**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 04 02:59:58 2010
Apr 04 03:00:02 <BigBiff> killer
Apr 04 03:00:22 <BigBiff> haeffb, what are you getting paid? i'll double it!
Apr 04 03:00:28 <BigBiff> that's great
Apr 04 03:00:52 <zsoc> Someone once told them they'd pay me what I'm worth. I said I'm making twice that now.
Apr 04 03:17:04 <BigBiff> haeffb: i dont understand the necessity of the row template
Apr 04 03:17:14 <BigBiff> not a requirement for filterlist right?
Apr 04 03:20:06 <BigBiff> u just have more specific stylings defined for the rows in that template i guess
Apr 04 03:28:33 <BigBiff> ahh ic
Apr 04 03:28:37 <BigBiff> nvmd
Apr 04 03:32:26 <VincentLaw> [23:00:33] <zsoc> Someone once told them they'd pay me what I'm worth. I said I'm making twice that now. <-- 0 * 2 = 0 ????
Apr 04 03:32:28 <VincentLaw> I kid :p
Apr 04 03:32:37 <zsoc> nice
Apr 04 03:32:58 <zsoc> at least i'm not "cool"
Apr 04 03:36:24 <zsoc> buttonLabel vs Label in a widget model?
Apr 04 04:08:16 <Roy-Pre101> Any able to add some info about multi-stage apps to webos101.com?
Apr 04 04:12:53 <LoneStar99> Roy-Pre101: i can add a localization tutorial
Apr 04 04:31:18 <ron_frown> hello?
Apr 04 04:31:53 <zsoc> ?
Apr 04 04:37:51 <LoneStar99> ???
Apr 04 04:38:02 <BigBiff> what is this functionality called? where you update innerhtml through, for instance, <div>#{-name}</div>
Apr 04 04:38:14 <ron_frown> how do I get at my controller via events
Apr 04 04:39:01 <BigBiff> like in list template
Apr 04 04:39:01 <ron_frown>  object #<an event> has no method 'DoSomething'
Apr 04 04:39:20 <ron_frown> because I tried to do this.DoSomething() when event triggered
Apr 04 04:43:26 <ron_frown> this is getting redefined all over the place... dont jnow how to fix
Apr 04 04:43:37 <ron_frown> 'this'
Apr 04 04:44:30 <BigBiff> ron_frown: i had the exact same frustrations last night
Apr 04 04:44:35 <BigBiff> i feel your pain
Apr 04 04:44:58 <ron_frown> fixed?
Apr 04 04:45:42 <BigBiff> well, for one little situation, i just set some global variables
Apr 04 04:45:47 <BigBiff> got rid of this
Apr 04 04:46:24 <BigBiff> otherwise, i spend about 472 hours trial and erring my objects with and without this in various shapes or forms
Apr 04 04:47:00 <BigBiff> i've read every web article on 'this', and i still dont fully get 'this'
Apr 04 04:47:21 <BigBiff> but im still learning, and one day i will figure 'this' out
Apr 04 04:47:37 <BigBiff> until then, i will do everything possible to use 'this' as little as possible
Apr 04 04:48:49 <ron_frown> I think that shit is new in latest beta
Apr 04 04:49:17 <geist> also that
Apr 04 04:49:37 <BigBiff> i actually kind of understand that
Apr 04 04:50:06 <BigBiff> yet will never use it in my little app
Apr 04 04:50:08 <BigBiff> heh
Apr 04 04:53:04 <bpadalino> hrm ..
Apr 04 04:53:09 <BigBiff> i did find a little workaround for 'this' - the call() and apply() method
Apr 04 04:53:12 <BigBiff> me likey
Apr 04 04:53:17 <bpadalino> is 'this' different in javascript than most other languages ?
Apr 04 04:53:36 <BigBiff> i dunno
Apr 04 04:53:41 <BigBiff> dont think so
Apr 04 04:53:57 <bpadalino> so you're just not very familiar with object-oriented programming ?
Apr 04 04:54:05 <BigBiff> <---expert in all programming languages
Apr 04 04:54:09 <BigBiff> jk
Apr 04 04:54:21 <bpadalino> i don't know very many languages
Apr 04 04:54:32 <zinge> javascript 'this' seems to be different from most OO 'this's
Apr 04 04:54:34 <bpadalino> it took me a long time to actually kind of somewhat pick up oop
Apr 04 04:54:39 <BigBiff> i began about 4 weeks ago
Apr 04 04:54:47 <bpadalino> ah, welcome aboard
Apr 04 04:54:51 <zinge> But I haven't actually figured out how to use 'this' correctly in javascript, so I may just not be understanding it
Apr 04 04:54:57 <zinge> Hi, btw
Apr 04 04:55:00 <bpadalino> zinge, interesting
Apr 04 04:55:25 <bpadalino> http://www.quirksmode.org/js/this.html - i'll try reading this to get caught up
Apr 04 04:56:12 <BigBiff> i've read that about 9 times
Apr 04 04:56:39 <bpadalino> neat
Apr 04 04:56:44 <BigBiff> then i look at my script, and have no idea what 'this' refers to
Apr 04 04:56:47 <BigBiff> hehe
Apr 04 04:57:15 <BigBiff> i guess it'll take me awhile longer to really get it
Apr 04 04:57:18 <tshile> this just points to the thing that owns what you're doing.'
Apr 04 04:57:24 <BigBiff> until then...
Apr 04 04:57:28 <zinge> Probably something I should read as well, thanks bpadalino
Apr 04 04:57:28 <tshile> if its a function, inside a class, then it points to that class
Apr 04 04:57:36 <bpadalino> thank google!
Apr 04 04:57:44 <bpadalino> indexers of the intertubes
Apr 04 04:57:45 <tshile> if its inline js then it points ot the window (like the example in the link pasted above)
Apr 04 04:58:24 <BigBiff> where i get messed up is in using 'this' in a function in a function
Apr 04 04:58:31 <ron_frown> well you know I actually totally agree the context of the event shouldnt have direct knowlege of the calling class, but it wouldnt seem I could necessarily include it
Apr 04 04:58:52 <ron_frown> how do you push a view from a tap event now
Apr 04 04:59:04 <tshile> ok, this in a function in a function. what is the 'container' for those functions?/
Apr 04 04:59:12 <tshile> thats what this is pointing to...
Apr 04 04:59:21 <zinge> Anybody use the webview widget at all? I have a couple things I'm trying to get working that I could use some help with...
Apr 04 04:59:24 <tshile> see the second example?
Apr 04 04:59:37 <tshile> dosomething calls dosomething which uses this.
Apr 04 04:59:54 <tshile> but it points ot the element that holes the original function...
Apr 04 05:00:38 <ron_frown> ok so whats the workaround
Apr 04 05:00:43 <ron_frown> It doesnt need to call the function
Apr 04 05:00:58 <tshile> so if you have a div... which on an event runs function1(), which calls function2(), which calls function3(), and in function 3 uses 'this', you're refering to the div... because its the 'container'. functions aren't containers.
Apr 04 05:00:59 <ron_frown> but I dont know how to get to the stagecontroller to push a view
Apr 04 05:01:08 <ron_frown> I get that
Apr 04 05:01:11 <tshile> this, is used to access properties. functions don't have properties. (among other things)
Apr 04 05:01:24 <ron_frown> it only calls functions because I was troubleshooting
Apr 04 05:01:34 <ron_frown> all I want to do is push a view from a button tap
Apr 04 05:01:37 <BigBiff> interesting
Apr 04 05:02:02 <tshile> oh, i was talking to bigbiff. honestly, i'm just starting out with webos... i was just explaining 'this' in terms of JS *shrug*
Apr 04 05:02:10 <ron_frown> oh
Apr 04 05:02:13 <tshile> sorry :(
Apr 04 05:02:22 <Roy-Pre101> LoneStar99: That'd be great (re: localization).  I just got my app done by swisstomcat and haven't written up my experiences yet.
Apr 04 05:02:23 <ron_frown> yeah I get it
Apr 04 05:02:33 <ron_frown> this was just something that implemented in recent build
Apr 04 05:02:37 <ron_frown> things used to work the other way
Apr 04 05:02:53 <tshile> where it refered to its immediate 'parent' if you will?
Apr 04 05:03:09 <BigBiff> ron: this.controller.stageController.pushScene("name of scene html")
Apr 04 05:03:18 <ron_frown> I know dude
Apr 04 05:03:22 <BigBiff> hehe
Apr 04 05:03:25 <ron_frown> but withing the context of the button tap, this is the event
Apr 04 05:03:28 <ron_frown> so there is no controller =)
Apr 04 05:03:54 <BigBiff> i just used the extent of my knowledge
Apr 04 05:04:00 <tshile> wait
Apr 04 05:04:09 <tshile> you want a button tap to get rid of your current view and call a new view?
Apr 04 05:04:11 <tshile> basically?
Apr 04 05:04:12 <ron_frown> yeah... I was just trying to explain that this is exactly my problem
Apr 04 05:04:19 <ron_frown> uhh yes
Apr 04 05:04:35 <ron_frown> tap button, it does stageController.pushScene('asdasd')
Apr 04 05:07:24 <BigBiff> so, tshile, 'this' is basically shorthand right?
