**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 06 02:59:58 2010
Jul 06 03:00:42 <dawm> http://twitpic.com/22tq8q
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 06 08:26:14 2010
Jul 06 08:29:06 <m55> is there a way to get a javascript app to open zip files?
Jul 06 08:29:25 <m55> mixed PDK & javascript apps can't be distributed, so that is out of the window
Jul 06 10:50:27 <SimpsonTP> any known issues with lates webos release and various patches ??
Jul 06 15:26:29 <deliciousmorsel> haha just got a great tech support email
Jul 06 15:26:47 <deliciousmorsel> user wanted to know if my app did something that it did not… I told him it currently doesn't do that
Jul 06 15:27:06 <deliciousmorsel> he responded with "This phone is starting to suck more and more everyday..thanks for the help!"
Jul 06 15:27:57 <SimpsonTP> RUTC
Jul 06 15:30:49 <ProfJonathan> Good morning. Quick crucial technical q: given that my Pre's USB partition is flaky, if I completely reformat it as FAT32 under Windows, then webOS Doctor the Pre, will bad things happen?
Jul 06 15:31:15 <deliciousmorsel> have you tried just doctoring it?
Jul 06 15:32:07 <ProfJonathan> DeliciousMorsel: Howdy, Dennis! Only about 20 times. It works sometimes, doesn't others, and I keep getting a locked file system (can't even take photos)....
Jul 06 15:32:39 <deliciousmorsel> i dont think reformatting it via windows will do that much for you since that partition is a virtual one
Jul 06 15:32:47 <deliciousmorsel> when mounted
Jul 06 15:33:03 <ProfJonathan> DeliciousMorsel: What I really want is to reimage the whole thing from scratch, which current versions of webOS Doctor don't do. At the least, though, I want to fully clear the USB partition of anything that might be screwing up the Pre.
Jul 06 15:33:31 <ProfJonathan> DeliciousMorsel: None of the built-in methods to clear USB have worked. That's why I'm reaching for reformatting under Windows, as a desperation play.
Jul 06 15:33:42 <deliciousmorsel> i dont see an issue with trying that
Jul 06 15:34:03 <deliciousmorsel> cause you can always pop out hte battery and then reboot while holding up volume (or was it down)
Jul 06 15:34:33 <ProfJonathan> DeliciousMorsel: I don't assume it will fix the problem; I just wanted to not hose it. (And I've done the volume up thing about 20 times too!) Thanks! Also, I'm loving Twee2, although I'd really appreciate a gesture shortcut to switch among accounts. Stellar job overall, though.
Jul 06 15:34:37 <deliciousmorsel> i wonder if the palm pre has a dfu mode
Jul 06 15:34:53 <deliciousmorsel> what would hte proper shortcut be?
Jul 06 15:35:09 <deliciousmorsel> like what would you expect to do, to have it change?
Jul 06 15:35:13 <deliciousmorsel> like hit the S key?
Jul 06 15:35:18 <deliciousmorsel> or something like that?
Jul 06 15:35:21 <deliciousmorsel> or a swipe gesture?
Jul 06 15:36:05 <ProfJonathan> DeliciousMorsel: I'd say a swipe gesture, or even a tap+swipe if no swipes are available.
Jul 06 15:36:26 <deliciousmorsel> would you want it to be a single handed thing?
Jul 06 15:36:32 <ProfJonathan> OK, formatting under way. Will Doctor after that, and see if it's finally fixed.
Jul 06 15:36:33 <deliciousmorsel> cause i could do like command swipe forward
Jul 06 15:36:44 <deliciousmorsel> orange + swipe forward
Jul 06 15:37:34 <sugardave> ah, yes...repeat business
Jul 06 15:37:36 <sugardave> gotta love it
Jul 06 15:37:38 <ProfJonathan> deliciousmorsel: Not sure. One-handed would be ideal, or even adding a button on the screen, but in a pinch, key+swipe is still faster than tapping the dropdown menu, selecting the feature and then selecting the other account. It would also be cool to have an option to launch all accounts at Twee startup.
Jul 06 15:38:05 <deliciousmorsel> so launch all the accounts new cards right?
Jul 06 15:38:12 <deliciousmorsel> hmmm that wouldn't be hard at all
Jul 06 15:38:27 <deliciousmorsel> im trying to think of some gesture to switch
Jul 06 15:38:34 <deliciousmorsel> that would be unique enough
Jul 06 15:39:23 <ProfJonathan> deliciousmorsel: Yep; I track two main accounts and use two others occasionally. I have a Pre Plus which (when it works) has plenty of RAM to run multiple cards. Ideally, I could designate only two to launch on startup, but any additional customization of the experience would be great.
Jul 06 15:40:01 <ProfJonathan> deliciousmorsel: If I could designate two to launch automatically on startup, I wouldn't need a separate gesture, just the card swipe.
Jul 06 15:40:40 <ProfJonathan> deliciousmorsel: Think about the way TweetDeck allows a choice of what columns to open at startup.
Jul 06 15:40:52 <deliciousmorsel> ahhh ok
Jul 06 15:41:09 <deliciousmorsel> i was going to add hold an account to open in a card
Jul 06 15:41:12 <deliciousmorsel> so you could tap and hold one
Jul 06 15:41:18 <deliciousmorsel> then tap and hold another
Jul 06 15:42:16 <ProfJonathan> DM: Also works. It seems there used to be that ability in Twee1, with the standalone account card.
Jul 06 15:51:20 <maik> woo, 232 downloads as of yesterday
Jul 06 15:51:39 <maik> at least, according to myappbox.com
Jul 06 16:16:02 <sugardave> webOS-info: chuqui
Jul 06 16:16:02 <webOS-info> LOOK A PUPPY!!
Jul 06 16:17:20 <chuqui> hey. happy tuesday, all
Jul 06 16:18:19 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: sugardave
Jul 06 16:18:19 <webOS-info> sugardave is an enigma
Jul 06 16:18:36 <sugardave> webOS-info: haeffb
Jul 06 16:18:36 <webOS-info> well, haeffb is kickin' it old-school
Jul 06 16:18:40 <sugardave> webOS-info: haeffb
Jul 06 16:18:40 <webOS-info> i guess haeffb is your arch-foe
Jul 06 16:18:44 <sugardave> rawr
Jul 06 16:18:49 <haeffb-pre> lol
Jul 06 16:18:57 <dkirker> webOS-info: dkirker
Jul 06 16:18:57 <webOS-info> dkirker: sorry...
Jul 06 16:19:00 <dkirker> lol
Jul 06 16:19:30 <halfhalo> webOS-info: halfhalo
Jul 06 16:19:30 <webOS-info> i heard halfhalo was an insane homicidal programmer or a creeper. watch out
Jul 06 16:19:36 <halfhalo> lol
Jul 06 16:19:50 <halfhalo> I can live with that
Jul 06 16:20:11 <dkirker> haha
Jul 06 16:20:37 <dkirker> It's alright. dkirker is crazy and just plain weird.
Jul 06 16:23:59 <sugardave> webOS-info: dkirker
Jul 06 16:23:59 <webOS-info> somebody said dkirker was crazy and just plain weird
Jul 06 16:25:14 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: lmgtfy is go to http://www.google.com
Jul 06 16:25:14 <webOS-info> OK, haeffb-pre.
Jul 06 16:26:28 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: palmdev is http://developer.palm.com
Jul 06 16:26:28 <webOS-info> OK, haeffb-pre.
Jul 06 16:27:46 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: 101 is http://www.webos101.com
Jul 06 16:27:46 <webOS-info> OK, haeffb-pre.
Jul 06 16:28:00 <dkirker> What?! Crazy?! Me?!
Jul 06 16:28:03 <dkirker> nah ;)
Jul 06 16:28:51 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: crazy is dkirker
Jul 06 16:28:52 <webOS-info> OK, haeffb-pre.
Jul 06 16:29:09 <dkirker> webOS-info: dkirker
Jul 06 16:29:09 <webOS-info> rumour has it dkirker is crazy and just plain weird
Jul 06 16:29:15 <dkirker> LOL
Jul 06 16:29:31 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: crazy,
Jul 06 16:29:31 <webOS-info> haeffb-pre: what?
Jul 06 16:29:46 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: crazy
Jul 06 16:29:46 <webOS-info> crazy is dkirker
Jul 06 16:30:58 <sugardave> webOS-info: naplunch
Jul 06 16:30:58 * webOS-info dims the lights and fluffs the pillows.
Jul 06 16:31:15 <dkirker> hehe
Jul 06 16:31:28 <dkirker> alright. work time. See y'all later!
Jul 06 16:31:32 <sugardave> cya
Jul 06 16:31:45 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: 101
Jul 06 16:31:45 <webOS-info> i heard 101 was http://www.webos101.com
Jul 06 16:32:03 <sugardave> webOS-info: ares
Jul 06 16:32:03 <webOS-info> sugardave: huh?
Jul 06 16:32:06 <sugardave> awww
Jul 06 16:32:45 <sugardave> webOS-info: Ares
Jul 06 16:32:45 * webOS-info points at sugardave and laughs.
Jul 06 16:32:49 <sugardave> there we go
Jul 06 16:40:06 <sugardave> webOS-info: mojo database
Jul 06 16:40:06 <webOS-info> Good information about Mojo Storage databases can be found at http://webos101.com/Mojo_Storage_Database and http://webos101.com/Getting_JSON_From_An_External_MySQL_Database
Jul 06 16:54:07 <halfhalo_pre> pewpew pewpew
Jul 06 17:03:12 <halfhalo_pre> pewpew pewpew!
Jul 06 17:04:33 <halfhalo_pre> webOS-info: gun is pewpew pewpew
Jul 06 17:04:33 <webOS-info> OK, halfhalo_pre.
Jul 06 17:04:47 <halfhalo_pre> webOS-info: gun
Jul 06 17:04:47 <webOS-info> hmmm... gun is pewpew pewpew
Jul 06 17:08:46 <kesne> Hey all!
Jul 06 17:08:50 <kesne> webos-info?
Jul 06 17:08:50 <webOS-info> kesne?
Jul 06 17:08:59 <kesne> webos-info: kesne?
Jul 06 17:08:59 <webOS-info> it has been said that kesne is the official channel whipping boy
Jul 06 17:10:31 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: You around?  Have a quick question:  Uploading release version of webOSroundup app and it won't let me update the application title since I forgot to put 'beta' in the title before.
Jul 06 17:10:44 <Roy-Pre101> I changed the beta's title.  How long do I have to wait before it will release the name?
Jul 06 17:11:00 <halfhalo_pre> why is it raining...
Jul 06 17:13:29 <haeffb-pre> relative humidity is higher than the atmosphere can handle
Jul 06 17:13:43 <dkirker> rain is amazing!!
Jul 06 17:13:51 <appamajig> lol I was typing up a similar answer...
Jul 06 17:14:50 <kesne> Who is that guy I was talking to yesterday
Jul 06 17:14:50 <HattCzech_work> afternoon
Jul 06 17:15:42 <haeffb-pre> hello
Jul 06 17:15:54 <dkirker> kesne: what were you talking to him about?
Jul 06 17:16:07 <dkirker> 'afternoon HattCzech_work
Jul 06 17:16:07 <kesne> HattCzech_work: What rank did you end on?
Jul 06 17:16:11 <haeffb-pre> wirc thinks it's 12:15 AM
Jul 06 17:16:19 <kesne> dkirker: he wanted to be my friend.
Jul 06 17:16:26 <dkirker> ah
Jul 06 17:16:56 <haeffb-pre> webOS-info: Anivrom
Jul 06 17:16:56 <webOS-info> haeffb-pre: huh?
Jul 06 17:17:04 <HattCzech_work> kesne: 217 before the site was changed
Jul 06 17:17:07 <appamajig> man, is there any way to show less information when I use Mojo.Log ? The lines are so long, it's distracting from the actual log...
Jul 06 17:17:18 <HattCzech_work> hopefully we will get some sort of confirmation soon
Jul 06 17:17:28 <HattCzech_work> appamajig: yes
Jul 06 17:17:39 <HattCzech_work> how do you watch it?
Jul 06 17:17:55 <kesne> HattCzech_work: that's a winning rank, right?
Jul 06 17:18:07 <HattCzech_work> kesne: yes it is :)
Jul 06 17:18:12 <appamajig> I am using ssh and log com.blah
Jul 06 17:18:16 <chuqui> roy-pre101 hey, I'm here. what's up?
Jul 06 17:18:32 <HattCzech_work> appamajig: try this: tail -f /var/log/messages | sed 's/^.\+ <appname>: \(.\+\), palmInit\(.\+\)/\1/'
Jul 06 17:18:33 <appamajig> is there other ways? (I'm just using the emulator)
Jul 06 17:18:36 <appamajig> ah, cool
Jul 06 17:18:38 <appamajig> thanks
Jul 06 17:18:42 <HattCzech_work> np
Jul 06 17:18:51 <HattCzech_work> should make it easier to read
Jul 06 17:19:12 <kesne> HattCzech_work: BECAUSE OF ME, don't forget it.
Jul 06 17:19:47 <HattCzech_work> heh, i won't
Jul 06 17:21:06 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: You around?  Have a quick question:  Uploading release version of webOSroundup app and it won't let me update the application title since I forgot to put 'beta' in the title before.
Jul 06 17:21:07 <Roy-Pre101> I changed the beta's title.  How long do I have to wait before it will release the name?
Jul 06 17:21:27 <Roy-Pre101> (the beta was in the beta feed)
Jul 06 17:23:44 <appamajig> HattCzech: that shows it exactly the same way (I did change <appname> to <myapp>
Jul 06 17:28:24 <haeffb-pre> appamajig: use palm-log ?
Jul 06 17:29:23 <appamajig> so I use the tail -f command, and then when I want to see the log I use palm-log in a commandprompt?
Jul 06 17:29:36 <appamajig> palm-log is nicely formatted
Jul 06 17:32:47 <appamajig> aha, I got it... thanks HattCzech
Jul 06 17:52:36 <codeslaw> oh hai
Jul 06 17:52:47 <codeslaw> oh hai
Jul 06 17:55:13 <HattCzech_work> appamajig: yeah, it's the com.vendor.appid style... glad it works
Jul 06 17:55:55 <oilsworkn> eh?
Jul 06 17:58:17 <dkirker> hi codeslaw
Jul 06 17:58:31 <codeslaw> hey
Jul 06 18:01:11 <HattCzech_work> hey codeslaw
Jul 06 18:01:43 <codeslaw> hiyooo
Jul 06 18:03:01 * oilsworkn suddenly wants some coleslaw
Jul 06 18:03:09 <codeslaw> this happens a lot
Jul 06 18:03:25 <bougyman> what to check when my preware just hangs on a feed update?
Jul 06 18:03:36 <bougyman> i haven't been able to update feeds in like a month.
Jul 06 18:03:45 <bougyman> i kind of ignored it, but now i'm getting worried.
Jul 06 18:03:47 <codeslaw> turn off individual feeds
Jul 06 18:03:51 <oilsworkn> the servers took a crap over the weekend
Jul 06 18:03:58 <bougyman> this has been for a long time.
