**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 26 02:59:56 2010 Apr 26 03:07:52 yes you can. Apr 26 03:08:05 You don't WANT to wait to watch them, but you can. :) Apr 26 03:08:19 I love english. Apr 26 03:09:42 hi all Apr 26 03:09:47 hey JenP Apr 26 03:09:58 hey rod how ya doing? Apr 26 03:10:39 JenP: excellent. oil is doing wonder with Govnah Apr 26 03:11:00 JenP: http://www.webos-internals.org/images/0/0b/Govnah_themes.png Apr 26 03:11:04 really? the whole temp thing working out? Apr 26 03:11:26 OMG that's freaking awesome! Apr 26 03:12:39 tine in state ? Apr 26 03:12:48 i like the dark theme .. looks nice Apr 26 03:12:54 current version has an initial full-screen graph if you tap on one of the mini-graphs Apr 26 03:13:03 bpadalino: time spent at each frequency Apr 26 03:13:17 125,250,500,550,600,720,800 Apr 26 03:13:20 so s/tine/time/ ? Apr 26 03:13:34 oh, that was fixed before 0.2.0 Apr 26 03:13:40 gotcha Apr 26 03:20:38 evening Apr 26 03:23:55 evning Apr 26 03:24:38 I forget who it was at palm who suggested that 600 was a BAD frequency choice due to harmonics in the RF interfering with radio function. Apr 26 03:25:37 hey rick Apr 26 03:25:42 already got dinner? Apr 26 03:30:06 yep sorry Marcus. Apr 26 03:30:10 about an hour ago. Apr 26 03:33:00 no problem, i ate enough today already :) Apr 26 03:33:42 are there any issues with the SDK and Win7 x64? I have it working fine on my laptop but I cant get the emulator to run on this machine Apr 26 03:34:00 what happens when you try to run the emulator? Apr 26 03:35:08 closes out right away. I ran it from a cmd.exe window and I see 'java' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. Apr 26 03:35:18 ah Apr 26 03:35:22 meh... could be my path Apr 26 03:35:24 can you open a command prompt? Apr 26 03:35:31 and try java -version there? Apr 26 03:35:41 yes, it might be your path that's not set Apr 26 03:36:04 hmm... eclipse runs just fine though. let me see... Apr 26 03:36:47 java is from jdk in this case Apr 26 03:37:14 ah, got it. Apr 26 03:37:54 thanks. Apr 26 04:08:13 noticed they placed a notice on why download numbers where off, when I last logged in "friday" Apr 26 04:10:04 yeah, they're not off, they're corrected. Apr 26 04:10:31 But as Chuq said "Posting the explanation FIRST would have been a good thing." Apr 26 04:11:55 how did developer day go Apr 26 04:12:26 hey ron_frown Apr 26 04:12:47 it went well, i missed friday but there was a lot of information on saturday as well Apr 26 04:13:00 it was great to meet and talk to many palm people and developers Apr 26 04:13:22 and with all the palm execs dissapearing Apr 26 04:13:22 have you read about the upcoming changes to webos development? Apr 26 04:13:26 what was the general feel? Apr 26 04:13:26 Rick_work: yeah Apr 26 04:13:28 no I havent Apr 26 04:13:36 we'll get javascript services Apr 26 04:13:41 ? Apr 26 04:13:44 was freaking out on friday night Apr 26 04:13:50 right now services are in java (or c) Apr 26 04:13:56 they will be in javascript Apr 26 04:14:17 swisstomcat: you still in cali? Apr 26 04:14:28 blah Apr 26 04:14:31 lonestar: yeah, sitting in the hotel room Apr 26 04:14:33 I'd rather have c for services Apr 26 04:14:43 blah? nodeJS and commonJS is going to be cool. Apr 26 04:14:51 ron_frown there will still be C services. Apr 26 04:15:09 javascript has turned out to be quite a pain in the ass to build even medium quality stuf Apr 26 04:15:09 f Apr 26 04:15:22 but javascript services are easier to sandbox and therefore can be auto-included in apps without review. Apr 26 04:15:23 we'll get file i/o,low-level network,libcurl,xml parser for those services Apr 26 04:15:28 nodnod Apr 26 04:15:45 there will be a new native json datastore Apr 26 04:15:46 javascript is a pain in the ass to build quality stuff? I -like- javascript. Apr 26 04:15:50 (and hate C.) Apr 26 04:15:58 what kinda time frame Apr 26 04:16:01 before they go out of business? Apr 26 04:16:07 summer/autumn Apr 26 04:16:10 bits and pieces very soon. Apr 26 04:16:16 everything listed by autumn Apr 26 04:16:22 such pessimism Apr 26 04:16:34 we'll get audio/video recording access Apr 26 04:16:37 bluetooth spp Apr 26 04:16:44 bonjour/zeroconf Apr 26 04:17:00 I honeslty think the audio recoridng is accessable from what I've seen so far Apr 26 04:17:09 its a round about way you'd have to do it Apr 26 04:17:09 put on your happy face, find your happy place, the sun will come up tommorow. Apr 26 04:17:12 but I think you coud do it Apr 26 04:17:34 Rick_work: you back home now? Apr 26 04:17:36 ron_frown precorder works now for audio recording. Apr 26 04:17:47 JenP no, I am meeting with Matt McN tommorow Apr 26 04:17:57 cool...about the book? Apr 26 04:18:02 yep Apr 26 04:18:02 you can make existing web apps using webos services and widgets by just including the mojo core library Apr 26 04:18:05 straight sdl/and alsa or whatever Apr 26 04:18:21 I think you could link it, which may not get approved Apr 26 04:18:33 ares has now a standalone debugger and log viewer Apr 26 04:18:42 exactly. You can link it now. It won't get approved yet. Apr 26 04:18:55 real debugger? Apr 26 04:19:00 because whats there now is