**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 30 02:59:59 2011
May 30 03:26:41 <SineOt> oh man. MAN. That little Weber is awesome
May 30 03:26:58 * SineOt grilled some deliiiicious steaks
May 30 03:36:24 <haeffb> SineOt: nice!
May 30 03:36:48 * haeffb did two slabs of ribs, a pork butt, and a batch of chicken legs in the smoker today
May 30 03:37:46 <SineOt> Far fancier! XD
May 30 03:39:27 <haeffb> what kind of steaks?
May 30 03:39:43 <SineOt> Filet minion? Not sure on spelling
May 30 03:39:50 <SineOt> But turned out really well
May 30 03:57:28 <sugardave> dkirker: hello
May 30 03:57:51 <dkirker> hi sugardave!
May 30 03:58:00 <sugardave> how's webkit doing? :D
May 30 03:58:23 <dkirker> haha
May 30 03:58:26 <dkirker> busy as hell...
May 30 03:58:29 <sugardave> I imagine
May 30 03:58:44 <sugardave> I'm coming to Sunnyvale this week so I can do new hire orientation next Monday
May 30 03:59:03 <sugardave> so we can do some lunch or something or you can show me where the cool kids hang after work
May 30 03:59:24 <dkirker> haha
May 30 03:59:25 <dkirker> sure
May 30 04:00:07 <sugardave> cool, not sure what my schedule is going to be like, but I'll ping you and we can coordinate something
May 30 04:00:15 <dkirker> alright, sure!
May 30 04:11:34 <oil_pre> fancy
May 30 04:54:54 <SineOt> Man, where's nuttybunny when you need him XD
May 30 05:00:44 <haeffb> mexico, usually
May 30 05:01:18 <SineOt> The 2.1 on Pixi installer not having a make uninstall is kind of..! scary I suppose! XD
May 30 05:07:26 <SineOt> well, at least now it's booting!
May 30 05:26:49 <Hendikins> 2.1 on Pixi... masochism redefined.
May 30 05:27:32 <SineOt> You're talking to someone who ran 10.4 on a 350mhz G3 for almost 2 years.
May 30 05:27:56 <SineOt> So really. Bring it on, bitches. >:O
May 30 05:28:00 <Hendikins> Proceed, my good sir.
May 30 05:31:15 <SineOt> Yeah, that was... Yeah!
May 30 05:31:24 <SineOt> 512mb of RAM PC133.
May 30 05:35:07 <Hendikins> Was having a chat with one of the local union reps on my way out to Liverpool today. Apparently we spend $2.5 million per year on printing safety critical documents and whatnot for train crew that could be electronically distributed.
May 30 05:35:28 <Tommy> guys, i want my pre 2's home screen to be like android
May 30 05:35:30 <Tommy> can i do that?
May 30 05:36:47 <Hendikins> We've got 1400 train guards, and presumably a similar number of drivers. 3000 HP TouchPads *per year* would only cost them $1.68 million if they paid /retail/.
May 30 05:38:11 <Hendikins> You could issue them to all our crew, and pay for 3G connectivity for them, and still have a heap of change left over compared to printing.
May 30 05:38:21 <SineOt> Tommy: no
May 30 05:38:26 <Tommy> :(
May 30 05:38:30 <haeffb> Tommy: yes, if you can somehow figure out how to install android on it.
May 30 05:38:35 <haeffb> good luck.
May 30 05:38:45 <Tommy> haeffb: it's been done, i've seen android running on one form of pre or another
May 30 05:38:52 <Tommy> anyways, i was just teasing, i don't have a pre 2.
May 30 05:38:58 <SineOt> Hendikins: safety materials are one of those weird things that will probably never, in a million years, ever move digital :(
May 30 05:40:11 <Hendikins> SineOt: I don't know. A lot of the documents in question are read once (if at all) and then discarded.
May 30 05:40:27 <Hendikins> Stuff like TOC waivers, altered train working, etc.
May 30 05:41:39 <Hendikins> There is very little that needs to be hard copy.
May 30 05:42:41 <Hendikins> If you could set up a TouchPad with a document library, lock it down and provide it with VPN access to the railway intranet, it would be an incredibly useful device for train crew.
May 30 05:48:28 <SineOt> Then yeah, that's kind of dumb. It's probably just kept paper so that you have something physical to prove that someone is supposed to have read it.
May 30 05:48:46 <SineOt> I was thinking more along the lines of safety manuals and MSDS and stuff
May 30 05:49:02 <Hendikins> Nah, more like somebody has a cousin who has a mate who runs a printing company.
May 30 05:55:25 <Hendikins> SineOt: Thing is, all this documentation is already available as PDF files.
May 30 05:55:39 <Hendikins> Which just makes it all the more irritating.
May 30 05:56:06 <SineOt> Is it stuff you have to like, sign though? Or anything?
May 30 05:57:35 <Hendikins> We don't physically sign any of this. There is a book we sign to say we received it, but there is no reason why you can't replace physical receipt with electronic receipt.
May 30 05:57:52 <SineOt> Ahaha. Then yeah, I think that's kind of dumb.
May 30 05:58:17 <Hendikins> I see this sort of thing as the perfect market for say, the touchpad.
May 30 05:58:37 <SineOt> If it's just signing something else to say that you saw it then yeah
May 30 05:58:42 <DocLee> Or the ubiquitous Ipad...
May 30 05:58:59 <SineOt> Yay. Pixi is restoring apps.
May 30 05:59:01 <SineOt> So data works.
May 30 05:59:09 <Hendikins> Plus as a bonus we could move stuff like delay and fault reporting from paper to electronic as well, and get realtime information about train running.
May 30 05:59:19 <SineOt> Need to try making a call and receiving one, and sending and receiving texts.
May 30 05:59:23 <Hendikins> DocLee: SOE? On an iPad?
May 30 05:59:28 <sugardave> Hendikins moves to ludicrous speed
May 30 05:59:43 <SineOt> But everyone complaining about 2.1 being slow on the Pixi... Needs to go use one on 1.2.9
May 30 06:00:03 <SineOt> Because I'm sorry, but fuck 1.2.9 on the Pixi.
May 30 06:00:16 <sugardave> wth are you talking about?
May 30 06:00:32 <sugardave> did we even have 1.2.9?
May 30 06:00:37 * sugardave tries to remember.
May 30 06:00:47 <SineOt> Not on the Pre.
May 30 06:00:54 <SineOt> But the Pixi shipped with 1.2.9
May 30 06:01:01 <sugardave> ah, carry on
May 30 06:01:08 <SineOt> Which, needless to say, was terrible in SO many ways
May 30 06:01:11 <DocLee> SOE?
May 30 06:01:29 <SineOt> It had stuttering issues with the modem which caused... Weird things with data
May 30 06:01:34 <SineOt> and even weirder things with apps
May 30 06:01:46 <DocLee> Good times
May 30 06:01:56 <Hendikins> DocLee: A standard operating environment. Lock the hell out of the thing.
May 30 06:02:04 <DocLee> Loves those reviews.  "The stream stops!"
May 30 06:02:11 <sugardave> heh
May 30 06:02:16 <SineOt> it wasn't unusual to have cards freeze half off the screen for like 5-10 seconds
May 30 06:02:33 <sugardave> wow
May 30 06:02:39 <DocLee> Hendikins, Your best bet for that would be a custom build of android
May 30 06:02:41 <SineOt> and for it to basically seem like it had hard locked for even longer
May 30 06:03:19 <SineOt> everyone who thinks of the Pixi as slow probably saw/played with/read a review based on the launch model and the early < 1.3.0 versions
May 30 06:03:31 <DocLee> For glitz that is.  If not a build of Win CE like the rest of the world
May 30 06:04:29 <Hendikins> DocLee: Pretty much any device that can be standardised and locked down, as well as provide 3G connectivity, could do the task.
May 30 06:04:44 <SineOt> because it was kind of sad that it was on a shipping device at that point :/
May 30 06:05:06 <SineOt> thankfully it seems that 2.2 on the Veer (the closest Pixi-alike) was done a lot better.
May 30 06:05:40 <DocLee> Why must everything be json?!
May 30 06:11:20 <sugardave> because JSON is cool?
May 30 06:11:28 <DocLee> No.  No it's not.
May 30 06:11:36 <sugardave> I kind of like it
May 30 06:11:47 <DocLee> I kind of want to stab whoever created it.
