**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 29 02:59:57 2010
Nov 29 03:06:50 <kesne> Bmyers: A set of services for cloud-connected apps
Nov 29 03:07:46 <kesne> I really need someone working on the PHP backend
Nov 29 03:07:55 <kesne> Because that's not what I'm good at
Nov 29 03:09:00 <kesne> And right now it's seriously frustrating me
Nov 29 03:09:12 <kesne> Because I didn't think of some stuff
Nov 29 03:24:08 <sugardave> erg, I wish I had thought of this yesterday...lots of teardown and re-build to do now
Nov 29 03:25:04 <Tibfib> anyone add in a textfield at the add-item in a list?
Nov 29 03:25:50 <sugardave> Tibfib: doesn't it already have one?
Nov 29 03:25:59 <Tibfib> not that I'm aware off
Nov 29 03:26:18 <sugardave> when you tap on the add row, it should let you start typing something...
Nov 29 03:26:48 <Tibfib> sugardave: you sure?
Nov 29 03:26:58 <sugardave> let me dig up that project
Nov 29 03:27:02 <Tibfib> that's not happening in my app, or the samples
Nov 29 03:28:32 <sugardave> oh my bad
Nov 29 03:28:40 <sugardave> I don't know how to do it :D
Nov 29 03:28:49 <Tibfib> shoot :P
Nov 29 03:29:00 <Tibfib> I don't want to popup a dialog
Nov 29 03:29:05 <freshrap6> hello everyone, i have what may be a silly question
Nov 29 03:29:10 * Tibfib hates dialogs
Nov 29 03:29:24 <sugardave> freshrap6: we have all kinds of silly answers
Nov 29 03:29:41 <freshrap6> can you use floating point values in an integer picker?
Nov 29 03:29:51 <Tibfib> I don't think so
Nov 29 03:30:10 <SineOt> aaha... ffs. Connecting via VNC to an ubuntu system that's gone to sleep? Won't let you type in the password to unlock it :V
Nov 29 03:30:32 <Tibfib> freshrap6: integer picker is for integers, not floating point values
Nov 29 03:31:01 <haeffb> Tibfib: you can display a textfield
Nov 29 03:31:07 <Tibfib> haeffb: on top of it?
Nov 29 03:31:18 <Tibfib> or below the list?
Nov 29 03:31:20 <haeffb> or at top/bottom of scene
Nov 29 03:31:52 <Tibfib> I'll probably do below list
Nov 29 03:31:54 <haeffb> or make it a filterlist
Nov 29 03:32:11 <InfiniteLoop> hi all
Nov 29 03:32:22 <InfiniteLoop> I have a question regarding Ares and ListWidget
Nov 29 03:32:22 <Tibfib> haeffb: how could I do it for a filter list?
Nov 29 03:32:42 <haeffb> the add item doesn't work well for long lists anyway
Nov 29 03:32:46 <InfiniteLoop> the app does a ajax call and populates a list widget with the result, for eg like this: http://snipt.org/oSt/
Nov 29 03:32:50 <haeffb> have to scroll too far to get to it
Nov 29 03:33:04 <haeffb> Done & Noted both use filterlist to add items
Nov 29 03:33:10 * Tibfib opens done
Nov 29 03:33:14 <InfiniteLoop> the modelChanged() throws a exception, any way around this ?
Nov 29 03:33:28 <haeffb> have to have a keydown (or up) listener for the Enter key
Nov 29 03:34:14 <haeffb> so the filter filters the list until you press Enter, then uses whatever you've typed for the new item
Nov 29 03:34:22 <Tibfib> haeffb: I think that's a good solution, but might not be obvious to ... regular people
Nov 29 03:34:32 <haeffb> agree
Nov 29 03:34:34 <freshrap6> Tibfib is there something similar for floating values?
Nov 29 03:34:48 <Tibfib> freshrap6: not that I'm aware of :/
Nov 29 03:35:28 <haeffb> InfiniteLoop: modelChanged() is a method of the scene controller
Nov 29 03:35:44 <InfiniteLoop> ah - how do I do the same in Ares ?
Nov 29 03:35:46 <Tibfib> haeffb: I think I'll have the list, then a normal button below saying "Add Item" which will turn into a text field on tap.
Nov 29 03:35:54 <haeffb> this.controller.modelChanged(this.$.searchResult.model);
Nov 29 03:36:08 <haeffb> that seems more obvious
Nov 29 03:36:09 <InfiniteLoop> ah cool thnx
Nov 29 03:36:43 <haeffb> InfiniteLoop: just guessing....I don't do Ares
Nov 29 03:36:56 <InfiniteLoop> anyway Im checking the code
Nov 29 03:41:29 <InfiniteLoop> beats me, I still get a exception
Nov 29 04:02:10 <mugen-> grrr... why doesn't status-available icons position properly in the layout :(
Nov 29 04:10:58 <kesne_> hey all
Nov 29 04:11:08 <kesne_> P
Nov 29 04:11:48 <kesne_> who has any php knowledge?
Nov 29 04:12:05 * halfhalo does.  but he bottled it up and stuck it on the wall
Nov 29 04:13:02 <kesne_> halfhalo: want to help me out?
Nov 29 04:13:18 * halfhalo is not coding right now
Nov 29 04:13:31 * halfhalo has fried brain
Nov 29 04:14:08 <kesne_> Not now but maybe later?
Nov 29 04:14:22 <halfhalo> maybe
Nov 29 04:14:22 * oil points kesne_ to php.net/manual
Nov 29 04:14:36 * halfhalo had that site bookmarked for the longest time
Nov 29 04:14:45 <kesne_> It's not an issue like that.
Nov 29 04:14:57 * halfhalo has a php/mysql certification somewhere from w3
Nov 29 04:15:24 <kesne_> I really need someone to take a look at this code, finish it up, fix it.
Nov 29 04:15:46 <oil> programming it is not kesne_s job?
Nov 29 04:16:07 <kesne_> Our point me in the direction
Nov 29 04:16:19 * halfhalo points up
Nov 29 04:16:43 <kesne_> And i'll pay
Nov 29 04:17:35 <rick-home> what is it the code is supposed to do kesne_?
Nov 29 04:17:58 <rick-home> (no, I'm not saying I'll look at it, I'm asking for a general description.)
Nov 29 04:18:23 * halfhalo coded cool stuff today.  Like a config thingie in node and an awesome regex parser
Nov 29 04:18:44 <rick-home> regex makes rick's brain melt
Nov 29 04:18:53 <halfhalo> Same,  thats why I made this
Nov 29 04:18:57 <kesne_> Lots of things, heh. I have a message system and I need to figure out how to manage the unread messages
Nov 29 04:19:09 <rick-home> oh.
Nov 29 04:19:14 <halfhalo> it makes regex with strings easily
Nov 29 04:19:17 <rick-home> You don't need a programmer.
Nov 29 04:19:35 <rick-home> You need a system designer.  That sort of thing has to be decided BEFORE you start coding.
Nov 29 04:19:41 * oil is scared of showing kesne his php skills, doesn't want kesne running to him everytime he can't figure something out at first glance
Nov 29 04:20:15 <kesne_> Hehe, im sure ill figure it out
Nov 29 04:20:25 <halfhalo> IE It takes in a string  like "I'm a :string" as a template and I can compare strings against it and if it matches it returns me an object like {string:value}
Nov 29 04:20:31 <rick-home> Those are two very very different skills.  Did you run your messaging database design past anyone with messaging experiance before you started?
Nov 29 04:20:43 <kesne_> I am the system designer... A bad one
Nov 29 04:21:07 <rick-home> I'm a GOOD system designer.  I'm a poor coder.
Nov 29 04:21:09 <kesne_> Nope, but I never do.
Nov 29 04:21:15 <kesne_> Hehe
Nov 29 04:21:22 <rick-home> this time, that may have been a mistake.
Nov 29 04:21:33 <kesne_> Yeah figures.
Nov 29 04:21:46 <oil> lol
Nov 29 04:21:52 <rick-home> if the design is right, the how to handle stuff like unread messages just falls out of the design, rather than being a hack pasted on top of it.
Nov 29 04:22:26 <rick-home> is the messaging system threaded?
Nov 29 04:22:33 <kesne_> It's mostly working. The message viewing notifications needs to be rethought.
Nov 29 04:22:51 <kesne_> It's fake threaded.
Nov 29 04:23:05 * halfhalo lols
Nov 29 04:23:07 <rick-home> oh ghods.  That's the worst of all possible worlds.
Nov 29 04:23:17 <kesne_> Using thread IDs
Nov 29 04:23:27 <rick-home> again, worst of all possible worlds.
Nov 29 04:23:35 <rick-home> I was afraid you were going to say that.
Nov 29 04:23:51 <kesne_> I should just start over, heh
Nov 29 04:23:59 * halfhalo votes that
Nov 29 04:24:39 <rick-home> yes, you should just start over.  You should start with a DECISION.  is this going to be threaded like gmail is threaded, or is it going to be threaded like FACEBOOK is threaded, or is it going to be flat, like twitter is flat.
Nov 29 04:25:11 * rwhitby would make it irregular and bumpy, like MySpace
Nov 29 04:25:28 <kesne_> Is gmail fake or real threading?
Nov 29 04:25:52 * rick-home thinks that irregular and bumpy is why myspace didn't stay growing like facebook did, although he admits that mafia wars and farmville might have had somehting to do with it.
Nov 29 04:26:11 <kesne_> Hehe.
Nov 29 04:26:55 * halfhalo throws up his hands in success as he finishes this config module
Nov 29 04:26:59 <rick-home> kesne_  email programs are threaded in that every email contains the message id's of the up-thread emails that are being replied to.  Go look at the headers of an email message.  -- every message contains the "Replies to:  header and that header contains the message ID's of everything upstream of that message.
Nov 29 04:27:15 <halfhalo> yay copypasta!
Nov 29 04:27:30 <kesne_> Alright .
Nov 29 04:27:43 <kesne_> I want facebook style!
Nov 29 04:27:51 <rick-home> Facebook messages are classified as either POSTS or COMMENTS.  each comment contains the ID of the POST it is a comment to.  No comment is a comment on a comment, only on a POST.
Nov 29 04:28:30 <kesne_> Is that a good way to do it?
Nov 29 04:28:47 <rick-home> it works for facebook.
Nov 29 04:29:16 <halfhalo> Thats what I would most likely do (chained messages)
Nov 29 04:29:16 <kesne_> What would you do?
Nov 29 04:29:24 <rick-home> Myspace, as rwhitby pointed out, allows comments on comments, but still distinguishes between comments and posts...   which is horrifically complex.
Nov 29 04:30:48 <kesne_> Heh alright
Nov 29 04:31:01 <rick-home> kesne_  what do you want the eventual user to see?  Do you want to distinguish between "you have unread comments on your posts"  and "there are unread comments on posts by others you have commented on"  and "there are unread comments on posts by others you have NOT commented on, but have flagged the poster as interesting"  and "there are unread comments on posts by others where you have flagged
Nov 29 04:31:01 <rick-home> the COMMENTER as interesting."
Nov 29 04:31:21 <rick-home> That sort of distinction is similar to the alert mechanism used by Huffington Post.
Nov 29 04:31:56 <rick-home> The design of the database has to reflect the goals of the UI.  What do you want to be able to say?  then, you design the DB so that you can ask those questions easily.
Nov 29 04:32:51 <kesne_> Alright.
Nov 29 04:33:18 <rick-home> Now, recognize that you need TWO stores here....
Nov 29 04:33:44 <rick-home> one (might be two tables) is the posts/comments store, and the other is the "what have I read?" store.
Nov 29 04:33:52 <kesne_> I need to get you on this project... Heh
Nov 29 04:34:13 * halfhalo would totally use a sql db for messages
Nov 29 04:34:14 <rick-home> Then, you also have a database that is the "who's messages are interesting?  which may require several tables, to distinguish between posters and commenters.
Nov 29 04:34:22 * rick-home would to.
Nov 29 04:35:37 <kesne_> This is the only part of this that I really don't know how to do.
Nov 29 04:35:38 <rick-home> So, eventually, if you've done it right you can write a SINGLE sql command that says:  return the message ID's out of the message store for people I find interesting, where those message ID are NOT found in the "messages I've read" db.
Nov 29 04:35:57 <kesne_> Alright.
