**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 01 02:59:56 2010
Jan 01 02:59:56 <jfelectron> haeffb: wait... are you serious?
Jan 01 03:00:38 <kridx1> nope, reboot didn't help either
Jan 01 03:00:44 <kridx1> this is killing me
Jan 01 03:00:55 <kridx1> or at least killing my evening
Jan 01 03:01:07 <jfelectron> haeffb: the prob is that calling noticeUpdateItems from an AJAX callback  that returns seconds after the initial rendering causes weird  scrolling
Jan 01 03:01:41 <jfelectron> krdx1: what is the state of your device? E.g preware or no?
Jan 01 03:01:55 <kridx1> I've got preware installed, and a couple of patches
Jan 01 03:01:56 <jfelectron> Has everything migrated cleanly?
Jan 01 03:02:03 <kridx1> migrated?
Jan 01 03:02:06 <jfelectron> new package manager service
Jan 01 03:02:11 <kridx1> I had to reinstall preware
Jan 01 03:02:12 <jfelectron> yeah the partition changed with 1.3.5
Jan 01 03:02:22 <kridx1> and I upgraded the pkg manager service just today
Jan 01 03:02:29 <jfelectron> OK
Jan 01 03:02:33 <kridx1> but I'm not installing via preware now
Jan 01 03:02:39 <kridx1> just palm-install
Jan 01 03:02:42 <rwhitby> kridx1: are you the password manager author?
Jan 01 03:02:42 <jfelectron> are you getting any messages?
Jan 01 03:02:48 <kridx1> rwhitby: yup
Jan 01 03:02:57 <kridx1> palm-install claims to work...
Jan 01 03:03:04 <kridx1> $ palm-install -d usb com.otisbean.keyring_0.1.0_all.ipk
Jan 01 03:03:04 <kridx1> connecting to device castle-linux (80B23477E8F0EB72BB7E207009256C7CB64817FF:usb:52236)
Jan 01 03:03:04 <kridx1> copying /tmp/com.otisbean.keyring_0.1.0_all.ipk to /media/internal/developer/com.otisbean.keyring_0.1.0_all.ipk on device castle-linux (80B23477E8F0EB72BB7E207009256C7CB64817FF:usb:52236)
Jan 01 03:03:04 <kridx1> installing package /media/internal/developer/com.otisbean.keyring_0.1.0_all.ipk on device castle-linux (80B23477E8F0EB72BB7E207009256C7CB64817FF:usb:52236)
Jan 01 03:03:15 <haeffb> jfelectron: I am rarely ever serious
Jan 01 03:03:17 <rwhitby> kridx1: have you seen PasswordMaker?
Jan 01 03:03:32 <kridx1> is that the app that just generates random passwords?
Jan 01 03:03:50 <rwhitby> kridx1: not random.  forward hash of site domain and master password.
Jan 01 03:03:57 <kridx1> ahh, yeah
Jan 01 03:04:04 <jfelectron> kridx1: if you novaterm.....can you check /media/cryptofs... to see if the app is there or not
Jan 01 03:04:07 <prototypic> kridx1: do you have luna manager?
Jan 01 03:04:13 <prototypic> try rescanning luna
Jan 01 03:04:20 <jfelectron> yes, just getting to that
Jan 01 03:04:22 <kridx1> "rescanning luna"?
Jan 01 03:04:24 <jfelectron> beat me to it!
Jan 01 03:04:38 <jfelectron> restart should do that though
Jan 01 03:04:43 <prototypic> tru
Jan 01 03:05:04 <jfelectron> Are you sure appinfo.json and sources.json are kosher?
Jan 01 03:05:26 <jfelectron> have they changed at all since you upgraded to 1.3.5?
Jan 01 03:05:32 <kridx1> Here's the full symptoms
Jan 01 03:05:36 <kridx1> I run palm-install
Jan 01 03:05:50 <kridx1> and the currently-running (old) version of the app closes
Jan 01 03:05:56 <kridx1> then I run palm-launch
Jan 01 03:06:02 <kridx1> and the old version launches
Jan 01 03:06:09 <kridx1> If I delete the old version
Jan 01 03:06:16 <rwhitby> kridx1: do you have a splashid import filter?
Jan 01 03:06:26 <kridx1> I can install, but then there's nothing to launch
Jan 01 03:06:31 <kridx1> rwhitby: not yet
Jan 01 03:06:31 <jfelectron> have you tried removing old and then doing palm-install?
Jan 01 03:06:44 <kridx1> jfelectron: 2-3 times now...
Jan 01 03:06:54 <jfelectron> what happens then?
Jan 01 03:07:00 <jfelectron> old not deleted?
Jan 01 03:07:09 <rwhitby> kridx1: I'm looking for an upgrade path from splashid, open source, with solid backup and desktop sync over wifi (using openssh sftp or something)
Jan 01 03:07:17 <kridx1> rwhitby: I've got a java converter for 'keyring for palmos' format
Jan 01 03:07:34 <kridx1> and another user is writing an extension to convert from some winmo format
Jan 01 03:07:56 <kridx1> he's also working on an csv converter
Jan 01 03:08:06 <kridx1> there's some discussion of this on the forum...
Jan 01 03:08:27 * rwhitby sees opportunities for authors to have functionality that depends on having other advanced homebrew installed ...
Jan 01 03:08:47 <jfelectron> Is there any easy method to figure out what is in the viewport? I see Mojo.View.visible....but it seems like you'd have to loop over all elements in say a list to figure it out
Jan 01 03:08:47 <kridx1> jfelectron: when I delete the old, it's deleted
Jan 01 03:09:08 <rwhitby> kridx1: does bumping the version number fix it?
Jan 01 03:09:09 <jfelectron> and you install new and...nothing?
Jan 01 03:09:20 <kridx1> haven't tried bumping version...
Jan 01 03:09:31 <kridx1> jfelectron: yup, nothing
Jan 01 03:09:36 <kridx1> lemme bump version...
Jan 01 03:10:04 <kridx1> well fuck my dog.
Jan 01 03:10:07 <kridx1> that worked
Jan 01 03:10:20 <kridx1> I was at 0.1.0
Jan 01 03:10:24 <kridx1> deleted that
Jan 01 03:10:24 <jfelectron> odd, but great
Jan 01 03:10:34 <kridx1> installed 0.0.6, deleted that
Jan 01 03:10:42 <kridx1> then tried to go back to 0.1.0, with no luck
Jan 01 03:10:49 <kridx1> that was an "upgrade"
Jan 01 03:11:03 <kridx1> but evidently not enough to satisfy whatever demonic force was in there
Jan 01 03:11:12 <kridx1> rwhitby is my hero
Jan 01 03:11:39 <kridx1> so now, after a 90 minute foray into madness, I can finally test the fix I was working on
Jan 01 03:12:07 <kridx1> It'd be great if the ^%$# emulator had a way to simulate a gesture-area press
Jan 01 03:12:20 <kridx1> so that you could paste into an dialog input
Jan 01 03:14:03 <kridx1> well, at least the bugfix worked
Jan 01 03:14:35 <kridx1> thanks again for walking thru this with me
Jan 01 03:16:01 <kridx1> rwhitby: keyring doesn't have any ssh/sftp support now or planned, but it does offer backup to a URL
Jan 01 03:16:28 <kridx1> there's an example python cgi that handles the other end of the conversation
Jan 01 03:17:02 <kridx1> and I'm considering building a google app-engine service for public consumption (or private forking) sometime next year
Jan 01 03:17:03 <rwhitby> kridx1: backup over sftp would be a deciding feature for me
Jan 01 03:17:17 <kridx1> https wouldn't be good enough?
Jan 01 03:17:28 <rwhitby> no way I'm letting my passwords go out over the internet
Jan 01 03:17:44 <kridx1> the backup format is blowfish encrypted
Jan 01 03:17:55 <kridx1> and you'd be sending them to your own server, over ssl
Jan 01 03:18:05 <kridx1> which is about the same as sftp
Jan 01 03:18:06 <rwhitby> doesn't matter.  mitm can apply offline attacks on it.
Jan 01 03:18:51 <rwhitby> all crypto algorithms will eventually be broken by brute force.  it's just a matter of time :-)  best thing is not to let them get the data in the first place.
Jan 01 03:18:57 <kridx1> If palm ever coughs up an API that allows me to write a file to the media partition, then you could sftp that via a cronjob or the like
Jan 01 03:19:24 <kridx1> I guess I don't understand the diff betw. sftp and https if both are going to your server
Jan 01 03:19:43 <rwhitby> kridx1: oh, to my server locally is fine
Jan 01 03:19:50 <kridx1> that's what I'm saying
Jan 01 03:20:03 <rwhitby> sorry, I thought you were referring to something live splashid live
Jan 01 03:20:13 <zsoc> i am a pretty cool guy
Jan 01 03:20:19 <kridx1> keyring will POST the export file to an arbitrary URL, which could point to your server
Jan 01 03:20:44 <kridx1> I'm planning on offering something like splashid live (I think, not having read up on it)
Jan 01 03:20:48 <kridx1> but as an option
Jan 01 03:21:02 <kridx1> for those folks who are less paranoid than you and I
Jan 01 03:21:05 <rwhitby> zsoc: apparently, you're a webOS hacker extraordinaire
Jan 01 03:21:31 <rwhitby> kridx1: cool, sounds like you've got things covered then.
Jan 01 03:21:41 <zsoc> rwhitby: I also didn't mean to type that out loud. Between the lack of sleep yesterday and some good old fashioned moon shine, i should be remove from consciousness
Jan 01 03:21:51 <zsoc> but now everyone knows what i'm thinking.
Jan 01 03:22:25 <zsoc> rwhitby: all hacker's can type 'make' :> i just type it extraordinairily
Jan 01 03:22:52 <rwhitby> zsoc: I'm going to get the SDL stuff into the autobuilder in the next few days
Jan 01 03:22:58 <rwhitby> then we can go to town
Jan 01 03:26:35 <kridx1> hey, y'all are the Doom guys
Jan 01 03:26:43 <kridx1> that's totally rockin!
Jan 01 03:27:00 <kridx1> I bow to your superior hacker skills
Jan 01 03:32:12 <zsoc> kridx1: nope
Jan 01 03:35:32 <jfelectron> doom is simulated world domination zsoc and rwhitby are about real world domination, one terminal at a time :)
Jan 01 03:39:55 <kridx1> rwhitby: Do you know what hashing method passwordmaker uses?
Jan 01 03:40:33 <kridx1> I thought about doing that a few months ago, but I was stymied by the lack of a secure hash function that produced sufficiently small output
Jan 01 03:40:50 <kridx1> nobody's going to stand for an md5-length password...
Jan 01 03:43:15 <jfelectron> just don't use the GSM hash...lol
Jan 01 03:43:23 <kridx1> oy
Jan 01 03:45:27 <rwhitby> kridx1: it can do a number of hashes
Jan 01 03:45:39 <rwhitby> kridx1: it's open source
Jan 01 03:45:58 <kridx1> You're talking about the windows shareware package?
Jan 01 03:46:36 <rwhitby> http://passwordmaker.org/
Jan 01 03:51:00 <kridx1> It'd be nice if the guy had a link to the source somewhere obvious...
Jan 01 03:52:41 <jfelectron> http://sourceforge.net/projects/passwordmaker/files/Javascript%20Edition/
Jan 01 03:52:48 <kridx1> yeah, I found it
Jan 01 03:57:01 <kridx1> I'll have a look at passwordmaker
Jan 01 03:57:13 <kridx1> since there's a javascript version, it wouldn't be hard to integrate it...
Jan 01 03:58:42 <jfelectron> looks that way
Jan 01 03:58:49 <jfelectron> just have to mojoize it
Jan 01 03:59:43 <jfelectron> actually, that'd be a cool project...develop a general mojoizer
Jan 01 04:00:57 <jfelectron> damn private events...many things that would be useful to listen to, but can't...ahhhhh
Jan 01 04:01:19 <kridx1> OK, I'm off to eat dinner and then start the drinking
Jan 01 04:01:25 <jfelectron> cheers
Jan 01 04:01:33 <kridx1> See y'all next decade
Jan 01 04:01:51 <haeffb> pttthhhhhbp.
Jan 01 04:02:01 <haeffb> next decade is still a year away
Jan 01 04:02:28 <haeffb> wait, I forgot, javascript programmers start counting at zero. nevermind.
Jan 01 04:02:35 <jfelectron> haeffb:  do you have mad srolling expertise? I need to tame this wild beast somehow
Jan 01 04:02:59 <haeffb> lol. I have no mad expertise whatsoever.
Jan 01 04:03:13 <haeffb> I'm just bumbling thru life
Jan 01 04:03:53 <jfelectron> internally the list calls validateScrollerPosition() or something like that, but it fails miserably
Jan 01 04:05:25 <haeffb> I seriously will be no help whatsoever.
Jan 01 04:05:59 <jfelectron> I need someone from palm on this, its their hackish code
Jan 01 04:06:11 <jfelectron> there are some really amusing comments in the refcode
Jan 01 04:07:58 <haeffb> somebody should compile a list of the comments for posterity
Jan 01 04:08:14 <haeffb> somebody with more free time than you or I, though.
Jan 01 04:08:35 <jfelectron> I'm thankful to have the refcode available, don't want to upset the beast too much
Jan 01 04:08:40 <rick_home> well,  I have no free time at all.
Jan 01 04:08:47 <rick_home> but what's the problem with scrolling?
Jan 01 04:09:24 <jfelectron> called noticeUpdaedItems() at various intervals after rendering causes what Palm calls 'various scrolling artifacts'
Jan 01 04:10:12 <jfelectron> basically the framework completely looses any sense of where you were in the scroller and scrolls all over the place
Jan 01 04:11:10 <jfelectron> this is likely exacerbated by the drawers, which initially seem to render open and then the framework closes then, which changes the height of the scroller
Jan 01 04:12:13 <rick_home> ahhh
Jan 01 04:12:21 <rick_home> that sounds.  ---  uh  --   icky
Jan 01 04:12:45 <haeffb> might be time to abandon the drawers
Jan 01 04:12:56 * haeffb thinking about using a dialog instead
Jan 01 04:13:29 <jfelectron> rick: I did solve my earlier problem....preventDefault() was the key
Jan 01 04:13:31 <rick_home> I've been thinking about coding a collapsing list menu using traditional css menu techniques,  because I know how they work.