Apr 04 05:07:32 <tshile> right
Apr 04 05:07:40 <ron_frown> not really
Apr 04 05:07:40 <tshile> its a way to go 'up a level' if you will
Apr 04 05:07:42 <tshile> typically
Apr 04 05:07:53 <ron_frown> this is a reference to this
Apr 04 05:08:02 <ron_frown> in another method, this refers to the class
Apr 04 05:08:22 <BigBiff> ya, i am ignorant to the 'class'
Apr 04 05:08:32 <BigBiff> class create, etc
Apr 04 05:08:39 <ron_frown> and by class I mean instance of the class
Apr 04 05:09:00 <BigBiff> that stems from other languages? or is that common in js
Apr 04 05:09:54 <tshile> it stems from object oriented programming...
Apr 04 05:10:33 <bpadalino> i keep running into this same page: http://www.crockford.com/javascript/javascript.html
Apr 04 05:10:41 <bpadalino> it shows some interesting insights into js as a language
Apr 04 05:10:50 <bpadalino> the bottom Object-Oriented stuff is interesting too
Apr 04 05:13:29 <BigBiff> hehe
Apr 04 05:13:49 <BigBiff> of course, 2001 - i guess advancements have been made?
Apr 04 05:14:31 <BigBiff> but yes - constructors in place of class?
Apr 04 05:16:23 <bpadalino> i suppose http://javascript.crockford.com/ is a better link .. but he is a pretty smart guy
Apr 04 05:16:27 <BigBiff> back to more specific - what is the name of this? -- <div>#{-name}</div>
Apr 04 05:16:57 <BigBiff> dynamic innerhtml update thingy
Apr 04 05:16:58 <Roy-Pre101> template?
Apr 04 05:17:19 <BigBiff> is that all it's for? such as list templates?
Apr 04 05:18:03 <BigBiff> is that how i would update dynamically a page header?
Apr 04 05:18:25 <BigBiff> or just use the old .update
Apr 04 05:18:50 <Roy-Pre101> It's only used with templates, but you can use templating for a lot of things.
Apr 04 05:19:10 <BigBiff> just dont know how to call it from within the js
Apr 04 05:19:17 <BigBiff> i'll stick with what i know
Apr 04 05:19:20 <BigBiff> heh
Apr 04 05:19:29 <Roy-Pre101> If you want to use templates there are some docs at the PAlm site.
Apr 04 05:19:48 <BigBiff> ya, my lists work great, just didnt know about using it for other elements
Apr 04 05:19:52 <Roy-Pre101> for simple things like updating divs I'd stick with innerHTML also
Apr 04 05:20:03 <Roy-Pre101> For more complex stuff the templating is nice.
Apr 04 05:20:39 <BigBiff> is templating common in all html/js development? or specific to webos
Apr 04 05:22:27 <LoneStar99> anyone know of any shape recognition code?
Apr 04 05:22:41 <Roy-Pre101> Templates are a common solution to this problem.  The implementation we have on webOS is specific to webOS.
Apr 04 05:22:54 <Roy-Pre101> LoneStar99: Nope.
Apr 04 05:23:19 <LoneStar99> been searching the web but to no avail
Apr 04 05:26:04 <Roy-Pre101> What are you trying to do exactly?
Apr 04 05:26:39 <ron_frown> I think the calls changed
Apr 04 05:26:44 <ron_frown> no big deal I got it taken care of
Apr 04 05:26:56 <ron_frown> tamplate stuff is built into prototype
Apr 04 05:27:51 <Roy-Pre101> ah, it's prototype's template stuff?
Apr 04 05:27:55 <BigBiff> in some of the older sdk samples, class create was everywhere
Apr 04 05:28:00 <Roy-Pre101> Well, then ignore what I said.
Apr 04 05:28:20 <Roy-Pre101> If it's built in to prototype then docs are on their site.
Apr 04 05:28:28 <BigBiff> i guess that's just built in now?
Apr 04 05:28:38 <BigBiff> i'll check that out ron
Apr 04 05:28:47 <ron_frown> I think there is a fair amont implemented from prototype
Apr 04 05:28:49 <ron_frown> and yes
Apr 04 05:28:53 <ron_frown> there ist templating built in
Apr 04 05:28:56 <BigBiff> cool
Apr 04 05:28:57 <ron_frown> especially in list controls
Apr 04 05:29:30 <LoneStar99> Roy-Pre101: upload an image and it code analyzes and determines closest shape.
Apr 04 05:30:04 <LoneStar99> baseball = circle box = square etc...
Apr 04 05:30:51 <Roy-Pre101> Mmm
Apr 04 05:32:00 <Roy-Pre101> Here you go:  http://doi.ieeecs.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/34.954605  :)
Apr 04 05:32:42 <zinge> Question: any idea why methods called by webview widget events (webViewLoadProgress, webViewLoadStopped) would be running in some sort of context that doesn't allow them to recognize this.controller?
Apr 04 05:33:04 <ron_frown> hahaha
Apr 04 05:33:06 <ron_frown> yes
Apr 04 05:33:14 <ron_frown> in ana event
Apr 04 05:33:20 <ron_frown> THIS refers to the event itself
Apr 04 05:34:00 <LoneStar99> Roy-Pre101: thanks, did not think of using "2d"
Apr 04 05:34:09 <zinge> doh... just realized since i was copy/pasting code from the webview widget docs, I was not using "bind"
Apr 04 05:34:26 <ron_frown> how are you supposed to use bind in this context?
Apr 04 05:34:39 <ron_frown> you do listen(....).bind(this)?
Apr 04 05:35:35 <zinge> gimme a sec to make sure I'm not crazy and run the change I just made...
Apr 04 05:36:01 <zinge> yup, that fixed it. Thanks ron_frown! Saved me hours of stupidity
Apr 04 05:36:17 <zinge> this.handleLoaded = this.handleLoaded.bindAsEventListener(this);
Apr 04 05:36:44 <zinge> And voila, it works correctly
Apr 04 05:44:32 <ron_frown> I think I get why my original problem is o I've got a couple fixes to solve that problem
Apr 04 05:44:52 <ron_frown> having global methods I can call, can I just add them to stage-assistant.js?
Apr 04 05:45:36 <ron_frown> or is there another way to register some global methods
Apr 04 05:46:08 <zinge> Not sure... I don't use stage assistant anymore, since I've been using app-assistant. But for global stuff, I've just been making a seperate js file, and loading an instance of it in app assistant
Apr 04 05:46:34 <zinge> so I add a utilities folder along with assistants and views
Apr 04 05:46:44 <zinge> create a js file, add it to sources.json
Apr 04 05:47:11 <zinge> and create a new instance of it in my app-assistant (or stage assistant in your case, if you're only using one stage)
Apr 04 05:47:21 <zinge> I'm not sure if its the most efficient way to go, but it works.
Apr 04 05:47:57 <zinge> Does that help you any?
Apr 04 05:48:28 <ron_frown> hmm
Apr 04 05:49:16 <ron_frown> I dont know
Apr 04 05:49:17 <ron_frown> haha
Apr 04 05:49:39 <zinge> lol. check out brightness unlinked if you want a working example of what I'm talking about
Apr 04 05:50:05 <zinge> Commons.js has methods that I can call from both the card and dashboard stage
Apr 04 05:50:34 <ron_frown> js is tough
Apr 04 05:50:54 <ron_frown> so open its hard to quite get it
Apr 04 05:51:10 <ron_frown> can I just add it as a method on stageassistant
Apr 04 05:51:19 <ron_frown> and call it like StageAssistant.DoSomething()
Apr 04 05:51:34 <zinge> Most likely; sounds like it would work.
Apr 04 05:51:46 <zinge> As long as all of the scenes you call it from are on the same stage
Apr 04 05:51:51 <ron_frown> I'll fiddle with it a bit
Apr 04 05:51:56 <ron_frown> yes
Apr 04 05:52:10 <zinge> then it should work
Apr 04 05:57:30 <zinge> Any idea how I can hide/show a bottom fade menu? 'Cause loding a full page scrim and spinner doesn't cover it
Apr 04 06:10:09 <zinge> Anyone know where the list of menu icons is?
Apr 04 06:13:58 <zinge> Okay, new question: the webview widget starts off with a white background when it begins to load a page. Any idea how to change the initial color? I'm already using palm-dark, and the background of the html that eventually loads in the widget is black. But when it first opens, before it loads the page, its a large white screen...
Apr 04 06:22:01 <zinge> Anybody here?
Apr 04 06:22:11 <halfhalo_T400> no
Apr 04 06:22:19 <zinge> Oh, ok then :-)
Apr 04 06:24:08 <JayCanuck> honestly not sure zinge
Apr 04 06:24:47 <zinge> Okeydoke. Just wondering if anyone is around.. I have plenty of other questions :-)
Apr 04 06:24:47 <JayCanuck> i believe that since webOS 1.4, webview widgets are plugin-based
Apr 04 06:24:53 <zinge> Really...
Apr 04 06:25:20 <JayCanuck> you could use css to hide it and listen for the loaded event, then show it
Apr 04 06:25:50 <zinge> I'm already scrim/spinnering over it, so its not that bad. The gray scrim helps.
