**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 09 02:59:57 2010
Jun 09 03:00:53 <alexfner> hmm
Jun 09 03:00:59 <alexfner> haven't experienced that
Jun 09 03:01:03 <rick-home> clear buffers and try again.
Jun 09 03:01:04 <alexfner> but I will be uploading one later
Jun 09 03:01:10 <alexfner> will you be up around 2:30 am? :D
Jun 09 03:01:16 <alexfner> I could tell you then
Jun 09 03:01:20 <JenP> how do you clear your buffers?
Jun 09 03:01:29 <rick-home> delete cache in browser
Jun 09 03:05:44 <JenP> nope didn't work
Jun 09 03:11:00 <rick-home> darn.
Jun 09 03:11:05 <rick-home> email chuq.
Jun 09 03:11:21 <JenP> yeah....darn it
Jun 09 03:11:23 <rick-home> and post a problem report in the palm forms.
Jun 09 03:13:14 <JenP> i'm just not sure if it's me and my system
Jun 09 03:14:15 <JenP> rick-home can you try to update reversi and see if it works for you
Jun 09 03:16:32 <rick-home> I can try sure.
Jun 09 03:19:24 <rick-home> paypal verification step takes me to a white screen.
Jun 09 03:19:37 <JenP> ok that's what i got too
Jun 09 03:19:56 <JenP> on the positive delete submission works
Jun 09 03:20:07 <rick-home> so, it's broken.  In your email to chuq, and post, metion both apps as being hung.
Jun 09 03:20:25 <JenP> oh select the app and then select delete
Jun 09 03:21:46 <rick-home> oh wonderful, that finally works
Jun 09 03:21:54 <JenP> i know huh!
Jun 09 03:23:01 <JenP> email has been sent
Jun 09 03:31:11 <JenP> rick-home you still up?
Jun 09 03:31:26 <rick-home> yep
Jun 09 03:31:33 <JenP> i sent you debt free
Jun 09 03:31:40 <rick-home> k
Jun 09 03:31:40 <JenP> i've got a dB working now!
Jun 09 03:32:24 <JenP> i just thought you'd like to see how far i've come
Jun 09 03:32:30 <JenP> and it's all cause of you
Jun 09 03:44:17 <rick-home> hhehehe   thanks Jen
Jun 09 03:44:42 <JenP> seriously...remember when you were talking me through just getting text to show up on screen
Jun 09 03:47:50 <rick-home> Yep. that was an amazingly short time ago, but many many moons ago in your sophistication level.
Jun 09 03:48:01 <rick-home> It's always fun when the student outstrips the teacher in some ways.
Jun 09 03:48:36 <JenP> ha! not the case I still refer to the notes i take from our conversations
Jun 09 04:04:24 <JenP> is there a javascript function to convert Epoch time to easy readable time
Jun 09 04:06:14 <drewp> JenP: new Date(1276056324699).toUTCString() is builtin, but i think some of the common libs have prettier formatters
Jun 09 04:06:27 <JenP> thanks drewp
Jun 09 04:08:45 <BigBiff_> JenP: debt free is your app?
Jun 09 04:08:51 <JenP> yeah
Jun 09 04:09:01 <JenP> you know it?
Jun 09 04:09:17 <BigBiff_> ya, snazzy graphs
Jun 09 04:09:32 <JenP> smiles...cause my bf is a graphic designer
Jun 09 04:10:00 <BigBiff_> heh
Jun 09 04:10:13 <BigBiff_> i need to get me one of those - graphic designer (not bf)
Jun 09 04:10:25 <rick-home> YEAH,  but I thought you stole your graphs from google's pie-graphing api.
Jun 09 04:10:31 <JenP> well he does freelance work
Jun 09 04:10:40 <JenP> my pie is totally from googles api
Jun 09 04:10:41 <rick-home> nodnod and he's quite good.
Jun 09 04:10:49 <JenP> it's the coolest thing in the world
Jun 09 04:11:07 <rick-home> as long as you don't ask him to do girls...  he has "odd" ideas about how graphic images of girls should look.
Jun 09 04:11:24 <rick-home> in that regard he's still solidly 14 years old.
Jun 09 04:11:35 <BigBiff_> cool
Jun 09 04:11:36 <JenP> LOL
Jun 09 04:11:38 <alexfner> silly question time with Dr. Al
Jun 09 04:11:46 <JenP> 14! wow i was thinking 12
Jun 09 04:11:47 <alexfner> can I store a reference by id in a json object?
Jun 09 04:11:57 <BigBiff_> alex: i'm the king of silly questions
Jun 09 04:11:57 <alexfner> for example $('something');
Jun 09 04:12:02 <BigBiff_> dont take that away from me
Jun 09 04:12:09 <alexfner> store that in my json array and have a hardy party?
Jun 09 04:12:44 <alexfner> I don't want to write out all the code, I do know how to do json, I just need to know if this is possible :D
Jun 09 04:12:53 <alexfner> please, oh pretty please!
Jun 09 04:13:16 <rick-home> 12 year olds don't really think abou sex.
Jun 09 04:13:21 <hemna> so it looks like the Mojo.Depot is kind of a pita to use.
Jun 09 04:13:27 <JenP> the ones out here do
Jun 09 04:13:40 <halfhalo> Its california
Jun 09 04:13:46 <halfhalo> what do you expect?
Jun 09 04:14:17 <rick-home> hemna  mojo depot is an absolute bastard child.  Don't use it.  It sucketh.  If cookies won't do your job go straight to sql.  Do not pass go, do not collect $200
Jun 09 04:14:19 <BigBiff_> alex: no clue if it will return the results you want
Jun 09 04:14:42 <hemna> I really don't like the async nature of it.   it's useless
Jun 09 04:15:05 <rick-home> hemna  forgive me,  but bullshit.
Jun 09 04:15:20 <rick-home> you have to embrace async on a phone,  you have absolutely no choice in the matter.
Jun 09 04:15:24 <JenP> drewp: that worked great! thank you
Jun 09 04:15:25 * halfhalo agrees
Jun 09 04:15:26 <rick-home> sql is async too.
Jun 09 04:15:48 <rick-home> and it works fine.  You just have to learn how to WRITE async stuff.
Jun 09 04:16:06 <hemna> yah it kinda blows IMO.
Jun 09 04:16:12 <rick-home> why?
Jun 09 04:16:28 <rick-home> the world is async.  Reality is async.
Jun 09 04:16:35 <hemna> trying to figure out how to build and maintain a dynamic List from storage
Jun 09 04:16:46 <rick-home> nodnod.   and?
Jun 09 04:17:08 <rick-home> how big is your dynamic list?
Jun 09 04:17:17 <hemna> it's small
Jun 09 04:17:20 <rick-home> define small
Jun 09 04:17:28 <hemna> 10 or less
Jun 09 04:17:40 <rick-home> 10 K  or 10 Meg or 10 characters.
Jun 09 04:18:00 <alexfner> so deiwnsa
Jun 09 04:18:03 <hemna> well the # of list items is probably 10 or less
Jun 09 04:18:04 <alexfner> whoops
Jun 09 04:18:16 <alexfner> each finger was on the wrong key
Jun 09 04:18:19 <JenP> oh rick-home! can you explain to me how to make a foreign key work in sql?...when you're done with hemna
Jun 09 04:18:20 <hemna> but each of those items can have about 1k each or so
Jun 09 04:18:28 <rick-home> hemna,  so, let us assume that the list items NAME
Jun 09 04:18:32 <rick-home> ahhhh
Jun 09 04:18:44 <rick-home> ok  so, we're talking about storing 10K of "stuff"
Jun 09 04:19:09 <hemna> I'm fetching the item's data via an external source via ajax.
Jun 09 04:19:20 <halfhalo> ajax is so last week
Jun 09 04:19:23 <hemna> my plan was to stuff the data for each item into the db.   and use that to drive the List
Jun 09 04:19:30 <rick-home> nodnod.
Jun 09 04:19:41 <rick-home> which is what I would do, yes.
Jun 09 04:19:50 <rick-home> so what's the problem?
Jun 09 04:20:05 <BigBiff_> well, does the app update the data upon each launch?
Jun 09 04:20:21 <BigBiff_> and, if so, what's the necessity of storage?
Jun 09 04:20:38 <hemna> I'm hoping no
Jun 09 04:20:44 <BigBiff_> ahh
Jun 09 04:20:49 <hemna> the data doesn't change often
Jun 09 04:20:54 <rick-home> ok
Jun 09 04:20:59 <hemna> METAR information for airports
Jun 09 04:21:07 <hemna> changes every 15 minutes for each airport
Jun 09 04:21:12 <rick-home> right.
Jun 09 04:21:14 <BigBiff_> mine updates upon launch
Jun 09 04:21:36 <rick-home> but you want to update on launch of the app, because it might have been OFF for 15 mintues..  right?
Jun 09 04:21:36 <hemna> yah update on launch, then timers after that
Jun 09 04:21:40 <rick-home> ok
Jun 09 04:21:46 <rick-home> So what's the sql for?
Jun 09 04:21:55 <BigBiff_> my question
Jun 09 04:21:56 <BigBiff_> too
Jun 09 04:22:13 <hemna> store the airport info along w/ the metar
Jun 09 04:22:29 <rick-home> store for what purpose?  Why not just have it in an array?
Jun 09 04:23:19 <hemna> the main List will show just a subset of the airport data, then tap on each item will show a new scene to show the detailed info about the airport, nearby TAF reports, etc
Jun 09 04:23:34 <hemna> all that data comes from the original ajax request about the airport
Jun 09 04:23:40 <rick-home> kk  and you still haven't explained what the sql is for.
Jun 09 04:23:46 <hemna> I'd rather do 1 network fetch and store it
Jun 09 04:23:47 <alexfner> in the sdk, we don't have access to any other protocols besides http, is that correct?
Jun 09 04:23:54 <alexfner> Where were you on the night of the 2nd?
Jun 09 04:24:05 <rick-home> correct as of tonight.  Not correct "soon."
Jun 09 04:24:09 <alexfner> Don't play smart with me mister!
Jun 09 04:24:28 <alexfner> "soon"?  What other protocols am I going to get my hands on?
Jun 09 04:24:42 <rick-home> hemna, what I don't understand is what you're storing it for?  You're not storing the metar...  what are you storing?
Jun 09 04:24:45 <BigBiff_> but, you're still updating the data every 15, right?
Jun 09 04:25:20 <hemna> yah every 15
Jun 09 04:25:34 <BigBiff_> hemna: im in exactly the same boat - but an array of several thousand
Jun 09 04:25:56 <hemna> I'm trying to avoid doing network fetches for data when possible
Jun 09 04:25:59 <rick-home> I mean, honestly if it's only 10K, just hold it in a variable....   you're updating it every 15 minutes anyway.       If it's the list of airports to update, and you want to retrieve THAT from storage when you turn on, store that list as a JSON in a cookie.
Jun 09 04:26:07 <hemna> fetch once every 15 and store the airport info in the db.
Jun 09 04:26:37 <rick-home> we're back to asking you why you're storing the airport info anywhere rather than just stuffing it into an array....
Jun 09 04:26:39 <hemna> I suppose I could just store the list of airports in a cookie
Jun 09 04:26:48 <hemna> and then fetch the data every time, but that's network costly IMO
Jun 09 04:26:57 <hemna> network = battery
Jun 09 04:26:59 <BigBiff_> so the app will be running in the background
Jun 09 04:27:05 <rick-home> but but but   you just TOLD us you have to fetch it anyway.
Jun 09 04:27:30 <hemna> well, not all of the data every time.
Jun 09 04:27:31 <hemna> :P
Jun 09 04:27:32 <hemna> sorry.
Jun 09 04:27:52 <rick-home> ok   WHAT data are you wanting to store?  (not the metar, other stuff) and how big is that?
Jun 09 04:28:11 <BigBiff_> ahhh - the option to cache, then perhaps update synchronously the airports of your choosing?
Jun 09 04:28:24 <hemna> yah it's the other stuff
Jun 09 04:28:31 <sugardave> JenP: ping
Jun 09 04:28:40 <rick-home> ((( Rick bangs his head against the wall and reaches for his copy of "Elementary database structure design and definition.)))
Jun 09 04:28:42 <hemna> it contains geospacial information, runway info, etc. etc
Jun 09 04:28:42 <JenP> sugardave! pong!
Jun 09 04:28:47 <sugardave> JenP: sqlite doesn't do foreign keys
Jun 09 04:28:52 <rick-home> ok, now we're cooking.
Jun 09 04:28:54 <JenP> well that sucks
Jun 09 04:28:54 <sugardave> :(
Jun 09 04:29:01 <JenP> how do i do it then?
Jun 09 04:29:09 <rick-home> sugardave, I sincetely doubt she really needs foreign keys.
Jun 09 04:29:20 <alexfner> so what kind of protocol access is supposed to be coming to webOS?
Jun 09 04:29:22 <rick-home> I think she just needs clever query design.
Jun 09 04:29:24 <alexfner> nay one?
Jun 09 04:29:24 <BigBiff_> so the original launch brings all the data in - then store it
Jun 09 04:29:31 <BigBiff_> and update only pertinent info
Jun 09 04:29:32 <JenP> probably what rick-home saids
Jun 09 04:29:34 <sugardave> JenP: what rick-home said
Jun 09 04:29:39 <sugardave> :)
Jun 09 04:29:39 <JenP> LOL
Jun 09 04:29:40 <JenP> jinx
Jun 09 04:29:48 <rick-home> alexfner  the javascript service protocals will open up "more stuff"
Jun 09 04:29:55 <JenP> ok i will rethink my strategy
Jun 09 04:29:57 <hemna> so I guess a more optimal approach would be to simply store the airports as an array in a cookie.
Jun 09 04:30:04 <alexfner> "more stuff" still over http?
Jun 09 04:30:04 <hemna> fetch the metar upon launch
Jun 09 04:30:15 <rick-home> alexfner  no  "more protocals"
Jun 09 04:30:17 <hemna> then fetch the extra crap when they tap on the airport list item itself
Jun 09 04:30:24 <alexfner> yay!