worthless =) Apr 26 04:19:13 Reak debugger. Apr 26 04:19:14 http://ares.palm.com/AresDebug/ Apr 26 04:19:20 totally working now. Apr 26 04:19:41 does it work with all the apps you guys have build? Apr 26 04:19:46 bring up your emulator. Run some app. Bring up that URL in a webkit browser. Apr 26 04:19:48 eg, can I import a local project to ares Apr 26 04:19:54 it's VERY COOL Apr 26 04:20:00 you've been able to do that since day 1. Apr 26 04:20:06 but you can debug WITHOUT importing it. Apr 26 04:20:13 rick how does debugger know how to hit my machine Apr 26 04:20:14 it's a standalone part Apr 26 04:20:37 It communicates with the emulator that''s running via novacomm Apr 26 04:20:43 (using a java plugin) Apr 26 04:21:00 we'll get gpu accelerated css animations/transitions Apr 26 04:21:08 oh, right. Apr 26 04:21:15 did they say anythign about all the rumors? Apr 26 04:21:20 hardware accelerated luna Apr 26 04:21:25 Yes, they did. Apr 26 04:21:29 hardware accelerated TUNA!?! Apr 26 04:21:30 rumors are rumors Apr 26 04:21:36 Rubenstein came on stage. Apr 26 04:21:38 haha Apr 26 04:21:42 that doesnt mean they arent rumor Apr 26 04:21:47 every company says that shit Apr 26 04:21:52 sorry Apr 26 04:21:56 I'll try and stay positive Apr 26 04:22:24 he pointed out that "I am still here." and that prior to that day his personal favorite rumor was the one about palm switching to android. He says he keeps asking people if they've seen that memo? Apr 26 04:22:35 good Apr 26 04:22:41 app catalog improvments are in the works (we just saw some screenshots) Apr 26 04:22:47 I hope they gt thier stuff together... I'd like to see palm go big Apr 26 04:23:04 I like conceptual webos crap.. just a few shortcomings Apr 26 04:23:07 He said that Palm is absolutely committed to making webos a success, and that there are very cool products in the works. -- which -- of course, under the SEC rules, he's not free to discuss. Apr 26 04:23:14 I'll continue on with PDKContrib Apr 26 04:23:35 the sdk will get about the same capabilities as the pdk Apr 26 04:23:43 basically, yeah. Apr 26 04:23:50 nice Apr 26 04:23:59 want about anything with voice? Apr 26 04:24:10 audio/video recording was mentioned Apr 26 04:24:11 what about it? Apr 26 04:24:37 audio video recording and display objects. (I.e. the ability to play video in a widget in a mojo app.) Apr 26 04:24:45 and to record, other than in the camera app. Apr 26 04:25:23 js-services can do low-level networking or higher-up http stuff (libcurl) Apr 26 04:25:34 like something like google voice search.... Apr 26 04:25:42 the json datastore sounds interesting too ... it will be open source Apr 26 04:26:11 if you can access the microphone then it should be possible to build an app like google voice search Apr 26 04:26:25 what is json datastore swisstomcat Apr 26 04:26:41 I am happy to se ethem adding ANYTHING to js Apr 26 04:26:43 right now we have the html5 depot (or cookies) to store data Apr 26 04:26:47 yeah - can the PSK access the microphone? Apr 26 04:26:53 but I suspect c++ will still be the choice for that crapola Apr 26 04:26:54 which is sqlite Apr 26 04:27:02 writing socket stuff in c++ is just oging to be better Apr 26 04:27:09 the db8 datastore stores json objects Apr 26 04:27:16 why is that? Apr 26 04:27:28 have you followed node.js/common.js? Apr 26 04:27:37 I would have liked to see mono running on the phone Apr 26 04:27:43 that would enable RAPID market app dev Apr 26 04:27:48 swisstomcat: json datastore, would be recommended for large data? Apr 26 04:28:09 PSK = PDK... Apr 26 04:28:34 ok Apr 26 04:28:40 i can't really tell if sqllite or db8 is better for large data sets Apr 26 04:28:46 so ares on my machine do I have the project anywhere on eros or it should just work Apr 26 04:28:56 db8 should be faster than depot Apr 26 04:29:03 it also has access controls Apr 26 04:29:45 common.js does stuff like file i/o Apr 26 04:30:00 async background operations Apr 26 04:30:06 and different transports Apr 26 04:30:32 ron_frown: if you want to see mono running, ping miguel Apr 26 04:30:41 mono runs on linux Apr 26 04:30:45 ron_frown: you should be able to just use the emulator and the debugger Apr 26 04:30:57 mono runs faster on android than the dalvik vm Apr 26 04:31:04 so faster than java android apps Apr 26 04:31:16 ares debugger! Apr 26 04:31:41 thats pretty fuggin impressive for being in a web browser Apr 26 04:32:44 anyone know if we access to the microphone with the PDK? Apr 26 04:33:00 not with the current one Apr 26 04:33:10 I am pretty sure you could Apr 26 04:33:21 but i assume if they will give us access with the sdk that you should get access with the pdk as well Apr 26 04:33:22 maybe risk detection of unsupported libs Apr 26 04:33:27 they both talk to services Apr 26 04:34:17 swisstomcat: thanks, what about new devices? Apr 26 04:34:40 the dev days were about development, not hardware Apr 26 04:34:48 nothing was mentioned Apr 26 04:35:02 lol Apr 26 04:35:02 we all got a pre plus dev phone tho which is very cool Apr 26 04:35:15 really free? Apr 26 04:35:33 yeah Apr 26 04:36:25 sorry free as in beer? Apr 26 04:36:59 yes Apr 26 04:37:12 cool shit Apr 26 04:37:14 