Apr 04 06:26:14 <JayCanuck> yea, I need to do similar with my WoW.com app
Apr 04 06:26:28 <zinge> Although I like that idea. I may hide it till its at about 5% or 10%, because by that time it will have loaded the black background
Apr 04 06:26:30 <JayCanuck> I'm thinking of have a placeholder image
Apr 04 06:26:39 <JayCanuck> *having
Apr 04 06:26:50 <zinge> I like being able to see the page load through the scrim.
Apr 04 06:27:53 <zinge> So, next question: I'm trying to use a commandMenu button to call reloadPage for the widget, but I think the commandMenu is in the wrong context and this.controller.get can't see the widget
Apr 04 06:28:19 <zinge> I was having the same problem with my listeners until I realized I wasn't binding them, but I'm not sure how to do that for the commandMenu
Apr 04 06:35:59 <zinge> Hmm... if I change the webview widget to display:none, it doesn't load
Apr 04 06:36:20 <zinge> And it doesn't ever trigger the loadingProgress and loadingStopped events
Apr 04 06:39:46 <zinge> But visibility:hidden works
Apr 04 06:39:52 <zinge> good...
Apr 04 06:40:44 <zinge> Ummm... how to I change the css on a div from within the scene assistant?
Apr 04 06:41:53 <zinge> So I can change visibility:hidden to visible when the widget loads?
Apr 04 06:48:02 <zinge> Nevermind, figured it out. (this.controller.get('webview').style.visibility
Apr 04 06:51:27 <zinge> Still can't get the reloadPage method working from the commandMenu though.
Apr 04 06:51:46 <zinge> Context is wrong; from within commandMenu, the webview widget is undefined...
Apr 04 07:15:07 <JayCanuck> hi dkirker
Apr 04 07:15:15 <dkirker> hi JayCanuck
Apr 04 07:15:40 <JayCanuck> ya try internalz ;)
Apr 04 07:15:41 <Roy-Pre101> JayCanuck: Howdy
Apr 04 07:15:54 <JayCanuck> hi roy
Apr 04 07:16:08 <dkirker> grrrr.... this PDK Mojo stuff is giving me a headache...
Apr 04 07:16:25 <Roy-Pre101> dkirker: Trying to get them to communicate or something else?
Apr 04 07:16:36 <dkirker> yeah
Apr 04 07:16:36 <Roy-Pre101> Has anyone gotten a working example of them talking?
Apr 04 07:16:43 <dkirker> not me...
Apr 04 07:16:49 <JayCanuck> lol
Apr 04 07:16:54 <JayCanuck> the  cake is a lie
Apr 04 07:16:59 <dkirker> it is...
Apr 04 07:17:10 <Roy-Pre101> but it's frosted so nicely...
Apr 04 07:18:08 <dkirker> I get the feeling that I am supposed to draw something, aren't I?
Apr 04 07:18:34 <dkirker> I really want to make this into an official app, not a homebrew one...
Apr 04 07:20:12 <JayCanuck> :p
Apr 04 07:20:30 <JayCanuck> don't we all ;)
Apr 04 07:29:35 <zinge> I'm out... g'nite!
Apr 04 07:30:09 <dkirker> I swear, this is driving me crazy...
Apr 04 07:58:41 <benluo> hi
Apr 04 07:59:52 <benluo> i just want to input a word in a dialog, is there a very simple dialog in mojo?
Apr 04 08:01:20 <dkirker> SWEET! I managed to figure out my problem AND crash LunaSysMgr...
Apr 04 09:39:15 <Roy-Pre101> Adora|1x: hola.
Apr 04 09:39:58 <Roy-Pre101> Bah, I need screenshots of my translated apps and was hoping to do it on the phone.  I forgot you can't change the language on the Sprint phones to anything but English and Spanish.
Apr 04 09:41:44 <dkirker> Adora|1x: howdy!
Apr 04 09:50:07 * rwhitby is adding Saved Package List support to Preware ...
Apr 04 09:54:01 * dkirker finally got Mojo to talk to his PDK plugin :)
Apr 04 09:57:06 <hucksy> Roy-Pre101: maybe i can help
Apr 04 09:57:34 <Roy-Pre101> dkirker: You did?
Apr 04 09:57:54 <Roy-Pre101> hooray!  Can you post the sample code up to webos101.com?
Apr 04 09:58:04 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: How goes?
Apr 04 09:58:18 <Roy-Pre101> hucksy: I'm just going to use the emulator, I think.
Apr 04 09:59:55 <hucksy> ah right, the emulator has all languages
Apr 04 09:59:56 <dkirker> Roy-Pre101: I can probably write a sample
Apr 04 10:00:33 <dkirker> It's really straight-forward
Apr 04 10:00:42 <Roy-Pre101> That'd be excellent. A lot of people have had trouble with it for some reason.
Apr 04 10:01:06 <dkirker> I was just being dumb and registering the handle under one name and calling it through another
Apr 04 10:01:32 <dkirker> There is also the chance that a lot of people are trying to upload the MacOS or Windows binary and not the ARM one.
Apr 04 10:01:44 <dkirker> There is no way to tell unless you novaterm in and try to run it.
Apr 04 10:01:58 <dkirker> but I will work on a demo over the next week
Apr 04 10:04:42 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: going well.  will soon be able to restore homebrew apps and patches automatically after a webOS Doctor
Apr 04 10:05:31 <Roy-Pre101> Good, good.
Apr 04 10:05:45 <Roy-Pre101> Now, if you can get Preware to stop hanging up on my phone every other time I launch it...
Apr 04 10:06:28 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: as soon as you give me the /var/log/messages and dbus-util --capture ipkgservice output that spans the event ...
Apr 04 10:06:58 <Roy-Pre101> Don't think there was anything interesting in the last one I sent you.
Apr 04 10:11:30 <rwhitby> not a lot I can do unless it's reproducible and shows something in the logs.
Apr 04 10:11:52 <dkirker> morning MetaView
Apr 04 10:12:07 <Roy-Pre101> Was pondering if it might not be related to the garbage collection issue discussed here:  http://www.incaseofstairs.com/2010/04/garbage-collection-gotchas-in-webos/
Apr 04 10:18:42 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: we already fixed all of those going from 1.3.5 to 1.4
Apr 04 10:20:14 <rwhitby> (that was exactly the cause of the Preware panic just before 1.4.0 was released)
Apr 04 11:13:47 <jettero> "will soon be able to restore homebrew apps and patches automatically after a webOS Doctor" <=--- moan
Apr 04 11:23:35 <jettero> I seem to have to doctor for each os update, so I'm pretty excited about tools to make that go faster
Apr 04 11:31:01 <rwhitby> jettero: excellent, you can alpha test it for me
Apr 04 11:53:28 <jettero> rwhitby: I honestly hope I can't. :)
Apr 04 12:46:09 <swisstomcat> heya
Apr 04 12:47:20 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2357685
Apr 04 12:47:26 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2357685
Apr 04 12:49:26 <swisstomcat> oh, cool
Apr 04 12:52:12 <swisstomcat> this is great if you have to doctor your device often
Apr 04 12:56:46 <swisstomcat> what's the word on paid apps outside of the official countries? i have a o2 gsm pre which is set to german/germany but i don't see any paid apps .. only free ones
Apr 04 13:14:35 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: seems that the "country of first activation" theory is being backed up be experimental results.
Apr 04 13:15:06 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: country by language selection or otherwise?
Apr 04 13:15:36 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: country by activation - I would assume by MCC selection or something
Apr 04 13:16:01 <swisstomcat> that would make sense
Apr 04 13:16:07 <rwhitby> I no longer believe the language setting, or the country specified in the Palm profile, have anything to do with it.
Apr 04 13:16:11 <swisstomcat> only question would be: can you reset it
Apr 04 13:16:33 <rwhitby> It seems that each hardware device has a database record at Palm which never gets reset, and which is passed from profile to profile.
Apr 04 13:16:39 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: was your device activated in germany?
Apr 04 13:16:53 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: my secondary device was first tested in Germany, yes.
Apr 04 13:17:03 <rwhitby> (before it was shipped to me)
Apr 04 13:17:31 <swisstomcat> need to travel to germany with my developer device (if i ever get one)
Apr 04 13:17:44 <rwhitby> my primary GSM device came from Palm in the US (they took pity on my when the shipment from Germany was delayed for *3* months by DHL)
Apr 04 13:18:06 <rwhitby> I expect that one was first activated in the US by them.
Apr 04 13:18:47 <rwhitby> and my Sprint device was of course activated first in the US, and then de-listed by Sprint.
Apr 04 13:19:02 <swisstomcat> yeah
Apr 04 13:19:10 <rwhitby> (it had a clean ESN, but I assume Sprint de-lists them)
Apr 04 13:19:23 <swisstomcat> it would be easier for me to get a sprint device and use my sister's cc .. since she lives in the us
Apr 04 13:20:15 <rwhitby> that's how I currently buy apps, using the Sprint device and a www.simon.com giftaccount
Apr 04 13:20:27 <swisstomcat> i might go that route too
Apr 04 13:20:40 <rwhitby> I'm looking for an equivalent debit card facility in europe that I can top-up automatically from PayPal
Apr 04 13:22:04 <rwhitby> It's a pity we're ethical - it'd be so much easier just to use the various warez sites than to go through all this hassle to buy apps.
