ids? Dec 18 06:55:57 I'd call it 'use a list' Dec 18 07:00:54 Roy-Pre101: So, I'm not doing a good job of unregistering event listeners. Is the pattern that you register an event listener (say for a click), then when you get that click you unregister and re-register if you want to listen again? Or do you only un-register when you are done with it (like changing scenes or the button goes away)? Dec 18 07:01:12 the latter. Dec 18 07:01:43 Usually only in the cleanup. Dec 18 07:02:10 So in the case of an event listener for the Mojo.Event.stageActivate, I need to unregister in the cleanup function. That sounds like exactly my problem. Dec 18 07:02:35 Roy-Pre101: is list a UI.widget or way of handling information? Dec 18 07:03:10 ui widget Dec 18 07:05:13 oh ok, think I was messing with a list when working on getData code sample Dec 18 07:05:34 Is Mojo.Event.stopListening the opposite of Mojo.Event.listen AND $("myCanvas").addEventListener ? Dec 18 07:09:10 Looks like I found it: removeEventListener is what I'm looking for for the latter. Dec 18 07:11:13 * rbredow owes Roy-Pre101 another beer. He just helped me fix a major bug that I would never have figured out without him. Dec 18 07:11:42 Wooohoo, keep updating, I'm shooting for a sixpack. Dec 18 07:12:41 nice: myself owe tons of folks pints Dec 18 07:38:06 Switching between python and javascript: my semicolons are killing me. Dec 18 07:40:45 php here Dec 18 07:43:42 rbredow: guess u and i are the only ones still awake... Dec 18 07:43:51 Very cool. Killed two obscure bugs tonight. One thanks to Roy, other I finally figured out on my own! Dec 18 07:44:03 Time to build, obfuscate and submit! Dec 18 07:44:17 rbredow cool Dec 18 07:44:32 wht do you use to "obfuscate"? Dec 18 07:44:48 googles' closure compiler. Doesn't really do to much if someone is determined. Dec 18 07:44:52 C++ and python here Dec 18 07:45:00 JS ummm different Dec 18 07:45:17 I assume you're not developing stuff for the catalog? Dec 18 07:46:01 why is obfuscatio forbidden in the catalog? Dec 18 07:46:07 obfuscation Dec 18 07:46:30 It's not. I just thought you must be developing some internals stuff if you're writing in C++ Dec 18 07:46:47 My Paratrooper app is slightly obfuscated and they didn't have an issue with it. Dec 18 07:46:47 oh...just meant that's my background Dec 18 07:46:50 go tit Dec 18 07:46:54 got it. (Oops) Dec 18 07:46:57 rbredow: good Idea, I will compress my code, when I am done Dec 18 07:47:29 Actually using it is a bit of a hassle. Lemme know if you want my hacky build scripts to start with. If you've got lots of files, it's a little bit of work. Dec 18 07:47:30 I doubt there's an C++ code on the pre....linux is straight C. I guess there are some java binaries too Dec 18 07:48:11 rbredow: what does game code look like? is it alot of loops? Dec 18 07:48:27 Not really. One big loop is best. Dec 18 07:48:36 Everything's still event driven... Dec 18 07:48:42 and the "gameloop" runs on a timer callback Dec 18 07:49:20 example: to move a trooper from north to south? is that alot of code? Dec 18 07:49:25 are you using canvas? Dec 18 07:49:33 Not really. It's a bit of stuff to setup the canvas and the sprites. Dec 18 07:49:47 Then, to drop a trooper you just adjust his position a little bit each loop. Dec 18 07:50:02 So, the actual animation of the trooper might be: self.sprite.trooper.y -= 3; Dec 18 07:50:10 That would drop him 3 pixels every frame. Dec 18 07:50:30 oh ok, very interesting stuff Dec 18 07:50:47 so you loop over canvas transformations? Dec 18 07:51:03 game looks awesome btw Dec 18 07:51:08 on youtube Dec 18 07:51:08 Thx. Dec 18 07:51:27 You actually clear the screen, the draw all the sprites in the new position on each loop. Dec 18 07:52:11 mmm...interesting...seems inefficient. I'd think you could replace elements like on a webpage Dec 18 07:52:14 how long hve you been dveloping games? Dec 18 07:53:54 When you just replace or move a div on a webpage, the system actually clears and redraws everything it touches anyway...so it's not too much worse. Dec 18 07:54:03 This is actually my first real game. Dec 18 07:54:18 But I do computer animation for a living. Dec 18 07:54:28 This is my job: http://www.imageworks.com/ Dec 18 07:54:30 ahh...interesting. So it re-renders the entire subtree containing the div? Dec 18 07:54:44 And, anything close enough to the div to be effected on the screen. Dec 18 07:54:59 In fact, a lot of browsers might just redraw everything. Lame, but the computers are pretty quick. Dec 18 07:56:31 yeah. They are going to be GPU accelerated soon....both IE and WebKit/Moz are gong that way Dec 18 08:00:06 rbredow: what servers do you all use to render the animations? Dec 18 08:00:26 linux boxes. we have a lot of different brands of hardware, but they all run linux. Dec 18 08:00:31 lots of them. Dec 18 08:01:47 don't really care for sony physical products, but the imageworks stuff is ridiculously dool Dec 18 08:01:53 dool = cool Dec 18 08:02:28 Thanks. My last movie was Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. it was a fun one. Dec 18 08:03:09 wow for some weird reason that movie reminds me of the "world of ooze" Dec 18 08:03:42 That's a good thing for me. Dec 18 08:04:03 sorry "goo" Dec 18 08:04:51 do you know of a list of fonts available for apps? Dec 18 08:06:06 No fonts. Just the one. It's unfortunate Dec 18 08:06:24 You can bold it, and
 it to get a little tiny bit of variety.
Dec 18 08:06:30  And italicize it too.
Dec 18 08:06:39  At least it's a nice font
Dec 18 08:06:47  rbredow: will paratrooper be your first app in the store?
Dec 18 08:07:28  It's my 3rd.  I have Altimeter, Attitude and Paratrooper.  Paratrooper is the most recent and released last week.  So far, it's been selling really well.  1700+ downloads.
Dec 18 08:07:51  hmmm.,,,,I guess it enforces a certain sameness in the UI
Dec 18 08:07:57  wow nice
Dec 18 08:08:42  will buy it once i get a device, sometime this month
Dec 18 08:09:54  If I'm around, I'll be happy to give you a copy and save you $1.99.  :)
Dec 18 08:10:24  ok, thanks!
Dec 18 08:29:07  rbredow: for some reason I'm not seeing paratrooper in my app catalog
Dec 18 08:29:27  Are you in the US or outside by any chance?  It's a paid app so it's only available in the US right now.
Dec 18 08:29:29  admittedly, my Pre is a special case - it's a Sprint CDMA Pre in Australia.
Dec 18 08:29:44  But I can see other paid apps.
Dec 18 08:30:04  and I can see altimeter and attitude
Dec 18 08:30:11  Interesting.  I wonder why it's not showing up.
Dec 18 08:30:22  You can try a search for "Trooper", that's how I find it.
Dec 18 08:31:00  I only have 541 apps total
Dec 18 08:31:07  I know everyone else has over 800
Dec 18 08:31:41  of course my GSM Pre only has about 50 apps, so I shouldn't complain too much :-)
Dec 18 08:31:55  I'm around app #740 or something so maybe you don't have mine yet.
Dec 18 08:32:38  where does Celebrity Tweets appear in your recent list?
Dec 18 08:32:51  Lemme check in a bit...
Dec 18 08:33:18  it's the first one in yesterday for me, and there are 11 for today (but most of those are updates for the half price specials)
Dec 18 08:33:55  rwhitby: I have access to a Sprint CDMA Pre... in Finlandd :D
Dec 18 08:34:21  since I went through all the trouble of getting someone in the US to buy me a prepaid visa card, just so I could buy apps from the catalog, I'm intrigued as to why I can't see them all.
Dec 18 08:35:35  zomg: how many apps are you seeing in the catalog in Finland?
Dec 18 08:40:58  rbredow, i wondering if the app link thats on the device works for people that dont have access
Dec 18 08:41:05  rwhitby: none :P
Dec 18 08:41:13  actually I don't even have the app catalog
Dec 18 08:41:29  Here's my app link:
Dec 18 08:41:30  http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.185vfx.paratrooper&applicationid=765
Dec 18 08:42:47  Paratrooper and Paratrooper Mini are now submitted!  Mini should show up worldwide and will be free--but only includes the first 5 levels.
Dec 18 08:44:12  The latest apps I have in my catalog here in the US are Classifieds2Go, Soccer Bulldog Backgrounds and Calculator (for 1.49).
Dec 18 08:55:59  wow how cool is ares
Dec 18 09:04:05  anyone know how to declare a character Global var?
Dec 18 09:10:07  LoneStar34: a what?
Dec 18 09:11:51  need to declare a global that is a not a number
Dec 18 09:12:10 * _ivanst_ stares at LoneStar34 in amazement
Dec 18 09:12:28  LoneStar34: the same way you declare a global number, but just... put in something else?
Dec 18 09:15:54  In stage assistant  I have: "globalUrl = 0;"   then  whatever.js  I try "globalUrl = 'http://www.yahoo.com'; but does not work....
Dec 18 09:16:58  try window.globalUrl = 0; and window.globalUrl = 'htt....'
Dec 18 09:17:07  it *should* work, although personally I'd recommend avoiding globals
Dec 18 09:17:15  zomg: ok
Dec 18 09:17:34  yeah, i know, but need a few globals
Dec 18 09:17:41  no ways around it
Dec 18 09:18:21  Usually there is, but yeah it may be simpler to just use globals
Dec 18 09:18:57  if it's a complex app you really do need globals
Dec 18 09:20:11  yeah, need some globals, b/c it is an ajax app
Dec 18 09:22:14  edektor: not true
Dec 18 09:22:21  LoneStar34: I don't see what ajax has to do with globals
Dec 18 09:22:42  but I won't argue that it may often be simpler to use globals instead of the alternative (albeit better ways wrt maintainability etc.) approaches
Dec 18 09:23:28  oh, it has to do with the pagination
Dec 18 09:23:33  typically you would have classes contain the variable needed and they would get passed as parameters
Dec 18 09:27:35  If you feel like describing how you use the global variable I could suggest alternative approaches ;)
Dec 18 09:27:38  (I'm bored)
Dec 18 09:30:44  zomg:  i need to update the "next" or "previous"  var page = (pages + 1); type thing
Dec 18 09:33:42  How about just storing the current page in your model or something?
Dec 18 09:34:43  hummm.. the think is , trying to get the first release submitted to Palm, so just making it work , then later will fine tune everything
Dec 18 09:55:14 * _ivanst_ yawns
Dec 18 10:37:47  hi is it possible to send UDP multicasts?
