**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 19 02:59:56 2010 Jul 19 03:01:13 * Anivrom is waiting for someone to shout out that there already is, then proceed to tell him how to do it Jul 19 03:01:23 :P! Jul 19 03:01:32 ... Jul 19 03:01:32 ... Jul 19 03:01:32 ... Jul 19 03:03:10 wtf my breakpoint in my setup AND activate isnt' tripping. Jul 19 03:05:18 Anivrom: Well, Palm internally has a build of valgrind for the phone Jul 19 03:05:41 * Anivrom does not know C++ Jul 19 03:05:44 A Palm employee posted at least some of the patches to the valgrind ml Jul 19 03:05:49 or anything closely associated with it Jul 19 03:05:52 oh, heh Jul 19 03:06:24 You should wait a while before looking at haxe then, it'll probably take us a month to get it to the point where you don't need/want to build your own stuff Jul 19 03:06:35 oh. Jul 19 03:06:40 Then I'll whip up an awesome Makefile for OS X users and we'll be set Jul 19 03:06:45 Yea cause I know AS3 so that's why I was interested Jul 19 03:06:53 s/a month/at least a month/ Jul 19 03:11:33 this.controller.get("snack" + i).src = ("images/icons/icon.png"); Wonder why it's throwing me a cannot read property .src error. I tho8ught you could mix and match strings and variables in the get command Jul 19 03:11:40 * haeffb needs a tutorial on how to change CSS style properties thru javascript Jul 19 03:11:41 Anyone have any insight on this subject? Jul 19 03:12:00 * Anivrom uses this.controller.get("cmdInventory").style.opacity = 1; Jul 19 03:12:27 this.controller.get('cmdProfile').style.position = "fixed"; Jul 19 03:12:27 this.controller.get('cmdProfile').style.zIndex = "1"; Jul 19 03:12:30 those all work Jul 19 03:12:40 So I would imagine it's good across the board Jul 19 03:12:45 * haeffb using a CSS style in many scenes & doesn't want to have to modify each scene Jul 19 03:12:48 nyone here using quattro adverts? Jul 19 03:13:32 haeffn - id.style.csstag = ""; Jul 19 03:13:38 haeffb Jul 19 03:14:00 this.controller.get is not actually required Jul 19 03:14:09 .... Jul 19 03:14:13 explain? Jul 19 03:14:31 so if I have div id="x" Jul 19 03:14:34 .mystyle {background-color: #dddddd;} Jul 19 03:14:42 x.style.display = "none"; Jul 19 03:15:16 so you would say Jul 19 03:15:35 id.style.background-color = "#dddddd"; Jul 19 03:15:45
Jul 19 03:15:49 is in each scene Jul 19 03:16:10 & I want to change mystyle globally within the app Jul 19 03:16:26 to use a different color Jul 19 03:20:42 * torchie updates Jul 19 03:20:57 * torchie refresh Jul 19 03:22:09 * torchie application updates are now available Jul 19 03:22:32 Anivrom: there is a debugger on the phone Jul 19 03:22:47 really? Jul 19 03:22:48 oh whoops, i was scrolled up Jul 19 03:22:52 did you figure it out Jul 19 03:22:55 nah Jul 19 03:23:11 you doing mojo right Jul 19 03:23:14 havent tried. I'm stumped on a few other issues before I tackle that one Jul 19 03:23:17 Ares Jul 19 03:23:31 oh that is even easier Jul 19 03:23:36 you can debug on the phone using ares Jul 19 03:23:44 Nope Jul 19 03:23:45 without having to ssh into the phone and run debug Jul 19 03:23:54 Emulator yes, phone no Jul 19 03:23:59 you sure? Jul 19 03:24:00 Doesn't connect to Ares Jul 19 03:24:02 Yea lol Jul 19 03:24:13 it has been a long time since i did ares Jul 19 03:24:21 well you can ssh into the phone or use novacom Jul 19 03:24:23 and run debug Jul 19 03:24:36 Clicking debug tab gives a red error Cannot connect to phone Jul 19 03:24:55 It's not the variable checking I care about Jul 19 03:24:59 It's the breakpoints Jul 19 03:25:44 Right now I use labels to output variables if I'm on the phone and I just breakpoint if I'm using emulator for really big conundrums Jul 19 03:27:18 I'm currently stuck on dynamically passing an object to the this.controller.get command via this line: Jul 19 03:27:18 this.controller.get("snack" + i). Jul 19 03:28:06 I thought it was possible but apparently I'm missing somethign Jul 19 03:28:36 wow inkscape loves it when I edit paths huh Jul 19 03:35:48 anyone here doing mobile advert? Jul 19 03:40:59 CTLAdvance: advertising (like, say, their apps) on mobile phones? Jul 19 03:41:18 well like using ads in your apps for making money Jul 19 03:41:26 like admob quattro Jul 19 03:41:53 oh... I want to look into it. Jul 19 03:42:04 But I'm not sure how people will respond Jul 19 03:42:27 I dont want people to leave bad reviews because they dont like ads in my app Jul 19 03:42:33 really if its free you have ads, if its not you dont Jul 19 03:42:33 Do people really make anything worth mentioning by adding admob advertising Jul 19 03:42:56 How much does anyone make per month with that? Jul 19 03:43:06 Well it depends Jul 19 03:43:16 Admob was good until google bought them Jul 19 03:43:21 then my fill rates tanked Jul 19 03:43:25 really? Jul 19 03:43:26 so looking into quatro Jul 19 03:43:28 yes Jul 19 03:43:41 I would have thought it would work out the other way Jul 19 03:44:02 I maintained a 50 - 9-% fill rate until google hit, then it dropped to ~10% Jul 19 03:44:11 50 - 90% Jul 19 03:44:57 yay, finally installed the newest SDK Jul 19 03:48:59 What is "fill rate"? Jul 19 03:51:28 Is that how many users actually see the ad? Jul 19 03:54:37 so fill rate Jul 19 03:54:56 fill rate is out of how many requests for ads, how many actually get delivered Jul 19 03:55:06 so its, ads delivered / total requests Jul 19 03:55:15 Hmm Jul 19 03:55:31 So that means that 90% of people might not even be receiving the ad, let alone clicking on it? Jul 19 03:55:34 (tapping) Jul 19 03:55:47 Almost seems like the ads are more profitable because it drives up app sales to get rid of them Jul 19 03:55:51 so for instance for admob I have one that has 123 requests and 3 deliveries, 3 ads actually showed up out of 123 requests Jul 19 03:55:51 nuisance factor Jul 19 03:56:15 3/123 = whatever Jul 19 03:56:21 that would be my % Jul 19 03:56:43 exactly Jul 19 03:56:50 so have your free version have ads Jul 19 03:56:56 Do you get paid anything based on fill rate, or is it only based on visits? Jul 19 03:57:06 they get to try the app etc etc and keep using it, or they can buy it to get rid of them Jul 19 03:57:07 I can't say I've ever used an ad in a game or app Jul 19 03:57:17 It's just kind of an eye sore Jul 19 03:57:24 so if only 3 people out of 123 get ads Jul 19 03:57:30 and only one clicks it Jul 19 03:57:40 then I only get paid for the one click Jul 19 03:58:35 hey everyone Jul 19 04:02:14 spdsktr: oh hey :P Jul 19 04:02:28 :) Jul 19 04:02:46 anyone know the app id of Verizon Navigator? Stuck on a Sprint Pre, but I need it Jul 19 04:06:37 how do I get it? Jul 19 04:08:30 well, you can view id's through Internals Jul 19 04:08:39 or by ssh Jul 19 04:08:47 com.palm.? Jul 19 04:09:15 :( I'm using a stock VZW pre. Jul 19 04:09:51 eh, ty anyways Jul 19 04:10:05 working on fixing the GPS issues on Verizon Jul 19 04:10:21 well, working around it anyways Jul 19 04:33:14 Anivrom, I know I'm behind here, but I'm confused by 'this.controller.get("something"+object) Jul 19 04:33:52 looks interesting - I've never done that Jul 19 04:34:01 Erm Jul 19 04:34:25 I have a loop and I want to assign .src depending on criteria in the loop. Jul 19 04:34:37 So I wanted to use the i counter Jul 19 04:34:59 something1 something2 etc are the names of my widgets Jul 19 04:35:05 you know? Jul 19 04:35:30 * BigBiff is slow to process Jul 19 04:36:21 for (i=0; i < game.inventory.snacks.length; i++) { Jul 19 04:36:21 switch (game.inventory.snacks[0].name) { Jul 19 04:36:21 case "apple": Jul 19 04:36:21 this.controller.get("snack3").firstChild.src = ("images/icons/apple.png"); Jul 19 04:36:21 break; Jul 19 04:36:22 } Jul 19 04:36:22 } Jul 19 04:36:23 Anyone know how the heck to clear a list? I just cannot get it to work... Jul 19 04:37:16 oops substitute snack3 with "snack" + i; Jul 19 04:39:03 I c Jul 19 04:39:12 wow, I was slow Jul 19 04:39:39 that code is a bit messed up cause I was testing specific situations. Jul 19 04:39:47 But yea apparently it's not possible to do what I want Jul 19 04:40:02 So I ahve to take a more hack-y ugly approach Jul 19 04:40:05 there's probably a way to do it Jul 19 04:40:29 escaping quotes or something, like for sql Jul 19 04:40:49 beyond me thoug Jul 19 04:40:51 h Jul 19 04:42:04 projectAlarum: how are you trying to clear? Jul 19 04:42:21 I've done that before Jul 19 04:42:32 this.controller.get ("myID" + index); should work Jul 19 04:42:39 Do they all have the right IDs? Jul 19 04:42:40 doesn't work. Jul 19 04:42:53 Erm yea it's Ares. Jul 19 04:43:04 Oh Jul 19 04:43:09 That might be it Jul 19 04:43:12 So giving ID's is easy Jul 19 04:43:13 ... Jul 19 04:43:21 Maybe it will let you iterate through an array? Jul 19 04:43:25 BigBiff: I want to clear a list before repopulating it, I've tried using this.runListModel.items.clear() ... But it doesn't work Jul 19 04:43:42 for (var i = 0; i < 10; i++) { ids.push ("myID" + i); } Jul 19 04:43:54 this.controller.get (ids[0]); Jul 19 04:44:13 this.runListModel.items = []; Jul 19 04:44:27 are you calling modelChanged() ? Jul 19 04:44:32 this.controller.modelChanged (this, this.runListModel); Jul 19 04:44:46 heh Jul 19 04:44:50 or this.list.mojo.noticeUpdatedItems (0, []); Jul 19 04:45:59 noticeUpdated works better I believe for omitting items. Jul 19 04:46:48 modelChanged may leave some phantom items Jul 19 04:48:43 wow, I gotta get up in 5 hours Jul 19 04:48:51 night all Jul 19 04:48:57 night Jul 19 04:51:20 Hmmm still not working... Jul 19 04:52:27 Oh well, I'll keep fightin it, thanks though Jul 19 04:58:28 noticeUpdatedItems works best when you've scrolled down the page Jul 19 04:58:49 Changing the model works reliably, but it wont display anything until you start scrolling again (at least, in my experience) Jul 19 04:58:58 Unless you're already at the top Jul 19 06:08:57 morning Jul 19 06:09:25 evening Jul 19 06:37:55 Good morning Jul 19 06:37:55 good morning hotdp Jul 19 06:38:18 Morning dekan Jul 19 06:41:05 Very good morning HotDP :) Jul 19 06:41:27 hehe what makes it "very" good? :) Jul 19 06:42:10 nothing make its "very" as such, just wishes u have a "very" gm ;) Jul 19 06:42:32 ohh thanks :D Was hopping for WebOS 2.0 news og Pre 2 Jul 19 06:42:49 morning hotdp Jul 19 06:42:49 How long does Palm take to approve an update to application for App catalog ? I've been waiting for it to be published since past 1 week now. I uploaded the update on 12th Jul 19 06:43:03 Updates have taken 1 day for me Jul 19 06:43:05 saggy>> sometimes it takes about 5 working days Jul 19 06:43:06 morning saggy Jul 19 06:43:06 apply 2 days Jul 19 06:43:15 saggy>> average 1 to 3 days Jul 19 06:43:29 if it takes too long, send an email to pdc@palm.com Jul 19 06:44:26 I canceled my first update 1.0.1 which look more than 5 days to approve rejection Jul 19 06:44:58 I did mail pdc@palm.com and my rejection was approved, but now waiting for update 1.0.2 to be published Jul 19 06:45:13 Rejection is problem in their system i guess. I have always one "Pending deletion" in one of My Apps. Jul 19 06:45:37 I've mailed pdc@palm.com twice to approve / publish the update 1.0.2 but in vain :( Jul 19 06:46:03 Does he not reply? Jul 19 06:49:07 and when I change my app status - Ready for Review and say "We received submission on 01/01/1970". That make me waiting since past 40 yrs now :) Jul 19 06:49:13 no reply from them too Jul 19 06:52:29 Strange Jul 19 06:52:42 he did reply to my email last week Jul 19 06:53:32 Actually, I think he may/may not be on vacation or something like that.... Jul 19 06:55:39 halfhalo i would have thought the same. But he did reply to my email last week Jul 19 06:55:47 halfhalo: word. Gettin closer to using node. Just gotta do a million other things in my app then ill be set :D Jul 19 06:55:55 gnight pplz Jul 19 07:01:49 i too got a reply frmo them for approval of rejection of the app. But nothing for approving the update. Don't know what else to do now. Jul 19 07:13:02 saggy, i understand why you are frustrated :( Jul 19 07:26:10 Any one here using SR71 Blackbird kernel ? Jul 19 07:41:58 not yet Jul 19 07:42:06 i'd ask in #webos-internals Jul 19 07:46:29 Would like to see a video of it :D Jul 19 07:46:47 I need an OC for my 1.4.5 :( Jul 19 07:47:45 uberkernel should be enough Jul 19 07:47:50 i run it at 720mhz Jul 19 07:50:29 are there any official Web OS developers representing Palm in this room ? Jul 19 07:50:50 there are palm developer relations people here sometimes Jul 19 07:50:56 chuqui (community manager) Jul 19 07:51:07 lemketron (engineering) Jul 19 07:51:41 chuqui would be the one to ask about your app submission problem Jul 19 07:52:44 great... but unfortunately I didn't hear from them on my issues... Please listen @chuqui :) Jul 19 07:53:56 it's after midnight in sunnyvale Jul 19 07:54:15 and they don't work on weekends either Jul 19 07:55:01 they need a european developer relations/support structure in my opinion Jul 19 07:57:34 yer Jul 19 07:57:50 I reckon I know someone who would be good at that, and lives in Europe. Jul 19 08:01:30 ;) Jul 19 08:07:21 hehe Jul 19 08:07:36 It is correct that there is no oc for 1.4.5 right? Jul 19 08:11:27 hotdp: You'll want to ask in #webos-internals Jul 19 08:11:55 roge4r Jul 19 08:11:57 hotdp: Palm have not released the source code for webOS 1.4.5 Jul 19 08:12:13 Ohh rwhitby thanks Jul 19 08:12:16 hotdp: so there is no official kernel source code on which to base an overclocking kernel for 1.4.5 Jul 19 08:12:26 Was wondering what was holding it back Jul 19 08:12:38 probably the official release of 1.4.5 in the US Jul 19 08:12:47 hotdp: however, in the kernel testing feeds, we have the webOS 1.4.1 kernel repackaged for webOS 1.4.5, but not containing any source code changes from webOS 1.4.1 to webOS 1.4.5 of course. Jul 19 08:13:04 What does that mean rwhitby Jul 19 08:13:21 What the heck OC means ? Jul 19 08:13:27 you can install a testing kernel for 1.4.5 if you enable the kernel testing feed in preware Jul 19 08:13:29 Overclock Jul 19 08:13:30 hotdp: it means you can install a kernel from the alpha testing feed and see whether it works for you. Jul 19 08:13:43 Thanks Jul 19 08:13:46 I have kernels in 1.4.5 feeds .. Jul 19 08:15:26 you must have the alpha testing feeds installed then Jul 19 08:20:41 or he means the placeholder package Jul 19 08:30:44 hucksy: true Jul 19 10:10:20 hi Jul 19 10:10:32 anyone working with the pdk ? Jul 19 10:10:41 I'm installing it and got some questions Jul 19 10:27:37 what questions? Jul 19 10:28:12 swisstomcat, hi Jul 19 10:28:16 swisstomcat, see http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?sid=fc8e47def158c2c56e3e6753651af7a9&lastaction=login&f=70&t=8159 Jul 19 10:31:35 i had some troubles too, i see that they updated the docs Jul 19 10:32:30 Sourcery G++ Lite for ARM GNU/Linux Jul 19 10:32:36 yeah, didn't notice Jul 19 10:33:08 thing is their website is a mess.. there are paying links everywhere.. getting through all these links to find the download link for the free version is difficult.. Jul 19 10:33:38 yeah Jul 19 10:33:48 older versions of the pdk included the toolchain Jul 19 10:33:54 yeah Jul 19 10:33:58 it's really an obstacle.. Jul 19 10:34:01 yeah Jul 19 10:34:06 tell them (palm) Jul 19 10:34:10 I will Jul 19 10:34:21 it seems unnecessary to jump through that many hoops Jul 19 10:34:40 yes Jul 19 10:34:43 it is indeed Jul 19 10:36:07 you even have to register at sourcery? Jul 19 10:37:03 i didn't use eclipse or visualstudio Jul 19 10:37:07 just the commandline Jul 19 10:39:21 well, I want to use the command line too Jul 19 10:39:39 but since the docs only shows how to use visual studio.?. Jul 19 10:44:57 yeah Jul 19 10:45:10 the samples come with the necessary build scripts Jul 19 10:48:52 right, ok Jul 19 10:49:05 did you have to uninstall the sdk ? Jul 19 10:54:34 i didn't have it installed Jul 19 10:55:19 alright Jul 19 10:56:30 btw, do you know what's the noWidow found in appinfo.json for ? Jul 19 10:56:58 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1748 Jul 19 10:57:09 for headless apps Jul 19 10:59:00 sure, but what's headless app ? Jul 19 10:59:07 is it required for such apps ? Jul 19 10:59:10 what does it change ? Jul 19 11:01:05 haven't played with it yet Jul 19 11:01:47 If it is a headless application, then a card is not required and instead the application can utilize just a dashboard and communicate to the user through notifications. Headless applications typically include a simple card based preferences scene to initiate the application and configure its settings. Note that headless applications require at least one visible stage at all times (either a card, dashboard or alert) to not Jul 19 11:01:55 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1761&limitstart=2 Jul 19 11:08:31 ok, installed it Jul 19 11:08:59 where are the command line scripts ? docs only explain how to run it using script, but on a real device, and in visual studio Jul 19 11:14:19 guess there's none :) Jul 19 11:16:48 go the the sample diretory Jul 19 11:16:52 directory Jul 19 11:17:00 palm pdk/sample i think Jul 19 11:20:10 runit.cmd Jul 19 11:20:13 buildit.cmd Jul 19 11:20:15 etc. Jul 19 11:57:14 hi all Jul 19 11:57:27 hi JenP Jul 19 12:42:59 swisstomcat, runit will attempt to run it on the device. buildit will build an executable for the device ;) Jul 19 12:43:27 yeah Jul 