May 30 06:11:54 <sugardave> haha
May 30 06:12:20 <sugardave> what's giving you trouble in the format?
May 30 06:12:45 <DocLee> Just that everything is returned in json from services.
May 30 06:12:53 <DocLee> Which means got to parse it out
May 30 06:13:49 <sugardave> well....then you have it all in a handy object when you finish with the parse
May 30 06:14:28 <sugardave> if it wa xml, you'd still have to parse it...or are you just dealing with singletons or something?
May 30 06:14:45 <DocLee> Yep, singletons
May 30 06:15:04 <DocLee> Device ID.
May 30 06:15:11 <DocLee> GPS location.
May 30 06:15:38 <sugardave> yeah, that case would be nice if they returned not JSON with an arg you pass or something
May 30 06:17:55 <sugardave> or maybe a property of the service request:  "singleton": [propertyOfInterest]
May 30 06:18:27 <sugardave> and if it's there, it only returns that as its type, not inside a JSON
May 30 06:18:40 <DocLee> Yeah
May 30 06:23:18 <SineOt> Hmm... Wonder why this is reporting my Palm Profile as being "Dr. First Use Skipped"
May 30 06:37:02 <SineOt> Man, the Playbook ad really... Sucks.
May 30 06:37:19 <hotdp> :)
May 30 06:37:24 <hotdp> why?
May 30 06:39:09 <SineOt> How often have you wished that you could watch a movie trailer, a music video, and play a 3D game ~all at the same time~
May 30 06:40:08 <hotdp> hmm never?
May 30 06:40:19 <hotdp> lol
May 30 06:41:30 <DocLee> Playbook is a nice little device though
May 30 06:43:01 <SineOt> well, that's what the ad tells you you can do with it!
May 30 06:43:23 <DocLee> It does run Android apps as well
May 30 06:46:59 <hotdp> DocLee: thats not importent to me
May 30 06:47:24 <DocLee> What is important to you?
May 30 06:47:29 <Tommy> DocLee: IMO, it's an OS with a ripped off UI (webOS cards) and ripped off apps (android)
May 30 06:47:45 <Tommy> so really, what value does it have on its own? just about nil, there's no development scene, it leeches android's
May 30 06:47:47 <DocLee> Tommy, which would make it pretty darn good in my book
May 30 06:47:51 <hotdp> DocLee: Android apps emulated is not importent
May 30 06:48:03 <Tommy> DocLee: if you say so.
May 30 06:48:12 <Tommy> i'd rather just get, oh i don't know, an android tablet?
May 30 06:48:14 <DocLee> hotdp, It's not emulated.  BB OS is Java based.  Android apps are Java Based.
May 30 06:48:21 <SineOt> Having used it though? It kind of just... Bleh
May 30 06:48:21 <Tommy> if i want android apps that badly, i'll get Android Market, not just third party markets.
May 30 06:48:49 <Tommy> DocLee: it'll never get Android Market, so you'll be using amazon's appstore, SlideME and whatever else you can find elsewhere
May 30 06:49:00 <Tommy> so you're eliminating what, 75% of the apps in existence?
May 30 06:49:09 <SineOt> I told someone it was like, basically? It's a little 8 year old tossing on all of mommy's jewelry and thinking that she's the hottest thing ever
May 30 06:49:19 <Tommy> (amazon's appstore is actually pretty awesome, but before that there was nothing worthwhile outside market)
May 30 06:49:25 <DocLee> Tommy, not all Android tablets have access to the market
May 30 06:49:32 <DocLee> At least not without a hack
May 30 06:49:34 <Tommy> DocLee: right, and those are the kinds of tablets we don't buy.
May 30 06:49:42 <Tommy> because they're made in china and $130
May 30 06:49:43 <SineOt> Yeah, they tend to be pretty shitty tablets too
May 30 06:49:47 <DocLee> Uhh...no.
May 30 06:49:55 <DocLee> The Archos tablets for instance.
May 30 06:49:56 <Tommy> uhhh, name one good, name brand tablet without android market support
May 30 06:50:07 <Tommy> yes, have you ever touched a piece of archos hardware?
May 30 06:50:14 <Tommy> absolute trash, it's french, enough said.
May 30 06:50:22 <DocLee> I have an Archos 70 and I love the thing.
May 30 06:50:26 <Tommy> (i know they're french because i've had to call them for warranty issues so many times)
May 30 06:51:26 <Tommy> lol Archos 70, is that the mobile media player with a hard drive in it?
May 30 06:51:40 <Tommy> on a similar note, i bought a hot rod with a steam engine, it's sick once it gets going
May 30 06:51:43 <DocLee> Don't know what you're talking about, do ya?
May 30 06:51:59 <DocLee> It's ok.  We all make mistakes sometimes.
May 30 06:52:08 <Tommy> DocLee: "Up to 250GB* : the best portable HD** video playback experience anywhere"
May 30 06:52:14 <Tommy> straight from Archos' website, for the Archos 70
May 30 06:52:20 <Tommy> or did you get the 8GB flash version?
May 30 06:52:26 <DocLee> 8 GB flash version
May 30 06:52:32 <Tommy> oh okay
May 30 06:53:03 <Tommy> the only other PMP i've seen with a hard drive is the original ipod lol
May 30 06:53:09 <DocLee> It's one of the thinnest, lightest tablets on the market (if not the thinnest and lightest in a 7 inch form factor)
May 30 06:54:17 <Tommy> lol
May 30 06:54:26 <Tommy> galaxy tab > that any day
May 30 06:54:42 <DocLee> It's quite good for travel (I fly too much because RadioTime/TuneIn is in California and I'm based in Florida as well as to give seminars) and it makes a great ebook reader
May 30 06:55:04 * Tommy rolls eyes
May 30 06:55:12 <Tommy> so now let's point out the benefits of a smartphone or tablet lol
May 30 06:55:15 <Tommy> "good for travel", check.
May 30 06:55:51 <DocLee> Smaller screen, check.
May 30 06:56:02 <Tommy> smaller than what? the galaxy tab? oh, nope
May 30 06:56:14 <DocLee> Is the Galaxy Tab a smartphone?
May 30 06:56:24 <DocLee> Besides being an oversized phone...
May 30 06:56:44 <DocLee> Galaxy Tab cost...
May 30 06:56:47 <DocLee> How much again?
May 30 06:56:48 <Tommy> ...no, it's a tablet lol
May 30 06:56:52 <Tommy> not a smartphone
May 30 06:57:00 <Tommy> and it costs $300, iirc
May 30 06:57:14 <Tommy> wait, $200
May 30 06:57:18 <Tommy> http://now.sprint.com/tab/
May 30 06:57:30 <DocLee> On contract...
May 30 06:57:50 <Tommy> yep
May 30 06:58:11 <SineOt> Yeah, the Tab is kind of... Meh.
May 30 06:58:25 <Tommy> SineOt: so is the archos 70 lol
May 30 06:58:30 <Tommy> http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/ele/2409893277.html
May 30 06:58:34 <DocLee> $429 off contract
May 30 06:58:36 <Tommy> hmm, galaxy tab for $340 taking offers
May 30 06:58:56 <DocLee> Archos 70 is $248
May 30 06:59:12 <SineOt> I buy all my tech from dudes who want to know if 'u' want to buy it
May 30 06:59:21 <Tommy> DocLee: and it's made by archos lol
May 30 06:59:27 <SineOt> The Wifi Tab is about 349, but it's still meh.
May 30 06:59:27 <DocLee> Tommy, what's your point?
May 30 06:59:30 <Tommy> SineOt: i've bought tons of stuff through craigslist
May 30 06:59:35 <Tommy> DocLee: i've owned archos products.
May 30 06:59:41 <DocLee> Good for you.
May 30 06:59:45 <DocLee> Do you own this product?
May 30 06:59:46 <DocLee> No.
May 30 06:59:48 <DocLee> Do I?
May 30 06:59:49 <DocLee> Yes.
May 30 06:59:50 <Tommy> i considered it.
May 30 06:59:54 <DocLee> Good for you.
May 30 06:59:56 <Tommy> then i said, oh wait, it's archos, i'm not touching it.
May 30 07:00:07 <DocLee> I'm glad your mom gave you some money to buy something.
May 30 07:00:15 <DocLee> I hope you're happy with your purchase.
May 30 07:00:20 <DocLee> I'm equally happy with mine.
May 30 07:00:56 <SineOt> Man, now you're just both sounding like pissy 12 year olds.
