**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 28 03:00:14 2010 May 28 03:01:33 how much did it take to makw May 28 06:22:23 Good morgning May 28 06:22:38 *morning May 28 06:56:01 hi May 28 06:56:25 just an update of the beta test link: http://www.metaviewsoft.de/Soccer2010/de.metaviewsoft.soccer2010_0.9.1_all.ipk May 28 06:59:30 MetaView: Bad link May 28 07:02:09 no wonder, I forgot to upload, thx :) May 28 07:02:26 it's deep in the night for you? May 28 07:02:38 wel, I'm off to work May 28 07:02:40 bbl May 28 07:03:18 yeah May 28 07:03:23 dunno why I'm up May 28 07:03:28 g'night then ;) May 28 07:54:17 morning May 28 07:55:12 Good morning May 28 07:55:39 swisstomcat: morning May 28 07:55:48 still awake? May 28 07:55:54 :( May 28 07:56:39 http://webos101.com/ListSelector updated. I had to find out why 'icon' worked in it and wasn't documented anywhere. May 28 08:00:07 swisstomcat: Maybe you can redo the front page of webos101.com since I've been too busy to clean up the mess there. May 28 08:00:09 ;) May 28 08:00:18 heh May 28 08:00:26 thought that's jen's job? May 28 08:03:54 It is, but she's left it in a sort of messy state. May 28 08:04:16 Gotta sleep May 28 08:04:18 101, is it on purpose that you can see the P tags on the hp ? May 28 08:04:29 HotDP: I assume not. May 28 08:04:31 i'll take a look at it May 28 08:04:37 what could be improved May 28 08:04:49 sleep well May 28 08:04:52 It really should be split into two sections: SDK and PDK, I think May 28 08:05:02 Introduction beforehand, maybe. May 28 08:05:16 Dunno. I planned to sketch it out but I've been lazy/overwhelmed/busy. May 28 08:05:31 There's not enough PDK content yet. May 28 08:05:39 sleeping May 28 08:05:46 have good day, swisstomcat May 28 08:06:21 have a good night, roy-pre101 May 28 08:27:43 How do people fell abot Matías Duarte leaving Palm for Google ? May 28 08:35:50 good question May 28 08:53:14 What do you think swisstomcat? May 28 08:54:02 it's good for google, they will get some improved visuals for android May 28 08:54:10 as how bad it's for palm, hard to say May 28 08:54:22 because it's visual style is already done May 28 08:54:30 and very good May 28 08:55:18 I fell the same, he have done a good job at Palm but maybe he is "done" ? the bad thing is that if Android gets to good the competition is getting harder May 28 09:22:12 competition is good May 28 09:22:22 competition and choice drives innovation May 28 09:26:45 Yes May 28 09:43:39 bbl May 28 11:01:21 hi there May 28 11:13:35 hi May 28 12:30:25 hi. how can I dump a var onto screen ? May 28 12:31:02 ? May 28 12:33:11 action script has "trace", php has "var_dump" or "echo"... I'd like some way to easily see the state of a var or info May 28 12:34:42 maybe "console.log" would work... if I had a console May 28 12:41:15 anyone would have a good starting guide to developping for webos ? May 28 12:44:16 I use Ares May 28 12:44:27 and use console.log(); all the time May 28 13:09:47 Famic: Check out webos101.com May 28 13:09:55 (ignore the ugly homepage if it's not fixed yet) May 28 13:10:27 To trace to the screen you can create a div an dump anything you want to it. Or, you can use palm-log to view the log. Which you can write to with Mojo.Log.(error|warn|info) May 28 13:14:53 wow Roy, only 5 hours sleep? May 28 13:19:05 Don't remind me. May 28 13:19:16 thats crazy :) May 28 13:21:25 Roy-Pre101: no offense, but that looks like the same content we get in developer.palm.com May 28 13:22:14 None taken. It's got information not available with the standard docs and is editable. May 28 13:22:15 I'm really new to this, and I'm looking for the next step after "getting started" (that doesn't start much) May 28 13:22:45 I encourage you to highlight stumbling blocks and edit the wiki to answer those questions for the next guy. May 28 13:23:02 I'm familiar with html,css,js,oop... just need some examples to get the logic and UI straight May 28 13:23:33 Famic - Do you use Ares? May 28 13:24:02 HotDP: nope, I began a project locally with the emulator and didn't find out how to import it into ares so I decided to stick to local May 28 13:24:28 Oki, because there is alot of videoes with Ares May 28 13:24:32 You can import to Ares by zipping it and dropping the zip file into Ares. May 28 13:24:52 Of course, you won't be able to take advantage of the GUI designer May 28 13:25:17 The GUI designer is only ava. if you build everything there right? May 28 13:25:37 Famic: I had hope people would redo the getting started page but it doesn't look like anyone's tackled it yet. May 28 13:25:46 is ares worth the trouble ? May 28 13:26:04 It's really not much trouble at all. Add to that the integrated debugging is top notch and it's worth it. May 28 13:26:28 It is a bit different from developing stand-alone but if you're new the you won't notice. May 28 13:26:32 Roy-Pre101: most of the time a simple project helps tackle the basics. "Hello world" is a bit too few to get a grip on how to do things May 28 13:27:01 Agreed. May 28 13:27:26 Ares handles instantiation of widgets so you can get past that if you're interested in just developing. May 28 13:27:58 If you want to see more complete apps then you can browse Github, I think there are some good examples there. May 28 13:28:21 There are good examples for some of the more difficult widgets on webos101.com. May 28 13:28:36 right now I have a scene with a spashscreen and when you click on it you get to a second scene.. I'm wondering how to organise things