Jun 09 04:30:39 <rick-home> hemna, why not store the other crap in a simple table db keyed by the airport id?
Jun 09 04:30:52 <hemna> yah
Jun 09 04:30:52 <rick-home> when you want it, execute a sql query.
Jun 09 04:31:09 <hemna> yah that's what I was thinking....after giving up on Depot
Jun 09 04:31:40 <rick-home> or,  execute a query to recover the entire table on lanch and store it in an array so you only do the query ONCE into a global variable and then when you shut down the program you update ONCE -- so you only have two async requests to screw with.
Jun 09 04:31:59 <hemna> yah that's not a bad idea
Jun 09 04:32:10 <rick-home> and while it's RUNNING just hold everhting in an array.
Jun 09 04:32:28 <rick-home> ok Jen dear, what are you trying to accomplish.
Jun 09 04:32:34 <rick-home> You've caused me to get my thinking hat on.
Jun 09 04:33:01 <BigBiff_> rick-home: is it battery intensive holding a large array (1-2megs) in memory ? passing it scene to scene?
Jun 09 04:33:10 <JenP> well i thought it would be neat to store catagories
Jun 09 04:33:24 <JenP> you know personal cards, work cards
Jun 09 04:33:43 <rick-home> nope, especially if you don't pass it.  If you create a global object that holds all that stuff that is owned by your stage controller, then there's no cost at all in battery terms
Jun 09 04:33:43 <JenP> but you're right i can do it all in one table
Jun 09 04:33:53 <sugardave> JenP: one way to do it, make a categories field, then have a JSON string of an array of the category types
Jun 09 04:34:00 <sugardave> ugly, but it works
Jun 09 04:34:10 <BigBiff_> interesting
Jun 09 04:34:45 <rick-home> Jen, tell me the story please.  What are you trying to accomplish?
Jun 09 04:35:17 <JenP> smiles...i don't really know. i think i was just trying to learn new sql stuff
Jun 09 04:35:19 <sugardave> rick-home: sounds like she wants to have a lookup table of categories so that a particular card ID can be associated with one or more categories
Jun 09 04:35:21 <JenP> no real purpase
Jun 09 04:35:42 <JenP> what sugardave saids is right
Jun 09 04:35:45 <rick-home> well, she can certainly do that.
Jun 09 04:36:12 <sugardave> yep yep
Jun 09 04:36:15 <rick-home> she can have a table CATAGORIES with fields cat_name, cat_descr
Jun 09 04:36:38 <JenP> well that's what i have in my stage assistant
Jun 09 04:36:48 <rick-home> and have another table "thingThatHaveCatagories" with fields "thing_name, cat_name, thing_description
Jun 09 04:36:54 <JenP> i just wasn't sure how i could assign a catagory item into the card table
Jun 09 04:37:14 <rick-home> and then, when she wants to add a new thing, she can populate the catagories picklist from a query on the categories table,
Jun 09 04:37:28 <rick-home> but then when you do the insert into the things tbale, you just put the cat name in
Jun 09 04:37:36 <rick-home> but then you can do stuff like
Jun 09 04:37:53 <sugardave> I think the confusion point is how to maintain one card id in the cards table but show that it can belong to more than one category id from the categories table
Jun 09 04:38:22 <rick-home> Select a.thing_name, a.thing_description, b,cat_descr from things a join catagories b on a.cat_name = b.cat_name
Jun 09 04:38:32 <sugardave> my kludgy way means you store an array of category IDs as a JSON string in the 'categories' field of the card table/entry
Jun 09 04:38:41 <rick-home> ooooooooo
Jun 09 04:38:47 <rick-home> I didn't get that part.
Jun 09 04:38:52 * JenP head spins
Jun 09 04:38:58 <rick-home> one thing might have several catagories?
Jun 09 04:39:12 <sugardave> maybe....jenp?
Jun 09 04:39:23 <JenP> no more one catagory will have many things
Jun 09 04:39:44 <rick-home> who cares, you just have a cat_name field in the things table.
Jun 09 04:39:46 <sugardave> but will one card ever belong to more than one category?
Jun 09 04:40:03 <JenP> hmmm i guess so
Jun 09 04:40:08 <JenP> user's always amaze me
Jun 09 04:40:09 <rick-home> ahhhhh
Jun 09 04:40:20 <rick-home> well, that's a horse of an entirely different color.
Jun 09 04:40:25 <sugardave> well, if you don't WANT them to, you make it so they can't :D
Jun 09 04:40:27 <JenP> spotted horse
Jun 09 04:40:36 <rick-home> and the number of categories is variable, right?
Jun 09 04:40:40 <JenP> yeah but then they email you A LOT
Jun 09 04:40:43 <sugardave> I will say it's easier to NOT let the cards belong to more than one category
Jun 09 04:40:46 <JenP> rick yes
Jun 09 04:40:52 <rick-home> much easier sugardave
Jun 09 04:41:26 <rick-home> ok Jen dear, are you going to allow people to delete categories?
Jun 09 04:41:38 <sugardave> JenP: well, consider things like business vs. personal...you shouldn't let someone have a card that is both, no?
Jun 09 04:41:40 <JenP> idk should i?
Jun 09 04:41:47 <JenP> sugardave ture
Jun 09 04:41:50 <JenP> true
Jun 09 04:42:01 <JenP>  but i may have a card that's personal, teen
Jun 09 04:42:05 <rick-home> well, what happens to a person who is in "business"  and you delete business.  where do he go?
Jun 09 04:42:22 <JenP> oh he shouldn't delete it then huh
Jun 09 04:42:35 <rick-home> exacto-mundo.  You have to check first.
Jun 09 04:42:44 <sugardave> app logic will stop a category delete if cards still belong to it
Jun 09 04:42:50 <JenP> oh and what if i have more then one business... and i want to assign a subcatagory...
Jun 09 04:43:01 <JenP> oh dear god this is getting gooey
Jun 09 04:43:07 <sugardave> hehe
Jun 09 04:43:19 <rick-home> JenP  ok, I could have someone who was Family, and someone who was Bowling League, and was Ham Radio Operator and was Concealed Carry person.   all linked to one person.  Right?
Jun 09 04:43:48 <rick-home> ok,  here's how you do that.
Jun 09 04:43:56 <rick-home> The term is "bridging relation table."
Jun 09 04:44:17 <JenP> ok...i'm ready to take notes
Jun 09 04:44:25 <rick-home> Jen,  listen very closely.  This is about to get messy, but I promise that it hase a creamy center.
Jun 09 04:44:40 <JenP> ok...
Jun 09 04:44:42 <rick-home> Imagine you have a table CATEGORIES with cat-name and cat-descr.
Jun 09 04:44:54 <rick-home> and you have a table of people with name and addr and phone.
Jun 09 04:45:00 <rick-home> and you want to assign people to cat's.
Jun 09 04:45:02 <rick-home> right?
Jun 09 04:45:11 <JenP> right
Jun 09 04:45:18 <rick-home> ok, so we make a THIRD TABLE.
Jun 09 04:45:23 <rick-home> which has exactly two fields.
Jun 09 04:45:28 <rick-home> cat-name  and person-name
Jun 09 04:45:47 <rick-home> so,  I can have a record in bridge with cat name ham and person name rick
Jun 09 04:45:51 <rick-home> and family and rick
Jun 09 04:45:55 <rick-home> and golf and rick.
Jun 09 04:45:59 <rick-home> and so forth.
Jun 09 04:46:11 * sugardave recommends IDs instead. :)
Jun 09 04:46:14 <JenP> oh ok
Jun 09 04:46:27 <JenP> got ID's keep it unique right
Jun 09 04:46:34 <rick-home> and when I delete the category golf, ALL I DO is "Delete from bridge where cat-name = golf"  and those relations are gone.
Jun 09 04:46:50 <rick-home> yes, please use ID's instead, but I don't EXPLAIN it with ID's so that it stays understandable.
Jun 09 04:46:55 <rick-home> Does that help?
Jun 09 04:46:56 <sugardave> hehe
Jun 09 04:47:03 <JenP> it does very much
Jun 09 04:47:04 <JenP> thank you
Jun 09 04:47:38 <rick-home> 3 tables   Sugardave's technique would have been a hopeless mess.  Imagine digging through all those json's to find all instances of "golf" and deleting them and updating the records.  Ick ick ick
Jun 09 04:47:51 <sugardave> well yeah
Jun 09 04:47:59 <sugardave> like I said, kludgy :P
Jun 09 04:48:04 <JenP> yeah...well i don't really understand 'json' yet
Jun 09 04:48:12 <rick-home> the other term used for this is "pivot table"  but the problem is that excel uses that term for something entirely different, so I've started using bridge instead.
Jun 09 04:48:51 <JenP> oh! i know pivot tables
Jun 09 04:49:29 <rick-home> which kind?
Jun 09 04:49:38 <JenP> the kind in excel
Jun 09 04:49:41 <JenP> simple ones
Jun 09 04:49:47 <rick-home> yeah,  that has nothing to do with this.
Jun 09 04:49:59 <rick-home> that's why I quite using that term.
Jun 09 04:50:05 <JenP> nodnod
Jun 09 04:50:35 <rick-home> I love setting up four dimensional pivot tables in excel and then rotating them and watching the end user's heads spin.
Jun 09 04:51:00 <JenP> smiles
Jun 09 04:51:20 <sugardave> I have no ide wth a pivot table is
Jun 09 04:51:32 <rick-home> It continues to suprize me, despite my deep understanding of the math, that more-than-half of the people are below average.
Jun 09 04:51:47 <sugardave> haha
Jun 09 04:52:29 <JenP> i strive to make it 'to' below average ...LOL
Jun 09 04:52:57 <halfhalo> bah
Jun 09 04:53:00 <halfhalo> average
Jun 09 04:53:01 <rick-home> sugardave,  if you have a list of ages, states and populations, you can have excel create a cross-tab of the two for you.  Excel calls this a pivot table instead of a cross-tab.  I have no idea why.  I can do sums or averages or other stat stuff with it.
Jun 09 04:53:56 <sugardave> ah, okay
Jun 09 04:54:38 <rick-home> I spent a frustrating half-hour with a sister-in-law the other day proving that it was "more than half" because while there's no upper limit, no one is stupider than zero...  even though there are times I really think that negative intelligence is possible.
Jun 09 04:55:31 <alexfner> I think I'm having some problems folks
Jun 09 04:55:41 <rick-home> so what else is new alex?
Jun 09 04:55:48 <alexfner> dom elements doing random stuff, in a systematic way
Jun 09 04:55:52 <alexfner> well, it's raining
Jun 09 04:55:55 <alexfner> that's new
Jun 09 04:56:09 <sugardave> let's say there are only 5 people in the world.  #3 is average, 1-2 below, 4-5 above....so that's less than half
Jun 09 04:56:11 <rick-home> hmm it quite raining here a couple of hours ago.  You must be east of me.
Jun 09 04:56:17 <sugardave> if six people, then at most exactly half
Jun 09 04:56:28 <alexfner> Michigan.....................'
Jun 09 04:57:41 <alexfner> yous guyses argument is silly, because intelligence isn't a linear distribution, and intelligence is more than just grades folks
Jun 09 04:57:45 <rick-home> sugardave,  if 1 and 2 have intelligences of 90 and 100,  3 has an intelligence of 110, 4 is 120 and 5 is 150, then the average is 114 and 3 of them are below average.
Jun 09 04:57:55 <alexfner> I won't do that again (yous guyses)
Jun 09 04:58:04 <sugardave> well, now don't I look silly?
Jun 09 04:58:13 <codeslaw> heyo
Jun 09 04:58:23 <alexfner> with mayo or miracle whipe?
Jun 09 04:58:31 <alexfner> that is the question
Jun 09 04:58:35 <rick-home> oh miracle whip.  always.
Jun 09 04:58:41 <JenP> neither...mustard...
Jun 09 04:58:47 <rick-home> and yes, alex you're east of me.  (Kansas)
Jun 09 04:58:54 <rick-home> Cole slaw with MUSTARD
Jun 09 04:58:57 <rick-home> ??????
Jun 09 04:58:58 <alexfner> dijon, horseradish, or regular mustard?
Jun 09 04:58:58 <sugardave> no
Jun 09 04:59:02 <sugardave> that's just wrong
Jun 09 04:59:03 <Roy-Pre101> How's everyone today?
Jun 09 04:59:06 <BigBiff_> ouch...Kansas
Jun 09 04:59:10 <alexfner> Roy...
Jun 09 04:59:10 <sugardave> hey Roy-Pre101
Jun 09 04:59:14 <JenP> how about dill mustard...super yummy
Jun 09 04:59:14 <alexfner> I made a mistake!
Jun 09 04:59:17 <alexfner> I can't take it back!
Jun 09 04:59:19 <BigBiff_> hi Roy
Jun 09 04:59:20 <alexfner> it's all been done!
Jun 09 04:59:27 <rick-home> what's wrong with Kansas?   I _like_ Kansas.
Jun 09 04:59:28 <alexfner> dom elements doing their own thing!
Jun 09 04:59:33 <alexfner> Kansas is...
Jun 09 04:59:37 <rick-home> alex, in what way?
Jun 09 04:59:44 <codeslaw> kansas is getting screwed by the rest of the big 12
Jun 09 04:59:44 <sugardave> coleslaw with mustard = wrong
Jun 09 04:59:45 <halfhalo> My app looks sexy right no
Jun 09 04:59:47 <halfhalo> npw
Jun 09 04:59:48 <BigBiff_> heh - i dunno, just remember being bored driving through to colorado
Jun 09 04:59:50 <halfhalo> now
Jun 09 04:59:55 <halfhalo> AND guess what I learned today
Jun 09 05:00:05 <codeslaw> your lesson?
Jun 09 05:00:09 <rick-home> BigBiff_  flyover country.  That's ok, we're happy to see you go.