Jul 06 18:03:59 <codeslaw> until you find the one that is broken
Jul 06 18:04:03 <bougyman> and it's Palm-catalog failing.
Jul 06 18:04:08 <oilsworkn> disable that feed
Jul 06 18:04:16 <bougyman> isn't that the main one?
Jul 06 18:04:20 <oilsworkn> (new releases default to it off)
Jul 06 18:04:21 <oilsworkn> no
Jul 06 18:04:26 <oilsworkn> palm-catalog is the catalog apps
Jul 06 18:04:32 <bougyman> crap now i'm frozen.
Jul 06 18:04:38 <oilsworkn> precentral/webos-internals/webos-patches are the main ones
Jul 06 18:04:42 <oilsworkn> start preware
Jul 06 18:04:49 <oilsworkn> let it do its thing and die
Jul 06 18:04:52 <bougyman> have to wait for the reboot now.
Jul 06 18:04:52 <oilsworkn> then go to manage feeds
Jul 06 18:04:54 <oilsworkn> and flip it off
Jul 06 18:05:04 <bougyman> it won't die, i don't have the update-feeds-on-start thing
Jul 06 18:05:13 <bougyman> i just clicked update-feeds and ruined it :(
Jul 06 18:05:20 <bougyman> after reboot i'll disable that one.
Jul 06 18:05:40 <bougyman> ah it was just a luna restart, i'm back.
Jul 06 18:05:44 <oilsworkn> yeah, but if its updating, the feed list wont show up
Jul 06 18:06:12 <bougyman> i'm in manage feeds now.
Jul 06 18:06:15 <bougyman> and its empty.
Jul 06 18:08:57 <halfhalo_pre> who broke the servers this time?
Jul 06 18:10:39 <oilsworkn> yeah
Jul 06 18:10:52 <oilsworkn> manage feeds needs hte service to be idle to be able to request the feed list
Jul 06 18:18:44 <dkirker> hi MetaView
Jul 06 18:18:51 <MetaView> hi dkirker
Jul 06 18:18:52 <dkirker> wb rwhitby
Jul 06 18:19:03 <dkirker> MetaView: How's the weather?
Jul 06 18:19:15 <MetaView> warm, not too hot today
Jul 06 18:19:31 <dkirker> nice. It is al nice cosy and overcast here :)
Jul 06 18:19:57 <dkirker> *cozy
Jul 06 18:20:14 <MetaView> can't complain about the summer so far
Jul 06 18:20:16 <MetaView> :)
Jul 06 18:21:57 <dkirker> I'm being spoiled so far :)
Jul 06 18:28:03 <sugardave> heh, my client sent me an email: "Do you think you could write the app in the PDK C++ language...I just saw the competition."
Jul 06 18:28:06 <sugardave> Um.....no
Jul 06 18:28:08 <EmmettLollis> anyone know where i can find a good LCD looking font?
Jul 06 18:28:19 <EmmettLollis> lol sugardave
Jul 06 18:28:36 <EmmettLollis> yeah, let me get right to rewriting your app lol
Jul 06 18:28:53 <sugardave> but first, let me learn C and C++
Jul 06 18:29:03 <sugardave> not happening for this one, I'm afraid :D
Jul 06 18:29:18 <EmmettLollis> c/c++ isn't bad since you know javascript
Jul 06 18:29:30 <sugardave> sure sure
Jul 06 18:29:35 <sugardave> easy as pie
Jul 06 18:29:41 <sugardave> webOS-info: pie
Jul 06 18:29:41 * webOS-info sings she's my cherry pie!
Jul 06 18:29:51 <EmmettLollis> of course i had a hard time getting a handle on js so
Jul 06 18:30:10 <EmmettLollis> its pretty much the same in most respects
Jul 06 18:30:17 <oilsworkn> webos-info?
Jul 06 18:30:17 <webOS-info> oilsworkn?
Jul 06 18:30:28 <sugardave> webOS-info: 101
Jul 06 18:30:28 <webOS-info> 101 is http://www.webos101.com
Jul 06 18:30:34 <EmmettLollis> does the PDK work with ms visual studio?
Jul 06 18:30:45 <sugardave> "I don't care."
Jul 06 18:30:46 <oilsworkn> whos bot?
Jul 06 18:30:57 <sugardave> discombobulate brought the bot
Jul 06 18:33:17 <HattCzech_work> sugardave: was this for the project you just finished?
Jul 06 18:33:30 <dkirker> sugardave: just watch out for memory pointers in C/C++ ;)
Jul 06 18:33:33 <sugardave> repeat work for the same client, new project
Jul 06 18:33:44 <HattCzech_work> ahhh ok
Jul 06 18:33:47 <sugardave> videos this time
Jul 06 18:33:59 <HattCzech_work> you should just reply to the e-mail with "Heh, no."
Jul 06 18:34:01 <sugardave> dkirker: I remember those from Pascal :D
Jul 06 18:34:08 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: that's basically what I did
Jul 06 18:34:09 <dkirker> hehe
Jul 06 18:34:19 <HattCzech_work> hehehe
Jul 06 18:34:37 <HattCzech_work> even with C as my primary language, i haven't done much with the PDK side
Jul 06 18:34:41 <sugardave> HattCzech_work: ever make it to El Caribe?
Jul 06 18:34:47 <HattCzech_work> not yet
Jul 06 18:34:50 <sugardave> doh
Jul 06 18:34:54 <HattCzech_work> but i will... oh yes, i will
Jul 06 18:35:12 <HattCzech_work> probably later this week
Jul 06 18:35:14 <EmmettLollis> heh, theres a font names wellbutrin
Jul 06 18:35:45 <sugardave> stupid paypal...why no oauth?
Jul 06 18:35:52 <sugardave> I was getting all excited
Jul 06 18:36:32 <EmmettLollis> just write an app that intercepts the web pages and parses the html
Jul 06 18:36:55 <EmmettLollis> it will work until they change it :)
Jul 06 18:37:06 <sugardave> EmmettLollis: when it's time, I will do something like that...they have an "oauth-like" process that I will look at
Jul 06 18:37:16 <EmmettLollis> oh cool
Jul 06 18:38:05 <EmmettLollis> how about an app that automatically buys random things off ebay
Jul 06 18:38:25 <sugardave> Mobile Hoarding
Jul 06 18:38:30 <EmmettLollis> hell yeah
Jul 06 18:38:48 <EmmettLollis> call it "the lazy hoarder"
Jul 06 18:39:16 <sugardave> hmm, a bid watcher might not be a bad app idea
Jul 06 18:39:26 <EmmettLollis> definately
Jul 06 18:39:27 <sugardave> I'm busy, though :D
Jul 06 18:40:22 <sugardave> the lamest part of this new project is I have to build the content menu from a plist XML file...some apple crap
Jul 06 18:40:34 <sugardave> and it is WORTHLESS as a hierarchical storage format
Jul 06 18:40:37 <oilsworkn> that buys one thing for a dollar a day?
Jul 06 18:40:40 <sugardave> like, worse than text
Jul 06 18:41:19 <oilsworkn> http://xkcd.com/576/
Jul 06 18:42:00 <sugardave> haha
Jul 06 18:45:07 <sugardave> webOS-info: oil
Jul 06 18:45:07 <webOS-info> well, oil is spewing in the Gulf of Mexico
Jul 06 18:45:10 <sugardave> webOS-info: oil
Jul 06 18:45:10 <webOS-info> oil is spewing in the Gulf of Mexico
Jul 06 18:45:12 <sugardave> webOS-info: oil
Jul 06 18:45:12 <webOS-info> oil is spewing in the Gulf of Mexico
Jul 06 18:45:13 <sugardave> webOS-info: oil
Jul 06 18:45:13 <webOS-info> oil is working
Jul 06 18:45:16 <sugardave> there
Jul 06 18:46:24 <oilsworkn> :/
Jul 06 18:47:59 <EmmettLollis> i need to design an icon for my app
Jul 06 18:48:32 <oilsworkn> you should use a crescent moon icon
Jul 06 18:48:34 <oilsworkn> xD
Jul 06 18:48:56 <pandora--> lol no
Jul 06 18:48:58 <EmmettLollis> yeah, i've been using that one
Jul 06 18:49:01 <EmmettLollis> lol
Jul 06 18:49:14 <sugardave> I use that for all my apps
Jul 06 18:49:19 <EmmettLollis> actually i did a pretty cool icon but it's too close to my competition
Jul 06 18:49:47 <oilsworkn> ohh, competition?
Jul 06 18:50:06 <sugardave> step 1: find app idea with no competition....
Jul 06 18:50:43 <EmmettLollis> well, i only have like 3 apps in my ballpark
Jul 06 18:50:50 <EmmettLollis> and its a popular market
Jul 06 18:50:57 <oilsworkn> fartapp?
Jul 06 18:51:03 <EmmettLollis> lol
Jul 06 18:51:13 <oilsworkn> no, i know, tip calculator?
Jul 06 18:51:28 <sugardave> hehe
Jul 06 18:51:46 <EmmettLollis> my fart app uses the hidden smell api built into the pre
Jul 06 18:52:12 <sugardave> twipper has not been seeing any action since I added tweet support to it :(
Jul 06 18:52:16 * oilsworkn makes soundboard app and releases 20+ different versions with different sounds
Jul 06 18:52:32 <oilsworkn> ohh, _wirc
Jul 06 18:52:54 <EmmettLollis> i know, i should write a book app and release 1000 titles
Jul 06 18:53:03 <oilsworkn> lol
Jul 06 18:53:05 <sugardave> webOS-info: foe
Jul 06 18:53:06 <webOS-info> FOE!
Jul 06 18:53:09 <oilsworkn> or a "famous quotes" app?
Jul 06 18:53:21 * oilsworkn has like 30 of those apps
Jul 06 18:54:38 <dohtem> Good morning!
Jul 06 18:55:00 <pandora--> sugardave: heh yeah yalm has no competition right now
Jul 06 18:55:01 <sugardave> why not write a freaking reader and sell it for $20 and then let them download books?  Or, if you REALLY think the books are worth something, make the reader free and then in-app purchase for the titles
Jul 06 18:55:11 <pandora--> sugardave: also almost no demand... oops.
Jul 06 18:55:16 <sugardave> heh
Jul 06 18:55:20 <sugardave> that's a problem
Jul 06 18:55:29 <pandora--> sugardave: but another developer is releasing a yammer app next week i think
Jul 06 18:55:39 <sugardave> it's not me, I swear
Jul 06 18:55:49 <discombobulate> hrm
Jul 06 18:55:57 <pandora--> aeidataworks whoeever they are
Jul 06 18:56:08 <pandora--> though, i think i still have an edge on their features
Jul 06 18:56:23 <pandora--> and existing userbase
Jul 06 18:56:24 <sugardave> and get to say
Jul 06 18:56:39 <sugardave> "The original Yammer client for webOS.  Accept no substitute!"
Jul 06 18:56:44 <discombobulate> webOS-info status?
Jul 06 18:56:44 <webOS-info> Since Mon Jul  5 18:47:48 2010, there have been 84 modifications and 158 questions.  I have been awake for 20 hours, 8 minutes, 56 seconds this session, and currently reference 58 factoids. Addressing is in require mode.
Jul 06 18:56:50 <pandora--> sugardave: yup!
Jul 06 18:57:00 <pandora--> sugardave: it kind of already says that in the description
Jul 06 18:57:13 <sugardave> right on
Jul 06 18:57:17 <sugardave> I didn't read it
Jul 06 18:57:20 <sugardave> :D
Jul 06 18:57:41 <pandora--> I'm actually the first/only 3rd party phone developer for yammer of any platform
Jul 06 18:57:43 <pandora--> w00t
Jul 06 18:57:48 <sugardave> nice
Jul 06 18:58:25 <pandora--> Yammer does their own iphone/android/blackberry/windowsmobile versions, but no other full service phone apps other than Yalm :D
Jul 06 18:58:28 <sugardave> I'm hoping to be first to webOS at least with this other deal I"m playing with (all my oauth testing the last few days)
Jul 06 18:58:41 <pandora--> ahh
Jul 06 18:59:00 <sugardave> right now streamlining my functions and such
Jul 06 18:59:06 <sugardave> then I can make an ugly app
Jul 06 18:59:08 <sugardave> :D
Jul 06 19:02:15 <pandora--> i fucking hate reviewers sometimes
Jul 06 19:02:28 <sugardave> doc would say all the time
Jul 06 19:02:56 <pandora--> i just got 0 stars because "TuneWiki: LyricsSearch" was not as good as "Music Remix"
Jul 06 19:03:02 <pandora--> says: "I hate it. Personally I like music remix better. Eff this gay $1 app music remix is free too!"
Jul 06 19:03:30 <pandora--> TuneWiki LyricsSearch isn't a MUSIC PLAYER asshole.  It doesn't claim to be you dick reviewer
Jul 06 19:03:42 <pandora--> 0 stars because you're a RETARD
Jul 06 19:03:46 <pandora--> damnit
Jul 06 19:04:15 <sugardave> pandora--: chuqui has his email in a bag of holding, so you can get another one to him :D
Jul 06 19:04:44 <chuqui> I am going to be doing a moderation run on the app reviews this week. Already asked for the dat.
Jul 06 19:04:46 <chuqui> data.
Jul 06 19:05:00 <chuqui> you will ALL OWE ME A DONUT for doing this.
Jul 06 19:05:09 <sugardave> webOS-info: chuqui
Jul 06 19:05:09 <webOS-info> LOOK A PUPPY!!
Jul 06 19:05:36 <chuqui> god, I really over-used that puppy thing. I'll never live it down now
Jul 06 19:05:41 <sugardave> heh
Jul 06 19:05:41 <pandora--> chuqui: I will personally bring you a donut
Jul 06 19:05:58 <halfhalo_class> Doitdoitdoit
Jul 06 19:06:11 <pandora--> i had a great 4.x rating until 2 people rated 0 today
Jul 06 19:06:36 <pandora--> one 0 star because he thought it was a music app... not my fault. read the description look at the screenshots dumbass.
Jul 06 19:06:49 <halfhalo_class> What if they cant read?
Jul 06 19:06:51 <halfhalo_class> what then?
Jul 06 19:07:00 <pandora--> the second because of music licensing rights... 0 star is harsh because we didn't have the lyrics for one band
Jul 06 19:07:08 <pandora--> meh.
Jul 06 19:07:47 <pandora--> missing lyrics for one band... so app gets 0 stars. laaaame
Jul 06 19:09:13 <HattCzech_work> pandora--: hehehe i know exactly what you mean about reviews
Jul 06 19:12:18 <sugardave> literacy should be a prerequisite for reviewing
Jul 06 19:13:45 <dohtem> "I is not like teh app"
Jul 06 19:13:52 <dohtem> :)
Jul 06 19:14:31 <discombobulate> thats pretty sad they rate 0 because they can't read
Jul 06 19:14:38 <sugardave> chuqui: happy belated birthday, btw
Jul 06 19:14:48 <chuqui> hey, thanks!