Nov 29 04:36:04 * halfhalo loves orm's for that
Nov 29 04:36:30 <kesne_> You should get in on villo
Nov 29 04:36:32 * rick-home loves left outer joins on non-existant links.
Nov 29 04:36:39 <rick-home> No kesne_  I don't have time.
Nov 29 04:36:51 <kesne_> Darn, heh
Nov 29 04:37:11 <rick-home> but do you get my point?  You have to design the db's and design the sql commands BEFORE you write the PHP.  The php is the easy part. It's just code.
Nov 29 04:37:21 <kesne_> Yeah
Nov 29 04:37:25 <kesne_> I get it
Nov 29 04:37:27 <rick-home> the sql commands are the hard part, and they require that you be able to say WHAT YOU WANT in english first.
Nov 29 04:38:14 <torchie> SELECT DERP FROM HERP
Nov 29 04:38:37 <rick-home> So, do you want to be able to ask "Show me new posts for people I'm interested in."  differentiated from "show me a list of posts which have unread COMMENTS by people I'm interested in."  If you want to distinguish between those two questions, you have to set up your data structures so you can ask those IN A SINGLE SQL QUERY.
Nov 29 04:38:51 <kesne_> Im just going to put this off until I get someone to help
Nov 29 04:38:56 <wastrel> in a single nosql entry
Nov 29 04:39:08 <kesne_> I've got other stuff to work on anyways
Nov 29 04:39:13 <rwhitby> do it on a couch
Nov 29 04:39:42 * halfhalo notes couch does not lend itself to this application
Nov 29 04:39:48 <rick-home> Here's what I'll do.  If you can write some paragraphs that describe what you want it to do, I'll be happy to help with the sql design.  But you have to DECIDE what you want it to do first.
Nov 29 04:40:00 * rick-home agrees with halfhalo
Nov 29 04:40:08 <kesne_> Really? Sweet
Nov 29 04:40:22 <rwhitby> halfhalo: you just haven't reframed the problem as a nail yet
Nov 29 04:40:34 <kesne_> Will do, rick!
Nov 29 04:40:34 <rick-home> recognize that I may toss it back to you six to ten times pointing out that you have not really defined a spec yet.  :-)
Nov 29 04:40:45 <halfhalo> hah
Nov 29 04:40:46 <kesne_> Heh
Nov 29 04:40:53 <rick-home> and don't give me pseudo-code.  I want english.
Nov 29 04:41:30 <rick-home> the moment you start thinking in code, you've closed off lots of good options.  During the design process, stay as far away from code as possible.
Nov 29 04:41:41 <kesne_> Haha, im the last guy to do that
Nov 29 04:41:44 <torchie> code is dead
Nov 29 04:42:03 <kesne_> Just like god
Nov 29 04:43:08 <torchie> TOTT
Nov 29 04:43:29 <rick-home> Also, and this is really important.  All great software products require completely tossing out the design and starting over at least once.  By the time you've put in enough hours, you can see where you went baddly wrong and start over clean.  This has been done with Preware once, and is about to be done again when they move to a db8 implementation.
Nov 29 04:44:41 <kesne_> Ah I see
Nov 29 04:45:51 <rick-home> my main bread-and-butter program we live and die by every day has been baby-and-bath-water re-written three times, and we're going to be starting the FOURTH re-write this summer.
Nov 29 04:46:32 <mugen-> anyone know why http://omnipotent.net/jquery.sparkline/#quickstart wouldn't work in webos?
Nov 29 04:46:55 <mugen-> i just need a sparkline lib for a projcet
Nov 29 04:46:58 <mugen-> project*
Nov 29 04:47:19 <rick-home> no idea.  Looks like it ought to.
Nov 29 04:47:23 <rick-home> what happens?
Nov 29 04:47:51 <mugen-> well.. i'm only doing -> $('.inlinesparkline').sparkline();
Nov 29 04:47:52 <mugen-> in my init
Nov 29 04:48:00 <mugen-> which i'm sure is wrong...
Nov 29 04:48:19 <rick-home> uh
Nov 29 04:48:31 <rick-home> can you pastebin the js file in question?
Nov 29 04:48:42 <mugen-> sure... hold on
Nov 29 04:50:16 <mugen-> http://pastebin.ca/2005320
Nov 29 04:50:18 <mugen-> .js
Nov 29 04:50:48 <mugen-> http://pastebin.ca/2005323
Nov 29 04:50:49 <mugen-> .htmlo
Nov 29 04:50:50 <rick-home> also, in your sources.json, you have jquery, and jquery.sparkline.js loading ABOVE the first scene...
Nov 29 04:50:54 <mugen-> .html
Nov 29 04:51:00 <mugen-> yes
Nov 29 04:51:27 <rick-home> above them, as the second or third line in the sources.json....
Nov 29 04:51:41 <mugen-> http://pastebin.ca/2005325
Nov 29 04:51:50 <mugen-> that's what sources.json looks like
Nov 29 04:53:42 <mugen-> hey kgf
Nov 29 04:53:52 <rick-home> ok.  You put the .inlinesparkline command in setup. that's wrong.  Setup executes BEFORE the html is rendered.  You need to put that command in ACTIVATE
Nov 29 04:53:57 <KGF2009> Evening.
Nov 29 04:54:04 <mugen-> kk
Nov 29 04:54:22 <rick-home> note in the sparkline example how they say " /** This code runs when everything has been loaded on the page */
Nov 29 04:54:23 <rick-home>         $('.inlinesparkline').sparkline();
Nov 29 04:54:41 <rick-home> in setup, NOTHING has been loaded into the page.
Nov 29 04:54:57 <rick-home> activate happens AFTER the html has been rendered.
Nov 29 04:55:06 <mugen-> yeah... just realized that
Nov 29 04:56:28 <rick-home> it's a common problem with webos programmers, and one of the main reasons I try to get people to move to ares, where you don't have to deal with that crap.
Nov 29 04:56:37 <rick-home> It's part of why I'm looking forward to enyo as well.
Nov 29 04:56:56 <rick-home> will sparkline work with mobile jquery which would reduce your overhead?
Nov 29 04:58:42 * rick-home off to bed. night all.
Nov 29 04:58:51 <torchie> could you develop something like paratrooper in ares?
Nov 29 04:59:09 <torchie> paratrooper wasn't based on anything PDK; it was all web programming I believe
Nov 29 04:59:57 <torchie> same with that one doodlejump clone that ran at the speed of a native-coded app; though that one had very few objects on screen in comparison to paratrooper
Nov 29 05:10:15 <KGF2009> If I'm using a wi-fi connection for data, nothing goes through verizon right?
Nov 29 05:11:46 <torchie> nothing but your dignity
Nov 29 05:11:56 <KGF2009> XD
Nov 29 06:22:55 <maik> any of you guys experienced with Adobe AIR?
Nov 29 06:49:32 <torchie> mojo will use the hardware CSS transformations right?
Nov 29 06:52:13 <torchie> in 2.0
Nov 29 06:52:47 <SineOt> dunno if that's been talked about at all anywhere or tested
Nov 29 06:53:55 <torchie> hmm
Nov 29 06:54:25 <torchie> would I be able to write something that would wrap around mojo code that I could switch to enyo in the long run?
Nov 29 06:54:57 <SineOt> not knowing what enyo will look like it's hard to say
Nov 29 06:55:02 <torchie> hmm
Nov 29 06:55:19 <SineOt> like Palm has said though Mojo is sticking around for a long time
Nov 29 06:55:42 <SineOt> so it wouldn't surprise me to see it exist for at least another year after Enyo is released
Nov 29 07:21:36 <swisstomcat> morning
Nov 29 07:21:43 <halfhalo> mornin
Nov 29 07:42:36 <hotdp> Good morgning
Nov 29 07:45:15 <swisstomcat> morning hotdp
Nov 29 07:48:02 <hotdp> swisstomcat how is the little one?
Nov 29 07:48:18 <swisstomcat> he's doing fine
Nov 29 07:48:34 <hotdp> Perfect :D My girlfirend loved the image :)
Nov 29 07:48:47 <swisstomcat> so tiny
Nov 29 07:48:54 <swisstomcat> compared to the older one
Nov 29 07:51:51 <hotdp> compared to how the older is now? :D
Nov 29 07:54:01 <swisstomcat> yeah
Nov 29 07:54:05 <swisstomcat> they grow up so fast
Nov 29 07:54:13 <hotdp> :)
Nov 29 08:20:03 <hotdp> swisstomcat
Nov 29 08:20:26 <hotdp> Our "last" telecompany with simlock has just that they will stop with sim lock :D
Nov 29 08:20:34 <hotdp> *said
Nov 29 08:21:36 <swisstomcat> nice
Nov 29 12:35:37 <b0bben> phb: svennebanan?
Nov 29 14:15:14 <Bmyers> morn'n
Nov 29 14:27:55 <hotdp> hey
Nov 29 14:32:22 <Bmyers> hotdp: !!! \0/
Nov 29 14:45:59 <haeffb> hotdp !!! \0/
Nov 29 14:46:06 <haeffb> and Peter.
Nov 29 14:46:15 <haeffb> hey Bmyers
Nov 29 14:46:52 <Bmyers> haeffb: !!!! \0/
Nov 29 14:47:44 * haeffb skipping work today to try to recuperate from this #webOSdev crud.
Nov 29 14:48:46 <Bmyers> seriously ? you're still milking that one?
Nov 29 14:48:54 <torchie> :o
Nov 29 16:22:16 <MetaView> hi
Nov 29 16:30:28 <haeffb> MetaView - howdy.
Nov 29 16:30:44 <MetaView> howdy haeffb
Nov 29 16:34:22 <CTLAdvance> hello everyone
Nov 29 16:35:55 <pandora--> hiyo
Nov 29 16:36:07 * haeffb can't get motivated to work on apps...
Nov 29 16:36:19 <pandora--> floundering trying to figure out where i left off before the holiday
Nov 29 16:39:01 <MetaView> http://www.flickr.com/photos/metaview/5217768983/
Nov 29 16:39:26 <MetaView> even got a HP logog on this pic ;)
Nov 29 16:53:39 <CosOt> wtf
Nov 29 17:09:11 <shades> who hollard
Nov 29 17:10:53 <pandora--> eh?
Nov 29 17:13:09 * haeffb looking at Ares. Confusing.
Nov 29 17:14:27 <haeffb> have to add a scroller BEFORE you add a list
Nov 29 17:16:46 <InfiniteLoop> haeffb: its even more confusing to add items to a list widget, hoping to solve this mystery later today
Nov 29 17:24:19 <haeffb> what is rowIsTextField setting?
Nov 29 17:34:51 <Tibfib> haeffb: have you looked at the docs for ares? are they any good?
Nov 29 17:35:10 * Tibfib hopes the enyo docs don
Nov 29 17:35:14 <Tibfib> don't suck
Nov 29 17:35:29 <SineOt> hah, the docs for ares being good? D:
Nov 29 17:36:00 <Rick_work> the docs for ares suck.  Part of that is that work on Ares got suspended when Matt McNulty took over OS development.  Ares is about 3/4 of what they intended.  Enyo is the real deal.
Nov 29 17:36:25 <Tibfib> Rick_work: that's both bad and good to hear
Nov 29 17:36:35 <Tibfib> Good in the long run I guess
Nov 29 17:37:22 <deliciousmorsel> if the SDK's docs suck
Nov 29 17:37:29 <deliciousmorsel> and the ares docs suck
Nov 29 17:37:37 <deliciousmorsel> i'm pretty sure enyo's docs will suck
Nov 29 17:37:39 <Rick_work> on the other hand,  I have an intro to ares development that'ss pretty good, it was the proposal doc for the ares book I had planned until the development froze.
Nov 29 17:38:17 <haeffb> hi chuqui
Nov 29 17:38:26 * Tibfib doesn't want to learn the function names for enyo/ares\
Nov 29 17:38:37 <Rick_work> Tibfib  you don't really need to.
Nov 29 17:39:01 <Tibfib> what do you mean? I know I'll be able to look them up, but it slows things down
Nov 29 17:39:31 <Rick_work> you almost always can access the functions you want through the properties bar on the right of ares.
