**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 24 02:59:57 2011
Feb 24 03:00:04 <Tibfib> you don't
Feb 24 03:00:16 <Tibfib> I don't think you can inject javascript in any way
Feb 24 03:00:39 <Xuzz> okay, is there any other way to embed a <form>?
Feb 24 03:00:46 <Xuzz> (XHR does not work to submit this form)
Feb 24 03:40:58 <MetaView> I'm going to remove 2.1 from my Pre soon, too many 'too many carsds' error and kind of bad performance
Feb 24 03:42:03 <SineOt> that's what happens with bleeding edge releases :p
Feb 24 03:42:52 * SineOt has found 2.1 to be pretty snappy on his Pre+, even without over clocking available
Feb 24 03:44:03 <MetaView> the launcher is snappy, but when I have 3 or 4 cards open it starts to go slow
Feb 24 03:44:19 <MetaView> and later I'm unable to open any app anymore
Feb 24 03:44:25 <SineOt> hmm, I wonder if you can adjust the size of the compcache now that it's included in the kernel by default
Feb 24 03:44:34 <MetaView> nothing open but still getting TMC error
Feb 24 03:44:44 <MetaView> but I have a Pre(-)
Feb 24 03:44:48 <MetaView> minus
Feb 24 03:45:09 <SineOt> yeah that's why I'm curious if you can increase the compcache size
Feb 24 03:46:00 <MetaView> wouldn't know how
Feb 24 03:46:14 * SineOt is checking it right now, does know how :]
Feb 24 03:48:32 <SineOt> now to see if it sticks around even after a reboot
Feb 24 03:52:03 <SineOt> MetaView: using Govnah, it seems you're able to adjust the size of the compcache from a fairly anemic 10mb up to whatever size you want... I run my Pixi at 24mb, for example, and never see TMC errors even with 15+ cards open
Feb 24 03:52:32 <SineOt> it looks like you can set it but it won't persist through a full reboot. Something looks like it's setting compcache to 10mb on launch, but I'm sure that can get patched out along the line
Feb 24 03:52:48 <SineOt> I'd definitely give that a shot though, see if it improves performance any
Feb 24 03:52:53 <SineOt> at the least should kill the TMC errors
Feb 24 03:53:00 <torchie> how's the memory usage in 2.1.0 sprint pre
Feb 24 03:53:02 <torchie> given the ram
Feb 24 03:53:07 <torchie> should I be le worried
Feb 24 03:54:07 <torchie> beginning THE PROCESS
Feb 24 03:54:14 <MetaView> ok, thx
Feb 24 03:56:12 <SineOt> rwhitby: I know it's probably still way early, but how much of Palm's compcache implementation is shared with the webOS Internals kernel version? I assume a lot of it, so anything you can set in Govnah should work with the new stock 2.1 kernel, no?
Feb 24 03:57:57 <rwhitby> SineOt: we don't have kernel source code
Feb 24 03:58:20 <SineOt> ah, good point! :B
Feb 24 03:58:35 <SineOt> well, either way: Govnah seems to be able to set the limits, but you can only set them once
Feb 24 03:59:51 <oil> govnah is meant to be used with custom kernels
Feb 24 04:00:19 <MetaView_> govnah lost its settings on my 1.4.5 pre also from time to time
Feb 24 04:00:31 <Xuzz> (I'm assuming using PalmSystem.paste() isn't allowed in the App Catalog?)
Feb 24 04:01:28 <SineOt> oil: yeah, but customs don't exist right now on 2.1, but it seems that the compcache is similar enough that Govnah can in fact alter it
Feb 24 04:02:36 <oil> you have to disable compcache to be able to change its limit
Feb 24 04:02:38 <oil> then reenable it
Feb 24 04:03:08 <SineOt> yeah
Feb 24 04:05:16 <SineOt> seems like it might cap at 75mb?
Feb 24 04:06:27 <rwhitby> if you're setting compcache higher than 16MB, then you don't understand how it operates.
Feb 24 04:07:06 <SineOt> rwhitby: I'm just setting it to see what it will and will not do with the Palm 2.1 compcache module :p
Feb 24 04:08:23 <SineOt> the 2.1 module doesn't like setting it to 128mb either way, ends up with 75mb, but it'll do 96 @_@
Feb 24 04:14:47 <torchie> so hyyyyyype
Feb 24 04:15:00 <rwhitby> hype?
Feb 24 04:15:11 <torchie> wait so compcache shouldn't be above 16mb?
Feb 24 04:15:26 <torchie> well then.
Feb 24 04:16:01 <rwhitby> well, not without having a good reason for doing so
Feb 24 04:16:11 <torchie> good reason huh?
Feb 24 04:17:07 <rwhitby> yep, including the stats taken over time to back it up
Feb 24 04:17:31 * SineOt lets users set it to 128mb anyways? :p
Feb 24 04:17:44 <MetaView_> how much mem does the pre- have?
Feb 24 04:18:21 <rwhitby> 256MiB
Feb 24 04:18:25 <torchie> I used to set it to 96mb
Feb 24 04:18:25 <torchie> :d
Feb 24 04:20:00 <torchie> oh shoot I see a doctor
Feb 24 04:20:03 <torchie> an HP webOS doctor
Feb 24 04:20:12 * SineOt just sets it to 24mb, figuring that's a decent percentage for a device with ~192mb of RAM in it to begin with.
Feb 24 04:21:10 <MetaView_> and the comp cache contains the compressed pagefile?
Feb 24 04:23:00 <torchie> steadyyyyy
Feb 24 04:23:03 <torchie> steeeeeaaaadyyyyyy
Feb 24 04:23:10 <torchie> don't disconnect your phone.
Feb 24 04:24:00 <MetaView_> I don't like the new appcatalog
Feb 24 04:24:19 <MetaView_> hm, and the card stack feature needs a patch
Feb 24 04:24:26 <torchie> I am
Feb 24 04:24:29 <torchie> stonkingly hype
Feb 24 04:24:33 <torchie> what's wrong with stacks?
Feb 24 04:24:37 <MetaView_> browser cards should be in one stack
Feb 24 04:25:02 <SineOt> if they aren't... you can just stack them manually
Feb 24 04:25:14 <MetaView_> when I read somethign I tend to open browser windows in the background for later read
Feb 24 04:25:20 <torchie> personally I'm gonna miss the wave and tiny card view
Feb 24 04:25:26 <MetaView_> yes, I can do it manually
Feb 24 04:25:28 <torchie> blindingly fast navigation method that was
Feb 24 04:26:36 <SineOt> the wave is still there
Feb 24 04:27:05 <SineOt> it just goes away if you enable the virtual keyboard, which apparently won't ever happen in a real release from what I understand
Feb 24 04:27:11 <dkirker> MetaView_: I think the idea behind the card stacks for the browser is that if a page you are reading opens a new card, it stays in its stack, but if you open a new page, that is like opening a new window.
Feb 24 04:27:19 <torchie> no virtual keyboard in a real release?
Feb 24 04:27:24 <torchie> but what of the slate form factor devices
Feb 24 04:27:29 <torchie> that need to come
Feb 24 04:27:35 <SineOt> those would get it, yeah
Feb 24 04:27:50 <MetaView_> dkirker: no, I speak of browser pages apen from other apps
Feb 24 04:27:55 <SineOt> but at the Feb9th thing the guy doing the demo I was watching was saying that if there's a hardware keyboard, no virtual keyboard
Feb 24 04:28:04 <MetaView_> they tend to disturb my reading
Feb 24 04:28:08 <torchie> what if I want to type horzy
Feb 24 04:28:13 <dkirker> hmm
Feb 24 04:28:14 <MetaView_> in Twitter client for instance
Feb 24 04:28:25 <SineOt> and for slates/tablet, I think you're just supposed to tap on a text field and it'll pop up
Feb 24 04:28:32 <SineOt> I think the replace the wave thing was just for testing
Feb 24 04:28:37 <torchie> if it doesn't do that then fail
Feb 24 04:28:44 <torchie> the tap on a text field get a keyboard thing I mean
Feb 24 04:29:19 <MetaView_> But i will make a patch for the browser anyway, something like a just storing the URL without opening a new card
Feb 24 04:29:45 * SineOt can type sideways on his Pixi... :p
Feb 24 04:29:45 <rwhitby> MetaView_: I don't like the new app catalog either.
Feb 24 04:29:48 <MetaView_> because I end up with 10 browser cards at the end and the last ones aren't fully loaded anymore
Feb 24 04:29:57 <dkirker> MetaView_: I would be interested to hear more about your experiences for Universe.
Feb 24 04:30:12 <MetaView_> dkirker: do i have universe?
Feb 24 04:30:22 <dkirker> *for use cases in developing Universe
Feb 24 04:30:23 <dkirker> sorry
Feb 24 04:30:54 <Xuzz> Submitting a <form> in an <iframe> seems to open the browser, which of course doesn't work for POST requests.
Feb 24 04:31:01 <MetaView_> dkirker: have tabs and allow "open in a new tab" mode
Feb 24 04:31:33 <dkirker> MetaView_: not a bad idea
Feb 24 04:31:51 <MetaView_> rwhitby: if they would at least show all apps in a category, now one only sees the taop 10 or 20, which gets quite boring after a while :)
Feb 24 04:31:54 <Xuzz> Is there any way to locally submit a POST request, via JavaScript? (Not using Ajax/XMLHttpRequest: it needs to be a <form>)
Feb 24 04:32:03 <torchie> you can type sideways
Feb 24 04:32:06 <torchie> or
Feb 24 04:32:07 <rwhitby> MetaView_: indeed
Feb 24 04:32:08 <torchie> you can get mad
Feb 24 04:32:10 <torchie> crazy
Feb 24 04:32:11 <torchie> straight
Feb 24 04:32:12 <torchie> u
Feb 24 04:32:13 <torchie> p
Feb 24 04:32:15 <torchie> HORZY
Feb 24 04:32:18 <MetaView_> rwhitby: but could be patchable, or?
Feb 24 04:32:24 <rwhitby> MetaView_: if you're not in the top 10, you're never going to be seen
Feb 24 04:32:36 <MetaView_> that's my concern :D
Feb 24 04:32:54 <SineOt> Xuzz: you sure you can't set the mime on your request to match that of a form submission
Feb 24 04:33:18 <MetaView_> Xuzz: create a valid form submit request?
Feb 24 04:33:47 <Xuzz> SineOt: I've really tried and even verified that my iOS and webOS apps are sending the exact same multipart/form-data request, but the webOS one (via Ajax) causes 500 errors from the server.
Feb 24 04:34:06 <torchie> errors?
Feb 24 04:34:08 <torchie> ERRORS?
Feb 24 04:34:08 <SineOt> I think you'd want like, application/x-www-form-urlencoded but I'm not positive
Feb 24 04:34:16 <MetaView_> maybe it refuses the identify string
Feb 24 04:34:38 <Xuzz> SineOt: the site I'm submitting to (http://pastie.org) uses multipart/form-data for the (sometimes large) submissions.
Feb 24 04:38:34 <MetaView_> Xuzz: http://pastie.org/1600890
Feb 24 04:38:37 <PatrickC_Pre> hay
Feb 24 04:38:43 <MetaView_> hi
Feb 24 04:39:37 <Xuzz> fwiw, this is what I'm using
Feb 24 04:39:39 <Xuzz> http://pastie.org/private/ldsmwmkyavflbq8ghr7yyw
Feb 24 04:40:20 <PatrickC_Pre> what's the best way to have random sayings pop up in an app?
Feb 24 04:40:21 <MetaView_> each value needs to have its boundary
Feb 24 04:40:25 <torchie> soooooooooo
Feb 24 04:40:27 <torchie> hyyyyyyyyyype
Feb 24 04:40:36 <MetaView_> oh, you do :)
Feb 24 04:40:49 <PatrickC_Pre> and how do I make them be at the very bottom of the app, whether it is a Pixi, Pre, or Pre3?
Feb 24 04:42:05 <Ctbeiser> Is it a known issue that very few patches (=1) are visible in preware, or did I do something wrong?
Feb 24 04:42:20 <rwhitby> no-one has submitted any 2.1.0 patches yet
Feb 24 04:42:40 <Ctbeiser> Oh, of course.
Feb 24 04:42:46 <MetaView_> there is no 2.1 on the portal
Feb 24 04:42:50 <torchie> I see an HP logo
Feb 24 04:43:02 <MetaView_> Toggle GSM works just fine, but i can't submit
Feb 24 04:43:49 <Ctbeiser> I was thinking I screwed up because I knew that there were 2.0 patches that were available that aren't now.
Feb 24 04:44:30 <PatrickC_Pre> use the 2.0.1 patches, most of them work
Feb 24 04:44:51 <PatrickC_Pre> I am working on getting the Advanced Menu Framwork patch working
Feb 24 04:45:59 <rwhitby> MetaView_: I enabled 2.1.0 on the portal about 15 minutes ago :)
Feb 24 04:46:03 <torchie> now for the scary parts
Feb 24 04:46:06 <torchie> Signing into palm profile
Feb 24 04:46:10 <MetaView_> oh, cool
Feb 24 04:46:19 <MetaView_> thx, I'm hurry
Feb 24 04:46:43 <PatrickC_Pre> google is not helping :/
Feb 24 04:46:49 <rwhitby> but I need to do other stuff before I can accept them :)
Feb 24 04:46:57 <MetaView_> no problem
Feb 24 04:47:05 <torchie> alright so step 5 comes after the palm profile login?
Feb 24 04:47:41 <PatrickC_Pre> can anyone point me in the right direction?
Feb 24 04:47:59 <PatrickC_Pre> I want to make random quotes appear at the bottom of my screen...
Feb 24 04:48:09 <torchie> mid progress bar
Feb 24 04:48:09 <PatrickC_Pre> and google is of no help :/
Feb 24 04:48:10 <sugardave> google: javascript random
Feb 24 04:48:11 <torchie> SETUP COMPLETE
Feb 24 04:48:14 <torchie> put a donk on it
Feb 24 04:48:14 <rwhitby> torchie: the "then after you log into your profile you ..." doesn't give it away?
Feb 24 04:48:21 <torchie> just saw it lol, sorry
Feb 24 04:48:22 <sugardave> google: css bottom position
Feb 24 04:48:57 <PatrickC_Pre> thanks sugardave lol
Feb 24 04:49:44 <PatrickC_Pre> can I use SSH with a computer that is offline?
Feb 24 04:50:36 <Ctbeiser> By offline, do you mean, off?
Feb 24 04:50:46 <sugardave> hahaha
Feb 24 04:50:59 <PatrickC_Pre> like, no internet on the computer :p
Feb 24 04:51:23 <Ctbeiser> Good.
