**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 13 02:59:56 2010 Jun 13 03:07:48 alright cool I thought I was alone in feeling the app selection was a bit weak Jun 13 03:08:00 rols, lets make apps together Jun 13 03:25:18 that's ,y area of expertise Jun 13 03:25:29 not* Jun 13 03:37:43 hi all Jun 13 03:40:05 rolsworth: They aren't hard to do Jun 13 03:40:25 rolsworth: I had no experience doing any programming before starting with WebOS Jun 13 03:41:53 i am sure you at least knew something about html, java or whatever unless you made something extremely basic Jun 13 03:42:06 Nothing Jun 13 03:42:57 It's not my day job, I have no formal training in it, no education in it. Jun 13 03:43:10 me too Jun 13 03:44:10 what app did you release Jun 13 03:44:21 RadioTime Jun 13 03:44:48 so how exactly did you figure out hot to create that app Jun 13 03:44:52 how Jun 13 03:45:04 http://tigercountrysoftware.com/ Jun 13 03:45:15 Read the forums Jun 13 03:45:38 read http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp Jun 13 03:45:47 Yeah, that helped a lot as well Jun 13 03:45:50 and CSS and HTML Jun 13 03:45:55 And XML Jun 13 03:46:19 come here and ask questions Jun 13 03:46:30 read frank zammetti's book Jun 13 03:46:39 most of all, just do it Jun 13 03:46:45 if i had the time. job takes up too much Jun 13 03:46:50 Yep. A lot of trial and error Jun 13 03:47:15 it becomes addicting... Jun 13 03:47:17 * haeffb works 50-60 hrs per week at my day job Jun 13 03:47:24 rolsworth: Come on. I'm an MD/PhD. I run a research laboratory at Emory University and work for the CDC. Jun 13 03:47:27 writes code some nights, weekends Jun 13 03:47:46 You can sit there and complain about not having any time, that's an excuse to complain. Jun 13 03:48:03 also not too interested in it Jun 13 03:48:13 okkkkkk Jun 13 03:48:17 * haeffb spent the day riding aound with the wife (real estate agent) showing property. Laptop plugged into the 12V DC outlet, writing code... Jun 13 03:48:30 Alright then. Nothing to complain about then. Jun 13 03:48:33 i do accounting/auditing work like 12 hours a day Jun 13 03:48:37 "quality time" Jun 13 03:48:56 got to spend time with the wife Jun 13 03:49:28 haeffb...I think i'm ready to try my first Join in the dB Jun 13 03:49:38 woohoo! Jun 13 03:49:50 hey, did you do a reorderable list in debtfree? Jun 13 03:50:07 no but i did do something kinda cool one sec i'll send you the app Jun 13 03:50:29 rolsworth: Let's just put it this way. If I wanted to, I could live quite comfortably off of the income generated by RadioTime. Jun 13 03:51:19 k haeffb it's in the mail. Jun 13 03:51:32 I made a summary screen from the list. Jun 13 03:54:01 got it. Jun 13 03:54:22 ok do a calc, then hit save from command menu Jun 13 03:54:32 after saving select view from command menu Jun 13 03:54:51 you get the list...tap on the item...you'll get a summary Jun 13 03:56:31 something broken Jun 13 03:56:40 ? Jun 13 03:57:00 what's wrong Jun 13 03:57:51 deleted & reinstalled = now it's working Jun 13 03:58:09 oh yeah sorry Jun 13 03:58:18 nice! Jun 13 03:58:22 you like it? Jun 13 03:58:49 yep, that's really sweet. Jun 13 03:59:01 i'm so happy you like it Jun 13 03:59:58 here's a suggestion, though. Jun 13 04:00:02 kk Jun 13 04:00:17 Make the "View Saved Credit Cards" the opening scene. Jun 13 04:00:26 really? Jun 13 04:00:38 I would. Jun 13 04:00:58 but everythings generated off the calculator Jun 13 04:01:27 It would mean changing a bunch... ? Jun 13 04:01:35 no not at all Jun 13 04:01:55 and/or if they don't have any cards, i.e. first use, open to the enter data screen Jun 13 04:02:06 ok that makes sense Jun 13 04:02:14 but then after that, open to the saved cards scene Jun 13 04:02:23 so I have a "wallet" full of "cards" Jun 13 04:02:30 good idea Jun 13 04:03:27 i'm ready to put a 'catagory' list in the saved data card this way i can play with joins in the dB Jun 