19 12:43:29 hi jenp Jul 19 12:43:54 leo42: does it work now? Jul 19 12:50:33 well, trying to get it work with gcc Jul 19 12:50:42 doesn't have visualstudio installed Jul 19 12:53:49 ok, it compiles, just need to find the correct gcc libs Jul 19 12:58:08 not with sourcery? Jul 19 12:58:19 the includes should all be inside the palmpdk directory Jul 19 12:58:45 if you want to use gcc, you might as well use the WIDK (webos internals) Jul 19 12:59:11 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK Jul 19 13:04:31 sourcery is for building arm binaries Jul 19 13:07:06 ah, x86 build Jul 19 13:28:26 http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2266614/top-alternatives-apple-iphone Jul 19 13:28:42 10 place.. Jul 19 13:54:01 swisstomcat, do you know how gestures work using the sdl ? Jul 19 13:54:14 no Jul 19 13:54:15 and what about landscape mode ? Jul 19 13:54:24 have you checked the forum? Jul 19 13:54:35 not yet, just looking at the first example Jul 19 14:00:42 morning all Jul 19 14:00:50 guys Jul 19 14:00:52 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xe2ij0_cat-shit-one-1-1_auto Jul 19 14:01:00 specops bunnies with guns killing terrorist camels Jul 19 14:01:07 it's so damn funny Jul 19 14:01:09 and cute Jul 19 14:03:18 morning hattczech,wolvenhaven Jul 19 14:14:27 i have a new app to test, anyone interested? Jul 19 14:17:29 swisstomcat: sure, what is it? Jul 19 14:18:10 a kids app with pictures of trucks etc. Jul 19 14:19:36 let me know if you're interested and i'll upload it Jul 19 14:28:42 hello everyon Jul 19 14:28:44 e Jul 19 14:29:11 hello Jul 19 14:29:45 hello Jul 19 14:30:29 i've added your two apps to my translation page, haeffb: http://thinmachine.ch/en/service.html Jul 19 14:32:13 cool. Jul 19 14:33:19 I will have an update that needs some translating soon Jul 19 14:33:47 any testers for my new app? Jul 19 14:34:59 can't install at work... Jul 19 14:35:48 ...email to me & I'll look at it tonight Jul 19 14:36:06 k Jul 19 14:39:03 I heart trucks and have a kid Jul 19 14:43:15 allright, let me upload it Jul 19 14:46:37 funkatron: http://www.inorbit.ch/upload/com.inorbit.toot_1.0.0_all.ipk Jul 19 15:38:20 hmmm Jul 19 15:38:26 when are the winners gonna be announced? Jul 19 15:38:32 probably today or tomorrow Jul 19 15:39:39 yeah, i think so Jul 19 15:40:03 please test my new app: http://www.inorbit.ch/upload/com.inorbit.toot_1.0.0_all.ipk Jul 19 15:41:27 swisstomcat: wusat!? Jul 19 15:41:57 a fun kids app to view machines (trucks,airplane,etc.) Jul 19 15:42:22 nice Jul 19 15:44:45 ooh it's tilty Jul 19 16:26:31 hrm Jul 19 16:26:47 good afternoon folks. Jul 19 16:27:00 (or morning, or night, depending upon your time zone) Jul 19 16:33:39 mornin :) Jul 19 16:36:44 morning everyone Jul 19 16:51:40 has anyone ever messed with phonegap? Jul 19 16:51:56 nein Jul 19 16:51:56 any of you guys using iCal with Google Calendar? Jul 19 16:52:07 si Jul 19 16:52:37 negative Jul 19 16:53:06 halfhalo_pre: do your reminders sync between them? Jul 19 16:53:46 unforunatly, yes. which means I get spammed email notifications whenever I open ical Jul 19 16:54:30 if i create an event in iCal and add a reminder to it, it doesn't appear to sync to google calendar Jul 19 16:54:59 doesn't it sync every 15 minutes? Jul 19 16:55:24 well yes, and you can force sync it. i mean the reminder doesn't sync along with the event Jul 19 16:55:29 the event syncs just fine Jul 19 16:56:11 hmmm. as far as I can remember reminders sync just fine Jul 19 16:58:00 it looks like they do sync with the primary calendar, but not with "delegates" Jul 19 16:58:07 if you have sub calendars/ Jul 19 16:58:32 ah. yeah. I just have primary. but alooot of them Jul 19 16:58:51 I wish someone would pay me to be on IRC and chat Jul 19 16:58:55 That would be nice. Jul 19 16:59:26 that's what I get paid to do Jul 19 16:59:52 Well let me know when there's more openings ;) Jul 19 17:06:47 Hiii everybaaaady. Jul 19 17:06:59 Hiiii dr. Nick Jul 19 17:09:14 halfhalo_pre: u get paid to be on IRC? Jul 19 17:09:31 close enough Jul 19 17:09:43 we all do Jul 19 17:09:45 nowadays Jul 19 17:09:51 that there are no more summer projects Jul 19 17:10:19 Anyone who has a programming job gets paid to be on irc Jul 19 17:10:47 this is true Jul 19 17:10:47 heh Jul 19 17:10:52 completely true Jul 19 17:11:07 i got my current job by being on irc Jul 19 17:11:07 damn straight Jul 19 17:11:20 oh ok true that Jul 19 17:11:21 Since its a perfectly valid waste of time. Jul 19 17:11:28 yeah makes sense Jul 19 17:11:38 Well, some of us have our own business Jul 19 17:11:40 I got my student assistant jub by randomly talking to it Jul 19 17:11:46 Which means we don't get paid when we're on IRC Jul 19 17:11:52 We need to produce, or else ... :) Jul 19 17:12:03 multitask Jul 19 17:12:08 You can claim you're seeking help on a particular difficult programming task. Jul 19 17:12:17 i would love to have my own business Jul 19 17:12:24 problem is, I need a paycheck Jul 19 17:12:31 Particularly Jul 19 17:12:34 elyon: yeah. i just folded my startup about a month ago Jul 19 17:12:38 see, I like to get payed so that I can buy things, like food, and housing Jul 19 17:12:40 Yeah, but that defeats the whole point of being paid to chat on IRC Jul 19 17:12:45 setting up a new company now Jul 19 17:12:52 Being paid to chat on IRC means you chat, and you make money Jul 19 17:12:54 setting up a new company now... Jul 19 17:12:59 ...and it just folded Jul 19 17:12:59 And you don't need to produce anything ;) Jul 19 17:13:04 alexfner: lol Jul 19 17:13:08 I own a canadian business... :p Jul 19 17:13:16 canadian businesses eh? Jul 19 17:13:28 I just wish my likes and income were a little closer together Jul 19 17:13:33 I happen to have multiple wealthy relatives in Nigeria who I am funding to start some businesses Jul 19 17:13:40 I'm gonna register my business on wednesday. Jul 19 17:13:45 lol Jul 19 17:13:49 soon, I will be very wealthy Jul 19 17:14:00 according to the emails I've received, at least Jul 19 17:14:12 anivrom: i've been waiting very patiently for my articles of organization to be returned/approved Jul 19 17:14:15 la la la Jul 19 17:14:16 hah Jul 19 17:14:40 My nigerian contacts aren't relatives but they might as well be! We've sent several emails back and forth. Jul 19 17:14:54 I mean, I didn't even know I had relatives in nigeria! Jul 19 17:14:58 Very trustworthy Jul 19 17:15:19 anyways Jul 19 17:15:39 to whom it may concern: stop developing apps right now, I have already made what you are working on Jul 19 17:15:39 :/ Jul 19 17:15:52 php project due tomorrow Jul 19 17:16:07 dump php, get node! Jul 19 17:16:14 nodejs is the future of web hustling Jul 19 17:16:24 ... Jul 19 17:16:28 Should be getting my partnership royalties soon :) they said it was 10000 this month. I already bought a car on my credit card in anticipation of the money Jul 19 17:17:01 I bought a new liver, from cambodia, on the expected returns Jul 19 17:17:09 40K, but I think it's worth it Jul 19 17:17:21 I want to have a liver on standby in case anything ever happens to this one Jul 19 17:17:31 your telling the guy who makes random crap in node for the hell of it, to use node. I WOULD IF I COULD Jul 19 17:17:56 actually, I'm acquiring a backup set of all of my organs, you can never have too much redundancy Jul 19 17:18:14 alexfner: what kind of stuff do you write with node? Jul 19 17:18:14 I sold my liver TO cambodia. 30K should be getting the money in a week according to my email contact whom I've never met :) Jul 19 17:18:19 or could you write Jul 19 17:18:24 just general webapps? Jul 19 17:18:35 you can write virtually anything Jul 19 17:18:39 Helping people on forums, chatting on IRC, writing webOS applications, porting haXe for the PDK ... that's all fun for me Jul 19 17:18:47 because node can interface with much more than just http Jul 19 17:18:54 But it isn't covering any bills Jul 19 17:19:02 So it creates a conflict of interest :) Jul 19 17:19:15 Between what I'd like to do, and what I "have" to do Jul 19 17:19:36 Not to say it won't ever generate income, just not so far Jul 19 17:19:40 net 60 and all Jul 19 17:19:45 like... can you make a flickr site with node? Jul 19 17:20:05 yeah Jul 19 17:20:12 a web gallery type of thing. upload, view, users, etc.. Jul 19 17:20:13 Well, net 90, more like it Jul 19 17:20:15 you can ask node to go out and grab stuff from the flickr api Jul 19 17:20:22 and do it server side Jul 19 17:20:23 Since it's 60 days after the close of a full month Jul 19 17:20:27 rather than client side Jul 19 17:20:33 Ah well Jul 19 17:20:37 no i mean, coding someting like that from scratch, just as an example of what node might be used for Jul 19 17:20:52 as i'm trying to get my head around /what/ node does for a developer Jul 19 17:20:52 you mean, make your own flickr? Jul 19 17:20:54 yeah Jul 19 17:21:00 I don't see why not Jul 19 17:21:05 I can't wait to finish the 50 other crucial things in my app so I can start using node Jul 19 17:21:14 node is just asynchronous server side javascript programming Jul 19 17:21:20 alexfner: you just code your stuff in js? Jul 19 17:21:27 pandora--: Yep Jul 19 17:22:09 hm. that's cool Jul 19 17:22:12 i think Jul 19 17:22:16 who wrote node? anyone here? Jul 19 17:22:25 it's an epidemic... Jul 19 17:22:58 ryan dahl Jul 19 17:23:06 www.twitter.com/ryah Jul 19 17:23:16 how many connections can node.js handle at once? Jul 19 17:23:26 alot Jul 19 17:24:00 .hmmmm I thought halfhalo wrote node.js Jul 19 17:24:07 lol Jul 19 17:24:11 no Jul 19 17:24:21 Are there any advantages to using node.js instead of another language, like PHP? Jul 19 17:24:26 Other than syntax? Jul 19 17:24:30 "With current NodeJS builds, the practical limits of a single CPU acting as an HTTP proxy are around 2100 reqs/s for a 2.5GHz Intel Xeon." Jul 19 17:24:35 http://developer.yahoo.net/blog/archives/2010/07/multicore_http_server_with_nodejs.html Jul 19 17:25:22 it's sngle threaded right now Jul 19 17:25:26 yeah crazy stuff ryan dahl Jul 19 17:25:32 ye Jul 19 17:25:34 joyent hired him as a result of node Jul 19 17:25:58 but node will prolly get webworkers support in the near future Jul 19 17:26:01 pretty cool Jul 19 17:26:13 which should boost performance as far as requests/s are concerned Jul 19 17:26:22 wouldn't be hard to have load balancing for node Jul 19 17:26:54 <_azdak> hey yall Jul 19 17:27:13 howdy Jul 19 17:27:20 halfhalo_pre: yeah it's all in that article Jul 19 17:27:48 <_azdak> has anybody here worked on a lot of canvas-heavy graphic stuff? Jul 19 17:28:01 <_azdak> lookin for some advice on load sequences Jul 19 17:29:12 I have worked on canvas heavy stuff, dunno exactly what you're asking though Jul 19 17:29:17 but try me Jul 19 17:29:21 I was playing with udp node stuff yesterday... pain in the arse Jul 19 17:29:33 halfhalo_pre: yeah? why? Jul 19 17:29:55 <_azdak> I'm doing a game involving using a lot of drawImage Jul 19 17:30:01 _azdak: I'm building a canva game Jul 19 17:30:15 Using alot of drawImage Jul 19 17:30:26 I don't want to deal with hex. Jul 19 17:31:00 _azdak: and what are your results? Jul 19 17:31:11 <_azdak> not actually all that bad Jul 19 17:31:18 what about performance? Jul 19 17:31:41 <_azdak> So I'm using a time-based loop to trigger a canvas redraw Jul 19 17:31:48 right right right Jul 19 17:31:49 <_azdak> and it's been working pretty well Jul 19 17:31:50 How many drawImage commands per loop and how fast is main lop? Jul 19 17:32:10 <_azdak> using seperate logic and render loops Jul 19 17:32:22 so lets talk this out Jul 19 17:32:27 the best thing to do with canvas Jul 19 17:32:31 is do as little as possible Jul 19 17:32:47 Lol that's any game Jul 19 17:32:47 there are a number of approaches Jul 19 17:32:59 yeah right, but you really have to be smart about it Jul 19 17:33:03 there isn't much tolerance Jul 19 17:33:11 so the start of the frame Jul 19 17:33:17 clearRect(etc), right? Jul 19 17:33:23 <_azdak> yeah Jul 19 17:33:33 ndont have to if you're drawibg a bg Jul 19 17:33:42 right Jul 19 17:33:45 so what I like to do Jul 19 17:33:54 is stack two canvases on top of one another Jul 19 17:34:04 My app has a persistent bg drawn in canvas every loop Jul 19 17:34:20 and keep certain resources on one canvas that need to be redrawn every frame, on top, and those that don't on botom Jul 19 17:34:38 and you move stuff between the canvases Jul 19 17:34:47 it seems to give pretty optimal performance Jul 19 17:34:55 so you only redraw what really needs to be redrawn Jul 19 17:35:15 <_azdak> I've think I've actually done a decent job of that Jul 19 17:35:35 <_azdak> it took a lot of experimenting but I think I've parsed the redrawn elements down pretty well Jul 19 17:35:36 well that's the only real key to canvas Jul 19 17:35:44 so you're set Jul 19 17:35:52 <_azdak> I'm getting about 20 fps Jul 19 17:36:02 <_azdak> which considering the complexity is pretty good Jul 19 17:36:04 that's whats to be expected Jul 19 17:36:06 yeah Jul 19 17:36:08 definitely Jul 19 17:36:08 <_azdak> and honestly looks fine Jul 19 17:36:12 Mine is about 30/fps Jul 19 17:36:16 neat Jul 19 17:36:24 are you getting GCs triggered during animation? Jul 19 17:36:35 <_azdak> that's the deal Jul 19 17:36:35 Sometimes Jul 19 17:36:39 can node.js connect to a sql database? Jul 19 17:37:17 <_azdak> I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how to load the thing in a decent way Jul 19 17:37:27 I wrote Critical Mass, and it was my first webOS app, so the code-more specifically the object creation- is a mess, which triggers a lot of GC Jul 19 17:37:51 <_azdak> I take a huge (8 seconds or so) hit when the canvas is first drawn Jul 19 17:38:08 alexfner Jul 19 17:38:17 How do you make the canvas stack transparent Jul 19 17:38:18 <_azdak> Oh you did critical mass? That's cool. I was actually thinking of doing a similar port ages ago Jul 19 17:38:26 this wasnt working for me before Jul 19 17:38:34 I'm embarassed to admit, cause the code is really ugly Jul 19 17:38:47 <_azdak> Ha! know the feeling Jul 19 17:38:49 the canvas will be transparent unless you draw something to cover it up Jul 19 17:39:06 Yea I minimize fynamic creation of objects as much as possible Jul 19 17:39:26 I define practically everything in my game.init() Jul 19 17:39:41 anyone interested in getting started with Node: http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/javascript-ajax/learning-serverside-javascript-with-node-js/ Jul 19 17:39:59 <_azdak> I've been using more globals that seems really elegant Jul 19 17:40:14 i'm interested in seeing if i'm interested Jul 19 17:40:15 <_azdak> and I've been wondering if that may be the problem Jul 19 17:41:28 _azdak: I had used a lot of globals in critical mass, gotten away from it though, it's just as easy to put all things that you would want globally in one function.prototype and reference them from there Jul 19 17:41:39 Globals shouldn't trigger gc's since they don't get destroyed until the app does right? Jul 19 17:41:49 <_azdak> that's sorta what I thought Jul 19 17:41:59 well they might not help GCs, cause they stay in memory Jul 19 17:42:04 and they might not need to Jul 19 17:42:16 js gc is a little mysterious to me Jul 19 17:42:27 i come from a java background where the gc is very much exposed Jul 19 17:42:33 In a game they would need to since you want tge fastst access to your resources Jul 19 17:42:42 and you can start the jvm with a very tuned gc with tons of options Jul 19 17:43:18 pandora--: ah but that would never work for webOS! Jul 19 17:43:19 ok, anyone know the appid for Verizon Navigator? Jul 19 17:43:28 <_azdak> in any case my object creation is all in setup(), but I don't seem to take the performance hit until after activate and the actual first render Jul 19 17:44:00 anivrom: you can get fast access by placing them inside of the mainassistants prototype and passing, it wouldn't be any slower really Jul 19 17:44:11 Are you compensating for the fact that loading images is asynchronous? Jul 19 17:44:46 <_azdak> I'm .load-ing them in setup Jul 19 17:44:50 alexfner: have you made something complex with node.js? Jul 19 17:44:54 <_azdak> is that how you mean? Jul 19 17:45:07 elex - so to stack them are you making them in div elements and making them absolute or are you styling them directly Jul 19 17:45:09 spdsktr; appid? Jul 19 17:45:16 This is what prevented me from doing this before Jul 19 17:45:17 LoneStar99: Not yet, nope. Just started using it a few days ago Jul 19 17:45:28 discombobulate: yeah... com.palm.? Jul 19 17:45:49 Wel when you assign an image to a variable to precache a via .src = , it doesn't load synchronously Jul 19 17:46:02 spdsktr; i'm not sure of that, but they call it just "VZ Navigator" now if that helps any Jul 19 17:46:13 CTLAdvance: just create two canvases, give them a class, and make that class position fixed with top: 0px, and left: 0px; Jul 19 17:46:21 discombobulate: No, I need the appid so I can launch it from another app Jul 19 17:46:31 alexfner: seems very interesting forsure! Jul 19 17:46:36 ah gotcha Jul 19 17:46:37 working on a possible work-around for the a-gps issues Jul 19 17:47:12 LoneStar99: Yeah I've been reading a lot about what can be done with it. If you look at that link they grab a twitter feed server side and pass it down to the client, really cool stuff Jul 19 17:47:14 