**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 28 02:59:57 2009 Dec 28 03:00:49 hey rick, roy Dec 28 03:01:18 hey haeffb Dec 28 03:01:22 Rick_work: why doesn't textfield styling work in a dialog? don't get the white background in a textfield... Dec 28 03:01:44 hey guys Dec 28 03:02:33 hrm Dec 28 03:02:35 jenp Dec 28 03:02:40 i just found out something interesting Dec 28 03:02:45 hi haeffb Dec 28 03:03:02 every BMW Z4 is made in the US (engine is made in Germany tho) Dec 28 03:03:09 ugh ...i'm having the worst time with getting a background to work in css Dec 28 03:04:40 well everyone is back to hacking after the holidays i c Dec 28 03:04:56 hack attack Dec 28 03:06:53 haeffb I've never used a text field in a dialog, I don't know. Dec 28 03:06:59 Is the dialog inspectable? Dec 28 03:07:47 haven't looked yet. working on more critical stuff at the moment. just wondering if anyone knew Dec 28 03:07:59 will let u know if I discover anything Dec 28 03:15:06 sql causes some datatype issues... Dec 28 03:22:08 so I've got vehicle.label, vehicle.mileage and vehicle.rate pulled from SQL as TEXT, INTEGER, REAL Dec 28 03:22:49 can't use vehicle.mileage or vehicle.rate as modelProperty of textfield, unless I use vehicle.mileage +"" and vehicle.rate + "" Dec 28 03:22:54 wtf? Dec 28 03:24:08 ugh sometimes i feel so stupid...i forgot to reference my style sheet...which is why nothing i did worked Dec 28 03:25:25 haeffb: You can also convert from an integer to a string by using parseFloat or parseInt Dec 28 03:26:26 ok, but why should I not be able to use an integer or real as modelproperty of textfield???? !!! ??? Dec 28 03:26:41 javascript is a dynamically typed language? Dec 28 03:30:24 what's the best way to do a splash screen? Dec 28 03:31:07 what do you want it to do? Dec 28 03:31:25 show a screen for about 10 sec then launch my main page Dec 28 03:34:52 this.timeoutStartID = this.controller.window.setTimeout(this.timeToEvent.bind(this), 1000*60); Dec 28 03:35:09 thanks haeffb! Dec 28 03:35:12 calls this.timeToEvent in 60 sec Dec 28 03:35:44 if (this.timeoutStartID) {this.controller.window.clearTimeout(this.timeoutStartID);} Dec 28 03:36:03 clears the timer Dec 28 03:36:16 awesome Dec 28 03:37:14 so, you can push a splash scene from stageAssistant, and in it's activate() set the timer to call a function to push the next scene Dec 28 03:37:31 oh that's perfect! Dec 28 03:38:15 or, better use swapScene so your splash scene isn't hanging around Dec 28 03:38:31 kk Dec 28 03:53:54 ya know...it is getting awfully close to the end of the year...any word on the release of the app catalog stuff? Dec 28 03:54:42 what app catalog stuff Dec 28 03:54:46 webOSroundup: wanna do a review Dec 28 03:54:46 ? Dec 28 03:55:06 coming out of beta...making it so that you can sell your apps outside of the catalog, etc. Dec 28 03:55:27 sure, I am always up for reviews Dec 28 03:56:09 I just know that they planned on releasing the app catalog for real by the end of the year Dec 28 03:56:20 ggothca Dec 28 03:56:22 along with some handy dandy tools Dec 28 03:57:00 picture tweet Dec 28 03:57:05 its in the app catalog Dec 28 03:57:12 can you email me the IPK? Dec 28 03:57:28 give me a few Dec 28 03:57:32 no rush Dec 28 03:57:41 can't get to it till next week at the earliest Dec 28 03:59:12 ok Dec 28 04:01:19 webOSroundup: whats your email Dec 28 04:01:46 david@webosroundup.com Dec 28 04:02:38 sent Dec 28 04:02:52 cool Dec 28 04:02:55 thanks Dec 28 04:04:51 haeffe Dec 28 04:06:05 yo Dec 28 04:06:21 aren't you suppose to be sleeping? Dec 28 04:06:32 yes, past my bedtime Dec 28 04:06:49 i was just seeing if you got your not a number REAL worked out Dec 28 04:07:22 but it can wait till tomorrow Dec 28 04:07:31 I think so...? Dec 28 04:07:52 i was just getting caught up. i was away for a bit Dec 28 04:08:40 I am able to add & edit vehicles. Just was frustrating that it wasn't working when trying to use INTEGERs & REALs as textfield .value Dec 28 04:09:01 u have what should be a mostly working version Dec 28 04:09:34 i was trying to unpack it Dec 28 04:11:23 ha. thought you'd have had a batch file to do that by now Dec 28 04:11:37 na, 7zip opens it Dec 28 04:13:52 nice Dec 28 04:13:58 ok. let me know if you have issues with the UI. eventually planning to allow edit of category/vehicles from the main data entry screen w/o going thru prefs Dec 28 04:14:29 like: Business/Personal/edit in the list selector Dec 28 04:14:44 u heading out? Dec 28 04:15:03 yeah, gotta get some z's. Back to the real job tomorrow. Dec 28 04:15:12 ew... Dec 28 04:15:19 ya, no shit Dec 28 04:15:23 ok i c u l8r then Dec 28 04:15:28 adioa Dec 28 04:15:29 s Dec 28 04:15:39 via con wavos.. Dec 28 04:16:44 grrr the FILEPICKER slows down my app Dec 28 04:17:16 this is becoming a pain Dec 28 04:18:24 o, heaffe, i could really move you along on this project Dec 28 04:18:43 Bmyers: wsup Dec 28 04:18:59 hey atlanta, nice holiday? Dec 28 04:19:42 yessir Dec 28 04:19:44 and yourself Dec 28 04:19:45 ? Dec 28 04:19:57 lotza all things good.. Dec 28 04:21:41 Still trying to size the webview window... Dec 28 04:27:12 Doc: No! really? Dec 28 04:28:32 what happens when you put it in another div and size that? Dec 28 04:33:35 hi there Dec 28 04:36:27 Is there anybody here?? Dec 28 04:36:52 hello propri Dec 28 04:37:10 hello Bmyers Dec 28 04:37:39 sorry to bother you but i need help Dec 28 04:40:02 is have some question regarding Web OS kernel Dec 28 04:40:17 Can anybody help me? Dec 28 04:40:23 try #webos-internals Dec 28 04:41:02 this is more for programming within the sdk Dec 28 04:41:40 thank you Dec 28 04:41:55 you are welcome Dec 28 04:44:04 Bmyers: Putting it into another div doesn't do crap Dec 28 04:44:15 It's irritating the hell out of me Dec 28 05:25:58 Bmyers is Doc still trying to resize a web widget? Dec 28 05:50:02 Rick: it seems so Dec 28 08:32:00 can anyone her maybe help me understand why im getting this error? Dec 28 08:32:02 http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4680/2009122712619851621280x.png Dec 28 08:32:04 this is what i see Dec 28 08:32:12 im tethered and logged into the pre Dec 28 08:32:29 yet, PrewareInstaller says it cant find novacom Dec 28 08:32:36 im using jre 6 Dec 28 08:32:43 on arch linux Dec 28 08:32:46 im not sure what the deal is Dec 28 11:52:43 Is there a way to display the received/sent times for all text messages? I really miss that both the date and time vanish for older messages in the thread... Dec 28 12:08:11 damada there is a patch for it Dec 28 12:22:39 Maybe that's the new webos catchphrase Dec 28 12:22:43 kinda like "There's an app for that!" Dec 28 12:22:47 ;> Dec 28 12:23:50 mobgod: yeah, I thought so... problem is, I am unable to get novacomd up and running. I am using a 32bit rpm-base Linux distro, and converting the deb to rpm worked nicely, as did installing it. Dec 28 12:24:37 as soon as I plug the pre (in dev mode and just charge, of course) I get rx-error messages over and over: Dec 28 12:27:56 http://pastebin.com/m4732c0e5 Dec 28 12:33:19 Secondly, is there also a patch for showing all events (i.e. including allday events without associated times) in the month view of the calender? They only appear in the daily or weekly agenda view... Dec 28 12:46:07 damada: are you running Preware? Look in the Patches section. Dec 28 12:46:47 rwhitby: I wish I could... Problem is, I cannot get novacomd up and running, see http://pastebin.com/m4732c0e5 Dec 28 12:47:14 heya Dec 28 12:47:15 damada: use a supported OS then Dec 28 12:47:20 I am beginning to think I will have to ask some colleague to use a windows box ... Dec 28 12:47:49 rwhitby: well, I really thought a recent Linux OS is a supported OS for a Linux based smartphone :) Dec 28 12:47:52 1020 downloads for moo already! seems amazing Dec 28 12:48:11 damada: problems? Dec 28 12:48:11 damada: Ubuntu works fine apparently - which recent Linux OS are you using? Dec 28 12:48:21 rwhitby: Mandriva 2010.0 Dec 28 12:48:28 damada: do you expect Palm to waste time support 1000 different Linux versions? Dec 28 12:48:49 rwhitby: installing novacom is not the problem, but it seems unable to connect to the phone. Dec 28 12:49:11 rwhitby: no, but recent libusb version should be supported, imho Dec 28 12:49:25 damada: when you can prove that it doesn't work on one of the supported Linux OS's .... Dec 28 12:50:12 I really don't understand why people just don't use the right