on it before I make them interactive. Like is it semantic html+css or table layout ? May 28 13:28:38 I use Ares and the "only" thing that confuses me alot it that some code examples that works in eclipse ect. does not work in Ares May 28 13:29:03 The Syntax is different on some things in Ares May 28 13:29:34 Check out.... http://webos101.com/List_Widget_With_Checkbox_Example or http://webos101.com/Getting_JSON_From_An_External_MySQL_Database May 28 13:30:09 I'm working on a little game project so I suppose I won't need many widget May 28 13:30:31 Using Canvas or CSS? May 28 13:30:44 that's what I'd like info about :) May 28 13:30:51 I have no idea what the options are May 28 13:30:57 and how to use them May 28 13:31:09 I suppose css would be easier though May 28 13:31:13 as I'm familiar with it May 28 13:31:29 There are pros and cons May 28 13:31:42 Check the game developer forum in the PDN forums. May 28 13:32:01 http://webos101.com/Game_Development May 28 13:32:50 Hmm, need a link to the forum there. May 28 13:32:59 And I should replace the sample sound class with the newer method of using sounds May 28 13:38:54 Famic: The PDN site is very useful but doesn't always contain accurate info. The Wiki is trying to bridge the gap. Please help make it better. May 28 13:39:55 OK, AFK. May 28 13:41:07 Roy-Pre101: I'll try to, but before I can contribute I need to know a bit about the subject ;) May 28 13:41:42 Take notes! It's easy to forget what was confusing. May 28 13:42:15 The article I tell everyone to read on webos101.com is the Bind article. If you're well versed in Javascript you probably know it already but it might be good to see how it pairs up with the Mojo event listeners. May 28 13:42:37 And with that, I'm afk May 28 13:42:51 Ask anything you want and I'll answer when back if no one else jumps in May 28 13:45:06 morning all May 28 13:45:38 BigBiff, morning May 28 13:50:40 talking about listeners May 28 13:50:57 is there a difference between foo.bind() and foo.bindAsEventListener() May 28 13:51:05 if there is one, what is it ? :) May 28 14:05:53 warpdesign_: I was told there is a difference, but I don't know it May 28 14:06:01 .bindAsEventListener makes event the first argument to the function May 28 14:06:02 I use them interchangably and have no problems at all May 28 14:06:03 morning May 28 14:06:08 oic May 28 14:06:25 nolonger going to use those interchangably May 28 14:06:57 anyone know how to disable the scrim on the command menu? it's doing a white-ish alpha and my page is blue... May 28 14:11:08 jettero: add menuClass: 'no-fade' to your attributes May 28 14:12:07 Tibfib: thanks!! May 28 14:16:39 i ve got a problem with simpleGet May 28 14:16:41 hi May 28 14:16:44 http://pastie.org/981849 May 28 14:16:52 some help ? May 28 14:16:54 please :) May 28 14:23:47 bbl May 28 14:36:37 wow, css just eludes me May 28 14:36:47 wow, why? May 28 14:37:00 well, i was just looking at the email app May 28 14:37:28 something that i thought would have been simple - the message view headers May 28 14:38:12 no floats like i thought - everything has neg margins (on both sides) May 28 14:38:21 palm's examples (er, built in apps) aren't very good examples. They tend to be the most complicated monsters ever and often contain very old stuff May 28 14:38:23 just not like i had thought May 28 14:38:40 on the other hand, there aren't really any examples on developer.palm.com May 28 14:39:04 personally, I would do my css the way it makes sense to me. There's certainly more than one way to do it May 28 14:39:45 sure May 28 14:40:09 i was actually just wanting to see the coords on the arrow sprites for next/prev message May 28 14:40:25 (but of course they use no webkit-image) May 28 14:41:13 (url.....) right top no-repeat May 28 14:42:09 .selected ..... right center no-repeat May 28 14:42:58 well enough css for one day - i gotta pack May 28 14:44:12 I just got repacked last night May 28 14:44:21 trying to work up the nerve to go the airport in a couple hours May 28 14:44:34 i wish i was flying May 28 14:45:32 haeffb: what state are you in? i'll make sure i populate the river list for that state before i send May 28 14:45:59 i'm not gonna do all of them until i'm sure it'll be worth it May 28 14:47:17 Mojo.Depot.simpleGet is asynchronous ? May 28 14:47:39 l_a_m: certes, that's why it wants callbacks May 28 14:47:56 ok May 28 14:47:59 jettero: in this http://pastie.org/981849 May 28 14:48:26 jettero: how can i be sure to setup the real value in this.network ? May 28 14:48:34 l_a_m: you realize every time you .bind(this) you make a new dynamic scoped copy of the function? May 28 14:49:11 jettero: sorry ? May 28 14:49:24 l_a_m: you don't do it that way. You can't make a function that queries a repo and returns a value. At best, you ask the depo for the value and have it stick it in this._nets = blarg or something May 28 14:53:01 BigBiff: MO May 28 14:53:57 jettero: new dynamic scoped copy of the function? May 28 14:54:31 var f = function(){}; f = f.bind(this); f = f.bind(this); ... each time you do that you have to make a new copy of the functino with the bound lexicals May 28 14:54:49 you wouldn't normally bind inside a function you intend to call more than once... do it in setup or whatever May 28 14:55:01 probably doesnt' matter very much though May 28 14:56:44 I c May 28 15:10:12 sugardave: what up? May 28 15:10:52 hey not much...had to bounce this machine this morning so getting all my browser tabs re-opened May 28 15:11:19 