**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 30 02:59:57 2011 Mar 30 03:01:25 destinal, there's a PRI/PRL update both the 1.4.5 sprint doctor and the 2.0.1 VZW doctor that just uses PmModemUpdater Mar 30 03:01:43 and the sprint doctor comes with what I *assume* is a PRL list Mar 30 03:04:23 hmmm, preware forums just went down? Mar 30 03:04:35 RagingMind: I'm not as concerned for the updater as I am the provisioner Mar 30 03:05:07 hmmm... that the phone activation part? Mar 30 03:05:27 RagingMind: yup Mar 30 03:06:54 AH Mar 30 03:07:12 I"m glad on VZW that's it's just a phone call, and then option 1 or 2 :) Mar 30 03:08:35 RagingMind: ah, well vzw, we have working 2.x binaries for anyway Mar 30 03:15:49 tibfib: ping Mar 30 03:25:48 rwhitby/destinal that must have been my problem with making a sprint pre2, never activated the sprint pre i was swapping first Mar 30 03:36:52 morning Mar 30 03:37:17 moin sandrstar Mar 30 03:47:32 oil: that would do it Mar 30 03:47:47 so, I can stream MP3 from amazon cloud drive on Pre2 Mar 30 03:47:50 but not download Mar 30 03:47:53 I can't believe I decided to install webOS 2.1 on my AT&T Pre+ Mar 30 03:47:54 haeffb: but i tried to activate one of them after and still couldn't get 3g Mar 30 03:48:23 activate after the swap? Mar 30 03:48:35 Hello wonderful app developers! :) Mar 30 03:48:49 haeffb: after it didn't work and i swapped it back Mar 30 03:48:56 hello anotherguy Mar 30 03:49:03 hello anotherguy Mar 30 03:49:22 oil: have you tried the new scripted process... ? Mar 30 03:49:24 Spanska: why not? Mar 30 03:49:34 the second time Mar 30 03:49:39 * haeffb is not so wonderful, or I'd say "hello" as well Mar 30 03:49:47 haeffb: how's your sprint frankenpre going? :) Mar 30 03:49:58 worked flawlessly for me, twice. Mar 30 03:50:15 third time, not so much, because I didn't follow the directions. Mar 30 03:50:25 NuttyBunny: Good. Did you get my last email? Mar 30 03:50:29 madnificent: I wasn't sure at first but now that I can choose French as the language and it was so easy to make it work on TELUS' network, I'm glad I did it so far! Mar 30 03:50:39 i.e. I didn't activate on that account first. Mar 30 03:51:20 Spanska: you're in france? (or are you Canadian?) Mar 30 03:51:26 Canadian Mar 30 03:52:00 Spanska: isn't it supposed to be night in Canada right now? Mar 30 03:52:11 haeffb: yep, I got it, I was just wondering if you managed to fix it yet Mar 30 03:53:02 no, haven't had the opportunity. Mar 30 03:53:21 I do have another Pre- that is pretty badly dinged up. But if all you want is the internals... Mar 30 03:53:41 ...I'd be glad to ship that one off Mar 30 03:54:14 Anyone have experience using the Maps Service? I'm trying to open a map to an address. If I disallow access to my location it works great. If I allow access to my location, it show my location, not the intended location. Mar 30 03:55:39 haeffb: does it have oreo? I just need that the cables are in good condition, even if the slider is faulty I may be able to solder the new cables ;) Mar 30 03:56:22 nah, I think I'll just wait, I don't want to rush things :) Mar 30 03:56:53 allrighty, then Mar 30 03:57:15 I haven't forgotten, but life has been pretty hectic lately with some family medical issues. Mar 30 03:57:58 no problem, I get it :) hope things get better soon Mar 30 04:02:46 Are there any HP Synergy Services available yet? Mar 30 04:04:10 * madnificent sees if the maps service was updated in 2.0 Mar 30 04:06:45 I can't even seem to be able to add Facebook as an account. Strange. Mar 30 04:08:05 Spanka: you should, even if you don't have the app Mar 30 04:08:09 bah Mar 30 04:08:17 Spank.. hehehe Mar 30 04:30:45 * DougReeder_ waves hello Mar 30 04:31:24 anotherguy , what do you need help with? Mar 30 04:37:54 can you set the width of a textarea in webos? Mar 30 04:38:37 or is the width always as width as it can be? Mar 30 04:40:17 Wrap it in a div the size you want. Mar 30 04:40:28 can it be a percentage? Mar 30 04:40:32 I believe that's how. If the answer's not here, update it: Mar 30 04:40:35 http://webos101.com/TextField Mar 30 04:50:12 * DougReeder_ waves goodbye Mar 30 04:56:44 roy-pre101 what you said worked, thanks! Mar 30 04:57:06 ANy time Mar 30 05:03:55 roy-pre101: how's your sprint pre2 going? Mar 30 06:16:15 good morning Mar 30 06:18:40 hi hotdp Mar 30 06:31:29 I'm uploading an application to the palm catalog, and I only see webOS 2.0.0 and 2.1.0 in the minimum OS list. I was expecting to see 1.x too. Does this mean I used an incompatible API? Mar 30 06:33:00 donc: that's odd, I could see 1.0.0 yesterday Mar 30 06:34:00 madnificent: I started the app with Ares and I've been developing on a Pre2 so it's possible I included something inadvertantly. Mar 30 06:34:31 I'll try again tomorrow once I get the proper size icons Mar 30 06:37:45 hmmm, you can specify the mojo version, perhaps ares automatically picked the latest one. And perhaps the palm upload utility detects that Mar 30 06:37:59 * madnificent tries to upload an app Mar 30 06:38:03 Seconds from posting our app in the homebrew forums Mar 30 06:38:13 Come to find out they setup the wrong account to the developer account. Mar 30 06:38:14 Gay Mar 30 06:38:21 They setup my old nick Mar 30 06:39:29 yup, I can still select it donc Mar 30 06:41:53 madnificent: is there a file the specifies OS or API level? I see ares_version.json "Mojo": "0.1.0 (311)", "Ares": "1.0.4" Mar 30 06:42:24 or maybe do I need to run palm-package with the 1.x sdk Mar 30 06:45:21 palm-package --use-v1-format . Mar 30 06:46:10 Was the solution, now I see webOS 1.0.0 + Mar 30 06:47:26 yeah using the 2.x SDK to package an app uses a 2.0 method or something to build the ipk Mar 30 06:47:36 it's stupid Mar 30 06:48:28 SineOt: What's a realistic 1.x version to target? Mar 30 06:48:42 1.4.5 Mar 30 06:48:51 donc: 1.4.0 Mar 30 06:49:06 Allows Mexico to purchase and for most countries to view Mar 30 06:49:16 SineOt: thanks Mar 30 06:49:31 was there any large change between 1.4.5 and 1.4.x Mar 30 06:50:30 donc: there sholud be a file somewhere, yes Mar 30 06:50:32 only major thing is the addition of PDK apps Mar 30 06:51:01 This app is just using Mojo so I should be fine Mar 30 06:54:07 yup Mar 30 06:54:56 donc: you could grep for that file, or indeed, perhaps package it by the right version Mar 30 06:54:58 or an older one Mar 30 06:55:35 madnificent: it looks like repackaging with "palm-package --use-v1-format" did the trick Mar 30 06:55:53 I just need to test with older versions of webOS Mar 30 06:56:24 donc: ah, cool :)\ Mar 30 06:56:35 donc: perhaps they changed the package format itself as well Mar 30 06:57:11 Yeah SineOt said they changed something. (I still have a lot to learn about webOS) Mar 30 06:57:27 madnificent: that's it basically Mar 30 06:57:40 it packages it with support for accounts, services, etc Mar 30 06:57:49 even if there aren't any in use Mar 30 06:58:25 SineOt: ah cool Mar 30 06:58:37 not cool, kind of dumb! Mar 30 06:59:55 SineOt: no, it's cool that that's the difference... it's new knowledge for me :) Mar 30 07:16:20 EEEEEEEEEEEEHHH! YEEEEEAH!!! msn-pecan is ONLINE!! :D Mar 30 07:51:33 I wanted to download the SDK for webOS at http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&layout=page&id=1788&Itemid=321# and I only find MacOS, Windows and Ubuntu. I would like to have a .rpm, because I use Fedora. I guess, source-code of the SDK isn't available, and it's not possible to browse through https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/2.1.0.519/. Don't they provide at least a .tar.gz or something? Mar 30 07:53:25 Of course, I could extract the .deb and move the files manually, but this is quite ugly. Mar 30 07:59:04 sash_: yup, extract and do it yourself, that's what the gentoo boys have to do as well Mar 30 07:59:32 sash_: I think palm installs roughly everything in /opt so it's that + some links Mar 30 08:00:32 Yes, I saw it. Only the daemon has to be set up manually, then, i guess. But that's not bad. Mar 30 08:02:08 I will manage that :) Mar 30 08:02:36 sash_: give up i tried on fedora and no go .. its just crazy Mar 30 08:02:52 Hmm? Mar 30 08:02:57 sash_: i tried fedora for like 1 month trying to get webos on it .. its possible but a headache Mar 30 08:03:03 i stuck with ubuntu Mar 30 08:03:25 I started the daemon and then novacom. But of course, it cannot find a connection, cause I don't have the device. Mar 30 08:04:52 What do you mean "Trying to get WebOS on it."? The VM with virtualbox? Mar 30 08:06:19 If I'd had to start an Ubuntu in order to use the SDK, i'd prefer windows O.o Mar 30 08:07:52 that's a harsh claim Mar 30 08:09:37 Well... I have Fedora and I have Windows, cause I need them both. And one of them will be able to let me use the SDK. So, why Ubuntu? :) Mar 30 09:55:22 sash_: cause Palm should only need to support one type of Linux, since the number of Linux webOS developers is less than 5% Mar 30 09:55:33 (yes, they have measured it) Mar 30 10:03:29 has anybody ever tried rendering/initializing a list of widgets before? Mar 30 10:03:45 I want to display my data grouped by day Mar 30 10:03:59 each day has the same model and the same widgets Mar 30 10:04:14 so I thought I'd put the widgets in a list-item-template Mar 30 10:04:18 render that list Mar 30 10:04:25 and initialize the widgets afterwards Mar 30 10:04:50 I've seen other people generate the widget-DOM manually in the assistant Mar 30 10:07:39 but that waters down the advantage that the HTML-templating is giving me in the first place Mar 30 10:13:40 rwhitby: that'd mean that all linux webos devs are in this channel? Mar 30 10:14:14 madnificent: very likely, yes. Mar 30 10:15:25 to my limited experience: programmers which use linux tend to have a better understanding of what exists in their surrounding. With that I mean programming languages/concepts/... Mar 30 10:15:27 the percentage of Linux developers inside Palm apparently outnumbers the number of external Linux developers :) Mar 30 10:16:17 madnificent: that is very true. however, only a small percentage of them create mobile applications for sale, compared to the percentage of those using windows or mac. go figure. Mar 30 10:16:22 rwhitby: could it be that palm has more people internal than the total number of devs for webos? ^_^ Mar 30 10:17:15 rwhitby: I think it could be wise to support those that may build complex applications for you. Mostly because they might create supportive software which make life easier on the windows devs :) Mar 30 10:17:54 madnificent: unfortunately, the figures don't agree with that premise Mar 30 10:17:56 either case, I have a ubuntu box as well, I'm using that. I don't really mind it that much that we only receive .deb files, but it'd be cool if there'd be a .tgz as well Mar 30 10:18:11 rwhitby: the first comment was a joke :) Mar 30 10:18:27 Linux is way too fragmented. Mar 30 10:18:39 it is not, it's called choice Mar 30 10:18:45 windows and mac are way to unified Mar 30 10:18:47 too Mar 30 10:19:06 For example, imagine you had to do OpenGL emulation. There's no single way to do it on Linux, so your support costs increase as a result. Mar 30 10:19:20 you can look at it in two ways... I doubt that the 'one system' way is the right one Mar 30 10:19:38 sure, it's not. but it's the right one if you're the person who has to pay the support costs. Mar 30 10:19:41 there are many ways of doing it actually Mar 30 10:19:52 *exactly* - that's the problem Mar 30 10:20:06 you can hard-link your own opengl libraries, that works. It requires opengl support in the kernel, but well... that's what you want... so... Mar 30 10:20:17 there's no single way that works exactly the same on more than one linux distro Mar 30 10:20:21 besides that you can also require users to have a specific opengl library available Mar 30 10:20:25 If I would spend some time writing a specfile to create an rpm-file for the SDK and build an rpm, do you think, they would use it? Mar 30 10:20:40 madnificent: no you can't - your goal is to reduce support costs, remember? Mar 30 10:20:42 rwhitby: yes, there is :) You can say "You must have this version" and it will work... seriously Mar 30 10:21:01 rwhitby: whether or not it's possible doesn't have anything to do with cost btw Mar 30 10:21:24 sash_: you could try to include it in the distribution itself Mar 30 10:21:32 Don't think so Mar 30 10:21:34 madnificent: supporting two ways of doing something costs more than supporting a single way. Mar 30 10:21:40 It's not open source, is it? Mar 30 10:21:54 it is not Mar 30 10:22:14 rwhitby: you make no sense, sorry. If you want to support linux, then yes, you'll have to do stuff in order to support it. Just the same for windows and for mac btw... Mar 30 10:22:17 So. Cannot be in fedora nor rpmfusion Mar 30 10:22:29 rwhitby: but that doesn't have anything to do with "is it possible" or "is it hard" Mar 30 10:22:30 madnificent: if you want to support two types of linux, it costs more than one type. Mar 30 10:22:40 why two types of linux?! Mar 30 10:22:41 same for windows or mac Mar 30 10:22:51 I said there were two options to support it, not that you had to do both Mar 30 10:22:52 madnificent: ubuntu and fedora for example Mar 30 10:22:59 palm chose ubuntu Mar 30 10:23:01 you were wining about opengl Mar 30 10:23:03 Targz should run everywhere. Mar 30 10:23:09 sash_ is complaining cause they didn't choose fedora Mar 30 10:23:12 sash_++ Mar 30 10:23:15 I'm not Mar 30 10:23:24 no way you can support end-users with a targz Mar 30 10:23:36 Mozilla does that, too Mar 30 10:23:47 and they pay the price Mar 30 10:24:01 I always "install" betas as tgz Mar 30 10:24:06 note that Mozilla has a large Linux userbase. The Palm SDK does not. Mar 30 10:24:12 Sure Mar 30 10:24:23 rwhitby: what's that for a stupid claim?! sorry you're really not making any sense. It's the same as saying: you can't supply windows users with a zip-file with an application in it. Mar 30 10:24:26 clearly you can! Mar 30 10:24:52 madnificent: so the benefits of a package manager mean nothing? Mar 30 10:24:56 Well. When my Pre arrives, I will try the SDK in Fedora. If it works, I will package it and see if it works Mar 30 10:25:04 if that was the case, Ubuntu would be distributed as a set of .tar.gz files Mar 30 10:25:08 you shouldn't throw all your frustrations together in one argument about money and possibly hard to support and fragmentation and a lack of users and whatnot. Mar 30 10:25:13 take one thing at a time Mar 30 10:25:27 rwhitby: Of course they do. But for "special" programs, you dont have to use it imho Mar 30 10:25:32 rwhitby: a .deb isn't that different btw Mar 30 10:25:40 madnificent: I have no frustrations. I'm just telling sash_ why Palm doesn't support both Ubuntu and Fedora, since he asked. Mar 30 10:25:57 I'm not sure what discussion you're in ;) Mar 30 10:25:58 Many people also use .tar.gz for dokuwiki etc instead of using the distribution's package Mar 30 10:26:08 rwhitby: no, you're throwing a bunch of crap on a pile and you call it an argument. Sorry, that's simply being unfair. Mar 30 10:26:52 sash_, agreed. Tar.gz's are still popular, despite of package managers Mar 30 10:27:14 madnificent: sorry, but you guys simply have no idea about the commercial realities of software support if you think releasing a .tar.gz for use on whatever platform you like results in lower support costs than releasing a single .deb for Ubuntu only. Mar 30 10:27:20 I don't like them too much... But what should I do if there's no other way? :-) Mar 30 10:27:24 In my opinion, it's just not that hard to provide tgz, deb and rpm Mar 30 10:27:39 One interested guy/distribution Mar 30 10:27:43 no-one has said it's hard. it's simply a higher support cost. Mar 30 10:28:06 Why "cost"? Mar 30 10:28:19 You can also provide them withpout support Mar 30 10:28:21 cause that's what executives make decisions based upon. Mar 30 10:28:25 community based for example Mar 30 10:28:35 sash_: sorry, but a company like Palm cannot provide an SDK without support. Mar 30 10:28:44 Of course not Mar 30 10:28:48 But parts of it Mar 30 10:28:50 rwhitby: no, I'm not saying that all of your arguments don't make sense. But most of them are irrelevant. That's throwing crap on a pile and calling it an argument... Mar 30 10:28:54 Linux-Versions for example Mar 30 10:29:09 Make a beta, say unsupported, will work :) Mar 30 10:29:29 madnificent: I think you think I'm making arguments that I am not. Again, I'm simply explaining to sash_ why Palm chose to support a single Linux distro only. Mar 30 10:29:30 rwhitby: clearly, it could cost more. However supplying a .tgz and a .deb is but a script away. So the extra maintenance cost is virtually 0. Mar 30 10:29:53 madnificent: the cost of producing something is less than 10% of the cost to support it. Mar 30 10:29:58 Or you could say "Support only for Ubuntu and Debian" Mar 30 10:30:10 rwhitby: yes, unless they are a 1-1 mapping on each other Mar 30 10:30:13 sash_: even that is more costly than supporting Ubuntu only. Mar 30 10:30:15 