Apr 04 13:22:27 <swisstomcat> yeah, pirates have it easier .. like usual :(
Apr 04 13:23:01 <haeffb> ListSelector question: Is it possible to listen for taps on the subMenu that pops up rather than on the listSelector itself?
Apr 04 13:25:07 <haeffb> aha. Never mind. Just looked at how Palm handled the issue in Tasks app.
Apr 04 13:25:19 <haeffb> (answer: they cheated)
Apr 04 13:50:48 <rwhitby> Bmyers: did you make any progress on the Save/Restore app sending a timestamp down to the service?
Apr 04 13:52:38 <Bmyers> rwhitby: not as yet. i've been trying to debug another app and found that my komoedit plugin was out of date and doing weird stuff. spent the day chasing my tail
Apr 04 13:52:45 <Bmyers> rwhitby: still intend to though
Apr 04 13:52:56 <Bmyers> but would be tonight
Apr 04 13:54:27 <rwhitby> Bmyers: no worries, I didn't get any further on it either - I got distracted by implementing the Holy Grail of Homebrew
Apr 04 13:54:39 <Bmyers> HGoH?
Apr 04 13:54:58 <Bmyers> rwhitby: making Palm stock un-tank?
Apr 04 13:55:08 <rwhitby> Bmyers: HGoH: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2357685
Apr 04 13:56:22 <benluo> i just want to a dialog with a text field. Is there a dialog can be called like alterDialog?
Apr 04 13:56:54 <swisstomcat> you probably want a custom dialog, benluo
Apr 04 13:57:51 <swisstomcat> showDialog()
Apr 04 13:58:25 <benluo> OK. I just want to find a *simple* way. but i think there is not *simple* way
Apr 04 13:59:58 <Bmyers> rwhitby: that would be HGoH:
Apr 04 14:00:45 <haeffb> benluo: a text input field? that would require showDialog().
Apr 04 14:00:55 <benluo> yes.
Apr 04 14:01:08 <benluo> OK
Apr 04 14:01:20 <tshile> rwhitby, nice job, and thanks :)
Apr 04 14:01:23 <haeffb> this might help: http://www.webos101.com/Dialogs
Apr 04 14:01:47 <benluo> because i think a dialog with a text input field is very simple in javascript
Apr 04 14:02:23 <benluo> i remember there is a dialog in javascript, not in webOS. I don't know if it can be used in webOS
Apr 04 14:23:33 <haeffb> zsoc!!!
Apr 04 14:23:41 <zsoc> haeffb: lol hello there buddy :)
Apr 04 14:23:47 <haeffb> (man, I will never get tired of this!!!!)
Apr 04 14:23:57 <haeffb> (or, will I?)
Apr 04 14:26:26 <zsoc> i'm unsure about how i feel lol
Apr 04 14:27:15 <Bmyers> haeffb: i've been here all morning and u didnt say hello to me?
Apr 04 14:27:32 <Bmyers> haeffb: must have been cause i was picking on scully huh?
Apr 04 14:28:42 <haeffb> Bmyers!!!
Apr 04 14:28:51 <Bmyers> haeffb!!!
Apr 04 14:28:58 <haeffb> I'm sending a new beta of Done!
Apr 04 14:29:01 <Bmyers> happy easter!!
Apr 04 14:29:13 <haeffb> you too.
Apr 04 14:29:31 <Bmyers> it's a little island with big heads on it but what the heck. it's a holiday.
Apr 04 14:29:35 <haeffb> happy easter to everyone for whom it's still Easter.
Apr 04 14:29:55 * haeffb not sure what time or day it is in rwhitby's world.
Apr 04 14:30:49 <haeffb> swisstomcat: you're getting a beta as well.
Apr 04 14:31:02 <zsoc> haeffb: why is easter celebrated again? Because we get the day off? It's sunday anyway.
Apr 04 14:31:32 <haeffb> bunnies!
Apr 04 14:31:51 <zsoc> the roman symbol of fertility?
Apr 04 14:32:08 <zsoc>  yeah I guess that's ok. just a little pagan for my taste.
Apr 04 14:32:09 <haeffb> egg-laying bunnies!
Apr 04 14:32:32 <Bmyers> just another paegan holiday
Apr 04 14:33:31 <zsoc> I guess we can all thank.. i don't know, who came up with all this crap?
Apr 04 14:33:33 <zsoc> Constantine?
Apr 04 14:33:39 <haeffb> anybody else want a copy - I'm just about to hit send... ?
Apr 04 14:33:50 <Bmyers> halmark
Apr 04 14:34:21 <haeffb> ok, too late, it's gone.
Apr 04 14:34:25 * haeffb going mobile. laters.
Apr 04 14:34:41 <Bmyers> l8r
Apr 04 14:40:04 <swisstomcat> hallo noaXess
Apr 04 14:40:13 <noaXess> salo.. soso.. immer am schaffen..
Apr 04 14:40:48 <swisstomcat> haeffb: it's 00:10 in adelaide (where rod is at) .. use whendle as your world-timer
Apr 04 14:41:02 <swisstomcat> noaXess: nur ein bisschen
Apr 04 14:41:14 <noaXess> tztztz.. so.. und wg.. bbl.. bye..
Apr 04 14:41:46 <zsoc> ello ello
Apr 04 14:42:11 <swisstomcat> please test the new beta of my app: animalmemory (http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.inorbit.animalmemory.beta)
Apr 04 14:46:32 <swisstomcat> a good read: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2970/palm-webos-pre-and-pixi-where-are-we-now-
Apr 04 14:51:37 <zsoc> is it bad form to shove CSS in the div's instead of the style folder?
Apr 04 14:51:40 <zsoc> i'm just lazy i guess
Apr 04 14:52:34 <swisstomcat> not bad
Apr 04 14:52:36 <haeffb_pre> bmyers: did you get your database guy fixed?
Apr 04 14:52:39 <swisstomcat> but not nice :)
Apr 04 14:57:55 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: Very nice
Apr 04 15:21:44 <ron_frown> anyone use ares to design scenes?
Apr 04 15:21:57 <ron_frown> if so, is there a way to view the actual chrome.js source on the site
Apr 04 15:27:10 <Bmyers> haeffb_pre: should be working
Apr 04 15:27:44 <haeffb_pre> talking bout the guy who lost his data...
Apr 04 15:27:56 <Bmyers> o, no.
Apr 04 15:28:07 <Bmyers> verizon told him to do a complete wipe
Apr 04 15:28:19 <Bmyers> but didnt tell him he would loose all his app data
Apr 04 15:28:31 <Bmyers> i felt sorry for him but there was nothing i could do
Apr 04 15:28:59 <Bmyers> he knew it. didnt blame me for it. luckly
Apr 04 15:30:22 <Bmyers> haeffb_pre he thought I could do some magic but thats Lonestars thing, not mine.
Apr 04 15:31:15 <haeffb_pre> right.
Apr 04 15:32:10 <haeffb_pre> i've been getting issues wit DB tables not created on new Verizon phones
Apr 04 15:32:26 <Bmyers> whats up with that? more than 1 person?
Apr 04 15:32:36 <haeffb_pre> problem disappears when they update to 1.4.x
Apr 04 15:32:44 <haeffb_pre> two so far
Apr 04 15:32:50 <Bmyers> async thing?
Apr 04 15:33:13 <haeffb_pre> no, it just doenst create tables.
Apr 04 15:33:17 <haeffb_pre> I dunno
Apr 04 15:33:51 <Bmyers> well b4 u call it done, check the master table
Apr 04 15:34:36 <haeffb_pre> not even a master table
Apr 04 15:34:51 <haeffb_pre> think it's a Palm bug
Apr 04 15:35:31 <Bmyers> no way..
Apr 04 15:35:36 <Bmyers> i dont beleive u
Apr 04 15:35:57 <Bmyers> the Palm SDK and documentation are solid as a rock..
Apr 04 15:36:36 <Bmyers> i mean
Apr 04 15:36:42 <Bmyers> the Palm SDK and documentation are solid as a Iraq..
Apr 04 15:53:11 <haeffb_pre> is Palm ok with using images from built-in apps?
Apr 04 15:54:45 <haeffb_pre> like, for instance, the add a task Command menu icon from Tasks?
Apr 04 15:58:23 <Bmyers> haeffb_pre almost all of them u can use
Apr 04 15:58:31 <Bmyers> except the AOL and Google ones
Apr 04 15:58:49 <Bmyers> theres a readme in the SDK folder of the ones you CANNOT use
Apr 04 15:59:46 <VincentLaw> (typically ones copyrighted by someone other than Palm that Palm got permission to use)
Apr 04 15:59:49 <haeffb_pre> awesome
Apr 04 16:07:01 <sugardave> Hoppy Easter
Apr 04 16:07:57 <Bmyers> yeah, little island with big heads on it.. great holiday..