Feb 24 04:51:43 <Ctbeiser> Google: SSH on LAN
Feb 24 04:52:04 <Xuzz> oh, weird MetaView_: my app does around 2+ minutes of the Ajax request, and then gives me a .status of 0 (zero), not even a real HTTP error code
Feb 24 04:52:41 <PatrickC_Pre> but, the computer has no wireless...
Feb 24 04:52:49 <MetaView_> Xuzz: the code you posted?
Feb 24 04:53:07 <MetaView_> Palm removed the dead-zone for touches in PDK apps
Feb 24 04:53:08 <Xuzz> MetaView_: yeah
Feb 24 04:53:17 <Ctbeiser> Google: Ethernet Lan
Feb 24 04:53:21 <MetaView_> Xuzz: I know my code works
Feb 24 04:53:22 <MetaView_> :)
Feb 24 04:53:24 <sugardave> Ctbeiser: give up
Feb 24 04:54:06 <Xuzz> MetaView_: I'll try it.
Feb 24 04:54:22 <sugardave> PatrickC_Pre: unless you have a physical connection via ehternet cable or USB cable OR a wireless connection via router or ad-hoc network, then no
Feb 24 04:54:39 <PatrickC_Pre> thanks sugardave
Feb 24 04:55:01 <Ctbeiser> Sugardave: I will not stand by as a potential constructive member of our society needs to learn The Google! *heroic pose*
Feb 24 04:55:14 <PatrickC_Pre> http://webos.pastebin.com/qaKuA9Qs I would use this to do random quotes?
Feb 24 04:55:17 <PatrickC_Pre> correct?
Feb 24 04:55:23 <sugardave> Ctbeiser: that is dedication
Feb 24 04:56:05 <sugardave> whoa
Feb 24 04:56:16 <sugardave> your randomizer is a lot more copmlex than it needs to be
Feb 24 04:56:16 <torchie> omgwebos2.1.0
Feb 24 04:56:17 <torchie> is
Feb 24 04:56:19 <torchie> SMOOTHER
Feb 24 04:56:22 * torchie flies around
Feb 24 04:56:24 * torchie just types
Feb 24 04:56:27 <PatrickC_Pre> Ctbeiser, just ask sugardave, he knows a lot about helping me :)
Feb 24 04:56:46 <torchie> oh my god
Feb 24 04:56:52 <torchie> so smoooooth
Feb 24 04:56:53 <PatrickC_Pre> sugardave, why?
Feb 24 04:57:18 <MetaView_> torchie: only the launcher is smooth and just type rocks
Feb 24 04:57:39 <PatrickC_Pre> torchie, angry birds yet?
Feb 24 04:57:49 <torchie> redownloading all my apps
Feb 24 04:57:55 <torchie> and I've got 7 gigs of data to transfer
Feb 24 04:57:56 <torchie> lol
Feb 24 04:57:58 <Ctbeiser> I saw something on perfectly random javascript a while back, just to complete the overkill
Feb 24 04:58:00 <PatrickC_Pre> awesome
Feb 24 04:58:00 <MetaView_> the launcher title is disturbing (can I have it removed? please!)
Feb 24 04:58:16 <torchie> hmm kind of odd how launcher's smoother than errthang else
Feb 24 04:58:19 <torchie> mojo limitation?
Feb 24 04:58:31 <MetaView_> optimization?
Feb 24 04:58:41 <torchie> hardware acceleration?
Feb 24 04:58:45 * torchie shrug
Feb 24 04:58:50 <torchie> this is awesome as hell though
Feb 24 04:58:57 <PatrickC_Pre> sheer awesomeness?
Feb 24 04:59:01 <Ctbeiser> Things I really like about 2.x: if you have 12 or less things on a page, they don't scroll!
Feb 24 04:59:19 <torchie> hey
Feb 24 04:59:21 <torchie> Preware is here!
Feb 24 04:59:27 <Ctbeiser> You can lay things out Android drawer style or iPhone style or some combo of the two.
Feb 24 04:59:31 <PatrickC_Pre> PREWARE FTW
Feb 24 04:59:31 <torchie> does the metadoctor preinstall that?
Feb 24 04:59:40 <Ctbeiser> It didn't for me.
Feb 24 04:59:46 <Ctbeiser> But it said it was going to.
Feb 24 04:59:48 <Ctbeiser> ymmv
Feb 24 05:00:47 <torchie> oh shoot in all the commotion I forgot to
Feb 24 05:00:55 <torchie> take care of step 5
Feb 24 05:01:02 <PatrickC_Pre> step five?
Feb 24 05:03:02 <torchie> palm-build-info-unmasqed: No such file or directory
Feb 24 05:03:56 <torchie> whoops got it
Feb 24 05:07:21 <sugardave> PatrickC_Pre: here's a simpler example: http://webos.pastebin.com/U5YmK2qb
Feb 24 05:07:29 <PatrickC_Pre> thanks
Feb 24 05:12:06 <PatrickC_Pre> sugardave, lemme guess, the first part goes into the stage-assistant and the second into the scene-assistant?
Feb 24 05:13:25 <Xuzz> MetaView_: thanks, your code put me back exactly where I already am
Feb 24 05:13:25 <sugardave> that's generic js
Feb 24 05:13:39 <Xuzz> MetaView_: (which means your code works great :p)
Feb 24 05:14:18 <sugardave> PatrickC_Pre: basically, you can adapt those two functions however you want and then call it however/wherever you want
Feb 24 05:14:35 <MetaView_> hehe
Feb 24 05:14:49 <PatrickC_Pre> ok thanks! (now to find the code to make it show up in the html)
Feb 24 05:15:04 <MetaView_> use the emulator and wireshark to sniff the http packets
Feb 24 05:15:49 <SineOt> $("fffdiv").update("herp a derp");
Feb 24 05:16:01 <sugardave> PatrickC_Pre: google: javascript dom elements
Feb 24 05:16:20 <PatrickC_Pre> ok
Feb 24 05:16:30 <sugardave> this.controller.get(element).update('New stuff');
Feb 24 05:29:18 <MetaView_> now you get an error dlg from webos when a PDK app crashs
Feb 24 05:37:17 <MetaView_> 4 updates submitted this morning, breakfast
Feb 24 05:41:24 <PatrickC_Pre> how come it is better to bind my handlers? what is the benefit?
Feb 24 05:42:11 <dkirker> If you want to use "this" in your handler the "proper" way, you'll need to bind.
Feb 24 05:42:21 <PatrickC_Pre> ok
Feb 24 05:42:24 <dkirker> You can also bind other variables.
Feb 24 05:56:55 <torchie> I see the bezel on the launcher bar is made to be large enough to obscure the space you'd touch for tiny card view
Feb 24 05:56:59 <torchie> TINY CARD VIEWWWWWW
Feb 24 05:57:03 * torchie cry falled out
Feb 24 06:04:51 <torchie> wait a minute...
Feb 24 06:04:54 <torchie> ...
Feb 24 06:05:01 <torchie> all of my stuff is still here :O
Feb 24 06:09:44 <CTLAdvance> The launcher also is a new c application
Feb 24 06:09:45 <CTLAdvance> not web
Feb 24 06:09:57 <CTLAdvance> so its alot smoother experience
Feb 24 06:10:47 <torchie> smooth as heeeeeel
Feb 24 06:10:57 <torchie> smooth as heel.
Feb 24 06:11:03 <CTLAdvance> Also I am not sure on patches for it, I doubt well see any, maybe a launcher replacement though
Feb 24 06:11:19 <Xuzz> this is in 2.1.0?
Feb 24 06:11:22 <torchie> is this sort of smoothness on the pre 2's non-launcher apps?
Feb 24 06:11:23 <CTLAdvance> Yes
Feb 24 06:11:32 <CTLAdvance> Huh?
Feb 24 06:11:39 <CTLAdvance> The launcher on the pre2 is like butter
Feb 24 06:11:49 <torchie> yeah
Feb 24 06:11:56 <torchie> it's awesome even on sprint pre
Feb 24 06:12:02 <CTLAdvance> Though the pre2 is missing alot
Feb 24 06:12:08 <CTLAdvance> no exhibition mode
Feb 24 06:12:24 <CTLAdvance> eh, I was underwhelmed by it on my sprint pre-
Feb 24 06:12:36 <CTLAdvance> not good
Feb 24 06:12:48 <CTLAdvance> I just want 2.1 released for Pre2
Feb 24 06:12:50 <torchie> I'm diggin it
Feb 24 06:12:52 <torchie> P
Feb 24 06:13:00 <CTLAdvance> :)
Feb 24 06:13:02 <CTLAdvance> good
Feb 24 06:13:10 <CTLAdvance> It was an improvement over 1.4.5
Feb 24 06:13:33 <torchie> on a side note, I'm quite surprised that all my media's still here
Feb 24 06:13:38 <bpadalino> i am a little surprised the unlocked pre2 doesn't get more updates
Feb 24 06:13:39 <torchie> big ol 7 gig backup for nothing lol
Feb 24 06:14:03 <dkirker> grrr... this thing has been stuck on 12% forever....!!!! :(
Feb 24 06:14:17 <dkirker> torchie: I did a 14.5 GB backup...
Feb 24 06:14:26 <torchie> I can only dream of such memory
Feb 24 06:14:26 <dkirker> maybe 12GB
Feb 24 06:15:16 <CTLAdvance> Eh Pre2 is like, no longer their pride and joy
Feb 24 06:15:22 <CTLAdvance> Pre3 seems to be
Feb 24 06:15:30 <CTLAdvance> though I hope we get different form factors
Feb 24 06:15:36 <torchie> too bad for that slate phone on sprint
Feb 24 06:15:37 * torchie cries 
Feb 24 06:15:41 <bpadalino> it seems to be everything unreleased to the public is their pride and joy :)
Feb 24 06:15:45 <CTLAdvance> slate phone?
Feb 24 06:15:46 <bpadalino> </zing>
Feb 24 06:15:55 <CTLAdvance> ouch
Feb 24 06:15:56 <torchie> lol
Feb 24 06:16:14 <CTLAdvance> I think in coming months is palms trade mark
Feb 24 06:16:19 <torchie> a 3.7 inch rugged slate's all I want
Feb 24 06:16:28 <CTLAdvance> why no 4.3
Feb 24 06:16:34 <CTLAdvance> or 4.5
Feb 24 06:16:35 <bpadalino> i heard HP will be adopting the phrase soon .. in the coming months
Feb 24 06:16:36 <torchie> Hewlett-Packard Corporation — Everybody in the Coming Months™
Feb 24 06:16:41 <torchie> because 4.3 is silly and 4.5 is dumb
Feb 24 06:16:55 <CTLAdvance> eh
Feb 24 06:16:57 <torchie> 3.7 might be pushing it
Feb 24 06:16:59 <CTLAdvance> Your sill and dumb
Feb 24 06:17:02 <torchie> SIR
Feb 24 06:17:03 <bpadalino> pre3 non slider would be fine
Feb 24 06:17:05 <torchie> I AM OFFENDED
Feb 24 06:17:11 <CTLAdvance> You should be
Feb 24 06:17:14 <CTLAdvance> for your statements
Feb 24 06:17:27 <CTLAdvance> :)
Feb 24 06:18:06 <torchie> hmm still haven't opened up the web browser
Feb 24 06:19:04 <CTLAdvance> I think instead of the Veer they should have launched a slate
Feb 24 06:19:09 <torchie> yeah seriously
Feb 24 06:19:17 <CTLAdvance> Unless they make the Veer free, I think its a whole bag of fail
Feb 24 06:19:18 <torchie> veer's a waste of time and resources
Feb 24 06:19:25 <torchie> unless they make the Veer $50 on contract
Feb 24 06:19:27 <CTLAdvance> yep, a whole bag of fail
Feb 24 06:19:36 <CTLAdvance> eh 50? You think
Feb 24 06:19:41 <torchie> erm
Feb 24 06:19:43 <torchie> off contract
Feb 24 06:19:44 <torchie> I meant.
Feb 24 06:19:56 <torchie> like a smartphone without a required data plan
Feb 24 06:20:01 <torchie> which is apparently an alien concept
Feb 24 06:20:16 <torchie> unless they make the veer -83 dollars on contract
Feb 24 06:20:20 <torchie> maybe even
Feb 24 06:20:33 <torchie> -526 dollars off contract
Feb 24 06:21:38 <torchie> really though why are they making this phone that's not even as good as the pixi was with none of the pixi's form-factor advantages
Feb 24 06:21:50 <CTLAdvance> by your stats here, your saying that the bag of fail is so big, it will generate its own level of failure on such a level that it will cause dynamic phone price restructuring that causes the fail sphere to grow in size
Feb 24 06:21:53 <CTLAdvance> interesting
Feb 24 06:22:09 <bpadalino> it's faster than the pixi - better battery most likely .. probably serves the centro market that is still pretty large?
Feb 24 06:22:24 <CTLAdvance> feature phone market you mean?
Feb 24 06:22:25 <CTLAdvance> :)
Feb 24 06:22:31 <CTLAdvance> I think thats there target with this
Feb 24 06:22:49 <CTLAdvance> Like, its your first cell phone market?
Feb 24 06:22:52 <bpadalino> they should just call it "Angry Birds and Facebook OMG" or something
Feb 24 06:22:57 <CTLAdvance> lol
Feb 24 06:23:10 <bpadalino> but sure, it'll appeal to that
Feb 24 06:23:16 <CTLAdvance> The OMG wait where did it go its so small I cant see it (tm) phone
Feb 24 06:23:21 <torchie> the segment of the market that'll get its ass kicked by LG optimus
Feb 24 06:23:59 <bpadalino> though i dunno - a veer and a touchpad is a pretty darn good combo
Feb 24 06:24:27 <torchie> they could have used the resources for the veer on a webos MID going up against ipod touch or maybe a slate phone or getting the pre 3 out faster...
Feb 24 06:24:50 <CTLAdvance> or they could have made a 4" with landscape slider
Feb 24 06:25:02 <CTLAdvance> called it the droidFucker (tm)
Feb 24 06:25:08 <CTLAdvance> or something like that
Feb 24 06:25:14 <torchie> and it can break in half and be unusable
Feb 24 06:25:17 <CTLAdvance> Epic droidFucker 4G
Feb 24 06:25:30 <CTLAdvance> Like the Pre-/+/Veer/Pre3 will/do?
