**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 10 02:59:57 2011 Feb 10 02:59:57 EvaDragus: I hope not Feb 10 03:00:01 haha Feb 10 03:00:06 hp made that announcement and in the following months is just watching what the competitors are responding with Feb 10 03:00:09 and then BLAMMO Feb 10 03:00:11 fake out Feb 10 03:00:13 well we got 6 months to think about it :) Feb 10 03:00:27 * Tibfib bets they are waiting for competitor pricing to announce theirs Feb 10 03:01:29 Justified is on. Feb 10 03:01:33 interesting hypotheses Feb 10 03:01:46 whos at the event? Feb 10 03:01:47 i'm here! Feb 10 03:01:55 * Tibfib heard that one on twitter Feb 10 03:02:05 * oil is at the event in spirit Feb 10 03:02:05 it's startinggg Feb 10 03:02:11 * Tibfib is as well Feb 10 03:02:19 aww Feb 10 03:02:24 my rage is on a collision course with the event at this very moment Feb 10 03:02:30 ok bye Feb 10 03:03:11 enyo today??? Feb 10 03:03:15 Keith Feb 10 03:03:15 hmm Feb 10 03:03:18 we'll see Feb 10 03:03:28 keith: are you the keith? Feb 10 03:03:37 or get started being excited?!?! Feb 10 03:03:43 are you starting to get excited?!?! Feb 10 03:03:59 haeffb: really?!?!? sweet! Feb 10 03:04:51 whoa Feb 10 03:05:03 jasona zajac Feb 10 03:05:05 chuq no longer head of dev relations ? Feb 10 03:05:06 jason* Feb 10 03:05:12 he never was Feb 10 03:05:24 oh i didn't realize Feb 10 03:05:27 ben and dion were Feb 10 03:05:44 * Tibfib thinks Feb 10 03:06:08 yep Feb 10 03:06:15 yeah, what is chuq's official title? Feb 10 03:06:32 Awesomeness Feb 10 03:06:37 could be Feb 10 03:07:08 matt is presenting tonight, right? Feb 10 03:07:31 yep Feb 10 03:07:38 nice Feb 10 03:07:46 Richard Kerris, VP of Worldwide Developer Relations on now Feb 10 03:08:08 Rougher? oh god. Feb 10 03:08:13 "During his tenure at Apple, Mr. Kerris was the senior director of Developer Technologies for Appleis Worldwide Developer Relations group, managed special projects for the applications division, and managed technical marketing strategies for Final Cut Pro, Shake, DVD Studio Pro, Logic, Motion and iLife." Feb 10 03:08:16 Tibfib: I think chuq's official title is 'whipping boy and punching bag' Feb 10 03:08:24 haha possibly Feb 10 03:08:28 funkatron: yeah, "rougher?" Feb 10 03:08:41 Matt on stage now Feb 10 03:08:44 what stream is everyone watching? Feb 10 03:08:52 http://www.precentral.net/hp-thinkbeyond-developer-event-liveblog Feb 10 03:08:56 PreCentral and WebOSRoundup liveblogs Feb 10 03:09:00 yeah, that's what I'm watching Feb 10 03:09:03 prece Feb 10 03:09:45 En yo Pre, making appz legit Feb 10 03:09:49 precentral is for nerds Feb 10 03:10:22 just FYI, it's Enyo. not ENYO Feb 10 03:10:27 Any word anywhere on the degree to which they're screwing over all us pre users? Feb 10 03:10:30 * dgathright just made a enyo joke, so fully embraces his inner nerd Feb 10 03:10:49 Ctbeiser: depends on what your preconceptions are Feb 10 03:11:06 cause nothing we say will change them Feb 10 03:11:19 "_pre_conceptions" zing! Feb 10 03:11:31 dgathright: ;) Feb 10 03:11:41 there. got three windows balanced on my mid sized laptop screen Feb 10 03:11:47 the reason old devices aren't getting webos 2 is they're going straight to v3 Feb 10 03:11:50 so, no worries Feb 10 03:11:58 oil++ Feb 10 03:12:00 haha Feb 10 03:12:02 lol Feb 10 03:12:17 oil: OTA update when you put them on Touchstone 2 Feb 10 03:12:25 *snicker* Feb 10 03:13:11 precentrals autoscroll thing breaks whenever they put in a picture Feb 10 03:13:20 yeahh Feb 10 03:13:23 yeah, and it not tall enough Feb 10 03:13:24 I'd be extra pissed if I had to decide between nova brandywine and stable 1.4.5, because once you've used one, you can't really use the other without feeling you're missing something... Feb 10 03:13:48 whats this nova brandywine? Feb 10 03:13:50 Ctbeiser: I prefer Dartfish myself Feb 10 03:13:52 what would you be missing from 1.4.5? Feb 10 03:13:52 sounds secret Feb 10 03:14:19 ugh Feb 10 03:14:25 i forgot to do mytimecard Feb 10 03:14:26 lol Feb 10 03:14:43 to bad mobileme and webos don't sync there calendars Feb 10 03:14:43 oil: can you hack the PreCentral page to have a taller box and then host it for us to use? Feb 10 03:14:56 probably, but im far too lazy Feb 10 03:15:08 oil! come on bro Feb 10 03:15:21 yeah, I knew he couldn't Feb 10 03:15:33 Nova Brandywine is the Developer Early Access Program build of 2.x, but I'm not sure to what degree I can really talk about it... Feb 10 03:15:34 lol Feb 10 03:15:46 Ctbeiser: orly? Feb 10 03:16:04 oh excellent Feb 10 03:16:07 you have to unlearn Mojo Feb 10 03:16:09 hmm, there's an early access 2.x version? Feb 10 03:16:09 I have to unlearn mojo Feb 10 03:16:10 First rule of EA: no talking about EA Feb 10 03:16:13 oil: good thing I never learnt Mojo, cause now I have to unlearn i Feb 10 03:16:14 so some of us are ahead of the curve! Feb 10 03:16:15 rwhitby: http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=ef2e86b5d1/height=1000/width=1000 Feb 10 03:16:40 dgathright: hero! Feb 10 03:16:41 sounds a lot more like instantiation in VHDL .. i can dig that Feb 10 03:16:46 the live blog is confusing me Feb 10 03:16:57 it SHOULD Feb 10 03:17:03 That there is an EA program is no secret, because you can apply, and what I've said is basically public knowledge, but I'll leave it at that. Google is your friend, I guess. Feb 10 03:17:13 Ctbeiser: thanks for the tips. Feb 10 03:17:29 oil: have you heard about this early access thing? sounds interesting Feb 10 03:17:29 dgathright: win! thanks man Feb 10 03:17:40 firebug ftw Feb 10 03:17:43 rwhitby: brandywine sounds like a tasty drink Feb 10 03:18:04 lol. mojo is getting destroyed Feb 10 03:18:11 all true Feb 10 03:18:17 I want to be a lego block Feb 10 03:18:23 everything hes showed sofar was known at nyc devdays :/ Feb 10 03:18:38 * haeffb plans to reuse all of oil's lego blocks Feb 10 03:18:42 oil: Enyo is all about reuse, see. Feb 10 03:18:44 * halfhalo does as well Feb 10 03:18:47 haha Feb 10 03:18:55 * Tibfib loves legos Feb 10 03:18:56 * oil will build hte legos Feb 10 03:19:01 they haven't shown us how yet though Feb 10 03:19:05 only how to use the components Feb 10 03:19:14 * dgathright current project at work is called "LEGO" as well. Same modular concept. Sounds very familiar. Feb 10 03:19:15 dgathright: have I told you recently how much better at hacking web pages you are than oil? Feb 10 03:19:18 the codes' right up on the screen behind matts Feb 10 03:19:21 they mail you a green matt you have to use with a laptop Feb 10 03:19:28 rwhitby: lol Feb 10 03:19:41 this thing is auto-scrolling smooth as butter now Feb 10 03:19:44 dgathright: yeah, you're much better than oil Feb 10 03:19:53 oops, that was supposed to be a pm. Feb 10 03:20:01 hahaha Feb 10 03:20:02 Oil: En yo face! Feb 10 03:20:05 * oil hands in his keys to the webos internals repo Feb 10 03:20:07 dgathright: cause oil has it over you on Javascript. Feb 10 03:20:11 have fun redoing all those apps in enyo Feb 10 03:20:15 lol Feb 10 03:20:15 * oil goes and has a beer Feb 10 03:20:17 s/cause/course/ Feb 10 03:20:23 * haeffb joins oil Feb 10 03:20:45 oil: we don't need to know Javascript or Mojo any more, we have Enyo. Feb 10 03:20:45 oil: wait, you are quiting canuck coding?? Feb 10 03:20:51 yeah Feb 10 03:20:57 cause they took java out of webos Feb 10 03:21:05 ^ thank god Feb 10 03:21:07 looks like Internalz for 2.0 will never make it out now that oil has quit Feb 10 03:21:11 lol Feb 10 03:21:12 we still need to know javascript Feb 10 03:21:21 just not mojo Feb 10 03:21:22 Mojo reeked of Java Feb 10 03:21:25 thank ghod Feb 10 03:21:38 * Tibfib knows mojo better than he knows javascript :( Feb 10 03:21:39 webosroundup liveblog is slower Feb 10 03:21:48 guys, a little respect? I love Mojo :( Feb 10 03:21:50 it did. Because it was written by a team of java-heads, because they couldn't hire enough javascr4ipt people fast enough Feb 10 03:21:51 dieter rocks the liveblog Feb 10 03:22:01 * oil is with eva Feb 10 03:22:06 Mojo === suck Feb 10 03:22:09 * Tibfib is too Feb 10 03:22:11 we need to have a little ceremony Feb 10 03:22:16 and bury it Feb 10 03:22:22 +1 Feb 10 03:22:26 eva will get up and say something nice Feb 10 03:22:28 it was never hard to customize a button - you just had to ask oil to do it Feb 10 03:22:28 next dev day? (if it's in austin) Feb 10 03:22:37 lol Feb 10 03:22:38 and drink shots of Irish whiskey over it's grave Feb 10 03:22:43 and pore some in Feb 10 03:22:51 the next dd needs to be after nov 4 Feb 10 03:22:57 hehe Feb 10 03:22:58 and cremate it Feb 10 03:23:04 sounds like a plan Feb 10 03:23:05 I'm really pumped for Mojo. <3 JavaScript, so finally getting a framework for webOS that really feels like JS. Feb 10 03:23:14 enyooooo?????? Feb 10 03:23:22 So wait, this is higher level than Mojo? When is this going to reach Hypercard level of accessibility? Feb 10 03:23:24 wait, errr... Enyo Feb 10 03:23:27 not mojo Feb 10 03:23:33 haha Feb 10 03:23:34 Ctbeiser: it already is with ares Feb 10 03:23:36 hands are feeling a tad heavy Feb 10 03:23:38 * dgathright fail Feb 10 03:24:00 it may be shocking, but i was hella good at hypercard in like 6th grade Feb 10 03:24:04 LOL Feb 10 03:24:08 ... Feb 10 03:24:11 * Tibfib googles hypercard Feb 10 03:24:13 haha, hypercard ftw Feb 10 03:24:28 flexboxes Feb 10 03:24:29 oil: old person Feb 10 03:24:34 note that Matt says that it reneders "blazing fast on the web." Enyo on desktop.... Feb 10 03:24:35 not that old Feb 10 03:24:39 rick and rwhitby are here Feb 10 03:24:42 * oil is sprint chicken Feb 10 03:24:44 spring* Feb 10 03:24:47 lol Feb 10 03:24:48 yeah, rick is old Feb 10 03:24:49 Oil: I've tried it, and I've tried Hypercard, and Hypercard was definately a bit easier. Feb 10 03:24:51 haha Feb 10 03:25:17 ems instead of pixels? Feb 10 03:25:18 :( Feb 10 03:25:19 what's an 'em' ? Feb 10 03:25:22 * oil is so used to pixels Feb 10 03:25:26 * rick-work is older than ka6sox, and I think the oldest one on the team. Feb 10 03:25:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Em_(typography) Feb 10 03:25:33 * Tibfib likes pixels Feb 10 03:25:40 em is a unit of measurement Feb 10 03:25:56 that changes based on resolution/device Feb 10 03:26:07 em is the width of a lower case "m" Feb 10 03:26:18 really> Feb 10 03:26:19 ? Feb 10 03:26:26 something like that Feb 10 03:26:28 ah, those 'em's Feb 10 03:26:30 that's interesting Feb 10 03:26:33 i made hypercard stacks Feb 10 03:26:38 no more global event listeners. Feb 10 03:26:43 No more memory leaks Feb 10 03:26:44 i remember hypercard viruses Feb 10 03:26:49 * Tibfib wonders if kesne is older than him Feb 10 03:26:49 * oil remembers rick claping at that Feb 10 03:26:50 yeah, I have to learn about ems now Feb 10 03:26:53 Is it just me, or is it the case that webOS seems to be getting more and more and more efficient all the time? Feb 10 03:26:57 when this was all said in november Feb 10 03:27:10 heh yeah. I think everyone did Feb 10 03:27:42 ctbeiser: webOS 2.0 should have actually been 1.0. Feb 10 03:27:44 HTML people have been trying to get you to use ems instead of pixels for YEARS Feb 10 03:27:47 Tibfib: kesne is younger than everyone Feb 10 03:27:49 I dont think many people get how big enyo is Feb 10 03:27:54 can we ask for the spaz ipk ? i just downloaded a free app from app catalog and it downloaded perfect .. spaz keeps being stuck for some reason Feb 10 03:28:01 outside of here Feb 10 03:28:03 no, isn't connor younger? Feb 10 03:28:06 you can ask. Feb 10 03:28:07 hey where/what are the announcements that HP promised to developers this evening? Feb 10 03:28:11 kesne isn't that cool anymore Feb 10 03:28:11 xD Feb 10 03:28:12 rwhitby: you do remember I'm 16 right? Feb 10 03:28:16 conner is younger than kesne Feb 10 03:28:21 Tibfib: yeah Feb 10 03:28:29 yeah,, but I don't remember if kesne is older/younger than me Feb 10 03:28:33 Tibfib: but he's far less mature :) Feb 10 03:28:37 kesne is 16 now Feb 10 03:28:40 haha :) Feb 10 03:28:45 ah, I'll be 17 in april Feb 10 03:28:45 @dgathright: That's the case for Android and iOS too, but they got to 2.0 faster. Feb 10 03:28:54 contradude: I (and I'm sure others) told Matt at the last dev event that they need to be open-friendly with Enyo. If they do, it will dominate cross-device mobile development. Feb 10 03:29:29 I hope they do Feb 10 03:29:29 "xcross-device" Feb 10 03:29:30 +1 Feb 10 03:29:38 how can hardware acceleration be built into Enyo Feb 10 03:29:40 Enyo is all JS, so it doesn't need to be open-source, HP just needs to not sue anyone for forking it. Feb 10 03:29:46 haha Feb 10 03:29:52 "Enyo finally delivers on the original promise of webOS" Is it just me, or was the original promise of webOS on the Pre-? Feb 10 03:29:54 surely Enyo just uses stuff that the OS hardware accelerates Feb 10 03:29:55 so that's what I mean by "open-friendly" Feb 10 03:30:26 rwhitby: I would think so Feb 10 03:30:26 * rwhitby guess email app demo Feb 10 03:30:35 * oil liked the stack metaphor Feb 10 03:30:43 am i the only one sad to see it go? Feb 10 03:30:46 * halfhalo likes stacks in general Feb 10 03:30:52 * Tibfib enjoyed stacks too Feb 10 03:30:56 oil: no Feb 10 03:31:07 mojo was my first framework Feb 10 03:31:14 * rwhitby likes pancake stacks Feb 10 03:31:21 first thing I've ever coded on Feb 10 03:31:23 it popped your cherry? Feb 10 03:31:27 * dgathright likes bacon stacks Feb 10 03:31:34 stacks going away? Feb 10 03:31:37 * oil likes stacks of money Feb 10 03:31:43 noo! Feb 10 03:31:46 Enyo is really really great news Feb 10 03:31:48 http://cl.ly/1X071h3c3D3Q2E3j0x0N Feb 10 03:32:00 broken Feb 10 03:32:00 I'm excited.. just sad to see enyo go Feb 10 03:32:04 oil: you can still implement stacks though I suspect.. it just isn't locked in Feb 10 03:32:10 *mojo Feb 10 03:32:18 * Tibfib wants to see ss of MUSIC app Feb 10 03:32:19 so I can run enyo in Chrome on my laptop... Feb 10 03:32:26 In the future webos apps could run all over the place Feb 10 03:32:29 haeffb: its webos on pc! Feb 10 03:32:43 oh cool .. surrogate development it seems Feb 10 03:32:46 that is pretty slick Feb 10 03:32:48 oil: thats not what we mean :-P Feb 10 03:33:16 oooooo inspect elements directly Feb 10 03:33:18 ooooooo Feb 10 03:33:20 "so you can test with live data from your device " holy shit Feb 10 03:33:21 nice Feb 10 03:33:23 not "stacks" like, webos2 stacks of cards Feb 10 03:33:32 stacks like scenes Feb 10 03:33:38 right Feb 10 03:33:38 stacks, like how scenes are pushed onto the stack in mojo apps Feb 10 03:33:42 push/pop kinds Feb 10 03:33:46 rick-work: I figured the app wasn't really proof of concept back then Feb 10 03:33:48 dgathright: sweeeeeet Feb 10 03:33:49 * oil was clarifying for contradude Feb 10 03:34:21 oil: okay, that makes a lot more sense Feb 10 03:34:23 * Tibfib hopes ares works beautifully on touchpad Feb 10 03:34:25 yeah, I figured that too... but Matt could NOT say. but when you sat and chatted with him, he was smirking. Feb 10 03:34:31 Tibfib uses ares? Feb 10 03:34:35 no Feb 10 03:34:40 oh Feb 10 03:34:42 * rick-work uses ares. Feb 10 03:34:42 ok Feb 10 03:34:44 but I mightt.. with enyo Feb 10 03:34:49 * rick-work LIKES ares. Feb 10 03:34:51 rick-work: as if anyone does proof of concept stuff any more Feb 10 03:34:53 going to have to now, huh? Feb 10 03:34:57 ares has too may problems with actual coding to be that useful Feb 10 03:34:58 like Feb 10 03:35:00 COPY PASTE Feb 10 03:35:00 * rick-work might actually finish the ares book now Feb 10 03:35:08 go rick-work! Feb 10 03:35:17 * halfhalo wants tab Feb 10 03:35:17 there's no problem with copy-paste in ares. Feb 10 03:35:17 rick-work: thats been in dev for how long now? Feb 10 03:35:18 haha Feb 10 03:35:26 rick-work: ares output now as native as anything else Feb 10 03:35:32 oops, dieter died? Feb 10 03:35:36 that's one of the most awesome things about it Feb 10 03:35:38 rick-work: last i heard, it didn't work copy past into/out of ares Feb 10 03:35:39 DIETER, COME BACK! Feb 10 03:35:40 oil, we killed it in early august just after the HP buyout Feb 10 03:35:48 roy is still going Feb 10 03:35:53 NO, Dieter! Feb 10 03:35:58 dieter's back Feb 10 03:36:02 just got a new dieter pic Feb 10 03:36:09 going good now Feb 10 03:36:27 WHen?? Feb 10 03:36:30 WOOOOOOOOO! Feb 10 03:36:31 what?! Feb 10 03:36:31 nownownow Feb 10 03:36:33 what?! Feb 10 03:36:34 * oil goes to forums Feb 10 03:36:34 yippeee Feb 10 03:36:35 "coming months" Feb 10 03:36:36 awesome! Feb 10 03:36:37 YEAH Feb 10 03:36:44 what is everyone watching right now!? Feb 10 03:36:51 anyone free to join the exclusive club? Feb 10 03:36:52 * oil doesnt see it xD Feb 10 03:36:52 precentral/webosroundup Feb 10 03:36:55 http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=ef2e86b5d1/height=1000/width=1000 Feb 10 03:36:57 precentral.nets live feed Feb 10 03:37:03 not very exclusive anymore Feb 10 03:37:20 chuq is going to be getting a lot of emailsss Feb 10 03:37:26 OH this all makes more sense Feb 10 03:37:38 Darnit, I felt so special being in on the Early Access Program. Feb 10 03:37:50 Even if it was the case that nobody really cared about the NDA. Feb 10 03:37:54 yep, it's time to submit koto Feb 10 03:37:55 Ctbeiser: good thing you told us about it Feb 10 03:37:57 speshul Feb 10 03:38:01 doesnt check the tires mean peeing after too much drinking? Feb 10 03:38:09 just sayin Feb 10 03:38:20 oh, kick the tires Feb 10 03:38:22 nvm Feb 10 03:38:29 is it over? Feb 10 03:38:40 cannot find :| Feb 10 03:38:47 welp! Feb 10 03:38:47 that's too bad Feb 10 03:39:04 * dgathright Not seeing anything in the EAP forums about Enyo Feb 10 03:39:10 * Tibfib neither Feb 10 03:39:13 nope Feb 10 03:39:16 wants. enyo. now. Feb 10 03:39:17 dgathright: what! there's special forums too! Feb 10 03:39:23 * haeffb not sure if there even is an early access forum Feb 10 03:39:31 * oil must not be special enough Feb 10 03:39:38 erm, uh, I Feb 10 03:39:40 my mother is a liar Feb 10 03:39:43 LOOK! A PUPPY! Feb 10 03:39:53 you're special, oil. very special Feb 10 03:39:56 :-P Feb 10 03:40:07 that wasn't creepy at all creepydude Feb 10 03:40:09 so special, they have a special bus for you Feb 10 03:40:20 doh Feb 10 03:40:29 the short one is more aerodynamic and fuel efficient Feb 10 03:40:41 oil: mother said that too? Feb 10 03:40:45 I could say something Feb 10 03:40:46 lol Feb 10 03:40:54 but rod beat me to it Feb 10 03:42:58 * DougReeder waves hello Feb 10 03:43:34 So, everyone is in SF, not on IRC? Feb 10 03:43:35 * oil waves back Feb 10 03:43:50 no, we're all here Feb 10 03:43:57 shh, I"m too busy hitting reresh Feb 10 03:44:01 