**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 07 02:59:58 2011 Jan 07 03:07:36 damn you tibfib... i'm already addicted to wesnoth Jan 07 03:07:43 heh Jan 07 03:14:03 * SineOt is getting addicted to Civ 4. c_c; Jan 07 03:14:27 I played the hell out of 2. I need to rework my brain so bad. XD Jan 07 03:15:00 ohai sine :) didn't see you... how're you today? Jan 07 03:15:09 Pretty good I suppose Jan 07 03:15:14 destinal: And there was questions of PDL libraries for running webOS apps in n8/900.. ;^) Jan 07 03:26:13 I bit the bullet. I bought an app on the Mac App Store. :p Jan 07 03:29:19 what did you get? Jan 07 03:29:46 Textual. I like it, and for 4.99, I figured why not. Support further development on it. Jan 07 03:30:03 I was trying he library sharing in xbmc. When I use the android remote nothing shows up in the library and I can't use library mode Jan 07 03:30:19 Colloquy has kind of stagnated (probably in large part due to the fact the main dev worked/works for Apple on the iOS branch) Jan 07 03:30:21 Wrong channel Jan 07 03:31:00 And when you admin channels with like... 70-100 users each, the broke ass ban support in Colloquy gets -way- old. :B Jan 07 03:31:31 Deihmos, why you using the android remote? ;p Jan 07 03:31:59 I use it sometimes to put something on in other rooms for others Jan 07 03:32:13 Don't have to mov Jan 07 03:32:50 Hm, mugen-: you think I should branch off my remote into both a Boxee and an XBMC version? Jan 07 03:33:04 Its pretty good though. Made by the xbmc developers Jan 07 03:33:28 whoa whoa... sineot, textual is free Jan 07 03:33:36 i've been running it for months Jan 07 03:33:56 wtf... Jan 07 03:34:00 now it's not Jan 07 03:34:04 lol Jan 07 03:34:37 uh Jan 07 03:34:43 but the source is still open Jan 07 03:34:44 it still is free Jan 07 03:34:47 i don't get it Jan 07 03:35:00 haha Jan 07 03:35:02 ajay: yeah, webos games in n900 was a bit easier than hildon apps in webos will be Jan 07 03:35:26 ajay: which Javier (the guy who did preenv for n900) said himself Jan 07 03:35:33 if you can compile from source: free, if you can't, 4.99 gets you the binaries Jan 07 03:35:45 that's rediculous Jan 07 03:35:59 eh Jan 07 03:35:59 ah the x-chat business model Jan 07 03:36:09 I see it like basically a "donate if you like it" button :p Jan 07 03:36:20 that guy got pissed when other people started offering the binaries Jan 07 03:36:39 yeah Jan 07 03:36:48 i bet he did... but it's his own damned fault Jan 07 03:36:49 so I like it, so I donated! no big deal Jan 07 03:36:54 what did he expect... lol Jan 07 03:37:04 mad dollahz Jan 07 03:37:09 SineOt, yeah :D it's great. i've been using ever since Adora suggested it Jan 07 03:37:13 yeah same Jan 07 03:37:23 ...but anyways Jan 07 03:37:26 mugen-: which app? Jan 07 03:37:28 xbmc and boxee remote Jan 07 03:37:34 I bought it because they addressed one of my pet peeves with it pretty darn quickly, and hey, a donation of 4.99 isn't that bad Jan 07 03:37:34 destinal, Textual Jan 07 03:37:42 naw Jan 07 03:38:01 if anyone likes my Boxee remote a donation of 4.99 would be appreciated lol ;o Jan 07 03:38:08 hehe Jan 07 03:38:21 bring it out of beta feed! i told you i'd give you 1.99 Jan 07 03:38:26 I will! Jan 07 03:38:28 Soon Jan 07 03:38:35 Probably after 0.9.7 gets pushed Jan 07 03:38:50 mugen-: the thing people are overlooking about open source apps for sale on the catalog is others can fork an app and sell it there also, legally. now, usually forking is undesirable, but again, it can happen Jan 07 03:39:16 I tried boxee. I found it t be really buggy Jan 07 03:39:30 but seriously how are they doing it destinal... how can they fork and sell gpl code? Jan 07 03:39:42 mugen-: how can anyone sell their own gpl code on the catalog? Jan 07 03:39:44 people are doing it Jan 07 03:40:10 and i guess it's not gpl, it's bsd license... but same difference Jan 07 03:40:23 mugen-: some people are selling gpl stuff they wrote also Jan 07 03:40:30 yea Jan 07 03:40:32 but someone else legally could fork and sell a copy alongside it Jan 07 03:40:33 that's just wrong Jan 07 03:40:39 not wrong at all Jan 07 03:41:18 sure it's ethical :P Jan 07 03:41:35 mugen-: gpl stuff doesn't have to be given away, the GNU people say absolutely you can sell your GPL works and it's great Jan 07 03:41:38 that's the only thing I don't like about open source. I don't care if you use my source to better your app, or improve the app I've made.. but don't take it and sell it without doing anything Jan 07 03:42:57 Tibfib: well someone can sell it for whatever they can sell it for, but I agree that there should be some improvement to add value ideally Jan 07 03:43:49 yeah. I know it's their right, just think it's lame. Jan 07 03:43:57 just a copy and sell on an app catalog seems kind of a lame thing to do Jan 07 03:45:30 if someone makes a derivative work and throws a lot of their own time and energy into it, it seems a lot more ethical. better still would be to donate a cut to the author of the original work Jan 07 03:45:46 that's where support and updates make a difference Jan 07 03:46:02 that's a good point Jan 07 03:46:13 the person who can best harness an open source development process (not just open source code) can out-develop an individual who is just cloning and selling Jan 07 03:46:45 very true. but the average joe is not going to understand this Jan 07 03:47:24 hold on... so what versions of the GPL forbid paid for distribution... i'm confused Jan 07 03:47:32 mugen-: none Jan 07 03:47:56 so you're telling me that i can take ubuntu. put it on cd and sell it like windows? Jan 07 03:48:21 mugen-: absolutely, if you can convince anyone to buy it. the buyer still gets the GPL benefits Jan 07 03:48:32 so you have to provide all code to comply with your license to it etc Jan 07 03:48:58 i need to brush up on my open source licensing understanding Jan 07 03:49:14 now if ubuntu has a trademark they can sue you if you call it ubuntu Jan 07 03:49:33 i'll just fork it as mubuntu Jan 07 03:49:44 which is why CentOS doesn't say redhat anywhere Jan 07 03:49:55 (not that they sell anything but same diffference) Jan 07 03:49:55 for Mof$*kin' Ubuntu Jan 07 03:50:03 it'll sell millions because of the name :P Jan 07 03:51:35 Tibfib: the average joe will probably realize that the people getting redhat get better support than the people getting centos Jan 07 03:51:48 Tibfib: so if centos was the same price, nobody would buy it over redhat Jan 07 03:52:13 * halfhalo is tired Jan 07 03:52:17 but buying an app and an OS are very different Jan 07 03:52:42 Tibfib: you still may need support on an app Jan 07 03:52:50 and which one gets updates and patches Jan 07 03:52:52 etc Jan 07 03:53:03 user opens catalog, sees two music apps, picks one randomly/cheaper, and goes with it Jan 07 03:53:09 reviews probably help most Jan 07 03:53:12 destinal: true Jan 07 03:53:15 indeed Jan 07 03:54:43 rwhitby: one of the most interesting things about these app catalogs on phones is they really make selling open source software practical. Jan 07 03:55:42 yep, you're paying for convenience Jan 07 03:55:52 * rwhitby bbl Jan 07 03:56:21 and since updates are automatic / free, for built in support too Jan 07 03:57:31 most users will probably spend a couple few bucks, but the hackers can still get the code and send patches to the author if they want to add features or whatever Jan 07 04:00:48 very good points. open source ftw Jan 07 04:02:43 can I add to that and just say "stuff that works ftw" :p Jan 07 04:11:21 FOSS FTW Jan 07 04:11:53 something about price on apps Jan 07 04:12:14 when the free versions of tweed, et al went away during oauthageddon Jan 07 04:12:24 the spaz user base increased like 