**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 21 02:59:56 2010
Jun 21 03:08:43 <HattCzech> if i want to make rows thinner, is it the palm-row or palm-row-wrapper i need to edit the css on?
Jun 21 03:10:12 <Tibfib> http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d3df553ef0133f0784471970b-pi
Jun 21 03:16:04 <sugardave> palm-row
Jun 21 03:16:17 <Tibfib> okay, last one: http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d3df553ef013480b9e099970c-pi
Jun 21 03:30:52 <HattCzech> hmmm, okay, got the rows the size i want... but when i select them... they expand
Jun 21 03:31:08 <HattCzech> i tried palm-row.selected but that didn't work
Jun 21 03:31:10 <HattCzech> other thoughts?
Jun 21 03:56:26 <Bmyers> haeffb_pre: how often u figured you published app counts update?
Jun 21 03:56:32 <Bmyers> once every 2 hours?
Jun 21 03:56:54 <haeffb_pre> daily?
Jun 21 03:57:09 <Bmyers> no not that one
Jun 21 03:57:22 <Bmyers> the other one
Jun 21 03:57:32 <Bmyers> with your apps and "settled" downloads
Jun 21 03:58:08 <HattCzech> 2 hours
Jun 21 03:58:18 <HattCzech> that's what i heard
Jun 21 03:58:27 <Bmyers> ok. about what i saw too
Jun 21 03:59:46 <HattCzech> anyone know what i need to modify in css to make a selected row not expand to a larger size?
Jun 21 03:59:52 <HattCzech> palm-row.selected didn't work
Jun 21 04:21:00 <BigBiff> anyone know a good computer internals irc channel?
Jun 21 04:55:48 <sugardave> BigBiff: there are OTHER channels?!
Jun 21 04:56:02 <BigBiff> hehe
Jun 21 04:56:19 <BigBiff> I've trashed me laptop :(
Jun 21 04:56:23 <sugardave> lame
Jun 21 04:56:44 <BigBiff> ya
Jun 21 04:57:06 <BigBiff> took it apart to clean the fan - fold
Jun 21 04:57:25 <sugardave> I don't do laptop maintenance
Jun 21 04:58:08 <BigBiff> apparently I don't either
Jun 21 04:58:35 <rwhitby> well, not successfully ;)
Jun 21 05:01:05 <BigBiff> I'd be ok... cept I found a cable that looks like a mouse pad cable beside me :o
Jun 21 05:02:27 <BigBiff> I'm sure it'll be fine without..
Jun 21 05:02:34 <BigBiff> :/
Jun 21 05:03:13 <rwhitby> you always have some parts left over
Jun 21 05:03:26 <rwhitby> they put spares in there, just in case
Jun 21 05:03:27 <HattCzech> that's what the cleaning is all about, isn't it?
Jun 21 05:03:42 <HattCzech> removing the unnecessary items?
Jun 21 05:03:48 <BigBiff> YES
Jun 21 05:04:25 <sugardave> a mouse pad....cable?
Jun 21 05:04:31 <sugardave> now that's interesting
Jun 21 05:04:33 <BigBiff> those crazy chinese and their spare parts
Jun 21 05:05:10 <BigBiff> touch pad .. whatever
Jun 21 05:06:09 <sugardave> that's much less interesting
Jun 21 05:06:18 <BigBiff> hehe
Jun 21 05:06:35 <Tman> lol
Jun 21 05:08:11 <BigBiff> don't mess with me, I'm fragile
Jun 21 05:08:54 <BigBiff> jacked up comp + no nicogum = bad times
Jun 21 05:15:24 <sugardave> arg, pixi resolution screws up my awesome custom dialog
Jun 21 05:50:31 <discombobulate> hrm
Jun 21 05:53:29 <sugardave> alright, fixed that...CSS knowledge approaching familiarity-level
Jun 21 06:05:55 <HotDP> Good morning
Jun 21 06:06:05 <sugardave> good morning
Jun 21 06:08:34 <noaXess> good morning
Jun 21 06:09:14 <noaXess> last night, my pre goes down, battery empty... now i charge it.. but can't power on it.. is that normalif the battery was empty?
Jun 21 06:11:20 <BigBiff> any charge indications?
Jun 21 06:12:46 <noaXess> BigBiff: no.. :(
Jun 21 06:12:58 <sugardave> how long have you been charging it from zero?
Jun 21 06:12:58 <noaXess> normaly a big battery is on the screen.. but now.. nothing.. :(
Jun 21 06:13:16 <noaXess> sugardave: now.. about 30 minutes
Jun 21 06:13:17 <sugardave> it takes about 15 minutes or so before you can power it on again
Jun 21 06:13:19 <sugardave> hmmm
Jun 21 06:13:26 <noaXess> so just wait...?
Jun 21 06:13:30 <noaXess> and hope ...
Jun 21 06:13:30 <BigBiff> sounds like my comp
Jun 21 06:13:38 <sugardave> well, I think it should be ready to power on by now
Jun 21 06:13:45 <HotDP> So no indication of charge at all? Hot transformer or something?
Jun 21 06:14:03 <noaXess> HotDP: the disply is hot.. yes
Jun 21 06:14:06 <HotDP> Have you removed the battery for 1 min?
Jun 21 06:14:20 <noaXess> HotDP: not yet..
Jun 21 06:14:25 <HotDP> Try..
Jun 21 06:14:29 <HotDP> I have had some issue
Jun 21 06:14:35 <HotDP> It would not power on
Jun 21 06:14:38 <HotDP> And was all black
Jun 21 06:14:56 <noaXess> ok removed batt now.. 50, 49, 48, 47 :)
Jun 21 06:15:09 <noaXess> had that never before..
Jun 21 06:15:45 <noaXess> some times, the battery was empty, but then i pluged in the charge cable and the big battery comes available on the screen and after few minutes the pre has starting up automatically
Jun 21 06:16:03 <HotDP> But if the phone is hot. Something is happening :)
Jun 21 06:17:41 <noaXess> ok.. battery is placed back in.. and charging it.. and wait.. maybe it will come up automatically..
Jun 21 06:17:48 <noaXess> breakfast... ;) bbl..
Jun 21 06:18:09 <HotDP> :)
Jun 21 06:18:44 <sugardave> good luck and good night
Jun 21 06:21:01 <HotDP> good night
Jun 21 06:50:35 <swisstomcat> morning
Jun 21 07:15:06 <HotDP> morning swisstomcat
Jun 21 07:15:15 <swisstomcat> morning hotdp
Jun 21 07:15:23 <swisstomcat> i'm finishing up the demo
Jun 21 07:15:46 <HotDP> demo?
Jun 21 07:15:55 <swisstomcat> from the video
Jun 21 07:16:16 <HotDP> ahh sounds great
Jun 21 07:16:24 <HotDP> He said it would be ready in the weekend
Jun 21 07:16:31 <HotDP> but i guess he lied
Jun 21 07:19:32 <EmmettLollis> hi swisstomcat
Jun 21 07:19:40 <swisstomcat> hi emmettlollis
Jun 21 07:19:48 <EmmettLollis> hows it going?
Jun 21 07:24:57 <oil> palmhotapps.com has a bit of a css problem in the countdown clock :)
Jun 21 07:25:23 <swisstomcat> heh
Jun 21 07:25:34 <swisstomcat> they never tested it with <10  days :)
Jun 21 07:25:53 <HotDP> lol
Jun 21 07:26:03 <noaXess> where can i get the latest webOSdonctor.jar file?
Jun 21 07:26:06 <HotDP> 81 days left ? :)
Jun 21 07:26:13 <swisstomcat> 08 days left
Jun 21 07:26:18 <noaXess> my pre won't come up.. ;(
Jun 21 07:26:34 <swisstomcat> noaXess: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions
Jun 21 07:26:55 <swisstomcat> i had to replace mine too, noaXess .. touchscreen troubles
Jun 21 07:27:08 <noaXess> swisstomcat: the whole pre?
Jun 21 07:27:15 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 21 07:27:20 <noaXess> what the fu...
Jun 21 07:27:34 <noaXess> last night bat. was empty.. and now.. can't get it back..
Jun 21 07:27:56 <swisstomcat> nothing happens if you plug it in?
Jun 21 07:28:00 <noaXess> need i this one? 1.3 O2 Germany, UK and  Ireland / Movistar Spain
Jun 21 07:28:11 <noaXess> swisstomcat: nothing.. no big bat symbol on the screen..
Jun 21 07:28:17 <swisstomcat> that's fine
Jun 21 07:28:24 <swisstomcat> just wait a few minutes
Jun 21 07:28:36 <noaXess> done that more than once..
Jun 21 07:28:36 <swisstomcat> as soon as it's charged enough it will boot up
Jun 21 07:28:45 <swisstomcat> just leave it plugged in
Jun 21 07:28:50 <noaXess> one time i saw the palm logo.. but nothing else comes up
Jun 21 07:29:54 <HotDP> Is it possible to turn Pre on without battery?
Jun 21 07:30:06 <swisstomcat> probably
Jun 21 07:31:37 <noaXess> and now.. what should i doo??.. if i plugin the power cable.. the device get's hot.. seams it will be charged.. but nothing happends.. wait how long? 30min 30 hours?
Jun 21 07:31:41 <oil> usb
Jun 21 07:32:01 <noaXess> wow.. smart answer..
Jun 21 07:32:06 <HotDP> Anyone who can help with keyboard input? I need to use Sym even when i am not in a textfield?
Jun 21 07:32:38 <swisstomcat> noaXess: i thought it's like 5-10min
Jun 21 07:32:54 <swisstomcat> before the battery symbol goes away and it boots
Jun 21 07:33:12 <noaXess> swisstomcat: but i don't get a battery symbol after 30min..
Jun 21 07:33:22 <noaXess> can i boot it only with usb, without battery?
Jun 21 07:33:27 <swisstomcat> i think so
Jun 21 07:33:46 <noaXess> and how?
Jun 21 07:34:24 <swisstomcat> just remove the battery and plug in the usb-connector
Jun 21 07:36:06 <noaXess> and then? press power button? nothing happends... damn
Jun 21 07:36:18 <swisstomcat> yeah, power button
Jun 21 07:37:09 <swisstomcat> kaputt?
Jun 21 07:37:33 <noaXess> if i plugin power usb without battery.. the device get's hot.. grrrrrrrrrrrr
Jun 21 07:37:48 <swisstomcat> maybe the power button is broken
Jun 21 07:38:11 <noaXess> no.. cause one time i get the palm logo..
Jun 21 07:38:20 <HotDP> shouldn it turn on automaticly?
Jun 21 07:38:41 <HotDP> And with USB it should show a logo like its connected
Jun 21 08:00:12 <swisstomcat> hotdp: somehow the transitions won't work .. the rest is ok
Jun 21 08:00:56 <HotDP> ok, can i have?
Jun 21 08:01:16 <swisstomcat> how much?
Jun 21 08:01:25 <swisstomcat> do you pay?
Jun 21 08:01:39 <HotDP> I will give you 10 euro :D
Jun 21 08:19:55 <EmmettLollis> hmm, i need to setup a variable thats visible to my entire app.. i created a js file that holds global functions that i call from the scenes in my app but i created a date variable in there but it's not visible to the scenes... should i be trying another method to setup a global?
Jun 21 08:22:42 <EmmettLollis> maybe i should use a cookie
Jun 21 08:23:29 <swisstomcat> you could use global variables
Jun 21 08:27:28 <HotDP> I use cookies to starte information but load the values in global variables on load
Jun 21 08:27:33 <HotDP> *store
Jun 21 08:30:28 <EmmettLollis> i dont really need to store it, i'm just keying off it in my db's so i need a global to keep track between the records
Jun 21 08:31:30 <EmmettLollis> i'm guessing that when i define it in my js something must be killing it before my scenes load
Jun 21 08:35:08 <tokyoahead> hi all... I have a problem: I switched from Gentoo to WebOS and now the editor for crontab (crontab -e) changed. I would like to switch it to nano. How can I do that?
Jun 21 08:35:43 <swisstomcat> not sure if i understand the question
Jun 21 08:36:50 <tokyoahead> if I enter crontab -e, the crontab file is edited with an editor softare that I do not know how to use, anyhow it;s not nano. I would like to change this so that an editor that I know how to use is called when I type crontab -e to edit the crontab file
Jun 21 08:37:30 <tokyoahead> oh I am in the wrong channel sorry.
Jun 21 08:37:38 <tokyoahead> By brain is wrecked
Jun 21 08:37:41 <tokyoahead> duh
Jun 21 09:47:10 <HotDP> Anyone who can help with keyboard input? I need to use Sym even when i am not in a textfield?
Jun 21 10:08:13 <warpdesign_> hi
Jun 21 10:28:11 <swisstomcat> hi
Jun 21 10:51:06 <warpdesign_> what's up ?
Jun 21 10:51:24 <swisstomcat> working on my tuts+ app
Jun 21 10:51:30 <swisstomcat> ready for beta soon
Jun 21 10:54:14 <swisstomcat> wann test?
Jun 21 11:00:59 <warpdesign_> yes
Jun 21 11:01:04 <warpdesign_> I'll have some testing for you too
Jun 21 11:01:36 <swisstomcat> i have to squash some bugs before it's ready
Jun 21 11:13:14 <warpdesign_> ok
Jun 21 11:17:43 <swisstomcat> ready
Jun 21 11:17:56 <swisstomcat> http://www.inorbit.ch/upload/com.inorbit.tutsplus.beta_1.0.0_all.ipk
Jun 21 11:46:27 <haeffb> morning
Jun 21 11:48:34 <HotDP> Morning http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1930&Itemid=308
Jun 21 11:48:44 <swisstomcat> morning
Jun 21 11:48:51 <HotDP> forget the copy/paste link
Jun 21 11:49:00 <swisstomcat> new tuts+ app is ready to test: http://www.inorbit.ch/upload/com.inorbit.tutsplus.beta_1.0.0_all.ipk
Jun 21 11:49:56 <haeffb> cool...
Jun 21 11:51:46 <haeffb> German for edit? as in edit folder?
Jun 21 11:52:05 <swisstomcat> Bearbeiten
Jun 21 11:52:17 <swisstomcat> Ordner bearbeiten
Jun 21 11:52:23 <swisstomcat> edit folder
Jun 21 11:52:44 <haeffb> update?
Jun 21 11:52:50 <swisstomcat> aktualisieren
Jun 21 11:53:01 <swisstomcat> depends on the context
Jun 21 11:53:22 <haeffb> ordner aktualisieren
Jun 21 11:53:31 <swisstomcat> means?
Jun 21 11:53:33 <haeffb> kontext aktualisieren
Jun 21 11:53:40 <haeffb> update folder update context
Jun 21 11:53:49 <haeffb> on a button
Jun 21 11:54:00 <haeffb> after you have made changes to folder properties
Jun 21 11:54:01 <swisstomcat> that should work
Jun 21 11:54:26 <haeffb> except it will come out "aktualisieren ordner"
Jun 21 11:54:37 <swisstomcat> grmbl .. 1 star review ... "Frequent updates with little change in app. Takes way too long to download updates even on wifi. Not worth keeping anymore."
Jun 21 11:54:39 <haeffb> "drag to sort"
Jun 21 11:54:54 <swisstomcat> why not just aktualisieren/update?
Jun 21 11:56:10 <HotDP> LOL love reviews
Jun 21 11:56:25 <haeffb> because I already wrote it the other way... :)
Jun 21 11:56:26 <HotDP> its too easy to give 0-1 star
Jun 21 11:57:11 <haeffb> "drag to sort" "reminder" ?
Jun 21 11:57:17 <swisstomcat> reminder=Erinnerung
Jun 21 11:58:09 <swisstomcat> drag to sort ... hmm
Jun 21 11:58:26 <swisstomcat> Strömungswiderstandskoeffizient ;)
Jun 21 11:59:56 <swisstomcat> zum sortieren ziehen ...
Jun 21 12:00:02 <swisstomcat> sounds strange
Jun 21 12:00:23 <haeffb> "drag to change sort order" ?
Jun 21 12:00:49 <haeffb> "tags"
Jun 21 12:02:18 <swisstomcat> ziehen um die sortierreihenfolge zu ändern
Jun 21 12:02:33 <swisstomcat> hmm
Jun 21 12:02:57 <HotDP> close
Jun 21 12:04:08 <swisstomcat> tags? good question
Jun 21 12:05:53 <haeffb> just tags...
Jun 21 12:06:03 <haeffb> I mean translate tags = tags
Jun 21 12:06:23 <swisstomcat> haeffb: did you see this http://www.toodledo.com/translate/index.php?
Jun 21 12:07:41 <haeffb> son of a booty call!
Jun 21 12:07:42 <swisstomcat> to be more consistent
Jun 21 12:08:03 <swisstomcat> tags is not translated
Jun 21 12:09:15 <haeffb> not really helpful....there are multiple translations of everything and buttons to vote, but I can't see voting results...
Jun 21 12:09:54 <swisstomcat> maybe i can help to select a good translation
Jun 21 12:10:42 <swisstomcat> they didn't translate Tags
Jun 21 12:14:41 <swisstomcat> templarian: i just donated for your komodo webos plugin :)
Jun 21 12:15:01 <haeffb> Piep Piep
Jun 21 12:15:25 <swisstomcat> tweet tweet
Jun 21 12:15:26 <Templarian> swisstomcat: :)
Jun 21 12:15:31 <haeffb> "Add Folder"
Jun 21 12:15:50 <haeffb> Ordner hinzufügen
Jun 21 12:15:53 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 21 12:16:58 <Templarian> You are like the 7th person. (:
Jun 21 12:17:22 <swisstomcat> you only have 7 users? ;)
Jun 21 12:28:06 <Templarian> swisstomcat: no way more than that. 7 donations.
Jun 21 12:28:46 <Templarian> The addon gets about 10 downloads a week.
Jun 21 12:28:53 <swisstomcat> i know :)
Jun 21 12:28:57 <haeffb>  ziehen um die sortierreihenfolge zu ändern  - doesn't fit in the space available...
