**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 05 02:59:56 2010 Feb 05 03:02:51 haeffb: that worked thanks... Feb 05 03:05:12 hi all! Feb 05 03:05:46 howdy Feb 05 03:11:05 man, I do not like Komodo messing with my appinfo.json and framework_config.json Feb 05 03:11:11 hi JenP Feb 05 03:11:19 hi haeffb! Feb 05 03:11:23 how are you? Feb 05 03:12:43 I'm good. You? Feb 05 03:12:53 how do I get JSLint in Komodo? Feb 05 03:14:09 there's an add on for jslint Feb 05 03:14:52 look up kJSLint 1.6.3 Feb 05 03:18:19 what other addons are useful? Feb 05 03:19:15 HTML language is cool Feb 05 03:19:33 Side by Side Diffs Feb 05 03:20:02 oh a favorite of mine is Davizilla Color Tab Feb 05 03:24:52 in JSLint output, what do I do about "Miles" is not defined when Miles is defined in another file? Feb 05 03:25:21 'Mojo' is not defined. '$L' is not defined. So what? Feb 05 03:30:34 and should I really be putting a ; after function {...} ? Feb 05 03:35:14 ya, color tab is cool. Feb 05 03:35:43 thought you'd like it Feb 05 04:08:29 Grrrr.... JSLint doesn't like ++ ?? Feb 05 04:09:54 haeffb want me to walk through each of those? Feb 05 04:10:53 1) JSLINT doesn't like ++ in one specific circumstance where it is possible for it to be edited/confused. In most circumstances ++ is just fine thank-you-very-much Feb 05 04:11:26 for (i = 0; i < Miles.vehicles.length; i++) { Feb 05 04:11:55 yep, in that circumstance, and if that's the only place you use it, ++ is just fine Feb 05 04:12:03 I have found where I can define external variables Feb 05 04:12:03 and you can just turn it off in the checking Feb 05 04:12:35 OK, done Feb 05 04:12:52 ;'s matter Feb 05 04:12:57 really Feb 05 04:13:03 what to know why they matter? Feb 05 04:13:03 ; after functions. OK. but Eclipse doesn't put them in when you generate a new scene. Feb 05 04:13:07 sure. Feb 05 04:13:27 eclipse is using Palm's code when you generate a new scene and palm has acknowledged that this is wrong and that they intend to fix it. Feb 05 04:13:47 there are two problems with not using ; Feb 05 04:14:18 1) if you use code compressors like the YUI compressor, it ASSUMES that ; is a end-of-statement and that it will BE THERE when it's compressing. Feb 05 04:15:01 Wish JS-Lint had a ; insertion features Feb 05 04:15:30 jfelectron: it does. Me. Feb 05 04:15:33 secondly, in javascript, ++ and -- can be prefix or suffix operators, and the ; ends the statement PROVING what you intended the -- or ++ to do Feb 05 04:16:05 haeffb: hmmm.....can't seem to to komodo...but I haven't tried very hard Feb 05 04:16:10 basically, in js, linefeed can be whitespace, or can act as a statement end, and that substitutes one abiguity for another. Just put the freaking things in. Feb 05 04:16:17 in the for statement, is there a difference between i++ and ++i ? Feb 05 04:16:31 there is now a difference, no Feb 05 04:16:33 jfelectron: jsline gets ME to insert ;'s Feb 05 04:16:40 jslint Feb 05 04:16:47 any OTHER jslint complaints? Feb 05 04:16:58 btw, I usually couple jslint with jsbeautifier. Feb 05 04:17:00 haeffb: hah...OK..now your prev statement makes sense Feb 05 04:17:05 which helps me catch bad line breaking Feb 05 04:17:07 wants switch (...) and case indented the same. Feb 05 04:17:23 jsbeautifier addon for Komodo? Feb 05 04:17:40 I'd prefer the case to be indented under switch Feb 05 04:17:42 haeffb jsbbeautifier.com -- auto does all the indenting Feb 05 04:17:44 more readable. Feb 05 04:18:16 haeffb turn off strict white space Feb 05 04:18:44 meh. I've already changed the way I do it. Just doesn't seem right. Feb 05 04:18:55 I understand and frankly agree. Feb 05 04:19:05 it's a simple change to the jslint code.... Feb 05 04:19:08 which is in js Feb 05 04:19:19 should I 'use strict' in webOS? or does it matter? Feb 05 04:19:37 in webOS I do not think use-strict makes sense. Feb 05 04:20:44 you know crockford think ; was one of the worst design decisions in core JS Feb 05 04:21:58 actually, use-strict is a BAD idea Feb 05 04:22:14 since v8 is NOT using a strict ecma5 pragma Feb 05 04:22:49 jfelectron -- one of them. Along with the falure of {} to create scope Feb 05 04:22:57 along with "falsie" Feb 05 04:23:17 falsie? Feb 05 04:23:31 false = 0 = "" Feb 05 04:23:46 false == 0 is a tuthy statement Feb 05 04:23:52 well that's the plague of many a weakly typed language Feb 05 04:23:53 false == "" is a truthy statement Feb 05 04:24:05 0 == "" is a truthy statement Feb 05 04:24:21 annoying though {}="" isn't and neither is [] Feb 05 04:24:21 which is why jslint is all nasty if you compare against false or 0 or "" with anything but === Feb 05 04:24:43 well it was an hack to prevent sloppy type comparisons Feb 05 04:24:55 it was a hack to ALLOW sloppy type comparisons Feb 05 04:25:17 the real problem of course is, that javascript was designed in 10 days by 1 guy. Feb 05 04:25:18 uhhh....I think === came after == Feb 05 04:25:30 the former correct sloppiness in the latter Feb 05 04:25:39 jfelectron right Feb 05 04:25:53 I just want empty object to evaluate to false Feb 05 04:26:01 and I don't Feb 05 04:26:27 of course, you could override the prototype for == Feb 05 04:26:31 true Feb 05 04:26:53 which would confuse the SHIT out of anyone who ever tried to read your code. Feb 05 04:27:07 yeah it sure would...muwahahah Feb 05 04:27:12 which is why I use if (isempty(object) ) Feb 05 04:27:33 yeah isempty is fine....its just not cute Feb 05 04:27:40 no, it isn't Feb 05 04:27:48 but it's sure as shit readable Feb 05 04:28:23 man, I'm in a foul-mouthed mood tonight. Feb 05 04:28:30 Time for tea. Feb 05 04:29:00 you're the crotchety wise man of this channel Feb 05 04:29:15 all the noobs weigh on you heavily no doubt :) Feb 05 04:29:34 they do. Feb 05 04:29:34 you should just write a bot that spews rickisms Feb 05 04:29:44 plus, I like being the smart-assed know it all. Feb 05 04:29:53 well natch :) Feb 05 04:30:12 I have a bad case of Cliff CLavinism Feb 05 04:30:44 hahha....that's awesome Feb 05 04:31:06 dude..half the people on the channel (or more) have never even heard of Cheers Feb 05 04:32:19 Norm! Feb 05 04:32:43 man I love the little convenience methods like filter and each ...but they make debugging difficult cuz you can't break inside them Feb 05 04:32:50 it went off the air in 1993. So, no one under 30 would have substantive memories of it in first-run. but it's been syndicated and on cable ever since. Feb 05 04:33:07 I never EVER use for-each Feb 05 04:33:24 not for-each enumerable.each Feb 05 04:33:28 oh Feb 05 04:33:30 but same diff I suppose Feb 05 04:33:34 yeah Feb 05 04:33:44 it makes for compact code Feb 05 04:34:03 but again not entirely readable because its so terse Feb 05 04:34:06 one of these evenings I'm going to run a seminar on writing a recursive equivalent to for each or enumirable each that is therefore, exposed, AND traceable. Feb 05 04:34:23 although if you don't grasp recursion, it will be hell to read. Feb 05 04:34:39 Oh I could write that...I'm just a lazy bastard Feb 05 04:34:45 ha. Just JSLint'ed the hell out of my longest .js. Feb 05 04:34:56 haeffb: that's exhausting Feb 05 04:34:59 down to 4 warnings. Feb 05 04:35:04 from ???? Feb 05 04:35:10 unless your Mr. Meticulous over there Feb 05 04:35:22 I keep trying to explain to people how to recursively walk the dom, or walk an object. Feb 05 04:35:35 and they don't get it, because they never had recursion explained in a way that made sense. Feb 05 04:35:44 Do not wrap function literals in parens unless they are to be immediately invoked? Feb 05 04:35:49 I am _not_ mr meticulous. Feb 05 04:36:02 My code is a god-awful mess. Which is why I rely on lint and beautifier. Feb 05 04:36:11 hah...OK Feb 05 04:36:17 I'm a slob Feb 05 04:36:34 And I'm so old that I think that global variables are a good thing. :-) Feb 05 04:36:58 need to allow a user to choose up to 3 options, then the script some how blocks from choosing any more, what do you all recommend? Feb 05 04:37:07 "The scope of this is hard to figure out. Why don't we just stash this temp value in a global and we'll grab it from where we need it? " Feb 05 04:37:12 "OK, what the hell..." Feb 05 04:37:23 http://www.pastie.org/810589 Feb 05 04:37:24 *shudders* Feb 05 04:37:50 yes...this mangling is an annoyance of JS or really any language with loose scoping Feb 05 04:38:09 and it needs to be real-time Feb 05 04:38:10 jfelectron yep. JS Scoping is a mess. Feb 05 04:38:29 double parens before function because I want to .bind(this) Feb 05 04:38:44 its the 'oh well lets just let the interpreter figure out what the hell we mean' mentality Feb 05 04:38:53 jfelectron yes Feb 05 04:39:07 but JSLint doesn't like it. Feb 05 04:39:15 double parens? Feb 05 04:39:21 see pastie Feb 05 04:39:27 haeffb wait a minute or two Feb 05 04:39:34 oh of an anon function Feb 05 04:39:39 ...jeopardy theme... Feb 05 04:40:15 oh, geeze, I should probably try to run this now that I've linted it. :) Feb 05 04:41:27 I'm not really a fan of inline callbacks....I think it disrupts readability and also makes debugging difficult Feb 05 04:41:31 haeffb you should try to run it, because you may well have broken something Feb 05 04:41:39 and I -hate- anonymous functions in callbacks. Feb 05 04:41:43 seems to still work Feb 05 04:42:32 re anon callbacks...they seem clever...but they really just end up being headaches Feb 05 04:42:38 monkey see, monkey do. This is just db stuff copied from...? palm example? Feb 05 04:42:44 I would pull the transaction function out to a function definition and then do Miles.Db.transaction(tfunc(sql, args)) Feb 05 04:42:59 nodnod palm seems to LIKE anonymous functions Feb 05 04:43:08 others of us are not such big fans. Feb 05 04:43:20 how to do you trace them and debug them? Feb 05 04:43:28 Okey dokey. Will work on that in the next rewrite. Feb 05 04:43:48 mostly, I come here and say "hey, rick, why doesn't this work?" Feb 05 04:43:51 its the lets hope this works paradigm :) Feb 05 04:43:52 :) Feb 05 04:44:54 is there a way to stimulate loss WiFi/WAN in emu? Feb 05 04:45:02 stimulate I mean Feb 05 04:45:15 does Komodo have an outline pane - to see all the functions defined in an .js? Feb 05 04:45:44 nope....but you can collapse