200% Jan 07 04:12:26 funkatron: do you get enough donations to warrant development? Jan 07 04:12:41 Tibfib: no Jan 07 04:12:52 :/ Jan 07 04:13:10 in absolutely no way am I even breaking even, ignoring how much time I put into it Jan 07 04:13:32 I think over the course of 2 years I've maybe gotten $200 in donations Jan 07 04:13:39 wha? Jan 07 04:13:41 that's it? Jan 07 04:14:01 that sounds terrible Jan 07 04:14:02 that $1700 figure in the icon is mostly because a friend of mine gave me a ver nice laptop Jan 07 04:14:10 yep Jan 07 04:14:11 Shooot, I wish I had money to donate Jan 07 04:14:29 that's why I want to sell Koto. tired of not making money for apps Jan 07 04:14:40 over four years… One time I got a significant "donation" from an image hosting company of a few thousand dollars Jan 07 04:14:48 other than than, maybe $500 since I started in 2007 Jan 07 04:17:15 * oil sees no $ Jan 07 04:17:36 money? what money? Jan 07 04:17:40 but you have gotten pre's Jan 07 04:17:43 * HattCzech_pre runs and hides Jan 07 04:17:51 yes, devices i have recieved Jan 07 04:18:06 oh, and people donated so i could go to devdays Jan 07 04:18:12 nice Jan 07 04:18:21 too bad the world is cheap Jan 07 04:18:22 lucky :) Jan 07 04:18:30 hey oil, you at CES? Jan 07 04:18:34 no Jan 07 04:18:45 (or anyone else aside from halfhalo) Jan 07 04:18:53 * oil only knows of halfhalo Jan 07 04:19:12 I talked to HP and they aren't having any developer meetup like last year, which sucks Jan 07 04:19:13 That's because he fails Jan 07 04:19:30 but there will be some sort of announcement on Feb 9th Jan 07 04:19:55 Oil fails at red mine Jan 07 04:20:46 HattCzech_pre: I think that's bad info Jan 07 04:20:54 I hope it's something like "here is a 4G phone that blows all other phones out of the water! and it's available now!" Jan 07 04:20:54 and by fails, you mean, expected it to work Jan 07 04:21:00 that when i resove an issue it goes away Jan 07 04:21:11 * Tibfib hopes for Austin devday Jan 07 04:21:12 bad info how? Jan 07 04:21:20 why would they stop? Jan 07 04:21:43 Because they're trying to arrange developer meet ups monthly? :p Jan 07 04:21:46 The default view is for all non closed issues Jan 07 04:22:08 I also hope for Austin, assuming I'm not in Vegas at the time ;) Jan 07 04:22:58 * Tibfib would prefer KC, but Austin is more realistic Jan 07 04:23:08 I dunno, just do them at Palm HQ? ;x Jan 07 04:23:15 okay, time to sleep. adios all Jan 07 04:23:20 washington state! Jan 07 04:23:21 * SineOt wants an excuse to head up to the bay area. Jan 07 04:23:24 adios Jan 07 04:23:30 but Ausitn is nicer :) Jan 07 04:23:33 * Tibfib wouldn't mind an excuse if he had the money Jan 07 04:23:33 PALM PARTY AT OIL'S HOUUUUUSE Jan 07 04:23:37 srsly Jan 07 04:24:04 at least hte wifi will work Jan 07 04:24:55 on a completely unrelated note other than CES, it's kind of neat to see the RIM playbook stuff take a lot of cue's from webOS Jan 07 04:25:14 Yeah, after seeing Honeycomb the Playbook kind of... Looks a lot better Jan 07 04:25:28 que webos tablet Jan 07 04:25:31 now they just need to ramp up the marketshare. :) Jan 07 04:26:20 Yeah I'm really hoping the webOS tablet doesn't suck Jan 07 04:26:22 i still think they need a non-cellular device on the "cheap" ..$200 MSRP wifi/bluetooth pda device Jan 07 04:26:25 Moo Jan 07 04:26:28 And is awesome looking Jan 07 04:26:44 * oil bets its a black rectangle Jan 07 04:26:52 yeah Jan 07 04:26:58 tungsten t5 ;) Jan 07 04:27:02 I bet it's a triangle Jan 07 04:27:11 * oil will take that bet! Jan 07 04:27:15 the thing that bugs me about this new device stuff is that we still don't have resolution-dependent development stuff Jan 07 04:27:21 so either Jan 07 04:27:28 no input, no output, just smooth black and monolith shaped Jan 07 04:27:29 you mean, independent? Jan 07 04:27:37 yeah, my bad independent 8D Jan 07 04:27:40 :) Jan 07 04:27:45 1. that announcement is going to be a month or two before devices come out Jan 07 04:27:47 thats what enyo is supposed to solve though, no? Jan 07 04:27:51 yes, it is Jan 07 04:28:11 but, uh, I am not under and NDAs related to that. Jan 07 04:28:12 i doubt they'll release the tabet before thats in devs hands Jan 07 04:28:20 right Jan 07 04:28:34 but I'll tell ya, a month for example isn't much time Jan 07 04:28:39 since im sure they'll rewrite the built-in stuff with it Jan 07 04:28:44 i think they did a poor job with the roll out of 2.0, in all honesty Jan 07 04:28:47 yeah, a month is not Jan 07 04:28:52 What roll out of 2.0? :p Jan 07 04:28:56 i only work on like 7 or 8 apps? Jan 07 04:28:56 exactly Jan 07 04:28:56 lol Jan 07 04:29:09 * oil is not looking forward to switching them over Jan 07 04:29:12 so how much lead time do you need to build apps, ya know? Jan 07 04:29:18 I think we'll see 2.0 rolled out to everything on the 9th Jan 07 04:29:25 funkatron, it really depends on what you're doing Jan 07 04:29:28 and I don't think it's just the tablets Jan 07 04:29:29 2.0 is out!?!?!? WHAT!?! Jan 07 04:29:34 hehehe :) Jan 07 04:29:35 rollout of 2.0 is really up to carriers, no? Jan 07 04:29:44 Lies Jan 07 04:29:49 if you need feature that's only on version , then you can't do anything until you have version Jan 07 04:29:53 well Jan 07 04:29:56 here's my concern: Jan 07 04:30:02 funkatron: at devdays they said mojo and enyo will coexist for a while Jan 07 04:30:04 I think so, but there haven't been any rumors of 2.0 getting submitted to carriers for review Jan 07 04:30:08 before mojo is fazed out Jan 07 04:30:14 if it's just simple modifications to mojo, that's one thing Jan 07 04:30:26 Enyo is from what I know entirely new Jan 07 04:30:28 but mojo stuff still relies on a 320px wide screen Jan 07 04:30:32 but Mojo isn't going anywhere fast Jan 07 04:30:37 not really funkatron Jan 07 04:30:41 it doesn't? Jan 07 04:30:45 not really Jan 07 04:30:48 I set the 1.4.5 emulator to 800x600 and most stuff displays fine Jan 07 04:30:58 because I can go find you examples where they set the width of headers with pixels Jan 07 04:31:01 any stuff that hasn't been coded to a specific width Jan 07 04:31:07 SineOt: the launcher bar is really unhappy about it and the launcher cards kind of double up Jan 07 04:31:14 but apps are typically just fine Jan 07 04:31:40 but regardless Jan 07 04:31:50 well, yeah, but if they did release a tablet launcher bar stuff and launcher cards aren't really things that an end user developer would be dealing with Jan 07 04:31:52 so let me put it this way: there are some places -- notably button headers -- where pixel width is hardcoded Jan 07 04:31:54 enyo will be better for larger widths Jan 07 04:31:56 and could realistically be fixed Jan 07 04:31:58 it's HTML, css, etc, shouldn't be a shock that it works at other resolutions Jan 07 04:32:02 enyo ftw though Jan 07 04:32:15 funkatron: did you watch the enyo devdays vid? Jan 07 04:32:19 yep Jan 07 04:32:25 good :) Jan 07 04:32:41 * SineOt still needs to watch those one of these days :p Jan 07 04:33:03 anyway. yes, I'm overreacting a bit Jan 07 04:33:30 funkatron: considering that there's a tablet coming out I'm sure palm's already tackled this stuff Jan 07 04:33:45 err HP now Jan 07 04:33:53 "the mothership" Jan 07 04:34:00 thats not really what he is concerned about Jan 07 04:34:00 well, I would have been sure they'd ship the 1.0 OS with an open dev program too. Jan 07 04:34:16 funkatron: would be nice to have an open 2.0 SDK by now.... Jan 07 04:34:21 about the time between when devs get enyo to a product that needs it is launched Jan 07 04:34:22 and that Jan 07 04:34:31 sure are a lot of cool looking tablets at CES tho... Jan 07 04:34:32 dude, submitting a 2.0 app is still a mess. Jan 07 04:34:43 we