Whatever. But you still could provide the packages Mar 30 10:30:22 Or just Ubuntu Mar 30 10:30:27 rwhitby: in which case there is no extra support Mar 30 10:30:34 I don't care about that detail. Mar 30 10:30:47 Linux users usually are just happy to get the packages easily Mar 30 10:30:52 madnificent: seriously you have no idea about the myriad of things that are needed support something Mar 30 10:30:58 Especially developers Mar 30 10:31:06 rwhitby: yes I do, probably better than you :) Mar 30 10:31:22 madnificent: if you did you would not be arguing this case. Mar 30 10:31:43 rwhitby: it's simply that a .deb and a .tgz aren't that far from each other. In fact, the .deb is simply an archive containing two or more tgz (or tar.bz2 or similar) archives. Mar 30 10:31:55 rwhitby: I'd like to make the same argument Mar 30 10:32:49 control.tar.gz anda data.tar.gz and some funny file containing some information Mar 30 10:33:02 well... Mar 30 10:33:29 there's no extra cost in compiling both .deb and .tar.gz files Mar 30 10:33:31 rwhitby: given the fact that HP is willing to give devs a pre2 for free, I thing the cost of supplying a tgz file is negligble (given the fact that they have the .deb file and that both lie so close to each other) Mar 30 10:33:41 but there is extra cost in supporting users who are trying to install and use them Mar 30 10:33:52 phoque: exactly Mar 30 10:34:04 "I have this weird Linux distro and this and that binary is not where the SDK is expecting it to be" Mar 30 10:34:04 and answering questions, and writing doco, and writing web pages, etc etc Mar 30 10:34:08 phoque: but that's the same as saying "We'd rather have people not use our emulator" Mar 30 10:34:13 But if you tell them, they wont get support for the Linux-SDK, they will not care Mar 30 10:34:14 BUT Mar 30 10:34:17 They just want to have it Mar 30 10:34:27 sash_: that's not the case. Mar 30 10:34:30 people who use .tar.gz's are more likely to try and fix it themselves than people using .deb Mar 30 10:34:38 you, an expert, will not case. Mar 30 10:34:38 exactly Mar 30 10:34:47 so Mar 30 10:34:52 joe random developer, will complain cause it doesn't work Mar 30 10:34:54 yes, support costs will rise Mar 30 10:34:59 (also, it's basically: how to get novacom running) Mar 30 10:35:05 you, the expert, know how to use alien or to unpack it Mar 30 10:35:13 joe random developer using linux to develop should know his linux Mar 30 10:35:15 my 2 cents Mar 30 10:35:20 sash_: he does not Mar 30 10:35:36 my guess would be: you supply the tgz: people will make installers for their respective OS Mar 30 10:35:50 madnificent: unfortunately, redistribution rights are not given Mar 30 10:36:00 so you can't do that Mar 30 10:36:02 sash_, rwhitby, he tends to do. but not everone does. Mar 30 10:36:04 for instance: the .deb file makes installing on Gentoo more complex, however there is work being done on the installers Mar 30 10:36:18 rwhitby: you don't need to redeistribute a .tgz :) Mar 30 10:36:56 (eg: installing oracle java in gentoo0 Mar 30 10:36:57 Gentoo, great example. "I have a problem with the SDK running on my Linux sytem". "What version of Linux do you have" "Gentoo" "what USE flags did you use to compile that Gentoo" ..... Mar 30 10:37:00 s/0/) Mar 30 10:37:09 bingo, your support costs have just skyrocketed Mar 30 10:37:14 rwhitby, hehe Mar 30 10:37:16 rwhitby: those questions don't get to palm Mar 30 10:37:21 madnificent: sure they do Mar 30 10:37:22 rwhitby: Things, supporter don't have to care about that, imho Mar 30 10:37:42 Here, look, if it works. If it doesn't, bad luck Mar 30 10:37:46 that's exactly the questions that Palm gets if they say they support any Linux platform Mar 30 10:37:57 one could release the .tar.gz without support, as sash_ said Mar 30 10:37:58 rwhitby: also: you can supply both the binary of virtualbox you want/need and novacom and get it installed in /opt Mar 30 10:38:07 most people using tar.gz are used to not having support anyways Mar 30 10:38:11 either case, support questions go to the package maintainers unless explicitly dictated otherwise Mar 30 10:38:16 no "official support" I mean Mar 30 10:38:35 sash_: yeah right "Tweet: This Palm SDK sucks - they said it would work on any Linux, and it doesn't work on my Gentoo box. Palm sucks". bingo, support *and* PR costs skyrocket. Mar 30 10:38:38 and that is common in both gentoo, ubuntu, fedora, suse, you name it Mar 30 10:38:46 rwhitby: why would they say that?! Mar 30 10:38:50 rwhitby: Well... Mar 30 10:38:52 rwhitby: you're messing things up again! Mar 30 10:39:40 You cannot say: Works on any linux. You just provide the tgz Mar 30 10:39:49 palm says "This is the tgz containing the non-FOSS parts to run the emulator" and "you need libraries X and Y in versions U and Q" Mar 30 10:39:55 note that every single thing you have suggested so far is not only more effort to create than what they do now, but more cost to support, more risk that it doesn't work for the end user, and more hassle for the people who have to support it and reproduce problems reported. Mar 30 10:39:57 And/or other packages, community-users create Mar 30 10:40:33 rwhitby: how so?!?!?!? As I said 10 times before: you can use a script that creates both the tgz and the .deb from source... what the hell is so difficult about that?! Mar 30 10:40:46 rpm, too :P Mar 30 10:41:07 madnificent, he doesn't mean "build the package" but "people reproduce issue reports" Mar 30 10:41:21 sash_: yes, but this is under the assumption that they'd like to support one platform, but allow other platforms's package maintainers Mar 30 10:41:26 madnificent: plus all the doco which says what version of GCC you need installed on Arch Linux to make the SDK work Mar 30 10:41:48 rwhitby: you don't need GCC for the tgz... Mar 30 10:41:49 cause someone has seriously complained in this channel that Palm don't support Arch Linux Mar 30 10:41:50 anyways... I'm glad I'm on Ubuntu. Off to lunch. Mar 30 10:41:55 * madnificent wonders if rwhitby ever built packages... Mar 30 10:41:59 madnificent: but you need OpenGL libraries Mar 30 10:42:13 madnificent: ok, that comment shows your ignorance. Mar 30 10:42:15 rwhitby: and I have answered that before, have something else? Mar 30 10:42:26 rwhitby: OpenGL isn't a problem Mar 30 10:42:43 (at least not from palm's side) Mar 30 10:42:52 madnificent: what is the version of OpenGL on Arch Linux? On Gentoo? On Fedora? which version of each? Mar 30 10:43:02 rwhitby: as I said, it doesn't matter Mar 30 10:43:15 rwhitby: have you ever built a library like that?! have you ever tried to select the right options? Mar 30 10:43:21 it's not that complicated Mar 30 10:43:23 how do you test that the SDK works on each of those? You're a company that tests your products on every platform that you say you support, right? Mar 30 10:43:46 in fact, they could just say "use the options and version ubuntu X.Y uses" Mar 30 10:43:48 and it'd be fair Mar 30 10:43:56 rwhitby: and you don't say that you support everything Mar 30 10:44:00 rwhitby, OpenGL devs are used to knowing exactly what version they have and wich one they need Mar 30 10:44:01 You cannot even guarantee that the SDK runs on every Ubuntu out there Mar 30 10:44:18 sash_: correct, Palm specifically states which versions they do support Mar 30 10:44:23 and they test on those versions only Mar 30 10:44:29 and they write doco for those versions only Mar 30 10:44:35 and they train support engineers for those versions only Mar 30 10:44:36 Yes, fine. Nobody wants more :) Mar 30 10:44:39 rwhitby: try to listen to what everyone besides yourself has said. You don't support every linux distribution, you aide those that want to build packages for them. Mar 30 10:44:46 Just a package :) Mar 30 10:45:08 madnificent: a company cannot devolve responsibility for the end-user experience of their SDK to a community. Mar 30 10:45:12 Package-maintainers know how to handle those 6 files or whatever. Mar 30 10:45:26 let alone the redistribution problem Mar 30 10:45:35 * madnificent stops the argument. rwhitby is more deaf than... a rock or something like it Mar 30 10:45:52 madnificent: your frame of reference is something different from commercial reality. Mar 30 10:45:56 rwhitby, yes they can if they explicitly mark the package/zip as being without official support. Mar 30 10:46:08 phoque: a company cannot do that for their SDK Mar 30 10:46:11 I would not redistribute it. I would give back the rpm to Palm so they can distribute it. for example Mar 30 10:46:25 and/or the specfile Mar 30 10:46:34 sash_: so Palm now has a release dependency on 15 different distribution maintainers? Mar 30 10:46:38 rwhitby, why not? Mar 30 10:47:06 phoque: if you're a company, you can't tell your developers that what you are giving to them to develop their apps is not supported Mar 30 10:47:15 If you have the specfiles or whatever the other packages have, it's veeeeeery easy to repackage the files Mar 30 10:47:30 sash_: ah, but you have to test them all before release Mar 30 10:47:53 commercial reality says you can't release something you haven't tested. Mar 30 10:47:53 Or you let the maintainer test Mar 30 10:48:07 and don't provide the package, if the maintainer sleeps Mar 30 10:48:08 so you're back to a release dependency on someone who doesn't work for your compnay Mar 30 10:48:24 so then the developers on that platform complain cause it's late Mar 30 10:48:30 why not? Most stuff on linux is unsupported anyways... Mar 30 10:48:35 Absolutely Mar 30 10:48:40 And you always have the tgz Mar 30 10:48:43 Everyone can use Mar 30 10:49:09 Um, we're talking about an SDK for a company, not some homebrew Linux program Mar 30 10:49:10 It's very easy to make linux-users happy Mar 30 10:49:27 I know Mar 30 10:49:31 rwhitby, I'm not talking about homebrew Linux stuff Mar 30 10:49:33 http://reviewtomail.com/ better? (still styling) will change the paths when done Mar 30 10:49:41 I'm talking about the browser, the GUI, the shell, the editor Mar 30 10:49:51 nothing comes with commercial grade support Mar 30 10:49:59 unless you buy a really really expensive version Mar 30 10:50:01 phoque: yet you're suggesting that a company can release something unsupported, just cause everyone else in Linux homebrew doesn't support stuff Mar 30 10:50:37 rwhitby: how do you like it? currently have preware.org for some paths but will change that when I'm done Mar 30 10:50:38 no. and by that standard, an unsupported SDK tgz will be fine for the people who use it. Mar 30 10:50:47 thomaschaaf: need help and unsubscribe should be in the boxes as well to my taste Mar 30 10:50:51 thomaschaaf: looks much better :) Mar 30 10:51:31 phoque: an executive of a company cannot agree to take the risk that someone will think that unsupported thing actually is supported, and complain publicly about it. Mar 30 10:51:51 thomaschaaf: perhaps make the fonts of the titles of the palm-group kind-of things in small-caps, I think the pre has caps by default there. Mar 30 10:51:59 thomaschaaf: looks good. Mar 30 10:52:16 Then mark it as beta Mar 30 10:52:19 always Mar 30 10:52:24 thomaschaaf: making the two boxes the same height could also make it look cleaner. Mar 30 10:52:35 sash_: anyway, that's why the SDK is Ubuntu only. And that's from discussion directly with the people who made it, not some random opinion of mine. Mar 30 10:52:41 thomaschaaf: but for the record, it is really cool. It's better than whatever I'd have done with it Mar 30 10:53:10 And how much do they support it? Mar 30 10:53:16 How many E-Mails/day? Mar 30 10:53:18 1 Mar 30 10:53:35 sash_: loads! all asking a .tgz ^_^ (sorry, ignore me, this was too clean) Mar 30 10:53:46 madnificent: :DD Mar 30 10:53:48 sash_: take a look at the developer forum for a start. Mar 30 10:54:14 rwhitby, Palm brought the "wow, our OS is open source" argument to the table themselves. Most people know that most open source software is unsupported. And I bet the executives you're talking about know that as well. Mar 30 10:54:47 phoque: um, webOS is *NOT* open source. Mar 30 10:54:56 and Palm have never said it is. Mar 30 10:55:23 well, all com.palm.app.* apps are. and all linux components are. Mar 30 10:55:26 and they said that Mar 30 10:55:39 phoque: com.palm.app.* apps are *NOT* open source Mar 30 10:55:44 rwhitby: yes they are! Mar 30 10:55:49 yes they are Mar 30 10:55:50 madnificent: rubbish. Mar 30 10:55:56 rwhitby: they aren't in a 'libre' license, but they are open source. Mar 30 10:56:03 have you read the software license under which they are distributed? Mar 30 10:56:03 I watched the first developer video thing Mar 30 10:56:15 and the guys said "yup, all the stock software is OSS too!" Mar 30 10:56:16 rwhitby: 'open source' != an FSF approved license Mar 30 10:56:20 it is definitely not an open source license. Mar 30 10:56:28 madnificent: opensource.org, nothing to do with FSF. Mar 30 10:56:34 I never said there's an open source license Mar 30 10:56:39 rwhitby: it is not GPL compatible... that's different to not being open source. Mar 30 10:56:59 you can't take code from a com.palm.app.* and use it outside of the app catalog. Mar 30 10:57:01 in fact 3-clause BSD is definately an open source license, but it's not GPL compatible Mar 30 10:57:03 definitely not open soruce. Mar 30 10:57:13 rwhitby: and that has got nothing to do with open or closed source... Mar 30 10:57:15 madnificent: it is not OSI-compatible Mar 30 10:57:30 http://opensource.org/docs/osd Mar 30 10:57:42 rwhitby: and anything that is not OSI-compatible is closed source? (Hint: the answer is no) Mar 30 10:57:54 the software license for com.palm.app.* code does not comply with that definition Mar 30 10:58:09 madnificent: um, those are the guys who coined the "open source" term Mar 30 10:58:10 can yo read the code? Mar 30 10:58:37 sash_: the open source definition has nothing to do with being able to read the code Mar 30 10:58:51 I can read closed source code Mar 30 10:59:03 some people get to read the source code of Windows. it's not open source. Mar 30 10:59:52 There is "Open Source" as in FSF-definition but there is also "Open Source" as in "The code is readable by everybody who wants" Mar 30 10:59:52 it is explicitly what OSI considers to be open source, not necessarily what it is. Mar 30 11:00:24 sash_: no, there is "Open Source" according to the definition of the people who coined that term, who, by the way, were not the FSF. Mar 30 11:01:55 have a read of http://opensource.org/history if you're interested. Mar 30 11:02:54 rwhitby: it's quite impossible to accept that simple way of 'taking' terms. The same way as the bio-label (at least in belgium) just took the term and gave it a definition (which at the time was vastly different than it's original meaning) Mar 30 11:03:02 and then compare it to http://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software (which is about "Free Sofware", not 'Open Source") Mar 30 11:03:26 rwhitby: you have a point in the sense that OSI started using the term and that they have chosen to select what *they* would call open source. Mar 30 11:03:46 madnificent: the commonly understood definition of "Open Source" is from the OSI. If you're using some other definition, then you're living in a different frame of reference to me. Mar 30 11:03:59 However, as time passed there have been other licenses which have been called open source and which don't actually fit the label of OSI Mar 30 11:04:03 you might was well say that black is white Mar 30 11:04:43 so when I say open source, I mean the OSI definition. Feel free to translate what I say into your frame of reference. Mar 30 11:04:45 as such, I don't think it's fair to stick with the definition of an instance that was clearly very debian-minded (and thus didn't (and doesn't) represent all involved parties) Mar 30 11:05:04 by common sense most people will place the palm license as being open source. Mar 30 11:05:09 if someone wants a different definition, they should coin their own term Mar 30 11:05:11 If you have an OS, based on Open-Source (That is a fact), it would be nice if you also would support Open Source developers Mar 30 11:05:18 mostly because you can say "the source is open" :) Mar 30 11:05:23 Who use linux for example Mar 30 11:05:23 madnificent: http://reviewtomail.com/ made the button prettier Mar 30 11:05:28 madnificent: I categorically disagree with your last statement. Mar 30 11:05:49 thomaschaaf: sweet! Mar 30 11:06:18 madnificent: I wrote a 50 page thing on open source Mar 30 11:06:18 rwhitby: the source is open to read and adjust as long as you don't distribute it outside of webos? Mar 30 11:06:23 you shoudl read the OSD Mar 30 11:06:24 madnificent: if you think that being able to read a piece of source code gives you any rights under copyright law, then we cannot have a sensible discussion Mar 30 11:06:26 Well, "Open Source" is more than "The source is readable", of course. Free Software Foundation-things, too of course. Mar 30 11:06:28 open source definition Mar 30 11:06:43 and its not open source.. just