Jan 01 04:13:53 <jfelectron> sounds sane
Jan 01 04:14:34 <rick_home> well then, too hellwith that.  Sanity is vastly overrated.  FIX THE SCROLLERS!!!!
Jan 01 04:15:23 <jfelectron> look  at the widget-scroller.js refcode...full of hackery
Jan 01 04:16:04 <jfelectron> I think I'm going to have to listen to the auto scrolling and then adjust appropriately
Jan 01 04:16:16 <jfelectron> Do you know how to figure out what you are 'looking' at?
Jan 01 04:16:37 <jfelectron> that is which list items are actually in the viewport?
Jan 01 04:17:23 <rick_home> you can ask any element for it's top.
Jan 01 04:17:44 <rick_home> so you can iterate the elements in the list and ask them for their top and you can figure out which ones are on the screen.
Jan 01 04:18:50 <jfelectron> OK, the iteration I was hoping to avoid through black magic..but I guess I'll have to that
Jan 01 04:19:17 <rick_home> black magic only goes so far.
Jan 01 04:19:29 <jfelectron> There is also Mojo.View.visible
Jan 01 04:19:37 <rick_home> if they didn't put a hackerish trick in the list code to tell you that....
Jan 01 04:20:13 <jfelectron> huh....don't follow your engrish
Jan 01 04:20:41 <rick_home> there's nothing feedbacking in the list model that tells you which items are visible.
Jan 01 04:20:58 <haeffb> jfelectron: while you're browsing around in the scroller, see if you can find why displaying a dialog causes scene to scroll to bottom
Jan 01 04:21:37 <rick_home> the problem with mojo.view.visible is that it returns true if the element AND ALL ITS ANCESTERS are visible.
Jan 01 04:21:44 <rick_home> partly due to Z-index issues.
Jan 01 04:22:03 <jfelectron> dialogs always appear at the bottom...but they should be modal, shouldn't alter the underlying scroller
Jan 01 04:22:07 <rick_home> and I'm not sure how it works on elements in lists, which, lets face it are only PARTIALLY visible
Jan 01 04:22:13 <haeffb> they are for me.
Jan 01 04:22:20 <rick_home> jfelectron true
Jan 01 04:22:20 <haeffb> and I don't know why
Jan 01 04:23:12 <jfelectron> Are there any *interesting* events apparent in the logs?
Jan 01 04:23:19 <jfelectron> or just mojo-scroll-starting?
Jan 01 04:24:06 <jfelectron> rick_home: yeah, the visibility thing and how drawer opening and closing is internally coded makes expanding all the drawers in a list a scrolling nightmare
Jan 01 04:24:37 <haeffb> there's nothing in the logs
Jan 01 04:24:57 <jfelectron> no mojo-scroll-starting?
Jan 01 04:25:03 <haeffb> nopers
Jan 01 04:25:15 <jfelectron> how are you generating the dialog...button press?
Jan 01 04:25:28 <haeffb> list tap event
Jan 01 04:25:28 <jfelectron> or otherwise tap
Jan 01 04:25:42 <haeffb> wait. not list.
Jan 01 04:26:42 <jfelectron> OK...try this: create a listener bound to the document on Mojo.Event.tap and in the handler check to make sure you
Jan 01 04:26:51 <jfelectron> you're tapping on whatever thing opens the dialog
Jan 01 04:27:05 <jfelectron> if that's true then do event.preventDefault()
Jan 01 04:27:20 <jfelectron> it *might* work
Jan 01 04:27:23 <haeffb> I have listener bound to the div
Jan 01 04:28:24 <jfelectron> OK...try throwing event.preventDefault() in there. I think it prevents whatever automatic behavior the event would normally generate in favor of the behavior YOU specify
Jan 01 04:28:37 <haeffb> nope, didn't help.
Jan 01 04:29:31 <haeffb> nor did event.stopPropagation();
Jan 01 04:30:02 <jfelectron> ahhh...crap...that's all I got until I troll through scroller more
Jan 01 04:30:36 <haeffb> let me pastebin...
Jan 01 04:30:43 <jfelectron> I might still try a separate listener bound to the document
Jan 01 04:31:32 <haeffb> end of setup() and the tap handler stuff:  http://www.pastie.org/763006
Jan 01 04:33:49 <jfelectron> rick has more event intuition than I, but don't all taps hit the document first?
Jan 01 04:34:32 <haeffb> example of bind to document?
Jan 01 04:35:17 <jfelectron> hold on
Jan 01 04:37:05 <jfelectron> http://www.pastie.org/763007
Jan 01 04:37:29 <jfelectron> But it might be a lost cause....the scroller is a tough beast to tame
Jan 01 04:37:57 <jfelectron> I've had no luck getting it to do my bidding....more virgin sacrifice required apparently
Jan 01 04:38:33 <jfelectron> there might be some downsides to the very general listener....haven
Jan 01 04:38:58 <jfelectron> haven't encountered any yet....but i make no guarantees :)
Jan 01 04:39:45 <haeffb> didn't help. but made the code slightly cleaner.
Jan 01 04:39:52 <haeffb> So I've got that going for me, which is nice.
Jan 01 04:39:58 <haeffb> thanks.
Jan 01 04:40:26 <jfelectron> OK....if I think of anything I'll give you a shoutout
Jan 01 04:40:43 <haeffb> have a good new year!
Jan 01 04:40:57 <jfelectron> I'm still mistified why you aren't seeing a mojo-scroll-starting
Jan 01 04:41:09 <jfelectron> did you change the log level?
Jan 01 04:41:17 <jfelectron> are you seeing other infos?
Jan 01 04:41:40 <haeffb> I'm using palm-log
Jan 01 04:41:54 <haeffb> does it screen out stuff?
Jan 01 04:41:57 <jfelectron> yeah, you should see it....strange
Jan 01 04:42:04 <jfelectron> this is emu?
Jan 01 04:42:07 <jfelectron> or device?
Jan 01 04:42:10 <haeffb> emu
Jan 01 04:42:14 <haeffb> log level 99
Jan 01 04:42:20 <haeffb> I see all my infos
Jan 01 04:42:43 <haeffb> and "about to activate scene" stuff
Jan 01 04:43:09 <haeffb> and "transition ended" stuff
Jan 01 04:43:17 <haeffb> but no mojo-scroll-starting
Jan 01 04:44:03 <haeffb> I don't recall ever seeing any scroller stuff in the logs
Jan 01 04:44:34 <jfelectron> huh...I see it all the time
Jan 01 04:44:48 <haeffb> are you adding your own scroller?
Jan 01 04:44:55 <haeffb> or just scene scroller?
Jan 01 04:45:31 <jfelectron> nope...default one
Jan 01 04:45:44 <jfelectron> I think the logLevel 99 might be the thing
Jan 01 04:45:48 <jfelectron> I don't have that set
Jan 01 04:46:17 <jfelectron> wouldn't surprise me that while they have that in the API docs, that it would do something strange
Jan 01 04:47:28 <haeffb> what r u using for logLevel?
Jan 01 04:48:16 <jfelectron> nothing.....whatever default  the emu has I guess
Jan 01 04:48:51 <jfelectron> mine is et to 20
Jan 01 04:49:13 <jfelectron> that's what Komodo/Templarian WebOS plugin generated
Jan 01 04:49:30 <haeffb> i tried 20, still don't see it.
Jan 01 04:49:31 <jfelectron> Also have "logEvents":true,
Jan 01 04:49:31 <jfelectron>   "debuggingEnabled":true,
Jan 01 04:49:37 <jfelectron> do you have those?
Jan 01 04:49:41 <haeffb> ah, no.
Jan 01 04:50:16 <jfelectron> well docummened of course!
Jan 01 04:51:16 <haeffb> well, now theres a lot more stuff in my logs
Jan 01 04:51:31 <jfelectron> yeah it makes it really verbose
Jan 01 04:51:43 <jfelectron> but it has helped me diagnose what the hell is going on sometimes
Jan 01 04:52:03 <jfelectron> anyway man....I'm going to hang it up for this decade
Jan 01 04:52:10 <jfelectron> have a good one!
Jan 01 04:52:29 <haeffb> Ok, thanks for the help. I'm going to just manually force a scroll back to top of the scene to get past it for now.
Jan 01 04:53:04 <jfelectron> the did the top thing, but its unsatisfying and annoying for the user......ahhhhh
Jan 01 04:54:19 <jfelectron> ciao
Jan 01 05:11:28 <Roy-Pre101> Last post for 2009:  http://bit.ly/5rSrJM
Jan 01 05:11:48 <Roy-Pre101> Technically not 2009 for me anymore, but who's counting?
Jan 01 05:16:00 <haeffb> woohoo! Agenda was selected one of the top homebrew apps of 2009!
Jan 01 05:18:36 <Roy-Pre101> woo
Jan 01 05:19:12 <Roy-Pre101> I wish I hadn't been so busy this season.  I would like to have done some more year-end articles, finished my apps, written a 2010 prediction, etc.
Jan 01 05:35:02 <JenP> awesome haeffb`!
Jan 01 05:37:58 <haeffb> 23 minutes and it's last years news.
Jan 01 05:43:56 <Bmyers> already is last years news..
Jan 01 05:44:19 <Bmyers> just played doom on the pre
Jan 01 05:44:56 <haeffb> doom is last years news.
Jan 01 05:45:06 <haeffb> I played it earlier today. Yesterday for you.
Jan 01 05:45:48 <Bmyers> it took me that long to type in all that crap
Jan 01 05:46:03 <Bmyers> couldnt someone have made fricken batch file?
Jan 01 05:46:34 <haeffb> yes. but that would detract from the anticipation
Jan 01 05:46:53 <Bmyers> no. no i dont think it would have..
Jan 01 05:46:57 <Bmyers> pretty cool tho..
Jan 01 05:47:04 <Bmyers> brings back memories.
Jan 01 05:47:14 <Bmyers> barney doom was my favorite..
Jan 01 05:49:37 <Bmyers> congrats on Agenda
Jan 01 06:08:58 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: how are you liking Doom ?
Jan 01 06:09:27 <Roy-Pre101> As much as I liked it on the PC.
Jan 01 06:09:38 <Roy-Pre101> Which really isn't saying much, but it runs nicely.
Jan 01 06:09:43 <rwhitby> Bmyers: working on the upstartmgr service right now ...
Jan 01 06:15:55 <JenP> hey guys...does the help scene created by Palm from our appinfo not allow us to add a menu?
Jan 01 06:17:36 <hackNperl> is there a way to edit your palm profile so it only backups contacts and not the patches and settings that were made avaiable through the "hacks"
Jan 01 06:18:28 <hackNperl> i ended up haviong to create a new palm prfile and reset my pre so that it would get rid of the settings that were causing my battery not to charge... one of the tweeks i did made the battery say it was charging but never actually charged....
Jan 01 08:58:27 <JenP> Happy New Year!!!!
Jan 01 09:01:50 <Adora> JenP: Happy new year!
Jan 01 09:02:15 <JenP> Adora!! Happy New Year...I haven't seen you in here in awhile. how are you?
Jan 01 09:02:23 <Adora> super
Jan 01 09:02:27 <Adora> trying to have a vacation
Jan 01 09:02:44 <Adora> mostly failing  =]
Jan 01 09:02:53 <JenP> LOL
Jan 01 09:02:57 <JenP> i hear you there.
Jan 01 09:03:11 <rwhitby> FYI: We've not got DOOM! working from the icon ;-)
Jan 01 09:03:21 <JenP> go rwhitby!
Jan 01 09:03:43 <Adora> tonight is so awesome
Jan 01 09:03:46 <Adora> I love all you guys
Jan 01 09:03:57 <JenP> Adora is things crazy with CES coming up?
Jan 01 09:04:01 <JenP> ah we love you too
Jan 01 09:04:17 <Adora> wee bit crazy
Jan 01 09:04:20 <Adora> just a teeny tiny bit
Jan 01 09:04:43 <JenP> I can only imagine. You all have been on hyper drive
Jan 01 09:06:01 <JenP> hey i keep getting an install fail anyone else having this problem?
Jan 01 09:08:49 <JenP> #join webosinternals
Jan 01 09:08:57 <Roy-Pre101> Adora: Good job to all at Palm.
Jan 01 09:09:09 <Roy-Pre101> And Happy New Year!
Jan 01 09:09:27 <JenP> happy new year roy!
Jan 01 09:09:32 <Adora> hey roy, happy new year!
Jan 01 09:09:46 * Adora gives Roy-Pre101 a hearty toast
Jan 01 09:09:50 <Roy-Pre101> I'm not sure why I'm awake at 4:00. :P
Jan 01 09:10:07 <Roy-Pre101> Can you put some peanut butter and jelly on the toast?  I'm hungry.
Jan 01 09:10:14 <JenP> lol
Jan 01 09:10:43 <Adora> hahah
Jan 01 09:11:40 <kesne> Hey all!
Jan 01 09:12:03 <JenP> Hey kesne!
Jan 01 09:12:23 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: you're awake to be the first to test the DOOM! launcher
Jan 01 09:12:29 <rwhitby> no more terminal
Jan 01 09:14:52 <kesne> JenP: Hey! Happy new years!
Jan 01 09:15:00 <kesne> Keen Studios has big plans for 2010
Jan 01 09:15:03 <JenP> to you to!!
Jan 01 09:15:12 <JenP> that's great!
Jan 01 09:15:17 <kesne> Random Space will be nice
Jan 01 09:15:28 <kesne> We just posted a teaser on Twitter
Jan 01 09:15:45 <JenP> I will be submitting a new app today!
Jan 01 09:15:48 <JenP> awesome
Jan 01 09:16:09 <kesne> Oh what app?
Jan 01 09:16:40 <JenP> it's a wallpaper app that showcases Josh's pin up art
Jan 01 09:16:44 <JenP> wanna see?
Jan 01 09:17:30 <kesne> Sure!
Jan 01 09:17:48 <JenP> PM email address...
Jan 01 09:19:03 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: I can be first?  Neato.
Jan 01 09:19:18 <Roy-Pre101> You'd think the guy who wrote it would test it...