Nov 29 17:39:36 <SineOt> with most of Ares you really don't need to do anything
Nov 29 17:39:57 <SineOt> it's just there's a few Ares widgets with zero documentation at all that are just kind of in the dark (at least for me, never could figure them out)
Nov 29 17:40:24 <Tibfib> Rick_work: I don't really want to use ares :/
Nov 29 17:40:37 <Rick_work> why not?
Nov 29 17:40:46 <chuqui> haeffb: morning!
Nov 29 17:40:59 <Tibfib> Rick_work: I like my notepad++
Nov 29 17:41:07 <Rick_work> life is hard.
Nov 29 17:41:11 <Tibfib> hah!
Nov 29 17:41:28 <Rick_work> use ares, copy the shell bits into notepad, and then paste them back in
Nov 29 17:41:40 <Tibfib> That's probably what I'll end up doing
Nov 29 17:41:45 <Tibfib> that would be sweet
Nov 29 17:42:33 <SineOt> morning chuqui
Nov 29 17:42:37 <Rick_work> see http://www.vocshop.com/rick/ares_ch3.doc
Nov 29 17:42:39 <Tibfib> haeffb: so for that add item textfield problem earlier, I'm just going to position a text field on top of the add item
Nov 29 17:45:24 * haeffb about to add a tip calculator to my resume...
Nov 29 17:45:45 <SineOt> Rick_work: skimming that... You wrote better stuff about Ares than Palm did D:>
Nov 29 17:46:02 <SineOt> didn't know that dev got frozen on Ares though. I guess that explains why some of it seems so half baked
Nov 29 17:49:02 <haeffb> soon as I get done building this FlikrSearch app
Nov 29 17:49:11 <Tibfib> heh
Nov 29 17:51:24 <Tibfib> haeffb: rss reader?
Nov 29 17:51:57 <haeffb> doing the Ares tutorial
Nov 29 17:52:07 <haeffb> I can search for puppy pics on Flikr
Nov 29 17:52:08 <Anivrom|pre> Tib to the fib
Nov 29 17:52:17 <Tibfib> Anivrom|pre!
Nov 29 17:52:18 <haeffb> Anivrom|pre !!!
Nov 29 17:52:19 <Tibfib> howdy
Nov 29 17:52:38 <Anivrom|pre> haeffb: can it be? You are being converted to the dark side?
Nov 29 17:52:48 <Tibfib> lol
Nov 29 17:53:20 <Anivrom|pre> Way to go buddy. Finally someone with some commen sense :)
Nov 29 17:53:30 <Tibfib> so is copy/paste retooled in webOS 2.0? http://twitter.com/#!/vara411/status/9274302473969664
Nov 29 17:53:30 <Rick_work> SineOt That was the point.  I had a book under contract, but we agreed to kill it.
Nov 29 17:53:46 <Tibfib> Rick_work: you should write the enyo book.
Nov 29 17:54:08 <Rick_work> I'm going to make that proposal to palm/hp.
Nov 29 17:54:10 <Schalla> Is Enyo already released?
Nov 29 17:54:21 <Rick_work> Developer preview expected just after Jan 1
Nov 29 17:54:25 <Tibfib> Rick_work: nice
Nov 29 17:54:27 <haeffb> Anivrom|pre: turns out that Ares is the future of webOS. Who would have thought....?
Nov 29 17:54:35 <Anivrom|pre> What's the release date of 2.0?
Nov 29 17:54:43 <Rick_work> 2.0 is out.
Nov 29 17:54:46 <SineOt> No one knows really
Nov 29 17:54:50 <Anivrom|pre> haeffb: I woulda thought, and did think even.
Nov 29 17:54:55 <Tibfib> can we submit 2.0 apps yet?
Nov 29 17:54:55 <Rick_work> or do you mean 2.0 for pre- devices....
Nov 29 17:55:04 <SineOt> 2.0 SDK is still NDA, and nothing other than "coming months" for Pre/Pixi devices
Nov 29 17:55:14 <Anivrom|pre> Rick_work: that one
Nov 29 17:55:44 <Schalla> @Sine0t: A shame :(
Nov 29 17:56:07 <Anivrom|pre> I've been getting back into vb.net recently so webos dev is kinda on the BB
Nov 29 17:58:06 <Anivrom|pre> But I've been out of the game so lon its like having itchy balls but not being able to scratch them, frustrating as heck but when you finally get it, it feels so good
Nov 29 17:58:27 <Anivrom|pre> ...er...or something like that
Nov 29 17:59:00 * haeffb needs a bigger monitor to code in Ares
Nov 29 17:59:32 <SineOt> haeffb: Dell's cyber monday sale has 1080p 21" for 189$...!
Nov 29 17:59:42 <Anivrom|pre> Lol. Yea the extra windows take a bit of room if you don't hide them
Nov 29 18:00:02 <halfhalo> bah, 21"
Nov 29 18:00:53 <Rick_work> haeffb  that's very true.  21inch wide screen is not quite optimal.  23 works fine.
Nov 29 18:01:14 * halfhalo has a 23" 2048x1152 sammy
Nov 29 18:01:20 <SineOt> I don't even think a 23 would fit in my desk... D:
Nov 29 18:01:46 <SineOt> What a weirdass res. How old is it?
Nov 29 18:02:25 <halfhalo> like a year
Nov 29 18:03:08 <halfhalo> I heart it
Nov 29 18:03:54 <Anivrom|pre> Codes in ares with a 17 inch panasonic he got from a thrift store 8 years ago and a 2nd 17 inch budget monitor
Nov 29 18:04:01 <Anivrom|pre> ./me
Nov 29 18:04:07 * SineOt is using a... 10" 1024x600
Nov 29 18:04:51 * haeffb is coding on a 15" laptop sitting on my lap. A 23" monitor definitely wouldn't fit on my lap.
Nov 29 18:05:01 <Anivrom|pre> My panasonic cost me 20 bucks and its the best monitor I've ever had
Nov 29 18:05:25 * Tibfib uses similar setup to haeffb
Nov 29 18:05:26 <Anivrom|pre> Lasted me this long
Nov 29 18:05:27 * halfhalo is coding on a shiny 24" dell ips right now
Nov 29 18:05:43 * Anivrom|pre hates halfhalo
Nov 29 18:05:53 <Anivrom|pre> ''like... Alot
Nov 29 18:06:36 <halfhalo> :p
Nov 29 18:06:38 * SineOt finds himself really wishing he had finished setting up that VPN last night. :C
Nov 29 18:07:25 * Rick_work left monitor 1280x1024 20 inch lg lcd, center 15" laptop 1280x800, right 20 inch lg lcd 1280x1024. Very happy with this arrangement.
Nov 29 18:08:02 <mugen-> sine, what kind of VPN are you using?
Nov 29 18:08:06 * Anivrom|pre finds himself wishing he could figure out why his vb.net program is throwing an error on code that successfully works 1 line previous
Nov 29 18:08:12 * halfhalo has a 21" asus 1080p, his 23" sammy, and a 16080x1050 viewsonic in /-\ arrangement
Nov 29 18:08:35 <SineOt> None right now, but I need some files off an FTP I'm not supposed to access from a public hotspot. Was playing with OpenVPN last night
Nov 29 18:08:56 <SineOt> gave up when Ubuntu decided that some dialogs aren't going to be useable over VNC 83 gg++
Nov 29 18:09:15 <mugen-> ah
Nov 29 18:09:59 <SineOt> I'll probably just tether my phone in a bit to get what I need...
Nov 29 18:10:25 <Anivrom|pre> anyone have .net experience?
Nov 29 18:12:12 <Anivrom|pre> I see I see
Nov 29 18:14:29 <SineOt> Sprint fired up 4G in the area. I wonder if we get it at the house <:3
Nov 29 18:14:47 <SineOt> Sad fact: 4G pulls down about 2x as fast as our home DSL :C
Nov 29 18:14:48 * halfhalo gets 4g outside the building
Nov 29 18:22:56 <torchie> I don't find that unbelievable
Nov 29 18:23:00 <torchie> my home dsl is balls :(
Nov 29 18:30:02 <Tibfib> can you set up widgets that get rendered in a template via Mojo.View.render?
Nov 29 18:32:01 <alexfner> hey hey
Nov 29 18:32:26 <mugen-> o\ alex
Nov 29 18:34:16 <SineOt> ~oh Ubuntu Unity~
Nov 29 18:35:27 <pandora--> i hardly get sprint 2g at my house
Nov 29 18:35:36 <pandora--> i usually end up roaming to verizon at home
Nov 29 18:35:40 <alexfner> spent my thanksgiving break working on iPad+WebSockets+Canvas
Nov 29 18:35:44 <alexfner> results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY5hOzyYn3w
Nov 29 18:35:47 <pandora--> fuckers and their lying coverage map
Nov 29 18:35:55 <alexfner> this is why webOS needs WebSockets + touch events
Nov 29 18:36:55 <Rick_work> pandora--  assuming you have good wired connectivity at home, and essentially zero sprint service in your home, you are aware that if you complain about that, that sprint will waive the monthly charge for a femtocell for you to run in your home to provide wireless coverage in the house.
Nov 29 18:37:16 <pandora--> Rick_work: i have one of those, and it is waived
Nov 29 18:37:25 <rsanchez1> touch events? I thought webOS already had those
Nov 29 18:37:26 <Rick_work> oh good.
Nov 29 18:37:38 <pandora--> Rick_work: but the second i walk into anywhere in my neighborhood... teh sucksucksuck
Nov 29 18:37:40 <Rick_work> webOS does, the PDK does not.
Nov 29 18:37:57 <alexfner> rsanchez1: touch start, move, end
Nov 29 18:37:59 <alexfner> I think not
Nov 29 18:38:06 <Rick_work> PDK has only SDL mouse events...
Nov 29 18:38:27 <rsanchez1> well it has those for multitouch
Nov 29 18:39:02 <rsanchez1> gesturestart, gesturechange, gestureend, but yes I don't think it has those events for single-touch
Nov 29 18:40:56 <rsanchez1> and if it's for PDK, you have regular sockets
Nov 29 18:42:42 <rsanchez1> speaking of PDK, I have a question on hybrid apps
Nov 29 18:42:56 <SineOt> wow... The Pre has some awful clock drift :/
Nov 29 18:43:14 <rsanchez1> I understand that when you call a plugin method, the call is "synchronous", in that you have to wait for a response from the plugin for the javascript side to continue
Nov 29 18:43:40 <rsanchez1> how can I get the javascript side to continue and have the plugin side continue as well, in other words have it "synchronous"?
Nov 29 18:43:48 <rsanchez1> err, asynchronous on that last one
Nov 29 18:44:32 <SineOt> 48 hours and it's already drifted almost 5 hours! (!!!)
Nov 29 18:45:30 <rsanchez1> I know you can call PDL_CallJS later, but which is the function that allows the javascript to continue?
Nov 29 18:45:48 * Tibfib wonders why an enter key can't send a propertychange event in a textfield..
Nov 29 18:46:19 <rsanchez1> Tidfib: could it be that it's sending a submit event?
Nov 29 18:47:15 <rsanchez1> SineOt: so the clock is kept in-sync over the web, and if the phone is not connected the clock drifts
Nov 29 18:47:17 <rsanchez1> ?
Nov 29 18:47:47 <Tibfib> rsanchez1: what is a submit event?
Nov 29 18:47:59 <SineOt> rsanchez1: I think it only syncs over the cellular network. This has been connected to wifi since I got it. Either way, a 5 hour drift over 48 hours is -insane-
Nov 29 18:48:25 <Tibfib> rsanchez1: yeah, submit doesn't exist ... https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1859&Itemid=248
Nov 29 18:48:35 <rsanchez1> oh, just wondering
Nov 29 18:48:49 <deliciousmorsel> requiresEnterKey
Nov 29 18:48:52 <deliciousmorsel> do you have that set
Nov 29 18:48:57 <deliciousmorsel> what bout changeOnKeyPress
Nov 29 18:49:02 <rsanchez1> wait, actually you can use a lot of events that aren't in the Mojo.Event object
Nov 29 18:49:17 <rsanchez1> for example the html5 audio events
Nov 29 18:49:39 <Tibfib> deliciousmorsel: if you do both requiresEnterKey and changeOnKeyPress it will send a prop change?