haven't been able to submit wIRC yet Jan 07 04:34:52 (admittedly I had some bigger issues with it because of the holidays) Jan 07 04:35:23 99% of what i do is all in homebrew though, so i dont have to mess with that Jan 07 04:35:37 rigt Jan 07 04:35:41 I haven't updated my 2 catalog apps in well over a year, lol Jan 07 04:35:47 8) Jan 07 04:36:13 anyway. it just makes me anxious Jan 07 04:36:48 some of the stuff that still requires someone at Palm to press a button is kind of annoying yeah Jan 07 04:37:03 yeah, it's good to own the button Jan 07 04:37:07 * oil gets rwhitby to push buttons Jan 07 04:37:07 lol Jan 07 04:37:20 Lol Jan 07 04:37:27 "(app) is probably good for release" Jan 07 04:37:29 Beta apps without review getting stuck waiting for someone to push a button = laaaaame Jan 07 04:37:45 well, there are at least 20 people who can push webos-internals homebrew release buttons Jan 07 04:38:00 Although updates getting marked "request rejection" and then getting pushed anyways are even lamer :( Jan 07 04:38:25 i haven't dealt with their portal in a long time Jan 07 04:38:30 but it was pretty bad back then Jan 07 04:38:37 Real men don't test Jan 07 04:39:07 :p Jan 07 04:39:34 Yep, I had a "request rejection" get pushed anyway a couple weeks ago Jan 07 04:39:44 halfhalo: where you staying in vegas? Jan 07 04:40:01 you should be able to pull your app from the list without palm needing to be there Jan 07 04:40:01 Excrapliber Jan 07 04:40:27 Yeah, oil, that's what I thought. Especially since it's a Beta feed app and by design doesn't get reviewed. Jan 07 04:40:32 hehe, well at least it's on the strip Jan 07 04:40:39 Eeeeh Jan 07 04:40:40 i can see needing approval before going in Jan 07 04:40:42 Turns out it does get reviewed, since it needs someone to push a button to actually publist it. Jan 07 04:40:43 but if you submitted it Jan 07 04:40:45 I'm at the Ramada, but it was cheap Jan 07 04:40:47 and decided "oh, typed that wrong" Jan 07 04:40:50 Long walk to monorail Jan 07 04:40:51 and want it back so you can redo it Jan 07 04:40:54 it shouldn't take days Jan 07 04:40:56 That's basically what I did. Jan 07 04:41:03 Took 5 days for the rejection to get processed. Jan 07 04:41:07 yeah Jan 07 04:41:12 And ended up with it getting pushed to the Beta catalog anyways. Jan 07 04:41:24 you should be able to hit a button like "nevermind" Jan 07 04:41:27 is there no CES bus from there? Jan 07 04:41:27 "ignore this" Jan 07 04:41:30 lol Jan 07 04:41:38 Which totally defeats the purpose of requesting the rejection in the first place! Jan 07 04:41:45 yeah Jan 07 04:41:47 There is but it's a pain Jan 07 04:42:27 * oil goes to get dinner Jan 07 04:42:37 oil: the rejection should also not force a revision change, either Jan 07 04:42:41 but it does :/ Jan 07 04:44:16 Wow, that's... Really stupid. Jan 07 04:44:42 halfhalo, want to meet up at hp tomorrow and harass them about not having a developer meetup? :) Jan 07 04:45:20 I was actually gonna go to the next dev meetup! Jan 07 04:45:39 No time Jan 07 04:45:51 Have to make the rounds to get free stuff Jan 07 04:46:10 gotta get your t-shirts Jan 07 04:46:16 I mean..... Demo units Jan 07 04:46:19 did you get anything yet? Jan 07 04:46:38 if you do, let me know where to go Jan 07 04:46:58 You press? Jan 07 04:47:06 I got free reese's minis today, they were awesome Jan 07 04:47:12 no, are you? Jan 07 04:47:15 And most stuff I have is ndad Jan 07 04:47:17 Yes Jan 07 04:47:30 motherf! Jan 07 04:47:39 I need to follow you around Jan 07 04:47:44 Lol Jan 07 04:47:49 you'll get to see cool stuff Jan 07 04:48:09 * HattCzech_pre needs to figure out how to be press Jan 07 04:48:15 I have cool Samsung USB solar chargers Jan 07 04:48:22 * HattCzech_pre borrows halfhalo's badge holder Jan 07 04:48:30 grab an extra Jan 07 04:48:36 A motocharger.... Ummmm.... Wat else Jan 07 04:48:39 I used to work there and never got that shit Jan 07 04:48:40 I has extras Jan 07 04:48:41 how lame Jan 07 04:48:50 They were from the press day Jan 07 04:49:22 what company do you work for? Jan 07 04:49:53 It's a site called pcgamingcorner... I think Jan 07 04:50:03 you think? Jan 07 04:50:06 do you have something that can charge my phone? Jan 07 04:50:48 Yeeees Jan 07 04:51:03 and portable battery or anything? Jan 07 04:51:11 Yeeees Jan 07 04:51:22 ok, I need to find you tomorrow Jan 07 04:51:32 and steal your stuff :) Jan 07 04:51:42 Hahno Jan 07 04:52:00 I will beat you senseless Jan 07 04:52:12 hahaha Jan 07 04:52:25 you going to any keynotes tomorrow? Jan 07 04:52:39 Nope Jan 07 04:52:53 Meetings all day Jan 07 04:53:51 damn Jan 07 04:53:51 EYALL Jan 07 04:54:26 sup, torchie? Jan 07 04:54:31 not much Jan 07 04:54:32 just chillin Jan 07 04:54:37 bought the incident in mac app store Jan 07 04:54:38 More chances for free stuff ^H^H^Hdemo units Jan 07 04:54:45 can't play it because broken left arrow key Jan 07 04:55:12 * HattCzech_pre needs to start a blog and become press :) Jan 07 04:55:46 to tumblr! Jan 07 04:55:54 Hehe Jan 07 04:55:57 wordpress Jan 07 04:56:06 halfhalo, you available sat before noonish? Jan 07 04:56:15 * halfhalo uses his technologyguide connections as well Jan 07 04:56:31 * HattCzech_pre is jealous Jan 07 04:56:31 Nope Jan 07 04:56:40 Sat at 1 yes Jan 07 04:56:45 I think Jan 07 04:56:57 that would probably work Jan 07 04:57:00 maybe Jan 07 04:57:19 flying out sometime that afternoon, need to figure out when Jan 07 04:58:01 I have a meeting with archos on sun Jan 07 04:58:25 sweet Jan 07 05:00:27 * HattCzech_pre want free stuff too :( Jan 07 05:00:40 None for you Higgins, Jan 07 05:02:04 * halfhalo has a a steel series catalog here and is deciding what to review Jan 07 05:03:45 free stuff is good stuff Jan 07 05:04:33 indeed Jan 07 05:04:47 But... We have reviewed most of this stuff already... Hmmm Jan 07 05:05:20 so does that mean you can give me extra free stuff? Jan 07 05:05:31 No Jan 07 05:05:48 Getting gigabyte stuff as well Jan 07 05:05:49 gah! but why not? :) Jan 07 05:06:29 lol, http://best-tshirts-ever.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/cookie-cutter-tshirt.png Jan 07 05:06:39 Because i actually do reviewed on stuff? Jan 07 05:07:01 I can review stuff too :) Jan 07 05:07:40 ... Jan 07 05:08:01 hehehe Jan 07 05:08:33 well, if you have time, maybe we can meet up Jan 07 05:08:52 I can physically meet another webos developer :) Jan 07 05:09:00 Ohohoh.... Killer nics! Jan 07 05:09:25 awesome Jan 07 05:09:35 on gigabyte boards? Jan 07 05:09:47 Yeah, and standalone Jan 07 05:10:07 Meeting with bigfootnnetworks tomorrow Jan 07 05:10:23 cool Jan 07 05:10:29 man, I am so jealous Jan 07 05:10:46 Did a gigabyte thing today, and the rave/press event last night Jan 07 05:10:51 ah well, walking into viva elvis... i'll be back on later Jan 07 05:10:57 Kk Jan 07 05:11:15 talk to ya later, and hopefully meet you sometime Jan 07 05:11:20 adios for now Jan 07 05:21:27 halo, you have a review site? Jan 07 06:18:08 holy shite... the nook color is badass once it's rooted Jan 07 06:18:22 Yeah it's pretty awesome Jan 07 06:18:23 i need to get a hold of the one i bought my mother for xmas >:D Jan 07 06:18:38 yay weekend project! Jan 07 06:18:50 all the 3d games run so well on it Jan 07 06:18:52 i'm stunned Jan 07 07:02:43 lol... ubuntu on the nook color Jan 07 07:02:46 now that's funny Jan 07 07:02:55 why would you subject yourself to that Jan 07 07:03:14 no idea... but it's still interesting Jan 07 07:03:35 at least do something touch friendly... Like Meego's slate build Jan 07 07:03:45 heh, yea Jan 07 07:26:27 btw... Giving this ustream thing another go. Anyone interested in some late night drum and bass -> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/late-night-rapide