Jan 01 09:19:29 <JenP> it's on its way
Jan 01 09:19:30 <Roy-Pre101> ;)
Jan 01 09:19:58 <Roy-Pre101> So, how do I get it?
Jan 01 09:23:47 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: will be in public feed soon
Jan 01 09:25:06 <Roy-Pre101> That's simple enough.  I think I'll wait 'til I get a few hours of sleep then
Jan 01 09:25:50 <JenP> well guys time for me to get some sleep. TTYT
Jan 01 09:25:53 <JenP> nite
Jan 01 09:26:51 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: I suspect in a week or so we'll get a peek at the official way to get this stuff to work correctly in a card.
Jan 01 09:28:50 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: it's up
Jan 01 09:29:07 <rwhitby> Adora: update feeds and install doom
Jan 01 09:31:30 <zomg> Blah. Rendering moving clouds on canvas -> way slow
Jan 01 09:45:39 <Tibfib> Congrats PALM, 1000 apps!
Jan 01 12:39:34 <_ivanst_> happy new year folks!
Jan 01 13:13:15 <psi_> hi
Jan 01 13:13:36 <psi_> happy new year, to those who already arrived...
Jan 01 13:18:06 <_ivanst_> some of us in the more eastward time zones already had the time to shake off our hangovers :D
Jan 01 13:18:25 <psi_> ;)
Jan 01 13:19:12 <psi_> in what kind of format does the addressbook save its contacts?
Jan 01 13:20:35 <lt83850> anyone know if the new update allows for animated background via GIF or any other solution?
Jan 01 13:21:03 <lt83850> happy new year all!!
Jan 01 13:34:58 <_ivanst_> since palm is already fiddling with pushing the limits everywhere, i don't understand why they don't just embrace APNG and be done with it
Jan 01 13:37:17 <lt83850> i agree
Jan 01 13:39:50 <FreeTim3> yes Happy New Year!
Jan 01 13:50:23 <FreeTim3> I'm doing webOSdoctor for the first time (several of my apps would not reinstall)
Jan 01 13:50:47 <FreeTim3> When I'm done the very first thing I'm doing is installing DOOM!   http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Doom
Jan 01 13:50:59 <FreeTim3> One must have One's Priorities
Jan 01 13:52:11 <FreeTim3> ok, maybe the second thing.  The very first thing I'm doing is copying  my MP3s back onto the phone
Jan 01 14:07:53 <rjtaylor> hello question I have a table with two <td> in it and both are set to width=40% however sometimes the second td will stretch beyond the edge of the screen http://webos.pastebin.com/m5c8681a2
Jan 01 14:11:50 <rjtaylor> good morning and Happy new year all is any one here
Jan 01 14:12:59 <FreeTim3> Yep, but we are all drunk on our palm Pre apps
Jan 01 14:14:18 <FreeTim3> I can't answer your question - I'm not too good at tables / styles.  Perhaps someone else here can chime in ?
Jan 01 14:14:33 <swisstomcat> hi .. good new year to everyone
Jan 01 14:15:06 <swisstomcat> what's the question?
Jan 01 14:15:49 <swisstomcat> oh, i just got my developer contact at palm :)
Jan 01 14:16:09 <FreeTim3> Congrats swisstomcat !  That's a step forward eh?
Jan 01 14:16:16 <swisstomcat> yup
Jan 01 14:16:51 <swisstomcat> whoa, they want to know a lot of stuff from me
Jan 01 14:18:14 <FreeTim3> Just give them the standard answers, you know your name, age, and that you like rock climbing and PTA meetings, and long walks together on the beach
Jan 01 14:18:45 <swisstomcat> heh
Jan 01 14:18:55 <swisstomcat> i don't have a company name tho
Jan 01 14:18:55 <FreeTim3> wow the webOSDoctor has totally halted becuase my Google, Facebook and email accounts don't all use the same password. I'ts been stuck on the login to Google page now for ten minutes
Jan 01 14:20:26 <FreeTim3> grrrr.  Attention any Palm employees: these are SUPPOSEd to have different passwords , it's intentional
Jan 01 14:24:46 <FreeTim3> aren't you STC Inc. ?
Jan 01 14:25:14 <FreeTim3> or you know Tacmotssiws Inc
Jan 01 14:25:27 <swisstomcat> nah
Jan 01 14:25:33 <swisstomcat> i'm not a company at all
Jan 01 14:26:45 <_ivanst_> when the fsck will germany/europe see 1.3.5... for fsck's sake...
Jan 01 14:26:56 <swisstomcat> yeah, good question
Jan 01 14:26:59 <swisstomcat> soon i hope
Jan 01 14:27:09 <swisstomcat> and the full app catalog including paid apps
Jan 01 14:27:38 <swisstomcat> and the ability to run doom :)
Jan 01 14:27:44 <_ivanst_> i feel like a neurotic maniac, clicking refresh every few hours to see if palm possibly decided to surprise us with 1.3.5 for the new year...
Jan 01 14:28:05 <swisstomcat> it will probably take 2 weeks like the last time (1.3.1)
Jan 01 14:34:28 <rjtaylor> hello question I have a table with two <td> in it and both are set to width=40% however sometimes the second td will stretch beyond the edge of the screen http://webos.pastebin.com/m5c8681a2
Jan 01 14:35:47 <swisstomcat> rjtaylor: why a table?
Jan 01 14:36:22 <rjtaylor> trying to have two list widgets next to each other is there a better way
Jan 01 14:36:34 <rjtaylor> state and zipcode
Jan 01 14:37:03 <swisstomcat> a div should work too
Jan 01 14:37:33 <swisstomcat> let me see if i can find an example
Jan 01 14:37:40 <rjtaylor> wouldn't a div go next line i have divs in the table
Jan 01 14:40:04 <swisstomcat> let me try a few things
Jan 01 14:40:12 <rjtaylor> k
Jan 01 14:47:56 <swisstomcat> hmm
Jan 01 14:47:59 <swisstomcat> found some stuff
Jan 01 14:48:05 <swisstomcat> in the developer forum
Jan 01 14:48:38 <rjtaylor> yeah
Jan 01 14:49:15 <swisstomcat> http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1096&hilit=width
Jan 01 14:50:56 <rjtaylor> that might help thanks
Jan 01 14:51:38 <rjtaylor> i wounder if mv-value" class controls the width of the text.
Jan 01 14:51:42 <swisstomcat> you could also try ares to make the layout
Jan 01 14:52:24 <rjtaylor> ares is the web version of the sdk right
Jan 01 14:52:52 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jan 01 14:53:01 <swisstomcat> ares.palm.com
Jan 01 14:53:10 <rjtaylor> thanks
Jan 01 15:22:45 <Pat_mobile> hello all
Jan 01 15:23:00 <Pat_mobile> Happy New Year!
Jan 01 15:26:25 <Bmyers> happy new year 2 u
Jan 01 15:27:19 <Pat_mobile> Just wandering if there are any webos experts in the house?
Jan 01 15:27:48 <Bmyers> 111 of 'em in this one
Jan 01 15:29:55 <Pat_mobile> cool. I have a question regarding ajax and the asynchronousity of it all.
Jan 01 15:30:21 <swisstomcat> hi pat
Jan 01 15:30:48 <Pat_mobile> hey swiss, happy new year.
Jan 01 15:31:23 <haeffb_gon4coffe> how long are haeffb_pre and haeffb-pre gonna live on in here?
Jan 01 15:31:42 <Bmyers> r u sure there is just one of u?
Jan 01 15:32:04 <Bmyers> Pat: gotta love async calls..
Jan 01 15:32:05 <haeffb_gon4coffe> weird. when I said haeffb_pre, wirc sent me a notification
Jan 01 15:32:12 <haeffb_gon4coffe> did it again
Jan 01 15:32:16 <swisstomcat> pat: happy new year to you too
Jan 01 15:32:17 <Bmyers> yeah..
Jan 01 15:32:21 <Bmyers> it does that.
Jan 01 15:32:31 <haeffb_gon4coffe> but I'm logged in as haeffb_wirc
Jan 01 15:32:39 <haeffb_gon4coffe> did it again
Jan 01 15:32:52 <Bmyers> haeffb_wirc echo
Jan 01 15:33:11 <Bmyers> he's  gone, we can talk about him now
Jan 01 15:33:19 <haeffb_gon4coffe> good lets.
Jan 01 15:33:23 <haeffb_gon4coffe> oops.
Jan 01 15:33:24 <Bmyers> sshhhh, he's back
Jan 01 15:33:24 <Pat_mobile> When calling an ajax request on a file, mp3, the call seems to run extremely slow.
Jan 01 15:33:36 <haeffb_gon4coffe> bbiab
Jan 01 15:33:45 <Bmyers> l8r haeffe
Jan 01 15:34:11 <Bmyers> how slow Pat?
Jan 01 15:34:44 <Pat_mobile> I was under the impression from what U read about ajax and being async is that..
Jan 01 15:35:27 <Pat_mobile> the process should be done in the background.
Jan 01 15:36:00 <Bmyers> sort of, the success callback is..
Jan 01 15:36:11 <Bmyers> and failure callback
Jan 01 15:36:34 <Bmyers> it might be taking a long time to determine if the call failed or was successful
Jan 01 15:37:04 <Bmyers> WAG anyway..
Jan 01 15:37:25 <Pat_mobile> ok so what about the process of putting the file into responseText, is that part async?
Jan 01 15:37:50 <Pat_mobile> It is currently pulling from media/internal
Jan 01 15:40:31 <Bmyers> it's part of the success or failure callbacks? then yes i would imagine you r in async world
Jan 01 15:41:18 <Pat_mobile> I mean, the entire process works and is successful, it just seems to take like 5-6 seconds to get the file from the media/internal.
Jan 01 15:43:08 <Bmyers> try a small mp3
Jan 01 15:43:35 <Bmyers> if it doesnt make a difference then you get some clues
Jan 01 15:43:48 <Pat_mobile> I thought that it would fetch the file asyncly, with no stall time (multi threaded), and have all the variables loaded when done., as it stands I gonna need a spinner. Would that be normal to have spinner for an ajax call?
Jan 01 15:44:21 <swisstomcat> i usually do spinners for external ajax calls
Jan 01 15:44:44 <swisstomcat> 3g/evdo is slower than you think sometimes .. good to know what's going on
Jan 01 15:45:29 <Pat_mobile> swiss, these calls are from within to within. media/internal is where the file resides.
Jan 01 15:46:17 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jan 01 15:46:24 <swisstomcat> i understand
Jan 01 15:46:42 <swisstomcat> if you have long load times, good thing to have a spinner
Jan 01 15:49:46 <FreeTim3> a spinner AND a timeout in case it never does complete
Jan 01 15:50:04 <FreeTim3> Like, the phone holder enters the subway with no connectivity for example
Jan 01 15:51:37 <swisstomcat> yeah, but what if you do an internal ajax call?
Jan 01 15:51:40 <Deihmos> with the new update wifi stays on at all times
Jan 01 15:51:41 <Deihmos> sweet
Jan 01 15:51:48 <Deihmos> battery life is so much better
Jan 01 15:52:05 <swisstomcat> why would the battery life be better if wifi stays on all times?
Jan 01 15:52:23 <Deihmos> it has been 2 hours still at 100%
Jan 01 15:52:43 <Deihmos> better because before it disconnected wifi and connected to evdo
Jan 01 15:53:02 <Deihmos> i am sure evdo pulls more battery especially on a weak signal
Jan 01 15:54:37 <swisstomcat> are there standard icons for e.g command menus? i'm looking for arrow up/down
Jan 01 15:56:17 <Bmyers> swiss: did u look in the sdk?
Jan 01 15:57:39 <Pat_mobile> I don't believe there is an up/down arrow, you have to create your own.
Jan 01 15:58:00 <swisstomcat> i'm browsing through the sdk images at the moment
Jan 01 15:59:10 <swisstomcat> nothing to be found
Jan 01 15:59:45 <haeffb> does palm allow use of the icons in the palm apps?
Jan 01 16:01:15 <swisstomcat> probably
Jan 01 16:01:24 <swisstomcat> arrows are pretty generic
Jan 01 16:01:24 <Pat_mobile> ok, so the consesus is... that the ajax calls could still delay your app flow, even though it's considered async?
Jan 01 16:01:48 <swisstomcat> i'd think so
Jan 01 16:02:14 <swisstomcat> what does your app do with the call? reading an mp3 and then?
Jan 01 16:02:25 <Pat_mobile> just want to make sure I am not missing anything before looking like an idiot with an ajax/spinner routine.
Jan 01 16:02:37 <haeffb_gotcoffee> I'm not well versed in the architecture of webOS, but I do not think apps are multi-threaded
Jan 01 16:02:46 <Pat_mobile> swiss, reading the mp3 then parsing for the id3 tag
Jan 01 16:02:53 <swisstomcat> and then?
Jan 01 16:03:01 <swisstomcat> can you do something before you have the id3 tag?
Jan 01 16:03:20 <swisstomcat> with the app i mean
Jan 01 16:03:49 <Pat_mobile> not really, it goes from the filepicker directly to the ajax call
Jan 01 16:04:22 <Pat_mobile> the file picker provides the file path, the ajax call seeks the file.
Jan 01 16:05:14 <swisstomcat> in that case the async nature of the call doesn't really help, because you can't do anything before you get the results from the call
Jan 01 16:05:37 <swisstomcat> what happens after you get the id3 tag?
Jan 01 16:06:00 <Pat_mobile> and that filepicker, is a peice of work in of itself, but that's a different topic for a different day!
Jan 01 16:06:29 <Pat_mobile> after the id3 tag, the screen is populated with specs from the mp3
Jan 01 16:07:06 <swisstomcat> in the same scene?
Jan 01 16:07:15 <Pat_mobile> yes
Jan 01 16:07:25 <swisstomcat> is that screen displayed after you pick your file?
Jan 01 16:08:18 <swisstomcat> or is there your delay of 6 seconds before it's displayed?
Jan 01 16:08:52 <Pat_mobile> yes 6 seconds before, the filepicker creates sought of a multi-app situation.
Jan 01 16:09:41 <swisstomcat> after 6 seconds you finally see the results of the call in the screen
Jan 01 16:11:04 <Pat_mobile> so the picker is in use, user tap line from list, picker is suppose to Onchoose, call the ajax request, and so the delay happens as soon as the user taps the list line from picker, and before the results are displayed, whereas the ajax is in between that holding everything up.