sugardave: you had questions about the nduid? May 28 15:11:56 HattCzech_work: I think I got it worked out with bpadalino last night...I was hust perusing the back-chat and saw you mentioned that we're not supposed to use nduid May 28 15:12:00 I thought you meant at all May 28 15:12:16 ohhh, no May 28 15:12:21 but what I've come to learn is, don't tie user info to nduid is probably what you mean May 28 15:12:24 meant May 28 15:12:28 yeah May 28 15:12:34 scared me May 28 15:12:36 :O May 28 15:12:58 and i was trying to figure out a way to recognize users (as you mentioned for download purposes) May 28 15:13:16 but i wasn't sure if i was supposed to use the nduid May 28 15:13:18 nduid should be alright, I use it as a download counter basically May 28 15:13:26 "unique endpoints" May 28 15:13:42 er, install counter May 28 15:13:46 okay... because i plan to use it as unique identifiers to remove ads May 28 15:14:01 that works until somebody swaps phones May 28 15:14:32 yeah, which isn't an issue... cuz they'll need to send me the info either way May 28 15:14:47 i don't plan to automatically grab the info... but if they send it to me... i can use it... May 28 15:15:09 so i'm planning to have a menu item for deviceid... and a 'send to developer' May 28 15:15:32 ah, I see...opt-in and get the ads removed May 28 15:15:35 that's cool May 28 15:15:38 yeah May 28 15:15:52 i mean, it's a free app... but i know i don't like ads, either May 28 15:16:01 so if they donate $1, no more ads for them May 28 15:16:20 is donate-ware acceptable now? May 28 15:16:30 :/ ? May 28 15:16:47 I recall there being some verbiage about that in the agreement May 28 15:16:58 hmmm... i'll need to read that again May 28 15:17:18 my rememberance is from almost a year ago, so maybe it's different May 28 15:17:21 what's the problem with that? the app is free... donations just remove ads May 28 15:17:36 Is there a good place to read when you wonna start using localization? May 28 15:18:04 HattCzech_work: I don't know :D May 28 15:18:19 HotDP: haven't worked on it yet, but I know lots of people in here have May 28 15:18:28 * sugardave points at haeffb_pre. May 28 15:18:33 HotDP: i don't know if there's a reference... May 28 15:19:00 hmm, ok. May 28 15:19:12 but you need a resources/(two_letter_lang)_(two_letter_country) folder May 28 15:19:13 "they" say it's really simple May 28 15:19:18 They say its good for the apps.. so i would like to use it on my next app May 28 15:19:24 and then an appinfo.json and a sources.json May 28 15:19:35 Aha May 28 15:19:50 So it should be "simple" ? May 28 15:19:55 yeah May 28 15:20:08 that's all my localization knowledge May 28 15:20:18 Hmm google.. http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1705&Itemid=69 May 28 15:20:23 oops... May 28 15:20:29 strings.json, not sources.json May 28 15:20:32 sry for not using it before asking :S May 28 15:20:41 and the strings.json needs to be UTF-8 in most cases May 28 15:21:10 there ya have it :) May 28 15:21:15 HotDP: you must be the only person in the channel that doesn't use Google first May 28 15:21:35 at least we didn't have to point you there ;) May 28 15:21:38 haha May 28 15:21:41 haha May 28 15:22:32 I tryed "webos translations" and got nothing. Then asked you. While asking i tryed webos localization, wich have result.. May 28 15:22:45 So i would say "half damage" May 28 15:22:51 ;) May 28 15:23:01 thanks anyway May 28 15:24:52 no problem May 28 15:25:04 the UTF-8 thing messsed with me for a while May 28 15:25:15 * sugardave notes that Almaer's horizontal scroller example doesn't set the width of the scroller widget div. May 28 15:25:34 What UTF8 problem? May 28 15:25:44 oh, y'all have no idea what I"m talking about...mixing forum posts and IRC...damn, I need a drink May 28 15:26:15 sugardave: for your counter... May 28 15:26:26 did you have it automatically send the nduid to your server or something? May 28 15:27:12 yep, each time the app starts it tries to contact the cloud and sends nduid, some appInfo stuff and some deviceInfo stuff May 28 15:27:48 technically, you're not supposed to do that ;) May 28 15:27:57 (according to the rules) May 28 15:28:01 yeah, I know....ooops May 28 15:28:04 but i can't find anything about donation-ware May 28 15:28:23 I just need to add a disclaimer in there somewhere and an opt-out feature May 28 15:28:29 hey, that means an app update :D May 28 15:28:37 hehehe, very true May 28 15:28:48 it was an example of "hey, can I do this" turning into "hey, I did this!" May 28 15:29:13 how do you post the data to your cloud? May 28 15:29:42 i was thinking of a php page on my server with arguments passed in May 28 15:29:50 my first system just hits a PHP script and writes everything to mysql May 28 15:30:00 sugardave = big brother May 28 15:30:00 the thing I'm working on now is similar May 28 15:30:30 goes to PHP first, which then does some curling to Drupal forms, then ultimately data is stored in the Drupal db May 28 15:30:42 drupal? May 28 15:30:44 still mysql, but I can integrate with Drupal modules, views, etc. May 28 15:30:52 http://drupal.org May 28 15:30:54 bad-ass CMS May 28 15:31:23 BigBiff: I'm watching you May 28 15:31:35 hehe May 28 15:32:09 i looked through that site a bit, but what's the overall purpose for it? May 28 15:33:01 drupal? it's basically a CMS (blogs, forums, etc.) but can be molded/extended to do pretty much whatever you want it to do May 28 15:33:18 alot of schools use it May 28 15:33:37 it's fun to hack