a developer phone without contract Apr 26 04:37:21 awesome Apr 26 04:38:01 oh yes, it's good to have a dev phone Apr 26 04:38:14 for testing Apr 26 04:38:42 wtf is this crap about having to pay $50 to put a free app up on the app catalog? Apr 26 04:39:12 would have been cool to go =( Apr 26 04:39:43 no seriously wtf :| Apr 26 04:39:45 arghh Apr 26 04:40:18 Kuraiou: i heard of a bug like that some time ago Apr 26 04:40:43 free apps get reviewed too that's why you have to pay the app review fee Apr 26 04:40:54 swisstomcat: how much longer u staying in cali for? Apr 26 04:40:56 only open source apps won't have that fee Apr 26 04:41:04 oh yeah Apr 26 04:41:09 welp, then I guess I'm not going to submit it. Apr 26 04:41:11 or web-distributed apps Apr 26 04:41:11 fuck'em. Apr 26 04:41:30 open-source it Apr 26 04:41:31 sorry free apps are $50 cuss u can still make money with advertisement Apr 26 04:41:38 it's a lite version of an existing app. Apr 26 04:41:42 or web distro it Apr 26 04:41:59 somehow I don't think advertising would bring in enough to break that $50 Apr 26 04:42:02 not for this, anyways Apr 26 04:42:06 not for a long, long long long time Apr 26 04:42:15 was thinking of a bug of getting charged for an update Apr 26 04:42:45 i agree, there should be a better method for lite/trial apps of an exisiting app Apr 26 04:42:50 Kuraiou: don't put it in the app store then and just distribute it over the web ? Apr 26 04:42:52 if you are the RadioTime app you will see $300 a day Apr 26 04:42:56 a/store/catalog/ Apr 26 04:43:17 bpadalino: what percentage, would you guess, of pre/pixi users use the web distro instead of the app catalog? Apr 26 04:43:27 screw it, I'm paying. Apr 26 04:43:30 whatever. Apr 26 04:43:43 really, light/free versions of paid apps should cost less. Apr 26 04:43:44 you seem to be letting your emotions guide you through this .. Apr 26 04:44:10 if you have a free/light app that might bring you more sales of the paid one Apr 26 04:44:23 I still haven't gotten word back from chuq about the screwup with my paypal account. :/ Apr 26 04:46:29 he was probably busy with the dev days Apr 26 04:46:33 Web distro is less than 5% of all downloads according to info yesterday. Apr 26 04:47:45 have you looked at the examples of writing a simple service in node.js, rick? Apr 26 04:47:55 it's very short Apr 26 04:48:12 Kuraiou -- the $50 to put an app IN THE APP CATALOG is to cover -- for the life of the app -- the cost of having a highly skilled individual like Adora review the app for compliance, for hosting it, for re-reviewing at update, for managing the app catalog, etc etc etc. Apr 26 04:48:19 it's a VERY VERY reasonable price. Apr 26 04:49:14 and your app only needs 13,000 downloads to break the $1000 prize barrier. so if it's any good, who cares? Apr 26 04:50:45 what I havent been able to think of a way to do Apr 26 04:51:05 have a sdk page full of graphics a designer could easily create Apr 26 04:51:13 and have touching on a portion of it animate Apr 26 04:51:25 animation also created by somone talented in that Apr 26 04:51:42 I could built it as a pdk app and handle all the touch handling etc etc etc Apr 26 04:51:59 basically write a GUI lib which is more than I want o do Apr 26 04:52:12 I can use a canvas, but there is no way to take something a cusomer supplies Apr 26 04:52:33 canvas support is pretty bad, so I doubt cake will work under webos Apr 26 04:53:27 canvas support is basic but ok (and fast) Apr 26 04:53:43 is there a way to import svg? Apr 26 04:53:48 cake is supposed to be able to do that Apr 26 04:53:58 css3 transitions/transformations are fast Apr 26 04:54:05 ok Apr 26 04:54:08 cake is a canvas library? Apr 26 04:54:25 yes Apr 26 04:54:40 limitations of canvas: no pixel operations,no shadows, cannot save raster contents, text support is basic Apr 26 04:54:42 I tried messing around with simple animation Apr 26 04:54:53 and I know its possible Apr 26 04:55:07 but so difficult to build an animation it'd be next to impossible to have a designer build something simple Apr 26 04:55:10 limitations of css3: no custom fonts,no shadows,no gradients Apr 26 04:55:11 and interacting with it Apr 26 04:55:14 forget about it Apr 26 04:55:37 there's no @fontface support? Apr 26 04:55:38 you can layer canvas and css animations Apr 26 04:55:47 swisstomcat: why tho Apr 26 04:55:56 what woudl the advantage of using the canvas at all be at this point Apr 26 04:56:10 webos doesnt supposedly do APNG so your animation is going to be changing img frames Apr 26 04:56:34 e.g draw a linegraph with canvas and then layout/animate it with css Apr 26 04:57:02 so say I have an image you tap, and its supposed to do play some short animation loop (thats not just zooming or rotating of an image Apr 26 04:58:17 ron_frown: are you having issues with web technologies not being able to do what you want, or webOS specifically not being able to do what you want ? Apr 26 04:58:55 well I know had it been fully supported canvas and/or apng Apr 26 04:59:00 it'd be more or less trivial Apr 26 04:59:32 why not do that part in openGL then ? Apr 26 04:59:37 evn just a simple little gui lib for pdk so I could handle