that? Nov 23 09:56:11 binarious: nvm i read what you wrote earlier Nov 23 10:00:05 would be nice to have a download to update. I suggested he used the WebOS doctor to get the latest OS, but you would have to wipe the whole system out every time and download your palm data again each update Nov 23 10:02:01 I think and hope the next updates wont be as huge as now. Nov 23 10:03:02 Hrm. Seems that there's still no paid apps in 1.3.1.EU Nov 23 10:03:28 hate this localization :/ Nov 23 10:04:29 there it is. webOS 1.3.1 in 10 minutes :). Nov 23 10:04:56 Well, I can more understand the problem with paid apps in the EU version. Mind you, I'd also prefer that it just his my phone bill :) Nov 23 10:05:46 took a while between when it came out and the US paid apps were enabled Nov 23 10:19:54 how many apps is the practical limit multitasking on the Pre? Nov 23 10:24:27 Seems to be dependant on how large the applications running are. I've had 8 or so before. Nov 23 10:24:52 The actual limit seems to be resident memory size Nov 23 10:25:35 With android there is rooting scene , is there anything like with web os ? Nov 23 10:26:42 tarelerulz: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page Nov 23 10:26:53 So... yes :P Nov 23 10:27:50 Is there any real reason to ? like cool program Nov 23 10:29:19 Well, it's a little off topic for here I guess. Have a look at #webos-internals, or at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:webOS_Applications . You can also download patches, which modify how WebOS works. Nov 23 10:29:55 For got about internals Nov 23 10:31:05 It pretty cool I saw add for The Palm Pixi today Nov 23 11:15:47 is the pixi any better then the pre ? Nov 23 11:19:35 someone knows why the battery percent indicator appears in blue instead of green?? Nov 23 11:28:29 i think that patch makes it color coded Nov 23 12:17:25 hm... now it appears in green... very strange. havn't changed anything. Nov 23 14:39:07 morn'n folks Nov 23 14:47:47 mornin' Nov 23 14:52:09 I have a program that performs a long operation inside an event handler. I'd like it to be able to display a spinner during that time, but it seems like the screen doesn't update until the method finishes. Nov 23 14:53:17 any insight into either how to force an update, or create some asynchronous callback of my own? Nov 23 14:58:23 Anyone know where cookies are stored in a device when you call Mojo.Model.Cookie() Nov 23 14:58:24 ? Nov 23 15:01:26 CTL: search the irc log for that. it just came up not too long ago but i dont remember where that lives Nov 23 15:02:38 yeah I just pulled up the docs on it, looking now thatnks Nov 23 15:02:58 its actually stored in the db... so its pretty straight forward Nov 23 16:30:11 xalbo: Use setInterval Nov 23 16:48:48 hey guys Nov 23 16:50:41 i've read through some "how-to-develop-my-own-app" sheets and have a question, perhaps im to blind to find the answer Nov 23 16:51:25 an anyone tell my how the apps are encrypted and saved against decompiling-hacking-guys? Nov 23 16:56:19 they arent Nov 23 16:56:30 It is very easy to extract your app from the system Nov 23 16:57:13 It is possible Palm may introduce some sort of obfuscation/compiler/runtime system in teh future to help protect our code but right now its not Nov 23 16:57:54 what's wrong with that . Nov 23 16:57:59 ? Nov 23 16:58:08 However you are protected in that if you find someone is using your functions or an exact copy of your source maybe with different var names, you can bring up a lawsuit against the developer Nov 23 16:58:20 whats wrong with what? Nov 23 16:58:42 i'm not concerned about my code, i'm concerned about my api calls... Nov 23 16:59:11 Unfortunately right now there is nothing you can do but make the app run mostly server side which is a big effort Nov 23 16:59:49 warpdesign some developers dont support open development efforts and dont like others using or learning/benefiting from their code Nov 23 17:03:53 the yahoo widget guys got a great "encrypt" system Nov 23 17:03:59 damn Nov 23 17:05:21 no client side encryption system will actually work anyway Nov 23 17:05:42 a Javascript obfuscator might be enough for your purposes, though Nov 23 17:05:58 app encryption? Nov 23 17:09:15 * sugardave is doing server-side stuff at the moment. "Still completely unprotected, but harder to get at. Eventually I will look at the obfuscation stuff." Nov 23 17:11:30 it's Javascript and Linux, people are going to be able to reverse engineer what your application does if they really want to Nov 23 17:12:16 yep Nov 23 17:12:49 :-/ Nov 23 