on, for sure May 28 15:33:50 * BigBiff saw it at an inservice May 28 15:34:23 I have a prototype that would enable other webOS devs to register at my site, drop in some js to their sources.json, add an entry for their app and get the counter statistics, etc. May 28 15:34:58 development has stalled on that, but it's probably what I will base my next app counter stuff in May 28 15:35:18 okay, cool May 28 15:36:00 * BigBiff not a php fan May 28 15:36:11 it works if you work it! May 28 15:36:43 i resent having to define any number before manipulating it May 28 15:36:56 as a class type May 28 15:37:07 you can't create matter from void May 28 15:37:34 i havent complained about it in a while, so i thought it was time May 28 15:37:39 heh May 28 15:37:43 1.74-1.64 = 0 May 28 15:37:49 php math May 28 15:37:53 hehe May 28 15:37:56 I thought you got beyond that? May 28 15:38:04 i did but im still bitter May 28 15:38:08 haha May 28 15:38:08 heh May 28 15:38:52 i dont know if you remember me whining about all that but.... May 28 15:39:17 finally someone pointed out that one of mysql fields was a reserved keyword May 28 15:39:35 lame May 28 15:39:39 I hate that shit May 28 15:39:41 'change' May 28 15:39:53 backticks fixed it May 28 15:40:02 that was a tough one to debug May 28 15:41:08 there's some knowledgeable dudes that live on the php channel May 28 15:42:31 javascript creates matter from void May 28 15:43:20 isnt it convenient? May 28 15:43:37 wow i'm just burning this day away May 28 15:43:48 it's okay May 28 15:43:52 it's Friday May 28 15:43:59 i wrote my app to give me more places/opportunity to kayak..... May 28 15:44:10 havent kayaked once since i wrote it May 28 15:44:14 the irony May 28 15:44:53 I wrote my app to break free the shackles of my coroporate oppressors May 28 15:44:57 didn't work May 28 15:45:01 hehe May 28 15:45:14 * BigBiff wonders if the jogstats app author ever jogs May 28 15:45:58 * BigBiff or if haeffb actually has a toodledo acct May 28 15:46:05 hehe May 28 15:46:08 hehe May 28 15:46:56 he does but uses http://www.getitdoneapp.com instead... May 28 15:47:26 on a blackberry no doubt May 28 15:47:29 hmmm, anybody want a Lenovo netbook AND can/wants to pay for online WebSphere (IBM app server) training? May 28 15:47:31 heh May 28 15:48:18 i've got a month to learn the physics of sound - any online training for that? May 28 15:48:31 fresh out May 28 15:48:43 gotta teach it in the fall / write a curiculum before May 28 15:49:04 sounds are waves and exhibit the doppler effect May 28 15:49:08 that's about all I know May 28 15:50:09 i also need to find some some javascript to compute kepler's equations of orbital mechanics May 28 15:50:23 i wanna make a sat tracker app May 28 15:50:39 hmmm May 28 15:51:02 the js is out there, but nobody's published it on the web May 28 15:51:14 at least, i havent found it yet May 28 15:51:14 BigBiff: going all sciency on us May 28 15:51:24 i just like that stuff May 28 15:52:31 the only tracking apps (on any device) just track the space shuttle and a few other objects May 28 15:52:44 i'd like to track all of em May 28 15:52:58 the visible ones anyway May 28 15:53:08 but the math is sick May 28 15:54:19 makes the haversine look like 2+2 May 28 15:54:39 E - e sin(E) = M May 28 15:54:43 piece of cake :D May 28 15:55:02 hehe May 28 15:55:40 i should put that one on the gps webos101 May 28 15:55:49 and then I said, chuqui has got to be the most....oh hi May 28 15:56:25 BigBiff: yes, yes you should May 28 15:57:17 be nice to one handed chuqui May 28 15:57:38 really has nothing to do with webos, you think roy will get upset? May 28 15:58:12 maybe i'll just leave it alone May 28 15:59:09 BigBiff: nah, it's extra information that's nice to have for people wanting to write worthwhile GPS apps May 28 15:59:24 haeffb_pre: chuqui only has one hand? what did you do?! May 28 16:00:02 heh - theres no info at all on the gps pahe May 28 16:00:04 page May 28 16:00:43 you could make it be a tutorial...write your own geocaching application :D May 28 16:01:34 morning, sugardave May 28 16:01:46 what is the size of the available screen ? I've read 320x480 but it seems it's less than that May 28 16:02:01 on a pre I mean May 28 16:02:40 Famic: that's right May 28 16:02:51 Famic: that's about the size of it May 28 16:03:28 chuqui: morning! how goes it in Palm land? any fun and/or exciting things for us? May 28 16:03:43 that might be the size of the screen, but not the avaiable size for an app, as the topbar takes some space too :/ May 28 16:03:57 pretty quiet so far, which is nice. Trying to get a few things done before the holiday May 28 16:04:00 you can get rid of all that - go fullscreen May 28 16:04:05 chuqui: oh yeah...WHY IS MY FORUM SPECIALNESS GONE? May 28 16:04:13 * sugardave is devastated. May 28 16:04:36 i thought today was "everyone on irc gets a free touchstone day" at palm?! May 28 16:04:37 you must not be as active in them as you used to be... May 28 16:05:06 i'll email you my address May 28 16:05:18 that can't be right...I was green the other day, I have posted things since I last saw green, but then last night I'm not green anymore :( May 28 16:05:48 I don't think anyone is May 28 16:05:59 maybe I tweaked the wrong bit. I'll go look. May 28 16:07:16 okay, the green is back... forgot to set the group to be defaul.t May 28 16:07:33 yay! May 28 16:12:12 sorry about that. May 28 16:13:37 chuqui: np, I was hoping it was changes to the forum for things like email notifications on