Jun 21 12:29:04 <swisstomcat> my app got one donation :)
Jun 21 12:29:10 <swisstomcat> haeffb: i was afraid of that
Jun 21 12:29:35 <swisstomcat> z. u. d. s. z. ä. :)
Jun 21 12:29:49 <haeffb> folders (drag me!)
Jun 21 12:30:16 <swisstomcat> Ordner (zieh mich aus) ;)
Jun 21 12:30:21 <swisstomcat> Folders (undress me)
Jun 21 12:30:31 <Templarian> There has to be a shorter way to say that in german.
Jun 21 12:30:35 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 21 12:30:52 <Templarian> Drag to sort?
Jun 21 12:31:11 <swisstomcat> Ziehen zum Sortieren
Jun 21 12:31:32 <swisstomcat> Ziehen um zu Sortieren
Jun 21 12:31:32 <haeffb> close enough
Jun 21 12:32:06 <Templarian> Dragee ton of sort?
Jun 21 12:32:24 <Templarian> That probably doesn't translate. meh.
Jun 21 12:32:43 <swisstomcat> translation error
Jun 21 12:32:56 <swisstomcat> Ordner (zieh mich!)
Jun 21 12:33:03 <Templarian> Nazi!
Jun 21 12:33:13 * Templarian hides.
Jun 21 12:33:14 <haeffb> at $3.23 they needn't expect perfect translations...
Jun 21 12:33:29 * swisstomcat retracts the donation
Jun 21 12:33:49 <Templarian> Wait do one of you speak german?
Jun 21 12:33:53 * haeffb is beginning to think that internationalization isn't worth the effort...
Jun 21 12:34:00 <haeffb> "swiss" tomcat
Jun 21 12:34:10 <swisstomcat> how many sales in europe, haeffb?
Jun 21 12:34:45 <haeffb> Germany 34 in may
Jun 21 12:34:50 <haeffb> 177 in US
Jun 21 12:34:53 <swisstomcat> not bad
Jun 21 12:34:59 <haeffb> so, that's not bad, actually
Jun 21 12:35:06 <swisstomcat> i'm sure german users will appreciate the translation .. i'd do
Jun 21 12:35:18 <haeffb> 1 spain, 1 belgium, 10 UK
Jun 21 12:35:28 <haeffb> 1 netherlands
Jun 21 12:35:33 <haeffb> 3 Canada
Jun 21 12:35:44 <swisstomcat> netherlands? belgium? how did that happen?
Jun 21 12:36:22 <haeffb> all I know is what they tell me...
Jun 21 12:36:39 <swisstomcat> those are not "official" countries
Jun 21 12:36:53 <swisstomcat> interesting
Jun 21 12:37:17 <haeffb> yep
Jun 21 12:37:20 <haeffb> "Daily"
Jun 21 12:37:27 <haeffb> and "Alert Sound"
Jun 21 12:37:31 <haeffb> and I'm done...
Jun 21 12:37:40 <swisstomcat> Täglich
Jun 21 12:37:53 <swisstomcat> alert=alarm?
Jun 21 12:37:57 <haeffb> yep
Jun 21 12:38:09 <swisstomcat> Alarmton
Jun 21 12:38:28 <swisstomcat> i'll check the finished app if you send it to me
Jun 21 12:39:20 <haeffb> the real problem with translations: many of the strings are longer & the CSS formatting no longer works...
Jun 21 12:39:35 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 21 12:39:44 <swisstomcat> a general problem
Jun 21 12:39:54 <swisstomcat> use abbreviations
Jun 21 12:58:32 <rwhitby> does this line of Javascript make any sense?
Jun 21 12:58:38 <rwhitby>  this.saveComplete = this.saveComplete.bindAsEventListener(this);
Jun 21 12:59:22 <swisstomcat> sure
Jun 21 12:59:32 <swisstomcat> hold on
Jun 21 12:59:33 <swisstomcat> no
Jun 21 12:59:53 <rwhitby> on of the saveComplete's has to be called something else, right?
Jun 21 12:59:55 <swisstomcat> i'd say this.saveCompleteHandler=this.saveComplete.bindAsEventListener(this);
Jun 21 13:00:01 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 21 13:00:01 <rwhitby> yeah.
Jun 21 13:01:31 <rwhitby> I wonder why oil has that line in Govnah then
Jun 21 13:02:18 <haeffb> it works that way, too...
Jun 21 13:02:26 <swisstomcat> does it?
Jun 21 13:02:38 <haeffb> yep. I don't personally like it, but it works
Jun 21 13:02:49 <rwhitby> how do you know which is which?
Jun 21 13:03:07 <haeffb> good question....
Jun 21 13:03:20 <haeffb> you can no longer call the unbound version, I'm guessing.
Jun 21 13:03:58 <haeffb> minutes = minute ?
Jun 21 13:04:21 <swisstomcat> minuten
Jun 21 13:04:31 <swisstomcat> 1 minute, 10 minuten
Jun 21 13:26:12 <haeffb> swisstomcat: email
Jun 21 13:26:19 <swisstomcat> k
Jun 21 13:27:03 <swisstomcat> nothing so far
Jun 21 13:42:08 <HattCzech_work> morning all
Jun 21 13:43:01 <swisstomcat> morning
Jun 21 13:43:22 <BigBiff> hi swisstomcat
Jun 21 13:44:22 <HattCzech_work> swisstomcat: what would be a good translation for "Quick Text"?
Jun 21 13:47:51 <PuffTheMagic> can someone explain to me how I update a progress bar widget that is in a list item, I cant seem to figure out how to access widgets in a list item
Jun 21 13:49:08 <BigBiff_pre> widget in list is tricky.. I've never done progress bar in list
Jun 21 13:49:35 <haeffb> the widget uses the list's model.
Jun 21 13:49:42 <BigBiff_pre> the list model is the widget model
Jun 21 13:49:52 <BigBiff_pre> wow
Jun 21 13:50:02 <BigBiff_pre> hehe
Jun 21 13:50:33 <haeffb> BigBiff_pre has come a long way.... :)
Jun 21 13:50:59 <PuffTheMagic> so given that
Jun 21 13:51:10 <BigBiff_pre> hehe, cept in typing speed :p
Jun 21 13:51:12 <haeffb> your list has a "value" property?
Jun 21 13:51:13 <PuffTheMagic> how are they added?
Jun 21 13:51:34 <haeffb> or your progress bar has a modelProperty attribute that sets it to some other property of the list model?
Jun 21 13:52:13 <haeffb> this.controller.setupWidget('myProgressBar', {modelProperty: 'progress'});
Jun 21 13:53:30 <PuffTheMagic> haeffb: i know how to normally setup up a widget, i guess im just confusing my self becase this list is not static
Jun 21 13:53:49 <haeffb> widgets in a list are not "normally"
Jun 21 13:54:03 <haeffb> i.e. I didn't provide it a model above
Jun 21 13:54:23 <BigBiff_pre> set them dynamically.. this.listItems.value =
Jun 21 13:54:51 <BigBiff_pre> lisItems[i].value
Jun 21 13:54:57 <PuffTheMagic> hmmm
Jun 21 13:55:01 <PuffTheMagic> i could try that
Jun 21 13:55:54 <haeffb> your list models items array has a 'progress' property. Change that property, then update the list model
Jun 21 13:56:14 <haeffb> & hopefully it will work (never tried a progress bar in a list...) :)
Jun 21 13:56:26 <PuffTheMagic> woah wait
Jun 21 13:56:31 <BigBiff_pre> ahh yes.. progress
Jun 21 13:56:50 <haeffb> or whatever you set the modelProperty to. value is the default
Jun 21 13:57:12 <haeffb> [08:52] <haeffb> this.controller.setupWidget('myProgressBar', {modelProperty: 'progress'});
Jun 21 13:57:21 <haeffb> sets it to 'progress'
Jun 21 13:57:23 <PuffTheMagic> hey
Jun 21 13:57:24 <PuffTheMagic> haha
Jun 21 13:57:28 <PuffTheMagic> just setting value worked
Jun 21 13:57:34 <haeffb> yes, value is the default
Jun 21 13:57:52 <haeffb> default modelProperty for ALL widgets
Jun 21 13:58:16 <haeffb> you'll have trouble if you have more than one widget in your list row, though, if you don't change modelProperty's
Jun 21 13:58:23 * BigBiff_pre would like to make progress on fixing comp
Jun 21 13:58:41 <PuffTheMagic> haeffb: but the part i am still not getting
Jun 21 13:59:43 <haeffb> (the suspense is killing me!)
Jun 21 13:59:51 <BigBiff_pre> hehe
Jun 21 14:00:19 <PuffTheMagic> sorrry
Jun 21 14:00:31 <PuffTheMagic> i never do a setupWidget on anything in the list
Jun 21 14:00:41 <PuffTheMagic> i just have a functions that sets a new items[]
Jun 21 14:00:46 <PuffTheMagic> when its time to update
Jun 21 14:01:20 <PuffTheMagic> so idont know where is the best place to add setupwidget calls
Jun 21 14:01:37 <haeffb> setupWidget goes in your scenes setup()
Jun 21 14:01:48 <PuffTheMagic> right, normally
Jun 21 14:01:57 <haeffb> also abnormally
Jun 21 14:02:01 <PuffTheMagic> but what if i have no items
Jun 21 14:02:06 <haeffb> not a problem
Jun 21 14:02:07 <PuffTheMagic> in the list when the scene starts
Jun 21 14:02:18 <BigBiff_pre> haeffb: still set it up
Jun 21 14:02:21 <haeffb> items: []
Jun 21 14:02:32 <PuffTheMagic> i have that
Jun 21 14:02:33 <BigBiff_pre> oops, wrong person
Jun 21 14:03:43 <haeffb> or, even: this.taskListModel = {disabled: false}
Jun 21 14:04:41 <haeffb> you need the setupWidget for the list to instantiate the widget & to provide attributes. It goes in setup() even if you don't have list items yet.
Jun 21 14:04:44 <BigBiff_pre> perhaps you are wanting to instantiate thw widget after the list is populated?
Jun 21 14:05:14 <PuffTheMagic> i do setup the list
Jun 21 14:05:20 <PuffTheMagic> i dont setup the progressbars
Jun 21 14:06:06 <haeffb> the only reason you'd need to setupWidget the progress bars (or other widgets in a list) is to change their attributes. Like modelProperty...
Jun 21 14:06:27 <haeffb> ...otherwise, the framework handles it automagically when it does the list.
Jun 21 14:06:29 <PuffTheMagic> exactly, which is what you suggested it do
Jun 21 14:06:40 <PuffTheMagic> i want to change from value to progress or something
Jun 21 14:06:49 <haeffb> If you do setupWidget the widget in the list, do it right after the list's setupWidget
Jun 21 14:07:05 <haeffb> and that sentence has a lot of lists & widgets
Jun 21 14:07:30 <PuffTheMagic> haeffb: yeah thats what i figured I would have to do
Jun 21 14:07:37 <PuffTheMagic> thanks for the help
Jun 21 14:07:39 <PuffTheMagic> again
Jun 21 14:07:46 <haeffb> nolo problemo
Jun 21 14:07:58 * haeffb going for coffee. Anybody need a refill?
Jun 21 14:08:08 <BigBiff_pre> yes plz
Jun 21 14:08:14 <BigBiff_pre> black
Jun 21 14:11:51 <theninjaroach> hey kids.  anyone have a clue what version of Prototype is included in WebOS apps?
Jun 21 14:12:33 <swisstomcat> hmm
Jun 21 14:13:14 <theninjaroach> There's not a whole lot of Prototype info re: WebOS out there...
Jun 21 14:13:28 <theninjaroach> (took me two days just to figure out why domElement.update() was a valid method)
Jun 21 14:13:49 <theninjaroach> now I'm trying to figure out why domElement.clone() doesn't work, and I figure it's a Prototype versioning issue.
Jun 21 14:14:33 <swisstomcat> apparently 1.6.0.x
Jun 21 14:14:48 <swisstomcat> https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=6911&p=29311&hilit=prototype#p29311
Jun 21 14:15:24 <theninjaroach> why thank you
Jun 21 14:17:19 <theninjaroach> ooh, source code is available in the SDK../share/framework/338/javascripts/prototype.js
Jun 21 14:17:45 <swisstomcat> there you go
Jun 21 14:18:43 <theninjaroach> interesting code.. lots of property = !!functionCalls out there..   shortest way to set a bool data type i suppose
Jun 21 14:19:58 <swisstomcat> any testers for my new app? http://www.inorbit.ch/upload/com.inorbit.tutsplus.beta_1.0.0_all.ipk
Jun 21 14:20:02 <swisstomcat> let me know what you think
Jun 21 14:20:20 <BigBiff_pre> wish I could :(
Jun 21 14:20:42 <theninjaroach> what's the easiest way to install a .ipk on a device?  i was hoping preware had an "Install From URL" option but it does not seem to
Jun 21 14:20:57 <swisstomcat> palm-install xy.ipk
Jun 21 14:21:02 <swisstomcat> (if you have the SDK)
Jun 21 14:21:26 <theninjaroach> oh, on the emulator.  sure.  what's tutsplus?
Jun 21 14:21:37 <swisstomcat> a front-end for tutsplus.com
Jun 21 14:21:39 <swisstomcat> tutorial site
Jun 21 14:22:48 <swisstomcat> bbl .. errands to run
Jun 21 14:23:47 <BigBiff_pre> ooh, install from url would be cool
Jun 21 14:24:55 <theninjaroach> Yeah.  I've had my Pre for about a week now, I plan on hacking that feature into Preware and submitting it unless the maintainers have a problem with it for some reason
Jun 21 14:25:26 <BigBiff_pre> go for it
Jun 21 14:26:07 <theninjaroach> so have you guys seen the Palm SDK tutorial where you tap on a button and it has a counter to show how many times you've clicked?
Jun 21 14:26:16 <BigBiff_pre> ya
Jun 21 14:26:28 <theninjaroach> I took the "Moon" image they provide with that sample app and made it into a game...
Jun 21 14:26:45 <theninjaroach> put a leaderboard on it and published it as a web-distributed app as a joke on friday
Jun 21 14:26:59 <theninjaroach> well, i didn't know that places like precentral.net picked and published those RSS feeds...
Jun 21 14:27:13 <BigBiff_pre> hehe
Jun 21 14:27:14 <theninjaroach> 600,000 "clicks" registered over the weekend.
Jun 21 14:27:16 <theninjaroach> people are crazy.
Jun 21 14:27:28 <theninjaroach> really funny names on the leaderboard
Jun 21 14:27:29 <BigBiff_pre> wha?
Jun 21 14:27:58 <theninjaroach> collectively, over 600,000 "clicks" have been registered in the game..  something like 600 games played...
Jun 21 14:28:10 <theninjaroach> why people bother past 10 clicks is beyond me.
Jun 21 14:28:37 <BigBiff_pre> boredom is a powerful state of mind
Jun 21 14:28:49 <theninjaroach> hence, the game's creation ;)
Jun 21 14:29:03 <BigBiff_pre> the circle of life
Jun 21 14:29:05 <theninjaroach> "Click The Moon" lol..  i've laughed at it many times
Jun 21 14:29:41 <theninjaroach> my girlfriend got over 7000 clicks on friday while watching TV just for the amusement.. i don't even think she's in the top 20 anymore...
Jun 21 14:29:53 <BigBiff_pre> pink pajamas penguins on the bottom..
Jun 21 14:30:57 <theninjaroach> some of my favorite names/scores:  "It says BOOB.	8008 clicks"
Jun 21 14:31:09 <theninjaroach> "MY FINGERS!!!!!!!!! RexMu 15224 clicks"
Jun 21 14:32:21 <theninjaroach> holy crap.  i'm looking at that tutsplus website that swisstomcat mentioned, top 10 least used HTML tags...  did you know there is an <optgroup> HTML tag for select menus??
Jun 21 14:32:34 <theninjaroach> they create unselectable "headings" inside your dropdown menus..
Jun 21 14:32:39 <HattCzech_work> anyone know how to check the focus of a textfield?
Jun 21 14:34:31 <theninjaroach> hmm...
Jun 21 14:34:43 <theninjaroach> document.activeElement should return the element with focus..
Jun 21 14:34:53 <theninjaroach> apparently this was impossible to do > 1 year ago
Jun 21 14:36:09 <theninjaroach> maybe something like:  if(formElement === document.activeElement)
Jun 21 14:36:19 <theninjaroach> although I've never tried comparing two nodes together before...
Jun 21 14:37:58 <HattCzech_work> hmmm, i'll give that a shot
Jun 21 14:48:49 <theninjaroach> doesn't work for me in Chrome...
Jun 21 14:49:28 <BigBiff_pre> isn't there a mojo.focus()?
Jun 21 14:50:15 <theninjaroach> i'm checking to see if it works in the Pre browser..
Jun 21 14:51:50 <theninjaroach> property: focus	 Boolean	 Optional	 FALSE	 DEPRECATED If true, field has focus on scene push
Jun 21 14:52:08 <theninjaroach> oh, nvm that does not do what i think it does.
Jun 21 14:52:22 <theninjaroach> the .focus() method will SET the focus, not GET it.
Jun 21 14:52:47 <BigBiff_pre> intersting
Jun 21 14:53:00 <BigBiff_pre> +e
Jun 21 14:54:00 <theninjaroach> any luck with document.activeElement?
Jun 21 14:55:11 <theninjaroach> LOL!  it works in Firefox..  problem is that when I click my "test" link, it removes focus from the field I was trying to test against.
Jun 21 14:56:19 <theninjaroach> works:  <input name="bk" id="bk" onfocus="alert(document.activeElement===document.getElementById('bk'));">  (will cause annoying loops in firefox)
Jun 21 14:56:19 <swisstomcat> rehi
Jun 21 14:56:51 <theninjaroach> hey swiss..  i like the tutsplus website!
Jun 21 14:59:00 <swisstomcat> the website or the app? :)
Jun 21 15:00:59 <swisstomcat> ping haeffb
Jun 21 15:01:22 <haeffb> pong
Jun 21 15:02:04 <swisstomcat> i've got some corrections
Jun 21 15:02:29 <haeffb> woohoo!