Feb 24 06:25:49 <torchie> well the pre3'll break in half but the screen size is reasonable
Feb 24 06:26:15 <CTLAdvance> lol, its .2" smaller then the WP7 Pro dropping tomorrow
Feb 24 06:26:20 <CTLAdvance> .02"
Feb 24 06:26:22 <CTLAdvance> :)
Feb 24 06:26:22 <NuttyBunny> The iPhone 5 supposedly will come with a slide out keyboard :)
Feb 24 06:26:27 <CTLAdvance> Nice
Feb 24 06:26:32 <torchie> that's silly
Feb 24 06:26:37 <CTLAdvance> I heard it has a gold smelter/money printer on board
Feb 24 06:26:57 <CTLAdvance> part of the A5 chipset
Feb 24 06:27:08 <CTLAdvance> Printer on Chip
Feb 24 06:27:47 <torchie> wp7 pro looks nice except for how far away the screen goes from the keyboard and the whole thing where wp7 isn't designed for landscape usage
Feb 24 06:29:55 <CTLAdvance> eh the apps are
Feb 24 06:29:57 <CTLAdvance> just not the tiles
Feb 24 06:30:15 <CTLAdvance> and I dont have any clue why they didnt just rotate the freakin tiles on device rotation
Feb 24 06:30:22 <CTLAdvance> so easy in silverlight
Feb 24 06:30:37 <CTLAdvance> what do you mean the screen goes away
Feb 24 06:30:51 <CTLAdvance> very tight on the pro, the G2 has a separation issue
Feb 24 06:31:00 <CTLAdvance> anyways
Feb 24 06:31:19 <torchie> the screen slides to the tippitty edge of the keyboard area
Feb 24 06:31:28 <torchie> like driving a school bus to the edge of a cliff
Feb 24 06:31:31 <CTLAdvance> Ah yeah and then rotates up
Feb 24 06:31:38 <CTLAdvance> interesting
Feb 24 06:31:49 <torchie> double moving parts
Feb 24 06:31:52 <torchie> sickening
Feb 24 06:32:07 <CTLAdvance> So ill have a pre2 until we get the pre3, a wp7 pro, and need to find an android device I guess as well
Feb 24 06:32:12 <CTLAdvance> epic 4g seems to be the one
Feb 24 06:32:26 <torchie> I was considering epic at first for hummingbird and wolfson DAC
Feb 24 06:32:31 <torchie> but I think I may go for the evo instead
Feb 24 06:32:47 <CTLAdvance> Evo is nice, i just need to have a kyboard
Feb 24 06:32:54 <CTLAdvance> so its out for me
Feb 24 06:33:18 <CTLAdvance> But I am hoping we do get more webOS form factors soon...
Feb 24 06:33:26 <torchie> just really want a rugged slate lol
Feb 24 06:33:53 <CTLAdvance> I would take it if it had a big enough screen, for media consumption it would be nice
Feb 24 06:34:14 <CTLAdvance> They should make a dual screen flip phone... er
Feb 24 06:34:15 <CTLAdvance> oh wait
Feb 24 06:34:20 <CTLAdvance> thats fail as well
Feb 24 06:34:25 <torchie> lol
Feb 24 06:34:27 <torchie> kyocera derpo
Feb 24 06:34:30 <CTLAdvance> yep
Feb 24 06:34:34 <CTLAdvance> herpo derpo
Feb 24 06:34:36 <CTLAdvance> oy
Feb 24 06:34:45 <CTLAdvance> Now
Feb 24 06:34:51 <torchie> if kyocera made their own software for it instead of trying to adapt android into something it'll never be
Feb 24 06:34:52 <CTLAdvance> if they used their flex lcd
Feb 24 06:34:54 <torchie> maybe it'd work
Feb 24 06:34:58 <torchie> but they don't have the competency for that
Feb 24 06:35:03 <CTLAdvance> and made one flip device with a folding touch screen
Feb 24 06:35:13 <CTLAdvance> I mean HP
Feb 24 06:35:17 <CTLAdvance> not kyocera
Feb 24 06:35:30 <torchie> a folding touchscreen is a breaking touchscreen
Feb 24 06:35:35 <CTLAdvance> Kyocera devices still rock design queues like its 2004
Feb 24 06:35:47 <CTLAdvance> Not if they do it right
Feb 24 06:36:27 <CTLAdvance> you could make a morphoing capacitive sensor array, on folding plastic
Feb 24 06:36:30 <CTLAdvance> of some sort
Feb 24 06:36:36 <torchie> are there any usability advantages to such a thing?
Feb 24 06:36:39 <CTLAdvance> I think the screen would be harder
Feb 24 06:36:43 <CTLAdvance> Yes
Feb 24 06:36:51 <CTLAdvance> a 5" screen after folding
Feb 24 06:37:20 <CTLAdvance> You could use it for a wrist watch
Feb 24 06:37:29 <CTLAdvance> that goes 90% around the wrist
Feb 24 06:38:04 <torchie> nokia morph?
Feb 24 06:38:36 <CTLAdvance> lol - Do they have a morphing screen like HP
Feb 24 06:38:59 <torchie> they came up with a concept long ago for a nanocomputer phone that morphed into a wristwatch etc
Feb 24 06:39:10 <torchie> god asphalt5 is such a HUEG GAEM
Feb 24 06:40:27 <Xuzz> so, uh
Feb 24 06:40:33 <Xuzz> i just made an app, but like I don't own a Pre
Feb 24 06:40:44 <Xuzz> anyone wanna try for me? :)
Feb 24 06:41:21 <torchie> I think I may be riding the high from webos 2.1 too hard
Feb 24 06:41:36 <torchie> like suddenly my keyboard feels clickier and audio quality is better than already awesome
Feb 24 06:41:44 <torchie> halo effeeeeect
Feb 24 06:42:29 <CTLAdvance> lol are you using a different device
Feb 24 06:42:36 <CTLAdvance> LSD
Feb 24 06:42:51 <torchie> metadoctor 2.1.0 sprint pre has LSD in it yes
Feb 24 06:43:00 <torchie> and for this i shall donate
Feb 24 06:43:30 <torchie> shoot I still haven't tried browser
Feb 24 07:19:40 <swisstomcat> morning
Feb 24 07:27:41 <roy-pre101> Halloo
Feb 24 07:28:33 <swisstomcat> what's up?
Feb 24 07:47:52 <dkirker> 'morning swisstomcat
Feb 24 07:48:07 <hotdp> welcome melchiorsen_ and
Feb 24 07:48:08 <swisstomcat> yo
Feb 24 07:48:20 <swisstomcat> oh, another danish user
Feb 24 07:48:52 <swisstomcat> godmorgen!
Feb 24 07:49:32 <hotdp> yeehaar :D
Feb 24 07:49:43 <melchiorsen_> morning. yup danish :)
Feb 24 07:49:48 <hotdp> we are not doubled up
Feb 24 07:51:22 <swisstomcat> double trouble
Feb 24 07:51:26 <swisstomcat> :)
Feb 24 07:52:29 <hotdp> :P
Feb 24 08:30:21 * djwhitey is away: sleep
Feb 24 11:25:02 * Hendikins tries out 2.1.0 on his AT&T Pre Plus
Feb 24 12:23:28 <Hendikins> Woohoo, the PDF viewer might finally be working properly.
Feb 24 12:25:21 <swisstomcat> 2.1?
Feb 24 12:37:15 <Hendikins> swisstomcat: Yeah. I've got an important file that has been a nuisance on 1.4.5 and 2.0.1, which suddenly seems to be working again (it worked on 1.4.2)
Feb 24 12:37:38 <hotdp> coo
Feb 24 12:37:39 <hotdp> l
Feb 24 12:41:10 <Hendikins> At the very least, I can confidently say it isn't /worse/ than 1.4.5/2.0.1.
Feb 24 12:42:24 <Hendikins> (2.0.1 being on my Pre2, so no shenanigans going on... this time)
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 24 17:26:17 2011
Feb 24 17:57:15 <Umren> is there exact day in new devices release date?
Feb 24 17:57:33 <maik> no
Feb 24 17:57:57 <maik> rumors are flying though.  some people are saying touchpad will ship in April
Feb 24 18:00:21 <Umren> and veer/pre 3?
Feb 24 18:00:32 <dumbledore> anyone got 2.1 running on pre minus?
Feb 24 18:00:33 <Umren> march?
Feb 24 18:01:03 <maik> Umren: i said that was a rumor, no idea about anything else.  it's likely still going to be summer
Feb 24 18:02:47 <Umren> is webos will be only on HP's devices? no other vendors like android?
Feb 24 18:05:58 <CTLAdvance> You wont see any devices from HP for the coming months most likely this summer
Feb 24 18:06:10 <maik> Umren: webOS is HP-only for now
Feb 24 18:06:15 <Umren> well i mean long term
Feb 24 18:06:27 <CTLAdvance> HP wants to own it like apple and IOS
Feb 24 18:06:42 <maik> it's hard to say.  PalmOS was only ever released on Palm hardware, they'll likely keep that up
Feb 24 18:06:47 <maik> but who knows, times are changing
Feb 24 18:06:48 <CTLAdvance> there wont be any other partners
Feb 24 18:07:02 <CTLAdvance> Not unless their plan fails
Feb 24 18:28:31 <dumbledore> anyone have any clue how to setup an airave
Feb 24 18:28:46 <dumbledore> im afraid im gonna set it up and sprints gonna charge me for voip
Feb 24 18:39:38 <cwayne1> the "downloads" on developer.palm.com only counts unique dl's right?  no updates?
Feb 24 18:42:38 <CTLAdvance> now its only unique dl;s after payment has been processed
Feb 24 18:42:52 <CTLAdvance> so some may not be included if payment is still being processed
Feb 24 18:44:00 <cwayne1> so for free ones, just unique dl's
Feb 24 18:44:51 <CTLAdvance> yes
Feb 24 18:45:11 <cwayne1> hmm, thanks
Feb 24 18:45:36 <ajay_> heya!
Feb 24 18:46:21 <cwayne1> hi ajay_
Feb 24 18:48:33 <ajay_> hey folks, anybody here in the vicinity of Palm HQ?
Feb 24 18:48:54 <halfhalo> we have already tried to break in, it doesn't work, trust me
Feb 24 18:48:59 <ajay_> haha
Feb 24 18:49:06 <ajay_> half:
Feb 24 18:49:45 <ajay_> halfhalo: took me a sec to realize you were talking to me.. actually "breaking in" is not a recommended path to get in anywhere, from what I hear :)
Feb 24 18:51:26 <halfhalo> It got me where I am today!
Feb 24 18:51:51 <ajay_> I'm actually interested in having a webOS meetup in the Silicon Valley/Bay Area. anyone interested?
Feb 24 18:52:01 <halfhalo> bah, yuppies
Feb 24 18:52:04 <halfhalo> :p
Feb 24 18:55:31 <ajay_> hm, ok, i guess i'll hvae to come back when others are here.. ;^)
Feb 24 18:55:42 <ajay_> Adora: you around?
Feb 24 18:56:38 <ajay_> I emailled this guy, Toby Morning, who runs meetup.com/svpalmpre about having a meetup as that group hasn't had one at least in years, and if not, to step down as organizer or rename the group.
Feb 24 18:58:00 <torchie> yeah 2.1.0 on pre- if I open twee and a browser page
Feb 24 18:58:01 <torchie> dead
Feb 24 18:58:11 <torchie> and pages don't seem to open half the time -- RAM issue?
Feb 24 18:58:29 <torchie> also Palm licensed palm OS out to sony for their clie handhelds
Feb 24 18:58:30 <ajay_> he responded by saying "you more then likely work for LAME ASS PALM, so get a life, and stop emailing and complaining like a little kid."  Ironic, I know. definitely rude. I wonder if the fact that Palm holds the (TM) to "Palm" can give them power with meetup.com to take action
Feb 24 18:59:19 <torchie> interesting if it was done again given sony's got no credibility in the android world
Feb 24 18:59:36 <torchie> but licensing out an OS is the first step to dicking it up
Feb 24 19:00:01 <ajay_> torchie: does one need "credibility in the android world"? i mean, who would care about that?
Feb 24 19:00:40 <torchie> well credibility in the sense of having people that think you make good android phones
Feb 24 19:00:48 <torchie> which sony ericsson has a habit of... not doing
Feb 24 19:01:01 <ajay_> torchie: do they not make good phones? I haven't followed them..
Feb 24 19:01:10 <torchie> even the new line of gingerbreads looks pretty weak compared to the competition
Feb 24 19:01:48 <torchie> ajay_: Xperia X1 came out with 1.6 I believe despite having a snapdragon processor, and didn't get upgraded for so long; also didn't have multitouch
Feb 24 19:02:40 <torchie> compare that to moto milestone which came before, and the nexus one and evo who came at similar times
Feb 24 19:05:40 <torchie> and then they put skins on their devices that are significantly choppier and slower than stock android, sense, motoblur, and touchwiz
Feb 24 19:06:11 <cwayne1> have they announced which carriers the pre3 and veer will be on?
Feb 24 19:06:20 <torchie> nope
Feb 24 19:06:46 <ajay_> cwayne1: I'm sure you'll hear it in big letters in WOR,P|C (and here0 if they do :)
Feb 24 19:07:14 <cwayne1> ajay_: heh
Feb 24 19:11:32 <dumbledore> what is the comms board in charge of on the pre
Feb 24 19:12:34 <haeffb_pre> comms
Feb 24 19:12:45 <haeffb_pre> radios
Feb 24 19:12:52 <haeffb_pre> mebbe gps?
Feb 24 19:13:25 <dumbledore> lol. data too?
Feb 24 19:13:48 <dumbledore> sorry for sounding like an idiot. i just want to know if im swapping over the correct parts.
Feb 24 19:15:36 <ajay_> dumbledore: there are a lOT of guides online, you're using one I hope!
Feb 24 19:15:54 <ajay_> yeah i guess the guides aren't very descriptive, that's too bad..
Feb 24 19:16:32 <dumbledore> yeah. i just need one to instruct me on how to dismantle the pre.
Feb 24 19:22:02 <idontwan2know> dumbledore, the comms board also handles charging
Feb 24 19:26:49 <dumbledore> comms board sounds like a pretty important guy
Feb 24 19:26:51 <dumbledore> :3
Feb 24 19:27:58 <cwayne1> eh does comms and doesn't afraid of anything
Feb 24 19:30:01 <SineOt> You know, I feel a lot better after this mock interview I did XD
Feb 24 19:30:44 <SineOt> it's sad to hear that people with Masters in Computer Science sometimes can't articulate what a float does in CSS
Feb 24 19:32:43 <summatusmentis> it's really all dependent on your specialization
Feb 24 19:32:51 <idontwan2know> masters in CS = drank several metric tons of mountain dew and is a wizard at perl
Feb 24 19:33:25 <SineOt> sugardave: if you're applying for a JS/CSS position at a company, regardless of your specialization, it'd be a good thing to at least know what floats do :p
Feb 24 19:33:49 <summatusmentis> I'm not sugardave, and yes, that's probably true
Feb 24 19:34:07 <summatusmentis> but my only point is that it doesn't really have anything to do with schooling
Feb 24 19:34:13 * ajay_ is glad he's not the only one with nick-completion issues :)
Feb 24 19:34:31 <dumbledore> "cwayne1> eh does comms and doesn't afraid of anything"
Feb 24 19:34:38 <dumbledore> rofl i wasnt expecting anyone to say that :D
Feb 24 19:34:47 <SineOt> oh, durp. Oh tab nick completion~
Feb 24 19:35:04 <SineOt> summatusmentis: yeah, but that's mostly what has me feeling better :p
Feb 24 19:35:25 <SineOt> is that it turns out I actually know this stuff that gets looked for in interviews even if I'm not a BA in some computer science or something
Feb 24 19:35:27 <summatusmentis> hah, fair enough
Feb 24 19:35:53 <SineOt> I can explain nth-child selectors! XD
Feb 24 19:36:04 <cwayne1> dumbledore: haha
Feb 24 19:38:38 <dumbledore> yay doctor is finished making :D time to flash
Feb 24 19:38:51 <ajay_> dumbledore: how dare you flash in our presence!