Apr 04 16:08:20 <sugardave> my daughter's eggs have been un-dyed by the rain
Apr 04 16:08:27 <sugardave> much gnashing of teeth will ensue
Apr 04 16:08:36 <Bmyers> bummer
Apr 04 16:08:52 <sugardave> oh well, the chocolate is inside
Apr 04 16:08:54 <swisstomcat> hoppy easter to you too, sugardave
Apr 04 16:08:56 <Bmyers> is the chocolate ok? thats all she'll really care about
Apr 04 16:09:00 <sugardave> mmmm, chocolate
Apr 04 16:09:07 <swisstomcat> rainy here too
Apr 04 16:09:33 <sugardave> it rains in Switzerland?!  I thought it was sun or snow ;D
Apr 04 16:11:32 <swisstomcat> only in the mountains
Apr 04 16:54:11 <Bmyers> anyone here have a homebrew app they've updated?
Apr 04 16:55:00 <sugardave> on precentral?  a long time ago
Apr 04 16:55:04 <Bmyers> i have one out there i am trying to update
Apr 04 16:55:36 <Bmyers> but now sure if i am supposed to update the old ipkg or go thru the complete set of flaming hoops to submit a new one
Apr 04 16:56:15 <Bmyers> i cant see were you are to update the ipkg
Apr 04 16:56:18 <sugardave> you just upload/update the new one, then set the moderator option to "needs review"
Apr 04 16:56:20 <Bmyers> only where to submit a new one
Apr 04 16:56:33 <Bmyers> were do you update the old one
Apr 04 16:56:41 <sugardave> let me look
Apr 04 16:56:41 <Bmyers> Deiter is a proclaimed CMS guy
Apr 04 16:56:47 <sugardave> Drupal
Apr 04 16:56:48 <Bmyers> so his site is REALLY complicated..
Apr 04 16:56:53 <sugardave> heh
Apr 04 16:58:56 <sugardave> okay, so pull up your exisiting application node and click the 'Edit' tab
Apr 04 16:59:12 <sugardave> then find the 'ipk' section
Apr 04 16:59:33 <sugardave> you should see 'Replace' under that....upload with that button
Apr 04 16:59:57 <Bmyers> um sugardave. where is my existing node? near my taint somewhere?
Apr 04 17:00:14 <sugardave> ah, search for your app
Apr 04 17:00:30 <sugardave> then drill to it, then you should see an 'edit' tab
Apr 04 17:02:43 <Bmyers> precentral keeps crashing my browsers
Apr 04 17:03:14 <sugardave> Iron
Apr 04 17:03:18 <sugardave> works great
Apr 04 17:05:11 <Bmyers> ok.. so the replace line. upload the new ipkg there
Apr 04 17:06:02 <haeffb_pre> heh. just discovered the brother in law has an unsecured wireless router. I am back online...
Apr 04 17:06:14 <Bmyers> the fool!
Apr 04 17:07:25 <haeffb_pre> he's far enough from anywhere that there's little Sprint signal. but his wifi & DSL work just fine
Apr 04 17:07:49 * haeffb_pre has a full tummy.
Apr 04 17:08:11 <Bmyers> if you see dudes in a canoe playing banjo.. RUN!!!!
Apr 04 17:09:03 <haeffb_pre> why? you think their banjo playin' is better than mine?
Apr 04 17:09:48 <Bmyers> i guess as long and you have more teeth than u do banjo strings, we're ok..
Apr 04 17:12:50 <sugardave> Bmyers: you find the app edit stuff?
Apr 04 17:13:10 <Bmyers> yeah. just writing a disclaimer now for guyrules
Apr 04 17:13:15 <sugardave> cool
Apr 04 17:13:37 <Bmyers> "if you're an english major and misspelled words keep you awake at night DONT DL THIS APP"
Apr 04 17:13:48 <Bmyers> thanks sugardave for the help
Apr 04 17:13:55 <sugardave> np, nice disclaimer
Apr 04 17:14:29 <Bmyers> some of them guyrules come from the internet and are not overly edited first
Apr 04 17:14:38 <Bmyers> so it's a little raw
Apr 04 17:14:57 <sugardave> Maybe when Web 3.0 comes out, it will have auto-spell/grammar check
Apr 04 17:15:18 <Bmyers> i'm just too lazy to edit them. there are hundreds and hundreds
Apr 04 17:15:30 <Bmyers>  and hundreds
Apr 04 17:16:00 <jbjoerk> It should be safe to call setMenuVisible() from the activate callback, correct?
Apr 04 17:19:00 <jbjoerk> to answer my own question: Yes, but if you call modelChanged() on the menu afterwards in the same callback, it seems the intended effect gets lost
Apr 04 17:19:02 <haeffb_pre> jbjoerk: NO DONT  DO IT!!!
Apr 04 17:19:24 <haeffb_pre> oh, just kidding
Apr 04 17:22:03 <jbjoerk> :)
Apr 04 17:22:28 <jbjoerk> haeffb_pre, you just ruined my spree of being efficient. now I want sangria. And sun. stupid rain.
Apr 04 17:23:01 <haeffb_pre> oops. my bad.
Apr 04 17:24:23 <sugardave> this.weatherModel = {'sun': true}; this.vicinity.modelChanged(this.weatherModel);
Apr 04 17:24:30 <BigBiff> hey haeffb
Apr 04 17:25:34 <haeffb_pre> hey biff
Apr 04 17:25:49 <haeffb_pre> get ur filter wircing?
Apr 04 17:26:54 <haeffb_pre> silly sugardave. mother nature programs in assembly.
Apr 04 17:27:54 <sugardave> dammit, no wonder my shit doesn't work right
Apr 04 17:32:46 <haeffb_pre> precentral homebrew forum seems to be getting less traffic these days.
Apr 04 17:33:39 <Bmyers> ya think?
Apr 04 17:33:46 <haeffb_pre> because more apps in catalog?
Apr 04 17:34:01 <haeffb_pre> or because nobody uses webOS anymore?
Apr 04 17:34:16 <sugardave> I vote former
Apr 04 17:35:57 <Bmyers> going mobile (in a while)
Apr 04 17:42:57 <JenP> happy easter all
Apr 04 17:43:42 <sugardave> JenP: happy easter
Apr 04 17:43:54 <JenP> hi sugardave!
Apr 04 17:44:27 <sugardave> hey hey, did you get your objects working?
Apr 04 17:44:41 <JenP> Yes! I did!
Apr 04 17:44:45 <sugardave> woohoo!
Apr 04 17:44:46 * JenP does a happy dance
Apr 04 17:45:52 <haeffb_pre> happy happy dance dance
Apr 04 17:46:32 <JenP> hi haeffb_pre
Apr 04 17:47:36 <haeffb_pre> happy easter
Apr 04 17:48:01 <haeffb_pre> sent you a beta done
Apr 04 17:48:04 <JenP> happy easter
Apr 04 17:51:21 <sugardave> anybody have an app/update they're looking at submitting in the next few days and want to help me test this Drupal module?
Apr 04 17:58:39 <Roy-Pre101> Hmm....
Apr 04 17:58:42 <Roy-Pre101> Happy Easter, too
Apr 04 17:58:47 <swisstomcat> hoppy easter
Apr 04 17:59:12 <Roy-Pre101> Dream Host is offering me a VPS with 300MB of RAM for $10/mo...   Pretty good deal, I think.
Apr 04 17:59:46 <sugardave> yeah, that sounds pretty good
Apr 04 18:00:13 <sugardave> last time I looked at VPS (long time) the cheapest I found was about $300/year
Apr 04 18:12:30 <BigBiff> got a prob that the first webos book dealt with, but dont really understand it
Apr 04 18:12:32 <BigBiff> http://www.pastie.org/902839
Apr 04 18:12:57 <BigBiff> dealing with updating list items with ajax call
Apr 04 18:13:25 <BigBiff> maybe im just going about it wrong
Apr 04 18:16:00 <BigBiff> i think i could deal with it if each list entry had its own div id
Apr 04 18:16:10 <BigBiff> but with a template, no idea
Apr 04 18:17:29 <sugardave> BigBiff: first thing is I don't see a this.controller.modelChanged() anywhere
Apr 04 18:17:42 <sugardave> do you have that in gotResults?
Apr 04 18:18:08 <swisstomcat> are you working with a list widet at all?
Apr 04 18:18:16 <sugardave> that's my next question
Apr 04 18:18:18 <sugardave> :D
Apr 04 18:18:19 <BigBiff> well ya
Apr 04 18:18:21 <BigBiff> heh
Apr 04 18:18:32 <sugardave> so...modelChanged?
Apr 04 18:18:42 <Kuraiou> :)
Apr 04 18:19:16 <BigBiff> but this.list[i].whatever = response.xmlstuff
Apr 04 18:19:41 <BigBiff> isnt the loop dead by the time it gets there?
Apr 04 18:20:07 <sugardave> BigBiff: but you need to call modelChanged sometime after the response is given, so in onComplete or onSuccess
Apr 04 18:20:37 <sugardave> if you are updating list entries with the response from web via Ajax, that's how you do it
Apr 04 18:20:43 <sugardave> well, that's how I do it, I should say
Apr 04 18:20:52 <BigBiff> ok
Apr 04 18:21:13 <BigBiff> so this.list[i].whatever = responsestuff
Apr 04 18:21:22 <BigBiff> then followed by the model changed command
Apr 04 18:21:26 <sugardave> right
Apr 04 18:22:04 <sugardave> this.controller.modelChanged(theNewListModel);
Apr 04 18:24:08 <sugardave> however, are you able to get at the index (i) in that gotResults function, or are you passing it, too?