Dec 18 10:52:11  hmm
Dec 18 10:52:29  trying to update the os or any app tells me "update unavailable please try again later"
Dec 18 10:52:43  I wonder why it is doing that
Dec 18 11:17:37  hi there
Dec 18 11:17:45  I got a question
Dec 18 11:18:05  my app calculates certain values based on the actual date and time
Dec 18 11:18:34  is there a way to update these values without re-loading the scene?
Dec 18 11:19:06  like an update button that updates these values in the same scene?
Dec 18 11:20:56  svetter: did you ever get the other issue fixed?
Dec 18 11:21:07  no, not yet
Dec 18 11:21:33  but with that button, I could probably work around that
Dec 18 11:21:45  you need to use globals
Dec 18 11:22:05  hit me :)
Dec 18 11:22:06  or not need, but you can use
Dec 18 11:22:26  ok
Dec 18 11:24:27  so what exactly do you mean?
Dec 18 11:25:06  will pastebin it
Dec 18 11:25:19  ok, thanks
Dec 18 11:33:00  http://pastebin.com/d540ef9b5
Dec 18 11:43:13  LoneStar34: I like your style :D "I have this problem.." "Use globals!"
Dec 18 11:43:56  ps. you should declare globals with var like other variables
Dec 18 11:44:09  lol
Dec 18 11:44:49  did not want to use globals,but then "sugardave" insisted it would be easier....
Dec 18 11:44:56  heh
Dec 18 11:45:16  if you're not a seasoned dev it may indeed be easier
Dec 18 11:45:27  I've just been writing code for quite long so I like to complain about things like globals ;)
Dec 18 11:46:09  yeah, i never use globals in PHP, but will use one for now, then probably get rid of it later
Dec 18 11:47:21  Got any ideas why I can't seem to get webos update working on my Pre?
Dec 18 11:47:34  got 1.1.0 but not getting anything about new updates
Dec 18 11:47:36  zomg:  i have an ajax call, and it sometimes returns info and mainly not.  the query is always the same but is empty most of the time
Dec 18 11:48:27  zomg: not really sure, maybe powering off and powering it back on
Dec 18 11:49:02  Yeah it crashed once already.. :D
Dec 18 11:49:14  Maybe I'll just try to do a device reset or something
Dec 18 11:50:33  it sounds like that type of issue
Dec 18 11:50:45  something needs to be reset...
Dec 18 11:51:02  I tried using the global now
Dec 18 11:51:23  but instead of adding the values, I get them back in a row
Dec 18 11:51:37  like when I enter 1 and hit the button it shows "1"
Dec 18 11:51:53  but when I enter 2 then and hit the button I don't get 3 but "12"
Dec 18 11:52:19  svetter: you made it a string =)
Dec 18 11:52:23  or something made it a string
Dec 18 11:52:36  but I used parseFloat()
Dec 18 11:52:41  LoneStar34: btw your paste line 18 is confusing.. 0+1 1+1 what?
Dec 18 11:52:56  svetter: well if it was a string when the numbers were added then it does that
Dec 18 11:52:58  oh yeah
Dec 18 11:53:22  LoneStar34: you mean whenever yourVar is used it would increment it?
Dec 18 11:53:50  so how can I fix that?
Dec 18 11:53:53  i meant that everything would increment by 1 or what ever number entered
Dec 18 11:54:14  LoneStar34: ahh =)
Dec 18 11:54:24  svetter: dificult to say without seeing your code
Dec 18 11:54:25  yeah, kinda confusing
Dec 18 11:54:53  What's the point of making it another variable tho? Wouldn't it be same to just use the global
Dec 18 12:41:53  Oh crap
Dec 18 12:41:57  That was a stupid thing to do
Dec 18 12:42:14  I did a device reset and now it wants me to be in Sprint's CDMA network to log in to the palm profile
Dec 18 12:42:23  and the closest Sprint CDMA network is in the united states...
Dec 18 12:43:46  zomg: hmmm..... did it upgrade the firmware?
Dec 18 12:44:07  No, I just reseted it so that it would hopefully give me the update option
Dec 18 12:44:22  then it asked me to sign in with my Palm Profile, which I don't think I even have
Dec 18 12:44:31  because this is a phone from my job which they had brought in from the states :D
Dec 18 12:44:38  hello all
Dec 18 12:45:11  actually i want to develop games for palm
Dec 18 12:45:23  actually i have developed one using JS and HTML
Dec 18 12:45:41  what other language i can use for developing
Dec 18 12:45:54  zomg: note sure.....
Dec 18 12:46:04  someone in here is bound to know
Dec 18 12:46:08  well I found some 20 step process to start it w/o activation
Dec 18 12:46:11  so trying that now :P
Dec 18 12:46:31  good luck
Dec 18 12:52:42  looks like rwhitby has made an app which does it so I'm gonna try that first
Dec 18 12:52:50  (meta doctor)
Dec 18 12:52:55  weird get a too many card message message when there is only one open. Trying to go to the Listen Live link on http://www.newsradio880.com
Dec 18 12:53:19  zomg: meta-doctor is what I use all the time
Dec 18 12:53:42  rwhitby: yeah except I just realized it needs a VM.. Gaahh..
Dec 18 12:53:54  I was hoping it would be less of a PITA than the manual way to do it :D
Dec 18 12:53:54  zomg: what are you running?
Dec 18 12:53:57  Win XP
Dec 18 12:54:25  yep, unless you've got tar and sed and stuff, you'll need a VM
Dec 18 12:54:37  hmm
Dec 18 12:54:41  I do have cygwin
Dec 18 12:54:58  zomg: are you running the Palm SDK?
Dec 18 12:55:02  (emulator)
Dec 18 12:55:05  nope
Dec 18 12:55:09  not at this pc
Dec 18 12:55:24  I do have it set up at home but I'm not there at the moment
Dec 18 12:55:37  zomg: can you novaterm into the Pre?
Dec 18 12:56:01  You'll need to be more specific than that =)
Dec 18 12:56:12  can you access the Pre linux command line
Dec 18 12:56:42  Probably not since I did the reset which probably disabled developer mode and the other stuff
Dec 18 13:10:17  Doesn't seem very promising :D
Dec 18 13:10:28  Just untaring webos doctor from a snapshot is failing because it can't create symlinks
Dec 18 13:11:07  (can't clone the repo cause of the nazimode firewalls here)
Dec 18 14:02:20  How long have peoples updates been taking recently
Dec 18 14:05:26  omg...is there an version of ares that runs fluently on a pc older than one year?! it needs nearly a second to load a file..
Dec 18 14:05:59  Try a faster browser?
Dec 18 14:10:31  not before they give me all the features my firefox addons offer
Dec 18 14:17:01  hi all, i'm an iphone dev that started playing with ares yesterday... is there a good guide on using the sdk's emulator? i can't even figure out how to close apps
Dec 18 14:19:54 <_ivanst_> n8o: escape, then swipe the card upward once you are on the home screen
Dec 18 14:20:44  lol, nice. it flies off the top of the screen :D
Dec 18 14:46:27  for the life of me I can not ge the following code to produce results:  http://pastebin.com/d22baae85
Dec 18 14:46:36  get
Dec 18 14:55:22  in line 27 you are missing a semicolon
Dec 18 15:04:30  joekinley: thanks for, still to no avail...
Dec 18 15:05:20  i notice, that sometimes some some results do appear, but more often that not empty display
Dec 18 15:28:54  LoneStar34: about your problem, did u get it working?
Dec 18 15:30:09  Bmyers: it is to unstable to consider fixed
Dec 18 15:30:48  somtimes results and sometimes not
Dec 18 15:32:23  do you think it could be the source?
Dec 18 15:32:53  code usually works or it doesnt work unless its getting screwed up by bad data
Dec 18 15:34:12  or the fact that you mix up synchronous with asynchronous code
Dec 18 15:35:03  Bmyers: if a user has a choice of 5 options,  and clicks on one,  what is the best way to keep the variable set and unchanged throught the entire code
Dec 18 15:35:53  i have some code, that works perfectly, but just can't figure out why this code is flacky
Dec 18 15:37:12  set a global?
Dec 18 15:38:40  yeah,  i guess.... best solution i have now
Dec 18 15:39:02  nothing to be ashamed of
Dec 18 15:41:53  good morning everyone
Dec 18 15:41:53  yeah, i know, just kinda frustrated.... oh well.
Dec 18 15:43:47  morning
Dec 18 15:44:57  Bmyers: can it be the tap function?  maybe tap is not as good as a button...
Dec 18 15:51:20  how often should the system "wake up" and "sleep"? (In regards to powerd)
Dec 18 15:53:23  should be nearly the same as button. do some mojo logging and see if you're missing a tap
Dec 18 15:54:14  is there link for the mojo logging, is using putty?
Dec 18 15:57:33 <_ivanst_> LoneStar34: could you rephrase that in english? on a mac, you can "palm-log -f com.whatever.yourapplication" from a terminal to follow the log
Dec 18 15:58:26  or if u putty into the device u can use : log com.your.app
Dec 18 15:58:42  or emu
Dec 18 15:59:54  shit,  i am need to sleep, my sentences are not making sense
Dec 18 16:04:23  --ivanst__: thanks
Dec 18 16:12:52  morning y'all
Dec 18 16:13:16  morning
Dec 18 16:13:28  yetdog!!!!!!
Dec 18 16:13:32  simplest thing, but not working for me :( a label for a button object
Dec 18 16:13:43  seem to have set up the widget properly based on palm's sample code
Dec 18 16:13:46  but the button is blank
Dec 18 16:14:43  here's the relevant code: http://webos.pastebin.com/m57ce4e64
Dec 18 16:15:10  yo Bmyers!
Dec 18 16:16:43  any thoughts as to my dead-simple issue?
Dec 18 16:17:08  LoneStar34: easiest way to log things, use console.log('THIS IS A LOG MESSAGE: ' + someVar); in the appropriate places in your code...then you can `tail -f /var/log/messages | grep yourAppId' and watch all kinds of stuff
Dec 18 16:18:46  sugardave: do i log into the emulator using putty?
Dec 18 16:19:07  yes, of course
Dec 18 16:19:15  that's where /var is...
Dec 18 16:19:35  yeah, did not look like wintel to me
Dec 18 16:19:36  yetdog: looks like it should work...I always also set 'disabled': false for my buttons
Dec 18 16:19:53  yeah...the button shows up, but there's no label on it
Dec 18 16:20:08  I think I also set my label in the attributes...gimme some minutes to get the emu running
Dec 18 16:20:14  sure :)
Dec 18 16:20:35 * sugardave needs to call the emergency replacement people and get a new laptop tomorrow.  "Stupid fan."
Dec 18 16:20:48  my gf has an HP laptop and the damn fan runs all the time
Dec 18 16:21:05  thanks sugardave
Dec 18 16:21:09  these fans STOP running, that's the problem...I'm on my 5th replacement shell in 2.5 years
Dec 18 16:22:18  yetdog: yeah, I set my label with the attributes, and the disabled property in the model...try it just to see what happens
Dec 18 16:23:54  hi guys!