Jun 09 05:00:11 <halfhalo> The pre's browser supports long polling xhr
Jun 09 05:00:11 <alexfner> just reassigning positions when they shouldn't be
Jun 09 05:00:36 <rick-home> ah
Jun 09 05:00:42 <alexfner> Isn't kansas bible belty?
Jun 09 05:00:43 <rick-home> can't much help you with that.
Jun 09 05:00:50 <BigBiff_> but i do hear topeka is beautiful in the.. well... no i dont
Jun 09 05:00:52 <sugardave> alexfner: just a LITTLE bit
Jun 09 05:00:59 <alexfner> isn't there a creationist museum in Kansas?
Jun 09 05:01:03 <sugardave> I think that's where the Creationist museum is
Jun 09 05:01:06 <rick-home> no, there isn't
Jun 09 05:01:08 <BigBiff_> tennessee is bible belty, sr
Jun 09 05:01:10 <BigBiff_> sir
Jun 09 05:01:10 <sugardave> oh?
Jun 09 05:01:15 <halfhalo> http://silentsight.homelinux.org/client.html -view in safari 5 or chrome
Jun 09 05:01:29 <rick-home> on the other hand, I live four block from Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church.
Jun 09 05:01:34 <rick-home> but everyone here hates them.
Jun 09 05:01:38 <sugardave> THAT'S the crazy I was thinking of
Jun 09 05:01:44 <alexfner> kansas = kentucky, who cares?
Jun 09 05:01:47 <codeslaw> ya, they are effing crazy
Jun 09 05:01:47 <alexfner> :D
Jun 09 05:02:12 <BigBiff_> no alex, alabama=mississippi = who cares
Jun 09 05:02:30 <alexfner> ah I see the error of my ways
Jun 09 05:02:33 <rick-home> there's a very popular bumber sticker here,  in response to Fred's favorite "God Hates Fxxs"  sign.  "God doesn't hate anyone, but he's not FOND of Fred"
Jun 09 05:02:47 <alexfner> Nice!
Jun 09 05:02:48 <BigBiff_> heh, nice
Jun 09 05:03:10 <sugardave> stupid-ass Nightline had a story about Westboro the other night....stop giving attention whores attention, thanks!
Jun 09 05:03:42 <BigBiff_> didnt see it
Jun 09 05:03:47 <alexfner> yeah, well I'm of the opinion that they behave in such a publicized way because that is how they've found to make money
Jun 09 05:04:04 <alexfner> like the pundits of the world, cept theirs is a church
Jun 09 05:04:07 <rick-home> I'm very proud of my hometown in that regard.  It's truely embraced the idea that the solution to evil speech is MORE SPEECH.
Jun 09 05:04:09 <BigBiff_> JenP: aw crap
Jun 09 05:04:12 <BigBiff_> she left
Jun 09 05:04:37 <alexfner> http://creationmuseum.org/whats-here/photo-preview/?utm_source=creation-museum-creation-evolution&utm_medium=Banner&utm_campaign=museum-virtual-tour
Jun 09 05:05:12 <alexfner> it's the truth guise >:D
Jun 09 05:05:52 <rick-home> ok.  Bed time for bonzo.
Jun 09 05:06:34 <sugardave> night
Jun 09 05:51:12 <halfhalo_class> Wahahahahaha!
Jun 09 05:51:18 <halfhalo_class> ITS ALIVE!!!!
Jun 09 05:51:22 <halfhalo_class> ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 09 05:52:08 <halfhalo_class> I need to write a webos interface for it though
Jun 09 05:57:22 <Amaranth> webos supports websocket?
Jun 09 05:57:33 <halfhalo_class> not really
Jun 09 05:57:36 <halfhalo_class> not yet
Jun 09 05:57:51 <halfhalo_class> but it supports xhr long polling
Jun 09 05:57:57 <Amaranth> ah
Jun 09 05:58:09 <Amaranth> too bad you still need to run a server to get on IRC :/
Jun 09 05:58:13 <halfhalo_class> you see the new interface?
Jun 09 05:58:28 <halfhalo_class> http://silentsight.homelinux.org/client.html#
Jun 09 05:59:10 <Amaranth> well that failed
Jun 09 05:59:21 <halfhalo_class> needs to be in chrome or safari 5
Jun 09 05:59:44 <Amaranth> chrome 6.0.422.0
Jun 09 05:59:52 <halfhalo_class> how did it fail?
Jun 09 06:00:19 <Amaranth> I'm typing and in the page it shows I said it but it doesn't show up here
Jun 09 06:00:33 <Amaranth> tried /msg #webos too
Jun 09 06:00:37 <halfhalo_class> click the tab again
Jun 09 06:00:42 <halfhalo_class> oh, der
Jun 09 06:00:50 <halfhalo_class> you need a registered nick for webos
Jun 09 06:00:56 <Amaranth> oh, hahaha
Jun 09 06:01:24 <halfhalo_class> yeah
Jun 09 06:01:27 <Amaranth> Sorry, don't think I'll type my NickServ password in to your server while you've got it in debugging mode :)
Jun 09 06:01:35 <halfhalo_class> yeah, don't
Jun 09 06:02:21 <halfhalo_class> it doesn't log anything but for right now but I have it set to show the message parsing breakdown right now
Jun 09 06:02:42 <Amaranth> Oh, that's a node.js server?
Jun 09 06:02:57 <halfhalo_class> yup
Jun 09 06:03:22 <halfhalo_class> Node.js server with a little irc interface I wrote up quickly
Jun 09 06:03:38 <halfhalo_class> http://github.com/halfhalo/Node.js-IRC/blob/master/irc.js
Jun 09 06:05:15 <halfhalo_class> Thats not been updated to include server support for commands though
Jun 09 06:08:31 <halfhalo> oh snap
Jun 09 06:08:48 * halfhalo adds growl notifications to the server
Jun 09 06:12:53 <swisstomcat> morning
Jun 09 07:13:13 <HotDP> Good morning :)
Jun 09 07:13:52 <swisstomcat> morning hotdp
Jun 09 07:14:32 <hemna> heh goodnight.
Jun 09 07:14:46 <HotDP> All your help last night have done that i did not have time for so much sleet :P coded to 00:10
Jun 09 07:14:54 <HotDP> *sleep
Jun 09 07:25:44 <swisstomcat> very good
Jun 09 07:46:46 <HattCzech> urg
Jun 09 07:47:01 <HattCzech> can someone tell me how to pass a boolean variable to a mysql table?
Jun 09 07:47:16 <HattCzech> (using php, sorry)
Jun 09 07:47:42 <oil> 0 or 1
Jun 09 07:48:07 <HattCzech> in the mysql log it's... value ()... and it should be inbetween the ()
Jun 09 07:48:17 <HattCzech> (for false cases)
Jun 09 07:48:25 <oil> value ()?
Jun 09 07:48:27 <oil> in sql?
Jun 09 07:48:41 <HattCzech> i'm passing a string "value ($bool)"
Jun 09 07:48:53 <HattCzech> in the db i see "value ()"
Jun 09 07:49:43 <HattCzech> true gives me "value (1)"
Jun 09 07:49:46 <oil> lol, i have no clue what you're doing
Jun 09 07:50:08 <HattCzech> hehe :/ oh well
Jun 09 07:50:20 <HattCzech> i need to stop staying up until 3am anyway
Jun 09 07:57:20 <HotDP> Do any use http://www.babylon.com/ ?
Jun 09 08:03:27 <swisstomcat> isn't it 0 for false and 1 for true?
Jun 09 08:04:13 <HotDP> Normal db is like that
Jun 09 08:04:19 <HotDP> when it is bit
Jun 09 08:04:28 <HotDP> 0 = false 1 = true
Jun 09 08:42:19 <warpdesign_> well, i don't think there is bool type for mysql, should be emulated with tinyint(1)
Jun 09 08:42:27 <warpdesign_> so 0 would be false, and 1 would be true to me
Jun 09 08:42:31 <warpdesign_> hi there btw
Jun 09 08:43:11 <swisstomcat> hi warpdesign
Jun 09 08:52:21 <bhuey> This pisses me off that Palm didn't release a new phone on Sprint already after a year
Jun 09 08:52:41 <bhuey> That EVO is looking more and more attractive even though I think that Android sucks
Jun 09 08:55:51 <warpdesign_> bhuey, money...
Jun 09 08:55:56 <swisstomcat> i don't think they will announce anything before July 31st
Jun 09 08:56:10 <warpdesign_> swisstomcat, they won't, for sure
Jun 09 08:56:26 <warpdesign_> sigh.. it may already be too late..
Jun 09 08:56:39 <swisstomcat> you can save your money for later in the summer, bhuey
Jun 09 08:57:03 <warpdesign_> bhuey, why do you think android sucks ?
Jun 09 08:57:17 <swisstomcat> i've heard of such comments too
Jun 09 08:57:31 <swisstomcat> UI polish is not the great yet apparently
Jun 09 08:57:33 <swisstomcat> and consistency
Jun 09 08:57:34 <warpdesign_> well, I don't believe what I hear ,à
Jun 09 08:57:54 <swisstomcat> i'd have to play around a bit on the 2.2 emulator
Jun 09 08:58:59 <warpdesign_> well, from my experience, emulator experience has nothing to do with a real device: better try it on a real device ;)
Jun 09 08:59:06 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 09 08:59:29 <swisstomcat> one samsung device is pretty cheap and runs 2.1
Jun 09 09:04:37 <bhuey> warpdesign_: task killer for one thing
Jun 09 09:05:20 <bhuey> a number of my friend have referred to the UI ans being done by some random X Windows hackers from the 90s
Jun 09 09:05:57 <warpdesign_> funny
Jun 09 09:06:10 <warpdesign_> would be funny to see there's some window server on a mobile phoner
Jun 09 09:06:27 <warpdesign_> on a desktop I already find is ressource hog/useless..
Jun 09 09:06:35 <bhuey> It was a comment about how bad X and Android is as UIs
Jun 09 09:06:54 <bhuey> a lot folks like it
Jun 09 09:07:05 <bhuey> after webos, it's hard
Jun 09 09:07:05 <warpdesign_> but android doesn't use x, does it ?
Jun 09 09:07:12 <bhuey> no something else
Jun 09 09:07:14 <swisstomcat> maybe they don't know anything better
Jun 09 09:07:23 <swisstomcat> if they come from other phones
Jun 09 09:07:34 <swisstomcat> but you can see comments from people that dumped webos and went to android
Jun 09 09:07:44 <swisstomcat> that in comparison the android ui sucks
Jun 09 09:07:56 <bhuey> The current brand of shitty Palm hardware on Sprint just pisses me
Jun 09 09:08:12 <bhuey> with the new iPhone announcement and the 720P capture support...
Jun 09 09:08:12 <swisstomcat> i wouldn't go as far as calling it shitty, but it has some issues
Jun 09 09:08:21 <warpdesign_> hmm.. why did they dump webos for android: that's the question..
Jun 09 09:08:31 <swisstomcat> when did you buy a new phone every year the last time?
Jun 09 09:08:57 <bhuey> this was the first phone under that consideration
Jun 09 09:08:57 <swisstomcat> android: great hardware, ok software webos: ok hardware, great software
Jun 09 09:09:10 <swisstomcat> combine both: winner
Jun 09 09:09:12 <bhuey> swisstomcat: I have an original pre
Jun 09 09:09:25 <warpdesign_> bhuey, what do you think about the hardware of the original pre ?
Jun 09 09:09:48 <bhuey> it was ok for the time
Jun 09 09:10:01 <swisstomcat> i have an orgiginal pre too, just got it replaced because the touchscreen acted up
Jun 09 09:10:09 <bhuey> really substandard now compared to all of the new android platforms
Jun 09 09:10:39 <bhuey> swisstomcat: having a plus model is a real boost
Jun 09 09:10:54 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 09 09:11:07 <swisstomcat> the plus is nicer
Jun 09 09:11:20 <swisstomcat> i think we all agree that new hardware would be nice
Jun 09 09:11:29 <swisstomcat> the question is: when will they announce it
Jun 09 09:11:38 <swisstomcat> the must work on something i'd assume
Jun 09 09:11:42 <warpdesign_> will they announce it ?
Jun 09 09:12:01 <swisstomcat> why not?
Jun 09 09:12:09 <warpdesign_> hp
Jun 09 09:12:42 <swisstomcat> it would be foolish not to
Jun 09 09:12:48 <warpdesign_> foolish ?
Jun 09 09:12:52 <swisstomcat> unless they don't really want webos for smartphones
Jun 09 09:13:04 <warpdesign_> I think they bought palm for the os, not for phones stuff..
Jun 09 09:13:19 <swisstomcat> no clear message there
Jun 09 09:13:21 <swisstomcat> whoa!
Jun 09 09:13:22 <warpdesign_> will they put resources behind smartphone hardware development...
Jun 09 09:13:26 <swisstomcat> PDK Hot Apps
Jun 09 09:13:27 <warpdesign_> that's a question..
Jun 09 09:13:35 <swisstomcat> from july to end of august
Jun 09 09:13:39 <swisstomcat> another 1 million
Jun 09 09:13:40 <warpdesign_> really ?
Jun 09 09:13:42 <warpdesign_> nice
Jun 09 09:13:47 <swisstomcat> http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2085
Jun 09 09:14:13 <warpdesign_> but I'll be on vacations ;)
Jun 09 09:14:30 <warpdesign_> ah, it's pdk
Jun 09 09:15:02 <warpdesign_> he he
Jun 09 09:15:04 <warpdesign_> seen the prices ?
Jun 09 09:15:04 <swisstomcat> when did they announce that?
Jun 09 09:15:07 <warpdesign_> "$1,000 in store credit at hp.com OR an HP ENVY 17"
Jun 09 09:15:12 <swisstomcat> heh
Jun 09 09:15:14 <swisstomcat> really?