So I run into the problem of my app trying to draw a particular resource before its loaded. Jul 19 17:47:42 spdsktr; smooth. i'm interested. Jul 19 17:48:02 discombobulate: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/255632-mini-app-request-periodically-pinging-vzw-gps-background.html Jul 19 17:48:16 Not really a problem, just throws harmless errors in terminal Jul 19 17:49:17 <_azdak> anivrom - oh- so you mean sticking them in the dom instead? Jul 19 17:50:19 var img = new Image(); Jul 19 17:50:26 img.src = "this.jpg"; Jul 19 17:50:39 loads asynchronously Jul 19 17:50:40 alexfner: the twitter feed stuff is in that "http://net.tutsplus.com/..." link? Jul 19 17:50:49 yeah Jul 19 17:51:00 if you try to draw to the canvas before it's loaded, werid stuff may happen Jul 19 17:52:00 <_azdak> hmmm Jul 19 17:52:22 gravity may suddenly go in the opposite direction! Jul 19 17:52:28 <_azdak> ha! Jul 19 17:52:47 <_azdak> it hasn't been throwing those canvas INDEX BLAHBLAHBLAH errors Jul 19 17:53:09 <_azdak> that you get when you try to draw wonky stuff Jul 19 17:53:29 <_azdak> but mebbe that's what's going on Jul 19 17:53:50 Is it remotely possible to run a compiled iphone application on webOS? Jul 19 17:53:51 I dunno, I was just following up on anivrom's stuff Jul 19 17:54:06 Is there any way to create a wrapper/compatibility layer, without altering the code of the app? Jul 19 17:54:18 elyon: if you got the c sauce code, prolly Jul 19 17:54:27 Assuming it's C++, and not Objective-C, of course Jul 19 17:54:35 Yeah Jul 19 17:55:11 I think some frameworks do the compiling for you, so unfortunately it doesn't let you touch the source code Jul 19 17:55:27 I guess you can't run an executable inside another executable? Jul 19 17:55:41 Remapping things that way? Jul 19 17:56:00 (probably not?) Jul 19 17:57:07 <_azdak> is there any way you know to compensate for the iamge load times other than just a timeOut or something? Jul 19 17:57:10 that sounds really ugly Jul 19 17:59:00 Yea there is an onLoad() callback but you have to be careful of wat you use it on. The last image assigned isn't necessary the last image to load into memory. Jul 19 17:59:04 things that are hard: millisecond accurate finger-throw controlled metronome class in c++ Jul 19 17:59:10 And that might not even be your problem Jul 19 17:59:37 things that are east: ordering a pizza Jul 19 17:59:47 Not east Jul 19 17:59:50 easy* Jul 19 17:59:57 well I really screwed that one up Jul 19 18:00:05 <_azdak> lol Jul 19 18:00:05 you really did Jul 19 18:00:24 I've made an app that basically does color puke on the canvas Jul 19 18:00:40 with puke shapes? Jul 19 18:00:43 I think it's going to make me very wealthy... MUHAHAH MUAHHAA mUAHAHA... Jul 19 18:00:56 mostly just an overload of colors Jul 19 18:01:24 delicious Jul 19 18:01:56 _azdak: I don't exactly know why its delaying 8 seconds. Mine delays too from the time the scene pushes to the time the actual canvas draws something Jul 19 18:02:26 this is the closest thing to describing it Jul 19 18:02:28 <_azdak> to try to get the loading situation under control, the only thing I can really think of is starting the draw cycles, keeping an opaque div over it, and polling the fps until it hits over 15 or so for a full second before actually starting the game Jul 19 18:02:28 http://alexhaefner.com/canvas/ Jul 19 18:02:45 <_azdak> which seems really clutzy Jul 19 18:02:59 Well. Jul 19 18:03:32 alexfner: crazy looking Jul 19 18:03:34 <_azdak> ahhh! eye melt Jul 19 18:03:44 yeah I just color puked all over all of you! Jul 19 18:03:49 it isn't quite that Jul 19 18:04:01 the linewidth is set really high on that demo Jul 19 18:04:06 so it looks very odd Jul 19 18:04:15 but click Jul 19 18:04:21 it will really mess with you then Jul 19 18:04:28 ya idid Jul 19 18:04:34 <_azdak> whoooooaaaa Jul 19 18:04:46 <_azdak> rainbow maggots hahaha Jul 19 18:04:52 exactly Jul 19 18:05:38 <_azdak> pretty sweet Jul 19 18:05:48 What you can do alternatively is create a loading setup using fillrect's and after every precache allocation in your init or setup have it advance the rectangle like a loading screen and put onLoad callbacks on caches that load last. You can do some tests to see which ones take the longest via getdate() comparisons Jul 19 18:06:23 that's a good framework for all your canvas drawing needs Jul 19 18:06:29 brb Jul 19 18:07:05 And just hardcode it to start drawing with onLoad's from the caches that finish loading last Jul 19 18:07:23 Its a hack but would work well Jul 19 18:07:28 <_azdak> thanks, really good thought Jul 19 18:07:52 <_azdak> I sorta spaced on onLoad even existing Jul 19 18:08:08 <_azdak> gives me plenty to work on Jul 19 18:08:15 <_azdak> thanks a bundle Jul 19 18:13:10 HP Files for PalmPAD Trademark Jul 19 18:13:14 interesting Jul 19 18:13:22 really? Jul 19 18:13:24 source? Jul 19 18:13:40 engadget Jul 19 18:13:48 and trademark office Jul 19 18:14:03 http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/hp-files-for-palmpad-trademark-a-webos-tablet/ Jul 19 18:14:40 Haha shares of apple hit lowest in 2 months Jul 19 18:15:16 <_azdak> blech to the name Jul 19 18:16:35 yeah, seems tacky Jul 19 18:17:16 Nah I like the name. Unless palm face is an aternative Jul 19 18:17:32 :D Jul 19 18:18:37 * anivrom is running on 2.5 hours of sleep, and lots of redbull :P Jul 19 18:20:26 Brb Jul 19 18:20:36 Incase anyones life is that boring to cate Jul 19 18:20:39 Car? Jul 19 18:20:45 Care? Wow fail Jul 19 18:21:18 Nvm don't have her number :/ Jul 19 18:21:43 PalmPad is not do bad Jul 19 18:21:58 sounds more masucline than iPad Jul 19 18:22:03 <_azdak> I just hate the "pad" Jul 19 18:22:04 <_azdak> true Jul 19 18:22:09 yeah Jul 19 18:22:22 pad to me sounds like maxipad Jul 19 18:22:28 <_azdak> give me slate, tablet, square thingy Jul 19 18:22:36 <_azdak> *anything* but pad Jul 19 18:22:42 yeah Jul 19 18:22:53 I'm just glad they're using webos for hp products Jul 19 18:23:10 If I understood that right Jul 19 18:23:18 <_azdak> and the fact that it'll be seen as an iPad ripoff just makes it worse Jul 19 18:23:22 <_azdak> true dat Jul 19 18:26:43 PalmTab Jul 19 18:27:00 Ever since the hot apps contest started app submission in general has halted.... Weird Jul 19 18:27:30 Barely any new apps Jul 19 18:28:01 *sigh* Jul 19 18:28:11 i've submitted 2 apps today Jul 19 18:28:22 I so wish Adobe's user agreement for the iPhone packager was a little less strict Jul 19 18:28:24 Especially pdk apps. Haven't seen any, althoug how couls you tell besides dev saying so Jul 19 18:28:38 I would so repackage these JAR files to use G++ instead Jul 19 18:29:13 Its apple what do you expect? Jul 19 18:29:31 Adobe makes me a sad panda :( Jul 19 18:29:49 Steve jobs wants to rule the world Jul 19 18:30:00 Adobe Jul 19 18:30:06 Ohhhhhhhhh Jul 19 18:30:09 C++ is a pain and I just want to export my Flash apps Jul 19 18:30:17 anivrom: you work at Palm? Jul 19 18:30:21 Reading fail. Well my statements still stand! Jul 19 18:30:26 :) Jul 19 18:30:44 No I've just always hated apple Jul 19 18:30:52 And I'm a graphic designer. Imagine that Jul 19 18:30:57 I'd sign my life away for early access to the PalmPad Jul 19 18:31:00 ...maybe... Jul 19 18:31:08 maybe I'm not that crazy Jul 19 18:31:17 I don't understand why people think you need a Mac if you're a creative person Jul 19 18:31:28 where the hell did that come from? Jul 19 18:31:43 Huh? Jul 19 18:31:45 who makes those claims? Jul 19 18:31:49 I am lost Jul 19 18:32:10 anivrom said "No I've just always hated Apple, and I'm a graphic designer. Imagine that" Jul 19 18:32:23 All kinds of people say that if you're creative, you should go with a Mac because they're better. Jul 19 18:32:27 That's what they tell me, anyway Jul 19 18:32:39 I think it's a personal preference thing Jul 19 18:32:42 i like macs, but can't afford one right now Jul 19 18:32:56 But I personally believe you can get more software for PC and much better hardware for a cheaper price Jul 19 18:32:56 as a mac user, i can certainly say you don't NEED a mac Jul 19 18:33:11 Alot of ppl do Jul 19 18:33:13 will get a mac a soon as i can, Jul 19 18:33:15 New motherboard + RAM = $300. Brand new computer Jul 19 18:33:23 + CPU, I mean Jul 19 18:33:27 a mac is a PC Jul 19 18:33:27 for a comparably powerful machine, the mac pro doesn't have nearly as high a markup as the macbooks do Jul 19 18:34:17 Let me price shop ... ;) Jul 19 18:34:18 for me, it comes down to OSX vs windows Jul 19 18:35:03 ok, but if you use apple's website, don't add RAM or HD's or monitors Jul 19 18:35:05 Yea. Maybe a little more bugs but mac has its shar of crashes according to my mac friends Jul 19 18:35:06 those are all ripoffs Jul 19 18:35:19 adobe suites crash on my macs regularly Jul 19 18:35:26 nothing else does though Jul 19 18:35:41 yeah. I guess there is no bigger fail than internet explorer though Jul 19 18:35:48 lets be honest, here Jul 19 18:36:20 had 3 macs last year, and loved them Jul 19 18:36:30 now have an HP laptop Jul 19 18:37:56 * Tibfib wants an envy Jul 19 18:38:37 live on preware Jul 19 18:38:39 er Jul 19 18:38:47 forgot the /msg Jul 19 18:40:37 http://h71016.www7.hp.com/html/interactive/envy_15/model.html?buyNowLink=noshow&jumpid=re_r329_3d/NBT/envy_15/ProdPage/Other/CSMR/NonIDP&usePopup=true Jul 19 18:41:08 hp's simplified urls Jul 19 18:41:12 makes life simpler Jul 19 18:41:21 yup Jul 19 18:41:32 I mean look at that Jul 19 18:41:53 I'm so glad they're very explicit in their urls. I'd hate to have a 100 char long url Jul 19 18:42:08 I'm glad that hp recognizes that urls should be a minimum of 400 chars Jul 19 18:42:09 Okay, here we go. Jul 19 18:42:43 Mac Pro. $2500 for a quad-core Nehalem Xeon processor, 3GB of memory, 640 GB HD, 18X CD and a GT 120 video card Jul 19 18:42:47 Check this Jul 19 18:42:58 That processor benchmarks at 5,225 Jul 19 18:43:08 You can get an AMD processor that benchmarks at 6,513 Jul 19 18:43:17 The motherboard, CPU for $350 Jul 19 18:43:23 8 GB of memory for $160 Jul 19 18:43:29 That video card benchmarks at 389 Jul 19 18:43:38 You could splurge and get a GTX 480 Jul 19 18:43:43 benchmarks at 3,456 Jul 19 18:43:48 10x better Jul 19 18:43:50 for $450 Jul 19 18:44:03 what benchmark you talking about there.... Jul 19 18:44:08 So you're up to $960 Jul 19 18:44:15 $60 for a TB hard drive. twice as big Jul 19 18:44:29 $1020 and you jsut need a CD drive and a case Jul 19 18:44:33 PC mark Jul 19 18:44:34 a) harddrives and RAM don't count. you don't have to buy apples marked up units Jul 19 18:44:41 pcmark is oooold Jul 19 18:44:49 Well, if you want a mac pro, you need to buy the whole she-bang Jul 19 18:44:52 elyon: You're not the first to make the case for less expensive, same spec hardware, and you won't be the last. But that isn't why people buy macs Jul 19 18:45:20 Oh, I just think ... half the price ... 10x better video ... 2 2/3 more memory ... faster CPU Jul 19 18:45:29 If you are creative, Macs aren't better Jul 19 18:45:34 unless you don't care about specs :) Jul 19 18:45:34 And.... crap rails dev support Jul 19 18:45:35 yeah, so you'd be someone who wouldn't get a macbook Jul 19 18:45:40 err Jul 19 18:45:42 a mac pro Jul 19 18:45:43 This is a Mac Pro Jul 19 18:45:44 desktop Jul 19 18:45:47 but there are other swho would Jul 19 18:45:51 and they aren't you Jul 19 18:45:57 $2500 for 3 GB of ram and 640GB of hard drive space? Jul 19 18:45:58 but that doesn't have anything to do with creativity Jul 19 18:46:02 And a ghetto video card Jul 19 18:46:22 Well, I understand people saying, if you prefer OS X, use it. That's cool with me Jul 19 18:46:30 But better hardware does lend itself to a better experience Jul 19 18:46:39 not entirely Jul 19 18:46:41 When all the same programs run a lot faster on a PC, you know? :) Jul 19 18:46:57 I don't mind when its a conversation of OS preferences Jul 19 18:46:59 in my honest opinion atleast 60% of below average to average computer users buy Macs, because it is "the cool thing to do" Jul 19 18:47:14 i would buy a Mac b/c of the OS Jul 19 18:47:23 this is all mumble jumble and opinion Jul 19 18:47:29 no real statistics falling into the mi Jul 19 18:47:29 lol Jul 19 18:47:31 mix Jul 19 18:47:36 Well, I'm giving numbers :) Jul 19 18:47:37 and we all know it just comes down to personal preference Jul 19 18:47:47 I'm sorry. I just have so many people who talk to me like I'm stupid to use a PC Jul 19 18:47:50 so there isn't any reason to attempt to evangelize your preference Jul 19 18:48:03 And I think I'd have to be stupid to buy a Mac to use Maya or Photoshop Jul 19 18:48:08 Price wise Jul 19 18:48:15 and hardware wise, at the end of the day Jul 19 18:48:47 And if my computer is too slow, I can spend $350 to upgrade my motherboard, processor and RAM ... Jul 19 18:48:55 Um why would I pay 2k more for a computer that is comparable in hardware to another one 2k cheaper? Just for a different OS Jul 19 18:48:57 and I have a new computer again. I don't need to spend $3500 Jul 19 18:49:10 Not even comparable Jul 19 18:49:23 yeah Jul 19 18:49:34 well you're looking at it purely based on cost of hardware Jul 19 18:49:37 so it will never make sense Jul 19 18:49:45 and I'm not in any position to convince otherwise Jul 19 18:49:45 Well, that's the stuff that's outside preferences Jul 19 18:49:51 I know different people like different things Jul 19 18:49:52 but there are other costs and other external costs Jul 19 18:49:59 I also look at it on a software side, too Jul 19 18:50:05 Some of my favorite software is PC only Jul 19 18:50:09 what ssh client is there built into windows? Jul 19 18:50:09 The other stuff is Mac and PC Jul 19 18:50:16 So on Windows I get both Jul 19 18:50:24 I've been building computers since I was 13, I don't need to worry about hardware compatability which is a big keynote of mac diehards. Jul 19 18:50:27 can you run OS X legally on a windows computer? Jul 19 18:50:32 Nope Jul 19 18:50:41 standard browser? Jul 19 18:50:42 Their license agreement says it must be Apple branded Jul 19 18:50:48 And they won't sell you motherboards Jul 19 18:50:53 in general Jul 19 18:50:58 does it include a development environment like xCode off the batt? Jul 19 18:50:59 So you can't DIY upgrade Jul 19 18:51:06 Umm ... Jul 19 18:51:09 I don't think you're following me here Jul 19 18:51:23 the stock experience is totally different for the two platforms Jul 19 18:51:24 If I wanted Linux, I could install Linux Jul 19 18:51:30 and that is another pro/con for the OS Jul 19 18:51:46 * anivrom fuels the fire some more Jul 19 18:51:58 Like I said, different people prefer different things. I hate xCode, but I know Mac people who like it Jul 19 18:52:28 and I'm not giving an opinion either way towards XCode Jul 19 18:52:35 but I am saying, it is included by default Jul 19 18:52:41 your price comparisons don't take into account all the auxilliary hardware that come with a mac pro Jul 19 18:52:46 for example, the case Jul 19 18:52:46 so if I wanted to start working on something the moment I setup my computer Jul 19 18:52:47 I could Jul 19 18:53:01 and I could ssh into my server the moment I setup my mac, but not on windows Jul 19 18:53:07 the case alone would probably cost close to 700 if you wanted to buy one, though you can't Jul 19 18:53:11 I'll save the $2000 and install Putty :) Jul 19 18:53:33 Or I can install Linux and have SSH available Jul 19 18:53:39 If that's what I prefered Jul 19 18:53:45 you'll save 2000, get simliar SPECS, but an inferior overall product Jul 19 18:53:51 NOT similar specs Jul 19 18:54:12 Meh you'd never convert me to mac based solely on 1 reason. Software variety. VM's don't run 3d software like 3d studio max very well :P Jul 19 18:54:13 That processor was 20% faster Jul 19 18:54:20 and the video card was 10 times faster Jul 19 18:54:33 Knoppix is where its at. Linux to go :D Jul 19 18:54:39 The hard drive was twice as big, and there was a lot more RAM Jul 19 18:54:42 For half the price Jul 19 18:54:47 I know, yeah, you can't have an Apple case Jul 19 18:54:49 look Jul 19 18:54:55 people spend their money in different ways Jul 19 18:54:58 you can't read old benchmarks and claim a definitive 20% increase in performance Jul 19 18:54:58 But you can buy a nice brushed aluminum case for $150 Jul 19 18:55:03 That isn't old Jul 19 18:55:37 a nice brushed aluminum case that's 20% as thick as the mac pro case, and 0 of the internal structures that make it the best case i have ever used Jul 19 18:55:52 people spend their money in different ways and its easy to look at the way one person spends his/her money and critique it. But in reality we all have ways of spending money here and there that aren't so great. So if you're going to critique the way someone else spends money you mind as well critique yourself Jul 19 18:56:07 Here's my point, I guess Jul 19 18:56:13 A lot of people I know who use Macs ... Jul 19 18:56:20 because the way that I spend my money will seem irrational to you Jul 19 18:56:21 talk about how they have to gag because they used Windows Jul 19 18:56:26 and how stupid I am for using a PC Jul 19 18:56:31 well those people are idiots Jul 19 18:56:33 like I'm not cool, creative, or smart like them Jul 19 18:56:35 but we are not idiots Jul 19 18:56:36 agreed Jul 19 18:56:41 double agreed! Jul 19 18:56:45 There's nothing smart about paying out