Jun 21 15:02:57 <swisstomcat> Gerät siege Konflikt -> Gerät sieht bei Konflikt
Jun 21 15:03:29 <swisstomcat> Ordner Kontextes & Ziels -> Ordner, Kontexte und Ziele
Jun 21 15:03:42 <swisstomcat> Berbeiten O/K/Z -> Bearbeiten
Jun 21 15:05:05 <swisstomcat> Bearbeiten Ordner... -> Ordner bearbeiten...
Jun 21 15:05:06 <haeffb> w/o the O/K/Z ?
Jun 21 15:05:15 <swisstomcat> yeah, i think so
Jun 21 15:05:19 <haeffb> ok
Jun 21 15:05:24 <haeffb> no can do on the last one...
Jun 21 15:05:34 <swisstomcat> why not?
Jun 21 15:05:52 <swisstomcat> Aktualisieren Ordner -> Ordner aktualisieren
Jun 21 15:06:03 <haeffb> sigh... because I'm lazy & using one dialog for each of folders, contexts & goals.
Jun 21 15:06:15 <haeffb> & passing the "type" to the dialog.
Jun 21 15:06:16 <swisstomcat> you lazy bum!
Jun 21 15:06:18 <swisstomcat> ;)
Jun 21 15:06:31 <haeffb> so, the Germans just need to change their language to suit me.
Jun 21 15:06:36 <swisstomcat> haha
Jun 21 15:06:50 <swisstomcat> can't you use interpolate?
Jun 21 15:06:54 <haeffb> maybe.
Jun 21 15:07:17 <haeffb> sounds like more work for me, though. easier to get Germany to change.
Jun 21 15:07:32 <swisstomcat> Piorität -> Priorität
Jun 21 15:07:55 <haeffb> [10:07] <swisstomcat> Piorität -> Priorität
Jun 21 15:08:10 <swisstomcat> (05:07:31 PM) swisstomcat: Piorität -> Priorität
Jun 21 15:08:13 <haeffb> icechat no likey UTF-8
Jun 21 15:08:27 <haeffb> ah. needing an R
Jun 21 15:08:31 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jun 21 15:08:48 <swisstomcat> what's "doppelte aufgabe" on the main screen?
Jun 21 15:09:04 <swisstomcat> sorry, on the add task screen
Jun 21 15:10:56 <haeffb> duplicate task
Jun 21 15:11:20 <swisstomcat> Aufgabe duplizieren
Jun 21 15:12:57 <haeffb> "Deleted tasks from web:": "Gelöschte Aufgaben ",
Jun 21 15:12:57 <haeffb> "Deleted tasks from device:": "Gelöschte Aufgaben ",
Jun 21 15:13:07 <haeffb> one of those appears to be wrong.
Jun 21 15:13:31 <haeffb> or maybe both...
Jun 21 15:13:57 <swisstomcat> incomplete rather
Jun 21 15:14:11 <swisstomcat> what's their meaning?
Jun 21 15:15:39 <haeffb> displays the number of tasks that had been deleted from the device during sync...
Jun 21 15:17:31 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: "And if you have TextFields in your list items, there's a .focused class that gets applied to textfield groups (which are often on the palm-row-wrapper), when the TextField has keyboard focus."
Jun 21 15:17:34 <swisstomcat> Gelöschte Aufgaben Web
Jun 21 15:17:40 <swisstomcat> Gelöschte Aufgaben Gerät
Jun 21 15:18:03 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: so, grab all the elements, check their class for .focused, and that's the one
Jun 21 15:18:57 <swisstomcat> Synchronisiere Order -> Synchronisiere Ordner
Jun 21 15:19:30 <HattCzech_work> hmmm, that sounds like a jQuery thing to do
Jun 21 15:20:05 <sugardave> I bet there's a Prototype method for it
Jun 21 15:20:20 <HattCzech_work> i hope so :) otherwise it'll be a pain
Jun 21 15:20:22 <theninjaroach> $$('.focused.')
Jun 21 15:20:26 <HattCzech_work> especially since it's in a list :)
Jun 21 15:20:37 <theninjaroach> $$(selector) = same "Sizzle" selector engine as JQuery
Jun 21 15:20:38 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: wait
Jun 21 15:20:55 <sugardave> I'm not sure any list element SHOULD have focus until it is tappeed
Jun 21 15:20:57 <sugardave> tappe
Jun 21 15:20:59 <sugardave> dammit
Jun 21 15:21:00 <sugardave> tapped
Jun 21 15:21:16 <theninjaroach> if focused is a unique class, $$('.focused') will give you back an array with 1 element
Jun 21 15:22:08 <theninjaroach> but document.activeElement should always return the actively focused DOM element (form or otherwise)
Jun 21 15:23:10 <HattCzech_work> let me see if those work...
Jun 21 15:23:46 <theninjaroach> and i checked.. formElement === document.activeElement will evaluate to true if the formElement is focused
Jun 21 15:24:42 <haeffb> Hah! I CAN use .interpolate... lucky Germans.
Jun 21 15:25:26 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: this.controller.get(document).gelElementsByClassName('focused');
Jun 21 15:25:37 <sugardave> er, getElementsByClassName
Jun 21 15:25:48 <sugardave> note that is deprecated, but still is our Prototype
Jun 21 15:26:03 <theninjaroach> is all Prototype deprecated?
Jun 21 15:26:06 <sugardave> nope
Jun 21 15:26:24 <HattCzech_work> hmmm
Jun 21 15:26:36 <theninjaroach> why are they deprecating getElementsByClassName?  why not use the Prototype / Sizzle Selector $$('.focused') ?
Jun 21 15:27:13 <sugardave> $$ might not translate to code well, depending on where you are accessing it
Jun 21 15:27:24 <BigBiff_pre> or
Jun 21 15:27:30 <sugardave> some Mojo "magic" I remember hearing
Jun 21 15:27:49 <BigBiff_pre> className.include('selecte')
Jun 21 15:27:54 <BigBiff_pre> d
Jun 21 15:27:59 <theninjaroach> i was able to use $$ successfully in my first app..
Jun 21 15:28:16 <theninjaroach> because i haven't learned the whole template thing yet
Jun 21 15:28:17 <haeffb> swisstomcat: "future tasks" in 15 chars or less. Go.
Jun 21 15:28:58 <haeffb> er. 13 chars.
Jun 21 15:29:38 <BigBiff_pre> selected = focused :)
Jun 21 15:30:05 <haeffb> Gerät sieht bei Konflikt still too long.
Jun 21 15:30:13 <BigBiff_pre> so used to using that state.
Jun 21 15:30:17 <BigBiff_pre> ment
Jun 21 15:30:29 <BigBiff_pre> type much biff?
Jun 21 15:30:34 <sugardave> theninjaroach: plus, I shun shortcuts
Jun 21 15:31:08 <theninjaroach> why?  they are smaller and therefore faster..
Jun 21 15:31:16 <theninjaroach> if they are going to force a library on us, we might as well use it
Jun 21 15:31:54 <sugardave> because moving code like: this.controller.get(someDiv); won't work too good if you decided to move it from a scene controller to a stage controller, for example
Jun 21 15:32:26 <sugardave> however, Mojo.Controller.appController.getActiveStageController().activeScene().get(someDiv); works everywhere
Jun 21 15:32:27 <theninjaroach> $$ is not a shortcut to this.controller.get ...
Jun 21 15:32:38 <sugardave> I'm speaking in terms of generality
Jun 21 15:32:39 <theninjaroach> lunch time.  adios
Jun 21 15:33:00 <theninjaroach> going to hack an "Install From URL" option into preware this afternoon if I can...
Jun 21 15:33:10 <theninjaroach> make it easier for us all to get our test packages to phone!
Jun 21 15:34:11 <haeffb> does filecoaster still have install from URL?
Jun 21 15:34:36 <sugardave> I thought $ was a shortcut for document.getElementById
Jun 21 15:34:49 <sugardave> which is what this.controller.get(someId) does?
Jun 21 15:34:56 <haeffb> $ vs $$
Jun 21 15:34:57 <BigBiff_pre> yes
Jun 21 15:35:08 <sugardave> ah, yeah, I see it now
Jun 21 15:35:15 <BigBiff_pre> hehe
Jun 21 15:35:57 <haeffb> http://www.prototypejs.org/api/utility
Jun 21 15:36:47 <BigBiff_pre> the prototype site is not friendly to beginners like me
Jun 21 15:36:56 <haeffb> true dat
Jun 21 15:36:59 <sugardave> no, no it isn't
Jun 21 15:37:36 <BigBiff_pre> it assumes you are already versed in programming
Jun 21 15:38:39 <haeffb> in javascript/html/css web programming
Jun 21 15:39:35 <haeffb> sugardave: looks like $$ replaces document.getElementsByClassName
Jun 21 15:39:41 <BigBiff_pre> or ruby
Jun 21 15:39:59 <haeffb> Try.these(functions)
Jun 21 15:40:02 <haeffb> awesome.
Jun 21 15:40:26 <haeffb> Accepts an arbitrary number of functions and returns the result of the first one that doesn't throw an error.
Jun 21 15:40:34 <sugardave> I know I'm not crazy...I saw warnings about using $$ in certain places
Jun 21 15:41:00 <haeffb> its warnings about $, which breaks in multi-stage apps, I think.
Jun 21 15:41:06 <sugardave> OH
Jun 21 15:41:15 <haeffb> not sure about $$
Jun 21 15:41:21 <sugardave> that makes more sense
Jun 21 15:42:26 <BigBiff_pre> this site is more my speed:
Jun 21 15:42:37 <BigBiff_pre> http://alternateidea.com/blog/articles/2005/12/07/prototype-meets-ruby-a-look-at-enumerable-array-and-hash
Jun 21 15:43:32 <BigBiff_pre> wish there were more like this for people like me
Jun 21 15:47:42 <sugardave> is this going to explain to me what the difference between a hash and associative array is?
Jun 21 15:48:01 <BigBiff_pre> no it isn't :p
Jun 21 15:48:05 <sugardave> heh
Jun 21 15:48:10 <BigBiff_pre> no site does that
Jun 21 15:48:49 <sugardave> it almost sounds like they are 2 names for the same logical concept...I guess certain languages support a hash type as well as an array type
Jun 21 15:48:59 <haeffb> Ok. I download an array of tasks.
Jun 21 15:49:22 <haeffb> each task has a tags property, which can have multiple tags, comma separated.
Jun 21 15:49:35 <haeffb> I want to keep a list of unique tags
Jun 21 15:50:24 <haeffb> so, as I iterate thru the list of tasks, I grab each tag & do this:  tags[tag] = tag;
Jun 21 15:50:55 <sugardave> I'm with you so far
Jun 21 15:50:56 <haeffb> rather than loop thru tags & check if tags[i] = tag
Jun 21 15:51:57 <haeffb> simpler code...does it actually process faster?
Jun 21 15:52:05 <sugardave> just store true instead of the text value: if (tags[text])
Jun 21 15:53:08 <sugardave> haeffb: in theory it should be faster, but in practice you might need a boatload of unique tags to see a difference
Jun 21 15:53:10 <swisstomcat> bbl
Jun 21 15:53:21 <haeffb> tagsList = tags.collect();
Jun 21 15:53:35 <haeffb> gives me an indexed array of tags... ?
Jun 21 15:53:51 <sugardave> I don't know....never seen/used collect
Jun 21 15:53:56 <BigBiff_pre> I guess
Jun 21 15:54:04 <haeffb> looking at BigBiff_pre's page
Jun 21 15:54:37 <BigBiff_pre> looks handy though it is still an iteration
Jun 21 15:54:58 <BigBiff_pre> so who knows if it's faster
Jun 21 15:55:10 <haeffb> yep
Jun 21 15:56:42 <BigBiff_pre> I like it because it is readable
Jun 21 15:57:11 <BigBiff_pre> I understand findAll
Jun 21 15:57:49 <BigBiff_pre> or includes()
Jun 21 16:02:47 <haeffb> how do I trim whitespace from begin&end of string?
Jun 21 16:03:49 <sugardave> string.replace(/^\s/, '').replace(/\s$/, '');
Jun 21 16:03:54 <HattCzech_work> i use string.replace(/^\s+/, '').replace(/\s+$/, '');
Jun 21 16:03:54 <sugardave> I think that works
Jun 21 16:04:04 <sugardave> oh yeah
Jun 21 16:04:05 <sugardave> pluses
Jun 21 16:04:36 <haeffb> pluses for multiple?
Jun 21 16:04:47 <sugardave> yeah, \s will just match one space
Jun 21 16:04:55 <sugardave> \s+ 1 or more
Jun 21 16:05:00 <LoneStar99> hwllo all
Jun 21 16:05:25 <sugardave> hello
Jun 21 16:09:28 <haeffb> not working: thisTags[i].replace(/^\s+/, '').replace(/\s+$/, '');
Jun 21 16:10:25 <sugardave> hmmmm, these are not multi-line tags, are they?
Jun 21 16:10:28 <HattCzech_work> is that an array of strings?
Jun 21 16:11:11 <HattCzech_work> and are you just trying to remove spaces? or tabs also?
Jun 21 16:11:22 <haeffb> http://www.pastie.org/1013779
Jun 21 16:11:30 <haeffb> should just be spaces.
Jun 21 16:11:37 <HattCzech_work> although tabs wouldn't work in HTML unless you use the special character
Jun 21 16:11:52 <sugardave> you broke pastie
Jun 21 16:11:52 <egaudet_work> string.strip()
Jun 21 16:12:09 <egaudet_work> strip leading and trailing whitespace
Jun 21 16:12:20 <HattCzech_work> yeah, pastie not working for me, either
Jun 21 16:12:24 <haeffb> ah. is that prototype?
Jun 21 16:12:27 <egaudet_work> yeah
Jun 21 16:12:33 <sugardave> egaudet_work: damn, where were you in my early days
Jun 21 16:12:55 <egaudet_work> learning JS :P lol
Jun 21 16:12:59 <sugardave> hahaha
Jun 21 16:13:48 <haeffb> duh. The other way would have worked too...
Jun 21 16:14:03 <haeffb> NOT:  thisTags[i].strip();
Jun 21 16:14:15 <haeffb> YES: thisTags[i] = thisTags[i].strip();
Jun 21 16:14:21 <sugardave> hehe
Jun 21 16:14:23 <sugardave> oops
Jun 21 16:15:48 <sugardave> the Cuckster
Jun 21 16:15:53 <sugardave> Chuckster
Jun 21 16:19:13 <haeffb> [20100621-11:17:18.086457] info: thisTags ["Have", "a", "tag", "or two"]
Jun 21 16:20:51 <sugardave> holy crap, I need to read more Prototype docs...include is awesome
Jun 21 16:29:34 <haeffb> if (!tags.include(thisTags[i])) {tags.push(thisTags[i])};
Jun 21 16:29:53 <haeffb> it is indeed awesome
Jun 21 16:30:19 <haeffb> now, if I could get the split & strip to work at the same time...
Jun 21 16:30:56 <haeffb> http://www.pastie.org/1013804
Jun 21 16:31:50 <sugardave> string.split(',').strip() doesn't work?
Jun 21 16:31:57 <sugardave> oh
Jun 21 16:32:05 <sugardave> I guess not
Jun 21 16:32:55 <haeffb> nope.
Jun 21 16:33:42 <sugardave> you could do thisTags.invoke('split') and eliminate that for loop
Jun 21 16:33:52 <sugardave> er 'strip'
Jun 21 16:33:59 <haeffb> also, be VERY carefult not to reuse the same iterator variable "i" in nested loops like I just did.
Jun 21 16:34:05 <sugardave> heh
Jun 21 16:35:07 <haeffb> other than that, it works
Jun 21 16:36:10 <haeffb> every time I see chuqui (...) Quit, I think of a question I need to ask. When I see chuqui (...) has joined #webos, nothing comes to mind.
Jun 21 16:36:59 <sugardave> I'll get the glass of warm water, you get the shaving cream and permanent markers
Jun 21 16:37:10 <haeffb> woohoo!
Jun 21 16:53:21 <JenP> hi all
Jun 21 17:06:49 <sugardave> hi JenP
Jun 21 17:07:18 <JenP> goodmorning!
Jun 21 17:23:23 <theninjaroach> hey sugardave - are you confused on the difference of a hash vs array, or were you kidding?
Jun 21 17:26:23 <theninjaroach> ..cause i could help if you don't know the difference
Jun 21 17:31:20 * Tibfib wants to know the difference
Jun 21 17:34:28 <halfhalo_pre> arrats use numbers as an index while hashes use objects
Jun 21 17:34:31 <theninjaroach> ok.  In Javascript, you have arrays and hashes / objects / maps (a hash / object / map is the concept thing by different names)
Jun 21 17:34:39 <halfhalo_pre> arrays*
Jun 21 17:35:15 <theninjaroach> arrays and hashes both contain a collection of objects (numbers, strings, functions, any kind of javascrip tobject)
Jun 21 17:36:28 <theninjaroach> arrays are indexed and accessed numerically...  starting with 0 and going as high as necessary
Jun 21 17:37:40 <theninjaroach> hashes / objects / maps are different because the "key" or index can be whatever you want, generally a string, so they can be more useful for storing and retrieving an item out of a collection of data
Jun 21 17:38:37 <theninjaroach> myArray = ["brandon","davis"]  // contains two strings, accessible by myArray[0] and myArray[1]
Jun 21 17:39:21 <theninjaroach> myHash = { firstName: 'brandon', lastName: 'davis'};  // A hash equivalent to the above array, but now the data is accessible by myHash['firstName'] and myHash['lastName']
Jun 21 17:40:30 <theninjaroach> if you're going to use a hash, you have to specify your "key" or "index" to each object you store.. so it's useful for passing around data.  You use them all the time when you access the Mojo framework.
Jun 21 17:41:29 <theninjaroach> arrays are better for variable-lengthed "lists".. you can always add to the end of the array (using myArrash.push("value")  ) and javascript will automatically put +1 to the index of myArray and store the value.