the source code is readable Mar 30 11:06:50 Oh man, what did I do? Mar 30 11:06:51 rwhitby: Palm's license is more permissive than the GPL in many views :) Mar 30 11:06:56 not allowed to redistribute Mar 30 11:07:01 this discussion is becoming more meta by the minute Mar 30 11:07:07 madnificent: it does not allow me to use their code in Preware. Mar 30 11:07:16 phoque: It's my fault, dont worry :) Mar 30 11:07:30 rwhitby: if you don't put the code outside of webos, you're free to modify it and do with it what you want Mar 30 11:07:48 rwhitby: clearly, that's incompatible with the GPL, I don't really see why you can't use it in preware... Mar 30 11:07:53 madnificent: in fact, the Palm license has an explicit cause preventing you from using the code in a GPL program Mar 30 11:08:09 rwhitby: yes, and the GPL was a bad idea Mar 30 11:08:11 madnificent: you should read the palm license, instead of assuming what it is Mar 30 11:08:54 rwhitby: palm saying that you can only use the code with webos makes it immediately incompatible with the GPL (which requires completely libre distribution) Mar 30 11:09:23 madnificent: right, but it has an explicit additional clause Mar 30 11:09:40 rwhitby: which is there for clarification and is redundant... why does that matter Mar 30 11:10:01 cause it shows it is not an open source license Mar 30 11:10:09 oh? Mar 30 11:10:13 so, BSD is not open source? Mar 30 11:10:18 "madnificent: rwhitby: Palm's license is more permissive than the GPL in many views :)" Mar 30 11:10:32 that is the statement I am talking about Mar 30 11:10:34 I still stand by that Mar 30 11:10:39 it is far more permissive Mar 30 11:10:46 not in the way I stated Mar 30 11:10:58 I don't need to release the source code of my application and allow for the distribution of my app, which I would've had to do with the GPL Mar 30 11:11:04 and not in a way which is compliant with the definition of "Open Source" Mar 30 11:11:33 with OSI's definition of Open Source Mar 30 11:11:49 The Palm license is not compatible with any of the Open Source licenses listed on http://opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical Mar 30 11:11:52 goddamned fuck it rwhitby if you don't read what I say and just keep looping then I'm stopping the argument Mar 30 11:12:01 enjoy yourself Mar 30 11:12:19 common sense might be something you can review later Mar 30 11:12:26 * madnificent stops Mar 30 11:12:27 madnificent: I read exactly what you say, and our frame of reference makes no sense. Mar 30 11:12:34 s/our/your/ Mar 30 11:13:08 you make specious arguments that have no basis in commercial realities or commonly accepted definitions Mar 30 11:14:35 but your best line of all was "21:07 madnificent wonders if rwhitby ever built packages..." :) Mar 30 11:15:30 * rwhitby bbl Mar 30 11:21:14 By the way. In the .deb, there is only Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libusb-0.1-4 (>= 2:0.1.12) in the control-file Mar 30 11:21:37 All distributions younger than 1038361 years ship that Mar 30 11:22:22 sash_: yes, but in case of the PDK, they're relying on libraries which are installed by default on ubuntu, I think Mar 30 11:22:38 sash_: or that's the deb for novacom? Mar 30 11:22:53 (and you're only talking about the novacom deb) Mar 30 11:23:17 yes Mar 30 11:23:29 :-) Mar 30 11:24:47 yeah, could be. I rwhitby was arguing about the features of virtualbox, I think Mar 30 11:25:23 PDK is only available for windows and mac Mar 30 11:26:07 tada: http://reviewtomail.com/ Mar 30 11:26:17 PDK is part of the SDK, i read now Mar 30 11:26:23 thomaschaaf: now with style :) Mar 30 11:26:41 I'm guessing you like it too :) Mar 30 11:26:42 hihi Mar 30 11:27:50 Can i say i small thing`? Mar 30 11:27:54 *may Mar 30 11:28:36 thomaschaaf: congrats! Mar 30 11:28:38

WebOS Review to Mail

<-- could use somthing. Center it for a start maybe? Mar 30 11:30:54 oh right obligatory xkcd 386 Mar 30 11:31:48 madnificent: I iked it like that :( will make it not black though Mar 30 11:31:50 madnificent: :) Mar 30 11:35:28 okay I am done Mar 30 11:35:32 no more :D Mar 30 11:36:10 hehe Mar 30 11:36:19 no center :( Mar 30 11:38:51 hotdp: http://reviewtomail.com/ because of you I had to restart ssh Mar 30 11:39:49 sorry Mar 30 11:40:02 but it was worth it :) Mar 30 11:40:10 where can I get an email icon from webos? Mar 30 11:40:26 "the" icon? Mar 30 11:40:41 If, it is located in a folder where the SDK is Mar 30 11:46:20 thomaschaaf: be careful of the license for that icon ;) Mar 30 11:46:41 rwhitby: I am stealing data from their servers.. Mar 30 11:47:08 don't really care that much since they have told me it is great.. Mar 30 11:47:15 which I find ironic but whatever Mar 30 11:47:26 thomaschaaf: they're all about an open catalog Mar 30 11:47:48 rwhitby: well yea they should make that data easier to access then :D Mar 30 11:47:59 actually don't change it I'd probably kill someone Mar 30 11:48:00 thomaschaaf: true, it's not like the XML feeds Mar 30 11:48:49 thomaschaaf: well, if global app catalog access changes, you might expect that API to change. Mar 30 11:50:01 rwhitby: that would mean they'd have to push an update.. and we all know that takes 5 years :P Mar 30 11:50:11 thomaschaaf: you need a second hand sprint phone so you can get the token to suck data from the US app catalog. Mar 30 11:50:35 rwhitby: I could give you the instructions to get the information I need Mar 30 11:50:47 thomaschaaf: I already know exactly what you need :) Mar 30 11:51:03 thomaschaaf: you must not be following the latest updates to the Impostah app Mar 30 11:51:17 rwhitby: imei, token (device not account), carrier and email address Mar 30 11:52:04 rwhitby: there is a difference between device and account token :) Mar 30 11:52:04 thomaschaaf: or meid for sprint/verizon Mar 30 11:52:12 I guess Mar 30 11:52:25 thomaschaaf: again, you must not be following Impostah progress ;) Mar 30 11:52:34 rwhitby: where can I do that? Mar 30 11:52:43 @webosinternals Mar 30 11:53:20 rwhitby: would you be so kind and provide me with the information? Mar 30 11:53:37 rwhitby: email is schaaf@komola.de Mar 30 11:54:06 thomaschaaf: I do not have a spare token to provide, since what i do with my sprint device would likely stop your service from working Mar 30 11:54:28 rwhitby: what do you mean? Mar 30 11:54:36 thomaschaaf: the token is not reused Mar 30 11:54:59 I am using my token on my device and on the webthing Mar 30 11:55:04 each time that profile is authenticated, it gets a new token and the old token no longer works Mar 30 11:55:19 device token != account token Mar 30 11:55:25 device token doesn't change Mar 30 11:55:43 account token changes everytime Mar 30 11:55:52 I can send you the info to get access to that token Mar 30 11:56:01 via email Mar 30 11:56:39 thomaschaaf: see /msg Mar 30 12:05:03 http://connect.microsoft.com/xboxliveupdate Mar 30 12:05:09 us only, sign up for the update preview Mar 30 12:05:15 er USA only Mar 30 12:08:19 thomaschaaf: so yeah, that's a "palm profile first use" token, which for most people is close enough to permanent between doctoring. Mar 30 12:17:19 woot Mar 30 12:17:27 10mb mem usage in chrome.. steady Mar 30 12:18:03 probably not even that, ya 9.7mb Mar 30 12:21:19 rwhitby: It's purring along! About to do another one. Mar 30 12:21:59 err. 8.4mb now that inspector is closed Mar 30 13:53:03 I take it precentral.net doesn't have a offical chat room? Mar 30 13:57:28 anyone download the app "Selling webOS" yet????? Mar 30 13:58:34 well, anyone interested in the Veer 4G?? Mar 30 13:59:18 Any one else having problems with the google chat app Mar 30 13:59:29 i dont seem tobeable to connect today Mar 30 13:59:45 lemme check Mar 30 14:00:48 I connected fine Mar 30 14:02:24 man, the Selling webOS app is the same video for all :/ Mar 30 14:10:24 PatrickC_Pre2: thanks for looking =) Mar 30 14:11:37 Hi everyone Mar 30 14:17:31 Whats up bunny. Mar 30 14:18:06 nothin', trying to debug the messaging plugins :) Mar 30 14:18:39 hay nutty Mar 30 14:19:17 nuttybuny: did you see the new app by HP in the web feeds? Mar 30 14:20:20 selling webOS? hehehe.. nice... too bad it seems to be for 2.x :( Mar 30 14:26:13 I tried installing the messaging plugins a little while ago, but at that time it was borked and I was working so never tried again lol Mar 30 14:26:13 argh, that instantiateChildWidgets thing is driving me nuts Mar 30 14:39:45 does anybody know an app that shows a list of lists of widgets? :-) Mar 30 14:45:24 Humm does the gtalk app use some network protical other then http eg not port 80? Mar 30 14:45:35 gtalk is just jabber Mar 30 14:45:44 so whatever port the jabber protocol uses Mar 30 14:56:24 gah Mar 30 14:56:35 left headphones t home today Mar 30 14:56:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4FxE3t-7Aw Mar 30 14:56:53 awesome Mar 30 14:59:10 Arr i was hopeing the app would be forwarding over port 80 Mar 30 14:59:11 port 5222 for jabber (tcp) Mar 30 14:59:21 this explains why i can not connect to the server Mar 30 14:59:27 exactly Mar 30 14:59:38 and no option to tunnel it over another port Mar 30 14:59:55 the wifi im using at work only allows s/http Mar 30 15:00:28 humm, shame i can not direct the app to just use 3g Mar 30 15:00:59 * RichT23_ wonders if there is an "app for that" Mar 30 15:01:23 i have had my Pixi for less then a week =) Mar 30 15:01:37 mmm... no, that isn't there..... (yet) :D Mar 30 15:03:09 sounds liek a good idea for an app Mar 30 15:03:28 not sure it would be fun as a my first app app though Mar 30 15:03:35 talk about crash course Mar 30 15:04:19 it wouldn't be easy, that stuff is controlled from a compiled C++ file Mar 30 15:04:30 the imlibpurpletransport service Mar 30 15:06:35 * RichT23_ wonders if some tcpfilter ruls would work Mar 30 15:06:38 rules Mar 30 15:06:41 why noy just put it in airplane mode? Mar 30 15:06:54 or maybe just some route... Mar 30 15:07:10 er not airplane mode Mar 30 15:07:13 turn off wifi Mar 30 15:07:24 * sugardave isn't awake yet. Mar 30 15:07:36 evar Mar 30 15:07:41 truth Mar 30 15:07:49 =) Mar 30 15:08:15 i could do that of course, but then every thing would go via 3g Mar 30 15:10:08 yeah, it is what it is....not sure how easy it would be to write a controlling patch to pick and choose which apps go over which interface Mar 30 15:10:19 try to forward everything that goes to chat.google.com (the problem is that I don't think it's a static ip), and send it to the ppp0 device, or better yet, to your cell data gateway Mar 30 15:10:44 does tcp/ip for WebOS go via "stardard linux" Mar 30 15:10:53 yeah Mar 30 15:11:14 well maybe iptables would do the trick then Mar 30 15:11:14 sure, that's the beauty of the platform Mar 30 15:11:45 it has, in fact, a small firewall written in iptables Mar 30 15:11:47 i do blieave there are patches for iptables that let you filter by application Mar 30 15:12:04 Oh cool then iptables is already implomented Mar 30 15:12:27 i knew there was a reason i wanted to stick with Palm Mar 30 15:13:28 "get a droid" they kept saying... Mar 30 15:13:49 but i have Palm phones since my 650 Mar 30 15:13:59 and palm since before then Mar 30 15:14:48 and ill stop ranting now Mar 30 15:15:36 and think about ways make iptables to do what i want and then how to imploment a gui for it Mar 30 15:18:27 nice, in the meantime I'll control it via the service in Greg's messaging plugins ;) Mar 30 15:20:02 Greg's messaging Mar 30 15:20:04 plugins ? Mar 30 15:20:13 Oh =) Mar 30 15:20:23 is that a webinternaly toy? Mar 30 15:20:54 RichT23_: your rant was hilarious Mar 30 15:22:10 madnificent: i totally avoided the iBone, i was quite proud of that Mar 30 15:22:25 RichT23_: those babies are the ones that let your Pre/Pre Plus/Pre 2 connect to IM networks other than Google/aim/yahoo/icq, it includes MSN, Jabber, QQ, Sametime, Office Communicator, Facebook Chat, newer revisions of aol and gtalk, and I don't remember what others Mar 30 15:23:03 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/278796-synergy-messaging-plugins-webos-2-x.html Mar 30 15:23:19 Oh do they work on 1.4.x too>/ Mar 30 15:23:51 there is a version for 1.4.x, but it's not as elegantly implemented as the 2.x ones Mar 30 15:24:02 NuttyBunny: wow, yes those are the things i have been missing Mar 30 15:24:16 i only just got novacom working Mar 30 15:24:21 the 1.4.x ones have to patch several (a lot) of files, whereas the 2.x come in just one ipk Mar 30 15:24:31 arr Mar 30 15:24:50 i have read that 2.x will not go on the pixi Mar 30 15:25:10 i have only read official doc though Mar 30 15:25:11 Nope, do you have a Pixi? Mar 30 15:25:27 Yup Pixi is what i have Mar 30 15:25:42 Oh, ... no, no 2.x for Pixies, sorry :( Mar 30 15:26:03 mmm.. 9:21... brb, I'm late for work :D Mar 30 15:32:47 hmmm, canvas doesn't like % width/height Mar 30 15:34:26 or ems Mar 30 15:34:30 bummer Mar 30 15:35:12 lol i bought a big ass duck dog toy for the dog, and the cat is playing with it instead Mar 30 15:35:59 dave did you run across any text+canvas guides? i cant remember where i did it last or what site i used. but google isnt behing helpful Mar 30 15:36:11 keeps giving me other libs to use, when i dont want to use em Mar 30 15:36:25 dawm: not yet, I'm still messing with the VERY basics Mar 30 15:36:35 * Klownicle waits anxiously for derek k to respond Mar 30 15:36:37 thats all i need :P Mar 30 15:36:52 maybe im thinking of SDL, i dont think ive drawn text with canvas yet Mar 30 15:36:54 from what I remember, though, you have to draw it yourself or use a library that somebody else has Mar 30 15:37:01 yeah Mar 30 15:37:16 id rather not use a library, it always has bloat i dont need Mar 30 15:37:36 I wonder if/when we will get SVG capability Mar 30 15:38:17 id rather use a font than a bitmap font (more work) Mar 30 15:39:38 rather id like to use my own font Mar 30 15:39:53 right Mar 30 15:40:10 typeface.js redraws the font Mar 30 15:40:18 and i know our webkit has issues with arcs and whatnot Mar 30 15:40:23 so thats out Mar 30 15:42:26 yeah i must have been thinking about drawing in SDL, canvas is soo basic, Mar 30 15:44:58 ugh.. cat is being stupid yet again, why is it around noon he gets stupid Mar 30 15:46:08 brain damage from lack of food...at least that's what he is trying to make you think Mar 30 15:47:06 haha Mar 30 15:47:08 this is bad Mar 30 15:47:10 lol Mar 30 15:47:12 http://canvas-text.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/examples/performance.html Mar 30 15:47:23 in chrome, native is like 9ms, and the library is 166ms Mar 30 15:48:40 jeez, that is horrible Mar 30 15:48:54 so much for that lib :P Mar 30 15:55:59 there, I'm back :) Mar 30 15:58:24 canvas is quite powerful with text Mar 30 15:58:30 more powerful than SDL Mar 30 15:58:41 mozilla has nice examples Mar 30 15:59:12 can it use a custom font like SDL? Mar 30 15:59:22 yes Mar 30 16:00:23 i cant find anything that shows how other than typeface.js which redraws via vectors, which unlikely to work on our webkit Mar 30 16:00:39 wait Mar 30 16:01:03 * sugardave waits for some awesomeness. Mar 30 16:03:08 context.font = 'italic 30px sans-serif'; Mar 30 16:03:13 http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/html-5-canvas-the-basics/#text Mar 30 16:03:18 yeah, that means the user has to have that font Mar 30 16:03:28 well, yes Mar 30 16:03:49 i dont call that a custom font, i just call taht specifying the font ;p Mar 30 16:03:52 it's browser based, you can't load something differnet, or can you with normal DOM? Mar 30 16:04:00 there is @font-face Mar 30 16:04:03 in css Mar 30 16:04:10 but i dont know if our webkit supports it Mar 30 16:04:14 or if canvas can pull from that Mar 30 16:04:27 but even in fontface you would need to use an installed font, or? Mar 30 16:04:31 no Mar 30 16:04:36 @font-face you can point to a url Mar 30 16:04:39 of the font file Mar 30 16:04:45 hm Mar 30 16:05:12 dawm: not in 1.4.5, at least: http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=42439#p42439 Mar 30 16:05:24 fail Mar 30 16:05:32 bitmap font it is, or some ugly system font Mar 30 16:06:30 I just read about font-face, it's not part of CSS2.1 anymore Mar 30 16:06:50 where is swisstomcat with our wrap-up for webOSConnect London? Mar 30 16:09:53 I am slowly accepting that lists within lists within lists, with some event listeners here and there won't work Mar 30 16:10:12 I'm stuck too deeply in recursive thinking Mar 30 16:10:14 thank you, XSLT Mar 30 16:11:20 phoque: they will, but it would be tricky. I have done lists in a list before, but not beyond that level of recursion Mar 30 16:12:03 hmm Mar 30 16:12:38 regarding the fact that I want canvas elements, drawers, tap events and tables next to each other Mar 30 16:12:56 I think a recursive list/item-template-approach will be too complicated Mar 30 16:13:19 possibly, if you can come up with a flatter system it would be easier to manage, for sure Mar 30 16:16:09 what data does a event handler recieve upon execution? Mar 30 16:16:15 all I can find is event.item Mar 30 16:23:06 this is a fun canvas game Mar 30 16:23:06 