Jan 01 16:11:29 <swisstomcat> oh
Jan 01 16:11:40 <swisstomcat> that should not be i think
Jan 01 16:12:01 <Pat_mobile> I eliminated the ajax, and there is now delay with the picker.
Jan 01 16:12:07 <swisstomcat> the result screen should be displayed but without results
Jan 01 16:12:13 <Pat_mobile> NO delay.
Jan 01 16:12:19 <haeffb_gotcoffee> Bmyers: is the old PalmOS paradigm that you can't delete "unfiled" ?
Jan 01 16:13:06 <Bmyers> yes
Jan 01 16:13:12 <Bmyers> haeefb, that is correct
Jan 01 16:13:24 <haeffb_gotcoffee> but you can delete bus & pers
Jan 01 16:13:45 <haeffb_gotcoffee> will mimic that behavior, then.
Jan 01 16:13:46 <Pat_mobile> swiss, there we go, it should continue nowmal flow of the script and when the results are ready the variables are ready correct?
Jan 01 16:13:56 <Bmyers> haeffeb: correct
Jan 01 16:14:13 <swisstomcat> pat: i would assume so
Jan 01 16:14:34 <swisstomcat> pat: file-picker -> display empty results - fill in results as soon as they are ready
Jan 01 16:14:47 <Bmyers> hey wait a sec. how do i know this is the REAL haeffb and not some rouge ghost haeffe?
Jan 01 16:15:36 <Pat_mobile> Any ideas where to look, I am using the prototype ajax call.
Jan 01 16:16:24 <Pat_mobile> I tried setting async to true in the parameters, but heck, its suppose to be set that way by default
Jan 01 16:16:29 <haeffb_gotcoffee> Bmyers: good question. I don't even know.
Jan 01 16:17:20 <swisstomcat> pat: can you show some code? that way i can compare it to the stuff in my app which does async ajax calls too
Jan 01 16:17:55 <haeffb_gotcoffee> array.pop(index) works....?
Jan 01 16:18:18 <Pat_mobile> yeah, ah... postbin or right here?
Jan 01 16:18:28 <haeffb_gotcoffee> if I want to remove the 3rd item in a 5 item array:  array.pop(2);
Jan 01 16:19:03 <swisstomcat> pat: postbin
Jan 01 16:19:36 <Pat_mobile> ok, gimme a couple minutes........
Jan 01 16:21:37 <Bmyers> is that not working haeffb?
Jan 01 16:26:48 <haeffb_gotcoffee> yes, it is, but the docs I looked at didn't show the ability to include an index.
Jan 01 16:29:17 <Pat_mobile> swiss, http://pastebin.com/d62c20719
Jan 01 16:29:58 <swisstomcat> let me look at it
Jan 01 16:36:02 <swisstomcat> pat: what do you do on onSuccess?
Jan 01 16:36:10 <haeffb_gotcoffee> anybody have any luck changing modelProperty of a listSelector to something besides "value"?
Jan 01 16:36:38 <swisstomcat> pat: the thisobj.getresponse(str);
Jan 01 16:37:04 <swisstomcat> pat: wouldn't you do something similar as with onFailure?
Jan 01 16:38:34 <Pat_mobile> yes, that just goes to the parser, the delay happens even if I do not call the getResponse. If I commented out teh get Response and put a innerHTML there it would still do the same thing, delay.
Jan 01 16:39:10 <Pat_mobile> well, the onsuccess, sends to the parser, since it is good.
Jan 01 16:39:26 <Pat_mobile> the onFailure notifies me of a failure.
Jan 01 16:40:58 <swisstomcat> pat: strange
Jan 01 16:41:12 <Pat_mobile> yep, i'll say!
Jan 01 16:43:20 <Pat_mobile> any ideas?
Jan 01 16:44:37 <Pat_mobile> would the javascript native ajax call help, as opposed to using the prototype version, prototype is the slowest library of the bunch, I hear.
Jan 01 16:45:25 <Pat_mobile> not sure why palm even chose prototype, over let's say jquery!?
Jan 01 16:45:30 <swisstomcat> no idea .. i assumed internal ajax calls would work the same as external ones
Jan 01 16:47:15 <Pat_mobile> even though I can still use jquery, it will add to the paylaod of my app. Yep, I'm trapped in the lost zone with this one.
Jan 01 16:48:17 <Pat_mobile> can someone resue me from the lost zone... :-(
Jan 01 16:49:10 <Pat_mobile> any swiss, thanks for your time and once again have a good new year.
Jan 01 16:49:29 <haeffb_gotcoffee> Bmyers: ping
Jan 01 16:50:33 <swisstomcat> pat: did u check the palm developer forums?
Jan 01 16:51:09 <haeffb_gotcoffee> is SQLite PRIMARY KEY ever 0? or does it always start with 1?
Jan 01 16:51:34 <Pat_mobile> yeah, there is nothing pertaining to my problem there. Just some overall ajax stuff, which does not apply to my issue.
Jan 01 16:51:49 <Pat_mobile> gotcoffe, always starts with 1.
Jan 01 16:52:41 <haeffb_gotcoffee> cool. so I can use an index of 0 for a default value that will always be available, and higher indexes for values that user can add/modify/delete.
Jan 01 16:53:21 <Pat_mobile> yep.
Jan 01 16:55:48 <Pat_mobile> haeffb, are you referring to indexes from a list?... if so be careful, indexes from a list  can not matchup correctly with keys, once deleting from the list starts to happen.
Jan 01 16:56:23 <haeffb> yes, I know. meant, primary key value of "0"
Jan 01 16:56:31 <haeffb> deleting that from a db will fail.
Jan 01 16:57:16 <haeffb> I store the key in the listModel.items, and use the key to delete from the db
Jan 01 16:58:01 <Pat_mobile> yeah, ok. You got it.
Jan 01 16:58:45 <Pat_mobile> boy, I wish someone had some ajax answers for me.
Jan 01 16:59:21 <haeffb> sorry, all my Ajax has been simple stuff
Jan 01 17:00:45 <Pat_mobile> nah, it's ok, I will figure something out. I usually always do, albeit 3+ weeks later. hahahaha.
Jan 01 17:53:04 <JenP> Good morning all!
Jan 01 18:02:04 <JenP> hi LoneStar20
Jan 01 18:09:23 <LoneStar20> howdy JenP\
Jan 01 18:09:28 <LoneStar20> playing world of goo
Jan 01 18:13:26 <JenP> cool it's a good game...PC or Wii?
Jan 01 18:13:57 <swisstomcat> yeah, i loved world of goo too
Jan 01 18:14:16 <LoneStar20> Wii yeah it is cool
Jan 01 18:16:22 <natenrb9> rwhitby: you helped with this newest doom port right? is there a way to switch guns?
Jan 01 18:16:44 <LoneStar20> happy new year to all btw
Jan 01 18:17:28 <natenrb9> nevermind got it
Jan 01 18:17:41 <natenrb9> rwhitby: nice work btw!
Jan 01 18:33:00 <haeffb> watching mythbusters
Jan 01 18:33:24 <haeffb> exploding disposable propane lighters ftw
Jan 01 18:34:28 <JenP> morning haeffb!
Jan 01 18:35:30 * swisstomcat is trying to parse the dom ... again
Jan 01 18:35:31 <haeffb> hi jenp
Jan 01 18:38:37 <haeffb> Ok, I tried to figure this out long ago, and never could.  Here's the scenario:
Jan 01 18:39:21 <haeffb> I have a listSelectorModel with choices: {label: 'label1', value: 1}, {label: 'label2', value: 2}
Jan 01 18:39:51 <haeffb> user selecte one of the choices, so listSelectorModel.value = X.
Jan 01 18:40:02 <haeffb> how do I easily grab the label that corresponds to X?
Jan 01 18:40:16 <haeffb> is the only way to loop through the choices array?
Jan 01 18:42:24 <JenP> idk haeffb but that sounds right to me. I haven't seen any other way so far
Jan 01 18:48:56 <swisstomcat> it works different in a list
Jan 01 18:49:04 <swisstomcat> but there you also have a taphandler
Jan 01 18:49:37 <haeffb> yeah, I can get the index and grab stuff easily there. ListSelectors, not so much.
Jan 01 18:49:47 <haeffb> wait. I could get the tap event on the list selector... ?
Jan 01 18:50:06 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jan 01 18:50:11 <swisstomcat> i just saw that
Jan 01 18:50:32 <swisstomcat> mojo.event.listen("listselectorid",mojo.event.propertychange,this.handleupdate)
Jan 01 18:51:14 <haeffb> and the propertychange event gives the selected index... ?
Jan 01 18:51:19 <haeffb> I can make that work.
Jan 01 18:54:10 <swisstomcat> that should work like in a list
Jan 01 18:59:31 <haeffb> EntryAssistant.prototype.doVehicleListSelector = function(event){
Jan 01 18:59:31 <haeffb> 	Mojo.Log.info("Event, %j", event);
Jan 01 18:59:31 <haeffb> 	this.vehicleIndex = event.value;
Jan 01 18:59:31 <haeffb> }
Jan 01 18:59:51 <haeffb> then I can use this.vehicleIndex elswhere in the assistant. Nice.
Jan 01 19:03:55 <LoneStar20> what is the best way to save a few values on WebOS?  like username?
Jan 01 19:04:06 <swisstomcat> cookies
Jan 01 19:04:08 <swisstomcat> or dept
Jan 01 19:04:10 <swisstomcat> depot
Jan 01 19:04:18 <LoneStar20> ok
Jan 01 19:04:26 <LoneStar20> something simple
Jan 01 19:04:35 <swisstomcat> probably a cookie
Jan 01 19:04:36 <natenrb9> if its just a couple values use a cookie
Jan 01 19:04:37 <haeffb> cookies
Jan 01 19:04:39 <LoneStar20> can i keep like 20 values in one cookie?
Jan 01 19:04:45 <natenrb9> yes
Jan 01 19:04:46 <haeffb> < 4k yes
Jan 01 19:05:24 <LoneStar20> 4k in size?
Jan 01 19:05:34 * haeffb needs a roadmap of my code. Getting lost.
Jan 01 19:05:48 <haeffb> yes, cookies are limited to 4k
Jan 01 19:06:09 <haeffb> in size
Jan 01 19:06:11 <haeffb> total
Jan 01 19:06:22 <haeffb> although you can have multiple cookies
Jan 01 19:07:15 <LoneStar20> k
Jan 01 19:14:28 <swisstomcat> wohoo
Jan 01 19:14:54 <swisstomcat> my new app will be done soon
Jan 01 19:16:30 <haeffb_wirc> woohoo
Jan 01 19:16:43 <haeffb_wirc> mine still needs work
Jan 01 19:19:11 <swisstomcat> well, i'm sure you know the 80/20 percent rule :)
Jan 01 19:19:25 <swisstomcat> i.e the devil is in the details
Jan 01 19:20:27 <bpadalino> 80% done with the app .. just 80% left!
Jan 01 19:21:14 <haeffb_wirc> but it's getting close
Jan 01 19:55:14 <swisstomcat> if i use icon:'back' in a commandmenu, where does that back-arrow come from?
Jan 01 19:56:41 <rick_home> the images in framework
Jan 01 19:57:08 <swisstomcat> e.g menu-icon-back.png
Jan 01 19:57:46 <swisstomcat> a transparent png with two arrows in it .. hmmm
Jan 01 19:58:00 <swisstomcat> i want to create my own e.g a down-facing arrow
Jan 01 20:01:35 <bmyers_pre> hiya
Jan 01 20:01:39 <swisstomcat> hey
Jan 01 20:01:54 <rick_home> swisstomcat  override the css.
Jan 01 20:01:55 <bmyers_pre> on the road again..
Jan 01 20:02:21 <swisstomcat> rick_home: i can't follow you
Jan 01 20:02:35 <swisstomcat> i'm trying to turn the arrow in gimp
Jan 01 20:03:18 <prototypic> weird my app got approved by palm but only reason I knew was because I am getting support requests.
Jan 01 20:03:27 <prototypic> palm never told me it was live ;/
Jan 01 20:03:35 <swisstomcat> heh
Jan 01 20:03:40 <swisstomcat> which one, prototypic?
Jan 01 20:03:52 <prototypic> browser marks
Jan 01 20:03:55 <haeffb_wirc> they never do
Jan 01 20:03:58 <prototypic> oic
Jan 01 20:04:04 <prototypic> well that's good to know
Jan 01 20:04:27 <prototypic> anyway
Jan 01 20:04:38 * prototypic does happy dance, got my foot in the door
Jan 01 20:04:56 <bmyers_pre> congrats
Jan 01 20:06:32 <prototypic> thanks
Jan 01 20:06:45 <haeffb_wirc> bmyers_pre: need to discuss stuff
Jan 01 20:07:03 <catalystmediastu> What section is the documentation for copying to the clipboard under?
Jan 01 20:07:21 <bmyers_pre> pm me?
Jan 01 20:07:23 <LoneStar20> world of goo is too addictive
Jan 01 20:08:21 <haeffb_wirc> yo
Jan 01 20:08:21 <prototypic> my 4 year old daughter's favorite game is world of goo, I fell in love with it when it came out early last year and she saw me playing it on wii and now it's all she plays
Jan 01 20:08:58 <swisstomcat> oh, didn't even know it was available on the wii
Jan 01 20:09:08 <swisstomcat> had in on my pc for a while ... great stuff
Jan 01 20:09:15 <prototypic> wii allows 2 people to controll gooballs
Jan 01 20:09:17 <prototypic> :)
Jan 01 20:09:46 <prototypic> so with good timing you can do some nifty tricks
Jan 01 20:10:04 <swisstomcat> cool
Jan 01 20:11:59 <LoneStar20> wii rocks
Jan 01 20:13:37 <prototypic> btw swisstomcat: http://goofans.com/
Jan 01 20:19:33 <Tibfib> can anyone help me with the palm api: Mojo.Controller.StageController.getScenes() ?
Jan 01 20:19:38 <Tibfib> like how does it work?
Jan 01 20:19:59 <swisstomcat> what do you want to do?
Jan 01 20:20:18 <Tibfib> Well I'm wondering what it does... Id like to check how many scenes are on the stack
Jan 01 20:20:29 <swisstomcat> Return an array of scene controllers on the stack.