Jun 09 09:15:15 <warpdesign_> ;)
Jun 09 09:15:16 <warpdesign_> yeah
Jun 09 09:15:32 <swisstomcat> whoa
Jun 09 09:15:45 <warpdesign_> the envy is nice ;)
Jun 09 09:15:54 <warpdesign_> would be a nice development platform ;)
Jun 09 09:15:59 <swisstomcat> too bad i don't know any c/c++
Jun 09 09:16:49 <bhuey> the announcement will happen after the merger if they have something in the pipes
Jun 09 09:19:42 <swisstomcat> so there is some interest at HP as they are spending $1 Million
Jun 09 09:19:49 <swisstomcat> yes
Jun 09 09:25:27 <warpdesign_> well, there aren't spending any money, they are just giving away some laptops ;)
Jun 09 09:30:28 <swisstomcat> did you see this, hotdp: https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=7445
Jun 09 09:31:21 <HotDP> swisstomcat , no. but thanks for the notification :)
Jun 09 09:31:34 <swisstomcat> your solution is in there
Jun 09 09:31:51 <HotDP> But there is a bug then. Damn evulation :)
Jun 09 09:32:01 <swisstomcat> you can use the workaround
Jun 09 09:32:06 <swisstomcat> until they fix the bug
Jun 09 09:32:45 <HotDP> Yer. do you think i shall erase the JSON data from Ares? Or will it just be overwritten?
Jun 09 09:35:24 <swisstomcat> probably overwritten
Jun 09 09:40:41 <HotDP> roger
Jun 09 11:32:55 <Bmyers> warpdesign_: emailed you back. can you detail the crash? you get nothing at all? or just spinning scrim?
Jun 09 12:27:37 <warpdesign_> Bmyers: just the spinning stuff
Jun 09 12:27:54 <warpdesign_> I mean: the app icon is displayed, and that's it
Jun 09 12:28:00 <warpdesign_> I guess it's crashing at startup
Jun 09 12:28:02 <Bmyers> even with the version i just sent?
Jun 09 12:28:07 <warpdesign_> didn't try
Jun 09 12:28:13 <warpdesign_> will try when i'm back home ;)
Jun 09 12:28:42 <Bmyers> ok. thanks. spinning means it never got a response back from the server
Jun 09 12:31:48 <warpdesign_> no
Jun 09 12:31:53 <warpdesign_> I mean the app doesn't load
Jun 09 12:32:07 <warpdesign_> it crashes when displaying your app's icon
Jun 09 12:32:12 <warpdesign_> it never gets to the main scene
Jun 09 12:36:54 <swisstomcat> maybe a localization problem
Jun 09 12:37:03 <swisstomcat> the json parses is very finnicky
Jun 09 12:37:20 <swisstomcat> about missing commas for example
Jun 09 12:39:52 <Bmyers> well it runs on my emu set to fr_fr
Jun 09 12:40:13 <Bmyers> but it does "check in" with my server. even at the start
Jun 09 12:40:27 <swisstomcat> and you you have a string.json for french?
Jun 09 12:40:39 <Bmyers> yes
Jun 09 12:40:55 <swisstomcat> paste it into jsonlint.com to be sure
Jun 09 12:42:00 <swisstomcat> otherwise it might be a timeout when checking in with your server
Jun 09 12:47:42 <warpdesign_> swisstomcat, yes, must be a translation problem
Jun 09 12:47:48 <warpdesign_> but log didn't return anything
Jun 09 12:47:58 <warpdesign_> and I didn't have time to do more digging into the issue
Jun 09 12:48:34 <swisstomcat> i usually paste strings.json into jsonlint.com to see if the problem is there
Jun 09 12:51:45 <Bmyers> i have lint built into komodoedit. let me see what it says
Jun 09 13:02:19 <warpdesign_> hmm.. this may be an id that has changed into some html view as well
Jun 09 13:02:27 <warpdesign_> if this is the case you won't get an error
Jun 09 13:02:45 <warpdesign_> but some listen() may fail because get('foo') doesn't work
Jun 09 13:14:17 <HattCzech_ork> morning all
Jun 09 13:15:34 <HattCzech_ork> swisstomcat: think you might have some time for translation this morning?
Jun 09 13:17:38 <swisstomcat> hattczech: new app?
Jun 09 13:17:57 <HattCzech_work> nope, just add on to the current one
Jun 09 13:18:14 <HattCzech_work> related to donations... which i think will finally work :)
Jun 09 13:18:29 <HattCzech_work> until my server crashes :) haha
Jun 09 13:22:19 <HattCzech_work> Famic: think you might have some time for some translation?
Jun 09 13:25:49 <swisstomcat> sure, i can add some german words
Jun 09 13:26:08 <HattCzech_work> i'm getting the strings together now
Jun 09 13:57:59 <HattCzech_work> okay, pastebinning now
Jun 09 13:59:39 <HattCzech_work> http://webos.pastebin.com/EQ89epn3
Jun 09 13:59:57 <swisstomcat> k
Jun 09 14:04:59 <swisstomcat> http://webos.pastebin.com/P87bxxEd
Jun 09 14:05:19 <swisstomcat> not sure about "registerDialog"
Jun 09 14:07:47 <HattCzech_work> that's a key
Jun 09 14:07:53 <HattCzech_work> so no need to translate :)
Jun 09 14:08:08 <swisstomcat> i mean the text behind it
Jun 09 14:08:15 <swisstomcat> i hope i translated it correctly
Jun 09 14:08:26 <swisstomcat> send me the app when you integrate the new german text so i can check
Jun 09 14:10:04 <HattCzech_work> gotcha... will be building it soon
Jun 09 14:12:40 <Famic> anyone knows what "Tax Identification Number" and "Registered for VAT/GST" mean for Non US Taxpayers when creating a dev account ? o_O
Jun 09 14:14:15 <warpdesign_> "Palm loses webOS notifications architect to Apple"
Jun 09 14:15:35 <HattCzech_work> warpdesign_: that's no bueno
Jun 09 14:16:02 <HattCzech_work> Famic: i only know what that means for US taxpayers
Jun 09 14:17:16 <swisstomcat> http://www.precentral.net/father-webos-notifications-leaves-apple
Jun 09 14:17:22 <swisstomcat> yesterdays news :)
Jun 09 14:18:29 <HotDP> but bad news
Jun 09 14:18:54 <swisstomcat> hard to say
Jun 09 14:19:01 <swisstomcat> read the precentral comments for the article
Jun 09 14:21:02 <warpdesign_> HattCzech_work, yeah, no bueno at all..
Jun 09 14:24:15 <BigBiff> hey guys i have a basic js question
Jun 09 14:24:28 <HattCzech_work> go for it, BigBiff
Jun 09 14:24:46 <BigBiff> scenario - iterating through array to find items with x value
Jun 09 14:25:40 <BigBiff> if x value, array.push(bla) - if y yalue diffarray.push(bla)
Jun 09 14:25:50 <BigBiff> this can be done in one pass right?
Jun 09 14:26:14 <BigBiff> but with multiple values pushing in, say 50 different arrays
Jun 09 14:26:57 <BigBiff> or does it take 50 different iterations
Jun 09 14:29:49 <BigBiff> too dumb a question?
Jun 09 14:30:49 <haeffb_pre> switch (value) {
Jun 09 14:30:57 <haeffb_pre> case x:
Jun 09 14:31:23 <haeffb_pre> theArray = array;
Jun 09 14:31:28 <haeffb_pre> break;
Jun 09 14:31:33 <haeffb_pre> case y:
Jun 09 14:31:58 <haeffb_pre> theArray = diffarraym
Jun 09 14:32:00 <BigBiff> i guess the question is: once the device 'reads' through a member of the array, does it forget that member completely?
Jun 09 14:32:13 <haeffb_pre> break;
Jun 09 14:32:14 <haeffb_pre> ...
Jun 09 14:32:23 <haeffb_pre> }
Jun 09 14:32:35 <haeffb_pre> theArray.push(bla);
Jun 09 14:33:35 <BigBiff> more of a question on how the engine reads the script - literally line at a time? or the function in its entirety?
Jun 09 14:38:34 <zefanjas> hello...does anybody has a solution to this problem? http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1370&p=9246
Jun 09 14:43:56 <dpivs> hi everyone
Jun 09 14:44:44 <twbbas> hi
Jun 09 14:45:00 <swisstomcat> hi
Jun 09 14:45:02 <twbbas> You guys heard about the new pdk contest? There are some good prizes
Jun 09 14:45:33 <HattCzech_work> ...? new pdk contest? me want in
Jun 09 14:45:59 <dpivs> makes me wanna learn C.
Jun 09 14:46:15 <twbbas> http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2085
Jun 09 14:46:56 <twbbas> HP Envy 17 for 850 people :o
Jun 09 14:48:17 <swisstomcat> yeah, pretty cool
Jun 09 14:48:28 <swisstomcat> off to learn c/c++ and sdl
Jun 09 14:48:42 <warpdesign_> I was under the impression this was 425 people "only"..
Jun 09 14:49:01 <zefanjas> does the pdk contest also includes hybrid apps or only plain pdk apps?
Jun 09 14:49:39 <swisstomcat> do hybrids apps already work?
Jun 09 14:53:34 <swisstomcat> i've taken my ares app and expanded it with new stuff outside of ares .. worked without a problem
Jun 09 14:58:08 <HattCzech_work> i need to figure out a way to call a function in my main scene after i've loaded something in my app assistant... any thoughts? (it's delayed slightly after the setup of the main scene)
Jun 09 15:00:37 <BigBiff> i dont understand
Jun 09 15:00:43 <BigBiff> ?
Jun 09 15:01:45 <Tibfib> this.controller.delegateToSceneAssistant("functionname", param1); (fromm app-assistant)
Jun 09 15:02:25 <HattCzech_work> nice
Jun 09 15:02:35 <BigBiff> that's nifty
Jun 09 15:02:55 <HattCzech_work> Tibfib: i was about to try MainsceneAssistant.function(args); from AppAssistant... would that also work?
Jun 09 15:03:08 <Tibfib> Not sure. It might
Jun 09 15:03:16 <HattCzech_work> we shall see
Jun 09 15:03:18 <Tibfib> If that scene is a global source
Jun 09 15:10:23 <HattCzech_work> urg, neither of those options seemed to work :/
Jun 09 15:11:06 <haeffb_pre> if you define scenes: in sources.json, it's not global
Jun 09 15:11:47 <HattCzech_work> i don't
Jun 09 15:12:06 <HattCzech_work> i just want to test on the emulator, but proxy makes that not work :/
Jun 09 15:14:27 <Tibfib> delegate to scene assistant works
Jun 09 15:14:38 <haeffb_pre> agreed
Jun 09 15:15:10 <haeffb_pre> other option is to move function to a .js that IS global
Jun 09 15:15:12 <Tibfib> I guess I didn't tell you how to do it right
Jun 09 15:15:24 <Tibfib> 	var cardStageController = this.controller.getStageController('cardStage'); cardStageController.delegateToSceneAssistant("functionname", params);	
Jun 09 15:15:56 <HattCzech_work> ahhh
Jun 09 15:16:05 <HattCzech_work> maybe that cardStage might be needed
Jun 09 15:18:41 <HattCzech_work> urg... still doesn't want to work
Jun 09 15:28:29 <swisstomcat> fail whale :(
Jun 09 15:47:04 <pandora--> my Yammer app was finally approved!
Jun 09 15:47:09 <pandora--> finnaaalllyyyy
Jun 09 15:47:18 <swisstomcat> yay
Jun 09 15:47:31 <Tibfib> congrats!
Jun 09 15:47:36 <pandora--> says published, but I don't actually see it
Jun 09 15:47:39 <pandora--> that's ok, it'll get there
Jun 09 15:47:48 <pandora--> just happy everything got worked out with it
Jun 09 15:47:58 <pandora--> this is the one they made me rename
Jun 09 15:48:08 <pandora--> then Yammer made me redo my logos
Jun 09 15:48:32 <pandora--> then during the testing for appstore yammer's service was down and it got me rejected
Jun 09 15:48:37 <pandora--> gahh laaame
Jun 09 15:48:40 <pandora--> lol done!
Jun 09 15:48:49 <Tibfib> hrmm... I want to win pdk contest... I'd like an envy 17 >.<
Jun 09 15:48:53 <swisstomcat> heh
Jun 09 15:49:07 <swisstomcat> too bad i don't know any c/c++/sdl/opengl
Jun 09 15:49:24 <Tibfib> I wonder if hybrid apps count
Jun 09 15:49:30 <swisstomcat> good question
Jun 09 15:50:25 <Tibfib> I think the pro version of mojo messenger will be pdk only >.<... it will be a simple page that tells my server your account is now pro
Jun 09 15:50:26 <swisstomcat> i've updated 3 apps today
Jun 09 15:50:39 <halfhalo> Bah
Jun 09 15:50:40 <halfhalo> pdk
Jun 09 15:50:53 <swisstomcat> lies
Jun 09 15:50:54 <halfhalo> websockets or gtfo
Jun 09 15:50:59 <swisstomcat> :)
Jun 09 15:51:12 <swisstomcat> congrats on your node-js irc client, halfhalo .. looks cool
Jun 09 15:52:21 <Tibfib> halfhalo: any pics or vids?
Jun 09 15:53:33 <halfhalo> http://silentsight.homelinux.org/client.html# <- only works in chrome and safari 5 (and the pre's browser due to the fallback, but its not formatted for that)
Jun 09 15:54:06 <pandora--> halfhalo: lol
Jun 09 15:55:22 <Tibfib> cool
Jun 09 15:55:27 <halfhalo> yup
Jun 09 15:55:36 <Tibfib> going to make webOS app out of it?
Jun 09 15:55:37 <halfhalo> still needs work, but…..
Jun 09 15:55:59 <halfhalo> nah, going to keep it browser based due to long polling
Jun 09 15:56:18 <halfhalo> at least for now
Jun 09 15:56:59 <swisstomcat> hehe
Jun 09 15:57:05 <Tibfib> I think you should definitely consider making it inot a webOS app. there is a definite need
Jun 09 15:57:11 <Tibfib> (catalog approved)
Jun 09 15:57:26 <swisstomcat> how complicated was it?