13 04:03:31 your "Add a Card" dialog replaces the original scene Jun 13 04:03:52 Yeah i can see that Jun 13 04:04:50 ok, now that I have you thinking... I'm off to bed. later. Jun 13 04:05:08 nite Jun 13 04:11:06 RadioTime is about to get custom streams... Jun 13 04:19:55 reality9110: custom streams, like amatuer radio? Jun 13 04:23:23 wait what Jun 13 04:23:25 you made radiotime? Jun 13 04:24:32 reality9110: has the exclusive right for radiotime on webos devices, if not mistaken Jun 13 04:30:16 Yes. I made radiotime Jun 13 04:31:10 what are the custom feeds like? Jun 13 04:31:43 Entering of any stream you want manually. Jun 13 04:32:19 thats really cool Jun 13 04:32:20 If there is a station out there that RadioTime doesn't carry, you'll be able to play it. Well, as long as WebOS supports it audio-wise. Jun 13 04:32:40 like a shoutcast feed Jun 13 04:32:51 Well, we carry most shoutcast feeds already Jun 13 04:33:04 k Jun 13 04:33:06 The ones listed on SHOUTcast.com at least. Jun 13 04:33:17 But if there's a private one out there that you listen to, you'll be able to add it. Jun 13 04:34:21 cool Jun 13 04:34:30 I did something similar in BroadCAST Radio. So, just reusing the code Jun 13 04:34:50 i use the shoutcast api in one of my apps Jun 13 04:35:10 sounds like a cool feature Jun 13 04:35:12 Kind of a pain merging a local database and the remote database into one list, but, I got it. Jun 13 04:37:23 listening to internet radio know, radio.com Jun 13 04:38:49 That's just AOL Radio Jun 13 04:39:16 teah Jun 13 04:39:20 yeah Jun 13 04:39:41 http://radiotime.com/ Much better Jun 13 04:40:20 yeah will check it our Jun 13 04:42:06 If HP adds WMA and mms support, that'll basically mean every single station in the world with the exception of a few flash streams Jun 13 04:44:17 killer Jun 13 04:46:19 reality9110: what is best programming language to write in? Jun 13 04:48:16 excited for the germany australia game tommorrow, should be a good one Jun 13 04:48:32 LoneStar99: For what? Jun 13 04:48:45 World cup Jun 13 04:48:50 No, programming language Jun 13 04:49:21 Best programming language for what? Jun 13 04:49:22 I think bets programming language definitely depends on the setting. Jun 13 04:49:27 best*... Jun 13 04:49:54 oh language, like your favorite to code? Jun 13 04:50:19 I'm not a coder. Jun 13 04:50:25 So you're asking the wrong person Jun 13 04:50:57 * HattCzech agrees with Tibfib Jun 13 04:52:23 guess it was a dumb question, just it all depends on what a person is trying to code and on what device or OS Jun 13 04:54:37 LoneStar99: i've used c, c++, c#, javascript, asp, php, and sql in my many projects Jun 13 04:54:59 i started with c (and the variants), so i'm more familiar with those Jun 13 04:55:11 but i like javascript quite a bit... allows me a lot of flexibility Jun 13 04:55:59 the best programming language is Verilog :) Jun 13 04:56:05 HattCzech: have you ddone any PDK coding yet? Jun 13 04:56:13 i started with js - not sure that was a good idea - c, c# looks very foreign Jun 13 04:56:25 haven't yet Jun 13 04:56:41 i'm trying to start working on a service, though, so i was considering using pdk Jun 13 04:56:50 got interested in javascript when ajax came about Jun 13 04:56:55 but i think in my situation, the service is what i need, so pdk will need to wait Jun 13 04:57:18 service as in web service? Jun 13 04:57:27 javascript just looks like "another" programming language to me :) Jun 13 04:57:42 they all look the same to me now (for the most part) Jun 13 04:58:04 a webos system service, like what's used for preware and those apps Jun 13 04:58:08 what're some of the popular pdk apps out right now? Jun 13 04:58:18 * Tibfib points at ea's games Jun 13 04:58:20 have noticed that php and js have many similarities Jun 13 04:58:58 HattCzech: got you, waiting for microphone api in webos Jun 13 04:59:00 so the 3d stuff Jun 13 04:59:09 yeah, php