17:13:13 cainvommars: what are you so concerned about protecting? Nov 23 17:14:32 CTLAdvance-work: yes, right Nov 23 17:14:39 api calls, they are encrypted and the api ist not public Nov 23 17:15:10 so the whole encrypt magic thing had to happen in the app :) Nov 23 17:16:11 a web service API? Give the user a registration key and verify all requests against that key? Nov 23 17:19:40 spunds easy Nov 23 17:19:44 *sounds Nov 23 17:25:07 basically, you just need a native service that provides an encrypted store with a built-in native javascript engine (rhino/spidermonkey). the kernel of your apps (not interface stuff) would run on the encrypted javascript engine and use a fake ajax request response system to return data back to your app. the encryted store could even update its own code from your own webservers automagically Nov 23 17:27:13 ElVox: any client side encryption is doomed to fail Nov 23 17:35:40 So it is written: Trust not the client, for the client is in the hands of the enemy. Nov 23 17:39:21 i never said the keys had to be clientside :P Nov 23 17:39:54 im off, thanks guys Nov 23 17:43:25 chuqui: did you hear anything from the documentation people last week? Nov 23 17:43:46 no, I need to ping. Nov 23 17:48:27 Let me know how that goes. Nov 23 17:48:53 (The docs would be nice if they were a wiki, but meh) Nov 23 17:52:23 (me thinks docs are better the way they are, but meh) Nov 23 17:52:25 =] Nov 23 17:52:46 I've talked about docs in a wiki. I'd like to get the docs more community-enabled. Nov 23 17:53:30 aren't most of the docs just comments run through jsdoc? should be easy to put them into our own wiki (like webos101?) Nov 23 17:54:00 Would you offer an official doc package, something not edited by the community? Nov 23 17:54:03 maybe in PDF form Nov 23 17:54:15 then a wiki would be great Nov 23 17:54:52 that should come with the SDK...heck it could be as simple as making a script to run jsdoc like a "palm-document" command Nov 23 17:56:33 Chuq - does Palm have an official way to extract the complete documentation? Nov 23 18:00:36 CTLAdvance-work you could grab the source for framework and run your own copy of JSDoc. Nov 23 18:00:42 or you could spider the web site. Nov 23 18:00:59 Which would help because then you can kill the dark unreadable backgrounds Nov 23 18:11:16 Guys when I said docs, I meant that the JSdocs do not match the hand written versions on the site. Nov 23 18:12:04 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1748 I was using this as an example. It hasn't been updated in a while now to match the current SDK. Nov 23 18:21:33 hello Nov 23 18:22:02 I guess this is a developer channel, but I'm looking to get some help unbricking the Pre I bought today. Nov 23 18:22:10 jml Nov 23 18:22:13 we're here for you. Nov 23 18:22:21 that makes me happy :) Nov 23 18:22:47 what's wrong. (and you can't brick a pre They're aways recoverable.) Nov 23 18:23:34 the Palm has a big black screen saying go to palm.com/ROM. I've gone there, got the web doctor, installed it and started to go through the wizard Nov 23 18:23:58 however, when I get to the page that asks me to plug my palm in, I plug the palm in, and nothing happens. The "Next" button is still greyed out. Nov 23 18:24:32 Java 6, Ubuntu Linux 9.10. Nov 23 18:24:59 64 bit linux? Nov 23 18:25:10 Rick_work, yes. Nov 23 18:25:20 that is your problem Nov 23 18:25:27 the doctor does not contain a 64 bit novacom driver. Nov 23 18:25:56 I see. Nov 23 18:26:33 Rick_work, what then should I do? Nov 23 18:26:54 wait one (unless chuqi jumps in ) Nov 23 18:27:52 Install ia32-libs (on 64-bit systems only) Nov 23 18:27:52 If you are installing on a 64-bit system, perform the following additional step before installation: Nov 23 18:27:52 sudo apt-get install ia32-libs Nov 23 18:27:52 If you happen to have installed palm-novacom before installing ia32-libs, then you must restart palm-novacom: Nov 23 18:27:52 sudo stop palm-novacom Nov 23 18:27:52 sudo start palm-novacom Nov 23 18:28:50 hmm. I already have ia32-libs installed Nov 23 18:29:02 hmmm Nov 23 18:29:08 have you installed the sdk? Nov 23 18:29:13 no, I haven't Nov 23 18:29:27 I would try that next. Nov 23 18:29:35 What is the problem with the Pre that you are doctoring it? Nov 23 18:30:26 It's going to a developer not in a carrier area. Nov 23 18:30:35 which would be no problem if we had a @#$@#$%@# developer phone. Nov 23 18:30:47 wrong window chuqi Nov 23 18:31:01 ah. oops. Nov 23 18:31:05 It has a big black screen with a warning icon and www.palm.com/ROM on it. I got that