the nose for fancy schmancy packaging Jul 19 18:56:52 none of the mac users here are saying that Jul 19 18:56:57 * anivrom watches as the flames grow higher and higer Jul 19 18:56:58 I don't mind if people prefer OS X Jul 19 18:57:13 But I do mind when people say their Mac is better than my PC Jul 19 18:57:20 elyon: it's the same as me saying I have friends who use windows who think I'm silly for using mac osX Jul 19 18:57:20 When it's only delusion :) Jul 19 18:57:29 my mac is better than your pc Jul 19 18:57:36 my iphone is better than your android Jul 19 18:57:43 Hey, I don't mind if it really is better ... Jul 19 18:57:43 and my apple tv is better than your xbox Jul 19 18:57:52 Lol Jul 19 18:58:02 Do you know what I mean? Jul 19 18:58:03 hmm "personal computer" is synonymous with Windows Jul 19 18:58:14 Like saying that you own a Lexus, so it must be better Jul 19 18:58:16 I'm a pc gamer fan myself Jul 19 18:58:29 Even if its slower, less fancy ... Jul 19 18:58:31 it has "the name" Jul 19 18:58:37 so people automatically assume its better in every way Jul 19 18:58:39 I laugh when people call me a mac or a pc fanboy. Jul 19 18:58:40 I think mouse and keyboard is a million times more intuitive than controller Jul 19 18:58:43 *yawn* Jul 19 18:58:59 *yawning the hell out of this conversation* Jul 19 18:59:15 *feel like I've heard these same arguments before* Jul 19 18:59:38 Bbl Jul 19 18:59:39 in a life without walls... who needs windows? Jul 19 18:59:39 I just think ... from a price perspective ... there are a lot of advantages to building your own PC instead of paying Apple's high prices Jul 19 18:59:48 *arguing about personal preference is the same as arguing about favorite colors* Jul 19 19:00:02 Every time I upgrade my computer, it costs me about $200 - $400, to have the same performance as a new machine Jul 19 19:00:09 That isn't stupid :) Jul 19 19:00:18 no one is claiming that it is Jul 19 19:00:20 And my friends buy Mac towers that aren't half as fast as my computer Jul 19 19:00:25 but see Jul 19 19:00:25 Its nit personal preference, its about not wasting your money on overoriced hardwar Jul 19 19:00:27 Oh snap Jul 19 19:00:37 they don't give a shit about owning the fastest computer Jul 19 19:00:42 they want a mac Jul 19 19:00:47 and so they'll pay more for one Jul 19 19:00:52 and there's nothing that you can do about it Jul 19 19:00:55 they'll continue to do it Jul 19 19:01:06 there's so much more to "fast" than hardware spec Jul 19 19:01:11 and I think that it's mostly so that you can be discontented about macs versus pcs Jul 19 19:01:26 Egaudet: lies Jul 19 19:01:43 "There's so much more to speed than MPH" Jul 19 19:01:58 ? Jul 19 19:02:00 terrible analogy Jul 19 19:02:02 so: who is going to sell body parts to get an PlamPad? Jul 19 19:02:12 Rofl tue Jul 19 19:02:13 True too Jul 19 19:02:16 There's performance, and there's preference. Jul 19 19:02:16 your computer doesn't drive down a straight road in a drag raace Jul 19 19:02:17 i hope Palm sends me a PalmPad Jul 19 19:02:22 Those are the two variables. Jul 19 19:02:23 me too Jul 19 19:02:24 so i can tweak Twee to work onit Jul 19 19:02:30 So, preference is up to everyone Jul 19 19:02:39 I'll sign a million NDAs, lock myself in a closet and develop apps for a month, if they send me one Jul 19 19:02:41 But whether things are snappy, and act reliably is another Jul 19 19:02:43 your computer performs a multitude of tasks, the efficiency of which cannot be measured by ANY single benchmark Jul 19 19:02:55 if we use the car analogy, Jul 19 19:03:30 then keep buying your hyundais, i'll stick to my acura Jul 19 19:03:41 their both crap Jul 19 19:03:43 :p Jul 19 19:03:44 Let me make this more specific. If I'm recording music, and I can pack more effects in with the same low latency feedback, that matters Jul 19 19:04:10 If I'm editing photos, and I experience less lag on big photos, lots of filters, or when I use a pen tool with a cool brush ... that effects my day Jul 19 19:04:24 People like different operating systems. I understand Jul 19 19:04:29 But its still Photoshop, either way. Jul 19 19:04:30 oh god we're still on this Jul 19 19:04:33 It's still Maya on both platforms. Jul 19 19:04:34 whoa whoa whoa... these specific things you list have NOTHING TO DO with processor speed Jul 19 19:04:37 I thought if I left for 30 seconds it would be over Jul 19 19:04:38 Rofl. I can't believe we have sucumb to the trickery, being dragged into a debate as old as time itself Jul 19 19:04:41 I can grab a RTOS that runs "faster" on the same hardware than any OS you are running. Jul 19 19:04:59 That performance is affected by the speed of the processor and the quality of the video card, and the amount of RAM Jul 19 19:05:08 and a trillion and one other things Jul 19 19:05:09 Yes, and the quality of the OS. I'm not talking about Windows 98, here. Jul 19 19:05:23 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=macs+versus+pcs&l=1 Jul 19 19:05:34 it is in fact no affected by the speed of the processor, nor the amount of RAM Jul 19 19:05:44 but LARGELY affected by the performance of that RAM Jul 19 19:05:53 ... Jul 19 19:06:02 and bus speed, L1-L2 cache efficiency, and audio hardware Jul 19 19:06:03 My wife has a Macbook Pro Jul 19 19:06:06 I have a VAIO Jul 19 19:06:12 They have the same CPU, same amount of RAM Jul 19 19:06:16 Mine works a lot faster Jul 19 19:06:24 then she is doing something wrong Jul 19 19:06:24 I know thats anecdotal, but I'm giving an example Jul 19 19:06:32 Anyone in here now using mobile advertising with in their apps Jul 19 19:06:36 I've probably used Macs for three years, at different jobs Jul 19 19:06:38 anectdotal? Jul 19 19:06:47 I'm not just throwing this out, never having used Macs before. Jul 19 19:06:55 well its a bad example, because i have lived and worked in a professional audio production studio, and we used nothing but macs and linux boxes Jul 19 19:07:05 *stands on his feet, attempts to garner attention, and walks out, trying to get the conversation to change tides* Jul 19 19:07:14 Improving the processor speed and RAM has had a significant effect on my workflow, regardless of what platform I use. Jul 19 19:07:45 elyon, that doesn't mean that's all there is to it Jul 19 19:07:47 audio is a bad, bad example for processor speed boasting Jul 19 19:07:57 unless you are SYNTHESIZING audio in real time Jul 19 19:08:05 I was talking about real-time effects Jul 19 19:08:29 Using it like an effects pedal for a guitar Jul 19 19:08:47 Or using a simple MIDI device and relying on the computer for the synthesizer while you are playing Jul 19 19:08:48 Oh look still going :P Jul 19 19:09:14 Hey, I didn't mean for this to turn into a huge thing. Jul 19 19:09:19 A computer is hardware, and software Jul 19 19:09:24 Hardware is measured in performance Jul 19 19:09:43 Software, if its pretty good quality, is measured in preference, or what works better for you Jul 19 19:09:48 performance =/= speed, is the only point i am trying to make Jul 19 19:09:55 So, I just had a couple things to say about price and hardware Jul 19 19:10:01 I understand prefs in software Jul 19 19:10:13 But to say that hardware is irrelevent to performance sounds silly to me :) Jul 19 19:10:46 without proper context, anything is silly Jul 19 19:11:08 "a computer is hardware, and software" :) Jul 19 19:11:35 elyon, performance is directly effected by both hardware and the software that drives it Jul 19 19:11:45 I understand Jul 19 19:11:45 I think the question everyone wants to know is Jul 19 19:11:50 what would you do for a PalmPad? Jul 19 19:11:59 so to say software is irrelevant to performance is not understanding the complexities of modern computing Jul 19 19:12:10 I know. I'm not discounting that Jul 19 19:12:25 But Snow Leopard is not dramatically faster than Windows 7 Jul 19 19:12:30 and performance is much more than raw clock speed Jul 19 19:12:31 I would argue that Windows 7 is faster Jul 19 19:12:37 For daily, workflow stuff Jul 19 19:12:44 But it doesn't matter. Both work fine Jul 19 19:12:52 you may or may not be correct, I wouldn't know I haven't done any hard testing or research on the comparisons Jul 19 19:12:57 But if you feed either OS a better system, they'll perform better Jul 19 19:13:04 I stick to my open freedom software :P Jul 19 19:13:28 If you feed any software a faster hardware setup, it will work faster, so long as there aren't driver/whatever restrictions Jul 19 19:13:36 Like RAM restrictions in x86 systems Jul 19 19:13:47 let's just end it Jul 19 19:13:58 no side of this argument is going to make headway against the other Jul 19 19:14:00 not entirely true, but generally Jul 19 19:14:17 something that is heavily i/o bound isn't going to get faster no matter how much processing power you throw at it Jul 19 19:14:32 You mean like the hard drive or something? Jul 19 19:14:37 Or network traffic Jul 19 19:14:39 I understand that Jul 19 19:14:45 You also have to remember front side bus restrictions Jul 19 19:15:23 It just amazes me that Apple can charge $900 for RAM Jul 19 19:15:29 so then dont' buy it Jul 19 19:15:32 When the same RAM for a PC laptop costs $300 Jul 19 19:15:36 Same specs. Jul 19 19:15:40 god we're still on this Jul 19 19:15:45 it's illogical to you Jul 19 19:15:48 but logical to me Jul 19 19:15:48 apple isn't the first or last company to "overcharge" Jul 19 19:15:54 because I don't want to bother with hardware Jul 19 19:16:02 I want someone else to fix everything for me Jul 19 19:16:06 so I go with apple Jul 19 19:16:12 My computer doesn't break. Jul 19 19:16:15 Apple charges more to control the end to end experience (like HP wants to do with webOS for example) Jul 19 19:16:17 because I like the software, and I don'thave to deal with the hardware Jul 19 19:16:24 I don't get viruses, and it doesn't explode Jul 19 19:16:31 and your computer might not break, but mine usually do, because I am not particularly nice to them Jul 19 19:16:50 My wife's AC cord split in two, and her battery exploded Jul 19 19:16:58 so I need a company that has retail locations where I can drop it off and pick it up 2 days later fixed and workling again Jul 19 19:17:02 and apple offers that for me Jul 19 19:17:06 so I buy from them Jul 19 19:17:19 and your reason for buying hardware is perfectly rational and everyone understands it Jul 19 19:17:25 and no one is trying to question it Jul 19 19:17:33 but we are not all you, and my preferences lie elsewhere Jul 19 19:17:38 so I get apple Jul 19 19:17:39 you don't Jul 19 19:17:45 and that's fine with everyone here Jul 19 19:18:19 Anyone else a musician here? Jul 19 19:18:29 Yeah Jul 19 19:18:42 Which instrument? Jul 19 19:18:50 Guitar, learning the keyboard Jul 19 19:19:00 Nice how many years? Jul 19 19:19:13 7 years Jul 19 19:19:16 I am working my way through the jazz piano Jul 19 19:19:38 Nice nice_, I'm a 12 year drummer Jul 19 19:19:57 Played guitar for a few and know a bit of piano Jul 19 19:20:26 If Palm made a tablet, I think it would be very neat if it worked for media creation Jul 19 19:20:36 My father and uncle are virtuoso guitarists so I picked up some stuff from them Jul 19 19:20:37 Like for sketching, digital painting Jul 19 19:20:45 Or using it as a control panel for audio Jul 19 19:21:12 Torchie: word Jul 19 19:21:24 INDEED Jul 19 19:21:38 You just missed the mac vs pc flame war of all flame wars! It was epic Jul 19 19:21:41 yeah media creation Jul 19 19:21:45 we just need the APIs Jul 19 19:22:07 Eylon and codeslaw were duking it out Jul 19 19:22:09 give us APIiiiiis Jul 19 19:22:11 oh word? Jul 19 19:22:15 It's pretty expensive to buy a Wacom tablet which lets you see as you're drawing Jul 19 19:22:15 well check it out Jul 19 19:22:23 there's computers Jul 19 19:22:26 and then there's MACINTOSH Jul 19 19:22:29 * torchie scarf Jul 19 19:22:30 Lasted a good 30 minutes Jul 19 19:22:32 * torchie sunglasses Jul 19 19:22:34 * torchie convertible Jul 19 19:22:42 not again Jul 19 19:22:48 I thought I just squashed this argument Jul 19 19:22:50 Lol Jul 19 19:23:02 Erm no... It jus fizzled out Jul 19 19:23:18 so how about that palmpad Jul 19 19:23:23 .32 Jul 19 19:23:28 You tried a couple times but the stampede just trampled you and kept going lol Jul 19 19:23:39 I think I got it that last time Jul 19 19:23:58 I'm going to take credit for breaking it on the last attempt Jul 19 19:24:09 wait wait wait Jul 19 19:24:10 I made the mistake of comparing the price/performance of a Mac Pro to a custom-built PC again Jul 19 19:24:15 on the palmPad Jul 19 19:24:19 go the dev forums Jul 19 19:24:22 For a while, especially before Windows 7, I seriously considered it Jul 19 19:24:23 go to Off Topic Jul 19 19:24:26 and speculate with me Jul 19 19:24:36 in the ##mac channel, they say mac pro is the only non-brain-damaged mac Jul 19 19:24:36 cause I think it'd be fun to do on Palm's forums Jul 19 19:24:46 as a macbook owner, this makes cry fall out of my eyes Jul 19 19:24:51 I ended up having a lot of reasons why I stuck with a PC, and I'm very, very happy with Windows 7 Jul 19 19:24:51 we need to write all sorts of speculation on hardware Jul 19 19:24:54 and software Jul 19 19:25:07 I think it would be exciting to see webOS on a new device Jul 19 19:25:14 good Jul 19 19:25:14 Certainly a phone, but a tablet, too Jul 19 19:25:15 word Jul 19 19:25:17 go write it in the forums Jul 19 19:25:20 I kind of want a tablet Jul 19 19:25:24 Palm Foleo 2 Jul 19 19:25:32 how about a phone and a tablet tied to the same account Jul 19 19:25:34 tablets are thin, beautiful, go anywhere and last all day Jul 19 19:25:35 Gladly takes responsibilit for refuelling the fire. Woot round 2 *ding Jul 19 19:25:42 so I can make calls and use the same palm Profile on both? Jul 19 19:25:49 No, I think a tablet would be nice, but I'd like if Adobe could give us Flash, soon Jul 19 19:26:00 I dunno man Jul 19 19:26:03 I remember hearing about flash Jul 19 19:26:06 For a media-consumption device, it would be nice to watch Hulu and Netflix Jul 19 19:26:07 in the days before html5 Jul 19 19:26:25 the pre browser feels like it's got a bit of chop to it already Jul 19 19:26:25 Or a news station, or whatever Jul 19 19:26:29 in comparison to a later phone Jul 19 19:26:40 know what top priority is Jul 19 19:26:44 a zsnes port Jul 19 19:26:48 hah Jul 19 19:27:06 Well even a beta quality plugin that you could toggle would be better than none at all, I think Jul 19 19:27:25 I don't get why they don't make all flash click-to-flash Jul 19 19:27:26 Particularly for me, I guess, because I still want to write Flash games for webOS :) Jul 19 19:27:28 Lol nesem is awesome. I actually bought it and downloaded a 3500 nes games torrent Jul 19 19:27:31 apparently android loads all plugins by default? Jul 19 19:27:37 oh snap I should get nesem Jul 19 19:27:39 does it run well? Jul 19 19:27:45 Now I have every nes game known to man Jul 19 19:27:53 Yea it runs greay, Jul 19 19:27:56 I used to play MAME a lot Jul 19 19:27:57 we need to make posts in the forums like, "I heard the webOS tablet is going to have a biometric scanner that automatically identifies if you're Mel Gibson and denies you access if you are" Jul 19 19:27:59 Great too Jul 19 19:28:08 at midnight I'm going to activate my card Jul 19 19:28:11 so I can buy apps Jul 19 19:28:16 I'll be starting with 20bux Jul 19 19:28:34 Well nesem is 10 of that 20 :P Jul 19 19:28:43 10bux!? Jul 19 19:28:51 But s worth the pristine vintage of every nes game Jul 19 19:28:53 I started having convictions about software piracy, though, so I deleted it all a long time ago Jul 19 19:29:18 trying to remember where I saw nesem Jul 19 19:29:22 it's not in le catalog Jul 19 19:29:27 Online only Jul 19 19:29:28 i hate sprint Jul 19 19:29:37 did you guys hear that the new webOS tablet is going to have a built in projector? Jul 19 19:29:40 oic Jul 19 19:29:43 I did Jul 19 19:29:48 there should be a webos tablet with a built in scanner Jul 19 19:29:48 Is that for real? That would be cool Jul 19 19:29:51 i have no service and i'm trying to cancel my account. any tips on getting them to waive the early termination fee? Jul 19 19:29:55 put the page on top of the screen Jul 19 19:30:00 it scans the page, through the screen Jul 19 19:30:03 Have you had it longer than 30 days? Jul 19 19:30:04 and bam, what you scanned pops up Jul 19 19:30:07 and you read that shiaught Jul 19 19:30:13 Pandora: loooooooooooloooooooooooloooooooooool Jul 19 19:30:19 I also heard it will have a money printer Jul 19 19:30:27 No chance any cell company would do that Jul 19 19:30:32 I also read it is going to have a laser beam attachment for warfare! Jul 19 19:30:40 hoo, imagine Jul 19 19:30:44 a tablet with a built in printer Jul 19 19:30:51 and it will come with a new pair of Nikes Jul 19 19:30:51 Even if you bribed them with more than the fee is worth Jul 19 19:31:01 I wouldn't want a printer Jul 19 19:31:07 and it'll have 450hp Jul 19 19:31:08 I've had so many bad experiences with printers Jul 19 19:31:17 410 ft/lb torque Jul 19 19:31:23 3.8L V6 Jul 19 19:31:28 Elyon: me too Jul 19 19:31:31 all in a tablet! Jul 19 19:31:34 If there's any hardware component I like least, it's probably the printer Jul 19 19:31:40 yeah printers are dead Jul 19 19:31:43 like straight up Jul 19 19:31:45 printers are dead Jul 19 19:31:49 So I stopped using