tool for the job, and treat operating systems as anything more than just a tool ... Dec 28 12:50:24 but then, I doubt the issue is my libusb version... no offense meant, rwhitby. I am just a little disappointed Dec 28 12:50:37 what is the actual problem? is novacom running? Dec 28 12:51:04 damada: no offence taken - I'm just saying that you can save yourself a whole lot of hassle by just taking the path of least resistance and using a supported OS for this job ... Dec 28 12:51:08 rwhitby: you will have to understand that it is not really "userfriendly" to have to switch an OS just for a USB driver :) I am doing pretty much everything with Mandriva. Dec 28 12:51:37 rwhitby: I am thinking about installing Ubuntu in a vbox image :) Dec 28 12:51:45 damada: that's what I use. Dec 28 12:51:51 both my ubuntu 9.10 32bit and 9.04 64bit have no problems Dec 28 12:52:29 swisstomcat: see http://pastebin.com/m4732c0e5 I can install and run all the apps, and they do find the phone, but there are connection issues that are strange Dec 28 12:52:49 damada: I bet you've spent far more time and effort on this already than it would have taken to install ubuntu in vbox. Presumably you already have vbox installed for the Palm SDK emulator ... Dec 28 12:52:56 * prototypic cries, just got a crack in my pre screen Dec 28 12:53:38 rwhitby: true :) I am just not the guy to easily give up on something. +9 yrs of Linux is teaching a lesson ;) Dec 28 12:53:54 damada: how many different versions of Linux do you think Palm should support? Should they support Minix 1.0 ? Dec 28 12:55:41 rwhitby: as I said: I am not expecting full pampering, but both Fedora and Mandriva (which is very close to Fedora) are mainstream distributions, and the focus on Ubuntu seems a little strange to me. I foresay that this connection issue will likely also appear on Debian based system sooner or later. So maybe it never hurts to know in advance, or am I mistaken? Dec 28 12:56:17 Why is the choice of Ubuntu strange? Dec 28 12:57:06 and there are many "mainstream" Linux distributions - I sure hope Palm is not expending money supporting more than 1. Dec 28 12:57:14 because is so exclusive. That is strange, considering the otherwise great choice of platforms for the SDK: Windows and MacOS. And the preware installers are also perfectly platform independent Dec 28 12:57:24 did you see this, damada? http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Installing_the_Palm_webOS_SDK_on_Mandriva_Linux Dec 28 12:57:55 swisstomcat: not yet, let me check! Thanks in advance for that helpful reply! Dec 28 12:57:55 damada: it's a matter of return on investment. a company cannot support 15 different linux distributions just cause some random developers uses them Dec 28 12:58:45 damada: from a blog post on the palm developer network: http://pdnblog.palm.com/2009/11/mojo-sdk-131-now-available-featuring-pixi-emulator-support-and-docs-enhancements/ Dec 28 12:58:45 In this age of simple virtualisation, I simply don't understand why people don't just install the supported OS and get on with the task at hand ... Dec 28 13:00:01 rwhitby: let's finish this pointless argument :) I just have the feeling it might be a good idea to check why this driver causes issues. The basis for most Linux distros is pretty much the same, after all. It's not that Ubuntu and Redhat/Fedora/Mandriva/OpenSUSE are totally different OS, or do you disagree? Dec 28 13:00:12 I personally run 5 different OS's on this laptop, all at once, to achieve what I need to achieve. 3 are Linux-based, 1 is BSD-based, 1 is windows-based. Dec 28 13:00:39 damada: if that was the case, then you wouldn't be having any problems ;-) Dec 28 13:02:15 rwhitby: you and me, we both don't know what the cause of the issue is. Do you think the novacom driver sees "oh, not an ubuntu system? Let's throw weird errors!"? But nevermind, I will find a solution, or not. Dec 28 13:02:58 damada: I agree we don't know the cause of the problem. So the options are to focus on the problem, or to just not have the problem in the first place. I usually choose the latter ;-) Dec 28 13:03:02 swisstomcat: I have read that article already. I have no issue converting and installing the driver, but the connection to the phone is a problem. It seems that packages are dropped. Dec 28 13:03:45 I mean is your end goal to connect to the phone, or is your goal to make novacomd run on yet another version of Linux? Dec 28 13:04:23 and that exaclty is not covered. Googling for the error only shows a handful of results: http://tinyurl.com/ya5ryo6 Dec 28 13:05:57 rwhitby: personally, all I want is get preware up and running. But yes, I also feel commited to the Linux community, and I'd like to find a solution which helps others in the same situation. After all, I helps to make the Pre community larger and more robust if everyone feels comfy with their prefered OS :) Dec 28 13:06:40 damada: install ubuntu 9.10 in a vbox while you search for a solution Dec 28 13:06:42 see that's the problem - an OS is just a tool. There is no need to have a preferred OS - just use the OS which works for the task at hand ... Dec 28 13:06:58 * swisstomcat agrees Dec 28 13:07:38 rwhitby: very philosophical. but any geek has a preferred OS. That's a fact and the driving force of the Linux community, I think Dec 28 13:07:41 * rwhitby used 3 OS's in the last hour to gather the information to write http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Network_Management Dec 28 13:08:29 damada: any geek has a preferred user interface - I do too. that doesn't mean you need to only use that one OS that happens to be the one driving your user interface for all other tasks ... Dec 28 13:08:57 * damada doesn't want to have to use a different OS for every task :) Dec 28 13:09:18 you often won't have the choice - as is the case here it seems ... Dec 28 13:10:02 I am a fan of platform independence because it doesn't force a certain OS on me. I am not easily giving up on that major advantage. Dec 28 13:10:03 you can choose to make the square peg fit into the round hole, or you can just install a square hole ... Dec 28 13:10:32 I am a fan of platform irrelevance. Dec 28 13:10:34 I have the feeling, that both of us have their point, rwhitby :) Dec 28 13:11:14 you don't have platform independence - you seem to be dependent on mandriva ;-) Dec 28 13:12:07 if it really satisfies you to win this argument, then be it that way Dec 28 13:12:18 * damada searches for a solution secretly, then Dec 28 13:12:20 damada: but anyway, to install Preware you do need to get a novacom connection. there is no other way Dec 28 13:12:27 damada: download a finished ubuntu image: http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=virtualbox.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloads.sourceforge.net%2Fvirtualboximage%2Fubuntu-9.04-x86.7z Dec 28 13:12:44 swisstomcat: again a helpful comment. Thanks a million times! Dec 28 13:12:53 (unless you know of another way to get a command line on the Pre, in which case you can use http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap instead of the stand-alone installer. Dec 28 13:13:31 damada: after you install the sdk and novacom and finally have preware, you can delete it again :) Dec 28 13:13:55 the image i mean .. no one will know that you used ubuntu Dec 28 13:14:04 swisstomcat: indeed - once you have sshd installed there is no more need for novacom Dec 28 13:15:07 swisstomcat: ;) yeah, please don't tell anyone :D Dec 28 13:16:20 damada: if you virtualise it, it won't infect your madriva installation ;-) Dec 28 13:16:36 :) Dec 28 13:18:25 hmm - does anyone know of a VPN client for webOS? I'm working on getting OpenVPN to work on the Pre (it works fine on the command line using optware), but I need to know how to get com.palm.netroute to take additionalIfRoutes, and the wifi driver doesn't handle that option but an existing VPN client probably does. Dec 28 13:18:56 no cisco vpn client available anywhere yet, for example? Dec 28 13:19:09 not that i heard of Dec 28 13:33:57 damada: good luck with the Preware install - once you get a novacom connection, don't hesitate to ping me if you have any other problems with the stand-alone installer or the bootstrap script. Just note that the stand-alone installer is probably the least robust of the installation methods, especially on Linux, due to the differences in Java implementations