Jul 06 19:15:38 <halfhalo_class> watching wc via internets
Jul 06 19:15:40 <halfhalo_class> hd ftw
Jul 06 19:17:09 <spdsktr> pandora--: it is ridiculous what people will dog you for
Jul 06 19:17:21 <pandora--> spdsktr: seriously.
Jul 06 19:17:43 <spdsktr> pandora--: get some good laughs out of it though, it's a great app
Jul 06 19:17:45 <pandora--> halfhalo_class: wc?
Jul 06 19:18:05 <sugardave> water closet
Jul 06 19:18:08 <pandora--> spdsktr: what's a great app?
Jul 06 19:18:17 <spdsktr> TuneWiki, your's right?
Jul 06 19:18:24 <pandora--> yeah
Jul 06 19:18:35 <pandora--> ah thanks :)
Jul 06 19:18:49 <halfhalo_class> world cup
Jul 06 19:18:55 <pandora--> I wanted to do 'something' to bring TuneWiki to Palm, even though it doesn't play music
Jul 06 19:19:13 <pandora--> at least until Palm's SDK allows media index access
Jul 06 19:19:27 <spdsktr> one of these days :)
Jul 06 19:19:28 <pandora--> TuneWiki on every other platform is a music player
Jul 06 19:19:32 <sugardave> email from bank "Free checking just got more free."   Hmmm...so now you are going to pay me to have a checking account?
Jul 06 19:19:37 <pandora--> which is why the Palm one is "LyricsSearch"
Jul 06 19:19:48 <pandora--> sugardave: some do :)
Jul 06 19:20:05 <sugardave> will wonders never cease?
Jul 06 19:20:27 <pandora--> spdsktr: have you used tunewiki on other platforms, or just the lyricssearch on palm?
Jul 06 19:20:43 <spdsktr> just on Palm
Jul 06 19:20:52 <pandora--> *nods* cool :)
Jul 06 19:20:54 <spdsktr> never owned an iphone or done dev for any other platform
Jul 06 19:21:00 <spdsktr> never cared to
Jul 06 19:21:07 <pandora--> spdsktr: i just submitted a new version about 2 minutes ago :)
Jul 06 19:21:20 <spdsktr> pandora--: what's new?
Jul 06 19:21:46 <pandora--> a handful of people contacted us requesting the ability to "favorite" songs
Jul 06 19:21:52 <pandora--> so.... that ^
Jul 06 19:22:20 <pandora--> you can add songs as favs, and from the main screen, go to the favorites to view/manage/delete/reorder/etc
Jul 06 19:22:38 <pandora--> and there's a facebook share button on the lyrics screen now, so you can post them to your facebook page
Jul 06 19:22:39 <spdsktr> pandora--: that's a huge plus
Jul 06 19:22:49 <pandora--> :)
Jul 06 19:22:58 <spdsktr> pandora--: The social sharing is huge too
Jul 06 19:23:42 <spdsktr> fyi for all dev's, integrating features to 'share' things from an app with others (and a link to your app) is a major way to get users promoting your stuff
Jul 06 19:23:52 <halfhalo_class> yup
Jul 06 19:24:05 * halfhalo_class hasent worked on any of his apps in months
Jul 06 19:24:11 <pandora--> spdsktr: absolutely
Jul 06 19:24:28 <spdsktr> it also helps promote Palm in general
Jul 06 19:29:07 <sugardave> webOS-info: oil
Jul 06 19:29:07 <webOS-info> oil is working
Jul 06 19:29:16 <halfhalo_class> haha
Jul 06 19:31:35 <spdsktr> pandora--: Have you thought about adding things for people to find music by browsing? Like top 100 lists and such?
Jul 06 19:39:39 <elyon> Does anyone know if "Flash 10.1 has been released to mobile platform partners" means that there actually is a green light for a webOS release ASAP?
Jul 06 19:39:43 * oil is always working
Jul 06 19:39:58 <elyon> I'm not sure if I should keep my hopes up or just give up and learn C++
Jul 06 19:40:30 <oil> elyon: i haven't seen anything about being able to build webos apps with flash
Jul 06 19:40:36 <oil> merely that it will be supported in the browser
Jul 06 19:41:18 <elyon> It's frustrating ...
Jul 06 19:41:28 <elyon> I think it ultimately has to do with Adobe, and what they have to say about it
Jul 06 19:41:40 <elyon> Technically speaking, webOS apps are the browser
Jul 06 19:42:03 <oil> right
Jul 06 19:42:05 <elyon> So we could do all kinds of things, short of Adobe enforcing artificial restraints as part of the terms of allowing Flash on the device
Jul 06 19:42:44 <elyon> I want to make hybrid webOS, Flash apps, but I'm concerned that that is what Adobe is worried about
Jul 06 19:42:58 <elyon> I'm sure they want me to use AIR so that I can port it directly to other platforms
Jul 06 19:43:21 <oil> i just saying i haven't seen anything about doing that
Jul 06 19:43:48 <elyon> Do any Palm employees hang out in this chat room, or is it just users?
Jul 06 19:43:54 <oil> they do
Jul 06 19:43:54 <spdsktr> unless it is specifically blocked, I see no reason why it cannot be used in apps
Jul 06 19:44:07 <oil> spdsktr: the problem with that
Jul 06 19:44:17 <oil> is that they've said flash will be a download from the catalog
Jul 06 19:44:36 <oil> meaning, you can't expect the user to have it on their phone to be able to support an app that requires it
Jul 06 19:44:42 <spdsktr> true
Jul 06 19:44:55 <elyon> "has been released" could mean "green light! release it now" or it can mean "released, but we've made clear our list of demands. they won't release until they bend over backwards and meet our requirements or until we actually give them permission to release it"
Jul 06 19:44:59 <spdsktr> it's been so long, I forgot abt that
Jul 06 19:45:03 <sugardave> webOS-info: Flash
Jul 06 19:45:03 <webOS-info> Flash is, like, overrated
Jul 06 19:45:12 <elyon> Games.
Jul 06 19:45:16 <elyon> Hipstamatic
Jul 06 19:45:18 <halfhalo_class> YOUR overrated
Jul 06 19:45:25 <elyon> it's stuff you can do with C++, without it being complicated
Jul 06 19:45:35 <elyon> I can make games with physics, 3D and sounds for 6 hours per game
Jul 06 19:45:41 <elyon> I CANNOT do that with HTML5 canvas
Jul 06 19:45:48 <oil> elyon: i believe "has been released" means, they've given it to palm/etc to be worked on and implemented into their product
Jul 06 19:45:53 <oil> not that its released and ready for users
Jul 06 19:45:59 <halfhalo_class> Flash will run like crap for those games methinks
Jul 06 19:45:59 <elyon> Oh yeah, I know ...
Jul 06 19:46:11 <elyon> I guess my point is this ...
Jul 06 19:46:23 <elyon> I've heard people get excited by that announcement, but I can't tell if its marketing speak
Jul 06 19:46:31 <elyon> Palm has had code for Flash this whole time ...
Jul 06 19:46:38 <elyon> but Adobe hasn't let them release it
Jul 06 19:46:43 <spdsktr> people are excited because it's something they do not have
Jul 06 19:46:47 <elyon> So now that they announce that Palm has code, that isn't anything new
Jul 06 19:47:00 <spdsktr> once they get it, they will move on and it will become les simportant
Jul 06 19:47:04 <elyon> What would be new is if it actually means there's a green light, or if they're just buying time
Jul 06 19:47:18 <elyon> As a developer, its hard to move on, or I certainly don't want to
Jul 06 19:47:33 <elyon> I can open Flash, make some graphics, switch to FlashDevelop, and make it move, explode, whatever
Jul 06 19:47:35 <elyon> Fast.
Jul 06 19:47:39 <elyon> I can't do that with any other platform
Jul 06 19:47:41 <sugardave> I'd rather have some catalog API access for app verification purposes
Jul 06 19:47:48 <sugardave> that seems more useful
Jul 06 19:47:49 <elyon> But if Flash never arrives for webOS, I can't do it with Flash, either
Jul 06 19:48:03 <spdsktr> sugardave: mic api first :)
Jul 06 19:48:05 <oil> your best bet: learn c
Jul 06 19:48:06 <oil> haha
Jul 06 19:48:45 <sugardave> spdsktr: oh, okay...mic API is important, too :P
Jul 06 19:49:15 <elyon> I'd love to put stuff like this on webOS:
Jul 06 19:49:16 <elyon> http://www.eclecticdesignstudio.com/clients/flyingrhino/upward/soccer/juggling/01/
Jul 06 19:50:38 <oil> you could do that with javascript
Jul 06 19:50:56 <elyon> With real-time physics?
Jul 06 19:51:07 <spdsktr> yeah
Jul 06 19:51:19 <elyon> Plus, animations in Javascript have always been a pain, in my experience
Jul 06 19:51:31 <sugardave> isn't actionscript extended javascript anyway?
Jul 06 19:51:36 * sugardave doesn't know.
Jul 06 19:51:36 <spdsktr> flash = actionscript = basically javascript
Jul 06 19:51:42 <oil> actionscript is very close to javascrip[t
Jul 06 19:52:10 <pandora--> spdsktr: back.  actually that's a great idea.  tunewiki has those apis, i even built in a "top 50 songs" feature into the java version of TuneWiki
Jul 06 19:52:14 <oil> elyon: you can do animations in js the same way you do them in actionscript
Jul 06 19:52:20 <pandora--> spdsktr: thanks :)
Jul 06 19:52:23 <oil> by setting the x/y of an element
Jul 06 19:52:29 <spdsktr> pandora--: np, I am full of great ideas
Jul 06 19:53:10 <sugardave> that's what I'd say
Jul 06 19:53:14 <elyon> The thing is, I can open up Flash, make things look exactly the way I want, then I can switch over to code and make anything move, change color, change size, whatever
Jul 06 19:53:22 <oil> lol
Jul 06 19:53:22 <spdsktr> pandora--: fyi, the results are not working on the app right now
Jul 06 19:53:29 <elyon> But in Javascript, it's a pain to get things to look right, unless it's all one image
Jul 06 19:53:32 <oil> the thing is... you're used to one thing, and change = bad?
Jul 06 19:53:35 <pandora--> spdsktr: we also have social maps in our other platforms. that would be easy enough to add to webos.
Jul 06 19:53:44 <pandora--> spdsktr: the artist search? or something else?
Jul 06 19:53:45 <elyon> And you can't just arbitrarily change colors and such ... not that I know of.
Jul 06 19:53:53 <oil> depending on how you do things
Jul 06 19:53:58 <pandora--> spdsktr: artist search has been up/down for a few days :(
Jul 06 19:53:59 <sugardave> elyon: I am the world's worst graphics person, and even I managed to make a game for webOS
Jul 06 19:53:59 <elyon> And there isn't Away3D or Box2D in Javascript, that I know of
Jul 06 19:54:03 <spdsktr> pandora--: yeah, artist search returns results, but tap on one and it says tehre was an error
Jul 06 19:54:11 <elyon> And the bottom line, of course
Jul 06 19:54:13 <pandora--> interesting. what artist did you search for?
Jul 06 19:54:23 <elyon> I made a whole bunch of these games, average 6 hours per game
Jul 06 19:54:26 <elyon> or 5 hours, I think.
Jul 06 19:54:39 <elyon> I've never had that good of an experience in HTML and JS
Jul 06 19:54:45 <elyon> Not for games, at least
Jul 06 19:54:46 <spdsktr> pandora--: lady gaga and rolling stones, I can try others, but prolly for all
Jul 06 19:54:52 <elyon> I mean, don't get me wrong -- it's great for normal apps
Jul 06 19:55:05 <sugardave> elyon: remember, you only have one browser to dev the js for here
Jul 06 19:55:10 <sugardave> it's a lot simpler
Jul 06 19:55:47 <spdsktr> that's why I love webOS, I do not have to worry about IE anymore so I can use all the cool things :)
Jul 06 19:56:13 <elyon> Hmm. There is a JS port for Box2D
Jul 06 19:56:16 <pandora--> spdsktr: i searched "lady gaga" and tapped the album "fame monster" and it worked
Jul 06 19:56:21 <elyon> Still, Away3D is pretty sweet
Jul 06 19:56:23 <pandora--> spdsktr: what album did you tap?
Jul 06 19:56:45 <oil> elyon: im just saying, don't hold your breath for flash support in-app
Jul 06 19:57:42 <elyon> That's why I'm trying to decide if I just need to keep waiting, or if I need to give up and do something else
Jul 06 19:57:57 <elyon> http://www.eldoradostone.com/outdoor/tool/
Jul 06 19:57:59 <spdsktr> pandora--: Ok, so I was cheap and searched on "gaga", then tapped "Tonight the midway shines" >> "No results found. Try another search"
Jul 06 19:58:13 <elyon> That tool has 3D and physics, to drag and drop 3D objects and snap them together
Jul 06 19:58:17 <oil> #1 there has been no mention of flash-in-app support, only for flash in the browser
Jul 06 19:58:29 <oil> #2 flash won't be on every device, its a download from the catalog
Jul 06 19:58:31 <elyon> I wouldn't expect it to work as-is in webOS, but I couldn't ever imagine matching that with Javascript
Jul 06 19:58:39 <sugardave> elyon: "Give up" is the advice we (me and the other amateurs) like to give to new devs anyway
Jul 06 19:58:49 <elyon> Well, I wouldn't care if it is a download from the catalog
Jul 06 19:59:02 <elyon> Bible Reader supports Facebook integration, but that's another download
Jul 06 19:59:20 <elyon> You just give people a nice message which says that Flash is required, so please download it and come back
Jul 06 19:59:26 <oil> well then
Jul 06 19:59:34 <pandora--> spdsktr: ah. yeah i see that too.
Jul 06 19:59:35 <oil> im obviously not going to tell you anything you want to hear
Jul 06 19:59:38 <oil> so, feel free to keep waiting
Jul 06 20:00:16 <spdsktr> pandora--: but you are right, proper full term searches work fine with the results. No partial matching in searching?
Jul 06 20:00:19 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: Ping
Jul 06 20:00:35 <chuqui>   poing
Jul 06 20:00:40 <pandora--> spdsktr: partials /should/ work :)
Jul 06 20:00:54 <spdsktr> pandora--: that looks like an oops then
Jul 06 20:00:59 <elyon> oil: I'm sorry if I sound belligerent. I met a Palm employee who had Flash integrated in one of his apps, on his phone, but he wasn't allowed to show it to me
Jul 06 20:01:00 <pandora--> though, it sounds like there's an artist "gaga" that was an exact match
Jul 06 20:01:47 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: Did you see my question before about the app name problem?
Jul 06 20:01:55 <pandora--> spdsktr: heh.. or not. if you search it on our site, "lady gaga" comes back. http://www.tunewiki.com/search.aspx?q=gaga
Jul 06 20:02:04 <pandora--> spdsktr: thanks for pointing it out
Jul 06 20:02:08 <chuqui> um.. maybe?
Jul 06 20:02:15 <chuqui> (not remembering it offhand)
Jul 06 20:02:17 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: You around?  Have a quick question:  Uploading release version of webOSroundup app and it won't let me update the application title since I forgot to put 'beta' in the title before.