refresh, even Feb 10 03:44:05 IRC is in SF too Feb 10 03:44:11 EvaDragus: let us know when it happens :) Feb 10 03:44:12 or is it that SF is in IRC? Feb 10 03:44:17 my f5 key dont work so good Feb 10 03:44:20 all IRC is in san francisco Feb 10 03:44:31 lol Feb 10 03:45:24 sheesh Feb 10 03:45:24 I'm following the instructions on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/ModemFW_Flash and I see two .tar files (castlecdma_evt1_fw.tar and castleumtsfw.tar). In the instructions it says castleumtsfw.tar is for GSM and I have a Sprint Pre. Does that mean I use castlecdma_evt1_fw.tar even though the page says it should be called castlecdmafw.tar? Feb 10 03:45:28 the who's online thing IS HUGE Feb 10 03:45:39 oil: then try another way to refreshing, hit alt-f4 (har har har) Feb 10 03:45:46 that key is broken too Feb 10 03:45:47 ctrl w Feb 10 03:45:51 that key too Feb 10 03:46:18 twbbas: probably, but you want to ask in #webos-internals Feb 10 03:46:23 Ok thanks. Feb 10 03:49:03 "He's dead, Jim." Feb 10 03:50:07 sugardave is angry Feb 10 03:50:09 omgomgomgomgomgomgomg Feb 10 03:50:17 they didn't mention the possibility of Enyo on 1.x did they? Feb 10 03:50:26 enyo is not os dependent. Feb 10 03:50:36 someone at the event find Chuq, asap Feb 10 03:50:53 haeffb: well he shouldn't have been wearing a red shirt Feb 10 03:51:07 Tibfib: how's that? is it a library you can package with your app? Feb 10 03:51:21 I dunno Feb 10 03:51:28 I just know it's not os dependent. Feb 10 03:51:39 did they mention enyo here Feb 10 03:51:43 fair enough Feb 10 03:51:45 was enyo face? Feb 10 03:51:47 what's enyo? Feb 10 03:51:53 enyo mom last night Feb 10 03:51:57 ha Feb 10 03:51:58 good one Feb 10 03:52:01 * oil highfives Feb 10 03:52:08 * CTLAdvance highfives back Feb 10 03:52:13 * Tibfib intercepts Feb 10 03:52:19 http://isenyoavilablefordownloadyet.com Feb 10 03:52:21 naw, Tibfib is too short Feb 10 03:52:21 enyo tibfib now Feb 10 03:52:29 tmandry, enyo is not od dependent you can run it in a browser. Feb 10 03:52:44 where do we have enyo info Feb 10 03:52:46 ? Feb 10 03:52:46 hah, made you click :) Feb 10 03:52:55 oil: :( Feb 10 03:53:08 wasenyomomlastnight.com Feb 10 03:53:17 "NO" Feb 10 03:53:17 rick-work: yeah but taking advantage of hardware accel and all that.. that might require some internal changes Feb 10 03:53:18 enyo is a javascript framework Feb 10 03:53:29 like mojo, like prototype ? Feb 10 03:53:35 Prototype Feb 10 03:53:38 like jquery Feb 10 03:53:44 like moo Feb 10 03:53:50 like magial unicorns Feb 10 03:53:50 jquery is like you mom Feb 10 03:53:59 ok enough of this Feb 10 03:54:20 * dgathright amazed that the room has devolved into yo momma jokes Feb 10 03:54:22 tmandry: rwhitby was speculating about that earlier. the acceleration is probably not enyo specific Feb 10 03:54:49 enyo momma jokes. Much classier than yo momma jokes. Feb 10 03:54:55 "hardware acceleration" is like a buzzword Feb 10 03:54:59 * Tibfib bets dgathright is just mad he can't think of any Feb 10 03:55:50 * dgathright thinks his "Enyo Facts" meme from the other night was much funnier. Feb 10 03:55:57 * Tibfib does too Feb 10 03:56:20 * dgathright thinks tibfib is awesome Feb 10 03:56:33 * oil thinks its time for dinner Feb 10 03:56:46 dgathright: why thank you sir Feb 10 03:57:09 * haeffb out. I'll be see enyo guys later. Feb 10 03:57:19 * dgathright thinking there is no time for eating, lots of refreshing forum pages to do Feb 10 03:57:26 y'all might be interested to know that I'm moving my PDK app (unreleased) completely to Qt Feb 10 03:57:37 * DougReeder snorts Feb 10 03:57:57 which is almost finished, just have to migrate some of the SDL-specific event stuff Feb 10 03:58:50 heh, the box for the nookcolor has a magnet in it to snap it shut Feb 10 03:58:52 oy Feb 10 03:59:18 Qt is very nice.. widgets look good and are easily stylable Feb 10 03:59:39 * rick-work may have just posted the "where is enyo info" in an ares EA forum if any such place existed. Feb 10 04:00:09 what? an Ares EA forum too! How many of these secret places are there?!?!? Feb 10 04:00:16 oh yeah, there may be more than one ea ofrum Feb 10 04:00:23 forum* Feb 10 04:00:32 if there is, I don't see it..? Feb 10 04:00:34 * rwhitby just posted in the Preware EA forum Feb 10 04:01:11 is this on precentral or something? Feb 10 04:01:24 how many secrets are there rwhitby ??? Feb 10 04:01:32 * dgathright just post enyo momma EA program (heyoooo) Feb 10 04:01:35 rick-work I may have seconded that said question if it exists Feb 10 04:01:51 booo to "invalid login" Feb 10 04:02:04 there is a preware ea forum Feb 10 04:02:08 wut Feb 10 04:02:51 setec astronomy Feb 10 04:02:57 CTLAdvance: well, it's really a fileCoaster EA forum, but we took it over Feb 10 04:03:26 ugh, I cant believe they wpuldnt test things in IE9... webdev fail Feb 10 04:03:31 * rick-work remembers filecoaster. Not fondly you understand, but I do remember it. Feb 10 04:04:07 if filecoaster had random taglines, one of them would be "so ugly, we made oil go work on preware" Feb 10 04:04:34 rick-work: fileCoaster was updated just the other day Feb 10 04:04:50 * rick-work remembers when oil suddenly realized that all we had for preware was a set of pencil drawings.... Feb 10 04:04:58 HAHA Feb 10 04:05:11 we reminisced about that last night :) Feb 10 04:05:56 CTLAdvance: I thought IE9 was still a moving target, or did they actually release it? Feb 10 04:06:43 GOOD pencil drawings I point out but still..... Feb 10 04:07:15 WAIT WAIT, that photo isn't of tech. What's a BAR doing at a tech event. Geeks don't drink. :-) Feb 10 04:07:34 tell that to luky strike lanes Feb 10 04:07:52 My beer.js meetups disagrees with that statement. Feb 10 04:08:06 Does webos now support hybrid apps in catalog Feb 10 04:08:16 ask chuq inthe morning Feb 10 04:08:20 after he sobers up Feb 10 04:08:30 http://bit.ly/fOmaWC <- classoc Feb 10 04:08:34 classic even Feb 10 04:09:58 haha, nice Feb 10 04:11:41 geeks don't drink...unless they're drinking Feb 10 04:16:37 http://www.todaysbigthing.com/technology/2009/08/04 Feb 10 04:17:53 collding smoke rings == AWESOME! Feb 10 04:19:01 that is pretty cool Feb 10 04:21:50 oh wow, I really want to swype back on this here nookcolor :/ Feb 10 04:23:05 Chuq just posted an update on twitter! Feb 10 04:23:15 "Just Posted: Today's Shared Links for February 9, 2011 http://www.chuqui.com/2011/02/todays-shared-links-for-february-9-2011/" <---- not quite what I was hoping for Feb 10 04:23:20 tricky tricky Feb 10 04:23:55 That better be automated, cause if he's dilly dallying around, posting bookmarks, I'm gonna be one grumpy developer. Feb 10 04:24:29 heh Feb 10 04:25:09 Can anyone in SF ask if there's a way for users to generate a back gesture on the TouchPad? Feb 10 04:25:42 So Preware is a bit hard to use without a back gesture ... Feb 10 04:27:16 Hi everybody Feb 10 04:27:46 hi dr. nick! Feb 10 04:27:58 hahaha Feb 10 04:28:06 ;) Feb 10 04:28:14 :) Feb 10 04:30:15 exciting day Feb 10 04:30:21 goodnight everyone Feb 10 04:30:43 * DougReeder waves goodnight Feb 10 04:30:46 night Feb 10 04:32:29 * halfhalo goes back to node coding Feb 10 04:32:51 halfhalo, may I ask what you're working on? Feb 10 04:33:44 NERDS Feb 10 04:33:57 right now? a key-value on disk store thingie Feb 10 04:34:43 Isn't there a module for that? Feb 10 04:36:10 yeah, but this has a few extra tricks up its sleeve in regards to defaults Feb 10 04:37:02 * DougReeder nods Feb 10 04:37:56 I've tried to think of something non-niche to do in node, but I can't think of anything beyond syncing. Syncing is quite useful, though. Feb 10 04:41:02 Dang, looks like I've never logged into Ares 1.0, just pre 1.0. Feb 10 04:54:23 I have logged into Ares...it doesn't like my FF Feb 10 04:54:30 lol @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI056nhaduk Feb 10 04:54:30 ' Feb 10 04:55:46 haha Feb 10 04:56:08 dgathright: :) Feb 10 04:57:56 rofl. "I like pizza, you like shopping. Jon Rubenstein likes to crush dreams and find new ways to burn a company to the ground every year." Feb 10 04:58:04 * oil is going to go get a moto razor Feb 10 04:58:09 LOL Feb 10 04:58:31 Agree with "When did cell phones become this stressful?" Feb 10 04:58:51 Fucking Apple, they started this mess. Feb 10 05:00:22 dgathright: lmao Feb 10 05:01:46 no they didn't Feb 10 05:02:01 PALM started this mess Feb 10 05:06:58 I say that jokingly. Mobile devices sucked balls before iOS, and yet they were still crazy expensive. I think my last Treo cost me $350, and that was with a 2 year contract. Then along came Android, whose sole mission isn't to build the best mobile OS, it's just to ensure iOS doesn't dominate. webOS would have been amazingly successful had the game not totally changed in 2008 as prices plummeted, and release cycles increased in freque Feb 10 05:06:58 expectations. But, the game changing is what forced Palm to reinvent itself as well. Feb 10 05:08:29 by the way, was it only me or should palm not have come out with solid and exact _dates_ this time with a month and day? Feb 10 05:08:33 err hp now rather Feb 10 05:09:21 in days when "in the coming months" means "maybe never depending on if it works well", stronger promises would have been reassuring... Feb 10 05:11:26 I can understand if they don't want to give exact dates for something that is 6 months out. I'd prefer they don't. But, they shouldn't be announcing stuff that far out anyways. Feb 10 05:11:52 I'm outty, be back later, hopefully Enyo will have been released. Feb 10 05:14:05 argh... watching the hour long event now... the TouchPad is choppy Feb 10 05:14:07 wtf Feb 10 05:14:21 when he opens the calendar, it's unresponsive for a half second Feb 10 05:14:37 and then when he's scrolling cards, it's choppy as well... :( Feb 10 05:15:04 i hope this is fixed before the product ships damnit Feb 10 05:22:17 Orithma: they said the current apps are not optimized Feb 10 05:22:28 it's not ready yet Feb 10 05:23:23 Can someone in SF ask if JS services will be allowed in the App Catalog soon? Feb 10 05:23:43 jhojho: is the event still running? Feb 10 05:27:40 hurray wirc Feb 10 05:27:50 finally installed it Feb 10 05:27:52 yay :) Feb 10 05:28:01 lol oil Feb 10 05:28:07 good work Feb 10 05:28:11 thanks Feb 10 05:28:52 That's got to be the largest gathering of ZeroConf (Bonjour) devices in quite a while -- is anyone showing anything off? Feb 10 05:30:44 yo Feb 10 05:31:34 DougReeder: Why am I thinking "I'll just plug in this scanner..." after seeing what you just said? :P Feb 10 05:31:58 Why is webOS fucking awesoe? Feb 10 05:32:04 Hey, if I'd been going, I would've rigged something up. Feb 10 05:32:06 *deck Feb 10 05:32:27 ZeroConf is so cool... but there have to be devices broadcasting. Feb 10 05:36:43 is the problem with webos that most js/html programmers don't know/care about things like zeroconf ? Feb 10 05:36:55 or doing more interesting things with the devices ? Feb 10 05:37:56 Eh, ZeroConf is not appreciated nearly as much as it should be -- it's the way networking should have always worked. Feb 10 05:38:27 But the big customer is institutions. Dunno why they're not on board. Feb 10 05:39:03 Does webOS pwn Android in a semufight? Feb 10 05:39:43 hey Madonna, loved your latest album. Feb 10 05:39:51 thn Feb 10 05:39:52 x Feb 10 05:39:54 Me too Feb 10 05:40:01 Actually, ZeroConf _is_ the way networking worked... when networking was AppleTalk. Feb 10 05:40:08 Kanye is great in bed btw Feb 10 05:40:24 yeah, I know. Feb 10 05:40:43 * Madonna slurped his noodle. Feb 10 05:41:16 Apple puts their new employee stuff up using ZeroConf -- all the old employees remember is to tell new employees to look using Bonjour. Feb 10 05:42:44 should have had katy perry instead of serena williams at the event Feb 10 05:43:15 Should have had Madonna. Feb 10 05:43:43 Does webOS use node.js? Feb 10 05:44:21 2.x does Feb 10 05:44:47 For? Feb 10 05:45:06 Anything you like. But mostly syncing. Feb 10 05:45:36 Is node.js used with a special SDK? Feb 10 05:45:37 ... and to access certain capabilities that aren't advailable to foreground apps. Feb 10 05:46:11 So all webOS dev is done in Javasccript? Feb 10 05:46:19 not all Feb 10 05:46:21 not necessarily Feb 10 05:46:21 For details, you need to ask on the Early Access forums. Just email PDC to get in. Feb 10 05:46:44 C/C++, html/js/css are both supported options Feb 10 05:46:51 and supported together Feb 10 05:46:55 right Feb 10 05:47:18 And you really ought to add SQL to the languages. Feb 10 05:47:26 SQL it is Feb 10 05:48:00 Madonna: I hear your fan web site uses node.js Feb 10 05:48:13 Who says? Feb 10 05:48:25 Actually, I should read up on "software agents" - should be some good ideas there. Feb 10 05:48:54 Madonna: I read it in #Node.js earlier today Feb 10 05:50:14 Interesting./ Feb 10 05:50:40 me .oO(Damn, with the emulator running at 480x800, I need to re-arrange my terminal windows!) Feb 10 05:55:12 meh Feb 10 05:55:31 the free wifi at SFO Airport sucks Feb 10 05:55:55 Alas, one doesn't tend to get what one doesn't pay for. Feb 10 05:56:13 well it works, just freenode doesnt like it, so im forced to use freenode's webchat Feb 10 05:56:47 and the airline wont let me check in for my 6am flight until 4am.. which means im stuck out here for a few hours Feb 10 05:59:33 Bummer. Got power? Feb 10 05:59:35 oh and this wifi is supposed to only last 45minutes, we'll see Feb 10 05:59:45 yah power and a long cord Feb 10 06:00:06 SeaTac has USB power sockets, IIRC. Feb 10 06:01:15 i know southwest at DTW does Feb 10 06:01:25 only cause i walk by it almost everyday heh Feb 10 06:03:54 game on. Feb 10 06:04:05 do it Feb 10 06:04:17 what now? Feb 10 06:04:28 post that shit Feb 10 06:04:32 :P Feb 10 06:04:51 I was thinking of where I could put in a shout out to my peeps in IRC into the talk but they were pretty adamant about keeping it pro Feb 10 06:05:10 it'll go up sometime tomorrow. Feb 10 06:05:14 you did a great job Feb 10 06:05:19 why thank you Feb 10 06:05:25 except Feb 10 06:05:38 pre3 had app7, touchpad had app9 Feb 10 06:05:45 except I apparently had swagger according to precentral? Feb 10 06:05:52 mattsmcnulty: what we saw in the liveblogs looked good. what is lacking is all the other non-enyo information that developers need to know Feb 10 06:05:57 ha Feb 10 06:06:14 but i wasnt gonna stand up and point it out and ruin your mojo Feb 10 06:06:22 was a minor hiccup with the pre - I launched the wrong app - one from rehearsals. was exactly the same app though Feb 10 06:06:32 mattsmcnulty: you did good - congrats Feb 10 06:06:33 i believe ya :P Feb 10 06:06:34 missed by a row Feb 10 06:06:48 enyo time now? Feb 10 06:07:01 thanks bpadalino. Feb 10 06:07:06 mattsmcnulty: so there was no other information or Q&A except your enjo presentation and the bigwigs introductions ahead of it? Feb 10 06:07:13 oh yeah, who can i talk to about getting my $4 back? they made me pay for parking Feb 10 06:07:17 oh, and gj mattsmcnulty Feb 10 06:07:17 afterwards Feb 10 06:07:19 it's neat to see desktop integration with device info for enyo Feb 10 06:07:26 dawm did you tell them HP event? Feb 10 06:07:41 yeah she said they didnt have any conrol over that Feb 10 06:07:45 yes, desktop with device is way cool. we only managed to invent that a week or so ago Feb 10 06:07:48 huh Feb 10 06:07:50 mattsmcnulty: the apps rewritten for the tablet, those have not been optimized or anything yet - right ? Feb 10 06:07:57 yes that is true Feb 10 06:07:58 Enyo looks really cool, but the transition will be very rocky unless HP/Palm takes action. Feb 10 06:08:01 * Madonna is too sexy for webOS. Feb 10 06:08:29 *phew* some of the demoing looked a little sluggish on the touchpad Feb 10 06:08:30 mattsmcnulty: how will the "back" gesture be handled for legacy apps running on the touchpad ? Feb 10 06:08:53 it will be handled. beyond that I can't really say Feb 10 06:08:55 * halfhalo votes virtual gesturearea Feb 10 06:09:14 Wave your hand in the general direction of the tablet, and hope for the best? Feb 10 06:09:18 mattsmcnulty: I hope it's not a back button in the top left status bar ... Feb 10 06:09:22 yeah i told the attendant that i was with the hp event, showed her my lanyard. and her reply was they didnt know anything about it, $4 bux please Feb 10 06:09:36 it's a back button in the middle of the screen - not in the top left! Feb 10 06:09:40 and you were in the lot right by the event? Feb 10 06:09:48 yep Feb 10 06:09:51 weird Feb 10 06:09:57 I left much later, but I dunno Feb 10 06:10:01 bpadalino: maybe it's on the back of the device, like the new Sony device Feb 10 06:10:04 Will all the currently defined gestures be "handled"? Feb 10 06:10:05 no biggie Feb 10 06:10:12 rwhitby: ooh, good choice! Feb 10 06:10:21 apps will continue to work Feb 10 06:10:31 ooh, i got it - you hold volume up and toggle the mute switch 3x to do the back gesture Feb 10 06:10:38 :) Feb 10 06:10:40 no Feb 10 06:10:52 Matt, may I suggest that message (apps will continue to work) be stressed tomorrow? Feb 10 06:11:25 um sure? I'll provide the feedback that that may not be as clear as we thought - we even said so at devday nyc Feb 10 06:11:29 mattsmcnulty: so did any of the developer reaction from the forums bleed through into the festivities, or was there enough beer available to quell the pitchforks? Feb 10 06:11:32 mojo will remain on devices, etc Feb 10 06:12:06 not sure which reaction you are talking about - I was not even paying attention to email all day Feb 10 06:12:13 the ota thing, or what Feb 10 06:12:22 The forums are ugly. Feb 10 06:12:25 that, and not being able to buy stuff now Feb 10 06:12:26 lol Feb 10 06:12:35 summer release seems to be a sore subject Feb 10 06:12:53 especially when summer is 9 months away for me ... Feb 10 06:12:55 will there be an api for the device tap thing? or is it websites only? Feb 10 06:13:01 mattsmcnulty: yeah, the "no webos 2.0 plans for pre any more, sorry we said that before" kind of thing... Feb 10 06:13:29 mattsmcnulty: we realise that OTA is completely out of your area of course Feb 10 06:13:44 yeah, unfortunately there really isn't anything I can comment on on that Feb 10 06:14:06 I suspect there isn't anyone who can at the moment, until the PR folks meet tomorrow. Feb 10 06:14:37 mattsmcnulty: nice job re enyo btw. for some reason this strikes me as more of a success in the "write once, run anywhere" category than even java Feb 10 06:14:41 no one wants to cause pain to our early adopters - I can assure you of that Feb 10 06:14:57 mattsmcnulty: on more of a note you can comment on, you mentioned