between distros. Dec 28 13:35:19 rwhitby: thanks a lot! Will do so! Dec 28 13:36:18 if you're a linux user, just use the preware-bootstrap script I linked - it's the simplest method for a command line user. Dec 28 13:37:00 one of these days I'm going to incorporate it into the meta-doctor, so I can have preware already installed each time I doctor my development Pre Dec 28 13:37:08 How do I use it? Just hook the phone in dev mode to USB and run the script (as root)? Does it open a shell on teh Pre? Dec 28 13:37:25 you run the script on the Pre as root Dec 28 13:37:41 you need to get a novaterm connection to the pre first Dec 28 13:38:09 OK, so either way, I need novacom up and running... Dec 28 13:38:48 I just give Mandriva a last try with a new kernel while I setup my Ubuntu vbox image Dec 28 13:39:07 will report if it worked! Thanks a lot, rwhitby and swisstomcat! Dec 28 13:39:36 you'll like preware .. it's a great tool Dec 28 13:39:46 too late ... Dec 28 13:42:14 i put my app on precentral yesterday and it already has 1020 downloads .. quite amazing Dec 28 13:46:12 I am having difficulty removing patches after reset Dec 28 13:46:31 with EPR? Dec 28 13:47:44 Did epr, did webosDoctor. Didn't remove theme/patches bef Dr Dec 28 13:48:26 Now no patches shown in Preware, but some active Dec 28 13:48:58 Didn't realise had to epr before reset Dec 28 13:51:49 fastnloud: webosdoctor reflashes the entire OS - there cannot be any patches in place after that Dec 28 13:53:10 Rwhitbv: that's what I expected. Had to restore palm prof aft rst Dec 28 13:53:32 Bits if theme and some patches still there Dec 28 13:55:04 swisstomcat: what's the username and password for the ubuntu image? Dec 28 13:55:48 and JFYI: new kernel did not help to solve the rx-error issue on Mandriva. Dec 28 13:55:48 one sec Dec 28 13:56:21 (username/password): ubuntu/reverse Dec 28 13:56:35 http://virtualbox.wordpress.com/images/ubuntu/ Dec 28 13:56:42 yep, works nicely! thanks! Dec 28 13:59:32 OK, have to leave for a couple hours and look forward to trying it out then! Dec 28 14:00:04 good luck Dec 28 14:18:59 i'm looking at the sylematters app to find out more about scrims/spinners Dec 28 14:19:10 in the source they have : this.scrim = Mojo.View.createScrim Dec 28 14:19:32 i search for Mojo.View.createScrim in the palm docs and find nothing Dec 28 14:19:49 my question is WTF? Dec 28 14:31:44 hmm Dec 28 14:32:01 let me look in my sources Dec 28 14:32:48 i am trying to do both a scrim and a spinner Dec 28 14:37:09 Dec 28 14:38:02 ok, with u so far Dec 28 14:38:42 this.controller.setupWidget("search_divSpinner", { spinnerSize : "large" }, { spinning : true } ); Dec 28 14:39:36 and later Dec 28 14:39:38 $("search_divScrim").show(); Dec 28 14:40:11 and Dec 28 14:40:14 $("search_divScrim").hide(); Dec 28 14:40:48 and thats it? Dec 28 14:41:12 think so Dec 28 14:41:26 the scrim will hide everything behind it Dec 28 14:41:32 and show the spinning spinner Dec 28 14:42:49 i'll give it a whack.. thx! Dec 28 14:53:37 with that approach, does the spinner always spin you just cant see it sometimes? Dec 28 14:54:24 yeah, so to speak Dec 28 14:54:32 the spinner is probably an animated image Dec 28 14:54:39 is that bad? Dec 28 14:54:48 don't think so Dec 28 14:55:30 if the div is hidden, then the spinner won't be displayed Dec 28 14:56:10 right but is it not still spinning off in mojo hidden land, burning up cycles? Dec 28 14:56:39 i don't think so since it's probably an animated image Dec 28 14:56:54 but that's just an educated guess Dec 28 14:57:03 yeah, just curious... Dec 28 14:57:19 have you tried the methods start,stop, toggle? Dec 28 14:57:19 and a hidden animated image shouldn't use resources Dec 28 14:57:32 for the spinner? Dec 28 14:58:57 http://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Widget.html#.Spinner Dec 28 14:59:49 didn't try that Dec 28 15:00:05 you could probably stop it before hiding ... Dec 28 15:00:31 your method works and seems easier too. just trying to understand the sdk... Dec 28 15:01:10 maybe for a full screen scrim/spinner it all the same Dec 28 15:03:31 i have this method from the book "practical webos projects" Dec 28 15:05:46 really? i've never heard of that book Dec 28 15:05:57 it just came out .. good stuff Dec 28 15:06:15 written by anyone we know? Dec 28 15:06:15 http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430226749 Dec 28 15:06:34 i've seen posts of him in the palm developer forums Dec 28 15:07:33 is there a webos for dummies yet? :) Dec 28 15:08:05 did u get the ebook or did you have them kill a tree? Dec 28 15:08:13 ebook .. pdf Dec 28 15:08:24 since i'm in europe anyway Dec 28 15:09:26 what time is it there? Dec 28 15:10:43 4pm Dec 28 15:11:11 what time is sunset? Dec 28 15:12:03 very soon Dec 28 15:12:21 there's a "palm pre for dummies" :) Dec 28 15:12:51 i was in holland in the summer, sunset was at like 10:30pm.. it was weird for us.. Dec 28 15:13:23 sweden is even stranger in the summer Dec 28 15:13:35 it doesn't really get dark at all Dec 28 15:14:03 hi sugardave.. Dec 28 15:14:49 thanks for the link to the book. Dec 28 15:14:53 i might try that one.. Dec 28 15:15:19 pdf is the only way to go for stuff like this. searchable.. Dec 28 15:15:33 it's pretty good .. several projects Dec 28 15:15:36 even a game Dec 28 15:15:42 oooo oohh Dec 28 15:16:15 hi lonestar Dec 28 15:16:35 with canvas and all Dec 28 15:16:36 hows the big state doing this morn'n? Dec 28 15:16:52 canvas is still kindof voodoo for me.. Dec 28 15:17:14 i use it, but i dont really know how it works.. Dec 28 15:17:43 mORNING folks! Dec 28 15:48:24 * ivanst pokes LoneStar34 in the eye Dec 28 15:48:46 ouch that hurt! Dec 28 15:48:53 you don't need both of them anyway Dec 28 15:49:04 yeah, you are right Dec 28 15:49:07 binocular vision is overrated Dec 28 15:49:22 how where your holidays? Dec 28 15:50:24 not sure really... Dec 28 15:52:27 LoneStar34: check your /msgs for the details :D Dec 28 16:23:18 . Dec 28 16:23:23 anyone know where i can find documentation for what media, and audio formats are supported by WebOS? Dec 28 16:24:14 probably here: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1741 Dec 28 16:24:40 or http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1590 Dec 28 16:25:11 troll alert mobgod Dec 28 16:25:41 ok thanks! Dec 28 16:25:53 *yawn* Dec 28 16:27:50 i have an emulator, but not a device can test audio: best case scenerio, if a URL to a supported media type is clicked, does some media player automatically open and begin playing the file? Dec 28 16:28:30 like in an email for example? Dec 28 16:29:05 like a song, or video Dec 28 16:30:26 send me one and i'll test Dec 28 16:30:39 ok let me see Dec 28 16:37:22 swisstomcat: http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=7429 Dec 28 16:37:51 troll alert, threat level 0 Dec 28 16:38:30 trolls, where? Dec 28 16:40:39 it loads something and then gives an error Dec 28 16:41:09 i saw a title "streaming" and a background image Dec 28 16:41:45 but no sound? Dec 28 16:41:50 nah Dec 28 16:41:54 booo... Dec 28 16:43:00 who knows Dec 28 16:43:03 i'm in europe btw Dec 28 16:44:41 Switzerland? Dec 28 16:55:07 swisstomcat: did you try it on the device? Dec 28 16:56:44 Arg, my phone is not up to date. Where is 1.3.5? Dec 28 17:04:14 Shiggity: not sure, if 1.3.5 is out, but could be wrong Dec 28 17:09:12 http://www.precentral.net/sprint-support-website-webos-135-hit-today Dec 28 17:09:22 LoneStar34: I know. I'm just hoping :) Dec 28 17:16:21 oh ok, right on Dec 28 18:44:33 how do I refresh the photo app with out restarting the webos? I was looking for a luna-send command but was having some problems. I am trying to diplay new files added. Dec 28 18:48:11 rehi Dec 28 19:02:52 hi all! Dec 28 19:02:56 hi Dec 28 19:08:29 hi jenp Dec 28 19:08:38 hey bmyers! Dec 28 19:08:47 howsit going out there? Dec 28 19:09:10 nice...last day off of my vacation. Dec 28 19:09:33 yes. what r u doing special for your last day? Dec 28 19:10:19 smiles...hopefully finishing this app i'm working on Dec 28 19:10:34 i hear ya.. CODE LIKE THE WIND GIRL!! Dec 28 19:10:42 LOL Dec 28 19:11:27 working on debt free? Dec 28 19:11:37 no although i need to Dec 28 19:12:36 this is a new for bf. it showcases his art and lets people save them as wallpaper. Dec 28 19:12:55 coolio Dec 28 19:13:21 he ever try a theme? Dec 28 19:13:25 what are you working on? Dec 28 19:13:38 he's too busy