started frustrating me a bit when i was playing with arrays and stuff, but i finally got that kinda figured out :) Jun 13 04:59:17 BigBiff: so far mostly games Jun 13 04:59:26 BigBiff: the only pdk apps out now AFAIK are games Jun 13 04:59:34 i c Jun 13 04:59:45 Eventually we might get some that aren't Jun 13 04:59:59 was wondering what else would need those systems Jun 13 05:00:18 thinking of building a PDK app, that is not a game, but have no idea yet Jun 13 05:00:27 big calculations...codeslaw is porting his paintr app... Jun 13 05:00:40 ahh - that makes sense Jun 13 05:01:07 so if someone ever made a decent starmap... Jun 13 05:01:16 that would probly be pdk Jun 13 05:01:38 * BigBiff really likes droid starmap Jun 13 05:01:46 it would probably have to be at least a hybrid Jun 13 05:01:54 ...well i'm off. night all Jun 13 05:02:05 latr Tibfib Jun 13 05:02:34 * BigBiff nudges rwhitby to add a compass to pre Jun 13 05:02:50 one of his many.. Jun 13 05:03:03 BigBiff: I'll get out my soldering iron right now ... Jun 13 05:03:07 hehe Jun 13 05:03:10 lol Jun 13 05:03:21 but why stop at a compass. I'll put a six axis gyro in there Jun 13 05:03:27 and a pressure sensor too Jun 13 05:03:29 well sure Jun 13 05:03:40 maybe even a squib, just for laughs Jun 13 05:03:45 haha Jun 13 05:03:47 you have no idea how many times ive thought " Jun 13 05:03:52 wow i need a gyroscope" Jun 13 05:03:58 and a robotic arm that can plug the oil leak Jun 13 05:04:24 shake your Pre too aggressively, and the squib will be fired Jun 13 05:04:34 i like it Jun 13 05:05:08 rwhitby: i hate to keep bothering you, but i need a bit of help with the services for webos... Jun 13 05:05:17 * rwhitby is waiting for the squib in appInstallService to go off, with the abuse I'm inflicting on it at the moment Jun 13 05:05:28 i want to make something very basic... so i'm trying to find something with the minimum number of files Jun 13 05:05:33 HattCzech: which of the existing services have you perused in detail? Jun 13 05:05:55 upstartmgr, govnah, and freetetherd Jun 13 05:06:18 look at saverestore, it's the simplest. all it does is list directories and call scripts Jun 13 05:06:31 okay Jun 13 05:08:13 * rwhitby got the App Catalog client to install Preware for him last night :) Jun 13 05:09:19 how? Jun 13 05:11:00 added a preware.org CA and inserted a record in installHistory.db, then restarted LunaDownloadMgr Jun 13 05:11:29 heheh, nice Jun 13 05:12:14 going to get MetaDoctor to do it on flash, so Preware can be automatically installed on first boot. Jun 13 05:12:25 awesome Jun 13 05:12:39 rwhitby: is there why to build an ipgk using the "palm-package" utility from an external program not being eclipse or komodo? Jun 13 05:13:02 LoneStar99: sure, just call the script Jun 13 05:13:16 palm-package is just a command line tool Jun 13 05:13:31 on a unix system? Jun 13 05:13:32 call it with the proper args and it'll work fine Jun 13 05:13:44 assuming there is one for unix, yes Jun 13 05:13:50 (i'm on windows, so i'm not sure) Jun 13 05:14:40 there is a palm-package.jar file i believe for linux development Jun 13 05:14:44 palm-package is just a script which calls a jar file Jun 13 05:15:02 what would be the proper arguments? Jun 13 05:15:15 LoneStar99: have you read the Palm documentation on it? Jun 13 05:15:53 is there some proper docs on it? Jun 13 05:16:02 "Usage: palm-package [OPTION...] APP_DIR" for starerts Jun 13 05:16:06 starters* Jun 13 05:16:33 HattCzech: do you have a link? Jun 13 05:17:06 LoneStar99: you write a search app, don't you? Jun 13 05:17:18 yeah, i do Jun 13 05:17:26 http://webos.pastebin.com/LMBFWKsU Jun 13 05:17:43 i think that was a hint :) hahaha Jun 13 05:18:05 that's the output when i run it from the command line Jun 13 05:18:09 LoneStar99: try typing "palm-package" into it, assuming it accesses google ... Jun 13 05:19:27 ok found it, but guess what i am trying