screen while upgrading to webOS 1.3.1 Nov 23 18:31:26 ahhhh Nov 23 18:31:27 ok Nov 23 18:31:34 Your doctor may be ok. Nov 23 18:31:41 let's try this. Nov 23 18:31:45 unplug the pre. Nov 23 18:31:49 open the back Nov 23 18:31:55 Pull the battery. Nov 23 18:32:15 Now, on your ubuntu machine go through the doctor up to the point where it tells you to plug the phone in. Nov 23 18:32:20 then get back to me. Nov 23 18:33:02 Done. Nov 23 18:33:26 Chuq is that the phone going to Jason? Nov 23 18:33:57 ok, now, HOLD THE VOLUME BUTTON UP, and do not let go of it. while holding the volume button up, plug the pre into the computer AAND DO NOT LET GO OF THE VOLUME BUTTON and then put the battery in. Nov 23 18:34:17 then you can let go Nov 23 18:34:28 the screen should show a giant battery with a question mark Nov 23 18:34:36 then transition to a giant USB symbol Nov 23 18:34:41 then transition to a rom with an arrow Nov 23 18:35:12 it's still on the giant USB symbol Nov 23 18:35:16 it could be. Not sure who Nov 23 18:35:48 chuqi is there any way for us to find out who in Palm is the stumbling block for creating a developer phone program? Nov 23 18:35:55 We know people who break legs...... Nov 23 18:36:11 order from germany... ? =) Nov 23 18:36:22 jml and it's plugged in, and the Doctor is saying to plug in the phone now? Nov 23 18:36:52 Rick_work, yes. Nov 23 18:37:10 jml -- well crud puppies. Nov 23 18:37:14 Rick_work, I'll try again, according to your instructions, just in case I screwed up. Nov 23 18:37:42 probably won't hel jml Nov 23 18:37:48 the problem is the novacom drivers Nov 23 18:37:58 no, I don't know who to aim anyone at; I know Ben is working the issue as fast as he can. Nov 23 18:38:05 try installing the SDK using the 64 bit instructions. Nov 23 18:38:24 especially that last bit that says Nov 23 18:38:24 sudo dpkg -i --force-architecture palm-novacom_1.0.46_i386.deb Nov 23 18:41:44 ok. I'm downloading things now. Nov 23 18:42:04 sorry jml Nov 23 18:42:12 once I get this fixed, is there any way of determining what caused this to happen in the first place? Nov 23 18:42:43 probably not, since the doctor does a format Nov 23 18:43:07 chances are that you got a corrupt download of the update. Nov 23 18:43:08 that's unfortunate. Nov 23 18:43:09 what carrier are you on? Nov 23 18:43:15 O2 Nov 23 18:43:25 ok Nov 23 18:43:40 we have little experiance with british updates yet. Nov 23 18:44:11 that makes two of us :) Nov 23 18:45:26 I'm not clear on what the carrier would have to do with a corrupt download. I was connected to my home wifi network at the time. Nov 23 18:45:45 but since I have no idea how any of this works, I may be making a raft of unjustified assumptions Nov 23 18:46:59 no, it's the difference in the OS that I was refering to. Nov 23 18:47:21 ahh right. Nov 23 18:47:52 so, once this gets back up, should I try upgrading again? Nov 23 18:48:11 yes Nov 23 18:48:12 actually you won't need to Nov 23 18:48:20 the doctor, will put you to 131 Nov 23 18:48:53 cool. Nov 23 18:51:18 running 64 bit Linux is really an excellent way to have a lot of not-quite working proprietary software. Nov 23 18:51:38 it sure is. Nov 23 18:51:45 that's what 32bit chroots are for. Nov 23 18:51:55 haha, yeah. Nov 23 18:52:06 I should set something up, I guess. Nov 23 18:52:34 i had to do that for a long time for 'zilla Nov 23 18:52:39 til the flash 64 bit player was stable. Nov 23 18:52:57 (or get around to buying a second machine that doesn't need quite so much RAM -- something for gaming, perhaps) Nov 23 18:55:10 when I installed the palm-novacom package, I got this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/326303/ Nov 23 18:57:08 ahh, but if I run novacomd manually, I then get the "Next" button. Yay. Nov 23 19:00:40 yay Nov 23 19:04:08 maybe this was all a clever and evil ploy to get me set up with an SDK and the webOS developer community Nov 23 19:07:36 you say that like it's a bad thing! Nov 23 19:08:53 chuqui, the end justifies the means? Nov 23 19:09:21 at least the only data the phone had was my choice of language and wifi preferences. Nov 23 19:09:32 sometimes it actually does. there are few absolutes in life. Nov 23 19:09:47 true that. Nov 23 19:14:19 now I'm looking at the palm logo, pulsing with light. Nov 23 19:15:02 yay Nov 23 19:15:13 yippee skippy Nov 23 19:15:20 and 20 minutes from now, you'll have a phone again Nov 23 19:15:24 :-) Nov 23 19:16:35 heh Nov 23 19:17:37 you know, we are probably going to have Ubuntu booting in under 10s on an SSD netbook by April. Nov 23 19:18:08 