Dec 18 16:24:13  hi
Dec 18 16:24:18  i have it setup in my model
Dec 18 16:24:31              label : "Go",            disabled: false,            value: true
Dec 18 16:25:15  Is there an easy way to teach me how to save things after my App was closed so it can contiue working with these variables when opened up again?
Dec 18 16:25:36  cookies
Dec 18 16:26:00  I´m not a good coder yet
Dec 18 16:26:14  so where can I look up how to create a cookie?
Dec 18 16:26:17  this.showAddModel = {
Dec 18 16:26:17       "label" : "TAP HERE",
Dec 18 16:26:17  	 "disabled" : false,
Dec 18 16:26:17  	 "buttonClass" : ""
Dec 18 16:26:17  	};
Dec 18 16:26:23  still blank label :(
Dec 18 16:26:34  svetter: cookies are easiest if what you want to save is not too complex
Dec 18 16:26:52  yetdog: hang on
Dec 18 16:28:12  how do I create cookies for the Pre?
Dec 18 16:28:46  I got a tutorial here that says "document.cookie = "name=value; expires=date; path=path; domain=domain; secure";
Dec 18 16:28:52  this palm ares thing is crazy
Dec 18 16:29:18  so I need to know where to save the cookie. I guess it`s not my free choice where to save it, right?
Dec 18 16:30:16  svetter: you are using that to save a cookie in webos
Dec 18 16:30:16  ?
Dec 18 16:30:30  yetdog: http://webos.pastebin.com/d12bfb4b0  ..... that is one of my buttons from BOFH Excuse Generator...modify it for your button and see if it puts in a label....if not, something else is wrong
Dec 18 16:30:48  no, I just read that in a general JavaScript Cookie Tutorial
Dec 18 16:30:59  svetter: Cookie I/O is completely handled by the framework....no choice where it goes
Dec 18 16:31:20  and how do I tell the framework that I want to create one? :)
Dec 18 16:31:29  svetter: go to the API docs
Dec 18 16:31:35  svetter, visit Palms documentation on cookies at developer.palm.com
Dec 18 16:31:41  ok
Dec 18 16:31:42  thank
Dec 18 16:31:43  s
Dec 18 16:31:53  http://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Model.Cookie.html
Dec 18 16:31:57  sugar, with this HTML:  correct?
Dec 18 16:32:09  oooo
Dec 18 16:32:16  lol
Dec 18 16:32:18  x-mojo-element="Button"
Dec 18 16:32:22  I'm pretty sure thry have a simple example.
Dec 18 16:32:25  I think it's case-sensitive
Dec 18 16:32:29  oh those bastages :)
Dec 18 16:32:36  oh no nono
Dec 18 16:32:41  it HAS to be a div
Dec 18 16:32:43  not a button
Dec 18 16:32:50  say whaaaaa??
Dec 18 16:32:58  
Dec 18 16:33:13  iooooh
Dec 18 16:33:28  hi guys
Dec 18 16:33:29  bing
Dec 18 16:33:31  o
Dec 18 16:33:34  sweet
Dec 18 16:33:38  was his nameo. thank you :)
Dec 18 16:33:42  np
Dec 18 16:34:02  now i can go back to using the model setup, and update the label based on conditions and just do a modelchanged to update it, right?
Dec 18 16:34:05  as far as I know, ALL Mojo widgets are HTML divs
Dec 18 16:34:11  yetdog: yep
Dec 18 16:34:14  udaman
Dec 18 16:35:06  I set up a webview widget and would like the app to close automatically after the website is loaded, or load the site in the same card.. any ideas?
Dec 18 16:36:09  Jendrik: there's an event that occurs when the webview has finished loading the url...listen for that, then close the app
Dec 18 16:36:22  code complete in ares would be nice
Dec 18 16:36:34  yeah, sounds easy.. its my first app sugardave =)
Dec 18 16:36:38  Jendrik: tried stagecontroller.popScene() after you launch the web scene?
Dec 18 16:36:52  will try now
Dec 18 16:36:52  oh, your first app should be like "look at these AWESOME BUTTONS!"
Dec 18 16:36:54  hehe
Dec 18 16:37:02  okok.. my second app ;)
Dec 18 16:37:17  cause i looked at really awesome buttons
Dec 18 16:37:34  think I might have an example of listening on a WebView...hang on
Dec 18 16:39:11  MrJspeed.. where exactly would you put the popScene?
Dec 18 16:40:13  it doesn't close the app, but this is an example of instantiating a webview AFTER a scene has been set up...then, when it's 'stopped' (that's what you want to listen for) it forces a repaint of the scene: http://webos101.com/WebView
Dec 18 16:41:04  and btw, pretty much ALL my code examples will be for stage assistants NOT app assistants
Dec 18 16:41:10  but it's usually trivial to change it
Dec 18 16:41:57  Jendrik: if it's going to work, you put this.controller.popScene(...); in the handler function for your listen event
Dec 18 16:42:46  alright.. will try =) ty so far
Dec 18 16:48:20  ok, I found the code to create a new cookie in the API docs. But where do I put it? Let's say I want the cookie to be created as soon as the App is closed. Do I put it in .prototype.cleanup ???
Dec 18 16:48:39  svetter: : yes!
Dec 18 16:48:45  yep
Dec 18 16:49:19  svetter: the real answer is
Dec 18 16:49:26  'put it wherever you need it'
Dec 18 16:51:35  SD: pm email addy
Dec 18 16:51:36  wsup sugardave
Dec 18 16:51:41  Bmyers: wsup my man
Dec 18 16:51:42  atlanta!!!
Dec 18 16:51:55  work'n and work'n, u?
Dec 18 16:52:09  nothing at home relaxing got into a car accident yesterday
Dec 18 16:52:15  some idiot pulled out in front of me
Dec 18 16:52:45  everyone survive?
Dec 18 16:52:53  yup yup
Dec 18 16:53:04  the rest can be replaced..
Dec 18 16:53:08  hell yea
Dec 18 16:53:10  thats what i said
Dec 18 16:53:20  i hopped out and was just happy i was in one
Dec 18 16:53:37  i bet..
Dec 18 16:54:37  sugardave: ping
Dec 18 16:54:44  yo
Dec 18 16:57:47  anyway to make a button look like a hyperlink?
Dec 18 16:58:22  LoneStar34: why?  just use a link
Dec 18 16:59:53  mornin' chuqui
Dec 18 17:00:08  morning!
Dec 18 17:00:10  sugardave: can I make a link work like a mojo button?
Dec 18 17:00:17  I have my coffee, I  might make it to lunch
Dec 18 17:00:21  i may have found a bug
Dec 18 17:00:22  LoneStar34: what do you mean?
Dec 18 17:01:00  you can attach a listener to the link and do whatever you want when they click it
Dec 18 17:02:14  I have 2 ajax calls one with a button, and one with a tap,  the button always works perfectly, where as the tap div disquised as a link, only brings back data about 10% of the time
Dec 18 17:03:03  so was thinking of making a button look like a link, or make a link work exactly like a button
Dec 18 17:03:49  LoneStar34: I'd bet something else is going on...if the Ajax requests are exactly the same
Dec 18 17:04:22  made probably 500+ clicks on the tap, and my conlusion is,it works great with local data, but not meant for ajax requests
Dec 18 17:04:55  yeah, the calls are to the exact data sources, same queries etc...
Dec 18 17:05:01  LoneStar34: that conclusion is is not what I have seen
Dec 18 17:06:03  really... i hope i am wrong...
Dec 18 17:06:57  http://pastebin.com/d22baae85 that code is 95% identical to my button code
Dec 18 17:11:29  omg, you guys and using the entiring query string in you url for Ajax request...
Dec 18 17:11:36  entire*
Dec 18 17:12:47  hmm... what does that mean?
Dec 18 17:13:05  LoneStar34: line 6, instead of 'bind' use 'bindAsEventListener'
Dec 18 17:14:01  LoneStar34: I typically just use the base url and build my query string with the 'parameters' object of the Ajax request
Dec 18 17:14:11  it's a lot easier to manage and modify
Dec 18 17:14:24  wohooo.. thanks again sugardave, it works =)
Dec 18 17:14:32  Jendrik: awesome
Dec 18 17:15:57  Karma will make sure my app update is reviewed today ;)
Dec 18 17:16:09  I feel it
Dec 18 17:19:13  karma (and slipping a tenner in the correct palm, maybe?)
Dec 18 17:19:19  
Dec 18 17:20:54  there is only one Palm
Dec 18 17:20:59  yukyukyuk
Dec 18 17:22:54  anyone ever put a small spinner in a button? not sure how to HTML that
Dec 18 17:23:17  I know I've seen it before somewhere....but, no, have not done it
Dec 18 17:23:29  we'll see if i can work it in :)
Dec 18 17:23:44  in a list, cant u mark a row as not clickable tho the rest of the list is clickable?
Dec 18 17:24:13  yetdog: different widget called 'ActivityButton' has a spinner in it (at least according to Ares)
Dec 18 17:24:28  ah hmmm thx
Dec 18 17:24:55  Bmyers: not sure...still avoiding lists :D
Dec 18 17:25:21  .diabled i think
Dec 18 17:25:34  they're not gonna hurt u SD
Dec 18 17:25:59  yetdog -- how about setting up the button image as an animated gif and swapping it on and off the button as needed?
Dec 18 17:26:08  avoiding lists on a pre is like avoid an exotic dancer at a strip club..
Dec 18 17:26:28  bmyers: I think I'll have that written into the intro docs...
Dec 18 17:26:56  sure, its nice to have a drink but what r u there for?
Dec 18 17:26:57  sugardave: changed "bind" to "bindAsEventListener"
Dec 18 17:27:00  that's interesting chuqui - that could work. i guess i was just looking @ this page: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1634
Dec 18 17:27:16  shows the image. but i wanted it to spin while it was running ajax as the page loads. but gif, sure..
Dec 18 17:27:25  chuqui: you may use it with pride. little beauty from me to yooty
Dec 18 17:27:30  I ALWAYS look for the easy (read: lazy) solution....
Dec 18 17:30:26  chuqui so theres no inherent way to have a spinner during an initial ajax call for a button label?
Dec 18 17:30:46  ActivityButton isn't working?
Dec 18 17:31:00  is that an Ares-special-Widget?
Dec 18 17:31:14  well the activity is for a button press
Dec 18 17:31:18  that might work; I haven't actually tried it. I was just thinking of ways to do it as simple as possible, ludite that I am.
Dec 18 17:31:20  im looking to have it spin while the ajax is loading
Dec 18 17:31:38  yetdog: oh, it doesn't have a separate model you can access?
Dec 18 17:31:49  sugardave doesn't *Seem* to. just based on the API doc
Dec 18 17:31:55  (I admit: I've been so busy helping all you folks code I ahven't done nearly enough coding myself. That's a january promise to myself, I missed getting my hands dirty)
Dec 18 17:32:12  and the help is very much appreciated!