function bodies Feb 05 04:46:44 ha. finally found something eclipse can do that Komodo does not? Feb 05 04:46:59 not sure if anyone wrote about my option limit... damn wifi always sucks at this time Feb 05 04:47:19 haeffb when you have a moment read http://javascript.crockford.com/private.html Feb 05 04:47:36 and if you don't really understand what a closure is, read about it until you do. Feb 05 04:48:00 ((( There, that ought to keep him out of my hair for a week or so. ))) Feb 05 04:48:07 LoneStar99: we were too busy ranting about anons within anons.....haeffb needs to attend Anonymous Functions Anonymous :) Feb 05 04:48:18 I have read it, but couple of months ago. Will probably make more sense now. Feb 05 04:48:22 lol Feb 05 04:48:31 anon anon. Feb 05 04:48:36 I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Feb 05 04:48:47 Hi My names rick and I'm a closure addict Feb 05 04:49:27 Wait Wait, why is that a bad thing? Oh, no it's NOT a bad thing. :-) Feb 05 04:49:59 did you notice that Palm rolled their own private model? Well they use accepted _ syntax...but they have this exposeMethods thingy that I guess registers the methods that can be called outside the framwork Feb 05 04:50:15 with closure power comes closure responsibility Feb 05 04:50:20 i did. And I think I know why. Feb 05 04:50:36 well they don't want our grubby hands all over things Feb 05 04:50:37 it's so that you can make custom widgets. Feb 05 04:50:52 and widgets can have exposed and unexposed methods. Feb 05 04:50:58 yup Feb 05 04:50:59 by the way, if you're a GTD type, this is pretty nice: http://www.nirvanahq.com/ Feb 05 04:51:26 jfelectron what's going to be super powerful is the ares custom widget methodoology Feb 05 04:51:58 I'm looking at a grid-layout-widget. patterned after the vertical and horizontal layout widgets in ares now. Feb 05 04:52:09 that is perhaps the most novel feature of Ares, unforunately the devs using Ares (read noobs) don't know what to do with that Feb 05 04:52:16 it would make some sorts of chrome dead-simple and do away with the freaking tables. Feb 05 04:52:28 jfelectron that's why I'm starting in on an Ares book. Feb 05 04:52:50 nice...I'll be sure to torrent that when it comes out :) Feb 05 04:53:00 guys, thanks for the help/lecture. I'm heading for zzzzz's. Feb 05 04:53:01 Of course, lately, I've been working with the ares chrome files by hand.... Feb 05 04:53:39 I haven't poked around in Ares much.......I've inherited from a couple widget classes to make custom widgets though Feb 05 04:53:42 oh, jfelectron: did you get the banners thingy working? Feb 05 04:54:04 haeffb: hunkered down with other things more pressing...it was mostly some pre thinking Feb 05 04:54:22 my notification system isn't quite running yet Feb 05 04:54:56 I would kill for Mojo messaging...so desperately want to move the battery sucking bits to server side Feb 05 04:55:29 jfelectron I see hints that this is in the works. Feb 05 04:55:54 chuqui: has thrown out some teases to that effect Feb 05 04:55:58 So, jfelectron since you're working on a notifications system, can I pong your brain for a minute about a different thought??? Feb 05 04:56:21 sure...fire aware Feb 05 04:56:27 ok Feb 05 04:56:34 I've been thinking about bar-controller. Feb 05 04:56:57 which is -for all practical purposes- always there. Feb 05 04:57:33 So, if there's no card rendered.... why couldn't we ENLARGE the bar, and put active content in it, resulting in an "active home screen." ??? Feb 05 04:58:02 ((( this is a varient on Rick's "there's the symbol keyboard, so we already have an on screen keyboard, why not build on that? " thought ... ))) Feb 05 04:58:05 that's quite interesting.....I see no reason why you couldn't fill it will little widgets Feb 05 04:58:21 and publish an API for people to put widgets in it. Feb 05 04:58:41 and have it auto-shrink if there's a card-rendered. Feb 05 04:59:14 not good. forces me to throw away all my cards to see it. Feb 05 04:59:31 the more I think about it, the more I think that everyone who's been building wallpaper modifiers is missing the boat. Feb 05 04:59:31 mmm....how about multiple desktops? Feb 05 04:59:41 * haeffb doesn't understand why people can't get past the "home screen" mentality. Feb 05 04:59:42 active home screen would be so cool Feb 05 05:00:07 I personally don't like desktops or active home screens...but the concept is nice Feb 05 05:00:10 it's a multitasking phone. Use it. Feb 05 05:00:12 haeffb ok, how about we z-index the thing. so that it's BELOW the active cards, and if a card is rendered at full -- then it auto-shrinks. Feb 05 05:00:31 haeffb I have a problem with that. Feb 05 05:00:35 I prefer search as the master UI....I don't go through folders I don't scroll for apps...I search! Feb 05 05:00:42 several problems actually... Feb 05 05:01:20 crap. now you're going to make me stay up another two hours... :) Feb 05 05:01:31 I thought you were gone. Feb 05 05:01:32 it could default to shrink and if you specifically bring it up...then you could slide it above the card Feb 05 05:01:41 i love active home screen...it's like my puters working with me instead of for me Feb 05 05:01:42 yep, you could do that. Feb 05 05:01:49 you could swipe it down Feb 05 05:01:56 then swipe it back up. Feb 05 05:01:57 haeffb yep, you could do THAT Feb 05 05:02:12 not that I really LIKE the idea... :) Feb 05 05:02:17 and if it had a widgets API you could have a weather widget and a task widget and a calendar widget..... Feb 05 05:02:19 but, if you're gonna do it... Feb 05 05:02:29 I like that. Feb 05 05:02:34 I could see hacking the app chooser thingy...whatever that's called Feb 05 05:02:34 except Palm won't let you access the tasks and the calendar. Feb 05 05:02:41 the launch bar Feb 05 05:02:53 haeffb this is a patch -- we can do anything Feb 05 05:03:04 true dat, says Agenda. Feb 05 05:03:09 jfelectron honestly, you're probably right.... Feb 05 05:03:21 launch bar makes more sense since it ALREADY is swipe up Feb 05 05:03:24 dynamic Feb 05 05:03:28 yep Feb 05 05:03:39 no reason we couldn't extend the launch bar. Feb 05 05:03:51 though you'd have to attach it to some other button or gesture Feb 05 05:03:58 why? Feb 05 05:04:20 well unless you're thinking mixing app launchers and widgets....actually I kinda like that Feb 05 05:05:21 jfelectron 1) leave the launch bar where it is. 2) put 4 fixed size widget spaces above it 3) put a second row of launcher buttons above the existing launch bar below the widget blocks. Feb 05 05:05:43 you could easily add another page to the launcher for widgets. Feb 05 05:05:49 so you get top bar / w1 w2 / w3 w4 / ql1 2 3 4/ launch bar Feb 05 05:06:06 sure but come up with a simple fixed spec for the first version. Feb 05 05:06:06 yeah...widgets are going to need some screen real-estate Feb 05 05:06:11 right Feb 05 05:06:29 so a 2x2 grid of widgets, each one gets 160 x 160 Feb 05 05:06:42 which is the same size as a classic palm screen oddly enough... :) Feb 05 05:07:00 intersting historical tidbit there Feb 05 05:09:10 anyway, as I said, I think the folks doing wallpaper modders have been barking up the wrong tree.... Feb 05 05:10:05 yes, anything that makes me throw a card away is wrong. Feb 05 05:10:43 but, rick-home, what is the problem with using the multitasking? Feb 05 05:11:16 this wouldn't force a card toss....the launcher slides OVER everything Feb 05 05:11:24 right right Feb 05 05:11:57 I haven't seen the wallpaper mod implementations....they use a card?? Feb 05 05:13:39 they take your wallpaper, send it to a server, write stuff on it, and send it back. Feb 05 05:14:04 at least, the one I'm thinking of does. Feb 05 05:15:22 some of the odditiies I think stem from weaknesses in the API/WebKit Feb 05 05:17:14 not WebKit...but WebOS's WebKit build Feb 05 05:17:31 now this is /really/ bizarre. Feb 05 05:17:42 I'm making a new audio object and it's causing this dark transparent bar at the top of my page. Feb 05 05:18:08 lol....you just XSS'd WebOS? Feb 05 05:18:16 ! rather Feb 05 05:19:27 that is odd though....I know nothing of audio, but perhaps some sort of widget is being created to hold controls etc? Feb 05 05:20:04 that's what I figured. anyways, I was trying to use a wrapper class I wrote (which worked, but caused the bar), and if I simplify things and just use the Audio object directly it's fine. Feb 05 05:20:06 so whatevvssssssssss Feb 05 05:20:10 I'll just do things the easy way Feb 05 05:23:30 Kuraiou I have it on reasonable authority that the nature of the audio object will change in 1.4 and that you may need to re-think this then. Feb 05 05:25:49 join #webos-internals Feb 05 05:25:57 ahhh its been one of those days.... Feb 05 05:26:49 so it has Feb 05 05:28:57 rick: I see. o_o any hints as to how it will work? Feb 05 05:29:24 I know a lot of developers have been sort of upset with Audio's performance, but I have/had no clue how that will affect implementation Feb 05 05:33:03 Kuraiou I have no way to offer you any details on possible forthcoming software from palm I may or may not have seen... Feb 05 05:33:29 and I can neither confirm nor deny that rick-home can do that. Feb 05 05:33:35 hai hai, wakatta, wakatta Feb 05 05:34:05 hi? Feb 05 05:34:11 hi! Feb 05 05:34:28 ah ok...thought it wasn't registering me Feb 05 05:35:19 hi Jenp :O Feb 05 05:35:27 hi Kuraiou Feb 05 05:36:23 um maybe I have overlooked something but there appears to currently be no way to do a dialog via Ares? Feb 05 05:37:50 I just got my Pre, it's 1.2.1, is it possible to update to 1.3.5.1 through my computer instead of waiting for a cdma download? Feb 05 05:38:23 BoomerET, no wifi? Feb 05 05:38:32 Oh, this has WiFi? Feb 05 05:38:38 :) Feb 05 05:38:44 :) Feb 05 05:38:58 Gonna have to add it, I use MAC filtering. Feb 05 05:39:02 Thanks Feb 05 05:39:05 np Feb 05 05:39:33 XD Feb 05 05:40:28 Ok, it's programmed in, where do I turn it on to scan for networks... Feb 05 05:40:32 * BoomerET looks around... Feb 05 05:40:59 1,410 apps in the official app catalog Feb 05 05:41:58 BoomerET, hit the arrow then wifi Feb 05 05:42:03 wahh, how to read in a json file for parsing...... Feb 05 05:42:03 BoomerET, switch to on Feb 05 05:42:12 Wow, it's flying