which is embarrassing, since the webapp I work on has some pages that takes that long to load :\ Nov 23 19:21:28 lol Nov 23 19:21:29 ouch Nov 23 19:33:48 Rick_work, thanks for your help Nov 23 19:34:03 happy to be of service. Nov 23 19:34:15 Now if you're a web dev, write some webOS stuff. You have the SDK after all Nov 23 19:34:42 http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/dreidel Nov 23 19:34:58 Let's get some reviews going people. Nov 23 19:35:32 Chuqi, http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/dreidel -- sitting in the app queue at palm. Hanukkah starts Dec 11, please pretty please let that get reviewed before then???? Nov 23 19:39:33 rick: sent ping Nov 23 19:40:46 Rick_work: man my fiancee would love that Nov 23 19:43:05 success Nov 23 19:43:38 * pandora-- is going to impress the fiancees family at hanukkah with this Nov 23 19:43:40 mwahahah Nov 23 19:45:08 hi Nov 23 19:45:38 Rick_work: hahhaahh love the music :D Nov 23 19:47:27 Any Palm Employee here? I have a short *question* Nov 23 19:49:26 * CTLAdvance-work eats sandwich Nov 23 19:49:51 Hernlebuh_: may as well just ask the question Nov 23 19:50:05 CTLAdvance-work: thats a great idea Nov 23 19:52:24 Hm I have a question the palm if they have received my e-mail (submit app)... Nov 23 19:52:49 ah Nov 23 19:52:56 Hernlebuh_: mine took 4 weeks to get a reply Nov 23 19:52:59 If a very great app with a lot of official band contents...... music.. Nov 23 19:53:02 but they got it Nov 23 19:53:20 how long ago did you submit? Nov 23 19:53:25 öhm...?! I've not received a answer :-( Nov 23 19:53:33 approx 2 weeks Nov 23 19:53:45 keep waiting :) Nov 23 19:53:58 hm Nov 23 19:54:05 i sent mine, and 3 followup emails, the first reply i got was at the 4 week mark Nov 23 19:54:09 a week later it was published Nov 23 19:54:23 * CTLAdvance-work chinese food or salsbury steak and garlic mashed? Nov 23 19:54:31 but it would be nice if i could talk to an palm employee.... Nov 23 19:54:32 hm yes Nov 23 19:54:43 want to be in the program soooon :-D Nov 23 19:54:51 CTLAdvance-work: steak and garlic mash. hands down. Nov 23 19:55:14 * CTLAdvance-work taking advice and heating up the steak and garlic mashed... Nov 23 19:55:34 well, pandora, your app was submited..? Nov 23 19:55:43 yeah Nov 23 19:55:48 app name? Nov 23 19:55:58 iBored Nov 23 19:56:02 ah key Nov 23 19:56:10 iboared Nov 23 19:56:19 gkatsev: tusks and everything? Nov 23 19:56:21 :P Nov 23 19:56:22 and.. is it possible to life from publish apps? Nov 23 19:56:28 or is it for freeß Nov 23 19:56:32 Hernlebuh_: what do you mean? Nov 23 19:56:49 Hernlebuh_: you mean can you charge for the applications? yes Nov 23 19:56:55 yeah Nov 23 19:56:59 charge good..? Nov 23 19:57:08 you can charge whatever you want, or free Nov 23 19:57:14 Hernlebuh have you used the submission console Nov 23 19:57:20 they arent doing submissions via email Nov 23 19:57:30 no via mail Nov 23 19:57:34 console?? Nov 23 19:57:54 CTLAdvance-work: only if your account is approved Nov 23 19:57:59 otherwise it's still via email Nov 23 19:58:02 if send it via email Nov 23 19:58:12 your first app has to be from email Nov 23 19:58:17 i don't know... but... what about a submission console..??? Nov 23 19:58:20 after that you'll be provisioned to use the console Nov 23 19:58:21 ah ok Nov 23 19:58:22 the initial setup is via email. Once you're in the system, it's via the portal Nov 23 19:58:31 oh Nov 23 19:58:34 i want to be in^^ Nov 23 19:58:40 what he said :) Nov 23 19:58:46 what's the name of your app? Nov 23 19:58:54 MetalFan Nov 23 19:58:57 it's a cool app Nov 23 19:59:04 with a lot of official band contents Nov 23 19:59:08 ...music.. Nov 23 19:59:19 yeah, much easier now that i have the console. i submitted another app last night at 2 in the morning. hehe Nov 23 19:59:27 cool Nov 23 19:59:29 Simon? Nov 23 19:59:35 yeah! Nov 23 19:59:39 I'm simon Nov 23 19:59:42 pfundstein Nov 23 19:59:50 Hernlebuh_: i'll gladly take MetalFan on my Pre Nov 23 19:59:53 we have it. It's in the queue of one of the account managers. Nov 23 19:59:54 * pandora-- is a metal fan Nov 23 20:00:04 they're getting to them as fast as they can. Nov 23 20:00:10 ..in my e-mail if a typo xD Nov 23 20:00:21 it means loud and not load :-P Nov 23 20:00:26 pandora Nov 23 20:00:30 yes metal is cool Nov 23 20:00:48 and my app show's a loooooooooooooot of band Nov 23 20:00:48 *bands Nov 23 20:01:05 and a lot of bands gave me the permission to use official content ;-) Nov 23 20:01:07 great Nov 23 20:01:13 very cool Nov 23 20:01:16 yeah Nov 23 20:01:36 What's your fav band? Nov 23 20:01:43 Hernlebuh_: all deutchland? or other stuff? Nov 23 20:01:57 germany^^ Nov 23 20:02:09 cool Nov 23 20:02:11 jaaaah..but want to live in the U.S.