Dec 18 17:33:18  yetdog: I think I see what the deal is
Dec 18 17:33:28  i just dont know how to have a spinner be part of the label, temporarily. i think thats what id have to do
Dec 18 17:33:42  yetdog: I just used a regular button wrapped in a div with position: relative, then put an animated gif loader (they look better anyway) and when the ajax request is initialized I set the display of the gif to display: block; then when the request is complete I set it do display: none;
Dec 18 17:34:04  You can also change the button model to disabled. I've yet to do that, but I will today :)
Dec 18 17:34:18  there's no 'ActivityButton' widget....you change the type of the regular button to 'activityButton'...then you should have activate/deactivate methods that are only for the spinner
Dec 18 17:34:23  yea catalystmediastu, i might end up having to do that. not very hellbent on making it happen. thought it was more builtin
Dec 18 17:34:31  sugardave but i think those are only on button presses though, right?
Dec 18 17:34:39  shouldn't be
Dec 18 17:34:49  you should be able to call element.activate() on it wherever you need it
Dec 18 17:34:52  I thought it was too, but I'll be honest I didn't even try. I think the default loaders are kind of slow and ugly, so I used a custom gif :p
Dec 18 17:35:15  element.mojo.activate(), actually
Dec 18 17:35:15  "Mojo.Widget.activityButton- pushbutton with spinner activated on tap of the button
Dec 18 17:35:30  yetdog: Also the activity button shifts the label over when the loader is shown, very distracting.
Dec 18 17:35:33  I know, but it gives you controlling methods for JUST the spinner
Dec 18 17:35:37  try it, I bet it works
Dec 18 17:36:05  chuqui: ping
Dec 18 17:36:25  ah ok hang
Dec 18 17:36:28  poing
Dec 18 17:36:39  poing? very nice.
Dec 18 17:36:49  sugardave in the model setup would the type line be like this: "type" : Mojo.Widget.activityButton ?
Dec 18 17:37:02  in the attributes
Dec 18 17:37:35  ooo oduh you're right
Dec 18 17:37:38  *facepalm
Dec 18 17:38:07  one thing I'm not sure...are ALL attribute values of ALL widgets also valid/overrideable in the model?
Dec 18 17:39:36  not sure either. once again im having problems with the referencing tho :(
Dec 18 17:39:53  .mojo.activate();
Dec 18 17:40:02  so this.?.mojo.activate()l
Dec 18 17:40:05  not sure about ?
Dec 18 17:41:00  ok that sucked..
Dec 18 17:41:18  ups said they left my package at the front door but there was none to be seen
Dec 18 17:41:26  yetdog: something like this.controller.get('widgetId').mojo.activate();
Dec 18 17:41:28  they actually put it along side the house..
Dec 18 17:41:36  ah there we are
Dec 18 17:41:38  or $('widgetId').mojo.activate();
Dec 18 17:42:28  that's perfect. didnt see the method on the spinner!
Dec 18 17:42:33  absolutely *perfect!
Dec 18 17:42:36  awesome
Dec 18 17:42:53  :) thanks, again! sheesh
Dec 18 17:44:49  I knew it had to be something...it would really suck if it only spun while the button was depressed :D
Dec 18 17:54:33  Don't forget to document it on webos101.com!
Dec 18 17:56:54 <_ivanst_> xanax ftw...
Dec 18 18:04:11  you should get tshirts printed up Roy..
Dec 18 18:04:34  coffee mugs or something..
Dec 18 18:07:20  if anyone from palm is here I would like to thank you so much for releasing ares
Dec 18 18:07:57  I am no longer lost. made my app in under an hour!
Dec 18 18:10:52  Bmyers: I should.
Dec 18 18:11:01  prototypic: Nice.
Dec 18 18:11:15  I quoting you on IRC.
Dec 18 18:12:04  I'm
Dec 18 18:12:25  quoting? you must not be talking about me
Dec 18 18:12:32  Yep.
Dec 18 18:12:47  lol k
Dec 18 18:43:30  Anyone here have a clue about the guts of Mojo.Model.encrypt?
Dec 18 18:48:27  Hi!
Dec 18 18:52:24  This place is like a ghost town
Dec 18 18:52:53  instanttumbleweed.com
Dec 18 18:53:29  brb
Dec 18 19:11:10  Anyone have a suggestion on a good xml parser that produces javascript-accessible variables?
Dec 18 19:11:28  (One that works on the Pre, of course. :-p)
Dec 18 19:14:16  JavaAtom - apparnetly JSON is the preferred data structure
Dec 18 19:14:22  xml will work but json is faster
Dec 18 19:15:05  If you can get you data in JSON, go for that
Dec 18 19:15:25  if yer stuck with xml, well, you have my sympathy
Dec 18 19:15:50  i was all XML before too. switched to json because well the pre likes it better
Dec 18 19:15:56  never tried XML on the pre, is it really that much slower?
Dec 18 19:16:01  I think the usual way is to grovel thru the xml with xpath
Dec 18 19:16:21  so am i right that there is already a syncml library or some functionality in webOS already
Dec 18 19:19:11  Bmyers?
Dec 18 19:20:12  xml is a lot more work to parse in general.  I find it a lot more painful too
Dec 18 19:22:10  JF
Dec 18 19:22:17  WHAT UP DOG!!!!
Dec 18 19:22:41  ADORA WHAT UP DOG!!!!
Dec 18 19:22:45  :)
Dec 18 19:22:55  it's up dog day..
Dec 18 19:24:13  Bmyers: dude I got drawers in a list to work!
Dec 18 19:24:51  you DO you have use the drawers methods
Dec 18 19:25:09  i saw that
Dec 18 19:25:24  post some code or a functioning skeleton app
Dec 18 19:25:30  i'd love to see it
Dec 18 19:25:37  OK...hold on
Dec 18 19:25:56  thats great work.. glad you peristed and got what you wanted..
Dec 18 19:26:02  persisted...
Dec 18 19:26:45  you must have add id's too?
Dec 18 19:26:54  I started implementing the collapsible dividers and had an epiphany
Dec 18 19:27:02  no IDs are required
Dec 18 19:27:14  good good
Dec 18 19:27:28  it relies on getElementsByName and using the index of the list element that the tap send
Dec 18 19:27:37  makes sense
Dec 18 19:29:12  I'm not sure why I didn't think of it earlier
Dec 18 19:29:33  I get tunnel coding sometimes :)
Dec 18 19:30:16  sleep, sugar, or beer or combinations there of help sometimes too.
Dec 18 19:31:17  here's the pertinent parts: http://www.pastie.org/749124
Dec 18 19:32:32  Now I have to fold my sandbox code back into my actual app. I find it easier to isolate components and test then in a single scene app than the multistage/multiscene main app I'm working on
Dec 18 19:33:06  for sure..
Dec 18 19:33:54  Yeah, I hate when I get tunnel vision from coding so much
Dec 18 19:34:38  so togglestate takes care of some of the dirty work for you based on the data in the list model
Dec 18 19:34:39  Is there a way to strip just SOME html and not all of it? I want to leave , , and  tags.
Dec 18 19:34:58  There must be a way to set the level of HTML stripping in the framework :S
Dec 18 19:35:03  Once I had the drawers working.....the CSS was a real bear. There are no less than three hidden divs each with their own stuling
Dec 18 19:35:54  catalystmediastu: Hmmm.....I haven't seen anything like that, though I'd like to do the same thing
Dec 18 19:36:38  collapsable div and drawers are different
Dec 18 19:36:41  I was getting ready to write a complicated regular expression that strips all tags except certain ones
Dec 18 19:37:13  catalystmediastu: regexp that replaces all tags with whitespace EXCEPT the ones you're interested in
Dec 18 19:37:31  thats really great JF. I am glad u got that to work
Dec 18 19:37:37  yes, that's the ticket
Dec 18 19:37:44  jfelectron: ah, I see what you did there
Dec 18 19:37:54  Bmyers: the drawers are easier than collapsible dividers
Dec 18 19:38:00  for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dec 18 19:38:09  collpasible dividers end up being a lot more code with additional templates
Dec 18 19:38:27  sugardave: That seems like it'd would work, but I'm not sure how secure that'd be. For instance I'd also have to parse out onclick handlers in  tags and all kinds of stuff. It seems like there'd be a way to do it with the framework. I wonder if anyone has
Dec 18 19:38:28  its a different look too
Dec 18 19:38:29  jfelectron: I don't think there's anything on webos101.com about drawers.  Maybe you could add something?
Dec 18 19:38:47  i was gonna say...
Dec 18 19:38:52  before Roy asks for it
Dec 18 19:39:05  Roy-Pre101: Sure!
Dec 18 19:39:08  you'll get a free tshirt if you post that there..
Dec 18 19:39:17  :D
Dec 18 19:40:05  does everyone use xhtml for webOS dev? anyone using html 5?
Dec 18 19:40:09  has anyone played with Ares?
Dec 18 19:40:45  n80: there is HTML5 baked in so to speak. The DB for instances is HTML5
Dec 18 19:41:02  
Dec 18 20:25:00    
Dec 18 20:25:00  catalystmediastu: can you give me an example of what you're talking about?
Dec 18 20:25:24  and I don't mind talking about it. Spaz is open source. You can and should look at it and the SpazCore libraries I made
Dec 18 20:25:29  i wonder why everyone is calling me n80 and not n8o, is there a n80 in here?
Dec 18 20:25:41  we can't read
Dec 18 20:25:44  but what links and  tags are you referring to?
Dec 18 20:25:44  Well in the tweets list I would like to have links and also bold people's @usernames, but right now the default HTML stripping strips everything including  and 
Dec 18 20:26:10  n8o: O0oo00ps my bad :p
Dec 18 20:26:11  The title is the inner Div with class title
Dec 18 20:26:14  oh, well, first off i'm using my own templating stuff for that because I think Mojo's kinda suck (no conditionals)
Dec 18 20:26:36  There's a way to control html escaping in templates
Dec 18 20:26:42  not that I can remember what it is...
Dec 18 20:26:44  secondly, you can turn off escaping on a per-macro basis
Dec 18 20:26:50  lemme find it. I do use it in a couple spots
Dec 18 20:26:59  funkatron: Oh... that would explain it. Your code is open-source isn't it? Mind if I take a look?
Dec 18 20:27:10  that's why I linked you to my source code repo 8D
Dec 18 20:27:15  lemme find it
Dec 18 20:27:22  yes....you add "-"  ike #{-ListElement}
Dec 18 20:27:29  that's it
Dec 18 20:27:51  Oh I missed that :p Thanks. Will that let everything in though? I don't want onclick handlers and script tags in :S That'd be baad
Dec 18 20:28:03  well, Twitter encodes everything they get
Dec 18 20:28:07  jfelectron: see, i would expect there to be a greater abstration between an ares-created widget and the code needed to alter it
Dec 18 20:28:16  So, if you trust them, you should not get code injections
Dec 18 20:28:25  i shouldn't have to know exactly how it's  implemented to be able to change it
Dec 18 20:28:34  whether you trust them is up to you, of course
Dec 18 20:29:01  funkatron: Ahh, I did not know that. That will make things much easier. Thanks for lettin me know!