Jun 21 17:42:10 <theninjaroach> in general, arrays are quicker for processing and use less memory.  hashes are better for structure and readability.
Jun 21 17:43:05 <theninjaroach> hopefully that makes some kind of sense..  maybe i just repeated other stuff you've already read though ;)
Jun 21 17:43:43 <Tibfib> Ahh, that makes sense. I've used both, but I'm glad to know the difference...
Jun 21 17:44:09 <Tibfib> thanks
Jun 21 17:44:20 <theninjaroach> the most basic difference is:  array uses numbers and objects/maps/hashes use strings.  but behind the scenes, javascript is doing a lot of work to make hashes work so conveniently.
Jun 21 17:44:45 <theninjaroach> if you want to "organize" your data, use a hash.  if you just want to keep a list of stuff (and their order) then use arrays.
Jun 21 17:45:37 <theninjaroach> if you want to "search" an array, use myArray.indexOf('ValueImSearchinFor') -- It will return a number >= 0 if the value exists anywhere in the array.  It will return -1 if it does not exist anywhere in the array.
Jun 21 17:55:25 <lyht> So the doc page about spinners says there is a spinner stuck on the scene automatically. How do I access it?
Jun 21 17:56:28 <theninjaroach> um, i just ran across this code concerning spinners:
Jun 21 17:56:31 <theninjaroach> 	this.spinnerModel = {spinning: false};
Jun 21 17:56:32 <theninjaroach> 	this.controller.setupWidget('spinner', {spinnerSize: 'large'}, this.spinnerModel);
Jun 21 17:57:07 <theninjaroach> then later, they control the spinning like this:
Jun 21 17:57:09 <theninjaroach> 	this.spinnerModel.spinning = true;
Jun 21 17:57:10 <theninjaroach> 	this.controller.modelChanged(this.spinnerModel);
Jun 21 18:00:16 <theninjaroach> meetings, yay.  see ya
Jun 21 18:29:08 <egaudet_work> hash tables are used to implement associative arrays
Jun 21 18:30:20 <BigBiff> hehe, I love this discussion
Jun 21 18:31:30 <BigBiff> egaudet_work: I still don't really get it
Jun 21 18:32:54 <BigBiff> but, I don't get many things, so..
Jun 21 18:33:44 <sugardave> BigBiff: I think it's sufficient to say that hashes in javascript are objects
Jun 21 18:34:08 <sugardave> because you can always access an object with array notation by passing the 'key' as the index
Jun 21 18:36:17 <egaudet_work> put it this way, a hash table is an implementation of an associative array.  An associative array is a "mapping" of key->value pairs.   Associative arrays can also be implemented using binary search trees
Jun 21 18:38:38 <sugardave> well, that clears it up :P
Jun 21 18:39:45 <sugardave> BigBiff: are you just wanting something like var myHash; myHash.insert(key1, prop1, key2, prop2);
Jun 21 18:41:57 <BigBiff> I usually just add a  key, value (the word escapes me) like
Jun 21 18:42:23 <BigBiff> array.newprop= poop
Jun 21 18:42:51 <egaudet_work> now what is the context anyway of this "question"?
Jun 21 18:43:16 <BigBiff> just curiosity
Jun 21 18:43:23 <sugardave> right, that works, except array in that case isn't really an array, it's an object
Jun 21 18:43:56 <egaudet_work> arrays are objects in JS right?
Jun 21 18:44:08 <egaudet_work> Objects in JS are associative arrays
Jun 21 18:44:09 <sugardave> well, yeah, but it's 'specialized'
Jun 21 18:44:09 <BigBiff> yes
Jun 21 18:44:43 * sugardave tries to remember key points and fails.
Jun 21 18:44:58 <BigBiff> I just find myself interchanging the declaration
Jun 21 18:45:11 <BigBiff> arr=[
Jun 21 18:45:18 <sugardave> i.e. you can't array.push() into that object and have key indexes
Jun 21 18:45:24 <BigBiff> and arr={
Jun 21 18:46:32 <BigBiff> ok, now we getting somewhere
Jun 21 18:47:10 <egaudet_work> I still dont' really know what the current topic is, I just leaped in without context lol
Jun 21 18:47:18 <BigBiff> specialized array commands won't work with {}
Jun 21 18:47:25 <sugardave> that's correct
Jun 21 18:47:35 <egaudet_work> because it's not an Array class
Jun 21 18:48:33 <sugardave> egaudet_work: BigBiff hit the chat the other night all freaking out over the difference between an associative array, a hash, and an object
Jun 21 18:48:38 <sugardave> he needs more gum
Jun 21 18:48:41 <egaudet_work> it wouldn't make sense to push() with non-arrays
Jun 21 18:49:37 <BigBiff> so my irrational conclusion to all this is...
Jun 21 18:50:26 <BigBiff> {} is limiting
Jun 21 18:50:36 <BigBiff> and I'm sticking to it
Jun 21 18:50:40 <egaudet_work> limiting?
Jun 21 18:50:43 <BigBiff> :-p
Jun 21 18:50:58 <BigBiff> hehe
Jun 21 18:51:05 <egaudet_work> an array is more or less a limited subset of an associative array (which is what {} is)
Jun 21 18:53:11 * BigBiff finds this topic sadisticly entertaining
Jun 21 18:53:24 <BigBiff> cally? cly?
Jun 21 18:54:52 <sugardave> sadistically
Jun 21 18:55:11 <BigBiff> sugardave: found some more gum in the car
Jun 21 18:55:25 <BigBiff> the world may now spin again
Jun 21 18:55:30 <sugardave> nice, I cheated yesterday and have 2 left, back to the gum in an hour or so
Jun 21 18:55:42 <sugardave> life is better with nicotine gum
Jun 21 18:56:06 <BigBiff> wise words, sir.. wise words
Jun 21 18:57:18 <BigBiff> one more question and I'll leave you guys alone for like .. an hour
Jun 21 18:57:26 <BigBiff> :)
Jun 21 18:57:31 <sugardave> heh
Jun 21 18:57:51 <BigBiff> http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7724
Jun 21 18:58:12 <sugardave> I just responded to that again
Jun 21 18:58:21 <sugardave> not sure what is going on with him yet
Jun 21 18:58:43 <BigBiff> this.controller.get("variablenot in dom?")
Jun 21 18:58:57 <BigBiff> can you do that?
Jun 21 18:59:10 <sugardave> oh shit, that might be his issue
Jun 21 18:59:26 <sugardave> didn't think to ask about an 'mpeg' id'd element
Jun 21 19:00:08 <BigBiff> it's avariable in the json, I was trying to figure out if that would work...
Jun 21 19:00:17 <sugardave> no that won't work
Jun 21 19:00:28 <sugardave> it has to be an ID in the DOM
Jun 21 19:00:38 <egaudet_work> this.controller.get is going to end up using getElementById()
Jun 21 19:00:44 <BigBiff> I thought so
Jun 21 19:02:02 <BigBiff> ok - you guys are off the hook for a bit.. chores await
Jun 21 19:06:03 <sugardave> today I get to figure out how hard displaying download progress and canceling downloads are going to be
Jun 21 19:10:19 <thomaschaaf> Hey :) I am about to go on a flight and would like to make an app :) Any ideas? I was thinking about making a better clock app with the same functionality as iOSs Clock app
Jun 21 19:12:00 <pandora--> hmmmm
Jun 21 19:12:08 <thomaschaaf> since I will be on a flight I can'T make anything which utalizes inet
Jun 21 19:12:31 <thomaschaaf> choose anything :)
Jun 21 19:12:36 <thomaschaaf> I will make it pretty and free
Jun 21 19:12:46 <pandora--> calendar
Jun 21 19:12:48 <thomaschaaf> no pdk though :(
Jun 21 19:12:55 <thomaschaaf> calendar is huge :(
Jun 21 19:13:02 <sugardave> how long is the flight?
Jun 21 19:13:02 <pandora--> a faster calendar with better scheduling options
Jun 21 19:13:15 <thomaschaaf> well total traveltime is 28 hours
Jun 21 19:13:21 <pandora--> daaaaaamn
Jun 21 19:13:29 <sugardave> going to Australia?
Jun 21 19:13:40 <pandora--> yeah from where to where?
Jun 21 19:13:44 <thomaschaaf> lol germany <-> SFO, CA, USA
Jun 21 19:13:52 <BigBiff> star map
Jun 21 19:14:01 <thomaschaaf> but with great layover provided by us air
Jun 21 19:14:01 <pandora--> ah
Jun 21 19:14:38 <sugardave> yeah, star map would be cool
Jun 21 19:14:45 <pandora--> ah i know
Jun 21 19:14:49 <pandora--> a calculator!
Jun 21 19:14:52 <sugardave> too bad we have no compass
Jun 21 19:14:57 <pandora--> the builtin native calc SUCKS
Jun 21 19:15:00 <pandora--> it's really slow
Jun 21 19:15:02 <BigBiff> ya
Jun 21 19:15:03 <HattCzech_work> ooohhh! a TIP calculator!
Jun 21 19:15:04 <HattCzech_work> ;)
Jun 21 19:15:07 <thomaschaaf> lol
Jun 21 19:15:12 <BigBiff> hehe
Jun 21 19:15:15 <thomaschaaf> I hate tip calcuators :D
Jun 21 19:15:17 <pandora--> ive missed a lot of calculations because the buttons are so unresponsive
Jun 21 19:15:20 <HattCzech_work> as do i
Jun 21 19:15:36 <pandora--> ya not a tip calc, just a regular calc that is faster and more responsive than the builtin calc
Jun 21 19:15:39 <thomaschaaf> there are plenty of calcs :(
Jun 21 19:16:10 <HattCzech_work> thomaschaaf: do you know german?
Jun 21 19:16:18 <thomaschaaf> HattCzech_work: of course
Jun 21 19:16:22 <thomaschaaf> why?
Jun 21 19:16:40 <HattCzech_work> have a min to translate this? :) http://webos.pastebin.com/HyMJeCeh
Jun 21 19:18:10 <sugardave> jeez, I can't find it now, of course, but we started a git project for Twipper...a tip calculator that tweets how much you just tipped
Jun 21 19:18:14 <sugardave> it's stagnated, however
Jun 21 19:18:57 <thomaschaaf> http://webos.pastebin.com/9WMMr3t5
Jun 21 19:19:21 <thomaschaaf> I would like a compass so bad...
Jun 21 19:19:29 <thomaschaaf> so many awesome things I'd write
Jun 21 19:19:46 <HattCzech_work> awesome, thanks thomaschaaf
Jun 21 19:21:25 <thomaschaaf> lol I think I have to go "I am going to the toilet when I am back will you be off the computer"... girls.. send me what you want to have to schaaf@komola.de I'll pretty much write anything if I like the idea :) in worst case a calculator and
Jun 21 19:23:18 <HattCzech_work> okay... i need some help with palm-row css styles and selecting them
Jun 21 19:23:42 <HattCzech_work> i can get the row the right size before clicked... but when i click it, it expands to the default size
Jun 21 19:23:54 <HattCzech_work> palm-row.selected didn't work... what else could it be?
Jun 21 19:23:58 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: I don't see that thing you described, I overrode the height of my rows, and they keep that height even when selected
Jun 21 19:24:14 <HattCzech_work> hmmm
Jun 21 19:24:21 <sugardave> but, my list is quite simple
Jun 21 19:24:27 <sugardave> no adding, re-ordering, deleting
Jun 21 19:24:31 <HattCzech_work> this is for a popup submenu, maybe that makes things trickier?
Jun 21 19:24:32 <sugardave> just information
Jun 21 19:24:41 <sugardave> oh, perhaps
Jun 21 19:26:18 <dawm> i bought Blurfor the 360, got it for $11.79 after tax from Best Buy ;D
Jun 21 19:26:26 <dawm> coupons FTW
Jun 21 19:29:08 <HattCzech_work> i wish i could see the selected style in inspector to fix it :/
Jun 21 19:29:22 * oil is about to buy steel battalion for the original xbox :)
Jun 21 19:29:35 <pandora--> dawm: niiice
Jun 21 19:29:41 <pandora--> dawm: i played the hell out of the demo
Jun 21 19:29:52 <pandora--> dawm: been thinking of picking it up.  where'd you get the coupon for it
Jun 21 19:29:53 <pandora--> ?
Jun 21 19:29:57 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: try host emulator mode?
Jun 21 19:30:11 <oil> HattCzech: good luck trying to make the rows shorter :)
Jun 21 19:30:16 * oil has battled it before and lost
Jun 21 19:30:18 <HattCzech_work> ohhh i've tried that and it is extremely slow and works about 10% of the time
Jun 21 19:30:32 <dawm> $10 rewardzone coupon, $20 MFG coupon, and its on sale for $20 off at bestbuy, $59.99-20-10-20 = $9.99+tax
Jun 21 19:30:36 <sugardave> it's my only option, no inspector for me
Jun 21 19:30:41 <dawm> heres all the details
Jun 21 19:30:41 <dawm> http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264694
Jun 21 19:30:51 <HattCzech_work> ahhh
Jun 21 19:31:08 <sugardave> but, why won't inspector show it?
Jun 21 19:31:39 <HattCzech_work> i select it, but it doesn't appear selected in inspector
Jun 21 19:32:04 <sugardave> so, you may have to do it the hard way
Jun 21 19:32:24 <sugardave> get all the elements and start parsing through their class names and log them
Jun 21 19:32:31 <sugardave> fun times!
Jun 21 19:32:41 <HattCzech_work> i think it's margin-bottom or padding-bottom
Jun 21 19:33:02 <egaudet_work> Go to the source
Jun 21 19:33:24 <sugardave> I can't use that damned spreadsheet, it means nothing to me
Jun 21 19:33:25 <sugardave> at all
Jun 21 19:33:58 <HattCzech_work> the page source? i'm looking at it... but it's not showing me selected
Jun 21 19:34:30 <oil> its .palm-row.selected
Jun 21 19:34:59 <HattCzech_work> i tried that :)
Jun 21 19:35:09 <oil> thats the style
Jun 21 19:35:43 <HattCzech_work> http://webos.pastebin.com/3aW7XkmV
Jun 21 19:36:09 <oil> im just saying thats the style
Jun 21 19:36:16 <sugardave> haha
Jun 21 19:36:21 <HattCzech_work> yeah, and that's what i thought i could change
Jun 21 19:36:22 <oil> maybe it changes .palm-row.selected .palm-row-wrapper
Jun 21 19:36:27 <HattCzech_work> sadly, that isn't the case
Jun 21 19:36:31 <oil> i think it has to do with border-width
Jun 21 19:36:39 <oil> but like i said, i battled it and eventually gave up
Jun 21 19:36:54 <oil> its best to just change your design to not need shorter rows
Jun 21 19:36:55 <HattCzech_work> but then why does it work when it's not selected? :/
Jun 21 19:37:00 <HattCzech_work> i can see why
Jun 21 19:37:03 <oil> dont want to make the tap target too small anyways
Jun 21 19:37:15 <sugardave> okay, you guys are weirding me out....I only have min-height set for .palm-row and my list items do not change size
Jun 21 19:37:27 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: have you tried it in a non-popup list?
Jun 21 19:37:40 <HattCzech_work> it has to be a popup list :)
Jun 21 19:37:50 <HattCzech_work> well, for what i'm using it for
Jun 21 19:38:05 <sugardave> I understand, but if it works in a regular list, you know there's something else going on in popup land
Jun 21 19:40:23 <HattCzech_work> true
Jun 21 19:40:55 <sugardave> you are talking about Mojo.Controller.SceneController.popupSubmenu() ?
Jun 21 19:41:22 <HattCzech_work> yeah
Jun 21 19:41:35 <sugardave> have you tried setting popupClass?
Jun 21 19:41:50 * oil keeps giving "give up" advice :)
Jun 21 19:41:56 <sugardave> heh
Jun 21 19:42:03 <HattCzech_work> that's where quickText comes from
Jun 21 19:42:20 <sugardave> oh, haven't looked at the paste yet :D
Jun 21 19:42:22 <HattCzech_work> it's appended to the end
Jun 21 19:45:45 <sugardave> .palm-menu-panel?
Jun 21 19:45:57 <theninjaroach> did you try .palm-row .selected ?
Jun 21 19:46:03 <theninjaroach> (notice the space)
Jun 21 19:46:09 <sugardave> and look in global-menus.css
Jun 21 19:46:36 <HattCzech_work> yeah, i tried with the space as well
Jun 21 19:46:38 <theninjaroach> .palm-row.selected (no space) is different than .palm-row .selected
Jun 21 19:47:02 <theninjaroach> .palm-row.selected looks for children with the class selected whose parents are class palm-row - i'm 95% sure
Jun 21 19:47:21 * theninjaroach just got the hang of jquery last month, LOVES the "Sizzle" CSS selector engine to no end
Jun 21 19:47:28 <HattCzech_work> .palm-row.selected would be class="palm-row selected"
Jun 21 19:47:29 <oil> .class1.class2 looks for an element with both class1 and 2
Jun 21 19:47:39 <theninjaroach> well, i stand corrected.
Jun 21 19:47:56 <HattCzech_work> .palm-row .selected would be class="palm-row" with a subclass="selected"
Jun 21 19:48:10 * oil points to his earlier suggestion
Jun 21 19:48:11 <HattCzech_work> subclass = element within original class)
Jun 21 19:48:18 <HattCzech_work> lol
Jun 21 19:48:19 <oil> :)
Jun 21 19:48:28 <HattCzech_work> i'm going with that one, oil :)
Jun 21 19:49:01 <sugardave> but you didn't try .palm-menu-panel :P
Jun 21 19:49:52 <sugardave> or maybe you need an !important in there somewhere
Jun 21 19:50:08 * sugardave is the last person you should ask about CSS, though.
Jun 21 19:50:10 <egaudet_work> .palm-row.selected.first
Jun 21 19:50:12 <egaudet_work> .palm-row.selected.single
Jun 21 19:50:14 <egaudet_work> .palm-row.selected.last
Jun 21 19:50:54 <thomaschaaf> back I am :)
Jun 21 19:51:06 <thomaschaaf> so any ideas yet on what I should write
Jun 21 19:51:22 <sugardave> how about an app idea generator?