them, yeah, for a long time Jul 19 19:31:59 you can't use a printer Jul 19 19:32:00 Now I have one for scanning and printing my wife's coupons :) Jul 19 19:32:05 you can only attempt to use a printer Jul 19 19:32:09 hah :) Jul 19 19:32:10 and then PAPER JAM Jul 19 19:32:21 Ink is 50 bucks new.. Jul 19 19:32:22 I do like that this one is wireless, and emails my scanned files Jul 19 19:32:44 Yeah, we used to think we were all smart, buying the cheap Epson Jul 19 19:33:00 Lol Jul 19 19:33:16 Epsons have some nice high qualit printers though Jul 19 19:33:16 Which had poor driver support from the vendor, would randomly stop working in the middle of printing, and would cost a fortunate to refill with ink, which would go dry if you didn't use it often enough Jul 19 19:33:25 Which was likely, since it didn't work very well :) Jul 19 19:33:29 Well, it was some time ago, too Jul 19 19:33:29 Friend uses one for his photography usiness Jul 19 19:33:33 B* Jul 19 19:33:45 The one I have now is a Lexmark, works pretty well. Jul 19 19:34:07 Still, I'd rather sign something with a tablet and send a PDF than print, sign and fax. Jul 19 19:34:14 I have a lexmark all in one. Good machine.... Sometimes Jul 19 19:34:21 fax machines Jul 19 19:34:23 what jokes Jul 19 19:34:26 am I correct? Jul 19 19:34:46 What I think is worse than fax machines ... Jul 19 19:34:48 Is fax spam Jul 19 19:34:59 Have you ever been at an office that gets spam through the fax machine? Jul 19 19:35:04 Totally lame :) Jul 19 19:35:04 I had an HP laserjet that lasted me like 6 years Jul 19 19:35:05 Technology sucks but terribly convenient and still going strong Jul 19 19:35:06 I hate it Jul 19 19:35:13 They make YOU pay for their advertising :) Jul 19 19:36:14 Haeffb_pre: word Jul 19 19:36:41 Wondr why wIRC tab autocomplete doesn't work most of the time Jul 19 19:37:23 I wonder why wIRC likes to use that light green color for user names :) Jul 19 19:37:28 Completely unreadable Jul 19 19:37:34 I don't mind Jul 19 19:37:46 I don't have trouble reading it Jul 19 19:37:52 :O Jul 19 19:37:58 Maybe it's a screen brightness thing Jul 19 19:38:03 wiiiiirc Jul 19 19:38:05 Or it supports the dark theme, right? Jul 19 19:38:12 40% here Jul 19 19:38:18 Yea it does Jul 19 19:38:44 It also supports draining your battery in 1 hour Jul 19 19:38:56 I thought it also would be cool if it remembered chat rooms Jul 19 19:39:05 That's how Opera works Jul 19 19:39:06 xextra bonus feature on the side. ;) Jul 19 19:39:10 hah :) Jul 19 19:39:21 "You don't need battery, do you?" Jul 19 19:39:47 Well I keep my pre plugged in almost all day so it doesn't affect me as much Jul 19 19:40:31 I hadn't noticed the posts about Palm Pad being official Jul 19 19:40:32 But you don't really need a batter if you carry a portable crankdriven alternator/generator with you, and really who doesn't? Jul 19 19:40:36 I think its a nice name Jul 19 19:41:09 I saw something in the news about tubes the put under cars, so they generate electricity while they go wait in traffic Jul 19 19:41:16 Maybe we should get the same thing for our shoes Jul 19 19:41:31 And run an AC cord from our shoes to our pockets Jul 19 19:41:36 rocket powered shoes? Jul 19 19:41:40 We could sew a touchstone on the inside pocket Jul 19 19:41:42 Um that's what an alternator does, why would they need tubes? Jul 19 19:41:46 hey node people... are you doing any mysql db stuff through node? Jul 19 19:41:50 oh you want to refrigerate your groin? Jul 19 19:42:08 Oh, the tube thing is it had water or something Jul 19 19:42:11 and I think the tubes are being charged through magnetic induction Jul 19 19:42:20 Careful of the condensation, make you look like you peed yourself Jul 19 19:42:21 So the pressure forced it through, which turned a generator Jul 19 19:42:30 well that's amazingly complex Jul 19 19:42:42 I assumed you meant, sitting at the traffic light Jul 19 19:42:45 waiting Jul 19 19:42:55 Coming off the freeway, I think is what they specifically mentioned Jul 19 19:43:27 Still don't see a need if you have an alternator unless its an efficiency thing Jul 19 19:43:45 How would you build a Rube Goldberg, always keep your phone charged solution? Jul 19 19:43:52 That doesn't require an outlet? Jul 19 19:44:06 One long usb cord.....looooooong Jul 19 19:44:12 node.js anybody? there's some fans in here isn't there? Jul 19 19:44:13 Like a lasso? Jul 19 19:44:25 Maybe we could wear wires, and connect it to something overhead Jul 19 19:44:27 oh yes, what was the node question? Jul 19 19:44:27 yes, pandora-- Jul 19 19:44:28 like a light rail Jul 19 19:44:44 bougyman: can you do mysql stuff when building apps for node.js? Jul 19 19:44:56 I have no idea. Jul 19 19:45:00 i'd never try such a thing. Jul 19 19:45:03 * bougyman postgresql zealot Jul 19 19:45:06 I believe you can Jul 19 19:45:14 I use PHP, though Jul 19 19:45:26 Halfhalo would be the best guy to ask. He's done everything in node apparently Jul 19 19:45:33 http://devthought.com/blog/2009/12/accessing-a-mysql-database-from-nodejs/ Jul 19 19:46:05 bougyman: ok, postgres... done that with node? Jul 19 19:46:08 Hmm, nevermind. That site is coming up blank for me Jul 19 19:46:13 pandora--: yes. Jul 19 19:46:34 bougyman: is that part of node or is there some additional lib you need to do DB stuff? Jul 19 19:46:52 * anivrom is lovin his beef jerky Jul 19 19:46:56 http://github.com/creationix/postgres-js Jul 19 19:47:00 need additional lib Jul 19 19:47:07 for mysql or postgres or most databases. Jul 19 19:47:47 http://wiki.github.com/ry/node/modules#database Jul 19 19:47:50 database modules Jul 19 19:47:56 take your pick Jul 19 19:48:19 * halfhalo_class pops up and yells "persistance ftw" and then goes back into hiding Jul 19 19:48:34 Lol Jul 19 19:48:52 * anivrom hails halfhalo 's appearance Jul 19 19:49:05 halfhalo_class: are there any ORM solutions for js/node ?? Jul 19 19:49:10 that would be AWESOME Jul 19 19:49:50 Does anyone know how App Catalog updates have been going recently? Jul 19 19:50:00 Have they been slower, or have they even been occurring? Jul 19 19:50:23 I haven't had an update in my apps for days Jul 19 19:50:25 I have a couple updates I'm waiting on ... wondering what I should expect Jul 19 19:50:27 * halfhalo_class pops up and asks for an ORM example in another language before going back into hiding Jul 19 19:50:43 They are prolly busy reapproving all the pdk apps Jul 19 19:50:52 elyon: a little slower Jul 19 19:51:11 It seemed like it used to be about three days for a new version to be approved Jul 19 19:51:14 halfhalo_class: hibernate in java, for example Jul 19 19:51:17 * torchie updates Jul 19 19:51:20 * torchie refresh Jul 19 19:51:26 * torchie palmhotapps.com Jul 19 19:51:30 * torchie leaderboard? Jul 19 19:51:45 if HP fs up the palmPad Jul 19 19:51:51 there will be blood! Jul 19 19:52:04 if anyone in legal is listening... not really Jul 19 19:52:06 the question is how do you make a pad better than ipad Jul 19 19:52:10 but I just thought it would be cool to say Jul 19 19:52:11 * halfhalo_class pops up and says "Mebe... Don't know any off the top of my head" before scurrying off Jul 19 19:52:11 and will hp do that Jul 19 19:53:06 Palm needs to include native desktop syncing for palmpad instead of dropping the ball like they did for pre/pixi Jul 19 19:53:12 lol alexfner Jul 19 19:53:29 if it's a straightup webOS tablet, it will be better than the ipad Jul 19 19:53:30 more open Jul 19 19:53:35 full linux distro Jul 19 19:53:36 who syncs with their desktop anymore? Jul 19 19:53:37 homebrew Jul 19 19:53:38 Multitasking Jul 19 19:53:39 flash Jul 19 19:53:42 me! Jul 19 19:53:44 well Jul 19 19:53:45 a proper mobile office suite. Jul 19 19:53:45 i'd love to Jul 19 19:53:53 well you can't! Jul 19 19:53:53 it's not hard Jul 19 19:54:01 =( Jul 19 19:54:03 And Paintr Full! Jul 19 19:54:07 You need that for a Palm Pad Jul 19 19:54:11 :D Jul 19 19:54:11 it is hard! i have to put up Kolab and z-push Jul 19 19:54:12 =( Jul 19 19:54:15 PALMPAD. By Kotex. Jul 19 19:54:19 lol Jul 19 19:55:03 paintr full has been thwarted by such lamenesses as -- missing pixel access in teh canvas, and no distro for hybrid apps, and no flash yet Jul 19 19:55:18 It would be fun, too, if there was something like the Korg DS synthesizer Jul 19 19:55:30 Yeah Jul 19 19:55:32 http://jqtouch.com/preview/demos/main/ -- pretty nifty. Jul 19 19:55:41 Well, even by merits of a bigger screen it would be "full" Jul 19 19:55:54 But by the time a tablet comes out, we should have webOS 2.0, I think Jul 19 19:56:03 I'm sure we'll have hybrid apps by then Jul 19 19:56:12 i wrote a couple of synthesizers in flash using the 10 api, but not sure how well they'd perform on mobile hardware Jul 19 19:56:14 (maybe we'll have Flash :( Jul 19 19:56:44 I've made progress with haXe, but it still makes me wish I just had Flash Jul 19 19:57:06 Codeslaw: you need to hit me up with the ipk of your sequencer.... Like nao Jul 19 19:57:10 have you gotten a haxe program to compile? Jul 19 19:57:23 Yeah. I got my bouncing ball to render with OpenGL, and to bounce! Jul 19 19:57:34 Event.ENTER_FRAME, FTW! Jul 19 19:57:39 RAWR! Jul 19 19:57:44 so what was dissapointing then? performance? Jul 19 19:57:47 Yeah but when I try and run some of the other samples, I get some errors Jul 19 19:58:09 Things aren't wired up quite right, and I'm not real familiar with C++ Jul 19 19:58:28 I got an email back from the author. He said he was having similar problems (he's been porting to Android lately) Jul 19 19:58:36 ah Jul 19 19:58:37 The iPhone version works great, though, but its all statically linked Jul 19 19:58:44 So it must be something about the dynamic link stuff Jul 19 19:58:52 well I guess we'll just have to build our own open source device Jul 19 19:58:55 But it feels like its something slight. I might be wrong Jul 19 19:59:01 because I'm founding the company, I'll be CEO Jul 19 19:59:08 anivrom: codeslaw.net/beta_tb/beta.zip Jul 19 19:59:12 elyon will be engineer in charge of displays Jul 19 19:59:22 codeslaw, you're engineer in charge of keyboards Jul 19 19:59:26 anyone else? Jul 19 19:59:30 wtf keyboards? Jul 19 19:59:36 * halfhalo_class claims node Jul 19 19:59:37 we need good keyboards Jul 19 19:59:43 Is that the ipk cause I've doenloadd smething similar before Jul 19 19:59:44 what's my budget? Jul 19 19:59:50 ohh no Jul 19 19:59:55 its still just the executable Jul 19 20:00:00 i'll have an ipk maybe tonight or tomorrow Jul 19 20:00:00 halfhalo_class: engineer in charge of node, which is esentially useless Jul 19 20:00:03 He said it's Flash 10 Jul 19 20:00:04 still working on shit Jul 19 20:00:08 well your budget is slim to none Jul 19 20:00:12 You can't put that on the phone yet Jul 19 20:00:13 can you work on that level? Jul 19 20:00:23 I'm on windows remember? rthe better OS Jul 19 20:00:34 Oops was that out loud? :D Jul 19 20:00:37 * halfhalo_class stabs everyone Jul 19 20:00:40 elyon: he was asking me about the sequencer i wrote in SDL Jul 19 20:00:44 oh, okay Jul 19 20:01:04 The Korg DS synthesizer is fun Jul 19 20:01:19 ya Jul 19 20:01:23 * anivrom is on the floor bleeding from halfhalos stabbings Jul 19 20:01:25 My favorite part is the ability to use the X/Y pad to change the pitch and tone Jul 19 20:01:49 elyon: did you ever see keith peters 25 lines contests? Jul 19 20:01:57 No ... what is that? Jul 19 20:02:00 Oh, bit101? Jul 19 20:02:03 ya Jul 19 20:02:09 I think I might have Jul 19 20:02:11 Linky? Jul 19 20:02:21 Wait ... couldn't you do practically anything in 25 lines? Jul 19 20:02:26 yes Jul 19 20:02:27 Or is that 25 semicolons? Jul 19 20:02:37 STABBYSTABBYSTABBY Jul 19 20:02:39 25 semi colons Jul 19 20:02:49 That's an interesting idea :) Jul 19 20:02:53 http://www.intereaktiv.com/25line.swf this was my entry Jul 19 20:03:43 var loader:Loader = new Loader (new URLRequest ("MY_EPIC_MASTERPIECE.swf")); addChild (loader); Jul 19 20:03:49 Two lines! Yes! Jul 19 20:03:51 * anivrom is on pre therefore can't view due to someones inabilit to follow through on flash support deadlines Jul 19 20:03:54 ya, there were SOME rules Jul 19 20:04:09 no external loading, some other stuf Jul 19 20:04:15 still a major hack fest Jul 19 20:04:41 Ah, I like the Mozart one Jul 19 20:04:47 www.codeslaw.net/beta_tb/interactiveAVsequencer.txt Jul 19 20:04:49 source Jul 19 20:04:58 I feel like I should be playing King's Quest now Jul 19 20:05:23 I feel like some more stabbin is in order Jul 19 20:05:29 STAB STAB STAB Jul 19 20:06:35 codeslaw: if you ever want to poke around with the haXe code, I've got it up on SVN Jul 19 20:06:56 i'd like to take a look once i get this app finished Jul 19 20:07:00 * halfhalo_class stabs his way to installing osx updates and rebooting computer while getting food Jul 19 20:07:11 Hopefully I'll be able to get more running than my bouncing ball Jul 19 20:07:27 I want to get past the basics so I can spend more time on building an app instead of a framework :) Jul 19 20:07:33 getting the ball running was still quite a feat though Jul 19 20:07:55 And it's OpenGL! So that's nice. The performance seemed good Jul 19 20:08:27 as long as it is managing the openGL layer for optimal performance Jul 19 20:08:42 I think that's whats going on ... Jul 19 20:08:47 Using SDL to open the GL video mode? Jul 19 20:08:55 Or limiting the frame rate? Jul 19 20:09:05 (I'm new to this) Jul 19 20:09:09 well in openGL Jul 19 20:09:16 you can draw textures to the screen Jul 19 20:09:25 or you can manipulate pixels, which is much much slower Jul 19 20:09:28 Oh, I see Jul 19 20:09:33 I think its textures Jul 19 20:09:38 That part of the code is still the same from before Jul 19 20:09:44 cool Jul 19 20:09:47 I believe he had the physaxe demo running at 30+fps Jul 19 20:10:01 So I got things connected right so it wouldn't give me EGL config errors Jul 19 20:10:06 So now its up and running the GL code Jul 19 20:10:11 word Jul 19 20:10:19 But now, depending on what code the application references, the libraries fail Jul 19 20:10:27 So I need to figure out if i'm not compiling something, or what Jul 19 20:10:42 The weird thing is that it looks like its failing, trying to load the same symbol the second time Jul 19 20:11:00 that stuff is beyond my weak c++ knowledge Jul 19 20:11:04 http://pastie.org/1050952 Jul 19 20:11:15 the best thing about canvas Jul 19 20:11:21 You see how it successfully loads it once, then it fails the second time it tries? Jul 19 20:11:23 is that it doesn't return any errors when you try to draw something on it Jul 19 20:11:29 say for example Jul 19 20:11:29 For example! Jul 19 20:11:34 I'm wondering if something about the second library is breaking the first? I don't know Jul 19 20:11:49 you try to draw a gradient, and you use the proper commands, but webOS doesn't support gradients Jul 19 20:11:53 it won't throw any errors Jul 19 20:11:54 I promise Jul 19 20:11:57 mmm.. i dont think it should be loading the same symbols multiple times Jul 19 20:12:08 I may have made all of that up Jul 19 20:12:14 but I don't think I did Jul 19 20:12:37 alexfner: the canvas has all or most of the functions of the full spec Jul 19 20:12:46 but most of the functions are empty wrappers Jul 19 20:12:58 i.e. the function 'toDataURL()' exists Jul 19 20:13:02 but is set to null Jul 19 20:13:06 and thus Jul 19 20:13:09 no errors! Jul 19 20:13:09 Here's the little snippet of code: Jul 19 20:13:10 http://pastie.org/1050958 Jul 19 20:13:12 silent failure Jul 19 20:13:15 yep Jul 19 20:13:21 it's a turn on of mine, silent failure Jul 19 20:13:32 took me a while to realize how bad the canvas implementation is Jul 19 20:14:05 is it that bad? Jul 19 20:14:11 I didn't notice Jul 19 20:14:20 its just missing the MOST useful parts Jul 19 20:14:22 getPixel Jul 19 20:14:25 putPixel Jul 19 20:14:29 gradients Jul 19 20:14:30 getImageData Jul 19 20:14:30 shadows Jul 19 20:14:33 yes Jul 19 20:14:36 pfft Jul 19 20:14:41 I can draw CIRCLES!