subscribed threads and PMs May 28 16:13:53 email notifications have worked for a while. May 28 16:14:09 oh really? neat May 28 16:16:25 i think i'm going to write an app that turns my Pre into a Portal gun May 28 16:16:29 who's with me? May 28 16:16:51 do it May 28 16:17:29 I've never played that game, but it sounds fun May 28 16:17:41 it's a lot of fun May 28 16:17:56 they were offering it free for a couple of weeks this month, did you miss out? May 28 16:18:43 is this that Valve/Steam thing for PC games? May 28 16:18:48 I don't do that anymore May 28 16:18:57 consoles for me May 28 16:19:27 well, I DO still play FreeCiv from time to time on my laptop May 28 16:19:37 somebody should port that to webOS May 28 16:20:12 oh, well then go buy Orange Box May 28 16:20:20 i picked it up for 360 last weekend May 28 16:20:23 used at GameStop for $19.99 May 28 16:20:54 ah, they do have that for PS3, yeah May 28 16:21:07 not sure May 28 16:21:10 er oh May 28 16:21:26 heh, my brain transposed "they do" to "do they" May 28 16:21:29 I just got Dragon Age: Origin and the last Ratchet and Clank game from gamefly the other day May 28 16:21:34 hehe May 28 16:22:13 i've been thinking about getting Dragon Age as well, but i've got a few others to beat. i also picked up Borderlands (an excellent game so far) and CoD4: Modern Warfare May 28 16:22:32 i had rented MW2 but since i never played the first one i figured i should give it a shot first May 28 16:23:00 Dragon Age is alright....they kind of slacked on the graphics since it's cross-platform May 28 16:23:31 but, it's like a darker Neverwinter Nights May 28 16:25:00 cool May 28 16:28:56 I miss HOMM on my phone :S May 28 17:19:26 hey guys May 28 17:22:01 anything new today? May 28 17:57:47 hey, is there a webos meeting this saturday? May 28 18:08:20 I think its this sunday 30th May 28 18:11:40 sugardave: what was this green forum thing you were referring to earlier? May 28 18:14:55 chuqui: anything going on this weekend at palm? i'll be in SF over the holiday May 28 18:15:36 hi HattCzech_work May 28 18:15:43 hey warpdesign__ May 28 18:16:49 got time for some translation? :D May 28 18:20:54 lol May 28 18:26:08 HattCzech_work: go on May 28 18:27:17 let me pastebin it May 28 18:29:01 http://pastie.org/private/keruynmxpdada8n3tmnuqg May 28 18:29:42 hmmm, wait May 28 18:29:45 i need to update that May 28 18:33:03 new one: http://webos.pastebin.com/7XTXzxCj May 28 18:36:00 do you guys ever experience phantom taps on the screen? every once in a while, my pre plus will randomly launch an app when the launcher is open, or open up some context menu in an app when its just sitting there. no contact from me at all. May 28 18:50:59 hackers May 28 19:03:59 evening May 28 19:06:41 hello May 28 19:06:59 warpdesign__: did you get a chance to look over that link? May 28 19:07:45 not yet May 28 19:07:54 was trying alien breed May 28 19:07:55 :) May 28 19:09:52 heheh May 28 19:13:29 and it rocks btw :) May 28 19:19:34 so supposedly decrementing 'while do' loops are faster than incrementing for loops? May 28 19:21:28 i saw that somebody posted that on optimizing webos scripts May 28 19:21:44 anyone know if this holds true? May 28 19:22:01 hmmm, I don't know why it would make a difference. but I'm not javascript expert. May 28 19:26:10 just wanted to know if i need to change all my loops - i cant imagine it makes that big a difference May 28 19:26:26 but i have seen that noted for php as well May 28 19:29:26 good question May 28 19:29:36 BigBiff: I think that would depend on the javascript interpreter. It could very well be true, but I would imagine that the speed gain is so insignificant that it wouldn't really matter. May 28 19:29:45 i doubt it because javascript is handled by the V8 interpreter/compiler May 28 19:32:04 i've just seen that posted in various forums more than once May 28 19:34:02 what forums? webos related? May 28 19:34:17 no - only one that was webos May 28 19:34:28 by a game app author May 28 19:34:34 dont remember who May 28 19:34:45 swisstomcat: Was it for you that I was testing a page on the Pixi to see if it restarts the device? I can't remember who it was... May 28 19:34:52 yeah May 28 19:34:57 It didn't. May 28 19:35:17 i see May 28 19:35:19 thanks for testing May 28 19:36:39 Was that supposed to be expected behavior or just a random bug? May 28 19:37:37 it seems like a random bug May 28 19:37:41 on one device May 28 19:56:16 warpdesign__: progress? :) May 28 19:56:30 (and not towards destroying aliens) May 28 19:58:32 yeah, got through first mission May 28 19:58:32 :D May 28 19:58:47 hahaha May 28 19:59:42 * HattCzech_work wonders how long it'll take aliens in the way ;) May 28 20:16:33 "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." May 28 20:17:07 heheh May 28 20:17:15 3 is the number thou shalt count May 28 20:28:40 sugardave: have you done any postback from php related to the nduid? May 28 20:31:16 I'm going to say no....mainly because I don't know what you're talking about :P May 28 20:31:37 oh, like send messages back to a particular nduid? May 28 20:31:57 if so, no I have not, but it's a future feature I've been thinking about May 28 20:32:33 yeah, me too May 28 20:32:46 but not based on the nduid, based on the appid,version and timeframe May 28 20:32:47 going to do it for update notifications first May 28 20:33:04 okay May 28 20:33:24 update notifications would be one usage of it May 28 20:33:36 well i'm just wondering if i can do something like http://page.php?nduid=12345 and get a 'true' or 'false' back? May 28 20:33:51 sure May 28 20:33:56 oh yeah May 28 20:34:05 i use php scripts that output json May 28 20:34:14 that is consumed by the apps May 28 20:34:16 same May 28 20:34:25 all my stuff responds back with JSON objects May 28 20:34:32 i haven't done that before... so how would i? May 28 20:34:41 piece of cake, hang on a sec May 28 20:34:49 is that the page contest? just json? May 28 20:35:01 do you have a database with all the nduids? May 28 20:35:18 no, i won't have nduid's until a user submits them to me May 28 20:35:18 yeah, page output is just json May 28 20:35:29 and i'll use that to remove ads for people that have donated May 28 20:36:00 echo json_encode($arrReturn)."