enyo for EA people tonight? is that still right ? Feb 10 06:15:09 There's a lot of unanswered questions about how we get from here to there. Feb 10 06:15:12 he said tomorrow above Feb 10 06:15:18 yeah tomorrow Feb 10 06:15:20 destinal: thank you. java had to have a runtime env written in each platform - we have webkit Feb 10 06:15:37 well, it's not the end of tonight for another 7+ hours here, so he's got time ... Feb 10 06:15:39 bpadalino: I was not sure - I knew there was hope to get it up tonight but I think tomorrow is more likely Feb 10 06:15:49 weaksauce :( Feb 10 06:16:15 if you had 1% of the understanding of what today took, you'd cut us a tiny bit of slack :-) Feb 10 06:16:19 is it out yet? is it out yet? is it out yet? is it out yet? is it out yet? Feb 10 06:16:34 mattsmcnulty: yeah, I can imagine :) Feb 10 06:17:07 Oh, apparently not until tomorrow. Feb 10 06:17:14 * halfhalo is now sorta debating getting a pre2 Feb 10 06:17:15 mattsmcnulty: everyone's pretty excited, webos apps in the future written in enyo will be webos apps but on the other hand, just enyo webapps run locally, so cross platform.. it's kind of strange to think of webos actually living up to the name Feb 10 06:17:36 like completely Feb 10 06:17:51 mattsmcnulty: I got the feeling mojo was written by developers who really liked Java :) Feb 10 06:18:04 * halfhalo can't wait for enyo Feb 10 06:18:28 destinal: thanks. It is my personal pleasure to make webos what I thought it was when I saw CES two years ago Feb 10 06:18:39 I went away for an hour and a half...no change? Feb 10 06:19:00 i'm excited to dive into enyo as well, thanks mattsmcnulty :) Feb 10 06:19:07 my pleasure Feb 10 06:19:48 I was hoping we'd get some Pre3's handed out tonight, so we could start taking apart the OS on it :) Feb 10 06:19:54 looks like im gonna get booted every 45minutes Feb 10 06:19:56 Certainly, Mojo was a letdown. Feb 10 06:20:23 pre3 is 2.x Feb 10 06:20:46 phone app is enyo though Feb 10 06:20:48 it's 2.x at the moment, or that's what it will be released with? Feb 10 06:20:50 mattsmcnulty: so it looks like then 3.x is the enyo rewrite of all the core apps and functionality? Feb 10 06:20:52 I liked Mojo... Feb 10 06:20:55 yeah, but it must have the touch to share stuff in it :) Feb 10 06:20:55 I still do Feb 10 06:20:58 enyo is pretty 2.x/3.x agnostic Feb 10 06:21:15 touch to share is a hardware thing more than software, in terms of whether things are compatible Feb 10 06:21:28 Was it annouced if Enyo apps run on webOS 1.x? Feb 10 06:21:32 3.x has the core apps all rewritten in enyo yes Feb 10 06:21:35 ah, that must be the A6 stuff we've seen. Feb 10 06:21:41 mattsmcnulty: true or false - old devices won't get 2.x because they'll jump directly to 3.x? Feb 10 06:21:49 lol Feb 10 06:22:04 Nice one bpadalino =p Feb 10 06:22:07 lol Feb 10 06:22:08 future looking statements not announced dont get comments. nice try though Feb 10 06:22:15 oil said it first, i can't take credit Feb 10 06:22:18 y3y3 Feb 10 06:22:20 hehe Feb 10 06:22:50 guys Feb 10 06:22:56 * oil bows Feb 10 06:23:00 i forgot the pin to my sdk -_0 Feb 10 06:23:04 mattsmcnulty: bit of a bummer about the grey areas in the web page demo at the press event :( Feb 10 06:23:05 pre3 is 2.x as demoed tonight Feb 10 06:23:07 i am surprised the touch to share is such a hardware thing Feb 10 06:23:12 im locke out .. do i reinstall or is there a way around it Feb 10 06:23:31 why do you have a pin on the emu Feb 10 06:23:33 bpadalino: the proximity is, the actual transfer is over bluetooth apparently Feb 10 06:23:50 mattsmcnulty: the performance *increases* moving to enyo are impressive and were surprising to me at first until I realized how more efficient the framework was than mojo is Feb 10 06:23:53 dawm|sfo_ before i got my device i was testing everything .. pin / menu settings Feb 10 06:23:59 lol Feb 10 06:24:02 right, bluetooth just transfer.. interesting Feb 10 06:24:34 dawm|sfo_ do i reinstall it ? Feb 10 06:24:39 wait when is/was the developer event Feb 10 06:24:44 destinal: yes, it is much more efficient Feb 10 06:24:45 10 PST right Feb 10 06:24:47 sure Feb 10 06:24:52 dev event was 7pm pst Feb 10 06:24:53 mattsmcnulty: when you were doing the demo with the map interface, moving/scrolling the map on the pre and tablet still looked choppy .. :( Feb 10 06:24:55 rwhitby: might now how to fix it tho Feb 10 06:24:55 o silly me Feb 10 06:24:57 10 EST Feb 10 06:25:00 mattsmcnulty: when is the flight tomorrow ? Feb 10 06:25:15 mattsmcnulty: is a new version of ares going to be provided in the EA stuff you mentioned? Feb 10 06:25:29 bpadalino: that's more just demo and the maps tech, not really anything with the device or os or enyo Feb 10 06:25:40 new ares is not tomorrow Feb 10 06:26:00 though ?res=1024x768 or whatever works right now Feb 10 06:26:00 I'm sad that we don't get to play tonight Feb 10 06:26:10 as does palm-emulator --resolutions 1024x768 Feb 10 06:26:13 member:mattsmcnulty , since 48px is no longer the same physical size, is there a new reccomended minimum tap target size? Feb 10 06:26:36 same on touchpad - people are sloppier on tablets Feb 10 06:27:25 DougReeder: I think the proper size is in em's now, right? Feb 10 06:27:38 Yah, how many ems is that? Feb 10 06:28:03 aren't ems relative to font size/line height? Feb 10 06:28:36 recommended tap size and enforced tap size are different, 48 is just a guideline, ive used less.. way less Feb 10 06:28:37 Yes, they are. Feb 10 06:28:52 there isnt an enforced size Feb 10 06:30:16 ems are relative to font size Feb 10 06:30:25 I agree 48 is large Feb 10 06:30:36 so the idea is you size your app in ems Feb 10 06:30:49 then crank the font size up/down for different PPI Feb 10 06:32:18 oh man. I am so not a fan of photos of myself, and that shit is everywhere tonight Feb 10 06:32:50 yeah, you've got some swagger tonight Feb 10 06:32:55 heh Feb 10 06:33:00 hah Feb 10 06:33:00 speaking of bad photos Feb 10 06:33:06 I saw dieter, too. I knew where he was Feb 10 06:33:11 saw them snapping Feb 10 06:34:25 I didn't see the "enyo face" caption on precentral until just now Feb 10 06:34:56 I was pushing hard for "enyo brain? enyo hands. now." instead of "ready. set. enyo" for the announcement slide. Those in charge were less fun Feb 10 06:35:03 mattsmcnulty: has anyone at palm seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI056nhaduk yet? Feb 10 06:35:07 ;o Feb 10 06:35:11 it's NSFW and pretty harsh Feb 10 06:35:26 our vote earlier was for enyo momma Feb 10 06:35:26 well I have, right now Feb 10 06:35:50 ha Feb 10 06:36:14 mattsmcnulty: that's pretty much what's going on in the forums that chuq points to right now Feb 10 06:36:23 something's going on in the forums? Feb 10 06:37:29 negativity breeding on itself unfortunately Feb 10 06:37:30 heh Feb 10 06:38:05 "pure sheet" Feb 10 06:38:09 "hp is retard" Feb 10 06:38:10 D: Feb 10 06:38:13 torchie Feb 10 06:38:20 i had that typed then deleted it Feb 10 06:38:23 i liked that bit Feb 10 06:38:26 lol Feb 10 06:38:27 it sounded funny Feb 10 06:38:27 lots of negative sentiment due to the summer timeframe Feb 10 06:38:34 I'll say Feb 10 06:38:37 yeah the summer timeframe is a huge problem Feb 10 06:38:43 well in defense.. they didnt say how many weeks.. just weeks Feb 10 06:38:49 HP/Palm was clearly focused on the future today, and devs are uncertain about how we'll get there. Feb 10 06:39:07 i was disappointed there wasn't a toaster Feb 10 06:39:15 "when did cellphones become so stressful?" Feb 10 06:39:17 there was one somewhere Feb 10 06:39:28 cause i ated something that was toasted Feb 10 06:39:40 "sometime between when apple treated me like I was 7 and google released 30 android updates a month." Feb 10 06:39:49 http://twitter.com/ThomasCoe# - interesting tweets from that guy .. whoever he is Feb 10 06:39:51 hear hear Feb 10 06:39:51 I was looking forward to a webOS watch with a flexible display that displays notifications and stuff from the webOS phone in your pocket. Feb 10 06:39:58 sons of bitches, no 2.0 for us original device users Feb 10 06:40:02 I was looking forward to a webos slate on sprint Feb 10 06:40:04 today Feb 10 06:40:23 dawm|sfo_: that argument makes you (HP) sound like you're a con artist and intentionally meant to mislead people Feb 10 06:40:28 when I saw something about special deals on the website I was like omg they're selling it NOW!?!?!?!?1/1/ Feb 10 06:41:20 what? Feb 10 06:41:38 im lost Feb 10 06:42:49 "we said 'weeks' not how many har har har" Feb 10 06:43:16 i saw that thomascole guy at the event, or someone that looks like him Feb 10 06:43:24 oh i forgot i said something about that ;p Feb 10 06:43:32 interesting Feb 10 06:43:41 * torchie sigh Feb 10 06:44:28 wait there's more to the line lol Feb 10 06:44:33 "hp is retard and I have all the anger" Feb 10 06:45:09 hey torchie Feb 10 06:45:15 bpadalino: ThomasCoe says he got info from Ruby and Phil Feb 10 06:45:18 i have all of the anger Feb 10 06:45:20 all Feb 10 06:45:21 you forgot the of Feb 10 06:45:22 of the anger. Feb 10 06:45:23 the "something special" for original device owners better be a free Pre3 or something Feb 10 06:45:35 the something special for original device owners better be a free pre3 Feb 10 06:45:38 on sprint Feb 10 06:45:39 in the mail Feb 10 06:45:41 rwhitby: indeed, but i dunno how much salt is required for his statements Feb 10 06:45:41 tonight. Feb 10 06:45:50 yah i need a new pre Feb 10 06:46:01 * torchie reads the thomascoe thing Feb 10 06:46:06 I need a new something that isn't a pre Feb 10 06:46:14 TouchPad! Feb 10 06:46:36 so uhh Feb 10 06:46:48 pre2 wont be coming to sprint because its going to verizon? Feb 10 06:46:55 im pretty sure i roam on verizon at times Feb 10 06:47:14 It sounds like it's a Verizon exclusive Feb 10 06:47:19 I was thinking more along the lines of a phone Feb 10 06:47:26 doesnt mean they cant make a sprint flavor Feb 10 06:47:29 You can make calls on the TouchPad :D Feb 10 06:47:37 if they have 1 cdma phone why not another Feb 10 06:47:38 if you have your phone docked Feb 10 06:47:39 a phone that fits in my pocket. Feb 10 06:47:44 heh Feb 10 06:47:47 Cargo pants? Feb 10 06:47:50 http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/ : "I'm reminded of a short story by science fiction legend Arthur C. Clarke, Superiority. In it he described a society that lost a war by continually focusing on the new weapons that were about to come out of the labs, rather than mass-producing the ones that it already knew how to build." I think this describes HP/Palm, to some extent, as well. Feb 10 06:47:52 it won't help to have my phone docked if it's broken and old Feb 10 06:48:49 mattsmcnulty: have a safe flight tomorrow .. and enjoy barcelona Feb 10 06:48:55 or whenever the flight is Feb 10 06:49:08 lol Feb 10 06:49:27 thank you. yes, tomorrow Feb 10 06:50:17 I'm a little confused about apotheker's statement Feb 10 06:50:33 within weeks of the announcement, the pre2 will be on vzw? Feb 10 06:50:45 heh Feb 10 06:50:49 i've never had tapas in spain, but something tells me they'd be pretty tasty Feb 10 06:50:50 heh Feb 10 06:52:04 bah ok. rather than work this evening i'm just going to go to bed Feb 10 06:52:18 torchie - do you use the stock nookcolor ui at all Feb 10 06:52:33 everything but the launcher CTLAdvance Feb 10 06:52:51 though I love the book covers in the default launcher, it runs balls-choppy and treats sideloaded books like second class citizens Feb 10 06:53:07 so I went to launcherpro Feb 10 06:53:09 now I'm trying out ADW Feb 10 06:53:28 Do you know if you can get you can get sideloaded books on the home screen Feb 10 06:53:32 sounds like no Feb 10 06:53:45 you can't :( Feb 10 06:53:53 what kind of crap is that Feb 10 06:53:59 http://twitter.com/#!/unwiredben/status/35591859564707840 Feb 10 06:54:01 your content isnt good enough for us Feb 10 06:54:06 that crap is called capitalism Feb 10 06:54:08 hybrids Feb 10 06:54:16 nobody told ben they werent releasing them? Feb 10 06:54:26 BNN sells hardware like the nook color at a loss so they have to recuperate with BNN shop sales Feb 10 06:54:28 I guess not Feb 10 06:54:42 and to do that their UI encourages you to buy from the bnn shop Feb 10 06:55:05 hey all - I am going to watch a bit of tv to finish calming down, so I can get up and pack. Thanks all, and we'll get devices to everyone just as soon as we possibly can Feb 10 06:55:05 easiest way to do it? when you buy a new book it shows up on your home screen Feb 10 06:55:09 ooh so nice! Feb 10 06:55:20 see ya matt Feb 10 06:56:08 eh.. yeah I hear ya Feb 10 06:56:28 so ill make a shelf and push them there..................... errrrrr Feb 10 06:57:29 don't bother making shelves Feb 10 06:57:41 put all your sideload content into /my files/books Feb 10 06:57:48 it'll all get automatically indexed and show up in your main library Feb 10 06:57:58 oh, and you guys need to see the veer. not much longer until it comes out, and pictures do *not* do it justice. Feb 10 06:58:10 mattsmcnulty: what about the "this is my thumb" comparison? Feb 10 06:58:31 even that is hard because people have different size thumbs Feb 10 06:58:33 one step at a time, I want to see Enyo first Feb 10 06:58:44 lol Feb 10 06:58:49 I want a phone :( Feb 10 06:59:02 i gotta ask, was the magnetic headphone dongle the idea all along? Feb 10 06:59:09 or was it like "oh crap, we forgot a headset jack" Feb 10 06:59:13 haha Feb 10 06:59:15 when it was already too far Feb 10 06:59:16 designed Feb 10 06:59:23 there are no ports on veer Feb 10 06:59:23 is it real "solid" Feb 10 06:59:26 no holes Feb 10 06:59:31 it is gorgeous Feb 10 06:59:31 like, not gonna pop off in a pocket? Feb 10 06:59:37 super high build quality Feb 10 06:59:42 No holes is good. Feb 10 07:00:05 nice Feb 10 07:00:55 how about the pre 3 build quality Feb 10 07:01:20 if its like the pre2 it will be good Feb 10 07:01:23 the pre2 feels real solid Feb 10 07:02:04 how solid Feb 10 07:02:20 for someone who has an intense mistrust of slider quality, especially vertical Feb 10 07:03:04 well, i haven't used one for a while so maybe it goes down hill Feb 10 07:03:10 just for dev, it sits on a desk all day Feb 10 07:03:13 gah fed up with hp / palm. where is this weird 2.0 doctor for old pres people are talking about? it's either that or i'm out and about to buy an android Feb 10 07:05:21 Torchie - pre 2 is very solid - my Sprint Pre 2 is really solid, and after letting it ride in my pocket with keys, its still good Feb 10 07:06:33 I still wonder if there's something hp's not telling us Feb 10 07:06:41 what I do absolutely hate about the pre 1, 1.5 and 2, is the flash bleed through into the cameras due to the design of the back Feb 10 07:07:12 torchie - HP bought compaq years ago and ended up with the ipaq, they ran that into the ground Feb 10 07:07:25 I wonder about HP's corporate structure sometimes Feb 10 07:07:38 I smell some resemblences but dont see the same monster yet they can still redeem themselves Feb 10 07:07:46 CTLAdvance: well it certainly doesn't feel like they put any kind of manpower behind the palm products Feb 10 07:07:55 palm is dead Feb 10 07:07:59 which you'd expect them to do it they were serious abot the entire thing Feb 10 07:08:00 dont even call it that anymore Feb 10 07:08:00 sorry, looked away - pre3 and veer have extremely similar builds - both are *really* nice Feb 10 07:08:15 CTLAdvance: well saying HP is dead sounds wrong Feb 10 07:08:17 single piece back, rubberized plastic, glass front Feb 10 07:08:24 they won't be... palm on the other hand. yeah since yesterday it's pretty much dead Feb 10 07:08:27 who said HP is dead Feb 10 07:08:41 night all Feb 10 07:08:44 PALM is dead, HP will never let palm spin off its all or nothing Feb 10 07:08:47 mattsmcnulty: does Pre3 have removable battery or not? I know Veer does not. Feb 10 07:08:53 to many patents and ip Feb 10 07:09:07 apotheker tells us new devices in a few weeks, thinkbeyond says "summer", rubenstein tells us usb-tethered 2.x, HP says no update at all... Feb 10 07:09:12 CTLAdvance: so if it's all or nothing, why didn't they do more in the last few months Feb 10 07:09:36 I mean, hp webos will succeed or be killed off Feb 10 07:09:53 I imagine they might get somewhere if they force webos hard enough Feb 10 07:10:04 I could easily see this turn into a webOS overlay for wp7 on pc's if devices dont sell well Feb 10 07:10:23 I like the tab so I hope it does well, but we will see. Feb 10 07:11:03 webOS overlay for windows 7 not wp7 Feb 10 07:11:14 ugh overlays on windows Feb 10 07:11:20 CTLAdvance: well if that's what you were hoping for :-) Feb 10 07:11:35 its not, just saying Feb 10 07:11:51 it's just gonna be more "yeah my computer came with this thing I'm gonna uninstall and go run crysis" Feb 10 07:11:55 WOO RADEON HD 6000 Feb 10 07:12:26 i'd rather have new dev tools for webos 2 / 3 right now, an emulator, webos 2.0 for pre1, flash since 12 months, .... Feb 10 07:12:41 i really expected them to put a few hundred / thousand people behind the project Feb 10 07:13:05 if you're serious about competing with iphone / android, that is Feb 10 07:14:06 but yesterday's show should have been dubbed "let me re-introduce you to webos2, which you couldn't try yet, since i was lying to you a few months ago. so yay, webos2!" Feb 10 07:16:35 webos 3 on the tablet! Feb 10 07:16:52 I'm still waiting for hp to jump out and yell just kidding lol Feb 10 07:17:10 oil: which noone will be buying because devs wander off palm now. great job Feb 10 07:17:13 "just kidding, we meant NEXT summer!" Feb 10 07:17:23 HAHA Feb 10 07:17:32 muesli: ill still be here in 6 months :) Feb 10 07:17:36 screw the tab. let's fix the phone webos situation first. how do they expect me to buy a tablet if they can't even fix my phone in the first place Feb 10 07:18:00 * oil will get pre3 and tablet :) Feb 10 07:18:03 "we actually meant summer 2015" Feb 10 07:18:09 "just a little longer" Feb 10 07:18:24 muesli - go buy a different device for now, then come back when they launch a new device Feb 10 07:18:38 or stop your complaining I am sure they dont really care Feb 10 07:18:54 yeah it's apparent they don't care :-) Feb 10 07:19:09 which i thought was the one thing differentiating palm from others Feb 10 07:19:50 its HP Feb 10 07:19:54 The thing is they just arent ready, and when they are ready to reenter the market, you will be able to get another webOS device. Feb 10 07:19:57 screw it Feb 10 07:20:05 CTLAdvance: as mentioned, i was just hoping someone could link me to a 2.0 doctor for the old pre. i'll be