May 30 07:01:24 <DocLee> I can't believe I'm having a discussion with somebody that ends every sentence with lol...
May 30 07:02:50 <SineOt> Then just stop? :I
May 30 07:03:20 <DocLee> He had to be corrected.
May 30 07:06:24 <DocLee> Also, the Toshiba Folio doesn't have the market app.  The Viewsonic doesn't have the market app (owned that one for a few days).
May 30 07:26:52 <SineOt> Hmm... Yeah, the more I play with it? 2.1 on the Pixi feels like 1.2.9 did
May 30 07:38:37 <SineOt> Back to 1.4.5 we go!
May 30 07:41:03 <SineOt> Sprint needs to hurry up and get the Pre3. P:
May 30 07:41:21 * SineOt bats at Adora and chuqui!
May 30 07:43:24 <hotdp> i don't think they can do anythin ;)
May 30 07:49:13 <rwhitby> DocLee: I don't get the ending sentences with lol thing either.
May 30 07:49:41 <rwhitby> I picture these people guffawing at their keyboard as they are conversing with me, and it makes it pretty difficult to take them seriously.
May 30 08:10:03 <SineOt> I love this ad for a 2011 "Gold Buffalo 50$ coin tribute proof" makes it sound like it's a HUGE investment, buy now! Gold is skyrocketing!
May 30 08:10:19 <SineOt> The stupid thing has 14mg of gold on it, worth about 65 cents.
May 30 12:28:51 <haeffb> ok... refurb 64GB 3G iPad on http://woot.com for $489
May 30 12:29:20 <madnificent> haeffb: hey yeah sorry for the late reply.  I don't know why people keep assuming I'm not in the EAP :)
May 30 12:29:21 <hotdp> Not bad!
May 30 12:29:37 <hotdp> But i think that the ipad 2 is a lot better
May 30 12:30:09 * madnificent couldn't care less about apple.  If they become a good citizen for more than 3 years, I'll look at them again.
May 30 12:30:29 <haeffb> the 2 is better, but it will cost more than $489
May 30 12:30:35 <hotdp> I know..
May 30 12:30:43 <hotdp> But its just much better to hold
May 30 12:32:53 <haeffb> time to go get coffee...
May 30 12:37:59 * madnificent needs to grab his own attention
May 30 13:36:20 <madnificent> ok, I think there's a trick by which you can actually run and install WebOS with a non-functioning virtualbox
May 30 13:36:45 <madnificent> IIRC I installed through a non-running VirtualBox 3.2
May 30 13:37:13 <madnificent> That did install the SDK though.  Installing VirtualBox 4.0 after that allows you to run the new images
May 30 13:37:19 <madnificent> at least, I think that's what might've happened
May 30 13:38:20 <madnificent> I assume this because I didn't have WebOS 2.x installed before upgrading and I can boot into WebOS 2.x now.  I have never had a functioning VirtualBox 3.x after the upgrade though.  So that's the only thing I can think of
May 30 13:38:45 <madnificent> I have tried booting the 2.x emulator with VirtualBox 3.2, if that changes anything
May 30 14:11:19 <sugardave> mornin'
May 30 14:11:28 <sugardave> haeffb: I never got your second send
May 30 14:11:28 <hotdp> mornings sugardave
May 30 14:11:52 <sugardave> HOTDP
May 30 14:14:03 <haeffb> I'lll send it again.
May 30 14:14:13 <sugardave> cool
May 30 14:14:14 <haeffb> hotdp!!!! \o/
May 30 14:14:37 * hotdp wonders if haeffb has that as a macro
May 30 14:14:57 <haeffb> hell no, I'm all manual
May 30 14:15:06 <hotdp> cool :)
May 30 14:16:02 <madnificent> non-lisp macro?
May 30 14:25:34 <sugardave> precentral rumor for 6/12 tablet release?  cool!
May 30 14:25:53 <hotdp> yay
May 30 14:28:06 <madnificent> not cool!
May 30 14:28:15 * madnificent wanted more dev time
May 30 14:28:31 <madnificent> no, it's nice to have it out there.  I hope it'll be accepted in the market.
May 30 14:29:06 * hotdp waits to dev until he has a device
May 30 14:34:16 * haeffb still seriously considering the ipad for $494
May 30 14:34:37 <hotdp> haeffb what if it breaks?
May 30 14:34:46 <hotdp> is there any help there?
May 30 14:34:55 <haeffb> it's an Apple refurb, should still have warranty
May 30 14:35:02 <hotdp> i see
May 30 14:35:34 <haeffb> or not.
May 30 14:35:40 <haeffb> it has a 90 day Woot warranty
May 30 14:35:49 <hotdp> hmm
May 30 14:35:52 <hotdp> thats not much
May 30 14:36:09 <haeffb> yeah. and you can buy the 16GB non3G for $399
May 30 14:36:18 <haeffb> so, nevermind
May 30 14:36:32 <sugardave> hmm, the iPad original still goes for $500?  Why are people complaining about the potential $599 for a TouchPad?
May 30 14:37:09 <hotdp> hmm
May 30 14:37:17 <hotdp> because it does not have a advantage
May 30 14:37:25 <hotdp> its the same price
May 30 14:37:30 <hotdp> so its harder to pick
May 30 14:38:05 <sugardave> I guess so
May 30 14:39:21 <hotdp> bbl
May 30 14:39:34 <haeffb> the iPad original is $399
May 30 14:39:45 <haeffb> for the 16GB wifi model
May 30 14:40:05 <sugardave> we have more GBs
May 30 14:40:15 <haeffb> they have more apps
May 30 14:40:39 <hotdp> And larger user base
May 30 14:41:08 <haeffb> the TouchPad better have some feature that blows the iPad outta the water or it's DOA at the same price point
May 30 14:42:50 <hotdp> but haeffb: the touchpad has the fastest cpu
May 30 14:43:06 <sugardave> we have touch to share
May 30 14:43:18 <hotdp> The thing that will make it or breake it for me is if it has video out or not. (ipad has it)
May 30 14:43:18 <haeffb> touch what?
May 30 14:43:34 <haeffb> I don't have a phone to touch to it
May 30 14:43:37 <hotdp> touchpad
May 30 14:43:46 <sugardave> you didn't get a veer? :D
May 30 14:43:57 <haeffb> nope
May 30 14:44:07 <sugardave> whose fault is that?
May 30 14:45:01 <haeffb> You want a list?
May 30 14:45:34 <haeffb> I'll start with whoever made the decision to use a magnetic dongle
May 30 14:45:40 <sugardave> two: one ordered alphabetically and one by priority
May 30 14:45:48 <haeffb> and work my way down from there
May 30 14:53:03 <madnificent> sugardave: sales's fault :)
May 30 14:58:56 <haeffb> oh, wait...  I blame oil
May 30 15:04:06 <sugardave> there you go
May 30 15:04:18 <sugardave> alright, I'm heading for the airport, see you guys later tonight
May 30 16:10:15 <sugardave> apparently I suffer from mild dyslexia...I thought the plane leaves at 12:05, turns out it's 12:50
May 30 16:32:42 <solix> better that way than the other, u'd missed ur flight. :/
May 30 16:36:16 <sugardave> no doubt :)
May 30 17:04:21 <IGNTNUNLMTD> 'Afternoon, people.
May 30 17:04:34 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I'm going to be in Greece when the TouchPad launches. Curses.
May 30 18:06:18 <Boopop> Anyone else tried smartrunner?
May 30 18:06:21 <Boopop> Brilliant app
May 30 18:06:23 <Boopop> http://www.smartrunner.com/pages/Routes/Track_Cycling_f6f50cef-f09b-4bd9-a3f1-40f948db4946.aspx
May 30 18:07:16 <hotdp> Boopop: no
May 30 18:07:28 <Boopop> I rather like it =)
May 30 18:07:44 <avarus> ok, then like it
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 30 19:00:14 2011
May 30 19:39:14 <BigWookie> Hey I got a problem, my contacts won't sync right with google and the messages log says endless : palm-webos user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS}: com.palm.app.contacts: Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected identifier, :1
May 30 19:41:07 <avarus> lol :P
May 30 19:42:03 <BigWookie> I think it is reffering to newContactKind = "com.palm.contact.palmprofile:1"; in the app assistant
May 30 19:42:54 <BigWookie> just a guess
May 30 19:43:17 <BigWookie> hmm but after thinking about it, maybe not
May 30 19:48:24 <madnificent> if I write a json string with toJSON, how should I read it back in?