Jan 07 07:35:24 "I'm totally addicted to bass" Jan 07 07:35:29 whoa uh oh! Jan 07 07:36:54 sea bass? Jan 07 07:37:50 heh Jan 07 07:38:25 lol... view count goes up but only one person stays Jan 07 07:39:26 * dohtem left :O Jan 07 07:39:53 more bass. :) Jan 07 07:40:40 * oil joined, was given an ad, left Jan 07 07:42:01 yeah :( sorry oil... i'm working on getting a stream on my hosted server so that doesn't happen Jan 07 07:42:41 what ad? Jan 07 07:42:58 from ustream i assume Jan 07 07:43:06 for something Jan 07 07:43:49 yea, ustream serves up garbage Jan 07 07:44:45 * dohtem has pretty aggressive adblocking Jan 07 07:45:07 i just see a spinning circle but the audio comes just fine once the page loads Jan 07 07:45:15 it's in the flash client before/during the stream Jan 07 07:46:44 there should be text scrolling now... Jan 07 07:47:26 heh, i see it Jan 07 07:47:33 ph34r my 31337 pr0duktion sk1llz Jan 07 07:48:17 lol, looks like a win98 screensaver ;P Jan 07 07:48:19 oh, hey mugen- Jan 07 07:48:26 what's up buddy Jan 07 07:48:52 http://readthefuckinghig.tumblr.com/ < someone's started documenting all the terrible, terrible HIG breakers in the Mac App Store Jan 07 07:51:01 hold on.. what the hell is a HIG? Jan 07 07:51:33 human interface guidelines Jan 07 07:51:41 ah Jan 07 07:51:48 yea, there are some doozers :( Jan 07 08:03:11 mugen-: you were probably in the uk during that jungle craze in the mid to late nineties, right? Jan 07 08:03:30 kinda tail end Jan 07 08:04:14 was there till 96 Jan 07 08:05:18 ah Jan 07 08:05:52 but i was only just getting out into the scene around 94, so yeah... Jan 07 08:05:56 there was this popular song by mr. incredible Jan 07 08:06:02 junglist massive, or something Jan 07 08:06:11 oh yeah :) Jan 07 08:06:32 i know what you're talking about, i'm pretty sure i have it somewhere Jan 07 08:07:00 found it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSZwwMeKOo Jan 07 08:07:37 yup Jan 07 08:07:53 lol.. ofcourse its got a picture of dope. Jan 07 08:08:00 * mugen- rolls his eyes Jan 07 08:08:45 heh Jan 07 08:08:51 thats early drum and bas Jan 07 08:08:54 bass Jan 07 08:11:50 I love Pictures for Sad Children, I think that says something deep about myself Jan 07 08:13:07 never read any of it Jan 07 08:14:13 http://www.picturesforsadchildren.com/index.php?comicID=368 Jan 07 08:18:30 hehe Jan 07 08:23:58 i don't get it Jan 07 08:23:59 http://picturesforsadchildren.com/index.php?comicID=365 Jan 07 08:24:01 or them Jan 07 08:24:03 for that matter Jan 07 08:25:09 some aren't -too- great and the best advice is to think about them in the mindset of someone who's horribly depressed Jan 07 08:25:14 (maybe that's why I enjoy them) Jan 07 08:26:21 :( Jan 07 09:23:49 grr. i'm so intimidated by css and html :( Jan 07 09:24:11 my js core looks great, and when it's time to program the front end i get all nervous Jan 07 09:24:16 and don't know where to start Jan 07 09:24:20 need some help? Jan 07 09:24:27 or want? Jan 07 09:24:59 I'll help, just... Not at 1:21 in the morning Jan 07 09:25:12 meh... i don't think it's something that can be helped. i just have to find a way to wrap my head around it all Jan 07 09:25:13 hey, my timezone! Jan 07 09:25:33 but thanks though Jan 07 09:25:38 if you want to make things simple, only worry about id's and classes Jan 07 09:25:49 yeah... Jan 07 09:26:16 IDs should only exist once, but you can apply the same class to as much as you want Jan 07 09:26:18 i guess what i get nervous about is things like css positioning, display, css tables, margins, and positioning Jan 07 09:26:35 and since it's HTML5 supported, go hog wild with making your own tags if it means something makes more sense to you Jan 07 09:26:45 see, i'm so nervous about positioning, i said it twice :P Jan 07 09:26:49 you shouldn't need to worry about those things in css normally Jan 07 09:27:00 is ~totally~ legit Jan 07 09:27:09 aaaaah the positioning is the easy part Jan 07 09:27:18 especially since webOS handles a lot of it for you Jan 07 09:27:26 and supports flexboxes which can handle the rest for you Jan 07 09:27:29 ahhh Jan 07 09:27:30 positioning makes more sense when you think of padding as the rectangle messing with it's outside space, and margin as the inside space Jan 07 09:28:06 gotcha Jan 07 09:28:18 i think i just need to boot up dreamweaver and kick the tires a bit Jan 07 09:28:21 er, think you got those two mixed up Jan 07 09:28:23 maybe roll through some tutorials Jan 07 09:28:27 padding is well, padding the inside of the box Jan 07 09:28:43 margins is putting some more space between the edges of your box and the rest of the world Jan 07 09:28:52 haha, you're right Jan 07 09:28:56 although put like that it makes it sound like the box model is basically a coffin Jan 07 09:29:00 containing the dead remains of your content Jan 07 09:29:09 noooooooooooo Jan 07 09:29:12 hehe Jan 07 09:29:13 as you throw it into the cold, uncaring ground that is the DOM Jan 07 09:29:14 :C Jan 07 09:29:23 the DOM is pretty uncaring Jan 07 09:29:36 * mugen- shakes a fist at the DOM Jan 07 09:29:41 damn you Jan 07 09:30:07 can either of you think of any hand holding css/html5 tuts Jan 07 09:30:10 dreamweaver should do most of it, though it also adds a bunch of cruft that will be really useless in webos Jan 07 09:30:24 hmm Jan 07 09:30:30 ahhhh maybe reading Cat and Girl at 1:30 in the morning was a bad idea Jan 07 09:30:39 i've always just googled for how to do things as i come across them Jan 07 09:30:48 hey mugen-, you use OSX right Jan 07 09:30:52 yup Jan 07 09:30:56 espresso? :) Jan 07 09:31:02 do you use Safari? Jan 07 09:31:05 oh.. nm Jan 07 09:31:07 no Jan 07 09:31:09 usually chrome Jan 07 09:31:13 or Chrome for that matter Jan 07 09:31:19 find a site you see something done on Jan 07 09:31:26 right click it, inspect element Jan 07 09:31:29 yeah, element inspector Jan 07 09:31:31 and fiddle with the CSS Jan 07 09:31:57 you can turn things on and off, adjust values Jan 07 09:32:03 and see what it changes in real time Jan 07 09:32:06 yeah, i mean i know you guys are right... i just need to practice with it, and like you said fiddle Jan 07 09:32:20 almost all the CSS I know right now I learned by basically picking apart what other people had done that I liked Jan 07 09:32:36 and they probably learned it by picking apart what other people had done, and so on and so on Jan 07 09:32:42 heh Jan 07 09:32:44 yea Jan 07 09:32:49 and in the end that's basically all a tutorial is, just picking it apart with some pictures and words Jan 07 09:38:22 oh man ultra depression mode kicking in :( Jan 07 10:50:52 preffered development environment for html/js ? Jan 07 11:03:22 platform? Jan 07 11:03:58 envirement Jan 07 11:04:00 eclipse ect Jan 07 11:04:10 what's your os? Jan 07 11:35:31 windows Jan 07 12:46:55 morning folks Jan 07 12:47:13 morning LoneStar99 Jan 07 12:47:47 longtime no chat happy 2011 Jan 07 12:48:15 also you :) Jan 07 12:48:19 thanks Jan 07 12:48:34 how has everything been? Jan 07 12:48:42 slow Jan 07 12:48:51 what about you? still busy? Jan 07 12:50:51 have not done any webos development in months, have been busy with web projects Jan 07 12:51:15 will hopefully be able to webos develop again in about 2-3 weeeks Jan 07 12:51:25 yer i know Jan 07 12:51:35 but is the developemt gping god? Jan 07 12:51:38 good* Jan 07 12:52:58 yeah, need to turn in one project next week Jan 07 12:53:11 so it is crunch time this entire weekend Jan 07 12:53:20 no beers for me Jan 07 12:53:23 hehe Jan 07 12:54:39 still in mexico Jan 07 12:55:15 yer Jan 07 12:55:20 i thought you woukld stay there? Jan 07 12:56:25 hotdp, sorry i ended up having to leave the house in an emergency. Jan 