Nov 29 18:49:44 <deliciousmorsel> chuqui: can you PLEASE add a link to the "reference Library" on the front page of the developer portal
Nov 29 18:49:54 <deliciousmorsel> Tibfib: i believe so
Nov 29 18:50:04 * Tibfib will have to try later
Nov 29 18:50:07 <Tibfib> back to homework
Nov 29 18:50:09 <Tibfib> adios all
Nov 29 18:50:39 <deliciousmorsel> chuqui: its impossible to find the Reference Library from browsing and yet it is the most important page on the site
Nov 29 18:50:52 <deliciousmorsel> the developer portal is a usability nightmare
Nov 29 18:50:59 <chuqui> deliciousmorsel:  i'll mention it to the site owner.
Nov 29 18:51:08 <deliciousmorsel> thank you!
Nov 29 18:51:09 <Tibfib> deliciousmorsel: I installed a greasemonkey script that adds a ref link
Nov 29 18:51:20 <Tibfib> and auto logs me in
Nov 29 18:51:27 <Tibfib> search the forums for it
Nov 29 18:51:32 <deliciousmorsel> lol. thats funny that someone made a gm script for that
Nov 29 18:51:35 <deliciousmorsel> its that needed!
Nov 29 18:51:54 <Tibfib> oh wait
Nov 29 18:52:01 <Tibfib> it adds "latest posts" and "my posts" links
Nov 29 18:52:11 <deliciousmorsel> for hte forums?
Nov 29 18:52:31 <Tibfib> deliciousmorsel: ref library is two clicks from home page. "Dev guide" --> "Ref Library"
Nov 29 18:52:33 <deliciousmorsel> it would be nice to be able to get to the forums in one click
Nov 29 18:52:58 <deliciousmorsel> wow never saw that link for it on the dev guide
Nov 29 18:52:59 <Tibfib> it adds next to "My Apps" "Sign Out"...
Nov 29 18:53:11 <deliciousmorsel> still needs it on the front page
Nov 29 18:53:17 <deliciousmorsel> as well as a downloadable pdf
Nov 29 18:53:21 <deliciousmorsel> or something like that
Nov 29 18:53:33 <deliciousmorsel> its needs something like apple's stuff
Nov 29 18:53:35 <deliciousmorsel> its easy to find
Nov 29 18:53:38 <deliciousmorsel> and easy to search through
Nov 29 18:53:46 <Tibfib> yeah, search sucks
Nov 29 18:53:49 <Tibfib> okay, now I'm gone
Nov 29 18:55:59 <dohtem> Tibfib: what script is this ?
Nov 29 18:56:07 <SineOt> I am so, so glad that webOS is based on webkit... even if it IS an ancient version of webkit
Nov 29 18:56:36 <SineOt> chuqui: maybe webOS 3.0 can support @font-face embeds, yeah? <:3
Nov 29 18:56:58 <rsanchez1> I don't think you can call any version of webkit ancient when you compare it to Trident...
Nov 29 18:57:04 <chuqui> SineOt:  If it were up to me, webOs would have supportd @font-face months ago.
Nov 29 18:57:36 <SineOt> rsanchez1: from looking at the patches released, I think it's build using a version from October 2009... So it's ancient :p
Nov 29 18:57:55 <SineOt> chuqui: heh, where do I sign for my support to get you put in charge of making that decision? ;3
Nov 29 18:58:38 <rsanchez1> haha well for webkit it's ancient, but looking at other options out there, webkit seems like it was from the future or something
Nov 29 18:58:39 <SineOt> rsanchez1: it's old enough that it doesn't have a lot of the 3D CSS transforms (which are pretty awesome)
Nov 29 19:00:02 <SineOt> but hey, it supports almost all of the CSS animations and transforms, so :3
Nov 29 19:00:45 <NuttyBunny> Wow! deliciousmorsel is here! :P
Nov 29 19:00:48 * NuttyBunny bows
Nov 29 19:01:39 <SineOt> chuqui: if I find some weird bugs with CSS transforms + mojo widgets, should I even bother to report them since they're so lunatic fringe that no one will probably ever run into them in actual usage? :p
Nov 29 19:05:24 <rsanchez1> today's lunatic fringe could be tomorrows breakthrough game...
Nov 29 19:06:02 <SineOt> rsanchez1: lol, yeah... because animating mojo toggle sliders to scale backwards to -1 is going to be sooooooooo useable ;p
Nov 29 19:06:33 <CTLAdvance> I think ill make a game called linatic fridge
Nov 29 19:08:06 <chuqui> SineOt: yes, so we can at least get them in the system and rag on the developers for causing them.
Nov 29 19:08:36 <SineOt> chuqui: haha, okay. Should I just post about them on the forums?
Nov 29 19:10:19 <chuqui> SineOt: yup. thanks!
Nov 29 19:10:35 <SineOt> I'll even get screenshots since it's hard to explain what happens XD
Nov 29 19:17:40 <SineOt> Hmm. I'm debating if I should just pop a scene for preferences, or do some fancy transitions and have a small DIV slide into view when pressing the prefs button.
Nov 29 19:24:21 <SineOt> aaaaaaaand now I learn that HFS+ support in Linux is pretty lacking, oops.
Nov 29 19:30:58 <Loudergood> yeah it's pretty lacking everywhere
Nov 29 19:32:41 <SineOt> Apparently it's better if you disable journalling on the drive... Hm.
Nov 29 19:37:16 <mugen-> is a mint condition pixi plus worth $50 to just have?
Nov 29 19:37:25 <Loudergood> yes
Nov 29 19:37:41 <Loudergood> hell it's probably still worth more than that on ebay
Nov 29 19:37:57 <mugen-> what's all this talk about battery cover separating?
Nov 29 19:37:59 <rsanchez1> if you're a developer it's worth it
Nov 29 19:38:13 <Loudergood> I grabbed a droid eris for $30 for dev
Nov 29 19:38:22 * mugen- shudders
Nov 29 19:38:31 <mugen-> god that was a horrific phone
Nov 29 19:38:43 <Loudergood> haha indeed
Nov 29 19:39:02 <rsanchez1> but it has android...
Nov 29 19:39:03 <Loudergood> I figure if I can get it to run well there, it'll run like a champ on anything else
Nov 29 19:39:13 <mugen-> oh absolutely
Nov 29 19:39:31 <mugen-> rsanchez, but it was a choppy processor with senseUI :(
Nov 29 19:39:34 <mugen-> sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow
Nov 29 19:39:41 * rsanchez1 wishes there was an easy way to express sarcasm on the internet without saying you're being sarcastic
Nov 29 19:39:49 <mugen-> oh
Nov 29 19:39:53 <mugen-> dur
Nov 29 19:40:10 <SineOt> Heh. setSubtleLightbar: true turns the lightbar off on the pre/pre+, but on the pixi, doesn't seem to do anything
Nov 29 19:40:19 <Loudergood> it's not too bad now that I've rooted it and put the latest version on there, but then I haven't used it, and I find android awkward anyway
Nov 29 19:40:34 <pandora--> Loudergood: agreed
Nov 29 19:40:42 <SineOt> mugen-: the touchstone cover is two layers, a hard plastic inner layer and a soft touch rubber outer layer, with the TS internals sandwiched between the two or something
Nov 29 19:40:43 <pandora--> i tried to go android a few months ago
Nov 29 19:40:48 <Loudergood> actually everything feels awkward after webos
Nov 29 19:40:53 <pandora--> Loudergood: but i came back to webos after a month
Nov 29 19:40:58 <Loudergood> palm has ruined me
Nov 29 19:41:05 <SineOt> along the edges, it's pretty common for the soft touch rubber outer layer to start seperating from the hard plastic layer
Nov 29 19:41:06 <pandora--> heh yeah
Nov 29 19:41:20 <pandora--> Loudergood: unfortunately nobody wants it.  :(
Nov 29 19:41:22 <SineOt> normally starts around the power button and migrates down the left side of the phone :c
Nov 29 19:41:37 <pandora--> Pre2 launch and it's hardly even in the states, no stores carry it
Nov 29 19:41:45 <pandora--> nobody cares about the Pre2
Nov 29 19:42:01 <mugen-> sine, ahh... thanks for that. i'm assuming it's worse with heavy use?
Nov 29 19:42:15 <Loudergood> well, phones in the us are pretty much sold and marketed by the carriers so I wouldn't worry just yet
Nov 29 19:42:20 <mugen-> i'm just going to put it in the closet for when i need to test on or whatever
Nov 29 19:42:32 <SineOt> I think I count as heavy use, but it's not THAT bad, but it's kind of annoying. Only happens on the TS cover as far as I know
Nov 29 19:42:33 <Loudergood> they're slow as hell with their approval proccesses
Nov 29 19:42:45 <mugen-> kk
Nov 29 19:42:59 <SineOt> mugen-: even then it's mostly just cosmetic. I haven't noticed any actual problems. It just looks ugly
Nov 29 19:43:11 <mugen-> gotcha
Nov 29 19:43:41 <mugen-> anyone here daily drive a pixi?
Nov 29 19:43:46 <pandora--> Loudergood: even so, the pre2 hardly competes in the market today
Nov 29 19:44:02 <pandora--> mugen-: my wife did until she dropped it off a 4 story building on accident
Nov 29 19:44:07 <pandora--> whoops.
Nov 29 19:44:08 <mugen-> ack
Nov 29 19:44:12 <SineOt> mugen-: what do you mean? I've owned mine since like, 2 days after launch (yes, I switched carriers to get it :I ) and have been happy with it since
Nov 29 19:44:25 <pandora--> mugen-: now she uses my android dev phone
Nov 29 19:44:27 <pandora--> heh
Nov 29 19:44:39 <mugen-> i've heard stories about it being sluggish
Nov 29 19:44:46 <Loudergood> yeah, the phone market is going through the 19" laptop phase right now..it still has a lot of maturing to do
Nov 29 19:44:56 <pandora--> hahahaha
Nov 29 19:45:08 <b0bben> evening all
Nov 29 19:45:14 <SineOt> it can be yeah... it was pretty miserable with 1.2.9 on it when I got it. Lots of stuttering issues, things like that
Nov 29 19:45:17 <Loudergood> it sounds cool until you actually have to move it somewhere
Nov 29 19:45:34 <mugen-> ...1.4.5 cheered it up?
Nov 29 19:45:52 <SineOt> but under 1.4.5 it's a lot smoother. I think a lot of the problems that people saw with it were mostly just due to Palm not knowing wtf they were doing with it since it's a completely different chipset and everything
Nov 29 19:45:56 <pandora--> Loudergood: i dunno, a lot of people REALLY like the droidx/evo size
Nov 29 19:45:58 <SineOt> oh yeah, a lot. a whole lot
Nov 29 19:46:17 <pandora--> Loudergood: and every android manufacturer right now is coming out with a model of the same size
Nov 29 19:46:35 <Loudergood> exactly
Nov 29 19:46:38 <mugen-> i like the 4" screen size
Nov 29 19:46:41 <mugen-> it's perfect
Nov 29 19:46:49 <mugen-> ...just needs webOS damnit :(
Nov 29 19:47:39 <Loudergood> pre2 is a really nice piece of hardware to hold though.
Nov 29 19:47:49 <Loudergood> just wish I could get one that was cdma
Nov 29 19:47:56 <pandora--> yup
Nov 29 19:48:16 <mugen-> is the hardware really feel that different in your hand?
Nov 29 19:48:30 <mugen-> that's been my only quip about the pre
Nov 29 19:48:33 <Loudergood> much more solid
Nov 29 19:48:36 <mugen-> just feels like a plastic stone
Nov 29 19:49:07 <SineOt> Loudergood: does it still have a paint scraper bottom edge on the keyboard?
Nov 29 19:49:22 <Loudergood> unfortunately yet
Nov 29 19:49:26 <Loudergood> *yes
Nov 29 19:49:29 <SineOt> trying to adjust to typing on the Pre is hard coming from the Pixi... The pixi keyboard is seriously just so much better it's not even funny
Nov 29 19:51:55 * SineOt is seriously considering taking some fine grit sandpaper to the edge under the keyboard on the Pre...