Feb 24 19:39:27 <dumbledore> :(
Feb 24 19:39:40 <dumbledore> i just wanted to show off my sexy belly fat
Feb 24 19:39:51 <SineOt> lol
Feb 24 19:40:14 <dumbledore> :3
Feb 24 19:40:54 * oilsworkn doesnt want to be blinded
Feb 24 19:41:14 * dumbledore gives oilsworkn a pair of sun glasses
Feb 24 19:41:16 <joetweeply> go belly fat
Feb 24 19:41:25 <dumbledore> :D
Feb 24 19:41:28 <joetweeply> it's a real mans six pack... just inside
Feb 24 19:41:30 <cwayne1> lol
Feb 24 19:41:35 <cwayne1> joetweeply: keg
Feb 24 19:41:40 <joetweeply> yeah
Feb 24 19:42:17 <dumbledore> lol
Feb 24 19:43:30 <oilsworkn> the pony keg?
Feb 24 19:45:01 <joetweeply> tonight we drink to patrick swayzee... because today is his birthday
Feb 24 19:45:14 <SineOt> have to watch out or you end up with one of those massive copper fermentation kettles :p
Feb 24 19:46:42 <oilsworkn> when they need to remove the roof and bring in a crane to get you outta bed its time to stop eating
Feb 24 19:47:27 <idontwan2know> does anyone know if it matters what order the tokens are in in castle.xml?
Feb 24 19:47:30 <SineOt> and time to get yourself a TV show
Feb 24 19:49:12 <joebpre> yo
Feb 24 19:49:13 <SineOt> applications with forced window sizes taller than 578 can go to hell :C
Feb 24 19:49:36 * ajay_ is having to rename all his skype contacts bc of webOS 2.1.0, gah .. :)
Feb 24 19:49:47 <dumbledore> lol
Feb 24 19:49:50 <dumbledore> shit
Feb 24 19:49:55 <dumbledore> gah
Feb 24 19:50:01 * dumbledore is away: logging into profile on pixi
Feb 24 19:50:02 <oilsworkn> what, did snape kill you?
Feb 24 19:54:40 <MetaView> more people in #webos-internals than here
Feb 24 19:56:09 <SineOt> probably because that's where you talk about metadoctor :p
Feb 24 19:56:25 <MetaView> I'm not talking about this :p
Feb 24 20:29:21 <sugardave> SineOt: since leafly wants you to do non-commercial work, why not put it up on github and let all the stoner/coders work on it?
Feb 24 20:29:40 <SineOt> I guesssss I could do that
Feb 24 20:29:58 <SineOt> but they'll ruin my artistic vision ;p
Feb 24 20:30:14 <sugardave> you don't have to accept all the pull requests ;)
Feb 24 20:32:25 <sugardave> SineOt: I can make a project if you want and set you (and the other guy?) up as maintainers
Feb 24 20:32:38 <sugardave> then the 3 of us have the final say on what goes in
Feb 24 20:33:30 <sugardave> heh, I didn't see you disconnected
Feb 24 20:33:36 <sugardave> SineOt: are you alive?
Feb 24 20:33:45 <SineOt> yup yup
Feb 24 20:33:51 <SineOt> I am now at least, not sure what happened there
Feb 24 20:33:57 <sugardave> SineOt: I can make a project if you want and set you (and the other guy?) up as maintainers
Feb 24 20:34:01 <sugardave> then the 3 of us have the final say on what goes in
Feb 24 20:34:11 <sugardave> repeated for your convenience :P
Feb 24 20:34:15 <SineOt> hee
Feb 24 20:34:27 <SineOt> well, let me get started on something and then we'll see how it's going
Feb 24 20:34:36 <sugardave> alrighty
Feb 24 20:34:38 <SineOt> it's a good excuse to learn more about AJAX and JSON handling
Feb 24 20:34:44 <SineOt> something I need to do anyways
Feb 24 20:34:49 <sugardave> easy-peasy
Feb 24 20:35:19 <SineOt> man, I love asking about fixes to an API and then having the site maintainer be like, "oh sure what do you need, I'll do it"
Feb 24 20:35:37 <SineOt> "you didn't ask for this but I added it anyways"
Feb 24 20:38:25 <rwhitby> morning.  I lost backlog from the last 8 hours.
Feb 24 20:38:44 <SineOt> morning rwhitby
Feb 24 20:38:52 <SineOt> and afternoon, chuqui
Feb 24 20:40:05 <chuqui> SineOt:  howdee
Feb 24 20:40:17 <Draecos> chuqui!!!
Feb 24 20:40:21 <Draecos> need to talk to you
Feb 24 20:40:25 <SineOt> chuqui: is there any estimate on when the devmarketing Pre2 emails should be getting answers sent out, or should I wait a month again? ;3
Feb 24 20:40:32 <Draecos> you might have seen the post on the forums
Feb 24 20:40:56 <chuqui> SineOt: I dunno. I do know whenever I go to ask status they throw stuff at me and lock the door. All I see are piles of papers...
Feb 24 20:41:10 <SineOt> hehe
Feb 24 20:41:34 <halfhalo> throw stuff back!
Feb 24 20:41:44 <SineOt> pineapples work pretty well for that
Feb 24 20:42:00 <Draecos> chuqui are you free for a chat?
Feb 24 20:42:15 <chuqui> Draecos: on what?
Feb 24 20:42:32 <SineOt> chuqui: are the dev marketing people completely separate from the folks that would have handled the Pre+ dev program?
Feb 24 20:43:28 <chuqui> SineOt: some overlap, but not the same.
Feb 24 20:43:38 <Draecos> Groovephase started a thread on the forums about uk/europe dev meets
Feb 24 20:43:49 <Draecos> decended into a bit of interest
Feb 24 20:43:53 <SineOt> I'll spare my poor Pre+ dev contact questions about the Pre2 program then :]
Feb 24 20:44:07 <Draecos> wondered if there might be any interest or help from HPalm?
Feb 24 20:44:21 <Draecos> not expecting you guys to organise or anything I think
Feb 24 20:44:26 <Draecos> just some input
Feb 24 20:44:44 <Draecos> thoughts?
Feb 24 20:45:22 <chuqui> Draecos: I just posted a reply in the forums on that.
Feb 24 20:46:33 <Draecos> yep read
Feb 24 20:46:39 <Draecos> all fair points
Feb 24 20:46:52 <chuqui> Draecos: it's way too early to think we can do an event over there -- because we need to be all hands on the touchpad for now. but our management came back from Barcelona with a much more aware view of potential over there. so I'm hopeful we can do something down the road.
Feb 24 20:47:38 <Draecos> I think all understand that hence the view of the community on there to do our own, perhaps with Palm endorcement sort of thing
Feb 24 20:47:47 <Draecos> I used to work in events so I know its not a small task :)
Feb 24 20:48:54 <chuqui> we are actively trying to foster group meetups again. I was in a meeting yesterday where we talked about that and started thinking of ways to help foster them.
Feb 24 20:49:25 <Draecos> ok so, if we do try to organise a community based meeting, can we count on any help or resources from Palm?
Feb 24 20:49:32 <sugardave> crap, HP has no developers for webOS: http://www.infoworld.com/d/the-industry-standard/hps-webos-strategy-dont-make-me-laugh-457
Feb 24 20:49:53 <Draecos> thats just some old bloke who loves this Windows mobile 5 i reckon
Feb 24 20:53:26 <chuqui> yawn.
Feb 24 20:53:58 <SineOt> chuqui: totally outside and probably pointless, but if Palm started shipping "meet up kits" to people hosting events, that'd be awesome :p (posters, stickers, that sort of thing. love the posters from the Feb9th event)
Feb 24 20:54:11 <SineOt> only complaint with the feb 9th posters is that... Ikea doesn't carry 18x24 frames
Feb 24 20:54:28 <Draecos> thats the kind of thing im referring to SineOt
Feb 24 20:54:33 <joetweeply> i'd love to have an event in germany
Feb 24 20:54:43 <chuqui> SineOt: actually, meetup kits was part of the discussion.
Feb 24 20:54:59 <Draecos> not neccessarily for Palm to offer any monetry help but kit like that would be handy
Feb 24 20:55:01 <SineOt> I've got my choice of like 16x22 or 19x26 XB
Feb 24 20:55:22 <chuqui> put a mat around it.
Feb 24 20:55:32 <Draecos> chuqui, i take it we couldnt expect any help from Palm at the moment then?
Feb 24 20:55:41 <SineOt> chuqui: those are the matted sizes
Feb 24 20:55:47 <chuqui> depends on what you mean by help.
Feb 24 20:56:01 <Draecos> what could you offer
Feb 24 20:56:04 <SineOt> I'll get around to it eventually, but I had been hoping to avoid having to cut custom sized mats for them
Feb 24 20:56:14 <nebula> four pounds of chex mix
Feb 24 20:56:17 <SineOt> Draecos: probably a thumbs up and "that'a boy"
Feb 24 20:56:19 <Draecos> as I said I think the community seem to be interested in organising
Feb 24 20:56:25 <Draecos> yer SineOt lol
Feb 24 20:56:34 <Draecos> "gee thanks"
Feb 24 20:56:37 <Draecos> :)
Feb 24 20:56:39 <ajay_> chuqui: speaking of meetups what's the plans for a local meet?
Feb 24 20:56:47 <chuqui> I wouldn't expect bodies there. but a skype conference? Possibly. schwag? we could probably get some stuff out there for giveaways. have to check the goodie closet.
Feb 24 20:56:51 * SineOt gives Draecos a thumbs up and a "webOS numbah one" foam finger
Feb 24 20:57:08 <Draecos> chuqui, better than nowt
Feb 24 20:57:18 <rwhitby> SineOt: the meet-up schwag happens at the moment for anyone who asks, as far as I can tell.
Feb 24 20:57:29 <Draecos> some input from webos devs (being a dev event) would be good via skype
Feb 24 20:57:36 <Draecos> if viable
Feb 24 20:57:39 <chuqui> ajay_:  trying to get there. our resources got tied up in the 9th event, still digging out from the huge positive response.
Feb 24 20:57:52 <ajay_> I contacted the organizer on meetup.com about organizing a meetup or stepping down as organizer, and he rm'd me from the meetup.
Feb 24 20:57:52 <SineOt> rwhitby: I was aiming for bottom of the barrel support, but that's cool to know :3
Feb 24 20:58:05 <rwhitby> SineOt: e.g. we've had events in the US and Europe were we've been able to get schwag and even phones for give-aways.  Just need to ask.
Feb 24 20:58:18 <SineOt> yeah, but you're also webos-internals ;P
Feb 24 20:58:35 <SineOt> I'll have to see about maybe getting something for the Socal meet up that is kind of sputtering at the moment
Feb 24 20:58:39 <Draecos> rwhitby, thats good too know depends on if old Chuq is up for that
Feb 24 20:58:52 <rwhitby> SineOt: I expect it depends on the crowd you are going to draw, not who you are.
Feb 24 20:58:52 <nebula> young Chuq you mean
Feb 24 20:58:53 * halfhalo ignores the socal meetup stuff
Feb 24 20:58:56 <Draecos> plus you are kinda special so get special gifts :)
Feb 24 20:59:08 <chuqui> adora takes point on schwag most of the time. but either of us is a good starting point.
Feb 24 20:59:18 * SineOt puts halfhalo in a cardboard box and floats him down the LA river
Feb 24 20:59:19 <rwhitby> if you've never asked, you won't get :)
Feb 24 20:59:28 <Draecos> indeed
Feb 24 21:00:01 <Draecos> chuqui, dont spose you guys have a list of UK registered devs that we would contact?
Feb 24 21:00:09 <Draecos> or you could contact on behalf
Feb 24 21:02:24 <chuqui> giving you a list -- no. doing a mailing, we'd have to consider.
Feb 24 21:03:09 <Draecos> ok thanks. Only way I can see we could get in contact as I expect not all idle in here
Feb 24 21:05:28 <SineOt> Draecos: you could also post on the dev forums and PreCentral about it
Feb 24 21:05:55 <SineOt> you'll always miss a few people, but that's to be expected I suppose
Feb 24 21:06:41 <Draecos> fair point
Feb 24 21:07:37 <SineOt> best way to get people is word of mouth, but you've got to get it in a few mouths first :]
Feb 24 21:07:48 <ajay_> was i missing?
Feb 24 21:09:37 <ajay_> hm, looks like i was.. man freenode is so bad this week..
Feb 24 21:11:21 <SineOt> yeah, dunno what's up with it
Feb 24 21:13:15 <rwhitby> chuqui: BTW, it would be *really* good if Jason could be given some sort of waiver to release his webOS 2.0-compatible Internalz and FileManagerService packages ...
Feb 24 21:13:52 <rwhitby> Having developers who have created packages for webOS 2.0 (your currently shipping OS version) and not being allowed to release them is ludicrous and frankly embarrassing for HP.
Feb 24 21:15:11 <haeffb_pre> ditto for not being able to share / discuss the code
Feb 24 21:15:14 <ajay__> man, if i was split the weird thing was i didn't even know..
Feb 24 21:15:58 <ajay__> It looks like others have been given waivers, has Jason been declined?
Feb 24 21:17:03 <rwhitby> none of the others use node.js services.  a feature that was widely publicised by Palm, so could hardly be considered a secret competitive advantage that needs to be protected by NDA still
Feb 24 21:17:26 <rwhitby> A feature that you can also see in action on a publicly released webOS 2.0 device
Feb 24 21:18:39 <chuqui> rwhitby: yeah, it would.
Feb 24 21:18:43 <chuqui> rwhitby: it's -- complicated.
Feb 24 21:18:45 <ajay_> djwhitey: but the others use features still under NDA (eg mic api), so seems it would be the same
Feb 24 21:18:57 <ajay_> oops.. s/djwhitey/rwhitby :)
Feb 24 21:19:24 <maik> JC Whitney ?