gone buying an htc desire z in an hour otherwise Feb 10 07:20:06 let's just buy some moto razrs on ebay Feb 10 07:20:22 CTLAdvance: well, they should have been ready by today Feb 10 07:20:24 muesli - even if they did exist, we couldnt link you to it Feb 10 07:21:02 coming from a pre - I can confirm it cant handle it... that is all Feb 10 07:21:09 It couldnt really handle 1.4.5 Feb 10 07:21:49 well, they should have openly communicated that, and i would have gone bought an android phone a few months ago Feb 10 07:22:00 morning Feb 10 07:22:02 isn't 1.4.5 less optimized and with no hardware acceleration Feb 10 07:22:15 torchie: heh yeah, you'd wonder Feb 10 07:22:54 there really is only so much you can do, before you need to ask yourself, is this actually going to be ok? Feb 10 07:23:05 otherwise fail Feb 10 07:23:08 when you've moved on, i hope you dont come back and troll us Feb 10 07:23:21 same Feb 10 07:23:30 lol Feb 10 07:23:37 ill be here with my pre3, and tab Feb 10 07:23:41 I set a decision date of whether to continue for July 1, when HP will have owned Palm for a year. Looks like we still won't know if they've turned things around by then. Feb 10 07:23:43 yeah, if it's that easy for palm to lose their devs. cool Feb 10 07:23:44 you can go sit in the gulf Feb 10 07:23:57 ;) Feb 10 07:24:16 CTLAdvance: we've been sitting in the gulf for more than a year now Feb 10 07:24:25 how's that gonna shock me ;-) Feb 10 07:24:31 er... was making an oil joke Feb 10 07:24:48 :/ Feb 10 07:26:21 torchie: 1.4.5 is also when they ditched java and used node.js for some things, which apparently the version of node.js uses a lot of RAM.. Feb 10 07:26:37 hmm really, they started that in 1.4.5? Feb 10 07:26:44 torchie: 2.0.0 Feb 10 07:26:58 torchie: I should have said "after 1.4.5 is when" Feb 10 07:27:03 oh Feb 10 07:27:14 I suppose that it may be a bit beefy for the pre 1's ram Feb 10 07:27:36 torchie: also with flash and so on maybe they can't get a good user experience on ~500mhz Feb 10 07:27:45 yeah Feb 10 07:27:47 torchie: again, all i'm asking for was being open with us and esp. with the devs... Feb 10 07:27:47 sure, we can overclock, but they're not primarily thinking of us Feb 10 07:28:04 the whole flash idea was a debacle Feb 10 07:28:06 torchie - did u put flash on your nookcolor Feb 10 07:28:10 destinal Feb 10 07:28:13 adobe flash? Feb 10 07:28:21 yes Feb 10 07:28:21 I don't think they have that for eclair do they Feb 10 07:28:30 CTLAdvance: I haven't tried froyo yet Feb 10 07:28:39 ah yes... Feb 10 07:28:41 * torchie sprint.com Feb 10 07:29:30 flash on pre2 is like butter... once you get used to it Feb 10 07:29:47 is there an 8gb pre2 Feb 10 07:29:55 not sure Feb 10 07:30:13 wait so the pre3 comes in 8gb and 16gb Feb 10 07:30:21 but the pre2 is 16 gigs period? Feb 10 07:30:35 yeah Feb 10 07:30:41 RAGE. Feb 10 07:31:05 :/ Feb 10 07:32:04 upgrade credit goes to $150 on march 1, contract completes on may 1... Feb 10 07:32:04 What was the big database app for Palm OS? Feb 10 07:39:40 i just can't believe it... what bad marketing is that? Feb 10 07:40:55 ? Feb 10 07:40:56 A clever lawyer could probably get up a class-action suit against Sprint. I'm no lawyer, but it seems a good case for breach of contract could be made. Feb 10 07:43:27 what? Feb 10 07:43:33 what did sprint do Feb 10 07:44:10 Sell smartphones, but not offer replacements if/when they break. Feb 10 07:44:45 oh i see Feb 10 07:45:00 If you've invested money and time getting productive on webOS, an Android phone is not a functional replacement. Feb 10 07:45:11 And it's not like replacements were unavailable. Feb 10 07:47:30 well the first pre I got was gently used Feb 10 07:47:47 the sprint in south florida was cool as a cucumber about the two replacements Feb 10 07:48:08 was it two? Feb 10 07:49:03 yeah... then the third one broke and apparently I was out of warranty so here I am with this craigslist pre Feb 10 07:56:05 DougReeder: What did Sprint do? Feb 10 07:57:05 Require people to sign 2-year contracts, but fail to offer functionally equivalent replacements for units that break. Feb 10 07:58:12 Whoa, they aren't offering replacement Pres at this point? Feb 10 07:58:22 Are they still? Feb 10 07:59:10 I assumed they are, but don't know for sure Feb 10 07:59:33 I just assumed so b/c of the scenario you laid out. Feb 10 07:59:40 replacements dont come from sprint Feb 10 07:59:47 the insurance is through a company called asurion Feb 10 07:59:54 or something like that Feb 10 08:00:04 I know they aren't selling them anymore, but seems like you could get replacement Treos long after they stopped selling them. Feb 10 08:00:20 I have heard that you can't get a replacement Pre. I haven't investigated myself. Feb 10 08:00:31 you probably still can through asurion Feb 10 08:01:57 oil: Anytime I've had mine replaced, they just open a new box (I went through 6 Treos 650s over 3 years, P.O.S.). But yeah, for something they don't carry in-store anymore, I'd imagine you can get them from someone else (e.g. Asurion). Feb 10 08:02:24 when i replaced my pre, both times it was through asurion Feb 10 08:02:38 went into the store and they were like "call this number" Feb 10 08:02:41 and handed me a business card Feb 10 08:03:28 If so, then the lawsuit I outlined wouldn't hold up. But I keep hearing that Sprint users can't replace their devices. [shrugs] Feb 10 08:19:06 hello. does the webos 2.0 developer access program mean learning the new Enyo framework ? Feb 10 08:22:46 loic_m: uh, according to the chat here earlier tonight and what was said at the dev event, enyo is the preferred way to go going forward but may not be fully supported in end user devices until 6 months from now when the TouchPad is released Feb 10 08:23:19 Mojo apps will work for the near future. Feb 10 08:23:35 that's what i was guessing Feb 10 08:23:56 but could we already learn how to use Enyo ? Feb 10 08:24:14 even if we cannot use it for real production apps Feb 10 08:24:18 when it's released (tomorrow?), yup Feb 10 08:24:29 loic_m: if you join the early access program, yeah when it's released Feb 10 08:24:41 ok Feb 10 08:24:54 so i should ask to join the early access program Feb 10 08:25:46 thank you ! Feb 10 08:25:55 loic_m: no problem Feb 10 08:29:27 i have to yet put out more money, although i wanted to make money as a developer for apps Feb 10 08:29:38 this is so stupid Feb 10 08:29:56 joetweeply1: how's that? Feb 10 08:30:35 err why is that? Feb 10 08:30:36 well i had the choice what device I will be developing for... bought my pre and was hoping for major updates to be able to make enough money to buy the next gen phones with that Feb 10 08:31:09 i did not get enough money yet because of lack of users and all... i was hoping for webos 2.0 to get more users and go on Feb 10 08:31:27 you can still work and release updates for your app for 1.4.5 Feb 10 08:31:29 now my phone will not be able to handle 2.0 .. so i am forced to yet buy a new phone to develop on that Feb 10 08:31:37 who will buy these anymore? Feb 10 08:31:45 users? Feb 10 08:32:05 joetweeply1: well, palm is planning on some kind of "path", no idea if there'll be a trade-up program or what Feb 10 08:32:18 i don't believe any announcement of them anymore Feb 10 08:32:36 :/ Feb 10 08:32:49 now i am stuck without money to switch to a new platform Feb 10 08:33:03 i won't get back my money on the phone that i bought on the very first day it was available Feb 10 08:33:12 joetweeply1: understandable. at any rate, people here are working on getting 2.0 on pre whether or not Palm will supply official support for it Feb 10 08:33:30 well will I be able to use it normally here in germany? Feb 10 08:33:34 no idea whether that will be possible for sure, but some promising leads Feb 10 08:33:39 will i still be able to access the app store? Feb 10 08:34:02 joetweeply1: unknown Feb 10 08:34:27 it is even hard enough to develop for the pre on linux... heck webos IS unix based, still you can't compile PDK apps here Feb 10 08:35:40 joetweeply1: have you tried http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/PDK_on_Linux ? Feb 10 08:36:41 mh not yet... still there is no official support, so if my app does NOT work for whatever reasons, i am left alone Feb 10 08:36:58 i know this is just whining.. but i don't see how i can afford to work any more on webos Feb 10 08:37:03 although i really like the os Feb 10 08:37:27 true. you raise some good points. Feb 10 08:37:28 can't afford staying... can't afford leaving Feb 10 08:38:52 The profitability of developing for webOS is in doubt. It may attract only developers who program for sheer love. Feb 10 08:40:19 can't afford love Feb 10 08:40:30 * oil programs for webos because i know javascript, and its the main language of the platform Feb 10 08:41:10 being able to write your own software for the computer you carry around all day that has connection to the internet is freaking awesome Feb 10 08:41:29 true that Feb 10 08:41:40 i've got a day job which pays the bills Feb 10 08:42:54 http://twitter.com/#!/unwiredben/status/35618538727153664 Feb 10 08:43:11 i can't believe how this strikes me.. but all my hopes for getting some money out of developing apps... crushed Feb 10 08:43:52 Amateurs contribute many valuable apps, but the powerful apps that tie users to a platform are usually produced by commercial developers. Feb 10 08:45:35 oil: hmm, back and forward buttons at the bottom? Feb 10 08:45:44 hey, at least its at the bottom? Feb 10 08:46:01 Useable, but lame. Feb 10 08:46:03 i hope this was sarcasm... because i don't seem to like the path that webos is going by that Feb 10 08:46:09 they really should have done gesture area all the way around like rim did Feb 10 08:46:37 joetweeply1: no rewrite for enyo? Feb 10 08:46:57 what do you mean oil? Feb 10 08:46:58 does pre3 have a gesture area? Feb 10 08:47:09 destinal: yeah Feb 10 08:47:28 joetweeply1: for the pad and pre3? Feb 10 08:47:41 I wonder if pre3 will ever run webos 3.0, in which case the back / forward buttons seem sillly (unless he meant just on tablets) Feb 10 08:47:42 you can dev with emulator im sure Feb 10 08:47:46 or just a chrome browser Feb 10 08:48:10 well you can develop... but you can't test properly without the devices at hands Feb 10 08:48:22 i had to learn that the hard way with the pixi Feb 10 08:48:37 hm Feb 10 08:48:38 joetweeply1: you can't test properly in the emulator? Feb 10 08:48:53 no... you don't have the accelerometer Feb 10 08:49:03 joetweeply1: heh, well I have ideas on how to solve that Feb 10 08:49:09 then the environment is different Feb 10 08:49:10 but yeah for now it's an issue Feb 10 08:49:26 my app did work for the pixi emulator... but not on pixi devices Feb 10 08:49:37 so no.. you can't Feb 10 08:49:43 :( Feb 10 08:51:33 and if it were possible... as a developer you learn not to push out without having it tested in real life environment Feb 10 08:51:45 this does not apply only to phones... it applies to anything Feb 10 08:51:53 * oil does test on-device Feb 10 08:52:03 but a lot of my early coding was all on emulator Feb 10 08:53:21 IIRC, there were developers in Europe who developed location-based apps solely in the emulator and published to the app catalog without ever having seen a real device. Feb 10 08:53:41 did they work? :p Feb 10 08:53:48 you betcha Feb 10 08:53:56 risky way to go Feb 10 08:54:26 and you can send an ipk to someone with a device to test Feb 10 08:54:41 do you think developers on other platforms test on every single device and os release variant before they publish? Feb 10 08:54:57 on android they would need like 800 phones haha Feb 10 08:55:42 no oil... on android you just need the phone that has all the things you use in your app because the underlying system is identical Feb 10 08:56:19 hey lemketron Feb 10 08:56:23 and yeah.. you could give it to someone to test it... but if this is no developer, you will have fun with the communication Feb 10 08:57:05 I'm sure there's an IRC channel somewhere where dev-savvy people hang out ;-) Feb 10 08:57:09 hey rod... (I gotta get home before I'm too tired to drive...) Feb 10 08:58:04 lemketron: Great day for webOS hardware. Congratulate whoever decided to leak the bad news on a day of media overload so it wouldn't be noticed by the press ;) Feb 10 08:58:10 venefyxatu: are you a developer? Feb 10 08:59:26 I'm fiddling around, but "developer" would be an overstatement. For now :-) Feb 10 08:59:54 Yes, it was a pretty exciting (if long) day... 'nite all. Feb 10 09:00:04 later Feb 10 09:00:13 lemketron: safe drive home Feb 10 09:00:15 I've just posted to my blog, on Transitions: http://reeder29.livejournal.com Feb 10 09:00:25 just let me say that... your theory sounds good in theory... but it is though to develop without a device at hands and it will get you in trouble venefyxatu Feb 10 09:00:44 joetweeply1: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Lumberjack Feb 10 09:00:49 have them install that :) Feb 10 09:01:32 cool app oil Feb 10 09:01:47 :) Feb 10 09:01:51 I know you can only develop up to a certain point before you need to actually run it on the device, but yeah, Lumberjack is a great way to get at logs :-) Feb 10 09:02:27 DougReeder: +1 (tweeted) Feb 10 09:02:27 joetweeply1: just tell them to start it up, then run your app, then email you the logs Feb 10 09:02:43 Thanks, rwhitby Feb 10 09:04:01 i get your point.. i really do... but I just can't do that, pushing out applications I did not experience on my own on a real device... it is possible but goes against my ethics and quality expectations Feb 10 09:05:03 joetweeply1: alpha and beta testing is hard, but is possible. We do it with all the WebOS Internals apps and kernels. Feb 10 09:05:15 blehh, proxy doesn't like livejournal ... weekend-read it is :p Feb 10 09:05:33 joetweeply1: but I do agree with you that the personal experience of how one's app runs on the real device cannot be replaced by any number of third-party testers Feb 10 09:06:20 so sad... i just can't afford to upgrade to webos 2.0 ... lost a developer here Feb 10 09:07:54 :/ Feb 10 09:08:20 even worse.. i can't even afford to switch Feb 10 09:09:28 it's not that bad... i am not broke, just can't develop for webos on my budget anymore Feb 10 09:11:13 I have blogged! The Internet has been informed! Now I can go to bed! Feb 10 09:11:41 night DougReeder Feb 10 09:11:55 * oil is also going to sleep Feb 10 09:12:17 night oil Feb 10 09:12:27 thanks for the ear Feb 10 09:12:31 to all others here too Feb 10 09:12:35 g'night :-) Feb 10 09:51:25 morning! getting a bit frustrated with the list widget, wondered if anyone is around to help? :) Feb 10 09:53:46 still developing for your brick? Feb 10 09:53:57 yes indeed ;) Feb 10 09:55:08 well i worked with it a while ago... what is your question? Feb 10 09:55:21 well, here's the forum thread: Feb 10 09:55:21 https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=54865#p54865 Feb 10 09:57:26 oh okay... this is out of my experience with the list... sorry can't help you on that Feb 10 09:57:52 no problem - thanks anyway :) Feb 10 10:59:54 http://ws.palm.com/WebOsChecker/serialnumberinitial.htm <- don't have my palm pre (european gsm) around, just bought a new android device this morning. but maybe someone could check and let me know the outcome Feb 10 11:00:15 someone with a european gsm palm that is :-) Feb 10 11:01:22 'underneath the battery' ! Feb 10 11:01:50 means: I have to turn it off ! Feb 10 11:02:33 says: Your device is alredy running webOS2. Feb 10 11:02:49 KittyHello: lol, which palm do you have? Feb 10 11:03:07 pre2 Feb 10 11:03:23 Jabo: Device Information app will also tell you Feb 10 11:03:25 I posted it to 2 others, with a Palm Pre (1) Feb 10 11:03:45 KittyHello: thanks a lot Feb 10 11:06:00 muesli: just tried (european gsm pre), won't support 2.0 Feb 10 11:07:14 "great". i guess i won't regret my decision to get an android today then Feb 10 11:07:23 i wondering how much of a joke this page really is Feb 10 11:07:42 has anyone found a serial yet that returns "Yeah, 2.0 is coming to your device!" Feb 10 11:07:47 * venefyxatu got an android and regretted it :p Feb 10 11:09:01 hmm... if the 2 is already running it, and the pre doesn't support it, pre+ or one of the pixies is all that's left I guess? Feb 10 11:14:36 neither my pre+ nor pixi+ supports 2.0 according to that page. Feb 10 11:18:13 ok Feb 10 11:18:26 so that page seems to be just a joke, really Feb 10 11:19:12 it would be cool if it had a "Buy a new device - go to our shop" link, then :P Feb 10 11:19:34 They do as Apple does - keep old devices out of updates to force a new purchase Feb 10 11:19:37 true shame Feb 10 11:19:52 KittyHello: er, apple supported all their devices for 2.5+ years easily Feb 10 11:20:10 palm declares a 16 months old sdk as obsolete before the successor is even out Feb 10 11:21:02 well, they're faster then. Honestly, I really wish there way 2.0 for everyone, because it has great features and I hope the app catalog will grow soon. Feb 10 11:21:15 but if they leave older devices out, that's a big bad thing Feb 10 11:21:16 i don't know about you... but any other sdk / api / platform i've used so far declared stuff obsolete months or even years after a successor was out Feb 10 11:22:01 a work mate bought a phone with windows mobile 6.5 a month ago... Feb 10 11:22:01 err... how obsolete is obsolete? As in "forget everything you knew and start over?" Feb 10 11:22:45 KittyHello: well that's just retarded ;-) Feb 10 11:23:26 then again i'd say the same about anyone who's about to buy a palm right now Feb 10 11:23:37 :-) Feb 10 11:40:30 Do I understand correctly that Pre and Pre Plus owners do not get webos 2.0 at all? Feb 10 11:41:17 unclear, I heard that it will not get there "over the air" but perhaps via a pc based update Feb 10 11:41:57 is there a fix to turn the GPS off again? Feb 10 11:42:14 Jabo: makes sense with all the repartitioning but why they don't have real info on http://palm.com/webos-info is really bad Feb 10 11:42:58 Did they give a release date for 2.0? I remember there being an anouncement about spring 2011.. Feb 10 11:43:09 np Feb 10 11:43:12 no* Feb 10 11:45:33 hotdp: directed at me? Feb 10 11:46:53 Jabo: according to engadget and mr. rubenstein it won't happen at all now Feb 10 11:51:41 I just got a friend the pre plus.. and she will not be happy when I tell her that I told her to buy a phone that is not getting any updates thus no flash etc.. Feb 10 11:52:27 probably no newer games.. this is super sucky that a device which is 2 months old is not getting