07 12:56:38 mugen- sorry ti hear that Jan 07 12:56:44 windows, use Dreamweaver for web work... Jan 07 12:57:07 you can also use komodo edit Jan 07 12:57:14 hotdp, ah it was all good. gf got a flat tire and i had to play superman Jan 07 12:57:37 yeah, if you just need a code recognizer, komodo is good too Jan 07 12:57:39 hotdp: neah going back to san diego, but still not sure when, shooting for this month Jan 07 12:57:55 aptana studio is pretty awesome too Jan 07 12:58:09 yeah Jan 07 12:58:47 all i know is these mexican girls are tough atleast the upper scale ones.... Jan 07 12:58:52 * hotdp has just installed aptna studio Jan 07 12:59:12 But i need a good black scheme, mugen-: do you have that? Jan 07 12:59:27 i think i use aptna studio plugin in eclipse maybe I am incorrect Jan 07 12:59:41 LoneStar99, that's right Jan 07 13:00:02 hotdp, black scheme? Jan 07 13:00:22 yer Jan 07 13:00:24 are you referring to the interface theme? Jan 07 13:00:29 yes Jan 07 13:00:49 i've not done much customizing... might have to search or ask someone else Jan 07 13:02:38 https://aptanastudio.tenderapp.com/discussions/suggestions/101-loco-color-scheme-for-aptana Jan 07 13:02:42 but link is dead :s Jan 07 13:05:39 yeah... i see that :\ Jan 07 13:06:29 ok brb later need to finish writting a tutorial Jan 07 13:45:28 when doing an app meta update, I get the screen your app will be available within 24 hours with a long link, but when i go back to apps page, it states "incomplete".... Jan 07 13:46:34 strange Jan 07 13:46:45 yeah, kinda sucks Jan 07 13:46:51 it happens with most of my apps Jan 07 13:47:28 can never successfully update meta information, hence costing money and downloads =( Jan 07 13:48:27 kinda pisses me off... Jan 07 13:48:47 talk to palm Jan 07 13:49:07 then the submission hangs for upwards to 10 minutes Jan 07 13:49:38 complain to palm :D Jan 07 13:52:47 yeah gonna email them right now Jan 07 13:54:27 no reason bringing the bad mood inhere Jan 07 13:54:31 its friday Jan 07 13:55:02 lol Jan 07 13:55:19 * hotdp going out for martinis in 3 hours Jan 07 13:55:36 just got an email from one of the projects, "they really need to talk" tommorrow Jan 07 13:55:48 that usually not a good thing... Jan 07 13:56:13 lol Jan 07 13:56:17 cant you talk now? Jan 07 13:56:20 so you can sleep? Jan 07 13:56:38 emailed them if they meant today or tommorrow Jan 07 13:56:59 Hmm what to choose appcelerator or sencha? Jan 07 13:57:21 what is the palm email? Jan 07 13:57:28 pdc Jan 07 13:57:52 not sure.. pdcATpalm.com ? Jan 07 13:58:13 yes Jan 07 14:02:33 ok emailed them Jan 07 14:04:38 thanks Jan 07 14:06:25 hotdp: pomtini ? Jan 07 14:06:45 no :( i do not know what was in it Jan 07 14:06:53 and i dont think he can remember ;P Jan 07 14:08:21 damn 5 incompletes ... Jan 07 14:08:38 out of 6 =( Jan 07 14:47:16 afternoon Jan 07 14:47:46 hey Jan 07 14:48:26 swisstomcat Jan 07 14:48:57 hey hotdp Jan 07 14:49:05 i need your help Jan 07 14:49:26 appcelerator ? Jan 07 14:55:23 halo swisstomcat Jan 07 14:55:51 http://scobleizer.com/2011/01/07/tablets/ Jan 07 14:55:56 hey lonestar Jan 07 14:56:00 hotdp: what about it? Jan 07 15:10:21 dohtem ping Jan 07 15:10:30 bah hes not here Jan 07 15:16:49 yay, going to MWC in barcelona (sponsored by hp/palm) Jan 07 15:25:15 swisstomcat cool read you tweet Jan 07 15:25:30 appcelerator as an alternative? have you talked about that? Jan 07 15:26:24 swisstomcat please write an email with the anser Jan 07 15:26:27 i have to leave Jan 07 16:20:58 swisstomcat ? Jan 07 16:40:05 hi Jan 07 16:58:51 rwhitby: Had some problems with a previous version of freeTether. Who should I talk with? Jan 07 17:11:33 chuqui: Morning Jan 07 17:12:02 Roy-Pre101: morning! Jan 07 17:12:06 how's vegas? Jan 07 17:12:40 Haven't seen much of it. Good so far. Jan 07 17:15:19 Roy-Pre101: have fun! Jan 07 17:17:04 Will do. Jan 07 18:08:15 being sick sucks (on day 2..) but having lost back on netflix instant streaming makes it a little more bareable ;P Jan 07 18:08:25 rewatching the entire series Jan 07 19:22:20 ahhhhhhhhhhh I'm going to have a baby niece!!!! :D Jan 07 19:22:42 all the guys in my family are so excited we could burst!!!! Jan 07 19:28:44 y0 esses! Jan 07 20:12:05 hehehehe Jan 07 20:12:41 * halfhalo got back from the Dolby Lounge Jan 07 20:16:40 anything exciting? Jan 07 20:18:05 grab bag had nice ass coasters, and blu ray copies of the hangover and dexter season 4 Jan 07 20:18:15 was in the suite from the hangover Jan 07 20:27:31 Poor Palm, iPhone on Verizon rumored to launch Feb 3rd. Jan 07 20:27:48 Didn't the Pre 1 launch coincide with the 3GS launch? Jan 07 20:30:07 yeah Jan 07 20:40:14 huh..I wonder if verizon is going to back away from its droid 24/7 marketing for that Jan 07 20:47:59 hey guys Jan 07 20:48:03 I have a question on filter lists Jan 07 20:48:20 http://ifiboughtyourappalreadycaniupdateitthroughthemacappstore.com/ <- bwahaha Jan 07 20:48:34 when you scroll a filter list, the list is supposed to call the filterFunction to update the list as you scroll Jan 07 20:48:44 so what would cause it to not call the filterFunction when you scroll? Jan 07 21:02:12 dohtem : "just in case you wanted the apps you bought before the app store to stay away from app store DRM" Jan 07 21:02:37 lol Jan 07 21:04:30 what's a decent time to announce and release hppalm products anyway Jan 07 21:05:11 now Jan 07 21:05:19 yeah now's pretty good Jan 07 21:05:23 like right the hell now Jan 07 21:05:42 apple has spring and summer on lockdown and everything else is GOT A BIG DICK? GET A BIG PHONE -- THE DROID BIONIC Jan 07 21:05:52 only on verizon with verizon TV, verizon movie app, verizon FOOTBALL Jan 07 21:06:30 lol Jan 07 21:06:34 AT&T has some big phones coming too. Infuse, Inspire, Atrix Jan 07 21:06:49 * oil doesn't want to carry around a dinnerplate as his phone Jan 07 21:07:23 also a big verizon logo on the front so you don't forget what carrier you're on Jan 07 21:07:45 no Jan 07 21:07:52 thats so when you show it off they know where to get it Jan 07 21:07:53 and 6 inches vertical away from that a motorola with google logo Jan 07 21:08:17 ooooh ic Jan 07 21:08:23 now it all makes sense Jan 07 21:08:26 it's not about the phones Jan 07 21:08:30 it's about the carriers! Jan 07 21:08:34 you pay them a bunch of money to advertize for them Jan 07 21:08:55 its like if anyone is standing infront of me when i slide out the keyboard Jan 07 21:09:01 sprint, right there on the mirror catching their eye Jan 07 21:09:16 omg that ish looks HOT Jan 07 21:09:18 imma switch to sprint Jan 07 21:10:27 see Jan 07 21:10:47 i checked my shave in the pre mirror today Jan 07 21:10:50 technology! Jan 07 21:10:51 lol Jan 07 21:10:57 * oil has done that Jan 07 21:11:02 lol, dorks Jan 07 21:11:04 :) Jan 07 21:11:13 yo man I just switched to single blade disposables Jan 07 21:11:16 says the guy here on the internet with us Jan 07 21:11:21 revolution or bull -- who knows Jan 07 21:11:37 touche oil Jan 07 21:11:43 lolnternt Jan 07 21:12:11 its like going to a lan party, setting up your machine, then standing up and calling everyone a bunch of nerds Jan 07 21:12:28 I'm still waiting the webOS 2.0 update for my Pixi!!! :D Jan 07 21:12:45 you and PuffTheMagic Jan 07 21:12:53 * dohtem makes a list Jan 07 21:12:58 I'm waiting for a phone Jan 07 21:12:59 ;-; Jan 07 21:13:04 * oil goes back to work Jan 07 21:13:07 nerds Jan 07 21:13:28 NEEEERRRRRDS Jan 07 21:13:40 hahaha look at all of you caring about phones and stuff Jan 07 21:13:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRuuF-5ZST8 Jan 07 21:13:51 * torchie MUSTANG Jan 07 21:14:03 ok, bbl Jan 07 21:14:26 what up SineOt Jan 07 21:14:39 Not much. Realizing I missed an email from Boxee. :p