to do theme's. Dec 28 19:14:19 i'm working on the bottomless app from hell Dec 28 19:14:27 oh no! still? Dec 28 19:14:31 what's left? Dec 28 19:14:42 u ever see money pit? Dec 28 19:14:51 lol yup Dec 28 19:15:07 when tom hanks asks how much longer till the house is finished and they say "2 weeks" Dec 28 19:15:12 and they all laugh? Dec 28 19:15:32 its like that.. Dec 28 19:15:42 i thought you were at a point to submit and start making updates to it Dec 28 19:16:01 i am. i was testing on the device to make dbl sure of things.. Dec 28 19:16:14 found some problems there. logging sux on the device tho Dec 28 19:16:20 and it works fine on the emu Dec 28 19:16:28 so i'm less than amused.. Dec 28 19:16:30 oh no Dec 28 19:19:08 little stuff.. Dec 28 19:20:12 little stuff is what always takes the longest Dec 28 19:21:38 yese it does... Dec 28 19:22:41 Gah, I'll tell you which app I would love: Something that encapsulates Jira. Dec 28 20:07:58 Howdy all Dec 28 20:08:08 hey kesne Dec 28 20:09:01 Hey JenP Dec 28 20:10:32 I have a question, does anybody know why when I update the content of a scroller div, the scrolling breaks. Dec 28 20:24:02 How are you updating it? Ie. are you replacing the whole content or just appending to the end or something? Dec 28 20:26:11 updating the entire content Dec 28 20:26:30 How are you doing that? (code-wise) Dec 28 20:26:42 $('scroller').update(data) Dec 28 20:27:18 Ok, I have no idea what that does ;) but I would guess the problem could be that the old data is first removed, making the div become empty, thus stopping the scroll Dec 28 20:28:04 Guess it would depend on the implementation of the update function which I haven't seen so can't say for sure. Dec 28 20:29:07 Well I've tried .innerHTML = data Dec 28 20:29:10 kesne: THe scroller adds other divs and things so what you'll want to do is put another div inside the scroller div and update that, and not the scroller directly. That should work Dec 28 20:29:11 and still no luck Dec 28 20:29:37 catalystmediastu: alright, I'll give that a try Dec 28 20:30:25 any developer here have gloria as their account manager? Dec 28 20:32:57 not me, but why? Dec 28 20:33:37 haven't heard from her in a while - just wondering if she is on vacation or something Dec 28 20:34:59 A lot of the reps are burning through vacation. I know mine is out through the new year Dec 28 20:35:20 * CTLAdvance wishes I could take a vacation Dec 28 20:35:34 ctladvance: my app moo is now on precentral homebrew Dec 28 20:35:52 I saw that Dec 28 20:36:03 once I get a working device again I will install it and take a look Dec 28 20:36:52 catalystmediastu: That worked like a charm! Many thanks! Dec 28 20:36:57 your pre broke? Dec 28 20:37:09 CTLAdvance: Yeah, I can't update my app due to some bug in the portal. So, with no point of contact, I can't do much. Dec 28 20:37:19 kesne: You're welcome! I'm glad it worked Dec 28 20:38:47 bryanroth: Just bug chuq about it, I'm sure he'll apriciate it Dec 28 20:38:57 And tell him I sent you Dec 28 20:39:27 kesne: lol - I'm sure he's on vacation too? Dec 28 20:39:38 Has anyone else had trouble animating fixed position elements? Every single one I've tried animating has been pretty slow. Dec 28 20:39:59 I use webkit-transitions which should be snappy. Maybe that's causing a slow down in this case :S Dec 28 20:40:45 bryanroth: No idea. But that shouldnt stop you. Dec 28 20:41:32 kesne: yeah, I'll send him an email - it's the least I can do Dec 28 20:41:55 catalystmediastu: Do you know how to show the bottom of a scroller? Dec 28 20:42:14 kesne: Maybe, what do you mean by show the bottom of it? Dec 28 20:43:47 It has scroller content, I want it to show the bottom of that. Aka, scroll to the very bottom Dec 28 20:47:01 Oh, I believe you use ScrollTo. Should be in the docs for the Scroller widget Dec 28 20:47:53 It is Dec 28 20:47:58 but I can't get it working Dec 28 20:48:49 What do you have so far? Dec 28 20:49:01 Hold on, I may have found the error Dec 28 20:51:35 this.controller.get('scroller').revealBottom(); Dec 28 20:54:06 That isnt working :/ Dec 28 20:55:49 Ooops, try this.controller.get('scroller').mojo.revealBottom(); Dec 28 20:59:25 that worked! Dec 28 20:59:28 thanks again! Dec 28 20:59:45 morning Dec 28 21:01:21 No prob kesne Dec 28 21:14:40 rwhitby: Howdy Dec 28 21:15:01 g'day Roy-Pre101 Dec 28 21:15:29 How're things down under? Dec 28 21:15:49 upside down? :) Dec 28 21:16:06 excellent, thanks. just worked out the last little technical issues for getting openvpn to integrate with the built-in Pre network services. Dec 28 21:18:07 and also worked out how to get the Pre to connect to web sites that require the client to present an openssl client certificate for authentication Dec 28 21:23:06 Good grief. I wish I could just sit and watch rwhitby work on some of this stuf. Dec 28 21:23:42 Shiggity: it's all in public repos :-) Dec 28 21:23:54 rwhitby: sell VNC time .. so people can pay to watch you work .. i mean .. donate to watch you work Dec 28 21:24:09 Shiggity: using com.palm.netroute for the openvpn stuff, and a tool called Delegate for the client cert connections. Dec 28 21:24:45 Just poking around in the code to figure out which calls to use? Dec 28 21:25:44 why does the pre lie to me?? Dec 28 21:25:50 it says that it updates EVERY day.... Dec 28 21:25:58 yet its last backup was 12/4 Dec 28 21:26:05 that's more than three weeks ago!! Dec 28 21:26:48 Shiggity: for com.palm.netroute, a combination of PmLogCtrl on 'netcfg.lib' and 'netcfg.mgr.route' and dbus-util --capture and tail /var/log/messages Dec 28 21:27:15 Shiggity: since there is no JS code which does what I need to do Dec 28 21:32:16 hi.. anyone alive? Dec 28 21:32:25 yeah Dec 28 21:32:37 cool :) Dec 28 21:33:00 working on an gps-enabled app Dec 28 21:33:29 swisstomcat: I'm waiting for a homebrew gps app that shows the satellite positions Dec 28 21:33:51 maybe you can help.. is there a way for an app to be notified upon SMS reception? Dec 28 21:34:06 rwhitby: sorry, just a gps supported phone search app for switzerland Dec 28 21:34:44 olivier101: maybe there's an interface to the messaging app Dec 28 21:35:06 yes, but apparently only to send messages Dec 28 21:35:50 there must be an interface that the messaging app uses Dec 28 21:36:00 did you check out it's source code? Dec 28 21:36:17 hmmmm no.. where is it available? Dec 28 21:36:37 do you have the emulator/sdk? Dec 28 21:37:52 sure Dec 28 21:39:06 although last time i extracted the source from webosdoctor Dec 28 21:39:37 swisstomcat: Does the webosdoctor just have a big archive of the entire os? Dec 28 21:39:49 Shiggity: yep Dec 28 21:39:52 yeah Dec 28 21:40:14 you can explore the pre filesystem that's inside the jar Dec 28 21:40:37 ok... i'll have a look! Dec 28 21:42:13 my ajax requests using https always come back null, is there something i'm missing here? Dec 28 21:42:59 Olivier101: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/meta-doctor.git;a=blob;f=scripts/unpack-doctor Dec 28 21:44:01 oh I know how to read a JAR file, but thanks anyway Dec 28 21:44:42 daveisadork: if the response is over 900 bytes, you'll get null too Dec 28 21:46:28 what? why? Dec 28 21:47:09 daveisadork: sorry, only if you log the response with Mojo.Log.error Dec 28 21:48:12 oh, ok Dec 28 21:48:37 yeah that's not the issue... when i do an ajax request to https://something it literally grabs nothing Dec 28 21:49:04 how do you check? Dec 28 21:50:00 at the moment i'm just using Mojo.Controller.errorDialog to show the responseText (which works when i request the same data with http instead of https) Dec 28 21:51:02 so a length limit should not be the problem Dec 28 21:51:05 certificate? authentication? Dec 28 21:51:08 newp Dec 28 21:51:14 as far as the certificate Dec 28 21:51:28 i've browsed to the site using the browser and trusted the certificate Dec 28 21:53:30 hi Dec 28 21:53:45 hi Dec 28 21:54:07 i'm new to webos and have some questions regarding app development Dec 28 21:54:13 am i right in here? Dec 28 21:54:31 i mean, is this the correct channel? Dec 28 21:54:35 yup, you came to the right place Dec 28 21:54:40 i'm watching the web server logs and it's not even logging an incoming request Dec 28 21:54:47 okay Dec 28 21:54:53 daveisadork: now that's very strange Dec 28 21:55:10 hola amigos/ amigas Dec 28 21:55:17 i now have an ipod touch and want to switch to palm pre because of some apple policy i