@ Jul 19 20:14:46 and squares! Jul 19 20:14:46 alexfner: was node.js developed by yahoo? Jul 19 20:14:49 pixel operations alone would be imensely helpful Jul 19 20:14:50 and lines! Jul 19 20:14:57 LoneStar99: nope, ryan dahl Jul 19 20:15:08 LoneStar99: Yahoo is just experimenting with it Jul 19 20:15:08 Yahoo is just sexperimenting with it Jul 19 20:15:43 oh ok, watching a presentation http://blip.tv/file/2899135 Jul 19 20:15:44 holy crap Jul 19 20:15:46 did you just do that Jul 19 20:15:48 that was nuts Jul 19 20:15:51 I am going nuts Jul 19 20:16:00 how did you know what I was going to say?? Jul 19 20:16:43 not sure Jul 19 20:17:22 dekan: are you reading my mind Jul 19 20:17:22 Not a bloody clue, sir. Jul 19 20:19:13 scoobysnack Jul 19 20:19:13 Scoobydoobeedoo! Jul 19 20:19:54 scoobysnack Jul 19 20:19:55 Scoobydoobeedoo! Jul 19 20:20:00 you say? Jul 19 20:20:21 Be on later Jul 19 20:21:29 Okay, quick shared library question? Jul 19 20:21:35 If you load one library into memory ... Jul 19 20:21:45 Then load a second into memory which contains some similar variables ... Jul 19 20:21:47 What happens? Jul 19 20:21:54 I mean, if they have some cross-over? Jul 19 20:22:44 LoneStar99: that guy is a terrible awkward public speaker Jul 19 20:23:41 elyon: i think it would cause an issue if you were using both libs in the same context Jul 19 20:23:50 Hmm ... Jul 19 20:24:06 So would I want to try and make the later libraries exclude the same things which are found in the first ... Jul 19 20:24:15 Or would I just squish them all into the same library? Jul 19 20:24:28 totally depends on the library Jul 19 20:24:38 BUT... i would ask someone like Rob that question Jul 19 20:24:50 all of that could be handled by namespaces Jul 19 20:25:02 i'm just speculating Jul 19 20:25:10 one of them is the haXe core Jul 19 20:25:13 well I installed linux (ubuntu flavor) for the first time in about 10 years or so... anyone have any favorite applications that they suggest I install? Jul 19 20:25:23 The other has pcre, regexp, some stuff like that Jul 19 20:25:45 what are the conflicting variable names and such? Jul 19 20:26:06 Well, when I don't have the second library, it says it cannot find std@float_of_bytes Jul 19 20:26:13 I assume that's the namespace and such Jul 19 20:26:16 Then when I include it ... Jul 19 20:26:38 http://pastie.org/1050952 Jul 19 20:27:06 http://pastie.org/1050958 Jul 19 20:27:16 mmm ya, i dont know Jul 19 20:27:24 could be library compatibility issues Jul 19 20:27:40 Do you know what dlsym(RTLD_DEFAULT,"hx_cffi"); means? Jul 19 20:28:14 nope Jul 19 20:28:38 dlsym gets the address of a defined symbol Jul 19 20:28:52 the symbol named "hx_cffi" in this case Jul 19 20:30:13 Ah, interesting Jul 19 20:30:21 So it looks like, each library includes CFFI.h Jul 19 20:30:32 Which appears to have some methods to answer whether something is defined Jul 19 20:30:43 So the loader loads it up, then asks it if a certain value is available Jul 19 20:31:02 But maybe it is committing a namespace conflict in webOS? Jul 19 20:31:11 can we please destroy appbookshop Jul 19 20:31:19 Or make it one app? :) Jul 19 20:31:37 that would destroy them Jul 19 20:31:38 Hey, well if they push up the catalog numbers, it'll make people happy, I guess Jul 19 20:32:13 it'd make people happy if it pushed up catalog numbers without pushing Actual Apps™ out of view Jul 19 20:32:31 one time I went to What's New and saw just a bunch of AppBookShop apps Jul 19 20:34:05 Yeah Jul 19 20:37:51 Oh, interesting!! Jul 19 20:37:58 I just tried my bouncing ball again Jul 19 20:38:10 It loaded std.so, and loaded alloc_kind then loaded a bunch of other stuff Jul 19 20:38:24 Maybe the best way to approach this is to start adding features, then, one by one Jul 19 20:38:38 Then if it breaks, try and figure out why that specific class is causing it to break Jul 19 20:38:47 Rather than starting with something broken and working backwards Jul 19 20:38:52 its not a bug, its a feature! Jul 19 20:39:05 elyon: that does sound like the best approach Jul 19 20:39:17 Yay Jul 19 20:39:25 It's so much more encouraging when things work Jul 19 20:39:33 Can anyone point me in the right direction to get sound working on ubuntu? I'm a linux newb... Jul 19 20:39:41 halfhalo_class: I tell people that all the time :) Jul 19 20:39:49 appamajig: what sound card Jul 19 20:40:32 halfhalo: it's the built in one on my motherboard... I can't remember what mother board I have. I guess I should research that first? I was hoping that ubuntu would have a utility that handled it for me Jul 19 20:40:45 there is Jul 19 20:41:06 It should be in the pref or admin panel Jul 19 20:41:18 ah, ok, I thought I looked, I'll double check Jul 19 20:41:34 thanks! I'll let you know what I find out if I can't get it to work Jul 19 20:41:56 hey Jul 19 20:41:57 =D Jul 19 20:42:20 yo! Jul 19 20:42:40 did we get the bonus yet? =D Jul 19 20:44:57 ok, I think I know why I they didn't let me into mensa. My sound is working and good to go... the volume was off Jul 19 20:45:27 halfhalo: thanks anyway :) Jul 19 20:45:35 lol np Jul 19 20:46:02 so I just looked in the mail Jul 19 20:46:08 and my PalmPad hasn't come yet Jul 19 20:46:13 I'm so upset Jul 19 20:47:15 Still waiting for 1.4.5 Jul 19 20:47:18 Still waiting for Flash Jul 19 20:47:22 Still waiting for 1.2 Jul 19 20:47:26 Still waiting for Palm Pad Jul 19 20:47:46 But some people here have rich Nigerian relatives Jul 19 20:47:49 on emulator is there a command to refresh a stage? Jul 19 20:47:49 So that's a bonus Jul 19 20:48:29 elyon: Hey I have rich Nigerian relatives! Jul 19 21:10:45 Does anybody know the dimensions for banner notification icons, I'm sick of the generated grayscale icons. thanks Jul 19 21:13:27 ifeanyi_, dont set miniicon in appinfo.json Jul 19 21:14:20 i use a 32x32 icon, set via smallicon in appinfo.json and its auto-scaled and retains its color Jul 19 21:14:32 i was using miniicon, as soon as i removed that the icon regained its color Jul 19 21:18:31 dawm, Thanks! I wasn't using minicon but I'll try using a 32x32 icon. Jul 19 21:32:51 Why does my phone keep logging out of my palm profile? Jul 19 21:37:52 it knows you've been thinking about getting an Evo and it's mad at you Jul 19 21:38:25 anyone have a problem with their pre where it only works in speaker phone mode? Jul 19 21:38:31 because i'm having that problem Jul 19 21:38:34 question. I'm working with mojo.widget.list . I'm building my list from a json request. I'm not sure how to reference the structure correct. The structure looks like: products:[name: value, shortDescripton: value],[name: value.... Jul 19 21:38:41 and it's pushing me towards the Evo cliff Jul 19 21:40:05 in my row template, i have #{name} Jul 19 21:40:33 but that doesn't seem to work. Do I need something #{product.name}? Jul 19 21:41:31 dond, you can try that, but you should really just pass the actual JSON array, not the object with the "products" param and array value Jul 19 21:43:09 you know what i mean? Jul 19 21:44:34 I think so. this.listModel.items = this.json.product.name; Jul 19 21:44:43 codeslaw: do you have the patch that automatically switches to speakerphone mode when the proximity sensor says the phone is away from your head? Jul 19 21:44:53 appamajig: no Jul 19 21:45:15 codeslaw: never heard of that then... good luck Jul 19 21:45:19 maik: I'd rather get the Epic. :) Jul 19 21:45:26 heh Jul 19 21:45:38 dond: no. it would be this.listModel.items = this.json.products Jul 19 21:45:50 asedeno_work: epic vs evo? really? Jul 19 21:45:53 codeslaw: have you had headphones plugged into it recently? Jul 19 21:46:04 codeslaw: Running 1.4.5? That totally happened to me Jul 19 21:46:09 thanks. That works! Jul 19 21:46:10 I want a physical keyboard. Jul 19 21:46:20 elyon: still 1.4.1 Jul 19 21:46:23 codeslaw: Then it randomly fixed itself, after some combination of reboots, music, plugging and unplugging Jul 19 21:46:27 oh :( Jul 19 21:46:29 maik: yes, it seemed to happen after headphones Jul 19 21:46:37 Well, hopefully 1.4.5.1 will fix it! Jul 19 21:47:06 I never had trouble with 1.4.1. I figured it was a bug with the beta, but maybe it had already been around? Jul 19 21:47:08 hopefully Jul 19 21:47:13 ya, pretty common. there's a little trigger in the headphone jack that gets stuck in sometimes. take a toothpick or paperclip, put it all the way in and then run it up the left(?) side of the phone a few times Jul 19 21:47:13 i think my headphone jack is just really dirty Jul 19 21:47:16 that will bust it loose Jul 19 21:47:24 maik: trying that now Jul 19 21:48:15 Kind of a bummer when you cant use your phone for phone calls Jul 19 21:48:49 i just look like an asshole walking around with speaker phone on, really Jul 19 21:49:24 Well ... Jul 19 21:49:33 the epic 4g Jul 19 21:49:40 like the evo, but with a keyboard Jul 19 21:49:43 I'd rather be someone on speaker phone, than one of those people who talk on a bluetooth headset ... Jul 19 21:49:48 and processor that is not from qualcomm Jul 19 21:49:51 but do so in a way that they make it feel like they're talking to you Jul 19 21:49:51 it's a win-win! Jul 19 21:50:35 That creeps me out when people do that to me, it's like, "Who are you, and why are you talking to me? Leave me alone!" Jul 19 21:50:36 Anyhow, is there a good way to get my phone connected to my palm profile again without going through the wipe/restore dance I just went through for the past two hours? Jul 19 21:50:51 any word on hot apps competition results? Jul 19 21:51:25 Go to Backup Jul 19 21:51:32 Then on the app menu, go to Palm Profile Jul 19 21:51:42 That will let you change your Palm Profile settings Jul 19 21:51:52 Might help you if it doesn't thing its configured on a profile yet Jul 19 21:52:05 With what launcher? It's offering to wipe my phone and make emergency calls? ;) Jul 19 21:52:12 doesn't think Jul 19 21:52:19 Wait, so the phone isn't on? Jul 19 21:52:28 Or, I mean, it's at the profile screen? Jul 19 21:53:06 Plugging in your profile shouldn't wipe all your installed apps ... I don't think ... Jul 19 21:53:08 but doctoring will Jul 19 21:54:07 Not my phone, but this is what is on my screen: http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2009/11/pixi-signed-out-pre-wipe.jpg Jul 19 21:54:40 I've got novaterm open to a root shell, I can kill LunaSysMgr and reboot, and always end up back here. Jul 19 21:56:31 has anyone managed to link a pdk app with opengl es 1.x? because i keep getting undefined references to gl* when i build for the device. it runs fine on my pc Jul 19 21:57:21 Hmm. And this happens after you let it wipe the phone, too? Jul 19 21:57:31 Yeah, I got it working, but not really with Palm's example Jul 19 21:57:42 Are you referencing the /include folder in the PDK directory? Jul 19 21:57:57 Also, make sure your code is for OpenGL ES, and not OpenGL Jul 19 21:57:58 I'm not letting it wipe the phone this time. I want to avoid that. I didn't want to wipe it the first time. Jul 19 21:58:21 yeah i have been running sdl stuff on the phone for a while now and it works just fine, and yes i am referencening %PALMPDK\include via -I Jul 19 21:58:26 asedeno_work: Did it just do this on its own, or did it happen after you installed something? Jul 19 21:58:44 It was just sitting in its holster when it did it the first time. Jul 19 21:58:48 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/183225-restart-required-8.html Jul 19 21:58:53 All good now. Jul 19 21:59:04 I had errors with it not setting the GL video mode Jul 19 21:59:13 Actually, no, it still wiped all my apps. Grr. Jul 19 21:59:30 so i decided to do my first open gl es app ( and yeah i am referencing GLES/gl.h which is the es headers Jul 19 21:59:34 I had to add the SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION value to SDL 1.2's files, and I had to simplify the setVideoMode call Jul 19 21:59:39 it runs fine in windows which is what is confusing Jul 19 22:00:25 it isnt even getting to the device it is bombing out on compilation with "Undefined Reference" a bunch of them, all gl stuff Jul 19 22:00:30 I'm using #include and #include Jul 19 22:00:44 yep me too Jul 19 22:01:01 Could you name some of the gl methods it doesn't like? Jul 19 22:01:19 glVertexPointer Jul 19 22:01:29 `glDrawArrays' Jul 19 22:01:39 glEnableClientState Jul 19 22:01:50 glGenTextures Jul 19 22:02:01 all gles stuff, i dont have any glbegins or anything Jul 19 22:02:31 Here's what my linking parameters look like: arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ -oMain-debug -g -mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -DWEBOS -LC:\Program Files (x86)\Palm\PDK\device\lib -Wl,--allow-shlib-undefined -lSDL -lGLES_CM -lpdl Jul 19 22:02:54 Hello guys, has anyone experienced problems with special characters in Filterfield? Jul 19 22:03:01 And my compiling: arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ -c -O2 -IC:\Development\haxe\hxcpp/\include -IC:\Prog Jul 19 22:03:01 ram Files (x86)\Palm\PDK\include -DWEBOS -Iinclude -I../../../sdl-static/include -I../../../sdl-static/include/SDL12 -DSDL_OGL -frtti ./internal/BitmapFillPersp.cpp -o./obj/Release/internal/BitmapFillPersp.o Jul 19 22:04:06 amiroo: I've never thought to try it before Jul 19 22:04:08 ok i will try those with my files/objects and see what i get Jul 19 22:05:10 hmmm. when i lo the filterString "wer da hä" i get "wer da hä" Jul 19 22:05:23 lo = log Jul 19 22:07:33 Oh, well the log isn't UTF-8 encoded Jul 19 22:07:46 So the log will display it wrong, even if its actually right in your code Jul 19 22:09:43 i think it's not right in the code either. because it won't find results Jul 19 22:09:59 "wer da h" works fine Jul 19 22:10:23 but what use is the log, if it won't show the right encoding ;-9 Jul 19 22:10:25 ;-) Jul 19 22:10:28 Have you tried filtering on other OS apps? Jul 19 22:10:34 Like the phone book, or music app? Jul 19 22:11:19 yeah. that works Jul 19 22:16:00 huh Jul 19 22:16:13 I wonder what their source code is like? Jul 19 22:16:23 so do i ;-) Jul 19 22:16:26 (Ugh! I hate compiler flags ... :) Jul 19 22:16:34 haha soooo do i :-) Jul 19 22:16:36 Go to where you installed the PDK ... Jul 19 22:16:47 they have a "share" directory with reference code for most of the apps Jul 19 22:16:53 the phone, the music player, the calendar, email ... Jul 19 22:17:12 Some of them are pretty complex, but you might be able to do a search in files to look for a filter field Jul 19 22:17:19 ok. thank you. i hope i can see through that code ;-) Jul 19 22:17:23 They might be doing something different Jul 19 22:17:29 Yeah, it can be tricky ;) Jul 19 22:19:45 So it turns out ... Jul 19 22:19:49 I messed up my compiler flags Jul 19 22:20:02 The reason why my simple example worked, is it was compiled differently than my latest settings Jul 19 22:20:07 Now its broken just like the other example Jul 19 22:20:17 Which is encouraging! So if I fix it again, it should fix the other app! Jul 19 22:20:30 But it also means I don't know why its broken. I wish I knew what settings I had used before ... Jul 19 22:25:30 elyon: This is why git is so much better than SVN Jul 19 22:25:48 elyon: I commit every time I make a small change and make sure that change works Jul 19 22:26:22 elyon: Also, ~/.bash_history Jul 19 22:26:29 Wait, Windows, screwed again :P Jul 19 22:27:47 I have no idea how long ago I had compiled that file Jul 19 22:27:54 Or what settings were in place Jul 19 22:28:08 If anyone is going to do ads, I suggest quatro wireless Jul 19 22:28:10 It could be anything. Rolling back the codebase doesn't really help :) Jul 19 22:28:42 anyone know how to make a textbox with circle edges: it is something with webkit..... can't remember Jul 19 22:29:03 rounded borders Jul 19 22:29:48 yeah found it "-webkit-border-radius:8px; Jul 19 22:34:23 “We’re Apple. We don’t wear suits. We don’t even own suits.” Jul 19 22:34:43 makes sense Jul 19 22:34:47 let's face it Jul 19 22:34:51 suits are only cool if you're like Jul 19 22:34:54 a secret agent Jul 19 22:35:00 who gets in fights Jul 19 22:35:05 or on trial Jul 19 22:35:07 that's the image palm should have Jul 19 22:35:26 apple can look like hippies and palm can look like SECRET AGENTS Jul 19 22:35:39 elyon: using your compile lines i was able to get it running thanks, havent figured out what i was missing yet but since it works i am happy Jul 19 22:35:49 palm: an entire company of james bonds Jul 19 22:38:44 digitalpowers: That's great! I'm glad to help! Jul 19 22:39:29 cource now that i am running it on the phone it isnt rotatated landscape like it should be but i think when i finally get the 1.4.5 pdk stuff it should work Jul 19 22:42:30 * digitalpowers is off and running for a while Jul 19 22:43:57 Can C++ executables be decompiled, to compare? Jul 19 22:44:38 YAY! It's RUNNING! Jul 19 22:44:48 Now for the other sample ... Jul 19 22:45:26 yay sprint is replacing my pre Jul 19 22:45:27 again Jul 19 22:45:35 and my wife's pixi... again Jul 19 22:45:39 With a Pre Plus? (crosses fingers) Jul 19 22:45:41 How come? Jul 19 22:45:51 6 phones later... i wonder if they'll admit that it's NOT THE PHONE Jul 19 22:45:59 it's their service Jul 19 22:46:06 oh :( Jul 19 22:46:14 Bad coverage in your area? Jul 19 22:46:15 can't make/receive calls a lot of time Jul 19 22:46:23 elyon: they "say" i have great coverage Jul 19 22:46:32 Well, that definitely doesn't sound like the phone Jul 19 22:46:34 Both phones? Jul 19 22:46:38 i walk outside my house and I can't get calls for about 2-3 miles Jul 19 22:46:43 elyon: both phones Jul 19 22:46:58 could be just shit palm reception i suppose Jul 19 22:47:09 but, they won't replace the phone with anything other than what i bought Jul 19 22:47:10 Yeah. The factory had a defect on both your phones specifically, because they knew you'd live in the same house Jul 19 22:47:17 elyon: totally Jul 19 22:47:18 To save on shipping costs when they get returned Jul 19 22:47:27 Palm is so doing that on purpose ;) Jul 19 22:47:37 jerks Jul 19 22:47:40 hah Jul 19 22:47:41 YAY! Sample runs! Jul 19 22:47:52 so pissed though. sprint are a bunch of assholes Jul 19 22:48:16 Do they have any Wifi-tower stuff? Jul 19 22:48:21 I forgot what that stuff is called Jul 19 22:48:29 To create coverage, using your internet connection Jul 19 22:48:57 femtocells? Jul 19 22:49:16 Does Sprint have any of those? Jul 19 22:50:27 Any one know anything about when we can expect final results for the hot apps competition? Jul 19 22:52:38 elyon: yeah i have one, they gave it to me - kind of admitting that their service sucks Jul 19 22:52:51 elyon: and waived the equip costs and the monthly $5 fee for it Jul 19 22:53:05 so, the second i walk/drive out of my condo... *zap* shit service Jul 19 22:53:22 drop