http://www.benjoffe.com/code/games/torus/ Mar 30 16:23:12 its like round tetris Mar 30 16:30:17 hey sugardave Mar 30 16:30:18 http://raphaeljs.com/tiger.html Mar 30 16:30:25 purty awesome.. too bad Mar 30 16:35:33 that's the gold standard Mar 30 16:36:23 is there a way to access a cookie of an ajax request? Mar 30 16:36:34 cookie is in the headers Mar 30 16:36:41 you may need to parse it tho Mar 30 16:36:51 * maik fiddles Mar 30 16:37:55 fiddlydiddly Mar 30 16:38:36 the only exhibition apps that get listed when I want to "find more" are a small handful of sports apps :( Mar 30 16:43:37 do other people get a more full list? Mar 30 16:43:43 no Mar 30 16:44:19 I think exhibition is sorta interesting, but like watching your phone like a TV. I dunno how compelling it is overall 8D Mar 30 16:44:56 I dont get why you cant use that mode without the touch stone Mar 30 16:45:07 funkatron, it's a perfect bedside alarm clock Mar 30 16:45:18 hmm, no cookie in this header... Mar 30 16:45:22 these headers* Mar 30 16:45:28 CTLAdvance: you "could", pushing the correct stage Mar 30 16:45:32 sure. but I mean, the pre2 does that out of the box in exhibition mode 8D Mar 30 16:45:35 and I can see using the photo thing if I had an office or something at work Mar 30 16:45:37 a clock Mar 30 16:45:50 a photo show of my cute kitties all day long :) Mar 30 16:45:58 I think that's built in too! Mar 30 16:46:13 ok then what makes it so special :) Mar 30 16:46:24 I think the photo thing was 2.1, but yes it's built in Mar 30 16:46:52 govnah could be interesting if you're running tests, and there was talk from someone in here about a themeable clock app Mar 30 16:47:21 The "special" thing is that it runs when you dock it, that's it Mar 30 16:47:26 automagically Mar 30 16:47:56 I wish I could turn on bluetooth when I dock it and have it turn off when I pick it up again Mar 30 16:48:36 chuqui: Ping Mar 30 16:49:11 that would be *perfect* for an in car touchstone, or at a desk with a bluetooth headset, or for my dream of having a bluetooth station that ties into a house phone so that in a big house you don't have to run all the way across it to get the phone (and so you hear it) Mar 30 16:49:33 lol ok Mar 30 16:51:51 roy-pre101: hey Mar 30 16:53:37 How goes? Mar 30 16:54:54 RagingMind, i've seen video from Palm - they've shown that calls could be redirected to touchpad from pre device via bluetooth or wifi. believe, at least automatic syncronisation of palm devices will be possible :) Mar 30 16:55:28 sandrstar, I"ve seen that, but this is a dream I've had since my RAZR Mar 30 16:58:45 seems it might be a good idea to make sw which get intalled on your phone and pc and allow it automatic syncing/calls redirecting Mar 30 17:00:45 not only from the same vendor Mar 30 17:14:19 can i do if (x = ( 2 || 9)) {} ? Mar 30 17:14:53 x can't = 2 or 9 Mar 30 17:15:10 i mean == Mar 30 17:15:40 that would still check if x is equal to the result of 2 || 9, which is probably true, though i have no idea Mar 30 17:16:05 no it doesnt work Mar 30 17:16:05 2 || 9 is false Mar 30 17:16:09 k Mar 30 17:16:13 i <3 chrome javascript console Mar 30 17:16:14 then it checks if x == false Mar 30 17:16:27 heh Mar 30 17:16:29 i just didnt want to have to do if (x == 2 || x == 9) Mar 30 17:16:34 if i didnt have to Mar 30 17:17:03 dawm: Firefox also has a js console, it was stripped from Mozilla in the old times, but it can be still installed as an extension Mar 30 17:17:30 i use chrome cause of webkit Mar 30 17:17:42 firefox is my normal browser tho Mar 30 17:17:45 chrome is just for dev Mar 30 17:18:06 plus firefox eats memory crazy fast Mar 30 17:22:11 i'm still having trouble getting a cookie from an ajax request :( it doesn't show in response.getAllHeaders() Mar 30 17:22:41 damn facebook plugin, sends one dns query for each contact :S Mar 30 17:22:48 oops Mar 30 17:22:58 divided when i should have multiplied :P Mar 30 17:23:18 atleast chrome crash the tab, not the entire browser Mar 30 17:24:02 there, that plays better Mar 30 17:25:33 pfff... seems to crash when the last update isn't simple text... bah, I'll better just disable aliases in facebook chat.. brb Mar 30 17:26:56 reagrding HTML5 databases - is there any way to cancel executeSql processing (say, when user has pressed back)? Mar 30 17:59:39 ugh Mar 30 17:59:45 3.0 beta :| Mar 30 17:59:59 merp Mar 30 18:00:19 wha! Mar 30 18:01:22 donde!? Mar 30 18:01:45 thats cool Mar 30 18:06:15 the months have finally come... Mar 30 18:07:59 hehe Mar 30 18:14:39 oh, enyo/webos3 sdk today so says the twitter eh? Mar 30 18:15:39 :O Mar 30 18:17:21 oil: who am I not following that I should be? :p Mar 30 18:17:28 i saw it on P|C Mar 30 18:17:28 @twtomcat Mar 30 18:17:33 ah Mar 30 18:17:39 goes by swisstomcat here in irc Mar 30 18:19:01 yer Mar 30 18:21:07 https://twitter.com/chpwn/status/53158695055532032 Mar 30 18:22:44 WebOS 3 beta already? Mar 30 18:22:53 :I) Mar 30 18:22:56 didn't 2 just come out of early access? Mar 30 18:23:03 yes Mar 30 18:23:06 heh Mar 30 18:23:16 and 3 fills its gap in ea :) Mar 30 18:23:29 lulzors Mar 30 18:28:32 * maik kicks ajax in the head Mar 30 18:29:34 Hey oil, you still around? Mar 30 18:29:55 Klownicle: how is your fm app doing? Mar 30 18:30:11 i still need a working link for d/l? Mar 30 18:30:13 Good I have a version to post to precentral but derek developer'd the wrong account. Mar 30 18:30:24 So im waiting for him to respond to email Mar 30 18:30:27 I can give you a link Mar 30 18:30:31 pl yes Mar 30 18:30:32 I gave you one I guess you never got it Mar 30 18:34:56 * Klownicle pokes oil Mar 30 18:35:40 eh? Mar 30 18:35:45 Yey! Mar 30 18:35:51 Wonder if you could help me, i hear your the man ;) Mar 30 18:36:07 lol Mar 30 18:36:25 I have a header that is on top of a list. There are fader's attached to the bottom and top of the list. Mar 30 18:36:34 The header top fader doesn't always disapear. Mar 30 18:36:52 It takes a scroll to the bottom and then back to the top to get it to go away. Mar 30 18:36:58 Its not 100% of the time. Mar 30 18:37:06 and you're using the build in stuff? Mar 30 18:37:12 Yes Mar 30 18:37:25 its weird like that sometimes Mar 30 18:37:36 sometimes the bottom one wont show up Mar 30 18:37:45 So its just gay by defination? lol Mar 30 18:37:57 z-order maybe? or is it just not tripping the style setting code to make it visible? Mar 30 18:38:00 i wouldnt call it that, but yeah Mar 30 18:38:12 the z-order is 100,000 per palm's recommendation Mar 30 18:38:14 it just doesnt trigger the change Mar 30 18:38:39 Is there somthing that I could force it to trigger on scroll? Mar 30 18:38:45 time to get into predictive input then. you need to figure out what your user is doing by reading their mind. good luck Mar 30 18:39:00 i actually use 11000 in all my apps Mar 30 18:39:12 oil: you rebel Mar 30 18:39:16 lol Mar 30 18:39:36 Actually im currently using 100, but I tried 100,000 and oddly the text in a list group showed above the fader, but the list group was below. Mar 30 18:39:47 I put it back to 100 just becuase 100,000 didn't make a difference Mar 30 18:46:39 wheeee Mar 30 18:46:53 weee? Mar 30 18:47:31 busy Mar 30 18:47:40 everyone downloading the early access sdk? Mar 30 18:47:45 no... Mar 30 18:47:52 not yet Mar 30 18:47:59 I mean if you were allowed to discuss Mar 30 18:48:06 it's not up yet (?) Mar 30 18:48:15 yeah, think that is underway Mar 30 18:48:18 :D Mar 30 18:48:43 been more than a little nuts getting it up there Mar 30 18:49:53 Still no access to the new site I see Mar 30 18:50:03 The first rule of fight club, is you do not talk about fight club. Mar 30 18:50:10 you should yell at the bits to make the new sdk upload faster Mar 30 18:50:17 developer.hpwebOS.com Mar 30 18:50:18 Shouldn't it be the first rule of fight club is there is no first rule of fight club Mar 30 18:50:19 is correct Mar 30 18:51:15 he.. developer.hpwebos.com.. hice Mar 30 18:51:52 s/hice/nice/ Mar 30 18:52:20 * halfhalo pokes the internet to make it go faster Mar 30 18:56:47 working on it. Mar 30 18:58:23 am i being stupid? doesnt developer.hpwebos.com just redirect to developer.palm.com? Mar 30 18:59:53 Draecos: for now, that's all Mar 30 19:00:48 Xuzz, as long as its not me :P Mar 30 19:10:49 again, good shit happens while I'm away. I need to go away more often Mar 30 19:19:06 Have there been any talk about a tablet with developer discount? Mar 30 19:19:21 * hotdp has a tablet app idea Mar 30 19:20:12 maybe that will be the "making it right" part...if you have a Pre - that never got to 2.x, you get a free tablet :P Mar 30 19:21:24 hehe Mar 30 19:21:30 So i take that as a "no" Mar 30 19:22:05 id rather have a pre3 on whatever network you have a contract with Mar 30 19:22:17 just dont give me a phone if i cant use it :P Mar 30 19:23:46 oh no, it's the fail whale Mar 30 19:29:44 All I know is "coming weeks" Mar 30 19:29:48 has passed.. Mar 30 19:30:32 hmm? Mar 30 19:33:20 can I pass variables to Mojo.View.render() so I can use #{blurp} in the template? Mar 30 19:33:37 I guess in object: {} but the docs arent too clear if it does what I'm after Mar 30 19:35:19 sugardave, I hope modifying the DOM in setup(), then initializing everything there will help/work at all. :-) Mar 30 19:36:00 phoque: with Mojo.View.render, you can pass an object or collection of objects to fill in those template variables, sure Mar 30 19:36:10 cool, thanks Mar 30 19:36:25 and what do I have to do to be able to attach event listeners to the newly attached DOM? Mar 30 19:37:01 you just need the DOM element, the event type, and the handler target Mar 30 19:37:18 sound like I have a new basketball coach Mar 30 19:37:27 haeffb_pre: it ain't me Mar 30 19:37:32 OK... I will figure it out Mar 30 19:37:35 :-) Mar 30 19:38:02 phoque: if you get stuck, you can use webos.pastebin.com and thousands (okay, tens) of webOS developers will rush to your aid Mar 30 19:38:09 matt painter from purdue Mar 30 19:38:24 oh Mar 30 19:38:26 yes? Mar 30 19:38:38 sure :) Mar 30 19:38:48 hmmm Mar 30 19:38:52 are you making fun of me? Mar 30 19:38:53 :-D Mar 30 19:39:14 not at all, that's the paste system we use to look at each others' code Mar 30 19:39:51 yeah, I guessed that Mar 30 19:39:58 it sounded like hundreds of people sitting there Mar 30 19:40:03 waiting for new pasties to come in Mar 30 19:40:04 :-D Mar 30 19:40:30 haha, well, it's not QUITE like that, but somebody will be here to offer their opinions, that's for sure Mar 30 19:40:50 yes, thanks :-) Mar 30 19:43:33 Do you think 3.0 early access with be PC enabled? Mar 30 19:43:43 probably not Mar 30 19:43:51 so, why would canvas coordinates be affected by whether the canvas has a fixed size or a relative size? Mar 30 19:44:18 well... Mar 30 19:44:23 don't you define the size in the markup Mar 30 19:44:29 or css Mar 30 19:44:35 AND in the JS painting the pixels? Mar 30 19:44:41 so my guess is Mar 30 19:45:09 the JS size is streched/shrunk to fit the markup/CSS size Mar 30 19:45:23 just a guess sailing through my mind :-D Mar 30 19:49:54 sugardave! answerer of most all of my questions thus far, how are you? Mar 30 19:50:12 pretty good...waiting for new shit to drop :) Mar 30 19:50:20 mmm, yes Mar 30 19:50:40 well hey, while you wait, i've got a strange question that may or may not be fixable. Mar 30 19:50:50 sure, let's find out :) Mar 30 19:52:08 i'm doing an ajax request to a site. the site's API has a login function which, among other things, should return a Set-Cookie with PHPSESSID. when i issue that request via webOS i don't see the Set-Cookie header, but if i use this app called HTTP Client (Mac) and issue the same thing, i do see it Mar 30 19:52:38 someone at HPalm, the open source package list is a bit messed up around e2fsprogs Mar 30 19:53:22 Twitter is dead... Have you seen this link? Mar 30 19:53:23 http://www.maximumpc.com/article/palm_rise_and_fall_legend Mar 30 19:53:50 maik: erg, you've managed to hit an area I know little-to-nothing about. I know that SOME cookies are handled automatically by webOS and always re-attached when making a new request to a site, but how to get at them....unknown Mar 30 19:54:03 maik: how did you check the headers returning? Mar 30 19:54:08 and that's the theory i've come up with as well Mar 30 19:54:23 response.getAllHeaders() and response.getAllResponseHeaders(), both appear to return the same thing Mar 30 19:54:27 you might use the download manager, maybe? Mar 30 19:54:49 to test i created a local PHP page with setcookie() and my method pulls it out properly Mar 30 19:54:58 heh, see i'm trying to get the PHPSESSID cookie so i can pass that to download manager Mar 30 19:55:38 you use the download manager to grab the page Mar 30 19:56:09 ah well, the header isn#t part of it, forget it Mar 30 19:56:16 you write a C-service Mar 30 19:56:47 ya, basically write my own ajax thing, i've thought about it Mar 30 19:57:26 bogus Mar 30 19:57:51 I think haeffb_pre had found some way to get at all the doc cookies Mar 30 19:57:55 haeffb_pre ? Mar 30 19:58:33 MetaView: that story is depressing Mar 30 19:58:41 nope Mar 30 19:59:31 oh, I must have dreamed it Mar 30 20:00:03 that's scary Mar 30 20:00:11 I know, right? Mar 30 20:00:33 maik: I wonder if you could do it with node.js Mar 30 20:00:41 but then you are limited to 2.x and beyond Mar 30 20:00:51 i had a math teacher in high school tell me the feeling of deja vu is caused by you dreaming the exact sequence of events taking place Mar 30 20:00:58 but thats what all the cool kids do Mar 30 20:01:04 that's a bit of a problem since my target audience (3 people) all have Pre- Mar 30 20:01:08 haha Mar 30 20:01:17 I have a few widgets, named speedRow1, speedRow2 etc. Mar 30 20:01:19 it's a private app :) Mar 30 20:01:23 How can I attach event listeners to them Mar 30 20:01:32 so that speedRow1 manipulates speedDrawer1 Mar 30 20:01:51 mmm, drawers in rows, so good Mar 30 20:01:57 no good :-( Mar 30 20:01:59 ? Mar 30 20:02:18 phoque: this.controller.listen('speedRow1', Mojo.Event.tap, this.openDrawer1Handler.bindAsEventListener(this)); Mar 30 20:02:21 yes good! Mar 30 20:02:21 something like that Mar 30 20:02:35 sugardave, but I can't do that in a for loop Mar 30 20:02:48 you can, but you shouldn't Mar 30 20:02:49 I want to do this.controller.listen('speedRow' + k...) Mar 30 20:02:55 no no Mar 30 20:02:58 hold plz Mar 30 20:03:16 * maik digs through some code Mar 30 20:03:19 what you should do is have on listener ABOVE the list, and then determine which element they clicked, then open the right drawer Mar 30 20:03:28 s/on/one/ Mar 30 20:03:42 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/217593-drawer-inside-list-items.html Mar 30 20:03:43 "above" as in "z-index"? Mar 30 20:03:53 .parentNode Mar 30 20:03:54 above in the DOM, the parent of the list Mar 30 20:03:56 er element or whatever Mar 30 20:04:08 ah, OK Mar 30 20:04:12 right, makes sense Mar 30 20:04:14 or the list itself, but not each row Mar 30 20:04:17 not .tap Mar 30 20:04:20 phoque: Tibfib came up with the best way to toggle drawers in a list Mar 30 20:04:21 but .listTap Mar 30 20:04:33 or whatever that was Mar 30 20:04:34 phoque: right, you can use listTap if you use the list widget Mar 30 20:04:35 thanks sugardave Mar 30 20:04:36 you don't need to loop through each item and attach, that would be bad Mar 30 20:04:36 rught Mar 30 20:04:52 Oh... I think I don't Mar 30 20:05:00 I'll have a look, thanks :-) Mar 30 20:05:13 maik, thanks for the URL Mar 30 20:05:25 np Mar 30 20:06:24 whoa, we're going to get a whole new developer site, too? Mar 30 20:06:26 awesome Mar 30 20:06:35 HURRY UP CHUQUI!!!! Mar 30 20:06:42 a new http://developer.palm.com/? Mar 30 20:06:48 that's what it sounds like Mar 30 20:06:56 hopefull it will feature a proper reference Mar 30 20:06:58 https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12283 Mar 30 20:07:14 right now it's pretty hard to find object- and method-definitions Mar 30 20:07:19 too much blahblah Mar 30 20:07:20 :-) Mar 30 20:07:20 sugardave: WORKING ON IT Mar 30 20:07:50 chuqui: kick the bits harder! Let them know who is boss Mar 30 20:08:14 chuqui: nice! Mar 30 20:08:28 backhanding bits works for me Mar 30 20:08:50 the beatings will continue until morale improves Mar 30 20:09:21 http://developer.hpwebos.com/ ? palm brand completely going away? Mar 30 20:09:32 I guess the writing has been on the wall there Mar 30 20:09:42 I will say this: I have installed the new SDK and enyo -- and you haven't. yet. but I've promised not to use it until you can. Mar 30 20:09:52 SHENANIGAINS Mar 30 20:10:31 chuqui: i demand proof Mar 30 20:10:39 you must stream your screen for us 24/7 so that we may watch Mar 30 20:10:45 chuqui: palm.com going to redirect to hpwebos.com soon? Mar 30 20:10:57 or, however long it takes for it to be posted Mar 30 20:12:16 i got 99 problems and they all bits...es Mar 30 20:12:26 chuqui: you cannot prove the non-existence of something, so I don't believe you :P Mar 30 20:13:23 i can prove that you don't exist Mar 30 20:13:48 sugardave: but that only supports his statement. after all, you