Feb 24 21:19:38 <halfhalo> wallmart?
Feb 24 21:19:50 * ajay_ omgs, what's going on
Feb 24 21:19:50 <maik> HO TEL MO TEL HOLIDAY INNNNN
Feb 24 21:21:40 <maik> oil
Feb 24 21:22:23 <ajay_> chuqui: going back to my pre-split life.. what do you think of me organizing a non-palm-sanctioned meetup in the meantime til you folks are more free?
Feb 24 21:24:36 <chuqui> ajay_:  I think it's a neat idea.
Feb 24 21:24:55 <dkirker> hi chuqui!
Feb 24 21:25:53 <ajay_> chuqui: and do you think I could get in touch with Legal to ask this dude to step down (and off) of the two palm/webOS grps?
Feb 24 21:25:54 <chuqui> dkirker:  hey!
Feb 24 21:26:36 <chuqui> ajay_:  probably not. not sure how best to deal with that. It's sorta the wild west.
Feb 24 21:27:10 <ajay_> chuqui: even a toothless cease-and-desist could be enough
Feb 24 21:27:23 * halfhalo votes don't
Feb 24 21:27:56 <halfhalo> that opens the door for a path best left untaken
Feb 24 21:28:44 <ajay_> halfhalo: something's gotta be done..
Feb 24 21:28:50 <ajay_> halfhalo: I'm open to suggestions
Feb 24 21:29:07 <chuqui> I'd push this through the site hosting the event announcements. not using a lawyer. and I certainly don't think an HP/Palm lawyer would do that.
Feb 24 21:29:16 <SineOt> gather a militia
Feb 24 21:29:38 <halfhalo> start a new group
Feb 24 21:29:57 <SineOt> brutal oppression
Feb 24 21:30:03 <SineOt> kidnap webos devices in the middle of the night
Feb 24 21:30:06 <ajay_> chuqui: yeah i did.. they suggested i start a third meetup group ! haha
Feb 24 21:30:07 <chuqui> groundswell of support.
Feb 24 21:30:17 <chuqui> so, start a third.
Feb 24 21:30:36 <ajay_> can i call it the OFFICIAL meetup group?
Feb 24 21:32:09 <ajay_> it'd just be sad to have the meetup grp that's been used for the last few years left intact-looking, fooling people, getting people to think that palm is sponsoring some other company's events
Feb 24 21:32:12 <dkirker> shhh everyone, Adora is back! :P
Feb 24 21:32:27 <SineOt> hey Adora
Feb 24 21:32:47 * rwhitby must have missed the context of ajay_'s discussion
Feb 24 21:32:47 <ajay_> s/getting people to think/leaving people seeing/
Feb 24 21:33:06 <SineOt> Adora: if your nightmares have Mojo gone bad in them, you might need a vacation! :p
Feb 24 21:33:14 <Adora> ajay_:  +1
Feb 24 21:33:18 <ajay_> rwhitby: both of the local (Silicon Valley) Palm/webOS meetup groups have been hijacked by some corporate shill
Feb 24 21:33:27 <SineOt> rwhitby: there's some meetup groups for webOS that are getting run by a BRUTAL DESPOT
Feb 24 21:33:39 * halfhalo didn't do it
Feb 24 21:33:50 <Adora> if someone wants to take those groups over, I will totally help
Feb 24 21:33:56 <dkirker> ajay_: That is unfortunate...
Feb 24 21:34:00 <rwhitby> hey, there's not allowed to be another brutal depot in this community! that's my job!
Feb 24 21:34:12 <rwhitby> s/depot/despot/
Feb 24 21:34:17 <dkirker> Adora: I would love to help! I was looking at starting back up SPUG as some webOS/HP user group. :)
Feb 24 21:34:20 <Adora> I have exchanged emails with that guy and want hi to gtfo of my community
Feb 24 21:34:20 <SineOt> rwhitby: you need to brush up on your brutality then!
Feb 24 21:34:22 <ajay_> Adora: yes!
Feb 24 21:34:24 <Adora> s/hi/him
Feb 24 21:34:35 <ajay_> and looks like rwhitby is down too :)
Feb 24 21:34:47 <ajay_> Adora: +1
Feb 24 21:34:56 <dkirker> ajay_: You're in the Valley?
Feb 24 21:35:02 <ajay_> dkirker: yeah, you?
Feb 24 21:35:11 <dkirker> ajay_: Moving there on Saturday. :D
Feb 24 21:35:26 <Adora> dkirker:  \o/
Feb 24 21:35:34 <ajay_> anyone have suggestions on how to proceed with taking over these meetup groups?
Feb 24 21:35:48 * halfhalo is in the _cool_ valley... San Fernando Valley
Feb 24 21:35:52 <ajay_> dkirker: nice! we'll hold a housewarming meetup for you :)
Feb 24 21:35:52 <Adora> ajay_ and dkirker:  email me
Feb 24 21:35:56 <ajay_> halfhalo: that sounds hot!
Feb 24 21:36:03 <ajay_> Adora: what's your email?
Feb 24 21:36:06 * rwhitby surmises that Adora has more brutality than I do ... ;)
Feb 24 21:36:06 <dkirker> Adora: Email going out asap!
Feb 24 21:36:09 <Adora> lisa.brewster@palm.com
Feb 24 21:36:27 <ajay_> who else wants to help?
Feb 24 21:36:32 <Adora> I suggest co-organizing, for sure
Feb 24 21:36:33 <rwhitby> Adora: in a good way of course :)
Feb 24 21:37:14 <Adora> I'll start a conversation with meetup.com some kind of way to see what our options are
Feb 24 21:37:17 <ajay_> at least if folks can start emailling him to pressure him to go, that'd be great! here are the groups: meetup.com/svpalmpre/ and http://meetup.com/palm-webos
Feb 24 21:37:46 <SineOt> how did this guy end up in charge of those groups anyways?
Feb 24 21:37:51 <rwhitby> ajay_: what's the dude's name?
Feb 24 21:37:54 <dkirker> So just so that I know, what has this guy done/been doing?
Feb 24 21:38:10 <ajay_> the first should probably just be closed or renamed, it hasn't had any real webOS meetups it looks like
Feb 24 21:38:12 <dkirker> Oh, eww Start UP Camp
Feb 24 21:38:14 <Adora> toby runs these startup camps
Feb 24 21:38:19 <Adora> so tacky
Feb 24 21:38:22 <ajay_> rwhitby: all the info is on the site
Feb 24 21:38:24 <dkirker> I have been getting their emails wanting money to attend
Feb 24 21:38:35 <Adora> hijacked the groups then demanded we sponsor him
Feb 24 21:38:47 <ajay_> SineOt: good question..
Feb 24 21:38:49 <SineOt> ahaha... man, he's even got his hnads on the LA group
Feb 24 21:38:56 <halfhalo> BOO
Feb 24 21:38:57 <ajay_> SineOt: wow!
Feb 24 21:39:01 <rwhitby> heh, Adora doesn't respond well to demands :)
Feb 24 21:39:02 <Adora> and another in miami
Feb 24 21:39:03 <SineOt> then I'm all for getting him to step down
Feb 24 21:39:04 <ajay_> Adora: wow!
Feb 24 21:39:12 <ajay_> (about the sponsor)
Feb 24 21:39:20 <SineOt> ajay_: sign me up for this WEBOS REVOLUTION :B
Feb 24 21:39:22 <ajay_> how many groups does Palm sponsor?
Feb 24 21:39:26 <ajay_> SineOt: yay!
Feb 24 21:39:27 <Adora> rwhitby:  we seriously evaluated it and some folks wanted to go for it
Feb 24 21:39:40 <SineOt> Adora: I'm way glad that you didn't go for it
Feb 24 21:39:49 <Adora> but I insisted that it was a bad idea, that he's a slimeball
Feb 24 21:39:51 <ajay_> Adora: uh, you guys are sponsoring it, sorry to tell you!
Feb 24 21:40:03 <Adora> ajay_:  no, we're not...that's him being slimy
Feb 24 21:40:09 <ajay_> Adora: oh what!
Feb 24 21:40:21 <ajay_> seriously?!
Feb 24 21:40:26 <Adora> but more ammo I can use to say that we do not endorse this group and want to give control to folks we do endorse
Feb 24 21:40:28 <ajay_> The palm logo is a fake?! WTF!?
Feb 24 21:41:05 * ajay_ says everyone, 1, 2, 3 - "YAY FOR ADORA!"
Feb 24 21:41:16 <SineOt> "I have been an investor in set top box makers, software company's, clothing company's, Raves, and Hip Hop concerts in my younger years." ahaha, this makes me laugh
Feb 24 21:41:40 <brajesh> Hi ..I want to create an application based on Text to speech(TTS). I want to use Flite. I am not able to understand how to use it? i am not able to understand what alll we have to compile? can ayone guide me..
Feb 24 21:41:43 <SineOt> Protip: if you're writing a professional Linked In Profile do NOT screw up company's versus companies
Feb 24 21:42:13 <ajay_> Feel free to make your meetup.com using a secondary/throwaway email folks, he might kick you out of the group for emailling him
Feb 24 21:42:21 <dkirker> SineOt: EWWWWW!
Feb 24 21:42:24 * dkirker pukes
Feb 24 21:42:25 <Adora> anyway, this has been on my radar as something we need to fix, and having interested people to take it over is step 1
Feb 24 21:42:36 <Adora> but I've got a lot on my plate right now and won't be able to get to step 2 right away
Feb 24 21:42:49 <SineOt> well hey, just getting step 1 lined up is a huge step forward
Feb 24 21:43:09 <SineOt> because I know there is no way this guy can realistically do justice to four groups in four different places
Feb 24 21:43:16 <Adora> hefty side dish on said plate....trying to book a trip to LA this weekend
Feb 24 21:43:20 <dkirker> Adora: Email sent. :)
Feb 24 21:43:21 <Adora> you know, just 'cause
Feb 24 21:43:23 <ajay_> SineOt: if you can email Adora too (for the "WEBOS REVOLUTION") that'd be great
Feb 24 21:43:31 <halfhalo> Adora: come to scale!
Feb 24 21:43:33 * Adora wobbles rwhitby 
Feb 24 21:43:52 * dkirker waits for rwhitby to fall over >:-P
Feb 24 21:43:59 * rwhitby wobbles without knowing why
Feb 24 21:44:32 <rwhitby> Adora: you going to make a special appearance at scale?
Feb 24 21:45:08 <Adora> rwhitby:  maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe
Feb 24 21:45:18 <halfhalo> Adora: you better
Feb 24 21:45:43 * rwhitby bbl - time to earn the dollars
Feb 24 21:45:49 <ajay_> Adora: And I told Chuq we could organize a small/informal Palm/webOS meetup until ya'll are ready to jump in righteously, and he was down with that.
Feb 24 21:45:54 <ajay_> so yes, step 1 is Crucial
Feb 24 21:45:54 <Adora> DOLLA DOLLA BILL, Y'ALL
Feb 24 21:45:55 <SineOt> Adora: you totally should, I want me a Palm shirt if I'm going to be manning the booth :p
Feb 24 21:46:16 <ajay_> or, if everyone here can email meetup.com about this situation, that should autocorrect the behavior
Feb 24 21:46:31 <Adora> SineOt:  I'll see what else I can do, but this is all very last minute on our side
Feb 24 21:46:41 <Adora> be happy that you at least get devices  =]
Feb 24 21:46:44 <rwhitby> ajay_: call it "The Real Non-corporate-schill webOS Meetup" :)
Feb 24 21:46:46 <SineOt> heh, yeah :3
Feb 24 21:46:52 <SineOt> it should be fun to run the booth either way
Feb 24 21:46:59 <halfhalo> yup
Feb 24 21:47:23 * halfhalo has firedoomsafe of doom for said booth
Feb 24 21:47:37 <SineOt> you manning the booth, halfhalo?
Feb 24 21:47:40 * ajay_ contacted meetup through this link: meetup.com/help/What-should-I-do-if-my-Organizer-is-inactive/
Feb 24 21:47:51 * SineOt is lined up for saturday midday...
Feb 24 21:48:57 <dkirker> I registered #webos-meetup so that we can use this as a place to discuss creating/taking over the meetups, if y'all are interested.
Feb 24 21:49:09 <Adora> dkirker:  hold off on that, actually
Feb 24 21:49:20 <Adora> I have bigger plans to discuss very soon....
Feb 24 21:49:29 * Adora grins to herself
Feb 24 21:49:34 <SineOt> Adora: I emailed you too, since ajay_ said to XD
Feb 24 21:49:45 <dkirker> Adora: Ah, ok. Well, the channel is registered, but... I will give up control when asked.
Feb 24 21:50:04 <Draecos> Adora, I was talking to chuq about UK meetups earlier. Should I be talking to you too?
Feb 24 21:50:54 <Adora> Draecos:  there are multiple paths we could take here
Feb 24 21:50:57 <ajay_> SineOt: you said to sign you up, so that's how we do it.. :) please contact meetup too!
Feb 24 21:51:04 <Adora> just stay flexible
Feb 24 21:51:19 * dkirker wobbles a little
Feb 24 21:51:27 <dkirker> Adora: flexible enough? :P
Feb 24 21:51:27 <Draecos> it was reference a post on the dev forums
Feb 24 21:51:30 <SineOt> ajay_: yeah, I'm writing that email too, hehe
Feb 24 21:51:49 <sugardave> the last shuttle is about to launch
Feb 24 21:51:51 <Draecos> seemed like the community would be willing to organise something
Feb 24 21:51:52 <dkirker> SineOt ajay_ Adora: How should we go about writing these emails to meetup?
Feb 24 21:52:05 <Draecos> with maybe some input from Palm
Feb 24 21:52:05 <haeffb_pre> last?
Feb 24 21:52:08 <sugardave> yep
Feb 24 21:52:11 <haeffb_pre> ever?
Feb 24 21:52:13 <Draecos> balls
Feb 24 21:52:15 <sugardave> I think so
Feb 24 21:52:15 <SineOt> Adora: when I hear multiple paths, all I can think of is that there's a big book at Palm that has each page that says "if you choose this, turn to page 458..."
Feb 24 21:52:19 <sugardave> last one for Discovery
Feb 24 21:52:24 <Draecos> lol SineOt
Feb 24 21:52:36 <Draecos> remember those books from school ;)
Feb 24 21:52:45 <Adora> dkirker SineOt ajay_ :  I gotta head to a meeting, let's pause this and resume in a bit
Feb 24 21:52:53 <dkirker> ok
Feb 24 21:52:59 <haeffb_pre> do they all say 458?
Feb 24 21:52:59 <Draecos> adora can I mail you about this?