now, appreciate the help. Feb 05 05:42:31 BoomerET, I was hoping the emulator was indentical to the real thing ;) Feb 05 05:43:21 Hey, If I want to switch this phone to my other cell #, can they do that if I've already activated it? Feb 05 05:43:46 Then again, why, I'll just switch my google voice # to this one. Feb 05 05:45:28 LoneStar99: do you still have a prob that needs working on? Feb 05 05:47:24 BoomerET: re switching your number....as long as you keep paying I don't think they'll care :). Of course I'd imagine you'd want another number on it...like your GV number Feb 05 05:47:38 can you port GV numbers? Feb 05 05:48:38 <__phil__> hi all, I have a 63 character WPA2 password and my Palm Pre Plus will not let me paste it into the wifi setup, nor can I seem to type it correctly into the field Feb 05 05:49:14 <__phil__> i know the wifi works b/c I used the wifi while I was at work today Feb 05 05:50:36 That's.. pretty long Feb 05 05:50:36 =) Feb 05 05:52:17 <__phil__> i admit I'm paranoid Feb 05 05:52:28 <__phil__> but there's no way anybody will be cracking that any time soon Feb 05 05:52:43 jfelectron: yea can't figure out how to limit a user from clicking something more than 5 times real time Feb 05 05:52:54 5 different options Feb 05 05:53:10 LoneStar99: you can't just disable the thing being clicked on after the first time? Feb 05 05:54:07 why doesn't counting work....do the clicks come it too fast? Feb 05 05:55:27 I have 3 invites if anyone would like a Google Voice account. Feb 05 05:55:41 they can take their time clicking but once 5 options are choosen, need to disable the choosing of options... Feb 05 05:56:17 i mean they can click all they want but only 5 options will be saved... Feb 05 05:56:19 BoomerET: I take it won't work very well outside US? Feb 05 05:56:33 zomg, doubtful, sorry. Feb 05 05:57:20 zomg, you ever hear of a company named Framatome? I used to work for them. Feb 05 05:57:40 Nope Feb 05 05:57:45 You're .fr? Feb 05 05:57:49 Nope =) Feb 05 05:58:05 You tricked me :) Feb 05 05:58:12 Nope.. ;) Feb 05 05:58:27 You should've looked at my hostname, not the freenode server they have placed me in Feb 05 05:58:30 =) Feb 05 05:58:34 Oh, .fi, just connected to a .fr server, jeesh Feb 05 05:59:05 It's late, I'm sleepy :) Feb 05 05:59:17 and this update is only half done, time to make some popcorn. Feb 05 06:03:21 LoneStar99: OK so just do this.count+=1 each time your click handler is called and if this.count>5 just return Feb 05 06:05:17 jfelectron: ok will try in abit working in illustrator Feb 05 06:05:19 thanks Feb 05 06:05:49 np Feb 05 06:18:55 <__phil__> apologies for the repeat question: any ideas why I would not be able to connect the Pre Plus to a WPA2 network with a 63-char pw, and why I can't copy/paste the pw to the network setup field? Feb 05 06:21:05 hmmm.....I use WPA2....but not 63-char....don't see why that would matter. C/P might be disabled in the entry field Feb 05 06:23:28 <__phil__> actually, I finally figured out how to paste the password -- must put finger to the side of the gesture button. Still, it tells me the pw is incorrect Feb 05 06:25:02 I'm trying to run preware, and it's telling me the PMS isn't running.WiFi is enabled, and I did a power/restart, any advice? Feb 05 06:29:05 <__phil__> ciao all Feb 05 06:32:21 yay, I just finished the totally unnecessary work of OOPing my preferences into a little class that handles version changes (poorly) Feb 05 06:34:28 Making code better is never totally unnecessary =) Feb 05 06:38:43 hey guys, I'm having a hell of a time.. 5 star app has gone to 3 star in one update because people are getting an 'update failed' message Feb 05 06:39:07 anyone have this problem? overwriting the ipk locally causes no problems, installing fresh has no problems... I have no idea what to do to figure out what's going on with the catalog Feb 05 06:39:54 Just got my Pre a couple hours ago, I'm useless, sorry. Feb 05 06:40:16 gratz BoomerET welcome to the world of awesome Feb 05 06:40:26 mike: that sucks... wish I knew what was wrong :( Feb 05 06:40:55 and you're sure it's not a versioning issue with the people updating? Feb 05 06:41:03 like, something broke in 1.3.5.1 or whatever? Feb 05 06:54:43 k Feb 05 07:10:05 night Feb 05 07:25:41 Since palm has been known to toast cookies on OS updates....isn't it safer to store important prefs in the DB? Feb 05 07:37:32 jfelectron: how about using localStorage? Feb 05 07:37:48 That would suit key value pairs better in my opinion Feb 05 07:38:03 localStorage? Feb 05 07:38:05 (assuming it's available, not actually sure) Feb 05 07:38:21 ah yeah... you could use the depot Feb 05 07:38:34 well I mean just using a pref table....I already have an sqlite backend Feb 05 07:38:38 locally Feb 05 07:38:42 and actually palm does not toast cookies on update, pre looses cookies on reboot Feb 05 07:39:12 joetweeply: even if they have an expiration date in the future? Feb 05 07:39:26 if you have it sure, but a table with just one row? Feb 05 07:39:27 OK....though I swear with 1.3.5 devs complained about random cookie loss Feb 05 07:40:07 zomg dunno, but that was what i experienced in my application and with this app Evernote Feb 05 07:40:11 joetweeply: well I could store a JSON object as a field in the account row Feb 05 07:40:30 joetweeply: it would sound pretty wrong if it deleted cookies which have an expiration date in the future Feb 05 07:41:12 sure it would zomg ... just my own experience, i could be wrong though Feb 05 07:41:55 but if you'd want to switch i'd recommend using the depot because it should be easiest to change the already existant code. cookie stuff and depot stuff look more similar than cookie stuff and sql stuff Feb 05 07:42:00 maybe the cookie was written wrong.. that would explain it, as it's pretty easy to get the date part wrong and that would make the date in it invalid Feb 05 07:42:15 or maybe there is indeed a bug Feb 05 07:42:29 what happens if you don't set a date? is there a default expiration? Feb 05 07:42:46 yeah, the depot would be easier to convert to Feb 05 07:45:41 jfelectron: default expiration is when session ends Feb 05 07:45:57 what's a 'session' in the context of WebOS though? Feb 05 07:46:10 which in pc browsers usually means when you close the browser, and in case of webos I'd assume when you shut down the device Feb 05 07:46:19 or shut down the app Feb 05 07:46:43 would probably depend on what happens to the webkit engine when you close an app Feb 05 07:47:08 If it basically closes a webkit instance when you close the app, then it would probably count that as "session end" Feb 05 07:47:13 nah....cookies are persistent across restarts Feb 05 07:47:22 app restarts? Feb 05 07:47:25 yes Feb 05 07:47:29 they are persistent Feb 05 07:47:39 they're not like browser cookies really at all Feb 05 07:47:42 Yeah in that case it probably would count device shut down as a session end Feb 05 07:48:11 most apps use cookies to store prefs.....so they have to be persistent Feb 05 07:48:38 HTML5 localStorage would work better http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/ Feb 05 07:48:46 could be depot uses it, not really that familiar with mojo stuff myself Feb 05 07:49:04 I don't think localStorage is supported yet Feb 05 07:49:29 ". Cookies are associated with the domain created by webOS for each application by its application id and local to the application and device. Cookies are deleted when the application is deleted." Feb 05 07:50:17 yeah localStorage might be used by the Framework...but AFAIK its not exposed through APIs Feb 05 07:51:08 localStorage would be neat...I want toDataURI() as well Feb 05 07:56:42 if it's used by mojo it's exposed Feb 05 07:56:46 I mean mojo's just a JS wrapper Feb 05 07:56:56 afaik anyway =) Feb 05 07:57:08 try checking if window.localStorage exists, if it does you got it Feb 05 08:04:12 zomg: you can't use private APIs in production code....will be rejected Feb 05 08:05:25 zomg: this.controller.window.localStorage nada :( Feb 05 08:13:02 jfelectron: how do they define a private api? Feb 05 08:13:16 not documented Feb 05 08:13:29 Right Feb 05 08:13:44 but they also built a private methods system into their classes Feb 05 08:14:04 Something else than just prefixing them with _? :P Feb 05 08:14:09 each class has a hash of the 'public' methods, the rest are private Feb 05 08:14:20 zomg: _ isn't really private Feb 05 08:14:30 Well no, but it's a convention commonly used Feb 05 08:14:38 they use that too Feb 05 08:14:46 but not consistently Feb 05 08:14:50 Since the approaches used to emulate private methods often are confusing, require much code or are slow Feb 05 08:15:07 yes, well JS lacks those OO features Feb 05 08:15:53 they have this method called exposeMethods. Each widget passes the public methods as an array to exposeMethods. Feb 05 08:17:54 the actual implementation of that is not in the refcode they distribute with the SDK...so I can only guess how they do it Feb 05 08:18:50 Could be a native extension Feb 05 08:18:57 Shouldn't be too tricky to do Feb 05 08:19:56 is there any timeline around on the roadmap for ares? Feb 05 08:20:01 er Feb 05 08:20:04 ill try that again Feb 05 08:20:15 they don't do timelines period Feb 05 08:20:15 is there any roadmap/timeline on the interwebs for ares? Feb 05 08:20:24 ah k Feb 05 08:20:38 they announce features..but do not have a roadmap for anything publicly Feb 05 08:20:46 ok Feb 05 08:20:53 good idea I guess Feb 05 08:20:55 :) Feb 05 08:21:08 bespin from which Ares is derived does however Feb 05 08:21:48 swishy: are you looking for something in particular? A particular feature I mean... Feb 05 08:22:10 jfelectron, dialogs via UI Feb 05 08:23:55 ahhh...well many widgets aren't available in Ares yet right? Feb 05 08:24:03 yeah Feb 05 08:24:22 * swishy is thinking he's going to have to download project and do it manually Feb 05 08:24:26 :\ Feb 05 08:31:31 ahhh...well keep fighting the good fight...g'nite...or morning depending on where you are Feb 05 08:36:19 swishy: what do you mean dialogs via the UI? Do you mean make a custom dialog in the interface builder? Feb 05 08:46:04 Epix, yeah , be able to select a dialog element and drop stuff into it Feb 05 