May 30 19:48:30 <madnificent> that is Object.toJSON
May 30 19:51:59 <madnificent> actually, I'd prefer to read the first object and skip whatever else is in there... that'd be perfect
May 30 19:58:20 <madnificent> JSON.parse doesn't seem to work, it errors out on the string created by Object.toJSON, which seems odd to me
May 30 20:02:08 <madnificent> the issue seems to be something with newlines
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 30 20:12:14 2011
May 30 20:12:19 <madnificent> will look at it later
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 31 07:34:15 2011
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 31 07:48:14 2011
May 31 08:44:39 <swisstomcat> morning
May 31 09:32:42 <Judas-C> anyone of knowledge around
May 31 09:35:08 <Judas-C> was wondering how the /media/cryptofs could of gotten empty on it's own
May 31 09:52:08 <Judas-C> hopefully this time I can stay on
May 31 09:54:29 <Judas-C> what is supposed to be in the /media/cryptofs directory
May 31 09:55:21 <swisstomcat> depending if your device is connected in usb-mode or not, different things
May 31 09:56:03 <Judas-C> so it only shows up in dev mode
May 31 09:56:25 <swisstomcat> it's encrypted while in usb-mode
May 31 09:56:54 <Judas-C> well I'm not in usbmode
May 31 09:57:39 <swisstomcat> how do you connect to your phone then?
May 31 09:58:00 <Judas-C> I dont
May 31 09:58:48 <swisstomcat> how are you able to "see" /media/cryptofs
May 31 09:59:20 <Judas-C> terminal and internalz
May 31 10:01:29 <Judas-C> you don't use them
May 31 10:06:05 <Judas-C> this is why I asked
May 31 10:06:06 <Judas-C> Send file "input.config" and "config" to;
May 31 10:18:55 <madnificent> hey, how verified my app was ok at HP|Palm?
May 31 10:20:42 <hotdp> madnificent ?
May 31 10:21:09 <madnificent> hotdp: well, congrats, that was going to be my point
May 31 10:21:25 <madnificent> hotdp: I worked on it 'till late yesterday night and it has already been approved
May 31 10:21:35 <madnificent> seriously, that's really really nice
May 31 10:21:53 <hotdp> ahh
May 31 10:21:59 <hotdp> yer
May 31 10:22:04 <madnificent> especially as I was ready a day later than I wanted (when I tell users I'll submit on monday, I want to submit on sunday/evening CET)
May 31 10:23:04 <madnificent> when I woke this morning and checked the app catalog I actually thought I was reading something wrong, but 1.2.0 is what I need, I think
May 31 10:25:26 <hotdp> what app ?
May 31 10:25:59 <madnificent> hotdp: tasks@hand
May 31 10:26:20 <madnificent> com.knowified.tasks if you're searching for it in some unified interface somewhere :)
May 31 10:26:35 <hotdp> are you rich on it : P
May 31 10:27:10 <madnificent> no, I have less than 150 payed downloads
May 31 10:28:15 <Judas-C> stilll nothing in /media/cryptofs. is there anyplace else third party apps are stored on the pre
May 31 10:28:57 <hotdp> Judas-C: what are you talking about?
May 31 10:30:02 <Judas-C> well there is a file I need to copy to a certain dir but it isn't there
May 31 10:30:16 <hotdp> why do you need it?
May 31 10:30:22 <hotdp> what are you trying to do ?
May 31 10:30:39 <Judas-C> config files for mplayer
May 31 10:31:07 * hotdp don't understand what you want.
May 31 10:31:39 <Judas-C> the location of the third party apps directory
May 31 10:32:11 <hotdp> the location where apps are install on webos?
May 31 10:32:17 <hotdp> *installed
May 31 10:32:24 <Judas-C> yeah
May 31 10:32:33 <hotdp> omg
May 31 10:32:59 <hotdp> install internalz
May 31 10:33:03 <hotdp> and have a look
May 31 10:33:10 <Judas-C> I thought it was in /media/cryptofs
May 31 10:33:19 <Judas-C> have it installled and have been looking
May 31 10:33:26 <hotdp> and`?
May 31 10:33:29 <hotdp> it should be easy
May 31 10:33:31 * madnificent always looses his apps and has to use find to find anything :)
May 31 10:33:46 <madnificent> oh right, the terminal refuses to work on my dev phone (webos 2.x)
May 31 10:33:49 <Judas-C> can't find the third part
May 31 10:33:55 <madnificent> both terminal apps fail
May 31 10:35:06 <Judas-C> the main apps dir is /usr/palm/applications
May 31 10:35:37 <hotdp> and you have filemrg?
May 31 10:35:44 <Judas-C> yes
May 31 10:37:45 <hotdp> but, what did you want to do with the dir?
May 31 10:39:04 <Judas-C> copy some input.config files into the mplayer dir to control mplayer
May 31 10:39:35 <hotdp> so manual copy te files?
May 31 10:41:53 <Judas-C> yeah I need the dir I wonder if I have to make it. I remember it was there before because you copied the mplayer binary from chompers to jasons wrapper
May 31 10:43:05 <Judas-C> Send file "input.config" and "config" to;
May 31 10:44:43 <Judas_C> guess I have to make the dir myself
May 31 10:46:41 <Judas_C> look in /media/cryptofs and see if there is an apps dir in there
May 31 10:49:14 <Judas_C> I know I had an apps dir there before and copied too and from it before
May 31 11:19:46 <Judas-C> figured it outt kinda
May 31 11:20:04 <Judas-C> the dir is hidden but not the normal way
May 31 11:21:05 <Judas-C> it wasn't hidden like that before I wonder if it had to do with the 1.4.5.1 update
May 31 11:22:03 <Judas-C> internalz pro won't see it and neither does terminal
May 31 11:22:36 <Judas-C> even with master on
May 31 14:40:14 <madnificent> I used to be able to see how many times my app had been downloaded in the catalog, however with WebOS 2.x's app catalog I can't see that anymore.  Is there a link allowing me to see this?
May 31 14:43:27 <cwayne> developer.palm.com
May 31 14:45:47 <madnificent> cwayne: those are the updates per 24 hours :)
May 31 14:45:55 <madnificent> I don't have that much patience atm
May 31 14:46:06 <cwayne> madnificent: only if its a paid app :) free ones are updated hourly
May 31 14:46:12 <cwayne> try cyrket
May 31 14:48:12 <madnificent> cwayne: doesn't contain my app
May 31 14:48:53 <madnificent> do I need to do something for it?
May 31 14:54:30 <Loudergood> madnificent: I finally got time to install tasks@hand, it looks like KDE for tasks (so many options) and I love KDE
May 31 14:55:05 <sugardave> To Palm!  To Palm!
May 31 14:56:38 * madnificent suddenly feels bad for not using KDE
May 31 14:56:44 <cwayne> kde sucks
May 31 14:57:06 * madnificent als finds it sad that he can't cramp the options in a sweeter view.  But hey, it seems to work just fine in practice
May 31 14:57:27 <cwayne> lol
May 31 14:57:39 <madnificent> cwayne: kde has changed a lot in the last 2 years, I don't dare to say anything about their latest release.  In the same way I prefer to keep an open mind about gnome3 and unity
May 31 14:57:41 <cwayne> is there a simple way to make just a blank list divider?
May 31 14:57:45 <madnificent> and in return...
May 31 14:57:47 <madnificent> i get...
May 31 14:57:51 <madnificent> absolutely
May 31 14:57:54 <madnificent>  n o
May 31 14:58:02 <madnificent> respect for tiling window managers back
May 31 14:58:03 <cwayne> madnificent: to be fair, i haven't used kde recently :)
May 31 14:58:56 <madnificent> Loudergood: let me know how it works in practice :)  I'm still learning how to get the most out of this app, but it seems to keep my productivity up
May 31 14:59:43 <madnificent> Loudergood: there are still features waiting to be implemented (version 1.3 has been drafted).   Be sure to read Getting Things Done by David Allen :)
May 31 15:16:15 <NuttyBunny_Pre2> I hate being stuck in a building with fast web access but no facebook or irc on wifi :@
May 31 15:16:58 <dawm> lol
May 31 15:18:31 <Loudergood> blocked? that's lame
May 31 15:29:18 <NuttyBunny_Pre2> Blocked most ports, including 7777 and 7070 :@
May 31 15:32:19 <maik> NuttyBunny_Pre2: you don't have a server offsite you can tunnel traffic through?