Apr 04 18:25:06 <BigBiff> ya that's really my question
Apr 04 18:25:40 <sugardave> ah
Apr 04 18:25:41 <BigBiff> by the time it gets to gotResults, i figured it would already [lastentry]
Apr 04 18:25:43 <sugardave> you will have to pass it
Apr 04 18:26:30 <BigBiff> hehe, and you do that by...
Apr 04 18:26:52 <sugardave> okay
Apr 04 18:27:09 <BigBiff> heh, wife fussing - gotta take kids out now
Apr 04 18:27:14 <BigBiff> back latrz
Apr 04 18:27:21 <sugardave> so, you call this.send(this.modurl)
Apr 04 18:27:33 <sugardave> change send to accept another parm, say index
Apr 04 18:27:53 <sugardave> then you end up with this.send(this.modurl, i)
Apr 04 18:28:36 <sugardave> in your onComplete, it goes this.gotResults.bind(this, index)
Apr 04 18:29:26 <sugardave> and in gotResults you will have index
Apr 04 18:29:52 <BigBiff> ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! yes!
Apr 04 18:30:09 <sugardave> ta-da!
Apr 04 18:32:09 <BigBiff> we'll get to the spinners in the list items later :)
Apr 04 18:33:38 <BigBiff> same idea i guess
Apr 04 18:33:42 <sugardave> yeah
Apr 04 18:33:45 <sugardave> piece of cake
Apr 04 18:33:56 <BigBiff> i just havent been using model changed for spinners
Apr 04 18:34:02 <sugardave> you can make them be properties of the list items
Apr 04 18:34:04 <BigBiff> just mojo.stop
Apr 04 18:34:10 <BigBiff> ahhh
Apr 04 18:34:12 <BigBiff> ice
Apr 04 18:34:13 <sugardave> yeah, that still works
Apr 04 18:34:13 <swisstomcat> you change the model of the spinner to spinning=true
Apr 04 18:34:22 <BigBiff> nice
Apr 04 18:34:22 <sugardave> or that
Apr 04 18:34:58 <sugardave> actually, since they are child widgets
Apr 04 18:35:18 <haeffb_pre> swisstomcat: got mail?
Apr 04 18:35:27 <sugardave> you set a spinning property on the parent list, and the spinners will inherit that list item's property setting
Apr 04 18:35:32 <swisstomcat> haeffb: yup .. have to install it
Apr 04 18:36:13 <haeffb_pre> not to be a pest, but Myles translation? do you need more info?
Apr 04 18:36:16 <sugardave> and THEN you just stop the spinner in the gotresults function before your modelChanged
Apr 04 18:36:42 <swisstomcat> haeffb: yeah, i was working on that too :)
Apr 04 18:37:23 <swisstomcat> haeffb: i translated the string.json but now i have to hunt down untranslated stuff in the html
Apr 04 18:37:25 <haeffb_pre> ok....dont feel pressured... :)
Apr 04 18:38:32 <haeffb_pre> let me know if you find any...i will just add it to strings.json.
Apr 04 18:39:54 <haeffb_pre> I do not want to support multiple HTML files, so everything is supposed to be changed in .js
Apr 04 18:40:45 <swisstomcat> haeffb: preware uses innerHTML replacement where you can't use $L .. no translated html
Apr 04 18:41:43 <haeffb_pre> right. that's what I meant.
Apr 04 18:42:10 <swisstomcat> which scene is the default one?
Apr 04 18:44:06 <sugardave> main?
Apr 04 18:44:28 <sugardave> oh, haeffb_pre's app, sorry
Apr 04 18:45:01 <haeffb_pre> list-scene
Apr 04 18:46:04 <haeffb_pre> swisstomcat: did you repackage with the new strings.json?
Apr 04 18:46:28 <swisstomcat> hmm?
Apr 04 18:46:38 <swisstomcat> did i or should i?
Apr 04 18:48:56 <haeffb_pre> be easier than combing through html lookimg for strings.
Apr 04 18:49:16 <haeffb_pre> repack, install, & browse thru
Apr 04 18:49:29 <haeffb_pre> looking for english
Apr 04 18:52:20 <swisstomcat> yeah, that's what i do
Apr 04 18:55:03 <haeffb_pre> ok. that's what I'd do, too..
Apr 04 19:06:24 <swisstomcat> hey noaXess
Apr 04 19:08:38 <noaXess> hey hey
Apr 04 19:12:42 <swisstomcat> did you work on the expo report?
Apr 04 19:13:50 <noaXess> no..not yet..
Apr 04 19:15:34 <noaXess> will work on it next week... please sned me your comments. so i can merge it
Apr 04 19:52:26 <LoneStar99> happy easter everyone!
Apr 04 20:01:59 <swisstomcat> hoppy easter, lonestar
Apr 04 20:21:22 <codeslaw> peoples
Apr 04 20:21:30 <swisstomcat> hey codeslaw
Apr 04 20:21:33 <codeslaw> how do i add the screen fades?
Apr 04 20:21:38 <codeslaw> scroll fades*
Apr 04 20:21:40 <codeslaw> hey swisstomcat
Apr 04 20:32:46 <haeffb_pre> stylematters
Apr 04 20:32:52 <sugardave> codeslaw: from what I remember, the scroll fades are just divs with specific classes
Apr 04 20:33:03 <codeslaw> cool
Apr 04 20:33:14 <codeslaw> so i'm getting "too many cards open" errors right now on my phone, and i have 0 apps open
Apr 04 20:33:22 <sugardave> lame
Apr 04 20:33:25 <haeffb_pre> reboot
Apr 04 20:33:32 <swisstomcat> use jstop
Apr 04 20:33:42 <swisstomcat> to do a GC
Apr 04 20:33:51 <codeslaw> could it be my app causing memory issues?
Apr 04 20:33:52 <swisstomcat> aka call the garbage truck :)
Apr 04 20:33:58 <haeffb_pre> get an ipad
Apr 04 20:34:02 <sugardave> boo
Apr 04 20:34:05 <codeslaw> i have a huge filter list (2000) that each have a thumbnail
Apr 04 20:34:21 <sugardave> codeslaw: that's probably it
Apr 04 20:34:24 <haeffb_pre> uh. could be.
Apr 04 20:34:30 <swisstomcat> codeslaw: have you tried jstop?
Apr 04 20:34:38 <codeslaw> swisstomcat: no i haven't
Apr 04 20:34:39 <sugardave> might want to figure out the 'load a section of the list at a time' method
Apr 04 20:34:42 <haeffb_pre> palm-worm?
Apr 04 20:35:03 <swisstomcat> jstop shows how much memory is available and which applications use it
Apr 04 20:35:20 <haeffb_pre> filterlist already does...?
Apr 04 20:35:22 <swisstomcat> available through preware
Apr 04 20:35:41 <codeslaw> i thought filter list already only loads a specified amount of items
Apr 04 20:36:10 <codeslaw> swisstomcat: i will check that out
Apr 04 20:36:22 <haeffb_pre> palm-worm shows how many resources you use
Apr 04 20:36:45 <sugardave> oh, I don't know, never used filter list
Apr 04 20:36:52 <codeslaw> haven't tried palm-worm
Apr 04 20:36:57 <haeffb_pre> and charts it
Apr 04 20:37:11 <haeffb_pre> so you can see it over time
Apr 04 20:37:38 <codeslaw> ya checking it out now
Apr 04 20:41:14 <codeslaw> does'nt look abnormal
Apr 04 20:43:51 <swisstomcat> codeslaw: could you take a look at by app? http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.inorbit.animalmemory.beta
Apr 04 20:44:12 <codeslaw> sure
Apr 04 20:47:41 <codeslaw> the one where you match paw prints to animals pictures
Apr 04 20:47:44 <codeslaw> needs some explanation
Apr 04 20:47:48 <codeslaw> i didn't know what to do at first
Apr 04 20:48:07 <swisstomcat> ok, point taken
Apr 04 20:48:24 <codeslaw> how do you choose the game mode?
Apr 04 20:48:25 <swisstomcat> makes sense to have a "how to play" anyway
Apr 04 20:48:50 <swisstomcat> after you finish a game, you can choose a different level
Apr 04 20:48:59 <codeslaw> i see that now
Apr 04 20:49:07 <codeslaw> didn't know toy could click "level"
Apr 04 20:49:14 <swisstomcat> yeah, you're not the only one
Apr 04 20:49:20 <codeslaw> hehe
Apr 04 20:49:27 <codeslaw> game functionality works well though, and looks good
Apr 04 20:49:44 <swisstomcat> have to figure out how to make it more prominent (the drop-down)
Apr 04 20:49:52 <codeslaw> yes
Apr 04 20:50:18 <swisstomcat> have you seen "about the animals"?