^^ Nov 23 20:02:18 sweden has had some great metal in the past few years Nov 23 20:02:27 joaw Nov 23 20:02:30 big fan of soilwork from there Nov 23 20:02:37 and your favorit bands Nov 23 20:02:39 ah ok Nov 23 20:02:45 don't know this band Nov 23 20:03:05 hmm... fear factory, lamb of god, soilwork, as i lay dying Nov 23 20:03:06 chuqui: Ok. Ehm, I hope palm will add me to the program ;-) Nov 23 20:03:11 those are a few top picks Nov 23 20:03:27 Hey all. Nov 23 20:03:42 today none of this bands are in, but my app is growing every day and I'll add this bands (soon)!! Nov 23 20:04:03 I am trying to update the description in the app catalog of one of my apps. Does anyone know if you can use html? I just want paragraph breaks. Nov 23 20:04:05 i'll settle for some rammstein :) Nov 23 20:04:54 Today... Iced Earth, Balze, Finntroll, Crystal Eyes, Cage, Catamenia, Sodom etc etc etc (Don't want to say toooo much^^) Nov 23 20:05:00 *Blaze Bayley Nov 23 20:06:48 pandora: If you want you can send me an e-mail with a list of bands that you whis to see in my app :-D Nov 23 20:07:15 pandora--: apparently, they released a new album last month. i totally missed it. Nov 23 20:07:25 gkatsev: who did? Nov 23 20:07:29 rammstein Nov 23 20:07:35 ah, yeah Nov 23 20:07:49 you should look up their video from the album Nov 23 20:07:50 heh. Nov 23 20:07:57 definitely NSFW. Nov 23 20:07:59 lol, perhaps when im at home Nov 23 20:08:01 so not linking it here Nov 23 20:08:10 lyht: I don't know of any way to force a paragraph break. Nov 23 20:08:15 lyht: Let us know if you find one Nov 23 20:08:22 yeah, the only band that could get away with naming their single that way, lol Nov 23 20:08:23 :) Nov 23 20:08:53 hehe Nov 23 20:09:10 man. the video for that single is the most X-rated music video i've seen Nov 23 20:09:18 and the album cover is rediculous Nov 23 20:09:32 my fav bads are iced earth, manowar and iron maiden. Nov 23 20:09:38 *bands Nov 23 20:11:02 will webos doctor charge the pre to 100% before it begins the process? Nov 23 20:11:19 thebitguru: no Nov 23 20:11:57 my batter was around 70% when I started and it says "Battery Charging", just curious how long that will go Nov 23 20:12:44 thebitguru: depends on the charger..usb from PC will take considerably longer Nov 23 20:12:46 oh, it shouldnt take long. for me, it was always fine with not fully charge battery. Nov 23 20:13:43 lunch. back later.. Nov 23 20:13:56 bye ;-) Nov 23 20:14:29 sugardave: yeah, I am wondering how much it expects before it begins because I can just plug it in the wall charger if it is a lot Nov 23 20:14:42 70% ought to be fine? Nov 23 20:20:40 i believe it just wants more than 20% Nov 23 20:21:29 I think its 30 actually but it makes you wait and chargethe device regardless for a few minutes Nov 23 20:23:52 yeah, when i had it at 70% it was like, waiting to charge device, 5 seconds later, done, and then it starts doing its stuff Nov 23 20:24:17 how do i ssh into the emulator? cant find the guide anymore Nov 23 20:24:59 localhost:5522 or something like that Nov 23 20:26:15 lol Nov 23 20:26:35 is there a command that goes before it? Nov 23 20:27:17 ssh localhost -p 5522 Nov 23 20:27:25 i think thats the port Nov 23 20:28:10 forgot i had to use putty... Nov 23 20:28:25 it worked thanks Nov 23 20:28:33 lol, great Nov 23 20:28:41 he boys Nov 23 20:28:51 iam going on to sleep now xD Nov 23 20:29:01 so good night 'n' bye Nov 23 20:29:03 lol, what time is it for you? Nov 23 20:29:41 GMT+2 there in germany? Nov 23 20:29:49 jou Nov 23 20:29:52 yes Nov 23 20:29:52 ah, ok, lol Nov 23 20:30:08 and i've to do a lot of things tomarrow Nov 23 20:30:11 so.. Nov 23 20:30:12 yeah, i need to stop staying up so late... Nov 23 20:30:19 ^^ Nov 23 20:30:28 for me just this ONE day^^ :-D ha^^ Nov 23 20:30:32 night, Hernlebuh_ Nov 23 20:30:41 thx ;-) Nov 23 20:30:44 bye all Nov 23 20:35:33 my pre has crashed 3 times already this morning Nov 23 20:35:36 daaaaaaaaaamnit Nov 23 20:35:57 and it takes like 7 minutes to boot this thing Nov 23 20:38:29 * CTLAdvance-work wonders what pandora is doing to their pre Nov 23 20:39:31 has anyone done the smartreflex or cpu scaling patches through Preware? Nov 23 20:43:38 natenrb9: i havent but would like to try it. you go first :) Nov 23 20:44:12 ha! Nov 23 20:44:21 my buddy told me the same thing Nov 23 20:44:37 i double dog dare you! Nov 23 20:49:20 read