Jan 01 20:20:37 <swisstomcat> http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1798
Jan 01 20:20:42 <Tibfib> Yep saw that
Jan 01 20:21:06 <swisstomcat> guess you could count that array
Jan 01 20:21:56 <Tibfib> Ah, my difficulty is probably in the fact that I havent used arrays much and in turn, don't understand it
Jan 01 20:22:21 <swisstomcat> how much code have you got?
Jan 01 20:22:31 <swisstomcat> for getscenes
Jan 01 20:22:41 <Tibfib> nothing
Jan 01 20:22:46 <Tibfib> just trying to understand it
Jan 01 20:22:48 <swisstomcat> not much :)
Jan 01 20:23:52 <Tibfib> are there any other apis that return the number of scenes on the stack?
Jan 01 20:24:45 <swisstomcat> var scenes=Mojo.Controller.StageController.getScenes()
Jan 01 20:24:55 <swisstomcat> scenes.length
Jan 01 20:25:04 <swisstomcat> try it
Jan 01 20:26:16 <Tibfib> Alright thanks I am now
Jan 01 20:31:47 <Tibfib> hmmm for now I'm just testing it and doing this...var scenes=Mojo.Controller.StageController.getScenes();
Jan 01 20:31:48 <Tibfib> document.getElementById('result').innerHTML = scenes.length;
Jan 01 20:32:00 <Tibfib> isn't working
Jan 01 20:32:30 <swisstomcat> what happens?
Jan 01 20:32:43 <Tibfib> Scene doesn't display properly
Jan 01 20:32:52 <swisstomcat> what does the log say?
Jan 01 20:36:14 <Tibfib1> any idea?
Jan 01 20:36:35 <swisstomcat> what does the log say?
Jan 01 20:36:51 <Tibfib1> i don't use the log...
Jan 01 20:37:06 <Tibfib1> ill look up how to use it
Jan 01 20:37:14 <swisstomcat> palm-log appid
Jan 01 20:37:31 <Tibfib1> from where do I use that?
Jan 01 20:37:35 <swisstomcat> command-line
Jan 01 20:37:44 <Tibfib1> like what folder?
Jan 01 20:37:45 <swisstomcat> where you use palm-package or palm-install for example
Jan 01 20:37:47 <Tibfib1> cd ....
Jan 01 20:37:49 <Tibfib1> okay
Jan 01 20:41:36 <Tibfib1> okay it says: error; object function anonymous() {{ this.initialize.apply(this, arguments);}} has no method 'getScenes', line undefined, file undefinied
Jan 01 20:42:37 <swisstomcat> hrmm
Jan 01 20:43:58 <swisstomcat> think i found an example
Jan 01 20:44:15 <swisstomcat> var stageController=this.controller.getStageController(name);
Jan 01 20:44:27 <swisstomcat> var scenes=stageController.getScenes();
Jan 01 20:44:38 <swisstomcat> scenes.length
Jan 01 20:44:50 <Tibfib> sorry dude I keep getting disconected
Jan 01 20:45:00 <Tibfib> I missed after the first "var stage....
Jan 01 20:45:04 <Tibfib> if you said anything
Jan 01 20:45:16 <swisstomcat> i wrote the solution :)
Jan 01 20:45:25 <Tibfib> Hah just my luck.
Jan 01 20:45:27 <swisstomcat> just kidding
Jan 01 20:45:46 <swisstomcat> var name = 'notes';var stageController = this.controller.getStageController(name);
Jan 01 20:45:55 <swisstomcat> var scenes = stageController.getScenes();
Jan 01 20:46:00 <swisstomcat> scenes.length
Jan 01 20:46:23 <Tibfib> is the name, the name of the current scene?
Jan 01 20:47:03 <swisstomcat> probably
Jan 01 20:47:29 <Tibfib> alrighty testing now
Jan 01 20:51:28 <Tibfib> okay... current error: Object # <an anonymous> has no method 'getStageController', line undefined, file undefinied
Jan 01 20:54:18 <swisstomcat> bah
Jan 01 20:54:52 <swisstomcat> where did you put this code in?
Jan 01 20:54:59 <swisstomcat> where in the app
Jan 01 20:55:34 <haeffb_wirc> look up getActiveStage()
Jan 01 20:55:48 <Tibfib> activate
Jan 01 20:58:47 <Tibfib> this: https://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Controller.AppController.html#.getActiveStageController ?
Jan 01 21:00:07 <haeffb_wirc> yes
Jan 01 21:00:35 <haeffb_wirc> get appController
Jan 01 21:00:54 <haeffb_wirc> then use that to get active stage
Jan 01 21:11:15 <Tibfib> doh. neither work... getting "no method" errors
Jan 01 21:11:51 <Tibfib> oh well. I'll work on the problem later.
Jan 01 21:24:17 <swisstomcat> how can i detect that activate was called because of the back scene?
Jan 01 21:24:54 <haeffb_wirc> you can have the other scene pass a param
Jan 01 21:26:21 <haeffb_wirc> if I am understanding the ?
Jan 01 21:26:54 <haeffb_wirc> pass a param in popScene, I think
Jan 01 21:27:19 <swisstomcat> my question was unclear
Jan 01 21:27:35 <swisstomcat> how can i detect that activate was called because of the back *gesture*
Jan 01 21:29:08 <swisstomcat> to set my scene into the right state if someone did the back gesture
Jan 01 21:29:24 <DiscreetControl> best way to restart sshd without service command? just reboot the device? and best way to get service command installed?
Jan 01 21:29:37 <swisstomcat> install command line?
Jan 01 21:29:50 <prototypic> where can I get details about my app that's in the app cat? like how many dls its had
Jan 01 21:30:47 <swisstomcat> discreetcontrol: you could use webos quickinstaller for a command line or install a commandline with it or with preware
Jan 01 21:32:17 <DiscreetControl> no no no, im using putty to ssh into my pre... but i made changes to the /opt/etc/openssh/ssh_config file and need to restart sshd...
Jan 01 21:32:48 <DiscreetControl> service command doesnt seem to be included in the webos...
Jan 01 21:34:02 <swisstomcat> you mean on the command line?
Jan 01 21:34:06 <DiscreetControl> yep yep
Jan 01 21:34:14 <swisstomcat> i see
Jan 01 21:34:38 <DiscreetControl> 8^)
Jan 01 21:34:43 <swisstomcat> doesn't webos use upstart?
Jan 01 21:34:49 <DiscreetControl> erm....
Jan 01 21:34:58 <swisstomcat> initctl start xxx
Jan 01 21:35:18 <DiscreetControl> thinking..........
Jan 01 21:35:29 <swisstomcat> i might be very wrong tho :)
Jan 01 21:35:44 <prototypic> is # of downloads an app has had not public info?
Jan 01 21:36:05 <DiscreetControl> k, ill try... going to C what webos-internals has to say...
Jan 01 21:36:09 <DiscreetControl> ty
Jan 01 21:37:25 <haeffb_wirc> prototypic: not avail directly from palm yet.
Jan 01 21:38:10 <haeffb_wirc> but the (I think) webosschool online catalog has DL stats
Jan 01 21:38:44 <haeffb_wirc> swisstomcat: yes, that's what my response assumed
Jan 01 21:38:55 <knorc> annyone here working on the EAS problem with 1.3.5 with EAS 2003 and Godaddy certificates?
Jan 01 21:40:45 <swisstomcat> haeffb: i don't explicit pop a scene with the back gesture, do i?
Jan 01 21:41:18 <swisstomcat> code-wise
Jan 01 21:43:06 <haeffb_wirc> you'd have to capture the event
Jan 01 21:43:18 <haeffb_wirc> & handle it explicitly
Jan 01 21:43:20 <DiscreetControl> swisstomcat, best way... rwhitby> DiscreetControl: initctl stop mobi.optware.openssh
Jan 01 21:43:20 <DiscreetControl> <rwhitby> DiscreetControl: initctl start mobi.optware.openssh
Jan 01 21:43:55 <swisstomcat> discreetcontrol: makes sense
Jan 01 21:44:08 <swisstomcat> haeffb: got any examples?
Jan 01 21:44:26 <haeffb_wirc> be home in 5 min
Jan 01 21:46:09 <prototypic> is it possible to backup from one pre to another?
Jan 01 21:46:21 <prototypic> I'm trying to xfer my contacts and apps
Jan 01 21:47:15 <haeffb_wirc> palm profile (should) do that
Jan 01 21:47:38 <haeffb_wirc> but not any app data stored locally
Jan 01 21:48:03 <haeffb_wirc> and not homebrew apps
Jan 01 21:48:42 <prototypic> bleh, all my patches were on the top of my list to get back
Jan 01 21:48:49 <prototypic> ill just have to redo them i guess
Jan 01 21:52:59 <swisstomcat> i heard about saving/restoring the database itself
Jan 01 21:55:26 <haeffb> depends on the app.
Jan 01 21:55:32 <haeffb> and where it stores it's data
Jan 01 21:55:44 <haeffb> I dunno if preware has a db that you can transfer
Jan 01 21:55:51 <haeffb> or WOSQI
Jan 01 21:55:56 <haeffb> 	args = 'prefs';
Jan 01 21:55:56 <haeffb> 	Mojo.Log.info("args is " + args);
Jan 01 21:55:56 <haeffb> 	this.controller.stageController.popScene(args);
Jan 01 21:55:58 <swisstomcat> probably not
Jan 01 21:56:25 <haeffb> that is what I used in a prefs scene to let the prior scene know that I was coming from prefs...
Jan 01 21:56:29 <swisstomcat> haeffb: where would i put that? deactivate?
Jan 01 21:56:44 <haeffb> no...
Jan 01 21:56:46 <haeffb> hang on.
Jan 01 21:58:21 <haeffb> I'm thinking that you'd have to check for if (event.type = Mojo.Event.back) in handleCommand
Jan 01 21:58:54 <haeffb> then popScene(args)
Jan 01 21:59:11 <haeffb> and stop the event from propagating further?
Jan 01 21:59:28 <haeffb> bmyers_pre: ping!
Jan 01 22:00:20 <haeffb> not sure about all that event.preventDefault and event.stopPropagation stuff.
Jan 01 22:00:21 <bmyers_pre> yes?
Jan 01 22:00:38 <haeffb> you were handling back gesture, right?
Jan 01 22:01:40 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jan 01 22:02:17 * haeffb is trying to get bmyers_pre to confirm how to handle the back gesture...
Jan 01 22:02:36 <bmyers_pre> yes
Jan 01 22:02:54 <bmyers_pre> mojo.event.back?
Jan 01 22:02:58 <haeffb> a man of few words
Jan 01 22:03:01 <haeffb> yes
Jan 01 22:03:15 <bmyers_pre> I am on my pre..
Jan 01 22:03:32 <haeffb> :)
Jan 01 22:03:56 <haeffb> wirc while driving down the highway?
Jan 01 22:04:15 <haeffb> swisstomcat: give that a shot and see if it works.
Jan 01 22:04:18 <bmyers_pre> done driving now
Jan 01 22:04:59 <bmyers_pre> not sure if I have it right but the gestures are their own events
Jan 01 22:05:36 <bmyers_pre> you have to preventdefault and or stopprop
Jan 01 22:05:48 <bmyers_pre> depending
Jan 01 22:05:55 <haeffb> in handleCommand, if (event.type == Mojo.Event.back)
Jan 01 22:05:59 <swisstomcat> yeah, i'll have to try it out
Jan 01 22:06:26 <swisstomcat> basically you're replacing the default handling of the back gesture
Jan 01 22:06:57 <haeffb> right, and passing a param so your scenes' activate() knows where you're coming from.
Jan 01 22:10:30 <bmyers_pre> I haven't been following so not sure what you guys are up to..
Jan 01 22:11:36 <matsimoto> Hi, is it right that I have no chance to let my app read contacts that were added via the Pre Contacts App ?
Jan 01 22:11:39 <haeffb> swisstomcat want's to know, in this scenes activate(), if another scene's back gesture was used to reveal this scene
Jan 01 22:11:54 <haeffb> matsimoto: yes, that is right.
Jan 01 22:12:30 <haeffb> matsimoto: unless you use undocumented API's and a com.palm namespace that will prevent your app from being approved by Palm
Jan 01 22:14:20 <haeffb> or you use PeoplePicker to get info one people at a time. but you can't read contacts data directly
Jan 01 22:14:21 <matsimoto> haeffb: Doesnt this mean that the contacts I have entered via the GUI cannot be synchronized with lets say facebook ?
Jan 01 22:15:07 <haeffb> well, first, facebook doesn't sync that direction
Jan 01 22:15:16 <haeffb> lets say google instead
Jan 01 22:16:01 <haeffb> and by "contacts entered via the GUI" you mean...? Entered into the contacts app
Jan 01 22:16:03 <haeffb> ?
Jan 01 22:16:09 <matsimoto> yes
Jan 01 22:16:22 <bmyers_pre> set a global or pass param.either way
Jan 01 22:16:38 * haeffb hates having too many globals
Jan 01 22:17:29 <haeffb> matsimoto: depends on what you have set as default account in contacts
Jan 01 22:18:14 <haeffb> for instance, if you have a google account, and set google as your default account in contacts, then all new contacts that you add will sync to google
Jan 01 22:19:30 <haeffb> but if you've already added contacts, and Palm Profile was the default account in contacts, then you may be out of luck
Jan 01 22:21:12 <matsimoto> haeffb: Ok thanks. Fortunately this is no problem for me, but I am a bit confused about the term Synergy. This is a bit misleading.
Jan 01 22:21:45 <haeffb> true, it's a bit confusing
Jan 01 22:22:21 <haeffb> synergy is how it can combine info from Facebook, Google, Yahoo, and Palm Profile and present it all as one contact. ?
Jan 01 22:24:38 <matsimoto> Yes, but let say you meet a friend and use Palm Profile as your default account. This friend tells you that he has moved to another city, but you have this contact in google. How can you enter his new contact data ?
Jan 01 22:27:01 <haeffb> when you edit the contact's data, you can choose which account's data you're editing. For instance, I have a contact with info in Google and Yahoo.
Jan 01 22:27:25 <haeffb> When I edit the contact, there will be a phone number from Google and one from Yahoo. I can edit either or both.