May 31 15:34:26 <NuttyBunny_Pre2> nah, I could, but it's not really that urgent :)
May 31 16:29:44 <NuttyBunny_Pre2> Nice, wirc reconnected.... am I online?
May 31 16:30:14 <stbuehler> NuttyBunny_Pre2: who knows^^
May 31 16:30:39 <NuttyBunny_Pre2> hehehe.. thanks :D
May 31 16:38:44 <madnificent> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/the-problem-with-ipad-apps-usability_n_868006.html  yes, we should've kept the gesture area
May 31 16:39:55 <madnificent> perhaps area isn't the correct term here.  Yet gestures is still a key term.
May 31 16:50:48 <madnificent> I can't find any of my (2) apps on Cyrket, any possible reason for that?
May 31 16:51:46 <solix> I just updated frm 1.4.5 to 1.4.5.1 and so far (since 2 weeks ago), app.catalog won't update nething, just hangs like it's starting. but nada.. any info anyone? tia.
May 31 17:14:57 <matbee> Have you guys seen this? C# -> Javascript compiler: https://github.com/kevingadd/JSIL
May 31 17:15:02 <matbee> would be awesome to write webos apps in C#
May 31 17:15:57 <hotdp> nah
May 31 17:16:02 <hotdp> js is fine
May 31 17:16:18 <matbee> Doesn't change the fact that it would be fantastic to write webos apps in C#.
May 31 17:16:36 <hotdp> I am a C# coder my self
May 31 17:16:39 <hotdp> I would not use it
May 31 17:16:47 <matbee> Well you're alone in that one ;)
May 31 17:16:54 <hotdp> Lol
May 31 17:16:58 <hotdp> i don't think so
May 31 17:17:08 <hotdp> tell me why i should convert c# to js?
May 31 17:17:14 <hotdp> why not use js from the start?
May 31 17:17:15 <matbee> visual studio?
May 31 17:17:19 <matbee> done and done.
May 31 17:17:22 <hotdp> LOL
May 31 17:17:24 <hotdp> omg
May 31 17:17:26 <hotdp> i stop now
May 31 17:17:31 <hotdp> thanks
May 31 17:17:36 <hotdp> you made my day :D
May 31 17:17:40 <matbee> lol
May 31 17:17:44 <matbee> youre a console boy, I can tell
May 31 17:17:49 <hotdp> no i am not
May 31 17:17:57 <hotdp> i used VS for JS in the start
May 31 17:18:00 <hotdp> 2010 is ok
May 31 17:18:08 <hotdp> but use Webstorms now
May 31 17:18:15 <matbee> no, it's VS for C#.
May 31 17:18:30 <hotdp> you can use VS for JS no problem dude?
May 31 17:18:37 <hotdp> it has intellisense and everything
May 31 17:18:38 <Loudergood> clearly the solution is writing your C# in vi
May 31 17:18:41 <matbee> I'm talking about C#.
May 31 17:18:52 <matbee> are you always this difficult?
May 31 17:19:03 <hotdp> i am asking what the reason is to use a converter
May 31 17:19:07 <hotdp> and you sauid VS?
May 31 17:19:12 <matbee> Visual Studio, C#.
May 31 17:19:14 <matbee> nuff said.
May 31 17:19:24 <hotdp> So is it the language or the IDE?
May 31 17:19:27 <matbee> both
May 31 17:19:45 <matbee> You should check it out
May 31 17:19:49 <hotdp> because?
May 31 17:19:56 <matbee> because that's what tinkerers do?
May 31 17:19:58 <hotdp> You know it and don't wonna learn js?
May 31 17:20:00 <matbee> besides, mojo sucks
May 31 17:20:55 <matbee> Imagine a world where you can write webos apps in an IDE.
May 31 17:21:02 <matbee> that's not a half-assed implementation of eclipse
May 31 17:22:10 <matbee> You must be one of those anti-coffee script kids too
May 31 17:22:17 <hotdp> Do you own a WebOS device?
May 31 17:22:20 <matbee> multiple
May 31 17:23:03 <hotdp> Have many years as programmer?
May 31 17:23:06 <matbee> best thing since sliced bread
May 31 17:23:12 <matbee> 5 years?
May 31 17:23:23 <hotdp> what languages?
May 31 17:23:34 * hotdp is trying to understand
May 31 17:23:50 <matbee> java/C#/PHP/C++
May 31 17:23:59 <NuttyBunny_Pre2> Ping!!
May 31 17:24:00 <matbee> C#/.NET
May 31 17:24:21 <matbee> Ping..
May 31 17:25:02 <hotdp> Did you like php?
May 31 17:25:09 <matbee> Not especially
May 31 17:25:12 <matbee> but it works
May 31 17:26:06 <hotdp> But you dont like js?
May 31 17:26:12 <matbee> I do..
May 31 17:26:57 <hotdp> so you wonna code in C# ?
May 31 17:27:00 <matbee> Yep.
May 31 17:27:10 <matbee> It would be fantastic.
May 31 17:28:07 <matbee> Imagine NodeJS servers written in C#... pretty.
May 31 17:30:00 <matbee> hard as hell to debug, but whatev
May 31 17:56:47 * madnificent runs away screaming
May 31 18:13:31 <Loudergood> yeah I can't imagine what weird errors you'd get doing something like that
May 31 18:14:11 <madnificent> if C# -> JS was smart, then I'd definitely be using parenscript... but I'm not, so it's most likely a bad idea.
May 31 18:17:49 <matbee> So, it's not possible to stream audio from the microphone on webos, is it?
May 31 18:18:04 <matbee> Or is it possible with C++
May 31 18:18:13 <madnificent> didn't 2.x allow it?
May 31 18:18:30 <matbee> It can only get chunks of audio
May 31 18:18:36 <matbee> start-stop-give audio to app
May 31 18:19:00 <matbee> I don't believe it polls the app with the received data
May 31 19:12:57 <LoneStar99> howdy how would I do the follwing -->  preg_replace <a href="http://abc.com">hello</a> to <span id="http://abc.com">hello</span>
May 31 19:13:37 <LoneStar99> know how to replace the tags just but not the content...
May 31 19:15:21 <swisstomcat> hey lonestar
May 31 19:16:29 <LoneStar99> howdy swisstomcat
May 31 19:17:32 <oil> preg_replace, thats php, no js xD
May 31 19:17:55 <LoneStar99> oh did I paste the preg_replace stuff here?
May 31 19:18:03 <oil> lol
May 31 19:18:18 <LoneStar99> if is for a webos app though...
May 31 19:18:32 <LoneStar99> what did I write previously...
May 31 19:20:57 <LoneStar99> sorry
May 31 19:21:15 <LoneStar99> will not do it again =(
May 31 19:22:19 * oil is just joking with ya
May 31 19:22:53 <oil> i suggest string.replace() if you want to do it with js
May 31 19:23:16 <LoneStar99> oil i know
May 31 19:23:39 <LoneStar99> it will run on the cloud and send back to mobile via json
May 31 19:23:59 <oil> ah
May 31 19:30:12 <oil> so did you still need help with preg_replace?
May 31 19:31:51 <LoneStar99> oil yeah
May 31 19:32:16 <LoneStar99> you i know how to change the tags but not content inside the tags
May 31 19:32:46 <LoneStar99> eg. preg_replace the following --> '<a href="http://abc.com">music</a>' 2 '<span id="http://abc.com">music</span>'
May 31 19:33:57 <oil> $test = preg_replace('/<a href="([^"]*)">([^<]*)<\/a>/', '<span id="$1">$2<\/span>', '<a href="address">asdf</a>');
May 31 19:34:15 <LoneStar99> damn that was fast!
May 31 19:34:21 <LoneStar99> ok let try that out
May 31 19:34:27 <oil> wait, no \/ on the closing span, just /
May 31 19:34:34 <LoneStar99> k
May 31 19:36:40 <oil> though, that will only work if its exactly <a href="url">name</a>
May 31 19:36:45 <oil> itl break if there is anything else in the tags
May 31 19:37:57 <Judas-C> hello
May 31 19:38:03 <oil> hello
May 31 19:38:29 <Judas-C> what's new oil
May 31 19:38:35 <oil> nothing
May 31 19:38:45 <LoneStar99> oil: you mean if it is like <a href="url" title="boo">name</a> it will break?