clicks Apr 26 04:59:50 handle clicks in the mojo, and pass them down Apr 26 05:00:11 ron_frown: what are you trying to do? Apr 26 05:00:33 it really sounds more like a bitch-fest instead of trying to accomplish something tangible Apr 26 05:01:17 say just a scene with a bunch of animals and as you click each it'll play some animation Apr 26 05:01:25 that I can do with pdk and or just straight canvas Apr 26 05:01:42 but being able to have a designer build those animations are next to impossivle (because canvas is a bunch of js commands) Apr 26 05:01:56 ron_frown: canvas will do the trick Apr 26 05:02:06 you could do that with svg as well, couldn't you ? Apr 26 05:02:16 if it supported svg Apr 26 05:02:21 I think it'd be real easy to do what I want =) Apr 26 05:02:35 http://www.benjoffe.com/code/games/torus/ Apr 26 05:03:11 canvas can do more than enough. Apr 26 05:03:29 are you listenting to what I am saying Apr 26 05:03:36 http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/ Apr 26 05:03:43 how to you say hey designer, build me a some animations for canvas Apr 26 05:04:03 flash cs5 is SUPPOSED to do it Apr 26 05:04:03 hire good designers, or do it yourself ? Apr 26 05:04:05 but when? Apr 26 05:04:10 "hey, designer, can you give me N frames of animation"? Apr 26 05:04:13 ron_frown: with canvas you can import pngs and animate etc.... Apr 26 05:04:22 I don't understand the question, because you can have images and cycle through them. Apr 26 05:04:57 you've got the entirety of javascript -- I believe scriptaculous has some animation functionality in it, and it's under Prototype, which means it's supported in webOS. Apr 26 05:05:00 ok thats good... now say I want one of htose images to be a trigger of an animation Apr 26 05:05:27 the tap events dont fire for good reason once theyve been drawn in the canvas context Apr 26 05:05:50 even if you're listening on the document body instead of the canvas? Apr 26 05:06:02 I was listening on img Apr 26 05:06:12 it might be a z-index thing Apr 26 05:06:17 if I listend on canvas it worked fine Apr 26 05:06:20 oh Apr 26 05:06:21 Kuraiou: that may be Apr 26 05:06:30 well then, why not listen on the canvas, and just convert the x/y values into what the object is? Apr 26 05:06:39 where* Apr 26 05:06:48 Kuraiou: well I could do that, but then I'd have to keep track of a load of shit Apr 26 05:06:56 which isnt the end of the world Apr 26 05:07:11 they arent going to be able to move around... other than doing a flip or some such crap Apr 26 05:07:47 a lot of canvas animation stuff I saw relied on save() restore() Apr 26 05:07:55 at least that was my understanding Apr 26 05:08:34 http://cs.helsinki.fi/u/ilmarihe/canvas_animation_demo/mozcampeu09.html Apr 26 05:09:04 I've seen that Apr 26 05:09:12 maybe try seeing how well processing.js works with webos Apr 26 05:10:32 the talk that was given at the developer days was suggesting to animate canvas elements with css3 Apr 26 05:10:32 can't wait to see those slides again Apr 26 05:11:13 well I wouldnt really need canvas elements if I was animating with css3 Apr 26 05:12:06 ron_frown: http://www.urloid.com/ Apr 26 05:12:23 LoneStar99: ok thanks Apr 26 05:12:24 ? Apr 26 05:12:28 that uses a js library for animation Apr 26 05:12:30 oh bg =) Apr 26 05:12:31 haha Apr 26 05:12:53 i made that site with a js library let me find it Apr 26 05:20:11 ron_frown: here is the library http://fx.inetcat.com/ Apr 26 05:20:33 wow, that's actually really, really cool. Apr 26 05:21:49 yeah and it is very small Apr 26 06:21:33 goodnight everyone Apr 26 06:23:45 hi guys, who's still up? Apr 26 06:23:50 oi Apr 26 06:23:53 moi Apr 26 06:24:01 you willing to test an app for me? Apr 26 06:24:22 i suppose so Apr 26 06:26:33 http://www.vocshop.com/rick/com.vocshop.weatherradar_1.0.0_all.ipk Apr 26 06:27:41 one sec Apr 26 06:27:51 dont know if my pixi plus has jucie Apr 26 06:29:11 emulator's ok, hoping to get a reaction about if the app is self-documenting. Does it require instructions or is it totally obvious? Apr 26 06:30:22 I'm reallyy hoping for totally obvious. Apr 26 06:30:43 should have enough juice in just one sec Apr 26 06:30:45 fire it up Apr 26 06:35:31 kk Apr 26 06:36:10 shit your webserver isnt searving it up as a binary Apr 26 06:37:01 uh. Apr 26 06:37:16 just go to the directory http://www.vocshop.com/rick Apr 26 06:37:22 and then right click and save as. Apr 26 06:37:32 sorry about that, but directory serving is turned on in that dir. Apr 26 06:41:47 ij Apr 26 06:41:48 ok Apr 26 06:41:50 ond xd Apr 26 06:41:52 wtf Apr 26 06:41:54 one sec Apr 26 06:42:38 still does the same thing Apr 26 06:42:44 weird. Apr 26 06:42:48 ok, thanks for trying. Apr 26 06:42:50 np Apr 26 06:42:55 arrrghhh. Apr 26 06:52:31 omg just saw this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VybDHIEzSmo&feature=player_embedded Apr 26 06:53:10 nice one AT&T! Apr 26 06:53:59 nice Apr 26 06:54:04 this is the kidna shit that needs to happen Apr 26 06:54:06 now better phone Apr 26 07:02:20 good morning Apr 26 07:08:12 god if that $fx lib works Apr 26 07:08:19 that will be perfect for what I am looking for Apr 26 07:08:47 