Dec 18 20:29:07  you bet
Dec 18 20:29:25  n8o: but the styling is entirely HTML and CSS....it would be tricky to abstract every possible element
Dec 18 20:29:55  Also, Ares is a new development...I expect it wil mature
Dec 18 20:29:58  jfelectron: not really. either standardize or leave the implementation to the widget's author
Dec 18 20:30:11  i assume it will - bespin isn't even doing auto indenting :S
Dec 18 20:30:37  most style elements aren't widgets, they're just HTML elements
Dec 18 20:30:59  widgets might be ares terminology, i dunno, but implementation is just not an excuse
Dec 18 20:31:23  they've built part of interface builder here and it should behave that way. in fact, i assume it will
Dec 18 20:31:44  i'm surprised it doesn't already tho. webOS devs have been hung up on UI implementation this whole time? :(
Dec 18 20:31:48  widget could mean any UI element.....in Mojo it means things with methods and controls
Dec 18 20:32:00  Anyone here using cookies
Dec 18 20:32:03  hung up?
Dec 18 20:32:20  The expectation is that CSS is a lower bar than say Cocoa UI is
Dec 18 20:32:36  jfelectron: have to be aware of. should be as simple as making a div, giving it a class, and then working with it
Dec 18 20:32:58  styling is all OS level. if in webOS 2 palm decides to style page headers 4 divs nested, all apps should just work
Dec 18 20:33:37  jfelectron: that is not a correct expectation. Objective C has a learning curve, but the levels of abstration in cocoa touch are sublime
Dec 18 20:33:41  make sure if you are using a div without a div to make class="" or it will take on the default webOS style
Dec 18 20:33:53  using a div without a class
Dec 18 20:34:12  how does class="" do anything?
Dec 18 20:34:15  n8o: My app has nearly every element customized. It took a bit to get it, but it wasn't hard once I did. Just add a custom class to the widget and there you go, pretty easy to change it in the css from there.
Dec 18 20:34:20  it doesn't in a real browser...
Dec 18 20:34:21  n80: for sure, Interface Builder is supreme
Dec 18 20:34:35  yes, the CSS is pretty easy
Dec 18 20:34:42  n8o: just makes it so your styles override the default palm ones when you declare you styles in the css
Dec 18 20:35:04  catalystmediastu: that does not make sense
Dec 18 20:35:10  class="" makes it not take the standard .div{} style
Dec 18 20:35:15  same for buttons
Dec 18 20:35:29  The web and WebOS are about customatization....iPhone and Apple are about sameness
Dec 18 20:35:41  .div is a CSS selector that would work on divs with class="div"
Dec 18 20:35:45  
Dec 18 20:48:12  that looks totally different then
Dec 18 20:48:17  
Dec 18 20:48:19  in webOS
Dec 18 20:49:28  CTLAdvance: they look identical in my emulator
Dec 18 20:49:37  They are different in my device
Dec 18 20:49:43  one is taller
Dec 18 20:50:21  weee
Dec 18 20:50:28  does virtualbox use it's own hosts file?
Dec 18 20:50:31  maybe you put a button[class] style in your stylesheet haha
Dec 18 20:50:49  finally working on my serverside frontend to my app tracking statistics thinger
Dec 18 20:50:53  CTLAdvance: and for sure, .div is not a selector that would work on either of those
Dec 18 20:51:57  n80 I found a diff between my two devices
Dec 18 20:52:04  one is the same and the other is not
Dec 18 20:52:06  let me see why
Dec 18 20:52:37  in the emulator each click gets that ripple effect. is that on the device as well?
Dec 18 20:52:50  yes
Dec 18 20:52:55  cool
Dec 18 20:53:06  is there a way to make accelerated 3d apps?
Dec 18 20:54:13  n80: u cant even make slow ones..
Dec 18 20:55:08  well webkit supports 3d tranforms, hehe
Dec 18 20:55:12  that'd be a slow one to be sure
Dec 18 20:57:38  no gpu support yet..
Dec 18 20:58:04  the 3D Canvas tranforms aren't supported yet
Dec 18 20:58:15  jfelectron: lolwut
Dec 18 20:58:16  shit
Dec 18 20:58:54  flash early next year....WebGL maybe...GPU access  maybe
Dec 18 20:59:35  webGL is a decent idea
Dec 18 20:59:41  flash is pretty meh imho
Dec 18 20:59:49  GPU access would be useless without any sort of low level access... webGL would be great
Dec 18 21:00:04  based on how these are written that is
Dec 18 21:00:38  CTLA: yes, of course
Dec 18 21:01:08  Unless they are toying with that now I wouldnt expect that until late next year or even 2011
Dec 18 21:01:34  WebGL was recently ratified...but its all rumor on the palm side of things
Dec 18 21:01:50  or close to ratification
Dec 18 21:01:54  if they wait till 2011 to open the GPU we're in trouble :(
Dec 18 21:02:18  n8o: the version of webkit in webos doesn't even support 3d transforms.
Dec 18 21:02:37  agreed..why include a SOC with a GPU if just to leave it unusable?
Dec 18 21:02:48  yetdog I mean for webGL
Dec 18 21:02:59  ah well yes, they need a low level sdk
Dec 18 21:02:59  they are working on acceleration soon, but in the form of transforms
Dec 18 21:03:05  lyht: well darn
Dec 18 21:03:12  the iphone is already embarrassingly more responsive to touch :(
Dec 18 21:03:30  Thats why we need to move most of the display events to the gpu
Dec 18 21:03:38  makes sense, WebGL is an entirely new framework. Partial canvas support exists, so its easier just to extend that
Dec 18 21:03:41  it will increase speed greatly
Dec 18 21:03:54  do u think it will increase responsiveness?
Dec 18 21:03:58  ie, scrolling and draggin?
Dec 18 21:04:00  yes
Dec 18 21:04:03  a great amount
Dec 18 21:04:03  definetely
Dec 18 21:04:04  scroll a list on iphone, wow, its like paper on a tbale
Dec 18 21:04:06  table*
Dec 18 21:04:09  with the pre its like, muddy
Dec 18 21:04:14  the issue is the 600mhz processor now does everything
Dec 18 21:04:18  right
Dec 18 21:04:31  did you guys hear?
Dec 18 21:04:39  hear what
Dec 18 21:04:43  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNrx2jq184
Dec 18 21:04:56  some of it has to do with the way people setup things like lists too....the code to make things load lazily is not incredibly well document, so I think most people aren't using it
Dec 18 21:05:09  oh, well my lists are quick. but its still a touch response thing
Dec 18 21:05:09  but anyways the dev team has decided to move with transforms to move work to the gpu
Dec 18 21:05:20  theres something incredibly well documented?
Dec 18 21:05:33  yetdog: OK
Dec 18 21:06:03  sorry dont quote me, it can change at any time
Dec 18 21:06:09  thats what was said last though
Dec 18 21:06:34  apple did the same thing - only transforms are accelerated inside webkit
Dec 18 21:06:44  of course, all the cocoa stuff can be accelerated
Dec 18 21:07:39  well unfortunately this isnt yet
Dec 18 21:07:46  so we work with what we have
Dec 18 21:07:52  palm's strategy seems to be...lets push these web standards, lets redefine what is possible in the mobile 'web'
Dec 18 21:08:00  and we dont wine about it
Dec 18 21:08:02  zing
Dec 18 21:08:02  still so exciting. IMO we are so far ahead of where the iphone was 6 months in
Dec 18 21:08:13  with their "web apps"
Dec 18 21:08:18  its a gamble, and its a slow process....but at least it will drive advances that will propagate to the entire web
Dec 18 21:08:28  yetdog iphone didnt have apps at 6months in
Dec 18 21:08:35  they didnt even have an available sdk
Dec 18 21:08:40  i know
Dec 18 21:08:46  not until the 3g
Dec 18 21:08:47  oh how people forget
Dec 18 21:08:54 * yetdog didnt forget
Dec 18 21:09:04  they said anything developed would be server side, a "web app"
Dec 18 21:09:19  the app numbers game is like the megapixel war in cameras
Dec 18 21:09:20  so, as i was saying, palm is so far ahead of that at this point
Dec 18 21:09:27  which isnt really an application on that device because if you remove the internet connection guess what
Dec 18 21:09:30  no apps
Dec 18 21:09:31  exactly
Dec 18 21:09:44  so, pre @ 6 months vs iphone @ 6 mos = pre win, IMO
Dec 18 21:09:53  we'll see where we are june of next year
Dec 18 21:09:55  not in your opinion
Dec 18 21:09:57  =fact
Dec 18 21:09:59  lol :)
Dec 18 21:10:10  i dont care about a zillion apps, its quality
Dec 18 21:10:18  and we're pretty damn good considering the SDK right now
Dec 18 21:10:25  (not that its bad, just...not low level, etc)
Dec 18 21:10:30  no... we really do need 1000 different brighthouse apps
Dec 18 21:10:41  true CTLAdvance in fact i want more ;)
Dec 18 21:10:52  more sports apps!
Dec 18 21:11:05  I want a dictionary that has an app for each word!
Dec 18 21:11:13  RLOL
Dec 18 21:11:18  I plan to make 1000 different versions of our fart app
Dec 18 21:11:18  i know what word to start with
Dec 18 21:11:43  my free app has nearly 400 downloads! came out tues night :)
Dec 18 21:11:44  just imagine how useful.....get the info for EXACTLY the word you want not having to deal with all those other words you DON't want
Dec 18 21:11:54  its pure heaven
Dec 18 21:11:59  i'd pay a dollar for it
Dec 18 21:12:31  did all devs get an invite to CES?
Dec 18 21:12:35  developer receptioN?
Dec 18 21:13:58  sorry, a code question: What is the penalty of adding a property to an arbitrary object in JS? Does the entire object get copied and a new one created with the new property?
Dec 18 21:16:56  jfelectron: I dont know for sure, but I do it all the time and have not seen any issues.
Dec 18 21:17:23  OK, I have no choice...so I'll see. Just curious
Dec 18 21:17:43  I think it depends on the size of the objects and whether that triggers garbage collection
Dec 18 21:18:09  I think it does copy it, but as long as there is room in the heap for the copy its fine
Dec 18 21:22:47  I got an invite
Dec 18 21:24:06  me too CTLAdvance
Dec 18 21:26:40  not me :(  Though probbly either cause I'm canadian or that I've submitted no app catalog apps yet, lol
Dec 18 21:29:04  is there a way to view the source of the chrome js in Ares?
Dec 18 21:30:22  well, I guess I could just download the file..
Dec 18 21:39:57  hi! one simply & perhaps stupid question... I'm trying Ares, but when I click over Run App nothing shows... how can I run a sample app? I've tried it on chromium & firefox
Dec 18 21:53:42  you have to have the sdk installed
Dec 18 21:53:46  it doesnt run the app in the browser
Dec 18 21:53:52  it sends the app to the emulator
Dec 18 21:54:01  which is part of the SDK
Dec 18 22:03:38  dawm, have you set up mercurial access through Ares?