Apr 04 20:50:44 <codeslaw> no
Apr 04 20:50:56 <swisstomcat> access it from the help-scene
Apr 04 20:51:10 <swisstomcat> maybe something else to make more prominent
Apr 04 20:51:35 <codeslaw> yes give it it's own menu item
Apr 04 20:51:58 <swisstomcat> that could work
Apr 04 20:52:05 <swisstomcat> or a new start-scene
Apr 04 20:52:12 <swisstomcat> where it's featured
Apr 04 20:52:39 <codeslaw> yes
Apr 04 20:52:49 <swisstomcat> thanks for testing!
Apr 04 20:53:00 <swisstomcat> time for bed already
Apr 04 20:53:03 <swisstomcat> g'night everyone
Apr 04 20:53:08 <codeslaw> np, gnight
Apr 04 20:54:22 <codeslaw> anyone know what noticeRemovedItems does?
Apr 04 20:54:48 <codeslaw> does it flag all the specified items for GC and remove them from the list
Apr 04 20:56:19 <sugardave> codeslaw: I think what it's supposed to do is watch a particular widget's items, and when one is moved, fires an event you can listen for
Apr 04 20:56:33 <sugardave> but, I've never used it, so I could be way off
Apr 04 20:56:39 <farms> how do i access the beta feed in app catalog?
Apr 04 20:56:42 <codeslaw> alright, i'll mess with it
Apr 04 20:57:00 <sugardave> removed, not moved
Apr 04 20:58:35 <farms> not able to?
Apr 04 21:00:23 <nfoxTc> can someone tell me why I'm getting ipgk errors trying to install freetether?
Apr 04 21:06:36 <nfoxTc> n e one?
Apr 04 21:36:21 <zinge> Hi
Apr 04 21:46:58 <rohit1> hello,, i'm portin a app onto webOS,, my app used a "dialog" in the web browser,, when that dialog is run on the emulator certain parts of it aren't clikable
Apr 04 21:47:06 <rohit1> nyone knows the reason?
Apr 04 21:48:59 <zinge> In the web browser meaning the webview widget? Or something else?
Apr 04 21:49:14 <rohit1> firefox
Apr 04 21:49:17 <rohit1> IE
Apr 04 21:49:26 <rohit1> normal webbrowser
Apr 04 21:49:39 <rohit1> the application i'm porting is a js web app
Apr 04 21:50:37 <zinge> Oh, ok. Nope, no idea, sorry.
Apr 04 21:50:42 <haeffb> review calcs are still broken.
Apr 04 21:51:33 <haeffb> user left a 0-star review and dropped the rating. updated the 0-star review and dropped the rating again.
Apr 04 21:51:42 <haeffb> CHUQ!!!!!
Apr 04 21:51:55 <haeffb> you got some 'splaining to do.
Apr 04 21:53:17 <zinge> "'splaining" makes me think "badges? we don't need no stinkin' badges!"
Apr 04 21:53:22 <zinge> not sure why...
Apr 04 21:55:07 <zinge> custom command buttons working. now I just need to figure out why they refuse to interact with the webview widget
Apr 04 22:06:30 <zinge> Got it... this.controller.get('webview').reloadPage() needs to be this.controller.get('webview').mojo.reloadPage()
Apr 04 22:17:12 <haeffb> Palms task app has some REALLY cool features.
Apr 04 22:18:26 <rwhitby> morning
Apr 04 22:18:43 <haeffb> morning
Apr 04 22:32:14 <haeffb> I can not follow Palm's code. at all.
Apr 04 22:49:56 <zsoc> haeffb: i like it, it's very.. programmeresque
Apr 04 22:52:53 <JenP> hi all
Apr 04 22:53:52 <rwhitby> Hi JenP - did you see HGoH ?
Apr 04 22:54:10 <JenP> hi! just had earthquake fun
Apr 04 22:54:14 <JenP> HGoH?
Apr 04 22:54:37 <rwhitby> JenP: http://bit.ly/holy-grail-of-homebrew
Apr 04 22:55:03 <JenP> oh Rod! you have made my day
Apr 04 22:59:17 <haeffb> seems I have some competition: http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.wozware.toodler
Apr 04 23:11:26 <haeffb> what's the current process for settup up WinSCP access to Pre?
Apr 04 23:12:41 <zsoc> Installing OpenSSH in Preware, generating ssh keys, transferring/loading it into WinSCP
Apr 04 23:12:55 <zsoc> and then i'm unsure if it's wifi or usbnet, it might be both
Apr 04 23:16:35 <haeffb> I believe I did all that once. But lost WinSCP when I migrated to Win 7.
Apr 04 23:24:17 <zsoc> Who made paratrooper?
Apr 04 23:24:42 <zsoc> haeffb: in theory the key should still be on your pre to do the process again
Apr 04 23:24:49 <zsoc> otherwise you'll have to regenerate them
Apr 04 23:27:16 <haeffb> I have id_rsa on my PC.
Apr 04 23:27:24 <haeffb> I think that's the key file from the Pre.
Apr 04 23:27:45 <haeffb> but have to do something with puttyGen to get it into WinSCP...if I remember correctly.
Apr 04 23:30:12 <haeffb> success!
Apr 04 23:31:36 <zsoc> haeffb: see, you're a smart guy :>
Apr 04 23:31:42 <zsoc> haeffb: what apps have you released?
Apr 04 23:33:59 <haeffb> TaskAdder, Agenda, Myles
Apr 04 23:34:26 <haeffb> TaskAdder - free in catalog. Agenda - free in homebrew (uses undoc'd API). Myles - paid in catalog.
Apr 04 23:35:00 <zsoc> Myles looks nice. I'd totally buy it if I had a car, lol.
Apr 04 23:35:25 <zsoc> what do you do for a living?
Apr 04 23:40:03 <haeffb> lead a staff of highway designers
Apr 04 23:40:19 <haeffb> http://www.modot.org/northcentral
Apr 04 23:40:52 <zsoc> interesting
Apr 04 23:41:12 <haeffb> that's my real life. webOS is a hobby.
Apr 04 23:43:25 <rwhitby> haeffb: is Save/Restore working for Myles now?
Apr 04 23:44:54 <rwhitby> haeffb: id_rsa is your private key.  you can generate the public key for putting on the Pre from that using PuTTY gen or ssh-keygen
Apr 04 23:45:05 <rwhitby> oh, I see you got it.
Apr 04 23:47:54 <haeffb> it was, haven't tested lately.
Apr 04 23:53:44 <haeffb> so, the question now is: continue working on Toodledo app, or punt that and move on... ?
Apr 04 23:58:39 <zsoc> haeffb: whatever will make you the happiest
Apr 04 23:58:46 <zsoc> I guess that depends on what's in the 'move on' list
Apr 04 23:59:03 <zsoc> Also, I should assume prototype's cleanup class happens when you close a stage?
Apr 04 23:59:35 <haeffb> yes, when a scene or stage is closed, it's cleanup method is called.
Apr 04 23:59:51 <haeffb> maybe I'll go into the #webos consulting business.
Apr 05 00:00:28 <zsoc> if webos takes off, it's a good idea
Apr 05 00:00:45 <haeffb> well, I mean the #webos IRC channel.
Apr 05 00:00:54 <zsoc> oh, lol
Apr 05 00:00:54 <haeffb> I'll just sit here all day and wait for questions.
Apr 05 00:01:03 <zsoc> $2 paypal to this@address.com
Apr 05 00:01:06 <zsoc> lol
Apr 05 00:01:07 <haeffb> oh, uh. wait. that's what I do now.
Apr 05 00:01:16 <zsoc> no, make them paypal you first :D
Apr 05 00:01:19 <JenP> haeffb do they have to be webos or are you open to all
Apr 05 00:01:47 <haeffb> good point, JenP. I can make up answers about anything, not just #webos.
Apr 05 00:01:52 <zsoc> I just wrote 200 lines of js/mojo and I haven't tested any of it yet. This doesn't bode well. I don't even know javascript.
Apr 05 00:01:55 <JenP> lol
Apr 05 00:02:14 <haeffb> oh, zsoc!
Apr 05 00:02:20 <haeffb> I write three lines and test.
Apr 05 00:02:36 <haeffb> then debug two out of the three and test again.
Apr 05 00:02:42 <zsoc> haeffb: well, this happens when i feel comfortable that i know how something will react.. then i debug it in my head ;)
Apr 05 00:02:52 <zsoc> unfortunately, i think the scotch is getting to me
Apr 05 00:03:09 <haeffb> drunk coding is one of my favorite pastimes.
Apr 05 00:03:14 <haeffb> passtimes?
Apr 05 00:03:17 <haeffb> pasttimes?
Apr 05 00:03:20 <haeffb> pasttimes.
Apr 05 00:03:26 <JenP> my favorite are the notes i leave myself
Apr 05 00:03:26 <zsoc> pastimes
Apr 05 00:03:51 <haeffb> one of my favorite ways of passing time.
Apr 05 00:03:51 <zsoc> I'm not even sure I can install/test a service in the emulator.. hmm.. i guess i don't see why i can't...
Apr 05 00:03:59 <zsoc> haeffb: better way of putting it :>
Apr 05 00:33:00 <haeffb> why did I not know you could do this:  this.controller.stageController.assistant.myFunc or this.controller.stageController.assistant.myProperty ?