to figure out, is how to make it into a webservice Jun 13 05:19:30 rwhitby: so luna_methods.c is where i'm looking for the main content, right? Jun 13 05:19:38 HattCzech: yep Jun 13 05:19:49 the rest of the files are pretty much boilerplate Jun 13 05:20:11 so 500 lines is the simple one, eh? ;) Jun 13 05:22:13 rwhitby: for example Ares is web-based so how do you assume it builds the ipkg. just need some opinions Jun 13 05:22:42 LoneStar99: I assume they just call the jar file on the server or on the local client Jun 13 05:24:11 so a .sh script properly formed on a java server calls the "palm-package.jar" file and it should work, is that right? Jun 13 05:32:24 sent an email to palm regarding what I have been developing, and they pretty much wrote "Packaging really needs to go through palm-package" Jun 13 05:33:46 but i may be clouded in the mind to figure way of calling the "palm-package" from a script Jun 13 05:38:24 rwhitby: who wrote the service interface for govnah? was it you or oil? Jun 13 05:41:57 HattCzech: I did the services for preware, govnah, and saverestore Jun 13 05:42:42 okay Jun 13 05:43:01 if i create a service, can i still have it running when the app closes? Jun 13 05:43:22 since it's separate, as long as i don't close it manually, it should still run, correct? Jun 13 05:43:35 (until a restart or a call to close it) Jun 13 06:09:48 HattCzech: did you find a solution? Jun 13 06:12:51 nope Jun 13 06:13:05 services look more difficult than i anticipated :/ Jun 13 06:14:13 have not looked at those services,but i assume they are intense Jun 13 06:14:24 indeed they are Jun 13 06:14:49 and all i want to do is call some palm services :/ Jun 13 06:15:17 non api services i assume? Jun 13 06:16:06 yup Jun 13 06:16:27 well, they're palm-space api services Jun 13 06:16:41 but i need them to be in the background, so i need them to be from a service Jun 13 06:17:44 k, what is easy for one is nuts to the other Jun 13 06:18:09 it's nuts to me :) hehe Jun 13 06:18:13 HattCzech: all the webosinternals services run continuously, under control of upstart Jun 13 06:18:28 okay, good Jun 13 06:18:34 they sit there at select() waiting for a dbus call most of the time Jun 13 06:18:52 a tiny bit of RAM overhead, no CPU overhead. Jun 13 06:19:05 i'm fine with that Jun 13 06:19:32 kudos for making these services Jun 13 06:20:22 they're much more complicated than i would like them to be :) Jun 13 06:28:58 bleh Jun 13 06:29:14 debating wether to spend 100 on a sub for my car Jun 13 06:29:37 I mean, its a 100 sub… but its better than nothing, which is what I have now Jun 13 06:30:44 But its also a 100 sub.... Jun 13 06:31:03 anyone played with godmode in win7? Jun 13 06:31:13 But a 100 sub that fits under my seat Jun 13 06:31:19 DECISIONS Jun 13 06:32:11 subs are meh Jun 13 06:32:24 my car has none Jun 13 06:32:34 quality speakers will make more of a difference Jun 13 06:32:39 Have those Jun 13 06:33:00 but do you have ground effects lights? Jun 13 06:33:04 HattCzech: have had godmode installed for months, but have not messed with it, all it seems like the ultimate control panel Jun 13 06:33:16 but no sub, so they don't do anything in the low end when turned up Jun 13 06:33:24 can you remove the tag at the end of the folder? Jun 13 06:33:39 "rename folder to godmode.{...}" Jun 13 06:33:39 halfhalo: if you can't sleep at nights thinking of the 100 sub, then buy it Jun 13 06:33:59 but that whole section of crap is visible and really annoying Jun 13 06:34:08 HattCzech: no clus Jun 13 06:34:08 well, I mean I just started looking 20 minutes ago Jun 13 06:34:10 :p Jun 13 06:34:19 buy it Jun 13 06:34:26 that requires money Jun 13 06:34:34 which I wont have till tuesday Jun 13 06:34:36 or wed Jun 13 06:34:41 or maybe fraturday Jun 13 06:34:46 lol Jun 13 06:35:05 then wait until tuesday+ Jun 13 06:35:37 but its a powered rca sub that will fit under my drivers