08:46:58 Epix, I was rambling to jfelectron earlier regarding being able to load a view on the iPhone and having it transparent, I was thinking I could do the same with scenes Feb 05 08:47:23 but of course that isnt the case Feb 05 08:47:29 yeah as far as I know that's not supported yet. I had to create my own custom dialog with html Feb 05 08:47:39 ahh ok :) Feb 05 08:49:48 yeah, I don't know if I would want to create a dialog with the interface builder though. Dialogs should open instantaneously and when using the interface builder for scenes it seems to add 1-2 seconds to the load time. Feb 05 09:00:12 Epix, well im not strickly using it for a dialog Feb 05 09:00:36 it just seems to be the easiest way to achieve a similar effect to what we had on the iPhone Feb 05 09:00:37 :) Feb 05 09:01:13 Epix, basically the likes of the preferences view etc are shown on event ( in the prefs its a shake) Feb 05 09:01:37 and the view gets shown but semi trans so the game view is always in the background Feb 05 09:01:46 Ahh Feb 05 09:01:54 poping anew scene on the pre hides the "main" view Feb 05 09:01:58 yeah I have no idea how you would do that Feb 05 09:01:59 and shows a white bg Feb 05 09:02:38 jfelectron just mentioned I could use a full display dialog with controls on it Feb 05 09:02:46 as you ca nmake them trans Feb 05 09:04:26 Yeah, then you have to do it with html Feb 05 09:14:15 Epix, ok thanks Feb 05 09:14:25 tomorrow nights mission Feb 05 09:17:26 morning all...I'm having trouble finding info on how property substitution works when rendering a view. E.g I'm using Mojo.Controller.stageController.swapScene in one scene assistant to pop the current scene off the stack and push the new one onto the stack. The view of the new scene has #{} property substitutions but I'm not sure where I'm supposed to put the properties that are to be substituted into the view. Feb 05 09:19:47 i don't get that question Feb 05 09:20:38 the new scene has a own assistant, so in the assistant in the setup method you put all the stuff into the view Feb 05 09:22:00 joetweeply: That's my point...say I have the following in my new scene's view: #{game.currentPlayerName}. In my assistant's setup what do I need to do? I tried: this.game = {currentPlayerName: playerName} but it didn't work Feb 05 09:31:22 joetweeply: ? Feb 05 09:53:09 ah now i get it saimon Feb 05 09:53:13 let me check my code Feb 05 09:53:20 joetweeply: thanks Feb 05 09:53:56 where did you try the this.game= ...? Feb 05 09:54:04 in setup or in the constructor? Feb 05 09:55:50 in setup Feb 05 09:56:22 i think the view is already rendered in setup... maybe you could already set it in the assistants constructor Feb 05 09:56:34 ok let me try a asec Feb 05 10:00:38 * saimon pasted http://pastie.textmate.org/private/ilh5yjba8sorvjykrbw2w Feb 05 10:00:52 joetweeply: I tried that...doesn't work Feb 05 10:01:01 I even tried: Feb 05 10:01:39 Mojo.Controller.stageController.swapScene({'name': 'board'},{'gamePresenter': { Feb 05 10:01:39 type: 'Human-Computer', Feb 05 10:01:40 currentPlayer: 'Human' Feb 05 10:01:40 }}); Feb 05 10:02:21 i.e. from a button handled in the previous scene (which is what triggers the scene change) Feb 05 10:03:48 I'm beginning to think it's not even possible. I've been going through the webos samples code. The only times I see property substitution is in widgets or when using Mojo.View.render directly Feb 05 10:07:41 saimon, correct, it isn't Feb 05 10:07:48 not in the scene itself Feb 05 10:07:54 err, in the scene html that is Feb 05 10:08:12 saimon, send it as a parameter and just use like .innerHTML ? Feb 05 10:08:35 jbjoerk: so you have to modify the dom manually in the scene html? Feb 05 10:09:22 or if the value is for a widget, just use the normal widget setup functions Feb 05 10:09:50 a bit lame when property substitution already exists. I'm sure it's using Mojo.View.render under the hood. It could easily pass in the parameters from pushScene/swapScene and use those Feb 05 10:10:17 anyway...thanks for the info...I'll modify things to use dom manipulation Feb 05 10:10:27 hmm... Feb 05 10:10:39 saimon, it might, have you tried looking at the source? Feb 05 10:11:27 just thought...why not have a blank scene html and use Mojo.View.render myself directly to actually produce the scene (perhaps to very performant)...no haven't looked at the source but that's what I'm going to do next :) thanks Feb 05 10:11:44 (not very performant) Feb 05 10:11:51 controller_stage.js: 1081 Feb 05 10:14:32 hello webos world! Feb 05 10:15:33 * AbSaR is going to start working on an irc client for webos, please inform if its already done Feb 05 10:15:41 it is Feb 05 10:15:58 where can i find it? Feb 05 10:16:00 it's wIRC, and i used it yesterday Feb 05 10:16:03 it's on preware Feb 05 10:16:28 jbjoerk: it passes the custom arguments you pass to push/swapScene to setup but just passes this to the actual render Feb 05 10:16:29 ah let me see, will need to think over some other idea for my final year project :> Feb 05 10:16:58 i'd love to see a "Jones" clone game Feb 05 10:17:43 so in theory if I set the properties on the stage controller it should work Feb 05 10:17:56 only if i had idea what "Jones" is Feb 05 10:18:28 saimon, yeah I know. Wonder if you could actually monkeypatch the StageController object to contain your attributes Feb 05 10:18:37 saimon, pretty ugly and fragile though O_o Feb 05 10:18:48 yeah very hacky but worth a try Feb 05 10:19:39 http://www.dosgamesonline.com/index/game/657/Jones_in_the_Fast_Lane.html Feb 05 10:19:45 this is jones AbSaR Feb 05 10:19:46 jbjoerk: it does.... Feb 05 10:20:21 saimon, neat trick indeed :) Probably worth it to file it as an enhancement request Feb 05 10:20:22 e.g. Mojo.Controller.stageController.myProperty = {x:1, y:2} Feb 05 10:20:37 jbjoerk: yep Feb 05 10:20:50 * AbSaR downloading Feb 05 10:21:21 joetweeply: been following this? So now you know ;) Feb 05 10:24:04 sadly not saimon ... there are always people here around me asking for attention Feb 05 10:25:29 joetweeply: summary. If you set your properties on the stageController itself before calling push/swapScene, you get property substitution directly in the scene html. (thanks to jbjoerk) Feb 05 10:25:53 cool thanks... that really works? looks ugly Feb 05 10:32:56 anyone know a good way of combining two lists? The issue is that since list A will render a palm-row last as the last item, which means I won't have an item divider between the two lists Feb 05 10:33:17 (I'm actually only doing 1 list + 1 extra item rendered directly in the html) Feb 05 10:57:46 btw has anybody managed to get the mojomatters sample app running on the simulator? It seems to be very buggy. It first started to complain about a bad appinfo.json. I fixed that and then it complains: error: The load of framework submission trunk failed. Perhaps it is not installed? Feb 05 11:00:34 saimon, look in the index.html Feb 05 11:00:38 check the line that includes mojo Feb 05 11:00:46 never heard of the mojomatters app though Feb 05 11:01:03 jbjoerk: it's in webos samples...checking Feb 05 11:02:40 jbjoerk: fixed it thanks Feb 05 11:07:07 jbjoerk: To save app state when an app exists what is the expected mechanism to be used Mojo.Depot? Feb 05 11:07:40 saimon, no idea. I Feb 05 11:07:53 saimon, what kind of state do you mean? Feb 05 11:07:59 e.g. game state Feb 05 11:08:25 so that the next time they open the app the game is where they left it Feb 05 11:08:43 the only thing I could find is Mojo.Depot but I may be missing something Feb 05 12:13:49 saimon: cookies, depot, or sqlite dbs Feb 05 13:00:56 hos do i get data from another scene? Feb 05 13:07:07 noaXess, you can give arguments to swap/pushScene Feb 05 13:41:28 jbjoerk: ok.. or save data in a depot and read it from there.. Feb 05 13:42:42 jbjoerk: like this? this.controller.stageController.pushScene("GetInfo", 'FunambolHost' = this.FunambolHost_model.value); Feb 05 13:43:20 yeah, but that Feb 05 13:43:24 's a syntax error Feb 05 13:44:09 pushScene(scenename,value1,value2,value3) or if you want to pass a dictionary, pushScene(scenename, {'moot': 'keff'}); Feb 05 13:45:22 with a. Feb 05 13:45:24 : Feb 05 13:46:06 corrected: this.controller.stageController.pushScene("GetInfo", {'FunambolHost': this.FunambolHost_model.value}); Feb 05 13:46:16 right? Feb 05 13:48:18 do you have any link from palm, where this is described so i can read it trough Feb 05 13:58:51 noaXess you want the link at developer.palm.com that documents pushscene??? Feb 05 13:59:29 no .. problem solved.. i mean, i haven't foudn this information on developer.palm.com.. so googled and found the answer.. ;) Feb 05 13:59:37 aj Feb 05 13:59:44 ah -- well, it's there, I promise. Feb 05 14:26:36 testing Feb 05 14:26:40 y Feb 05 15:02:08 toasting Feb 05 15:02:16 is there a way to activate the spinning on a button when scene is loading? type: Mojo.Widget.activityButton Feb 05 15:02:17 oO Feb 05 15:02:50 noaXess you can activate the spinner on the button immediately after you instantiate it Feb 05 15:02:54 in activate. Feb 05 15:03:12 in the button attributes? Feb 05 15:03:56 of after stupWidget? Feb 05 15:04:04 setupWidget ^ Feb 05 15:04:18 you call the activate method of the button after setupwidget. Feb 05 15:04:24 so you set it up Feb 05 15:04:57 this.controller.get('RefreshButton').mojo.activate(); Feb 05 15:04:59 and then in the scene's activate method, at the top call $('buttonid').activate Feb 05 15:05:42 aha.. or this.controller.get('RefreshButton').mojo.activate(); Feb 05 15:05:52 leave the mojo out. Feb 05 15:06:24 the activate method is a method of the button itself. Feb 05 15:06:54 I have no idea what a call to buttonWidget.mojo.activate() is supposed to do although it is listed on the references page. Feb 05 15:07:20 hm.. Feb 05 15:07:53 the button itself is activated.. but i want that the spinning on the button is starting, when the button/scene is loaded... Feb 05 15:08:21 right Feb 05 15:08:56 so in sceneName.Prototype.activate place a call to $('buttonName').activate() and that will cause the spinner to spin when the scene comes up Feb 05 15:16:17 hm.. will not Feb 05 15:16:56 Hi all...question about sources.json: I have a number