Jul 06 20:02:19 <Roy-Pre101> I changed the beta's title.  How long do I have to wait before it will release the name?
Jul 06 20:02:22 <Roy-Pre101> (the beta was in the beta feed)
Jul 06 20:02:24 <spdsktr> pandora--: np, it's the little things that get overlooked
Jul 06 20:02:32 <Roy-Pre101> It's been a couple hours and no joy yet.
Jul 06 20:02:44 <sugardave> webOS-info: Dr. Pepper
Jul 06 20:02:44 * webOS-info pours you a frosty one.
Jul 06 20:02:45 <oil> so a palm employee basically told you that flash will be allowed in-app and you still came in here asking if it was possible?
Jul 06 20:02:48 <sugardave> mmmm
Jul 06 20:03:02 * oil stops trying to help people
Jul 06 20:03:10 * halfhalo_class never started
Jul 06 20:03:25 * oil should have followed halfhalos example
Jul 06 20:03:31 <sugardave> oil: oh, you were trying to help?
Jul 06 20:03:33 <spdsktr> oil: I gave that up myself
Jul 06 20:03:34 <sugardave> my bad
Jul 06 20:03:34 * halfhalo_class damn straight
Jul 06 20:03:47 <Roy-Pre101> Is there a way to fix that?
Jul 06 20:05:34 * oil goes back to work
Jul 06 20:05:42 <sugardave> webOS-info: oil
Jul 06 20:05:43 <webOS-info> oil is spewing in the Gulf of Mexico
Jul 06 20:05:59 <elyon> sugardave: which game in the catalog did you make?
Jul 06 20:06:01 <halfhalo_class> tsktsktsk
Jul 06 20:06:06 <spdsktr> please do not remind me of the oil in the gulf :(
Jul 06 20:06:33 <sugardave> elyon: not a good one (it doesn't animate at all), I'm just using it as an example to show that "anyhing is possible"
Jul 06 20:06:37 <sugardave> it is called Mind Master
Jul 06 20:06:46 <sugardave> it is a logic game
Jul 06 20:06:49 <Roy-Pre101> webos-info: Roy-Pre101
Jul 06 20:06:49 <webOS-info> Roy-Pre101: what?
Jul 06 20:06:56 * Roy-Pre101 shrugs.
Jul 06 20:07:44 <elyon> chuqui: do you know anything about Palm on webOS?
Jul 06 20:08:11 <elyon> oops
Jul 06 20:08:15 <elyon> I mean Flash on webOS
Jul 06 20:08:21 <elyon> hah, Palm on webOS :)
Jul 06 20:08:23 <sugardave> webOS-info: Roy-Pre101 is runs the webOS roundup: http://www.webosroundup.com/|the creator of webOS101: http://www.webos101.com/
Jul 06 20:08:23 <webOS-info> OK, sugardave.
Jul 06 20:08:28 <sugardave> webOS-info: Roy-Pre101
Jul 06 20:08:29 <webOS-info> Roy-Pre101 is runs the webOS roundup: http://www.webosroundup.com/
Jul 06 20:08:33 <sugardave> dammit
Jul 06 20:08:41 <sugardave> webOS-info: forget Roy-Pre101
Jul 06 20:08:41 <webOS-info> sugardave: I forgot roy-pre101
Jul 06 20:08:52 <discombobulate> you suck sugardave
Jul 06 20:09:24 <sugardave> webOS-info: Roy-Pre101 is <reply> Roy runs the webOS roundup: http://www.webosroundup.com/|<reply> Roy is the creator of webOS101: http://www.webos101.com/
Jul 06 20:09:24 <webOS-info> OK, sugardave.
Jul 06 20:09:29 <sugardave> webOS-info: Roy-Pre101
Jul 06 20:09:29 <webOS-info> Roy is the creator of webOS101: http://www.webos101.com/
Jul 06 20:09:36 <sugardave> webOS-info: Roy-Pre101
Jul 06 20:09:36 <webOS-info> Roy runs the webOS roundup: http://www.webosroundup.com/
Jul 06 20:09:44 <sugardave> ta-da
Jul 06 20:09:45 <chuqui> I know nothing about Palm on webOS, no.
Jul 06 20:09:50 <oil> lol
Jul 06 20:09:53 <sugardave> webOS-info: chuqui
Jul 06 20:09:53 <webOS-info> LOOK A PUPPY!!
Jul 06 20:09:56 <bougyman> /1/3
Jul 06 20:10:04 <sugardave> okay, I will give that one a rest
Jul 06 20:10:09 <sugardave> couldn't resist
Jul 06 20:10:36 <discombobulate> damn slow review process
Jul 06 20:10:37 <elyon> I don't wish to bother anyone, but I wanted to ask a small Flash question to anyone who works at Palm
Jul 06 20:10:40 <chuqui> roy-pre101 you'll need to use a different name. Once a n ame is used, it can't be repurposed, even if you change the name on the original app.
Jul 06 20:11:03 <chuqui> elyon you can ask. I don't know if I have the answer.
Jul 06 20:11:19 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: That's a small problem...
Jul 06 20:11:28 <Roy-Pre101> If I delete the app will it remove the lock?
Jul 06 20:11:42 <chuqui> discombobulate well, our review team is allowed to have weekends (and the occasional holiday). If we don't, they get grumpy
Jul 06 20:11:59 <discombobulate> chuqui; yeah.. sorry..
Jul 06 20:12:00 <chuqui> roy-pre101 or maybe a moderate problem. but it's reality right now... unfortunately.
Jul 06 20:12:09 <elyon> chuqui: For Flash to release, A) Adobe needs to release code, B) Adobe needs to provide permission, C) Palm needs to integrate D) Palm (and maybe wireless carriers) need to release it
Jul 06 20:12:11 <discombobulate> chuqui; no offense intended :)
Jul 06 20:12:23 <elyon> chuqui: So, Adobe announced they "released code", basically
Jul 06 20:12:39 <elyon> chuqui: but what I wonder, is if that means Palm has a green light?
Jul 06 20:12:41 <chuqui> discombobulate I was in a meeting a couple of weeks ago where I suggested we go back to chaining the review team to their cubes and throwing hunks of raw meat over the walls to feed them. I barely got out alive.
Jul 06 20:13:10 <discombobulate> hey that sounds like a plan
Jul 06 20:13:12 <elyon> chuqui: If Flash is in Palm's hands, I won't worry about it, because I know you guys care and will release it as soon as you can
Jul 06 20:13:15 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: sooo, even if I delete the beta app it won't free the name?  Or maybe it will?  Or... I wasn't clear on that part.
Jul 06 20:13:32 <elyon> chuqui: but I don't know if Adobe was just playing games with marketing'
Jul 06 20:14:04 <MetaView> I wonder how I can move a div a bit to the left
Jul 06 20:14:08 <elyon> chuqui: Does that make sense? I'm just wondering if "released to platform partners" means that you guys can release it as soon as you want to, or if they're just pulling everyone's leg
Jul 06 20:14:12 <chuqui> elyon we're continuing to work with adobe on the flash project. It's primarily adobe's project, though. And press releases are, well, sometimes press releases.
Jul 06 20:14:27 <chuqui> elyon the project continues to move forward. But I can't go into details or give dates.
Jul 06 20:14:37 <elyon> chuqui: So the ball's kind of in their court? That's all I'm wondering
Jul 06 20:16:09 <Roy-Pre101> elyon: I think you've got all the answer you're going to get on this one.
Jul 06 20:16:15 <chuqui> elyon the ball's really in both our courts.
Jul 06 20:16:22 <chuqui> roy-pre101 unfortuantely correct
Jul 06 20:16:26 <sugardave> Schroedinger's....ball?
Jul 06 20:16:30 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: Is it schr....
Jul 06 20:16:36 * Roy-Pre101 kicks sugardave.
Jul 06 20:16:40 <sugardave> heh
Jul 06 20:17:04 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: Was that the answer to my question?
Jul 06 20:17:11 <appamajig> MetaView: try setting a css style... margin-left=-4px
Jul 06 20:17:13 <Roy-Pre101> chuqui: sooo, even if I delete the beta app it won't free the name?  Or maybe it will?  Or... I wasn't clear on that part.
Jul 06 20:17:15 <chuqui> roy-pre101 yes. unfortunately.
Jul 06 20:17:20 <Roy-Pre101> :(
Jul 06 20:17:32 <sugardave> that's slightly larger than a moderate problem
Jul 06 20:17:38 <elyon> Can't you rename the app?
Jul 06 20:17:45 <MetaView> appamajig: yes, thx, I was gaming with the wrong class.... :)
Jul 06 20:17:47 <elyon> Or you need the namespace?
Jul 06 20:17:49 <chuqui> roy-pre101 once the name is used, it's used.
Jul 06 20:17:56 <spdsktr> Roy-Pre101: Just use webOS Roundup News
Jul 06 20:18:03 <spdsktr> Roy-Pre101: or The webOS Roundup
Jul 06 20:18:06 <chuqui> you can rename the app. But the system keeps track of the fact that the old name was once uysed, and won't let it be re-assigned.
Jul 06 20:18:13 <Roy-Pre101> There's no one I can slip a mocha frappuccino to do some database magic?
Jul 06 20:18:23 <discombobulate> heh
Jul 06 20:18:24 <appamajig> what's up Roy?
Jul 06 20:18:28 <chuqui> there isn't a mocha frap large enough to fix this one.
Jul 06 20:18:32 <sugardave> webOS-info: mojo database questions
Jul 06 20:18:32 <webOS-info> mojo database questions are best answered by haeffb
Jul 06 20:18:33 <elyon> haha
Jul 06 20:18:52 <appamajig> chuqui: lol
Jul 06 20:18:58 <halfhalo_class> webOS-info: halfhalo
Jul 06 20:18:58 <webOS-info> well, halfhalo is an insane homicidal programmer or a creeper. watch out
Jul 06 20:19:21 <halfhalo_class> webOS-info: gun
Jul 06 20:19:21 <webOS-info> gun is, like, pewpew pewpew
Jul 06 20:19:41 <elyon> Okay, so "theoretically", what would you recommend to "someone" who has expert experience with Flash and AS3, but hasn't tried to build games in either JS, HTML5 canvas or C++?
Jul 06 20:20:15 <elyon> Does "he" learn C++, and use some framework? Does he hobble his way through games in Javascript? Does he wait for Flash, and die waiting? :)
Jul 06 20:20:33 <appamajig> It depends on the requirements of the game
Jul 06 20:20:48 <chuqui> elyon I'm "refreshing" my C++, which I haven't touched since it was called "C"
Jul 06 20:21:01 <HattCzech_work> webOS-info: HattCzech
Jul 06 20:21:01 <webOS-info> HattCzech_work: what?
Jul 06 20:21:01 <elyon> Lots of graphics, sound and music. Lots of animation. Ideally physics and 3D
Jul 06 20:21:03 <appamajig> does it need a 3d api? go C++ for sure... need good, fast sprites? might want canvas... if it's pretty simple, probably go with JS
Jul 06 20:21:09 <HattCzech_work> hehe
Jul 06 20:21:21 <elyon> Like ... umm ... a 1941 clone
Jul 06 20:21:23 <spdsktr> elyon: I think the best advice is wait and see what happens
Jul 06 20:21:34 <elyon> Or games like that soccer juggling game that I linked earlier
Jul 06 20:21:35 <appamajig> so, you're looking at C++ almost for sure... might be able to get away with canvas...
Jul 06 20:21:49 <elyon> Somewhere between casual (but active) games, and full-blown games
Jul 06 20:21:53 <chuqui> elyon I'm not sure I'd wait. it never hurts to add tools to your toolbelt.
Jul 06 20:22:17 <sugardave> it might if they're really poky
Jul 06 20:22:20 <appamajig> yeah, C++ is an incredibly powerful and fast language... but it's low level and has a good bit of learning curve...
Jul 06 20:22:23 <elyon> Here's an extreme example, but here's my concern ...
Jul 06 20:22:38 <elyon> Umm... I used to program for my TI-89 graphing calculator
Jul 06 20:22:40 <chuqui> elyon I think LONG TERM the best way to program webOS will be the hybrid approach: Javascript/CSS/Html to do UI and general logic, and C++/PDK for core programming.
Jul 06 20:22:47 <elyon> They had a high-level language, and assembly
Jul 06 20:22:51 <chuqui> C++/PDK will be the primary toolset for immersive/game type apps.
Jul 06 20:22:59 <elyon> assembly runs faster, but it was way faster to code the higher level language
Jul 06 20:23:01 <appamajig> definately
Jul 06 20:23:08 <elyon> So yeah, I can do more with C++, but isn't it a step backwards?
Jul 06 20:23:11 <chuqui> (unfortunately, we're still building in hooks for the hybrid stuff, so it's not fully cooked yet. but it's where I'm aiming at)
Jul 06 20:23:12 <appamajig> but if you're making a poker game... you can do it with SJ
Jul 06 20:23:15 <appamajig> SJ=JS
Jul 06 20:23:26 <appamajig> I like the idea for the hybrid stuff
Jul 06 20:23:28 <elyon> There's a million frameworks I can use in Flash to work smarter, not harder
Jul 06 20:23:44 <elyon> I can control things on a pixel level, but I don't, because I don't have to
Jul 06 20:23:48 <chuqui> as to flash, I haven't seen a mobile environment for flash yet that makes me think it'll be as good a development environment as the platform's primary development system.
Jul 06 20:24:00 <appamajig> chuqui: agreed
Jul 06 20:24:30 <chuqui> so for me, as a developer, do I want to use tools I know but aren't as good for a platform? Or enhance my skill set and be able to fully take advantage of the platform? To me, the answer's easy.
Jul 06 20:24:57 <appamajig> elyon: if you look around you'll find a lot of libraries that will help you make games
Jul 06 20:24:58 <chuqui> and if it turns out later that flash IS able to do what you want, you still have the new toolsets that you can use when they're useful. But waiting means falling behind, if you ask me...
Jul 06 20:25:22 <spdsktr> chuqui: true true
Jul 06 20:25:29 <chuqui> cool. look's lik ethe shiva game engine's in beta: http://www.precentral.net/stonestrips-shiva-19-3d-game-engine-hits-beta-adds-support-webos
Jul 06 20:25:51 <halfhalo_class> my anwsers usually involve axe's and fire
Jul 06 20:26:15 <elyon> I believe it is best when visual work is done visually, and programming is done with a powerful, flexible IDE, with an emphasis on code completion and compile time errors, so you spend less time thinking and bug hunting and more time being productive
Jul 06 20:26:18 <elyon> I have all that in Flash
Jul 06 20:26:35 <elyon> That's the pain of HTML and CSS sometimes. You can't "see" it until you compile it
Jul 06 20:26:51 <elyon> You can't open up a graphics editor, make your graphics the way you want visually, then move on
Jul 06 20:26:54 <halfhalo_class> compile... html?
Jul 06 20:26:56 <elyon> Not unless your whole site is one JPG
Jul 06 20:26:58 <elyon> Render
Jul 06 20:27:01 <halfhalo_class> dreamweaver?