Feb 24 21:53:17 <SineOt> dkirker: I'm just going to write that the guy is basically a corporate shill pushing his own agenda, is inactive, and somehow is managing 4 groups on both sides of the country and there's no way he could realistically be expected to do even attend his own events
Feb 24 21:53:17 <ajay_> dkirker: did you already email adora?
Feb 24 21:53:21 <Adora> Draecos:  anyone interested in taking over the sv meetup group please email me and I'll loop you all together
Feb 24 21:53:23 <ajay_> Adora: ok!
Feb 24 21:53:27 <haeffb_pre> cuz that's really all the same path...
Feb 24 21:53:32 <Adora> for other meetup groups...that's a different conversation
Feb 24 21:53:36 <SineOt> haeffb_pre: page 458 says "This Page Intentionally Left Blank"
Feb 24 21:53:37 <dkirker> ajay_: Yes.
Feb 24 21:53:41 <Adora> that's the stay tuned conversation
Feb 24 21:53:46 <Draecos> Adora, no its regarding getting a UK dev meet going
Feb 24 21:53:52 <ajay_> Adora +1
Feb 24 21:54:06 <ajay_> dkirker: msg me your email and i'll cc you on my email to her, so that you have it
Feb 24 21:54:06 <SineOt> Adora: Hah, well I emailed you about taking over the LA meetup group. OOPS
Feb 24 21:54:14 <Adora> Draecos:  cc me if you want, but if you're already talking to chuq then you're good
Feb 24 21:54:17 <Draecos> ah ok. can I have that convo over emai? :)
Feb 24 21:54:24 <ajay_> SineOt: wait the same dude took over the LA meetup??
Feb 24 21:54:28 <SineOt> ajay_: yes
Feb 24 21:54:29 <Draecos> hmmm, not sure chuq was that interested tbh
Feb 24 21:54:32 <Adora> sineot:  ok, taking over a group owned by semantic seed
Feb 24 21:54:33 <ajay_> DUDE!
Feb 24 21:54:35 <dkirker> lift off for Discovery!!!!!
Feb 24 21:54:38 <Draecos> no disrespect to him
Feb 24 21:54:39 <Adora> sv, la, and miami
Feb 24 21:55:09 <ajay_> If adora doesn't mind, it seems like anyone who's interested in taking over a Palm/webOS meetup hijacked by semantic seed/Toby Morning should email her?
Feb 24 21:55:11 <Adora> Draecos:  ok, cc me...we're just bandwidth limited
Feb 24 21:55:19 <Adora> ajay_:  correct
Feb 24 21:55:26 <Adora> OK YOU GUYS SERIOUSLY I HAVE TO GO TO A MEETING
Feb 24 21:55:31 <halfhalo> GOGOGO
Feb 24 21:55:34 <Draecos> lol its only a mail, speak later :)
Feb 24 21:55:34 <Adora> <3 you all
Feb 24 21:55:37 <Adora> afk
Feb 24 21:55:48 <dkirker> Adora: haha!! :D
Feb 24 21:55:54 * ajay_ "the people, united, shall never be defeated!"
Feb 24 21:56:17 <Draecos> jees, why is it they seem to be a bit 'hmm' about anything outside of the USA?
Feb 24 21:56:32 <Draecos> even stuff other people are willing to organise
Feb 24 21:56:36 <Draecos> craz
Feb 24 21:56:40 <Draecos> +y
Feb 24 21:56:57 * Draecos bangs head on wall
Feb 24 21:57:03 <ajay_> Adora: ttfn! THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Feb 24 21:57:15 <dkirker> I would imagine because it is hard to do...
Feb 24 21:57:28 <ajay_> Draecos: stop taking away from our moment!! :)
Feb 24 21:57:42 <Draecos> what? get a group of people together? not always
Feb 24 21:57:46 <Draecos> lol ajay_
Feb 24 21:57:46 <ajay_> seriously though, Palm _really_ needs to step up their game internationally. Agreed
Feb 24 21:58:04 <Draecos> no thunder stealing intended, it stems from a dev forum post
Feb 24 21:58:08 <ajay_> Draecos: did you say anything in the dev.palm.com thread about it?
Feb 24 21:58:10 <SineOt> ajay_: man, it's weird, I have no idea how this guy got to take over the LA group too
Feb 24 21:58:13 <Draecos> keep your thunder :)
Feb 24 21:58:17 <ajay_> oh, heh..
Feb 24 21:58:42 <dkirker> ajay_: Where is post on dev.palm.com?
Feb 24 21:58:50 <SineOt> ajay_: and on top of that it looks like he even put in some of his own folks on the leader board for the LA one :/
Feb 24 21:58:54 <ajay_> on the dev forum chuq sounded like he agreed they needed to step up int'lally
Feb 24 21:59:04 <ajay_> SineOt: wow!  Surprised he didn't do that up here.
Feb 24 21:59:11 <dkirker> Draecos: But yeah... I would imagine with HP now in control, International reach will probably improve.
Feb 24 21:59:14 <Draecos> yer he did totally ajay_
Feb 24 21:59:33 <SineOt> yeah I'm checking out the other in charge folks for the LA group and like, it's a bit telling when their personal sites have big banners for those Start Up Camps
Feb 24 21:59:36 <ajay_> dkirker: as for an email to meetup, i'd take some points you'd learned from this disc, and email them about the 3 groups
Feb 24 21:59:46 <Draecos> just thought they'd be appreciate of others taking on the work :)
Feb 24 21:59:48 <ajay_> SineOt: is there only 1 LA Palm/webOS meetup.com group?
Feb 24 22:00:00 <SineOt> I think there's a few
Feb 24 22:00:01 <Draecos> especially when its likely to remain mostly USA for now
Feb 24 22:00:13 <Draecos> never mind, on wards and upwards
Feb 24 22:00:13 <SineOt> http://www.meetup.com/lawebos/
Feb 24 22:00:27 <SineOt> he's leader on it under a different profile, which is like, double sneaky :p
Feb 24 22:00:45 <ajay_> SineOt: I noticed that too..
Feb 24 22:01:03 <ajay_> funny, I was thinking of visiting him in person to discuss this, but now I have no clue where he is ! :)
Feb 24 22:01:16 <dkirker> ajay_: It seems to me that it should be the *other* way around. I get spam about those stupid Startup camps and them wanting my money. Their startup camps should be putting into the group. You know, putting up money to get guest speakers, etc.
Feb 24 22:01:33 <ajay_> SineOt: wait, you said webOS revolution, but revolutions have to happen on facebook/twitter (as I've learned)
Feb 24 22:01:46 <leiru> hi
Feb 24 22:01:48 <leiru> *g*
Feb 24 22:02:12 <ajay_> dkirker: good point! adora said something about it being spammy, and funny, until you guys said that i didn't think about it..! you're both totally on point!
Feb 24 22:02:20 <SineOt> man reading some of these personal sites is waaaaaaay dumb and makes my head hurt
Feb 24 22:02:28 <ajay_> haha
Feb 24 22:02:32 <SineOt> how can you claim to be a user experience guru when your personal site looks like this http://taigreene.com/
Feb 24 22:02:51 * SineOt puts white text on a very light background... USER EXPERIENCE
Feb 24 22:03:07 <ajay_> So do we make this revolution real, bring it to social media? what do you think for a twitter hash tag? #webosrevolution? ;^)
Feb 24 22:03:09 <sugardave> that was cool, I haven't watched a shuttle launch in a long time
Feb 24 22:03:11 <ajay_> #webos-meetup?
Feb 24 22:03:19 <ajay_> oh wait, was that a channel name or a hash tag?
Feb 24 22:03:23 <dkirker> SineOt: But... but... that is the MOST BEAUTIFUL WEBSITE THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!
Feb 24 22:03:26 * dkirker rolls eyes
Feb 24 22:03:38 <dkirker> ajay_: channel name.
Feb 24 22:03:51 <dkirker> could be hash tag
Feb 24 22:03:53 <SineOt> yeah looking at it I'm pretty sure all the people in charge of the LA group were put in by SemanticSeed
Feb 24 22:04:05 <torchie> portfolio below
Feb 24 22:04:10 <torchie> whoa this guy is RESULTS ORIENTED
Feb 24 22:04:13 <ajay_> SineOt: ok, focus, we need to take over social media first!
Feb 24 22:04:14 <SineOt> because inevitably they all end up at the same place!
Feb 24 22:04:16 <ajay_> haha :)
Feb 24 22:05:06 <dkirker> ajay_: We should probably wait to hear back from Adora, but I agree. A nice Facebook/twitter presence is likely needed. :)
Feb 24 22:05:17 * ajay_ notes that twitter.com/tobymorning doesn't exist
Feb 24 22:05:26 <dkirker> lol
Feb 24 22:06:04 <SineOt> ajay_: yeah, a lot of their LinkedIn profiles don't exist either
Feb 24 22:06:38 <ajay_> SineOt: muahaha
Feb 24 22:07:13 <ajay_> SineOt: you want some twitter/linkedin action with me? msg me your email
Feb 24 22:07:19 <ajay_> dkirker: you too?
Feb 24 22:07:32 <SineOt> I'm going to vote for the #webOSRevolution hash tag, and of course, be sure to mention @SemanticSeed
Feb 24 22:07:33 <dkirker> ajay_: sure
Feb 24 22:07:51 <SineOt> but I'll wait to hear back from Adora first :p
Feb 24 22:08:06 <SineOt> you must have a plan before you fire the first shot! :Q
Feb 24 22:08:13 <dkirker> *bang*
Feb 24 22:08:16 <dkirker> ooops. :(
Feb 24 22:08:33 <ajay_> SineOt: this is not part of the palm-sanctioned plan :)
Feb 24 22:09:01 <SineOt> dkirker there suffers from some premature revolution there :p
Feb 24 22:09:07 <dkirker> haha
Feb 24 22:09:08 <SineOt> contact your doctor about RD today!
Feb 24 22:09:09 <sugardave> whoa, yeah that website sucks
Feb 24 22:09:28 <SineOt> sugardave: yeah, that's why I think it's a joke that they're in charge of the LA webOS group
Feb 24 22:09:36 <sugardave> they are?
Feb 24 22:09:38 <sugardave> that is sad
Feb 24 22:09:41 <SineOt> it's obviously, for lack of a better term, a massive CIRCLE JERK
Feb 24 22:10:22 <dkirker> ahaha
Feb 24 22:10:28 <SineOt> ajay_: https://twitter.com/ruddersquish/status/40896314472398848
Feb 24 22:11:00 <ajay_> SineOt: I meant the other plan.. :)
Feb 24 22:11:07 <SineOt> what other plan ;p
Feb 24 22:11:23 <ajay_> SineOt: linkedin, etc
Feb 24 22:11:45 <SineOt> thbhbthththt
Feb 24 22:11:47 <SineOt> sure
Feb 24 22:13:01 <SineOt> ajay_: when you contacted Meetup about it, what'd you pick for your reason for contact?
Feb 24 22:13:50 <dkirker> ajay_: What city are you in?
Feb 24 22:14:50 <ajay_> sorry got some MAJOR HDD swapping will be a second ..
Feb 24 22:15:02 <ajay_> SineOt: I hit other, but that sounds weak, hopefully you pick a better one
Feb 24 22:15:23 <SineOt> I'm debating picking "Report Member Abuse"
Feb 24 22:20:26 <rsanchez1> hello
Feb 24 22:20:59 <dkirker> rsanchez1: Hi!
Feb 24 22:21:32 <rsanchez1> anyone here know what would cause a Mojo.Depot db to spontaneously delete itself?
Feb 24 22:22:20 <SineOt> rsanchez1: I think that's the question on everyone's mind
Feb 24 22:22:55 <oilsworkn> welcome back oil_
Feb 24 22:22:56 <oilsworkn> oh
Feb 24 22:23:41 <rsanchez1> I was testing my app, then it caused a reset and when the phone turned back on and I launched the app again, all the data in the db was gone
Feb 24 22:23:52 <rsanchez1> came completely out of left field
Feb 24 22:24:00 <oilsworkn> probably due to the reset
Feb 24 22:24:19 <SineOt> ugh, I thought it was weird earlier when my Pixi was roaming on Verizon and was pulling down 3G... and now it can't get a Sprint data fix and refuses to send texts. Ffff. :B
Feb 24 22:25:40 <SineOt> I think my phone just went through carrier reassignment without telling me :c
Feb 24 22:25:50 <oilsworkn> you were sold to vzw
Feb 24 22:26:32 <SineOt> two reboots later and it's showing 1x! let's see if I can send texts :B
Feb 24 22:27:24 <oilsworkn> two?
Feb 24 22:27:42 <ajay_> dkirker: Milpitas, outside of SJ
Feb 24 22:27:45 <SineOt> yes
Feb 24 22:27:57 <SineOt> rebooted it once, let it sit, no go... so rebooted again
Feb 24 22:27:57 <ajay_> man, it IS flash's fault that FireFox kills my cpu! huh
Feb 24 22:27:59 <dkirker> ajay_: ah, ok, you aren't too far from me, then
Feb 24 22:28:14 <ajay_> SineOt: member abuse sounds like a perfect reason with all that's come to light!
Feb 24 22:30:59 <SineOt> ajay_: considering that it took about 8 minutes to get a reply, yes :]
Feb 24 22:32:08 <ajay_> dkirker: where will you be?
Feb 24 22:32:17 <dkirker> ajay_: Campbell
Feb 24 22:32:25 <ajay_> SineOt: i made sure to get a msg in that said i was swapping to death!! :)
Feb 24 22:32:54 <SineOt> ajay_: no no, I mean from Meetup! They contacted me back asking for links to the other meetup groups he's running
Feb 24 22:33:24 <ajay_> SineOt: oh!  WHAT!! That's a WAY better response than I got! haha.. hope dkirker's email was better than mine then :)
Feb 24 22:33:33 <ajay_> SineOt: good job!
Feb 24 22:34:02 <dkirker> ajay_: I haven't sent an email yet. Still deciding what to write, plus busy with moving, work and getting Flash on my Pre. :P
Feb 24 22:34:11 * oilsworkn wants to go to a webos dev meetup, doesn't want to organize one
Feb 24 22:34:41 <ajay_> dkirker: did you hear me say that Flash made my WHOLE computer unresponsive?  don't do it!! :)
Feb 24 22:34:53 <SineOt> I basically wrote that he's put in his own guys, is shilling for his company, and not doing anything with the organizer roles + refuses to step down and removed ajay_ from the group for asking about taking over :p
Feb 24 22:35:17 <dkirker> ajay_: I am going to create another account for the webOS Meetup group as my revolution account. I want to keep my July 20, 2009 membership date :P
Feb 24 22:35:20 <SineOt> but then again I've been told I write very well in the past..!
Feb 24 22:35:41 <SineOt> dawm_: did you ever hear back from the guy at Wired about that webOS article?