\n"; May 28 20:36:01 http://webos101.com/Getting_JSON_From_An_External_MySQL_Database May 28 20:36:12 HattCzech_work: ^^^^ specifically the PHP/Web section May 28 20:36:29 Content-type is important May 28 20:36:55 HattCzech_work: here, http://webos.pastebin.com/xTjSwbQz May 28 20:36:57 enjoy ! May 28 20:37:07 thanks for the link, looking over it now May 28 20:38:10 obviously that example is pretty limited to getting mysql records, but the concept is the same, set content-type, build some PHP object, json_encode it and echo it out May 28 20:38:22 then responseJSON should be all filled in and tidy May 28 20:38:56 yup May 28 20:39:14 it's really pretty slick May 28 20:39:17 I like it a lot May 28 20:39:49 * HattCzech_work taps fingers May 28 20:39:51 excellet May 28 20:40:17 that looks great May 28 20:40:33 now should i just stick with nduid or generate some deviceid? May 28 20:40:47 good question May 28 20:40:55 i use the nduid for my registration May 28 20:41:09 so, it depends on if you care what happens should this person who donated, sell their phone to someone else in the future: May 28 20:41:20 how do you let the original user be ad-free on a new phone? May 28 20:41:34 do you care about the new person sponging the old person's dollar? May 28 20:42:05 if you don't care about either of those things, nduid alone is sufficient May 28 20:42:16 use the nduid and the email of the person May 28 20:42:24 or a hash of both May 28 20:43:14 HattCzech_work: sire :) May 28 20:43:46 but still, this is going to depend on if the old user deletes their apps, etc.....it would be most excellent if we could just query the palm profile and get some uid from that to use May 28 20:44:15 but if the user gets a new device and wants no ads, then i remove the old nduid and add the new one May 28 20:44:38 warpdesign__: thanks! there are a few more words that i'll need for screenshots... May 28 20:44:48 (oh, and appinfo) May 28 20:46:06 HattCzech_work: sure, that's do-able...how are you intending to automate it? May 28 20:46:24 i don't plan to at this point May 28 20:46:34 eventually i will May 28 20:46:36 ah, problem solved May 28 20:46:47 have them register with an email and link that to nduid? May 28 20:47:23 so....does your app hit your cloud looking for a "don't send ads to this phone" type of flag that disables whatever ad Ajax you have set up? May 28 20:47:36 * sugardave is not up-to-date with the lates in webOS ad technology. May 28 20:47:40 sugardave: that's what i plan to do, yes May 28 20:49:00 Bmyers: when they donate, i should have an e-mail address or name... i'll tell them to go into the app and send me their deviceid... (which is being added now) May 28 20:49:01 if you're going to use an email address or hash of the nduid...might as well just have them do a full user ID/password registration instead May 28 20:49:04 that's future-proof May 28 20:49:16 true May 28 20:49:43 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other May 28 20:50:13 yeah, I like the simplicity of nduid only solutions, but this scenario won't work out with just nduid May 28 20:50:14 but then i'll need to get my site a bit nicer :) May 28 20:50:25 for now, i'm just using google sites until i have time to make one May 28 20:50:33 but for the off chance that someone just says "hey use my email address to log in" to avoid ads May 28 20:50:37 HattCzech_work: nope, just do the registration as a dialog in the app, won't even need a "real" page for it May 28 20:50:58 but do i have access to their e-mail address? May 28 20:51:04 ok. going sailing.. c u all l8r May 28 20:51:13 Bmyers: awesome, enjoy! May 28 20:51:17 have fun May 28 20:51:30 HattCzech_work: ok, nop May 28 20:51:34 G&T's always taste better on the boat.. May 28 20:51:48 HattCzech_work: I think he meant the case where someone gives out their email address to everyone else so they can avoid ads May 28 20:51:54 IF you just use email address May 28 20:52:09 warpdesign__: list, mms, sms, text, friends, family, work May 28 20:52:26 yeah, that's why i wanted to use nduid May 28 20:52:39 liste, mms, sms, texte, amis, famille, travail May 28 20:53:06 nduid is always there....nduid + userid/pw, that's more solid and easier to handle device switching, but a minor inconvenience for users May 28 20:53:22 sweet, thanks May 28 20:53:23 nduid + email will also work May 28 20:54:00 okay... without them entering any information... how would that work? May 28 20:54:15 i do registration on the device, name and email May 28 20:54:20 i can get nduid... can i get e-mail address? May 28 20:54:23 nduid is collected when they submit May 28 20:54:33 ah, that isn't going to be possible, I think....unless there is a way to query email address of the logged in profile? May 28 20:54:40 I"m not sure