Jul 06 20:27:01 <appamajig> lol
Jul 06 20:27:03 <elyon> upload and refresh the site
Jul 06 20:27:08 <elyon> Or compile a webOS app and run it
Jul 06 20:27:20 <elyon> Or C++ needs to be compiled
Jul 06 20:27:29 <halfhalo_class> it takes literally 2 seconds to package a webos app
Jul 06 20:28:03 <appamajig> it takes about 5 seconds for me to package and run the app that I'm currently working on... it's about 200KB of code/html... It pops right up so I can see what I made...
Jul 06 20:28:05 <elyon> *sigh*
Jul 06 20:28:15 <elyon> Unless it isn't the first screen of the app
Jul 06 20:28:26 <appamajig> and tap tap
Jul 06 20:28:27 <elyon> And why is that better than seeing what you're doing, while you're doing it?
Jul 06 20:28:35 <appamajig> whatever... this is a silly argument
Jul 06 20:28:55 <appamajig> I'm glad you like flash, use it... but don't wait with baited breath, it could be months until it comes out... or weeks...
Jul 06 20:29:21 <elyon> Look, I'm not trying to argue Flash versus everything.
Jul 06 20:29:32 <elyon> I've built several webOS apps, which are all Javascript
Jul 06 20:29:37 <appamajig> lol you have a certain style of programming that works for you, and so do I
Jul 06 20:29:46 <elyon> Right tool for the right job.
Jul 06 20:30:00 <elyon> compared to Flash, JS seems like a poor choice for robust games
Jul 06 20:30:06 <appamajig> yeah, it is
Jul 06 20:30:09 <elyon> Unless "robust" is Sudoku and crosswords
Jul 06 20:30:09 <appamajig> use C++... it's not
Jul 06 20:30:18 <codeslaw> i have to agree, as a pro flash developer, that AS3 is a superior language to JS
Jul 06 20:30:55 <elyon> AS vs JS was a toss up, but AS3 is a different ball game, especially with FlashDevelop ;)
Jul 06 20:30:56 <codeslaw> what took me weeks to optimize in JS would take me hours in AS3.  DisplayList is a superior paradigm to DOM
Jul 06 20:31:12 <elyon> Okay, so all that said, if I were to go the road of C++
Jul 06 20:31:26 <elyon> How do you merge graphics with code?
Jul 06 20:31:40 <elyon> Do you have to manage memory addresses?
Jul 06 20:31:47 <codeslaw> SDL abstracts most of that for you
Jul 06 20:32:07 <codeslaw> but its all about blitting
Jul 06 20:32:23 <elyon> So do you start up by writing for SDL and OpenGL directly, or do you find a framework that does the "dirty work" for you?
Jul 06 20:32:26 <codeslaw> not dealing with mutable display objects like in flash, your dealing with bitmap data
Jul 06 20:32:37 <codeslaw> SDL is the framework that does the dirty work
Jul 06 20:32:48 <elyon> Does it handle transparency for you?
Jul 06 20:32:51 <appamajig> depends on what you want... you like to use frameworks it sounds like, so do that :) but then you have to learn that framework on top of the language...
Jul 06 20:33:09 <appamajig> doh, afk a bit
Jul 06 20:33:20 <codeslaw> elyon: interesting that you ask.  SDL sucks royal balls at alpha compositing
Jul 06 20:33:38 <elyon> Well, I built a few AS3 frameworks. I'll give an example here.
Jul 06 20:33:56 <codeslaw> a) you have to use an external library to even get RGBA->RGBA blits to work
Jul 06 20:34:02 <elyon> So I built a tween library that's faster than TweenLite. I can tell my objects when and where and how to animate, and they do it. The overwriting and mechanics are all handled for me
Jul 06 20:34:07 <codeslaw> b) its very, very slow
Jul 06 20:34:14 <elyon> By being able to work on a level of "what" instead of how, it makes my work much faster
Jul 06 20:34:16 <codeslaw> whats your tweening engine called
Jul 06 20:34:21 <elyon> Actuate
Jul 06 20:34:41 <codeslaw> how are you metering its speed vs tweenlite?
Jul 06 20:34:45 <elyon> Actuate.tween (MyClip, 1, { alpha: 1, x: 100, y: 200 } ).onComplete (trace, "Hello World").delay (2)
Jul 06 20:35:11 <elyon> I've used a few tween benchmarks
Jul 06 20:35:25 <codeslaw> hhm, i can dig the method chaining
Jul 06 20:35:25 <elyon> it's about 2% faster on an X,Y,Alpha tween
Jul 06 20:35:31 <elyon> 12% faster for bezier, I think
Jul 06 20:35:41 <elyon> And 8% faster than TweenMax, I think
Jul 06 20:35:43 <elyon> I forget :)
Jul 06 20:36:06 <elyon> code.google.com/p/actuate
Jul 06 20:36:09 <codeslaw> aside from object management, i don't see how it can be faster at alpha/position tweening
Jul 06 20:36:26 <elyon> One of the big differences is inheritance
Jul 06 20:36:36 <elyon> So if you do a standard tween, Actuate uses a lightweight tween
Jul 06 20:36:52 <elyon> If you want something fancy, like tweening filters or something like that, it uses a superclass of the lightweight tween
Jul 06 20:37:07 <codeslaw> super class or sub class?
Jul 06 20:37:07 <elyon> So TweenLite has all of its features available all the time, but Actuate turns them on intelligently
Jul 06 20:37:12 <elyon> oops, yeah :)
Jul 06 20:37:31 <elyon> And it's strongly typed
Jul 06 20:37:36 <elyon> so no "special keywords"
Jul 06 20:37:43 <codeslaw> so your tween objects weigh less, but how does that affect the speed at which they are iterated through
Jul 06 20:37:57 <elyon> instead of { delay: 2, onComplete: trace, onCompleteParams: [ 'trace' ] } it only accepts parameters to tween the target object
Jul 06 20:37:59 <codeslaw> ok, so you aren't using string parameter parsing?
Jul 06 20:38:06 <elyon> Then you chain delay, onComplete or other things like that. That's all faster
Jul 06 20:38:16 <HattCzech_work> chuqui_napping: when will we get verification on the status of the hot apps competition?
Jul 06 20:38:18 <elyon> And the tween functions are strongly typed as well, which is faster than using generic functions
Jul 06 20:38:27 <codeslaw> so you have typed parameters for each tweenable property?
Jul 06 20:38:33 <elyon> no, no
Jul 06 20:39:00 <elyon> Actuate.tween (genericObject, duration, genericObject)
Jul 06 20:39:12 <elyon> .onComplete (method, ... params);
Jul 06 20:39:16 <elyon> .delay (duration)
Jul 06 20:39:29 <elyon> It's generic for the target and the params for the object
Jul 06 20:39:35 <elyon> But all the "special" features are strongly typed
Jul 06 20:39:51 <elyon> It doesn't have to check if the parameters has "delay" present. Does that make sense?
Jul 06 20:39:55 <codeslaw> yes
Jul 06 20:39:58 <elyon> It just assumes they all are numeric values to be tweened
Jul 06 20:40:10 <codeslaw> i see
Jul 06 20:40:16 <codeslaw> is it infinitely chainable?
Jul 06 20:40:26 <elyon> Yes and no
Jul 06 20:40:34 <elyon> I juggled back and forth on how to handle chaining animations
Jul 06 20:40:48 <elyon> I decided not to allow multiple animations in the same chain, because it became a pain to manage
Jul 06 20:41:25 <elyon> Actuate.tween (MyClip, 1, { alpha: 1 } ).delay (2).onComplete (trace, "hello", "world").tween (MyOtherClip, 2, { x: 100, y: 100 } ).delay (5).onComplete (trace, "hello");
Jul 06 20:41:29 <elyon> it starts to become a mess
Jul 06 20:41:33 <elyon> So you can do this:
Jul 06 20:41:46 <elyon> Actuate.tween (MyClip, 1, { alpha: 1 }, false).delay (2);
Jul 06 20:41:51 <elyon> And it will disable overwriting
Jul 06 20:41:57 <chuqui_napping> we're working on it. stay tuned.
Jul 06 20:42:23 <elyon> Actuate.tween (MyClip, 1, { alpha: 1 }); then Actuate.tween (MyClip, 1, { x: 100 }, false).delay (1);
Jul 06 20:42:30 <elyon> will chain two animations for the same object
Jul 06 20:42:49 <codeslaw> ok
Jul 06 20:42:52 <elyon> So then it's easy to know when each animation starts, how long it lasts, that sort of thing
Jul 06 20:42:59 <codeslaw> ya
Jul 06 20:43:06 <elyon> Or to turn off an animation in the middle. Chains are horrible at letting you turn off animation 5 of 7
Jul 06 20:43:29 <codeslaw> i'd have to take an existing piece and port the animation over from tweenlite to your engine, to get an idea of whether i prefer it or not
Jul 06 20:43:45 <codeslaw> is it open source?
Jul 06 20:43:51 <elyon> I also developed libraries for the games I developed in AS3, which I'd love to use
Jul 06 20:43:52 <elyon> Yep, it is
Jul 06 20:44:09 <elyon> I can say "SoundManager.play ("MySound");" and it will play it for me
Jul 06 20:44:27 <elyon> Configuring auto-fading between sounds, global volume control, pause all, resume all, instantiation automatically, etc
Jul 06 20:44:39 <elyon> I can say "MyPlayer.showBehavior ('jump');"
Jul 06 20:44:44 <codeslaw> ya i built our sound framework for my agency
Jul 06 20:44:50 <elyon> MyPlayer.showBehavior ('run');
Jul 06 20:45:12 <elyon> Then the character will jump, then at the appropriate time in the animation, warm up into running, loop the run animation, then wait for instructions
Jul 06 20:45:30 <elyon> if I say MyPlayer.showBehavior ('jump') again, he will bring his arms down out of the running loop, then change to the jump animation
Jul 06 20:45:34 <elyon> all automatically
Jul 06 20:45:41 <codeslaw> pretty cool
Jul 06 20:45:44 <elyon> So if I have Flash for a webOS game, I'm mostly there
Jul 06 20:45:59 <elyon> If I have to work with pixels in HTML5, however, I'm back to ground zero
Jul 06 20:46:08 <elyon> Like using morse code instead of a computer :)
Jul 06 20:46:21 <codeslaw> i ported the engine for paintr lite from AS3 to JS in only a couple of hours
Jul 06 20:46:27 <elyon> I don't want to write binary, I want AS3!
Jul 06 20:46:29 <elyon> :)
Jul 06 20:46:51 <codeslaw> for JS, you just need to code up some abstractions to put your stuff on the canvas in a sane way
Jul 06 20:46:53 <elyon> Do you think that JS is capable of doing what we need it to do, or do you think C++ is the best bet?
Jul 06 20:47:04 <codeslaw> totally depends...
Jul 06 20:47:06 <elyon> Yeah, using the Class.create method makes JS a whole lot better
Jul 06 20:47:35 <codeslaw> i wouldnt even try 3D flash on phone hardware
Jul 06 20:47:58 <elyon> Well, there's clever ways to get around it
Jul 06 20:48:07 <elyon> For example, you can use a 3D engine to generate sprites
Jul 06 20:48:36 <elyon> So you set up your scene, display a 2D graphic over the top, print one 3D frame, then cut it up and move it in 2D, then change the camera, snap another 3D snapshot ...
Jul 06 20:48:37 <elyon> etc.
Jul 06 20:48:58 <elyon> The big 3D tool I did renders only one object at a time, but lets you build a room of many many objects
Jul 06 20:49:18 <elyon> So on a phone, I'd imagine you just have to be a lot more creative, but it could at least render a 3D cube with no bitmap textures
Jul 06 20:49:24 <elyon> Which might be all you need
Jul 06 20:49:41 <codeslaw> i'm saying, real time 3D -- openGL will obliterate any flash based implementation
Jul 06 20:49:49 <elyon> Well, yeah, I'd agree
Jul 06 20:50:09 <elyon> Here's what I'm thinking ... (thinking out loud) ...
Jul 06 20:50:17 <codeslaw> but yes, you have to think outside the box when working with (slow) phone hardware
Jul 06 20:50:19 <elyon> In Actionscript 3, I feel so free to create, move forward, accomplish ...
Jul 06 20:50:32 <elyon> But yeah, I could write in assembly and have better performance, but at what cost?
Jul 06 20:50:43 <elyon> BetweenAS3 is faster than Actuate, but its all instance based ... no global management
Jul 06 20:50:56 <codeslaw> well, assembly is an exaggeration
Jul 06 20:50:56 <elyon> So if you create a conflicting tween, they'll both run, which has terrible results
Jul 06 20:51:11 <elyon> Actuate handles the overwriting automatically
Jul 06 20:51:34 <elyon> So I sacrificed a little performance, but gained a whole lot in productivity, and practically speaking, it still runs fast enough. Faster than TweenLite is fast enough! :)
Jul 06 20:52:02 <elyon> So as far as the phone goes, I know c++ runs faster, but what do I sacrifice in productivity, when I'm spending all my time hunting down memory addresses and blending pixels?
Jul 06 20:52:21 <elyon> I know SDL and OpenGL make it better than it could be, but I'm not sure if its worth it, and if it is worth it, I'm not sure where to start
Jul 06 20:52:32 <elyon> My first "hello world" app for Palm OS 5 took forever
Jul 06 20:52:37 <elyon> It took minutes for webOS
Jul 06 20:53:10 <elyon> That's what I'm talking about. I'm sure C++ now is at least easier to write and compile for the PDK than it was for the old Palm OS
Jul 06 20:53:34 <elyon> I still don't know how to get from A to Z, though, and I still miss Flash
Jul 06 20:53:51 <codeslaw> yep
Jul 06 20:54:20 <codeslaw> i'm moving forward with both PDK and SDK apps, but depending on how well flash runs when its out for webos, i might change that
Jul 06 20:54:51 <elyon> Do you use FlashDevelop, FlexBuilder, ?
Jul 06 20:54:56 <codeslaw> flexbuilder
Jul 06 20:55:01 <elyon> On a Mac?
Jul 06 20:55:04 <codeslaw> yes
Jul 06 20:55:05 <thynctank> codeslaw: have they announced Flash support in apps vs just in browser? Like is that all you have to do is embed the same plugin?
Jul 06 20:55:16 <codeslaw> thynctank: no idea =(
Jul 06 20:55:22 <elyon> FlashDevelop is the best IDE I've used ... ever ;)
Jul 06 20:55:24 <elyon> But it's PC only
Jul 06 20:55:26 <thynctank> codeslaw: I was never clear about the matter but have wondered
Jul 06 20:55:32 <elyon> It has to do with Adobe
Jul 06 20:55:40 <elyon> Can it be done in a webOS app? Absolutely
Jul 06 20:55:44 <elyon> Just like you would in a browser
Jul 06 20:55:45 <codeslaw> elyon: i know, i heard it's very nice, but... clearly i can't run it
Jul 06 20:55:53 <elyon> Will Adobe allow that? No idea
Jul 06 20:56:04 <codeslaw> adobe will allow it
Jul 06 20:56:05 <elyon> codeslaw: Yeah, I understand :)
Jul 06 20:56:10 <codeslaw> they WANT to see flash apps
Jul 06 20:56:19 <elyon> i know, but they probably want AIR apps
Jul 06 20:56:23 <codeslaw> well ya
Jul 06 20:56:26 <codeslaw> which is even better
Jul 06 20:56:31 <elyon> If you allow hybrid webOS apps, then it's specifically a webOS app
Jul 06 20:56:39 <elyon> If it's AIR, it's already ready for other platforms
Jul 06 20:56:53 <elyon> I want to be able to make hybrid apps, but I don't know if they'll allow Palm to do that
Jul 06 20:57:36 <elyon> So codeslaw, so far, do you think C++ is worth the time, or do you think JS is better?