don't like Dec 28 21:55:21 hola Dec 28 21:55:48 but i must admit i got used to some of the nice ipod apps that are, as far as i know, not available for the pre Dec 28 21:56:01 examples? Dec 28 21:56:12 1password Dec 28 21:56:16 any palm folks around? Dec 28 21:56:39 oder tankbuch, a german app for gas tracking Dec 28 21:56:45 oder = or, sry :) Dec 28 21:56:51 psi: do you know homebrew programs for webos? Dec 28 21:57:13 nope Dec 28 21:57:40 is there a directory i can ook through? Dec 28 21:57:41 stuff that is not (yet) in the official app catalog Dec 28 21:57:53 http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps Dec 28 21:58:09 i think there's a password manager and a gas/mileage tracker Dec 28 21:58:25 that's nice Dec 28 21:58:27 379 apps Dec 28 21:58:34 (mileage was the word i was looking for ;) ) Dec 28 21:58:34 or you can develop one yourself Dec 28 21:59:11 ok, so let's suppose i want to develop my own app. does the mojo SDK run on apple machines? Dec 28 21:59:19 yeah Dec 28 21:59:24 windows,macos,linux Dec 28 21:59:48 * rwhitby uses a mac laptop for the SDK Dec 28 21:59:51 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1788 Dec 28 22:00:03 cool Dec 28 22:00:04 mac os x 10.5 and 10.6 Dec 28 22:00:56 psi: http://www.nexave.de/forum/palm-webos/board39-entwicklung/ (in german) Dec 28 22:02:11 i'm starting to like it... Dec 28 22:02:21 and there's a great community Dec 28 22:02:47 swisstomcat: except for that webos-internals guy - he's a real jerk ;-) Dec 28 22:03:05 yeah :D Dec 28 22:03:36 there are even some swiss people hiding Dec 28 22:03:58 what about bluetooth file transfer? Dec 28 22:04:13 nope as far as i know :( Dec 28 22:04:37 or not yet .. who knows Dec 28 22:04:55 damn Dec 28 22:05:12 psi_: you can do bluetooth PAN, and then scp files across it. Dec 28 22:05:19 last month i was laughing about that guy not being able to receive files via bluetooth Dec 28 22:05:28 on his iphone Dec 28 22:05:41 rwhitby: try that with a nokia phone on the other side :) Dec 28 22:05:53 that's too complicated rwhitby Dec 28 22:05:55 rwhitby: you are webos-internal right? Dec 28 22:05:58 i tried to send an image to one .. nada Dec 28 22:06:00 LoneStar34: yes Dec 28 22:06:42 rwhitby: have a question, have you tested pre with media files? Dec 28 22:06:49 well, I founded the group - many people are part of it Dec 28 22:08:19 this SDK, which language do i program it? C? Java? Dec 28 22:08:40 javascript Dec 28 22:08:44 html/css Dec 28 22:09:05 ok Dec 28 22:09:15 (or in #webos-internals, C, C++, python, perl, ruby, Java, ...) Dec 28 22:09:38 psi: with the mojo framework is the "offical" way Dec 28 22:09:49 rwhitby: what about PHP? Dec 28 22:10:11 LoneStar34: yeah, that too Dec 28 22:10:12 you do the layout with html and css and the code with javascript Dec 28 22:10:28 take a look at "hello world": http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1758 Dec 28 22:10:28 okay Dec 28 22:11:37 rwhitby: nice, is there a how-to guide? Dec 28 22:13:30 LoneStar34: nope Dec 28 22:14:09 rwhitby: how do you sync your pre with your mac, if you do so Dec 28 22:14:13 LoneStar34: you'll need to use the Lighty Web Server, and install php-fcgi via command line optware Dec 28 22:14:30 psi: by default you sync with "the cloud" Dec 28 22:14:30 psi_: via google Dec 28 22:14:41 psi: but there are 3rd party apps that do local sync Dec 28 22:14:51 i prefer local sync Dec 28 22:15:05 iSync doesn't do it as i found out Dec 28 22:15:44 I have the missing sync stuff too Dec 28 22:16:09 but you need to use the usb cable for media, so I'm going to just use rsync over wifi for that instead Dec 28 22:16:28 psi: missing sync for palm pre: http://www.markspace.com/products/pre/index.html Dec 28 22:16:29 (I have a mission to never open that plastic usb cover on my production Pre ever again) Dec 28 22:16:57 i can't sync media with missing sync via wifi?! Dec 28 22:17:01 a touchstone with wireless usb would be cool Dec 28 22:17:20 rwhitby: can you test to see if your pre opens this link correctly: http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=6956 Dec 28 22:18:08 aw come on Dec 28 22:18:57 psi: you can sync via wifi with the missing sync Dec 28 22:19:16 http://www.markspace.com/products/pre/mac-features.html Dec 28 22:19:54 it says Dec 28 22:19:55 Synchronize contacts and calendars automatically and wirelessly, via WiFi - even when your Pre is sitting on a Palm Touchstoneâ„¢ charger. Transfer and sync music, ringtones, photos, files, and videos fast with a USB cable. Dec 28 22:20:08 oops Dec 28 22:20:12 yep Dec 28 22:20:35 rwhitby: how do i establish a wifi connection for rsync? Dec 28 22:20:55 psi_: http://install.preware.org, then use OpenSSH SFTP Server over wifi Dec 28 22:23:14 hm Dec 28 22:23:39 Sexy solution. Dec 28 22:23:58 sexy is, when it works out of the box Dec 28 22:24:44 ok... Dec 28 22:25:23 does the openssh server run in the background, or do i have to start it before sync? Dec 28 22:25:24 so, am i right in assuming that it's impossible to use Ajax.Request to get something using https, at least within the context of webos? Dec 28 22:25:43 psi_: background, or not. your choice. Dec 28 22:25:56 daveisadork: can you give a link to test? Dec 28 22:26:02 rwhitby: ok, so there has to be some kind of terminal? Dec 28 22:26:13 umm Dec 28 22:26:20 i think so Dec 28 22:26:20 hold on Dec 28 22:26:28 psi_: background by default. no need for terminal. but there is a terminal if you want to use it. Dec 28 22:26:49 ok Dec 28 22:27:06 psi_: just put your authorized_keys file in place, and it's secure and automatic from then on Dec 28 22:27:28 (no password logins allowed - we don't want the apple openssh worm to get onto the pre) Dec 28 22:28:06 swisstomcat: pm please Dec 28 22:28:14 .oO(the reason why i went to mac was because i wanted to stop having to fiddle around to get a working system... now it all comes back ;) ) Dec 28 22:28:31 daveisadork: how? Dec 28 22:28:57 psi: that's what you get from living on the bleeding edge (the palm pre) :) Dec 28 22:29:13 psi_: um, you need to manage ssh public keys no matter what platform you are on Dec 28 22:30:27 but yeah, there's plenty of work still to be done to package this stuff for the end-user Dec 28 22:30:47 * rwhitby bbl Dec 28 22:31:08 well at least _i_ have the option to fiddle around Dec 28 22:31:40 not the company Dec 28 22:32:05 the authorized_keys solution is pretty nice i think Dec 28 22:32:26 if there's a possibility to combine it with missing sync's proximity mode Dec 28 22:33:21 psi_: yeah, don't know about the combining. would need to find a trigger point somewhere Dec 28 22:34:37 does anyone know how missing sync manages to sync via USB? is the pre mounted as a volume? Dec 28 22:35:27 if so, one could mount the pre's fs via nfs/sshfs (wifi) and sync with missing sync Dec 28 22:35:52 this one should be scriptable with applescript/automator Dec 28 22:36:00 psi_: i'm not sure about other people's experiences but sshfs ate my files and i'm not going close to that thing any more Dec 28 22:36:17 ok, good to know Dec 28 22:36:18 anyone here have a pre or pixi device? I need a media link tested... Dec 28 22:36:36 rwhitby: that worm relied on the same predictable password everywhere -- while keys are ideal, a good password thwarts it also Dec 28 22:38:07 paranoia can be helpful when dealing with security but it's always about tradeoffs -- for some, key management may be more of a burden than it's worth Dec 28 22:39:48 lonestar: same as earlier? Dec 28 22:41:17 swisstomcat: yes i viewed the docs and the links should work, as the media is supported.. Dec 28 22:41:59 http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=6956 Dec 28 22:42:15 let me try again Dec 28 22:43:41 over wifi this time Dec 28 22:43:54 lonestar: it's working! Dec 28 22:43:55 do only select developers get early access to webOS releases? Dec 28 22:44:20 swisstomcat: does it only work on wifi? Dec 28 22:44:23 lonestar34: i hear country music :) Dec 28 22:44:45 swisstomcat: what device are you using? Dec 28 22:44:48 pre Dec 28 22:45:10 ok and it is the actual phone? Dec 28 22:45:14 yep Dec 28 22:45:27 turning off wifi now Dec 28 22:45:45 still working ... Dec 28 22:45:53 swisstomcat: it still works? Dec 28 22:46:11 so far Dec 28 22:46:19 now it stopped with an error Dec 28 22:47:17 title is "streaming" and then there's a background image Dec 28 22:47:28 and the radio station below, and