Jun 09 15:58:22 <swisstomcat> for a node.js beginner (i assume)
Jun 09 15:58:50 <swisstomcat> bah, fail whale
Jun 09 15:59:07 <halfhalo> It is retartedly easy
Jun 09 15:59:07 <bsiegel> Can anyone tell me - what are the use cases for the PDK, aside from doing 3D?
Jun 09 15:59:27 <haeffb_pre> Tibfib: wirc is going to be submitted to catalog
Jun 09 15:59:31 <halfhalo> This is the main irc connection class: http://github.com/halfhalo/Node.js-IRC/blob/master/irc.js
Jun 09 15:59:48 <halfhalo> well, its an older version
Jun 09 16:00:04 <halfhalo> I switched the emmiters to emit json strings
Jun 09 16:00:15 <HattCzech_work> urg, this is frustrating
Jun 09 16:00:33 <HattCzech_work> can you popup errordialogs from the appassistant?
Jun 09 16:00:34 <swisstomcat> bsiegel: hybrid apps where you have a pdk-plugin inside your mojo apps
Jun 09 16:00:53 <Tibfib> haeffb_pre: oh really? Nice!
Jun 09 16:01:22 <halfhalo> I'm just going to make a pre formatted web interface for this since it uses no data when not transmitting stuff
Jun 09 16:01:28 <bsiegel> swisstomcat: But aside from 3D, what might someone want to do with the plugin component? Maybe if there was a computationally intensive algorithm or something...
Jun 09 16:01:38 <haeffb_pre> HattCzech_work: see webos101 dialog
Jun 09 16:02:01 <swisstomcat> bsiegel: advanced audio for example
Jun 09 16:02:10 <haeffb_pre> they're waiting for 1.4.5
Jun 09 16:03:02 <meppum> hey guys
Jun 09 16:03:05 <swisstomcat> hey
Jun 09 16:03:19 <meppum> i'm having some issues with the autocreate help scene
Jun 09 16:03:26 <Robdor> bsiegel: There are also cases where you want to hide an algorithm that you are using and extracting that out of a compiled PDK binary while not impossible, is much harder to do than obfuscated javascript.
Jun 09 16:03:37 <HattCzech_work> oh, that hardcore breaks it
Jun 09 16:03:45 <meppum> i want to launch a scene that isn't in the normal /app directory.
Jun 09 16:03:50 <HattCzech_work> ugh... debugging on phone = the suck
Jun 09 16:04:21 <swisstomcat> robdor: yeah, that's another use case
Jun 09 16:04:22 <meppum> it's in /core, but it doesn't i get an error that the template couldn't be loaded. is there any way to specify the template path?
Jun 09 16:04:37 <bsiegel> Ok, I gotcha. Thanks :)
Jun 09 16:04:56 <swisstomcat> but mojo will get tasty stuff too later this year
Jun 09 16:05:06 <swisstomcat> file i/o etc.
Jun 09 16:05:16 <swisstomcat> together with javascript-services that you can write
Jun 09 16:05:16 <bsiegel> I was thinking maybe it was more like the iPhone where all the good APIs were available to native code.
Jun 09 16:06:35 <Robdor> Unfortunately not very many of palm's apis are easily available to native code.  It's pretty much card display and basic input.  You are on your own for everything else.
Jun 09 16:07:12 <warpdesign_> hmm.. btw how do you detect phone calls/sms in native code ?
Jun 09 16:07:27 <meppum> warpdesign: i don't think you can in the PDK
Jun 09 16:07:34 <warpdesign_> oh, really ?
Jun 09 16:07:52 <warpdesign_> so what happens if you receive a call while running some pdk app ?
Jun 09 16:08:23 <meppum> well, i think that's handled by the normal notifications. i thought you mean "intercept" an incoming call or sms
Jun 09 16:08:25 <meppum> my bad
Jun 09 16:08:39 <swisstomcat> pdk apps also run in cards
Jun 09 16:08:41 <warpdesign_> well, I mean, both
Jun 09 16:08:42 <Robdor> There are SDL events for that.
Jun 09 16:08:58 <swisstomcat> it's the same handling if a call comes in
Jun 09 16:08:59 <warpdesign_> in a normal app, a notification is overlaid above your app
Jun 09 16:09:06 <warpdesign_> what happens in a pdk app ?
Jun 09 16:09:32 <swisstomcat> notification, card is clipped
Jun 09 16:09:34 <swisstomcat> ?
Jun 09 16:09:39 <Robdor> SDL_APPACTIVE will let you know if your card is active or not so that you can pause when receiving a phone call.
Jun 09 16:09:49 <warpdesign_> btw there's no way to be notified about it in your app, it's up to the user to accept the call (in which case you will get a minimize notidication)
Jun 09 16:10:09 <warpdesign_> ok, so a phone call will send you this event, no matter you accept it or not ?
Jun 09 16:10:27 <Robdor> I believe so.  I haven't implemented in my game yet though, so I could be wrong.
Jun 09 16:10:35 <warpdesign_> ok
Jun 09 16:11:17 <swisstomcat> is buying c++ for dummies and sdl beginner worth $1000?
Jun 09 16:12:16 <Robdor> It looks like there is a PDL function to turn off banners for PDK apps.  http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1948&Itemid=337
Jun 09 16:12:35 <meppum> Anyone got an ideas on this: I'm using the pushAppSupportInfoScene. In my appinfo.json file I'm trying to call a scene called "foo" (sceneName: "foo"), and in sources the foo assistant is @ /app/core/assistant/foo/foo-assistant.js. Unfortunately, it seems that only scenes that are @ /app will work (eg /app/foo). Is there any way to specify the path of the scene?
Jun 09 16:13:08 <Robdor> So I think between using that, SDL_APPACTIVE and SDL_APPINPUTFOCUS you are covered on events and notifications.
Jun 09 16:13:21 <Robdor> swisstomcat: Is there a missing . in that price?
Jun 09 16:13:35 <swisstomcat> why?
Jun 09 16:13:44 <Robdor> $1000 for books?
Jun 09 16:13:53 <warpdesign_> Robdor, I see.. so it means there are notifications, even in pdk apps, it's nice
Jun 09 16:14:01 <swisstomcat> i'd have to buy those books and then i could win $1000 or a hp laptop
Jun 09 16:14:06 <Robdor> Oh, I see.
Jun 09 16:14:09 <swisstomcat> if i manage to write a cool pdk app
Jun 09 16:14:18 <swisstomcat> i wonder if it's worth it
Jun 09 16:14:23 <Robdor> I thought you wanted to pay $1,000 for those two books. :)
Jun 09 16:14:27 <swisstomcat> heh
Jun 09 16:14:28 <swisstomcat> no
Jun 09 16:15:55 <bsiegel> I know it's wishful thinking, but after looking over the PDK info, I don't see any technical reason Miguel & co. couldn't make Mono for WebOS :)
Jun 09 16:15:59 <Robdor> I haven't gone through any SDL books.  This site has some really outstanding tutorials http://www.lazyfoo.net/SDL_tutorials/index.php that I used to pick up SDL.
Jun 09 16:16:54 <swisstomcat> anyone that wants to alpha test my tuts app?
Jun 09 16:19:00 <Robdor> bsiegel: It would be nice to have more language options for WebOS.  I compiled ruby for the device, but I haven't worked on getting Ruby SDL and OpenGL bindings yet.
Jun 09 16:20:18 <bsiegel> Do PDK apps have access to the DOM of the page they are running in?
Jun 09 16:20:57 <warpdesign_> Robdor, nice
Jun 09 16:20:58 <HattCzech_work> hmmm, delegateToSceneAssistant doesn't work
Jun 09 16:21:00 <HattCzech_work> it breaks
Jun 09 16:21:32 <Robdor> bsiegel: I'm not sure, I haven't tried writing a hybrid app yet.  I would wager that it doesn't.
Jun 09 16:21:37 <warpdesign_> Robdor, would be interesting, but webos shouldn't become some mess with outdated languages (for ex. missing bindings,..)
Jun 09 16:21:49 <warpdesign_> I guess it's not that easy to really fully support a new language
Jun 09 16:21:56 <bsiegel> It would be slick to be able to have, say, Ruby available as a plugin, and then just be able to write <script language="text/ruby">blahblah</script>
Jun 09 16:21:58 <warpdesign_> I wouldn't be against having one more thoughj
Jun 09 16:22:04 <chuqui> morning, all.
Jun 09 16:22:11 <halfhalo> mornin
Jun 09 16:22:24 <halfhalo> pushing out the new irc.js class to mah github
Jun 09 16:22:33 <halfhalo> will push the rest of the client later at work
Jun 09 16:22:43 <Robdor> warpdesign_: But if the developer includes the interpreter with his app, instead of being supported by palm I don't think it would be a mess.
Jun 09 16:22:50 <halfhalo> http://github.com/halfhalo/Node.js-IRC
Jun 09 16:22:51 <swisstomcat> hi chuqui
Jun 09 16:22:55 <warpdesign_> yes indeed
Jun 09 16:23:00 <warpdesign_> I'm off :)
Jun 09 16:23:01 <swisstomcat> chuq: thumbs up for the pdk contest
Jun 09 16:23:11 <chuqui> thanks!
Jun 09 16:23:45 <swisstomcat> that come out of nowhere
Jun 09 16:24:10 <haeffb_pre> HattCzech_work: it works if you do it right...
Jun 09 16:24:10 <swisstomcat> also thumbs up on the developer profiles
Jun 09 16:24:28 <chuqui> I'll pass the word on those, too.
Jun 09 16:24:37 <bsiegel> in fact it occurs to me that you wouldn't even need to have DOM access in the PDK itself, you could just have a javascript wrapper that scans the DOM and then adds the proper <object> tag with the ruby (or whatever) source as an argument
Jun 09 16:24:45 <HattCzech_work> haeffb_pre: then i guess i'm not doing it right
Jun 09 16:24:53 <HattCzech_work> got the error messages to popup
Jun 09 16:25:04 <haeffb_pre> how are you doing it?
Jun 09 16:25:08 <swisstomcat> chuq: one question that has popped up .. hybrid pdk apps in the contest?
Jun 09 16:25:58 <chuqui> I believe that's okay. I'll double-check.
Jun 09 16:26:31 <Tibfib> Woot!
Jun 09 16:26:32 <HattCzech_work> var cardStageController = this.controller.getStageController(MainStage); 	cardStageController.delegateToSceneAssistant("function");
Jun 09 16:26:35 <haeffb_pre> chuqui: sent you an email re: app update...
Jun 09 16:27:09 <haeffb_pre> what's breaking...?
Jun 09 16:27:20 <HattCzech_work> it just isn't calling the function
Jun 09 16:27:50 <Tibfib> are you saying "function()"? or just "function"?
Jun 09 16:28:01 <HattCzech_work> i do getdeviceid -> ajaxrequest -> ajaxresponse -> delegate
Jun 09 16:28:21 <halfhalo> bbl
Jun 09 16:28:25 <HattCzech_work> it's done in the appassistant declaration
Jun 09 16:28:58 <Tibfib> I don't know if it will work there... is the stage set up?
Jun 09 16:29:17 <HattCzech_work> when do onSuccess functions get called?
Jun 09 16:29:23 <HattCzech_work> there is a slight delay, right?
Jun 09 16:29:27 <Tibfib> yeah
Jun 09 16:29:46 <HattCzech_work> the stage setup is below in the stageassistant {} (nothing in it)
Jun 09 16:30:05 <Tibfib> they happen when the ajax request succeeds >.<... which means it will take some time
Jun 09 16:30:30 <HattCzech_work> that's what i thought
Jun 09 16:30:41 <HattCzech_work> where were you calling your delegate function?
Jun 09 16:31:39 <haeffb_pre> appAssistant.handleLaunch
Jun 09 16:32:26 <HattCzech_work> do you define this.controller in there?
Jun 09 16:35:20 <Amaranth> yay, I was useful on the forums
Jun 09 16:36:23 <Tibfib> in an app-assistant function
Jun 09 16:36:43 <Tibfib> AppAssistant.prototype.refresh to be exact
Jun 09 16:37:34 <HattCzech_work> FINALLY!!!!
Jun 09 16:38:52 <Amaranth> ?
Jun 09 16:39:08 <HattCzech_work> var cardStageController = Mojo.Controller.stageController.activeScene(); 	cardStageController.stageController.delegateToSceneAssistant("function");
Jun 09 16:39:08 <Tibfib> heh
Jun 09 16:39:38 <Tibfib> hmm... I don't need that in mine.
Jun 09 16:39:45 <Tibfib> but congrats on getting it working
Jun 09 16:40:05 <HattCzech_work> thanks
Jun 09 16:40:05 <HattCzech_work> took long enough ;)
Jun 09 16:40:38 <Chriswebos> does anyone know the different sound classes?
Jun 09 16:40:43 <Chriswebos> or where i can find them?
Jun 09 16:40:53 <hemna> anyone find that palm-log over usb is slow or non responsive?
Jun 09 16:41:06 <hemna> I'm just getting nothing back
Jun 09 16:47:31 <chuqui> swisstomcat, you around? answer on the hybrid apps
Jun 09 16:50:49 <vibol> chuqui: i'd like to hear the answer too. i'm interested in hybrid apps... though what was the question? :)
Jun 09 16:51:26 <chuqui> hybrid apps won't be fully supported in the upcoing release and the catalog, so they won't be able to get in the catalog
Jun 09 16:51:34 <chuqui> and for that reason, they won't be in the promotion, either.
Jun 09 16:51:47 <chuqui> that support is still being worked on.
Jun 09 16:51:58 <chuqui> so until we can get them into the catalog, we can't distribute them.
Jun 09 16:51:59 <Tibfib> They aren't in the promotion?
Jun 09 16:52:11 <Tibfib> Aww... looks like I'll have to make a pdk-only app then
Jun 09 16:52:34 <chuqui> yeah,
Jun 09 16:52:37 <Tibfib> Thanks for getting the answer chuqui
Jun 09 16:52:50 <chuqui> no problemo.