any updates anymore.. Feb 10 11:52:47 I belive 2.0 will come Feb 10 11:52:50 but not OTA Feb 10 11:52:53 but as a doctor Feb 10 11:56:35 that would be cool Feb 10 11:56:49 maybe they have problems with ota? Because of the size? Feb 10 12:00:21 something with big chances in the DB Feb 10 12:00:35 so OTA was to much a problem Feb 10 12:00:41 more then they thought Feb 10 12:01:20 hotdp: no rubinstein said that no updates for pre pre2 are planed Feb 10 12:01:30 not even doctor Feb 10 12:01:39 1 min Feb 10 12:01:47 give me a link where he says NO doctor? Feb 10 12:02:00 precentral Feb 10 12:02:08 2nd one with update Feb 10 12:03:06 I see Feb 10 12:03:15 But i think its strange Feb 10 12:03:33 Maybe there is already a doctor for early access? i dont know.. Feb 10 12:03:44 Just think it ssound strange... Feb 10 12:04:02 But a good discount is also nice. But VERY bad that they told people it would come and then it dont Feb 10 12:04:07 is there a possibility to make a local copy of all available patches in the moment. I fear that upgrades of patches wont work with my "old" device Feb 10 12:06:25 hotdp: there is a doctor in early access - but it's not very usable in daily use Feb 10 12:06:38 ok Feb 10 12:07:30 hotdp: there won't be a huge discount - pre is cheap on ebay - and pixis were sold for 50$ without contract last weeks... Feb 10 12:07:40 oki Feb 10 12:07:49 thomaschaaf what did the pre cost for you? Feb 10 12:08:39 in germany you get a pre for EUR 149 (www.pearl.de) Feb 10 12:08:44 new one Feb 10 12:08:53 my only hope is a polished 1.5 webOS-Version with exhibition and just type and some bug fixes Feb 10 12:11:37 KittyHello: says 199 euros Feb 10 12:11:52 wait Feb 10 12:12:08 exhibition will not happen in less then 2.1 Feb 10 12:12:39 http://www.pearl.de/a-GLD9357-4090.shtml Feb 10 12:13:35 interesting, that's the link i got from the search results; http://www.pearl.de/a-PX9357-4090.shtml?query=palm+pre Feb 10 12:13:42 hehe Feb 10 12:14:02 it's hidden and only for people who bought a lot there. But the link works fine if you use it. Feb 10 12:14:03 if i just have bought a Pre and i will not miss 2.0 i would contact Palm and complain. Feb 10 12:14:53 especially when there's so little change in the hardware from pre to pre2 Feb 10 12:15:08 lol? Feb 10 12:15:20 what changed? Feb 10 12:15:21 the cpu is nearly twice as fast Feb 10 12:15:28 and that is importent Feb 10 12:15:30 it's overclocked, no? Feb 10 12:15:41 someone told me they can clock the pre to 1GHz Feb 10 12:15:46 lol they can Feb 10 12:15:54 my old pre - did run 1ghz Feb 10 12:16:03 but it is still not as fast as my pre2 Feb 10 12:16:47 ah Feb 10 12:17:04 is the pre slow? I mean, does it feel slower compared to the pre2? Feb 10 12:17:09 alot Feb 10 12:17:17 ah Feb 10 12:17:24 the whole fell of the Pre was not good very plastic Feb 10 12:17:25 is the pre still a good device? Feb 10 12:17:30 the Pre 2 is much more solid Feb 10 12:17:46 you mean the keyboard slider? Feb 10 12:17:53 No the whole feeling Feb 10 12:18:01 its much more plastic on the pre Feb 10 12:18:12 my pre2 is plastic Feb 10 12:18:13 the Pre 2 is glass and heavyer Feb 10 12:18:24 the display? Feb 10 12:18:27 yer Feb 10 12:18:42 I see Feb 10 12:18:49 does the pre scratch? Feb 10 12:19:07 pixi RIP - i hoped to see a Pixi 2 - with fast processor and gorilla glas - but the veer is crap (imho) Feb 10 12:19:43 KittyHello: what device do you have? Feb 10 12:19:49 a pre2 Feb 10 12:20:04 Why all this Pre q ? Feb 10 12:20:07 arctic-ice: still think pixi is crap would have loved a device with a horizontal keyboard Feb 10 12:20:15 the veer is 320x400? Feb 10 12:20:36 yes, the keyboard is too small for many with big thumbs Feb 10 12:20:56 I guess the pre3 tried changing that Feb 10 12:21:08 i loved the pixi concept - but it was far too slow - i hoped for 2.0 - but the hope is gone now... Feb 10 12:22:03 one thing apple is doing right at least they are not fucking the people who bought their product a year ago (with the iPhone) Feb 10 12:22:15 I think the pre2 is perfect size. The 320x400 screen is a bit limiting Feb 10 12:22:36 they did let iPhone 1 go but that is 3 years old so I think that is okay but a contract is usually 2 or 3 years Feb 10 12:22:49 thomasschaaf: sad but true.... Feb 10 12:23:03 still a nice device Feb 10 12:23:10 the left 2G _and_ 3G out Feb 10 12:25:17 my pre original is now 14 months old and I am not even getting updates anymore with the current situation Feb 10 12:26:13 i've a pixi wich is not 6month old - and 2.0 was promised when i bought it Feb 10 12:27:05 just give it back if the person who sold it to you told that to you and you have one person who saw you under german and american law that is not just Feb 10 12:27:29 if they promised you and it's not coming that's false advertising Feb 10 12:27:40 yer thats true Feb 10 12:27:42 you can complain Feb 10 12:30:19 perhaps i'll really try that - but i don't want my money back - i want a USEABLE phone Feb 10 12:30:35 if you have another person you have a case for a lawsuite which I do think is appropriate.. Feb 10 12:31:12 probably a combined law suite against hp will come sooner or later.. Feb 10 12:31:27 they'll all get pre3s and some money :/ Feb 10 12:31:59 yeah, and a tablet on top! Feb 10 12:32:48 that's good for the few people but not really the solution I would anticipate.. I don't understand why it's not possible since I obviously have a pre (original) with webOS 2 on it.. Feb 10 12:33:29 but is the early access doctor really useable in daily use? Feb 10 12:35:09 arctic-ice: just like webOS 1.4.5 it sometimes feels a bit sluggish but not worse than the original.. Feb 10 12:36:23 the thing is webos 2.0 was developed on pre (original) Feb 10 13:21:15 hi Feb 10 13:22:21 hi Feb 10 13:22:53 hello Feb 10 13:48:06 what they delayed enyo too? ... so pitiful Feb 10 14:08:58 joetweeply1: later today Feb 10 14:09:13 ya and only for early access ppl Feb 10 14:09:27 i don't believe that Feb 10 14:09:37 LOL Feb 10 14:09:50 its early access, that make perfect sense Feb 10 14:09:54 as its a preview Feb 10 14:10:06 sign up for early acces and your problem is solved Feb 10 14:10:10 it costs nothing Feb 10 14:52:07 morning, all Feb 10 14:52:27 morning! Feb 10 14:52:34 good morning Feb 10 14:52:49 HattCzech_work: good afternoon ;) Feb 10 14:53:14 hi, would have guessed "morning" in your timezone considering the czech in the nick ,-) Feb 10 14:53:23 afternoon... where do you live? Feb 10 14:53:39 german Feb 10 14:53:44 heheh, yeah Feb 10 14:53:48 okay Feb 10 14:54:43 hm, didnt notice it was afternoon here already O_O Feb 10 14:55:39 what's more: here it's 7 minutes to cookie time Feb 10 14:59:35 simonmaddox: That's the spirit ! Feb 10 15:06:52 howdy all Feb 10 15:12:54 did someone say cookies? :) Feb 10 15:15:30 cookies are gone, only waffles left now :-) Feb 10 15:16:04 those are only an acceptable replacement with real maple syrup ;) Feb 10 15:19:38 hehehe, can't help you with that, sorry :-) Feb 10 15:22:21 now this place is a little more active - anyone know what im doing wrong? https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=54865#p54865 Feb 10 15:37:17 simonmaddox: why do you want to have both in a list? Feb 10 15:38:28 simonmaddox: you could make a div:
#{-replacement}
and then have the formatter insert either the textfield or the listselector div Feb 10 15:40:44 sugardave: well, ive got it inserting the correct widget Feb 10 15:40:55 and when it's a listselector, tapping it shows the choices Feb 10 15:41:11 but it doesnt actually put the selected one into the row once it's been chosen Feb 10 15:41:43 hmmm Feb 10 15:46:26 Is there a video player for xvids and move files for webos? Feb 10 15:48:11 Mkv files Feb 10 15:49:36 marss, someone was working on an mplayer port, but there were issues and I stopped following what was happening. should be able to find the posts on the precentral forums though Feb 10 15:50:23 Palm really should have added it Feb 10 15:51:30 ugggg... stupid ota tv works... Feb 10 15:57:30 I can't remember...did they tell us at DevDay that we don't HAVE to use Ares to write Enyo apps? Feb 10 16:04:31 sugardave: yes Feb 10 16:05:01 yay Feb 10 16:05:46 my FF+Java, Ares hates it and I'm not cool enough to fix it or something Feb 10 16:09:17 sugardave: when will we ahve to start writting Enyo apps? Feb 10 16:09:27 for 2.1? Feb 10 16:10:11 how goes the disappointed masses? Feb 10 16:10:35 LoneStar99: I don't think you HAVE to at any point, as it looks like (from Ben on twitter) that even webOS 3.0 will let Mojo apps run Feb 10 16:10:41 somehow without a gesture area Feb 10 16:10:55 sugardave: oh ok Feb 10 16:11:00 that is cool Feb 10 16:11:29 maik: well, my F5 button is alive...barely Feb 10 16:12:21 sugardave: heh Feb 10 16:14:44 sugardave: is it cold in austin right now? Feb 10 16:15:41 yeah, it froze last night, but supposed to get up to the 50s today, I think Feb 10 16:16:07 why did they even drop the gesture area? it is great Feb 10 16:16:14 k, in brownsville and it is was like 80 and in 2 hours went down to 43 Feb 10 16:16:17 they are completely crushing webos Feb 10 16:30:55 why do they hate us? :( Feb 10 16:31:15 we've been so good to them Feb 10 16:32:01 I want to know what this "path to 2" is before I assume I"m hated Feb 10 16:32:12 but if it costs money... then yes they hate us Feb 10 16:34:27 maybe they're punishing us for not selling enough apps Feb 10 16:37:27 this is just not right Feb 10 16:37:59 i have one last app 95% ready to go... now i don't even know if it is worth putting it into the catalog Feb 10 16:38:42 of course it is Feb 10 16:38:52 you'll still have all of the existing webos userbase Feb 10 16:38:59 all three of us Feb 10 16:39:19 hell, you wrote it for all 3 of us in the first place... Feb 10 16:39:28 good point Feb 10 16:39:43 simonmaddox, still waiting to see how badly HP is going to alienate almost that entire userbase Feb 10 16:39:46 heh Feb 10 16:40:10 i don't think any single one of you 3 are willing to pay 99cent on my little space shooter anyways Feb 10 16:40:51 i will ... if it will be available in germany :-p ! Feb 10 16:40:57 RagingMind: i'd be amazed if all of a sudden, everyone stopped using webos 1.x because they couldnt upgrade to 2.x Feb 10 16:41:03 sure it has been developed in germany ;) Feb 10 16:42:03 my game is avaliable in Germany. Even with German texts :P Feb 10 16:42:34 http://www.precentral.net/dr-shiver Feb 10 16:42:38 can someone provide the link to enyo preview please? Feb 10 16:43:35 apparently it's being released sometime today SF time Feb 10 16:43:55 (ie. not yet) Feb 10 16:44:06 webOS_dev: um, we're waiting for that Feb 10 16:44:21 I was at the event yesterday night when it was announced that it will go live by today if not yesterday itself. Feb 10 16:44:35 just for the early access program? Feb 10 16:44:41 they announced that it was ready last night, but that was a mistake Feb 10 16:45:31 s/ready/ready for early access developers/ Feb 10 16:45:55 ok, thanks Feb 10 16:46:44 "Where's Enyo?" - http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11164 Feb 10 16:47:51 were there any reactions/question/blames from the developers at yesterday's develper event reagarding to the "OTA news"? Feb 10 16:48:47 i bet they were just ignored Feb 10 16:49:14 I didn't see the blurb until after the event was over, so not sure of the timing Feb 10 16:49:50 the current situation is a pity Feb 10 16:51:01 there's not only fragmentation between the developers (most can't access sdk >= 1.4.5) but also between the users (most can't access webos > 1.4.5) Feb 10 16:51:03 * sugardave summons Chuqui, the Great and Powerful. Feb 10 16:51:30 thx sugardave Feb 10 16:51:50 shh, I need to concentrate Feb 10 16:52:00 summoning is hard work Feb 10 16:52:25 hah Feb 10 16:52:28 lol Feb 10 16:52:36 the forum is flooded with "is enyo ready" posts :( Feb 10 16:53:12 your summoning may not work, sugardave Feb 10 16:53:17 chuqui needs sleep Feb 10 16:53:26 can it wake him from his slumber? Feb 10 16:54:41 I feel in my weakened state that you are correct....I have failed :( Feb 10 17:03:20 chuqui the great and hungover? Feb 10 17:15:27 tweet from chuqui Feb 10 17:15:30 he lives Feb 10 17:28:14 so any rumors on what this "something special" is for us Pre- owners? Feb 10 17:33:07 i bet it's 15% discount Feb 10 17:33:19 that you could also get otherwise Feb 10 17:33:24 "Die Todgeweihten grüßen Euch." Feb 10 17:34:10 maik: you get a free kick in the balls with every eye poke Feb 10 17:34:32 sweet! Feb 10 17:35:02 I'm about to make Enyo happen for eap, as it is soon to be naplunch time and sure as shit it will become available while I'm asleep Feb 10 17:35:27 right... problem is, i'm not in the eap yet Feb 10 17:35:33 join Feb 10 17:35:35 joetweeply1: what's 15% discount? Feb 10 17:35:36 go now Feb 10 17:35:45 then again, i can't afford another device to buy to proper test and develop for it anyways Feb 10 17:35:51 no Enyo yet? Feb 10 17:35:54 i wrote the mail sugardave... Feb 10 17:36:40 MetaView: I can neither confirm nor deny that there is no Enyo yet, or something Feb 10 17:36:43 i'm stuck... if my last app won't make enough money for a new device i can't develop for webos anymore Feb 10 17:36:49 hey, Adora asked for feedback from devs in the comments of my post http://funkatron.com/site/comments/thoughts-on-the-hp-think-beyond-webos-event/ Feb 10 17:37:14 joetweeply1: that's not necessarily true, plenty of apps written by people who only had the emulator to work with Feb 10 17:37:30 funkatron: hehehhehheheeh Feb 10 17:37:46 joetweeply1: are your app sales down the tube as well? Feb 10 17:37:56 may be true sugardave ... but i'm not comfortable with that... not having tested it myself Feb 10 17:38:08 I tried developing spaz just on emu Feb 10 17:38:11 hoooweeee Feb 10 17:38:18 well pandora, my app sales are down long ago... that's why i made this new app Feb 10 17:38:20 joetweeply1 what app did you make ? Feb 10 17:38:33 a little space dodging game Feb 10 17:38:41 my first game at all Feb 10 17:38:47 whats the name ? Feb 10 17:38:49 twoxy Feb 10 17:39:03 sugardave: got it, thx Feb 10 17:39:15 joetweeply1: is the new app doing much better? Feb 10 17:39:30 i have 3 apps, and they're all total losses now, as far as sales are concerned Feb 10 17:39:32 it's not out yet... just need new graphics and it's done Feb 10 17:39:42 funkatron: pretty much spot on there. Feb 10 17:39:53 funkatron: it's kind of depressing Feb 10 17:39:56 wow Feb 10 17:40:04 so you guys need another device to put your apps on Feb 10 17:40:09 * Josef_B hate HP Feb 10 17:40:14 s/hate/hates Feb 10 17:40:18 I made my second best month in january, but that's because I missed the first month Feb 10 17:40:38 yup... Josef_B ... without the update to the current device i am forced to quit developing for it Feb 10 17:40:53 yup, start over... i'm certainly not rewriting 3 apps that have poor sales on a device I won't see for a while, and are still behind the technology curve Feb 10 17:40:55 why? you can still develope for Mojo Feb 10 17:41:23 what about pdk? Feb 10 17:41:26 Ben Combee even wrote how they will run on the pad Feb 10 17:41:44 PDK runs on Pre2, or? Feb 10 17:42:00 dunno... i don't have one.. not available and no money Feb 10 17:42:03 if only they would fix the SDL issue on Pixi Feb 10 17:42:19 yup... that kicked me hard too with my third app Feb 10 17:42:29 so much for developing without the device at hand Feb 10 17:42:44 that's a really stupid thing, I have 2 apps, which I can#t release for Pixi, because of this Feb 10 17:43:10 I'm too lazy to write the OpenGL layer to make them compatible Feb 10 17:43:26 same here... it's just too much work Feb 10 17:43:42 it's kind of hard to keep with it, we can easily jump to android and have better distribution and devices etc etc etc. so why are we trying to stick with HP? Feb 10 17:43:52 i'm a long long time palm fanboy, btw. :( Feb 10 17:44:03 webos is just great, that's why Feb 10 17:44:08 it's true Feb 10 17:44:12 they should make it open source Feb 10 17:44:12 Because you can't sale much on Android? Feb 10 17:44:14 but, from a business standpoint? Feb 10 17:44:28 seems to be a decisive time for webOS... Feb 10 17:44:31 from a business standpoint i have put all my stakes to palm.. did not work out Feb 10 17:44:33 Ppl are dissapointed from Android sales Feb 10 17:44:42 switch to iOS? :) Feb 10 17:44:52 i plan on switching to iphone in the long run... when there is money for it Feb 10 17:45:09 but as i put a lot of money in the pre... i am stuck with that right now Feb 10 17:45:15 joetweeply1: same here Feb 10 17:45:23 On iOS at least the Users a willing to pay, but with such a crowdy AppStore is hard to get noticed Feb 10 17:45:23 i mean, about palm not working out Feb 10 17:45:27 i'm not going iOS Feb 10 17:45:47 I'll be going verizon/android in the next few weeks Feb 10 17:45:50 from sprint/pre Feb 10 17:45:52 MetaView .. yeah but i bet sales won't be worse there than mine were on the pre anyways Feb 10 17:46:16 i'm getting 3-5 downloads a day across 3 apps in palm Feb 10 17:46:18 ouch Feb 10 17:46:22 well rated apps too Feb 10 17:46:35 pandora--: doing updates from time to time? Feb 10 17:46:47 joetweeply1: well, you have to find out... Feb 10 17:46:58 yeah but i can't right now Feb 10 17:47:07 i stopped doing updates after observing that it only resulted in a 5-10% gain in downloads for only a few days Feb 10 17:47:16 stuff just gets lost in the appcatalog Feb 10 17:47:36 with so many things (junk) floating in every day, a good app or a good update gets buried Feb 10 17:47:47 hm Feb 10 17:47:52 pandora--: it's because we're masochists - http://bit.ly/dWJDj6 Feb 10 17:48:55 pandora--: which are your apps? just asking. Feb 10 17:49:18 sugardave: my feelings exactly Feb 10 17:49:29 MetaView: Yalm iHate411 Feb 10 17:49:37 and a less rated one iBored Feb 10 17:50:04 (NCave, LLC) Feb 10 17:55:47 I remember telling precentral forum that old devices wouldn't be updated. They laughed Feb 10 17:56:40 heh Feb 10 17:57:12 hysterically? Feb 10 17:58:03 They said palm said they will be updated. I see no sense in updating such a slow device as the original pre. Feb 10 17:58:21 Sucks for developers though Feb 10 17:58:54 yeah... Feb 10 18:03:26 ok, dinner time, bbl Feb 10 18:23:20 before you even ask... WORKING ON IT. HONEST. Feb 10 18:23:41 Are 1.4 apps compatible with 2.x pre3 Feb 10 18:26:10 working on what? :-p Feb 10 18:26:34 I was going to ask "how's your head" ;) Feb 10 18:33:20 working on what? Feb 10 19:01:22 hey guys Feb 10 19:01:26 I met Chuq yesterday! Feb 