Nov 29 20:06:19 <rsanchez1> 3.5" side is the biggest I will go
Nov 29 20:06:30 <rsanchez1> 4" = will not fit in pocket
Nov 29 20:06:31 <funkatron> it helps to have long fingernails with the Pre
Nov 29 20:06:57 <rsanchez1> seriously, Pixi keyboard just pwns Pre keyboard
Nov 29 20:07:05 <SineOt> nah, it's more that I hold my Pixi from the sides completely. Can't do that with the Pre. Need a finger under it to support it... Which grinds on that paint scraper edge :C
Nov 29 20:07:10 <rsanchez1> I don't get it either, why put the superior keyboard on the inferior device?
Nov 29 20:07:37 <Loudergood> rsanchez1: depends, my brother(who wears his pants 3 sizes too large and down low) could drop the dell streak in his pocket no problem
Nov 29 20:07:39 <rsanchez1> I just like how the Pixi keyboard feels, it feels more like a real keyboard
Nov 29 20:08:19 <rsanchez1> Loudergood: I don't wear my pants 3 sizes too large, just the size I am, and I wear a belt too, none of that down low stuff
Nov 29 20:12:42 <b0bben> phew...update sent to palm
Nov 29 20:13:08 <b0bben> stupid google for commiting stuff into the trunk...and stupid me for not versioning my calls to gmaps api
Nov 29 20:15:44 <MetaView> How to fill a semi-transparent rectangle in SDL?
Nov 29 20:37:45 <SineOt> Mode Switcher is awesome for development... :9
Nov 29 20:41:54 <mugen-> mode switcher is awesome for any time
Nov 29 20:42:25 <mugen-> touchstone/left run clock app no lock screen
Nov 29 20:42:30 <mugen-> ftw
Nov 29 20:43:05 <SineOt> well, yeah. I use it on my Pixi all the time (I built a sleep mode, it's AMAZING)
Nov 29 20:43:12 <SineOt> but it's extra helpful for dev stuff I'm finding
Nov 29 20:44:58 <Rick_work> nook color hackers have serial console.  That's cool.
Nov 29 20:45:33 <SineOt> hopefully the Nook color does more with the whole hacking thing. The original Nook never really went anywhere... Then again, the way the screen was set up kind of made sure of that :/
Nov 29 20:47:17 <SineOt> (The display is presented as one large uh... 980*600 unit I think, with the top 800x600 being the eink, then the the touchscreen being a 180x480 box with a 180x120 empty space to the left of it. Confusing to say the least!)
Nov 29 21:01:24 <Rick_work> uh, Nookdev's have totally opened that device up and there are quite a few apps, but the display keeps you from running standard android.  Still, nookdevs.com wiki is pretty active.
Nov 29 21:01:52 <deliciousmorsel> i like how the main advertisement on nookdev… it came up for Kobo for me
Nov 29 21:02:15 <Rick_work> Nook color on the other hand, is pretty much a rock-standard android tablet.  And it running webos would be SO UTTERLY COOL.
Nov 29 21:04:18 <Loudergood> yeah I'm sitting in #nookdevs right now
Nov 29 21:04:32 <Loudergood> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ebq05-0WKrLV7kW6i2pXEg-H1U08JjBo6XUtz4ka3uA?feat=email
Nov 29 21:05:24 <deliciousmorsel> how good is the touch potion of hte screen on the nookcolor?
Nov 29 21:05:30 <deliciousmorsel> capacitive?
Nov 29 21:05:33 <SineOt> Rick_work: oh, no I know there's a lot of apps, but most of them just... Aren't very useful. The built in browser is better than the NookDevs one, posting to twitter is cool but better done with a smart phone, etc
Nov 29 21:05:47 <SineOt> there isn't much of a "killer app"
Nov 29 21:05:54 <Loudergood> I don't have one but I've heard it's a great screen, and on the color, the whole thing is touch
Nov 29 21:06:08 <Rick_work> no, not with that form factor.  But the nook color is an utterly different beast.
Nov 29 21:06:22 <Rick_work> and running webos on it would be REALLY NICE.
Nov 29 21:06:47 <Tibfib> is anyone working on porting webOS to it?
Nov 29 21:06:50 <SineOt> heh... Looking at it, there's no softroot for Nook 1.5. :(
Nov 29 21:07:29 <Rick_work> Tibfib  destinal is planning to, but they have to have a working root first.
Nov 29 21:07:36 <Loudergood> there is, it's just not on the wiki
Nov 29 21:07:42 <Tibfib> Rick_work: nice!
Nov 29 21:09:36 <SineOt> yay, got the framework for a new app finished :9
Nov 29 21:10:17 <Rick_work> angry birds is running on the NC...  that means they got sideloading
Nov 29 21:10:28 <alexfner> well I might be leaving the webOS camp
Nov 29 21:10:33 <alexfner> got an offer to intern at apple
Nov 29 21:10:35 <Rick_work> oh?
Nov 29 21:11:15 <SineOt> alexfner: oh, cool
Nov 29 21:11:39 <alexfner> torn between my first love, and my new love! :D
Nov 29 21:12:01 <Tibfib> alexfner: congrats!
Nov 29 21:12:15 <SineOt> alexfner: simple, love both on the side!
Nov 29 21:12:27 <mugen-> congrats man!
Nov 29 21:12:44 <mugen-> i'm with sine... love both. no harm in that
Nov 29 21:13:10 <alexfner> haha
Nov 29 21:13:13 <alexfner> thanks you
Nov 29 21:13:47 <alexfner> I need a legal expert, how do NDA's work?
Nov 29 21:14:25 <halfhalo> you dont get to say crap about it
Nov 29 21:14:33 <mugen-> you say nothing about nothing
Nov 29 21:14:36 <alexfner> I get that
Nov 29 21:14:44 <mugen-> what do you need to know?
Nov 29 21:14:55 <alexfner> I mean, if I am in an NDA with one company and go to work for it's competitor
Nov 29 21:14:58 <alexfner> how does THAT work?
Nov 29 21:15:10 <mugen-> same as it would anywhere else
Nov 29 21:15:17 <MetaView> no problem, as long as you don't break the NDA
Nov 29 21:15:26 <b0bben> alexfner: i agree with the others, love both :)
Nov 29 21:15:36 <mugen-> unless those two companies have nda's... you're not allowed to divulge the info
Nov 29 21:15:38 <jkovacs> evenin
Nov 29 21:15:47 <b0bben> evening jkovacs
Nov 29 21:15:48 <alexfner> so it's not a problem, werd
Nov 29 21:16:00 <mugen-> not unless you run your mouth about something ;)
Nov 29 21:16:07 <alexfner> hah
Nov 29 21:16:08 <alexfner> :D
Nov 29 21:16:12 <alexfner> I'll be a goot boy
Nov 29 21:23:09 <b0bben> alexfner: how the hell did you get internship at apple?
Nov 29 21:26:10 <alexfner> b0bben: interviewed
Nov 29 21:26:16 <rsanchez1> alexfner: a lot of people have a webos phone and an apple laptop anyway
Nov 29 21:26:22 <torchie> :D
Nov 29 21:26:22 <rsanchez1> unless you wanna drop webos for ios...
Nov 29 21:26:40 <b0bben> + alot of devs on webos team are former apple ppl
Nov 29 21:26:56 <b0bben> alexfner: you've got it all kid, you're going places :)
Nov 29 21:26:59 <b0bben> living the dream
Nov 29 21:27:17 <mugen-> i hate you
Nov 29 21:27:22 <halfhalo> lol
Nov 29 21:27:23 <mugen-> jk
Nov 29 21:27:25 <alexfner> hah
Nov 29 21:27:27 <mugen-> :)
Nov 29 21:29:17 <b0bben> alexfner: all of us here actually died a little inside when you wrote that...
Nov 29 21:29:32 <alexfner> b0bben: how is that? :)
Nov 29 21:29:55 <b0bben> living the dream ;)
Nov 29 21:32:24 <mugen-> you know damned well all of us in here bleed webOS but deep inside we'd just LOVE to work for apple
Nov 29 21:32:37 <mugen-> and anyone who denies it, is lying to themselves
Nov 29 21:33:47 <deliciousmorsel> i'm pretty sure all of us hoped that Apple would of purchased Palm instead of HP
Nov 29 21:34:05 <deliciousmorsel> integrated all the goodness of webos into ios
Nov 29 21:34:10 <mugen-> yeah... it would have never happened tho
Nov 29 21:34:17 <deliciousmorsel> apple bid on palm
Nov 29 21:34:25 <deliciousmorsel> they were on of the companies that had bid on palm
Nov 29 21:34:29 <mugen-> i know
Nov 29 21:34:37 <deliciousmorsel> so it could of happened
Nov 29 21:34:43 <deliciousmorsel> plus steve jobs does like palm
Nov 29 21:34:47 <Rick_work> it would have been a nightmare.
Nov 29 21:34:47 <deliciousmorsel> he just likes parts of Palm
Nov 29 21:34:49 <deliciousmorsel> not all of it
Nov 29 21:34:50 <deliciousmorsel> not really
Nov 29 21:34:56 <deliciousmorsel> iOS would have good notifications
Nov 29 21:34:59 <mugen-> yeah... but it could have been just to get palm out of the market
Nov 29 21:35:08 <deliciousmorsel> palm was already out of hte market
Nov 29 21:35:10 <Rick_work> HP is committed to open source and community development.  Apple is committed to feudalism.
Nov 29 21:35:17 <deliciousmorsel> tell me … when was palm last in the market?
Nov 29 21:35:20 <deliciousmorsel> like 2006
Nov 29 21:35:24 <mugen-> uhm
Nov 29 21:35:30 <mugen-> palm is still in the market
Nov 29 21:35:33 <deliciousmorsel> haha
Nov 29 21:35:39 <mugen-> you serious?
Nov 29 21:35:46 <deliciousmorsel> just like the gizmondo was part of the portable gaming market too
Nov 29 21:35:48 <Rick_work> hp was the best thing that could possibly have happend.  What I was worried about was Lenovo.
Nov 29 21:35:49 <mugen-> if they still sell devices, they still exist
Nov 29 21:36:07 <mugen-> 1% market share... is still market share
Nov 29 21:36:13 * Tibfib agrees with Rick_work
Nov 29 21:36:14 <halfhalo> as much as I love my thinkpad, lenovo would have sucked
Nov 29 21:36:15 <torchie> as long as palm doesn't end up in the hands of anyone who would license webOS
Nov 29 21:36:17 <deliciousmorsel> yeah but thats barely part of the market
Nov 29 21:36:29 <deliciousmorsel> i know of one person who has purchased a palm phone
Nov 29 21:36:33 <torchie> I don't think lenovo is capable of handling webos lol
Nov 29 21:36:34 <rsanchez1> mugen-: I would hate to work for steve jobs
Nov 29 21:36:38 <deliciousmorsel> the other 2 people are becaue i gave them palm pre's i had
Nov 29 21:36:58 <torchie> only bit of culture they have is taken from IBM
Nov 29 21:37:06 * Tibfib sees palm pre's in the wild quite a bit
Nov 29 21:37:14 <deliciousmorsel> i honestly never do
Nov 29 21:37:17 <Tibfib> not as much as iPhones... but a fair amount
Nov 29 21:37:22 <torchie> I've been seeing more pres/pixis in the wild since I came to college
Nov 29 21:37:43 <torchie> android dominates pretty hard over here it seems though
Nov 29 21:37:50 <deliciousmorsel> i'd love to say that palm is doing well
Nov 29 21:37:57 <deliciousmorsel> i'd probably make a ton more money on my apps
Nov 29 21:38:07 <deliciousmorsel> but the amount of users is getting smaller
Nov 29 21:38:09 <deliciousmorsel> not bigger
Nov 29 21:38:19 <deliciousmorsel> the smartphone market is exploding
Nov 29 21:38:27 <deliciousmorsel> and yet palm hasn't been able to capture any growht
Nov 29 21:38:29 <MetaView> let#s hope for next year
Nov 29 21:38:32 <torchie> yeah too bad about that
Nov 29 21:38:32 <mugen-> no... it's diluting
Nov 29 21:38:41 <torchie> because right now the dominant platforms are pretty wank
Nov 29 21:38:44 <mugen-> well... android is at least
Nov 29 21:38:53 <mugen-> so many effin rubbish apps
Nov 29 21:39:02 <deliciousmorsel> yeah but motorola has actually had a good quarter cause of the growth
Nov 29 21:39:07 <rsanchez1> meh, I know a lot of people have moaned every time HP/Rubinstein/anyone drops hints about what is to come, but personally I'm excited
Nov 29 21:39:11 <deliciousmorsel> i want Palm to do well
Nov 29 21:39:13 <deliciousmorsel> cause i'd do well
Nov 29 21:39:18 <rsanchez1> we're gonna be getting a lot of devices with a lot of form factors
Nov 29 21:39:19 <deliciousmorsel> but HP isn't doing anything about that
Nov 29 21:39:24 <rsanchez1> they should all come next year
Nov 29 21:39:25 <deliciousmorsel> at least that we know of yet
Nov 29 21:39:31 <rsanchez1> we know they're doing something
Nov 29 21:39:31 <torchie> if only meego was out and not under the major influence of both AMD and intel
Nov 29 21:39:35 <torchie> x86 phones D:
Nov 29 21:39:45 <mugen-> delicious, you're a negative nancy, you know that? :P
Nov 29 21:39:47 <MetaView> oh, I love my dayjob, no need to make big with webos :)
Nov 29 21:39:54 <rsanchez1> Rubinstein at that web summit a couple of weeks ago says they have devices in the pipeline that they hope will be hits
Nov 29 21:39:55 <deliciousmorsel> x86 phones?