Jun 09 16:53:01 <vibol> chuqui: thanks
Jun 09 16:54:11 <halfhalo_pre> dundunduuuuunnnnnn
Jun 09 16:54:46 <halfhalo_pre> I had to bring the devphone since no wirc on pre right now *sad panda face*
Jun 09 16:55:04 <hemna> palm-log says it's following the log for the app over usb....just getting nothing from it
Jun 09 16:55:39 <halfhalo_pre> is logging enabled on the phone?
Jun 09 16:56:06 <hemna> not sure, I assumed that it was on?
Jun 09 16:56:18 <halfhalo_pre> heh
Jun 09 16:56:35 <halfhalo_pre> it's not set to the right log level methinks
Jun 09 16:57:03 <hemna> the emulator log works with the same app
Jun 09 16:57:13 <halfhalo_pre> there's a command to change it but I can't recall it of the top of my head
Jun 09 16:57:35 <MetaView> hi
Jun 09 16:57:40 <halfhalo_pre> the phone defaults to not show warnings or infos in the log
Jun 09 16:58:39 <hemna> ah ok I got it
Jun 09 16:58:43 <hemna> palm-log --system-log-level info
Jun 09 16:58:46 <hemna> thnx
Jun 09 17:06:30 <twbbas> I'm looking to make a multiplayer (mainly text-based) game that people can play online at my website or on webos. Does anyone have any experience with this? Should I use flash for the online part and php for the backend?
Jun 09 17:07:21 <Nyceane> what is this new pdk thing?
Jun 09 17:07:37 <Robdor> Nyceane: Apps written in native C/C++
Jun 09 17:08:01 <Nyceane> is it possible for me to port my app to c/c++?
Jun 09 17:08:24 <Nyceane> techniquely same app but just using pdk to do it instead
Jun 09 17:08:37 <MetaView> yes, you could do it...
Jun 09 17:09:10 <Nyceane> lol...
Jun 09 17:09:19 <Robdor> Nyceane: There aren't any GUI libraries provided for PDK apps, so you have to roll your own or create a hybrid app.
Jun 09 17:09:21 <Nyceane> more hello world apps I guess =)
Jun 09 17:09:37 <Nyceane> Robdor, i can just port my entire app using pdk, not hard
Jun 09 17:09:54 <Nyceane> competition requirement didnt require me to go into OpenGL
Jun 09 17:10:16 <MetaView> but there might be a lot of real C/C++ apps
Jun 09 17:10:28 <Nyceane> not really, its sorta backwards
Jun 09 17:10:32 <MetaView> I will port some of my PalmOS apps, I guess
Jun 09 17:10:38 <Nyceane> c++ is my main langauge
Jun 09 17:10:42 <MetaView> ok
Jun 09 17:10:48 <MetaView> then you should contribute :)
Jun 09 17:11:01 <Nyceane> i havn't touched it for a while tho, java and c# kinda spoiled me
Jun 09 17:11:17 <Nyceane> thats why i am having such a hard time to do iphone programming
Jun 09 17:11:21 <Nyceane> it feels like programming in the 90s
Jun 09 17:11:22 <Nyceane> =_=
Jun 09 17:11:52 <Nyceane> even the 80s
Jun 09 17:11:53 <MetaView> with VC++ 6.0
Jun 09 17:12:22 <Nyceane> i started with borland, duno if they even exist now
Jun 09 17:13:28 <hemna> I'd take C over Java any day :P
Jun 09 17:13:48 <Nyceane> I wouldn't... pointers are very annoying
Jun 09 17:13:50 <MetaView> C# has conviced me to be quite handy...
Jun 09 17:14:09 <Nyceane> MetaView, same here heh
Jun 09 17:14:10 <MetaView> but, hey, C is just better, one can feel the bumbles on the road...
Jun 09 17:15:01 <MetaView> just adding a swipe to delete ftr to the calendar... cool
Jun 09 17:15:02 <Nyceane> MetaView, C is better if you seek more control, controlling specific hardware, but we are doing programming on top of something else
Jun 09 17:15:37 <MetaView> you reach more in less time with C#, that's for sure, nice powerfull collection classes
Jun 09 17:15:47 <MetaView> ok, bbl, need to prepare some dinner
Jun 09 17:20:24 <pandora--> dinner? man i'm still enjoying my morning coffee :)
Jun 09 17:20:58 <pandora--> hemna: I'll take Java if I can use Groovy syntax
Jun 09 17:21:18 <pandora--> hemna: Java proper (jdk6) is so antiquated in it's language syntax
Jun 09 17:22:09 <hemna> Groovy make Java slightly less painful.
Jun 09 17:22:20 <pandora--> I really like groovy
Jun 09 17:22:24 <pandora--> [on grails]
Jun 09 17:22:52 <hemna> I'd take php any day over that.
Jun 09 17:23:05 <hemna> I do java for a living :(
Jun 09 17:23:33 <hemna> quickly trying to learn WebOS, so I can try and move to a WebOS team once HP finishes buying Palm.
Jun 09 17:41:16 <pandora--> hemna: you do?
Jun 09 17:41:26 <hemna> yah
Jun 09 17:41:27 <pandora--> hemna: what kind of java?
Jun 09 17:41:41 * pandora-- points to himself in #j2me
Jun 09 17:41:50 <hemna> our app is huge...it's a mix of environments
Jun 09 17:41:57 <pandora--> JavaME is my dayjob, webos is my after-work coding
Jun 09 17:42:09 <hemna> jsps and applets/swing :(
Jun 09 17:42:21 <hemna> I'm stuck doing Swing most of the time.   horrible.
Jun 09 18:02:53 <pandora--> hemna: ouch
Jun 09 18:02:56 <pandora--> hemna: i'm sorry
Jun 09 18:03:11 <pandora--> hemna: that's what I dislike most of java, is doing awt/swing stuff
Jun 09 18:07:57 <pandora--> though, I do j2m
Jun 09 18:07:59 <pandora--> j2me
Jun 09 18:08:05 <pandora--> which is based on JDK1.1
Jun 09 18:08:09 <pandora--> how about them apples?
Jun 09 18:08:22 <pandora--> only /some/ devices can even do floating point operations
Jun 09 18:08:29 <pandora--> that's how much fun it is.
Jun 09 18:08:38 <LoneStar99> good afternoon everyone
Jun 09 18:10:10 <hemna> yah it's absolutely horrible.
Jun 09 18:12:23 <halfhalo_pre> wakkawakkawakka
Jun 09 18:20:31 <LoneStar99> wow another key WebOS dude leaves Palm =(
Jun 09 18:21:50 <Nyceane> joining google?
Jun 09 18:23:13 <Nyceane> palm's rewards are keeping me away from working on other platforms!
Jun 09 18:23:14 <LoneStar99> Apple
Jun 09 18:23:14 <Nyceane> lol
Jun 09 18:23:30 <LoneStar99> http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20007226-260.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0
Jun 09 18:24:28 <pandora--> Nyceane: heh
Jun 09 18:24:44 <pandora--> Nyceane: saw your update hit the store the other day, hows the downloads going?
Jun 09 18:31:48 <swisstomcat> thanks chuq
Jun 09 18:33:10 <LoneStar99> hi swisstomcat
Jun 09 18:33:27 <swisstomcat> hey lonestar
Jun 09 18:38:30 <hemna> what is the official way to check to see if the network is available?
Jun 09 18:39:10 <Tibfib> system properties or something... give me a sec
Jun 09 18:39:27 <Tibfib> oh
Jun 09 18:39:30 <Tibfib> just kidding: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1548&Itemid=269
Jun 09 18:40:07 <hemna> great thanks!
Jun 09 18:46:30 <HotDP> Evning
Jun 09 18:48:16 <MetaView> hi
Jun 09 18:49:47 <pandora--> yo
Jun 09 18:50:40 <HotDP> Why are you guys not in San Francisco PDK Party ?
Jun 09 18:50:44 <MetaView> does webkit support filter in css?
Jun 09 18:51:02 <MetaView> I'm not even in San Francisco
Jun 09 18:51:34 <MetaView> I need some style I could add to a dragged calendar event to indicate it will be deleted
Jun 09 18:51:38 <halfhalo_class> SF is to faaaar
Jun 09 18:51:59 <MetaView> some style I can add and remove without interfere the normal view
Jun 09 18:58:54 <lemketron-away> HattCzech:  You could play with squid if you want to solve the proxy issue, and maybe expand the wiki instructions for those who want to get it working in the emulator (as opposed to device)...  Just a thought.  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/SetupSquidTransparentProxy
Jun 09 18:59:42 <halfhalo_class> Woooooot
Jun 09 18:59:44 <halfhalo_class> oooot
Jun 09 18:59:45 <halfhalo_class> ot
Jun 09 18:59:48 <halfhalo_class> taco
Jun 09 19:01:08 <BigBiff> ugg i hate empty irc channels
Jun 09 19:01:18 <halfhalo_class> And?
Jun 09 19:01:28 <lemketron> HotDP: If you're talking about the Palm event, it's not until this evening.
Jun 09 19:02:06 <HotDP> Ohh.. Where i live its evening now.. So i thought is was from midday or something
Jun 09 19:02:27 <HotDP> I hope there is some hardware news
Jun 09 19:02:28 <funkatron> Hey, if folks are interested, we're having a Spaz Hackathon on Saturday. We'll meet on Freenode in #spaz.
Jun 09 19:02:31 <BigBiff> trying to get adobe site license for a class.....
Jun 09 19:03:57 <lemketron> http://www.precentral.net/palm-host-wwdc-meetup-june-9th
Jun 09 19:05:29 <lemketron> RSVP info here: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2075
Jun 09 19:06:04 <lemketron> Also on LinkedIn here: http://events.linkedin.com/Palm-PDK-Appcelerator-Party/pub/342841
Jun 09 19:20:20 <Famic> is there a way to check if my app leaks memory ?
Jun 09 19:24:54 <dpivs> i think palm-worm's supposed to be for that.
Jun 09 19:28:18 <dpivs> Famic: here's the link if you don't already know:  http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1689 hope this helps.
Jun 09 19:29:23 <Famic> thanks
Jun 09 19:29:31 <Famic> seems I'm good :)
Jun 09 19:37:19 <MetaView> does webos support divs with multiple bg images?
Jun 09 19:39:29 <swisstomcat> hi metaview
Jun 09 19:40:34 <MetaView> hi
Jun 09 19:40:43 <MetaView> to answer my own qeustion, yes it does
Jun 09 19:41:41 <Famic> multiple bg images ? o_O
Jun 09 19:41:52 <MetaView> http://www.quirksmode.org/css/multiple_backgrounds.html
Jun 09 19:43:39 <Famic> and there's a point in using that ?
Jun 09 19:43:54 <MetaView> yes, there is
Jun 09 19:44:12 <MetaView> imagine to have multiple icons in your calendar's month-view
Jun 09 19:45:41 <Famic> what do you mean ?
Jun 09 19:46:59 <MetaView> I speak about a calendar which is usefull...
Jun 09 19:47:15 <MetaView> where you could see in month view what's up on the days
Jun 09 19:48:12 <Famic> why would you use bg images instead of... say, floated divs ?
Jun 09 19:49:12 <MetaView> because the month view is already there, and I only want to enhance it without destroying everything and trying to rebuild it
Jun 09 19:49:45 <MetaView> I'm not even sure how the days are made in month view, but I know I can add background images using css
Jun 09 19:50:30 <Famic> so it's more of a quick workaround that something you'd recommend
Jun 09 19:51:12 <MetaView> it's a patch to the default calendar
Jun 09 19:51:17 <MetaView> not a rewrite
Jun 09 19:52:31 <Famic> you could use palmInspector to see how the month view is made and apply the bkg on the right element
Jun 09 19:53:22 <MetaView> well, i have the element, and there is already an bg image applied
Jun 09 19:54:08 <MetaView> I think I will just replace it, or I add a div as innnerHTML and apply my icons to this div
Jun 09 19:54:17 <MetaView> but then I need the diff transparent, I guess
Jun 09 19:54:39 <Famic> I'd rather attach an element to the right target than put it on the container and risk it breaks anytime
Jun 09 19:55:37 <MetaView> what do you mean with the right target?
Jun 09 19:56:06 <Famic> I mean the day div
Jun 09 19:56:16 <MetaView> well, that's what I do
Jun 09 19:56:43 <Famic> I thought you were adding bg images to the whole month view container
Jun 09 19:57:08 <MetaView> no
Jun 09 19:57:19 <MetaView> to the div or whatever which makes the day
Jun 09 20:03:47 <HotDP> Hmm the icon.png, what is the size for that?
Jun 09 20:03:54 <HotDP> I might have used a wrong size..
Jun 09 20:04:10 <Famic> 48x48
Jun 09 20:05:18 <HotDP> Pfew
Jun 09 20:05:32 <HotDP> I just read 64 * 64
Jun 09 20:05:35 <swisstomcat> 64
Jun 09 20:05:52 <swisstomcat> but 48 works too i think
Jun 09 20:06:28 <HotDP> ?
Jun 09 20:06:35 <HotDP> is 64 x 64 the best?
Jun 09 20:06:38 <HotDP> need to know :D
Jun 09 20:07:15 <Tibfib> I think so
Jun 09 20:07:19 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 09 20:07:24 <Famic> damn you're right
Jun 09 20:07:54 <Famic> I based mine on one I got in the sdk or a tuto, but the real actual size is 64x64
Jun 09 20:07:58 <HotDP> me 2
Jun 09 20:10:24 <hemna> Apple cider ?
Jun 09 20:10:32 <Famic> no thankd
Jun 09 20:10:39 <Famic> s/d/s
Jun 09 20:11:18 <hemna> :P
Jun 09 20:15:29 <LoneStar99> anyone know if the PDK works on windows 7 64 bit yet?