Feb 24 22:35:45 <ajay_> SineOt: yeah I've been afraid to retweet you incase he removes me from the other group, after seeing meetup.com will remove you after 3 removes, but then again, I realized that i should just email meetup about it
Feb 24 22:35:57 <ajay_> dkirker: heh, for sure!
Feb 24 22:36:00 <dawm_> no i havent heard back other than the follow up email just before Feb 9th
Feb 24 22:36:18 <ajay_> dkirker: that'll give you more leverage if he removes you anyways
Feb 24 22:37:04 <ajay_> SineOt: do they have any hash tags?
Feb 24 22:37:35 <SineOt> does who have hashtags
Feb 24 22:37:41 <ajay_> #palm
Feb 24 22:38:14 <SineOt> I don't even know what you're asking XD Does Palm have twitter hash tags? Because yeah, they're #Palm and #webOS :p
Feb 24 22:38:39 <ajay_> SineOt: oops, i misread you.. :) does Semantic Seed/toby/StartupCamp have hash tags :)
Feb 24 22:38:51 <SineOt> probably
Feb 24 22:38:52 <ajay_> and should we include #webOS and #palm in tweets.. maybe "not yet"
Feb 24 22:39:06 <SineOt> right now I'm just doing #webosRevolution since it's basically harmless :p
Feb 24 22:39:45 <SineOt> anyone have an idea on what would cause text message send failures with code: 7? totally helpful error...
Feb 24 22:40:27 <Tibfib> Adora: any updates on my update rejection?
Feb 24 22:40:52 <ajay_> SineOt: true
Feb 24 22:40:56 <ajay_> Tibfib: I think she's in a mtg
Feb 24 22:41:01 <SineOt> yeah, she's in a meeting
Feb 24 22:41:03 <Tibfib> ajay_: ah, thanks!
Feb 24 22:41:13 <Tibfib> hopefully a meeting about fixing my issue >.<
Feb 24 22:41:16 <ajay_> heh
Feb 24 22:41:18 <Tibfib> ;)
Feb 24 22:41:32 <ajay_> Tibfib: are you joining us for the #webOSrevolution?
Feb 24 22:41:40 <Tibfib> ajay_: what now?
Feb 24 22:42:19 <ajay_> Tibfib: where are you based?
Feb 24 22:42:26 <Tibfib> kansas
Feb 24 22:42:56 * Tibfib hasn't been paying attention to chat
Feb 24 22:43:07 <ajay_> Tibfib: oh my! heh.. we're emailling meetup.com about this dude that's hijacked the 2 Silicon Valley Palm/webOS meetup groups, an LA one (and Miami? maybe more?)
Feb 24 22:43:36 <Tibfib> oh?
Feb 24 22:44:11 <SineOt> okay... heading home
Feb 24 22:46:24 <ajay_> Tibfib: yup!
Feb 24 22:46:29 <ajay_> Tibfib: you weren't at feb9 were you?
Feb 24 22:46:32 <Tibfib> nope
Feb 24 22:46:59 <ajay_> I think I met a webOS fellow or few..from kansas? kentucky? i forget..
Feb 24 22:49:14 <Tibfib> rick-away is from kansas
Feb 24 22:50:12 <Tibfib> about an hour away from me
Feb 24 22:58:52 <KGF2009> Morning, everyone.
Feb 24 22:59:08 <rsanchez1> morning
Feb 24 23:01:20 <ajay_> Tibfib: sounds familiar.. i think he might be the one that organized the cool WOR gatherup
Feb 24 23:01:37 <Tibfib> I think that was roy
Feb 24 23:01:41 <ajay_> oh was that pastor?
Feb 24 23:02:45 <Tibfib> no clue..
Feb 24 23:06:05 <ajay_> oh no pastorrich1 is from OK, my bad
Feb 24 23:06:51 <ajay_> hm, i think i just received an int'l text on my gVoice, i didn't know is supported that (for free)
Feb 24 23:19:09 <ajay_> am i still here?
Feb 24 23:22:29 <dawm_> dealers really dont pay attention to the emails they get from their forms do they.. i specified the year and model im looking for and i get a call from that same dealer for the wrong year and wrong model.. wtf
Feb 24 23:23:36 <dawm_> told them no wagons.. they tell me about a wagon
Feb 24 23:23:47 <dawm_> i said 04 or newer, they tell me about a 03
Feb 24 23:25:57 <ajay_> ok think about ready for lunch.. ;^)
Feb 24 23:41:37 <SineOt> ajay_: seems that Meetup won't do anything
Feb 24 23:42:52 <SineOt> ajay_: man that's BS :/
Feb 24 23:42:56 <rwhitby> Use a competing meeting arrangement service, and just out-publicise them.
Feb 24 23:43:24 <SineOt> the rep is basically saying that organizers are the only people responsible for the groups, Meetup will do nothing unless there's a blatant ToS violation
Feb 24 23:43:39 <SineOt> so accordingly, taking over a group and kicking users for asking you to do something with it is a-okay
Feb 24 23:44:15 <rwhitby> how did the dude get to take over the group in the first place? did someone give him the organiser account password or something?
Feb 24 23:45:00 <Doc_Lee> Just caught the Discovery launch from the beach.
Feb 24 23:45:35 <SineOt> looking at it, rwhitby, you have to pay fees to run a group (BS!) and if you let your payments lapse they remove you from being an organizer
Feb 24 23:45:41 <SineOt> so I'm guessing someone didn't pay the fees?
Feb 24 23:46:24 <SineOt> although, this might be a good route to play through
Feb 24 23:46:52 <SineOt> the ToS section 5.3 subsection a part v, "advertise merchandise, auctions, services or commercial websites, including offers to trade or charitable solicitations unrelated to the topic or spirit of the Meetup Group or Meetup Everywhere;"
Feb 24 23:47:16 <SineOt> section 5.3 subsection a part ii: "impersonate any person or entity (including Meetup, Meetup staff and other members), or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with any person, through the use of similar email addresses, nicknames, or creation of false account(s) or any other method or device;"
Feb 24 23:48:35 <ajay_> rwhitby: good luck with creating an alternative to meetup, and drawing everyone out of those groups to it! :)
Feb 24 23:48:39 <ajay_> SineOt: wow BS for sure!
Feb 24 23:48:42 <SineOt> but I think I'd have to talk to Adora about pressing 5.3.a.ii any further, but since he basically shills for his Startup camps, there MAY be grounds for 5.3.a.v to be allowed too
Feb 24 23:48:52 <rwhitby> SineOt: so if the group didn't pay the fees, and someone came in and paid the fees, then they're the legal owner, right?
Feb 24 23:48:57 <SineOt> ajay_: dig up posts where he shills for his company
Feb 24 23:49:01 <ajay_> ToS definitely sounds like a good path
Feb 24 23:49:11 <ajay_> SineOt: dig up? they're all the posts on the site! :)
Feb 24 23:49:16 <rwhitby> sounds like the group dropped the ball on that one.
Feb 24 23:49:18 <SineOt> rwhitby: the wording is incredibly vague, from my understanding you can automatically get removed for nonpayment
Feb 24 23:49:24 <SineOt> but I'm not sure if that's what actually happened or not
Feb 24 23:50:01 <ajay_> SineOt: that's likely what happened..
Feb 24 23:50:06 <ajay_> or something around there..
Feb 24 23:50:18 <dawm_> i also like how i clearly specified 'email contact only' and they call me..
Feb 24 23:50:21 <ajay_> i see he's joined a BUNCH of other groups, looks like he's trying to take over more groups
Feb 24 23:50:34 <dawm_> why bother to create a form if you arent gonna look at all the options filled out when submitted
Feb 24 23:50:58 <Doc_Lee> What are you folks talking about?
Feb 24 23:51:18 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: all the bay area Palm/webOS meetup groups have been taken over by this corporate shill
Feb 24 23:52:22 <ajay_> result? we haven't had more than 1 meetup (i'm not talking about paid events) in almost 2 years!
Feb 24 23:52:36 <ajay_> This is the area where Palm HQ is located, of course
Feb 24 23:53:08 <Doc_Lee> What corporate shill?
Feb 24 23:53:27 <ajay_> (and also where HP's WW HQ is, to boot)
Feb 24 23:53:42 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: StartupCamp/Semantic Seed, go to meetup.com/svpalmpre to see
Feb 24 23:54:18 <ajay_> we're asking everyone to join (possibly with disposable meetup accounts) to make some noise on the meetup pages, and also to contact meetup.com about this issue
Feb 24 23:54:40 <Doc_Lee> Meh.  I've never been to a single meetup
Feb 24 23:54:48 <ajay_> anyone that is in an area where their meetup has been taken over (SF Bay area, LA area, others?) are coordinating with Adora
Feb 24 23:54:59 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: me neither.  Doesn't mean they shouldn't happen
Feb 24 23:55:01 <Doc_Lee> Nor am I really involved in the community outside of just developing the app.
Feb 24 23:55:36 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: you never wish you had other devs (or users) to collaborate with?
Feb 24 23:55:46 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: I think you are involved in the cmty. you're here, right?
Feb 24 23:57:03 <haeffb__> rarely
Feb 24 23:57:06 <haeffb__> anymore
Feb 24 23:57:17 <fudge> :3
Feb 24 23:57:25 <fudge> oh s***
Feb 24 23:57:29 <fudge> i got my nick back :D
Feb 24 23:57:33 <haeffb> oh fudge!
Feb 24 23:57:36 <ajay_> hah
Feb 24 23:57:38 <dawm_> yah
Feb 24 23:57:44 <dawm_> oh fudge would have been better to say
Feb 24 23:57:48 <fudge> lol
Feb 24 23:58:08 <dawm_> make sure you use it next time you lose your nick
Feb 24 23:58:14 <SineOt> ajay_: writing a big response lol
Feb 24 23:58:20 <SineOt> walking through all the TOS infractions
Feb 24 23:58:37 <Doc_Lee> ajay_, There's not much to collaborate on to tell you the truth
Feb 24 23:58:58 <Doc_Lee> And haeffb, I've been so busy, it's been ridiculous.
Feb 24 23:59:43 <dohtem> anyone get a response back regarding the Pre 2 dev device?
Feb 25 00:00:02 <Doc_Lee> I still don't have my Pre 1 development device.
Feb 25 00:00:12 <haeffb> dohtem: not yet
Feb 25 00:00:24 <haeffb> Doc_Lee: went to PanamaCityBeach couple of weeks ago
Feb 25 00:00:25 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: then why are you here? :)
Feb 25 00:00:33 <dohtem>  ah, ok.  I thought it was just me.
Feb 25 00:00:36 <ajay_> SineOt: nice :)
Feb 25 00:00:45 <haeffb> I can't remember where you said to go, but thought it was near there somewhere...
Feb 25 00:00:51 <Doc_Lee> ajay_, Am I not allowed?
Feb 25 00:01:04 <Doc_Lee> haeffb, To Navarre
Feb 25 00:01:09 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: Nonono, I just meant, you didn't want cmty or collaboration, but you're in this channel? i'm confused
Feb 25 00:01:21 <ajay_> that's exactly what this space is to me
Feb 25 00:01:28 <Doc_Lee> ajay_, I just said there isn't much to collaborate on.
Feb 25 00:01:31 <SineOt> okay, sent... Now to see if there's a response
Feb 25 00:01:35 <Doc_Lee> ajay_, I develop one app and that's it.
Feb 25 00:02:04 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: well, for whatever you get out of being in this irc channel, is exactly what others get from going to meetups, that's all my point is :)
Feb 25 00:02:07 <SineOt> One app is the gateway to a ton of apps
Feb 25 00:02:10 <haeffb> PCB was because a friend's timeshare there was going to waste. The beaches and Gulf were nice. The city a *bit* touristy. And average age in Feb about 67.
Feb 25 00:02:38 <Doc_Lee> haeffb, Be glad you went before Spring Break
Feb 25 00:02:38 <dawm_> ugh.. i really wish females werent so damn touchy..
Feb 25 00:02:53 <SineOt> ajay_: I'll let you know what she says, I pointed out the ToS violations I felt were applicable with his ownership of the groups
Feb 25 00:02:57 <haeffb> then avg age drops to 17... :)
Feb 25 00:03:08 <Doc_Lee> ajay_, I just mainly come here because it's on my list of channels.
Feb 25 00:03:09 <ajay_> I often note that people poo-poo things they don't understand
Feb 25 00:03:32 <SineOt> I think the fact that his event outlines 1) never mention webOS and 2) get organized for LA and then happen in the Bay Area should at least pull some weight
Feb 25 00:03:35 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: I don't know what that means
Feb 25 00:03:44 <Doc_Lee> ajay_, Auto join channels in Xchat
Feb 25 00:03:49 <SineOt> ajay_: he comes here because he came here once and never left basically :p
Feb 25 00:03:55 <ajay_> haha
Feb 25 00:03:59 <SineOt> of course you're also talking, Doc_Lee, so that one doesn't fly!
Feb 25 00:03:59 <Doc_Lee> Pretty much
Feb 25 00:04:03 <ajay_> SineOt: but he participates
Feb 25 00:04:17 <Doc_Lee> I was here pretty much at the beginning
Feb 25 00:04:23 * ajay_ gets beat to the punch by SineOt, again! gah :)
Feb 25 00:04:26 <Doc_Lee> And then...I went away.
Feb 25 00:04:47 <SineOt> ... And now you're back!
Feb 25 00:04:51 <Doc_Lee> Now, I just drop in every now and then to complain to the Palm guys
Feb 25 00:04:54 <Doc_Lee> :-)
Feb 25 00:04:59 <ajay_> SineOt: re ToS -- cool!
Feb 25 00:05:06 <ajay_> wow, imagine if you could complain to a palm guy in person!
Feb 25 00:05:17 <Doc_Lee> I can.
Feb 25 00:05:41 * ajay_ finally got a followup to his email to Ben Combee -- by going to the feb9th event!
Feb 25 00:06:09 <ajay_> good, so we're all agreed that meetups are great then :)
Feb 25 00:06:18 <Doc_Lee> I just pick up the phone.
Feb 25 00:06:21 <SineOt> hehe
Feb 25 00:06:49 <ajay_> SineOt: I think meetup is being pretty rude.. he's making them some decent/good money, so it's not in their interest to rock the boat.
Feb 25 00:07:15 <SineOt> if she shoots down these cited ToS violations and still refuses to do anything, then yeah, boo on them
Feb 25 00:07:16 <haeffb> if ("on phone" !== "in person") Mojo.Log.info("That ain't right");
Feb 25 00:07:17 <ajay_> plus their (and his) suggestion of starting a 3rd group.. i think he's dealt with our kind before, and he knows he can get away with it.. (my theory)
Feb 25 00:07:19 <SineOt> but until then, who knows
Feb 25 00:07:41 <Doc_Lee> haeffb, I do enough traveling as it is.