Jun 21 19:51:29 <egaudet_work> .palm-popup-container
Jun 21 19:51:36 <egaudet_work> .palm-popup-wrapper
Jun 21 19:52:26 <theninjaroach> egaudet - are .first/.single/.last classes defined and set by Palm / WebOS?
Jun 21 19:52:37 <theninjaroach> my idea:  take highly acclaimed apps for iPhone and port them ;)
Jun 21 19:52:44 <theninjaroach> which means it's not really my idea at all
Jun 21 19:52:56 <oil> yeah, we already got fart apps covered
Jun 21 19:53:02 <sugardave> I know .first and .last are
Jun 21 19:53:03 <egaudet_work> theninjaroach: I don't think they are definied automatically normally, but I don't know about popup selectors
Jun 21 19:53:06 <dawm> sugardave, theres already one
Jun 21 19:53:11 <dawm> for app ideas
Jun 21 19:53:13 <dawm> or there used to be
Jun 21 19:53:16 <sugardave> dawm: dammit
Jun 21 19:53:27 <dawm> i cannot remmeber the name tho
Jun 21 19:53:35 <egaudet_work> I'd simply dump the innerHTML of the scene in the popup callback and then see exactly what classes are set
Jun 21 19:53:36 <dawm> but it was full of idiots
Jun 21 19:53:43 <halfhalo_class> This computer takes way to long to start
Jun 21 19:53:43 <dawm> i need an app to control my ceiling fan
Jun 21 19:53:44 <theninjaroach> :first and :last will work with $$()..
Jun 21 19:54:13 <oil> its not :first/:last
Jun 21 19:54:16 <oil> they're classes
Jun 21 19:54:22 <theninjaroach> .getAttribute('class')
Jun 21 19:54:36 <theninjaroach> classes that are maintained by the OS then, i assume
Jun 21 19:54:42 <sugardave> yes
Jun 21 19:54:55 <sugardave> well, for some things, I guess
Jun 21 19:54:56 * BigBiff notes it is an array of classes, not a hash
Jun 21 19:55:03 <BigBiff> :p
Jun 21 19:55:09 <sugardave> if you do static list, then you need to add the classes yourself
Jun 21 19:55:20 <sugardave> oh wait
Jun 21 19:55:24 <sugardave> that;s not right either
Jun 21 19:55:33 <thomaschaaf> where can I find the list of best iphone apps?
Jun 21 19:55:41 <sugardave> I know that single items in a list get .first and .last classes set on them
Jun 21 19:55:50 <dawm> theres another fake HP app in the web feed
Jun 21 19:55:52 <dawm> Happy Puzzle
Jun 21 19:56:13 <dawm> yeah that app idea app isnt in the feeds anymore, or i cant find it
Jun 21 19:56:17 <oil> hp's webos devs suck xD
Jun 21 19:56:25 <theninjaroach> lol @ arrays and hashes.  i saw i missed out on more of that convo earlier.
Jun 21 19:56:30 <sugardave> they're a year behind
Jun 21 19:57:13 <sugardave> dawm: a ceiling fan control app wouldn't be too horrible...but I'd rather it be the whole .X10 system
Jun 21 19:57:15 * BigBiff votes twice for starmap
Jun 21 19:57:19 <theninjaroach> for my next app i will be playing with the canvas element...
Jun 21 19:57:23 <dawm> lol
Jun 21 19:57:27 <sugardave> there you go thomaschaaf: .X10 controller
Jun 21 19:57:46 * oil wishes webos had better canvas support
Jun 21 19:58:13 <theninjaroach> i've never used canvas before.  i'd be surprised to hear they have poor canvas support, considering the fact for the past 12 months it's been all they've given us to use..
Jun 21 19:58:24 <sugardave> it's freaking horrible
Jun 21 19:58:29 <thomaschaaf> sugardave: I'll do that as soon as the services API comes available it's not possible until then
Jun 21 19:58:34 <oil> well prepare to be surprised :)
Jun 21 19:58:43 <theninjaroach> can't remember if i said it, but i'd really like to build an iTunes Remote, but I think i'd need to use PDK / C in order to have socket support...
Jun 21 19:58:46 <sugardave> and that's pretty bad coming from someone like me...I draw like a kindergartener
Jun 21 19:58:49 <theninjaroach> that's disappointing.
Jun 21 19:59:09 <sugardave> thomaschaaf: surely there's a Web server for controlling .X10 devices
Jun 21 19:59:12 <sugardave> ?
Jun 21 19:59:12 <BigBiff> there's already an itunes remote
Jun 21 19:59:28 <theninjaroach> yeah, but it uses an assisted host process on the CPu
Jun 21 19:59:29 <thomaschaaf> theninjaroach: no socket support is coming for sdk too
Jun 21 19:59:37 <BigBiff> ahhhhh
Jun 21 19:59:40 <theninjaroach> That's sweet, thomas.
Jun 21 19:59:46 <oil> yeah, it runs a little webserver
Jun 21 20:00:15 <thomaschaaf> theninjaroach: they said "all API features will be the same for sdk and pdk
Jun 21 20:00:16 <theninjaroach> yeah, not a bad compromise, considering the lack of an alternative..  me learning the PDK and C and the undocumented iTunes Remote protocol is a big leap tho.
Jun 21 20:00:16 <thomaschaaf> "
Jun 21 20:00:41 * sugardave waits for access to the BT hardware.
Jun 21 20:00:42 <theninjaroach> There's a BSD-licensed iTunes Remote app that could give me a huge leg-up though
Jun 21 20:00:46 <sugardave> that's when I learn PDK
Jun 21 20:00:55 <sugardave> I have a very specific app idea
Jun 21 20:01:05 <theninjaroach> the one with the ceiling fan?  ;)
Jun 21 20:01:10 <sugardave> no
Jun 21 20:01:13 <sugardave> even better
Jun 21 20:01:23 <theninjaroach> hehe.  i have no ideas.  well, i have some, but they feel bad / bland / generic.
Jun 21 20:01:23 <dawm> im about to buy a bunch of C books Chuq recommended
Jun 21 20:01:58 <theninjaroach> I made the worst app ever and released it on friday and got 600 downloads in two days... PreCentral picked it up off the feeds I guess and too many poor souls ate it up ;)
Jun 21 20:02:26 <oil> worst app ever?
Jun 21 20:02:31 <oil> YOU made the vuvuzela app?
Jun 21 20:02:36 <oil> xD
Jun 21 20:02:54 <theninjaroach> I'm very hooked to the idea of WebOS development...  since I do normal web development I'm pretty versed in html / css / javascript, plus the whole PHP + SQL backend lets me do many things..
Jun 21 20:03:01 <theninjaroach> no.. I made "Click The Moon"
Jun 21 20:03:03 * theninjaroach ducks
Jun 21 20:03:49 <sugardave> amateur
Jun 21 20:03:50 <dawm> are you serious
Jun 21 20:03:54 <theninjaroach> it's based on the whole "Button Click Counter" training demo they have in the reference library.
Jun 21 20:04:05 <sugardave> Yule Log is the most awesomest, fastest downloaded crap app ever
Jun 21 20:04:08 <oil> lol
Jun 21 20:04:27 <theninjaroach> I put an image (the moon image they give with the project) in there for the "clicker" and then built a PHP page that tracks high scores and lets people enter their names....
Jun 21 20:04:48 <oil> fancy
Jun 21 20:04:51 <theninjaroach> currently i've wasted a collective 642,463 clicks of people who mindlessly play this game for a chance at the leaderboard
Jun 21 20:05:03 <theninjaroach> some of the names people post are hilarious
Jun 21 20:05:18 <theninjaroach> all of the scores are incredibly sad.  i quit playing my own game at about 250 clicks.
Jun 21 20:05:18 <thomaschaaf> theninjaroach: so all you do is tap on the moon? are you serious?
Jun 21 20:05:49 <codeslaw> so
Jun 21 20:05:49 <dawm> holy crap
Jun 21 20:05:52 <theninjaroach> thomaschaaf:  i'm dead serious.  i released it as a joke with my coworkers.  it's been about 2.5 days and people have clicked that moon 640,000 times
Jun 21 20:06:02 <dawm> ringwhere beta v1.0.10 got approved today
Jun 21 20:06:14 <sugardave> thomaschaaf: here's another app idea....Meditation.  Uses the accelerometer and you try to balance your device screen side down (while pressing a button) and keep it still
Jun 21 20:06:18 <dawm> and theres already 614 installs/updates
Jun 21 20:06:29 <theninjaroach> i didn't even advertise the app, but precentral and those sites picked up the web-distributed app from the RSS feeds and downloads went crazy
Jun 21 20:06:32 <theninjaroach> that's a cool idea dave.
Jun 21 20:06:51 <thomaschaaf> sugardave: on it
Jun 21 20:07:02 <theninjaroach> is ringwhere yours, dawm?
Jun 21 20:07:02 <codeslaw> i have reduced my ~30 second JSON parsing time down to ~3 seconds, 1 order of magnitude
Jun 21 20:07:06 <dawm> yeh
Jun 21 20:07:09 <thomaschaaf> mine is pi master
Jun 21 20:07:11 <sugardave> codeslaw: nice
Jun 21 20:07:13 <thomaschaaf> and <3 dice
Jun 21 20:07:13 <dawm> but see its in the beta feed
Jun 21 20:07:23 <theninjaroach> that's a cool app!
Jun 21 20:07:29 <theninjaroach> JSON parsing?
Jun 21 20:07:36 <theninjaroach> .toJSON(1) doesn't please you?
Jun 21 20:07:37 <dawm> so people actually have to work to get the update, or use preware
Jun 21 20:07:41 <codeslaw> most certainly not
Jun 21 20:07:46 <sugardave> hahaha
Jun 21 20:07:49 <codeslaw> when the string i am parsing is 80k
Jun 21 20:08:19 <theninjaroach> 80k...  what parses faster than eval??
Jun 21 20:08:30 <codeslaw> now, i wrap my JSON object in a "globalFunctionCall( {"JSON":"OBJECT})"
Jun 21 20:08:31 <sugardave> eval is evil
Jun 21 20:08:36 <dawm> you know
Jun 21 20:08:43 <codeslaw> and dynamically set the src of a script tag
Jun 21 20:08:47 <dawm> calling Mojo.Log.* takes 23ms
Jun 21 20:09:09 <codeslaw> the problem is, javascript sucks at manipulating gigantic strings
Jun 21 20:09:25 <codeslaw> but running the feed as a script tag, the js parser never creates a string object
Jun 21 20:09:27 <dawm> i removed all mine, well disabled them unless i have it in debug mode
Jun 21 20:09:28 <theninjaroach> yes it does.  my (genius) coworker was telling me about that the other day.  makes sense I suppose.
Jun 21 20:09:32 <codeslaw> it runs it as code
Jun 21 20:09:41 <theninjaroach> eval is different than string manipulation tho...
Jun 21 20:09:59 <theninjaroach> the string buffer gets allocated once
Jun 21 20:10:00 <codeslaw> theninjaroach: yes, but by using AJAX and responseText, you are by default grabbing a string
Jun 21 20:10:14 <codeslaw> that single allocation takes a long time
Jun 21 20:10:19 <sugardave> codeslaw: which feed?
Jun 21 20:10:22 <codeslaw> script tag never allocates
Jun 21 20:10:29 <codeslaw> the gallery feed in my app
Jun 21 20:10:31 <dawm> accordign to palm, im 6 purchases away from 2000
Jun 21 20:10:32 <theninjaroach> hmm..  i'd have to read more about that.
Jun 21 20:10:33 <sugardave> if you say Palm and they don't set responseJSON, I'm going to punch babies
Jun 21 20:10:36 <theninjaroach> congrats dawm
Jun 21 20:10:45 <dawm> according to my tracking its more like 2247
Jun 21 20:10:53 <codeslaw> responseJSON is what i have been using, too slow
Jun 21 20:11:00 <codeslaw> with headers properly set, etc
Jun 21 20:11:07 <sugardave> really?  lame
Jun 21 20:11:15 <sugardave> I haven't the huge data to parse, so I haven't seen it
Jun 21 20:11:21 <theninjaroach> what is responseJSON?  i've been using the Prototype .toJSON()  for a small set of data
Jun 21 20:11:24 <codeslaw> ya i messed around with it for a long time
Jun 21 20:11:50 <codeslaw> if you use the Ajax object, the result event has a property called responseJSON that you can call
Jun 21 20:12:01 <codeslaw> or read, rather
Jun 21 20:12:02 <sugardave> theninjaroach: you can set content-type:application/json and json_encode your HTTP response, comes back as nice JSON objects all set for you
Jun 21 20:12:26 <theninjaroach> yeah, i saw that in the Prototype documentation.  Wayyy too lazy to set the content type in my app.
Jun 21 20:12:30 <theninjaroach> (PHP side)
Jun 21 20:12:36 <sugardave> it's one line :P
Jun 21 20:12:44 <theninjaroach> so is .toJSON ;)
Jun 21 20:12:59 <codeslaw> header ("content-type: application/json");
Jun 21 20:15:07 <theninjaroach> Anyone know why my ~ 100KB source (including images) and ~10kb .ipk package take 1.5MB on device?
Jun 21 20:15:37 <codeslaw> mine seem generally inflated also, i just never bothered to look into why
Jun 21 20:15:59 <thomaschaaf> theninjaroach: it always includes the whole sdk
Jun 21 20:16:16 <theninjaroach> that makes sense.
Jun 21 20:16:28 <thomaschaaf> theninjaroach: actually it doesn't :/
Jun 21 20:16:30 <theninjaroach> if the OS changes.. the app will not
Jun 21 20:16:45 <thomaschaaf> they could just have the old files on the device
Jun 21 20:16:51 <theninjaroach> seems like they would be better off versioning the sdk...
Jun 21 20:17:09 <thomaschaaf> they could just version it on the device
Jun 21 20:17:11 <theninjaroach> also seems like if they are including the whole SDK as native JS, there's very little acceleration provided
Jun 21 20:17:19 <thomaschaaf> exactly..
Jun 21 20:17:31 <egaudet_work> 1.5MB of RAM?
Jun 21 20:17:38 <theninjaroach> I'm surprised they don't strip cross-browser functionality out of Prototype...
Jun 21 20:17:38 <sugardave> hdd
Jun 21 20:17:42 <thomaschaaf> they should pack it and translate it into machine code
Jun 21 20:17:45 <theninjaroach> Storage, egaudet.  according to "List Apps"
Jun 21 20:17:53 <thomaschaaf> like prerender with v8..
Jun 21 20:18:01 <theninjaroach> agreed.
Jun 21 20:18:40 <thomaschaaf> If it's 5 MB then that's okay if it runs faster..
Jun 21 20:19:16 <thomaschaaf> maybe actually that is the case and the flash space on the device is slower than just rendering it live
Jun 21 20:19:23 <theninjaroach> seems like those libraries should all stay resident somewhere...
Jun 21 20:19:33 <HattCzech_work> hmmm, anyone from palm around?
Jun 21 20:19:58 <theninjaroach> i have a suggestion i'd like to submit to Palm.. Re: Device IDs and their suggested best practice of *not* relying on them to identify the user
Jun 21 20:20:00 <thomaschaaf> HattCzech_work: why? what do you need we can't help with?
Jun 21 20:20:15 <HattCzech_work> app submission :)
Jun 21 20:20:18 <egaudet_work> I don't think the app is packaging any SDK stuff
Jun 21 20:20:27 <djk> is something up with preware? I have selected a few apps to install and it just brings up the precentral site instead of install
Jun 21 20:20:44 <HattCzech_work> submitted 1.0.5, requested rejection... now trying to re-submit 1.0.5, and it doesn't like that i'm using the same version
Jun 21 20:20:57 <thomaschaaf> egaudet_work: you think its encryption to verify the origin?
Jun 21 20:21:24 <thomaschaaf> HattCzech_work: what did you include that they didn't like
Jun 21 20:21:27 <sugardave> djk: check with #webos-internals
Jun 21 20:21:30 <thomaschaaf> i'm interessted
Jun 21 20:21:32 <egaudet_work> my app shows correct size
Jun 21 20:21:33 <HattCzech_work> the package with the same name
Jun 21 20:21:44 <theninjaroach> maybe they pre-allocate certain amount of space for cookies, sqlite storage, etc
Jun 21 20:22:09 <egaudet_work> I don't think that's the case
Jun 21 20:22:15 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: if it has finished the rejection process, that might be why....OR you might need to rev it regardless
Jun 21 20:22:25 <sugardave> has NOT
Jun 21 20:23:09 <HattCzech_work> it has finished rejection
Jun 21 20:23:18 <HattCzech_work> but i don't want to skip a version when it was never published
Jun 21 20:24:00 <sugardave> hmmm, I have an old Mind Master 1.1.0 rejection AND the current version is 1.1.0
Jun 21 20:24:03 <sugardave> so, no idea
Jun 21 20:24:04 <sugardave> :D
Jun 21 20:26:20 <djk> sugardave: I did but no response to it figured I ask here too. Thanks
Jun 21 20:31:00 <HattCzech_work> hmmm, odd
Jun 21 20:36:31 <sugardave> anybody work with downloadManager much?
Jun 21 20:36:59 <HattCzech_work> theninjaroach: what's your suggestion about deviceIds?
Jun 21 20:37:39 <thomaschaaf> theninjaroach: hmm the meditation game would suck with people who will just pit it on the table
Jun 21 20:38:01 <sugardave> that's why it needs a button tap
Jun 21 20:38:34 <sugardave> if you aren't holding it where your finger is touching the button, then it doesn't count
Jun 21 20:38:37 <sugardave> it's not perfect
Jun 21 20:39:15 <theninjaroach> my idea... i swear it just disappeared
Jun 21 20:39:24 <Mousey> ctrl-z
Jun 21 20:39:34 <sugardave> it might also have to be Pre-only...center of gravity on the Pixi might make the meditation game impossible
Jun 21 20:40:13 <theninjaroach> Before I get started...  let me verify, Palm DOES NOT give us access to the Palm Account Name, correct?