Jan 01 22:28:14 <haeffb> but I can't edit the Facebook number because it only syncs one-way
Jan 01 22:28:41 <psi_> speaking of contacts
Jan 01 22:29:12 <matsimoto> Ok I see, of course the contacts application on the pre can access all accounts. This means that they use a special API ? or do they have a wildcard accountId ?
Jan 01 22:29:48 <psi_> does anyone know how i can access the address book data on my pre via USB or WLAN. i'd like to get rid of "the missing sync" and start with contacts and calendar
Jan 01 22:30:59 <matsimoto> psi_: that is what I am trying to work on
Jan 01 22:31:21 <haeffb> matsimoto: they use special API's that are only available to apps with com.palm.* namespace
Jan 01 22:31:59 <psi_> matsimoto: perfect
Jan 01 22:32:41 <haeffb> I think that MarkSpace & Chapura, etc, have special access not available to other developers
Jan 01 22:32:50 <matsimoto> haeffb: OK thanks. Maybe I have to dig deeper to find a way to access all data on my pre.
Jan 01 22:33:44 <haeffb> of course, I didn't say that you can't do it. You could always call your app "com.palm.myreallycoolappthatdoescoolstuffwithcontactdata" and use those special API's
Jan 01 22:33:57 <haeffb> but Palm will not allow such an app into the Catalog
Jan 01 22:34:18 <matsimoto> psi_: I get it working to write a small python script that reads the old palm-qof files I have and format this as a .json text file that I read via ajax get and fill in the contacts on my pre.
Jan 01 22:35:43 <bmyers_pre> there's the db too right?
Jan 01 22:36:41 <matsimoto> haeffb: of courese they will not. But I wonder why they have blocked the access to the data. I mean I only want read access to the data. I dont understand why this seems to be a problem.
Jan 01 22:37:08 <matsimoto> Or better why they dont permit this.
Jan 01 22:37:19 <psi_> matsimoto: okay. i was thinking about some sftp or usb mount solution. i'm not to much into js or html
Jan 01 22:38:21 <haeffb> they are preventing a "rogue" app from stealing all your contact data and sending it to some server on the interwebs
Jan 01 22:39:54 <haeffb> there has been some talk that they may someday allow apps to access that data on a "user-permission" basis. So, if you gave my app permission, it could access all your contact info.
Jan 01 22:40:51 <JenP> hi all!
Jan 01 22:40:57 <matsimoto> Yeah, that would be great.
Jan 01 22:41:13 <haeffb> hi jenp
Jan 01 22:41:24 <rwhitby> JenP: did you get doom running?
Jan 01 22:42:01 <JenP> rwhitby no..but i'm hving phone probs...gonna run webdoc on it soon
Jan 01 22:42:25 <matsimoto> psi_: I started with the hope I could use Blutooth but there is no API now.
Jan 01 22:43:05 * bmyers_pre DOOM ROCKS
Jan 01 22:44:21 <psi_> matsimoto: that would be really nice.
Jan 01 22:45:20 <JenP> rwhitby bf is trying to run it now
Jan 01 22:45:55 <matsimoto> psi_: I hope Palm opens Bluetooth in one of the next releases. It would be so cool to make a kind of drive by sync when in rang of my desktop.
Jan 01 22:46:44 <swisstomcat> no doom for me .. no 1.3.5 for me .. yet :(
Jan 01 22:47:24 <JenP> rwhitby i thought you said launching from icon was working on doom
Jan 01 22:47:54 <psi_> matsimoto: that is what i was hoping for in missing sync. but somehow it doesnt work
Jan 01 22:48:20 <psi_> matsimoto: and that is the reason i originally got the pre, because of wireless sync
Jan 01 22:49:04 <psi_> matsimoto: but there's still a lot of work to do
Jan 01 22:49:19 <matsimoto> psi_: Yes, and btsync worked with my centro and my linux desktop but now ... I start again.
Jan 01 22:50:16 <psi_> do i get full access to the pre by installing the openssh server?
Jan 01 22:51:13 <jfelectron> you had full access via novaterm
Jan 01 22:51:24 <jfelectron> openssh just makes it so you don't have to be plugged in to you computer
Jan 01 22:51:29 <psi_> maybe i could just copy the address book data via ssh, export my apple addressbook date via applescript, then compare it, and copy the updated data to the destination where it's needed
Jan 01 22:51:39 <jfelectron> terminal access over WiFi/EvDO
Jan 01 22:52:09 <jfelectron> psi_ : its probably a SQLite table
Jan 01 22:52:28 <jfelectron> eh haeffe?
Jan 01 22:52:40 <psi_> jfelectron: i hate wires and extra tools
Jan 01 22:53:04 <jfelectron> ps_i: yeah OTA is betterer
Jan 01 22:53:36 <atlanta> heyyy
Jan 01 22:54:03 <psi_> jfelectron: bleeding edge hardware needing wire for sync. welcome to the stone age
Jan 01 22:54:38 <jfelectron> well, with the pre there is no 'sync' at least that's not palm's vision
Jan 01 22:54:52 <jfelectron> Mark/Space and others have created desktop sync solutions
Jan 01 22:55:03 <haeffb> psi_: it sycs OTA w/ google, facebook, etc.
Jan 01 22:55:34 <jfelectron> At least we aren't tethered to iTunes
Jan 01 22:55:44 <jfelectron> like some unmentionable phone
Jan 01 22:56:05 <haeffb> let's back up and ask why you're wanting to sync to your desktop...?
Jan 01 22:56:06 <psi_> jfelectron: ok, i mean desktop sync. i'm way too oldschool for "cloud syncing", that is giving my contacts to some kind of system i don't know
Jan 01 22:56:24 <psi_> jfelectron: and by bashing wired syncing, i do have the iphone in mind
Jan 01 22:56:51 <jfelectron> Well look into Mark/Space I think they have Wifi syncing with their desktop app...its not free though
Jan 01 22:57:00 <psi_> haeffb: in this point you can call me paranod
Jan 01 22:57:12 <jfelectron> I've heard it before
Jan 01 22:57:20 <jfelectron> its not unreasonable I guess
Jan 01 22:57:25 <psi_> jfelectron: yes they do for address and cal, not for music/photos etc.
Jan 01 22:57:26 <jfelectron> it is the 'future' though
Jan 01 22:57:55 <jfelectron> Well the music is drag and drop or use DoubleTwist
Jan 01 22:58:01 <rwhitby> JenP: it is working
Jan 01 22:58:03 <psi_> i know that, though i don't like it.
Jan 01 22:58:09 <jfelectron> agreed
Jan 01 22:58:15 <LoneStar20> is it my laptop, or does Win7 really suck with WiFi
Jan 01 22:58:27 <jfelectron> I don't even have music on my phone....I stream my entire music library with AmpachePre
Jan 01 22:58:40 <jfelectron> why limit yourself ot 8gb?
Jan 01 22:58:58 <psi_> i don't have a data flat
Jan 01 22:59:10 <psi_> and 8gb i far beyond my needs
Jan 01 22:59:19 <jfelectron> fair enough
Jan 01 23:00:58 <psi_> jfelectron: germany is 3rd world when it comes to mobile internet access, if i may exaggerate
Jan 01 23:01:35 <jfelectron> really? Wow, that's kind of surprising....I thought GSM 3G was fairly universal across western eur
Jan 01 23:01:38 <psi_> maybe not when i comes to technique, but when it comes to pricing
Jan 01 23:01:42 <swisstomcat> maybe i don't understand the app flow correctly
Jan 01 23:01:48 <Tibfib> I like mediamonkey.
Jan 01 23:01:55 <jfelectron> psi_: ahh ok
Jan 01 23:02:05 <swisstomcat> i push scene third, fill out some value .. and then ... push scene second again?
Jan 01 23:02:34 <jfelectron> swisstomcat: Depends...do you need the third scene again?
Jan 01 23:02:42 <jfelectron> or is it a one use only thing?
Jan 01 23:02:52 <swisstomcat> it might be used again later
Jan 01 23:03:13 <swisstomcat> it's just to adjust something that's needed in the second scene
Jan 01 23:03:44 <swisstomcat> so it can be called again and again
Jan 01 23:03:55 <jfelectron> then yeah, just push the second again, which will pop the third but leave it in the stack for latter
Jan 01 23:04:06 <swisstomcat> ok
Jan 01 23:04:11 <swisstomcat> but i get a strange error
Jan 01 23:04:29 <swisstomcat> object #<an anonymous> has no method 'pushScene'
Jan 01 23:04:48 <swisstomcat> oh
Jan 01 23:04:49 <swisstomcat> my bad
Jan 01 23:04:53 <swisstomcat> i have to use Mojo.Controller.stageController
Jan 01 23:04:55 <jfelectron> are you using this.controller.stageController.pushScene
Jan 01 23:04:56 <jfelectron> ?
Jan 01 23:04:59 <jfelectron> yes!
Jan 01 23:05:09 <swisstomcat> oops, sorry
Jan 01 23:05:55 <jfelectron> You could also just do swapScene between the two once they are both setup
Jan 01 23:06:15 <jfelectron> it has lower overhead because its not deactivating and activating both scenes everytime
Jan 01 23:06:27 <swisstomcat> oh
Jan 01 23:06:56 <swisstomcat> but then i need to see if i have to push it at first time use, no?
Jan 01 23:07:03 <jfelectron> yes
Jan 01 23:07:25 <jfelectron> you'd have to keep track of events to use swapScene on subsequent req's
Jan 01 23:07:37 <swisstomcat> have to try that
Jan 01 23:07:56 <haeffb> jfelectron: I thought that swap would remove one scene from stack
Jan 01 23:08:33 <haeffb> and if you push second again (from third) you'd have two copies of second on stack (second, third, second)
Jan 01 23:10:57 <haeffb> swapScene: Pops the current scene and simultaneously pushed a new scene without activating & deactivating any underlying scenes.
Jan 01 23:11:14 <jfelectron> I think it's for situations where you don't want to activate or deactivate multiple scenes, keeping all the listeners and what not active
Jan 01 23:11:34 <haeffb> popScene: Removes a scene from the scene stack, passing the return value to the newly revealed scene's activate method.
Jan 01 23:12:41 <jfelectron> we're talking about swapScene
Jan 01 23:12:52 <jfelectron> it removes it from the 'stack' but its still in memory
Jan 01 23:13:01 <jfelectron> It prevents back gestures
Jan 01 23:13:33 <jfelectron> Here it sounds like forcing user input is wanted
Jan 01 23:13:53 <haeffb> ah. but the docs say "pops current scene and simultaneously pushe(s) new scene"
Jan 01 23:16:07 <haeffb> I think that what swisstomcat wants is: 1) while scene2  is active 2) push scene3 to collect some input and 3) go back to scene2 with that input
Jan 01 23:16:22 <swisstomcat> that's correct
Jan 01 23:16:27 <jfelectron> true...but if its not calling activate or deactivate....they have to both be in memory no?
Jan 01 23:16:28 <haeffb> if he does pushScene in 3), then he has two instances of scene2 in stack
Jan 01 23:16:46 <jfelectron> well, he can check if it exists already
Jan 01 23:17:33 <haeffb> "without activating & deactivating any underlying scenes" - those would be scenes below the current scene on the stack.
Jan 01 23:17:51 <haeffb> it still activates/deactivates the scenes that are swapped
Jan 01 23:18:37 <jfelectron> OK, yes...I'm clearly wrong on this
Jan 01 23:18:37 <swisstomcat> got a good example for reading out a datepicker? couldn't find one so far
Jan 01 23:18:50 <haeffb> reading out?
Jan 01 23:18:57 <swisstomcat> getting the selected value
Jan 01 23:19:15 <haeffb> swisstomcat: I think you need to pushScene('3') from scene2, then popScene() from 3
Jan 01 23:19:34 <swisstomcat> haeffb: i'll try that in a minute
Jan 01 23:19:36 <haeffb> datePickerModel.date
Jan 01 23:20:10 <jfelectron> or whatever modelproperty is being used
Jan 01 23:20:49 * haeffb likes to assume people aren't changing modelProperty willy-nilly :) 
Jan 01 23:20:56 <jfelectron> why not swapScene from 3
Jan 01 23:20:59 <swisstomcat> one of these days i'm going to do a new datepicker
Jan 01 23:21:04 <jfelectron> saves a line of code
Jan 01 23:21:25 <haeffb> because 2 is already on stack, unless we swapScene from 2 to 3
Jan 01 23:21:45 <swisstomcat> like one in the old treo days
Jan 01 23:23:22 <jfelectron> haeffb: yeah, OK
Jan 01 23:23:31 <jfelectron> damn you
Jan 01 23:23:39 <jfelectron> you're schooling me this morning :)
Jan 01 23:23:41 <haeffb> sry :)
Jan 01 23:23:55 <jfelectron> no....its good :)
Jan 01 23:24:00 <haeffb> ah, it's evening here. I've had all day to think about it.
Jan 01 23:25:24 <haeffb> I'm having all kinds of trouble trying to keep track of the difference between list index and db key. this is a pita.
Jan 01 23:25:59 <jfelectron> db key? The row id?
Jan 01 23:27:20 <swisstomcat> still struggling with the date picker ...
Jan 01 23:27:49 <haeffb> yes. it's just a matter of trying to keep track of when I'm using the db row id and the list index.
Jan 01 23:27:51 <swisstomcat> setupwidget with the current date and getting it's value later
Jan 01 23:28:11 <haeffb> just a sec, swisstomcat: i'll pastebin an example
Jan 01 23:28:17 <swisstomcat> thx
Jan 01 23:28:36 <swisstomcat> it's already past midnight :X
Jan 01 23:29:39 <haeffb> http://www.pastie.org/763539
Jan 01 23:29:52 <haeffb> this is from a dialog, but should get some basic points across.
Jan 01 23:31:06 <haeffb> save the date in a var, use that var as the model of the picker, and the picker will automagically update the var when the user changes values.
Jan 01 23:31:25 <haeffb> and if you use both date & time pickers with the same model...it's really cool.
Jan 01 23:32:40 <swisstomcat> hmmm
Jan 01 23:34:42 <jfelectron> haeffb: Can you add the db key as a property of the list item? I don't entirely get what the situation is
Jan 01 23:35:10 <swisstomcat> it's almost working haeffb
Jan 01 23:35:22 <jfelectron> The list index I assume doesn't correspond with the db key?