Jul 06 20:57:43 <elyon> I'm not looking to make the next Starfox game
Jul 06 20:57:57 <elyon> But I'd like to be able to do something more active than forms
Jul 06 20:58:15 <codeslaw> i would say, prototype something out in JS
Jul 06 20:58:23 <codeslaw> if it performs like shit, port it
Jul 06 20:58:34 <codeslaw> if you need robust sound, dont bother with JS at this point
Jul 06 20:58:56 <elyon> So the main reason why you would use C++ is for features, but not for the development environment, or speed of development?
Jul 06 20:59:11 <codeslaw> exactly
Jul 06 20:59:16 <elyon> So if you don't absolutely need to have it for performance, you're better off ... okay
Jul 06 20:59:38 <elyon> Unless there was some kind of super C++ framework, I suppose? ;)
Jul 06 20:59:39 <codeslaw> its all about performance, access to the graphics chip, etc
Jul 06 20:59:58 <elyon> That's what I was thinking in regards to assembly on my old calculator
Jul 06 21:00:06 <codeslaw> ya, but if you get too high level, you kind of miss out on the low level performance boost
Jul 06 21:00:13 <elyon> The assembly games were mario brothers, tetris, stuff like that.
Jul 06 21:00:28 <codeslaw> ya i played them on my ti-86
Jul 06 21:00:34 <elyon> But you could still do games without it. It was a lot faster to develop, and could be done on the device (which I miss sometimes)
Jul 06 21:00:54 <codeslaw> i wrote a snake clone, and maze solver in tiBasic
Jul 06 21:01:38 <elyon> I had a couple text-based RPG games, and some others I can't remember right now :)
Jul 06 21:02:22 <elyon> "up" You see an open clearing, with a small squirrel, gathering nuts. What do you do? Fight? Run? Go East, Go West
Jul 06 21:02:38 <elyon> Had the whole battle system and everything :)
Jul 06 21:03:23 <elyon> So how do you get animations to work reasonably in Javascript? You use absolute positioning for everything?
Jul 06 21:03:38 <elyon> setInterval to update your object positions?
Jul 06 21:05:46 <codeslaw> ya i work with setInterval
Jul 06 21:05:53 <codeslaw> and absolute
Jul 06 21:06:29 <codeslaw> only done a few simple DOM animations, which do work nicely, but canvas is the core of my only currently launched app
Jul 06 21:06:58 <elyon> In BibleReader, you can swipe horizontally to progress to the next or previous chapter
Jul 06 21:07:23 <elyon> I would love to be able to animate the body content left or right when that occurs, but JS doesn't seem to have a way to animate objects from where they are
Jul 06 21:07:33 <elyon> I guess I could try and animate a negative margin, or something?
Jul 06 21:07:58 <elyon> But then I can't really instantiate new widget instances, so maybe I'm better off with the cross-fade transition
Jul 06 21:08:06 <codeslaw> left,top == x,y
Jul 06 21:08:08 <elyon> Just ran into some nasty bugs with the WebView widget on the Pixi
Jul 06 21:08:36 <halfhalo_class> its a pixi, no one cares about it
Jul 06 21:08:36 <elyon> Apparently you can't push a new scene with another WebView widget without it silently failing
Jul 06 21:08:38 <appamajig> hey codeslaw, what app do you have launched? (you mentioned it) just curious...
Jul 06 21:08:40 <elyon> Depending on your app
Jul 06 21:08:46 <elyon> Paintr Lite, right?
Jul 06 21:08:48 <codeslaw> appamajig: paintr lite
Jul 06 21:09:01 <appamajig> ah, ok
Jul 06 21:09:10 <elyon> I guess ...
Jul 06 21:09:13 <appamajig> I was thinking of someone else... lol ignore me :)
Jul 06 21:09:21 <codeslaw> no worries
Jul 06 21:09:21 <elyon> Part of me almost wants to use C++, so I can be a part of the new PDK contest
Jul 06 21:09:33 <elyon> But that might be impractical depending upon the game
Jul 06 21:09:33 <codeslaw> its enticing
Jul 06 21:09:51 <elyon> For example, lets say it was a game which could be done text-based
Jul 06 21:10:07 <elyon> You throw up some graphics for your character or the other character, but it's decision based, not action
Jul 06 21:10:20 <elyon> It probably would be easier to write in JS, but you aren't eligible for a contest :)
Jul 06 21:10:30 <halfhalo_class> I want the new sony z
Jul 06 21:10:39 <halfhalo_class> Someone buy me it
Jul 06 21:10:44 <elyon> Is that the one that's super thin?
Jul 06 21:10:47 <elyon> Or is that the X?
Jul 06 21:11:09 <codeslaw> this PDK contest will see a lot of competition from iPhone ports, i believe
Jul 06 21:11:21 <halfhalo_class> its the one with the i7, 1080p screen, optimus gpu, multiple ssd's, all in a 13.3" body
Jul 06 21:11:51 <elyon> cool
Jul 06 21:12:36 <elyon> I'm glad for the new contest, though, because if we get more games it will be more fun for everyone
Jul 06 21:12:46 <halfhalo_class> i want it just for the trhee ssd's in raid 0
Jul 06 21:12:56 <elyon> I've had a lot of fun with Smiles and some of the other games which were originally written for iPhone
Jul 06 21:13:15 <elyon> The Sony I'm using now has two HD's in a RAID, I believe
Jul 06 21:13:25 <elyon> But this came out before SSD was available
Jul 06 21:13:49 <elyon> It was the first to have Blu-Ray, which is kind of cool, but the software isn't compatible with any real discs, since they've continued to change the Blu-Ray spec
Jul 06 21:14:02 <elyon> So I have to spend $90 to buy software to use the drive if I want to
Jul 06 21:14:35 <elyon> codeslaw: What would you recommend if I wanted to get started with C++?
Jul 06 21:14:49 <halfhalo_class> I could have opted for a bluray drive on my t400, but i went with the hdd ultrabay instead
Jul 06 21:15:01 <elyon> What tools do you use, and how do you move past "hello world" to actual graphics?
Jul 06 21:15:18 <codeslaw> elyon: find a sample SDL app that shows basic blitting
Jul 06 21:15:28 <codeslaw> cant remember which one i saw
Jul 06 21:15:30 <codeslaw> but its basically:
Jul 06 21:15:39 <codeslaw> setup video mode (~3 lines of code)
Jul 06 21:15:58 <codeslaw> import an image to a texture (i can post you the method i used)
Jul 06 21:16:09 <codeslaw> set up main loop
Jul 06 21:16:33 <codeslaw> image to a surface**
Jul 06 21:16:36 <elyon> So you handle the redraw yourself every frame?
Jul 06 21:16:40 <codeslaw> textures are GL, surface is SDL
Jul 06 21:16:41 <codeslaw> yes
Jul 06 21:16:53 <appamajig> anyone have trouble updating to the v1.4.5 palm webos sdk plugin for eclipse?
Jul 06 21:17:03 <elyon> I had trouble with it on Windows
Jul 06 21:17:22 <elyon> The 64-bit version wants the 64-bit java plugin, but the Java download site installs the 32-bit plugin
Jul 06 21:17:31 <elyon> So I actually needed the 32-bit SDK for it to work
Jul 06 21:17:57 <elyon> Oh, Eclipse. Nevermind :)
Jul 06 21:17:58 <appamajig> hmmmm... I wonder if that's what's happening to me
Jul 06 21:18:01 <appamajig> ah, lol
Jul 06 21:18:06 <appamajig> you meant the sdk
Jul 06 21:18:10 <sugardave> webOS-info: BMyers
Jul 06 21:18:11 <webOS-info> somebody said BMyers was the guy ruling Guy Rules
Jul 06 21:18:22 <elyon> I couldn't launch the emulator anymore
Jul 06 21:18:55 <elyon> So are there any tools for C++, SDL, GL which provide code completion?
Jul 06 21:19:01 <elyon> Or do you just have to memorize everything?
Jul 06 21:19:14 <codeslaw> mmm, XCode for mac does code completeion
Jul 06 21:19:26 <appamajig> I wonder if you could use visual studio
Jul 06 21:19:29 <codeslaw> you can
Jul 06 21:19:36 <codeslaw> the tool chain is set up for it, i BELIEVE
Jul 06 21:19:45 <codeslaw> but can't confirm, because i dont use windows
Jul 06 21:19:55 <elyon> I was able to take the rotating cube example, and compile with VS C++
Jul 06 21:20:02 <elyon> But I had no idea what the code meant :)
Jul 06 21:20:54 <elyon> I started by trying to port an old Palm OS game, but I guess that was the WRONG way to learn C++ :)
Jul 06 21:21:05 <codeslaw> that example uses GL 2.0, and does its own runtime compilation of shader programs... much much more complicated than GL 1.1
Jul 06 21:21:19 <elyon> A lot of dependencies missing, etc.
Jul 06 21:21:41 <codeslaw> in fact, i wish palm would release more PDK examples, ones that use pure SDL, gl 1.1 and 2.0, SDL_Mixer, etc
Jul 06 21:22:29 <elyon> So do I buy an iPhone book, and publish for webOS instead?
Jul 06 21:22:50 <elyon> There's so many varieties of C and C++ out there, it's hard to know where to look for samples or advice
Jul 06 21:23:25 <elyon> I guess I just need to look for SDK and GL 1.1?
Jul 06 21:23:32 <elyon> If I'm doing a 2D app?
Jul 06 21:24:56 <elyon> Thanks again for all your help. It helps that you're familiar with Flash, because it helps me think out loud
Jul 06 21:25:30 <elyon> A lot of people don't know what Flash is like as a development environment, so they just blindly say that I should give it up and use something else
Jul 06 21:25:42 <elyon> I kind of think that most people don't know what they're missing when they talk about expectations
Jul 06 21:25:50 <elyon> Like you should expect a game to take months
Jul 06 21:25:55 <elyon> When I know it can be done in days or hours
Jul 06 21:27:57 <elyon> Okay, gotta go
Jul 06 21:28:17 <elyon> Thanks again!
Jul 06 21:29:07 <discombobulate> hrm
Jul 06 21:32:57 <codeslaw> no prob
Jul 06 21:34:30 <MetaView> I wonder which old PalmOS game he did try to port...
Jul 06 21:34:34 <MetaView> g'night
Jul 06 21:51:39 <pandora--> wondering what version of webos will allow a Pre to boot in under 5 minutes?
Jul 06 21:51:41 <pandora--> stupid thing
Jul 06 21:51:52 <HattCzech_work> pandora--: good question
Jul 06 21:51:58 <HattCzech_work> hopefully 1.4.5 ;)
Jul 06 21:52:01 <pandora--> heh
Jul 06 21:52:31 <pandora--> it sucks when it reboots itself and i have to sit there staring at it forever so i can get back to whatever i was doing
Jul 06 21:53:24 <spdsktr> I usually forget what I was doing by the time it loads
Jul 06 21:53:47 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 06 21:53:48 <dawm|laptop> http://images.wildammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/did-you-hear-im-being-sued.jpg
Jul 06 21:54:07 <spdsktr> lol
Jul 06 21:54:15 <dawm|laptop> they started shooting scream4 here (michigan) today
Jul 06 21:57:40 <pandora--> hahahah
Jul 06 21:57:58 <pandora--> dawm|laptop: is there a lot of filming stuff in michigan?
Jul 06 21:58:08 <dawm|laptop> lately yes
Jul 06 21:58:15 <dawm|laptop> youth in revolt was shot here
Jul 06 21:58:29 <dawm|laptop> parts of transformers 1
Jul 06 21:58:48 <dawm|laptop> but this was on the news, so i figured it was newsworthy
Jul 06 21:59:30 <oilsworkn> lol
Jul 06 21:59:33 <dohtem> How was Youth in Revolt?  I wanted to see that.
Jul 06 21:59:34 <codeslaw> http://images.wildammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/did-you-hear-im-being-sued.jpg
Jul 06 21:59:38 <codeslaw> oops
Jul 06 21:59:42 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 06 21:59:43 <codeslaw> meant to paste that elsewhere!
Jul 06 21:59:50 <codeslaw> hilarious
Jul 06 21:59:55 <oilsworkn> haha
Jul 06 22:00:57 <dawm|laptop> from a recent conversation, i hear apple developers are putting ads in paid apps now?
Jul 06 22:01:32 <oilsworkn> lol
Jul 06 22:01:45 <dawm|laptop> you just paid X for your shiny new ipad, you pay X a month for 3g on it, you just paid X for X app and now you get to sit thru a fullscreen ad that you cannot skip.. FTL
Jul 06 22:02:02 <codeslaw> fail
Jul 06 22:02:14 <pandora--> nice
Jul 06 22:02:17 <pandora--> yay apple.
Jul 06 22:02:37 <pandora--> please iphone users... go buy an android phone.
Jul 06 22:02:52 <dawm|laptop> well technicall.. android has it worse
Jul 06 22:03:04 <dawm|laptop> the entire OS is an ad for google
Jul 06 22:03:06 <oilsworkn> let the sheeple stick with whats popular
Jul 06 22:03:51 <dawm|laptop> wanna hear something weird i found out last night digging around in 1.4.5
Jul 06 22:04:02 <dawm|laptop> bing and yahoo have been added to the universal search
Jul 06 22:04:09 <dawm|laptop> but they werent added to the UI
Jul 06 22:04:13 * oilsworkn turns on text-to-speech and listens in
Jul 06 22:04:39 <dawm|laptop> a 2 line patch can bring em out
Jul 06 22:06:07 <pandora--> dawm|laptop: no shit?
Jul 06 22:06:13 <dawm|laptop> yah
Jul 06 22:06:42 <pandora--> oilsworkn: text to speech? at work?
Jul 06 22:06:51 <dawm|laptop> http://twitpic.com/22tq8q
Jul 06 22:06:54 <pandora--> giant tittie balls
Jul 06 22:06:59 <dawm|laptop> theres a sshot of it enabled (manually)
Jul 06 22:07:14 * oilsworkn was making a joke at "wanna _hear_ something weird"
Jul 06 22:07:23 <pandora--> damn!
Jul 06 22:07:26 <oilsworkn> ill accept it wasn't very funny
Jul 06 22:07:39 <pandora--> i was hoping to get you some cubical action
Jul 06 22:07:42 <oilsworkn> not to mention late
Jul 06 22:07:54 <dawm|laptop> i gotta read up on how to make/submit a patch to preware
Jul 06 22:08:00 <pandora--> dawm|laptop: damn, that's cool. are they functional? or just UI?