seat and gets routed up pretty nicely to the stereo Jun 13 06:36:43 do not trust windows enough to screw with godmode Jun 13 06:36:58 halfhalo: buy it Jun 13 06:37:07 =) Jun 13 06:37:17 I am… maybe… depends on the power situation Jun 13 06:37:28 the consumer devil says so Jun 13 06:37:47 consumer devil's got nothing on my impulsiveness Jun 13 06:39:05 impulsiveness is the devil, but what is not Jun 13 06:39:11 crack Jun 13 06:39:17 its the devils cousin Jun 13 06:39:32 or crystal meth Jun 13 06:39:44 another cousin Jun 13 07:07:45 alright GN all Jun 13 07:12:25 hrm. so anyone gotten around to making one of these apps that lets you remotely take control of your phone and lock the screen, or display messages, and get its gps coordinates, etc ? (like iphone) Jun 13 08:17:06 Good morning Jun 13 08:24:54 Anyone who knows how to get keypres information? If you pres a key on the keyboard and you wonna know what key ? Jun 13 10:10:25 hey Jun 13 10:10:50 sold my palm pixi today Jun 13 10:10:51 $150 ne Jun 13 10:11:09 didn't like the pixi? Jun 13 10:12:54 i did Jun 13 10:12:58 screen was too small Jun 13 10:13:02 upgraded to the htc evo 4g Jun 13 10:14:02 quite an upgrade in terms of screensize Jun 13 10:18:14 how's the 16 bit display look for photos compared to the 24 bit Pre? Jun 13 10:21:56 yeah Jun 13 10:30:12 I read a post on precentral.net about the avo 4g. he had returned because he missed webos Jun 13 10:30:17 evo* Jun 13 10:30:28 yeah, i've read some comments too Jun 13 10:30:34 not because of the hardware Jun 13 10:30:39 of course :) Jun 13 10:30:44 Nope but Android Jun 13 12:19:58 HotDP: Mojo.Event.listen(this.controller.document, "keydown", this.onKeyDownHandler, true); Jun 13 12:20:19 Thanks Jun 13 12:20:50 but that gives you EVERY keypress anywhere in the app... Jun 13 12:21:20 Thats ok Jun 13 12:21:22 oh, it's my birthday today Jun 13 12:21:23 :) Jun 13 12:21:33 Congratz Jun 13 12:21:43 And happy birth day Jun 13 12:21:44 happy birthday, swisstomcat! Jun 13 12:21:48 thank you Jun 13 12:22:00 Soo... you wish a new pre plus? Jun 13 12:22:07 :P Jun 13 12:22:28 i already have one :) Jun 13 12:24:32 ohh hehe Jun 13 12:27:40 a new pre plus pro ?] Jun 13 12:28:39 a brand-new C40 Jun 13 12:28:52 and a hurricane tablet Jun 13 12:28:54 whatever that is Jun 13 12:29:34 I am exited about if it will have C40 "name" Jun 13 12:48:28 palm pre plus power pro Jun 13 12:49:08 palm pre plus mark II Jun 13 12:55:16 * haeffb seriously uses software called "Bid Tabs Plus Pro" Jun 13 12:55:41 what does it do Jun 13 12:56:21 er, wait. "Bid Tabs Pro Plus" Jun 13 12:57:06 analyzes historical bids on DOT construction contracts for cost estimation Jun 13 12:58:12 http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Design/ProjectDev/EngineeringApplications/BidTabs.htm Jun 13 12:58:38 civil engineers aren't the most creative people in the world. Jun 13 13:10:30 haeffb , what is your job function Jun 13 13:10:32 ? Jun 13 13:36:17 work for a state dept of transportation - designing roadway projects Jun 13 13:53:05 astroid explorer hayabusa reentry in a few minutes Jun 13 14:14:11 Can the listSelctor have "multiline" on the lines slected? Or only one line and then... ? Jun 13 14:39:30 morning Jun 13 14:40:10 swisstomcat: bringing a plague back to earth? Jun 13 14:40:15 BigBiff_pre: ditto Jun 13 14:40:30 HotDP: afaik, only one line can be selected. Jun 13 14:41:23 haeffb , thanks Jun 13 14:42:19 I'd like to see someone post some code for a basic dial ui Jun 13 14:45:08 I know it's not part of the palm look, but it would be cool nonetheless Jun 13 14:46:23 "basic dial ui" ??? Jun 13 14:46:50 like many of the apple apps Jun 13 14:47:46 drag a dial around as a selector Jun 13 14:48:09 drag on a dial I should say Jun 13 14:48:15 * haeffb doesn't know apple apps Jun 13 14:48:59 apple's got so many apps Jun 13 14:49:07 I guess that's why they call them APPle HOHOHOHO Jun 13 