the warning on them. Nov 23 20:49:25 Then read it again. Nov 23 20:49:44 the think HARD that the guy who is the lead kernel developer for the Pre doesn't use them. Nov 23 20:50:00 Then, heck, go ahead and install 'em. Let us know how that works out for you. Nov 23 20:50:13 :) Nov 23 20:52:43 if you send me your Pre, I will do it for you Nov 23 20:53:38 so now one on here that has applied one of them? Nov 23 20:54:34 webos should integrate this: http://raphaeljs.com/ Nov 23 20:54:55 Rick_work: who is the lead kernel developer? Nov 23 20:55:34 that you are referring to Nov 23 20:56:18 natenrb9 http://tkgeisel.com Nov 23 20:58:30 I have they seem to be working fine.. . Nov 23 20:58:38 :D You should do it to Nov 23 21:01:45 Rick_work: looks like our hardware patch disclaimer is having the desired effect ;-) Nov 23 21:02:12 CTLAdvance-work: which one did you install? cpuscaling or smartreflex Nov 23 21:02:28 I was joking nate =] Nov 23 21:02:33 lol Nov 23 21:02:38 I have no need to drop 100 on a replacement pre Nov 23 21:02:45 misc-battery-explode.patch? Nov 23 21:02:52 I am still on my first one since june =D Nov 23 21:03:41 moi, aussi Nov 23 21:04:34 Sadly something is freaking out on my phone all of a sudden Nov 23 21:04:36 Time for a date with the doctor... Nov 23 21:05:05 Dont butt update your device with patches installed Nov 23 21:05:12 might as well install the cpuscaling or the smartreflex patch first ;) Nov 23 21:05:30 nic etry :P Nov 23 21:05:31 since your are wiping anyway Nov 23 22:01:47 QQ Anyone know how to disable scrolling or stop the page from trying to scroll down when there isnt anything there Nov 23 22:03:59 CTLAdvance-work: you mean, you want it to scroll but not leave acres of empty space at the bottom? or just not scroll at all? Nov 23 22:04:23 the latter is pushScene({name: "mySceneName", disableSceneScroller: true}) Nov 23 22:04:53 the former is, don't use "position: relative;" in your CSS, as far as I can tell. Nov 23 22:05:09 not scroll at all Nov 23 22:05:12 Thanks Nov 23 22:05:30 np Nov 23 22:07:02 Worked great! Thanks Nov 23 22:14:13 has anyone messed around with the Data SDK? for example the "ajaxGet"? Nov 23 22:15:11 I haven't really looked at the example code, but I am doing new Ajax.Request in one of my apps. Nov 23 22:16:49 I am trying to get a stage to display when the app is opened, but all I see is a grey screen Nov 23 22:17:23 LoneStar34: Data SDK? Nov 23 22:17:33 Hmmm... could be anything. Check for errors? Did you do a palm-log? Nov 23 22:18:54 lyht: what is the proper call to open a stage or html file? Nov 23 22:20:39 createStageWithCallback( etc...) is the way I have always done it. Nov 23 22:21:24 Which then pushes a specific scene. But I have not tried to do just any old html file or url. Nov 23 22:36:53 lyht: in the following what does "lightWeight" refer to? "this.stageController = this.appController.getStageController('lightWeight');" Nov 23 22:39:04 LoneStar34, that "lightWeight" should be the stage name. The example code must have created a stage called "lightWeight" Nov 23 22:40:40 lyht: that is what I thought, but could not find a "lightWeight" scene Nov 23 22:42:38 LoneStar34, there wouldn't be a scene called that, but a stage. Look for stageArguments = { name: "lightWeight", lightweight: true }; Nov 23 22:42:41 or something. Nov 23 22:43:49 lyht: "this.appController.createStageWithCallback({name: 'lightWeight', lightweight: true}, this.pushTheScene.bind(this));" Nov 23 22:44:11 That's it. Nov 23 22:44:18 so stage is the window and scene is the content in the stage?? Nov 23 22:46:59 yah... sorta. They also call stages cards. So a card comes up, and different scenes (or blocks of content) can be pushed onto the stage. However, you have to not just think of a scene as content, but as an interface, and controllers, and feedback, and everything. Nov 23 22:47:57 But if you do a pushScene, on a stage that has a scene already, (say you pushed a "help" scene on top of a "first" scene), the first scene is still back there. Nov 23 22:48:29 oh ok Nov 23 22:49:08 trying to push out an app sometime this week, but still have to lots to do, as you can tell Nov 23 22:49:45 :) good luck. Pushing to homebrew or official catalog? Nov 23 22:51:50 official catalog Nov 23 22:52:45 it will be an early version, work in progress... Nov 23 22:53:38 nice. Nov 23 22:56:25 lyht: how about yourself? you releasing some apps? Nov 23 22:57:36 "Super Sudoku Demo" and "Switcharoo Demo" are both out there. Working to try to get the full apps released... Everything takes longer