Jan 07 21:14:55 They say that I should rename my app from Boxee Remote for webOS to for Boxee. P: Jan 07 21:15:05 It's a remote, what the hell am I supposed to brand it with. XD Jan 07 21:15:19 remotee Jan 07 21:15:20 Remitt Jan 07 21:15:24 remotee Jan 07 21:15:30 Remimottee Jan 07 21:15:54 meh Jan 07 21:15:55 lies Jan 07 21:16:22 "Unofficial Boxee Remote *wink* *wink* for webOS" Jan 07 21:16:41 SineOt: you could make one app that remotes various things, but splitting them out you sell more apps :P Jan 07 21:16:54 I -was- debating that Jan 07 21:17:13 Because the XBMC and Boxee APIs are only going to get more divergent as time goes by Jan 07 21:23:05 SineOt: boxee remote is web dist only? Jan 07 21:23:34 It's beta only right now because well, it's beta and I've been waiting on hearing back from Boxee Jan 07 21:37:12 I guess I could do "Squish Remote for Boxee" and "Squish Remote for XBMC" Jan 07 21:43:05 can I hold down the 'orange' button in the emulator? Jan 07 21:53:12 on OS X I think it's the OPT key Jan 07 21:53:17 but maybe that's not it Jan 07 21:57:12 think it's alt in linux Jan 07 21:57:18 probably windows too Jan 07 21:58:23 also, the emulator works just fine in virtualbox 3 ose Jan 07 22:07:29 it's alt. Jan 07 22:07:32 thanks guys Jan 07 22:15:42 hmm Jan 07 22:15:52 I don't remember the phone responding well to switching batteries Jan 07 22:15:54 whatever, sweet! Jan 07 22:29:15 hmm, I feel like making a google voice app Jan 07 22:32:03 DNS boggles my mind. Jan 07 22:34:37 SineOt: DNS boggles it's own mind Jan 07 22:34:46 That it does Jan 07 22:34:49 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/272383-webos-developer-map.html Jan 07 22:36:00 world maps with the IDL right down the middle should be burned! Jan 07 22:54:26 heh zeemaps, rather than "we map your lists" should say "google maps your lists" Jan 07 22:54:27 that map thing is cool Jan 07 22:54:27 :) Jan 07 23:06:24 Tibfib: are you going to do the google voice app? Jan 07 23:06:52 If someone did the service stuff and I got to do the UI, yes Jan 07 23:07:02 don't want to wrestle that Jan 07 23:09:13 arg, any app ideas I have are 2.0 only, and even then enyo is coming soon Jan 07 23:12:45 Tibfib: webosinternals has service writers but not enough mojo devs :) Jan 07 23:13:18 you know, that's not a bad idea Jan 07 23:14:05 oilsworkn: have you guys started working on preware 2.0? Jan 07 23:14:09 and by not enough, i mean, its pretty much just me Jan 07 23:14:21 and the others do their best with jks Jan 07 23:14:23 js* Jan 07 23:14:42 Tibfib: not really Jan 07 23:15:35 a lot of the changes are server-side Jan 07 23:15:40 which we've yet to work out Jan 07 23:17:27 oilsworkn: let me know when you start the mojo stuff. I'd love to help out Jan 07 23:17:54 should dl the source and get familiar with it Jan 07 23:18:05 making mojo messenger seriously taught me I like doing UIs, not server stuff Jan 07 23:18:18 * Tibfib dls Jan 07 23:18:26 and there is always stuff to do for current preware: http://redmine.webos-internals.org/projects/preware/issues Jan 07 23:18:58 Tibfib: i agree, i enjoy doing front-ends more then back ends Jan 07 23:23:12 but the plans we setup for preware 2 were before enyo was teased Jan 07 23:23:19 the enyo rewrite will probably end up being 2.0 Jan 07 23:23:34 oh, that's a good point Jan 07 23:23:34 well, i guess thats depending on how long it takes for enyo to drop Jan 07 23:23:48 if its next year this time, we will probably not wait Jan 07 23:23:52 lol Jan 07 23:23:55 I guess it would be sort of worthless to start now Jan 07 23:23:56 will there be an active effort to push devs to rewrite to use Enyo? Jan 07 23:24:09 I think so Jan 07 23:24:10 probably Jan 07 23:24:18 mojo isn't so good for tablet-sized devices Jan 07 23:24:21 enyo is the solution Jan 07 23:24:41 oilsworkn: is installing being handled somewhere else in the plans? Jan 07 23:24:51 like dashboard, or better yet, background? Jan 07 23:25:02 dont think we've gotten that far Jan 07 23:25:14 imo, that's the most needed feature Jan 07 23:25:21 but probably will be relegated to a nodejs service Jan 07 23:25:33 I think if Mojo is going away then yeah, then there's probably going to be a huge push to get devs to rewrite using it Jan 07 23:25:35 yeah, node.js would be perfect for it Jan 07 23:25:41 since the js is single threaded, background-installing would stall out the gui Jan 07 23:25:50 but with node, we get another thread for that stuff Jan 07 23:26:19 however Jan 07 23:26:20 * Tibfib votes for catalog style downloading Jan 07 23:26:37 the code is cleaner not having to handle concurrent changes to the data Jan 07 23:27:06 you install, and when you backswipe back to the list, it already knows its installed Jan 07 23:27:11 instead of having to update that later when its installed Jan 07 23:27:23 that's true Jan 07 23:27:26 but it's worth it Jan 07 23:27:33 or that we support deps Jan 07 23:27:41 where installing one package actually installs 4 Jan 07 23:27:56 how do you reload installed apps? Jan 07 23:28:02 do you rebuild the list? Jan 07 23:28:03 which is a whole other boat of problems Jan 07 23:28:09 its all in memory Jan 07 23:28:12 currently Jan 07 23:28:20 preware has no database Jan 07 23:28:27 beyond flat text feed files Jan 07 23:28:31 which it reads in at start Jan 07 23:28:43 I meant the list with the installed icon Jan 07 23:28:48 bbiab, picking up a pizza Jan 07 23:28:56 its just an isInstalled flag in that package object Jan 07 23:29:05 which determines which icon to display on generate Jan 07 23:29:17 do you reload the list? Jan 07 23:29:27 yeah Jan 07 23:29:46 if you save the item index on push you could reload the specific item Jan 07 23:30:13 then on scene pop, pass the index back to have hte list reload it Jan 07 23:30:13 well, if people choose " Jan 07 23:30:19 the installed as available option Jan 07 23:30:33 but its not always one thing, sometimes multiple packages are installed from one action Jan 07 23:30:47 meh, I'm dreading learning a new framework :( Jan 07 23:31:01 cheer up dohtem it wont be bad Jan 07 23:31:13 oilsworkn: I think it'd be easy if the data is stored Jan 07 23:31:19 if/when Jan 07 23:31:30 lemme thinkk Jan 07 23:31:37 lol Jan 07 23:32:05 I guess if dependencies, reload entire list Jan 07 23:32:16 which is just what it does now Jan 07 23:32:24 on back swipe the list always reloads Jan 07 23:32:31 {index: 5, dependencies: true} Jan 07 23:32:45 the dependency tree is so dirty, lol Jan 07 23:33:08 you'll have fun trying to figure out what goes on in the packages.js/package.js files Jan 07 23:33:10 this.list.mojo.invalidateItems(arg.index, 1); Jan 07 23:33:14 :) Jan 07 23:33:56 oilsworkn: where are they? Jan 07 23:34:04 the app/models folders Jan 07 23:34:34 shmeh, you can handle that stuff :) Jan 07 23:35:40 so why was the ipkg format chosen for app info? Jan 07 23:35:42 they're both just under 2k lines xD Jan 07 23:35:46 feed* Jan 07 23:36:03 because palm was using it Jan 07 23:36:18 things have changed a LOT since then Jan 07 23:36:20 did you copy their parser? Jan 07 23:36:26 * Tibfib likes json :) Jan 07 23:36:27 no, i wrote that parser Jan 07 23:36:40 well, it was being done in the service Jan 07 23:36:44 which was passing json back Jan 07 23:36:55 but for some reason it was incredibly slow, so we switched to parsing the text files in js Jan 07 23:37:02 which was way faster for no reason at all Jan 07 23:37:06 heh Jan 07 23:37:19 but with 2.0 Jan 07 23:37:28 when we move to couch/db8 type databases inside preware Jan 07 23:37:35 we'll be supporting both the new and the old formats Jan 07 23:37:43 good! Jan 07 23:37:46 new for the ipkg.preware.org feeds Jan 07 23:37:55 but old to keep