don't know he doesn't have it! :) Mar 30 20:13:48 go Mar 30 20:14:09 hmmm Mar 30 20:14:17 it's not working :( Mar 30 20:14:19 * maik tries harder Mar 30 20:14:19 sugardave: it works for the tooth fairy and thousands of gods, why not 3.0 sdk? :) Mar 30 20:14:25 now my brain is hurt Mar 30 20:14:30 HA! it's working! Mar 30 20:14:43 sugardave: you are bad data. therefore, I shall ignore you. Mar 30 20:14:59 * sugardave rolls save for crc-32 check. Mar 30 20:15:07 sometimes i try and concentrate really hard to either explode people or catch things on fire. it hasn't worked, but i know it will someday Mar 30 20:15:19 (any I'll be curious if anyone catches that reference) Mar 30 20:15:35 well now it's on like donkey kong Mar 30 20:15:38 * maik googles Mar 30 20:15:42 is it from Tron? Mar 30 20:15:45 the original Mar 30 20:15:57 Dark Star Mar 30 20:16:05 never seen it Mar 30 20:16:12 me neither, the google prevails though :) Mar 30 20:16:23 and proves chuqui misquoted in his reference Mar 30 20:16:28 false data Mar 30 20:16:32 hrm... Mar 30 20:16:36 I'm using class="palm-list" Mar 30 20:16:42 maik: well done Mar 30 20:16:50 but not x-mojo-element="list" Mar 30 20:16:50 and yha,, I probably got it wrong again. I do that... Mar 30 20:16:51 fear my google-fu Mar 30 20:16:51 what does he win? Mar 30 20:17:01 so no chance to add a listTapped event Mar 30 20:17:04 sneak peak at the Enyo SDK!! Mar 30 20:17:17 but simple tap will work on any DOM element? Mar 30 20:17:18 phoque: is this a dynamic list? Mar 30 20:17:21 yes Mar 30 20:17:22 maik, no Mar 30 20:17:26 k Mar 30 20:17:27 phoque: ah, well, you can still just do Mojo.Event.tap Mar 30 20:17:31 ok Mar 30 20:17:33 will do Mar 30 20:17:34 :-D Mar 30 20:17:48 and then a little trickier to get the row that was tapped, but still do-able Mar 30 20:18:10 the callback is firing OK Mar 30 20:19:05 but event will be undefinded, won't it? Mar 30 20:19:06 while I'm waiting, I finished putting this together.... Mar 30 20:19:07 http://chuqui.smugmug.com/Other/Slideshows/PiedrasBlancas2011/16408540_VBgpM Mar 30 20:19:25 oooh Mar 30 20:19:33 d'awe, sad seal is sad Mar 30 20:19:41 eww Mar 30 20:19:44 seal colonies stink Mar 30 20:19:45 :-) Mar 30 20:20:00 YOU DON'T DISCOUNT THE CUTENESS! Mar 30 20:20:47 chuqui: what camera do you have? Mar 30 20:21:01 maik: Canon 7d Mar 30 20:21:06 phoque: I was upwind. Mar 30 20:21:14 phoque: event should still contain properties Mar 30 20:21:20 wow Mar 30 20:21:21 At that point, mostly pups and a few yearlings. Mar 30 20:21:30 chuqui, good for you (position and camera) :-) Mar 30 20:21:44 sugardave, the docs don't say it Mar 30 20:21:44 chuqui: do you like smugmug? Mar 30 20:21:48 my wife wanted to get into DSLRs so i got her a Pentax K-x for christmas. told her if she really gets into it she can move up. those pictures are stunning though Mar 30 20:21:50 yes, I really like smugmug. Mar 30 20:21:50 any post processing? Mar 30 20:22:02 lots of post processing. Mar 30 20:22:02 I've been thinking about photo site/blog formats recently Mar 30 20:22:17 I'm using smugmug more, flickr a lot less these days. Mar 30 20:22:20 har har, sweet gaming mouse: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_livnqb8Mu11qazp2yo1_500.jpg Mar 30 20:22:29 maik: I really like my Pentax K100D, but when I have moeny, I'm gonna switch kits to nikon Mar 30 20:22:38 the other one to look at is photoshelter, if you're looking for something beyond the free/cheap flickr site. Mar 30 20:22:40 chuqui: what do you use for post if you don't mind me asking? Mar 30 20:23:07 I'm using flickr pro currently, but I'll look at photoshelter Mar 30 20:23:18 Lightroom 3. Very rarely photoshop CS3. A few plug-ins from Nik (Dfine, Viveza, Silver Efex Pro mostly). Mar 30 20:23:24 phoque: the docs....yeah.... Mar 30 20:23:26 I use Photomatix for HDR. Mar 30 20:23:58 cool Mar 30 20:24:06 I'd be very interested in a photo site/blog that I could install on my own server, but that'd have the same API as the "cloud" site Mar 30 20:24:14 I'm going to retire CS3 in favor of elements soon, rather than spend money on another expensive photoshop upgrade I don't need. Other than stitching panoramas, I seem to almost never use photoshop, so I don't want to spend another $700 on it. Mar 30 20:25:00 hi Mar 30 20:25:18 I have CS5 around here somewhere, never installed it though Mar 30 20:25:19 sugardave, it sounded like you knew where I can find the info about what child has been clicked once I caught the click in the parent Mar 30 20:25:22 :-) Mar 30 20:25:31 sorry to bother you all the time... Mar 30 20:25:51 got it during adobe's 80% off sale for students Mar 30 20:26:17 halfhalo: 80% off is still quite a bit Mar 30 20:26:39 chuqui: what lenses did you use on these? Mar 30 20:26:46 came out to 2something Mar 30 20:26:49 here's a pano I did during my recent trip. 10 images stiched. Mar 30 20:26:49 http://chuqui.smugmug.com/Nature/California-Coastline/110315125955chuqsmugmug/1229418214_XKpq8-X3.jpg Mar 30 20:26:50 oha Mar 30 20:26:55 the callback is called three times Mar 30 20:27:08 probably once for each child/parent Mar 30 20:27:24 phoque: something like event.target or event.currentTarget may have the element that is clicked Mar 30 20:27:36 tapped, whatever Mar 30 20:30:19 chuqui Mar 30 20:30:33 maik: yo Mar 30 20:30:43 what lens(es) were you using? Mar 30 20:30:53 nice power plant.... Mar 30 20:31:03 phoque: and you might need to do event.stopPropagation(); in the handler to keep it from firing multiple times, though I haven't really seen it do that before (unless you had multiple listeners on the same element) Mar 30 20:31:24 heh Mar 30 20:31:31 I'm assigning them in a for Mar 30 20:31:45 thanks :-) Mar 30 20:32:07 stop it! Mar 30 20:32:10 :D Mar 30 20:32:16 haha Mar 30 20:32:32 that was from before, when I was trying to assign each line individually Mar 30 20:34:27 maik: my primary lens is the Canon 100-400 IS. my wide angle is a Tamron 28-300, which is a nice lens but I want to upgrade at some point. And I use a Sigma 180 macro once in a while, and I also have a 300 F4 I normally use with a 1.4x tele. Mar 30 20:35:13 cool Mar 30 20:35:39 i don't know much about photography, but i've got a friend who's really into it and wanted to know Mar 30 20:37:39 can I use stuff like event.target.$$("*[x-mojo-element='Drawer']") to manipulate a child of a tapped element? Mar 30 20:37:44 Wee... and so it begins Mar 30 20:37:45 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2924746#post2924746 Mar 30 20:37:47 :-D Mar 30 20:39:17 phoque: no clue what $$ is, but yeah, you can walk the DOM from any element you have Mar 30 20:39:35 you can use straight up js or Prototype Mar 30 20:39:42 $$ is the Prototype-way to use CSS selectors Mar 30 20:39:49 well, there you go Mar 30 20:39:53 that should work Mar 30 20:40:01 I use .select() Mar 30 20:41:07 thanks Mar 30 20:41:10 what are CSS selectors? Mar 30 20:41:13 er, /me googles Mar 30 20:42:12 $A(this.controller.get(someDiv).select('.myClass')); will make an array of all the elements that are children of someDiv with classname "myClass" Mar 30 20:42:46 the $A() part is because .select returns a nodeList and not an array Mar 30 20:44:10 whoa Mar 30 20:44:25 yeah, it's nice Mar 30 20:46:54 hey, no fair...I can't reply to the global announcement thread :( Mar 30 20:49:03 is h1.foo the same as h1 .foo ? Mar 30 20:49:06 in CSS Mar 30 20:49:17 no Mar 30 20:49:45 first example requires h1 have a class of foo, 2nd requires a child element of h1 to have a class of foo ? Mar 30 20:49:49 yes Mar 30 20:49:58 iirc, h1.foo is

but, h1 .foo is a child of h1 with classname foo Mar 30 20:49:58 k Mar 30 20:50:05 whee, I got it Mar 30 20:50:05 kk Mar 30 20:50:14 heh Mar 30 20:51:01 WOHO! Mar 30 20:51:12 sugardave, you're a great helper! Mar 30 20:51:13 :-) Mar 30 20:51:19 afternoon folks Mar 30 20:51:26 yes he is, isn't he ;) Mar 30 20:51:32 phoque: thanks :) Mar 30 20:51:50 any news?? Mar 30 20:51:55 not yet Mar 30 20:52:08 will have some more phone calls next week, I think Mar 30 20:52:43 hope so :) Mar 30 20:52:51 did you see the selling webOS app? Mar 30 20:52:57 the big news is that Enyou and webOS 3.0 go to beta today Mar 30 20:53:05 and dev portal 2.0 Mar 30 20:53:13 Yey! now everyone gets to redo everything heh Mar 30 20:53:17 haha Mar 30 20:53:22 where/when was this announced?? Mar 30 20:53:37 at webOSConnect in London earlier today Mar 30 20:53:37 * PatrickC_Pre check Precenteal Mar 30 20:53:58 awesome!!!! Mar 30 20:54:27 the dev portal was held up though, wasn't it? Mar 30 20:55:57 they're working on it Mar 30 20:55:59 so here's maybe a stupid question Mar 30 20:56:10 * sugardave gets ready with stupid answers. Mar 30 20:56:17 how easy is using oauth in webos? Mar 30 20:56:24 hahahahahahahahahaha Mar 30 20:56:33 it depends, I guess Mar 30 20:56:41 that doesn't sound good Mar 30 20:57:01 do you care if the user is sent to a new card to do the authorization, or do you want to handle it in the app? Mar 30 20:57:30 it doesn't really bother me one way or the other, ideally they wouldn't get sent to a new card, but they can if they need to Mar 30 20:58:05 I think that's the easiest way, and then you just assume they authorized when you come back and try to exchange for an access token Mar 30 20:58:35 yeah, that makes the most sense right now Mar 30 20:58:39 if not, you have to use a webview and then determine (somehow) that they clicked the authorize button, so that you can then exchnage for an access token Mar 30 20:59:09 funkatron has Twitter oatuh in Spaz Mar 30 20:59:15 is there a mechanism by which to do all this auth? or is it stuff I'll have to write? Mar 30 20:59:21 oh Mar 30 20:59:25 summatusmentis: you will need to write it Mar 30 20:59:30 or use an existing library Mar 30 20:59:32 any idea where in the structure he's got it? Mar 30 20:59:41 no clue, I haven't looked at the spaz source Mar 30 20:59:51 I see, well, thanks Mar 30 21:00:39 summatusmentis: I had some luck with this: https://github.com/fillito/WebOS-OAuth Mar 30 21:00:45 I managed to break my app. When I build and deploy to the device, it just hangs. No log messages. JSLint is happy with the source. Any ideas on how to debug this? (Last time this happened, I deployed once from Ares to fix is, but Ares hangs safari lately.) Mar 30 21:01:01 how easy is it to use that library sugardave? Mar 30 21:01:05 I was able to play around with freelancer.com's API and do access token accquisition with it, after modifying some stuff Mar 30 21:01:25 summatusmentis: it's not terrible, just took a while for me to understand what it was doing Mar 30 21:01:33 ok, interesting Mar 30 21:01:37 the hard part of oauth is getting the signature created properly Mar 30 21:02:44 donc: start adding console.log messages in strategic places and see where they stop? Mar 30 21:03:29 sugardave: WebOS-OAuth has a callback scene option Mar 30 21:03:56 which means perhaps upon the server side sending a callback, I could leave the webview? Mar 30 21:05:10 summatusmentis: I didn't do it that way, so not sure how it works. I used "oob" callback method since you can't really do callback URLs to webOS Mar 30 21:05:42 that's the weird www.google.com thing? Mar 30 21:05:49 it's been some months since I messed with it, I think I wasn't happy with how he handled the authorization leg, so I just kind of made up my own way Mar 30 21:05:56 yeah, I didn't do that at all Mar 30 21:06:10 what didn't you like about the auth? Mar 30 21:06:27 man, the android community isn't very helpful... Mar 30 21:06:33 I had a webview in my scene and I looked for a particular page title to let me know the user authorized the request, then I could request my access token Mar 30 21:06:49 it would be very site specific in my case Mar 30 21:07:24 oh boy, something is interfering with the scroller widget Mar 30 21:09:38 ah Mar 30 21:09:53 i set it up before modifying the DOM Mar 30 21:10:45 sugardave: I don't even get a log message from function StageAssistant(). The card never maximizes, its as if my app can't initialize. Mar 30 21:11:29 donc: double-check your appinfo.json and sources.json for typos Mar 30 21:11:36 extra commas, etc. Mar 30 21:13:12 * PatrickC_Pre is booting ubuntu to instal :D Mar 30 21:13:18 sugardave: they're OK too. I'll keep digging Mar 30 21:13:19 s/instal/install/ Mar 30 21:13:40 PatrickC_Pre - The thing is the android community (read google) has whored all of its data out on the web so you can find anything your looking for, in webOS, we have to use our sugardave, our real time live search monkey Mar 30 21:13:50 haha Mar 30 21:13:53 http://webospatterns.zhephree.com/ <- awesome idea Mar 30 21:14:09 :D Mar 30 21:14:50 it's all going to pay off for me one day, I can feel it Mar 30 21:15:38 CTLAdvance: lol Mar 30 21:16:16 Thats why he told you to search for your answer Mar 30 21:16:29 helped you with just enough direction to find it Mar 30 21:17:01 I shouldn't have had the problem though... I'll just uninstall all the JDKs I installed Mar 30 21:17:09 and reinstall the one I need Mar 30 21:17:15 then try it again, Mar 30 21:17:42 dohtem: what's the idea behind that site? Mar 30 21:18:16 Thats where you went wrong Mar 30 21:18:18 I think it's a (shudder) "best practices" site that highlights apps that do certain things well Mar 30 21:18:20 Java Mar 30 21:18:26 maik: zhephree (webOS foursquare dev) lists webOS apps with sexy UI Mar 30 21:18:53 CTLAdvance: I know, but I don't have another choice :/ do I? Mar 30 21:18:59 oh. i suppose since it's his site his opinion is the only that matters Mar 30 21:19:18 you can submit suggestions to him Mar 30 21:19:25 cool Mar 30 21:19:52 i want to see emergency lights on there, i'm pretty proud of that interface Mar 30 21:20:35 wow, i've just come off as a pompous asshole. i apologize. i don't think my designs are any better than anyone else's, and in fact most of mine suck Mar 30 21:20:49 * oil must not make apps that are awesome enough Mar 30 21:21:00 though i do take pride in the ones i love Mar 30 21:21:02 * halfhalo whistles Mar 30 21:21:26 unfortunately 4 out of the 5 apps i've written are private-use only :D Mar 30 21:22:33 sorry, got a phone call Mar 30 21:23:15 CTLAdvance: Java is the only option, right? Mar 30 21:24:31 lol Mar 30 21:25:09 I think that have a native app kit now Mar 30 21:25:22 not sure who they allow to use it though Mar 30 21:25:29 :'( Mar 30 21:25:40 Google allows anything in it Mar 30 21:25:41 er Mar 30 21:25:50 They whore them selves out to anyone Mar 30 21:25:51 er Mar 30 21:25:59 you get the idea Mar 30 21:26:04 Google, you ignorant slut! Mar 30 21:26:07 apparently 'whore' is the word of the day Mar 30 21:26:13 lol Mar 30 21:26:15 :) Mar 30 21:26:15 why is that Mar 30 21:26:27 you've used it twice in the last 10 mins Mar 30 21:26:57 heh Mar 30 21:27:06 sorry was discussing googles plan for success Mar 30 21:27:48 how can all these people respond to that thread, but I have no buttons and am logged in Mar 30 21:27:59 that's weird Mar 30 21:28:20 which thread? Mar 30 21:28:37 and what browser? Mar 30 21:28:37 on palm.com? Mar 30 21:28:43 yep was about to ask that Mar 30 21:29:00 yeah, other threads are fine, though Mar 30 21:29:13 no, on http://developer.hpwebos.com :) Mar 30 21:31:28 redirected :/ Mar 30 21:31:47 I know :/ Mar 30 21:31:57 but, maybe in an hour or so... Mar 30 21:32:05 * PatrickC_Pre wonders what the new site looks like Mar 30 21:32:17 your mom Mar 30 21:32:46 probably Mar 30 21:33:12 ubuntu takes forever to install :/ Mar 30 21:33:15 smooth around the edged, jam packed in the middle Mar 30 21:34:46 http://jsonip.com/ - ha! Mar 30 21:35:05 your ip in json Mar 30 21:35:21 PatrickC_Pres mom runs html5? Mar 30 21:35:56 oil: she doesn't know what HTML5 is :p Mar 30 21:36:10 PatrickC_Pres mom == ie6? Mar 30 21:36:10 I think there is an eval and getting stuffed joke there some where Mar 30 21:36:28 ewww... 6 Mar 30 21:36:35 gotta at least be ie7 Mar 30 21:36:46 friends dont let friends use PatrickC_Pres mom Mar 30 21:36:54 todays webOS connect london Mar 30 21:37:02 Friends get friends to upgrade to IE9 Mar 30 21:37:34 no, friends get friends to upgrade to FF4/Chrome Mar 30 21:37:42 Someone quoted the palm team today saying something like "There is no hardware, but you can develop on an emulator and its fun" Mar 30 21:37:49 heh Mar 30 21:37:50 sugardave: I got it working but I don't know why. I had to delpoy 1x from Ares, now it works when I build and deploy from the command line. I think I need to rip out the remaining bit or ares junk. Mar 30 21:37:54 Friends do not get friends to use chrome Mar 30 21:38:03 IE9 or if needed FF4 Mar 30 21:38:19 even opera Mar 30 21:38:26 oh god Mar 30 21:38:28 Safari!! Mar 30 21:38:38 lol everyone knows safari is a joke, even apple Mar 30 21:38:40 * PatrickC_Pre is just kidding Mar 30 21:38:47 :D Mar 30 21:38:50 oy Mar 30 21:39:17 I think I need to get me some Tapper World Tour Mar 30 21:39:22 hmm Mar 30 21:40:20 * dohtem just played with a Motorola Xoom Mar 30 21:40:27 pretty sweet Mar 30 21:40:40 really? Mar 30 21:40:43 its