player controls below Dec 28 22:47:47 ok great: what about this link: http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=268 Dec 28 22:48:15 destinal: is easy to have a bad password. it's much harder to have a bad ssh key :-) Dec 28 22:48:15 make an app that calls the browser with those links :) Dec 28 22:48:45 swisstomcat: I already have the app, just need to add it! Dec 28 22:49:14 yetdog: those that ask chuq, and get accepted. Dec 28 22:49:19 swisstomcat: so they work in 3G and wifi? Dec 28 22:49:21 what's the battery runtime? Dec 28 22:49:24 of a pre... Dec 28 22:49:26 poor Dec 28 22:49:30 lonestart: works too Dec 28 22:49:39 psi: acceptable 1-2 days max Dec 28 22:49:44 depending on usage Dec 28 22:49:51 psi_: make sure you have a touchstone at both home and work (and in the car preferably too) Dec 28 22:49:56 lonestar: i hear music again Dec 28 22:50:37 swisstomcat: will ask a few more people to evaluate the links later, and will be releasing a new version of my app within 24-48 hours Dec 28 22:50:39 i'm not planning to buy a touchstone Dec 28 22:50:39 lonestart: it works on wifi and 3g .. but stops after a while on 3G Dec 28 22:51:03 i suppose usb charging works? Dec 28 22:51:08 yeah Dec 28 22:51:17 psi_: yep, but the plastic usb cover will break off easily Dec 28 22:51:19 lonestar: let me know if i should test it Dec 28 22:51:34 s/suppose/assume/ Dec 28 22:51:35 swisstomcat: ok i think is the links might take to much bandwidth Dec 28 22:51:58 swisstomcat: ok I will let you know when the IPK is ready for testing Dec 28 22:52:44 hm, nevermind Dec 28 22:53:06 rwhitby: ok Dec 28 22:53:28 psi: i have an extended battery Dec 28 22:53:32 are any hardware revisions expectedin the near future? Dec 28 22:53:40 nope Dec 28 22:54:20 swisstomcat: does it match the normal one in size? Dec 28 22:55:42 psi: yeah Dec 28 22:55:44 mugen 1400mah extended battery Dec 28 22:56:09 and the normal one's capacity? Dec 28 22:57:48 Roy-Pre101 Bmyers someoone? Dec 28 22:58:15 if I have a menu in stage assistant, and a handlecommand in stage assistant, how do I call a function in the scope of the scene assistant? Dec 28 22:58:38 psi: 1150mah Dec 28 22:58:54 ok Dec 28 23:00:48 which usb connector does the pre have? standard? oder is it a proprietary oner? Dec 28 23:03:37 it's a standard microusb Dec 28 23:04:58 thanks Dec 28 23:05:35 Rick_work: explain more what you are trying to do... Dec 28 23:06:33 nevermind Dec 28 23:06:36 I give up Dec 28 23:06:50 I'll just put a copy of handlecommand in the scene where I need a custom handlecommand Dec 28 23:06:57 It's just too annoying Dec 28 23:07:09 I have an app wide menu and handlecommand in the stage manager. Dec 28 23:07:15 but I have a COMMAND MENU in one scene Dec 28 23:07:32 and so I need a handlecommand in that scene to deal with the scene specific command menu. Dec 28 23:07:41 no big deal, copy in the generic, and add two cases. Dec 28 23:08:29 Rick_work: why? both will be called? Dec 28 23:08:46 don't stop it at the scene one, and the stage one will also be called Dec 28 23:21:04 can i browse the apps from the official store somewhere? Dec 28 23:35:24 http://www.palm.com/us/products/software/mobile-applications.html - oh .. i guess he left Dec 28 23:35:25 whoops Dec 28 23:56:12 wow. I haven't seen IRC in years. Dec 28 23:57:10 it hasn't changed much. Dec 28 23:57:40 Yep, here we are. Dec 28 23:57:58 now it runs a browser. neat Dec 28 23:58:23 good point. I am on via webchat myself. Dec 28 23:59:03 Ken__: I suppose that's the difference. Many different clients these days. I assure you people in this room are running IRC in windows clients.. linux clients.. mac clients... command line interfaces... web clients, and also on their Pre/Pixi with wIRC. Dec 28 23:59:48 wIRC rocks Dec 29 00:00:21 It seems kind of retro to go from Eclipse to an IRC client as a developer tool. Dec 29 00:00:37 Ken__: They are developer tools in vastly different ways. Dec 29 00:00:55 Hey, whatever works. Dec 29 00:01:08 I've never used Eclipse for collaboration, unless I'm missing out on something Dec 29 00:02:10 I guess I haven't done collaboration in development before. Usually have meetings for this stuff. Dec 29 00:03:33 I got here from following links from the webOS developer page. I just noticed the stuff about Ares. Very neat. Dec 29 00:04:33 Ken__: Meetings are useful. But generally not feasible on a regular basis for worldwide non-commercial type collaboration :> Dec 29 00:05:54 zsoc: IRC is the equivalent of cubicle conversations Dec 29 00:06:50 rwhitby: i'll have to take your word for it. I'm not an office building kinda guy Dec 29 00:08:18 although we use IRC internally at my office Dec 29 00:09:53 rwhitby: that seems novel for a 'real business' :) Dec 29 00:10:27 zsoc: well, I'm the CTO, so things get done properly ;-) Dec 29 00:11:09 ha. Dec 29 00:11:12 When I had a cubicle, we used an IM client for some things. Dec 29 00:11:58 If Ares runs on my machine, does that mean I have the correct version of the sdk installed? Dec 29 00:12:02 IM clients make sense, but most businesses shun FOSS-friendly non-boxed/prepacked FOSS stuff 90% of the time, outside of where it's necessary. Dec 29 00:12:08 Ken__: not necessarily Dec 29 00:12:12 anyone know how to open the UTube App with a particular video loaded? Dec 29 00:12:32 Ken__: Ares is just a Web app...should run even if you don't have an SDK installed Dec 29 00:12:40 jfelectron: no, but you could see how the browser does it when you click on a youtube link Dec 29 00:12:49 ahh..good ide Dec 29 00:12:52 idea Dec 29 00:13:18 zsoc: where I work, everything runs on open source stuff. Dec 29 00:13:45 and we save hundreds of thousands of dollars every year as a result Dec 29 00:14:00 where I work, we have to threaten lawyers with bodily harm to include open-source stuff in our images Dec 29 00:14:13 it's great fun Dec 29 00:14:21 sugardave: oh, using open source stuff in products is a whole different matter Dec 29 00:14:33 "education products" Dec 29 00:14:47 i.e., not being distributed beyond the white walls of hallowed learning Dec 29 00:14:52 it's a big bunch of BS Dec 29 00:15:37 Depends on the license....GPL is restrictive for commercial applications, but other licenses are more open Dec 29 00:16:01 I know, I know....I just like to complain Dec 29 00:16:38 lol....just blame Stallman :) Dec 29 00:16:58 hero or saint? Dec 29 00:17:06 I'm using the aptana suite in eclipse for webOS development. How do I find which version of the SDK I have installed? Dec 29 00:17:24 rwhitby: you should start a business that converts other business to open source :) Dec 29 00:17:24 Does it update automatically? Dec 29 00:17:35 Ken_: nope Dec 29 00:17:47 My stuff if probably old. Dec 29 00:17:53 What platform are you using? Dec 29 00:17:58 Win/Max/Linux? Dec 29 00:17:59 zsoc: that's actually my back-up plan if I ever need to work for myself Dec 29 00:18:14 how long ago did you download it? Dec 29 00:18:25 I'm on Windows vista. Dec 29 00:18:30 Each WebOS update has a corresponding SDK update Dec 29 00:18:54 Ahh...I'm not sure of the path to the SDK on windows Dec 29 00:19:02 hang on Dec 29 00:19:23 I can find where I installed it. Dec 29 00:19:43 \Program Files\Palm\SDK\share\emulator\images Dec 29 00:19:44 To be safe, just download it again: https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1788 Dec 29 00:20:10 ^^^^ is the default location of your images Dec 29 00:20:36 is there a refcode folder in there somwhere? Dec 29 00:20:56 in the 'share' dir there is Dec 29 00:21:26 uh-oh, "honey-dos" are calling.....bbl Dec 29 00:22:10 Ken_: if you haven't downloaded it in awhile, just get the most recent one from Palm Dec 29 00:23:23 has anyone used inheritance and extended a widget? Dec 29 00:24:02 downloading now. Dec 29 00:32:33 jfelectron: here's an 'extended widgets' example: http://webos101.com/Extended_widgets Dec 29 00:32:44 that's clunky Dec 29 00:32:52 no offense to whoever wrote it Dec 29 00:33:02 I need to add a bunch of methods Dec 29 00:33:13 fine :( it was a take on Crockford's "durable" private objects Dec 29 00:33:31 but, I'm still a js n00b Dec 29 00:33:35 Rick_work: Did you get your answer? Dec 29 00:33:44 I thought I posted something on webos101.com about that. Dec 29 00:34:10 well....prototype's inheritance through Class.create is a recent phenomenon in the Js world Dec 29 00:34:24 JS 2.0 will finally bring true inheritance