http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4988/engine2n.jpg Apr 26 07:08:49 like that shit Apr 26 07:08:54 that case is structural Apr 26 07:09:02 pan Apr 26 07:09:12 damn it Apr 26 08:38:38 in case anyone cared Apr 26 08:38:41 fx runs on webos Apr 26 08:38:45 animation works well Apr 26 10:59:50 what's fx ? Apr 26 11:29:48 Morn'n Apr 26 13:49:18 morning Apr 26 13:58:23 morning Apr 26 16:11:37 bbl Apr 26 16:13:46 anyone here using ares? Apr 26 16:14:06 not me, but if you're using it i'd like to have some feedback Apr 26 16:14:12 nope Apr 26 16:14:44 well I am playing around with it for simple apps Apr 26 16:14:53 * Woody4u is using ares Apr 26 16:15:20 I usually just use notepad++ but for something simple that might not be required. Apr 26 16:15:29 but only coding a simple app Apr 26 16:15:48 notepad++ for coding advanced app Apr 26 16:16:00 I am hoping to avoid that for simple items Apr 26 16:16:35 as in if I can cut my time from 1 hour to 15 minutes, the I will use ares, otherwise ill stick with notepad ++ Apr 26 16:17:01 Woody4u is there anything funny you need to do to get Ares apps to work right Apr 26 16:17:43 I created an app and added html object and it doesnt do anything on the device, the HTML I added does not work Apr 26 16:17:44 no Apr 26 16:17:47 or show Apr 26 16:17:53 interesting Apr 26 16:18:05 anything works as expected Apr 26 16:25:35 the thing I noticed is that the code used in ARES seems to be different that when using traditional framework Apr 26 16:25:51 Woody4u: what's wrong with the html ? Apr 26 16:26:00 looked at the log ? Apr 26 16:27:45 log shows nothing Apr 26 16:28:06 html is a div with text in it Apr 26 16:28:20 works via framework Apr 26 16:28:25 not via ares Apr 26 16:29:46 interesting thing is it works in ares and in browser but not on device Apr 26 16:37:26 Does anyone know of a way to apply patches to the emulator? It returns "An error occured while attempting to run /tmp/scriptFile.sh" when I try Apr 26 16:38:02 CTLAdvance: that's weird indeed Apr 26 16:38:15 what isn't working exactly ? Apr 26 16:40:36 apparently an HTML object doesnt show the html Apr 26 16:40:40 I added a header Apr 26 16:40:46 that works fine Apr 26 16:44:02 html object works in ares, in browser, but not on device, this is interesting let me check this Apr 26 16:49:35 Hey guys anyone here have an active WoW subscription. I need to reply to something on their forums but it's in a account restricted area (since I don't play the game I need you to be nice enough to forward a message). Apr 26 16:49:57 Has to do with the WoW Armory app for the Pre. Apr 26 16:56:38 * Templarian thinks he may just go annoy one of the IT at work sure one of them has a sub. Pretty sure there was a WoW icon on that nexus one the other day. Apr 26 16:58:46 Templarian: I deactivated and snapped my cds sorry mate ;) Apr 26 17:04:12 Woody - how do you select main if other objects are in from of it Apr 26 17:05:11 Woody - how do you select main if other objects are in from of it Apr 26 17:08:10 this is wierd Apr 26 17:08:13 its working now Apr 26 17:08:17 omfg Apr 26 17:08:17 :) Apr 26 17:09:26 yay! my pre was given to DHL Apr 26 17:09:34 will most likely arrive tomorrow :) Apr 26 17:09:51 cg Apr 26 17:09:58 grats Apr 26 17:11:56 :D http://drp.ly/TdE55 thanks Apr 26 17:12:11 Does anyone know why I can't install patches to the emulator? Lsdiff and gnu patch are returning syntax errors. Apr 26 17:12:16 maybe i want to buy the pre plus in the nex time and gift my old pre to my mother :D Apr 26 17:12:23 I'll spend some time playing with it, getting a feel for the thing while I do something else. Apr 26 17:12:36 kirbz, the emulator is x86 arch Apr 26 17:12:48 and the binaries are compiled for arm Apr 26 17:13:08 Woody4u: thanks - so all developers test their patches on their own devices? Apr 26 17:13:34 kirbz, yes and no Apr 26 17:13:54 own deivce or they compile it for both arches Apr 26 17:14:02 ahh, I see Apr 26 17:14:13 thank you for letting me know :) Apr 26 17:14:41 patches are for the js apps and they "hack" the apps and this is also possibile in the emulator Apr 26 17:15:07 but aplling the pathces with lsdiff is only possibil on the device Apr 26 17:15:23 OR you install the x86 bin of lsdiff Apr 26 17:17:03 got it - at least I know why it's failing now Apr 26 17:17:03 thanks Apr 26 17:18:44 kirbz: it's okay, probably for the best. Apr 26 17:19:11 Templarian: definitely for the best :) Apr 26 17:42:25 hehehe Apr 26 17:42:45 the plus is on wifi apparently Apr 26 17:58:54 morning, all. Apr 26 18:00:57 hey chuck Apr 26 18:01:02 err... Apr 26 18:01:03 chuq Apr 26 18:01:21 grrr with my mind speaking through the keys Apr 26 18:47:46 morning chuqui Apr 26 19:07:31 20' ago, my Pre was in Marseille, France. Apr 26 19:07:41 package tracking is gadget lust fuel. Apr 26 19:41:51 So, I am sucking at something. I can't seem to get the download service to work when in 1x Apr 26 19:42:31 any been able to make that work? It seems to work for other things like the browser... (I haven't tried the app catalog... probably should) Apr 26 19:44:50 Do you think of yourself as prestige material> then take a look at this app