of custom js files that I need to load. They model the game I'm writing. I've split them up into individual files. I've added them into sources.json but I get an error (no other error message) whenever I try to access functions from these files. These files are dependant on them loading in some sort of order. So is the order I specify them in sources.json, the order they will be loaded in? And if it's suppo Feb 05 15:16:56 be lazy loaded how does mojo know when/which to load? Feb 05 15:17:54 needless to say the documentation on sources.json is very sparse Feb 05 15:21:58 saimon: I thought that file, specified where, and not when loaded. The load happens from stage.assistant ? Feb 05 15:22:45 FreeTim: Not sure but from docs: "To improve application launch times, use sources.json to load your JavaScript files on demand instead of loading them all when the application launchs. " Feb 05 15:23:36 If I were supposed to be loading them from the stageAssistant would I be inserting script statements into the dom? Then what's the point of sources.json? Feb 05 15:24:18 I think the issue here is one of dependency management. I'm guessing sources.json doesn't do any dependency management Feb 05 15:24:42 saimon welcome and that's a good question. Feb 05 15:25:05 sources.json is SUPPOSED to load them in the order in which they are listed. Feb 05 15:25:20 Rick_work: thanks for the welcome...mojo sdk newbie but long time web developer. Feb 05 15:25:37 Generally, I strongly suggest loading all your dependent javascripts above the stage or app assistant Feb 05 15:26:00 Rick_work: Can you hold on while I try that Feb 05 15:26:19 honestly, if I cared a lot about order, I would concatinate all them into a single file and put IT at the top of sources.json. Feb 05 15:26:27 I thought the point of sources.json was, to avoid loading all of them in the main index.html (all at once on app start) Feb 05 15:26:49 and so I thought, it was a reference file... and they are acutally loaded in as called/ needed via stage assitant Feb 05 15:27:02 Freetim, that's true of stage assistants and scene assistants Feb 05 15:27:24 have some divs that I use "event.target.id" to identfy, but need to increase var counter by one with each tap, how would I go about that... Feb 05 15:27:27 but for "global tools" which are in utitlity js files, how does the system know which scenes are dependent on which utilities.... Feb 05 15:28:00 We need a way to contact people who review an app...... Feb 05 15:28:03 LoneStar99 in the on-click of the div, or set a listenener and increment based on id? Feb 05 15:28:07 CTLAdvance we do. Feb 05 15:28:10 um I mean good morning Feb 05 15:28:13 mention that to chuqui again. Feb 05 15:28:14 Rick_work: yes, I'd do that for deployment but I'm just in dev mode Feb 05 15:28:19 will do Feb 05 15:28:32 saimon if you're in dev mode, put them in index.html and to hell with it. :-) Feb 05 15:28:38 Or at least a way to contact them and see what they mean/if they are having an issue Feb 05 15:28:48 Rick_work: That was my plan B :) Feb 05 15:28:59 I might as well try and learn to do it the palm way ;) Feb 05 15:29:13 have this "Mojo.Event.listen(this.controller.document,Mojo.Event.tap,this.scSwap.bind(this)); " Feb 05 15:29:33 but not sure what part to refer to increase... Feb 05 15:30:45 Rick_work: So I guess for "global" js libs it's not really loading them on demand at all...i.e. there wouldn't be any noticeable difference if I did stick them in index.html right? Feb 05 15:31:00 saimon -- correct. Feb 05 15:31:19 ok...well seems like you're suggestion of sticking them before the stageAssistant works Feb 05 15:31:41 If I have any other issues related to dependency I'll know what to do ;) Feb 05 15:32:06 saimon good. basically, it loads them in the order it sees them. But lazy-loads anything with a stage or scene name associated with it. No stage or scene name, no lazy load Feb 05 15:32:56 yeah figured as much because otherwise I couldn't see how it was possible for them to do that (lazy load globals I mean) Feb 05 15:35:33 If you delete an update request, does it delete the app in the catalog? Feb 05 15:35:42 I would assume not Feb 05 15:37:53 Rick_work: quick question: If I pass in params to pushScene, e.g. pushScene({name: board}, {gameType:'computer'}), in my scene assistants setup(), how can I access the params. I ask becuase BoardAssistant.prototype.setup = function(params){} gives me params undefined Feb 05 15:41:23 Rick_work: nm... Ifigured it out, it's passed to the constructor not the setup() function Feb 05 15:42:54 Rick_work: so much for not using globals, a global fixed the problem =) Feb 05 15:44:52 LoneStar99 hahahahahahahaha Feb 05 15:44:58 Old guys rule Feb 05 15:48:02 with out the three globals my app uses, it would not function without a global Feb 05 15:52:46 LoneStar99 what I usually do is make a global OBJECT.... Feb 05 15:53:06 So that I can reference global.prop1 and global.prop2 Feb 05 15:53:18 so that I never have a scope problem with refering to myy globals. Feb 05 15:55:09 oh ok, gonna try that Feb 05 15:56:18 thanks Feb 05 15:59:07 Rick_work: like the following? function myobject() {this.containedValue = 0; this.othercontainedValue = 0; this.anothercontainedValue = 0;} Feb 05 15:59:51 well, that's not how _I_ do it.... but you can do it that way. Feb 05 16:00:05 k Feb 05 16:01:04 what I generally do is include a utility.js in my sources.json above everything else... and then at the top of that outside of any function at all, I do var Global = {}; Feb 05 16:01:27 then I can reference that and explicitly modify properties in that object. Global.frogs=23; Feb 05 16:01:28 etc. Feb 05 16:01:41 that way I -know- I'm referencing a global and so does everyone else. Feb 05 16:03:28 that makes, sense, one thing i do notice, without your method can differeniate between a global and regular var... Feb 05 16:04:01 i can't differeniate Feb 05 16:05:15 exactly. that's why I do it. I -never- create a variable without a var in front. Ever. and so, the only one that is created OUTSIDE A FUNCTION is Global, so anything that referneces anyting in the global object is a global, and anything else is not. SImple dimple. Feb 05 16:06:00 right on thanks Feb 05 16:11:09 1,416 and apps in the official app catalog for anyone that wants to know Feb 05 16:14:28 Does that include web apps? Feb 05 16:14:34 or web distro apps Feb 05 16:14:41 as the actual catalog says 1367 Feb 05 16:15:58 just the official app catalog Feb 05 16:17:02 where did you get 1416 from? Feb 05 16:17:25 from the feed Feb 05 16:17:39 bah, I WONDER WHY THE DEVICE ONLY SHOWS 1367 THEN Feb 05 16:17:50 SORRY CAPS IS ON Feb 05 16:17:53 er.. caps is on Feb 05 16:18:12 didnt mean to scream Feb 05 16:18:20 build a search engine that crawls the app store apps. Feb 05 16:18:26 built Feb 05 16:18:45 http://buildasearch.com/palm/ Feb 05 16:20:44 if you can't find it in the app store try our search Feb 05 16:41:36 hey Robdor, wanna test an app for me? Feb 05 16:52:02 lyht: Sure thing Feb 05 16:56:47 LoneStar99:didn't you already build that app? Feb 05 16:56:59 which app? Feb 05 16:57:07 app catalog search Feb 05 16:57:19 yeah i built it, but never released it, Feb 05 16:57:31 still thinking about it Feb 05 16:57:38 so, do you do anything besides search apps? Feb 05 16:57:47 that's probably why you're burning out Feb 05 16:57:59 added it buildasearch app Feb 05 16:58:07 added it to Feb 05 16:59:17 i want to build another type of app soon, but need to make the buildasearch app better, maybe release the app cat app, then need have a partnership with a search company to build a search app... Feb 05 16:59:23 Robdor: what is your current email? Feb 05 16:59:35 then have Feb 05 17:00:29 so search is kinda in the blood for now, hopefully by the mid month or so can begin building a "graphical" app Feb 05 17:05:04 need to close a scene after 5 seconds of inactivity, and display "closing in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1"... Feb 05 17:08:38 woooo my app update is already in the catalog for today Feb 05 17:08:41 sweeeeeeeeet Feb 05 17:09:06 pandora: what app is it? Feb 05 17:09:12 ok, quick everybody go buy it. it's going to my honeymoon fund in a few weeks :D :D Feb 05 17:09:25 LoneStar99: iHate411 Feb 05 17:09:29 only if you buy mine Feb 05 17:09:39 lol Feb 05 17:09:40 CTLAdvance: which one? you have a bunch Feb 05 17:09:48 Bing Wallpaper Search Feb 05 17:09:57 CTLAdvance: lemme look it up Feb 05 17:11:21 CTLAdvance: whats it called exactly? catalog search sucks Feb 05 17:11:48 Bing Wallpaper Search Feb 05 17:11:50 pandora: just remembered, tested your app before you released it, cool app! Feb 05 17:12:12 http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.ctladvance.bingwallpapers Feb 05 17:13:14 LoneStar99: thanks Feb 05 17:13:27 searching for the exact title didnt even give me results to find it Feb 05 17:13:27 hah Feb 05 17:13:36 CTLAdvance: ok, i'm buying it Feb 05 17:13:38 hello Feb 05 17:13:47 CTLAdvance: don't back down now from our deal ;) Feb 05 17:14:03 what are the parameters of the extractfs? Feb 05 17:14:12 the extractfs function Feb 05 17:14:37 filename:donno:donno:width:height:donno Feb 05 17:14:44 a question if i release a app catalog search engine would anyone buy it for .99 cents? Feb 05 17:14:55 saltyj, google it, it's a standard linux thing I believe Feb 05 17:14:56 Yes Feb 05 17:15:07 no Feb 05 17:15:17 maybe Feb 05 17:15:20 LoneStar99 Most likely Yes if it does something better than the browser Feb 05 17:15:31 But dont expect a milli from it Feb 05 17:15:33 CTLAdvance: ok, you have my 1.99 (-30%) Feb 05 17:15:59 Thanks for buying my pron loader ;) Feb 05 17:16:05 hehehehehee Feb 05 17:16:22 it is just a simple search, but results are hella more accurate than the app catalog Feb 05 17:16:26 whaaat? pron?? i was just going to look at some used tires Feb 05 17:16:27 search Feb 05 17:16:44 oh you mean an app catalog search Feb 05 17:16:55 not expecting a mill, but will have to bust out $50 to release it Feb 05 17:16:58 here is a question... why not just release it Feb 05 17:17:10 jbjoerk..ok thanks Feb 05 17:17:26 yo should make at least that over time if not more Feb 05 17:17:28 