on par with other OO languages Dec 29 00:34:42 jfelectron: I have been advised to steer clear of Class.create :D Dec 29 00:35:01 Class can be very tricky to deal with in JS. Particularly with the stuff that Google's new compiler has thrown in. Dec 29 00:35:27 Google is everywhere. Dec 29 00:35:40 its tricky because its inconsistent from library to library....hasn't really be standardized Dec 29 00:36:22 G Closure, Prototype and Jquery all have slightly different object models Dec 29 00:37:22 Basically, I want to extend the RichTextEdit widget to be well richer Dec 29 00:38:35 I don't want it to be menu driven like it is now....that's really clunky, and I want to add additional execCommands to support things like strikethrough's, image anchor insertion...etc to make a lightweight WYSIWYG editor Dec 29 00:43:23 Anyone see Presteroids? (Although I can't agree the name isn't slightly off-putting) Dec 29 00:46:22 can i turn on / off wifi via the api? Dec 29 00:46:39 What if other apps are using it? Dec 29 00:47:15 what if you walk out of your wifi zone? they'll have to handle that case anyways Dec 29 00:47:52 i'm not planning on turning it on or off randomly, but under certain circumstances where it makes sense Dec 29 00:48:30 muesli: it can be done, just not sure if it's "documented" api territory or not. Dec 29 00:49:20 here's the plan: store a gps location with your known wifi's. if your not near _any_ of those wifi zones, turn off wifi completely until you return to a known gps location (give or take a couple hundred metres) Dec 29 00:49:30 should save some battery and would be a helpful tool Dec 29 00:49:54 I am installing the latest SDK but installshield didn't recognize any difference with the 64 bit version. Dec 29 00:51:22 muesli: wouldn't the gps location polling kinda kill the battery saving idea? Dec 29 00:52:02 not sure if i really need gps to be exact. an aproximate location would be enough (as you can get by gsm, and hopefully the location api) Dec 29 00:52:13 also checking the location every say, 20 or 30 minutes should be enough Dec 29 00:55:40 There are methods to toggle the radio states...but they are not public AFAIK Dec 29 00:56:13 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Radio_Power_Switch Dec 29 00:58:22 the luna classes aren't going to be be available outside the com.palm namespace Dec 29 00:58:25 thanks jfelectron Dec 29 00:58:41 NP Dec 29 01:16:57 Bmyers: ping Dec 29 01:22:02 I've got 3 bugs that don't seem to have gotten any attention on dev.palm forums... who wants to discuss them? Dec 29 01:22:06 (meaning, from Palm) Dec 29 01:22:20 lingfish: everyone here, i'm sure Dec 29 01:22:55 One I can't really post as its a bug in IMAP syncing and I have a kept mail that reliably borks the sync every time... Dec 29 01:24:55 * zsoc has been stuck at "unpacking" for almost 5 minutes, not a great sign Dec 29 01:28:21 hey haeffe Dec 29 01:28:31 what up? Dec 29 01:28:41 monday night fb Dec 29 01:28:50 u? Dec 29 01:29:29 1.3.5 is out! Dec 29 01:30:09 hasnt gotten pushed my way yet.. Dec 29 01:30:13 not an NFL fan Dec 29 01:30:33 i like to ignore the football and code.. it's background for me. Dec 29 01:30:46 some ppl like technotrance to code to, i like nfl.. Dec 29 01:30:48 i saw that after I left last night you might have some tips for me...? Dec 29 01:30:57 Bmyers: i agree Dec 29 01:31:05 well if u left, how did u see it? Dec 29 01:31:20 not that I don't like NFL, just doing other things during fall/winter sundays Dec 29 01:31:31 it was still there in the morning... Dec 29 01:31:54 its monday dude. not sunday. Dec 29 01:31:58 :) Dec 29 01:32:02 stuff that you post to the interwebs stays forever Dec 29 01:32:11 yeah no kidding.. Dec 29 01:32:23 ya, but if you don't watch the first episode, you don't have a clue what's going on. Dec 29 01:32:37 :) Dec 29 01:32:50 i was looking at ur app Dec 29 01:33:28 commenting about that Dec 29 01:33:44 any new known apis in 1.3.5? Dec 29 01:34:08 I have plans to make some unknown ones :D Dec 29 01:34:25 i guess dreams of webgl can die now... Dec 29 01:34:33 good, bad, ugly? Dec 29 01:35:22 qillerneu: wait for CES, complain after if no webgl info ;) Dec 29 01:36:12 * haeffb downloading 1.3.5 Dec 29 01:36:15 Locations from which users can purchase paid apps from App Catalog now include U.S. territories. Dec 29 01:36:19 That's a start... Dec 29 01:37:09 it works. thats always a good thing Dec 29 01:37:11 wow... 1.3.5 is out! Dec 29 01:37:15 * ivanst hops about Dec 29 01:38:44 zsoc - yeah, but it's out noooow Dec 29 01:38:48 you were asking how to populate the db at start right haeffb? Dec 29 01:39:00 yep Dec 29 01:39:49 qillerneu: 3 deep versioning is classically 'bugfixes', Palm style. No surprise really. Dec 29 01:40:09 did u get that part worked out? Dec 29 01:40:29 well...I worked out a way that...works. Dec 29 01:40:31 1.3.5 download is slooow Dec 29 01:40:42 that's cuz I'm downloading it. Dec 29 01:40:48 bryanroth: wait till you start unpacking it Dec 29 01:40:53 lol Dec 29 01:40:54 over EVDO Dec 29 01:41:29 reverse tethering for the win :) Dec 29 01:41:37 wifi woot Dec 29 01:41:47 (use wired broadband over USB if you have no wifi like me) Dec 29 01:42:21 destinal: lol are you seriously providing your webOS device a data connection through bridged tethering? Dec 29 01:42:26 yup Dec 29 01:42:28 destinal ++; Dec 29 01:42:41 r u guys backing out you're mods first? Dec 29 01:42:55 much faster to use my work's ethernet internet drop Dec 29 01:42:57 * haeffb has no mods Dec 29 01:43:01 as opposed to EVDO Dec 29 01:43:10 my broadband is a Sprint EVDO aircard Dec 29 01:43:16 Bmyers: not I, but I have aupt compatible stuff Dec 29 01:43:42 in a Cradlepoint router Dec 29 01:43:49 * haeffb lives in the sticks Dec 29 01:43:58 I removed all my patches. Dec 29 01:44:23 haeffb: can't be that bad if you have an evdo aircard :D Dec 29 01:46:38 is there something really cool in 135 ? doesnt seem too exciting other than battery life perhaps. Dec 29 01:50:11 Bmyers: how can you not call that exciting?!? Dec 29 01:50:22 Not avail for German Pre yet though I guess? Dec 29 01:50:31 Bmyers: applications are now stored on the phone's usb drive Dec 29 01:50:52 * haeffb is now unpacking Dec 29 01:51:06 * bryanroth is unpacking too Dec 29 01:51:23 so only select developers get early access to the latest firmware? Dec 29 01:52:31 yetdog_: yeah, that seems to be the consensus Dec 29 01:52:41 gotcha, thanks Dec 29 01:52:58 * yetdog_ unpacking as well Dec 29 01:53:22 zsoc: "aupt compatible stuff" ? Dec 29 01:53:51 yetdog: only devs with an app in the catalog Dec 29 01:54:05 i have an app in the catalog, haeffb Dec 29 01:54:17 haeffb: actually, no Dec 29 01:54:19 jfelectron: if you follow the roadmap for Preware, one of the things currently being worked on is having patches 'carry over' through a firmware update, without having to uninstall them all before and reinstall them all after. I'm testing this with the 135 upgrade. Dec 29 01:54:50 ahh...but this isn't in the 'stable' release eh? Dec 29 01:54:54 yetdog_: those who ask chuq for early access, and get approved. having an app in the catalog makes it more likely you will be approved Dec 29 01:55:13 ah i see. no problem, was just curious Dec 29 01:55:14 jfelectron: no, it's not. Dec 29 01:55:31 OK, just making sure I didn't miss something :) Dec 29 01:55:56 EPR it is then Dec 29 01:56:38 jfelectron: theme before EPR, always Dec 29 01:57:08 roger Dec 29 01:57:32 rwhitby-away: thanks for the clarification Dec 29 01:58:18 wonder what the big announce will be at CES Dec 29 01:58:26 * yetdog_ is PRAYING for GPU/low level sdk Dec 29 01:58:45 yetdog_: we all are ;) Dec 29 01:59:28 ha...if they had that, the iphone has legit competition. i mean, they do now in so many areas, but as cool as javascript is and mojo and all that, its so limited Dec 29 01:59:56 * bryanroth is done unpacking, now validating... Dec 29 02:00:15 Yes... a GUI that is hw accelerated would be very, very nice. I still cry a little when using a friends iCrap :( Dec 29 02:01:08 I'll take just GPU CSS acceleration Dec 29 02:01:21 image resizing is killing me Dec 29 02:01:38 jfelectron: ok im unfamiliar. so gpu css Dec 29 02:01:40 what will that do for us? Dec 29 02:01:49 CSS to me is stylesheets Dec 29 02:02:09 yetdog: come into 2009, transform and webgl ;) Dec 29 02:02:17 accelerate CSS based transitions and animations and operations like resizing