Jan 01 23:35:33 <jfelectron> like reordering occurs or something
Jan 01 23:36:13 <swisstomcat> zsoc: great work getting doom to run!
Jan 01 23:36:50 <swisstomcat> haeffb: exception in datepicker widget setup: cannot call method 'getdate' of undefined
Jan 01 23:37:46 <haeffb> swisstomcat: use this.date = new Date();
Jan 01 23:38:03 <haeffb> that will set it to now date & time
Jan 01 23:38:04 <swisstomcat> haeffb: i use var todayDate=new Date();
Jan 01 23:38:26 <swisstomcat> and then: this.DatePickerModel = { date: todayDate }
Jan 01 23:38:41 <haeffb> use this.todayDate rather than var todayDate
Jan 01 23:38:52 <haeffb> so that it's available elsewhere in your assistant
Jan 01 23:39:10 <zsoc> swisstomcat: nah, you guys in here do the good work.
Jan 01 23:39:45 <haeffb> jfelectron: index may not necessarily equal db key
Jan 01 23:39:46 <swisstomcat> zsoc: nah, can't even get datepicker to work :)
Jan 01 23:40:08 <jfelectron> haeffb: OK, so why not store it as a property of the list item?
Jan 01 23:40:12 <haeffb> it is.
Jan 01 23:40:33 <jfelectron> what is the situation?
Jan 01 23:40:33 <haeffb> here's the situation:
Jan 01 23:40:39 <haeffb> :)
Jan 01 23:40:44 <jfelectron> lol
Jan 01 23:41:13 <haeffb> I have a db with mileage data (begin miles, end miles, etc, vehicle, category) in each row
Jan 01 23:41:21 <zsoc> swisstomcat: neither can i :D
Jan 01 23:41:28 <swisstomcat> heh
Jan 01 23:41:35 <haeffb> also have db table with vehicles, and table with categories
Jan 01 23:42:01 <swisstomcat> zsoc: guess i should start porting quake then.. should be easier ;)
Jan 01 23:42:15 <haeffb> so in the main table, I store the key for vehicle and the key for category in each data item
Jan 01 23:42:17 <swisstomcat> haeffb: doesn't work :(
Jan 01 23:42:28 <haeffb> pastebin
Jan 01 23:42:32 <swisstomcat> haeffb: time picker does tho
Jan 01 23:42:46 <zsoc> swisstomcat: no joke, we could use more hands on the dark side ;) quick easy work.. lots of recognition.. :D
Jan 01 23:42:46 <haeffb> ok, prob just a typo somewhere?
Jan 01 23:43:09 <swisstomcat> zsoc: sure, let me know what to do
Jan 01 23:43:50 <swisstomcat> haeffb: http://www.pastie.org/763548
Jan 01 23:44:09 <haeffb> then later, I want to use a ListSelector to let the user choose/change vehicle or category. I know the db key, need to set the ListSelector model to the index corresponding to the db key.
Jan 01 23:45:11 <swisstomcat> haeffb: it was the modelproperty entry
Jan 01 23:45:20 <swisstomcat> haeffb: that made it not work
Jan 01 23:45:37 <zsoc> swisstomcat: please read all 16,392 lines of Palm's webos sdl port and find things i missed :>
Jan 01 23:45:43 <haeffb> the basic question is array = [{label: "1", value: 1}, {label: "3", value: 3}]; what's the easiest way to get the index corresponding to value 3?
Jan 01 23:46:20 <jfelectron> haeffb: OK so you should just need one key to drill down right?
Jan 01 23:46:42 <haeffb> swisstomcat: yes, if you change modelProperty, then your model must have that variable in it somewhere.
Jan 01 23:47:29 <haeffb> jfelectron: I'm just getting confused by my code, because some places I've assumed that index is db key or vice versa and just need to walk thru it and fix stuff
Jan 01 23:47:55 <haeffb> and it's a pita, so I'm on here explaining/complaining rather than just fixing it.
Jan 01 23:48:12 <jfelectron> ahhh....complaining is more cathartic than buckling down
Jan 01 23:48:24 <swisstomcat> haeffb: ok, now i get it :) it's late
Jan 01 23:49:03 <haeffb> swisstomcat: cool. And you use funny-sounding labels.
Jan 01 23:49:15 <swisstomcat> haeffb: german
Jan 01 23:49:48 <haeffb> ja
Jan 01 23:51:27 <swisstomcat> wer sind sie?
Jan 01 23:55:50 <haeffb> don't really speak German.
Jan 01 23:56:12 <haeffb> although I did grow up in a community with much German heritage
Jan 01 23:56:40 <swisstomcat> :)
Jan 01 23:56:50 <haeffb> http://www.hermannmissouri.com/
Jan 01 23:59:14 <swisstomcat> yay
Jan 01 23:59:16 <swisstomcat> it works
Jan 01 23:59:18 <swisstomcat> sorta
Jan 01 23:59:55 <Tibfib> swiss, were you the one who was asking about specializing the back command?
Jan 02 00:00:22 <swisstomcat> tibfib: yeah, but couldn't test it yet
Jan 02 00:00:41 <Tibfib> Where would you modify the mojo.event.back command?
Jan 02 00:01:19 <Tibfib> in the handlecommand?
Jan 02 00:02:09 <swisstomcat> wohoo, it really works
Jan 02 00:02:14 * swisstomcat hugs haeffb
Jan 02 00:02:30 <swisstomcat> tibfib: i didn't get that far yet
Jan 02 00:02:40 <swisstomcat> thanks everyone for all the help today
Jan 02 00:02:50 <swisstomcat> my app made a BIG step forward
Jan 02 00:02:56 <swisstomcat> it's almost usable :)
Jan 02 00:04:38 <swisstomcat> thank you all and good night
Jan 02 00:04:44 <swisstomcat> 1:04am
Jan 02 00:05:11 <kmax12> Jon Rubinstein named a “Geek of the Year”: http://themxweb.com/2010/01/01/jon-rubenstein-named-a-geek-of-the-year/
Jan 02 00:06:11 <haeffb> Tibfib: yes, that's where I would do it
Jan 02 00:09:39 <Tibfib> Alright. Whats the code to pop the current scene?
Jan 02 00:10:39 <haeffb> this.controller.popScene();
Jan 02 00:10:46 <haeffb> or....
Jan 02 00:10:48 <haeffb> wait...
Jan 02 00:11:32 <haeffb> no: this.controller.stageController.popScene();
Jan 02 00:11:50 <haeffb> if you're in a sceneAssistant
Jan 02 00:14:57 <bmyers_pre> was that your first irc hug haeffe?
Jan 02 00:15:24 <haeffb> as far as I can recall.
Jan 02 00:16:25 <haeffb> it turns out that I've been making this db key/index issue much more complicated than it needs to be.
Jan 02 00:16:51 <bmyers_pre> how so?
Jan 02 00:17:47 <bmyers_pre> I didn't see the whole thing
Jan 02 00:17:48 <haeffb> I don't need to worry about the index. Just let the framework handle that for me & grab the db key from the listSelectorModel value
Jan 02 00:18:05 <haeffb> I think I'm on the right track now.
Jan 02 00:18:16 <haeffb> haven't made much progress today, though.
Jan 02 00:18:39 <haeffb> and now I've started on a Sam Adams Noble Pils. Let the drunk coding commence!
Jan 02 00:18:44 <bmyers_pre> too busy helping other ppl?
Jan 02 00:19:45 <haeffb> more or less
Jan 02 00:19:52 <bmyers_pre> what are you writing?
Jan 02 00:20:02 <haeffb> still working on milez
Jan 02 00:20:11 <haeffb> adding user-defined categories & vehicles
Jan 02 00:23:08 <bmyers_pre> categories. hey good idea..
Jan 02 00:23:32 <haeffb> great idea.
Jan 02 00:23:56 <bmyers_pre> I should do something like that too
Jan 02 00:23:59 <haeffb> I had categories in the first version, but they were hard-coded as "Business" and Personal
Jan 02 00:24:16 <haeffb> I can give you some pointers... :)
Jan 02 00:24:18 <bmyers_pre> :)
Jan 02 00:25:36 <haeffb> by golly, I think I've got it.
Jan 02 00:25:41 <bmyers_pre> categories in sql ?
Jan 02 00:26:00 <haeffb> a categories table and a vehicles table
Jan 02 00:26:09 <haeffb> and a mileage events table
Jan 02 00:26:51 <bmyers_pre> nice.
Jan 02 00:27:20 <haeffb> ? on first run, I should populate Undefined, Business & Personal.
Jan 02 00:27:39 <haeffb> then let user edit all of them, add new ones, and delete all but Undefined.
Jan 02 00:27:59 <bmyers_pre> unfiled
Jan 02 00:28:06 <haeffb> Unfiled.
Jan 02 00:28:14 <haeffb> I keep getting that confused.
Jan 02 00:28:25 <bmyers_pre> yeah. sound like the way I would do it
Jan 02 00:28:27 <haeffb> but does that seem like appropriate behavior?
Jan 02 00:28:53 <haeffb> would you use cookie to track "first run"?
Jan 02 00:28:58 <bmyers_pre> undefined sounds like an error
Jan 02 00:29:27 <bmyers_pre> yes. easy enough
Jan 02 00:29:50 <bmyers_pre> I do it that way
Jan 02 00:30:07 <bmyers_pre> or if the db doesn't exist
Jan 02 00:30:17 <bmyers_pre> that's first run
Jan 02 00:30:51 <bmyers_pre> you can try to select  table from system db.
Jan 02 00:32:21 <haeffb> I'd have to change some stuff. I'm using CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS
Jan 02 00:32:39 <bmyers_pre> just don't delete any data based on first run cookie.
Jan 02 00:32:59 <bmyers_pre> cookies can get lost
Jan 02 00:33:02 <haeffb> but, guess I could try the SELECT * FROM TABLE first, then if that don't work CREATE TABLE
Jan 02 00:33:11 <bmyers_pre> no.
Jan 02 00:33:22 <bmyers_pre> there is a system table
Jan 02 00:33:33 <bmyers_pre> that's has your table names
Jan 02 00:33:36 <haeffb> oh.
Jan 02 00:33:45 <haeffb> ok, will look into that
Jan 02 00:33:51 <bmyers_pre> you can select 1 known table
Jan 02 00:33:53 <haeffb> that'd be easier than a cookie
Jan 02 00:34:05 <bmyers_pre> if 0 rows_ no db
Jan 02 00:34:35 <bmyers_pre> look at create_db.js
Jan 02 00:34:44 <bmyers_pre> or just use it
Jan 02 00:35:12 <bmyers_pre> db_create.js maybe..
Jan 02 00:35:24 <bmyers_pre> one of those
Jan 02 00:35:33 <haeffb> I will do something like that in next app. Right now I'm just throwing db stuff all over the place.
Jan 02 00:36:04 <haeffb> db_create
Jan 02 00:37:22 <bmyers_pre> it's mostly for just creating db
Jan 02 00:37:28 <haeffb> but I got the concept down
Jan 02 00:37:53 <bmyers_pre> or sql calls I don't need to hear back from
Jan 02 00:38:13 <bmyers_pre> that table call is in there
Jan 02 00:38:30 <haeffb> ha. What if your user enters 10000 categories?
Jan 02 00:38:35 <haeffb> then what?
Jan 02 00:39:30 <bmyers_pre> I don't care
Jan 02 00:39:41 <bmyers_pre> can if they want to
Jan 02 00:40:23 <haeffb> but then unfiled sortorder is wrong! :)
Jan 02 00:40:44 <haeffb> they won't be able to find it at the bottom of the list of categories!
Jan 02 00:40:49 <haeffb> whatever will they do?
Jan 02 00:41:10 <bmyers_pre> never go full retard
Jan 02 00:41:18 <haeffb> lol
Jan 02 00:43:05 <bmyers_pre> I hope it helps you out any. use in good health
Jan 02 00:43:18 <haeffb> thanks.
Jan 02 00:43:57 <haeffb> If I get this in decent shape, I'll send you a test ipk so you can crap all over it to return the favor.
Jan 02 00:44:24 <bmyers_pre> you bet. would miss out on that..
Jan 02 00:48:41 <jfelectron> bmyers!
Jan 02 00:49:10 <bmyers_pre> yo
Jan 02 00:50:43 <bmyers_pre> hows it going?
Jan 02 00:50:43 <jfelectron> any experience with noticeUpdatedItems in lists and weird scrolling artifacts?
Jan 02 00:51:03 <jfelectron> OK...rolling along, this scrolling thing is killing me though :/
Jan 02 00:51:47 <jfelectron> looking at widget-list.js there are a bunch of hacks they have in there to maintain scroll position when items are added, but it fails miserably in my case
Jan 02 00:52:17 <jfelectron> they even say something like 'works in most cases' in the comments!
Jan 02 00:52:46 <jfelectron> Variable height elements creates all sorts of problems
Jan 02 00:52:55 <bmyers_pre> yeah
Jan 02 00:53:00 <bmyers_pre> exactly
Jan 02 00:53:34 <bmyers_pre> drawers too
Jan 02 00:53:42 <haeffb> f*ck drawers
Jan 02 00:53:55 <jfelectron> yeah....its because they render 'open' and then the framework closes them
Jan 02 00:54:13 <jfelectron> so transiently the list code sees them and tries to adjut but the they dissapear
Jan 02 00:54:17 <bmyers_pre> you have to keep track of the height ypurself
Jan 02 00:55:07 * haeffb may have had too many Sam Adams in too short a time period
Jan 02 00:55:13 <jfelectron> Apparently...the thing is is someone is scrolling while items are being added, then things get pretty hairy
Jan 02 00:55:53 <jfelectron> if the position I record prior to noticeUpdatedItems() were reliable, it would be no prob...but that info is potentially stale by the time al the items are rendered at the bottom
Jan 02 00:56:46 <bmyers_pre> you add innerhtml heights yourself?
Jan 02 00:57:08 <jfelectron> not currently
Jan 02 00:57:42 <jfelectron> I have to add record keeping to figure out what's loaded in the DOM and what's visible
Jan 02 00:58:25 <bmyers_pre> fun huh?