Nov 29 21:40:02 <deliciousmorsel> lol x86 is a terrible architecture
Nov 29 21:40:02 <torchie> next palm device better have a front facing camera
Nov 29 21:40:03 <torchie> a
Nov 29 21:40:05 <torchie> nd a
Nov 29 21:40:07 <torchie> and a damn
Nov 29 21:40:08 <torchie> gyroscope
Nov 29 21:40:14 <deliciousmorsel> and a good battery life
Nov 29 21:40:15 <MetaView> compass
Nov 29 21:40:15 <rsanchez1> lol gyroscope
Nov 29 21:40:23 <torchie> gyroscope, compass, front facing camera
Nov 29 21:40:25 * rsanchez1 does not need a damn gyroscope
Nov 29 21:40:26 <Tibfib> coffee maker
Nov 29 21:40:26 <torchie> stainless steel construction
Nov 29 21:40:29 <MetaView> 6 buttons
Nov 29 21:40:33 <deliciousmorsel> +1 for coffee maker
Nov 29 21:40:34 <MetaView> + 2 shoulders
Nov 29 21:40:34 <mugen-> lol
Nov 29 21:40:35 <Tibfib> razor
Nov 29 21:40:40 <rsanchez1> oh and it needs a 55" screen
Nov 29 21:40:40 <torchie> they better make the dang phone out of like
Nov 29 21:40:43 <torchie> tank metal and unicorn tears
Nov 29 21:40:44 <MetaView> and stereo
Nov 29 21:40:45 <Loudergood> sidetalking
Nov 29 21:40:48 <torchie> ok I'm not one of those guys
Nov 29 21:40:49 <torchie> I'm not one of THOSE guys
Nov 29 21:40:54 <rsanchez1> scratch that a 100" screen
Nov 29 21:41:06 <torchie> one of those mr. MAKE IT AN ANDROID BEAST BUT WITH WEBOS LOL DERP
Nov 29 21:41:08 <Loudergood> built in micro led projector..got it
Nov 29 21:41:09 <deliciousmorsel> honestly it just needs to be fast
Nov 29 21:41:14 <deliciousmorsel> and have great battery life
Nov 29 21:41:15 <deliciousmorsel> and apps
Nov 29 21:41:19 <deliciousmorsel> thats all people care about
Nov 29 21:41:24 <deliciousmorsel> oh yeah and not At&T
Nov 29 21:41:34 <torchie> fast, good battery life, durable construction
Nov 29 21:41:41 <deliciousmorsel> +1 for durable
Nov 29 21:41:44 <torchie> also put it on sprint for christ sakes it's wimax android central over here
Nov 29 21:41:50 <mugen-> +1 for not AT&T
Nov 29 21:41:52 <torchie> +4000 for durable
Nov 29 21:41:57 <torchie> make it out of fucking DIAMONDS HPALM
Nov 29 21:42:03 <torchie> I'm on my THIRD pre
Nov 29 21:42:13 <deliciousmorsel> i went through 3 in the first month
Nov 29 21:42:20 <deliciousmorsel> but then the 4th lasted forever
Nov 29 21:42:23 <torchie> and this third pre has a broken earpiece
Nov 29 21:42:26 <torchie> broken volume rocker
Nov 29 21:42:28 <torchie> cracked edges
Nov 29 21:42:33 <deliciousmorsel> the initial ones sucked
Nov 29 21:42:41 <MetaView> my pre is the first and still ok
Nov 29 21:42:47 <deliciousmorsel> when did you buy it?
Nov 29 21:42:48 <torchie> the playstation portable has an optical drive and a modicum of moving parts and is more durable
Nov 29 21:42:51 <MetaView> my wife has another, also ok
Nov 29 21:42:53 <Loudergood> my pre plus is good so far, feels a little creaky after holding a pre 2 though
Nov 29 21:43:13 <torchie> is the newer revision of the sprint model the one with the battery instructions printed on it?
Nov 29 21:43:14 <MetaView> I guess the very first devices are really bad
Nov 29 21:43:17 <deliciousmorsel> if palm really cared
Nov 29 21:43:22 <MetaView> they get better with the time
Nov 29 21:43:27 <torchie> I've never owned a device that broke as easily as the pre
Nov 29 21:43:29 <techrush> my pixi is falling apart
Nov 29 21:43:34 <torchie> and every device palm had before the pre was a damn tank
Nov 29 21:43:36 <techrush> after 3 months
Nov 29 21:43:42 <torchie> pixi falls apart too?
Nov 29 21:43:49 <torchie> dang I was hoping it wouldn't since it's candybar at least
Nov 29 21:43:55 <deliciousmorsel> they'd make the C PDK with obj-c/gnustep
Nov 29 21:43:57 <techrush> the battery cover is a piece of crap
Nov 29 21:44:00 <MetaView> torchie: ever had a TX with broken power button and a Centro where the color dissapears?
Nov 29 21:44:23 <MetaView> obj-c?
Nov 29 21:44:29 <torchie> no, but I had a zire that lasted me half a decade and a centro that got thrown across a room multiple times
Nov 29 21:44:31 <deliciousmorsel> yeah like Sony has
Nov 29 21:44:35 <deliciousmorsel> and of course Apple
Nov 29 21:44:36 <MetaView> no way, that's just stupid
Nov 29 21:44:42 <deliciousmorsel> why is it stupid?
Nov 29 21:44:54 <MetaView> obj-c is just a small market
Nov 29 21:44:58 <deliciousmorsel> being able to get the hundreds of thousands of developers for mobile devices a language they alreayd know?
Nov 29 21:44:59 <MetaView> only Apple use it
Nov 29 21:45:10 <deliciousmorsel> apple is a small market?
Nov 29 21:45:10 <deliciousmorsel> lol
Nov 29 21:45:14 <torchie> I've had a treo pro that got dumped in a 6 foot deep pool with me and still worked afterward
Nov 29 21:45:14 <rsanchez1> I wouldn't say small market
Nov 29 21:45:22 <deliciousmorsel> the number one mobile device in the world is a small market
Nov 29 21:45:26 <deliciousmorsel> the one with the most developers?
Nov 29 21:45:28 <rsanchez1> just very niche in the sense of where you can take obj-c
Nov 29 21:45:37 <deliciousmorsel> you can use obj-c everywhere
Nov 29 21:45:40 <deliciousmorsel> i use it on my linux box
Nov 29 21:45:42 <MetaView> I guess a lot of them are still C++ programmers, writing the frontend in oobj-c
Nov 29 21:45:42 <deliciousmorsel> with gnustep
Nov 29 21:45:49 <deliciousmorsel> thats true
Nov 29 21:45:58 <deliciousmorsel> lots do the 3d stuff in c++
Nov 29 21:46:07 <deliciousmorsel> and just use hooks to obj-c
Nov 29 21:46:10 <MetaView> why no port more apps?
Nov 29 21:46:20 <deliciousmorsel> but getting more developers on board
Nov 29 21:46:24 <deliciousmorsel> would be better
Nov 29 21:46:26 <deliciousmorsel> more competition
Nov 29 21:46:27 <deliciousmorsel> better apps
Nov 29 21:46:28 <MetaView> where is Doom, Quake, Hexen, Heretic, etc in the AppCat?
Nov 29 21:46:44 <torchie> I just like the C++/SDL dealie right now
Nov 29 21:46:45 <MetaView> the Pre needs buttons
Nov 29 21:46:52 <deliciousmorsel> like a keyboard?
Nov 29 21:46:53 <deliciousmorsel> lol
Nov 29 21:46:55 <torchie> the pre needs less buttons
Nov 29 21:47:04 <MetaView> I would port them all, if the result would be playable
Nov 29 21:47:07 <deliciousmorsel> Pre needs what it has
Nov 29 21:47:10 <deliciousmorsel> what we need is a new device
Nov 29 21:47:12 <deliciousmorsel> thats not the pre
Nov 29 21:47:14 <torchie> yeah
Nov 29 21:47:15 <MetaView> the Pre needs buttons to play 3D games
Nov 29 21:47:20 <deliciousmorsel> the Post.
Nov 29 21:47:21 <torchie> buttons are dead
Nov 29 21:47:31 <deliciousmorsel> the Pre2 needs a kinect built-in
Nov 29 21:47:35 <deliciousmorsel> Pre3*
Nov 29 21:47:43 <MetaView> no 3D games without buttons, every 3D games sucks without 6 buttons + fire
Nov 29 21:47:45 <deliciousmorsel> when i smile it takes a photo of my face
Nov 29 21:47:53 <torchie> THE PRE2 NEEDS AN 4.445 INCH AMOLED SCREEN AND HDMI OUT RURRUG
Nov 29 21:47:56 <deliciousmorsel> when i blink my right eye it shows me my schedule
Nov 29 21:48:06 <torchie> we need new, fresh, webos-exclusive developers
Nov 29 21:48:08 <deliciousmorsel> left eye it opens my contact list
Nov 29 21:48:09 <MetaView> and if I hit you hard?
Nov 29 21:48:16 <torchie> no more of these iphone 3GS ports
Nov 29 21:48:43 <deliciousmorsel> think i should make an open-source pull to refresh widget?
Nov 29 21:49:26 <torchie> cuz it's like "oh yeah my phone plays game x too!"
Nov 29 21:49:30 <mugen-> i don't understand hdmi on a phone
Nov 29 21:49:35 <deliciousmorsel> neither do i
Nov 29 21:49:39 <deliciousmorsel> unless it has netflix app
Nov 29 21:49:48 <deliciousmorsel> but other than that
Nov 29 21:49:50 <deliciousmorsel> who cares.
Nov 29 21:49:57 <maik> scene.prototype.activate() is called when the app is loaded and the scene is first pushed, right?
Nov 29 21:50:02 <mugen-> yup
Nov 29 21:50:02 <torchie> "well it doesn't work as well as an iphone 4 BUT"
Nov 29 21:50:03 <Loudergood> yeah I was kind of confused by that
Nov 29 21:50:15 <torchie> what if you have movies stored locally
Nov 29 21:50:17 <maik> it doesn't seem to be happening in this app i've written
Nov 29 21:50:27 <torchie> hdmi seems like something cool to have but
Nov 29 21:50:32 <MetaView> maik: is it activate/deactivate
Nov 29 21:50:45 <mugen-> torchie, are you going to carry around the hdmi mini cable?
Nov 29 21:50:46 <deliciousmorsel> setup/cleanup
Nov 29 21:50:49 <torchie> if we just hastily threw a bunch of cumbersome crap in based on how "cool to have" it was
Nov 29 21:50:56 <MetaView> activate is called each time the app gets focus?
Nov 29 21:51:00 <deliciousmorsel> no
Nov 29 21:51:02 <maik> i don't think so
Nov 29 21:51:04 <torchie> we'd have android
Nov 29 21:51:05 <deliciousmorsel> activate is when that scene becomes active
Nov 29 21:51:09 <deliciousmorsel> so if you push a scene on top of it
Nov 29 21:51:15 <deliciousmorsel> it will get deactivate
Nov 29 21:51:23 <maik> and when the scene is pushed for the first time, right?