Jun 21 20:40:29 <sugardave> as far as I know that is correct
Jun 21 20:40:36 <theninjaroach> But they do give us a hash of device ID
Jun 21 20:40:46 <theninjaroach> and then tell us it's not best practice to rely on it, because users change devices.
Jun 21 20:40:51 <sugardave> right
Jun 21 20:40:58 <theninjaroach> then why in the heck don't they give us a unique hash of user account names?
Jun 21 20:41:18 <sugardave> I know this one!
Jun 21 20:41:24 <sugardave> "Privacy concerns"
Jun 21 20:41:26 <theninjaroach> i don't want to coerce username registration out of people
Jun 21 20:41:29 <theninjaroach> privacy concerns my ass.
Jun 21 20:41:37 <sugardave> go on, ask them why
Jun 21 20:41:40 <theninjaroach> there's nothing i can't already datamine that isn't already in the deviceid ahs
Jun 21 20:41:41 <theninjaroach> hash*
Jun 21 20:41:43 <HattCzech_work> i just use deviceId and be done with it :)
Jun 21 20:42:08 <theninjaroach> If I wanted to be a big scary datamining bastard, I could release 100 apps and capture the same DeviceID hash from all of the users to see who's downloading what.
Jun 21 20:42:08 <sugardave> theninjaroach: you can't "follow" a user when they change devices, though, with just nduid
Jun 21 20:42:24 * HattCzech_work ponders how difficult it would be to reverse hash information from the deviceId
Jun 21 20:42:35 <halfhalo_class> easy
Jun 21 20:42:45 <theninjaroach> why is changing devices the only way for a user to get any privacy then?
Jun 21 20:42:47 <theninjaroach> it's senseless.
Jun 21 20:42:50 <halfhalo_class> since its basically the serial num iirc
Jun 21 20:42:58 <sugardave> hey, I never said it made sense
Jun 21 20:43:13 <HattCzech_work> halfhalo_class: so they only use serial num in the deviceId?
Jun 21 20:43:15 <theninjaroach> give me a random, unique, not-reverse-look-up-able hash for the user
Jun 21 20:43:22 <theninjaroach> rather than the device
Jun 21 20:43:25 <halfhalo_class> I believe
Jun 21 20:43:37 <theninjaroach> so i don't have to bug people for account registration to store data for them
Jun 21 20:43:48 <sugardave> theninjaroach: I agree, it would be great
Jun 21 20:43:49 <HattCzech_work> ahhh, then yeah, that would be easier with only 1 input
Jun 21 20:43:51 <theninjaroach> and also so i won't "lose" their data when they switch devices.
Jun 21 20:44:59 <theninjaroach> if they're going to give us deviceId, they should go the extra step to give us a hash of the userId so we can best serve our users without annoying them to register for an account "just in case you ever switch devicesA"
Jun 21 20:45:03 <sugardave> along with that, there also should be a service we can query to determine if that hashed user information represents someone who actually purchased your app, but that's not going to happen, either
Jun 21 20:45:36 <sugardave> purchased and/or obtained from the official app catalog
Jun 21 20:45:38 <theninjaroach> interesting, dave.  i *could* see privacy concerns there, but they could also secure it so an app can only ask about itself..
Jun 21 20:46:06 <sugardave> or get in the business of handing out registration keys to devs and the management that all entails
Jun 21 20:46:19 <sugardave> since I'd want to use it on my cloud and not in an app per se
Jun 21 20:46:25 <theninjaroach> if you used a deviceId to register your software with, the software would die when the user changes devices...  again, deviceId kinda sucks.  it's only part way useful.
Jun 21 20:47:43 <HattCzech_work> just have it query a server :) that'
Jun 21 20:47:48 <HattCzech_work> s what i do
Jun 21 20:48:06 <thomaschaaf> HattCzech_work: what do you do when the device is offline?
Jun 21 20:48:09 <HattCzech_work> if someone switches devices, i can remove the deviceId, and then they can register the new one
Jun 21 20:48:19 <HattCzech_work> defaults to null, so ignores it
Jun 21 20:48:21 <theninjaroach> yeah...  ashame about that user hash...
Jun 21 20:48:39 <HattCzech_work> (this is for ads, so...)
Jun 21 20:48:41 <theninjaroach> in reality, i'm not sure we can do anything to protect ourselves from 'hackers'
Jun 21 20:48:45 <sugardave> actually, what they could do is have devices "phone home" to palm app catalog and the response goes to our backend as "yes" or "no"
Jun 21 20:48:48 <HattCzech_work> not too proud, but it works
Jun 21 20:48:49 <theninjaroach> like the guys at webos internals
Jun 21 20:49:05 <theninjaroach> you can't keep root from reading text files..
Jun 21 20:51:34 <codeslaw> holy crap
Jun 21 20:51:49 <codeslaw> my app update just got instant-rejected for using a non-public api
Jun 21 20:51:57 <codeslaw> but the "call" was simpy a comment in my code
Jun 21 20:52:00 <sugardave> doh
Jun 21 20:52:06 <theninjaroach> Did you submit to the Apple App Store or what?
Jun 21 20:52:15 <theninjaroach> wow.  awesome system they have there...
Jun 21 20:52:24 <codeslaw> that comment has been there for the last 3 versions at least
Jun 21 20:52:53 <HattCzech_work> heheh interesting
Jun 21 20:53:21 <sugardave> you can't use .call()
Jun 21 20:53:22 <sugardave> ?
Jun 21 20:53:34 <sugardave> wtf, that's regular js, isn't it?
Jun 21 20:53:56 <codeslaw> no no, i just emphasized the word call
Jun 21 20:54:01 <sugardave> oh, I see
Jun 21 20:54:08 <codeslaw> it was "palm://com.palm.systemmanager/takeScreenShot"
Jun 21 20:54:12 <codeslaw> which doesn't even work
Jun 21 20:54:16 <sugardave> hehe
Jun 21 20:54:21 <codeslaw> and i left in the comments for whatever reason
Jun 21 20:54:48 <theninjaroach> do you guys know what kind of inspection tools i have in the emulator i can use besides the debugger?
Jun 21 20:54:59 <sugardave> hmmm
Jun 21 20:55:01 <sugardave> tail is good
Jun 21 20:55:05 <sugardave> cat
Jun 21 20:55:20 <sugardave> vi works
Jun 21 20:55:25 <theninjaroach> i've read about a 'firebug lite' but don't remember where...
Jun 21 20:55:54 <sugardave> there is also host emulator mode where you can use webkit dev thingie, but it's basically inspector
Jun 21 20:56:10 <theninjaroach> how do I enable that?
Jun 21 20:56:11 <codeslaw> been meaning to try that emulator host mode
Jun 21 20:56:14 <sugardave> theninjaroach: bokmark this
Jun 21 20:56:16 <sugardave> javascript:var firebug=document.createElement('script');firebug.setAttribute('src','http://getfirebug.com/releases/lite/1.2/firebug-lite-compressed.js');document.body.appendChild(firebug);(function(){if(window.firebug.version){firebug.init();}else{setTimeout(arguments.callee);}})();void(firebug);
Jun 21 20:56:17 <theninjaroach> inspector doesn't run on my OpenSUSE 11.2
Jun 21 20:56:37 <sugardave> theninjaroach: inspector doesn't run for me, either...I use host emu mode
Jun 21 20:56:45 <sugardave> works well, unless you're looking at webviews
Jun 21 20:56:58 <theninjaroach> and how do i run that?
Jun 21 20:57:43 <sugardave> ssh tunnel, ssh -p 5522 -L [some open port on your host]:localhost:8080 root@localhost
Jun 21 20:57:59 <sugardave> then, launch the app in inspect mode with palm-launch -i
Jun 21 20:58:20 <sugardave> then point a browser to localhost:[that port]/Apps
Jun 21 20:58:30 <theninjaroach> sweet.
Jun 21 20:58:38 <theninjaroach> been awhile since i used SSH tunneling.. such a sweet tech.
Jun 21 20:58:40 <theninjaroach> poor man's VPN :)
Jun 21 20:58:47 <sugardave> it's very nice :D
Jun 21 20:59:22 <theninjaroach> i need to set that tunnel up on my host, right?
Jun 21 20:59:30 <sugardave> yeah, where the emu is running
Jun 21 20:59:32 <Mousey> sugar, or ssh -D[someport] destinat.ion instead
Jun 21 20:59:41 <Mousey> a lot less to type
Jun 21 20:59:44 <Mousey> dynamic SOCKS win
Jun 21 20:59:50 <sugardave> Mousey: okay, I just went with the documentation :P
Jun 21 21:01:23 <codeslaw> anyone in need of a laugh: go to app catalog, find Paintr Lite, read reviews, 3rd one down from Andrew A
Jun 21 21:01:49 <JenP> hi all
Jun 21 21:01:55 <theninjaroach> whoa, host emulator is weird!
Jun 21 21:01:56 <HattCzech_work> hey JenP
Jun 21 21:01:59 <codeslaw> hallo
Jun 21 21:02:10 <JenP> hi guys!
Jun 21 21:02:24 <sugardave> codeslaw: rofl
Jun 21 21:02:32 <sugardave> I don't think that one will last long
Jun 21 21:02:46 <EmmettLollis> lol
Jun 21 21:02:51 <HattCzech_work> codeslaw: wow! that is an interesting comment
Jun 21 21:03:09 <codeslaw> its my users who drive the features, ya know?
Jun 21 21:03:13 <theninjaroach> LOL
Jun 21 21:03:18 <sugardave> heh
Jun 21 21:03:32 <theninjaroach> how did that get by their automatic filters but a comment in your code did not?  ;)
Jun 21 21:03:41 <codeslaw> haha seriously!!
Jun 21 21:03:44 <thomaschaaf> lol
Jun 21 21:03:48 <sugardave> answer: no auto filter on app reviews!
Jun 21 21:04:10 <codeslaw> now i have to increment my version # as well, since my IPK "does not contain a unique file name when compared against all other ipk file names in our system."
Jun 21 21:04:17 <EmmettLollis> i'm downloading your app.. looks cool
Jun 21 21:04:30 <codeslaw> EmmettLollis: sweet!
Jun 21 21:04:33 <theninjaroach> that's lame..
Jun 21 21:04:34 <thomaschaaf> If I create a second account and release a porn app will my other account be deleted?
Jun 21 21:04:40 <HattCzech_work> anyone want to translate a german review for me?
Jun 21 21:04:47 <thomaschaaf> HattCzech_work: go
Jun 21 21:04:51 <theninjaroach> sure.  but i can't speak german ;)
Jun 21 21:05:09 <thomaschaaf> theninjaroach: ARRR ARRR AARRRR that's what I always write :)
Jun 21 21:05:11 <pandora--> thomaschaaf: lol.. i have no idea
Jun 21 21:05:18 <HattCzech_work> app catalog -> txt group -> 3rd one down by Agasso A
Jun 21 21:05:24 <sugardave> thomaschaaf: if you can get a porn app into the catalog, more power to you
Jun 21 21:05:28 <thomaschaaf> please send
Jun 21 21:05:34 <thomaschaaf> get it from cyrket
Jun 21 21:05:39 <HattCzech_work> oh, i'll attempt to type it :)
Jun 21 21:05:42 <sugardave> but I put your chances at very low
Jun 21 21:05:53 <theninjaroach> high score leaderboards always lead to interesting names...
Jun 21 21:05:53 <thomaschaaf> HattCzech_work: CYRKET!
Jun 21 21:06:07 <theninjaroach> someone got a score of 8008 clicks in my sham of an app, they posted the name "It Says BOOB       8008"
Jun 21 21:06:16 <thomaschaaf> f.e. http://www.cyrket.com/p/palm/de.komola.pi/
Jun 21 21:06:18 <sugardave> I have an app idea WITH NO PICTURES and it's still going to be considered pornography
Jun 21 21:06:22 <codeslaw> you could get it in under the guise of something else, then just pull a bunch of porn in until they caught you
Jun 21 21:06:32 * sugardave waits for the mythical "adult content" section to arrive.
Jun 21 21:06:54 <thomaschaaf> I would love an adult only section..
Jun 21 21:07:09 <thomaschaaf> so many nice things I'd like to do :/
Jun 21 21:07:11 <sugardave> get in line
Jun 21 21:07:25 <theninjaroach> this line scares me
Jun 21 21:07:27 <theninjaroach> ;)
Jun 21 21:07:38 <thomaschaaf> HattCzech_work: can you send me the string I shall translate..
Jun 21 21:07:42 <sugardave> here, you can get in front of me
Jun 21 21:07:46 <sugardave> ;)
Jun 21 21:07:51 <theninjaroach> the reviews on my app are pretty funny ;)
Jun 21 21:08:15 <thomaschaaf> I like: "I like big buts and i can not lie that a itty bittys got to test-a-fy what a mother f**ker cant deny that i know a hundered digits of pi!"
Jun 21 21:08:16 <theninjaroach> someone gave me 5 stars with the review:  "This is ridiculous, and I love how cramped my fingers get."
Jun 21 21:08:57 <codeslaw> lol
Jun 21 21:08:57 <theninjaroach> another 5 stars:  "I don't see why anyone would give bad reviews.  The app is called "click the moon" what did you expect?"
Jun 21 21:09:01 <HattCzech_work> "Gute Sache. Richtig glu:cklich wa:re ich, wenn es mo:glich wa:re, wine Nut-Text-MMS zu verschicken, damit sehr lange Nachrichten nicht in mehrere SMS aufgeteilt werden; ausserdem wa:re dies billiger. Das ist zwar nicht der Sinn dieses Programms, aber es wa:re eine willkommene Erga:nzung. Danke."
Jun 21 21:09:14 <theninjaroach> A 4 star rating:  "The moon doesn't make much sense"
Jun 21 21:09:19 <sugardave> I got dammit
Jun 21 21:09:27 <HattCzech_work> i don't have those special characters, so u: a: and e: look like that :)
Jun 21 21:09:46 <theninjaroach> and perhaps my favorite, a 5 star rating:  "Mmmmst mmmmst mmmmst mmmst Click That Moon!"
Jun 21 21:10:10 <theninjaroach> and finally, a 0 star rating "You should be ashamed to call this an app"  (he's the only correct one of the bunch)
Jun 21 21:10:28 <HattCzech_work> lol
Jun 21 21:10:42 <thomaschaaf> "Good stuff. I'd be really happy, if you'd add the functionality to send a mms with text only so that long messages aren't split into multiple sms. This would be a lot cheaper. But its not the purpose of the app, but would be a great addition. Thanks
Jun 21 21:10:44 <thomaschaaf> "
Jun 21 21:10:44 <theninjaroach> you guys ever run into problems with people trying to hack your leaderboards?
Jun 21 21:11:11 <codeslaw> theninjaroach: always will
Jun 21 21:11:13 <theninjaroach> who has a webos device with limited text???  maybe AT&T customers...
Jun 21 21:11:22 <sugardave> no, but all the thought exepriments I had about how to combat it always led to the same place
Jun 21 21:11:27 <thomaschaaf> theninjaroach: everyone except us :D
Jun 21 21:11:28 <sugardave> there's nothing you can do about it
Jun 21 21:11:36 <thomaschaaf> I pay 20 cent per sms..
Jun 21 21:12:00 <theninjaroach> i don't think it's happened to me yet....  Maybe..  but my weblogs look legit, could catch a lazy hacker that way.
Jun 21 21:12:05 <thomaschaaf> so having a girlfriend gets expensive :D
Jun 21 21:12:15 <theninjaroach> some of the scores are astronomical... but i don't see many repeated requests from the same IP...
Jun 21 21:12:25 <sugardave> thomaschaaf: you don't need a per message charge to have girlfriends be expensive
Jun 21 21:12:38 <thomaschaaf> sugardave: also true
Jun 21 21:12:56 <theninjaroach> well, time for me to head home.
Jun 21 21:13:05 <sugardave> one night of forgetting to use a condom, and well, you know that's going to cost you
Jun 21 21:13:06 <theninjaroach> gonig to try and cook ribs for the first time tonight... wish me luck!
Jun 21 21:13:13 <sugardave> beef or pork?
Jun 21 21:13:16 <theninjaroach> "forgetting" or not wanting to?  ;)
Jun 21 21:13:18 <theninjaroach> pork
Jun 21 21:13:20 <codeslaw> theninjaroach: if you haven't started them yet
Jun 21 21:13:24 <codeslaw> you're doing it wrong
Jun 21 21:13:30 <sugardave> agreed
Jun 21 21:13:35 <sugardave> low and slow
Jun 21 21:13:48 <codeslaw> a texas approved message
Jun 21 21:13:53 <sugardave> hehe
Jun 21 21:14:12 <HattCzech_work> hahaha true
Jun 21 21:14:37 <HattCzech_work> thanks, thomaschaaf
Jun 21 21:14:55 <HattCzech_work> not sure if i can manage the multi-SMS -> MMS conversion, but that would be interesting
Jun 21 21:15:21 <theninjaroach> well the idea is to eat them late tonight ;)
Jun 21 21:15:38 <codeslaw> anyone know the latest update times?
Jun 21 21:15:43 <theninjaroach> base64 enocde em ;)
Jun 21 21:15:44 <codeslaw> havent submitted one in a month
Jun 21 21:15:51 <codeslaw> or 2
Jun 21 21:15:53 <sugardave> codeslaw: no idea
Jun 21 21:16:04 <sugardave> it's been since the catalog was still in beta for me
Jun 21 21:16:10 <theninjaroach> nope.  i'm off to think of my new app...  and wait for them ribs to cook.  see ya
Jun 21 21:16:17 <HattCzech_work> anyone know how i can get myself back up on the leaderboard? :/
Jun 21 21:16:23 <HattCzech_work> i was on it for 2 days
Jun 21 21:16:31 <lyht> codeslaw: you mean how long does it take from submit the update to published?
Jun 21 21:16:37 <codeslaw> lyht: ya
Jun 21 21:16:41 <lyht> 1-3 days for me.