Dec 18 22:04:02  mercuial? wtf is that
Dec 18 22:04:13  dawm: I have the SDK installed (Ubuntu 9.10), when I run it from console (palm-emulator) I only can see the device emulator selector, but I can't see the emulator. I use Ares to test if via web it starts, but I can't see results ;_(
Dec 18 22:04:22  it's like cvs for grown-ups.
Dec 18 22:04:35  sorry, typo, mercurial.
Dec 18 22:04:51  emulator has to be running in order to run an app from Ares
Dec 18 22:05:18  you say Selector.. do you mean the listbox which asks which Resolution to use?
Dec 18 22:06:04  dawm: yes, I select one of them, and then start emulator
Dec 18 22:06:15  is it possible to query the targeting element of a Mojo.tap event?
Dec 18 22:06:19  but I can't see the emulator
Dec 18 22:06:35  then you have issues to fix before you bother trying to get Ares to run the app
Dec 18 22:06:39  your emulator has to work first
Dec 18 22:07:03  ok dawm thanks for the info... go to google it
Dec 18 22:08:00  you also need novacomd working under ubuntu
Dec 18 22:08:18  thats how Ares communicates with the Emulator, as well as the SDK programs
Dec 18 22:08:35  ohhhhh holy shit! I can start it via double click! the button "Start emulator" doesn't work!
Dec 18 22:08:42  lol
Dec 18 22:09:15  very big lol xD
Dec 18 22:10:36  nevermind.....you just bind the listener to a particular target
Dec 18 22:10:38  i got a similar problem and needed to restart computer in order to be proep
Dec 18 22:10:40  Have you guys been able to get the debugger running in ares?  I can get it to attach to the emulator and stop execution, but when I try to inspect a variable, it seems the "enter" key doesn't actually take.
Dec 18 22:10:44  properly registered
Dec 18 22:11:13  talking about emulator*
Dec 18 22:26:02  yp
Dec 18 22:26:03  dawg
Dec 18 22:26:08  *yo
Dec 18 22:31:09  yo
Dec 18 22:31:41  When I run this I get an error saying that it is not a valid regular expression: /(? dawm: I'm running the emulator (SDK) and run a sample app in Firefox, but no output at the emulator
Dec 18 22:41:12  jfelectron: ping
Dec 18 22:41:20  here
Dec 18 22:41:29  have you still given up on drawers?
Dec 18 22:41:36  nope...its works!
Dec 18 22:41:59  Cool. I'd like to seen an example...
Dec 18 22:42:13  hold on
Dec 18 22:42:23  it ended up being simple
Dec 18 22:42:38  using the modelProperty directly doesn't work
Dec 18 22:43:05  but getting the handle to the particular drawer based on tap and using that handle to toggle the drawer state does
Dec 18 22:43:22  ah. how do you get the handle?
Dec 18 22:43:54  drawers=this.controler.document.getElementsByName('listDrawer');
Dec 18 22:43:58  Anyone here going to CES?
Dec 18 22:44:09  curDrawer=drawers[event.index]
Dec 18 22:44:17  sweet
Dec 18 22:44:20  curDrawer.mojo.toggleState()
Dec 18 22:44:22  done!
Dec 18 22:44:29  getElementsByName!
Dec 18 22:44:37  yep...crazy simple!
Dec 18 22:44:50  do your drawers use #{} templates from the list model?
Dec 18 22:45:07  yes....rick_home was wrong about that
Dec 18 22:45:16  the content of the drawer IS a list item property
Dec 18 22:45:36  the framework does all the need name mangling...so it all works out
Dec 18 22:45:54  did you put it on 101?
Dec 18 22:45:56  :)
Dec 18 22:45:59  will
Dec 18 22:46:02  working on it
Dec 18 22:46:03  exit
Dec 18 22:46:20  the CSS of the drawers took awhile to figure out
Dec 18 22:46:59  each drawer has three div children .drawer-container, .drawer-wrapper, .drawr-contents
Dec 18 22:47:16  the drawers kept overflowing my custom palm-group
Dec 18 22:47:25  it took some tweaking to figure it out
Dec 18 22:47:57  glad you got it sorted out...
Dec 18 22:48:11  sugardave, you around?
Dec 18 22:48:24  thanks for your help! You were def right about it being able to work
Dec 18 22:48:31  thanks for your help today folks
Dec 18 22:49:21 * keenapps is leaving
Dec 18 22:49:22  haeffb: also right about not using an id for the drawer or any widget inside another widget
Dec 18 22:50:08  That whole widget in a list thing is hard to wrap your head around, but once you do it's like....duh...that makes sense!
Dec 18 22:51:54  yep!
Dec 18 22:52:29  I'll have the drawers up on WebOS101 this evening. I'm working on the icon toggle, which I'll include in the tutorial.
Dec 18 22:55:02  Any list experts online right now?  I've got a list that works great (35 items) but unless I set the renderLimit to above 35, when I pop back onto the scene with the list from another scene, the list entries are blank until the user scrolls.
Dec 18 22:55:30  LOL rbredow
Dec 18 22:55:34  i had the *same* exact problem
Dec 18 22:55:48  thats what i had to do, set the renderlimit
Dec 18 22:55:52  and it worked *shrugs*
Dec 18 22:55:56  That's why I love this chatroom.  So far it's saved me about 3,248 hours.
Dec 18 22:56:16  I'm just worried that when I have 500 items in the list, it's going to have memory issues.
Dec 18 22:56:49  yeah im not sure what the fenceline is on that. my app is pretty lightweight so i didnt really worry about it, but i know what you mean
Dec 18 22:57:09  rbredow: probably need to look at "lazy loading lists"
Dec 18 22:57:14  I'm trying to build the structure for user-submitted levels.  And I really don't know how many I'll get.
Dec 18 22:57:24  haeffb;  Yup.  Reading about those now actually.  Thanks.
Dec 18 22:57:29  yes....lazyloading is the key
Dec 18 22:57:52  I have a huge dynamic list and the lazyloading really makes things smooth
Dec 18 22:58:10  gonna have to read about that
Dec 18 22:58:21  Anyone had issues with scrollers going very slowly when the height is above about 250px? I have a list inside of a scroller at roughly 400px (the size of the Pre's viewable area) and it's slow. 250px and it's fast... very strange
Dec 18 22:58:25  That's cool.  Do you load lazily from an internet source or from a data structure you have in memory?
Dec 18 22:58:44  interesting
Dec 18 22:58:57  Both. Initially I lazy load from a cache...but then the list gets updated via AJAX
Dec 18 22:59:04  lol. now have drawers opening and closing in my list... :)
Dec 18 22:59:08  of course initially its entirely from AJAX
Dec 18 22:59:22  oh yeah baby...its sweetness
Dec 18 22:59:39  but there's nothing in them.
Dec 18 22:59:42  jfelectron:  sounds cool.
Dec 18 22:59:49  just empty drawers that open and close!
Dec 18 23:00:06  I had to do it, otherwise the rendering and scrolling were slow and or choppy
Dec 18 23:03:00  can you use focusItem to snap to the top of a list?
Dec 18 23:03:19  jfelectron: do you allow multiple drawers open at the same time? I'm wondering if it's a better user experience if opening one closes the other...
Dec 18 23:03:53  haeffb: currently yes. I thought about it....I'm inclined to let users manage that themselves
Dec 18 23:04:01  hey haeffb, cool list o drawers huh?
Dec 18 23:04:07  might have a couple things open at the same time scroll back and forth
Dec 18 23:04:18  probably depends on the app.
Dec 18 23:04:21  forcing closing would be frustrating to me
Dec 18 23:04:28  Bmyers: yes, mighty cool
Dec 18 23:04:57  I'll include controls to close the drawer both at the top and bottom so they don't have to scroll back up just to close the drawer
Dec 18 23:04:59  guess it works after all
Dec 18 23:05:28  except I can't get anything to show up in my drawers yet. Need to figure what's going on with that.
Dec 18 23:06:05  ah
Dec 18 23:06:11  hmm...do you have #{listItemProperty} inside the drawer div?
Dec 18 23:06:44  it might be named something else i suppose
Dec 18 23:07:01  but some squigglies will be needed for sure
Dec 18 23:07:20  listItemProperty is just a placeholder for any list item Model property
Dec 18 23:07:25  at this point, just static text in the div:  Text 
Dec 18 23:07:59  var scroller = this.controller.getSceneScroller();
Dec 18 23:08:10  scroller.mojo.revealTop(0);
Dec 18 23:09:18  that will snap to the top of the scene scroller = top of list unless the list is in another scroller.
Dec 18 23:09:23  ahh.....thanks
Dec 18 23:10:01  what does focusItem do then?
Dec 18 23:10:14  dunno
Dec 18 23:10:23  I'll test it
Dec 18 23:11:09  i think it puts focus on a widget?
Dec 18 23:11:15  or list item?
Dec 18 23:11:32  on a list item...but what does 'focus' mean? Does it scroll the list
Dec 18 23:11:33  ?
Dec 18 23:11:42  i beleive so..
Dec 18 23:12:00  not sure tho..
Dec 18 23:12:03  50-50..
Dec 18 23:12:06  :)
Dec 18 23:16:49  any experience with multi-state images
Dec 18 23:16:50  ?
Dec 18 23:17:05  I shoudn't need to add any specific styling to the drawer, right? Should expand to show whatever is included in the div?
Dec 18 23:17:10  nope
Dec 18 23:17:23  there are default styles that applied
Dec 18 23:17:40  in my case I have a custom palm-group and the default drawer overflowed the boundaries
Dec 18 23:18:03  pastie time :)
Dec 18 23:19:40  Got some text to show up by adding another div inside the drawer div
Dec 18 23:20:51  Is Object.toJSON the right and only way to convert an object into a string?
Dec 18 23:21:13  I am getting a weird situation where that call kicks back a null.
Dec 18 23:22:35  If one of the values in my object is null, will the entire string become null?
Dec 18 23:22:48  Now am getting my listModel properties to show up in the drawer.
Dec 18 23:23:45  haeffb: oh yeah.....I discovered that last night
Dec 18 23:23:49  was confused by the "basic drawer" example in UIWidgets, which doesn't use another div. But does use UL. So, apparently you need another DOM element inside the drawer div...?
Dec 18 23:23:50  forgot about that
Dec 18 23:24:00  I think so
Dec 18 23:24:11  better add that to the 101...!
Dec 18 23:24:24  the framework nests that div inside another div which gets a unique ID
Dec 18 23:24:56  yeah...will do
Dec 18 23:27:16  sugardave, ping
Dec 18 23:27:44  pretty cool guys.. post  that on 11
Dec 18 23:27:48  pretty cool guys.. post  that on 101
Dec 18 23:28:34  dawm_: sugardave is scared of me.