a solid machine Mar 30 21:40:56 meh Mar 30 21:40:57 yeah, it's solid Mar 30 21:40:59 the back is nice Mar 30 21:41:07 but the software, well :Q Mar 30 21:41:25 not webos Mar 30 21:41:26 oil is like meh, I want me a touch pad by HP, which will probably creek when you squeeze it Mar 30 21:41:34 * oil is fine with that Mar 30 21:41:36 still holding out for HP but I gotta admit, the hardware felt good Mar 30 21:41:38 when you try to change the wallpaper and it crashes and makes you force quit the photo app Mar 30 21:41:39 welp Mar 30 21:41:44 my sprint pre- creaks when i touch it too Mar 30 21:42:02 lol so does the pre2 Mar 30 21:42:07 I wonder if pre3 will be the same Mar 30 21:42:15 dont jinx it Mar 30 21:42:48 the veer 4G wont Mar 30 21:42:52 They should make one with a steel frame like the i4 Mar 30 21:42:56 its too small to creak Mar 30 21:43:07 lol Mar 30 21:43:11 CTLAdvance: disagree Mar 30 21:43:18 so, when did the veer go 4G? Mar 30 21:43:21 you like cheap plastic? Mar 30 21:43:26 How about carbon fiber Mar 30 21:43:27 ? Mar 30 21:43:33 probably since ATT branded their HSDPA+ network as "4G" Mar 30 21:43:37 CTLAdvance: I like metal, but not the iPhone 4; I prefer the original iPhone. Mar 30 21:43:44 which is the same as their 3G network Mar 30 21:43:46 hmm Mar 30 21:43:47 donc: weird, glad it's working, though Mar 30 21:43:47 just a bit faster Mar 30 21:43:54 just a metal curved back yes? Mar 30 21:44:04 Pretty sure they Pre3 and Veer both have beefy ass metal sliders in them now Mar 30 21:44:31 the back of the screens have a pair of metal rails probably 3/4cm wide on each side Mar 30 21:44:34 I think the issue with the Pre- was the circular springs they used Mar 30 21:44:54 yeah, the curve on the sliders was the weak spot Mar 30 21:45:00 that and the fact the track seemed flexible Mar 30 21:45:53 wake me when the new dev portal is up :) Mar 30 21:46:05 Well bing you oil Mar 30 21:46:11 its up!!! Mar 30 21:46:14 * PatrickC_Pre ducks Mar 30 21:47:10 chuqui says there's only 1 more hamster to catch Mar 30 21:47:28 I was just about to say that... Mar 30 21:47:30 sugardave: what, are you leaning on the refresh button? Mar 30 21:47:43 its like I heard an echo Mar 30 21:47:43 at least they aren't gerbils… who knows where one of those might end up Mar 30 21:47:54 no, carefully watching email :) Mar 30 21:48:50 I have it auto subscribe me to any thread I post on :) Mar 30 21:48:53 chuqui: actually, for some reason I can't reply to just THAT thread...so I've been logging out/in, refreshing etc Mar 30 21:48:56 it's weird Mar 30 21:49:25 sugardave has a witty remark to share! Mar 30 21:49:41 dohtem: I did, but I've totally forgotten it by now Mar 30 21:49:44 :) Mar 30 21:49:48 heh Mar 30 21:50:05 sugardave: I THINK if oyu look at it in the announcement forum, it's read only. Since it's a global announcement, it shows up in all forums, so you can reply to it in the other forums. Mar 30 21:50:15 ah! Mar 30 21:50:18 that makes sense Mar 30 21:50:23 tibetan black magic Mar 30 21:50:37 right now, as I understand it, the hold up is getting the old forums to link up right iwth the new portal. a few configuration glitches left to clean up. Mar 30 21:51:50 just archive the posts and make us all get new accounts on a new and much improved forum :) Mar 30 21:51:57 chuqui: will the new SDK be under NDA? Mar 30 21:52:16 sugardave: I THINK if oyu look at it in the announcement forum, it's read only. Since it's a global announcement, it shows up in all forums, so you can reply to it in the other forums. << I always thought that was a weird "feature" of (i think?) phpBB. Mar 30 21:52:46 Xuzz: yeah, I didn't think of that until he said it. Was driving me nuts, though! Mar 30 21:53:07 lol Mar 30 21:53:39 dohtem: it's a beta, so yes. Mar 30 21:54:24 2.1 for the phones is public and production. 3.0b1 is early access, under NDA, and for the touchpad only. You'll still use the 2.1 SDK to do phone work for now. (ultimately this will all merge together again) Mar 30 21:54:50 ooh, I thought it was for phones. Mar 30 21:54:52 nice! Mar 30 21:55:08 Xuzz: surprised me when folks started replying. if I'd realized that, I'd have locked it. once folks started commenting, I let it ride. Mar 30 21:55:26 lol Mar 30 21:55:37 dohtem: no, 3.0 is for the touchpad. enyo will be brought onto the phones down the road, but not today on this release. this is for the tablet form. Mar 30 21:56:27 did the 3.0 stuff get pushed, or is it still in 'talks and planning' stage for today? Mar 30 21:56:36 it's happening Mar 30 21:56:41 "soon" Mar 30 21:56:41 there's a hamster hunt Mar 30 21:57:15 they almost got the hamster! Mar 30 21:57:24 they should have been like "by the end of the month" then dropped it right in everyones lap later that day :) Mar 30 21:57:27 * halfhalo seems to remember "soon" lasting a month last time Mar 30 21:57:28 ^^ from fred Mar 30 21:58:26 yeah, you always under promise on deadlines so it looks like you're amazing at getting stuff out on time Mar 30 21:59:14 w00t Mar 30 21:59:14 just like scotty, gotta tell everyone it takes longer then it does so you're a miracle worker when its early :) Mar 30 21:59:25 life lessons Mar 30 21:59:27 webOS 3 beta @ london event Mar 30 21:59:31 chuqui: big hit. Mar 30 22:00:27 installing 300MB worth of updates Mar 30 22:00:52 we're chasing the last configuration problem and then it'll push. Mar 30 22:01:03 PatrickC_Pre: but you hae to restart in the end not all time like on windoze Mar 30 22:01:18 yay!!! Mar 30 22:01:24 ^^ to chuq Mar 30 22:02:03 all good news, was following on twatter Mar 30 22:02:25 is that like the naughty twitter? Mar 30 22:02:38 lol Mar 30 22:03:58 (turns out there are a bunch of machines in a machineroom somewhere that run the portal, and it's a lot more complicated than running "make install" to get everything running. who knew? grin) Mar 30 22:04:12 seriously, it worked in rehearsal. honest. Mar 30 22:04:20 OK, I'm off to bed Mar 30 22:04:22 Do you at least know where the room is? :] Mar 30 22:04:24 made good progress today Mar 30 22:04:25 :-D Mar 30 22:04:35 anyone know where i can download the 1.4.5 sdk for linux since it's been removed from the developer portal....? Mar 30 22:04:43 dohtem> is that like the naughty twitter? YES! Mar 30 22:04:58 i rarely call things their proper name :) Mar 30 22:05:00 stupid connor Mar 30 22:05:31 connor says to start young Mar 30 22:05:41 too late.. im already old Mar 30 22:05:42 * oil builds time machine Mar 30 22:05:54 lol Mar 30 22:06:07 http://www.facebook.com/palm/posts/122250907851266 Mar 30 22:06:39 oh no, there is a twatter Mar 30 22:06:44 it's horrible Mar 30 22:06:48 don't go there Mar 30 22:06:56 * oil can't resist urge Mar 30 22:07:21 "todays top twats" Mar 30 22:07:28 #1 is a person named hugh jass Mar 30 22:07:58 heh Mar 30 22:08:00 projectalarum: I'm working to get 1.4.5 back on the portal. Mar 30 22:08:23 projectalarum: since we have devices that are tied to that release. Give me a few days. Mar 30 22:08:39 any eta? I was able to find it for Winderz..... Mar 30 22:08:51 excellent Mar 30 22:08:56 Winderz Mar 30 22:08:57 thank you very much Mar 30 22:09:04 is that like North Korean version of windows Mar 30 22:09:32 http://twatter.com/video/baby-laughing-hysterically-at Mar 30 22:09:33 oh noes Mar 30 22:09:42 the new portal doesnt have a reject button.. o_O Mar 30 22:09:58 you can access the new portal Mar 30 22:10:00 ? Mar 30 22:10:05 yay, no reject Mar 30 22:10:14 CTLAdvance, no Mar 30 22:10:18 thats why theres no reject button Mar 30 22:10:22 lol Mar 30 22:10:22 heh Mar 30 22:10:23 ok Mar 30 22:10:29 bazinga Mar 30 22:10:38 the only option is reject Mar 30 22:11:57 still fwding :/ Mar 30 22:12:01 Are we there yet?! Mar 30 22:13:15 not quite Mar 30 22:13:43 Can I shoot the sea lion and get you a new ops team? Mar 30 22:14:07 ;) Mar 30 22:14:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aus1PA5-SyI Mar 30 22:15:52 I need a good irc client for linux Mar 30 22:16:09 suggestions? Mar 30 22:16:12 PatrickC_Pre: Xchat Mar 30 22:16:21 +1 Mar 30 22:16:28 have you ever noticed nbody ever says "I want a mediocre ...... for "? Mar 30 22:16:30 there is NO other :) Mar 30 22:16:38 Draecos: BitchX! Mar 30 22:16:45 not the prettiest you'll ever use, but it has a fine GUI and works well (on Linux, not Windows and especially not Mac) Mar 30 22:16:57 chuqui: I'd take a mediocre notifications system for iOS :) Mar 30 22:17:02 (yay webOS) Mar 30 22:17:13 Draecos: BitchX! NOOOOO Mar 30 22:17:17 :) Mar 30 22:17:40 oh, hey, webOS :o Mar 30 22:17:41 Xuzz, I use Xchat aqua on Mac with 0 problems :) Mar 30 22:17:44 so... i just got an email from a dev relations peep, apparently you can package an app with the 2.1 sdk and set the minimum version.... hrmmmm.... curses self for already uninstalling the sdk.... Mar 30 22:17:53 Draecos: sure, it's just ugly as hell Mar 30 22:18:07 looks no real different to nix ver Mar 30 22:18:11 http://macthemes.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=16808809 this is the best Growl theme for obvious reasons Mar 30 22:18:20 Draecos: that's the issue exactly :P Mar 30 22:18:28 but it looks 10x better and simpler than shit like colloquyeyeyeyeye thing Mar 30 22:18:41 projectalarum: palm-install -use-v1-format ProjectFolder Mar 30 22:18:42 Draecos: (I'd suggest Textual, but they went all Mac App Store and $5 on us... I have a nicer looking fork, but meh.) Mar 30 22:18:59 i like that consistancy tbh Mar 30 22:19:18 consistency on the platform or consistency on the software, always a tradeoff Mar 30 22:19:22 well. time to reinstall and resubmit lol Mar 30 22:19:31 thank you Mar 30 22:19:35 np Mar 30 22:19:41 PatrickC_Pre: irssi Mar 30 22:20:16 Oh noessss, 4.99 ;_; Mar 30 22:20:21 thx Mar 30 22:20:27 xuzz, agreed but im not bothered really how it looks as long as it works Mar 30 22:20:35 FOR ZE MOTHERLAND Mar 30 22:20:54 SineOt: well, it's a barely-changed fork of a GPL app Mar 30 22:20:54 aaanyway Mar 30 22:21:05 (which they have found a "creative" way to somehow turn into BSD) Mar 30 22:21:48 it's updated often, and isn't 30$ like Linkinus :V good enough for me Mar 30 22:22:15 textual doesnt look too bad (not see it before) Mar 30 22:22:42 but for the sake of $5 (or $ to ?), i'll use xchat for free :) Mar 30 22:24:40 Draecos: (you can build it yourself, but xchat is easier) Mar 30 22:24:55 just make sure you are using the latest Xchat; there's a build that's slightly better but harder to find iirc Mar 30 22:25:48 got ver 0.17 on here, latest xchat aqua Mar 30 22:25:54 http://bit.ly/tigerwinning Mar 30 22:26:17 PatrickC_Pre: irssi! Mar 30 22:27:23 chuqui: great link. you're a good one. Mar 30 22:27:29 good night good fight Mar 30 22:27:32 bye Mar 30 22:27:55 I would like a link to http://developer.hpwebos.com Mar 30 22:27:56 :) Mar 30 22:30:04 any pics/videos/slides from the london event? Mar 30 22:34:45 Any idea what's the best category for a conference schedule app? None of the catalog defaults really seem to fit :/ Mar 30 22:36:47 WOOOO PRE2 Mar 30 22:37:29 yay!!!!!!!!!! Mar 30 22:37:48 * cwayne thanks god the UPS driver wasnt a dick Mar 30 22:38:09 omg, national news is "fear earthquakes" and "fault lines everywhere" tonight Mar 30 22:38:17 now all i have to do is either get att or frankenpre it to get on sprint Mar 30 22:41:36 hey sugardave, do you know anything else about that oauth lib? Mar 30 22:41:47 I thought I had it working, but it's just opening a blank page Mar 30 22:44:57 morning Mar 30 22:51:39 lo rwhitby Mar 30 22:52:19 welcome to club F5 Mar 30 22:56:23 ooo Mar 30 22:56:25 purdy Mar 30 22:56:25 https://developer.palm.com/ Mar 30 22:56:27 ;) Mar 30 22:56:35 Draecos: beat me to it. Mar 30 22:56:42 i rule Mar 30 22:56:54 twitter rules actually Mar 30 22:57:21 flashed on my screen with the update Mar 30 22:57:41 NICE Mar 30 22:57:50 quick start guide for iOS devs Mar 30 22:59:01 hello all, i am sorry to say that i am leaving the webos community. Mar 30 22:59:37 it was a pleasure working with you all. Mar 30 22:59:51 even after the new dev site popped up about 5 mins ago grizzler? Mar 30 22:59:54 :) Mar 30 22:59:57 lol Mar 30 23:00:24 the new dev site is nice Mar 30 23:00:25 my main reason for leaving is that i have no more webos devices to play with Mar 30 23:00:30 too bad the forums are still phpBB :p Mar 30 23:00:35 lol phpBB Mar 30 23:00:55 i do still have my verizon pixi laying around some place Mar 30 23:03:29 today sprint was giving me such a hard time with upgrading my phone. i upgraded one line (my moms line) and wanted to swap that new phone onto my line. i asked them if i will be breaking any contracts or agreements, resulting in me to pay the full price of my new phone. They just kept giving me bull answers about $10 fee's for premium a data package.... Mar 30 23:04:03 does anyone know the real answer to my problem? Mar 30 23:04:40 pretty sure you can call *2 and activate the phone on your line that way Mar 30 23:04:50 I used to switch phones on Verizon by dialing *228 Mar 30 23:10:37 new site is up???? Mar 30 23:10:59 yep Mar 30 23:11:35 right, bed Mar 30 23:11:36 nn Mar 30 23:11:57 well, no promo codes :'( Mar 30 23:13:14 SineOt\\Away: phone came pre-activated. Mar 30 23:13:41 sprint is a real ball biter. they're throwing in $10 monthly fee's for "Premium data packages" Mar 30 23:13:41 nice Mar 30 23:13:56 it automatically flags an app as Veer compatible if its Pixi compatible.. Mar 30 23:13:59 but is taht really true? Mar 30 23:14:22 yea.. kinda Mar 30 23:14:26 same screen size Mar 30 23:14:31 Identical screen real estate, and WebOS 2 should be backward compatible in most instances Mar 30 23:14:40 key word is should Mar 30 23:14:56 I don't see why not...homebrew wise there would be issues...but for official apis.... Mar 30 23:15:11 Just Search... hehe Mar 30 23:15:13 oh god they changed the developer portal Mar 30 23:15:15 i dont like change Mar 30 23:15:44 i like the new look Mar 30 23:15:50 yes, forums are still phpbb. needed to do this so we could do something else so we could upgrade the forums. Mar 30 23:15:50 kinda gives the content a card look Mar 30 23:15:55 I DONT LIKE CHANGE Mar 30 23:15:55 but the drop down menus could be better Mar 30 23:16:04 they could have made the drop downs like the app menu Mar 30 23:16:09 chuqui: did the login cookie timeout get changed? Mar 30 23:16:16 I love the new dropdowns; way more usable than most dropdowns you find online Mar 30 23:16:24 hi all Mar 30 23:16:25 rwhitby: no, that won't happen until phpbb dies. unfortunately. Mar 30 23:16:31 ahh.. broken images? Mar 30 23:16:42 in Ares, Mojo how do I scroll to top on the list widget ? Mar 30 23:16:49 dawm: some glitch with the load balancer. a few birthing pains. Mar 30 23:16:58 yah cause its not consitant :P Mar 30 23:16:59 sok Mar 30 23:17:22 oh wait I got it, thnx Mar 30 23:18:31 ew new favicon Mar 30 23:20:27 yay a better looking app page Mar 30 23:20:55 except it has the app cat bug, where it doesnt recognize linebreaks ;p Mar 30 23:21:33 I love the big prominent icon and multiple screenshots, though Mar 30 23:21:45 yeah its way better than before Mar 30 23:21:50 and quick twitter/fb share Mar 30 23:21:55 * PatrickC_Pre hasn't updated an app yet.. in the new page Mar 30 23:22:40 any hooo.. back to tweaking game speed Mar 30 23:23:00 And getting me a beta! lol Mar 30 23:23:42 so am I missing a link on the new site or in the forums or something? Mar 30 23:23:53 A link for what? Mar 30 23:23:53 no? Mar 30 23:23:58 just goto developer.palm.com Mar 30 23:24:24 PatrickC_Pre, well its a kludge but its usable, except it only lets you play one game, and when its over you need to toss it and launch it again Mar 30 23:24:31 guys, I don't quite have the 3.0 stuff rolled out. Mar 30 23:24:39 theres also alot of junk inside so its a large ipk Mar 30 23:24:57 working on it. had another hamster break for freedom. we're chasing it down. as soon as it reutrns my key to the admin interface of phpbb, I'll release the software. Mar 30 23:24:58 PatrickC_Pre, lemme see what i can do :P Mar 30 23:25:44 ipk is 7zip right? Mar 30 23:25:47 :) thanks Mar 30 23:25:56 to do what? Mar 30 23:26:02 remove junk Mar 30 23:26:11 yea Mar 30 23:26:15 chuqui: look behind the cushions on the Palm couch Mar 30 23:26:31 everything is 7zip :) Mar 30 23:27:20 still 50% usage, has the normal jscript game random pause Mar 30 23:27:27 and is about half speed of my desktop version Mar 30 23:28:16 rwhitby: thanks. tried that. Mar 30 23:28:47 chuqui: how about in Adora's chocolate cache? Mar 30 23:28:52 check the freezer Mar 30 23:30:23 darn it Mar 30 23:32:57 rwhitby: ate that. don't tell her. Mar 30 23:33:23 woah, 3.0, didn't really expect it o_O Mar 30 23:33:36 yeah, a 3.0 beta is quite the surprise. Mar 30 23:33:56 * halfhalo likes suprises Mar 30 23:34:00 chuqui: the rate at which she gets chocolate presents, she'll never notice. Mar 30 23:34:04 Same; today is a good day for WebOS surprises for me Mar 30 23:36:17 we've been trying to get this out... glad to see it (mostly) there. Mar 30 23:36:26 and we're working on the "mostly" part. Mar 30 23:38:15 chuqui: And where are the 3.0 doctors for my Pre? ;) (expect that question several times over the next weeks) :D Mar 30 23:38:33 NuttyBunny: 3.0 is for touchpad only. not phones. Mar 30 23:39:34 chuqui: I know, I'm just kidding, but didn't Ruby said that 3.0 would be first on touchpad, and then on phones? ;) Mar 30 23:39:42 chuqui: shades of android 3.0 / honeycomb... Mar 30 23:40:05 DUNDUN Mar 30 23:40:08 NuttyBunny: I wonder if some future 3.x version (not 3.0) will be made for phones Mar 30 23:40:26 Unless they want an absolute versioning nightmare, I suspect the two will converge at some point Mar 30 23:40:41 Probably similar to how iOS started off with two different versions for tablet and phone Mar 30 23:41:38 yeah, makes sense that it would be easier developing a new version to get the tablets working, then add phone support to it later so you can use the same versioning. just conjecture, but here's hoping Mar 30 23:41:43 yahooo! webOS fragmentation!!! hehehe... 