May 31 19:38:50 <oil> yeah
May 31 19:38:57 <oil> that regex isnt that fancy :)
May 31 19:39:15 <Judas-C> I'm having an issue I can't figure out
May 31 19:39:22 <LoneStar99> oil: ok it will probably due for the 1 release of app
May 31 19:39:24 <LoneStar99> =)
May 31 19:40:06 <Judas-C> the apps dir in /media/cryptofs is now a hidden dir but still names apps
May 31 19:41:09 <Judas-C> it wasn't hidden before
May 31 19:42:49 <Judas-C> does anyone have vzw 1.4.5.1 installed
May 31 19:43:21 <matbee> Are the contacts JSON different from 2.x and 1.4.x?
May 31 19:43:33 <matbee> if so, i want to slap someone
May 31 19:43:44 <oil> matbee: lots of that stuff changed in 2.x, but i dont know exactly
May 31 19:44:05 <oil> they moved it from a huge sqlite database to their new "db8"
May 31 19:44:28 <matbee> yeah, but, the json should be relatively the same--- i would think
May 31 19:45:09 <matbee> unless there's a way to detect webos 2.x/1.4.x?
May 31 19:45:14 <Judas-C> guess no one knows
May 31 19:45:42 <matbee> welcome Adora
May 31 19:45:47 <matbee> ;D
May 31 19:47:09 <Judas-C> so is the apps dir now a hidden dir
May 31 19:48:43 <oil> hidden from where? can you not launch apps or something?
May 31 19:49:00 <LoneStar99> oil thanks for your help it work well for know!
May 31 19:49:29 <oil> np
May 31 19:50:55 <LoneStar99> would be entense to regex so if it has class or title ?
May 31 19:52:30 <oil> no
May 31 19:55:18 <LoneStar99> ok
May 31 19:56:52 <Judas-C> hi again
May 31 19:57:20 <Judas-C> does anyone know how to unhide the apps dir
May 31 19:59:42 <oil> LoneStar99: '/<a([^href]*)href="([^"]*)"([^>]*)>([^<]*)<\/a>/i'
May 31 19:59:46 <oil> dirty, but will work
May 31 20:00:06 <oil> though you'll have a problem if the a tag already has an id attribute
May 31 20:03:47 <Judas-C> sorry keep getting disconnected
May 31 20:04:08 <oil> so does it not work,or do you just want to hide it because you dont think it was hidden before?
May 31 20:04:35 <Judas-C> I want it unhidden
May 31 20:04:46 <oil> but for no other reason then seeing it hidden annoys you?
May 31 20:08:55 <LoneStar99> oil ok thanks will try it right now
May 31 20:09:50 <LoneStar99> oil looks very crytic
May 31 20:10:11 <LoneStar99> creepy or cryptic ...
May 31 20:10:44 <oil> if a regular expression isn't complicated its not doing its job :)
May 31 20:11:23 <LoneStar99> yeah true that
May 31 20:11:39 <LoneStar99> i know very very little regex syntax
May 31 20:12:00 <oil> but that one is pretty simple
May 31 20:12:10 <hotdp> use regexbuddy
May 31 20:12:11 <oil> lots of "everything thats not this"
May 31 20:12:15 <hotdp> if its not there your fucked!
May 31 20:13:24 <LoneStar99> hotdp: lol
May 31 20:13:39 * oil usually rolls his own
May 31 20:13:51 <Judas-C> sorry didn't see anything anyone wrote in the past 3mins
May 31 20:14:12 <oil> only if wirc worked better, eh?
May 31 20:14:20 <Loudergood> if only...
May 31 20:14:47 <Judas-C> it's not a prob with wirc. it's a prob with the connection
May 31 20:14:51 <hotdp> do you guys think that there will be a event as the dev days in nyc again=
May 31 20:14:53 <oil> haha
May 31 20:15:11 <Loudergood> that was a nice event
May 31 20:15:16 <oil> it was fun
May 31 20:15:28 <matbee> I wish they'd be in toronto
May 31 20:15:31 <matbee> :'(
May 31 20:15:43 <Loudergood> I'd have to plan it better though...I was way too tired
May 31 20:16:19 <oil> too much partying not enough sleeping?
May 31 20:16:32 * oil had no trouble
May 31 20:17:04 <Loudergood> I got up way too early to drive down to CT to take the train in
May 31 20:17:25 <Loudergood> too cheap to pay for two nights in NY
May 31 20:17:33 <oil> ah
May 31 20:18:02 <hotdp> what about a answer for my Q, what you think ? :d
May 31 20:18:14 <oil> yeah, i had a room a few blocks away
May 31 20:18:22 <Loudergood> it's only 350 miles from my door to the station in bridgeport ;)
May 31 20:18:28 <oil> hotdp: hopefully?
May 31 20:18:53 <matbee> If you want regex, try #perl :P
May 31 20:21:11 <Judas-C>  anyways I am just saying before /media/cryptofs/apps wasn't hidden before but now it is hidden in internalz pro.
May 31 20:21:29 <oil> internalz pro questions should be directed to the thread in precentral
May 31 20:21:35 <oil> jason doesn't hang out in #webos
May 31 20:22:12 <matbee> #webos-internals
May 31 20:22:29 <oil> jason doesn't go to #webos-internals either
May 31 20:22:35 <matbee> really?
May 31 20:22:37 <oil> since he's not a part of webosinternals
May 31 20:22:50 <oil> maybe he shows up if he has a question
May 31 20:22:55 <oil> but he is not a regular on irc
May 31 20:22:58 <matbee> oh
May 31 20:23:01 <matbee> maybe try twitter
May 31 20:23:03 <matbee> i know he's on there
May 31 20:28:01 <LoneStar99> oil it works perfectly thanks!
May 31 20:36:29 <bmidgley> is phonegap working with sdk3?
May 31 21:11:11 <Popple3> hey guys
May 31 21:11:47 <Popple3> anyone have any experience with uploading with download manager
May 31 21:11:50 <Popple3> ?
May 31 21:14:11 <Popple3> in particular I want to get rid of the content-type on post data
May 31 21:14:43 <Popple3> I don't know if it's how to fix things or not, I'm just trying to match a (working) curl request
May 31 21:15:21 <Judas-C> ok lets try his again lol
May 31 21:15:54 <Judas-C> is there any way to unhide a directory that isn't hidden the normal .hidden way
May 31 21:17:22 <Judas-C> or am I just stuck with it being hidden
May 31 21:18:23 <oil> internalz support goes in the precentral forums
May 31 21:25:47 <Popple3> hmmm... Any ideas why "customHttpHeaders": [ "Expect: " ] isn't working? When I look at the request in Wireshark, it still has Expect: 100-continue
May 31 21:26:34 <Popple3> it's the only difference I can find bar the lack of content-types on the form-data, but that really shouldn't matter
May 31 22:20:08 <rwhitby> matbee: contacts schema is completely different in 2.x
May 31 22:31:39 * Popple3 is about to go crazy
May 31 22:44:18 <cxreg> the world's view of the veer seems to be: "meh"
May 31 23:17:26 <Popple3> pinpointed my problem, now the question is, is there anyway to completely get rid of the content type in the post data of an upload through download manager? It's screwing up my upload :/
May 31 23:18:16 <Loudergood> what's putting it there?
May 31 23:20:04 <Popple3> it defaults to text/plain
May 31 23:20:21 <Loudergood> I can see how that might cause problems
May 31 23:21:05 <Popple3> yeah. Tried a few different content types just to see, but no luck :(
May 31 23:21:54 <Popple3> using a blank string doesn't work either
May 31 23:22:33 <Popple3> nor does null
May 31 23:24:07 <Popple3> nor false
May 31 23:36:05 <Judas-C> ok I did figure out that every directory on /media/cryptofs is hidden
May 31 23:37:01 <Judas-C> so  now need to figure out how to unhide t
May 31 23:37:02 <Judas-C> it
May 31 23:38:04 <Judas-C> does anyone have a clue
May 31 23:38:41 <Judas-C> welcome back halfhalo
May 31 23:41:10 <madnificent> :( only 10 users updated the latest release so far :(
May 31 23:41:35 <madnificent> Judas-C: I think you can see every directory if you ssh to your pre
May 31 23:41:42 <sugardave> madnificent: do you have update checking in the last version to let users know of the new one?
May 31 23:41:44 <rwhitby> Judas-C: did you determine whether your cryptofs is mounted or not?
May 31 23:41:52 <Judas-C> I don't have a pc
May 31 23:42:06 <sugardave> is Judas-C PatrickC?