CTLAdvance: these are very accurate results to my intention. Feb 05 17:17:39 what? Feb 05 17:17:47 you mean the search results? Feb 05 17:17:49 the $50 bucks is now in effect right? Feb 05 17:17:58 yes unfortunately Feb 05 17:18:02 unless its OSS Feb 05 17:18:20 bummer Feb 05 17:18:33 i can open source be a paid app? Feb 05 17:18:49 Yes you will need another account though that is oss Feb 05 17:18:57 but then anyone can copy your code Feb 05 17:19:01 yes, but you have to not care if someone else uses all your hard-fought time and frustration Feb 05 17:19:10 exactly Feb 05 17:19:24 ytes Feb 05 17:19:27 yes Feb 05 17:19:35 sugardave: yeah very true Feb 05 17:19:50 i think i'll pay the $50 bucks Feb 05 17:19:59 with a million phones at least, you should make back your .99 Feb 05 17:20:04 just update it a few times Feb 05 17:20:13 what about $1.49? Feb 05 17:20:21 CTLAdvance: ok, and even gave you a 5-star review :) Feb 05 17:20:29 that might be high for just app catalog search Feb 05 17:20:40 ok .99$ Feb 05 17:20:47 Thanks pandora, let me take a look at iHate411 Feb 05 17:20:53 there's no way you won't get $50 over time...even BOFH Excuse Generator (which basically tells a WHOLE lot of people not to download it in the description) is almost at break-even..think I need 2 more Feb 05 17:21:18 is there a way in Javascript or Mojo to find out the dimensions of an image ? Feb 05 17:21:40 Did you provide an excuse for why the app should be downloaded Feb 05 17:21:46 saltyj: stick it in a div and chech div.height and div.width Feb 05 17:21:54 sugardave: gonna release the app, just need to rebuild a few things in it Feb 05 17:22:11 CTLAdvance: no :D Feb 05 17:22:15 heh Feb 05 17:22:36 i had my other app featured during christmas time, that kicked ASS Feb 05 17:22:43 that made such a huge difference Feb 05 17:23:09 sugardave: interesting...will that work if i have a div where the visibility is hidden or display is none ? Feb 05 17:23:29 LoneStar99, my advice make it free, sign up with admob and add ads to it Feb 05 17:23:37 you might make more that way Feb 05 17:23:51 pay teh 50 and let r rip Feb 05 17:23:57 CTLadvance: does admob let WebOS have graphic ads yet or is it all text ? Feb 05 17:24:20 yes Feb 05 17:24:26 use the new api they provided Feb 05 17:24:26 you can do graphic ads with adfonic for sure Feb 05 17:24:28 its nice Feb 05 17:24:38 itstricky but once you get it going works well Feb 05 17:24:49 is it specific for webos? Feb 05 17:24:54 no Feb 05 17:25:01 basically its just html and js Feb 05 17:25:02 does a bunch of platforms Feb 05 17:25:08 would work on anything Feb 05 17:25:16 admob is for a bunch of platforms Feb 05 17:25:37 I made 650 in dec for maybe 2 hours worth of work, sadly as an experiment Feb 05 17:25:45 anyone here made money with AdMob, not including "Reality90210"??? Feb 05 17:25:46 hehe Feb 05 17:25:52 yes Feb 05 17:26:06 ctladvance: can you get me a link where i can get the new api for admob to server graphic ads? all of mine come out as text Feb 05 17:26:15 one of our apps was downloaded over 30k times Feb 05 17:26:19 saltyj: I don't know about invisible divs Feb 05 17:26:27 nope. But palm has paid me just under a grand so far... which is probably on the close order of $1 an hour for the work I've put in since June. :-) Feb 05 17:27:27 just need to use the one they provide its right in the site now I think Feb 05 17:27:40 was redirecting users to google code Feb 05 17:27:45 Rick_work: yep, I'm targetting March as my $1K mark...would like to hit $5K by the end of the year Feb 05 17:27:59 ctladvance: oh so it's not the google code one anymore? that's what i've been using Feb 05 17:28:43 saltyj: you can also write your own: http://webos101.com/AdMob Feb 05 17:29:06 sugardave: thx i'll check it out Feb 05 17:29:16 yeah, I think it still is Feb 05 17:30:40 lonestar: admob has made us some money but it's pretty small Feb 05 17:31:10 I've made a whopping $20 from Quattro Wireless Feb 05 17:32:28 I mean you can open source obfuscated code right Feb 05 17:32:32 its still readable Feb 05 17:32:38 ;p Feb 05 17:33:59 I guess not really Feb 05 17:34:58 saltyj: ok, thanks, will make "app cat" a .99$ download Feb 05 17:36:33 It looks like adMob has an option that every time someone sees and ad in your app, they will show and ad of yours in another app. Anyone do this? Any luck with it? Feb 05 17:36:44 might as well help out palm's profits, Feb 05 17:36:56 "sees and ad" = "sees an ad" Feb 05 17:41:13 CTLAdvance: ah you didn't hook in the enter key Feb 05 17:41:17 tsktsk Feb 05 17:43:58 argh Feb 05 17:44:06 haha Feb 05 17:44:18 oops Feb 05 17:44:58 ill have to push an updatethen Feb 05 17:47:25 you buy my app yet? Feb 05 17:48:02 done Feb 05 17:48:09 yes I have Feb 05 17:49:09 w00t Feb 05 17:49:12 thanks :) Feb 05 17:49:41 hey this works pretty good Feb 05 17:49:50 It may get moved up on my launcher Feb 05 17:53:24 :D Feb 05 17:53:27 glad to hear Feb 05 17:53:32 i actually use it all the time Feb 05 17:53:55 so many times, honestly, I don't need a map to load just to get a phone number Feb 05 17:54:35 and this update i introduced the "favorites", so you don't even have to wait for the network to get the places you call frequently Feb 05 17:55:00 mmm Feb 05 17:55:02 very nice Feb 05 18:08:03 In admob, i Have my site type as "Normal Mobile Website". That was before WebOS had some admob support. anyone know how to change that? Feb 05 18:08:41 anyone have some advice on actually getting spinners to spin while doing some long process? Feb 05 18:12:51 I'm trying to run themer in webOS quick install (which does see my device), and I'm getting the xml error, I've seen on precentral other people have had the same problem, but I've not found a solution Feb 05 18:15:50 this.spinnerModel.value=true; Feb 05 18:16:56 this.controller.modelChanged(this.spinnerModel) Feb 05 18:17:45 haeffb_pre: I know that. However, the spinner spins briefly then freezes when I run a long process. Feb 05 18:18:36 haeffb_pre: I'm looking for a solution similar to the spinner in the Feeds app. Feb 05 18:26:01 break long processes up into shorter processes. apps are single threaded, I think Feb 05 18:29:06 haeffb_pre: yeah, single threaded ftl Feb 05 18:29:56 is the dev behind Feeds in here? Feb 05 18:31:37 An app called feeds, or something else? Feb 05 18:32:55 Rick_work: the dev behind Feeds Feb 05 18:33:25 Rick_work: I just wanted to see how he implemented his spinner Feb 05 18:33:49 so an app called Feeds, not the dev responsible for any particular feed's management. OK Feb 05 18:34:53 Rick_work: sorry I wasn't clear Feb 05 18:49:35 how do you get adfonic to integrate with WebOS ? Feb 05 18:54:52 saltyj: you can probably just use the html/js version Feb 05 18:54:59 or you can hit their api directly using json Feb 05 19:09:03 pandora: when i go to ad integration, there's only options for Java EE and PHP. where i can get more info on using their API or the html/js version ? Feb 05 19:42:12 does anyone compress their source before they release, and if so what do you use? Feb 05 19:46:48 hellow #webos folks... Feb 05 19:47:48 i've gotten a bit bored with the facebook client app, so i've removed all the sensitive bits and put the whole thing up on github... i figure somebody might like some of the bits therein... Feb 05 19:48:05 and besides, it's an interesting (incomplete) demo of a larger app Feb 05 19:48:09 http://www.ordecon.com/2010/02/04/bluewasp-facebook-client-for-webos-devices/ Feb 05 19:49:36 anyone here? Feb 05 19:49:49 hi Feb 05 19:49:56 ivanst: neat Feb 05 19:49:58 howdu Feb 05 19:50:01 y Feb 05 19:50:10 what facebook app is this? Feb 05 19:50:16 so .99$ for app cat? Feb 05 19:50:23 hello ivanst Feb 05 19:50:42 LoneStar99: app cat what? Feb 05 19:51:30 it is an app Feb 05 19:52:03 app catalog search engine Feb 05 19:52:14 oh, you are asking if 99 cents is an okay price? Feb 05 19:52:27 Ok, it's official. I have a contract for "Ares in Action" with Manning. Yippee!!!! Feb 05 19:52:43 Rick_work: nice! Feb 05 19:54:31 nice: Rick_work! Feb 05 19:54:43 now of course, I have to write it. Feb 05 19:54:45 who is manning? payton? Feb 05 19:54:52 lol Feb 05 19:55:05 http://www.manning.com/ Feb 05 19:56:28 LoneStar99: still pimpin that app eh? :) Feb 05 19:56:39 yeah, submitting it now Feb 05 19:56:58 rick_work: i want an autographed copy of your book! Feb 05 19:57:21 the palm server is at a stall.... Feb 05 19:57:44 it says submit once... and it is just hanging.... Feb 05 19:57:46 LoneStar99 that can be arranged. Feb 05 19:58:28 awesome! Feb 05 19:59:52 LoneStar99: hung for me too... but after like 5 minutes it said "Thank you" Feb 05 20:00:06 "Thank you for submitting your app to Palm. Your app has entered our automated submission flow and will be available to install on compatible devices within 2 hours from now. To install your app, use the following URL from a device or via the web:" Feb 05 20:00:26 apps do not have to be approved now? Feb 05 20:00:56 Wait did you doa paid submission? Feb 05 20:01:02 or web? Feb 05 20:01:11 not sure... wanted paid... Feb 05 20:01:23 I think you did web Feb 05 20:01:28 fu-ck Feb 05 20:01:29 rather than app catalog Feb 05 20:02:12 through web the app is a free download? Feb 05 20:02:27 Is there an easy way to use enter to call an action from a text box or do I need to listen for it Feb 05 20:02:47 LoneStar99 email chuq Feb 05 20:03:06 did it ask for paypal? Feb 05 20:03:11 Lonestar^ Feb 05 20:03:13 nope... Feb 05 20:03:20 then you didnt do catalog Feb 05 20:03:31 I would change the app id and submit it again in the catalog Feb 05 20:03:33 would have thought app catalog is the default like beofe Feb 05 20:03:57 did you not read the form? Feb 05 20:03:59 ;) Feb 05 20:05:07 Submit would have actually been a paypal button on the final step Feb 05 20:05:28 looks like web distro is the new default Feb 05 20:05:29 yeah... i submitted apps before they began charging all new to me... Feb 05 20:10:00 I was actually excited to pay the $50 bucks... Feb 05 20:15:53 anyone here having problems when updating their apps? My users are getting a 'download failed' message, and then they can't even access the old version.. Feb 05 20:16:13 downloading an update