1.4.0 in Mexico, 1.4.5 in AT&T and Canada, 2.0.1 for some Pre's 2, 2.1 in German Pre+, etc, etc, etc... :D Mar 30 23:42:21 NuttyBunny: you mean there are people who only upgrade as far as they can OTA? :) Mar 30 23:42:36 I don't mind, as long as there be some sort of making mojo apps work in 3.0 Mar 30 23:43:30 destinal_: I know a few over here that don't even know about 1.4.5... even less 2.1! :D (Yes, Telcel still "gives away" the original GSM Pre Minus, with a 12 month contract, stuck on 1.4.0) Mar 30 23:44:23 nice. maybe if someone weaponizes an exploit for some of the vulnerabilities fixed between 1.4.0 and 1.4.5, they'll come up with an OTA update finally? Mar 30 23:44:52 chuqui: how about....NOW?! Mar 30 23:45:17 destinal_: heh, nah, Telcel will replace their Pres instead with some outdated Android handset Mar 30 23:45:49 Like my gf's Xperia Mini Pro, stupid thing, Sony won't release 2.1 for it! (or 2.2, the one with flash) Mar 30 23:46:05 speaking of which, if there are vulns found in 1.4.5, will palm OTA a 1.4.6? Mar 30 23:46:50 whee! caught the hamster. hold on. Mar 30 23:46:55 oh goodie Mar 30 23:47:16 argh, I'll miss the party :P Mar 30 23:47:17 * funkatron starts lining up more stuff to be mad about Mar 30 23:47:21 heh Mar 30 23:47:25 I bet it doesn't work with VBox4 Mar 30 23:47:33 PatrickC_Pre, you there? Mar 30 23:47:37 yay!! Mar 30 23:47:42 im here Mar 30 23:47:49 i got the ipk down to 43kb from 1864kb :P Mar 30 23:48:02 pm me your email Mar 30 23:48:14 funkatron: RAGE! Mar 30 23:48:17 hmm, did something happen today? Mar 30 23:48:18 I hope it doesn't work with vb4, or < 3.0 is updated to 4, i have old apps to maintain %) Mar 30 23:48:20 * funkatron throws things Mar 30 23:48:30 lol Mar 30 23:48:38 bah, I can't lower the messaging plugins ipk to less than 6Mb :P Mar 30 23:48:38 3.0 images can be upgraded to 4 images Mar 30 23:48:55 yay, updated dev portal! Mar 30 23:49:01 and the old images run fine in vb4. you just can't make new ones Mar 30 23:49:03 and 3.0 beta!! Mar 30 23:49:29 Tibfib: yes, updated Portal with no traces of Palm!!! Yay!!! (NOT!) -- just the domain remains Mar 30 23:49:31 and the commands don't exactly work either Mar 30 23:49:34 hm, should try again, last time it didn't work out well Mar 30 23:49:51 * Tibfib is still going to developer.palm.com Mar 30 23:50:19 site is WAYY better Mar 30 23:50:24 that's what I said, only the domain name remains Mar 30 23:50:30 * rwhitby is over Palm. HP is two less characters to type, and that's all that matters. Mar 30 23:50:40 hahaha Mar 30 23:50:49 hey, you want webOS to be dead tech, or you want the Palm name? Mar 30 23:51:11 do I have to answer? Mar 30 23:51:29 see, I didn't like PalmOS particularly, so... Mar 30 23:51:29 neither, I want webOS to dominate the world :D Mar 30 23:51:29 funkatron: is it possible to have neither? Mar 30 23:51:46 hehe, just type -> just search :) Mar 30 23:51:47 rwhitby, I think no Mar 30 23:52:04 just search is over-hyped Mar 30 23:52:16 font sizes will take a bit to get used to Mar 30 23:52:23 im beginning to miss my pre... Mar 30 23:52:35 bb keyboards suck Mar 30 23:52:36 just my luck... I'll have to download on the road :) Mar 30 23:52:37 how can something called "Just " be over-hyped? It's just , nothing more. Mar 30 23:53:11 well, in my mind it is...it failed to return a lot of threads it should have when I searched for something Mar 30 23:53:19 so, no fixes there yet :) Mar 30 23:53:26 sugardave: it kind of fails for me too Mar 30 23:53:41 I always do the forum-specific search on the forum home page Mar 30 23:53:45 https://developer.palm.com/content/showcase/device_showcase.html I have random device disappear every time i refresh the page... Mar 30 23:53:47 Site-wide search has rarely worked for me for forum topics Mar 30 23:54:02 ianbeck: that works mostly, but still fails in some ways Mar 30 23:54:31 sugardave: yeah, be nice if it searched private forums, for one Mar 30 23:54:37 exactly Mar 30 23:54:42 qillerneu: I have noticed a lot of randomly invisible icons too Mar 30 23:54:47 see, I didn't like PalmOS particularly, so... << aww, i did :P Mar 30 23:54:53 on the new site Mar 30 23:55:18 I believe Chuq said the missing images are due to their load-balancing servers not having caught up with the new site just yet Mar 30 23:55:30 there, finally the rest of the css kicks in :) Mar 30 23:55:44 * NuttyBunny reloads Mar 30 23:57:44 I see the same page :) Mar 30 23:57:45 hmm, some people say forum search DOES work on ea forums Mar 30 23:57:51 is there a different 3.0 program Mar 30 23:57:56 or is it not out yet Mar 30 23:58:12 Can other people not post in the EA forum anymore? Mar 30 23:58:20 well, I'll be...it does work on them Mar 30 23:58:21 I want to complement the new design :/ Mar 30 23:58:23 WOOHOO!!! Mar 30 23:58:29 sugardave: ? Mar 30 23:58:40 forum search for ea forums Mar 30 23:58:44 works Mar 30 23:58:47 it's like.... Mar 30 23:58:48 YAYAYYAY Mar 30 23:58:51 bbl Mar 30 23:58:51 it's like a new day! Mar 30 23:59:03 sugardave: Oddly enough, I searched "svg" just now and it still shows up with nothing >_> Mar 30 23:59:09 CTLAdvance: chuqui is whipping the hamsters as we speak Mar 30 23:59:12 hmmm Mar 30 23:59:18 ah ok Mar 30 23:59:19 I searched htmlcontent Mar 30 23:59:20 Maybe too short? Mar 30 23:59:22 the redirect works now Mar 30 23:59:24 and got it Mar 30 23:59:25 whack! bad hamster Mar 30 23:59:29 so was wondering if it was up Mar 30 23:59:39 I have a cattle prod if you need it Mar 30 23:59:43 sugardave: Just searched "implementation" Mar 30 23:59:45 great for contractors Mar 30 23:59:47 No results Mar 31 00:00:01 Chuqui's upload buffer... 1%...... 2%...... Mar 31 00:00:03 "enyo" turns up a bunch of private forum results for me Mar 31 00:00:05 I hardly think that word hasn't been used... Mar 31 00:00:15 PatrickC_Pre, YOU HAVE MAIL Mar 31 00:00:16 BrianBlakely: wrong search Mar 31 00:00:23 the private forums are now searchable, so if you have access, they'll show up in search results. Mar 31 00:00:25 BrianBlakely: go to the forum home Mar 31 00:00:28 Which is making me super happy; that'll go a long way towards making the forums more useful Mar 31 00:00:30 BrianBlakely: Maybe svg has too few letters :) Mar 31 00:00:32 I love it when people who don't work at HP answer my questions that only someone at HP could answer. Mar 31 00:00:38 then in the left navbar about halfway down Mar 31 00:00:39 i wrote soem quick and dirty instructions of game play and the mechanics of everything Mar 31 00:00:48 did i just see 3.0 posts disappear from ea forum? probably a new one coming up? Mar 31 00:01:00 sugardave: The "Just Search" bar? Mar 31 00:01:05 Ohhhh Mar 31 00:01:07 BrianBlakely: no Mar 31 00:01:08 ....3%.... upload failed ... retry Mar 31 00:01:10 The "Forum Search" Mar 31 00:01:12 Search: Just Do It Mar 31 00:01:13 yeah Mar 31 00:01:17 derp Mar 31 00:01:26 okay I'm off to play games with my kid. bbl Mar 31 00:01:34 That's awfully misleading :p Mar 31 00:01:54 dave, would you be interested in playtesting this beta? would like another set of eyes on it, and i know i can trust you :) Mar 31 00:02:02 qillerneu: yes, you did. Mar 31 00:02:08 either sugardave or SineOtter Mar 31 00:02:21 OMG the forum is messed up what's goin ooooon Mar 31 00:02:22 dawm: I'll playtest a rock :p Mar 31 00:02:24 (hint yes) Mar 31 00:02:29 pm me your email Mar 31 00:02:43 this is early beta.. there arent even any scenes :P Mar 31 00:02:49 chuqui: is hamster also the upload mechanism? like a little sd card pouch on a hamster collar? ;) Mar 31 00:02:57 dawm: is this that drop game? Mar 31 00:03:02 yes Mar 31 00:03:03 The latest post is from 3/14 Mar 31 00:03:09 destinal: lol Mar 31 00:03:11 BrianBlakely: not messed up, just being restructured. Mar 31 00:03:25 destinal_: pigeon http post Mar 31 00:03:37 chuqui: Oh-ho Mar 31 00:04:07 http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html Mar 31 00:04:08 Alright, will be back in an hour, going home and fooding Mar 31 00:04:15 chuqui: you didn't press the big red button, did you? Mar 31 00:04:18 PatrickC_Pre, sugardave, SineOtter this is Pre only. its not PIXI ready Mar 31 00:04:32 destinal_: not quite yet. waiting for one thing to get fixed before I open the door. Mar 31 00:04:44 but I'm doing the prep work so we can. Mar 31 00:04:46 * SineOtter runs it on his Pixi anyways, complains it doesn't work!!! Mar 31 00:04:57 you run it on a pixi and you wont see the whole screen :P Mar 31 00:04:59 dawn: I thought it was Palmpad ready, not Pre nor Pixy Mar 31 00:04:59 Touchpad Mar 31 00:04:59 sorry Mar 31 00:05:27 it has the usual js game lag every once in awhile Mar 31 00:05:59 Ok, who should I follow on twitter to know the moment this beast gets out from the door? ;) Mar 31 00:06:04 * destinal_ is scared of the big red button. those things have a tendency to cause mass destruction. (but it's so hard to resist pressing them) Mar 31 00:06:25 Adora, chuqui, for all this talk of 3.0 being available "now" it sure is hard to find a download link… :p Mar 31 00:06:43 SineOtter: blame gremlins. it worked in rehearsal Mar 31 00:06:51 SineOtter: now for varying definitions of now, especially low precision ones. Mar 31 00:07:22 chuqui: the new site looks really cool, though, so that's something :) Mar 31 00:07:23 perhaps I should have said it will be available terrectly Mar 31 00:07:27 Now as in "this general time period" which ranges from 2009-2013 Mar 31 00:07:41 SineOtter: in the coming units of time Mar 31 00:07:52 Adora: Possibly! I just got up from a nap to see "NOW!" and was like AHHHH WHERE DID THE LINK GO HIDING Mar 31 00:09:08 well, that's it for me, I won't stay here anymore (at work)... I'll follow this on twitter, and if oil and the gang have fixed wIRC, well, in the car :D Mar 31 00:09:29 NuttyBunny: wIRC is broken? slander! (er, libel?) Mar 31 00:09:30 what was the local time in the UK when they said now? Mar 31 00:09:51 Well, it's 1AM Thursday morning there. P: Mar 31 00:10:11 destinal_: It won't reconnect when losing network :) or at least that's what it did a few versions ago. Mar 31 00:10:23 I'm just saying..it's not 6PM in CA yet ;) Mar 31 00:10:28 Argh, 65% battery, I hope it lasts :) Mar 31 00:11:21 Loudergood: It will be in 54 minutes! :P Mar 31 00:11:44 argh... "Cesar here will now connect and check what the IPS is doing" Mar 31 00:11:49 yup Mar 31 00:11:56 I knew I had to run 5 minutes earlier! Mar 31 00:13:13 NuttyBunny: intrusion prevention system? I'm far too familiar with those (the fun of being on an IT Security team) Mar 31 00:14:13 Man, when I worked at Disney, I wanted to punch whoever set up the intrusion stuff on the doors to the server room in the building I worked in. >:C Mar 31 00:14:34 Because the only bathroom in said building was on the other side of the secured/controlled door! Mar 31 00:15:12 beats working in a clean room bunny suit ;) Mar 31 00:15:21 destinal_: yes, one of those.. :P Mar 31 00:16:05 heh, the ones I used are made by a company that now coincidentally enough, is part of HP. Mar 31 00:16:37 guess they should make them run webos :) Mar 31 00:16:48 god, I love launch days. Mar 31 00:16:59 lol Mar 31 00:17:11 Launching things always works so smoothly, doesn't it? Mar 31 00:17:36 chuqui: the hamsters probably thought it was time for _lunch_ .. so hard to teach a hamster commands Mar 31 00:19:18 ianbeck: yeah, bad memories of large enterprise IT shops that pushed quarterly releases, inevitably, all kinds of things break unexpectedly Mar 31 00:19:20 so...anything new today? Mar 31 00:19:39 I had hamsters for several years Mar 31 00:19:57 besides my new basketball coach saying "thanks, but no thanks?" Mar 31 00:20:03 destinal_: My favorite were the clients who wanted to launch a big new change really late after the work day. "That way it won't break the site!" Mar 31 00:20:12 Yeah, right. Because that ever worked out Mar 31 00:20:37 ianbeck: in my experience pushing things at 2AM just means that your engineers won't be there at 6AM when people start noticing problems Mar 31 00:20:47 ding ding ding Mar 31 00:20:54 destinal_: Exactly Mar 31 00:21:00 And then the site is broken even longer Mar 31 00:21:05 yup Mar 31 00:21:39 yuck. I haven't submitted an app update since Oct 2010 Mar 31 00:21:45 bad haeffb Mar 31 00:22:02 awesome, haeffb can be the first to try it out! Mar 31 00:22:11 ok, wirc doesn't connect on the first try Mar 31 00:22:16 3.0sdk still on hold? Mar 31 00:22:25 I think it will fail me inthe middle of the roar :) Mar 31 00:22:29 doar Mar 31 00:22:31 road Mar 31 00:22:37 haeffb: nope. same old same old. Mar 31 00:22:51 chuqui: still on vacation? Mar 31 00:22:54 :) Mar 31 00:22:55 solix: we're resolving one final issue with a router between me and the download bits. Mar 31 00:23:04 Ok, I'm ready. Mar 31 00:23:10 haeffb: nope. and now oyu know why I cancelled time off this week... Mar 31 00:23:37 sugardave: should I submit an app update today? Mar 31 00:23:51 haeffb: well, one reason. the other was yosemite got pummeled by snow... Mar 31 00:23:53 haeffb: are you feeling lucky? Mar 31 00:24:04 haeffb: well, it depends on how lucky you are feeling Mar 31 00:24:04 haeffb: WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG? Mar 31 00:24:07 dammit rwhitby Mar 31 00:24:33 Ok. Sounds like a plan then. Mar 31 00:24:36 Good luck, chuqui! I'll check back in after dinner, and I hope you are able to get your own without waiting too long Mar 31 00:25:24 woohoo. my apps are compatible with the Veer! Mar 31 00:25:40 yay! Mar 31 00:25:57 there's a vending machine handy. Mar 31 00:26:15 argh. I have to update my mini and small icons yet. Mar 31 00:26:20 or send minions out for food Mar 31 00:27:13 Is this Kim Clusters going "whoooo!" with every shot? Mar 31 00:27:40 it's disconcerting, and I'm not even on the court Mar 31 00:28:50 sugardave, SineOtter, PatrickC_Pre you all have email since dave broke it, and i had to fix it Mar 31 00:29:08 I will break anything that gets to me Mar 31 00:29:18 I am Shiva, destroyer of code Mar 31 00:29:18 lol Mar 31 00:29:37 so, user want's search to ignore accented characters. Mar 31 00:29:44 how would one go about doing that? Mar 31 00:29:56 check keycodes? Mar 31 00:30:21 or strip naughty chars Mar 31 00:30:23 You could make a list of all the a-type, o-type, etc. chars... Mar 31 00:30:43 replace a with a tilde with just a, then search Mar 31 00:30:47 a fancy regex could do it Mar 31 00:30:47 seems a pain. Mar 31 00:31:00 why does the user want that? Mar 31 00:31:14 I could just say "move to US and use only English" Mar 31 00:31:28 oh yeah for those that have my beta, i turned logging back on Mar 31 00:31:33 I was going to just say "deal with it" Mar 31 00:31:43 Anyone else having problems with early access forums? All post from last two weeks are gone (at least for me).... Mar 31 00:32:10 "For me this feature is very important because many words in Spanish are introduced in two ways: with an accent and no accent." Mar 31 00:32:18 fwos: there's major work going on with all that stuff at palm right this minute Mar 31 00:32:22 fwos: me too Mar 31 00:32:40 however, i'd assume it's related to the new site, and will let it be for now Mar 31 00:32:54 fwos: everything's working for me...because I copied the Internet to my laptop last night. Mar 31 00:32:55 Glad I'm not the only one. :) Thanks Louder. Mar 31 00:33:09 * haeffb likes to have a backup Mar 31 00:33:27 haeffb: so should searching for both be the ideal? Mar 31 00:33:40 haeffb: to your HP LapTouch laptop? :) Mar 31 00:33:54 haeffb: what's the command for that again? wget all ? Mar 31 00:33:55 fwos: don't be ridiculous. Mar 31 00:34:05 cp Universe backupUniverse Mar 31 00:35:02 SineOtter: I think replacing the accented chars in the two strings before comparing Mar 31 00:35:26 * haeffb going to get another beer. Mar 31 00:35:32 anybody else need one? Mar 31 00:35:45 yes plz Mar 31 00:35:53 Nah, thanks I'm fine. Mar 31 00:36:30 ok dave, ive tested beyond 900 points, seems to continue to work as it should :P Mar 31 00:36:43 altho