Dec 29 02:02:23 canvas acceleration would be so nice Dec 29 02:02:26 yes Dec 29 02:02:29 so you can set up animations w/in CSS? Dec 29 02:02:41 transitions Dec 29 02:02:55 true animations are in Canvas Dec 29 02:03:24 Mojo.Animator is a just a wrapper for CSS transitions Dec 29 02:03:40 and if that was gpu- accelerated, our entire webOS experience would be silky smooth? Dec 29 02:04:04 that's my hope :) Dec 29 02:04:19 so the sliding around of cards, etc Dec 29 02:04:24 those are handled right now via css transitions? Dec 29 02:04:37 I don't know how that's implementd Dec 29 02:04:50 that's in Luna...which is a Java binary Dec 29 02:05:26 interesting. so if we got binary sdk itd most likely be in java Dec 29 02:05:50 I guess so...though it could provide C access Dec 29 02:05:59 it would depend how the hardware is abstracted Dec 29 02:05:59 yetdog_: guess you're not following @webosinternals on twitter re: GPU (http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/7143151996) Dec 29 02:06:00 * sugardave is STILL unpacking. Dec 29 02:06:09 im not...but thank you Dec 29 02:06:25 oh nice Dec 29 02:06:28 oand oh my rwhitby-away :) Dec 29 02:06:43 woohoo Dec 29 02:07:29 so wow. a couple ipks related to opengl Dec 29 02:08:57 I wonder if those are kernel modules or if they provide userspace hooks....i.e. will this open-up HB tinkering in the short-term? Dec 29 02:09:36 i have a feeling we'll find out soon...they still need drivers in the kernel right? Dec 29 02:09:41 or could ipk's potentially deliver those? Dec 29 02:11:38 they could provide new kernel modules....which will be required for the GPU backend Dec 29 02:13:06 well i guess internals will let us know soon enough what it delivered Dec 29 02:13:41 jfelectron: after doing a quick scan through new things in 135, those modules might exist now Dec 29 02:13:48 oh cool,this might pave the way for building Qt: http://tiexpressdsp.com/index.php/Building_Qt_for_OMAP35xx_with_OpenGL_ES_accelerated_by_SGX Dec 29 02:13:57 zsoc: nice Dec 29 02:15:03 There are some docs from the BeagleBoard: http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/wiki/HowtoUseSGXunderAngstrom Dec 29 02:15:16 jfelectron: /usr/lib/libEGL.so Dec 29 02:15:23 but this is internals stuff, i'll stop spamming the channel Dec 29 02:15:32 roger Dec 29 02:19:40 rwhitby-away: interesting.. Dec 29 02:25:49 * haeffb is installing update Dec 29 02:28:03 Is there a way to safely distribute an app for beta or reviews, without worrying too much that ipk will appear in a few hours somewhere on piratebay? Dec 29 02:28:13 nop Dec 29 02:29:25 * bryanroth is done installing Dec 29 02:29:42 is it awesome? Dec 29 02:29:42 * rwhitby-away is almost done installing. Dec 29 02:29:55 mine went through the installer screen w/ the little orb Dec 29 02:29:58 then it went back to palm Dec 29 02:30:01 now it's back to the orb Dec 29 02:30:03 does your pre now have super powers? Dec 29 02:30:05 did yours do that Dec 29 02:30:17 haeffb: after you said that my pre vibrated Dec 29 02:30:25 o.O Dec 29 02:30:28 woohoo! Dec 29 02:30:34 super-powerd Pre!!! Dec 29 02:30:37 lol Dec 29 02:30:58 about 70% thru install Dec 29 02:31:29 oooo Dec 29 02:31:31 Hm, something is different Dec 29 02:31:35 Oh Dec 29 02:31:36 1.3.5 is showing as an available patch here, wheee. Dec 29 02:31:37 app catalog is no longer "beta" Dec 29 02:31:45 was just typing that Dec 29 02:32:10 the app catalog has a lighter blue background now Dec 29 02:32:11 pretty Dec 29 02:32:28 screenshots are blending nicely now Dec 29 02:32:50 wow Dec 29 02:33:34 screenshots are now a slideshow instead of 3 cards Dec 29 02:33:36 hmmm Dec 29 02:34:24 the black border could be prettier, but works i guess Dec 29 02:34:40 qillerneu: yeah, I'm not a fan of the "scratchy" border Dec 29 02:34:49 uh oh. wonder if you have to pay up now to submit an app Dec 29 02:35:18 you two need to walk away from IRC for about 30 mins so the rest can catch up....! Dec 29 02:35:32 mines been sitting at updating the system 90-ish % for a while now Dec 29 02:35:57 haeffb: lol - sorry Dec 29 02:36:01 :) Dec 29 02:36:21 easy way to uninstall all patches in preware? Dec 29 02:36:43 hi all! Dec 29 02:36:51 * OrionPK thinks he might be in an 'update loop' Dec 29 02:37:04 any word on why preware is broken? Dec 29 02:37:14 OrionPK: no worries, it takes a *while* Dec 29 02:37:21 k,, Dec 29 02:37:30 3rd time it's shown the little 'updating the system' orb Dec 29 02:38:15 dang, apps seem very sluggish since the update - going to restart Dec 29 02:38:28 you let it 'warm up'? Dec 29 02:38:38 mine seems to be stuck on "updating the system" Dec 29 02:38:39 no movement Dec 29 02:38:46 warm up? Dec 29 02:39:17 yeah, idk if it's just my perception, but when the pre first starts it seems a little more sluggish for a few minutes Dec 29 02:39:21 * haeffb sees "palm" Dec 29 02:39:52 hi jenp Dec 29 02:40:13 * haeffb sees "palm" glowing/pulsing Dec 29 02:40:24 * haeffb sees "updating the system" again Dec 29 02:40:53 * haeffb sees "palm" glowing/pulsating again Dec 29 02:41:04 * haeffb sees "updating the system" again Dec 29 02:42:32 same, haeffb Dec 29 02:42:38 * haeffb wonders what would happen if I *did* remove the battery...? Dec 29 02:42:54 end of the universe as we know it? Dec 29 02:42:59 hold on Dec 29 02:43:08 im back on glowin palm Dec 29 02:43:36 Sheesh, why didn't anyone tell me the update was out? Dec 29 02:43:50 uh. we forgot? Dec 29 02:43:54 And I didn't have my update blog post ready to go. I'm really getting behind. :P Dec 29 02:44:25 ok Dec 29 02:44:32 just updated to 1.3.5 and now connected with wIRC Dec 29 02:44:34 after 3 times showing the "orb" Dec 29 02:44:41 it finished, haeffb Dec 29 02:44:51 just be patient Dec 29 02:44:52 update was long but smooth Dec 29 02:45:10 oh, I am nothing if not patient. Dec 29 02:45:17 broke preware Dec 29 02:45:18 :( Dec 29 02:45:38 go to webosinternals and let them know Dec 29 02:45:45 anyone also getting an error message with Preware after the update? Dec 29 02:45:52 MoradKS: yep Dec 29 02:46:40 Hmm, wonder what I should uninstall before the update? Dec 29 02:46:51 * haeffb is like || close Dec 29 02:46:53 I don't think I have anything I need to worry about. Dec 29 02:47:12 like two really close things Dec 29 02:49:58 and we're back in! Dec 29 02:50:39 Agenda still works Dec 29 02:50:49 * haeffb wipes forehead of sweat Dec 29 02:51:12 seems a little snappier overall imo Dec 29 02:51:20 but that may just be the restart Dec 29 02:51:27 may be it's just me, but feels running a bit faster now Dec 29 02:51:27 my game timer used to lag about 4 seconds per each 10 of "real" time, now just about 2 Dec 29 02:51:27 heavy canvas usage Dec 29 02:51:32 blah Dec 29 02:51:35 orion, did you get stuck @ updating the system for awhile? Dec 29 02:51:40 yes Dec 29 02:51:44 im about at 90% of it, the spinner isnt spinning. been like this for about 15 m Dec 29 02:51:46 but it finished, and it's snappier! Dec 29 02:51:54 hmm Dec 29 02:51:58 yeah :/ Dec 29 02:52:03 nothing inside the circle spinning? Dec 29 02:52:06 nothing Dec 29 02:52:09 think im gonna yank battery Dec 29 02:52:13 idk Dec 29 02:52:17 I'd wait a while longer Dec 29 02:52:17 i thnk 15m is conservative, more like 20-25 Dec 29 02:52:56 oh wow, that font is different for the clock heh Dec 29 02:52:57 TaskAdder works. But seems to have lost app cookies... Dec 29 02:53:12 well good luck yetdog, I'd be a little more patient Dec 29 02:54:15 thanks man Dec 29 02:55:07 will there be an sdk update? Dec 29 02:55:45 * haeffb is rebooting phone Dec 29 02:55:54 thinking about yanking the battery in mine Dec 29 02:55:59 25 minutes + doing nothing Dec 29 02:56:02 is it possible to block framework initiated scrolling? Dec 29 02:56:17 mine updated, just rebooting for the heck of it. Dec 29 02:57:04 * haeffb is going to take out the trash Dec 29 02:57:25 Opening of drawers, adding elements....anything that causes the length of rendered content to change, also seems to initiae scrolling. I'd like to block that, if possible. Dec 29 02:58:12 * haeffb is having a problem with opening a dialog causing scroll to bottom of scene Dec 29 02:59:12 yanked the battery. back to updating the system. at least the wheel is spinning now Dec 29 02:59:41 preware gives error. Dec 29 02:59:54 i think u need to uninstall/reinstall the package manager service **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 29 02:59:57 2009