http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.ctladvance.isfr Apr 26 19:45:06 ;) enjoy Apr 26 19:46:10 good afternoon everyone Apr 26 19:46:22 or whatever it is in your locale Apr 26 19:47:43 hmmm yep, afternoon here too. Apr 26 20:33:33 Hey guys, do you know where the documentation/examples are for a split command button (kind of like the buttons on the bottom of the App Catalog? Apr 26 20:37:04 yes, we do know. Apr 26 20:37:40 https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1994&Itemid=328#.viewMenu Apr 26 20:37:58 they're called menus. They're NOT menus, but that's what they're called. Apr 26 20:39:18 catalystmedia was that what you wanted? Apr 26 20:39:57 Rick_work. Yeah I think that is! Thank you so much Apr 26 20:40:21 view menus go at the bottom of the screen. Command menus go at the top. Apr 26 21:01:01 Thank you very much. That's definitely helpful :) Apr 26 21:01:36 Though that does seem opposite. They should consider changing that so view menu are at the top and command menus are at the bottom. Make more sense to me at least Apr 26 21:04:36 not going to change it now, thousands of mojo apps.... Apr 26 21:07:05 hello all.. Apr 26 21:08:07 hi Apr 26 21:10:31 I have a basic mojo question, maybe someone can help me? Apr 26 21:12:36 anyone? Apr 26 21:15:17 question away midtown0089 Apr 26 21:17:20 ok, if I am in one scene, lets say FirstAssistant, but I have a another scene SecondAssistant, how do I reference objects located on the Second from within the First? Apr 26 21:18:38 How do I call methods of some scene from another scene? Apr 26 21:19:28 I am not sure. I think they are out of scope. If you have values in the first scene, you need to pass those values to the second scene. Apr 26 21:19:53 However, I think there is a way to get any of the scenes... I think the stageManager does that Apr 26 21:21:04 Look at this.controller.getStageController Apr 26 21:22:52 ok, so this.controller.getStageController.....whatelse, to reference FirstAssistant objects and methods? Apr 26 21:24:59 midtown are the two scenes in seperate stages so that they are two cards open at once, or have you pushed one card on top of another. if the former, it CAN be done. if the latter, it can't. Apr 26 21:25:10 out for 4 hours. Apr 26 21:25:40 let's assume I am not readu to push the second scene, but would like to call methods that are located in the second scene. Apr 26 21:25:50 nope. Apr 26 21:26:03 the object doesn't exist until it is pushed. Apr 26 21:26:25 I see... Apr 26 21:26:43 Better to create a model class that handles outside stuff. Cause then you can create a global object that everything has access to. Apr 26 21:27:32 and that would be the classCreate? Apr 26 21:30:44 yah. like : var MyClass = Class.create({ foo : function() { do stuff; }, bar : function() { other stuff; }}); var globalMyClass = new MyClass(); Apr 26 21:31:15 put it in your sources. and it will automatically make an object everything can see (globalMyClass) Apr 26 21:36:18 got it. now, from within that class will I be able to reference the objects in the other scenes, let's say I want to do a this.controller.get() from the class model, what syntax should be used to to reference let say FirstScene's objects? Apr 26 21:37:50 how do I make the 'this' point to FirstScene Apr 26 21:40:29 you cant. The point is the stuff in the firstScene is generally only available in the firstScene. So anything that you want to have available in both scenes should be in your models instead. So you put them all there, and then you can get to the from the first scene or the second scene. Put values in the models. Put functions in there. Anything. Then you can update the values in the first scene, and see the new values in the second. Apr 26 21:42:21 ok, I got it.Thank you. Apr 26 22:47:16 * haeffb is pondering how to handle notifications in a todo app. Apr 26 23:05:00 rehi Apr 26 23:05:21 swisstomcat Apr 26 23:05:25 flying again? Apr 26 23:05:30 hey haeffb Apr 26 23:05:50 not yet Apr 26 23:05:54 my flight goes tomorrow Apr 26 23:54:30 man, blackberry app sucks, charges you $200 up front Apr 26 23:55:20 webos development is so much nicer Apr 26 23:55:50 well, i was gona release my palm app on blackberry Apr 26 23:55:57 just have a web portal for the web version Apr 26 23:56:02 but i m not gona pay $200 Apr 26 23:56:08 i am not even charging for the app -_- Apr 26 23:57:53 lemketron: how's uber-kernel treating you? Apr 26 23:58:54 heh, nice rwhitby Apr 26 23:59:14 uber-kernel is brilliant as is govnah Apr 27 00:13:21 * lemketron wonders how rwhitby knows who might or might not be running certain kernels... ;-) Apr 27 00:13:47 lemketron: I have an army of spies ;) Apr 27 00:13:55 does it phone home? ;-) Apr 27 00:14:05 lemketron: only through uploadd ;) Apr 27 00:14:13 oof Apr 27 00:14:42 so you guys actually know exactly who is running uber-kernel, whereas I have to get information second-hand ;) Apr 27 00:14:47 heh, I'm not actually sure that's true, but it probably should Apr 27 00:15:14 a virtual "warranty void if removed" sticker :-) Apr 27 00:15:36 lemketron: package list and dmesg would capture it, as would starts and stops of govnah Apr 27 