10 19:02:49 hgow was he? Feb 10 19:03:25 he is a real person? Feb 10 19:04:10 Lies! He's a bot at Palm HQ. Feb 10 19:06:28 Spaz: Now on your printer! Feb 10 19:06:50 I love you chuqui Feb 10 19:07:10 I am not a bot. Feb 10 19:07:12 I am not a bot. Feb 10 19:07:15 I am not a bot. Feb 10 19:07:18 (oops. need to reboot) Feb 10 19:07:21 reboot him! Feb 10 19:07:26 :) Feb 10 19:17:49 Chuqi -- You recovered a bit yet? Ready for the beatings to continue? Feb 10 19:18:00 You going to post a BLOG POST today about anything? Feb 10 19:18:15 ooops ment chuqui ... sorry Feb 10 19:19:11 rick-work: fire away. Feb 10 19:19:27 I'm working on the enyo stuff, and going through the forums. getting it all done as fast as I can. Feb 10 19:23:47 I still love your chuqui Feb 10 19:25:27 chuqui: have you heard alot from people who are mad for not getting the promissed 2.0 ? Feb 10 19:26:10 we've definitely heard from folks. we knew we would. Feb 10 19:26:38 yer. I do understand them :/ Feb 10 19:26:53 I think they fell betrayed Feb 10 19:27:22 let's let the chuq do one thing at a time. I'm sure this is outside of his hands 8) Feb 10 19:28:06 i understand them, too. Feb 10 19:28:42 funkatron: has nothing to do with that Feb 10 19:28:53 just asking if they heard it and knew it Feb 10 19:28:57 but ... why is there no official announcement? something like "sry folks, we worked hard but 2.x will not run on the old devices ... " ... just something on enga., p|c, ... Feb 10 19:28:57 and he answered fine Feb 10 19:29:00 that's right, I had nothing to do with it Feb 10 19:29:07 i am sure the bot can multitask ;) Feb 10 19:29:58 true Feb 10 19:30:02 he is dual-core Feb 10 20:00:58 * sugardave wills chuqui to stop answering emails and posting in threads. Feb 10 20:03:10 quoting Lisa Brewster on Funkatron's blog: Enyo will only be available on the TouchPad at first, but you’ll be able to leverage most of your work when Enyo comes to phones later this year. Feb 10 20:03:16 that's new I think Feb 10 20:03:35 yeah Feb 10 20:03:56 I suspect you'd be able to run enyo on other devices, but it wouldn't be pre-installed (considering you can run it in a browser) Feb 10 20:05:29 Since Enyo appears to be platform agnostic (it runs in bare-Chrome), it seems like at a minimum you'd be able to package it up with your app if it isn't pre-installed yet. Feb 10 20:05:37 yes Feb 10 20:05:47 that's my suspicion as well Feb 10 20:05:56 for now, WE JUST DON'T KNOW Feb 10 20:06:06 let's make some stuff up anyway Feb 10 20:06:49 well whatever you will be making up... you bet hp will crush it in the groin Feb 10 20:07:19 I hear that, in the wrong hands, Enyo can be used to kill puppies Feb 10 20:07:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1LWhNpTJU Feb 10 20:16:38 Say Pre 3, three times very fast. Feb 10 20:16:43 man.. why no gesture area on the pad and instead make a different os version with an emulator... that sucks for the inhouse programmers of hp too Feb 10 20:17:00 why? Feb 10 20:17:27 I've read something about screenbutton on the tab Feb 10 20:17:31 because they will have to test all the different versions of the osses for everything Feb 10 20:17:33 tab/pad Feb 10 20:17:44 yeah.. still it is an emulator that runs on different code Feb 10 20:17:56 the gesture area is replaced, on a pad the area doesn#t make that much sense Feb 10 20:18:07 so to properly assure quality the testing will be much more work for them Feb 10 20:18:08 how would you like to use it... Feb 10 20:18:29 why not have one gesture area on each side Feb 10 20:19:19 i wonder if this whole enyo talk existed before hp came on stage Feb 10 20:19:29 joetweeply1 yes. Feb 10 20:19:31 this just sounds like a totally different path Feb 10 20:19:44 enyo is a direct outgrowth of ares which is Matt McN's baby Feb 10 20:19:44 will they dump ares? Feb 10 20:19:57 it IS a totally different path, but it comes from two things. Feb 10 20:20:10 1) Global listeners are memory leaks waiting to happen. Feb 10 20:20:25 2) Resolution independent coding in mojo is just impossible. Feb 10 20:21:00 will there be good documentation on enyo? Feb 10 20:21:16 especially stuff about porting and differences to mojo? Feb 10 20:21:20 Matt was working on that BEFORE the hp buyout, Enyo is basically "native ares" it's the ares interface taken to the library stage rather than being translated into mojo Feb 10 20:21:23 and still.. how about pdk and hybrid apps? Feb 10 20:21:46 joetweeply1 -- you won't want to translate. You will want to completely re-write your UI in enyo... really. Feb 10 20:22:15 okay that... but you will have to learn how to do that right? Feb 10 20:22:23 PDK is PDK. and PDK on tab hasn't really been addressed. Hybrid we know is not going to be allowed until 2.1 ships on devices. Feb 10 20:22:54 joetweeply1 download the enyo starter kit, look at the code and start tearing the sample programs apart. I think you'll like it. It's REALLY a nice framework Feb 10 20:22:55 wait... there could be a possibility for no pdk on tab? Feb 10 20:23:03 no, that's not what I said Feb 10 20:23:07 where can i get that? Feb 10 20:23:15 The enyo sample code? Feb 10 20:23:21 yup Feb 10 20:23:36 are you already in the Developer pre-release program? Feb 10 20:23:56 nope... just applied this morning Feb 10 20:24:17 kind of as a last straw Feb 10 20:24:23 then, you wait until chuqui sends you the magic "you're in" email, and you'll get that stuff. Feb 10 20:24:45 mhkay Feb 10 20:24:45 As a last straw? The developer pre release program is critical to anyone who is serious about being a webOS dev Feb 10 20:24:50 i hope there will be enough documentation Feb 10 20:24:54 how ELSE do you expect to keep up on what's new? Feb 10 20:25:06 last straw of what? Feb 10 20:25:10 joetweeply1 documentation will be thin on the ground to start. Feb 10 20:25:14 well before all this 2.0 you did not need this extra pre release program Feb 10 20:25:17 but there will be SAMPLE CODE which is better. Feb 10 20:25:42 joe, are you NUTS? How about when Pixi was released? How about changes from 1.1 to 1.2 to etc etc? Feb 10 20:26:07 not being in the pre-release program is shooting yourself in the foot. Feb 10 20:26:08 there was no early access back then Feb 10 20:26:16 joetweeply1 there was. Feb 10 20:26:19 uhhh Feb 10 20:26:34 I was in the dev program in december 2008 Feb 10 20:26:40 so yeah, there was early access Feb 10 20:26:42 nodnod Feb 10 20:26:53 okay then i really was blind Feb 10 20:26:57 there has ALWAYS been early access. Feb 10 20:27:07 it just did not seem to be necessary back then Feb 10 20:27:19 what apps do you develop Joe? Feb 10 20:27:39 first two were mojo games with canvas... then a pdk app... second one currently in the finishing line Feb 10 20:27:49 jj Feb 10 20:27:51 kk Feb 10 20:28:11 well, you have some time. Get the email, download the enyo stuff and think about it. Feb 10 20:28:29 and remember that Lisa said that "enyo will be tablet only at first and come to phones later this year." Feb 10 20:28:32 yeah up to now i know too few of this enyo Feb 10 20:28:42 so, you have a while to support two code bases. Feb 10 20:28:47 yeah that means next year Feb 10 20:29:13 as for games i will have to stick to pdk at first anyways Feb 10 20:29:30 Looks like enyo supports webGL. Feb 10 20:29:31 but for another app i am planning... i have no idea what to do Feb 10 20:29:59 the good thing with pdk is that i can code on linux and then just port it over Feb 10 20:30:37 and this is actually the most upside of this webos pdk stuff... you can't get that on android that easy .... Feb 10 20:39:11 do we have a bot in here? Feb 10 20:39:15 ~seen SineOt Feb 10 20:39:18 no Feb 10 20:39:22 we dont Feb 10 20:39:31 hmph Feb 10 20:39:56 so what's your take on yesterday halo... Feb 10 20:41:38 14:27 < rick-work> well, you have some time. Get the email, download the enyo stuff and think about it. Feb 10 20:41:42 * sugardave wants the email. Feb 10 20:41:57 sugardave aren't you already IN ea? Feb 10 20:42:00 * sugardave is ready to download. Feb 10 20:42:14 I am, but step #2 seems to be missing Feb 10 20:42:37 therefore, step #3 cannot be achieved :( Feb 10 20:43:14 Orithma -- take is simple. HP made some hard choices, and flubbed how they announced them. Waiting sucks dead bunnies, but HP's plan for a webOS ecology of devices and webOS on laptops and desktops looking out a year looks like major $$$ to me. Feb 10 20:43:32 as a dev Feb 10 20:44:03 oh i'm right there with you Feb 10 20:44:16 funkatron's blog hit the nail on the head Feb 10 20:44:51 i'm only curious about halo cause he's a grouch... nothing pleases the man, and he uses an android phone. just wanna know what he thinks ;) Feb 10 20:45:01 GROUCH Feb 10 20:45:09 total grouch Feb 10 20:45:30 its in my contract Feb 10 20:47:32 in v2.x do they finally support 3d webkit transforms? Feb 10 20:54:12 enyo up yet? Feb 10 20:54:17 no Feb 10 20:54:20 :( Feb 10 20:54:29 its fine, they got a few hours before im off work still :) Feb 10 20:54:44 * funkatron watches people wait for enyo and cackles Feb 10 20:54:48 *muahahaha* Feb 10 20:55:13 i bet it won't come today Feb 10 20:55:45 and i'll definitely win because the day has only 2 hours left Feb 10 20:56:22 they're still got 11 hours PST Feb 10 20:56:31 only timezone that matters on "today" is PST Feb 10 20:58:56 i'm willing to bet it doesn't either Feb 10 20:58:59 lol Feb 10 21:01:14 yeah Feb 10 21:01:23 wouldn't be that big of a surprise Feb 10 21:25:10 oh yeah... anyone else submit an email to pdc@palm.com for the pre2 give-away? and anyone get a response at all? Feb 10 21:27:25 i would have done it when it started... but it's us only... Feb 10 21:28:40 again... no care for international customers Feb 10 21:29:03 heh Feb 10 21:29:15 you're just a negative nancy huh Feb 10 21:29:40 (totally playing!) Feb 10 21:29:46 oh yes i am Feb 10 21:29:52 you should do it anyway, just to express interest Feb 10 21:30:13 I didn't see about the Pre 2 giveaway, but I already have one so I will let someone else get a shot :) Feb 10 21:30:25 so chuqui can go to whoever makes the decision and go look at all these intl emails I got Feb 10 21:30:47 I have a Pre 2 sitting in a drawer somewhere Feb 10 21:31:01 sugardave: same here...though on second thought it is tempting to try for a second one and ask rwhitby where to send it ;) Feb 10 21:32:14 my coupon code for a second is good until...June? Feb 10 21:32:25 Loudergood: hmm, good point Feb 10 21:32:32 I'll miss mojo. I liked my html :( Feb 10 21:33:15 Enyo looks intuitive as hell once you get rolling with it Feb 10 21:33:19 but I'm not a real programmer Feb 10 21:33:41 just a Web Designer has-bin from the beginning of the internet Feb 10 21:33:59 back before you had to be able to freehand the sistine chapel :-P Feb 10 21:34:56 you know, that's what keeps me from getting into that ;) Feb 10 21:35:53 back when was cool? Feb 10 21:36:13 it still is Feb 10 21:36:18 and under construction "man digging" animated gifs were all the rage Feb 10 21:36:34 email us by clicking this animated mailbox image! Feb 10 21:36:44 or when email was "E-Mail" Feb 10 21:36:51 lol the dash Feb 10 21:37:59 * oil bbl Feb 10 21:38:11 when the dancing baby was the highmark of computer graphics Feb 10 21:38:30 rick-work: hey, rick. don't be surprised if you hear from roy. just had lunch, told him you had info he might find interesting. Feb 10 21:38:33 I still use e-mail Feb 10 21:39:43 hey chuqui - fun day yesterday? Feb 10 21:42:08 chuqui: when you guys have got past the PR snafu (or maybe it was intended to go down that way to hide it in the media overload), we should talk about what we can do for legacy power users. Feb 10 21:43:15 indeed and the inability for Palm to see outside of the US chuqui :) Feb 10 21:43:20 rwhitby: it was awesome. Got to talk to so many of the folks, put faces to avatars and names. Feb 10 21:43:32 annoying really as Im a bit fan of HP Feb 10 21:43:38 bit=big Feb 10 21:43:51 chuqui: still bummed that we haven't been able to have a beer Feb 10 21:43:52 rwhitby: we will. but I can't today. Feb 10 21:44:06 chuqui: understood. bigger fish to fry. Feb 10 21:44:29 Draecos: yeah. but it's complicated, unfortunately. not "inability to see" but "not simple". something we're very aware of. Feb 10 21:45:45 haeffb: I'm _still_ waiting for my first coupon... :( i hope HP picks me for a dev device... Feb 10 21:45:48 yer im being more sarcastic than anything to be honest chuqui Feb 10 21:45:49 * Orithma crosses fingers. Feb 10 21:47:01 chuqui: will the Pixi get a SDL update at least? Feb 10 21:47:47 STOP DISTRACTING HIM PLEASE!!!! Feb 10 21:47:48 :P Feb 10 21:47:55 bah Feb 10 21:48:05 he needs to PUSH THE DAMN BUTTON Feb 10 21:48:38 chuqui, if you get to see Jon at some point. Give him a dig in the ribs and tell him to sort it all out. I think the general community response I've read over the past day says it all. Feb 10 21:48:48 :P Feb 10 21:54:25 MetaView: to be honest, I don't know. not something I'm in the loop on. Feb 10 21:54:45 sugardave: TYPING AS FAST AS I CAN. (okay, seriously. back to setting up the enyo stuff. really) Feb 10 21:54:49 ok, a pity Feb 10 21:54:55 godspeed, chuqui Feb 10 21:55:08 sugardave: I just cancelled all of my meetings for the rest of the day, including my focal review. FOR YOU GUYS> Feb 10 21:55:23 yay! Feb 10 21:55:24 sweety :) Feb 10 21:55:26 THINK OF THE CHILDREN! Feb 10 21:55:30 for those wondering last night whether Sprint/Asurion was still replacing Pre's...Yes they are. Feb 10 21:55:33 chuqui: thanks for everything you do. and if you get enyo out to EAP you'll be my hero :) Feb 10 21:55:58 I understand things are pretty hellish at the moment Feb 10 21:56:01 we should pitch in and buy poor chuqui a new flame suit Feb 10 21:56:04 But not Pixi's Feb 10 21:56:05 we need a big win Feb 10 21:56:09 Enyo is that win Feb 10 21:56:21 * haeffb had a Pixi replaced with a Pre yesterday. Feb 10 21:58:06 Loudergood: I'm good, thanks. I've cancelled the request for a bomb sniffing dog. No need. you folks all rock. Feb 10 21:58:27 okay, back later, all. gonna go try to focus. Feb 10 21:58:34 1/72 uploaded · 89 minutes remaining Feb 10 21:58:37 =/ Feb 10 21:58:44 go chuq go! Feb 10 21:58:52 brilliant. no school tomorrow Feb 10 21:58:53 fight chuq fight! Feb 10 21:58:57 goooooooo CHUQ Feb 10 21:58:58 it's gonna be an enyo night Feb 10 21:59:04 chuqui: godspeeed! Feb 10 21:59:05 maik: haha Feb 10 21:59:16 Tibfib: nice Feb 10 21:59:49 HEY I HEARD I CAN GET THE ENYO HERE Feb 10 21:59:56 20 bucks Feb 10 22:00:09 15? Feb 10 22:00:16 30 now Feb 10 22:00:25 funkatron: have you set a minimum required version for spaz? or is it just 1.0? Feb 10 22:00:49 1.4.5 Feb 10 22:00:57 and it shows up on 2.0, right? Feb 10 22:01:00 yep Feb 10 22:01:09 funkatron: sorry I accidently the enyo earlier Feb 10 22:01:16 shit Feb 10 22:01:28 I have it on my pre2, but I don't remember how I got it there Feb 10 22:01:28 Tibfib: you may need to get whitelisted to submit an app with 2.0 features, though Feb 10 22:01:33 funkatron: I'm on that Feb 10 22:01:45 submitting koto tonight Feb 10 22:02:05 submit that shit Feb 10 22:02:08 funkatron: 2.0 apps are actually go already? Feb 10 22:02:09 GET IT ON Feb 10 22:02:16 destinal: yep Feb 10 22:02:22 there are Pre2s in the wild Feb 10 22:02:25 in france Feb 10 22:02:32 and unlocked devices, like mine Feb 10 22:02:33 and here Feb 10 22:02:34 so, yeah Feb 10 22:02:35 funkatron: I have a pre2 :) Feb 10 22:02:44 * Tibfib tiene unn pre2 Feb 10 22:02:50 and Spaz supports some 2.0 shit Feb 10 22:03:16 like Just Type to post Feb 10 22:03:25 which apparently made people shit their pants yesterday for some reason Feb 10 22:03:29 but you can't talk about as it is under NDA ;) Feb 10 22:03:30 lol Feb 10 22:03:52 haha, I can talk about stuff that's already public, and that stuff is Feb 10 22:04:12 I don't think I can technically release the source to koto yet. Feb 10 22:04:25 you can't say you are a part of any EAP Feb 10 22:04:29 ;) Feb 10 22:04:33 what's EAP? Feb 10 22:04:39 I don't know Feb 10 22:04:44 * Tibfib wins Feb 10 22:04:57 Tibfib: why not? spaz source is public Feb 10 22:05:06 * halfhalo goes back to making a hacky node thingie to get around some async limitations Feb 10 22:05:07 but I use moreee 2.0 stuff Feb 10 22:05:15 my entire app is 2.0 stuff Feb 10 22:05:20 ya know Feb 10 22:05:30 I say it's easier to apologize Feb 10 22:05:38 THE BITS WANT TO BE FREE Feb 10 22:05:46 yeahh... I'm not feeling toooo happy with palm Feb 10 22:05:49 also I'm pretty sure I can say I'm in the EAP Feb 10 22:06:12 * funkatron looks this up while Chuq bans his IP Feb 10 22:06:18 lol Feb 10 22:06:36 Tibfib: it's only a matter of time until a public solution to 2.0 on pre can exist I think Feb 10 22:06:37 heh Feb 10 22:06:43 oh it'll get backported Feb 10 22:07:11 is the session timeout on developer.palm.com like 5 minutes? Feb 10 22:07:13 jesus Feb 10 22:07:23 funkatron: use the greasemonkey script Feb 10 22:07:25 no, it's more like 1 hour Feb 10 22:07:30 * Tibfib finds link Feb 10 22:07:31 Tibfib: link! Feb 10 22:07:42 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=5776&hilit=greasemonkey Feb 10 22:07:52 I should have bookmarked that by now Feb 10 22:08:14 and when you login, instead of kicking you back to the forum, it says, "welcome to the registered area of the site" :( Feb 10 22:08:17 oh yeah Feb 10 22:08:19 that also Feb 10 22:08:21 woof. Feb 10 22:08:55 oops. Feb 10 22:09:00 MetaView: you were right Feb 10 22:09:16 all of that stuff I said earlier was just jokes Feb 10 22:09:17 hah. hah. Feb 10 22:09:35 destinal-work: backporting is great and all... but 99% of users won't use it. Feb 10 22:10:05 which makes the market a LOT smaller for koto Feb 10 22:10:07 funkatron: jokes that can be used against you in a court of law. *Law and Order Ding Ding sound* Feb 10 22:10:14 shit. Feb 10 22:10:23 pwned Feb 10 22:10:29 lollll Feb 10 22:10:38 nice knowin ya guys! Feb 10 22:11:05 funkatron: that was a good post by teh way Feb 10 22:11:08 Tibfib: we can only hope that the brave new market for webos devices takes care of that I suppose, but it'll take a lot of time to recover from this IMO Feb 10 22:11:08 funkatron: I've read nothing Feb 10 22:11:12 Tibfib: thanks mano Feb 10 22:11:24 can I use this userscript in The Chrome? Feb 10 22:11:26 is anyone in the room actually outside of the US? Feb 10 22:11:30 funkatron: I do Feb 10 22:11:36 room lol Feb 10 22:11:39 AOL Feb 10 22:11:41 channel Feb 10 22:11:42 apparently so Feb 10 22:11:51 destinal-work: yeah.. I think it will.. But that will be in the summer. Feb 10 