Jul 06 22:08:07 <dawm|laptop> functional
Jul 06 22:08:51 <dawm|laptop> i didnt look in the web browser code, but i know you cannot select anything other than google, but it could be the same deal
Jul 06 22:09:19 <dawm|laptop> unfinished or disabled
Jul 06 22:10:22 <pandora--> weird
Jul 06 22:11:32 <dawm|laptop> so is palm still on holiday?
Jul 06 22:18:44 <Roy-Pre1011> You know what sucks?  Setting the support info 53,000 times for apps distributed to foreign countries.
Jul 06 22:19:13 <pandora--> hahha i know
Jul 06 22:22:08 <dawm|laptop> yeah i hate it
Jul 06 22:32:51 <dohtem> yay, verizon shipped my new touchstone charger
Jul 06 22:35:24 <dawm|laptop> heh
Jul 06 22:35:31 <dawm|laptop> i havent even taken mine out of the pacakge
Jul 06 22:35:41 <dawm|laptop> rather, the 2nd one i got last week from the amazon sale
Jul 06 22:37:03 <hemna> Roy-Pre1011, heh, I hated that as well, so I just removed all the other countries from my app.   It's stupid really.
Jul 06 22:37:19 <hemna> major pita
Jul 06 22:41:15 <dawm|laptop> nasa mmorpg?
Jul 06 22:41:35 <dawm|laptop> http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/705908/NASA-Launches-New-MMORPG-Moonbase-Alpha.html
Jul 06 22:50:24 <sugardave> woohoo...managed to move most of this oAuth logic to outside my scenes
Jul 06 22:55:57 <spdsktr> wow, app updates were weak today
Jul 06 23:14:16 <ifeanyi_> Hey everyone I'm new to this channel and IRC pretty much. I have a question for webos devs out there. I'm adding an embedded map to my app and I'll like to emulate the blinking location indicator in palm's map app but I have no idea how to configure this. I'm using google maps, v3 with 'sensor=true'. Does anyone know how to achieve this?
Jul 06 23:16:08 <jhojho> ~seen chuqui
Jul 06 23:23:30 <sugardave> webOS-info: seen chuqui
Jul 06 23:23:30 <webOS-info> chuqui was last seen on #webos 2 hours, 58 minutes and 1 seconds ago, saying: cool. look's lik ethe shiva game engine's in beta: http://www.precentral.net/stonestrips-shiva-19-3d-game-engine-hits-beta-adds-support-webos [Tue Jul  6 16:25:29 2010]
Jul 06 23:24:01 <sugardave> ifeanyi_: I haven't played with maps yet
Jul 06 23:24:18 <sugardave> webOS-info: seen lyht
Jul 06 23:24:18 <webOS-info> I haven't seen 'lyht', sugardave
Jul 06 23:27:10 <dohtem> Using Ares, I have a button at the bottom of my screen that always gets pushed off the screen in landscape mode.  How do I force it to always show up at the bottom regardless or orientation?
Jul 06 23:30:07 <Roy-Pre1011> dohtem: You'll need to use a little css action.
Jul 06 23:30:53 <Roy-Pre101> At least, I think so.  I haven't figured out how to do it in Ares if you don't.
Jul 06 23:37:33 <discombobulate> set the layoutKind as hbox
Jul 06 23:37:43 <discombobulate> then set the button verticalAlign to bottom
Jul 06 23:37:49 <discombobulate> other than that, i got nothing
Jul 06 23:43:45 <HattCzech_work> adios, all
Jul 06 23:44:00 <discombobulate> later Hatt
Jul 06 23:58:32 <haeffb> sugardave: ping
Jul 07 00:00:16 <dawm|laptop> set the button position absolute
Jul 07 00:00:28 <dawm|laptop> altho youll have to set it absolute for both orientations tho
Jul 07 00:00:42 <dawm|laptop> but 100px from the top will always bee 100px from the top
Jul 07 00:01:24 <dawm|laptop> you could do whatever the button height is in px from the bottom in css
Jul 07 00:01:39 <dawm|laptop> bottom: 69px;   in CSS
Jul 07 00:11:30 <dohtem> whoa, I was afk.  Thanks for the tips, Roy-Pre101, discombobulate & dawm|laptop.
Jul 07 00:11:43 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 07 00:18:53 <discombobulate> which one worked? for future reference
Jul 07 00:22:40 <discombobulate> wheres my coke rewards update
Jul 07 00:22:52 <dawm|laptop> 'ready for review'
Jul 07 00:23:02 <discombobulate> my app was right below the my coke rewards app in the 'hot apps' list in the app catalog
Jul 07 00:23:04 <discombobulate> i felt special
Jul 07 00:23:24 <dawm|laptop> i can email you the update thats newer than whats waiting for review if you want
Jul 07 00:23:47 <discombobulate> it's cool.. i'll let the pre handle it whenever.. i hit my quota for the week anyways.. thanks though
Jul 07 00:24:00 <discombobulate> let me know if you need codes for testing, i can snap up some pics and send 'em
Jul 07 00:24:52 <dawm|laptop> i fixed the submission bug, so as long as coke doesnt kill their xmlrpc api, the only updates will be ui tweaks
Jul 07 00:25:42 <discombobulate> cool
Jul 07 00:26:01 <haeffb> is there any way to simulate a menu-fade image with CSS?
Jul 07 00:27:28 <haeffb> like going from fully transparent to opaque in a few pixels in the y-direction?
Jul 07 00:28:06 <sugardave> lame, javascript doesn't like '-' in property names when you use object notation
Jul 07 00:28:23 <haeffb> really?
Jul 07 00:28:33 <sugardave> at least not if it's in responseJSON
Jul 07 00:28:47 <sugardave> responseJSON.json-result is no
Jul 07 00:28:58 <sugardave> responseJSON['json-result'] is yes
Jul 07 00:31:27 <haeffb> responseJSON.json - result
Jul 07 00:31:30 <haeffb> - is an operator
Jul 07 00:32:10 <haeffb> watch is on the way via USPS
Jul 07 00:34:00 <haeffb> so, I've got my custom background color, but am using a .png for the command menu-fade. I'd prefere to avoid making new .png's for other colors if there's a CSS way to get a div to display a gradient in transpaency
Jul 07 00:34:15 <haeffb> as if that makes any sense.
Jul 07 00:34:17 <sugardave> cool, can't wait to sport my new watch
Jul 07 00:34:21 <sugardave> webOS-info: Dr. Pepper
Jul 07 00:34:21 * webOS-info pours you a frosty one.
Jul 07 00:34:23 <haeffb> webOS-info: sugardave
Jul 07 00:34:24 <webOS-info> sugardave is an enigma
Jul 07 00:34:42 <dawm|laptop> haeffb, that would be an alpha gradient.. dont think its possible with css unless you use an image of the fade
Jul 07 00:35:29 <haeffb> dawm|laptop: which limits me to whatever colors I choose to create the .pngs... bummer
Jul 07 00:35:41 <dawm|laptop> yep
Jul 07 00:36:04 <dawm|laptop> wait
Jul 07 00:36:33 <haeffb> so what colors should I do? legal pad theme. I have pale yellow. blue, green, pink, white, gray?
Jul 07 00:36:40 <dawm|laptop> http://webkit.org/blog/175/introducing-css-gradients/
Jul 07 00:38:19 <dawm|laptop> rgba allows for alpha
Jul 07 00:38:25 <sugardave> not sure if our webkit supports it
Jul 07 00:38:38 <dawm|laptop> pull up this url in the browser
Jul 07 00:38:39 <dawm|laptop> http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/LayoutTests//fast/gradients/simple-gradients.html?format=raw
Jul 07 00:39:03 <dawm|laptop> its a sample, altho the linear gradients dont use alpha
Jul 07 00:39:11 <dawm|laptop> the radial does tho
Jul 07 00:39:59 <dawm|laptop> yah
Jul 07 00:40:05 <dawm|laptop> not supported ;p
Jul 07 00:40:20 <haeffb> firefox don't support it...
Jul 07 00:40:28 <dawm|laptop> firefox isnt webkit
Jul 07 00:40:38 <dawm|laptop> chrome, or safari
Jul 07 00:41:45 <dawm|laptop> wow
Jul 07 00:41:47 <dawm|laptop> http://girliemac.com/sandbox/button.html
Jul 07 00:41:54 <dawm|laptop> aqua button in pure css?
Jul 07 00:42:31 <haeffb> "The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: webkit-gradient."
Jul 07 00:42:42 <dawm|laptop> heh
Jul 07 00:42:47 <dawm|laptop> i did webkit alpha gradient
Jul 07 00:43:06 <haeffb> that was on dev forums.
Jul 07 00:43:11 <dawm|laptop> apparently that last link should work in firefox
Jul 07 00:43:13 <dawm|laptop> http://girliemac.com/sandbox/button.html
Jul 07 00:43:24 <dawm|laptop> to give you an idea
Jul 07 00:43:30 <dawm|laptop> of wahts possible
Jul 07 00:43:34 <dawm|laptop> in the future ;p
Jul 07 00:43:55 <haeffb> awesome
Jul 07 00:44:14 <dawm|laptop> combination of gradient and border radii
Jul 07 00:45:53 <haeffb> http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1682&Itemid=19
Jul 07 00:45:53 <haeffb> not so much for gradient
Jul 07 00:48:21 <dawm|laptop> hrm
Jul 07 00:48:41 <dawm|laptop> i wonder why i couldnt get menu item templates working last night, looking at the refcode, its definately in there
Jul 07 00:49:54 <haeffb> what sort of templates?
Jul 07 00:50:20 <dawm|laptop> custom content in a  menu item
Jul 07 00:50:35 <dawm|laptop> was trying to make a item in m app menu like the system menu (which is really a list)
Jul 07 00:50:45 <haeffb> like app menu, submenu, etc?
Jul 07 00:50:55 <dawm|laptop> yah
Jul 07 00:51:09 <dawm|laptop> i dislike having a 'drawer' for toggles
Jul 07 00:51:21 <haeffb> like Bluetooth     OFF ?
Jul 07 00:51:29 <dawm|laptop> yeah
Jul 07 00:51:39 <dawm|laptop> 1 item that means on/off
Jul 07 00:51:50 <dawm|laptop> rather than 3 items (parent) and on, off
Jul 07 00:52:43 * haeffb looking at menu docs
Jul 07 00:53:09 <dawm|laptop> it says you just give it template: 'path/to/templatefile'
Jul 07 00:53:13 <dawm|laptop> but that didnt work heh
Jul 07 00:55:32 <haeffb> well...somebody's gotta make a templatefile... :)
Jul 07 00:55:51 <dawm|laptop> og\h i did
Jul 07 00:55:55 <dawm|laptop> .... oh i did
Jul 07 00:56:17 <kesne> Hey all!
Jul 07 00:56:31 <haeffb> ...and do it right...
Jul 07 00:56:38 <EmmettLollis> is there a way to track the number of apps downloaded?
Jul 07 00:56:43 <haeffb> webOS-info: kesne
Jul 07 00:56:43 <webOS-info> kesne is, like, friends with everybody
Jul 07 00:56:51 <dawm|laptop> EmmettLollis:  you can use metrix
Jul 07 00:56:56 <haeffb> in that case, hi, kesne!
Jul 07 00:57:01 <dawm|laptop> metrix.webosroundup.com
Jul 07 00:57:07 <dawm|laptop> but you have to add some code to your app
Jul 07 00:57:21 <haeffb> or you can look at "MyApps" on palm's dev website
Jul 07 00:57:23 <dawm|laptop> it 'calls home'
Jul 07 00:57:30 <EmmettLollis> cool
Jul 07 00:57:31 <kesne> webos-info: dawm
Jul 07 00:57:31 <webOS-info> dawm is the lead developer of Brighthouse Labs.
Jul 07 00:57:35 <haeffb> assumes you trust Palm
Jul 07 00:57:37 <dawm|laptop> WHAT?!
Jul 07 00:57:42 <kesne> hahaha
Jul 07 00:57:45 <haeffb> dawm?!?!?!?!
Jul 07 00:57:45 <dawm|laptop> change that shit
Jul 07 00:57:50 <dawm|laptop> NOOO
Jul 07 00:57:53 <dawm|laptop> Biocandy Labs
Jul 07 00:58:01 <kesne> Bwahahaha
Jul 07 00:58:05 * haeffb just popped a nice ribeye into the smoker
Jul 07 00:58:10 <dawm|laptop> not funny
Jul 07 00:58:44 <kesne> I think it's very very funny
Jul 07 00:59:36 <dawm|laptop> no
Jul 07 00:59:49 <haeffb> what is dawm?
Jul 07 01:00:05 <dawm|laptop> dawm = dom = domino = old bbs handle
Jul 07 01:00:57 <sugardave> webOS-info: dawm
Jul 07 01:00:57 <webOS-info> sugardave: excuse me?
Jul 07 01:01:09 <kesne> dawm = nawm = nom
Jul 07 01:01:20 <kesne> webos-info: you heard him, dawm
Jul 07 01:01:20 <webOS-info> kesne: i'm not following you...
Jul 07 01:01:26 <kesne> webos-info: dawm!
Jul 07 01:01:26 <webOS-info> dawm is, like, a big fan and supporter of Brighthouse Labs, and was the person that pitched the idea of separate apps for every team
Jul 07 01:01:34 <EmmettLollis> nice, my auto-responder is auto-marked as junk email
Jul 07 01:01:46 <haeffb>  funkatron
Jul 07 01:01:46 <haeffb> I want to swap my SIM between my pre and my iphone 4. Tell me what to do
Jul 07 01:01:52 <haeffb>  funkatron
Jul 07 01:01:52 <haeffb> I want to swap my SIM between my pre and my iphone 4. Tell me what to do
Jul 07 01:02:47 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 07 01:02:51 <kesne> omnomnom
Jul 07 01:03:30 <dawm|laptop> kesne:?
Jul 07 01:03:42 <dawm|laptop> you never sent me an update..
Jul 07 01:03:42 <kesne> webos-info: dawm
Jul 07 01:03:42 <webOS-info> it has been said that dawm is the founder of Biocandy Labs, a small company focused on producing mobile pornography applications.
Jul 07 01:03:48 <kesne> Oh, right
Jul 07 01:04:16 <kesne> Remind me to send that to you... sometime
Jul 07 01:04:30 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 07 01:05:11 <kesne> dawm: Hey, anyway I can work in your company?
Jul 07 01:05:25 <kesne> seems like you do stuff that's right up my alley.
Jul 07 01:05:27 <dawm|laptop> can you pump out craptacular apps?
Jul 07 01:05:39 <dawm|laptop> theres a quota of 10 a week
Jul 07 01:05:53 <dawm|laptop> now that theres no submission fee im thinking of upping that quota
Jul 07 01:05:56 <EmmettLollis> only 10?