than it anticipated. :) Nov 23 22:58:45 lyht: yeah, forsure took me like two weeks to figure out some simple stuff... Nov 23 23:00:24 Yup, and then once it is submitted, then you have to wait for the review process... And hope there is nothing that needs to be changed. Nov 23 23:01:18 yeah, exactly, how do you access the app store from the emulator? Nov 23 23:01:33 you dont. Nov 23 23:01:39 They have disabled it. Nov 23 23:01:52 There might be a hack, but I am not aware of it. Nov 23 23:01:58 oh ok Nov 23 23:03:02 incidentist: sample SDK "networkData/ajaxGet" example Nov 23 23:03:30 lyht: you mentioned something about a debugger? Nov 23 23:03:35 how do I enable that? Nov 23 23:03:44 using eclipse Nov 23 23:05:24 I have not tried to get that working yet... but the one tool you should definately use is the command line log view tool. From a command prompt on your computer type "palm-log com.something.app.appname -f" for your app id (without the quotes of course) Nov 23 23:05:48 and it will display all the messages coomming out of your app, including any exceptions. Nov 23 23:06:22 If you have the latest version of the sdk, it will even give you the line number and file of the offending code. Nov 23 23:11:09 lyht: where do I find the "com.something.app..." info for my app? Nov 23 23:11:30 it is the id value in appinfo.json Nov 23 23:16:57 lyht: ok got it working, how do I know what info to write in the "id"? Nov 23 23:18:11 whatever you want. The standard is reverse domain name. So if you had a business you were releasing these under, say orbsix, and a domain name of orbsix.com, you could say com.orbsix.app.blahblah Nov 23 23:18:35 oh ok thanks Nov 23 23:18:36 some people dont put the word "app" in there, but palm does, and I like it. Nov 23 23:19:21 but it doesn't even have to relate to an actual domain name. You could just use name.lyht.myapp Nov 23 23:19:48 the only requirement is that the string is unline any other name that has been released on the OS Nov 23 23:20:02 "unlike" Nov 23 23:20:06 ok Nov 23 23:20:09 thanks Nov 23 23:20:10 unline=unlike Nov 23 23:20:16 changed the name Nov 23 23:20:18 or id Nov 23 23:40:47 Can you two make sure there's something about working with stages on webos101.com? Nov 23 23:40:54 (lyht and LoneStar34) Nov 23 23:41:36 Roy-Pre101, I'll see what I can do. Nov 23 23:41:48 Thanks! Nov 23 23:42:45 Roy-Pre101: once I get my app ready for submission, I will write something regarding: clipboard, ajax-get and, stages Nov 23 23:43:01 Nice Nov 23 23:43:26 yeah, just do not want to write about a half working - stuff Nov 23 23:46:30 hi Nov 23 23:47:49 hello Nov 23 23:48:15 howdy Nov 23 23:48:26 i try to install homebrew apps for my pre on a opensuse 11.2, but i have have problems installing novacom. it is only available as .deb. i tried to install alien, but tht does not work Nov 23 23:48:33 is there a rpm around? Nov 23 23:51:04 I dont know if there are any linux experts here. Nov 23 23:52:16 I think #webos-internals might be a place to also check. Nov 23 23:52:17 anyone tried the emulator with vbox 3.0.12? any problems? Nov 23 23:52:47 those guys tend to be a bit more hard-core in getting stuff working with other oses. Nov 23 23:52:58 lyht: ty Nov 23 23:56:00 emulator in VBOx works without any issues Nov 23 23:57:03 running VBox 3.0.10r54097 Nov 23 23:57:45 incidentist: I'm not having problems with 3.0.12 Nov 23 23:58:20 LoneStar34: i tried to install webOS quickinstall in my W7 VM (virtualbox 3.0.6) but I can't get any connect to my phone Nov 23 23:58:39 I have no more space left for an ubuntu :( Nov 24 00:01:33 g'day Nov 24 00:03:00 sui: have u tried upgrading or reinstalling java? Nov 24 00:03:49 LoneStar34: ii had to install java for the first time in this vm. Nov 24 00:05:45 oh - so you have no internet access via the emulator? Nov 24 00:07:33 how can you hide command menu buttons individually? Nov 24 00:07:37 i tried defining an empty commandMenu model, and then redefining them when I want menu items to appear, but nothing is happening Nov 24 00:08:00 and i'm updating my command menu model w/ a this.controller.modelChanged(this.cmdMenuModel); Nov 24 00:08:35 even modifying the visible attribute on the model doesn't change anything on GUI Nov 24 00:08:54 but modify the buttons disabled state does show something Nov 24 00:08:55 It can only update the model if you don't change the model to a new one Nov 24 00:09:03 LoneStar34: mom, i'll check that Nov 24 00:09:15 cmdMenuModel has to be the same model you used when you created it. Nov 24 00:09:45 when why would