Nov 29 21:51:25 <deliciousmorsel> then if that top scene gets popped the bottom scene will get activate again
Nov 29 21:51:46 <deliciousmorsel> maik: setup is only called once
Nov 29 21:51:53 <maik> i'm talking about activate
Nov 29 21:52:01 <deliciousmorsel> yeah but activate can be called multiple times
Nov 29 21:52:02 <maik> is activate called when a scene is pushed for the first time?
Nov 29 21:52:09 <maik> i know
Nov 29 21:52:17 <deliciousmorsel> yes
Nov 29 21:52:19 <deliciousmorsel> it is called
Nov 29 21:52:24 <deliciousmorsel> right after setup
Nov 29 21:52:31 <deliciousmorsel> even on the first time it is shown
Nov 29 21:52:42 <maik> i wrote this app given that assumption and assumed it was working like that.  but now when i try it, activate is not being called
Nov 29 21:52:58 <deliciousmorsel> is it on a specific scene?
Nov 29 21:53:13 <deliciousmorsel> or on the stage controller
Nov 29 21:53:16 <maik> it will when i push another scene and pop back to it, but not... oh wait a minute, i think a dialog is interrupting
Nov 29 21:53:48 <maik> nope, i lied
Nov 29 21:53:52 <sugardav1> I'm pretty sure activate/deactivate get called when a scene is minimized to card view and restored, as well
Nov 29 21:54:14 <deliciousmorsel> sugardav1:  you sure about that?
Nov 29 21:54:20 <sugardav1> I think so
Nov 29 21:54:33 <deliciousmorsel> i think an event gets fired isntead
Nov 29 21:54:35 <deliciousmorsel> i could be wrong
Nov 29 21:54:39 <deliciousmorsel> maybe your right
Nov 29 21:54:43 <maik> that isn't happening either
Nov 29 21:54:49 <deliciousmorsel> check for typo's
Nov 29 21:54:51 <deliciousmorsel> lol
Nov 29 21:54:51 <sugardav1> that's how the command menus and whatnot go away when you go to card view
Nov 29 21:54:57 <sugardav1> it may be an event, though, yeah
Nov 29 21:57:14 <maik> hah, found the problem
Nov 29 21:57:26 <maik> this.controller.setupWidget();
Nov 29 21:57:30 <maik> just sitting randomly in setup()
Nov 29 21:57:35 <maik> derp
Nov 29 21:57:37 <sugardave> deliciousmorsel: you are correct, activate isn't called in that situation
Nov 29 21:57:55 <maik> i conquer^H^H^H^Hcur
Nov 29 21:58:00 <sugardave> heh
Nov 29 21:59:03 <maik> you can go about your regularly scheduled programs
Nov 29 22:01:35 <Tibfib> sugardave: you have to listen to stage activate/deactivate, which is seperate from the scene activate/deactivate functions
Nov 29 22:01:57 <mugen-> omg.
Nov 29 22:02:04 <mugen-> trees in google earth 6!
Nov 29 22:02:08 <MetaView> will these events survive the transition to envy?
Nov 29 22:02:14 <mugen-> i'm blown away
Nov 29 22:02:45 <Tibfib> MetaView: I assume a replacement event will be available
Nov 29 22:02:47 <mugen-> who the *$%^ at google thought that'd be an effective way to improve google earth... i mean seriously, TREES!?
Nov 29 22:03:10 <mugen-> one step closer to perfection!
Nov 29 22:03:14 <mugen-> we've got trees!
Nov 29 22:03:22 <mugen-> </rant>
Nov 29 22:06:07 <b0bben> mugen-: earth 8.0 = ROCKS! A LOT OF THEM!
Nov 29 22:06:26 <b0bben> some good reading before hitting the sack: http://www.incaseofstairs.com/2010/04/garbage-collection-gotchas-in-webos/
Nov 29 22:06:37 <mugen-> D:
Nov 29 22:13:34 <b0bben> gn folks
Nov 29 22:18:03 <Tibfib> haeffb_ or sugardave, is there a way to get the index of the item in a formatter?
Nov 29 22:18:21 <Tibfib> or anyone else :)
Nov 29 22:18:41 <sugardave> arg, no
Nov 29 22:18:55 <sugardave> you have to search the array for the matching element
Nov 29 22:18:57 <sugardave> totally sucks
Nov 29 22:19:01 <Tibfib> crapola
Nov 29 22:19:08 <Tibfib> that really screws me over
Nov 29 22:19:22 <sugardave> you can still do it, but if the list is large, expect performance issues
Nov 29 22:19:33 <Tibfib> I need to identify an item based on the index, and sometime the item is a duplicate
Nov 29 22:19:41 <sugardave> lame
Nov 29 22:19:56 <Tibfib> shoot!
Nov 29 22:19:57 <sugardave> you could pre-process the list and add one more property to it that is the index
Nov 29 22:20:18 <Tibfib> that's probably what I'll have to do, but that adds a lot more work
Nov 29 22:20:39 <sugardave> or do it when beuilding the list, either way
Nov 29 22:20:52 <Tibfib> crap!
Nov 29 22:21:02 * Tibfib must think this over
Nov 29 22:25:56 <jkovacs> hm serious problem here
Nov 29 22:26:12 <jkovacs> don't know where to put my touchstone on my table :(
Nov 29 22:26:30 * sugardave suggests the top surface.
Nov 29 22:26:42 <pandora--> in the middle
Nov 29 22:26:45 <pandora--> dead center
Nov 29 22:26:59 <jkovacs> the top surface is full of papers so that's out
Nov 29 22:27:11 <sugardave> hmm
Nov 29 22:27:13 <sugardave> that is tricky
Nov 29 22:27:21 <pandora--> can the papers move?
Nov 29 22:27:28 <pandora--> or have you glued them all to your desk?
Nov 29 22:27:43 <Tibfib> jkovacs: on a leg, perpendicular to the floor!
Nov 29 22:28:03 <jkovacs> it sure _feels_ like they're glued on there I haven't seen them move in the last year
Nov 29 22:28:11 <sugardave> maybe I start building TouchStone posts
Nov 29 22:28:34 <jkovacs> why doesn't the touchstone have a magnetic surface on the _bottom_ that'd be cool
Nov 29 22:28:46 <jkovacs> you could just hang it into a metal leg then
Nov 29 22:29:43 <SineOt> the hard part is finding an adhesive that holds it
Nov 29 22:29:47 <sugardave> cyanide and happiness comic wants a webOS dev
Nov 29 22:29:51 <SineOt> I'd love to vertically mount my touchstone :<
Nov 29 22:30:12 <sugardave> is the phone not heavy enough to fall off?
Nov 29 22:30:45 <jkovacs> I can turn the touchstone upside down and the phone sticks to it
Nov 29 22:31:07 <sugardave> cool
Nov 29 22:31:11 <sugardave> never tried it
Nov 29 22:31:13 <maik> is there a good way to capture the body of probably a large web site that is the result of an ajax request and display it so it doesn't get cut off in the log?
Nov 29 22:31:22 <pandora--> sugardave: that's odd
Nov 29 22:31:26 <pandora--> sugardave: i like that comic
Nov 29 22:31:35 <jkovacs> probably not possible
Nov 29 22:31:51 <sugardave> pandora--: they're looking for multiple devs for the "not-iPhone" platorms
Nov 29 22:31:52 <pandora--> maik: isn't that annoying????
Nov 29 22:31:57 <pandora--> hah
Nov 29 22:31:58 <maik> pandora--: immensely
Nov 29 22:32:23 <sugardave> maik: best way I've found is dump the contents to a div
Nov 29 22:32:33 <jkovacs> Have you tried using the debugger? I'm not sure but you'll probably be able to view the whole content of your variable
Nov 29 22:33:04 <pandora--> sugardave: ugh, petpeeve. Droid is not a mobile platform
Nov 29 22:33:08 <maik> on 2.0?
Nov 29 22:33:27 <sugardave> pandora--: yeah, I know
Nov 29 22:33:27 <pandora--> sugardave: that's some damn good marketing though, people think of Droid as the OS/platform
Nov 29 22:33:35 <sugardave> no doubt
Nov 29 22:34:26 <sugardave> maik: dumping to div should work on 2.0 :P
Nov 29 22:34:34 <maik> heh
Nov 29 22:34:50 <SineOt> sugardave: it's more finding something strong enough to keep phone + touchstone vertical
Nov 29 22:35:15 <sugardave> gorilla glue
Nov 29 22:35:30 <SineOt> ... that won't also destroy the desk in the process
Nov 29 22:35:35 <sugardave> oh right
Nov 29 22:39:06 <SineOt> I should try some of those 3M command tabs
Nov 29 22:39:25 <mugen-> don't bother
Nov 29 22:40:13 <mugen-> lol... sorry wrong window
Nov 29 22:40:19 <mugen-> neat how that worked out tho :P
Nov 29 22:40:32 <pandora--> phb: what's your name mean/standfor?
Nov 29 22:40:53 <phb> short version of phearbear... looong time ago =)
Nov 29 22:41:04 <pandora--> phb: i constantly see it and think phib
Nov 29 22:41:07 <pandora--> as in: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pihb
Nov 29 22:41:30 <phb> charming
Nov 29 22:41:53 <pandora--> :(
Nov 29 22:42:02 <pandora--> it's just what I see when I see your name
Nov 29 22:59:59 <jkovacs> sg
Nov 29 23:00:53 <jkovacs> Did the windows calculator always have these handy keyboard shortcuts?
Nov 29 23:01:34 <sugardave> pointy-haired boss
Nov 29 23:01:56 <jkovacs> wha-
Nov 29 23:02:35 * sugardave is some minutes behind.
Nov 29 23:02:41 <halfhalo> lol
Nov 29 23:02:57 <jkovacs> oh phb :)
Nov 29 23:07:10 <rsanchez1> gah I am getting very frustrated over an error in my app
Nov 29 23:07:21 <sugardave> that happens to me a lot
Nov 29 23:07:27 <rsanchez1> anyone know what would cause an Ajax.Request to fail?
Nov 29 23:07:35 <sugardave> a myriad of things :D
Nov 29 23:07:52 <rsanchez1> I'm calling it one way in one object, and it works fine
Nov 29 23:08:00 <rsanchez1> I'm calling it the exact same way in another object, and it fails
Nov 29 23:08:08 <rsanchez1> arrrrrgh
Nov 29 23:08:13 <sugardave> server hates you
Nov 29 23:08:19 <dawm_> i <3 other devs
Nov 29 23:08:23 <halfhalo> hah
Nov 29 23:08:33 <dawm_> unwiredben fixed one of my apps, so i didnt have to do the work :P
Nov 29 23:08:37 <dawm_> submitting the fixed version now
Nov 29 23:08:39 <sugardave> hahaha
Nov 29 23:08:39 <rsanchez1> I have no idea why it's failing
Nov 29 23:08:41 <sugardave> nice
Nov 29 23:09:03 <dawm_> yeah
Nov 29 23:09:07 <dawm_> dont have comments in .json
Nov 29 23:09:14 * sugardave sends email to the Cyanide and Happiness people without a bid.  "Let's see what happens."
Nov 29 23:09:16 <rsanchez1> actually I have a separate object that handles all ajax calls, and both of the other javascript objects are using the ajax object
Nov 29 23:09:17 <dawm_> my issue was i had a commented line in sources.json
Nov 29 23:09:22 <sugardave> comments in JSON === BAAAAD
Nov 29 23:09:27 <dawm_> webOS 2.0 is more strict ;p
Nov 29 23:10:06 <dawm_> still havent heard back from anyone about my october revenue payment tho =/
Nov 29 23:10:11 <sugardave> rsanchez1: so, first time it is a new one, but the second time it's trying to re-use?
Nov 29 23:10:13 <rsanchez1> this is one of those things that should work, but when you find why it doesn't work you're gonna kick yourself
Nov 29 23:10:45 <sugardave> or do you make a new request each time in your controlling object?
Nov 29 23:10:49 <rsanchez1> oh no, each time I do an ajax call, I do something like: myAjaxObject = new AjaxObject(); myAjaxObject.request(ajaxParams)
Nov 29 23:10:53 <sugardave> k
Nov 29 23:11:33 <sugardave> rsanchez1: and how do you know it is failing?  error message or just no response?
Nov 29 23:11:43 <rsanchez1> no response
Nov 29 23:11:49 <rsanchez1> sometimes I'm lucky and I get an error message
Nov 29 23:11:54 <sugardave> possible binding issue?