Dec 18 23:28:49  once I figure out this multi-state button thing  I will
Dec 18 23:28:54  Anyone here have a clue about the guts of Mojo.Model.encrypt?
Dec 18 23:29:15  the guts..like what protocol?
Dec 18 23:29:21  no, but there was some info on the dev forums. But you may have already seen that.
Dec 18 23:29:23  lol
Dec 18 23:29:42  What parameters get passed to the actual openssl blowfish call
Dec 18 23:29:53  http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1281
Dec 18 23:30:36  yes, that's the one that I figured you'd already seen.
Dec 18 23:30:37  I assume you need to know because you need to decrypt it somewhere else?
Dec 18 23:30:57  are you trying to make a checksum to verify the data is from the device and not some smoe trying to cheat?
Dec 18 23:31:03  That's the one I'm busy posting on
Dec 18 23:31:13  yeah, I need to encrypt and decrypt off the phone
Dec 18 23:32:04  Ok, anyone have a contact at palm I could talk to about this?  I'm getting nowhere with my one contact
Dec 18 23:32:31  send a note to chuq
Dec 18 23:37:47  lyht: I have used JSON.stringify(object);
Dec 18 23:41:00  haeffb: does the basic same thing? And I can take that string and eval it back into an object later?
Dec 18 23:41:21  yup, that's how I use JSON.*
Dec 18 23:42:12  this.controller.get('Output').innerHTML += JSON.stringify(resp) +"
";
Dec 18 23:42:33  hrm
Dec 18 23:42:40  my apptracking server script is turning out nicely
Dec 18 23:42:58  i can sort/filter the results as i wish ;D
Dec 18 23:49:52  Aha! It wasn't a problem with the object, or with Object.toJSON... it is a limitation to the Mojo.Log dealy. The string was to large for that call, so it was just showing "null"
Dec 18 23:50:48  I wonder what the limit is... how large a string can we pass to the logger.
Dec 18 23:51:52  it truncates the string
Dec 18 23:52:00  i've passed alot of info to it and it just cuts off
Dec 18 23:53:03  I think palm-log shows nothing, while using tail in putty shows a truncated string. IIRC.
Dec 18 23:53:21  i use log appid
Dec 18 23:53:54  rick_home: I have drawers in my lists....
Dec 18 23:54:03  and if i prefix my calls with something like =BC= and do  log com.mycompany.appid | grep =BC=
Dec 18 23:54:10  i only see my output,
Dec 18 23:54:40  anyone else get in on the modnation racers beta?
Dec 18 23:54:42  palm-log only shows output from one app
Dec 18 23:54:49  its like LBP meets Mario kart
Dec 18 23:57:46  interesting. So it is not a limitation with Mojo.Log.*, it is a limitation of palm-log. Interesting.
Dec 19 00:00:56  I didn't know about the log command. that is nice. However, overall I still prefer palm-log for it's cleanliness. I will just have to know that sometimes really long strings could show up as null.
Dec 19 00:10:55  did you 101 the list o drawers haeffb?
Dec 19 00:13:44  I'm having the strangest problem with virtualbox
Dec 19 00:14:12  every time I book the emulator or just virtualbox my wifi card loses internet and retains local access only
Dec 19 00:15:33  wow that's weird
Dec 19 00:16:08  Bmyers  Did haeffb get the list of drawers working!??!??!??
Dec 19 00:17:36  yes indeed they did
Dec 19 00:17:44  jfelectron also
Dec 19 00:18:06  rick_home: we rocked it!
Dec 19 00:18:35  no one else has had this issue with virtualbox?
Dec 19 00:18:45  i think there are going to post it on 101 if you want to learn the details..
Dec 19 00:18:46  I wonder if I can run everything inside a vm
Dec 19 00:18:54  lol vm->vm->vm
Dec 19 00:19:01  Tongiht., or tomorrow for sure
Dec 19 00:19:30  Prototypic: what's the first two layers?
Dec 19 00:20:44  PrototypicLaptop: never had that problem.
Dec 19 00:21:23  jfelectron  I must say, I'm impressed, that had to be tricky to set up.
Dec 19 00:21:38  Please pretty please post to webos101
Dec 19 00:21:44  and put a link on webos-internals
Dec 19 00:21:51  wow
Dec 19 00:21:52  actually...the end of it of was that it was dead simple....just had to be RIGHT
Dec 19 00:22:02  of course.
Dec 19 00:22:05  that's the tricky part.
Dec 19 00:22:20  but can you explain why the exact way you did it is _right_ ?
Dec 19 00:22:37  Yes....I understand it enough to write a tutorial
Dec 19 00:22:44  excellent!!!!
Dec 19 00:23:13  I'll make one about drawers, with drawers in lists section
Dec 19 00:23:26  any chance that you can just do a code dump someplace that I can take a look at?
Dec 19 00:23:27  I'll also generalize it and make something about widgets in lists
Dec 19 00:23:35  excellentness.
Dec 19 00:23:37  sure hold on
Dec 19 00:24:15  dijit has 2 more spammer backround apps in the catalog today
Dec 19 00:24:17  woo hoo
Dec 19 00:24:49 * rick_home is planning a series of monthly apps basedon the same framework.
Dec 19 00:25:07  not actually app spam, I can justify them.
Dec 19 00:25:14 * CTLAdvance is also planning a weekly series of apps based on the same code
Dec 19 00:25:43  what are you guys talking about spam apps?
Dec 19 00:25:49 * CTLAdvance is planning a never ending list of audible button apps that are ad supported
Dec 19 00:26:00 * rick_home is seriously considering moving my primary development coding over to phonegap.
Dec 19 00:26:22  Brighthouse labs and dijit are launching apps that are basically the same app but over and over again
Dec 19 00:27:03  which apps?
Dec 19 00:27:08  so we got a hundred localized sports apps, 50 localized food apps, and now 10 or 15 background apps that are all the same thing
Dec 19 00:27:10  XXX soccer fan
Dec 19 00:27:15  gotcha
Dec 19 00:27:15  XXX football fan
Dec 19 00:27:16  rick_home: http://www.pastie.org/749489
Dec 19 00:27:19  XXX basketball fan
Dec 19 00:27:20  I know what your talking about now
Dec 19 00:27:35  jfelectron thanks
Dec 19 00:27:45  my pleasure
Dec 19 00:30:38  rick_home: the key was drawers=this.controller.document.getElementsByName("listDrawer");
Dec 19 00:30:38      curDrawer=drawers[event.index];
Dec 19 00:30:38      curDrawer.mojo.toggleState();
Dec 19 00:31:03  simply flipping the drawer model property doesn't work for whatever reason
Dec 19 00:31:28  that's very very very clever.
Dec 19 00:31:55  it was an epiphany while I was getting cat litter last night :)
Dec 19 00:32:20  arent epiphany's great
Dec 19 00:32:25  ever had one while you slept?
Dec 19 00:32:42  howdy all!
Dec 19 00:32:47  i have. usually useless and false though.
Dec 19 00:32:47  yes...though sometimes its  a struggle to remember once you wake up
Dec 19 00:33:06  that's true...high false positive rate
Dec 19 00:33:07  lol
Dec 19 00:33:38  false positives are better than tunnel vision tho.
Dec 19 00:33:55  yes....they keep the hamster wheel going
Dec 19 00:34:15  they keep the vision alive
Dec 19 00:34:50  sleeping epiphanies generally turn out to have nothing whatsoever to do with the problems you're struggling with.
Dec 19 00:35:24  "And so, I figured out how to cause the cat to help me slice cheese with the broom"
Dec 19 00:35:52  lol...but it could be metaphorical
Dec 19 00:35:55  the encoding is unclear
Dec 19 00:36:07  mine usually occur in the shower
Dec 19 00:36:19  and the freaking endless loop dreams.  arrrgghhh
Dec 19 00:36:22  also a very good place
Dec 19 00:36:41  and the ones where you're trying to find the break point and debugger on your wife, or child, or cat.
Dec 19 00:36:51  rofl
Dec 19 00:37:15  if ONLY....
Dec 19 00:37:41  rofl
Dec 19 00:37:49  OK folks...I gtg...will have tutororial up tonight or tomorrow
Dec 19 00:37:52  my USEFUL epiphanies tend to come while walking the dog.    I have taken to carrying a little digital recorder when walking the dog so that I can remember when I get back to my desk.
Dec 19 00:38:07  women would be so much easier if you could place breakpoints
Dec 19 00:38:16  and enable debuggers.
Dec 19 00:38:28  remove this event-watcher.
Dec 19 00:38:46  guys, you have to understand the programming language before you can debug code ...
Dec 19 00:39:00  which is why I call those frustration dreams.
Dec 19 00:40:11  btw is ares based on bespib?
Dec 19 00:40:26  *bespin
Dec 19 00:40:26  of course, the fact that women run on four-state logic circuits makes it harder.
Dec 19 00:40:28  https://bespin.mozilla.com/
Dec 19 00:40:36  yes,  ares is an implementation of bespin
Dec 19 00:40:44  which makes perfect sense considering....
Dec 19 00:40:55  PrototypicLaptop: I'd have to guess yes for that one
Dec 19 00:40:57  totally impressive use of it.
Dec 19 00:41:00  ares uses Bespin server and Bespin edtior client side
Dec 19 00:41:07  that would be editor
Dec 19 00:41:34  nodnod and ares implementation of version control is directly from bespin server
Dec 19 00:41:41  i cant get my job to use bespin :( so im stuck with an oldschool syntaxhilighter
Dec 19 00:42:28  im so going to show them ares and be like see... here's what it can do
Dec 19 00:42:38  note limitations tho
Dec 19 00:42:54  anyone up for looking at some code?  can't figure out how to get some data to show up....
Dec 19 00:44:37  Pastbin away LoneStar34
Dec 19 00:44:58  too bad ares doesnt work from my pre browser lol
Dec 19 00:46:16  I'm a core dev on Ares if you guys have any questions
Dec 19 00:46:37  sjmiles  welcome !!!
Dec 19 00:46:42  ty
Dec 19 00:46:50  sjmiles, great work I bow to you
Dec 19 00:47:04  totally got me over my webos hump
Dec 19 00:47:15  I was having a hell of a time working with aptana
Dec 19 00:47:22  sjmiles: timeline for git support?
Dec 19 00:47:24  that's great, thx PrototypicLaptop
Dec 19 00:47:26  sjmiles Wish there was some way to back-port existing apps into ares.
Dec 19 00:47:33  I'm specifically prohibited from talking about git
Dec 19 00:47:42  so, you can actually mix old and new apps
Dec 19 00:47:42  sjmiles: no worries, thanks.
Dec 19 00:47:46  sorry
Dec 19 00:47:52  are there plans for intellisense?
Dec 19 00:47:54  not from talking about GIT, from talking about timeline
Dec 19 00:48:03  sjmiles: understood
Dec 19 00:48:04  good to know sjmiles
Dec 19 00:48:09  I'm loopy from many hours getting the beta ready
Dec 19 00:48:14  I'll bet.