about that one May 28 20:54:43 that May 28 20:54:46 's what i thought May 28 20:54:56 i can manage the backend of donations May 28 20:55:07 (i don't expect there to be too many) May 28 20:55:48 although i may put a text field box and say "please enter the e-mail address you donated with" May 28 20:55:53 then that could make it simpler May 28 20:56:18 yeah May 28 20:56:28 and submit the nduid together with the email May 28 20:56:29 is the donation being handled in the app? May 28 20:56:50 i have a donate link in the help area that links to paypal May 28 20:57:23 ah, okay....I've also been toying with how to deal with PayPal API directly in an app May 28 20:57:37 but haven't gotten close to even starting something yet :D May 28 20:57:37 that would be nice May 28 20:57:41 hehehe May 28 21:01:26 yeah, so i think the text field for e-mail will work best May 28 21:01:36 but for the verification, i'll only use nduid May 28 21:02:00 i'll just say they can have a device for every dollar they donate :) May 28 21:02:22 haha, nice May 28 21:02:30 it's a "bonus" May 28 21:06:32 good night everyone May 28 21:06:35 i mean, it's a free app... and the ads are how i can support my development May 28 21:06:47 so if they want no ads, i think that's reasonable :) May 28 21:07:06 night May 28 21:08:46 ok, the haversine is up on webos 101 May 28 21:09:19 someone may wanna check me for errors May 28 21:11:13 what is haversine? May 28 21:12:24 HattCzech_work: how to compute linear distance on a sphere (i.e. plot the distance between to GPS points) May 28 21:12:26 for gps May 28 21:12:46 http://webos101.com/GpsGetCoords May 28 21:19:46 adios all May 28 21:23:07 oil: wirc timestamp goes from 11:55 AM to 12:00 AM to 12:05 AM... May 28 21:23:19 oilsworkn: you too May 28 21:44:09 haeffb: fix it May 28 21:44:19 lol May 28 21:44:35 can't, I have to write something for RoyPre101 May 28 21:45:09 * haeffb needs to learn how to use git someday May 28 21:46:15 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/wIRC.git;a=blob;f=app/assistants/channel-chat-assistant.js;h=b460956d77fbc681d510cf39d4065edf442b6da1;hb=HEAD#l216 May 28 21:46:35 haeffb: git pull --rebase && git add . && git commit && git push May 28 21:46:43 haeffb: there, now you know how to use git :P May 28 21:46:54 * haeffb taking notes May 28 21:47:41 http://ktown.kde.org/%7Ezrusin/git/git-cheat-sheet-medium.png May 28 21:49:46 oilsworkn: return Mojo.Format.formatDate(item.date), {time: 'short'}); May 28 21:52:04 use that to replace about 40 lines of code May 28 21:58:14 what part of "[14:44] haeffb: fix it" didn't you understand? May 28 21:58:17 :) May 28 21:58:58 Oh. I thought you were talking about my copy. May 28 22:16:05 whats the website again? May 28 22:16:07 cyprek? May 28 22:16:37 hello? May 28 22:24:51 cyrket? May 28 22:26:19 thanks the one, thanks May 28 23:00:34 hey, is it possible to use another app's function without opening another app on webos? May 28 23:00:39 like how you do it on android May 28 23:10:19 yoo May 28 23:11:09 i have 2 questions May 28 23:16:17 alright, maybe more than 2 but i'll just ask anyway May 28 23:18:27 how do i make an app readjust size when theres a notification at the bottom? how do i make text of like a field or area be exported(to like email or something)? how do i stop an app from being able to turn using accelerometer? how do i make it to where i push to a scene, and if i'm at that scene, if i do some stuff like say enter some text, but then go back one scene but then push to that previous scene, go back to what i've done? because right now May 28 23:18:27 it just starts the scene over again May 28 23:31:02 r May 28 23:31:15 ? May 28 23:58:40 catalystmedia: meaning to tell you, I got emoticons to work with your snippet May 29 00:08:59 i dont' get it May 29 00:09:40 i have this May 29 00:10:03 i need to like, make it where it takes text that i type and opens that text in a new email May 29 00:11:20 Jake_M: lemme post a snippet May 29 00:11:44 err, nvm. May 29 00:11:52 just see the services app sample. it has what you need May 29 00:19:52 okie dokie May 29 01:08:03 my app didnt ship. :( May 29 01:08:34 thought 2 days would be enough lead time May 29 01:27:09 * Tibfib hates debugging for hours only to find an accidental capitalization. May 29 01:30:56 ship where? May 29 01:32:13 in the app cat May 29 01:32:20 new ver of GR May 29 01:38:12 :( May 29 01:38:35 Tibfib is not the only one May 29 01:40:09 what r u up to haeffb ? May 29 01:40:24 about to have dinner. May 29 01:40:28 playing with CSS May 29 01:43:06 and by "playing" I mean "getting extremely frustrated with" May 29 01:45:48 ah May 29 01:45:52 fun stuff May 29 01:59:20 haeffb: so basically just another day with CSS May 29 02:22:50 hello all May 29 02:26:32 Anybody know of a way to check the version number of webos? May 29 02:27:06 cat /etc/palm-build-info May 29 02:27:19 from mojo, dunno sorry. May 29 02:27:30 Yeah, need it from mojo May 29 02:27:40 Thers a way May 29 02:27:54 Mojo.eviroment.build or something like that May 29 02:29:19 Let's see here... May 29 02:29:51 There's a DeviceInfo May 29 02:30:32 And a build May 29 02:30:41 its in device info May 29 02:31:18 or buld May 29 02:31:21 cant rememver May 29 02:32:28 yo May 29 02:32:54 these are not them but should be similar "?devid="+response['com.palm.properties.nduid']+"&version="+Mojo.Controller.appInfo.version" May 29 02:33:13 howdy codeslaw May 29 02:33:24 sup May 29 02:34:17 Build gives the framework version. May 