Jun 21 21:16:41 <HattCzech_work> and seriously? emoticons free is getting $10k? :(
Jun 21 21:17:06 <codeslaw> HattCzech_work: they just passed me =( so is KarmaSutra, and other useless crap
Jun 21 21:17:07 <HattCzech_work> codeslaw: that's about what i've been seeing... usually 2-3 days
Jun 21 21:17:14 <codeslaw> right on, not bad
Jun 21 21:17:23 <codeslaw> i want to take 10th back from emoticons
Jun 21 21:17:24 <theninjaroach> KarmaSutra may not be so useless.  depends on the users i suppose
Jun 21 21:17:30 <thomaschaaf> karmasutra sucked balls :(
Jun 21 21:17:35 <theninjaroach> didn't download it..
Jun 21 21:17:39 <codeslaw> the book is great, the APP sucks horribly
Jun 21 21:17:39 <thomaschaaf> I need more how to :/
Jun 21 21:17:41 <theninjaroach> but i guess that seems to fit the bill, right?
Jun 21 21:17:46 <codeslaw> its only there because of pictures of hot girls
Jun 21 21:17:48 <thomaschaaf> I was looking at some of them and was like.. how...
Jun 21 21:18:08 <HattCzech_work> lol
Jun 21 21:18:25 <HattCzech_work> codeslaw: care to promote another app made in austin? ;)
Jun 21 21:18:28 <thomaschaaf> but that's just me
Jun 21 21:18:55 <codeslaw> HattCzech_work: which app is yours?
Jun 21 21:19:11 <codeslaw> group text?
Jun 21 21:19:25 <HattCzech_work> yup
Jun 21 21:21:12 <thomaschaaf> I hate the "Love test"
Jun 21 21:21:27 <HattCzech_work> there are many on the leaderboard that i hate
Jun 21 21:21:29 <HattCzech_work> :)
Jun 21 21:21:45 <sugardave> damn, somebody stole my love test idea!
Jun 21 21:21:46 <thomaschaaf> first of all all you do is type in 2 strings and then it returns a number and 2nd it gave me and my girl like 17 when I just entered firstnames
Jun 21 21:21:55 <thomaschaaf> and 99 when I entered lastnames aswell
Jun 21 21:22:00 <sugardave> oh, that's not my idea
Jun 21 21:22:10 <sugardave> yay
Jun 21 21:22:16 <HattCzech_work> phew! good thing! :)
Jun 21 21:22:21 <HattCzech_work> hhehe
Jun 21 21:22:22 <sugardave> heh
Jun 21 21:23:33 <sugardave> well, I believe I have procrastinated on this next part of the project long enough
Jun 21 21:23:48 <HattCzech_work> where's chuq today? or some other palm person that i can get my issue resolved with?
Jun 21 21:23:51 <sugardave> maybe it will all come together perfectly the first time
Jun 21 21:24:05 <HattCzech_work> (sent an e-mail to pdc, but no response yet)
Jun 21 21:24:16 <thomaschaaf> what do you think of me redoing http://culturedcode.com/things/iphone/?r=100 for webos?
Jun 21 21:24:21 <HattCzech_work> sugardave: i know how the procrastination works
Jun 21 21:25:01 <ianbeck> If it syncs with Things for Mac, I'd use it; it'd be hell to support, though, since you'd be relying on a third party's data format
Jun 21 21:25:05 <HattCzech_work> isn't there a task management app already?
Jun 21 21:25:21 <HattCzech_work> Done! (someone in here made it)
Jun 21 21:25:28 <HattCzech_work> (if they're here right now)
Jun 21 21:29:08 <thomaschaaf> hmm
Jun 21 21:29:34 <thomaschaaf> can't find an iphone app I want to copy exept the clock app
Jun 21 21:39:49 <thomaschaaf> I don't understand why all websites related to the iphone require quicktime while jobs supports html5 and its video tag
Jun 21 21:45:17 <thomaschaaf> I have found the app I will be writing :) thanks #webos <3
Jun 21 21:45:26 <thomaschaaf> it's midnight :(
Jun 21 21:45:39 <thomaschaaf> will make some mockups and then the day after tomorrow the flight
Jun 21 21:46:28 <sugardave> anybody know if downloadManager tickets (for downloaded files) are per-session or lifetime?  Meaning, in 2 months, can I tell downloadManager to delete a downloaded file if I can supply the original ticket number?
Jun 21 22:02:43 <pandora--> thomaschaaf: what's the app gonna be?
Jun 21 22:03:04 <lyht> sugardave: I dont really know, but when I was playing with it thought it was session based.
Jun 21 22:03:18 <thomaschaaf> pandora--: I'll write an expense tracking software very basic but functional :)
Jun 21 22:04:07 <pandora--> cool
Jun 21 22:04:28 <thomaschaaf> will be a little like: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=287129922&mt=8&ign-mpt=uo%3D4#
Jun 21 22:04:32 <pandora--> how are you going to integrate vuvezulas or boobs into that?
Jun 21 22:04:44 <pandora--> (the requirements for good downloads, naturally)
Jun 21 22:04:59 <thomaschaaf> I will make it so if you type a special amount it will open spankwire in a browser :)
Jun 21 22:05:12 <pandora--> lol
Jun 21 22:05:16 <pandora--> 80085
Jun 21 22:05:17 <pandora--> ?
Jun 21 22:05:31 <sugardave> hmm, I thought the sandbox let us save files to dirs under our appPath?
Jun 21 22:05:44 <thomaschaaf> sugardave: it does
Jun 21 22:05:47 <pandora--> hrm, dunno
Jun 21 22:05:54 <sugardave> how with downloadManager?
Jun 21 22:05:58 <thomaschaaf> yep
Jun 21 22:06:04 <thomaschaaf> let me find it
Jun 21 22:06:05 <sugardave> it keeps overwriting my target
Jun 21 22:06:14 <sugardave> with /media/internal/downloads
Jun 21 22:06:52 <thomaschaaf> http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1790&Itemid=273#download
Jun 21 22:06:57 <sugardave> thanks
Jun 21 22:07:06 <thomaschaaf> The local directory in which to save the file. This directory must be beneath /media/internal and will default to /media/internal/downloads if not specified.
Jun 21 22:07:37 <pandora--> ah
Jun 21 22:07:47 <sugardave> that's what I was unclear on...I want to save it into Mojo.appPath + 'some other dir'
Jun 21 22:07:49 <pandora--> so not in the app path, but in /media
Jun 21 22:07:53 <sugardave> yeah, suck
Jun 21 22:08:57 <sugardave> so what the hell is all the hubbub about our app's sandbox if we can't actually do anything with it?
Jun 21 22:09:00 <sugardave> that's dumb
Jun 21 22:09:28 <thomaschaaf> I thought it was for contacts
Jun 21 22:09:48 <thomaschaaf> so your app can create contacts and when you delete the app it will delete the contacts too
Jun 21 22:09:51 <sugardave> they put out a whole list of dirs one time where we could presumably write/read files
Jun 21 22:10:04 <thomaschaaf> when do you guys think the new devices will be annouced?
Jun 21 22:10:54 <thomaschaaf> I really want a new one with a compass better camera and a bit better screen and nicer usb input thingy.. maybe just have syncing be better so I can always charge via the touchstone
Jun 21 22:11:29 <thomaschaaf> although I do need the power since I use my phone as a modem ALOT
Jun 21 22:12:51 <jlund> thomaschaaf: Hopefully soon.
Jun 21 22:13:04 <thomaschaaf> jlund: whats your wishlist?
Jun 21 22:15:01 <jlund> thomaschaaf: New OMAP processor that is faster than Snapdragon, higher-resolution screen, more memory (both RAM and storage), solid GPU and hardware-accelerated user interface, excellent virtual keyboard.
Jun 21 22:15:29 <jlund> Compatibility with existing Touchstone charging bases would be a real nice bonus too.
Jun 21 22:15:33 <thomaschaaf> jlund: why the v keyboar?
Jun 21 22:15:42 <EmmettLollis> i want a 42 inch screen
Jun 21 22:15:54 <jlund> And I agree with you, the ability to wirelessly sync media without a USB cable would be very, very cool.
Jun 21 22:16:26 <pandora--> yeah
Jun 21 22:16:41 <jlund> thomaschaaf: Virtual keyboard because it lends itself to more attractive form factors and can be just as fast when done properly.
Jun 21 22:16:55 <jlund> thomaschaaf: More durable also.
Jun 21 22:17:27 <thomaschaaf> jlund: I would want a sideways keyboard more like a sidekick
Jun 21 22:18:46 <jlund> thomaschaaf: In my opinion, virtual > hardware portrait > hardware landscape. I don't like having to rotate a lot.
Jun 21 22:19:08 * pandora-- likes his physical keyboard
Jun 21 22:19:23 * thomaschaaf agrees with pandora-- 
Jun 21 22:19:32 * EmmettLollis agrees also
Jun 21 22:19:41 <pandora--> i would put it as hardware portrait > hardware landscape > virtual
Jun 21 22:19:51 <pandora--> but it's clearly a preference thing
Jun 21 22:20:01 <jlund> Whatever they do, there needs to be better error correction. Spell checking, etc. Once they implement this error correction a virtual keyboard should be an easy option.
Jun 21 22:21:08 <jlund> I wouldn't at all be opposed to a hardware keyboard, but I do think they need a software option too. The virtual keyboard is definitely going to happen though, just because there's no chance--absolutely zero--that a WebOS tablet will feature a hardware keyboard.
Jun 21 22:21:27 <pandora--> though, I would like the Pre/Pixi to have the virtual keyboard too, sometimes I would like that for when i just have to type a word or two and want to be nice to my Pre slide hinge :)
Jun 21 22:21:51 <jlund> But given the legion of issues that the hardware keyboard has caused on the Pre hardware-wise (oreo effect, etc.) I just think it would be better to dump it entirely.
Jun 21 22:22:14 <jlund> Or make it always present on the face like the Pixi, but then you're taking room away from what otherwise could be a screen.
Jun 21 22:25:01 <pandora--> oreo effect?
Jun 21 22:25:32 <thomaschaaf> I hope they add a magnifing lense so you can say exactly where you want to click in a textbox
Jun 21 22:25:37 <jlund> pandora--: Where the two halves of the slider twist from side to side or otherwise become loose.
Jun 21 22:25:39 <thomaschaaf> and make copy paste better
Jun 21 22:25:54 <ianbeck> thomaschaaf: God, yes; I hate WebOS's cursor placement compared to the iPhone
Jun 21 22:26:03 <pandora--> jlund: lol gotcha, that analogy makes more sense now :)
Jun 21 22:26:12 <jlund> thomaschaaf: Agreed, though the WebOS copy and paste implementation is miles ahead of Android.
Jun 21 22:26:18 <pandora--> thomaschaaf: i don't mind copy/paste so much actually
Jun 21 22:26:44 <thomaschaaf> there are so many little things I want to get fixed :(
Jun 21 22:26:53 <ianbeck> I'm not against their copy/paste, but cursor placement and text selection is a wasteland of usability problems
Jun 21 22:27:12 <thomaschaaf> how do you copy something I don't understand can so explain?
Jun 21 22:27:27 <thomaschaaf> I am on a website and need to copy a password
Jun 21 22:27:31 <thomaschaaf> 32 chars
Jun 21 22:27:33 <thomaschaaf> go :)
Jun 21 22:27:37 <HattCzech_work> hold shift and swipe up/down or left/right
Jun 21 22:27:38 <jlund> thomaschaaf: You hold down the shift key and click on the text.
Jun 21 22:28:38 <thomaschaaf> I can only select paragraphs :/
Jun 21 22:29:36 <jlund> thomaschaaf: Paste into notes and use line breaks to chop it up. Then select the piece you need.
Jun 21 22:29:59 <thomaschaaf> jlund: that is a good workaround but REALLYL?!
Jun 21 22:30:03 <jlund> thomaschaaf: I agree that this sucks, and needs to be fixed, but the last time that I used Android I couldn't figure out how to copy *any* text from a web page.
Jun 21 22:30:17 <jlund> thomaschaaf: Maybe it is fixed now on Android.
Jun 21 22:30:42 <sugardave> so, here's one thing I never bothered to learn...wtf is MIME, why do I need it (do I need it) , and wtf should I set it for any given type?  who makes up the type strings?
Jun 21 22:30:54 <thomaschaaf> why is no one at palm needing a decent alarm clock :(
Jun 21 22:30:57 <thomaschaaf> I hate it...
Jun 21 22:31:30 <thomaschaaf> sugardave: MIME is the type of text it is it could be css or html or what ever it could be an image
Jun 21 22:31:41 <sugardave> yes, let's say mp3 file
Jun 21 22:31:41 <thomaschaaf> it just tells a program that is reading a file what to do with it
Jun 21 22:31:47 <pandora--> it's the type of content you're dealing with (not just text)
Jun 21 22:31:52 <sugardave> what is the string text/mp3?  that doesn't seem right
Jun 21 22:32:09 <thomaschaaf> should be media/mp3 or sth
Jun 21 22:32:21 <pandora--> audio/mpeg == mp3
Jun 21 22:32:26 <thomaschaaf> jup
Jun 21 22:32:33 <sugardave> so, I COULD just eliminate it if I am handling all the stuff and be alright?
Jun 21 22:33:03 <thomaschaaf> you /could/
Jun 21 22:33:05 <pandora--> sugardave: eliminate it from what?
Jun 21 22:33:08 <pandora--> the download manager?
Jun 21 22:33:10 <sugardave> i.e. I download the mp3 in my app and play it in my app....I don't need the mime type
Jun 21 22:33:22 <sugardave> pandora--: yeah, from the parms for downloadmanager
Jun 21 22:33:27 <thomaschaaf> but everything in /media/internals can be seen from usb
Jun 21 22:33:28 <pandora--> no, the download manager defaults the downloaded content to text/plain MIME if you don't specifiy it
Jun 21 22:33:37 <sugardave> fuck
Jun 21 22:33:44 <pandora--> which might definitely fuck your download if you want binary ;)
Jun 21 22:33:45 <sugardave> okay, good to know
Jun 21 22:33:49 <sugardave> hehe
Jun 21 22:33:52 <pandora--> heh (rtfm ftw)
Jun 21 22:34:20 <pandora--> yeah i dealt with it a few weeks ago, still fresh enough in my head
Jun 21 22:34:57 <sugardave> gracias
Jun 21 22:37:15 <codeslaw> bbl home
Jun 21 22:39:19 <pandora--> i think downloadmanager is kinda borked though
Jun 21 22:39:21 <pandora--> for some stuff
Jun 21 22:40:11 <sugardave> hoping this works because it looks like I can use it to track download status and use a progress indicator all neat and tidy
Jun 21 22:40:16 <pandora--> doing multipart upload with customhttp headers, fail
Jun 21 22:40:28 <sugardave> banana banana banana
Jun 21 22:40:38 <pandora--> whahh?
Jun 21 22:40:53 <sugardave> that's what what you typed sounded like in my head when I read it
Jun 21 22:43:19 <JenP> LOL
Jun 21 22:44:56 <pandora--> lol
Jun 21 22:46:53 <pandora--> sugardave: haven't dealt with a lot of networking stuff eh? heh
Jun 21 22:48:43 <sugardave> pandora--: how'd you guess? :P
Jun 21 22:54:25 <haeffb> thomaschaaf: things would be cool...
Jun 21 23:38:45 <EmmettLollis> someone give me a shove so i will get back to writing my app
Jun 21 23:44:32 * JenP shoves hard
Jun 21 23:45:43 <EmmettLollis> ty Jen
Jun 21 23:45:54 <JenP> (fl)
Jun 21 23:54:10 <pandora--> yehh
Jun 21 23:58:32 <EmmettLollis> right
Jun 22 00:00:23 <dawm> any webos books worth buying?
Jun 22 00:01:32 <EmmettLollis> thats a good question
Jun 22 00:02:51 <EmmettLollis> i would like to know the answer myself
Jun 22 00:03:34 <sugardave> I hear Frank Z.'s book is good, but can't remember the title
Jun 22 00:06:52 <dawm> Practical Palm Pre WebOS Projects
Jun 22 00:08:43 <JenP> has anyone seen this before? http://www.screencast.com/users/g33kgirl/folders/Jing/media/9f7c231d-ede5-4ed0-ab45-65b722b152cf
Jun 22 00:08:58 <dawm> yeah
Jun 22 00:09:07 <dawm> trying to pass an object as a string will do that
Jun 22 00:09:08 <JenP> any idea how to fix it?
Jun 22 00:09:23 <JenP> hmmm...kk i'll check my stuff
Jun 22 00:09:26 <JenP> thanks
Jun 22 00:09:41 <dawm> so if its title: var
Jun 22 00:09:49 <dawm> it prolly needs to be title: var.property
Jun 22 00:09:59 <JenP> kk
Jun 22 01:04:42 <sugardave> arg, client has changed his json format
Jun 22 01:04:47 * sugardave grumbles.
Jun 22 01:05:02 * JenP grumbles too
Jun 22 01:05:33 <sugardave> I think I have it working, but his test files are coming back 404
Jun 22 01:05:37 <sugardave> so, can't be 100%
Jun 22 01:06:25 <JenP> i have an object error that's driving me nuts...
Jun 22 01:06:48 <sugardave> need help or are you learning debugging today? :D
Jun 22 01:07:09 <JenP> i'll all up for help if you're willing...i've been debugging all day
Jun 22 01:07:45 <sugardave> hehe, what's the trouble?
Jun 22 01:08:08 <JenP> my menu has an Object Object error...
Jun 22 01:08:12 <JenP> it saids it's not set up
Jun 22 01:08:13 <JenP> http://pastebin.com/aUWBqGdb
Jun 22 01:08:28 <JenP> I've narrowed it down to line 145
Jun 22 01:09:07 <sugardave> oh noes, multi-stage app
Jun 22 01:09:27 <JenP> yeah
Jun 22 01:09:32 <JenP>  http://www.screencast.com/users/g33kgirl/folders/Jing/me dia/9f7c231d-ede5-4ed0-ab45-65b722b152cf
Jun 22 01:09:33 <discombobulate> in relation to the book question earlier
Jun 22 01:09:36 <sugardave> afraid I'm not going to be much help on it
Jun 22 01:09:40 <discombobulate> i have the frank z one and it's fairly decent
Jun 22 01:09:54 <discombobulate> not something i'd like to actually read through, but good reference
Jun 22 01:09:55 * sugardave looks for haeffb.