calls, can't receieve calls, no data, etc Jul 19 22:53:59 when's th leaderboard coming up Jul 19 22:56:16 That's too bad Jul 19 22:56:19 I love how cheap Sprint is Jul 19 22:56:32 But I know it doesn't work at my parents house Jul 19 22:56:49 (Course they live in the woods, hours from here) Jul 19 22:58:19 Woo hoo! I'm excited! :) Jul 19 22:58:23 So happy this is working Jul 19 22:58:30 -Rdynamic on the executable Jul 19 22:58:40 -rdynamic, rather Jul 19 22:58:56 and -fvisibility=hidden when compiling (not sure if that made a difference) Jul 19 22:59:45 Woo! Text works! Jul 19 22:59:48 Onto sample 3 ... Jul 19 23:12:34 Wow, this is neat Jul 19 23:12:49 Text, graphics, filters are all working Jul 19 23:23:11 Yeay Jul 19 23:23:16 I mean, "yay" Jul 19 23:23:42 I'm so glad it's working. Amaranth, are you here? Jul 19 23:23:58 elyon: yes, push please :) Jul 19 23:24:05 It's pushing as we speak Jul 19 23:24:13 So most of the samples ran fine Jul 19 23:24:25 I noticed, though, that framerates seemed okay, but response times seemed low Jul 19 23:24:33 So I think that the main loop may be a little too "hungry" Jul 19 23:24:49 it doesn't load the bitmap, since that file is blank right now (since I couldn't compile the original) Jul 19 23:24:50 elyon: I'll start from scratch with your build and get it building on OS X Jul 19 23:25:27 elyon: solved it that way :-) http://pastebin.com/Dm6ufnNU Jul 19 23:25:28 s/build/source/ Jul 19 23:25:33 And a couple didn't compile because of missing classes. I don't think this version of haxe has a scrollbar class, and the sound one probably just needs to be rewritten slightly Jul 19 23:26:32 elyon: Wow, it was -rdynamic? I should have thought of that Jul 19 23:26:55 amiroo: That's great to know! I plan on adding some filter fields soon, and I'll totally need to know this for German, Spanish and French Jul 19 23:27:03 elyon: I have that problem all the time with GtkBuilder because it connects signals to callbacks at run time Jul 19 23:27:40 elyon: Slow upspeed? :) Jul 19 23:27:42 * Amaranth is impatient Jul 19 23:27:59 Amaranth: Cool thing is it looks like people can use the compiled haXe libraries (copy/paste), and then the settings they need to compile are all included with the PDK Jul 19 23:28:04 I wanna get this crap building so I can actually implement the missing stuff Jul 19 23:28:09 my webservice does a mysql LIKE%% search. so it doesn't matter if it's a or ä ;-) Jul 19 23:28:10 # Jul 19 23:28:11 Yeah, SVN seems especially slow when transferring Jul 19 23:28:15 good luck with that Jul 19 23:28:25 thanks :) Jul 19 23:28:37 elyon: Yeah, I'll make a Makefile or something for building and packaging apps with the prebuilt libraries Jul 19 23:29:02 elyon: Palm set's the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to your app's install location by default so we don't have to worry about that mess Jul 19 23:29:23 set's? wth did I put the apostrophe in there for? Jul 19 23:30:27 So LD_LIBRARY_PATH is necessary when pushing directly to /media/internal Jul 19 23:30:42 But not when making a packaged app Jul 19 23:30:44 But when its packaged with an icon and everything, it won't be necessary? Thats good Jul 19 23:30:53 * Amaranth never puts anything on the phone without a package Jul 19 23:31:01 That's why I automated packaging and installing :) Jul 19 23:31:16 I started out that way, then I decided not to package Jul 19 23:31:27 Because nothing was working, and I wanted to eliminate as many variables as possible Jul 19 23:31:38 Yeah, while getting the demos running I'll just copy to /media/internal Jul 19 23:31:47 It also made it easier for me to get some debugging out of the framework, to try and figure out what was going on Jul 19 23:32:03 Once we have everything implemented and I'm working on my actual app I'll whip up the Makefile Jul 19 23:32:12 As it gets stable, though, it definitely seems like it will be easier to test with packages, though Jul 19 23:32:34 Wow, you must have made a lot of changes Jul 19 23:32:44 Oh, sorry about that Jul 19 23:32:48 I compiled each of the samples Jul 19 23:32:50 Oh, I bet you pushed your compiled samples Jul 19 23:32:53 Yeah... Jul 19 23:33:11 The nekonme folks seem to do that too, for some of the stuff Jul 19 23:34:13 Wow, Nokia bought Motorola Jul 19 23:34:20 Droid Doesn't? Jul 19 23:34:26 I'm probably going to see if I can find a way to switch between using nme1 and neash, vs. nme2 and hxcpp Jul 19 23:34:37 It would be cool to be able to test in Flash, then to test on the phone Jul 19 23:34:47 Oh, no, they only bought the part that makes cellular network infrastructure Jul 19 23:34:51 (don't have to wait for those long copy times) Jul 19 23:35:13 It isn't the compiling that kills me, its transferring to the phone Jul 19 23:37:33 Amaranth: just their wireless network division Jul 19 23:37:56 you scared me there Jul 19 23:38:30 what does motorola's wireless network division... do Jul 19 23:41:11 they network....wirelessly... Jul 19 23:41:25 you mean like cellphones? Jul 19 23:41:26 ...and then divide... Jul 19 23:41:45 yeah, but without the wires Jul 19 23:42:53 i think they make cell towers Jul 19 23:42:58 but im guessing Jul 19 23:47:26 dohtem: Not towered, BTS, BSC, etc Jul 19 23:47:41 Probably SGSN and crap too Jul 19 23:47:43 what's that Jul 19 23:47:50 I thought they primarily did iDEN though Jul 19 23:48:02 there are things involved with cellphones that are not towers or devices? Jul 19 23:48:07 Wow, you write code that runs on a cell phone and don't know how it gets online? :) Jul 19 23:48:22 I don't write code that runs on a cell phone :( Jul 19 23:48:27 it gets online through the internet right Jul 19 23:49:09 Wow, there is a lot missing from the wikipedia article Jul 19 23:49:14 But I'm too lazy to update it Jul 19 23:49:38 The picture is actually pretty good though: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Gsm_structures.svg Jul 19 23:51:49 Fun fact: Every GSM aircard/network card for laptops has a phone number, it has to get on the voice network to talk to the HLR before it talk to the SGSN Jul 19 23:52:18 correct Jul 19 23:52:26 Well, it doesn't actually talk to the HLR, but that's where the info comes from Jul 19 23:52:50 dkirker: I didn't just read that from wikipedia, I deal with that crap at work Jul 19 23:53:04 :) Jul 19 23:53:07 who died Jul 19 23:53:21 Amaranth: where do you work? Jul 19 23:53:25 * Amaranth does AT&T Tier 2 data support Jul 19 23:53:32 oooo, nice! Jul 19 23:53:40 dirka! Jul 19 23:53:41 And for some reason that has to include helping you sync your iPhone with iTunes Jul 19 23:53:49 And your blackberry, etc Jul 19 23:54:07 ewwwww Jul 19 23:54:08 att Jul 19 23:54:09 I guess that's the Tier 2 part Jul 19 23:54:14 :p Jul 19 23:54:21 It's basically Tier 2 tech support specializing in data support Jul 19 23:54:23 Anivrom: When not doing work on a webOS app, I do work for a colocation facility, and when not doing that I do work on an open source GSM base station. Jul 19 23:54:40 dkirker: You work on OpenBTS? Jul 19 23:54:44 yup Jul 19 23:55:25 Cool, I read about that on harald welte's blog Jul 19 23:55:51 I'm actually going to be going to Burning Man to help run the system there. :) Jul 19 23:56:41 I'm surprised the FCC gave you a license Jul 19 23:57:14 word Jul 19 23:57:17 yeah, after that africa incident... Jul 19 23:58:03 saw whaaaaaaaaaat. Jul 19 23:58:11 say* Jul 20 00:00:02 it would help if i could see the kb on the ipadto type... Jul 20 00:01:15 sugardave Jul 20 00:01:22 Amaranth: How long have you been doing tier 2? Jul 20 00:01:40 dkirker: Since October, I was hired on for it Jul 20 00:02:00 Nice. :) Jul 20 00:02:19 I'm too intrigued by cell phones. As a result, I have way too much of an interest in them. Jul 20 00:02:45 smartphones are the future. all aboard Jul 20 00:03:03 choo choo! Jul 20 00:03:06 More accurately, I was brought in to "interview" for billing support (everyone who applies gets that job) and they happened to be starting a tier 2 class the next week and pulled a few people out of the billing group to offer it to them Jul 20 00:03:28 I suppose my page long programming experience helped there Jul 20 00:03:41 probably so Jul 20 00:04:56 Amaranth: I'll be sure to harass you when I have problems with my AT&T Pixi. ;) Jul 20 00:05:00 I'm completely expecting my app to break in 3..2..1.. Run Jul 20 00:05:15 dkirker: Oh, I saw you post on the forums about that Jul 20 00:05:34 dkirker: Did you ever try flashing a CDMA or world-GSM image to it? Jul 20 00:05:50 I'd love to flash a world GSM image to it Jul 20 00:05:55 which post did I make? Jul 20 00:06:16 oh look it broke. Jul 20 00:06:59 dkirker: Maybe that wasn't you Jul 20 00:07:10 * Amaranth stops talking about it ;) Jul 20 00:07:14 lol Jul 20 00:07:39 Amaranth: What I really want, is an unlock code for my Pixi so I can test it with OpenBTS. Jul 20 00:07:54 dkirker: Did you buy it on contract? Jul 20 00:07:54 lulz Jul 20 00:07:55 Maybe Santa Claus will bring me one for Christmas. :D Jul 20 00:08:48 Amaranth: Off contract. I have a GoPhone account for my development stuff (primary line for the Pre is on VZW). Paid $300 for it. Jul 20 00:09:07 dkirker: Have you tried calling? Jul 20 00:09:14 im way to lazy to move my vzw to prepaid Jul 20 00:09:34 its just to much effort Jul 20 00:09:40 Last time I looked that the decision flow the billing/international folks have for that used and off contract could be unlocked just by calling Jul 20 00:09:57 Amaranth: Not yet. I got a Nokia unlocked recently. I figured I'd wait a week or two so it didn't look like I was going into the unlocking service... Jul 20 00:10:09 Hey, macbook isn't dead. Just the display! Jul 20 00:10:10 At least I think that's what it said, that was day 1 in training back in October. Wanted used sekrit info Jul 20 00:10:20 s/used/useful/ Jul 20 00:10:32 * Tibfib wonders when palm will actually announce something Jul 20 00:10:37 Back in a while. Jul 20 00:10:54 Amaranth: I heard a rumor that devices had to be owned for 90 days before unlocking, starting July 1st. :/ Jul 20 00:11:14 dkirker: Something like that has always been the case, afaik Jul 20 00:11:19 At least for on contract Jul 20 00:11:33 CTLAdvance: ping Jul 20 00:11:43 Amaranth: Yeah. I think it used to be having the account for 90 days. Not sure. Jul 20 00:12:01 You'd probably know more about it than me. Jul 20 00:12:07 _azdak: ping Jul 20 00:12:23 Alright, time to leave work 1 and head to work 2. :) Jul 20 00:12:51 cya ina bit :P Jul 20 00:13:42 Oh, I forgot all about elyon's push, too much cellular network talk :) Jul 20 00:14:05 dkirker: I can look for you tomorrow :) Jul 20 00:14:22 Amaranth: Alright, thanks! I might try giving 611 a call tonight. Jul 20 00:15:22 elyon: From what I could tell most of neko maps to cpp Jul 20 00:15:38 elyon: Try building sample 6 with --remap cpp:neko Jul 20 00:15:44 or neko:cpp, forget which way Jul 20 00:17:35 I tried neko:nme, but it didn't find it Jul 20 00:17:51 When I have a chance, I'll open it up in FlashDevelop were I get code completion for this stuff Jul 20 00:18:05 where, not were Jul 20 00:18:24 elyon: I thought it was flash maps to nme and neko maps to cpp Jul 20 00:18:36 maybe Jul 20 00:19:50 Yep, you're right Jul 20 00:20:04 I guess I didn't have any neko classes in the samples I started with Jul 20 00:20:24 I'll test once it finishes copying to the phone Jul 20 00:23:18 elyon: I forgot how to build hxcpp :) Jul 20 00:23:33 ah, it's in the runtime dir Jul 20 00:23:41 weirest buildsystem ever Jul 20 00:24:13 Yay! Sound works Jul 20 00:24:20 sweet Jul 20 00:24:23 Playing an MP3 now :) Jul 20 00:24:24 elyon: The neko:cpp mapping was the point of building nekoapi, I suppose :) Jul 20 00:24:29 how about latency? Jul 20 00:24:42 I tap, takes a sec or less than Jul 20 00:24:45 I can't even get sound to compile without crippling it, missing a field in a struct Jul 20 00:24:47 But its a 4 MB file or so Jul 20 00:25:01 hmm can you try with a smaller sound? Jul 20 00:26:07 I honestly don't know why they can't fix the latency issue in webos Jul 20 00:26:29 Let me see ... Jul 20 00:26:32 MP3 or wav? Jul 20 00:26:37 idc Jul 20 00:27:18 <_azdak> Anivrom - hey what's up? Jul 20 00:27:38 I'm trying to layer canvas elements and nothing is showing up on my lower layer Jul 20 00:27:47 HAve you gotten this to work succcessfully? Jul 20 00:28:22 I never thought to layer them with static elements on the bgCanvas Jul 20 00:28:41 <_azdak> Yeah, though I mostly ended up using as few canvases as possible as it seemed to render better Jul 20 00:28:55 2 is gonna be fine Jul 20 00:29:03 But nothing draws on my lower one Jul 20 00:29:09 the background is just white Jul 20 00:29:13 <_azdak> that's weird Jul 20 00:29:16 Yea Jul 20 00:29:39 I have a 2nd style class which is a duplicate of the first except zindex -2 instead of -1 Jul 20 00:29:54 still not working Jul 20 00:30:08 <_azdak> hmmm Jul 20 00:30:21 They don't have to be in separate divs or anything right? Jul 20 00:30:28 <_azdak> well- can you get a normal html or css element to show through? Jul 20 00:31:38 apparently Jul 20 00:32:41 Okay, tested with a small MP3 file Jul 20 00:32:50 There's a delay, but less than a second Jul 20 00:32:51 and? and? Jul 20 00:32:53 hmmm Jul 20 00:33:01 even half a second is noticable though Jul 20 00:33:01 It might just be because of the main loop Jul 20 00:33:18 The main loop is a little aggressive right now, so events are a little slow to respond Jul 20 00:33:24 Because its rendering so often Jul 20 00:33:33 Maybe 200 ms? Jul 20 00:33:46 20ms? Jul 20 00:33:52 Less I think Jul 20 00:34:01 Hard to tell since the sound has a little bit of lead up time Jul 20 00:34:10 ah Jul 20 00:34:43 Okay, so there is some delay between when I tap, and when I hear sound Jul 20 00:34:53 But if I tap multiple times, I hear the sounds with the correct timing Jul 20 00:34:56 For what that's worth Jul 20 00:34:59 <_azdak> Anivrom- they are absolutely positioned and all, right? Jul 20 00:35:05 yar Jul 20 00:35:19 <_azdak> and they have an inline height and width? Jul 20 00:35:29 .cssBGCanvas {display : none;position : absolute;left : 0px;top : 0px;z-index:0} Jul 20 00:36:09 <_azdak> well wait- is the display:none switched later? Jul 20 00:36:18 <_azdak> in the code I mean? Jul 20 00:36:20 no but I tried without it and it still didnt work Jul 20 00:36:56 I still don't quite know what the display modes do Jul 20 00:37:01 I'm not an html expert Jul 20 00:37:02 <_azdak> well- Jul 20 00:37:05 or css Jul 20 00:37:24 <_azdak> display:none will literally not display it, at all Jul 20 00:37:44 hmmm well my main canvas css class has it and it certainly displays Jul 20 00:37:49 So idk then. Jul 20 00:38:00 elyon: you were the one porting haXe right? Jul 20 00:38:13 <_azdak> that's totally bizarre Jul 20 00:38:28 http://twitter.com/unwiredben/statuses/18954762491 Jul 20 00:38:31 <_azdak> did you check your css for missing brackets and such? Jul 20 00:38:34 elyon: This looks much more promising so far Jul 20 00:38:40 Yeah Jul 20 00:38:48 <_azdak> cause it sounds like parts aren't taking Jul 20 00:38:54 elyon: Ooh, you're internet famous! Jul 20 00:39:32 Wow Ben is fast :) Jul 20 00:39:32 way to go elyon Jul 20 00:40:05 I really appreciate his help. I totally would have been stuck in "whats an h file? whats an o file?" land without him ;) Jul 20 00:40:43 _azdak: yea it totally doesn't make sense Jul 20 00:41:11 Amaranth: Is there a difference in performance between libjpeg and SDL_image, do you think? Jul 20 00:41:16 <_azdak> Anivrom- I just tested it in case there was some weird webOS & canvas css interpretation Jul 20 00:41:30 and? Jul 20 00:41:31 <_azdak> and display:none works like it should on my end Jul 20 00:41:40 elyon: Dunno, probably not enough to matter for a 2D sprite engine :) Jul 20 00:41:50 Oh, maybe SDL is just a wrapper? Jul 20 00:41:54 So its still libjpeg either way? Jul 20 00:42:04 More or less, it uses libjpeg to load the image into an SDL surface Jul 20 00:42:09 Yeah Jul 20 00:42:11 If nme is doing that manually... Jul 20 00:42:31 <_azdak> so I'm thinking you've gotta have a problem with either your css file/ids/classes etc Jul 20 00:42:33 _azdak: well im not changing the styles dynammically Jul 20 00:42:46 I removed display: none Jul 20 00:44:09 Looks like its manually reading the file to a surface Jul 20 00:44:19 I'm not sure if its an SDL surface or not (not familiar enough with SDL) Jul 20 00:44:20 http://pastie.org/1051371 Jul 20 00:46:42 elyon: More or less, although I'm probably just rip out the libjpeg parts, use SDL_image to load the file, then copy from there to SimpleSurface like it does now Jul 20 00:46:51 elyon: It'll be wasteful but it'll be a quick first start Jul 20 00:47:08 Basically it'll add an extra copy Jul 20 00:47:47 I wonder why those jpeg_start_decompress (and other jpeg_ calls) are saying "too many parameters" Jul 20 00:47:59 It makes me wonder if I have the wrong version of the library, or the wrong library? Jul 20 00:48:04 * Amaranth tries to remember what he did to get rid of all the duplicate symbols last time... Jul 20 00:48:58 * Amaranth remembered, has a built nme.so Jul 20 00:49:37 Anvirom: The sound might actually be working pretty quickly. The whole sound starts and ends by the time the tap animation occurs Jul 20 00:49:40 elyon: I would