doesn't even run any code until the app is launched, right? Feb 05 20:18:19 downloading an update will replace the old one though... so if a download fails, it can break the old one. Feb 05 20:19:36 download fails shouldnt break anything Feb 05 20:19:42 install fails might Feb 05 20:20:06 it just downloads the ipk, then it installs by unpacking it Feb 05 20:21:16 I just had the same thing mikemcelligott is describing. I had an older test version of pitch pipe on my phone, tried to do an update when the new one published and it failed (because I didn't actually purchase it before) and then I couldn't open the old one anymore. Feb 05 20:21:56 sorry, got cut off... I suppose I should pay developers for their efforts :) Mirc registered.. Feb 05 20:22:13 anyway, anyone seen the update download problem from the app catalog? Feb 05 20:23:09 mikec, here was some conversations while you were gone: Feb 05 20:23:23 downloading an update will replace the old one though... so if a download fails, it can break the old one. Feb 05 20:23:38 why would my users be having the problem consistently? Feb 05 20:23:39 I just had the same thing mikemcelligott is describing. I had an older test version of pitch pipe on my phone, tried to do an update when the new one published and it failed (because I didn't actually purchase it before) and then I couldn't open the old one anymore. Feb 05 20:24:04 if you click the "download failed" button and choose "do not download" THEN the old version is still available Feb 05 20:24:05 However, that was different, because palm didn't have record of me paying for it, so it failed on the update Feb 05 20:24:22 interesting Feb 05 20:24:34 that's interesting.. that could be the reason it failed for me too, though it doesn't explain my user problem Feb 05 20:24:46 two of them took their previous ratings of 5 stars and changed it to zero... frustrating Feb 05 20:24:58 I wish I had a way to contact them directly, or indirectly Feb 05 20:26:38 dont worry about the rating... chuq will remove those since it is of no fault of your app Feb 05 20:27:34 I was wondering about that: I have more reviews on my developer page than are visible in the catalog. Feb 05 20:28:25 Kuraiou: they also just show the last batch of reviews in the catalog Feb 05 20:29:19 there are only 4 total, and only 2 are showing. How do they "batch" it? Feb 05 20:30:20 Kuraiou: mmm. that is different. What I meant is that they seem to only show the last 30 reviews. Feb 05 20:30:38 And I dont know where to see the reviews in the portal... where is that Feb 05 20:32:24 or are you saying that the portal says "4", but you only see 2. Feb 05 20:33:08 it would be cool to see all the reviews in the portal. Feb 05 20:35:37 lyht, correct, and yes it would. Feb 05 20:35:49 to any Palm Employees listening: MAKE IT SO :) Feb 05 20:38:13 the count and the reviews get updated differently Feb 05 20:38:18 there's a lag on the actual reviews showing up Feb 05 20:39:38 this has been a week now, Pandora. Feb 05 20:39:45 actually, over a week. Feb 05 20:39:48 hehe Feb 05 20:40:03 I don't really care, I've got my 4 stars and I'm happy, but it's kinda weird, y'know? Feb 05 20:40:07 I want to see what Palm doesn't want the users to see. :) Feb 05 20:40:27 is there somewhere to see when certain api's were added to certain builds? I need to screen users to use a certain api. Feb 05 20:41:40 hrm... how to do dynamic widgets... Feb 05 20:42:48 natenrb9: hm Feb 05 20:44:04 and I'm still getting that weird transparency from the Audio object ;| Feb 05 20:46:32 Anyone wanna test my new version of Manic 8 Ball? Feb 05 20:46:34 http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.orbsix.app.manic8ballbeta Feb 05 20:47:58 k Feb 05 20:50:10 lyht: nifty, but I did notice some lag when triggering it via shake Feb 05 20:50:13 dunno why x.x Feb 05 20:50:37 works well, th Feb 05 20:50:38 p Feb 05 20:50:39 tho* Feb 05 20:52:46 anyone - is there somewhere to see when certain api's were added to certain builds?  I need to screen users to use a certain api. Feb 05 20:54:36 natenrb9: which apis in particular are you worried about? Feb 05 20:54:59 natenrb9: i'd assume the palm updates have changelogs Feb 05 20:55:02 Mojo.Controller.stageController.setWindowProperties({fastAccelerometer:true}); Feb 05 20:55:30 that's a 1.3.5 update nate Feb 05 20:55:34 maybe 1.3.4 Feb 05 20:56:13 I think users phones with older builds are freezing… Would this cause a phone to freeze if you didn't have this api in your build? Feb 05 20:56:21 lyht: not sure,what it does in emoticons... Feb 05 20:56:51 I would think that it just freezed the app Feb 05 20:56:57 and throws a js error Feb 05 20:56:58 not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised.. I was having freezing issues with fastAccelerometer as well, but it turns out that my handling event was just too heavy Feb 05 20:57:09 so the events were piling up without being handled quickly enough Feb 05 20:57:10 oh yeah Feb 05 20:57:35 CTLAdvance: that is what I meant, app freeze Feb 05 20:57:54 LoneStar99: you mean it is acting weird? Or you are not sure what the emoticons mean? (What is yes, no, and maybe)? Feb 05 20:58:11 yeah, needed to restart the app Feb 05 20:58:29 now it works Feb 05 20:58:43 Blargh. So I have some dynamically generated HTML and I want to put some widgets in there. valid div tag and then controller.setupWidget is not enough Feb 05 20:59:28 if u go from one option to another, it seems to laG... Feb 05 21:00:49 LoneStar99: so you picked emoticons, backswipe, and then it would hang and the taping or shaking no longer works. Feb 05 21:01:01 shaking works for emoticons for me Feb 05 21:01:31 shaking is slower, but okay Feb 05 21:01:58 yeah, that's what I was experiencing. Feb 05 21:02:42 cool, good job. what are you going to charge? Feb 05 21:03:16 you should watch the x and y, determine whether or not there is acceleration z or something and respond with 'yes' or 'no' depending on some value Feb 05 21:03:29 then I don't have to configure it but I can predetermine the outcome :) Feb 05 21:03:46 "should you go home with me tonight?" SEE? Feb 05 21:03:54 mikemcelligott: that would be interesting. A cool trick to force the reponse to fool people? Funny! Feb 05 21:04:12 It might have a lot of utility for me at the bar scene. ;) Feb 05 21:05:08 Thanks all for testing. It's free... trying for one of the prizes. Anyone try any other language? Feb 05 21:05:11 lyht: it works fine, just a little sluggish sometimes Feb 05 21:05:30 lyht what app is it? Feb 05 21:05:31 good luck on the pirze Feb 05 21:05:32 prize Feb 05 21:05:45 good luck! Feb 05 21:05:45 been racking my brain for the brilliant idea for that myself Feb 05 21:06:15 CTLAdvance: manic 8 ball Feb 05 21:06:28 Manic depressive 8 ball? Feb 05 21:06:33 or magic 8 ball Feb 05 21:06:40 :) Feb 05 21:06:55 Bipolar 8 Ball, responds with DSM diagnoses? Feb 05 21:07:04 anyone know how the build number works?  Is it the same for everyone on the same version? Feb 05 21:07:04 I am running 1.3.5.1 and have a build number of 200.72 Feb 05 21:07:33 well that dependsif your early access dev who gets early builds Feb 05 21:07:45 production builds also depend on where your located Feb 05 21:07:54 I think europe/gsm is on 1.3.5.2 Feb 05 21:07:55 build 220 Feb 05 21:08:02 1.3.5.1 Feb 05 21:08:22 can you see me or do I need to identify? Feb 05 21:08:23 no idea what's different, but I'm guessing the different carriers might have different builds Feb 05 21:08:33 we can see you Feb 05 21:08:38 mikemcelligott: where are you and what carrier? Feb 05 21:08:42 sprint, us Feb 05 21:08:47 weird Feb 05 21:08:48 can you read me now? Feb 05 21:08:48 me too Feb 05 21:08:54 can still read you CTL Feb 05 21:08:57 anyone? Feb 05 21:09:06 CTLAdvance: yes Feb 05 21:09:09 excellent Feb 05 21:09:17 Depends on a few things Feb 05 21:09:17 pfft, guess I'll just use regular inputs instead of widgets :O Feb 05 21:09:23 Is there somewhere to see your build? I was pulling mine via js in an app. Feb 05 21:09:25 I think europe is now on 1.3.5.2 Feb 05 21:09:28 for gsm Feb 05 21:09:31 device info Feb 05 21:09:35 tap the version number Feb 05 21:09:41 ah Feb 05 21:09:49 europe is always ahead by a little bit Feb 05 21:09:51 hmmm Feb 05 21:09:55 mine says 220 Feb 05 21:09:56 too Feb 05 21:09:57 better coffee, hotter girls Feb 05 21:10:05 Also devs who have access may have different builds Feb 05 21:10:09 but through js in an app it says 200.17... Feb 05 21:10:11 I'm thinking in particular of Spain Feb 05 21:10:23 Bing Wallpaper Search lets you view the hottest girls ;) Feb 05 21:10:25 plug Feb 05 21:10:26 customer service is supposed to be calling me 3 minutes ago Feb 05 21:10:45 yes, but I can't have that as my wallpaper or the -real- girls nearby will think poorly of me Feb 05 21:11:04 Thats why you need to buy Bing Image Search Feb 05 21:11:13 so has everywhere received the 1.3.5 update? Feb 05 21:11:27 all countries that is Feb 05 21:11:38 I am not sure Feb 05 21:11:42 I think they have finally Feb 05 21:14:58 build 220 Feb 05 21:29:03 no place in Europe has hotter girls than Texas, that's a fact Feb 05 21:30:23 california? Feb 05 21:30:27 nope Feb 05 21:30:31 not even close Feb 05 21:30:45 TX girls have real boobs Feb 05 21:30:50 and noses Feb 05 21:31:06 and they aren't a bunch of stuck-up twits Feb 05 21:31:27 and they can finish a 36 oz stake in an hour? Feb 05 21:31:32 you got it ;) Feb 05 21:31:33 steak Feb 05 21:32:22 u live in texas sugardave ? Feb 05 21:32:33 deep in the heart Feb 05 21:33:08 thats cool. i've been as far south as amarillo. too scared to go any further south than that.. Feb 05 21:33:24 yeah, if you want to go further in, go to Austin...and stay there Feb 05 21:33:28 I'm still playing with my new phone, but can the Pre have different ringtones for phone and text/IM? Further, different ringtones for different people? Feb 05 21:33:29 i'm a big SRV fan Feb 05 21:33:42 he is awesome...there's a staue of him down at Town Lake Feb 05 21:33:58 my wife has a picture of her standing next to it.. pretty cool. Feb 05 21:34:44 customer service at palm actually called me back.. fantastic Feb 05 21:34:51 i've the the big cross, the cadillac monuments