Jun 22 01:09:59 <JenP> http://www.screencast.com/users/g33kgirl/folders/Jing/media/9f7c231d-ede5-4ed0-ab45-65b722b152cf
Jun 22 01:10:03 <JenP> that's the error
Jun 22 01:10:48 <sugardave> so your stages are all working, is that an appMenu or a custom popupMenu?
Jun 22 01:10:49 <JenP> yeah i think i'm gonna have to get haeffb's help too
Jun 22 01:10:56 <JenP> everythings working
Jun 22 01:11:07 <JenP> that's just the default "edit" palm menu
Jun 22 01:11:32 <sugardave> okay, I'm guessing you overrode that?  let me look at your code some more
Jun 22 01:11:39 <JenP>  thanks
Jun 22 01:12:03 <JenP> warning: WidgetController: Could not instantiate widget '  ', since it has not been set up
Jun 22 01:12:07 <JenP> that's the warning
Jun 22 01:16:34 <rwhitby> hmm - dkirker doing a SIP app for Palm maybe?
Jun 22 01:16:44 <codeslaw> hallo
Jun 22 01:16:45 <rwhitby> http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/dkirker/4588117745/
Jun 22 01:17:12 <sugardave> SIP as in Asterisk endpoint?
Jun 22 01:17:28 <sugardave> JenP: I'm at a loss...I'm going to look at something and get back to you
Jun 22 01:17:38 <JenP> kk thanks
Jun 22 01:20:06 <BigBiff> hi JenP, rwhitby
Jun 22 01:20:14 <JenP> hi BigBiff
Jun 22 01:21:31 <BigBiff> ajax - xml, json only right?
Jun 22 01:21:58 <sugardave> JenP: What if you cheat?  Instead of Mojo.Menu.editItem, do {'label': 'Edit'}
Jun 22 01:22:15 <sugardave> you're not planning on using Edit are you?
Jun 22 01:22:21 <sugardave> I mean supporting copy/paste?
Jun 22 01:22:37 <JenP> where would i define that?
Jun 22 01:23:04 <JenP> up in the event.command switch?
Jun 22 01:23:08 <sugardave> you just use that object {'label': 'Edit'} instead of the text Mojo.Menu.editItem
Jun 22 01:23:19 <sugardave> line 27
Jun 22 01:23:44 <JenP> kk i'll try it
Jun 22 01:24:00 <sugardave> that SHOULD add the text to the top of the menu and hopefully show as inactive
Jun 22 01:24:01 <JenP> nope
Jun 22 01:24:07 <sugardave> lameness
Jun 22 01:25:53 <JenP> nope...no likey
Jun 22 01:33:19 <sugardave> sorry JenP, I have to get back to this other thing...hopefully, haeffb will drop in'
Jun 22 01:33:26 <JenP> no worries
Jun 22 01:33:33 <Tibfib> hallelujah! http://www.precentral.net/good-email-coming-webos-q3-2010
Jun 22 01:34:56 <EmmettLollis> can someone write an app to allow me to generate my app by thinking about what it should do?
Jun 22 01:36:07 <EmmettLollis> thats good news tibfib
Jun 22 01:38:46 <Tibfib> so I've got kind of a nooby question... Can someone explain how javascript services work?
Jun 22 01:39:08 <Tibfib> I couldn't find any good links by googling...
Jun 22 01:39:19 <sugardave> hmmm, why would my list widget scroll past its limit in one scene, but when re-pushing that same scene with new list contents, it behaves properly?
Jun 22 01:39:52 <Tibfib> sugardave: are your original list contents borked?
Jun 22 01:40:15 <sugardave> perhaps, looking into that now
Jun 22 01:40:36 <sugardave> just got the "we're not doing it that way" from the client, so I can simplify greatly
Jun 22 01:41:42 <sugardave> Tibfib: genius, it didn't like the way I was trying to append a new array of items to the list
Jun 22 01:42:32 <Tibfib> heh, well it made sense from the information you provided
Jun 22 01:44:04 <Tibfib> so can no one explain javascript services?
Jun 22 01:44:10 <sugardave> not I
Jun 22 01:44:53 <EmmettLollis> i didnt know you could do services in js
Jun 22 01:45:53 <Tibfib> Okay, I'll go even deeper... anyone want to explain services? ...
Jun 22 01:46:04 <sugardave> like a web service?
Jun 22 01:46:17 <codeslaw> ya, give us a context for the "service"
Jun 22 01:46:33 <Tibfib> I mean like file manager and package manager service
Jun 22 01:46:38 <Tibfib> and the upcoming javascript services
Jun 22 01:46:56 <codeslaw> ha
Jun 22 01:46:59 <codeslaw> ah*
Jun 22 01:47:25 <codeslaw> you basically just make calls to them, pass in call back functions, and expect things to happen
Jun 22 01:47:25 <sugardave> take it away codeslaw
Jun 22 01:47:52 <Tibfib> Oh really? That's it?
Jun 22 01:48:42 <Tibfib> So what purpose or help will javascript services bring?
Jun 22 01:48:53 <Tibfib> (to webOS)
Jun 22 01:48:59 <EmmettLollis> the programming community likes to invent and reinvent acronyms for things that already exist
Jun 22 01:49:24 <EmmettLollis> like a thin client is now a cloud
Jun 22 01:49:44 <sugardave> I thought cloud was the new umbrella term for SOA
Jun 22 01:50:05 <EmmettLollis> or a remotely hosted javascript routine is now called ajax
Jun 22 01:50:35 <EmmettLollis> i skipped over SOA... what is it
Jun 22 01:50:40 <EmmettLollis> cloud? lol
Jun 22 01:51:01 <sugardave> SOA = "service oriented architecure"
Jun 22 01:51:12 <sugardave> there's a protocol and everything
Jun 22 01:51:18 <sugardave> wanna guess what it's called?
Jun 22 01:51:31 <EmmettLollis> SOAP?
Jun 22 01:51:36 <sugardave> DING DING DING!
Jun 22 01:51:43 <EmmettLollis> the big dishwasher
Jun 22 01:52:00 <EmmettLollis> i want to re-invent something so i can name it
Jun 22 01:52:31 <EmmettLollis> maybe i'll re-invent search engines and give them a fancy name
Jun 22 01:52:47 <EmmettLollis> search engine xchange
Jun 22 01:52:50 <EmmettLollis> wait, maybe not
Jun 22 01:53:34 <sugardave> dkirker: too bad I don't have an asterisk box (or a machine to make one) or I'd bug you to test your SIP app :D
Jun 22 01:53:52 <dkirker> sugardave: lol
Jun 22 01:54:02 <sugardave> I used to have one :(
Jun 22 01:54:14 <sugardave> it was fun learning about that stuff
Jun 22 01:54:21 <dkirker> Indeed.
Jun 22 01:54:43 <dkirker> I'm still a ways out from producing something that is beta quality, anyway. :/
Jun 22 01:54:49 <sugardave> it would be super-bad-ass to have a SIP client that runs on the phone
Jun 22 01:55:11 <dkirker> Definitely. That's why I am working on one. :)
Jun 22 01:55:22 <EmmettLollis> i like to call my beta's v1.0
Jun 22 01:55:31 <sugardave> hehe, well, I will be looking for news when it's in beta
Jun 22 01:56:24 <dkirker> Hopefully soon.
Jun 22 01:56:55 <EmmettLollis> Oooh, VOIP?
Jun 22 01:57:49 <codeslaw> sorry Tibfib started make coffee
Jun 22 01:58:09 <dkirker> I'm am stuck at the moment with closing stages, and getting Mojo.Event.deactivate calls from the system. :/
Jun 22 01:58:12 <dkirker> EmmettLollis: Yup :)
Jun 22 01:58:34 <codeslaw> i dont actually know what the new services will bring, but we now have access to stuff like the camera, calendar, etc
Jun 22 01:58:47 <codeslaw> did dev day say we were getting web workers?
Jun 22 01:58:53 <EmmettLollis> i would completely go for a VOIP app... i have limited landline minutes and with my moms issues she has to constantly call my cell
Jun 22 01:59:32 <dkirker> The toughy is going to be battery life...
Jun 22 01:59:35 <Tibfib> http://www.precentral.net/webos-get-mic-camera-api-faster-services-plenty-more-fall
Jun 22 02:00:30 <haeffb> JenP: ping
Jun 22 02:00:43 <JenP> haeffb! pong!
Jun 22 02:01:12 * haeffb looking at your pastebin now
Jun 22 02:01:18 <JenP> thank you so much
Jun 22 02:03:17 <Tibfib> codeslaw: I guess I understand services... I just thought there was more "magic" to them...
Jun 22 02:03:56 <codeslaw> well, they usually wrap low level system services, which equates to more control of the hardware, which is pretty magical
Jun 22 02:05:00 <haeffb> JenP: why do you say line 145?
Jun 22 02:05:03 <sugardave> oooo, magic!
Jun 22 02:05:22 <sugardave> haeffb: yay, fix JenP!
Jun 22 02:05:28 <sugardave> her code, I mean
Jun 22 02:05:56 <haeffb> yeah, the other would be tough.
Jun 22 02:07:10 <Tibfib> Ah, there we go... More control of the hardware. There's the magic I was looking for
Jun 22 02:07:35 * JenP giggles
Jun 22 02:10:49 <Tibfib> thanks codeslaw and everyone else
Jun 22 02:10:54 <haeffb> JenP: try this for line 145: 	this.controller.createStageWithCallback(stageArgs, pushMainScene.bind(this), 'card');
Jun 22 02:10:58 <codeslaw> np
Jun 22 02:11:18 <JenP> haeffb I had that originally and still got the error
Jun 22 02:11:44 <haeffb> the error. AND the [object Object] in the menu? or just the error?
Jun 22 02:11:58 <JenP> both
Jun 22 02:14:05 <haeffb> do you modify App.MenuModel anywhere else?
Jun 22 02:14:17 <JenP> no
Jun 22 02:14:50 <JenP> but it occurs only after you enable the toggle.
Jun 22 02:14:52 <haeffb> pastebin the setup() for the scene...
Jun 22 02:14:56 <haeffb> oh?
Jun 22 02:15:07 <JenP> yeah on first install it's fine
Jun 22 02:15:11 <JenP> get edit and all
Jun 22 02:15:19 <JenP> after you enable the toggle it breaks
Jun 22 02:16:08 * haeffb grumbles
Jun 22 02:16:43 <JenP> http://pastebin.com/3Hh2V4iu
Jun 22 02:16:50 <JenP> this is the scene that has the toggle in it
Jun 22 02:19:03 <haeffb> & the menu is broken there?
Jun 22 02:21:14 <JenP> menu breaks everywhere after you enable the toggle
Jun 22 02:21:46 <JenP> hold on i'
Jun 22 02:21:50 <JenP> ll send app to you
Jun 22 02:24:17 <JenP> it's on its way
Jun 22 02:27:25 <haeffb> there better be some nice pics in that 10MB... :)
Jun 22 02:28:04 <EmmettLollis> is it common practice to have a save and cancel button on a webos app?
Jun 22 02:28:17 * haeffb has fiber to the house. outside of the house. hasn't made it inside yet.
Jun 22 02:28:28 <haeffb> EmmettLollis: no
Jun 22 02:28:42 <haeffb> save button is frowned upon
Jun 22 02:28:59 <EmmettLollis> what would be a standard alternate way of doing it?
Jun 22 02:29:11 <haeffb> always save
Jun 22 02:29:22 <haeffb> what are you saving?
Jun 22 02:29:24 <JenP> hehehe..i do not have anything to do with the images
Jun 22 02:29:25 <EmmettLollis> so pretty much save when the data is entered?
Jun 22 02:29:30 <haeffb> yep
Jun 22 02:29:50 <EmmettLollis> i have a couple of databases to track weight/calories/carbs etc
Jun 22 02:30:00 <haeffb> if is something that saving a change to could be a major hassle.... then you might need an alternate method.
Jun 22 02:30:11 <haeffb> like a word document editor...
Jun 22 02:30:36 <EmmettLollis> its pretty light weight as far as a db goes
Jun 22 02:31:14 <EmmettLollis> i already implemented a save/cancel then got to thinking i haven't seen that on webos apps
Jun 22 02:31:44 <EmmettLollis> i guess i can just validate/save as soon as a field is modified
Jun 22 02:32:59 <haeffb> that is the recommended method. Also: if the user flicks your app closed from the edit scene...a db commit from the scene's deactivate() will likely not finish before the app closes.
Jun 22 02:33:17 <EmmettLollis> ouch
Jun 22 02:33:37 <EmmettLollis> well i guess if they're flicking it off the screen they dont care about saving anyway
Jun 22 02:34:15 <EmmettLollis> i appreciate the info
Jun 22 02:34:49 <haeffb> yes, they do. They get upset if their data isn't saved...
Jun 22 02:34:55 <HattCzech> anyone know how to get around "The ipk file you uploaded does not contain a unique file name when compared against all other ipk file names in our system. Please re-package your app." when submitted a rejected app?
Jun 22 02:35:09 <haeffb> repackage your app... ?
Jun 22 02:35:10 <HattCzech> (without re-versioning)
Jun 22 02:36:25 <EmmettLollis> hmm, so if i can't save when they flick it off the screen and they will be upset that it isn't saved.. how could i deal with that?
Jun 22 02:39:09 <dawm> HattCzech, are you trying to create a new submission from one that was rejected? or resubmitting the rejected
Jun 22 02:39:21 <HattCzech> resubmitting rejected
Jun 22 02:39:25 <HattCzech> i can't delete it, either
Jun 22 02:39:32 <dawm> sounds like another dev portal bug
Jun 22 02:39:34 <dawm> check the forums
Jun 22 02:40:14 <dawm> https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewforum.php?f=90
Jun 22 02:40:52 <haeffb> EmmettLollis: save anytime data is changed.
Jun 22 02:43:46 <dawm> welp just bought 3 c++ books (1 or 2 that chuq recommended) lets see how quickly i can pick it up ;p
Jun 22 02:44:31 <EmmettLollis> sounds good
Jun 22 02:44:33 <EmmettLollis> thanks
Jun 22 02:46:16 <haeffb> JenP: why do I see three edit menus?
Jun 22 02:46:34 <JenP> um........my cat made me do it?
Jun 22 02:46:39 <dawm> lolz
Jun 22 02:46:45 <JenP> she's REALLY bossy
Jun 22 02:50:15 <sugardave> soooo...ProgressBar widget.  I don't want it to show until I tap a button.  Howerver, if I .hide() the div (after widget setup) and then .show() it when I'm ready to use (before updating the model), it won't draw the progress
Jun 22 02:50:25 <sugardave> if I don't .hide()/.show() it is working
Jun 22 02:50:36 <sugardave> any hints or alternate strategies?
Jun 22 02:51:03 <dawm> move it?
Jun 22 02:51:18 <haeffb> JenP: some of your images are 640x910 and 1MB in size...
Jun 22 02:51:22 <sugardave> brilliant, that will probably work
Jun 22 02:51:33 <JenP> wow i didn't check that
Jun 22 02:51:40 <JenP> i'll look at what he gave me
Jun 22 02:52:10 <dawm> dave you could also use the old fashion way and just change its CSS
Jun 22 02:52:38 <sugardave> visibility?
Jun 22 02:52:48 <dawm> display: none
Jun 22 02:53:02 <sugardave> oh, okay, let me look at that
Jun 22 02:53:14 <dawm> .style.display = 'none';
Jun 22 02:53:39 <dawm> and to bring it back (im assuming its a div) .style.display = 'block';
Jun 22 02:53:54 <sugardave> yeah, okay, will try that...thanks!
Jun 22 02:55:05 <EmmettLollis> is it acceptable to throw an error box if the user enters invalid data... like text in a numeric field?
Jun 22 02:55:18 <dawm> sure why not?
Jun 22 02:55:48 <EmmettLollis> idk, just trying to cover my bases
Jun 22 02:56:03 <sugardave> dawm: future note, display shows the same failure behavior as .hide()/.show()
Jun 22 02:56:03 <haeffb> better to just not allow text in a numeric field.
Jun 22 02:56:12 <JenP> agreed
Jun 22 02:56:20 <dawm> sugardave, it prolly does the same thing ;p
Jun 22 02:56:24 <sugardave> heh
Jun 22 02:56:25 <dawm> i just wasnt sure
Jun 22 02:56:26 <EmmettLollis> haeffb: how can i not allow it?
Jun 22 02:56:30 <sugardave> will try moving it on/off screen
Jun 22 02:57:02 <HattCzech> anyone here tried to make a service in c++? or should i ask in webos-internals?
Jun 22 02:57:10 <HattCzech> (well, c works also)
Jun 22 02:57:15 <dawm> not yet
Jun 22 02:57:15 <haeffb> in attrs for a textfield: charsAllow: this.onlyNum.bind(this),
Jun 22 02:57:39 <EmmettLollis> awesome, didn't know i could do that.. you rock
Jun 22 02:57:42 <dawm> just bought 'Sams Teach Yourself C++ in One Hour a Day','Beginning C++ Through Game Programming', and 'Programming Linux Games'
Jun 22 02:58:16 <EmmettLollis> i have Secret Tricks of the Game Programming GURUs... love that book
Jun 22 02:58:21 <haeffb> http://pastebin.com/17G4xK6A
Jun 22 02:58:38 <HattCzech> nice, dawm, you'll be a pro in no time
Jun 22 02:58:42 <haeffb> EmmettLollis: you have to have the stuff in pastbin as well.
Jun 22 02:59:17 <EmmettLollis> awesome
Jun 22 02:59:20 <dawm> gnite all
Jun 22 02:59:24 <HattCzech> night
Jun 22 02:59:25 <EmmettLollis> nite dawn
Jun 22 02:59:33 <dawm> -n +m
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 22 02:59:56 2010