just go with SDL_image for now so we can ship any time we want Jul 20 00:49:51 Instead of waiting for Palm to think about adding to the whitelist Jul 20 00:50:12 libjpeg and freetype are scary to think about adding to the whitelist, from a security perspective Jul 20 00:50:35 Because there's ways you can exploit it? Jul 20 00:50:44 Oh, like how people put viruses in image files? Jul 20 00:50:49 If there is a security bug in it, sure Jul 20 00:51:00 Or if you use it incorrectly Jul 20 00:51:04 Ah Jul 20 00:51:21 So they'll probably think on it for a while Jul 20 00:51:35 Also, I just built nme.so again so I think I'm good there Jul 20 00:51:51 Well see if you can get up and running with the samples Jul 20 00:52:02 If you can, feel free to try and get the bitmap sample working Jul 20 00:52:14 The text sample already works, but it is using freetype Jul 20 00:52:34 I don't know, though ... part of me feels like it would be better to have it solid using, say, freetype ... Jul 20 00:52:38 Damnit, hxcpp screws up converting to C++ Jul 20 00:52:51 Then to let all the user momentum help get the thing approved ;) Jul 20 00:52:52 Same problem as last time Jul 20 00:53:50 "It could be that it is compiling c code as c++ code. You may need to set you compiler to "gcc" instead of "g++" (although, leave the linker g++ it was originally)" Jul 20 00:54:06 That's what the hxcpp developer told me recently Jul 20 00:54:14 So I guess its written in C, not C++? Jul 20 00:54:45 Or maybe it depends on which part of the project it is Jul 20 01:02:10 elyon: No luck Jul 20 01:02:47 The sound sample is failing? Jul 20 01:02:52 Is it compiling? Jul 20 01:03:01 elyon: It still won't compile Jul 20 01:03:18 ./src/nme/Lib.cpp:86: error: stray ‘$’ in program Jul 20 01:03:38 int $t5 = __o_$t5.Default(16777215); Jul 20 01:03:47 It's making what appears to be a mix of C++ and PHP Jul 20 01:03:51 That's weird Jul 20 01:04:04 Does that do it every time you try and compile? Jul 20 01:04:07 Here's the parameters I have: Jul 20 01:04:09 haxe -lib nme -lib hxcpp -debug -main Sample -cpp bin -cp ../.. -D webos --remap flash:nme --remap Jul 20 01:04:09 neko:cpp Jul 20 01:04:09 pscp -scp -P 10022 -pw "" bin/Sample-debug root@localhost:/media/internal Jul 20 01:04:16 Bmyers_ Jul 20 01:04:23 I did notice, too, that I had to turn off that haxelink line in BuildCommon.xml Jul 20 01:04:35 elyon: Yeah, I copied the haxe line from that file Jul 20 01:04:37 It was labeling applications as "dll" instead of "exe" Jul 20 01:05:49 It doesn't matter what demo I try to build Jul 20 01:05:55 If it includes nme it doesn't compile correctly Jul 20 01:06:06 But only for webOS. If I build for OS X it works fine Jul 20 01:06:17 Oh, you shouldn't have to include nme until runtime Jul 20 01:06:25 It's designed to load it at runtime Jul 20 01:06:32 No no, I'm just building the samples Jul 20 01:06:48 If the samples use nme (like all of the nme samples obviously do) it fails Jul 20 01:06:53 Oh, so not nme.so, but just ... I see. Jul 20 01:08:03 http://pastie.org/1051389 Jul 20 01:08:05 oy Jul 20 01:08:12 I don't like doubletwist Jul 20 01:08:12 Hmm, that's weird. Jul 20 01:08:20 Well Lib.cpp is a part of hxcpp Jul 20 01:08:23 maybe I'll just stick to drag and drop instead of music sync Jul 20 01:08:35 It shouldn't even be processing that ... just a straight copy and paste, then compile Jul 20 01:09:02 I wanted to get Opera Unite running with music ... Jul 20 01:09:11 But the I ran into that "no spaces" bug in streaming audio Jul 20 01:09:15 And that shut that down :) Jul 20 01:09:48 elyon: No, that's the nme Lib.cpp, not the hxcpp one Jul 20 01:09:56 uhh Jul 20 01:10:12 elyon: version2/nme/Lib.hx Jul 20 01:10:21 Oh, .hx Jul 20 01:10:29 hxcpp converts it to C++ and in my case utterly fails to do it correctly Jul 20 01:10:31 hey guys, may I ask for some favors? =D Jul 20 01:10:37 .cpp is in hxcpp Jul 20 01:10:42 As long as they aren't sexual in nature Jul 20 01:12:04 Amaranth: Actually ... Jul 20 01:12:08 Here's my line 86: Jul 20 01:12:15 int $t5 = __o_$t5.Default(16777215); Jul 20 01:12:40 wth Jul 20 01:12:59 Well, the original code base ported to PHP and Neko, which are both server side Jul 20 01:13:07 So maybe the core of it uses variables like this Jul 20 01:13:49 Why does your arm-linux-none-gnueabi-g++ allow it and mine doesn't? Jul 20 01:13:54 Maybe you can pass a flag to ignore certain warnings? Jul 20 01:14:06 elyon: Please run arm-linux-none-gnueabi-g++ --version Jul 20 01:14:31 and paste the line g++ line that compiles that file when you're building a sample Jul 20 01:16:09 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ (Sourcery G++ Lite 2009q1-203) 4.3.3 Jul 20 01:16:09 Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc. Jul 20 01:16:09 This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO Jul 20 01:16:09 warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Jul 20 01:17:20 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ -c -fvisibility=hidden -g -IC:\Development\haxe\hxcpp/\include -IC:\Program Files (x86)\Palm\PDK\include -DWEBOS -Iinclude -frtti ./src/cpp/Lib.cpp -o./obj/Debug/src/cpp/Lib.o Jul 20 01:17:20 elyon: Also, please see if your stuff still works with this patch: http://pastie.org/1051394.txt Jul 20 01:17:32 elyon: That's what I've done to get it to build to the point I have it so far Jul 20 01:18:27 hmmm...guess they must have been sexual in nature... Jul 20 01:19:00 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ (GCC) 4.3.3 Jul 20 01:19:09 So that part is as close as we're going to get to the same Jul 20 01:21:20 haeffb: lol! Jul 20 01:21:45 elyon: The OS X version has the same line (with the $) and builds just fine Jul 20 01:22:04 So Palm's cross-built gcc seems to be messed up for OS X Jul 20 01:22:24 D: Jul 20 01:24:20 Time to figure out how to build the WIDK Jul 20 01:25:04 roy pre 101 is not here =-| Jul 20 01:25:06 midnight come to me Jul 20 01:25:08 Oh, that's Linux only, haha Jul 20 01:25:11 so I can buy something silly Jul 20 01:25:16 WIDK's linux only huh Jul 20 01:25:26 I started booting back in to OS X just because the PDK wasn't available on Linux Jul 20 01:25:39 gang star: west coast hustle Jul 20 01:25:44 why is the cross gcc broken for osx? Jul 20 01:26:23 * haeffb thinks we should have had 1.4.5 in May, 1.5 now and a new device by Aug 1. Jul 20 01:26:51 I'm talking to you, Palm. Jul 20 01:27:07 nooo because then the sprint pre I just got would be completely useless Jul 20 01:27:40 oh wait new device aug 1 Jul 20 01:27:46 yeah that'd be almost cool Jul 20 01:28:07 I'm fine with a new device at anytime... you don't have to wait til aug if you don't want to palm Jul 20 01:28:13 hey incase you guys didnt see it and dont have the webos doctor 1.4.5 image for development they are offering it again https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=8166 probably not the best sign that 1.4.5 is going to be here soon Jul 20 01:28:15 elyon: Paste the output of arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ -v instead, please Jul 20 01:28:25 I'm fine with a new device as long as it's the greatest device ever Jul 20 01:28:29 I mean EVER Jul 20 01:29:56 hmmm....was Pre the greatest device ever a year ago? Jul 20 01:32:09 i want an evo with webos on it and a keyboard Jul 20 01:32:25 bpadalino: It fails on int $t5 = __o_$t5.Default(16777215); because of the $ Jul 20 01:32:25 evo is too big Jul 20 01:32:32 I want a droid incredible + pre/blackberry keyboard with webOS Jul 20 01:32:42 evo is so big it makes other nerds drewl Jul 20 01:32:51 bpadalino: But the codesourcery toolchain for Windows and the regular OS X gcc don't have a problem with it Jul 20 01:32:52 * Tibfib dislikes evo's size Jul 20 01:33:00 i didn't realize that was valid C Jul 20 01:33:05 * Amaranth got the play with a Droid X today Jul 20 01:33:06 if we could just have a droid 2 Jul 20 01:33:08 with webos Jul 20 01:33:09 done. Jul 20 01:33:24 unwiredben: s/all/most Jul 20 01:33:27 bpadalino: Neither did I but I've got two copies of GCC that allow it and one that doesn't so... Jul 20 01:34:01 Amaranth: http://pastie.org/1051411 Jul 20 01:34:04 Amaranth: which is Droid X? Jul 20 01:34:14 * haeffb confused by so many Droids Jul 20 01:34:22 the huge 4.4 inch screen one Jul 20 01:34:28 ah. Jul 20 01:34:35 need a manpurse to carry it Jul 20 01:34:40 hah Jul 20 01:34:52 or really big pockets Jul 20 01:35:00 elyon: Wow they build that thing on Linux Jul 20 01:35:18 So it's built on Linux x86, targets Linux ARM, and runs on Windows Jul 20 01:35:50 droid - perfect screen size, slide out horizontal, and only 13mm thick Jul 20 01:36:00 oscar winning phone Jul 20 01:36:04 don't forget the awful keyboard Jul 20 01:36:24 how awful could it be, really Jul 20 01:36:37 it's hardware horizontal at least Jul 20 01:36:49 it'd be great if the dpad was on the left side, but it's no biggie Jul 20 01:36:50 I prefer portrait keyboards to horizontal Jul 20 01:36:57 Amaranth: the versions of gcc target arm ? Jul 20 01:37:03 that work with the $ ? Jul 20 01:37:06 I prefer portrait too but Jul 20 01:37:17 bpadalino: Yeah, the codesourcery one supports it Jul 20 01:37:24 when you need to see something big and type at the same time, horizontal's where it's at Jul 20 01:37:30 so you can get the widescreen Jul 20 01:37:55 what code produces dollar signs in their identifiers that you would need such a thing? Jul 20 01:38:03 sounds terrible Jul 20 01:38:17 The original framework compiled to PHP and another server-side language called Neko Jul 20 01:38:20 jquery? Jul 20 01:38:25 C++ was added on at the end Jul 20 01:38:46 Since it compiles (at least on my end), I can understand why they wouldn't have seen a reason to change it Jul 20 01:39:08 it's non-standard and it shouldn't be used in code generators Jul 20 01:39:37 I wonder if a find/replace script would work? Jul 20 01:39:59 elyon: Nope, it regenerates the cpp files every time you try to build Jul 20 01:40:00 el Jul 20 01:40:02 err Jul 20 01:40:08 I meant, as a part of the build process Jul 20 01:40:11 So you'd have to fix hxcpp Jul 20 01:40:22 I'm not saying that would be ideal, though :) Jul 20 01:40:30 Does it compile with g++? Jul 20 01:40:36 It does Jul 20 01:40:56 * Amaranth is trying macport's arm-elf-gcc Jul 20 01:41:03 I think it uses a different libc though :/ Jul 20 01:41:19 fixing hxcpp is ideal .. using sed to remove $'s may work Jul 20 01:42:46 Yeah, just have to figure out where the haxe source code is since that's where the hxcpp binary actually comes from Jul 20 01:43:36 Amaranth: I integrated your OS X compiler options into SVN Jul 20 01:43:53 elyon: So it still works for you with those changes? Jul 20 01:43:54 So far I've been able to run every one of the samples, apart from the ones which reference a scrollbar class Jul 20 01:43:57 Yes, it does Jul 20 01:44:12 Did you have changes to the compiler directives in any of the code files? Jul 20 01:44:24 Are you going to send that over later? Jul 20 01:44:32 Or was that not necessary? Jul 20 01:44:48 elyon: Eh? Jul 20 01:45:07 There's platform-specific directives in the code itself Jul 20 01:45:11 not just the build files Jul 20 01:45:16 Those are all the changes needed to build the hxcpp runtime and nme Jul 20 01:45:19 In many places, it uses IPHONE, ANDROID and PALM Jul 20 01:45:25 haeffb Jul 20 01:45:27 I didn't have to change any code, you already did Jul 20 01:45:29 But I had to create some exceptions against WINDOWS directives Jul 20 01:45:35 Okay Jul 20 01:45:49 Linux and OS X are close enough in those cases for it to not matter, if there were any possible issues Jul 20 01:46:10 whats up in NY? Jul 20 01:46:14 I can't figure out where the actual hxcpp binary is Jul 20 01:46:32 wicked rain in the pm.. nice the rest of the day Jul 20 01:47:29 ah, gencpp.ml Jul 20 01:47:33 I get to learn OCaml! Jul 20 01:48:17 Now that I got all these samples running, I'm going to test some of the Flash (haXe) libraries I've been meaning to try Jul 20 01:48:36 That will put the framework through its paces and reveal if there's any holes I missed when porting it over so far Jul 20 01:48:55 Then I'll try and test some of the I/O methods, like loading vectors from SWF files Jul 20 01:48:58 3000 lines of OCaml where searching for $ only finds Makefile and/or shell variables Jul 20 01:49:13 elyon: Try the phyaxe stuff Jul 20 01:49:22 phyhaxe, however they spell it Jul 20 01:49:42 I almost have it working Jul 20 01:49:45 ah, we're finally getting into fun PDK apps i see =) Jul 20 01:49:53 think I will try to get the boat out this weekend Jul 20 01:50:36 haeffb: the kids where in sailing class today and the rest of the week Jul 20 01:50:36 I'm glad that you've had the chance to test it on your machine as well ... when this is finished, I'm going to submit it to the original project Jul 20 01:50:54 It will be nice to have the files configured for OS X and Windows, together Jul 20 01:51:02 nice. Jul 20 01:51:20 Ideally it should work for Linux as well, but the most important step is to finalize the core features Jul 20 01:51:41 proud dad seeing his offspring at the helm of their tiny bathtub sailboats Jul 20 01:51:50 Let me know if you get an app running on your end Jul 20 01:52:35 i hit a webos bug today, curious if anybody knows what to do, when saving an image to /media/internal the photos app doesnt update its index to include the picture, how do I get the photos app to index my image? Jul 20 01:53:57 how old? Jul 20 01:54:04 5 and 7 Jul 20 01:54:59 elyon: I'm compiling a new gcc right now, probably won't finish until after I go to bed Jul 20 01:55:30 life is too short Amaranth, download a binary Jul 20 01:55:41 Bmyers_: Find one for OS X and I will Jul 20 01:56:06 paralells ? Jul 20 01:57:15 Amaranth: fink or homebrew for binaries, or porticus+macports for compiling from source is what i use Jul 20 01:57:17 Bmyers_: paralells? Jul 20 01:57:39 Right, I've just run `sudo port install arm-elf-gcc +fpu` Jul 20 01:57:41 to get open source stuff to OSX that is Jul 20 01:57:47 right Jul 20 01:58:02 i generally compile to... although it takes a while Jul 20 01:58:11 too* Jul 20 01:58:27 isnt there something called tcc? Jul 20 01:58:37 I wonder who sukhgosal is Jul 20 01:58:53 Bmyers_: I need something that generates an ARM binary Jul 20 01:59:28 elyon: You should really remove those bin dirs from SVN Jul 20 02:01:06 really i dont know. never tried compiling for arm target on mac osx Jul 20 02:07:27 evenin' folks Jul 20 02:09:45 hey Jul 20 02:10:08 RAWR Jul 20 02:10:14 yikes Jul 20 02:11:12 dun dun Jul 20 02:11:14 hmm, good solution on forum for deleting items in list Jul 20 02:11:15 DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN Jul 20 02:11:17 aaaahhh Jul 20 02:11:28 * BigBiff needs to remember that Jul 20 02:13:34 elyon: My compiled libs are working, at least Jul 20 02:13:48 elyon: I put my libs and your sound demo binary together and I have music Jul 20 02:15:14 So I've got a haxe app running on my phone that plays Whale & Wasp, rather cool Jul 20 02:15:54 Lindsay, going to slammer any minute now Jul 20 02:16:04 ridiculous news... Jul 20 02:18:30 elyon: And when I strip the files the total file size for the haxe libs and the demo is 'only' 3.3MB Jul 20 02:18:44 I wonder why the demo is so large yet also has to link to these libs Jul 20 02:21:25 meanwhile my demo from toying with GL and chipmunk actually does useful things and is only 176.6k and that's statically linking chipmunk and SOIL :/ Jul 20 02:31:31 what is chipmunk? Jul 20 02:31:37 Ughhhh, has anyone else fought with clearing a friggin list? Jul 20 02:32:30 still can't figure it out eh? Jul 20 02:33:15 No, this is insane, I've tried just about every possible idea and nothing works Jul 20 02:35:13 projectAlarum: there was a post on the forum that looks helpful, did you see/try it? Jul 20 02:36:27 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6242 Jul 20 02:36:31 I've found a few, and still nothing, my list works but when changing the content, if there's less results, it just replaces the first however many rows and leaves the rest, it never really clears it Jul 20 02:37:09 is it a filterlist, or regular old list? Jul 20 02:37:37 Regular list Jul 20 02:39:39 That's a post I haven't seen, lemme see... Jul 20 02:39:45 the mojo.setLength() on that post looks good Jul 20 02:46:15 anyone here use imageready or photoshop? Jul 20 02:46:42 trying to automate resizing all images in a folder, what is that called "macro" Jul 20 02:47:35 Hmmm still nothing... Jul 20 02:48:17 waiting for 12 AM has never been so hard Jul 20 02:48:44 you turn back in to a pumpkin or something at midnight? Jul 20 02:49:47 yeah and then I'm just adorable Jul 20 02:49:52 no but seriously I'm gonna be 18! Jul 20 02:50:43 prrojectAlarum: paste some code? Jul 20 02:51:15 This does look promising... How do you retrieve the length of a list? this.runList.length? Jul 20 02:51:49 ya, this.myList.length Jul 20 02:52:26 Nvm runlist.mojo.getLength() Jul 20 02:52:33 Anivrom: I figured it out, hxcpp is outputting C++ code that other builds of gcc don't complain about but isn't correct Jul 20 02:52:55 that too ;) Jul 20 02:56:56 I'm on my phone now, but I'll be on later possibly and paste some code if I don't figure it out before I get home **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 20 02:59:56 2010