getting past level 9 was pretty close Mar 31 00:37:15 herp derp Mar 31 00:37:46 is it just me or are messages disappearing? Mar 31 00:38:49 @funkatron: ? Mar 31 00:38:59 from the forums Mar 31 00:39:01 sorry Mar 31 00:39:09 Yes they are Mar 31 00:39:15 eep. Mar 31 00:39:16 ugh, Verizon DSL @_@ Mar 31 00:39:24 fwos: there's major work going on with all that stuff at palm right this minute Mar 31 00:39:29 funkatron: chuqui said he is moving stuff around Mar 31 00:39:35 sounds like they're having php/sql party Mar 31 00:39:47 funkatron: that's me. they'll be back. Mar 31 00:39:48 ah, ops. Mar 31 00:39:51 8D Mar 31 00:39:55 no sweat chuq Mar 31 00:40:31 Oh, Hi Chuq. Mar 31 00:41:52 what's the secret code to package as a v1.x app from the 2.x SDK? Mar 31 00:42:25 try typing palm-package --help Mar 31 00:42:45 yeah, there's --use-v1-format or somethin' Mar 31 00:44:17 dawm: 3734 is my new high score Mar 31 00:44:18 --use-v1-format Mar 31 00:44:30 SineOtter wins Mar 31 00:44:36 also funkatron wins Mar 31 00:44:41 haha Mar 31 00:44:49 i cannot recall my highest Mar 31 00:45:04 sugardave: dawm means you win Mar 31 00:45:12 well technically Mar 31 00:45:18 i can just do score = 394839489384938434; Mar 31 00:45:26 i <3 chrome console Mar 31 00:45:35 haha Mar 31 00:45:53 but its playable and enjoyable? Mar 31 00:46:19 yeah, are you going to have different modes/options? like a constant speed "endurance" mode or something? Mar 31 00:46:28 yeah 2 modes planned Mar 31 00:46:39 I like the fact that it drops back to slow speed to keep you going Mar 31 00:46:39 what's the secret code to get line breaks working in the app catalog? Mar 31 00:46:44 a normal, where your limited 100 taps per 1000 points Mar 31 00:46:44 using & ? Mar 31 00:46:49 haeffb: put a & in there somewhere Mar 31 00:46:54 once you hit 1000 you get another 100 taps Mar 31 00:46:54 use & in description Mar 31 00:47:02 and then a casual mode, which doesnt limit taps Mar 31 00:47:06 You know what game has sucked far more of my time than it should have? Bejeweled Twist :C Mar 31 00:47:23 i play bejeweled blitz on fb daily Mar 31 00:47:34 im always the highest of my 'team' Mar 31 00:47:37 Blitz is ehhhhhh, but Twist? Twist is freaking awesome Mar 31 00:47:41 610k this week Mar 31 00:48:02 ive amassed 1.5million coins in blitz Mar 31 00:48:05 Flat tire! Great!!! :@ Mar 31 00:48:50 bbl Mar 31 00:50:11 sugardave, theres gonna be stats tracking, and achievements, and if i get motivated online score tracking (or if openfeint gives me access) Mar 31 00:50:34 i already have 2 hidden achievements coded Mar 31 00:50:38 dawm: yeah, I'd be interested in hearing about openfeint Mar 31 00:50:43 make the achievements like, not suck okay :Q Mar 31 00:50:44 seems handy Mar 31 00:51:03 i got an email back from them just an automated 'high volume of requests' sorta thing Mar 31 00:51:05 first person to unlock an achievement gets some stickers! Mar 31 00:51:46 SineOtter, ive got like 20 achievements planned Mar 31 00:51:51 dawm: are any of those webOS dev stickers still in stock? Mar 31 00:51:59 yeah Mar 31 00:52:05 that website will stop working when im out Mar 31 00:52:14 well it will say sold out if you try to buy one Mar 31 00:52:27 * dohtem hasnt used his sticker yet Mar 31 00:52:42 cant decide what to stick it on :) Mar 31 00:52:48 oh wait ive got 3 hidden achievements Mar 31 00:52:53 er 4 Mar 31 00:53:10 is the "learned to count!" achievement one of them? Mar 31 00:53:11 the 16 other are the usual played for x minutes/hours Mar 31 00:53:18 or cleared x blocks Mar 31 00:53:35 but i think some are impossible Mar 31 00:53:39 so ill have to think more Mar 31 00:53:51 like a 50 block chain.. Mar 31 00:53:59 the board is 120 blocks Mar 31 00:54:16 I don't know, sounds doable Mar 31 00:54:20 50 blocks Mar 31 00:54:22 damn Mar 31 00:54:22 have you played it yet? Mar 31 00:55:03 not yet Mar 31 00:55:12 only have my pixi handy :p Mar 31 00:55:16 you'll rethink that statment Mar 31 00:55:22 yeah its not pixi ready Mar 31 00:55:36 the gameboard is 320x452 Mar 31 00:55:49 some brave soul is attempting to submit an app: https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=12301&view=unread#unread Mar 31 00:56:01 * NuttyBunny wonders if bejeweled blitz runs on his Pre+ w/flash Mar 31 00:56:09 "runs" Mar 31 00:56:12 oh gosh Mar 31 00:56:18 its sluggish on my macbook Mar 31 00:56:41 grrrr Mar 31 00:56:48 runs or crawls? Mar 31 00:57:42 hmmm...new terms & conditions for submitting apps Mar 31 00:57:45 ugh Mar 31 00:57:48 have to work tomorrow Mar 31 00:57:53 what exactly has changed with the new App catalog agreement? Mar 31 00:57:57 was so nice actually having all 3 of my off days this week Mar 31 00:58:06 actually did everything i planned Mar 31 00:58:19 #winning! Mar 31 00:59:07 probably not much, I'd imagine it's just updates on terms Mar 31 00:59:15 like replacing Palm with HP Mar 31 00:59:27 Ok, App Submitted. What could possibly go wrong? Mar 31 00:59:37 It gets lost for 2 weeks. Mar 31 00:59:40 haha Mar 31 01:00:12 "Application? what application? Mar 31 01:00:20 PRAISE THE LORD! they updated application pages Mar 31 01:00:35 Palm is excited that you have submitted your app to us for evaluation to be included in the Palm® App Catalog. Mar 31 01:00:38 https://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.rovio.angrybirds Mar 31 01:00:40 One of my apps been "ready for review" for last 8 days. Mar 31 01:00:47 * haeffb will be the only new app in the catalog tomorrow... :) Mar 31 01:00:53 haha Mar 31 01:01:22 or will be assasinated by a roving band of hamsters controlled by chuqui Mar 31 01:01:58 dohtem: ack! one of the dumbest things they changed? Mar 31 01:02:07 No more little pictures of what phones are supported by an app Mar 31 01:02:55 the description still doesn't respect line breaks :( Mar 31 01:03:06 it's all one big paragraph Mar 31 01:03:29 hrm Mar 31 01:03:33 automatic scaling.. Mar 31 01:03:43 aka pixel blurring? Mar 31 01:07:41 your app was submitted to the App Catalog, it will be reviewed soon. If you have chosen beta or web distribution, you will be notified when it has been published. Mar 31 01:07:59 why not notify me if I chose app cat distribution? Mar 31 01:09:29 OMGWTFBBQ!!!!! The "send to my phone" link NOW does send an SMS to Mexico phones!!! it had never worked before for me!! Mar 31 01:10:04 NuttyBunny: nice Mar 31 01:12:05 meh. This change char codes to unaccented would be a major pita. Mar 31 01:14:49 apparently my wife has put it on muted american idol to force me to play some ps3 Mar 31 01:20:00 ??? >> You are not authorised to read this forum. https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12264 :( Mar 31 01:20:35 patience Mar 31 01:20:48 I'm sure that permissions are coming up Mar 31 01:21:21 okie dokie then Mar 31 01:23:51 Any way to use my Pre 1 profile on my dev Pre 2? Or maybe create a new one w/o activation? Mar 31 01:24:33 once you convert it to a 2.0 profile theres no going back to 1.x Mar 31 01:25:09 oh, right. :( Mar 31 01:26:48 whats up? Mar 31 01:27:20 hehe, there's a little tiny bit of text on the bottom left of the forum page that says "cron" Mar 31 01:27:28 guess it's still in progress Mar 31 01:28:16 chuqui: Is there a known issue with users being unable to post in the forums? I can view, but I can't reply/create/edit/delete posts. :( Mar 31 01:28:37 dgathright: if you're in the private forums, it's because they're now read-only. Mar 31 01:28:50 dgathright: they're doing some major work there right now Mar 31 01:29:17 chuqui: Yup, that's it. No prob. Take your time then. Bigger fish to fry right now. :) Mar 31 01:29:31 almost there. this time for sure! Mar 31 01:29:34 I think. Mar 31 01:30:25 Hi, just wanted to ask if I already in early access for webOS 2 previously m I able to access webOS 3.0 early access as well? Mar 31 01:30:56 yes Mar 31 01:31:00 theres 1 program Mar 31 01:31:27 ugh on thread 46 of 357.. Mar 31 01:31:33 er page Mar 31 01:32:05 oh…thanks! :) Mar 31 01:34:41 anyone know of any >= 2.0 PDK applications or services written in anything besides C/C++/(node.js) yet? python, perl, java, ruby, and all kinds of other stuff should be possible, but I don't think I've seen any yet. Mar 31 01:38:57 "should be possible" and "supported/functional" are different things :) Mar 31 01:40:12 summatusmentis: well, how much of your own code does anyone else support, anyway? Mar 31 01:40:40 well, it's more about the right installation stuff being in place on the pre itself Mar 31 01:41:06 so, it'd either be HP or webos-internals Mar 31 01:41:19 I don't know how much of the proper interpreters and stuff are in optware Mar 31 01:41:45 afaik, Palm only supports their SDK stuff Mar 31 01:42:31 summatusmentis: PDK is a binary thing, anything that can link to the supported libraries and statically link in other stuff should be fair game Mar 31 01:42:59 that's a fair point Mar 31 01:43:14 I hadn't really thought about that Mar 31 01:43:42 I guess experimentation is called for, maybe port some stuff already written in other languages Mar 31 01:44:26 see if it can be accepted in catalog etc Mar 31 01:44:45 yeah, might as well Mar 31 01:45:00 they do allow things like phonegap made stuff Mar 31 01:45:52 <3 PhoneGap <3 Mar 31 01:50:03 http://184.72.239.143/mu/48be3df5-9f06-ce56.jpg Mar 31 01:50:04 lol Mar 31 01:51:38 sugardave: ping? Mar 31 01:52:18 PatrickC_Pre, you try it yet? Mar 31 01:52:23 rather you get the updated one? Mar 31 01:54:37 I got it, haven't installed it yet Mar 31 01:54:43 just got out of church Mar 31 01:54:48 brb Mar 31 01:55:18 the package has been dropeed Mar 31 01:55:35 3.0? Mar 31 01:56:01 the package has been dropeed Mar 31 01:56:17 lol Mar 31 01:56:19 maybe :) Mar 31 01:56:39 i dont even care anymore Mar 31 01:56:41 :P Mar 31 01:56:45 why? Mar 31 01:56:56 almost time for bed :p Mar 31 01:56:58 dangit. Mar 31 01:57:15 slow internet, decent file size = not using before bed Mar 31 01:57:25 wait. just kidding. 13 mins Mar 31 01:57:40 Wah? Mar 31 01:57:42 https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12305 Mar 31 01:57:57 Vat eez thees Mar 31 01:58:48 404 Not Found Mar 31 01:59:05 170 MB to go Mar 31 01:59:09 mime types are off Mar 31 01:59:22 sugardave: heh, same here Mar 31 01:59:27 fwos: refresh worked here Mar 31 01:59:30 looks like a new enyo build is dropped too? Mar 31 01:59:34 ty Mar 31 01:59:38 qillerneu: nda Mar 31 01:59:55 whoops Mar 31 02:00:01 I can neither confirm nor deny there is a new enyo drop Mar 31 02:00:09 can you wink? Mar 31 02:00:26 hey, Tibfib, unrelated Mar 31 02:00:32 summatusmentis: what's up? Mar 31 02:00:44 the GPL version of Koto, does it have the "free version" limitation? Mar 31 02:00:44 summatusmentis: howdy Mar 31 02:00:53 what? Mar 31 02:01:05 sugardave: I was wondering if you knew anything else about that oauth lib, can't get it to load an actual page Mar 31 02:01:13 Tibfib: you're the koto player dev right? Mar 31 02:01:15 yes Mar 31 02:01:25 Can you explain your "free version" limitation? Mar 31 02:01:48 the free version, in the app cat, limits you to 10 songs per "now playing" list Mar 31 02:01:54 summatusmentis: ah, not really. I just kind of read through what it was supposed to do and wrote my own specific functions to hit the freelancer.com endpoints, etc. Mar 31 02:02:07 ah, alright Mar 31 02:02:11 I might just email the dev Mar 31 02:02:20 summatusmentis. OH. you are wondering if the github'ed source has that limitation? Mar 31 02:02:24 yes Mar 31 02:02:30 it is the same source as the full version Mar 31 02:02:42 I see, ok Mar 31 02:02:51 it only takes a different app id to get the "free version" stuff to kick in Mar 31 02:03:07 hokay, just checking Mar 31 02:03:25 I'm intrigued, and I'm not opposed to buying, but I'd like to try a full featured app first Mar 31 02:03:31 chuqui: Do I need to uninstall the existing SDK, as usual? Mar 31 02:03:39 but I can get behind support devs and stuff like that Mar 31 02:03:51 BrianBlakely: ask on forums Mar 31 02:04:24 summatusmentis: the difference between the lite and full is quite small, pretty good to judge the experience Mar 31 02:04:37 duckface Mar 31 02:04:42 If you don't want it after that, you're probably not going to want it Mar 31 02:04:56 BrianBlakely: yes Mar 31 02:05:05 chuqui: Danke :) Mar 31 02:05:10 Tibfib: fair enough, we'll see Mar 31 02:05:21 I might just try the lite version Mar 31 02:05:24 kay, y'all. early access is open for business. you know what to do. please don't destroy the portal the first evening by hitting it all at once. Mar 31 02:05:36 chuqui: pm? Mar 31 02:05:37 thanks chuqui :) Mar 31 02:05:50 Thanks chuq Mar 31 02:06:22 yahoo! Thanks!! Mar 31 02:06:40 sugardave: dangit, I think my download screwed up. gotta re dl Mar 31 02:06:43 actually chuq, nvm, fals alarm Mar 31 02:06:44 * NuttyBunny will download with wget on his Pre Mar 31 02:07:07 t-minus lots of time Mar 31 02:08:42 Tibfib: bummer Mar 31 02:08:43 * NuttyBunny installs 3.0 in his Plus Mar 31 02:10:11 Doh! I'm getting "Error reading setup initialization file" :| Mar 31 02:10:11 I think the new forums still have the ridiculous cookie time Mar 31 02:10:27 okay, that's a wrap. time to go find food. Mar 31 02:10:34 thanks chuqui Mar 31 02:10:38 if you see smoke and flames, email pdc. I'll check in later from home. Mar 31 02:10:42 chuqui: thanks! Mar 31 02:10:45 * haeffb wants ridiculous cookie time! Mar 31 02:10:53 Thanks Chuq! Mar 31 02:10:56 sorry for the gremlin chase today. but it's out. Mar 31 02:10:57 thanks again chuq - have fun Mar 31 02:11:07 thanks chuq, cya! Mar 31 02:11:51 DMG not working Mar 31 02:11:57 Noooo Mar 31 02:12:45 Maybe it's just me Mar 31 02:13:05 nah, i had the same, downloaded with firefox Mar 31 02:13:47 Ubuntu Mar 31 02:17:39 dawm: feature request Mar 31 02:18:13 oh man, this is pretty awesome Mar 31 02:18:36 the game? Mar 31 02:18:50 wth is Samantha?! Mar 31 02:18:54 PatrickC_Pre2: no Mar 31 02:19:09 how did you get to 900??? Mar 31 02:19:41 dude, I rocked it up to 3734 Mar 31 02:19:47 wow... Mar 31 02:19:53 it is too slow to start out for me Mar 31 02:20:06 I want to be able to hit the bottom bar and have it advance.. Mar 31 02:23:59 just submitted my first webos app, waiting for review. woo hoo!! Mar 31 02:24:06 congrats! Mar 31 02:24:20 thanks for all your help folks Mar 31 02:28:42 good one InfiniteLoop Mar 31 02:29:30 if anyone's interested in a world clock with exhibition mode support pls watchout for my first app Mar 31 02:30:31 http://appartist.posterous.com/ Mar 31 02:32:18 oh. does my apps work with new design? Mar 31 02:32:32 doesn't lookl like it Mar 31 02:34:45 work with what new design tibfib? Mar 31 02:34:57 sorry, the webOS app "My Apps" Mar 31 02:34:58 InfiniteLoop: rwhitby might Mar 31 02:35:25 heheh Mar 31 02:36:32 I can say this with conviction - timezone support in javascript Date() is non-existent Mar 31 02:37:27 anyone know where the carrier apps are stored? Mar 31 02:37:48 InfiniteLoop: does your clock handle the case where it's just turned DST in australia in a GMT+9:30 timezone, and I want to know the time on the same side of the date line in a GMT+13:45 timezone? Mar 31 02:37:59 lol Mar 31 02:38:20 rwhitby: of course. why would it not? Mar 31 02:38:52 there may be some manual conversion required, but it handles that case. Mar 31 02:39:11 "tap here to launch the calculator" Mar 31 02:39:15 my app would if they would fix that bug Mar 31 02:39:18 *grumble( Mar 31 02:39:26 rwhitby: no it'll pick up your current time , although manages to show the correct time in other countries with dst Mar 31 02:39:36 haeffb: sorry, is this your app or InfiniteLoop's app? Mar 31 02:39:59 * haeffb sheepishly lowers chin. Mar 31 02:40:08 lol Mar 31 02:41:12 rwhitby: do you know where carrier api are stored? Mar 31 02:41:32 PatrickC_Pre2: 'find' is your friend Mar 31 02:41:41 s/api/app/ Mar 31 02:41:42 PatrickC_Pre1: I assume where the other stock apps are Mar 31 02:41:57 I'll keep looking... and tibfib: I didn't see them there Mar 31 02:42:34 hmm Mar 31 02:43:14 InfiniteLoop: looks like an app I am looking for if it actually does timezones and DST correctly for the southern hemisphere and :30 and :45 zones ... how much? Mar 31 02:43:44 rwhitby: its free! Mar 31 02:43:44 InfiniteLoop: where does it get the lastest DST change data from? Mar 31 02:44:02 Im using the olson database Mar 31 02:44:27 and few ugly hacks Mar 31 02:45:01 InfiniteLoop: good, that's the right source to use Mar 31 02:45:25 updated automatically, or just when you release new versions of that app? Mar 31 02:45:42 and the timezone db is built into the app Mar 31 02:45:53 * sugardave sighs. Mar 31 02:45:57 ah no just new versions Mar 31 02:46:31 I'll be releasing an update soon :) going to update the db with list of popular cities Mar 31 02:46:43 make sure Adelaide is on the list ;) Mar 31 02:46:49 hehe Mar 31 02:46:53 sure will do Mar 31 02:47:34 I hope palm ok's the name, "World Clock" - crossing my fingers Mar 31 02:56:32 good night all **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 31 02:59:58 2011