and stuff though.. Feb 05 21:35:03 just so you know, don't try to download an update to your own app if you didn't pay for it in the first place Feb 05 21:35:03 Boomer: text/IM no, ringtones yes Feb 05 21:35:10 it will fail Feb 05 21:35:13 oh yeah, I've never been out there...we always blow through Amarillo on our way to Colorado Feb 05 21:35:24 mikemcelligott: yep Feb 05 21:35:46 however, why my users ALSO can't download the update is still a mystery that has cost me 2 stars Feb 05 21:36:09 doesn't make any sense... no code in the app is actually run until you launch it, right? Feb 05 21:36:17 my app is still unreviewed as yet Feb 05 21:36:21 mikemcelligott: I was afflicted with something similar after the 1.3.5 update Feb 05 21:36:24 i'm wondering why Feb 05 21:36:24 took mine about a week and a half Feb 05 21:36:38 I went from a 4.7 to a 3... Feb 05 21:36:46 you know cyrket got me thinking...he's got a section for 'software libraries' but there's not Palm catalog section for it...you think there's any market for releasing simple tools for devs? Feb 05 21:36:50 seems to be faster after initial approval. and paid apps seem to be reviewed faster too. Feb 05 21:36:55 people couldn't download my app for 3 weeks!! Feb 05 21:37:03 That's exactly what's happened to me natenrb9. Feb 05 21:37:12 except they can download it -new-.. just not update Feb 05 21:37:16 I was super pissed Feb 05 21:37:26 people are changing their 5 star ratings to 0 stars.. extremely frustrating Feb 05 21:37:26 mine couldn't download it new Feb 05 21:37:30 wow Feb 05 21:37:34 so they would buy it, and then couldn't download it Feb 05 21:37:36 that wasn't related to preware? Feb 05 21:37:39 for 3 friggin weeks Feb 05 21:37:45 wow.. that totally sucks.. $$ lost Feb 05 21:37:53 yep Feb 05 21:37:55 I'm finding it hard to get straight answers out of Palm Feb 05 21:38:01 no palm app catalog Feb 05 21:38:03 they tell me to contact my users Feb 05 21:38:07 which of course I can't do Feb 05 21:38:11 exactly Feb 05 21:38:17 until they contact you Feb 05 21:38:33 I'm thinking about requiring users to enter their email address when they first launch the app Feb 05 21:38:36 mikemcelligott: why in the &^%$ would they say that? seems like a training issue to me...there isn't a way for us TO CONTACT OUR USERS Feb 05 21:38:57 sugardave, no kidding Feb 05 21:39:09 kind of pissed me off - everything they were saying were things they themselves don't allow Feb 05 21:39:37 We should collectively write an app that allows developers to get in touch with a person by NDUID Feb 05 21:39:54 and strongly recommend to our users that they install it Feb 05 21:40:12 mikemcelligott: I'm pondering writing my own 'messaging service' for my apps...some kind of wall-style broadcast or something Feb 05 21:40:34 kind of ridiculous to have to add it to all of our apps when it should be available Feb 05 21:41:04 mikemcelligott: by nduid is a great idea...except how are you going to know which nduid is the problem users? Feb 05 21:41:19 I don't.. it would have to be a sparingly-used open system Feb 05 21:41:24 s/is/are Feb 05 21:41:29 ah Feb 05 21:41:30 yeah Feb 05 21:41:32 not happening Feb 05 21:42:11 well, that's weird. moving an object from above a div to below a div makes it disappear completely. Feb 05 21:42:21 bbiab Feb 05 21:42:54 oh wait, that was just malformed data Feb 05 21:42:55 aweesooomeee Feb 05 21:47:43 sugardave: that would be way nice, good way to quickly get info to users Feb 05 22:11:18 what the crapppp, why did they change facebook againn? Feb 05 22:28:13 Does ImageViewCrop work? Feb 05 22:51:14 Tibfib: what changed? Feb 05 22:52:11 pandora: the main page... check it out Feb 05 22:52:23 yessss. now all I have to do is figure out what that stupid audio bar is and hide it, and I'm golden! Feb 05 22:52:38 uhmmmm Feb 05 22:53:00 Tibfib: just facebook.com ? Feb 05 22:53:02 looks the same to me Feb 05 22:55:02 Yours will switch eventually Feb 05 22:55:16 id screen shot it, but id have to blur out so much its not wort hit Feb 05 22:55:19 worth it* Feb 05 22:55:40 heh Feb 05 22:55:45 what's the main difference? Feb 05 22:56:24 the notifications changed Feb 05 22:56:43 they are now divided up Feb 05 22:56:49 and the bottom bar changed Feb 05 22:56:54 no longer app shortcuts on left Feb 05 22:57:16 huh Feb 05 22:57:19 i'm curious Feb 05 22:58:01 they redesigned it and it has a box around the feeds Feb 05 22:58:05 idk if I like it. Feb 05 22:58:25 until i have an option to "hide all apps" i say it's incomplete Feb 05 22:58:43 i don't need quizzes, game updates, etc etc and all that crap on my feed Feb 05 23:01:23 hello world Feb 05 23:02:38 sugardave: I have ported Myles from eclipse to Komodo Feb 05 23:05:52 I cant believe I just did that... pandora: http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/Tibfib/newfacebook.png Feb 05 23:14:55 Tibfib: lol Feb 05 23:15:24 Tibfib: and ya.. wow that is different Feb 05 23:27:39 anyone know if ImageViewCrop works ? Feb 06 00:21:46 weird. JSLint gives a "Stopping, unable to continue" error on my code. Feb 06 00:26:40 hey all Feb 06 00:27:18 hello haeffb & codeslaw Feb 06 00:27:39 how goes it Feb 06 00:28:12 LoneStar99: everytime i read your name in my head, i read it in the voice of Dark Helmet Feb 06 00:28:25 lol Feb 06 00:28:40 wut up? Feb 06 00:29:08 forgot about spaceballs, great movie Feb 06 00:31:31 indeed Feb 06 00:31:56 anyone know if it's possible to read ALL reviews for your app, not just the ones in the latest 20 in the catalog? Feb 06 00:33:40 have messed with the feeds and comments do not seem to appear in feed so not sure Feb 06 00:35:07 lames Feb 06 00:49:47 codeslaw: http://www.cyrket.com/m/palm/ Feb 06 00:50:13 codeslaw: they seem to have all the reviews Feb 06 00:50:18 awesome Feb 06 00:50:26 and pricing stats and other cool stuff! Feb 06 00:51:13 Yeah, it's a good site Feb 06 00:52:08 cyrket doesn't update reviews though Feb 06 00:52:27 The first version is the one that will be displayed Feb 06 00:52:40 also, if a review has been deleted, it will still show up on cyrket...jsyk Feb 06 00:52:43 great site though Feb 06 01:03:23 right on Feb 06 01:06:33 I hate reviewers Feb 06 01:06:35 They're idiots Feb 06 01:13:42 Who the heck doesn't know that a postal code is a zip code? Feb 06 01:13:45 Who are these people? Feb 06 01:19:49 idiots Feb 06 01:20:07 Yes...yes they are Feb 06 01:24:29 drinking a dirty martini, in a plastic cup Feb 06 01:24:31 reality9110: those who work in "high IQ" industries lose a bit of touch with reality. Feb 06 01:25:32 haeffb: I work in a high IQ industry...I know what my postal code is. Feb 06 01:25:39 I know it's not a "registration code" Feb 06 01:26:00 i had the same dilema was gonna use postal code instead of zip, thinking of the idiots went with zip Feb 06 01:27:57 reality9110: yes, but you tend to think that all people are like the people you work with. They're not. Feb 06 01:29:13 these folks don't know what postal is, but 99% of them know who's care went off the cliff this evening Feb 06 01:29:27 sorry car Feb 06 01:36:14 thinking about doctoring my phone. Feb 06 01:37:16 haeffb: internals doctor? Feb 06 01:38:28 webDoctor Feb 06 01:38:34 webOSDoctor Feb 06 01:49:03 did anyone had luck with a web app opposed to a app catalog app? Feb 06 01:49:30 I doubt it Feb 06 01:51:46 thats what i thought Feb 06 01:52:10 it looks initially the same http://urloid.com/app2 Feb 06 01:52:37 but does not appear in da app catalog Feb 06 02:07:50 anyway of tracking activity in a scene? Feb 06 02:08:29 want to automatically close a scene if user does nothing for 10 or so seconds Feb 06 02:09:53 LoneStar99: if web app, you have to find another way to promote it other than app catalog. Feb 06 02:11:33 haeffb: but palm still keeps 30% right? Feb 06 02:12:45 alot earlier submitted my app, but thought app catalog was default, well find out after submit and no paypal that the default option is "web" distro Feb 06 02:13:25 put a request to cancel it, have already paid for app catalog inclusion Feb 06 02:30:57 is there an event to know when the command menu has closed? Feb 06 02:32:05 command menu? Feb 06 02:32:24 or app menu? Feb 06 02:35:14 command menu Feb 06 02:35:21 when it's done fading out Feb 06 02:35:57 my command menus don't fade. Feb 06 02:36:15 i meant slide Feb 06 02:36:33 they don't slide, either. Feb 06 02:36:39 not sure what we're talking about. Feb 06 02:37:56 command menu = the one the comes in on the bottom of the screen, round/pill buttons Feb 06 02:37:59 view menu is up top Feb 06 02:38:02 they animate in and out Feb 06 02:38:16 mine only animate in and out on activate/deactivate Feb 06 02:38:20 Ok. Mine are on screen all the time. Feb 06 02:38:33 ah, i close/open them during the scene Feb 06 02:39:14 even so, no idea how to tell when they're gone. Feb 06 02:39:29 sugardave! Feb 06 02:39:43 that was messed up Feb 06 02:39:46 sugardave: do you know if there's an event for when the command menu is off the screen? Feb 06 02:39:59 I do not, sorry Feb 06 02:42:14 what was messed up? Feb 06 02:44:54 apparently I lost connection and reconned as sugardav1, but I was gone so long sugardave timed out...then I couldn't switch nicks because of channel settings here and #webos-watercooler Feb 06 02:46:35 hi all Feb 06 02:46:52 hey JenP Feb 06 02:47:05 hey sugardave Feb 06 02:47:27 JenP Feb 06 02:47:37 sugardave: happens to me sometimes when I go Feb 06 02:47:39 hi haeffb Feb 06 02:47:51 very weird Feb 06 02:48:11 I should have copied the error message...they make it sound like I was doing "very bad things" Feb 06 02:53:09 sugardave: You around? Feb 06 02:54:42 running JSLint on palm code = not a good idea. Feb 06 02:56:28 haeffb yeah leaves a bit to be desired Feb 06 02:57:19 what u up to tonight? Feb 06 02:57:46 you know that code you helped me move over to mojo...it's broke...and i dont know why Feb 06 02:57:53 you? Feb 06 02:58:27 playing with Komodo and JSLint Feb 06 02:58:35 what's broken about it? Feb 06 02:59:12 it's not rounding the pennies right and breaks when i try to get the monthly total Feb 06 02:59:32 i'm still learning when I use "this" or not... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 06 02:59:56 2010