Jul 07 01:07:25 <kesne> Back when I worked for brighthouse, I pumped out 7 a day
Jul 07 01:07:35 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 07 01:11:00 * rwhitby considers putting /ignore on webOS-info until the kids are finished playing with it :)
Jul 07 01:13:03 * haeffb figures rwhitby will have it on ignore forever
Jul 07 01:13:25 <sugardave> +1
Jul 07 01:14:50 <dawm|laptop> haeffb: i figured out a way to do what i wanted with the app menu
Jul 07 01:15:08 <dawm|laptop> im just applying an iconPath: and removing it when off
Jul 07 01:15:16 <dawm|laptop> throws a checkmark up
Jul 07 01:15:47 <dawm|laptop> i wonder
Jul 07 01:16:23 <dawm|laptop> does javascript have associative arrays?
Jul 07 01:16:44 <sugardave> dawm|laptop: yes
Jul 07 01:17:04 <sugardave> array['thisIndex'] = whatever;
Jul 07 01:17:24 <dawm|laptop> ok how would i do so in a multi item syntax
Jul 07 01:17:50 <dawm|laptop> array = [ obj,obj2,'named'=obj3] ?
Jul 07 01:18:13 <sugardave> trying to remember
Jul 07 01:18:19 <sugardave> (i.e. about to google it)
Jul 07 01:18:27 <dawm|laptop> im doing so now
Jul 07 01:18:32 <discombobulate> heh
Jul 07 01:19:32 <sugardave> dawm|laptop: one question, why won't a regular object work?
Jul 07 01:19:38 <Roy-Pre101> Hmm, good idea!
Jul 07 01:19:38 <haeffb> w/o templates?
Jul 07 01:19:38 <haeffb> that's easy enuf
Jul 07 01:19:38 <haeffb> see Prototype hash
Jul 07 01:19:38 <sugardave> you can deal with it like an array
Jul 07 01:19:58 <dawm|laptop> im just getting sick of doing things like this.appModel.items[2]
Jul 07 01:20:11 <dawm|laptop> if i change the order i gotta dig thru and fix the calls
Jul 07 01:20:26 <dawm|laptop> would rather just use a named reference to the row
Jul 07 01:20:57 <dawm|laptop> like this.appModel.items['sound']
Jul 07 01:21:37 <ACarback> hello
Jul 07 01:22:38 * haeffb doesn't think that will work...
Jul 07 01:22:42 <haeffb> ...but give it a shot and let us know what happens
Jul 07 01:22:48 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 07 01:22:49 <haeffb> hi ACarback
Jul 07 01:23:10 <dawm|laptop> php > js ;P
Jul 07 01:23:29 <haeffb> webOS-info: dawm is also the official tester for all things that may not work
Jul 07 01:23:29 <webOS-info> okay, haeffb.
Jul 07 01:23:47 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 07 01:24:51 <dawm|laptop> Mojo.appPath ?
Jul 07 01:24:55 <dawm|laptop> or did i make that up
Jul 07 01:24:58 <ACarback> why does list tap return the item tapped rather than the array index of the item tapped?
Jul 07 01:26:05 <sugardave> dawm|laptop: found it
Jul 07 01:26:06 <haeffb> sounds right
Jul 07 01:26:20 <haeffb> ACarback: it should return both
Jul 07 01:26:31 <haeffb> event.index ?
Jul 07 01:26:35 <sugardave> array["key": "value", "key2": "value2"]
Jul 07 01:26:53 <dawm|laptop> tried that
Jul 07 01:26:55 <dawm|laptop> doesnt happen
Jul 07 01:27:07 <dawm|laptop> see assoc arrays dont really exist in js
Jul 07 01:27:15 <dawm|laptop> they're just objects in disguse
Jul 07 01:27:24 <sugardave> oh oops, thought that was a [
Jul 07 01:27:26 <sugardave> it's a {
Jul 07 01:27:43 <dawm|laptop> yeh then its an object ;p
Jul 07 01:27:59 <ACarback> i am a fool. i keep believing the documentation
Jul 07 01:28:15 <dawm|laptop> so yah whenever i use menu template, it never pulls the template so its a dead item
Jul 07 01:28:26 <sugardave> well, you could just do a block of code to create the associative version of the array, then items = it, but that sucks, too
Jul 07 01:28:28 <haeffb> webOS-info: acarback is a fool who keeps believing the docs
Jul 07 01:28:28 <webOS-info> i haven't a clue, haeffb
Jul 07 01:28:40 <ACarback> list tap does indeed return event.index and event.item
Jul 07 01:28:52 <sugardave> webOS-info: ACarback is still believing the documentation after all this time
Jul 07 01:28:52 <webOS-info> OK, sugardave.
Jul 07 01:28:58 <dawm|laptop> dave not worth it heh
Jul 07 01:29:11 <dawm|laptop> id be better off making another array to lookup the index
Jul 07 01:29:29 <dawm|laptop> and then its more work than really needed
Jul 07 01:30:25 <dawm|laptop> so for list templates its 'viewDir/templateName-noExtension' right?
Jul 07 01:30:37 <sugardave> yah
Jul 07 01:30:39 <sugardave> vo
Jul 07 01:30:54 <dawm|laptop> vo?
Jul 07 01:31:06 <sugardave> nothing
Jul 07 01:31:15 <dawm|laptop> oh ok thought maybe you meant no
Jul 07 01:31:39 <haeffb> vo vo vo!
Jul 07 01:33:34 <dawm|laptop> hey
Jul 07 01:33:49 <dawm|laptop> WebOS 1.4.3 was released last year July 30 2009
Jul 07 01:34:01 <dawm|laptop> codename Carbon 14
Jul 07 01:34:44 <dawm|laptop> http://webos.riaforge.org/
Jul 07 01:35:06 <oil> lol
Jul 07 01:36:26 <dawm|laptop> uses web 2.0 css technology..
Jul 07 01:36:29 <dawm|laptop> but looks like BUTT
Jul 07 01:46:16 <dawm|laptop> so i believe that templates for the menus dont apply to the app menu
Jul 07 01:52:08 <LoneStar99> good evening everyone
Jul 07 01:53:51 <dkirker> good evening LoneStar99
Jul 07 01:54:26 <LoneStar99> hi dkirker
Jul 07 01:55:53 <haeffb> webOS-info LoneStar99
Jul 07 01:55:53 <webOS-info> haeffb: excuse me?
Jul 07 01:55:57 <haeffb> figures
Jul 07 01:56:10 <dawm|laptop> lol
Jul 07 01:57:12 <LoneStar99> hello haeffb
Jul 07 01:57:17 <dawm|laptop> discombobulate:  ok so far.. ive fixed the xml bug (1.0.2) and added saving of the password, auto-login, logout, and a app menu option for sound toggle
Jul 07 01:57:32 <dawm|laptop> i think thats all the requests except for the stupid multiple entries one
Jul 07 01:58:12 <LoneStar99> do anyone of yous know how to change the header text dynamically?
Jul 07 01:58:59 <LoneStar99> header text of app menu
Jul 07 01:59:21 <dawm|laptop> oh i dunno
Jul 07 01:59:46 <LoneStar99> but it should be possible i assume
Jul 07 02:00:05 <dawm|laptop> yeah
Jul 07 02:00:14 <dawm|laptop> the whole UI is html/css supposidly
Jul 07 02:00:21 <halfhalo> off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of node.js irc bot!
Jul 07 02:00:31 <dawm|laptop> but i dont think you will be able to
Jul 07 02:00:35 <halfhalo> Which shall have one specific purpose
Jul 07 02:00:50 <dawm|laptop> i dont recall seeing anything but the view html in the inspector
Jul 07 02:01:09 <haeffb> support email for Agenda 0.6.4... "My faq doesn't work."
Jul 07 02:01:25 * haeffb taking suggestions for an appropriate response
Jul 07 02:02:46 <sugardave> "I'm sorry, that FAQ seems to have developed a sense of entitlement."
Jul 07 02:02:55 <discombobulate> dawn; right on. above and beyond.
Jul 07 02:04:16 * haeffb shudders to think of what wrath halfhalo's bot will bring...
Jul 07 02:05:13 * haeffb also finds it amusing that my Pre can grab yahoo email, but Thunderbird cannot.
Jul 07 02:05:17 <dawm|laptop> a ban
Jul 07 02:05:20 <halfhalo> You'll like it, I swear
Jul 07 02:05:30 <halfhalo> Its for good purposes
Jul 07 02:05:33 <halfhalo> I promise
Jul 07 02:05:44 <dkirker> oooo, a new bot?!!
Jul 07 02:06:01 <discombobulate> but does it come with a super cool vhost?!
Jul 07 02:08:10 <halfhalo> no, not yet at least
Jul 07 02:08:22 <sugardave> we're going from bot-poor to bot-rich in record time
Jul 07 02:08:25 <halfhalo> starting from almost scratch on this
Jul 07 02:08:32 <halfhalo> But its only for a single purpose
Jul 07 02:10:16 <halfhalo> Main issue is db right now
Jul 07 02:10:24 <halfhalo> Dunno wat to use for it
Jul 07 02:11:27 <dawm|laptop> someone needs to get gizmodo to update this article
Jul 07 02:11:28 <dawm|laptop> http://gizmodo.com/5317216/palm-webos-mojo-sdk-sadly-impotent-badass-games-are-impossible
Jul 07 02:11:51 <discombobulate> i nominate you
Jul 07 02:11:59 <dawm|laptop> no thanks
Jul 07 02:12:11 <ACarback> I'm pretty sure you volunteered yourself
Jul 07 02:12:11 <discombobulate> too late
Jul 07 02:12:20 <dawm|laptop> oh no i didnt
Jul 07 02:13:48 <rwhitby> all blog posts are be definition wrong and out of date
Jul 07 02:13:55 <rwhitby> s/be/by/
Jul 07 02:15:11 <pandora--> dawm|laptop: weird, they don't talk about PDK??
Jul 07 02:15:20 <dawm|laptop> wasnt around back then
Jul 07 02:16:02 <pandora--> "The other gimpage, which is somewhat inexplicable, is that Palm limits polling of accelerometer data to 4Hz, or 4 samples a second"
Jul 07 02:16:08 <pandora--> incorrect
Jul 07 02:16:13 <rwhitby> was correct then
Jul 07 02:16:18 <pandora--> yea, definitely an outdated article :)
Jul 07 02:16:34 <dawm|laptop> its almost a year old
Jul 07 02:16:40 <rwhitby> it's like saying "the iphone does not have cut and paste"
Jul 07 02:16:52 <rwhitby> true then, not now.
Jul 07 02:16:59 <dawm|laptop> but it came up a search for webos mojo
Jul 07 02:17:09 <pandora--> thats some good SEO...
Jul 07 02:17:17 <rwhitby> sure, the more idiotic and wrong an article is, the more likely a search will find it.
Jul 07 02:17:17 <dawm|laptop> and they updated it once, they should update it again
Jul 07 02:17:30 <halfhalo> Hmmm
Jul 07 02:17:38 <halfhalo> sql lite or to not sql lite...
Jul 07 02:17:38 <rwhitby> I should coin that as Whitby's Law of the internet
Jul 07 02:17:44 <dawm|laptop> cookies
Jul 07 02:18:49 <halfhalo> Weeee autobuild on git commit!
Jul 07 02:18:53 <ACarback> My app has two reviews so far. Neither person understands the point of my app. 1 gave it 5 starts. 1 gave it 0 starts. :-P
Jul 07 02:19:50 <halfhalo> gogo make install
Jul 07 02:23:56 <dawm|laptop> what app
Jul 07 02:24:13 <dawm|laptop> anyone read the reviews for the adora bobble head app?
Jul 07 02:24:18 <dawm|laptop> =O!
Jul 07 02:26:46 <funkatron> not yet. I was afraid to
Jul 07 02:28:14 <funkatron> oh lord.
Jul 07 02:29:13 <halfhalo> link?
Jul 07 02:32:42 <dawm|laptop> lemme find the app name
Jul 07 02:33:25 <dawm|laptop> http://www.cyrket.com/p/palm/com.ctladvance.bobbleheadadora/
Jul 07 02:33:29 <dawm|laptop> you can read the comments there
Jul 07 02:33:44 <ACarback> the comments are .... uh.... interesting
Jul 07 02:34:08 <dawm|laptop> starts off clean
Jul 07 02:34:11 <dawm|laptop> and gets wrose
Jul 07 02:40:16 <dawm|laptop> gnight folks
Jul 07 02:49:45 <halfhalo> wow...
Jul 07 02:49:47 <halfhalo> well then
Jul 07 02:54:05 <kesne> Hey all!
Jul 07 02:54:13 <kesne> webos-info: kesne
Jul 07 02:54:13 <webOS-info> i think kesne is a real tool.
Jul 07 02:54:20 <dkirker> hi kesne
Jul 07 02:54:57 <kesne> dkirker: hey
Jul 07 02:55:02 <kesne> Your name is funny
Jul 07 02:55:09 <dkirker> lol, thanks
Jul 07 02:55:11 <kesne> ACarback!
Jul 07 02:55:19 <ACarback> Hi Kesne
Jul 07 02:55:54 <Tibfib> hahahahahaha
Jul 07 02:55:58 <kesne> I need to finish this app
Jul 07 02:56:15 <kesne> tibfib!
Jul 07 02:56:16 <Tibfib> is there a way to see who set what?
Jul 07 02:56:27 <Tibfib> kesne: howdy kesne
Jul 07 02:56:28 <kesne> I don't think so
Jul 07 02:56:40 <kesne> What did it say about you
Jul 07 02:56:46 <Tibfib> webOS-info: tibfib
Jul 07 02:56:46 <webOS-info> Tibfib: excuse me?
Jul 07 02:57:09 <kesne> nothing...
Jul 07 02:57:11 <Tibfib> Guess not, he used to know something
Jul 07 02:57:14 <dkirker> is it case sensitive?
Jul 07 02:57:18 <Tibfib> nope
Jul 07 02:57:20 <dkirker> webOS-info: Tibfib
Jul 07 02:57:21 <webOS-info> dkirker: i'm not following you...
Jul 07 02:57:25 <dkirker> guess not
Jul 07 02:57:26 <Tibfib> webOS-info: KeSNe
Jul 07 02:57:26 <webOS-info> KeSNe is, like, the best developer that there is. Worship him
Jul 07 02:57:44 <dkirker> this css is making me cry :(
Jul 07 02:58:12 <Tibfib> webOS-info: css
Jul 07 02:58:12 <webOS-info> mwuahahahahah
Jul 07 02:58:24 <kesne> dkirker: CSS = sex
Jul 07 02:58:58 <Tibfib> webOS-info: css
Jul 07 02:58:58 <webOS-info> mwuahahahahah or <reply> css is terrible.
Jul 07 02:59:03 <Tibfib> dangit.
Jul 07 02:59:17 <kesne> webos-info: css is sex
Jul 07 02:59:17 <webOS-info> ...but css is <reply> css is terrible....
Jul 07 02:59:30 <Tibfib> webOS-info: css
Jul 07 02:59:30 <webOS-info> Tibfib: i'm not following you...
Jul 07 02:59:40 <kesne> webos-info: css
Jul 07 02:59:41 <webOS-info> css is probably sex
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 07 02:59:56 2010