compatibility with devs custom feeds Jan 07 23:38:03 and what not Jan 07 23:39:20 has palm talked about the couch syncing stuff? Haven't heard much since dev days Jan 07 23:39:44 well, the server side is what we've yet to work out Jan 07 23:39:56 halfhalo was attempting something, but idk where that is Jan 07 23:40:08 Is there a one line "this scene has been popped. destroy all widgets"? Jan 07 23:40:17 basically we need to support revisions Jan 07 23:40:33 so when packages are added/edited/deleted on the server, we only send down the changes preware needs to make to its db Jan 07 23:40:39 dohtem: unfortunately not Jan 07 23:40:41 though, im shuddering at the thought of a local db xD Jan 07 23:40:50 Tibfib: bummer Jan 07 23:41:08 enyo is supposed to improve that @ dohtem Jan 07 23:41:43 anyone reading about ces and see anything col Jan 07 23:41:48 cool*? Jan 07 23:42:18 * oilsworkn sums up ces for everyone Jan 07 23:42:23 android Jan 07 23:42:25 tablets Jan 07 23:42:28 3d Jan 07 23:42:29 4g Jan 07 23:42:34 I'm trying to figure out what to check out. I've been to most of the main areas, but I don't have the backstage pass like halfhalo Jan 07 23:42:47 lol Jan 07 23:42:51 yup Jan 07 23:43:04 3d is lame as usual Jan 07 23:43:17 i heard there was some glasses-free stuff going down Jan 07 23:43:25 which is much less lame then glasses-needed 3d Jan 07 23:43:33 yeah, not very good Jan 07 23:43:35 though the viewing angles are garbage on all of them Jan 07 23:43:47 intel had some stuff, but it's sketchy at best Jan 07 23:44:04 you have to be at the right angle and not move Jan 07 23:44:12 yeah Jan 07 23:44:28 move 1" and you're f'ed Jan 07 23:45:12 is better then "put on these expensive and dorky glasses" Jan 07 23:45:16 lol Jan 07 23:45:24 3d tv is pretty much going to suck for a long time, until they get really nice holography Jan 07 23:46:04 * oilsworkn waits for holodeck Jan 07 23:46:20 yeah, that will be nice Jan 07 23:46:35 the active glasses are just stupid Jan 07 23:47:00 passive is not as bad Jan 07 23:47:19 ARen't there a few sets with passive glasses? Jan 07 23:47:40 I've been looking at the active ones, and I can see the flicker. it's so annoying Jan 07 23:47:52 yeah, a few, but they haven't looked very good Jan 07 23:47:56 basically there's no good tech at the moment IMO, even the stuff in theatres with polarized lenses and special projectors is hard to watch for long and has a tendency to pull you out of the action at times IMO Jan 07 23:48:01 what now? Jan 07 23:48:20 basically HattCzech_pre hates you for being backstagey Jan 07 23:48:52 haha Jan 07 23:49:04 avatar is still the only movie I've seen that looks good Jan 07 23:49:07 Civ 5 seems kind of... Eh. Jan 07 23:49:23 lol Jan 07 23:49:23 oilsworkn: true Jan 07 23:49:30 Coraline in 3D was good. We saw it with... I don't remember what it was. Thick glass lenses on the glasses. Jan 07 23:49:43 Not the like cheap thin film polarized ones. Jan 07 23:50:02 active shudder boo Jan 07 23:50:06 Whatever those were looked good. You could rotate your head side to side and not lose 3D. Jan 07 23:50:06 hmmm, odd Jan 07 23:50:12 I don't think they were active. Jan 07 23:50:19 sweet Jan 07 23:50:43 so have HattCzech_pre and halfhalo had awkward internet dude meetup yet? Jan 07 23:51:15 lol not yet Jan 07 23:51:46 halfhalo is too busy for us regular folk Jan 07 23:51:54 That's what it was! Jan 07 23:51:57 Dolby 3D Jan 07 23:52:16 It's a passive technology using a kind of advanced take on the old blue and red 3D lenses Jan 07 23:52:36 lol Jan 07 23:53:04 just walk backstage where halfhalo is, and if anyone stops you be like "its ok, im from the internet!" Jan 07 23:53:21 http://www.zdnet.com/photos/photos-the-technology-behind-3d-movies/168811?seq=6 Jan 07 23:53:45 oilsworkn: heh, its CES. Everyone's from the internet Jan 07 23:53:53 its worth a shot! Jan 07 23:54:20 Coraline with the Dolby 3D was probably the best 3D movie I've seen Jan 07 23:54:46 probably? Jan 07 23:55:07 I've not seen movies using all of the 3D systems out there yet Jan 07 23:55:14 so as it stands, it was the best P: Jan 07 23:55:45 * oilsworkn has seen "Real3D Jan 07 23:55:47 " Jan 07 23:55:53 both times i went to the theatre Jan 07 23:56:07 for avatar, then tron Jan 07 23:56:39 SineOt: it looks like dolby3d is a modern version of the red / green only more subtle Jan 07 23:56:42 I've seen stuff in Real3D, Dolby 3D, and Imax 3D (which when we saw it for Avatar, was just linear polarization and kind of sucked) Jan 07 23:56:50 since it's frequency based Jan 07 23:56:58 real3d is polarization Jan 07 23:57:02 yeah it's like you didn't get any fuzziness on it near the corners of the screen and it was way easy on the eyes Jan 07 23:57:53 they both seemed ok to me Jan 07 23:58:01 but i wear glasses to see Jan 07 23:58:04 so i was glasses on glasses Jan 07 23:58:09 always gets weird reflecting Jan 07 23:58:42 Yeah I do too Jan 07 23:58:56 and that was another thing that was nice with the Dolby 3D was that they fit fine over glasses and didn't cause problems Jan 07 23:59:03 oilsworkn: get 3D prescriptions! Jan 07 23:59:11 lol Jan 07 23:59:12 they also make laser pointers disappear but only in the right eye XD Jan 07 23:59:29 now that guy with the webos developer map changed the link Jan 07 23:59:37 to link to his facebook page to get the link Jan 07 23:59:45 * oilsworkn wants to remove his marker now Jan 07 23:59:47 lol Jan 08 00:00:06 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/272383-webos-developer-map.html Jan 08 00:00:11 lol Jan 08 00:00:39 that's really scummy Jan 08 00:00:53 lame o Jan 08 00:01:00 yeah, scummy to the max Jan 08 00:01:08 is now there Jan 08 00:01:53 oilsworkn: copy the link and post it back :) Jan 08 00:03:12 * oilsworkn doesn't care that much Jan 08 00:03:27 he is obviously trying to get some facebook friends Jan 08 00:04:11 there is nobody even a state away from me Jan 08 00:04:15 there is a whole state wide bubble Jan 08 00:04:16 lol Jan 08 00:04:24 I'm closest to well, him lol Jan 08 00:04:58 you should like his facebook page! Jan 08 00:05:04 he just started it today right? Jan 08 00:05:12 maybe? Jan 08 00:05:30 It's been up for a while, I saw it a few days ago Jan 08 00:05:59 * oilsworkn is out of here Jan 08 00:07:00 I'm sure it's unintentional, but his location on the map is... Right by 1 Best Bail Bond lol Jan 08 00:07:11 lol Jan 08 00:17:10 anyone use cherokee ? Jan 08 00:19:05 who pinged me this time.... Jan 08 00:42:43 whoa... on this day last year, I signed up for the developer program :) Jan 08 00:45:06 dohtem: congrats! Jan 08 00:46:08 only took a year to submit an app to the catalog :) Jan 08 00:54:45 palm is off vacay! Jan 08 00:57:07 is rwhitby or PuffTheMagic around? Jan 08 00:58:14 or anyone else that knows what the different usb options are for freetether? Jan 08 01:24:22 I think I irritated my hotel and they cut off my internet :) Jan 08 01:34:18 it definitely appears that way... lame :/ Jan 08 01:36:15 lol Jan 08 01:38:00 good interview if you haven't seen it http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/07/exclusive-interview-googles-matias-duarte-talks-honeycomb-tab/ Jan 08 01:40:35 "limited or no connectivity" Jan 08 01:41:03 why don't you just tether with your pre, HattCzech_pre Jan 08 01:41:10 but it happened on my phone, too, so that's a bit odd Jan 08 01:41:22 but... you're on IRC... Jan 08 01:41:27 heheh, that's exactly what I was playing with Jan 08 01:41:32 evdo Jan 08 01:42:28 lol Jan 08 01:43:57 Tibfib: I thought the Honeycomb gmail app like like the dev day Enyo demo. Jan 08 01:44:03 so what cool stuff did you pick up today, halfhalo? Jan 08 01:44:05 looked like* Jan 08 01:44:21 dohtem_: haven't seen