Jan 02 00:58:36 <jfelectron> oh it will be great fun :/
Jan 02 00:59:19 * haeffb making sliders with thin-sliced beef tenderloin, grilled onions & horseradish sauce on a dinner roll. bbiab
Jan 02 00:59:43 <bmyers_pre> sounds delish
Jan 02 00:59:49 <jfelectron> the easy way out would be to just avoid all the asynchronous adds and only add things in reponse to a
Jan 02 00:59:54 <jfelectron> 'load more' press
Jan 02 01:00:26 <bmyers_pre> in a list right?
Jan 02 01:00:28 <jfelectron> but I don't like unnecessary buttons
Jan 02 01:00:33 <jfelectron> yes, its a list
Jan 02 01:00:53 <bmyers_pre> there that draw only func
Jan 02 01:01:01 <bmyers_pre> you c that one?
Jan 02 01:01:13 <jfelectron> draw only?
Jan 02 01:01:21 <jfelectron> Is that a public method?
Jan 02 01:01:42 <bmyers_pre> might not have the name right
Jan 02 01:02:33 <jfelectron> there are some interesting attributes like  initialAverageRowHeight
Jan 02 01:02:43 <jfelectron> which might help the framework out
Jan 02 01:02:46 <bmyers_pre> has to do with max items in list
Jan 02 01:02:52 <jfelectron> give it a little sugah
Jan 02 01:03:06 <bmyers_pre> something like that
Jan 02 01:03:16 <jfelectron> well I have lazyloading
Jan 02 01:03:34 <jfelectron> it renders 10 items at  a time when the framework asks for more
Jan 02 01:04:06 <bmyers_pre> hows that work 4 you?
Jan 02 01:06:06 <jfelectron> I'm not sure it does.... noticeUpdatedItems() seems to dump everything into the list and disregards the callback
Jan 02 01:06:17 <jfelectron> based on my logging anyway
Jan 02 01:07:23 <jfelectron> It goes like this: AJAX req, 50 items returned, call noticeUpdatedItems()....itemsCallback() which only gives the framework 10 at a time gets called once, but all 50 items are in fact rendered
Jan 02 01:07:44 <jfelectron> there is something screwy internally
Jan 02 01:08:08 <bmyers_pre> sounds like it
Jan 02 01:08:46 <jfelectron> its like it sees the callback and says oh that's nice, but no thanks I'd rather render everything
Jan 02 01:09:19 <sportman> ok i went to install the new engadget app
Jan 02 01:09:25 <sportman> it keeps on failing install, anyone ever have that issue/
Jan 02 01:10:35 <jfelectron> sportman:  is preware present and did you upgrade the package manager service post 1.3.5?
Jan 02 01:10:47 <sportman> preware is present
Jan 02 01:10:58 <sportman> i isntalled preware with qi last night
Jan 02 01:11:41 <jfelectron> you should be good, let me try installing it
Jan 02 01:12:52 <jfelectron> works for me
Jan 02 01:13:01 <sportman> its not even through preware
Jan 02 01:13:04 <sportman> its an official engadget app
Jan 02 01:13:29 <jfelectron> yes, but there were some issues with package manager service that prevented apps from being installed post 1.3.5
Jan 02 01:13:36 <sportman> oh hrmm
Jan 02 01:13:38 <sportman> ill try another app
Jan 02 01:16:18 <scasplte2> Is there anyway to manually remove a theme?
Jan 02 01:16:45 <sportman> actually they all fail
Jan 02 01:16:45 <sportman> :/
Jan 02 01:16:56 <sportman> so yea the isntaller isn't working
Jan 02 01:17:07 <scasplte2> ok, glad its not just me then
Jan 02 01:19:54 <jfelectron> sportman: did you have preware before 1.3.5?
Jan 02 01:22:12 * haeffb_chowing just installed engadget app
Jan 02 01:24:05 <bmyers_pre> just installed presteroids
Jan 02 01:24:32 <sportman> yea i did
Jan 02 01:24:34 <sportman> but it didnt work
Jan 02 01:24:37 <sportman> so i unisntalled it
Jan 02 01:24:38 <sportman> and reinstalled it
Jan 02 01:24:44 <sportman> like it worked berfore 1.35
Jan 02 01:24:50 <sportman> then it stopped so i uninstaleld and reinstalled preware
Jan 02 01:25:11 <haeffb> can I concatenate multiple SQL commands? like sql = "CREATE TABlE 1; CREATE TABLE 2;"
Jan 02 01:25:27 <jfelectron> preware is one thing, the package manager service is another....are both up to date?
Jan 02 01:25:27 <rwhitby> sportman: run the emergency migration helper
Jan 02 01:25:34 <jfelectron> yup
Jan 02 01:25:38 <sportman> link?
Jan 02 01:25:43 <rwhitby> sportman: it's in preware
Jan 02 01:25:46 <sportman> alright
Jan 02 01:25:47 <sportman> ill grab it
Jan 02 01:25:48 <sportman> thanks
Jan 02 01:26:07 <rwhitby> sportman: you might want to follow @webosinternals on twitter for future updates
Jan 02 01:26:14 <sportman> yea i think i will
Jan 02 01:26:20 <sportman> i have been away from webosinternals
Jan 02 01:26:21 <sportman> for like a month
Jan 02 01:26:24 <sportman> and kinda out of the loop
Jan 02 01:26:40 <rwhitby> well, you'll want to try out DOOM! then ;-)
Jan 02 01:26:48 <sportman> well i tried that
Jan 02 01:26:50 <sportman> i came back last night
Jan 02 01:26:52 <sportman> :-p
Jan 02 01:26:59 <sportman> saw the doom thing on engadget
Jan 02 01:27:03 <sportman> and was liek :-p
Jan 02 01:29:18 <bmyers_pre> haeffb,there is another way for that
Jan 02 01:48:47 <Bmyers> u still there haeffb?
Jan 02 01:55:13 <haeffb> still there
Jan 02 01:55:43 <Bmyers> did you multi sql in one work?
Jan 02 01:55:52 <Bmyers> did "your" multi sql in one work?
Jan 02 01:56:01 <haeffb> not yet
Jan 02 01:56:19 <Bmyers> u still trying to?
Jan 02 01:56:38 <haeffb> yep
Jan 02 01:57:17 <Bmyers> just a bunch of creates or inserts ?
Jan 02 01:57:35 <haeffb> both, but in diff functions
Jan 02 01:57:40 <haeffb> one has creates, one has inserts
Jan 02 01:57:52 <haeffb> 		var sql = "CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS 'mileageEvents' (id INTEGER PRIMARY KEY, date INTEGER, endDate INTEGER, dateformat TEXT, begMiles TEXT, endMiles TEXT, mileage TEXT, purpose TEXT, destination TEXT, notes TEXT, category TEXT, vehicle INTEGER NOT NULL DEFAULT 0);";
Jan 02 01:57:52 <haeffb> 		sql += "CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS 'vehicles' (value INTEGER PRIMARY KEY, label TEXT, lastmileage INTEGER, rate REAL;)";
Jan 02 01:57:52 <haeffb> 		sql += "CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS 'categories' (value INTEGER PRIMARY KEY, label TEXT);";
Jan 02 01:58:49 <Bmyers> i think you can do:
Jan 02 01:58:51 <Bmyers> transaction.executeSql(string,
Jan 02 01:58:56 <Bmyers> another_string,
Jan 02 01:59:21 <Bmyers> [], successhandler, errorhandler);
Jan 02 01:59:45 <Bmyers> something like that..
Jan 02 01:59:55 <Bmyers> i just went with a function that takes a string
Jan 02 02:00:03 <Bmyers> and call that over and over again
Jan 02 02:00:11 <Bmyers> easier for me..
Jan 02 02:00:29 <haeffb> I may just drop back and do 'em one at a time for now.
Jan 02 02:00:42 <haeffb> with the above, neither success nor failure is called.
Jan 02 02:01:53 <Bmyers> does it do the work?
Jan 02 02:02:40 <haeffb> nope
Jan 02 02:02:57 <haeffb> I don't like all this asynchronisity
Jan 02 02:04:42 <Bmyers> BEGIN TRANSACTION;
Jan 02 02:04:42 <Bmyers> CREATE TEMPORARY TABLE t1_backup(a,b);
Jan 02 02:04:42 <Bmyers> INSERT INTO t1_backup SELECT a,b FROM t1;
Jan 02 02:04:42 <Bmyers> DROP TABLE t1;
Jan 02 02:04:42 <Bmyers> CREATE TABLE t1(a,b);
Jan 02 02:04:42 <Bmyers> INSERT INTO t1 SELECT a,b FROM t1_backup;
Jan 02 02:04:44 <Bmyers> DROP TABLE t1_backup;
Jan 02 02:04:46 <Bmyers> COMMIT;
Jan 02 02:04:48 <Bmyers> how about something like that?
Jan 02 02:05:12 <kesne> Hey all
Jan 02 02:05:34 <kesne> Does anyone know if the introduction of a new finger on the screen interrupts a Mojo.Hold event?
Jan 02 02:05:36 <haeffb> hey kesne
Jan 02 02:08:17 <haeffb> found a typo in my sql string.
Jan 02 02:08:20 <zsoc> Bmyers: http://xkcd.com/327/
Jan 02 02:08:24 <haeffb> but still being hammered by async
Jan 02 02:08:45 <haeffb> trying to select * in scene assistant before tables created in app assistant
Jan 02 02:08:51 <haeffb> FAIL
Jan 02 02:11:50 <Bmyers> zsoc: funny. i can see myself getting calls like that..
Jan 02 02:12:09 <Bmyers> async..
Jan 02 02:12:45 <Bmyers> laugh a second eh haeefb?
Jan 02 02:13:16 <Bmyers> one reason why i added a splash screen..
Jan 02 02:14:44 <haeffb> going to just make a chain of success handlers....
Jan 02 02:14:49 <haeffb> pita
Jan 02 02:15:47 <Bmyers> where is the select statement in next scene? what method?
Jan 02 02:16:54 <JenP> hi all!
Jan 02 02:18:04 <jfelectron> there is a synchronize method....
Jan 02 02:18:21 <Bmyers> abouttoactivate is used by that sync method
Jan 02 02:18:30 <Bmyers> hi jenp!
Jan 02 02:18:30 <jfelectron> yes
Jan 02 02:18:49 <JenP> hey Bmyers!
Jan 02 02:18:52 <Bmyers> could he put his create calls in the about to activate and the other in activate?
Jan 02 02:20:23 <jfelectron> http://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Function.Synchronize.html
Jan 02 02:21:21 <Bmyers> you ever tried that JF?
Jan 02 02:21:34 <jfelectron> yes
Jan 02 02:21:52 <jfelectron> I needed to wait to display something until two different AJAX requests had returned
Jan 02 02:22:30 <Bmyers> wow, can u show me how u did it? confused the heck out of me
Jan 02 02:22:33 <haeffb> activate()
Jan 02 02:22:47 <haeffb> throwing it all into activate() now.
Jan 02 02:23:04 <haeffb> one after another after another after...ad nauseum
Jan 02 02:24:19 <jfelectron> bmyers: hold on, let me pull it up
Jan 02 02:24:53 <Bmyers> How's Jenp tonight?
Jan 02 02:25:07 <JenP> very good you?
Jan 02 02:25:31 <JenP> although i think i caught your bug....little thing that is taking forever to fix
Jan 02 02:26:00 <Bmyers> sorry. it happens like that..
Jan 02 02:26:12 <JenP> uh huh
Jan 02 02:27:43 <Bmyers> i finished. but you know. it's software. its never REALLY done..
Jan 02 02:28:08 <Bmyers> not like a turkey or something.. when its done its done..
Jan 02 02:28:52 <JenP> hehehe no kidding!
Jan 02 02:29:23 <Bmyers> you were working on an app for your BO right?
Jan 02 02:31:13 <JenP> what's a BO?
Jan 02 02:31:16 <JenP> body odor?
Jan 02 02:31:21 <JenP> are you saying i'm smelly?
Jan 02 02:31:47 <JenP> hmmmm.....***JenP taps foot
Jan 02 02:32:51 <haeffb> jenp, I didn't want to say anything, but...
Jan 02 02:33:16 <JenP> LOL...bmyers...
Jan 02 02:36:14 <jfelectron> bmyers: here's the idea  http://www.pastie.org/763645
Jan 02 02:36:58 <jfelectron> this.controller.modelChanged only gets called by firstCallback and secondCallback return
Jan 02 02:37:29 <jfelectron> called when rather
Jan 02 02:40:40 <Bmyers> checking..
Jan 02 02:44:03 <Bmyers> i think i get it..
Jan 02 02:44:32 <Bmyers> a little tricky. the sample in the SDK stinks..
Jan 02 02:44:47 <Bmyers> so you have to ajax requests
Jan 02 02:45:06 <Bmyers> firstcallback is wrapper by the syncronizer
Jan 02 02:45:17 <Bmyers> to callback1
Jan 02 02:45:46 <Bmyers> gotta try that. async ajax and sql calls are awesome and all but sometimes YOU NEED THE DANG DATA!!
Jan 02 02:45:58 <Bmyers> before going on ...
Jan 02 02:46:23 <Bmyers> you see that haeffb?
Jan 02 02:46:50 <Bmyers> Jenp BO = BOyfriend
Jan 02 02:47:41 <Bmyers> sorry for the delay. kids are refusing to go to bed this year. new resolution for them or something..
Jan 02 02:48:38 <haeffb> see it, but don't understand it yet.
Jan 02 02:49:32 <jfelectron> yeah, sometimes you need to know when you've pulled down all the bits you need
Jan 02 02:50:11 <Bmyers> JF should explain it cause I'm just figuring that one out.. but thats the way to do it..
Jan 02 02:50:27 <jfelectron> The synchornizer.wrap just returns a wrapper and registers the function call with the synchronizer object, which presumably keeps track of when each of the wrapped functions is called and returns
Jan 02 02:50:58 <jfelectron> I haven't tried it, but I think you could wrap the same callback multiple times
Jan 02 02:51:28 <jfelectron> each wrapper is a unique object, so I think it should work
Jan 02 02:57:30 <Bmyers> do you wrap the failure callbacks somehow or what if things go wrong and success doesnt fire?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 02 02:59:57 2010