May 31 23:42:16 <Judas-C> no
May 31 23:42:21 <sugardave> okay :)
May 31 23:42:42 <Judas-C> have chatted with him before
May 31 23:42:53 <rwhitby> Judas-C: trying to debug this with on-device tools will be quite difficult
May 31 23:43:49 <madnificent> sugardave: no
May 31 23:44:03 <madnificent> sugardave: what should I do for that?
May 31 23:44:15 <Judas-C> rod my issue was before I was able to see directories in /media/cryptofs/ with internalz and terminal but now the directories are hidden.
May 31 23:44:35 <sugardave> well, that's probably why you are seeing low adoption rates for the new version...users will have to manually update it from looking at the available updates app
May 31 23:44:39 <Judas-C> mainly the apps dir
May 31 23:44:59 <sugardave> madnificent: Metrix probably has a canned solution for it
May 31 23:45:25 <sugardave> other way would be to have Ajax check a file you can keep out on the web somewhere and compare version numbers
May 31 23:45:46 <madnificent> in the previous release almost all users updated within 24 hours. 90% within 48, I think
May 31 23:45:47 <sugardave> then pop up a dialog with "HEY UPDATE" and send them to the catalog
May 31 23:46:02 <Judas-C> I wonder if they hid the directories when I updated to webos 1.4.5.1
May 31 23:47:54 <Judas-C> this is erratating
May 31 23:49:03 <Judas-C> I guess I will never get it fixed
May 31 23:49:03 <madnificent> Judas-C: I remember having them hidden but have no idea how they got unhidden
May 31 23:49:36 <Judas-C> I turned off and on dev mode
May 31 23:50:30 <Judas-C> I uninstalled and reinstalled internalz thinking the master mode wasn't working
May 31 23:51:20 <oil> I've told you like 4 times now that if you want internalz support your best bet is the thread on precentral
May 31 23:51:38 <madnificent> Judas-C: in that case (incf oil)
May 31 23:51:39 <sugardave> oil: tell him again!
May 31 23:51:43 <Judas-C> and it's not an internalz issue
May 31 23:51:52 <madnificent> mooooooore oil
May 31 23:52:09 <Judas-C> it's not viewing in terminal but it's there
May 31 23:52:31 <Judas-C> do an ls and dir isn't there but I can cd into it
May 31 23:53:10 <halfhalo> its one of those super s3kr3t folders
May 31 23:54:27 <ryanwatkins> anyone available that I could ask an enyo API question?
May 31 23:55:28 <Judas-C> I'm stumped I just know it's happening in both apps and if I installed Terminus it wouldn't show in there either
May 31 23:55:41 <oil> like the words "Non Disclosure Agreement" mean nothing
May 31 23:56:07 <ryanwatkins> like if i chatted with a palm employee here thats not in violation.
May 31 23:56:47 <ryanwatkins> like, say i have before.
May 31 23:57:02 <Judas-C> I don't use terminus because it always crashes luna
May 31 23:58:14 <Judas-C> no there are palm employees here all the time just they won't talk about things that are under NDA
May 31 23:59:06 <Judas-C> isn't Adora a palm employee
May 31 23:59:13 <ryanwatkins> i'm sure not publically, but likely privately, eh?
May 31 23:59:29 <oil> but shes no programmer, isn't going to be able to answer the questions he has
Jun 01 00:00:41 <Judas-C> just saying
Jun 01 00:01:05 * ryanwatkins is amazed that everyone *other* than HP is the NDA enforcement nazi's.
Jun 01 00:01:29 <halfhalo> A) Adora's crazy and B) why the hell are you sending me a pm with something that should be in chat.
Jun 01 00:01:29 <oil> lol
Jun 01 00:02:06 <oil> following the NDA == nazi now
Jun 01 00:02:32 <oil> haha
Jun 01 00:02:33 <Judas-C> sorry I tried in chat but everyone blows me off guess I pissed people off
Jun 01 00:02:36 <dohtem> or maybe we dont want thousand dollar lawsuits
Jun 01 00:02:43 <oil> not just that
Jun 01 00:02:44 <ryanwatkins> asking in a room filled with Palm employees if "is anyone available for a question about your API" is suddenly "ooh oo . verboten!"
Jun 01 00:03:00 <oil> every time there is NDA leaks there is the chance we wont have EA anymore
Jun 01 00:03:12 <oil> filled with palm employees?
Jun 01 00:03:45 * oil has never seen more then a handfull of palm employees
Jun 01 00:03:50 <oil> never at the same time
Jun 01 00:03:57 <ryanwatkins> like if you were sitting in a cafe with 100 people, several of them palm employees and said "hey can i ask one of you a question about the enyo api" youd jump up and down about the NDA?
Jun 01 00:04:18 <oil> probably not
Jun 01 00:04:25 <oil> but since when is the internet like a cafe?
Jun 01 00:04:38 <Judas-C> lol
Jun 01 00:04:48 <bartholemew> honestly I'd be surprised if most companies in silicon valley didn't have informants at their competition
Jun 01 00:04:50 <ryanwatkins> because you can puff out your chest here about the NDA and I guess feel less stupid about it.
Jun 01 00:05:36 <bartholemew> without needing to depend on leakers in EA programs
Jun 01 00:05:37 <oil> and you can just disregard a non disclosure agreement in here and feel its ok?
Jun 01 00:05:39 <Judas-C> off of ndas and back on to super secret secret directories lol
Jun 01 00:06:02 <ryanwatkins> asking if i can chat with someone thats already in the program about the api?
Jun 01 00:06:27 <ryanwatkins> you've gotta be kidding.
Jun 01 00:06:45 <oil> you obviously dont get it, but thats ok
Jun 01 00:06:50 <Judas-C> are you in the EA
Jun 01 00:07:33 <ryanwatkins> so I can post in the online forum, I can email back and forth about dev issues with others in the program, but i cant .. have a private online chat with those same people.  right.
Jun 01 00:07:45 <oil> no, feel free
Jun 01 00:09:00 <DocLee> ryanwatkins, I'm with you on this 100%
Jun 01 00:09:11 <ryanwatkins> but that means I'm ttreating this one "like the words "Non Disclosure Agreement" mean nothing" - uh sure.
Jun 01 00:09:25 <Judas-C> oil I will post about the hidden directories on precentral but it really does happen in terminal and terminus also
Jun 01 00:11:00 <DocLee> With the product releases coming sometime soon, it's pretty ridiculous to still be under NDA.
Jun 01 00:11:07 <DocLee> If Palm wants apps, they'd open up the entire system
Jun 01 00:11:53 <ryanwatkins> they can have an NDA, I'm fine with that. But clearly private communication with those already in the program, given the dev workshops they have, are not a violation.
Jun 01 00:12:15 <Judas-C> ohh oil. there is still the issue where I have to go to jstop to kill wirc if I don't then luna crashes.
Jun 01 00:12:30 <oil> upgrade
Jun 01 00:12:32 <Popple3> ryanwatkins: The problem is, you can't verify if people here in IRC are in EA
Jun 01 00:12:45 <Popple3> DocLee: Apple do the same with their dev program
Jun 01 00:12:54 <Popple3> NDA right up to release
Jun 01 00:13:04 <ryanwatkins> if they are a palm employee, or can discuss the question i have I'm pretty sure they are
Jun 01 00:13:07 <Judas-C> lol not that simple I will just have to work with it then
Jun 01 00:13:58 <Judas-C> no pc to upgrade to 2.1
Jun 01 00:14:05 <ryanwatkins> whatever, my time better spent actually working on the code, than debating the finer legal points of a non-NDA situation.
Jun 01 00:14:15 <oil> i was talking about upgrading wirc not your os
Jun 01 00:14:39 <DocLee> Popple3, That's not necessarily true
Jun 01 00:14:45 <Judas-C> I have the latest
Jun 01 00:14:47 <Popple3> ryanwatkins: Fair enough on the employee point (if they've got a known username registered here), but in order to verify I'm in EA, you'd need to mention things that are under NDA
Jun 01 00:14:54 <sugardave> the problem is circular, saying you are part of EA actually violates the NDA...so, technically, it sucks
Jun 01 00:14:56 <DocLee> They've had open beta releases for registered developers since 3.
Jun 01 00:14:57 <Popple3> DocLee: How so?