Nov 29 23:11:55 <sugardave> oh
Nov 29 23:11:57 <sugardave> hmm
Nov 29 23:12:25 <rsanchez1> I make sure to send it a reference to the current object
Nov 29 23:12:32 <rsanchez1> so I think I can rule out a binding issue
Nov 29 23:12:35 <sugardave> yeah
Nov 29 23:15:13 <rsanchez1> most of the time I get no response
Nov 29 23:15:19 <rsanchez1> I would say about 97%
Nov 29 23:15:54 * sugardave falls back to server hate.
Nov 29 23:16:19 <halfhalo> hah
Nov 29 23:16:34 * halfhalo has a comment somewhere in his code and he doesn't know where
Nov 29 23:16:40 <Wolvenhaven> lol
Nov 29 23:16:51 <rsanchez1> stupid server hate, it shouldn't even know from which object I'm calling it
Nov 29 23:16:51 <Wolvenhaven> ctrl*f //
Nov 29 23:17:07 <Wolvenhaven> ctrl+f*
Nov 29 23:17:17 <rsanchez1> literally, I make the same call from another object in another scene immediately after, and I get a response in 1-2 seconds
Nov 29 23:17:32 <Wolvenhaven> lol
Nov 29 23:17:35 <rsanchez1> but both are making the call the exact same way
Nov 29 23:17:42 <Wolvenhaven> i've been doing spring mvc stuff all month for work
Nov 29 23:17:49 <Wolvenhaven> and i get weird shit like that too all the time
Nov 29 23:18:09 <Wolvenhaven> my latest one is it likes to null all the variables of my object whenever a getter is called
Nov 29 23:18:26 <Wolvenhaven> web frameworks like screwing with you for fun i think
Nov 29 23:19:30 <rsanchez1> stop screwing with me web frameworks!
Nov 29 23:20:00 <rsanchez1> maybe if I put it away and try again tomorrow it'll work
Nov 29 23:20:08 <Wolvenhaven> i spent 2 hours today tracking down "null pointer exception" errors
Nov 29 23:20:13 <jkovacs> that usually works for me
Nov 29 23:20:20 <Wolvenhaven> till i realized that whenever it called a getter, it nulled the variable
Nov 29 23:20:23 <Wolvenhaven> that was obnoxious
Nov 29 23:29:31 <mugen-> ...i really want to try growing some pot
Nov 29 23:30:08 <pandora--> mugen-: are you in california?
Nov 29 23:30:12 <mugen-> no :\
Nov 29 23:30:17 <pandora--> ah
Nov 29 23:30:17 <mugen-> AZ
Nov 29 23:30:23 <pandora--> we almost passed that law last month
Nov 29 23:30:26 <pandora--> hah
Nov 29 23:30:46 <mugen-> i don't want to go back to my pot smokign days... or sell it or anything.
Nov 29 23:30:53 <mugen-> but i looks like a fun challenge
Nov 29 23:31:25 <pandora--> how about a fun challenge of growing basil or something?
Nov 29 23:31:41 <pandora--> then you can make pesto sauce and impress the ladies
Nov 29 23:32:07 <mugen-> that's boring :(
Nov 29 23:32:14 <mugen-> and i already make a decent pesto sauce
Nov 29 23:32:39 <pandora--> erm
Nov 29 23:32:44 <mugen-> maybe i'll just make a complicated webOS game
Nov 29 23:32:48 <mugen-> grow dope
Nov 29 23:32:54 <pandora--> you could grow........ i dunnow, other herbs
Nov 29 23:32:59 <rsanchez1> haha a game about growing dope
Nov 29 23:33:00 <mugen-> if you win, you go to jail
Nov 29 23:33:05 <pandora--> lol
Nov 29 23:33:09 <pandora--> awesome
Nov 29 23:33:11 <mugen-> :P
Nov 29 23:33:21 <pandora--> what if you grow it in mexico?
Nov 29 23:33:26 <pandora--> is that like a hidden level
Nov 29 23:33:30 <jkovacs> Is there a dope wars port for webOS already anyway?
Nov 29 23:33:36 <mugen-> then you get beaten in the streets for growing crappy pot
Nov 29 23:34:00 <mugen-> jkovacs, don't think so... wish there was tho
Nov 29 23:34:18 * mugen- checks...
Nov 29 23:35:07 <rsanchez1> check if angry birds update is live too
Nov 29 23:35:34 <mugen-> 1.3.6
Nov 29 23:36:18 <mugen-> there is a dope wars :D
Nov 29 23:38:55 <jkovacs> hm don't have preware installed atm :(
Nov 29 23:39:23 <mugen-> :(
Nov 29 23:41:08 <jkovacs> oh cool you can just dl the ipk
Nov 29 23:41:50 <sugardave> I'm majorly disapponted in the entirety of California.
Nov 29 23:41:56 <halfhalo> oh?
Nov 29 23:42:13 <sugardave> yes, prop 19 should have passed, dammit
Nov 29 23:45:44 <pandora--> from a liberty/legal standpoint, yes it should have
Nov 29 23:59:50 <mugen-> sooooooo... i just found out my company is closing the doors
Nov 29 23:59:53 <mugen-> lol
Nov 29 23:59:57 <mugen-> MERRY XMAS!
Nov 30 00:08:11 <pandora--> mugen-: crap!
Nov 30 00:08:20 <mugen-> uh huh :(
Nov 30 00:08:21 <pandora--> mugen-: what company?
Nov 30 00:08:31 <mugen-> small digital signage upstart
Nov 30 00:08:38 <pandora--> damn
Nov 30 00:08:42 <mugen-> ...just didn't pan out
Nov 30 00:08:50 <torchie_pre> man the comments on the palm facebook page are all so hurtful
Nov 30 00:08:57 <mugen-> ??
Nov 30 00:08:59 <pandora--> torchie_pre: link!
Nov 30 00:09:22 <torchie_pre> dunno how to link from facebook app
Nov 30 00:09:41 <pandora--> http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Palm/57654226534
Nov 30 00:09:42 <pandora--> that?
Nov 30 00:09:46 <pandora--> or something else
Nov 30 00:10:22 <pandora--> http://www.facebook.com/#!/palm?v=wall
Nov 30 00:10:26 <pandora--> dunno
Nov 30 00:13:27 <torchie_pre> ugh stupid facebook
Nov 30 00:13:41 <torchie_pre> defaults to facebook touch and takes me to front page
Nov 30 00:14:51 <pandora--> haha
Nov 30 00:15:26 <torchie_pre> comments, hopes, wishes, and criticism of palm have pretty much leaked into anything with user input though
Nov 30 00:15:35 <torchie_pre> like even app catalog reviews
Nov 30 00:18:26 <pandora--> lol
Nov 30 00:18:32 <pandora--> naturally
Nov 30 00:18:39 <pandora--> I'm the biggest palm fanboy in evar
Nov 30 00:18:45 <pandora--> and i'm tired of palm
Nov 30 00:18:51 <pandora--> moving my dev to android
Nov 30 00:19:09 <pandora--> and if something really amazing doesn't happen with palm devices, moving to android for my personal device too
Nov 30 00:19:30 <torchie_pre> it's frustrating for me
Nov 30 00:19:36 <Draecos> lol that helps my decision a little
Nov 30 00:19:42 <Draecos> been tempted to fork out for a pre 2
Nov 30 00:19:47 <torchie_pre> because I want to dev but not for android or iOS
Nov 30 00:20:01 <Draecos> thoughts like that on this channel confirm i prolly shouldnt ;P
Nov 30 00:21:32 <Draecos> unless i can be convinced otherwise
Nov 30 00:21:45 <pandora--> i love the OS
Nov 30 00:21:54 <pandora--> and i really enjoy dev for webos
Nov 30 00:22:06 <Draecos> anyone got a pre 2?
Nov 30 00:22:15 <Draecos> is it really worth it?
Nov 30 00:22:20 <pandora--> but I've gone through more palm pre and pixi phones than anyone should ever have to
Nov 30 00:22:39 <pandora--> and the hardware just doesn't meet the standards of todays market
Nov 30 00:22:58 <pandora--> even the brand new pre 2 doesn't compete with the hardware (and software) of android/iphone options
Nov 30 00:23:00 <pandora--> unfortunately
Nov 30 00:23:20 <pandora--> simple things that "smartphones" should do... the palms don't
Nov 30 00:23:31 <torchie_pre> the pre 2's an intermediate
Nov 30 00:23:32 <Draecos> like voice dialing
Nov 30 00:23:40 <pandora--> voicedial, bluetooth file transfer, etc
Nov 30 00:23:41 <pandora--> yeah
Nov 30 00:23:44 <torchie_pre> voice dialing isn't that important is it
Nov 30 00:23:52 <pandora--> I think so
Nov 30 00:23:53 <torchie_pre> file transfer'sa pain yeah
Nov 30 00:24:02 <torchie_pre> and sending music over mms
Nov 30 00:24:02 <Draecos> no but it almost falls into a default feature
Nov 30 00:24:06 <Draecos> function
Nov 30 00:24:10 <pandora--> I switched to android for a month and was amazed at how often i used voice dial/voice search
Nov 30 00:24:32 <torchie_pre> I'm really hoping meego pulls through
Nov 30 00:24:38 <pandora--> "map [some store]"
Nov 30 00:24:46 <pandora--> "directions to [some place]"
Nov 30 00:24:51 <torchie_pre> but with both amd and intel behind it... I dunno
Nov 30 00:24:54 <pandora--> "call [some person]" etc...
Nov 30 00:24:58 <pandora--> is sooooo nice.
Nov 30 00:25:38 <torchie_pre> if iOS had sideloading and didn't need jailbreaking
Nov 30 00:25:51 <torchie_pre> this'd all be easier
Nov 30 00:26:02 <pandora--> heh
Nov 30 00:26:21 <pandora--> if iOS wasn't apple this'd all be easier
Nov 30 00:26:32 <torchie_pre> lol
Nov 30 00:26:33 <pandora--> *sigh*
Nov 30 00:26:51 <pandora--> it's just so hard not to have phone envy when you see what a droid x or an evo can do
Nov 30 00:27:09 <pandora--> but but.. i can swipe my card off screen to close it!
Nov 30 00:27:17 <pandora--> i know... but that's all you get.
Nov 30 00:27:48 <pandora--> i LOVE webos mutitasking.  beats the CRAP out of everyone else
Nov 30 00:28:19 <Draecos> whats your thoughts on ces pandora-- ?
Nov 30 00:28:38 <Draecos> reckon it'll be underwelming?
Nov 30 00:28:54 <torchie_pre> if we could just have some sort of platform where the OS  isn't whored out to every device maker, AND isn't tyrannically controlled, AND has a decent interface and native code support
Nov 30 00:29:21 <torchie_pre> oh wait -- webOS -- and it's of  course not the popular solution
Nov 30 00:29:56 <pandora--> unfortunately
Nov 30 00:30:27 <torchie_pre> so much for having your cake and eating it too
Nov 30 00:30:37 <torchie_pre> not in this world, huh
Nov 30 00:48:07 <Wolvenhaven> mugen-: brew beer
Nov 30 00:48:19 <Wolvenhaven> i started brewing beer like 6 months ago, it's awesome
Nov 30 01:53:56 <dawm_> enyo looks promising, but i hate using ares
Nov 30 01:55:30 <rick_mobile> enyo will not require using ares.
Nov 30 01:55:37 <rick_mobile> Heck, ares doesn't require using ares.
Nov 30 01:55:51 <rick_mobile> but WHY do you hate it?
Nov 30 02:02:33 <k[t> greaatttt... my sync cable just started working again out-of-the-blue... and i've already ordered one for amazon. luckily it is only 96LABEL plop
Nov 30 02:03:43 <k[t> s/LABEL plop/ ¢/
Nov 30 02:07:56 <Loudergood> yeah I love amazon cable prices
Nov 30 02:08:06 <Loudergood> especially with amazon student prime
Nov 30 02:09:05 <k[t> what is this student prime you speak of?
Nov 30 02:09:29 <SineOt> free amazon prime if you have a valid .edu address
Nov 30 02:09:57 <k[t> sounds good...
Nov 30 02:13:02 <Loudergood> http://www.amazon.com/student
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 30 02:59:57 2010