00:15:36 "no user-serviceable parts inside" Apr 27 00:16:18 when does it graduate from testing to stable? :-) Apr 27 00:16:33 lemketron: yes, we're intentionally making it very easy for Palm to see if someone is running a custom kernel, not only for warranty purposes, but also to enable you guys to filter out crash reports and stuff. Apr 27 00:16:52 hey lemketron Apr 27 00:17:11 hey Apr 27 00:17:13 lemketron: I'd like to get temperature-controlled descaling into the service before going to stable Apr 27 00:17:47 rwhitby: is that when you'll have the govnah keep changes after reboot? Apr 27 00:18:42 Tibfib: well, I'd like to have a fail-safe on that too - e.g. if the last reboot was from a hang, it automatically refuses to re-apply persistent settings Apr 27 00:19:03 i planted many swiss chocolate bars inside palm with embedded microphones ;) Apr 27 00:19:09 better to have a stock speed device, rather than one you have to doctor Apr 27 00:19:16 very true Apr 27 00:20:05 who is doing the mojo for govnah? oil? Apr 27 00:20:07 that's better (in chocolate anyway) than the other kind of "bugs" Apr 27 00:20:51 hehe Apr 27 00:21:25 Tibfib: I package the kernel (which includes patches from uNiXpSyChO, ka6sox, bromwich and myself), I do the C service, and oil (99%) and I (1%) do the Mojo. then I package it all up for easy installation. Apr 27 00:21:32 * haeffb having trouble figuring out how to pass a callback function from a scene to a dashboard stage. Apr 27 00:22:15 rwhitby: Very impressive app, both the back-end and govnah ui. Apr 27 00:22:41 I feel much more secure using it than super pre kernel ;) Apr 27 00:22:54 Tibfib: it's the lack of chrome I expect Apr 27 00:23:20 ay, that it is Apr 27 00:24:31 chrome makes EVERYTHING better! Apr 27 00:24:41 chrome car, chrome house, chrome phone Apr 27 00:25:24 oh rwhitby, someone sent me an email for save/restore because you listed me as a maintainer... I told him I had almost nothing to do with it... so here's the email. Do what you wish with it. "Would it be possible for you to add support for Outline Tracker (id: com.outlinetracker.outlinetracker) and Outline Tracker Free (id: com.outlinetracker.outlinetrackerfree) ? All the data for each app is stored in two SQLite databases." Apr 27 00:25:34 maybe i should have /msg that...heh Apr 27 00:25:50 Tibfib: where did I dob you in as a maintainer? Apr 27 00:25:53 * halfhalo-T400 has gotten his app to patch the doctor to bypass first run.... Apr 27 00:26:07 rwhitby: the wiki Apr 27 00:28:00 * zsoc notes wiki's are user editable Apr 27 00:28:10 lies Apr 27 00:36:47 zsoc: but I like getting credit for stuff I barely help with Apr 27 00:37:59 holy cow... load average 36+??? Apr 27 00:38:42 ? Apr 27 00:38:50 Thats almost over 9000! Apr 27 00:39:00 * halfhalo-T400 regrets saying that almost immediatly Apr 27 00:39:07 * zsoc agrees Apr 27 00:39:44 * lemketron misses the reference to 9000 Apr 27 00:40:09 http://www.pastie.org/936506 Apr 27 00:40:09 syncCallback is never passed to the handleLaunch... Apr 27 00:41:42 I really should make an option that cleans out all the files for a fresh start Apr 27 00:43:02 halfhalo-T400: what are you working on now? Apr 27 00:43:21 python mini metadoctor Apr 27 00:44:02 heh why? Apr 27 00:44:50 because I'm lazy and want to make a deb that autodoes metadoctor and also so it can be packages as a mini vm for othes to do easily Apr 27 00:45:17 nice Apr 27 00:45:36 arg Apr 27 00:45:52 my plan of copypasta-ing part of the makefile has failed Apr 27 00:46:34 * haeffb gives up for the evening. Apr 27 00:50:48 * Tibfib is switching from komodo to good 'ol notepad++ Apr 27 00:54:06 ugg Apr 27 00:54:27 me, too. Apr 27 00:54:36 best way to handle vertical centering for a subelement in a list row? padding or margin? Apr 27 00:55:04 i suck at css Apr 27 00:55:12 im gonna stop trying Apr 27 00:55:13 me, too Apr 27 00:55:38 what's sad is i think ive read every css book/doc that's been published since 1999 Apr 27 00:55:52 and yet..... Apr 27 00:57:12 I suck at css as well Apr 27 00:59:16 developer day slides have been posted on developer.palm.com Apr 27 01:00:32 cool - any video? Apr 27 01:00:40 nvmd - im goin Apr 27 01:01:01 hahahaha - my css Apr 27 01:01:03 wow Apr 27 01:03:07 rockstar graphics with html5 is recommended Apr 27 01:03:17 not video yet, just slides Apr 27 01:31:05 grrrrrrr Apr 27 01:31:52 any way to see the default css of the list row elements? like the title or label? Apr 27 01:32:10 i'd just like to see how that is set up Apr 27 01:32:34 BigBiff: check out the inspector Apr 27 01:32:51 it comes with the sdk... make sure you launch an app to be ready for inspection Apr 27 01:33:19 heh - i dont think ive ever used the inspector - i'll check it out Apr 27 01:33:42 I hadn't until a few weeks ago Apr 27 01:33:43 it's nice Apr 27 01:34:28 command line to inspect? Apr 27 01:34:43 not sure ... been using komodo to do it Apr 27 01:35:15 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1611&Itemid=61 Apr 27 01:35:17 found it Apr 27 01:37:40 got it goin - thx Tibfib Apr 27 01:41:11 holy hell - why have i not been using this!?!? Apr 27 01:41:17 i think i may cry Apr 27 01:41:41 killer