Jun 01 00:15:00 <Judas-C> .13
Jun 01 00:15:07 <Popple3> DocLee: Yeah, but they're under NDA
Jun 01 00:15:29 <oil> i just dont want someone mentioning something they dont think is important screwing up my early access
Jun 01 00:15:50 <oil> like someone randomly talking about oh, theres an on screen keyboard, seems innocent, but almost killed early access
Jun 01 00:15:52 <DocLee> Popple3, NDA was dropped in 2008
Jun 01 00:16:08 <DocLee> Popple3, http://www.macworld.com/article/135826/2008/10/nda_dead.html
Jun 01 00:16:43 <halfhalo> good times....
Jun 01 00:16:50 <oil> i didn't mean to start this argument when i mentioned the nda, i was merely hinting to be careful with what is said
Jun 01 00:16:59 <oil> because i dont want you screwing anything up for me
Jun 01 00:18:29 <DocLee> I guess there was a 4 beta NDA, however.
Jun 01 00:18:42 <DocLee> Probably because of the major upgrade
Jun 01 00:18:50 <Popple3> yeah, there's been NDAs since then
Jun 01 00:18:58 * halfhalo has ribs for dinner
Jun 01 00:19:16 <Popple3> halfhalo: trying to change the subject? :P
Jun 01 00:19:51 <DocLee> oil, if there aren't apps (good apps) for the new devices, you're going to be screwed in the end anyway
Jun 01 00:20:00 <oil> not me
Jun 01 00:20:05 <oil> i make what i want to use :)
Jun 01 00:20:12 <halfhalo> ribs>nda
Jun 01 00:20:25 <DocLee> Kind of hard to make something for devices if those devices don't exist...
Jun 01 00:20:30 <sugardave> pig ribs are so damned tasty
Jun 01 00:20:37 <sugardave> now you have made me want ribs
Jun 01 00:20:43 <oil> lol
Jun 01 00:21:12 <DocLee> Apps sell devices.
Jun 01 00:22:33 <rwhitby> HP keeps their NDA in place well after product release for some reason.
Jun 01 00:22:41 <oil> DocLee: im not saying i think its a good thing that its under NDA
Jun 01 00:22:43 <rwhitby> ergo webOS 2.0 SDK NDA
Jun 01 00:22:49 <oil> im saying thats how it is
Jun 01 00:23:08 <Popple3> rwhitby: Hopefully they'll have learned from that when the TouchPad is out
Jun 01 00:23:44 <Popple3> Although I know there's the Veer novacom drivers issue since then...
Jun 01 00:25:47 <halfhalo> I do like the fact that the novacom drivers for the pre2 were still under nda all the way until feb.  I mean, cmon.
Jun 01 00:26:49 <rwhitby> novacom drivers for linux for veer are still under NDA
Jun 01 00:28:49 <halfhalo> ...
Jun 01 00:29:57 <halfhalo> I'm thinking part of it is that the proper people don't know that stuff is still under nda when it shouldn't be, because thats just ridiculous.
Jun 01 00:45:58 * haeffb smoked some pig ribs over the weekend
Jun 01 00:46:10 <haeffb> and may or may not be under an NDA
Jun 01 00:46:54 <haeffb> sugardave went to get ribs?
Jun 01 00:47:52 <oil> can't talk about it
Jun 01 00:47:55 <oil> lo
Jun 01 00:47:58 <oil> lol*
Jun 01 00:52:29 <haeffb> ain't technology grand? Support email in German? Just run it thru Google translate.
Jun 01 00:52:42 <halfhalo> lol
Jun 01 00:52:44 <bartholemew> which is going away in december
Jun 01 00:52:57 <halfhalo> _what_
Jun 01 00:53:01 <haeffb> the API goes away. Does their website?
Jun 01 00:53:20 <bartholemew> oh. wait.  good question.
Jun 01 00:53:42 <haeffb> wait. Google Chrome has AUTOMATIC translation
Jun 01 00:54:45 <bartholemew> ok, no.  webmasters are encouraged to use the translate element
Jun 01 00:54:50 <bartholemew> http://code.google.com/apis/language/translate/overview.html
Jun 01 00:55:21 <bartholemew> guess the API was getting abused
Jun 01 00:56:00 <bartholemew> nevermind ... :D
Jun 01 00:56:33 <haeffb> but it's not translating my email
Jun 01 00:56:36 <haeffb> bogus
Jun 01 00:56:49 <bartholemew> for endless entertainment, translate something even mildly funny in your native language to some very unrelated language and then back
Jun 01 01:16:35 <oil> bartholemew: http://translationparty.com/
Jun 01 01:17:18 <halfhalo> party you say....
Jun 01 01:17:30 <haeffb> \o/ Party!!!
Jun 01 01:17:47 * haeffb doesn't think in object orientation
Jun 01 01:18:28 <bartholemew> translationparty.com.  excellent.  bookmarked.
Jun 01 01:18:43 <oil> well
Jun 01 01:18:50 <oil> itl work till they cut off the api, heh
Jun 01 01:19:02 <bartholemew> I will be endlessly amused.    or, at equilibrium, "I will endlessly interesting"
Jun 01 01:20:03 <bartholemew> hm.  took a lot more cycles to find equilibrium for "I will be amused until they cut off the api" ... but it settled on "API is interesting that I used to break"
Jun 01 01:20:14 <oil> lol
Jun 01 01:20:15 <bartholemew> thx for the link
Jun 01 01:20:20 <oil> np
Jun 01 01:21:15 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I'm so happy there's finally an onboard QR decoder for webOS
Jun 01 01:21:24 <halfhalo> woawhat
Jun 01 01:21:29 <IGNTNUNLMTD> but at the same time, I wish the app was a little bit higher quality
Jun 01 01:21:47 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I want to contact that dev and design him a nicer interface and icon
Jun 01 01:21:52 <IGNTNUNLMTD> for free
Jun 01 01:22:15 <IGNTNUNLMTD> halfhalo: search "Offline barcode" in the Catalog if you've got 2.x
Jun 01 01:22:49 <haeffb> I have a decoder board, Qr are happy to fill the final
Jun 01 01:23:11 <IGNTNUNLMTD> wtf did you just say?
Jun 01 01:23:12 <IGNTNUNLMTD> lol
Jun 01 01:23:22 <halfhalo> effort....
Jun 01 01:25:27 <IGNTNUNLMTD> ?
Jun 01 01:25:33 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I am so confused
Jun 01 01:25:45 <oil> i think thats on purpose
Jun 01 01:26:06 <halfhalo> its always a bonus
Jun 01 01:28:06 <IGNTNUNLMTD> ?!?!?!
Jun 01 01:28:31 <halfhalo> .me is looking at knifes on amazon
Jun 01 01:28:45 <oil> . haha
Jun 01 01:30:29 <halfhalo> .suckit
Jun 01 01:31:03 <halfhalo> http://www.amazon.com/Columbia-River-Knife-Tool-M16-13SFG/dp/B001J31HDG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1306891765&sr=8-4
Jun 01 01:41:00 <IGNTNUNLMTD> cwayne: where in MA?
Jun 01 01:41:21 <cwayne> IGNTNUNLMTD: boston
Jun 01 01:41:32 <IGNTNUNLMTD> I'm right outside of
Jun 01 02:05:00 <cwayne> IGNTNUNLMTD: oh yeah<\? where?
Jun 01 02:05:16 <IGNTNUNLMTD> Dedham
Jun 01 02:05:32 * halfhalo just purchased more knives
Jun 01 02:06:24 <IGNTNUNLMTD> halfhalo: nice.
Jun 01 02:07:10 <halfhalo> throwing knives even
Jun 01 02:10:29 * halfhalo has issues
Jun 01 02:52:18 <sugardave> This EliteBook is pretty nice!
Jun 01 02:53:15 <haeffb> did you get my TouchPad?
Jun 01 02:53:32 <sugardave> maybe
Jun 01 02:53:58 <halfhalo> I call dibs on the next one
Jun 01 02:56:01 * haeffb is frustrated
Jun 01 02:56:10 <haeffb> code that worked last night doesn't work tonight
Jun 01 02:56:23 <haeffb> API server is returning 401 unauthorized
Jun 01 02:56:29 <sugardave> weak
Jun 01 02:56:38 <haeffb> precisely
Jun 01 02:58:19 <LoneStar99> evening all
Jun 01 02:58:57 <haeffb> the login works and returns a token. The next step uses the token, but returns 401
Jun 01 02:59:02 <haeffb> sigh.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 01 02:59:56 2011