Jun 09 20:17:04 <swisstomcat> oh no, another nodejs-slave
Jun 09 20:17:10 <halfhalo_class> lol
Jun 09 20:17:19 <halfhalo_class> damn slaves
Jun 09 20:17:20 <MetaView> what is nodejs?
Jun 09 20:17:24 <swisstomcat> node.js
Jun 09 20:17:36 <MetaView> I even don't know this
Jun 09 20:17:38 <swisstomcat> server side javascript
Jun 09 20:17:41 <MetaView> another js framework?
Jun 09 20:17:45 <MetaView> ok
Jun 09 20:17:57 <swisstomcat> nodejs.org
Jun 09 20:18:18 <MetaView> sometime I have the feeling, there are millions js frameworks
Jun 09 20:18:28 <halfhalo_class> source is up here http://github.com/halfhalo/Node.js-IRC-Client
Jun 09 20:18:47 <halfhalo_class> need to do clone --recursive though
Jun 09 20:18:50 <MetaView> child.setStyle({background-image: 'url(/media/internal/scrims/ubercalendar/alarm-icon.png)'});
Jun 09 20:19:04 <MetaView> what's wrong with this?
Jun 09 20:19:09 <Famic> jQuery ftw :p
Jun 09 20:19:51 <halfhalo_class> node.js and jquery are on seperate sides of the bridge
Jun 09 20:20:08 <swisstomcat> jquery=client nodejs=server
Jun 09 20:20:21 <Famic> server side js ? o_O
Jun 09 20:20:24 <swisstomcat> you can write a webserver in javascript
Jun 09 20:20:26 <swisstomcat> sure
Jun 09 20:20:38 <Famic> what's the point then ?
Jun 09 20:20:44 <Famic> there are plenty of better languages for that
Jun 09 20:20:44 <swisstomcat> next gen services in webos will be in js
Jun 09 20:20:55 <swisstomcat> like?
Jun 09 20:21:20 <Famic> java...php...anything .net
Jun 09 20:21:37 <swisstomcat> webos has java services now
Jun 09 20:21:45 <swisstomcat> so you need a jvm
Jun 09 20:21:57 <swisstomcat> you already have a js interpreter, why not use that
Jun 09 20:22:10 <halfhalo_class> node.js is more like ruby than php or hjava
Jun 09 20:22:15 <halfhalo_class> its event based
Jun 09 20:22:26 <swisstomcat> check out nodejs.org
Jun 09 20:22:34 <halfhalo_class> yup
Jun 09 20:23:13 * BigBiff hates midi
Jun 09 20:23:21 <halfhalo_class> As you should
Jun 09 20:24:46 <swisstomcat> famic: you don't like js?
Jun 09 20:25:51 <Famic> swisstomcat: not sure I do :D it's a dirty language that has for main advantage to be in every browser for client side scripting
Jun 09 20:26:03 <swisstomcat> a dirty language?
Jun 09 20:27:04 * Tibfib likes javascript
Jun 09 20:28:06 <swisstomcat> define dirty language
Jun 09 20:28:55 <Famic> no typing, array and object are the same (but not really)... I'm not a "real" developer, even though I develop quite a lot nowadays, but js history and behaviour is not what I'd expect of a well thought language
Jun 09 20:30:44 <swisstomcat> probably depends what you're used to
Jun 09 20:30:55 <swisstomcat> i've always used non-typed languages
Jun 09 20:30:55 <MetaView> js is quite a mess
Jun 09 20:31:04 <Famic> I don't know enough to explain why, but even Douglas Crawford says it's a mess, and the guy loves it
Jun 09 20:31:10 <MetaView> no wonder there are thousands of frameworks to help you
Jun 09 20:31:31 <Famic> indeed
Jun 09 20:31:35 <MetaView> no icons with my setStyle(backgroundImage)
Jun 09 20:31:41 <Famic> I still love jQuery though ;)
Jun 09 20:31:51 <swisstomcat> famic: but crockford says "don't use the bad parts"
Jun 09 20:33:00 <MetaView> oh, I miised one bracket, now I have a lot of icons...
Jun 09 20:34:15 <swisstomcat> is there an example for a menu inside a header?
Jun 09 20:34:23 <swisstomcat> popupsubmenu
Jun 09 20:35:42 <HotDP> good night
Jun 09 20:35:48 <swisstomcat> night hotdp
Jun 09 20:36:58 <haeffb_pre> swisstomcat: Done uses listSelectors in a header
Jun 09 20:37:10 <swisstomcat> well, i'm using a popupsubmenu
Jun 09 20:37:21 <swisstomcat> doesn't look quite right yet tho
Jun 09 20:37:30 <swisstomcat> e.g like in the calendar
Jun 09 20:37:37 <haeffb_pre> well then you don't get all the listSelector goodness
Jun 09 20:37:53 <swisstomcat> what would you recommend?
Jun 09 20:38:25 <swisstomcat> oh, done uses it too, right
Jun 09 20:38:28 <swisstomcat> ?
Jun 09 20:39:57 <haeffb_pre> I don't think it matters, really
Jun 09 20:40:50 <haeffb_pre> tasks app uses listSelector, I think
Jun 09 20:42:41 <swisstomcat> i'll try tomorrow
Jun 09 20:42:45 <swisstomcat> good night everyone
Jun 09 20:46:20 <halfhalo_class> interestng.....
Jun 09 20:47:58 <halfhalo_class> oh son of a.....
Jun 09 21:17:51 <BigBiff> i like my little popupsubmenu
Jun 09 21:18:55 <BigBiff> hmm
Jun 09 21:19:14 <sk1tt1sh> who would i ask if I was having trouble adding an ipk to webosdoctor and it not verifying during install
Jun 09 21:19:37 * BigBiff shies away
Jun 09 21:20:18 * BigBiff doesnt have webos doctor
Jun 09 21:20:37 <sk1tt1sh> hrmmm
Jun 09 21:21:28 <BigBiff> i need a design suggestion - i have a scene that's redundant
Jun 09 21:22:15 <BigBiff> shows same data that's in a list - but i need it for an 'add to favorites', 'map', and 'refresh' option
Jun 09 21:23:25 <BigBiff> dynamically adding widgets into an individual list row per tap seems less than appealing
Jun 09 21:24:24 <Tibfib> A little confused about what your asking... but change your list tap to a popupsubmenu?
Jun 09 21:24:27 <sk1tt1sh> put it in a button overlay
Jun 09 21:24:51 <sk1tt1sh> like the book reader
Jun 09 21:25:32 <BigBiff> interesting - i'm on the submenu kick - i like that idea
Jun 09 21:25:57 <BigBiff> i cant think of what the button overlay looks like
Jun 09 21:26:02 <sk1tt1sh> popupsubmenu is that what its called
Jun 09 21:26:13 <sk1tt1sh> i thnink thats what im talking about
Jun 09 21:26:30 <sk1tt1sh> you tap the screen and the button appear in the bottom (floating)
Jun 09 21:26:55 <BigBiff> i thought about that - is that what the reader does?
Jun 09 21:27:15 <sk1tt1sh> ya
Jun 09 21:29:50 <BigBiff> my lack of visual creativity is why my apps will never be distributed :(
Jun 09 21:30:37 <BigBiff> well, formally distributed
Jun 09 21:31:00 <sk1tt1sh> ive seen some on preware :P
Jun 09 21:40:31 <pandora--> BigBiff: haha
Jun 09 21:40:51 <pandora--> BigBiff: my apps are boring looking, they still do ok
Jun 09 21:41:18 <BigBiff> hehe
Jun 09 21:41:38 <BigBiff> well, the popup is a good idea - i'm gonna add it, then i'm done
Jun 09 21:41:51 <pandora--> http://www.precentral.net/app-gallery/app-catalog/ihate411
Jun 09 21:42:05 <pandora--> except for my splash screen, i like that. the rest is boring
Jun 09 21:42:19 <HattCzech_work> BigBiff: what exactly are you trying to do? you want a list with 3 options?
Jun 09 21:42:46 * HattCzech_work just threw up a little bit in his mouth after looking at that image
Jun 09 21:42:50 <HattCzech_work> ;)
Jun 09 21:43:14 <BigBiff> well, right now the list displays all the data - list tap took it to a new scene with redundant data, but command menu with 'map', etc
Jun 09 21:43:14 <Amaranth> If I put something in index.html how can I access it from my individual scenes?
Jun 09 21:43:16 <oilsworkn> that taste never goes away
Jun 09 21:43:22 <BigBiff> i like the popup for that though
Jun 09 21:44:38 <sk1tt1sh> anyone here ever modify webos-doctor?
Jun 09 21:44:41 <BigBiff> pandora: i've still got the crescent moon happening :-)
Jun 09 21:44:42 <sk1tt1sh> ohhh
Jun 09 21:45:03 <BigBiff> havent visited photohop yet
Jun 09 21:49:27 <pandora--> BigBiff: hahahahahha ok that's bad
Jun 09 21:49:34 <pandora--> BigBiff: that's so taboo
Jun 09 21:49:36 <pandora--> lol
Jun 09 21:50:07 <BigBiff> i think it's cool - all the cool people are doing it these days
Jun 09 21:50:13 <BigBiff> ;)
Jun 09 22:54:16 <Nyceane> you know whats strange
Jun 09 22:54:25 <BigBiff> i do
Jun 09 22:56:37 <haeffb> I don't. I can never tell.
Jun 09 22:57:07 <torchie> I just got a pre!
Jun 09 22:57:32 <pacemkr> congrats torchie
Jun 09 22:57:40 <torchie> what folder do you put music under when connecting as USB drive?
Jun 09 22:57:41 <pacemkr> a friend of mine just got one too
Jun 09 22:57:42 <pacemkr> loves it
Jun 09 22:57:54 <torchie> yeah I was turned on within the first 5 minutes of using it lol
Jun 09 22:58:38 <torchie> do I just create a music directory in root or...?
Jun 09 22:58:49 <pacemkr> as far as i know you can put it anywhere you want, and the pre will find and index it, im not sure though, since im using itunes (version 9.0.1 or earlier) to sync
Jun 09 22:58:57 <BigBiff> what is this.... .pre.... you speak of?
Jun 09 22:59:11 * oilsworkn created a music folder
Jun 09 23:00:01 <torchie> hmm how long does indexing usually take
Jun 09 23:00:42 <oilsworkn> not long at all
Jun 09 23:03:01 <torchie> is there a way to have hidden videos
Jun 09 23:03:12 <oilsworkn> pr0ns?
Jun 09 23:03:18 <oilsworkn> lol
Jun 09 23:03:25 <oilsworkn> i dont know
Jun 09 23:03:32 <BigBiff> palm frowns on those ;)
Jun 09 23:05:13 <Megatherium> Bigbiff: Nah, they're no Apple.
Jun 09 23:05:29 <torchie> yeah pr0ns
Jun 09 23:05:32 <BigBiff> true
Jun 09 23:05:35 <torchie> lol.
Jun 09 23:05:42 <oilsworkn> what is it, put it in a folder that starts with a .?
Jun 09 23:05:57 <torchie> back on winmo you didn't need to hide things, because nobody would be able to find them with that interface anyway
Jun 09 23:06:01 <oilsworkn> like ".catvids/milfs.mpeg"?
Jun 09 23:07:58 <torchie> one sec
Jun 09 23:08:07 <haeffb> but they
Jun 09 23:08:20 <haeffb> will still show up in video player, right?
Jun 09 23:08:38 <oilsworkn> i dont know
Jun 09 23:08:42 <oilsworkn> i was only guessing to begin with
Jun 09 23:09:29 <torchie> one thing though, I can't seem to find a skype client for webos
Jun 09 23:09:43 <torchie> It's not so much the video and voice I need so much as it is the text chat
Jun 09 23:11:25 <oilsworkn> i dont believe there is one
Jun 09 23:11:36 <haeffb> no microphone api
Jun 09 23:11:44 <haeffb> makes it hard to write a skype app
Jun 09 23:11:58 <torchie> :(
Jun 09 23:12:08 <torchie> it will be missed
Jun 09 23:18:38 <torchie> hurry uuuuup transfer the music
Jun 09 23:28:04 <BigBiff> microphone = tuner app
Jun 09 23:28:57 <BigBiff> = biff happy
Jun 09 23:30:49 <torchie> D:
Jun 09 23:30:53 <torchie> mac's not letting me eject the pre
Jun 09 23:37:11 <Famic> I just updated preware and my apps and I ended up with a "masters" golf background. Any idea what caused that ? And app can change my desktop background like that ?
Jun 09 23:38:36 <BigBiff> i dunno, i still havent gotten any themes to work on my phone
Jun 09 23:42:05 <Famic> daaaamn. I am restarting the phone and I see they replaced the "palm" logo with a golf ball too!! :(
Jun 09 23:42:29 <Famic> and now all the icons
Jun 09 23:42:44 <Famic> wtf is this theme installing itself on my phone
Jun 09 23:44:21 <HattCzech_work> which app was it?
Jun 09 23:44:30 <HattCzech_work> (or was it a theme you already had installed?)
Jun 09 23:45:06 <Famic> it seems I have "Masters TW Theme" installed, but I didn't install any theme
Jun 09 23:45:13 <HattCzech_work> that sucks
Jun 09 23:45:21 <HattCzech_work> i'm off... see y'all later
Jun 09 23:46:08 <Famic> really odd... I uninstalled it easy, but I have no idea how it got onto my phone :(
Jun 09 23:48:36 <BigBiff> tiger's revenge?
Jun 09 23:48:47 <BigBiff> ok - filterList question
Jun 09 23:50:14 <BigBiff> noticeUpdatedItems(2 arrays - one before filter, and one after)..... is there a way to set this for both? or am i gonna need to write a conditional for both
Jun 09 23:51:16 <BigBiff> ohh
Jun 09 23:51:23 <BigBiff> there's a model there oops
Jun 09 23:59:05 <kesne> Hey
Jun 09 23:59:09 <kesne> Anybody in here?