Apr 27 01:41:47 yeah it's great! Apr 27 01:42:06 palm has a lot of great developer tools out there, people just don't know about em Apr 27 01:42:42 i remember in an early tutorial using it or something like it for battery consumption Apr 27 01:42:48 on like 'hello world' or something Apr 27 01:43:00 i had no idea all the styles were right there Apr 27 01:43:32 this will save me hours of trial and error Apr 27 01:55:17 are this.variables accessible in any function in an assistant, regardless of where in the assistant are created? Apr 27 01:56:48 yes Apr 27 01:57:03 zsoc Apr 27 01:57:31 haeffb: wha Apr 27 01:57:47 malwarebytes did not solve the problem. Apr 27 01:58:02 haeffb: what is the problem? Apr 27 01:58:40 ave.exe infection Apr 27 01:59:09 haeffb: run malwarebyes in safemode? Apr 27 01:59:56 zsoc: throw the 6-year old Compaq in the trash and get them a new one? Apr 27 02:00:12 haeffb: http://www.malwarehelp.org/ave-exe-a-multiple-rogues-in-one-trojan-fakerean-2010.html Apr 27 02:00:17 you can try some manual removal Apr 27 02:00:29 or yeah, give it me as a linux box Apr 27 02:04:32 woooohooooooo Apr 27 02:04:39 tibfib: you rock Apr 27 02:05:08 heh. inspector helped you? Apr 27 02:05:12 omg Apr 27 02:11:29 why can I not send a callback function from sceneAssistant thru handleLaunch to a dashboard? http://www.pastie.org/936506 syncCallback never comes thru in launchParams Apr 27 02:16:43 hi all Apr 27 02:17:23 howdy JenP Apr 27 02:17:32 hi Tibfib Apr 27 02:22:26 wait Apr 27 02:22:36 if i make changes in js on device.. do i need to restart luna? or can i just restart the app? Apr 27 02:23:34 zsoc: like changes to the app's js files? Apr 27 02:23:41 or to the pre files itself/ Apr 27 02:23:41 right Apr 27 02:23:45 no just an apps file Apr 27 02:23:52 restart the app then Apr 27 02:24:08 You should see the changes Apr 27 02:24:16 yeah i wasn't.. hmmm Apr 27 02:24:37 hello everyone Apr 27 02:25:30 LoneStar99: howdy Apr 27 02:26:28 hallo Tibfib Apr 27 02:27:14 ordered some silly putty for my little sister today, anyone know it was invented at GE Apr 27 02:27:58 kinda "silly" invention for GE Apr 27 02:28:46 /rimshot Apr 27 02:29:22 so would the best way to do security verification for an app be thru the pdk? Apr 27 02:30:50 Tibfib: what sort of security verification? Apr 27 02:31:04 probably just a string to send to my server Apr 27 02:31:17 haven't decided yet Apr 27 02:33:01 how secure does it have to be, can u you base64_encode. ? Apr 27 02:34:21 It's not life-threatening... but someone could delete all user accounts for my chat application if they knew it Apr 27 02:34:28 So i'm thinking not bas64 Apr 27 02:35:03 * halfhalo-T400 now has a goal Apr 27 02:35:09 :P Apr 27 02:35:13 for every user account "user" "password" create a md5 string Apr 27 02:35:35 plus encode password with md5 Apr 27 02:35:50 sorry encrypt Apr 27 02:35:57 hash Apr 27 02:36:00 and why the hell are you letting users anywhere near the db. Abstract it out and have a permissions layer inbetween Apr 27 02:36:26 halfhalo-T400: all in good time mate Apr 27 02:38:52 it seems like a fundamental design flaw to not have it Apr 27 02:41:37 well my app isn't public, so it's not hurting anything Apr 27 02:46:03 Tibfib: send a querystring like "user=silly&pass=1f3870be274f6c49b3e31a0c6728957f&confirm=a3470ce826283eca7ce3360d0f26b230" Apr 27 02:47:47 now what is confirm? a hash of what? Apr 27 02:48:20 hash Apr 27 02:49:22 confirm = timestamp converted into md5 hash at time of registration of "unique" username or email Apr 27 02:50:07 nice idea, that would work well until I can get full on security working Apr 27 02:52:07 Tibfib: it would be a plus if the user would provide email, so if he/ she loses password, you email user to unique email which matches the "confirm" of the user Apr 27 02:53:46 I have it on the registration page already :) Apr 27 02:54:21 how would I store the confirm? Apr 27 02:54:28 (locally) Apr 27 02:55:05 as a cookie Apr 27 02:55:36 should I store it as the md5 sum? or as the timestamp Apr 27 02:55:58 hash right? Apr 27 02:56:08 Tibfib: I have a question or two Apr 27 02:56:10 but then the server would need to store the exact "confirm" per user Apr 27 02:56:18 how'd you find out about the com.palm thing? Apr 27 02:56:26 Chriswebos: for what? Apr 27 02:57:05 I thought that was you that responded on the forums...I'm sorry if I'm confused Apr 27 02:57:05 LoneStar99: yeah Apr 27 02:57:12 Chriswebos: oh it was Apr 27 02:57:35 It is in the sdk agreement that you can't sell any applications outside of the catalog Apr 27 02:57:46 catalog/web feed Apr 27 02:58:05 but I thought the web feed wasn't examined Apr 27 02:58:14 it is by a computer Apr 27 02:58:19 it checks for private APIs Apr 27 02:58:29 aka the com.palm apis Apr 27 02:58:31 dagnab it... Apr 27 02:59:11 and there's absolutely no way to get it in the catalog? I know there are some apps that pose as com.palm apps there Apr 27 02:59:32 probably not... you could send chuq an email... but your chances are slim Apr 27 02:59:33 oh, maybe not...i was thinking ap was Apr 27 02:59:44 who's chuq? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 27 02:59:57 2010