14:49:28 picture manually moving the hand on a clock Jun 13 14:54:36 palm probably couldn't make their own as a widget due to patent Jun 13 14:55:10 god, patented widgets? Jun 13 14:55:28 when will the madness stop Jun 13 15:45:28 bigbiff_pre: custom widgets should be possible Jun 13 15:46:08 ya.. I just don't have skills for a dial widget :-) Jun 13 15:51:04 something like the apple date/number picker? Jun 13 15:52:01 I can't think of what that looks like Jun 13 15:52:42 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/388814/date-picker-for-iphone-web-application Jun 13 15:53:07 and Jun 13 15:53:08 http://cubiq.org/spinning-wheel-on-webkit-for-iphone-ipod-touch Jun 13 15:53:56 oh Jun 13 15:54:14 no... that's just a scroller with fades Jun 13 15:54:44 I'm thinking like a draggable compass hand Jun 13 15:55:03 hmm Jun 13 15:55:08 i've seen a phone dialer app Jun 13 15:55:11 rotary phone Jun 13 15:55:15 360 degree dragging would be tough Jun 13 15:55:19 really? Jun 13 15:55:21 yeah Jun 13 15:55:43 http://dolphinking-software.com/wordpress/tag/rotary-dialer/ Jun 13 15:56:24 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4046&view=next Jun 13 15:56:49 ya.. I'd love to see that code Jun 13 16:04:53 if you asked dolphinking he might share... Jun 13 16:05:24 I know that he open source'd cow tasks when he moved to android Jun 13 16:05:25 or get an idea if you look at the clock app Jun 13 16:09:06 he not doing webos anymore? Jun 13 16:17:07 I don't think so. Jun 13 16:17:17 @dullgeek yeah, I am done. I did love the palm pre, but things were just moving too slow at the time. Android on Nexus One FTW! Jun 13 16:17:48 bbl Jun 13 16:20:19 http://forums.precentral.net/2190330-post110.html Jun 13 16:29:50 morning all Jun 13 16:32:20 hi JenP Jun 13 16:34:45 hi BigBiff_pre Jun 13 16:36:07 morning folks Jun 13 16:36:45 morning haeffb Jun 13 16:42:10 so I have to have 10 posts to see the source? heh, I should get busy Jun 13 16:45:51 well, that's source for the RTM app Jun 13 16:45:58 not for the rotary dial Jun 13 17:04:28 seems like lots of folks are jumping ship Jun 13 17:04:52 The evo is a tempting device Jun 13 17:05:06 I may have given it a shot if it was actually rootable Jun 13 17:05:14 haeffb: I started on java yet? Jun 13 17:05:24 i=you Jun 13 17:06:26 not even close Jun 13 17:06:46 evo has no gyroscope.... not sure how one could survive with no gyro Jun 13 17:07:58 I mean in these crazy times of oil spills and terrorism Jun 13 17:08:01 is ... that a joke? ;x Jun 13 17:08:06 ah, yes Jun 13 17:08:11 my sarcasm detector is off today Jun 13 17:08:18 I blame this cold. Jun 13 17:08:18 hehe Jun 13 17:10:37 but after I heard an apple iphone call the new model 'stunning' in complete seriousness it's also making it harder to judge sarcasm Jun 13 17:10:42 err Jun 13 17:10:44 apple fanboy* Jun 13 17:12:21 It actually does look pretty killer Jun 13 17:12:39 it's a nice upgrade over the previous, but 'stunning?' that's - a bit much. Jun 13 17:15:27 I have apple envy only for a few apps: Jun 13 17:16:14 I have hardware envy of the evo, hdmi output from a portable media device like a cell phone is something I've always wanted Jun 13 17:16:24 tuner, a few other mic related apps, and computer remote interface is sposed to work well Jun 13 17:16:58 ya, hdmi out is cool, but I'd never use it Jun 13 17:20:13 when tv's start coming standard with wifi, there won't be a need Jun 13 17:20:46 no, because now you're reliant on yet another device to actually handle all the codecs and containers Jun 13 17:20:49 ;x Jun 13 17:21:15 heh, I can always hope Jun 13 17:22:07 although dtv computer media thing is cool Jun 13 17:39:08 * sugardave is not leaving. Jun 13 17:39:44 in fact, I have a good shot at doing a freelance app for some dude Jun 13 17:53:45 Do you know handleKeyPressEvent: function(event) { ? Jun 13 17:58:13 nope, but it sounds interesting Jun 13 17:59:23