Dec 19 00:48:18  we've heard the many cries for GIT so there is a ticket for it
Dec 19 00:48:29  intellisense is also much requested
Dec 19 00:48:29  rick_home: http://pastebin.com/d16d9d0dc
Dec 19 00:48:51  omg intellisense would practically build my apps for me.
Dec 19 00:49:42  so ignoring timeline for a moment, in wanting to move an app into ares, is the internal structure of the data structure that holds the widget defs for the scenes in an app secret or open?
Dec 19 00:50:04  yea, i was wondering how
Dec 19 00:50:09  the actual structure is plain json ... an early version had that exposed in an editor
Dec 19 00:50:17  but it was too easy to mess it up and trash your design
Dec 19 00:50:22  because I would think that it would be possible for someone (like my buddy john) to create an ares widget file from our existing app.
Dec 19 00:50:47  without having to completely re-create the darned scenes.
Dec 19 00:51:14  you can download the chrome-js file, it's designed to be fairly straightforward
Dec 19 00:51:26  not that the core team should do that, because after all, MOST new apps will just be created in ares directly
Dec 19 00:51:36  good to know
Dec 19 00:52:07  know a good public svn server that we can use with it for the time being instead of setting up our own?
Dec 19 00:52:10  there is no documentation on that right now ... yes, we don't want to dilute people learning the Mojo Api itself, so we didn't make a big deal about the Ares layer
Dec 19 00:52:49  assembla offers free svn
Dec 19 00:53:12  that's ssh key driven PrototypicLaptop???
Dec 19 00:53:21  because ares does key only, no login
Dec 19 00:53:21  fwiw, it true you cannot import HTML into the Ares designer, but you can mix HTML and designed chrome
Dec 19 00:53:46  as I recall we had success with unfuddle during testing
Dec 19 00:53:57  some alpha testers used unfuddle
Dec 19 00:54:01  sjmiles -- in the ares interface, or after downloading the resulting app...
Dec 19 00:54:30  im not sure
Dec 19 00:55:47  if you have scene 'main' and you make main-scene.html like so http://pastebin.com/mb0e7ecf
Dec 19 00:56:05  your main-chrome.js widgets will go into the space marked kind='main'
Dec 19 00:56:29  ahem, the 'opus' thing is left-over project name that should have been changed to 'Ares'
Dec 19 00:57:10 * rwhitby still wonders about giving an ssh private key to ares
Dec 19 00:57:23  I don't think that's exactly what you were asking, but I wanted to let you guys know about that
Dec 19 00:57:33  sjmiles: any way it can do authentication forwarding from the client machine?  (probably a hard thing to do)
Dec 19 00:57:44  there isn't a way right now to import existing widgets from HTML into the designer
Dec 19 00:58:09  rwhitby: sorry, I don't know about that .. post a question on the forum, and I'll make sure the right eyes see it
Dec 19 00:58:30  sjmiles: thanks
Dec 19 00:59:06  also if you want to mix chrome stuff into an existing project you have to add Ares.setupSceneAssistant(this); in setup and Ares.cleanupSceneAssistant(this); into cleanup
Dec 19 00:59:11 <_ivanst_> has anyone used DownloadManager?
Dec 19 00:59:26  this is the same code you can see in the sampleApp or any Ares-made app
Dec 19 01:00:02 <_ivanst_> or a better question: is there any place where i could see a list of possible values for completionCode parameter of the upload callback
Dec 19 01:00:22  (sorry for talking too much) you also have to copy in an ares.js file
Dec 19 01:02:48  sjmiles  really glad you guys got jslint integration.
Dec 19 01:03:20  honestly, it was last minute, which is why it's not integrated very well ... but we all just thought it would be a major pain reducer
Dec 19 01:03:20  it would be wonderful if you could get jsbeautifier integration as well.  I end up pasting in -- ugly-- code sometimes,  etc.
Dec 19 01:03:40  orry?
Dec 19 01:04:11  rick_home: ok, noted
Dec 19 01:06:25  sjmiles  ok, so I have it generate a key
Dec 19 01:06:42  and in Chrome, at least, I can not seem to select the text to paste into a hosting server.
Dec 19 01:06:49  Am I supposed to write it down with a pen?????
Dec 19 01:07:31  sounds like a simple screw up, sorry
Dec 19 01:08:15  yeah, that's pretty bad
Dec 19 01:08:55  rick_home: if you can do 'inspect element' you can copy the text out of the DOM itself
Dec 19 01:08:57  dont think you need to reference that key anywhere else - just the keychain password. (neither myself nor sjmiles did the VCS stuff)
Dec 19 01:09:38  uh
Dec 19 01:09:40  no.
Dec 19 01:09:44  I don't think it is the same as the ssh keypair you use to avoid having to log into the remote server explicitly
Dec 19 01:09:45  inspect element works.
Dec 19 01:10:01  cause you still have to use user/pw/keychain pw for all vcs stuff moving forward
Dec 19 01:12:29  I can inspect it, but once I do, I don't see how to copy out of the inspector.
Dec 19 01:12:38  as I recall it is used to secure your credentials on the ares server
Dec 19 01:12:48  but again, I am not 100% sure, sorry
Dec 19 01:13:05  rick_home: double click the text in the inspector
Dec 19 01:14:02  sjmiles  that works, thanks
Dec 19 01:14:27  mmcnulty  you need to put the public key into the repository server for the svn or ares going there with the private key doesn't do much good.  :-)
Dec 19 01:15:19  yeah, understood, and I've used svn setups that required that. But I am recalling that this is a key that isn't used in that way, but rather locally within bespin/ares. but feel free to check it out.
Dec 19 01:19:08  tried it with and without mmcnulty  it needed the public key on the hosting repository
Dec 19 01:19:19  all better now tho.
Dec 19 01:19:20  :-)
Dec 19 01:19:22  awesome
Dec 19 01:19:39  we'll file a ticket to make that key dialog selectable
Dec 19 01:20:06  didn't know that I needed to doubleclick in inspector to select and copy, that was worth tonights IRC session.  It's odd how the sharp corners of software you use every day still reach out and bite you
Dec 19 01:22:20  now, I need a faster computer.
Dec 19 01:22:43  this poor dual core just isn't enough ooomph.  I drop an 800 line js file into bespin and it's --slow--
Dec 19 01:23:03  even in chrome?
Dec 19 01:23:32  boot into chromeos and dev from there
Dec 19 01:23:53  even in chrome
Dec 19 01:25:05  oh, that's right.  wrong computer.  This one needs a brain upgrade.  1.5 gig, 3 GHz pentium 4 single core.  :-/
Dec 19 01:25:30  I need to swap the motherboard over christmas on this one.
Dec 19 01:25:35  does ares work in chromeos? you'd prob have to hack the novacom drivers onto it
Dec 19 01:25:44  to get full functionality
Dec 19 01:25:49  im sure it doesnt
Dec 19 01:26:02  ares will work.  Ares integration to the device won't.
Dec 19 01:26:08  and i think it only runs of a small set of hardware
Dec 19 01:26:13  yeah, that would have been my assumption
Dec 19 01:26:41  does it support java yet? chrome on mac does not which throws us for a loop
Dec 19 01:26:58  if it does, then you'd prob just have to get the linux novacom drivers on there to make it all work
Dec 19 01:32:56  wtf, no favicon.ico support in webos
Dec 19 01:33:00 * PrototypicLaptop frowns
Dec 19 01:33:52  oops wrong card
Dec 19 01:35:25  ok, new asus motherboard and amd quad core, and 4 gig of ram  $180 plus freight.  Right.  So, ares costs $180.  :-)
Dec 19 01:36:11  does ares work if I haven't installed the sdk on that machine?  Do I need to have installed the sdk to get novacom?
Dec 19 01:36:49  webos doctor installs novacom first, I think. so you could get doctor running and then not actually doctor your phone
Dec 19 01:37:00  rick_home:  all that for $180?
Dec 19 01:37:54  but the sdk with the emulator really has the best experience, esp for logging and debugging
Dec 19 01:38:59  you cannot run apps w/ ares without the sdk
Dec 19 01:39:14  it doesn't run in the browser
Dec 19 01:39:32  you can preview basic stuff in the browser
Dec 19 01:39:38  just not use phone services, obviously
Dec 19 01:40:02  the only part of the sdk strictly required to run apps from ares on the device is novacom, which is also part of webos doctor
Dec 19 01:40:37  I have to bounce, thanks for using Ares! I will be back another time (soon).
Dec 19 01:40:39  but the emulator is set up better for development, in ways that would make a device slow
Dec 19 01:40:57  but it lacks some features for sure
Dec 19 01:40:57  hopefully this is yet another reason for Palm to release the novacomd drivers separately from other stuff ...
Dec 19 01:41:12  I can look into that for you
Dec 19 01:41:12  nodnodnod
Dec 19 01:41:27  what would be nice wuld be if ares had a link to a downloadable set of novacom drivers
Dec 19 01:41:30  :-)
Dec 19 01:41:38  yep, for windows, mac and linux
Dec 19 01:41:46  I'll see what I can do.
Dec 19 01:42:09  more than kind of you
Dec 19 01:43:09  I wonder..
Dec 19 01:43:19  hehe umm
Dec 19 01:43:46  opening ares on the device causes lag....
Dec 19 01:44:19  in app startup you mean
Dec 19 01:45:05  no I mean opening ares in the browser on the device heh
Dec 19 01:45:11  lol
Dec 19 01:45:28  it hasn't actually opened yet tho but its trying
Dec 19 01:45:29  pretty sure that doesn't quite work
Dec 19 01:45:44  it gets to a certain point and the mojo in ares causes some weirdness and it tries over and over
Dec 19 01:46:25  of course drag and drop doesn't work in a phone interface as it is interpreted as a drag, so we'd have to figure out some way around that. And well all the obvious UX problems
Dec 19 01:47:59  yeh its not gonna load no matter how hard it tries
Dec 19 01:48:20  bespin's going to have issues too
Dec 19 01:48:37  ok, I gotta bounce as well. see you all soon
Dec 19 01:48:42  cya
Dec 19 02:36:46  arg
Dec 19 02:36:50  I hate this computer
Dec 19 02:37:52  i hate windows vista
Dec 19 02:39:05  I hate it too
Dec 19 02:39:10  Win7 FTW
Dec 19 02:40:06  yeah, will install it soon
Dec 19 02:48:54  So i'm using a HTML5 db, prefixing the dbname with ext: like the docs says and for less than 500k of data i'm getting: there was not enough remaining storage space, or the storage quota was reached and the user declined to allow more space, in the emulator -- any thoughts?
Dec 19 02:53:48  Joe: you might want to pastebin some code. sounds like something is not right..
Dec 19 02:56:48  Ugh why you ranking on windows vista...
Dec 19 02:57:39  I am not saying its better than 7 but come on, vista was way better than xp, and in vista blue screens are non existant... sheesh... windows 7 takes the vista core and builds greatly on it
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 19 02:59:56 2009