Jun 09 23:59:36 <oil> maybe
Jun 10 00:00:00 <kesne> oil! Hey
Jun 10 00:00:03 <kesne> Been a while
Jun 10 00:00:08 <oil> hey
Jun 10 00:00:31 <oil> yeah
Jun 10 00:00:53 <kesne> You've used dashboard before, right?
Jun 10 00:04:34 <oil> yeah, plenty
Jun 10 00:19:47 <torchie> can't find download links for these apps on webos-internals
Jun 10 00:19:53 <torchie> do I have to get them through preware?
Jun 10 00:20:21 <oil> no
Jun 10 00:20:38 <oil> http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/
Jun 10 00:21:44 <oil> but why wouldn't you?
Jun 10 00:21:58 <torchie> well I mean with preware I have to do all of this other stuff
Jun 10 00:22:02 <torchie> so I'm kind of waiting around
Jun 10 00:22:18 <haeffb> you have to do all this other stuff anyhow
Jun 10 00:22:25 <torchie> oh.
Jun 10 00:22:41 <torchie> well then,
Jun 10 00:22:45 <haeffb> i.e dev mode, use WebOSQuickInstall or...
Jun 10 00:22:51 <torchie> yeah I went into dev mode
Jun 10 00:22:58 <torchie> got webosquickinstall and now I'm downloading webosdoctor
Jun 10 00:23:15 <haeffb> use WOSQI to install preware, then you don't have to do the other stuff again
Jun 10 00:23:26 <torchie> can you move the text cursor with the gesture area?
Jun 10 00:23:56 <haeffb> er...no, I don't think so.
Jun 10 00:24:09 <haeffb> you can Option + drag to move it.
Jun 10 00:24:16 <torchie> ok
Jun 10 00:24:59 <torchie> ooh that's hot
Jun 10 00:25:03 <torchie> man I love this phone
Jun 10 00:28:50 <torchie> processing finished download...
Jun 10 00:30:33 <rolsworth> why is palm focusing so much on pdk and games. games imo are a novelty. instead they need to focus on great apps
Jun 10 00:31:38 <torchie> this "processing" is taking a while
Jun 10 00:32:37 <kesne> oil: do you know how to pop up an alert dialog from a dashboard?
Jun 10 00:32:59 <oil> like, into the app?
Jun 10 00:33:25 <oil> or do you mean a popup? (like gps ok thing)
Jun 10 00:33:36 <torchie> I'm getting the feeling there's been an error in this processing
Jun 10 00:33:51 <kesne> Either, actually
Jun 10 00:33:55 <kesne> In the app preferabble
Jun 10 00:33:58 <kesne> *preferably
Jun 10 00:34:13 <oil> i dont know if how i do it is the right way
Jun 10 00:34:32 <oil> but pass the scene assistant to the dash assistant so it can call the alert code with its controller
Jun 10 00:34:48 <kesne> Okay. How would I do that? hehe
Jun 10 00:35:01 <kesne> I havent programmed in about six months, you might have to walk me through it
Jun 10 00:35:02 <kesne> xD
Jun 10 00:35:30 <oil> wow
Jun 10 00:35:49 <kesne> what?
Jun 10 00:36:33 <oil> what have you been doing?
Jun 10 00:36:56 <oil> anyways, when you create the dash, (im sure you can figure out how with some google)
Jun 10 00:37:26 <oil> just pass the assistant to it
Jun 10 00:38:25 <kesne> Okay
Jun 10 00:39:02 <BigBiff> hmmm, cant scene to find the model of a filterList to update it - event.model.item is a no go
Jun 10 00:39:07 <BigBiff> scene = seem
Jun 10 00:40:41 <BigBiff> forums say it does use a model, even when undeclared, but logs turn up nada
Jun 10 00:41:14 <Amaranth> hmm, I always seem to try to do things no one else has
Jun 10 00:41:19 <Amaranth> I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing
Jun 10 00:41:34 <torchie> JAPANESE CHARACTER SUPPORT
Jun 10 00:41:38 <torchie> oh so beautiful
Jun 10 00:41:57 <Amaranth> I'm trying to make a hybrid app with a global plugin that all scenes can access without having to load it over and over in each scene
Jun 10 00:44:16 <torchie> to install with the quick install do you need to put the pre in USB mode or just charge?
Jun 10 00:45:08 <Amaranth> just charge
Jun 10 00:45:20 <torchie> :(
Jun 10 00:45:25 <torchie> quick install gave me connection refused
Jun 10 00:45:34 <torchie> is plugging in the device all you have to do?
Jun 10 00:46:00 <Amaranth> You need to enter the konami code too
Jun 10 00:46:23 <Amaranth> Open the launcher, type "upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart" and enable developer mode
Jun 10 00:46:28 <torchie> did that
Jun 10 00:48:42 <torchie> device management says no device detected
Jun 10 00:49:08 <haeffb> BigBiff: http://www.webos101.com/FilterList
Jun 10 00:49:35 <haeffb> kesne: will your app always be running when the dashboard is displayed?
Jun 10 00:50:02 <kesne> haeffb: what do you mean?
Jun 10 00:50:09 <haeffb> BigBiff: Note that when updating the FilterList widget's model, you cannot call "modelChanged" as in a normal List Widget. Instead, call the filterFunction directly, with an empty filterString :
Jun 10 00:50:44 <haeffb> kesne: if you're app does not have a cardStage displayed when the dashboard is displayed...
Jun 10 00:50:55 <torchie> do I have to "attempt novacom reinstallation
Jun 10 00:50:59 <kesne> haeff: it has a card
Jun 10 00:51:06 <kesne> The dashboard launches off of the card
Jun 10 00:51:10 <haeffb> ok.
Jun 10 00:51:38 <haeffb> just checking, because oil's method won't work if you don't have a stage/scene
Jun 10 00:54:50 * oil asked that at hte beginning :)
Jun 10 00:56:37 <torchie> :(
Jun 10 01:06:30 <haeffb> oil is awesome!
Jun 10 01:06:39 <halfhalo> lies
Jun 10 01:06:41 <JenP> hi all!
Jun 10 01:06:50 <oil> lol
Jun 10 01:06:55 <kesne> JenP!
Jun 10 01:07:06 <JenP> kesne! where the heck have you been?
Jun 10 01:07:12 <kesne> School, heh
Jun 10 01:07:25 <JenP> ok...that's a good excuse
Jun 10 01:07:30 <kesne> Haha
Jun 10 01:07:36 <kesne> Yeah, been hell lately
Jun 10 01:07:43 <kesne> Last week is my last week though, thank god
Jun 10 01:07:53 <JenP> summer break? or graduating?
Jun 10 01:07:59 <kesne> Summer Break
Jun 10 01:08:02 <kesne> I'm still 16 :P
Jun 10 01:08:07 <kesne> I havent been gone THAT long
Jun 10 01:08:13 <JenP> LOL
Jun 10 01:08:23 <JenP> so guys question...
Jun 10 01:08:26 <haeffb> the "other" way would be to send a launch param to the app to show the dialog
Jun 10 01:08:44 <JenP> if you make updates to your dB do you have to tell the user to completely uninstall the app and reinstall?
Jun 10 01:08:58 <kesne> Structural updates?
Jun 10 01:09:17 <JenP> yeah
Jun 10 01:09:39 <torchie> argh device still not found
Jun 10 01:09:43 <kesne> Why not just detect if it's a fresh install and if it is just wipe the databases and run the setup script
Jun 10 01:10:14 <JenP> i didn't know you could do that
Jun 10 01:10:38 <kesne> do what part of it
Jun 10 01:10:41 <kesne> I'm not 100% sure
Jun 10 01:11:07 <JenP> haeffb: what do you think?
Jun 10 01:12:00 <haeffb> JenP: I think it's possible to copy the old data, but I've not done it.
Jun 10 01:21:04 <haeffb> s/possible/preferable
Jun 10 01:21:09 <torchie> so therre's no way to install preware without quick install?
Jun 10 01:22:06 <JenP> nodnod
Jun 10 01:22:09 <torchie> restarted and I'm still getting no device found
Jun 10 01:34:51 <haeffb> torchie: did you get the right doctor?
Jun 10 01:35:36 <torchie> can you get the wrong doctor?
Jun 10 01:35:44 <torchie> I forgot what it did
Jun 10 01:35:49 <torchie> it just said it installed one I think
Jun 10 01:44:06 <haeffb> doctors are different for carrier/pre/pixie, I think
Jun 10 01:44:32 <funkatron> hey, has anyone here purchased a Pre Plus from AT&T at "no-commitment" price?
Jun 10 01:44:41 <rwhitby> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions
Jun 10 01:45:17 <torchie> oh
Jun 10 01:45:23 <torchie> there was a selector
Jun 10 01:45:26 <torchie> I selected sprint pre
Jun 10 01:57:11 <bpadalino> funkatron: no, but the pixi no commitment price seems to be cheaper than the dev phone pixi
Jun 10 01:57:25 <funkatron> bpadalino: and the Pre, yeah
Jun 10 01:57:31 <bpadalino> oh is it ?
Jun 10 01:57:43 <funkatron> Pre Plus no-commit is $399
Jun 10 01:57:48 <bpadalino> interesting
Jun 10 01:57:49 <funkatron> BUT
Jun 10 01:57:52 <bpadalino> someone should tell chuq
Jun 10 01:57:54 <funkatron> try buying one 8)
Jun 10 01:57:59 <bpadalino> oh can't do it ?
Jun 10 01:58:11 <funkatron> I went today to local store
Jun 10 01:58:18 <funkatron> no stores in town (there are 4?) have them
Jun 10 01:58:26 <bpadalino> wow
Jun 10 01:58:28 <funkatron> and they say they can't order them at that price
Jun 10 01:58:44 <funkatron> I called AT&T sales tonight. they said they have none in warehouse
Jun 10 01:59:12 <bpadalino> so .. they're .. sold out ?
Jun 10 01:59:21 <funkatron> I suppose?
Jun 10 02:03:06 <bpadalino> interesting
Jun 10 02:04:30 <funkatron> yeah, I would have one right now if they'd been in stock
Jun 10 02:04:42 <funkatron> but I'm not really surprised by AT&T's fuckery
Jun 10 02:06:59 <bpadalino> want me to ask around town here and see if there are any in stock around me to ship to you ?
Jun 10 02:08:05 <funkatron> ya know, I sure wouldn't mind, dude
Jun 10 02:08:23 <funkatron> hit me up at coj@funkatron.com if you hear sthg
Jun 10 02:08:43 <bpadalino> alright - i'll check it out tomorrow if there are any in stock
Jun 10 02:37:28 <meppum> hey guys, anyone got any experience with the pushAppSupportInfoScene scene?
Jun 10 02:37:39 <meppum> i'm having some trouble and it's starting to drive me nuts
Jun 10 02:39:10 <meppum> <churp, churp, churp>
Jun 10 02:40:30 <LoneStar99> meppum: what u trying 2 do?
Jun 10 02:40:51 <meppum> basically, the scene i want to call is not in app/assistants
Jun 10 02:41:00 <meppum> it's in app/core/assistants
Jun 10 02:41:46 <meppum> so when i normally call scenes in that path i use the parameterized version of pushScene that takes a sceneTemplate variable as the path
Jun 10 02:42:28 <meppum> however, in the config for pushAppSupportInfoScene in appinfo.json, there is only a param for sceneName, not a path (at least none in the docs)
Jun 10 02:42:38 <meppum> is there a way around this, or do i just have to roll my own?
Jun 10 02:45:06 <LoneStar99> have u tried something like ' {"source": "app\/assistants\/bg-assistant.js","scenes": "bg", },' ??
Jun 10 02:45:58 <meppum> one sec, checking
Jun 10 02:46:13 <meppum> you mean in appinfo.json or in sources.json?
Jun 10 02:46:56 <LoneStar99> sources.json
Jun 10 02:47:59 <meppum> iv'e got this
Jun 10 02:48:00 <meppum> {
Jun 10 02:48:00 <meppum>         "scenes": "changelist",
Jun 10 02:48:00 <meppum>         "source": "app/core/assistants/changelist/changelist-assistant.js"
Jun 10 02:48:00 <meppum>     },
Jun 10 02:48:14 <meppum> so yes
Jun 10 02:48:32 <meppum> and if i switch to a scene that is in app/assistants/foo everything works fine
Jun 10 02:50:33 <meppum> any ideas?
Jun 10 02:50:38 <LoneStar99> so everything works fine with "app/assistants/abc" but not with "app/core/assistants/abc"?
Jun 10 02:50:38 <meppum> or am i just out of luck?
Jun 10 02:50:43 <meppum> correct
Jun 10 02:52:31 <LoneStar99> is "core" a folder you made up, or is there something in the api that is in core?
Jun 10 02:52:38 <meppum> folder i made up
Jun 10 02:54:36 <meppum> i put a lot of shared scenes in there that i use for other apps and such. usually when i call a scene in that folder i need to do something like this
Jun 10 02:54:40 <meppum> sceneTemplate: "../core/views/reporter/reporter-scene"
Jun 10 02:54:50 <meppum> when i call pushscene
Jun 10 02:56:04 <meppum> it's like pushAppSuportInfoScene is hardcoded to look only in app/views/foo for templates
Jun 10 02:56:21 <meppum> i was hoping there was another parameter i could define, but i didn't see any in the docs
Jun 10 02:56:52 <LoneStar99> meppum:  let me look at some of my code, might have not using "app/assistants/"
Jun 10 02:57:06 <meppum> that would be great
Jun 10 02:58:16 <meppum> i think what would also work is if i could define the template that gets loaded for an assistant in the assistant, but i think that mojo loads the template and then the assistant so that won't work
Jun 10 02:58:20 <Tibfib> IIRC assistants start at assistant folder so you just need scene-assistant.js and scenes start at teh view level
Jun 10 02:59:54 <LoneStar99> meppum: have the following in sources.json: { "scenes": "support", "source": "app\/assistants\/support-assistant.js" },{"source": "javascript\/support_info.js"}
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 10 02:59:57 2010