22:11:53 Draecos: I think many people are Feb 10 22:12:03 k, just wondered Feb 10 22:12:07 rwhitby has been known to throw some shrimp on the barby Feb 10 22:12:08 destinal-work: I was ready to sell koto yesterday.. Feb 10 22:12:14 Draecos: yes Feb 10 22:12:16 Germany Feb 10 22:12:21 oh yeah Feb 10 22:12:28 spend a lot of time idling in here and wondered Feb 10 22:12:31 so all you people said you were gonna make themes, and only Tibfib did Feb 10 22:12:32 germany here Feb 10 22:12:35 so now I'm screwed Feb 10 22:12:35 yer i forgot about rwhitby Feb 10 22:12:50 * Tibfib made a blue one :) Feb 10 22:12:51 Australia, isn't it part of the US Feb 10 22:12:52 ? Feb 10 22:12:55 ;) Feb 10 22:12:55 lol Feb 10 22:13:13 i hope not, im intending to emigrate there :) Feb 10 22:13:21 no offense to the US Feb 10 22:13:22 similar. Australia was founded by thieves. the US was founded by religious fanatics Feb 10 22:13:33 lol Feb 10 22:13:53 funkatron: although I would argue dev info is an F too Feb 10 22:13:54 Australia == Escape From New York Feb 10 22:13:59 any UK based or am I alone :( Feb 10 22:14:03 hah funkatron Feb 10 22:14:08 Tibfib: well. yeah, I could debate that Feb 10 22:14:40 I think the no 2.0 for older devices was the worst, so I kinda wanted to rate it lower Feb 10 22:15:00 yeah Feb 10 22:15:10 f-? Feb 10 22:15:11 I guess that's why I was thinking dev info should be an f too hah Feb 10 22:15:16 F+ Feb 10 22:15:28 just realised I sounded far too AOL with my questions Feb 10 22:15:33 haha Feb 10 22:15:36 a/s/l anyone Feb 10 22:15:36 guess he means frogland Feb 10 22:15:38 the fact that palm didn't tell us is worse than the fact that it's happening imo Feb 10 22:15:39 jesus Feb 10 22:15:40 A/S/L everyone? Feb 10 22:15:40 haha Feb 10 22:15:42 as a developer Feb 10 22:15:42 heheh Feb 10 22:15:47 great minds eh Feb 10 22:15:50 indeed Feb 10 22:16:06 i'll desist now :) Feb 10 22:16:38 all of this negativity aside: I plan on buying a touchpad and pre3 on day one and am continuing webos development Feb 10 22:16:48 me too Feb 10 22:16:49 id like to start :) Feb 10 22:16:53 just finding the time Feb 10 22:17:02 i started but got sidetracked with real life :S Feb 10 22:17:08 kids n shit Feb 10 22:17:09 i'd like to be able to afford it Feb 10 22:17:27 "THERE WILL BE PROGRAMS TO GET PEOPLE INTO NEW DEVICES" from Lisa Feb 10 22:17:39 THERE WILL BE BLOOD! Feb 10 22:17:44 i'll be getting a touchpad me thinks, tried to convince the missus last night but she was all "its not an ipad" Feb 10 22:17:54 http://funkatron.com/site/comments/thoughts-on-the-hp-think-beyond-webos-event/#7501 Feb 10 22:17:55 i was a bit, "wtf, its BETTER" Feb 10 22:18:13 "it doesnt have Flight Control" Feb 10 22:18:16 "ffs" Feb 10 22:18:28 I'll say this Feb 10 22:18:35 netflix on the iPad is fuckin awesoem Feb 10 22:18:36 man, Chuq and Lisa are dealing with a firestorm right now Feb 10 22:18:44 funkatron: yeah I hope we get it soon Feb 10 22:18:46 what would be a cool program is to give out the phone for free to devs, and they have 1 year to develop apps and pay for the phone from the revenue... after 1 year they either are done or get to pay the rest Feb 10 22:18:48 so they need to get that shit on their touchtab or whatever Feb 10 22:18:53 yer Feb 10 22:19:00 i read your blog post earlier dude Feb 10 22:19:04 my kid watches that stuff 24/7 Feb 10 22:19:13 agreedwhole heartly with it Feb 10 22:19:43 thanks mano Feb 10 22:19:50 I'm pretty influential Feb 10 22:19:53 that's what Klout says Feb 10 22:20:15 no need to thank, I think people just need to get over themselves. Feb 10 22:20:21 haha Feb 10 22:20:26 well, perhaps Feb 10 22:20:34 hp is meh Feb 10 22:20:35 kthx Feb 10 22:21:08 does anyone have more info on the pre2 giveaway? or should i just hold out and aim for a pre3? Feb 10 22:22:01 i see what you're ambiliant about funkatron Feb 10 22:22:08 totally from a dev pov Feb 10 22:22:47 its gets on my nerves reading some of the comments (mostly on precentral) cos people are sore about certain things Feb 10 22:23:05 but anyway, onwards and upwards Feb 10 22:23:30 yeah Feb 10 22:23:43 I think some dudes are a little hostile. I think it's the side effect of brand loyalty Feb 10 22:23:49 be loyal to people, not brands. Feb 10 22:24:06 indeed Feb 10 22:24:24 its pretty obvious who the trolls from other camps are which makes me laugh Feb 10 22:26:51 g'night Feb 10 22:28:21 night, better luck tomorrow Feb 10 22:37:45 lol.. id='justtype' doesn't work very well Feb 10 22:38:20 at least trying to listen to a tap on it.. Feb 10 22:39:52 Oh. or I'm an idiot Feb 10 22:40:00 and already had a div with that id. Feb 10 22:40:06 folks: just to clarify... there's been some unfortunate confusion from Ben's statement using the word "emulator", which is nothing like what you normally think of as an "emulator"... Feb 10 22:41:03 Mojo and enyo are both javascript frameworks. Running mojo apps on the tablet in a window with a gesture area does not involve an "emulator" but really it's just a compatibility mode. Probably not all that different than what you see when people run iphone apps on the ipad... Feb 10 22:41:03 lemketron: is the background around teh app black? or is it the device wallpaper? Feb 10 22:41:22 unknown yet, but would it matter? it's just a color fill or a jpeg... Feb 10 22:41:36 not really. I want to know if it's full screen or not Feb 10 22:41:43 i really need one of them chair roller mats for the office Feb 10 22:42:01 Ben said we should put it in a Palm Pilot device skin... ;-) Feb 10 22:42:05 lol Feb 10 22:42:11 doitdoitdoit Feb 10 22:42:11 kidding. btw. Feb 10 22:42:46 yikes. haven't been reading precentral comments. Feb 10 22:43:16 best not to :) Feb 10 22:43:17 everyone now hates apotheker and ruby :( Feb 10 22:43:23 * Tibfib closes Feb 10 22:43:41 well it's understandable Feb 10 22:43:44 apotheker seems ok Feb 10 22:43:51 ruby i think needs a slap Feb 10 22:43:52 not them blaming a single person Feb 10 22:43:53 funkatron: looks like you're HP blog/PR central at the moment. Feb 10 22:43:57 both of them broke promises made a short time ago Feb 10 22:43:59 haha Feb 10 22:44:01 crazy Feb 10 22:44:07 * lemketron wonders whether folks would prefer the Palm engineers face forward or backward when working over the next several months... Feb 10 22:44:09 * funkatron tunes apache Feb 10 22:44:33 lemketron: engineers keep doing what they're doing. but only after slapping the executives. Feb 10 22:45:24 I think I'll shut up now before I say something that gets misinterpreted, taken out of context, or re-posted somewhere. :-) Feb 10 22:45:25 whoops, I was behind in approving comments Feb 10 22:45:28 Draecos: well, Apotheker stood up and said, when we announce, we're going to be shipping in a couple of weeks, essentally right? Feb 10 22:45:41 yup Feb 10 22:45:41 ah thats true Feb 10 22:45:47 he needs a kick as well then Feb 10 22:45:48 lemketron: good plan :) Feb 10 22:46:04 no lemketron .. stand your man and leak info in here Feb 10 22:46:11 we won't tell anyone Feb 10 22:46:14 he wasn't specific; I suppose it was an unfortunate statement and/or unfortunate case of timing. Feb 10 22:46:25 ive had one of those weeks where i feel like firing off an email to explain my thoughts to them Feb 10 22:46:35 not to troll, just be constructive Feb 10 22:46:36 or maybe just a general introduction to making public statements in front of this particular community. ;-) Feb 10 22:46:40 but then I think, why bother Feb 10 22:47:15 as has been written already today, it's not like this stuff hasn't already been hotly debated for months internally. 'nuff said. Feb 10 22:47:20 lemketron: we appreciate the work the engineers are doing, but the overall strategy of Palm has been kind of lacking over the years and a lot of dates have slipped and a lot of things have been promised and then cancelled, so I think the long time fans are even more on edge about this stuff Feb 10 22:47:26 unfortunate? he knew about the upcoming event and the announcements Feb 10 22:48:24 lemketron: this was really HP's chance to stand up and change everything and they would have been given a PR clean slate IMO Feb 10 22:48:41 While I'd love to think he focuses 100% on our little business here, he was speaking about HP in general and that could mean lots of things. But yeah, it was said just before our event, and so people assumed that's what it referred to. Feb 10 22:49:08 "HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn't have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship," he promises, saying the products launched on 9 February will be on sale just a few weeks later. Feb 10 22:49:09 the whole event was HP... how can he forget about that? Feb 10 22:49:25 destinal -- follow the trail. he did NOT say that. Feb 10 22:49:29 that was a conclusion drawn by some blogger. Feb 10 22:50:01 wordsmithing to be clear, but he never said that everything introduced at our event would be immediately available. Feb 10 22:50:01 lemketron: the BBC, no less. they should be smacked around for publishing inaccurate information Feb 10 22:50:33 well.. now the message is already out there Feb 10 22:50:42 the BBC are good for that destinal-work Feb 10 22:50:51 you know, sometimes we get that people will run with stuff, and then we say little to nothing. and people get pissed off because we don't say anything. Then when we let our guard down and say more, people run with it, and then get unhappy when their projected interpretations don't pan out. I guess you can't win. :-/ Feb 10 22:51:16 that is just whining here Feb 10 22:51:29 rule of business lemketron, cant please everyone all the time Feb 10 22:51:39 when you promise your children to get ice cream and you break the promise, you get the punishment from them too Feb 10 22:51:55 Tibfib, you get a chance to play with the new xtwitter lib? ive made some minor changes the past couple days (typo fixes mainly) Feb 10 22:52:04 it was their responsibility to stick to that promise Feb 10 22:52:10 dawm: not yet Feb 10 22:52:30 what is that guy @funkatron's blog talking about re: sprint forcing you to spend upgrade credit by April or get locked with no upgrade credit for 11 months? Feb 10 22:52:43 fuck I dunno, I just approve them Feb 10 22:52:43 lemketron: the frustration people are feeling is real and it's due to executive decisions IMO. we're still excited about products but the coming months is becoming almost a joke term Feb 10 22:53:25 ^^ Feb 10 22:54:09 lemketron: webos is still awesome and getting more so, I'm very excited about it. Feb 10 22:54:13 ok Feb 10 22:54:16 product handling, meh Feb 10 22:54:16 i saw this while in SFO Feb 10 22:54:16 http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182091_1746334452030_1048858191_2052715_329458_n.jpg Feb 10 22:54:23 that pink one looks firmilar doesnt it? Feb 10 22:54:25 mrow Feb 10 22:54:44 sugardave: I'll cancel sprint if that happens Feb 10 22:54:48 but I doubt that Feb 10 22:55:19 I hope that doesn't happen Feb 10 22:58:05 what's this about upgrade stuff? I'm on Sprint but I'm in my second year so I'm premier now, or so I thought. In June, I'm a free agent. For what it's worth, I am ALSO trying to figure out what to do with my personal (three-phone family plan) account. All three of us would also like new phones at some point. :-/ Feb 10 22:58:33 (free agent == off contract, able to switch at will... if only there were a clear choice to switch TO.) Feb 10 22:59:11 sigh. Feb 10 22:59:15 I'm going to bite the bullet and switch from sprint whenever the carriers for the new devices are released Feb 10 22:59:20 * halfhalo hopes tmo Feb 10 22:59:23 destinal: thanks, btw. I just keep thinking about all the stuff that HP wants to do with this, and it should dwarf where we've been. Feb 10 22:59:28 it's the first I've seen a mention of it, guy is basically saying if we don't upgrade by April, Sprint locks upgrading for 11 months Feb 10 22:59:59 I'm out duders. ttys Feb 10 23:00:05 laters funk Feb 10 23:00:06 l8r Feb 10 23:00:27 halfhalo: I came from tmo to Sprint just for the Pre. I love the network and pricing. There seem to be clear issues with the other two major choices, one of which is cost, and the others boil down (for me) to GPS on one, and coverage on the other. :-/ Feb 10 23:00:56 lemketron: Sprint has one major disadvantage....their utter contempt for carrying webOS devices Feb 10 23:01:01 it would seem Feb 10 23:01:28 all the carriers are around the same price for me, but sprint just does not work the two places I want it to Feb 10 23:01:58 no service at home, really no service at work/school Feb 10 23:02:06 * lemketron comments verbally but the keyboard doesn't pick it up, thankfully. Feb 10 23:02:17 pre2 can still be comm board swapped to sprint but with the newer devices, we seem to be SOL Feb 10 23:02:45 would a comm board-swapped Pre 2 get OTA updates for the OS? Feb 10 23:03:04 they would if I had anything to do with it, but I don't... Feb 10 23:03:46 ooo, I wonder if my Pocket Reference is in the mailbox Feb 10 23:03:53 * sugardave wanders away for a while. Feb 10 23:03:57 sugardave: I expect we can modify it to take verizon OTA Feb 10 23:04:05 hasn't been done yet but should be possible Feb 10 23:05:05 ugh Feb 10 23:05:15 someone needs to make a tweetie style app for windows Feb 10 23:05:20 im so sick of tweetdeck Feb 10 23:05:25 takes up so much space Feb 10 23:05:36 dawm: Destroy Twitter Feb 10 23:05:38 dawm: how about just making a killer enyo twitter app, and then run THAT on windows? ;-) Feb 10 23:05:49 we need enyo first... Feb 10 23:05:51 lemketron: took the words right out of my mouth Feb 10 23:05:53 dawm: http://destroytwitter.com/ Feb 10 23:06:14 ill give it a try Feb 10 23:06:23 halfhalo: chuq is awesome, he'll have that button pushed soon :) Feb 10 23:06:24 halfhalo: if you guys would quit posting forum messages that chuqui has to read, maybe he could get it posted... Feb 10 23:06:33 hehe Feb 10 23:07:04 lemketron: I'm fine now. almost done. Feb 10 23:07:04 dohtem, ... Feb 10 23:07:10 someone needs to make a tweetie style app for windows Feb 10 23:07:10 file size is 666kb Feb 10 23:07:12 lemketron: HP/Palm's web pages said that Pre/Pixi would get webOS 2.0. That wasn't some bloggers intrepretation. Feb 10 23:07:14 yer i need that too Feb 10 23:07:23 echofon for fireferret does for now Feb 10 23:07:31 dawm: are you amazed at the size or the mark of the beast? Feb 10 23:07:38 both? :) Feb 10 23:07:40 Morning all. Feb 10 23:07:42 lol Feb 10 23:09:23 does DT do multi accounts? Feb 10 23:10:00 DT? Feb 10 23:10:09 oh destroy twitter? Feb 10 23:10:39 oh my.. its like an enyo app.. it has more stuff hidden, just gotta resize the window Feb 10 23:12:34 i guess its a bit early to ask at this stage but has there been any hints of more granular activesync features for the future versions of webos? Feb 10 23:13:03 one thing my android phone beats webos for is WM style granular controls of activesync Feb 10 23:13:34 I hate being negative about this stuff, but wtf would HP/Palm wait to have chuqui load up the Enyo stuff until the day of the big announcement, then spend all of the next day trying to work out the details. Why not have it ready to go. Shoddy work. Feb 10 23:14:02 haeffb: yup. I suck. I guess I'll go kill myself. thanks for pointing that out. Feb 10 23:14:18 not you chuqui... Feb 10 23:14:27 nobody likes me, everybody hates me I think I'll eat some worms... Feb 10 23:14:48 works DO have alot of protein! Feb 10 23:14:58 * oilsworkn isnt going to ask Feb 10 23:15:34 chuqui - I'm not saying that you dropped the ball...but why rely on one person to get this stuff done? Feb 10 23:16:29 haeffb: actually, the enyo team was up until oh dark 30 making sure this stuff was as complete as possible. Last minute drop let us add in more stuff that otherwise wouldn't be there. Feb 10 23:17:53 ok, I'll stop complaining. But I know that in my line of work, anything done in the last minutes/days before the deadline inevitably results in error. Feb 10 23:17:53 chuqui: it's really awesome. I think more "in the coming months" and I'd have to scream. really appreciate everyone who pulled together to make a release to EAP happen. Feb 10 23:17:54 anyone have those "Find it in the Catalog" immages? Feb 10 23:17:57 haeffb: and because I'm doing this, I'm fixing the issues with ftp.hp.com at the same time, so there's more going on behind the hood that is immediately obvious. Feb 10 23:18:27 this should have been addressed before stating that Enyo is available "right now" Feb 10 23:18:33 haeffb: oh, we'll probably have some of that, too. but this is a bleeding edge release to get people started. Feb 10 23:18:39 chuqui: i think all the new stuff is awesome and am looking forward to it :) Feb 10 23:18:41 chuqui: why don't you have minions/monkey's working that shit out so that you can do the important stuff... Feb 10 23:18:52 oilsworkn: quit sucking up Feb 10 23:18:54 sugardave: yup. guilty on that one. Feb 10 23:19:07 if its true is it still sucking up? Feb 10 23:19:10 yes Feb 10 23:19:15 well then Feb 10 23:19:16 haeffb: I have minions. they're dealing with other stuff. Feb 10 23:19:18 chuqui: you are awesome. Feb 10 23:19:18 im ok with that Feb 10 23:19:28 chuqui: heh, and when you drop the alpha on us, we'll complain about the bugs and missing features :) Feb 10 23:19:32 haeffb: well, minion. She's awesome. and laughs at my jokes. Feb 10 23:19:41 please don't take this as a personal attack. Feb 10 23:19:42 haeffb: poor woman. Feb 10 23:19:42 well, thats in the job description right? Feb 10 23:19:49 minions are the best..... Feb 10 23:20:05 chuqui, dunno if you're the person to ask. Dont suppose you saw my question above about exchange activesync? Feb 10 23:20:20 halfhalo: I'm all about appreciating a good thing. the HP / palm folks must be really getting tired of hearing only about the stuff we're frustrated with :) Feb 10 23:20:23 haeffb: I'm not. I agree. But honestly, there are times when living on the bleeding edge moves you forward faster than playing it careful. and sometimes, you get cut. Feb 10 23:20:52 true enough. People get more done under pressure than they do sitting on the beach. Feb 10 23:21:02 I can appreciate good things, too....IF WE HAD THEM Feb 10 23:21:05 :P Feb 10 23:21:41 * haeffb says while sitting on the beach... :) Feb 10 23:21:44 dohtem: I pledge to NOT complain about Enyo bugs until after the first 2 refreshes/updates Feb 10 23:21:54 will you join me? Feb 10 23:21:54 haeffb: I sit between the enyo framework folks and chuqui in that I BUILT the enyo drop that chuq is posting. Chuq