Feb 25 00:07:47 <haeffb> :)
Feb 25 00:07:51 <ajay_> the more groups, the more they make
Feb 25 00:08:06 <ajay_> SineOt: it's weird that they replied to you so quick, but then shot you down
Feb 25 00:08:12 <SineOt> right now I'm giving poor uh... Jennifer Wong the benefit of the doubt that she doesn't want to do all the research herself and is instead waiting for me to do the work for them
Feb 25 00:08:12 <ajay_> def boo on them
Feb 25 00:08:27 <SineOt> and by point out the exact bits of the ToS that got violated, I HAVE done all the work for them :P
Feb 25 00:08:32 <ajay_> SineOt: i wonder if they need the corporate force of HPalm upon them
Feb 25 00:08:38 <ajay_> SineOt: nice!
Feb 25 00:09:04 <ajay_> I bet we could get palm to (officially) sponsor all these groups as well, which would help convince meetup
Feb 25 00:09:05 <Doc_Lee> Why not just start your own meetups?
Feb 25 00:09:09 <SineOt> "After reviewing the ToS, there are a few points that I believe are applicable here... Section 5.3, subsection a, part ii: blah blah blah blah"
Feb 25 00:09:34 <SineOt> Doc_Lee: as I mentioned in my early emails, with such small groups fragmentation and splintering by just creating new groups is really not an ideal solution
Feb 25 00:09:37 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: why have people split between 3-4 different meetups? and why let corruption stand?
Feb 25 00:09:57 <SineOt> it's like, final resort status and not first response
Feb 25 00:10:07 <Doc_Lee> SineOt, Yet, it's been done for years.  For instance, LUGS
Feb 25 00:10:23 <SineOt> Doc_Lee: and you know how popular those are! :U
Feb 25 00:10:35 <Doc_Lee> It gets the job done
Feb 25 00:10:38 <SineOt> (this guy runs the LUG for LA too from what I can tell)
Feb 25 00:10:47 <ajay_> Doc_Lee: i don't see too many LUG splits myself.. i usually see LUG joins
Feb 25 00:11:32 <ajay_> There's been a Sacramento LUG for years, a newly-formed BSD/Linux UG for server-oriented people is starting up, and now the former group wants to join up with them.
Feb 25 00:11:45 <ajay_> I've seen it happen multiple times.  But there is _no_ facility to merge in meetup
Feb 25 00:12:17 <ajay_> and to get users attention.. also difficult. usually all these LUGs are open to their users knowing about other LUGs.
Feb 25 00:12:44 <ajay_> also
Feb 25 00:16:17 <SineOt> ajay_: haha, holy shit I didn't realize this but reading the pricing terms
Feb 25 00:16:24 <SineOt> your rates go up if you run more than 3 groups
Feb 25 00:16:25 <dohtem> http://pdnblog.palm.com/2011/02/playing-with-prototype-extensions/ - nice!
Feb 25 00:16:35 <SineOt> THAT'S why he registered and runs with more than one account
Feb 25 00:17:05 <ajay_> SineOt: ooo.. nice! They'll DEFINITELY appreciate knowing that! :)
Feb 25 00:18:14 <ajay_> SineOt: and yeah, I was wondering why he has so many accounts .. i figured it was for some sort of nefarious end :)
Feb 25 00:18:33 <ajay_> man this guy is clearly making some bank
Feb 25 00:18:40 <ajay_> off the poor Palm/webOS cmty
Feb 25 00:18:49 <ajay_> s/poor//
Feb 25 00:18:50 <torchie> what is going on
Feb 25 00:19:01 <ajay_> we need a bot to explain this :)
Feb 25 00:20:53 <ajay_> torchie: you mean what are we talking about?  We're organizing to stop this guy who has taken over a BUNCH of Palm/webOS meetup.com groups
Feb 25 00:21:05 <torchie> lets beat him up
Feb 25 00:21:41 <ajay_> eg meetup.com/svpalmpre .. this is part of the reason there hasn't been a non-$ palm meetup near palm HQ in year(s)
Feb 25 00:22:34 <ajay_> torchie: tots!  I'm asking everyone to join (w/ a throwaway meetup acct, if you wish) meetup.com/svpalmpre and email meetup.com about your concerns about lack of a meetup for all this time, how he's preventing it.. kicked me out of the group for askin..
Feb 25 00:22:34 <SineOt> ajay_: send that too!
Feb 25 00:22:37 <SineOt> we'll see how it goes
Feb 25 00:22:52 <ajay_> SineOt: send what?
Feb 25 00:22:58 <ajay_> about the $?
Feb 25 00:23:01 <SineOt> er, lol
Feb 25 00:23:03 <SineOt> sent rather
Feb 25 00:23:08 <SineOt> brain is roasted right now
Feb 25 00:23:23 <SineOt> I sent an email about him violating 3.3 on the ToS as well
Feb 25 00:23:27 <dohtem> wait, I'm lost here.  Why is this guy doing this?
Feb 25 00:24:10 <SineOt> dohtem: he runs a company that basically charges people for BS advice on how to run a startup
Feb 25 00:24:26 <SineOt> and is using the webOS groups to shill for his own events
Feb 25 00:24:43 <dohtem> duuude! that's shady
Feb 25 00:24:49 <torchie> dayum
Feb 25 00:24:53 <SineOt> without saying that webOS won't be talked about at the events, or that he's the one who's collecting the 40-90$ registration fees
Feb 25 00:25:06 <ajay_> SineOt: nice!
Feb 25 00:25:16 <ajay_> SineOt: you're keeping your emails to them i assume?
Feb 25 00:25:22 <dohtem> can HP/Palm shut him down.  He's using their trademark
Feb 25 00:25:31 <SineOt> yeah I pointed that out as a ToS violation
Feb 25 00:25:44 <ajay_> dohtem: that's one of the things I'm thinking.. Adora said it's proof he's slimy
Feb 25 00:25:48 <ajay_> :)
Feb 25 00:25:58 <SineOt> 5.3.a.ii, don't represent yourself as having sponsorship of an organization when you don't
Feb 25 00:26:04 <ajay_> dohtem: can you make some noise on meetup too??
Feb 25 00:26:16 * dohtem loads .45
Feb 25 00:26:21 * ajay_ dohs!
Feb 25 00:26:39 <ajay_> ok i'm really going to go, was supposed to be ready-to-go RSN
Feb 25 00:26:58 <SineOt> yeah haha, I'm heading out to my mate's for the weekend, need to pack up
Feb 25 00:27:07 <SineOt> I'll keep you posted, ajay_, on what I hear back from Meetup
Feb 25 00:27:21 <SineOt> also you too, Adora
Feb 25 00:28:10 <ajay_> SineOt: if nothing else i'll expect to hear back from you after adora emails us all.. I'm _REAL_ curious to see what her strategy/thoughts are!
Feb 25 00:29:07 * ajay_ hopes to say HP (or HPalm) FTW on this soon! :)
Feb 25 00:29:14 <SineOt> ajay_: armed insurrection, February 24th will go down in history as the day that... uh, webOS doesn't really have a mascot does it
Feb 25 00:29:20 <torchie> nop
Feb 25 00:29:25 <torchie> we need a little green robot
Feb 25 00:29:31 <SineOt> you can't have a crying/cheering mascot if there isn't one
Feb 25 00:29:31 <torchie> i keed.
Feb 25 00:29:32 <ajay_> heh
Feb 25 00:29:38 <torchie> man if webos had a mascot
Feb 25 00:29:44 <torchie> and all the phones had lanyard holes
Feb 25 00:29:46 <ajay_> so THAT's all we're missing!
Feb 25 00:29:47 <torchie> I'd drop my phones a lot less.
Feb 25 00:29:52 <ajay_> this conversation has gotten us so far! :)
Feb 25 00:29:57 <SineOt> the Veer has a lanyard hole!
Feb 25 00:30:01 <torchie> DAMMIT
Feb 25 00:30:01 <SineOt> further proof of Veer supremacy
Feb 25 00:30:06 <torchie> of all the phones to have a lanyard hole
Feb 25 00:30:16 <torchie> it just had to be the amazing, glorious, game-changing Veer
Feb 25 00:30:18 <ajay_> (I speak in fun/tongue-in-cheek, not mean/sarcasm btw!)
Feb 25 00:30:26 <torchie> really though what's the catch with the Veer
Feb 25 00:30:29 <torchie> I mean they can't just
Feb 25 00:30:31 <torchie> make a phone like that
Feb 25 00:30:34 <torchie> without it having some crazy draw
Feb 25 00:30:46 <dohtem> torchie: It's small!
Feb 25 00:30:47 <torchie> like it makes you coffee and takes care of your morning wood
Feb 25 00:30:59 <ajay_> peace!
Feb 25 00:31:00 <dohtem> you can lose it in the couch cushions quicker
Feb 25 00:31:33 <torchie> Veer will be -$500 off contract
Feb 25 00:31:40 <SineOt> the Veer is awesome, haters gonna hate
Feb 25 00:31:43 <torchie> you walk into the 3 million HP store locations and just hold your hands out and it drops into your hands
Feb 25 00:31:47 <torchie> you know what was awesome
Feb 25 00:31:52 <torchie> the pixi was awesome >:(
Feb 25 00:32:01 <SineOt> the Veer is a Pixi with less suck
Feb 25 00:32:06 <torchie> the veer is a pixi with more suck!
Feb 25 00:32:12 <torchie> now it's a slider and now it doesn't have a headphone jack!
Feb 25 00:32:17 <SineOt> pffft!
Feb 25 00:32:20 <torchie> >:O
Feb 25 00:33:27 <SineOt> it's a straight slider! none of this curved BS!
Feb 25 00:33:55 <dohtem> http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/24/dr-dre-video-for-i-need-a-doctor-features-hp-touchpad-pre-3/ - Ha! HP product placement ftw!
Feb 25 00:34:06 <torchie> a straight moving part is still a breaking part!
Feb 25 00:34:51 <torchie> webos 2.1.0 launcher is so hottttt
Feb 25 00:34:54 <torchie> so smoooth
Feb 25 00:42:20 <rwhitby> so unpatchable too
Feb 25 00:45:12 <torchie> but so smooooooooth
Feb 25 00:45:30 <torchie> also touchpad/pre3 product placement in Dr. dre video
Feb 25 00:45:35 <torchie> http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/24/dr-dre-video-for-i-need-a-doctor-features-hp-touchpad-pre-3/
Feb 25 00:49:07 <haeffb> got my ebay Pre-'s today.
Feb 25 00:50:17 <solix> torchie: 'system unavailable' on that link..
Feb 25 00:51:01 <haeffb> one is in near pristine condition, one is very rough.
Feb 25 00:52:39 <rwhitby> solix: I get "we are unable to display this video to your region"
Feb 25 00:52:57 <haeffb> looks like it fell out of a moving vehicle and slid across the pavement
Feb 25 00:53:19 <solix> bad link, missung last to characters... '-3'..
Feb 25 00:53:46 <solix> er last two :)
Feb 25 00:53:49 <haeffb> rwhitby: is the Pre- to Pre2 process ready for prime time?
Feb 25 00:54:42 <rwhitby> if you don't care about carrier apps, and can worst case live with your profile data needing to be reset (but keeping your apps), then yes.
Feb 25 00:54:57 <rwhitby> PRLs and stuff might still be iffy too
Feb 25 00:55:39 <haeffb> I'm going with a secondary device, so can always switch back to my main Pre-
Feb 25 00:55:51 <haeffb> and am OK with using a new profile
Feb 25 00:56:21 <haeffb> and don't need Sprint Nav or AmazonMP3
Feb 25 00:56:27 <rwhitby> should be fine to try out then.
Feb 25 00:56:32 <haeffb> so...I'll give it a shot and see what happens.
Feb 25 00:57:03 <rwhitby> I think any improvements on the current procedure will just be installing some carrier packages later
Feb 25 00:57:36 <rwhitby> haeffb: although, if you wait for the weekend, cryptk is going to automate it.
Feb 25 01:05:20 <haeffb> I am planning on doing it Saturday...hopefully.
Feb 25 01:05:31 <haeffb> figured I'd research a bit between now and then.
Feb 25 01:05:52 <haeffb> what do I need on the software side...on Win7?
Feb 25 01:05:58 <Tibfib> haeffb: 2.1ing your pre-?
Feb 25 01:06:12 <haeffb> Pre 2 ing my Pre -
Feb 25 01:06:16 <Tibfib> ah
Feb 25 01:06:34 <haeffb> got a pair of Pre-'s on ebay this week.
Feb 25 01:06:44 <Tibfib> noice
Feb 25 01:07:07 <haeffb> one is scratched to hell, one is very nice. Nicer than my original... :)
Feb 25 01:07:28 <haeffb> and they went for $7.50 and $8.50 on ebay
Feb 25 01:07:42 <Tibfib> veerrrrrry nice
Feb 25 01:08:31 <Tibfib> bbiab
Feb 25 01:15:53 <solix> nice grab haeffb :)
Feb 25 01:41:28 <joebpre> yo
Feb 25 01:44:08 <rwhitby> haeffb: I'm the wrong person to ask about Win 7. I've never run any Windows version more recent than XPSP3.
Feb 25 02:24:55 <djwhitey> haeffb: i installed from win7 x86... just get the palm SDK
Feb 25 02:25:38 <djwhitey> do you have a linux machine you can use? or cygwin will work i think if you're familiar with it... wiki suggests kubuntu inside virtualbox iirc
Feb 25 02:26:05 <haeffb> have the sdk and virtualbox
Feb 25 02:26:30 <djwhitey> install kubuntu as a vm
Feb 25 02:27:06 <djwhitey> follow steps to get Meta-Doctor working here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor
Feb 25 02:27:27 <djwhitey> then follow steps for actual upgrade here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_2_Upgrade
Feb 25 02:27:36 <djwhitey> the former is the more tricky part, but not too hard
Feb 25 02:27:58 <djwhitey> i'm _almost_ finished w/ a video of me running through it
Feb 25 02:28:59 <djwhitey> someone else posted a 2part series already: www.youtube.com/webosinternals (she was on MacOS)
Feb 25 02:33:10 <haeffb> cool. thanks for the links.
Feb 25 02:40:55 <haeffb> 4 hours to download ubuntu. good thing I'm not in a hurry...
Feb 25 02:49:03 <djwhitey> hehe. this is not a process you want to rush. good learning experience
Feb 25 02:57:01 <Tibfib> boom. koto player has album art change transitions
Feb 25 02:59:04 <destinal> Tibfib: nice
Feb 25 02:59:35 <Tibfib> Thanks! it was easier than I thought it would be.. shoulda had it from day one :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 25 02:59:57 2011