it be that when i just modify the visible attribute, nothing changes Nov 24 00:10:37 this.cmdMenuModel.visible = true; this.controller.modelChanged(this.cmdMenuModel); doesnt do anything for example Nov 24 00:24:51 hi all! Nov 24 00:25:00 Ello' JenP! Nov 24 00:25:11 hey kesne how ya doing? Nov 24 00:25:26 JenP: Pretty good Dawg Nov 24 00:26:22 lol Nov 24 00:29:55 Interview with Rod Whitby of WebOS Internals: http://pre101.com/blog/2009/11/23/interview-with-webos-internals-rod-whitby/ Nov 24 00:30:12 m55: No idea. Nov 24 00:30:17 I haven't worked with them. Nov 24 00:30:41 When you find out, post it up to webos101.com! :) Nov 24 00:35:47 Oh god, he said 'up and coming Video Recorder application' Nov 24 00:35:59 now I can't just go disappearing like i was planning :P Nov 24 00:39:18 LoneStar34: i followed installation instructions on precentral.net and installed novacom, but when i start webos quickinstall i get an error: no device connected Nov 24 00:39:54 sui: i have no knowledge of novacom Nov 24 00:40:08 LoneStar34: i chose emulator as connection type Nov 24 00:40:30 i have filecoaster installed, but want to try preware... what do i install to install preware? Nov 24 00:40:51 humm... u are running windows 7? Nov 24 00:41:21 LoneStar34: yes Nov 24 00:41:41 Nice article Roy. It was interesting. Nov 24 00:41:47 LoneStar34: x86_64 Nov 24 00:43:36 bmyers_here: Thank you Nov 24 00:43:38 how does one install preware? Nov 24 00:44:08 pandora--, get.preware.org ? Nov 24 00:44:10 read my article. :) try: http://install.preware.org Nov 24 00:44:13 pandora-- There is a desktop program that will do it for you. Nov 24 00:44:26 Right, install. I'm constantly sending people in the wrong direction, lol. Nov 24 00:44:27 is it just an ipk? Nov 24 00:44:42 no. Nov 24 00:44:46 like filecoaster Nov 24 00:44:48 ah Nov 24 00:44:49 it includes a service Nov 24 00:44:57 ok Nov 24 00:44:58 You need to use something to install it. Nov 24 00:44:59 pandora--: you need to follow the installation instructions closely. Nov 24 00:45:03 WOSQI can do it. Nov 24 00:45:04 it cannot be installed with fileCoaster Nov 24 00:45:07 * pandora-- nods Nov 24 00:45:09 thanks guys :) Nov 24 00:45:30 rwhitby: oh, no i didn't think it could, was just comparing the installations of filecoaster vs. preware Nov 24 00:45:46 anyone else had issues w/ alarms Nov 24 00:45:49 with 1.3.1 Nov 24 00:45:50 ;[ Nov 24 00:46:14 i had an alarm set when upgraded, now it doesnt go off. so i deleted & readded a new one for that same time, and it doesnt work either Nov 24 00:46:29 but alarms work if i set them for other times Nov 24 00:46:50 *huh* i have to got to bed Nov 24 00:46:52 nite Nov 24 00:47:17 i will continue tomorrow Nov 24 00:49:00 pandora--: yep, preware is a much more complex program, and since it does integrate much more deeply with the internals of the Pre to achieve that functionality, it has a correspondingly slightly more complex installation procedure. Nov 24 00:49:51 sui: not sure how novacom works Nov 24 00:50:08 LoneStar34: me either Nov 24 00:56:26 sui: is it a different type of emulator? Nov 24 00:57:25 LoneStar34: sry, i have to quit now. i'll try to get this to work tomorrow again Nov 24 00:58:11 quitters never win Nov 24 00:58:31 /quit i win Nov 24 00:58:54 ~facepalm Nov 24 00:59:09 s/~//me :P Nov 24 00:59:50 er... i suppose that should be s/~/\/me Nov 24 01:01:28 zsoc: um. s/~/\/me/ Nov 24 01:01:36 you are missing the trailing / Nov 24 01:02:25 jauderho, yes yes, i'm used to leaving it off in webos-internals because otherwise the bot stdout's your correction :P Nov 24 01:04:02 :) Nov 24 02:13:48 greetings all Nov 24 02:14:04 anyone here know how to access the telephony call state from another app? Nov 24 02:14:43 just wait for a reply.. most people just idle and answer when they come around. :D Nov 24 02:15:08 ok Nov 24 02:16:27 hey atlanta in fla. Nov 24 02:16:34 bmyers_here: wsup my man Nov 24 02:17:03 some football, some code'n. u? Nov 24 02:18:59 some coding Nov 24 02:31:07 anyone here know how to access the telephony call state from another app? Nov 24 02:38:20 football? It's basketball season... Nov 24 02:55:32 elryon: There is no way to know that I know of. Nov 24 02:55:54 There is no published API, in any case. Nov 24 02:56:25 Roy-Pre101: that's what I was afraid of... how about changing the messaging prefs from another app? Nov 24 02:59:16 messaging prefs? Nov 24 02:59:36 Check the api's at developer.palm.com. Nov 24 02:59:51 been all over those... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 24 03:00:00 2009