asked us for the bits a few days ago so he could stage them, but as he already pointed out, we were still iterating on the sdk bits (after they stopped making fixes/changes to the framework itself). Feb 10 23:22:06 haeffb: and I love the adrenalin rush of knowing that one mistaken sudo and I can go home and update my resume... Feb 10 23:22:15 heh Feb 10 23:22:20 whoa Feb 10 23:22:20 DT has konami code Feb 10 23:22:26 lol Feb 10 23:22:29 I'm glad chuq and I actually made it home last night. :-) Feb 10 23:22:29 sugardave: I shall only complain on twitter :) Feb 10 23:22:58 sugardave: please don't do that. WE WANT FEEDBACK! WE CRAVE FEEDBACK. Feb 10 23:23:06 DT? Feb 10 23:23:12 I'll post them, just not complain about them ;) Feb 10 23:23:14 destorytwitter Feb 10 23:23:21 what a bizarre name, btw. Feb 10 23:23:29 destroy even Feb 10 23:23:48 lemketron -- I'm really GLAD you and chuq made it home last night Feb 10 23:23:56 dawm: how do you like it so far? Feb 10 23:24:02 needs multiple accts Feb 10 23:24:10 but it works, nice and simple Feb 10 23:24:16 * haeffb turns bitchy mode off. Feb 10 23:24:28 Really looking forward to seeing Enyo. Feb 10 23:24:32 lemketron: don't take this the wrong way re Enyo but it's going to be awesome not having to use the emulator to develop / test apps Feb 10 23:24:34 dawm: yeah, sits above the system tray. Small and compact Feb 10 23:24:34 when did you get around to fixing the switch? Feb 10 23:24:47 destinal: yeah, I've been dealing with a bit of that lately. Feb 10 23:24:56 okay, software setup is done; need to tweak the forums, and we'll go live... back to the bunker. Feb 10 23:25:01 oilsworkn: Oregonians have no room to talk. Feb 10 23:25:08 * sugardave cheers chuqui. Feb 10 23:25:13 for single-app development, desktop browser is great. but if you want to see how it plays on a device, and you don't happen to HAVE one... :-) Feb 10 23:25:14 ill keep yappin then Feb 10 23:25:17 chuqui!!!! Feb 10 23:25:18 ha Feb 10 23:25:21 ha Feb 10 23:25:42 lemketron Love being able to play the weird resolution game on the emulator Feb 10 23:25:44 lemketron: oh, I don't mean *neverI use the emulator, just for later stage on device testing Feb 10 23:26:08 I guess I don't need the emulator either, since I have access to real hardware. so maybe we should just skip the TouchPad emulator? :-) Feb 10 23:26:16 nyet Feb 10 23:26:27 cough cough. No Steve. Feb 10 23:26:33 haha Feb 10 23:26:49 what? you have a browser, don't you? ;-) Feb 10 23:26:54 lemketron: lol Feb 10 23:26:58 We know where you work. We can find where you live. That's a really BAD idea Steve. :-) Feb 10 23:27:09 rick is legion! Feb 10 23:27:35 * Orithma ducks Feb 10 23:27:40 lemketron: touchpad emulator would actually be really awesome. going to put that in EAP right away too? ;) ok I'm dreaming aren't I Feb 10 23:28:20 nice try. Feb 10 23:33:24 * pandora-- waves Feb 10 23:33:40 * haeffb presses F5 Feb 10 23:34:06 * oilsworkn waits for haeffb to tell him when to press f5 Feb 10 23:34:43 * KGF2009 is lost. Feb 10 23:37:36 * rwhitby waits for Chuq to tweet "you guys should look somewhere now" Feb 10 23:37:37 * sugardave changes it up and uses CTRL + R. Feb 10 23:39:05 So what's going on? Feb 10 23:39:17 sittin' and waitin' Feb 10 23:39:23 For? Feb 10 23:39:40 * haeffb goes to dinner. later Feb 10 23:40:36 bon apetit Feb 10 23:41:00 haeffb: dinner != refreshing! Feb 10 23:42:02 this is the coolest thing - http://labs.embed.ly/ Feb 10 23:42:13 google chrome extension for twitter Feb 10 23:43:15 haha, nice move chuqui Feb 10 23:44:01 chuqui: Back to the bunker? Would be much cooler if you worked out of a bat cave. FYI. Feb 10 23:44:23 what did i just miss? Feb 10 23:44:30 it is, he only said bunker to trick you Feb 10 23:47:28 Protip - Just type "52" into Firefox's "awesome bar" and it will autocomplete to an EAP forum that may or may not exist. Feb 10 23:48:36 dgathright: someone else owns the trademark on bat cave -- don't want to get sued. Feb 10 23:48:41 I thought chuqui worked in a dog breeding facility. He's always saying "look a puppy!" Feb 10 23:48:50 dgathright: but do you know I did actually write a batman store for DC once? Feb 10 23:49:02 whoa, neat Feb 10 23:50:51 adios all Feb 10 23:51:02 i hope to start playing with enyo in the near future Feb 10 23:51:11 whenever that might be Feb 10 23:51:30 chuqui: was it published? Feb 10 23:51:45 i haven't seen anything yet Feb 10 23:52:09 lol Feb 10 23:52:17 i was actually referring to the batman story Feb 10 23:52:20 not enyo xD Feb 10 23:52:44 What's cooler, Batman or Enyo? Feb 10 23:52:51 thats a tough choice Feb 10 23:52:54 hmmm, tough one Feb 10 23:53:02 afaik enyo has to utility belt or awesome car/tank thing Feb 10 23:53:18 I do know that if Bruce Wayne were a web dev, he'd certainly prefer Enyo. Feb 10 23:53:20 tp=no ? Feb 10 23:53:23 to* Feb 10 23:53:27 wow, none of us can type Feb 10 23:53:33 yes Feb 10 23:53:36 oilsworkn: yes, it was in a few of their anthologies. Now, out of print. Feb 10 23:53:38 i meant no Feb 10 23:53:43 chuqui: still cool Feb 10 23:54:04 okay, for real... leaving work... Feb 10 23:54:06 adios Feb 10 23:55:03 has someone yet found a single serial number that's promised an upgrade path to 2.0? Feb 10 23:55:29 huh? Feb 10 23:55:47 HAH! took less than a minute. Feb 10 23:55:48 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=11200 Feb 10 23:56:44 haha Feb 10 23:57:48 do a little dance! Feb 10 23:57:53 make a little love! Feb 10 23:58:26 get down tonight? Feb 10 23:58:51 only if there was an EAP irc channel Feb 10 23:59:03 there should be Feb 10 23:59:04 * oilsworkn bets its going to get real quite in here Feb 10 23:59:40 I'm not seeing things I think I should be seeing :s Feb 10 23:59:51 it's like, anti-hallucinating Feb 10 23:59:56 haha Feb 10 23:59:59 oilsworkn: yuuuuup Feb 11 00:00:57 dang, I wish I could disable command-w in colloquy. Feb 11 00:01:18 * halfhalo is tempted to do command-w to see what it does in colloquy Feb 11 00:01:26 try it Feb 11 00:01:28 ah Feb 11 00:01:32 I see what has happened Feb 11 00:01:43 close? Feb 11 00:01:54 got it :) Feb 11 00:02:03 unarchiving Feb 11 00:02:03 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Feb 11 00:03:16 Could someone explain to me why it's the case that O2 Pre Plus owners are being promised an update to 2.0, but ATT and Verizon Pre Plus users are being told their phones don Feb 11 00:03:21 't support it? Feb 11 00:04:06 RELEASE THE HOUNDS, and TALLY HO! Feb 11 00:04:06 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=55626#p55626 Feb 11 00:04:21 dgathright: youre excited... Feb 11 00:04:42 ctbeiser: Carriers suck? Feb 11 00:04:57 chuqui: cool Feb 11 00:05:20 enyo sounds great, but, I'm out Feb 11 00:05:55 : I got that, but Palm saying that the hardware can't support it when they're promising to release it as long as it's the case that you're on O2 -> Really? Feb 11 00:06:06 i <3 enyo Feb 11 00:06:17 ctbeiser: Load of tripe. Feb 11 00:06:55 ctbeiser: crappy Feb 11 00:07:11 hey i can get a $50 trade-in credit for my Pre on sprint Feb 11 00:07:16 :) Feb 11 00:07:33 really? what can we get in trade? Feb 11 00:07:53 I wonder if you can trade more than one at a time... ;-) Feb 11 00:08:02 I guess I'll have to wait for them to come out with the O2 doctor, and then it should be pretty easy to metadoctor.. Feb 11 00:08:11 ctbeiser: wait, has it been confirmed anywhere that O2 will get webos 2,0? Feb 11 00:08:14 for pre? Feb 11 00:10:05 lemketron: Seriously... Feb 11 00:10:07 :) Feb 11 00:10:35 :desinal-work If you type an O2 Pre Plus serial into the Upgrade availability page, it says that's the case. Feb 11 00:11:45 ctbeiser: nice Feb 11 00:11:45 roy: I suspect I would be disappointed with the trade-in choices. Kinda like when I went swimming with my Treo650 only to find out that the T-Mobile "device replacement" policy I had been paying for insisted on replacing it with a "comparable" WinMo phone. Feb 11 00:14:44 chuqui: if there's a password or something or other... nice one! Feb 11 00:16:37 wtf, Enyo doesn't work in IE6? Feb 11 00:16:41 ;) Feb 11 00:16:53 that is totally bogus! Feb 11 00:16:54 * Tibfib wonders what rwhitby is up to Feb 11 00:16:58 me, too Feb 11 00:17:11 it's been 11 mins yo Feb 11 00:17:13 but I had to kill all my Iron windows to set that weird command line thing Feb 11 00:17:44 okay, can I go to the bathroom now? Feb 11 00:17:56 sure, but keep your phone on Feb 11 00:18:02 AWESOME rwhitby Feb 11 00:18:11 Hooray for (mostly) non-minified code Feb 11 00:18:23 sweet Feb 11 00:19:00 good timing Feb 11 00:21:07 i wonder Feb 11 00:22:16 Question: could someone explain to me why exactly Palm is not releasing 2.0 for the Pre+? I know it's been beaten to death, but none of the answers make any sense.. Feb 11 00:22:51 chuqui: are there a lot of requests for EAP queued up? Feb 11 00:23:21 hahahaha Feb 11 00:23:52 destinal-work: last I looked, my inbox had gone from 30 emails to somewhere north of 400. The thought of checking what it is now scares me. Feb 11 00:24:00 chuqui: wow ouch Feb 11 00:24:12 ctbeiser: basically, because it would take a lot of work to maintain compatibility with <2.0 devices Feb 11 00:24:40 ctbeiser: that >=2.0 devices have diverged too much support both branches of hardware with the same version of OS Feb 11 00:24:44 that's my understanding Feb 11 00:24:56 it sucks, but that's my understanding Feb 11 00:25:14 pandora--: I don't think we've actually gotten an answer that makes a lot of technical sense Feb 11 00:25:30 true Feb 11 00:25:45 I think I got it! Feb 11 00:25:52 webOS 2.0 has flash. Feb 11 00:25:58 Licensing flash costs $$$ Feb 11 00:26:21 no. Feb 11 00:26:24 ctbeiser: heh, I doubt that's it, they've been planning flash (and even testing it, so I hear) on 1.3.x Feb 11 00:27:22 yup Feb 11 00:27:29 flash was supposed to be available LONG ago Feb 11 00:27:40 ctbeiser: the most likely reason is that pre- has only 256M of RAM and with node.js and other things that pre2 is running in the public 2.0 release, it might be rather tight Feb 11 00:28:13 But now that everyone is getting new devices anyway, it doesn't make sense to pay money for Flash. Feb 11 00:28:31 heh Feb 11 00:28:32 well Feb 11 00:28:50 destinal-work: The Pre+ has 512 megs, and they're not releasing it for the US ones of those either. Feb 11 00:29:38 ctbeiser: new devices like droid x? Feb 11 00:29:40 ctbeiser, pandora--: one could conjecture that the inability to bring 2.0 to legacy locked carrier devices might also be restricted by confidential carrier agreements ... Feb 11 00:29:41 not saying anything specific, but it doesnt run that bad on 1.4.5 Feb 11 00:30:34 you can use any webkit browser right? :) Feb 11 00:30:43 then I would totally throw the carriers under the bus Feb 11 00:30:51 some might find this useful - https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/kkelicaakdanhinjdeammmilcgefonfh Feb 11 00:31:26 rwhitby: True, true... Hopefully we'll see them "accidentally" leak a doctor of 2.1 in the coming weeks. Feb 11 00:32:06 rwhitby: true, that would explain the rumors of it coming to O2 Feb 11 00:32:58 so i guess that doc editor will reuire webos 2.x Feb 11 00:33:07 destinal-work: I'd call them anything but rumors. It's probably the only thing they've confirmed via Palm.com at this point... Feb 11 00:33:13 dohtem: thanks, saw it yesterday but forgot to install Feb 11 00:33:32 np Feb 11 00:33:38 ctbeiser: unless the lookup app is in error Feb 11 00:33:47 http://blog.palm.com/palm/2011/02/thanks-really-for-the-feedback.html Feb 11 00:34:45 ugh Feb 11 00:34:58 "We’re working on something that we hope will help make things right for you. We’ll be sharing the specifics with you when they’re ready." Feb 11 00:35:12 http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-DROID-Android-Verizon-Wireless/dp/B003UESOGA Feb 11 00:35:18 At least this time it's "when ready" rather than "the coming units of time." Feb 11 00:35:25 there's my feedback/response :) Feb 11 00:35:37 ewww Feb 11 00:35:58 anyone got that NSFW hp is retard youtube link? Feb 11 00:36:18 lol what? Feb 11 00:36:31 I have all of the anger Feb 11 00:36:37 yes that one Feb 11 00:36:46 I don't have it Feb 11 00:36:49 * dohtem has to see this Feb 11 00:36:51 The only thing that would make me happy is if they'd send me a contract-free unlocked Pre 2/3 for free or the cost of manufacturing.. Feb 11 00:37:13 dawm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI056nhaduk Feb 11 00:37:50 thanks i wanted to watch it again Feb 11 00:37:55 language NFSW Feb 11 00:38:00 The server encountered a temporary error and could not complete your request. Feb 11 00:38:00 Please try again in 30 seconds. Feb 11 00:38:05 nice google/youtube Feb 11 00:38:11 Anyone want to make bets on what "something special" will be? Feb 11 00:38:28 HP shoelaces Feb 11 00:38:40 and a coupon for Pizza Hut Feb 11 00:38:44 ctbeiser: free screen protector? Feb 11 00:38:48 pssh, Papa Johns Feb 11 00:39:01 dawm: I'd be down for that if they were Palm shoelaces... Feb 11 00:39:14 you put shoes on your feet not your hands Feb 11 00:39:19 they would be HP not palm :) Feb 11 00:39:40 dawm: Probably. Feb 11 00:39:42 Heh, I meet the webos roundup guy yesterday. He was pretty cool Feb 11 00:39:50 well one of the guys, I assume Feb 11 00:39:58 lol great youtube vid Feb 11 00:40:37 I'm personally hoping for a commemorative piece of "HP made my phone obsolete three months after I bought it by breaking their promise to release webOS 2.0 even though they have the ability to do so" lucite. Feb 11 00:40:48 who remembers the Pre3 screen dimensions? Feb 11 00:40:55 480x800 Feb 11 00:41:01 and the TP? Feb 11 00:41:02 hehehehe Feb 11 00:41:03 thanks Feb 11 00:41:07 i forget Feb 11 00:41:19 i was just talking to someone on the phone about the pre3 screen so i had it on the top of my head Feb 11 00:41:42 you actually recently bought a palm pre Feb 11 00:42:13 dawm: "I like pizza" :) Feb 11 00:42:23 see pizza hut coupon Feb 11 00:42:56 sugardave: 1024*768 Feb 11 00:43:16 ah, thanks Feb 11 00:43:22 depends how you hold it tho :P Feb 11 00:43:42 * dohtem add entries to resizer Feb 11 00:43:53 dawm: let's go buy some motorazr's on ebay Feb 11 00:44:05 hell no Feb 11 00:44:12 A lot of people unhappy about webos 2.x for practically no reason. Feb 11 00:44:17 deihmos: Not that recently. A while ago. I had sold my N900 because it couldn't be used with one hand, and Nokia had basically given up on supporting it (ironic, no?) and I was able to sell it for 50% more than I bought it for, and I had always really wanted a pre+... Feb 11 00:44:27 im rocking my pre1 until it dies or somethign better hits sprint Feb 11 00:44:28 dawm: did you watch the youtube video? Feb 11 00:44:43 many times Feb 11 00:44:47 i didnt have the url on this machine Feb 11 00:44:53 If you're here in this chat then you know that Rod and company are unlikely to let webOS 2.x stay off all the devices. Feb 11 00:45:49 nyceane, if you want sure Feb 11 00:45:52 roy-pre101: They've made it pretty freaking clear that webOS 2.x is not going to come to any legacy devices except the O2 Pre+ Feb 11 00:46:17 i was gonna work on something like that in the next couple days, cause i already have my twitter lib, but didnt touch fb yet Feb 11 00:47:20 anyone on chrome? Feb 11 00:47:49 ctbeiser: Really… You've never heard of metadoctor? Feb 11 00:47:57 as in browser? Feb 11 00:48:10 'it' sorta works on the pre 1.4.5 browser Feb 11 00:48:58 yeah, I made Pre3 and TouchPad portrait and landscape entries Feb 11 00:49:48 dawm, i made changes Feb 11 00:50:20 dawm, just added you Feb 11 00:50:53 cool Feb 11 00:52:27 bwahahaha: http://damnyouautocorrect.com/5389/the-simple-things-in-life/ Feb 11 00:52:36 the devs didn't get that gift bag =( Feb 11 00:52:47 I'm kinda surprised that I didn't see any predictive autocorrect. Feb 11 00:52:48 hi roy-pre101, are you back? Feb 11 00:52:50 On the TouchPad. Feb 11 00:52:59 I'm still on California. Feb 11 00:54:00 when are you heading back? Feb 11 00:54:04 maybe we can go grab some food Feb 11 00:54:07 Tonight. Feb 11 00:54:15 ahhh =( Feb 11 00:54:43 none of the devs got the gift bag =-| Feb 11 00:54:47 that kinda sucked lol Feb 11 00:56:44 Logging for a bit to let my phone charge. IT's depleting even on wall power because of tether. Feb 11 00:59:05 how do you tether with pre? Feb 11 00:59:13 without paying that $15 Feb 11 01:05:22 nyceane: freetether Feb 11 01:05:27 in the webosinternals testing feed Feb 11 01:16:06 internals server is good timing.. restoring faith Feb 11 01:17:24 I'll try it out Feb 11 01:22:57 Tibfib: what? Feb 11 01:23:08 haeffb: what? Feb 11 01:23:24 are you referring to? Feb 11 01:23:54 internals server is good timing.. restoring faith Feb 11 01:26:28 A little donation from HP to WebOS Internals. Feb 11 01:28:31 oh. nice. Feb 11 01:29:31 * Hendikins takes advantage of the fact he doesn't need a work phone for the next 5 weeks to look at some WebOS doctor versions that are out there. Feb 11 01:34:21 HEY GUYS Feb 11 01:34:49 hey funkatron Feb 11 01:35:24 what's up? Feb 11 01:35:54 ooo IE9 RC your so smooth Feb 11 01:40:02 I cannot talk about the enyo Feb 11 01:40:16 enyo wut? Feb 11 01:41:55 funkatron are you mostly enyo now Feb 11 01:42:16 yes, I am enyo Feb 11 01:43:02 sorry I mean phone gap Feb 11 01:45:17 * oil was expecting "mom" after funkatrons message Feb 11 01:47:00 oh not reallqy Feb 11 01:47:04 I'm just experimenting with it Feb 11 01:49:22 funkatron: Is Spaz ported to Enyo yet? Feb 11 01:49:36 hahahahahhahahaahahahahahah no Feb 11 01:49:41 lazy Feb 11 01:53:19 hmmm wonder if this means I will need to open source my code if I go with phonegap Feb 11 01:53:34 I guess it does. Feb 11 01:54:04 no opensource for CTLAdvance? Feb 11 01:57:16 oil I dont know yet - I dont do that, but to hit so many devices.... trying to decide if its worth it. Feb 11 01:58:34 oil can I pm ? Feb 11 01:58:47 i dont know, can you? Feb 11 01:59:01 :) Feb 11 01:59:09 may I ? lol Feb 11 01:59:35 sure Feb 11 02:00:09 lies Feb 11 02:02:09 halfhalo is just bad that he doesn't know how Feb 11 02:02:15 mad* Feb 11 02:02:24 always a possibility Feb 11 02:09:51 * halfhalo does a dance Feb 11 02:11:01 while sitting at your pc? Feb 11 02:11:07 or did you get up for the dance? Feb 11 02:12:47 * halfhalo got up Feb 11 02:17:50 * haeffb needs a "xxxx for Dummies" book. Feb 11 02:18:37 whoa there Feb 11 02:43:08 hey hey Feb 11 02:43:20 so how's the rage fest over 2.0 OTA been going? XD Feb 11 02:43:40 #!G!G$#$! Feb 11 02:45:37 ahaha **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 11 02:59:57 2011