29 02:34:40 330 for instance May 29 02:36:40 codeslaw: how is paintr doing? May 29 02:36:48 did u recode with the pdk? May 29 02:36:52 workin on it May 29 02:37:04 right on, cool ass app May 29 02:37:09 thanks May 29 02:37:12 how is that going pdk stuff? May 29 02:37:16 Is it a freebie? May 29 02:37:24 yeah May 29 02:37:26 reality9110: yes May 29 02:37:31 pdk isn't too bad May 29 02:37:42 whats painful is wondering if/when things i need will be supported May 29 02:37:47 LoneStar99: I think halfhalo is closer... it's like Mojo.Environment.Build May 29 02:38:17 yet to begin coding for webos again, been severly slacking, but the pdk seems very interesting May 29 02:38:33 https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1860&Itemid=249#.build May 29 02:38:38 Tibfib: yeah you should be close May 29 02:38:41 lots of possibilites May 29 02:39:09 Mojo.Evironment.build is the correct answer... (maybe, you can't trust the docs) May 29 02:39:25 codeslaw: what pdk stuff are you doing? zsoc is trying to do stuff, but coming up against too much stuff not supported for real non-game pdk apps May 29 02:39:37 Tibfib: that gives the framework version May 29 02:40:19 you mean you want 1.4.1.1? May 29 02:40:22 or the like May 29 02:40:23 codeslaw: the real question to ask yourself is, can i statically link and ship what libs I need May 29 02:40:29 rwhitby: i need hybrid apps to support multitouch May 29 02:40:55 Basically, I'm making the move to the new 1.4.X audio implementation. But, I want backward compatibility for those that haven't upgraded yet May 29 02:40:56 zsoc: according to ben, you can May 29 02:41:07 its in deviceinfo May 29 02:41:11 codeslaw: are you using any non-palm libs, like glib (not glibc) for instance? May 29 02:41:15 codeslaw: no, i mean what libs /i need/, not all libs are statically linkable :) May 29 02:41:21 platformVersion String Full OS version string in the form "Major.Minor.Dot.Sub" May 29 02:41:33 Thank you May 29 02:42:02 codeslaw: you should be able to get multitouch through the 5 SDL joysticks May 29 02:42:08 ah true May 29 02:42:10 There are still people using the initial Sprint release version May 29 02:42:19 codeslaw: hybrid apps supported multitouch doesn't sound good right now... you may want to try an SDL interface like rod suggested May 29 02:42:21 Boggles my mind May 29 02:42:49 rwhitby: the problem is, in hybrid apps pipe all touch events through webkit, which doesn't support it May 29 02:43:01 codeslaw: gotcha May 29 02:43:10 codeslaw: is there a reason your app /has/ to be hybrid? Is it already written? Or do you just prefer mojo widgets? May 29 02:43:28 zsoc: just prefer mojo widgets, i have the interface full built May 29 02:43:35 gotcha :) May 29 02:43:49 codeslaw: is this for Paintr ? May 29 02:44:00 i CAN build an SDL ui, but if you look at the paintr gallery, things like that would be impossibly hard May 29 02:44:04 rwhitby: yep May 29 02:44:07 nice May 29 02:44:23 the answer /could/ be evas... but that might be a little over complicated :) May 29 02:44:45 * zsoc wonders when an e webosesque widget set will start floating around May 29 02:45:25 zsoc: i'm unfamiliar... what is it? May 29 02:46:16 codeslaw: only Paintr Lite available so far? May 29 02:46:25 rwhitby: yes May 29 02:46:49 does anyone have a clue how google voice works? May 29 02:47:23 meaning is there any open source code out there that could do something similar? May 29 02:47:31 reality9110: oh, woops.. does Mojo.Environment.DeviceInfo.platformVersion work? May 29 02:47:53 LoneStar99: asterisk May 29 02:47:55 codeslaw: http://www.enlightenment.org/ May 29 02:48:10 just found a video of it running on a pre! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsAuGSKbVhk May 29 02:48:15 Let me check May 29 02:48:19 rwhitby: PreBX? ;) May 29 02:48:28 rwhitby: yeah have looked into asterisk, but seems overly complicated for a mobile solution May 29 02:48:38 codeslaw: yeah, that's why i brought it up, that was xcomp's work May 29 02:49:02 LoneStar99: there are lighter SIP clients, may even be one in optware May 29 02:49:06 Tibfib: Yes. Works perfectly May 29 02:49:14 * zsoc ,"you have reached my phone, press 1 to leave a voicemail, press 2 to send me a callback text request, press 3 to ring my phone" May 29 02:49:18 rwhitby: guess i meant voice search like on the iphone May 29 02:49:52 zsoc: that has been done before on the OpenMoko phone May 29 02:50:01 rwhitby: not in america :> May 29 02:50:08 call screening ftw May 29 02:50:13 something that analyizes sound and picks the closest text from what is spoken in a microphone May 29 02:50:37 does xcomp come in here? May 29 02:50:46 codeslaw: haven't seen him in forever May 29 02:50:57 i may look into this, it looks promising May 29 02:51:05 LoneStar99: Android does. May 29 02:51:20 I think it's a google service for it May 29 02:52:50 reality9110: yeah trying go find some code that could do something similar May 29 02:54:15 maybe not using the proper search terms to find such code May 29 02:54:47 Well, what you could do is upload the file to an API (if it exists) and pull back the text. May 29 02:56:16 reality9110: the voice file? May 29 02:56:48 Yes May 29 02:59:30 LoneStar99: I was wondering the exact same thing earlier... (how it works) May 29 02:59:42 like 10 years ago was messing with voice technology which you would tell the the computer "browser" and it would open the internet browser **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 29 02:59:57 2010