the demo yet, gonna watch it next Jan 08 01:44:43 to much to type on phoneone the shuttle Jan 08 01:45:04 what did shuttle have? Jan 08 01:45:29 I checked them out, but didn't see anything new Jan 08 01:45:48 lotsa stuff, but was talking bout ces shuttle Jan 08 01:46:40 dohtem_: I noticed that similarity, but they didn't show it collapsing smoothly either Jan 08 01:46:45 ahhh, gotcha Jan 08 01:47:09 I got on the Bing! bus earlier Jan 08 01:47:23 when I say it like that it sounds hilarious Jan 08 01:47:28 is that like the short bus? Jan 08 01:47:33 j/k Jan 08 01:47:56 it was short, but it was a luxury bus Jan 08 01:48:11 like a party bus? Jan 08 01:48:36 yeah, I think so Jan 08 01:49:10 had a TV on it (like 40-50") Jan 08 01:53:48 Am I the only one that dislikes banner notifications? I don't mind them for apps alerting me to something, but I hate them for sms Jan 08 01:54:01 like an error notification Jan 08 01:55:29 * oil usually dislikes things taking that space at the bottom Jan 08 01:55:33 be it banner or notification Jan 08 01:56:12 lies Jan 08 01:56:15 I think a dashboard creating itself with a sou Jan 08 01:56:16 I'm quite fond of the sms ones, especially when i don't need to reply Jan 08 01:56:17 which reminds me to remove that save/restore banner from preware Jan 08 01:56:25 lol Jan 08 01:56:28 with a sound is perfect Jan 08 01:56:36 * oil didn't add it Jan 08 01:56:55 banners always popup when I'm doing stuff in dashboards,, pain in butt Jan 08 01:57:06 palm at least needs to let a backswipe clear it. Jan 08 01:57:24 the only thing i like dashboards for is to tell me what i've missed since i last looked at my phone Jan 08 01:57:51 102389 new tweets! Jan 08 01:57:59 anyone here know the differences between the usb freetether options? Jan 08 01:58:01 LOL Jan 08 01:58:16 HattCzech_pre: PuffTheMagic and egaudet do Jan 08 01:58:44 since when? Jan 08 01:59:06 that's a lot of tweets Jan 08 01:59:28 hes talking about useless banners Jan 08 01:59:34 woooo Jan 08 01:59:37 dinner time Jan 08 01:59:38 * oil needs to talk to funkatron about those banners Jan 08 01:59:41 :) Jan 08 01:59:47 lol Jan 08 01:59:58 egaudet, you around? Jan 08 02:00:24 the only banner im leaving in preware is the "preware is done loading stuffs" Jan 08 02:00:32 that you get if you navigate away from preware whilst it loads Jan 08 02:00:39 lol Jan 08 02:00:47 because i find that one useful Jan 08 02:00:57 true Jan 08 02:00:58 oil: it is useful Jan 08 02:00:58 lies Jan 08 02:01:27 because you open it and go do something else instead of watching the spinner for a minute Jan 08 02:01:39 I'm just saying, I would prefer for just a dashboard to be created with a sound/vibration for sms. Sms banners are annoying Jan 08 02:01:49 * Tibfib writes patch Jan 08 02:01:59 can you attach a sound to a banner launch? Jan 08 02:02:03 or you have to do it manually Jan 08 02:02:09 i only ever saw the option for a banner Jan 08 02:02:16 what do you mean? Jan 08 02:02:19 a dashboard launch? Jan 08 02:02:20 and banners usually signal a new dash Jan 08 02:02:28 i mean, opening that stage Jan 08 02:02:35 there's a func, playSoundNotification or something Jan 08 02:02:41 ah Jan 08 02:02:42 playAlertSound...idr Jan 08 02:03:00 * oil isn't big on sound either Jan 08 02:03:01 lol Jan 08 02:03:14 Mojo.Controller.getAppController().playSoundNotification("alerts", ""); Jan 08 02:03:18 though i've still got to add sound to lumberjack Jan 08 02:03:30 as an easter egg, play the "im a lumberjack" song Jan 08 02:03:31 oil: did you add the email log ? Jan 08 02:03:42 it has email option already, no? Jan 08 02:03:54 * Tibfib checks Jan 08 02:03:55 maybe its just copy/paste Jan 08 02:04:07 yeah, just copy/paste Jan 08 02:04:17 I want an app menu function to create an email with all the logs Jan 08 02:04:25 well i meant to add email and pastebin options Jan 08 02:09:26 the road to heck is paved with good intentions Jan 08 02:10:34 haeffb_! long time no hear Jan 08 02:10:47 hear/see/chat/annoy Jan 08 02:10:58 me annoying you of course :) Jan 08 02:11:48 Tibfib: \o/ !!!!!!! Jan 08 02:12:12 * haeffb_ has been away from webos stuff for a while Jan 08 02:12:31 haven't we all Jan 08 02:12:34 there, used internalz to remove sms banners Jan 08 02:12:47 haeffb_: por que? waiting for enyo or haven't been able to? Jan 08 02:12:48 I need more motivation, like a new 4g phone Jan 08 02:13:10 I haven't felt like working on Koto.. I want to sell it. that'd make me want to work on it more Jan 08 02:14:13 not enough free time lately. and enyo has destroyed any motivation I might have had Jan 08 02:14:16 pie Jan 08 02:14:21 pie?!?!?!?!? Jan 08 02:14:31 haeffb_: blasphemy! Jan 08 02:14:42 and a new phone would help Jan 08 02:14:49 yeah Jan 08 02:14:52 it would help a lot Jan 08 02:14:56 they really shouldn't have announced enyo until "shipping today" Jan 08 02:14:58 :) Jan 08 02:15:03 palm jumped the gun with announcing enyo imo. Jan 08 02:15:26 I guess it hasn't been that long since announcement, but still, lots of devs stopped working Jan 08 02:15:43 oh look, here's enyo... *slaps hands* no, don't touch that Jan 08 02:16:12 considering the speed palm has been with 2.0, I don't think anyone will be able to submit enyo apps until fall Jan 08 02:17:14 oil, i hate notifcations/banners too Jan 08 02:17:15 but if they didnt announce anything, we'd be way more agitated Jan 08 02:17:25 PuffTheMagic: Yes! Jan 08 02:17:39 wait, dashboards, or just banners? Jan 08 02:17:44 Puff! Jan 08 02:17:46 them all Jan 08 02:18:02 can you describe the usb options for freetether to me? Jan 08 02:18:18 UMS = usb mass storage Jan 08 02:18:21 novacom = dev mode Jan 08 02:18:32 usbnet = rndis Jan 08 02:18:38 that should do it Jan 08 02:18:42 passthru? Jan 08 02:19:01 acm + serial Jan 08 02:20:00 so basically I want the default Jan 08 02:20:14 default is UMS Jan 08 02:20:42 usbnet, ums, and novacom Jan 08 02:21:14 does ums mean I can use it without putting it in usb drive mode? Jan 08 02:21:27 or do I still need to winscp it? Jan 08 02:21:50 usb drive mode and winscp are mutually exclusive Jan 08 02:22:23 if u want usb drive mode, u need to put it into that Jan 08 02:22:27 if u want to use scp Jan 08 02:22:32 well, I was just wondering if I could use it as a usb drive w/o disabling phone functionality? Jan 08 02:22:33 u need a tcp/ip interface Jan 08 02:22:36 wifi/bt or usb Jan 08 02:22:42 no u cant Jan 08 02:22:50 not in webos Jan 08 02:22:56 not how palm has shit set up Jan 08 02:22:58 urg, they need to fix that Jan 08 02:23:05 its not a bug Jan 08 02:23:09 yeah, that's why I use winscp Jan 08 02:23:22 I know, but still needs to be fixed :) Jan 08 02:23:23 the apps are installed on the same partition as the usb driver Jan 08 02:23:33 ahhhh Jan 08 02:23:35 if u are in usb mass storage mode u cant use your apps Jan 08 02:23:44 so they just disable webos entirely Jan 08 02:24:00 it would be nice if they left phone functions available Jan 08 02:24:08 since they dont need that partition Jan 08 02:24:11 yeah, that would be Jan 08 02:24:58 I just hate it when I use usb and then unplug it and see I have a missed call Jan 08 02:25:04 or voicemail Jan 08 02:28:17 go wifis Jan 08 02:32:19 oil: gooooo wifi! Jan 08 02:40:41 I want my wi-fis back! Jan 08 02:41:31 they're stuck in the tubes! Jan 08 02:42:15 or the 4 gees Jan 08 02:45:25 my evdo is red and my battery is staying at 5% Jan 08 02:45:25 how annoying Jan 08 02:49:16 cue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:I_Got_it_Yesterday_-_Senator_Ted_Stevens.ogg Jan 08 02:49:52 we need to find a replacement for him now Jan 08 02:53:59 for who? Jan 08 02:55:22 ted stevens **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 08 02:59:57 2011