Apr 05 00:41:29 <halfhalo_T400> lol
Apr 05 00:41:46 <halfhalo_T400> if it makes you feel better I didn;t know that either haeffb
Apr 05 00:42:22 <halfhalo_T400> I _ALMOST_ have the mini set up the way I like it again
Apr 05 00:42:36 <halfhalo_T400> now all I need is a damn 5 port gigabit switch
Apr 05 00:44:43 <halfhalo_T400> just have to finish adding my emails to mail and i'm done with basic setup
Apr 05 00:45:53 <BigBiff_> ok, so im back at it - im close
Apr 05 00:46:01 <BigBiff_> http://www.pastie.org/902839  .....but
Apr 05 00:46:14 <BigBiff_> still cant pass [i] all the way through
Apr 05 00:49:36 <halfhalo_T400> BigBiff_
Apr 05 00:49:45 <halfhalo_T400> close
Apr 05 00:49:50 <halfhalo_T400> but you flipped something
Apr 05 00:50:04 <BigBiff_> ya?
Apr 05 00:50:06 <halfhalo_T400> switch this and index and see it if works
Apr 05 00:50:17 <halfhalo_T400> either that gets flipped or transport and index does
Apr 05 00:50:23 <halfhalo_T400> can't remember off the top of my head
Apr 05 00:52:48 <haeffb> transport & index
Apr 05 00:53:52 <BigBiff_> woohoo
Apr 05 01:04:13 <zinge> anyone need help with anything? I've spent the last few days asking questions, I feel like I should return the favor.
Apr 05 01:06:41 <haeffb> yes. how can I wait until a variable number of AjaxRequests and Database transactions are complete before updating my list model?
Apr 05 01:07:01 <halfhalo_T400> Use a counter!
Apr 05 01:07:43 <halfhalo_T400> when you start, add one to it, end your finished, subtract 1, and when it hits 0, update list
Apr 05 01:07:51 <haeffb> that's what I was thinking...but it seems sort of susceptible to error. what if one of the AjaxRequests doesnt complete?
Apr 05 01:08:12 <haeffb> or something.l
Apr 05 01:08:18 <halfhalo_T400> subtract onfailure as well
Apr 05 01:08:32 <zinge> increment the counter on both success and failure
Apr 05 01:08:42 <haeffb> this.transactionCount += 1;
Apr 05 01:08:44 <zinge> what he said :-)
Apr 05 01:08:49 <haeffb> this.transactionCount -= 1;
Apr 05 01:09:15 <haeffb> if this.transactionCount.isNear.zero doStuff
Apr 05 01:10:37 <zinge> (pardon my slow responses, laptop died so I'm now on wIRC)
Apr 05 01:19:27 <haeffb> actually, now that I think about it, I don't care about the Ajax stuff. Only the database transactions change my local data...
Apr 05 01:20:45 <zinge> what kind of database transactions?
Apr 05 01:21:38 <haeffb> well, crap, this isn't going to work, either.
Apr 05 01:21:47 <zinge> (just wondering)
Apr 05 01:21:49 <haeffb> adding, updating db rows
Apr 05 01:23:05 <haeffb> I'm moving through a series of sync function. Check info on web, check info in DB, add new stuff from DB to web, add new stuff from web to DB, delete from each if needed, update if changed in one or the other.
Apr 05 01:23:12 <haeffb> it gets...complicated.
Apr 05 01:23:33 <zinge> ah
Apr 05 01:25:30 <zinge> aren't they ordered then?
Apr 05 01:26:12 <haeffb> everything is asynchronous. Call the web service to see what new tasks there may be. wait for the response. Add them do the DB.
Apr 05 01:26:22 <zinge> instead of incremented, just all each one from the previous one's success/failure, use a counter or something to make sure a certain number of them succed, if you hit it, update the model?
Apr 05 01:26:41 <haeffb> Meanwhile, check the DB to see what new tasks there may be....etc.
Apr 05 01:26:48 <zinge> ah
Apr 05 01:27:15 <haeffb> & if I add 5 tasks to the DB, I get five onSuccesses.
Apr 05 01:27:54 <haeffb> & if I add a task from the DB to the web, I have to get the ID assigned by the web, then update that task in the DB with the id.
Apr 05 01:28:01 <haeffb> &...
Apr 05 01:28:20 <zinge> and you want to wait till the 5 all finish before you update?
Apr 05 01:28:24 <haeffb> yep
Apr 05 01:28:36 <haeffb> & the update of the new ID to finish as well.
Apr 05 01:28:43 <haeffb> & any deletes to finish as well.
Apr 05 01:29:01 <haeffb> right now, I just update the list model after EACH one completes.
Apr 05 01:29:16 <haeffb>  that works, but it seems...unnecessarily resource intensive.
Apr 05 01:30:14 <haeffb> problem with the counter method - the 5 task adds could complete before I even start the update ID.
Apr 05 01:30:37 <haeffb> of course, that would reduce from 6 modelChangeds to 2. So that's at least progress.
Apr 05 01:30:45 <zinge> separate counters for each ategory of activty?
Apr 05 01:31:14 <zinge> and combine them befrore you check to modelChanged?
Apr 05 01:31:54 <haeffb> I might have to wait to do this until I'm sober.
Apr 05 01:32:06 <zinge> or separate counters, and once each one hits it's zero-target, add to a master that counts down for each ategory?
Apr 05 01:32:07 <zinge> lol
Apr 05 01:33:28 <zinge> so 5 categories, each time one hits 0, subtract from master, when master hits zero, update.
Apr 05 01:34:03 <zinge> that may not actually make sense... I'm sober, but sleep deprived and on a loud and shakey bus
Apr 05 01:36:17 <haeffb> interesting.
Apr 05 01:40:39 <zinge> random comment: most of the (admittedly not-very-complicated) apps I write, I don't start off using. after a couple versions and feature additions though, they get to a point where I decide, "hey, this is something worthwhile". the problem is that when they break, I'm now relying on them, and I can't blame anyone else for not updating them.
Apr 05 01:40:53 <haeffb> son of a beach. The counter thing works.
Apr 05 01:41:01 <zinge> nice!
Apr 05 01:41:20 <haeffb> haven't gotten into categories, yet, but that may be a refinement.
Apr 05 01:55:23 <haeffb> so, I'm down from 70+ calls to modelChanged to 4. That may be close enough... :)
Apr 05 01:56:08 <zinge> lol, does sound like a decent improvement
Apr 05 01:59:44 <haeffb> re: your earlier random comment - most of the apps I write, I write because I need them.
Apr 05 01:59:53 <haeffb> Or thought I did at the time.
Apr 05 02:00:35 <zinge> I've been writing apps because people mentioned they wanted them, and I thought it was something I could figure out. after a couple revisions, I start using them myself.
Apr 05 02:01:07 <zinge> such as brightness unlinked, which is letting me actually see my kb right now without blinding me and everyone elseon this bus
Apr 05 02:02:01 <zinge> of course, it also frustrates me when they break, because I have no one to blame but myself when they're not updated with fixes :-)
Apr 05 02:11:07 <zinge> any idea why my google search page on the phone defaults to french?
Apr 05 02:13:08 <zsoc> zinge: you are an american sprint user
Apr 05 02:13:29 <zinge> yup
Apr 05 02:14:35 <zsoc> zinge: it has to do with how ip's are assigned (occasionally they bleed over into the french canadia)
Apr 05 02:14:43 <zsoc> www.google.com/webhp will default you to english
Apr 05 02:16:04 <zinge> hmm... still french.
Apr 05 02:16:47 <zinge> you'd think the page would be smart enoug to try polling the google location service :-)
Apr 05 02:17:28 <zsoc> do you really want it doing that? heh
Apr 05 02:17:46 <zsoc> zinge: try www.google.us/webhp
Apr 05 02:17:50 <zsoc> that should always been en
Apr 05 02:18:37 <zinge> nope, still french :-)
Apr 05 02:18:48 <zinge> I don't think it likes me
Apr 05 02:19:04 <zsoc> odd
Apr 05 02:19:24 <zsoc> i would say do a network settings / profile update, but you'll have to disconnect from wirc first
Apr 05 02:20:27 <zsoc> you might be doing something wrong, www.google.com/webhp /always/ displays in english
Apr 05 02:20:36 <zsoc> I just connected to it from my box in japan
Apr 05 02:20:50 <zinge> I'm clicking your link in wirc ::shrug::
Apr 05 02:21:11 <zsoc> hm.. try typing it in
Apr 05 02:21:41 <zinge> npe, still french
Apr 05 02:22:04 <zsoc> you are an anomaly
Apr 05 02:22:07 <zinge> there's a "google in english" button on the bottom, but I don't think that'll stick as default.
Apr 05 02:22:09 <zinge> lol
Apr 05 02:22:51 <zinge> wait... it sees me as logged in to my google account.. couls it have saved to that?
Apr 05 02:23:00 <zinge> lemme check search preferences...
Apr 05 02:23:05 <zsoc> that's possible
Apr 05 02:23:08 <zsoc> do you speak french? lol
Apr 05 02:26:26 <zinge> je ne parle pas francais
Apr 05 02:26:33 <zinge> so.. no :-)
Apr 05 02:29:20 <zinge> goodnight all
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 05 02:59:56 2010