**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 24 02:59:56 2011 Oct 24 03:00:49 sugardave: hm. though maybe it appears to just change the destination during an ongoing scroll? where scrollTo actually restarts it? Oct 24 03:01:19 might work. Oct 24 03:01:44 oh yeah that good idea Oct 24 03:01:54 scroll to w/o animation Oct 24 03:02:22 easier than trying to edit this math that i have no idea how it works and won't unless i spend a week getting used to it Oct 24 03:02:48 you can do that, too...but I'm looking at this verlet function in the scroll strategy....wonder if it might be easier to make your own and just override that puppy to do nothing Oct 24 03:02:53 ya, I think messing with the scroller math in enyo would be .. dangerous. :) Oct 24 03:03:07 ah Oct 24 03:03:28 hmm verlet. what's in here Oct 24 03:03:46 and maybe some combo of futzing with the damping/friction stuff Oct 24 03:03:57 "for simulating Newtonianian motion" - that sounds like gravity Oct 24 03:03:59 heavy friction, heavy damping...maybe? Oct 24 03:04:50 I tried damping/friction, but not at the max values. maybe. Oct 24 03:05:15 I used the kFrictionDamping in PaperMache to get a "faster" scroll beween pages. Oct 24 03:06:48 the verlet looks like it's softening the scroll. i.e. slowing it down. Oct 24 03:07:08 hmm, I was using this for a while, to keep a carousel from overscrolling (mostly): Oct 24 03:07:09 try instead of this.x0 = x; ------- do this.x0 = this.x; Oct 24 03:07:11 this.$.headerCarousel.$.scroll.kSpringDamping = 0.0; this.$.headerCarousel.$.scroll.kDragDamping = 0.0; this.$.headerCarousel.$.scroll.kFrictionDamping = 0.0; Oct 24 03:07:20 see if that makes it linear Oct 24 03:08:51 ya, so setScrollPositionDirect just just seem to set it immediately .. now gonna try the others Oct 24 03:09:28 interesting...it calls effectScroll in there :D Oct 24 03:10:01 ya, that kinda thru me, but ran it on the device and its clearly jumping position of scroll on the interval I'm calling it. Oct 24 03:10:21 word Oct 24 03:11:45 nice Oct 24 03:12:04 that's all she wrote! but now what if you flick it Oct 24 03:13:10 scroller works for user interaction too, so I need to put the damping values back when I'm done manually scrolling it. Oct 24 03:17:58 that sounds like a hell of an awesome scroller you've got there. Oct 24 03:19:27 so ya, setting them all to zero seems to cause it to have .. no friction and scroll to the position immediately. Oct 24 03:19:49 with no spring/ overscroll tho. :) Oct 24 03:20:23 if you jack up the friction damping it might slow it down and then you'd have it Oct 24 03:23:41 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Oct 24 03:23:56 ya, I think issus is that while it reduces the ramp in/out, it also dramatically reduces the time for the whole effect to run Oct 24 03:24:29 so to make it appear bascially linear, it also execudes in like 1/10 a sec. Oct 24 03:24:53 executes. so the animation just finishes very very fast. Oct 24 03:25:01 oops Oct 24 03:25:21 turn friction all the way up Oct 24 03:25:28 wait a second Oct 24 03:25:35 so what is this scrolling? Oct 24 03:25:37 reducing it LOWERS it Oct 24 03:25:54 So this is Paper Mache - you have an article you can manually scroll thru Oct 24 03:25:55 if you put friction at 1, this means it's on dry ice Oct 24 03:26:07 a.k.a. zero friction Oct 24 03:26:11 I want a feature where if you "tilt" the TP, it starts scrolling. Oct 24 03:26:14 but at a fixed rate. Oct 24 03:26:22 hey you stole that from my brain! Oct 24 03:26:24 :P Oct 24 03:26:32 kFrictionDamping: 1, Oct 24 03:26:35 I was going to do an ereader with that feature Oct 24 03:26:38 ya, I stole it from Instapaper :) Oct 24 03:26:43 anyway, let's continue Oct 24 03:26:43 that's really cool Oct 24 03:26:58 so basically you want to apply gravity Oct 24 03:27:02 hang on, I have an idea Oct 24 03:27:13 ya, faster scroll with more tilt woudl be nice too, but not critical. Oct 24 03:27:40 a scroller on wheels Oct 24 03:27:48 so I set "yep, tilting" and then periodically say "scroll some more please" Oct 24 03:28:16 so that has to be linear, not ease in / ease out or it looks silly Oct 24 03:29:21 damn, was looking at scrollIntoView, but it says it does it without animation Oct 24 03:29:36 you could always have it scrolling in 1025 or -1 dpending on which way you tilted Oct 24 03:29:46 drag&springdamping to 0, frictiondamping & snapfriction both to 1 Oct 24 03:29:59 there is also scrollOffsetIntoView, but I assume it is also without animation Oct 24 03:30:55 but if your still tilting when you reach that destination, it should keep scrolling Oct 24 03:31:14 right, as long as it's tilted, keep calling scrollIntoView Oct 24 03:31:19 if it was animated Oct 24 03:31:22 ah Oct 24 03:31:56 you could put it on a delay based on the amount of tilt Oct 24 03:32:00 conveninetly I have a second half of the feature is if you "tilt and tilt back quickly" it pages. :) Oct 24 03:32:05 much easier. Oct 24 03:32:15 heh, yeah Oct 24 03:32:15 so "tilt to flip page". Oct 24 03:32:53 well, hmm Oct 24 03:33:01 you could try my idea there with scrollTo Oct 24 03:33:05 since it animates Oct 24 03:34:25 rwatkins: are you using fast accelerometer or no? Oct 24 03:34:41 sugardave: not currently Oct 24 03:34:54 orientationchange seems to happen fast enough so far Oct 24 03:35:31 yeah, 4 per second on accel events is pretty good for "not games" Oct 24 03:35:34 so .. scrollTo, but .. how so? adjusting kFrictionDamping, or did I miss something along the way Oct 24 03:35:49 so here's my idea Oct 24 03:36:16 you have your "page" of scrollable data of some height/width Oct 24 03:37:27 have a listener on the acceleration events, and when you detect the tilt in adirection, scrollTo either -1 or (width + 1), depending on which direction you want to go. If you're just moving 1 pixel at a time, maybe all that friction crap won't make a shit? Oct 24 03:38:04 right - so scrollTo a full page, but since I call it every 250ms you never get to the ease-out part Oct 24 03:38:35 I poked at that a bit .. but with much smaller values for the distance - 75 rather than a full page width. Oct 24 03:38:50 rwatkins: did u try my settings Oct 24 03:38:57 maybe larger values is what I need - assumign there is no easy-in of the scroll effect Oct 24 03:39:05 fxspec06: have not tried the 1.0 value yet Oct 24 03:39:39 put the springs at 0, and the frictions at 1. curious as to the result Oct 24 03:40:27 wait, I'm confused now...it's not hard to do lately Oct 24 03:40:28 so Oct 24 03:40:44 I thought you wanted a no effect scroller at a linear speed? Oct 24 03:40:49 correct Oct 24 03:41:10 and scrollTo appears to have atleast an "ease-out" as it gets close to the destination. Oct 24 03:41:27 if you were to move a regular scroller by 1 pixel, does it really do an ease-in/ease-out on that? because that would suck Oct 24 03:41:38 ah Oct 24 03:41:41 that's the friction.. turn friction off by setting it to 1 Oct 24 03:41:56 ok but if I move it 1px I have to call it like every 2ms to get any decent scroll speed. :) Oct 24 03:42:03 if you roll a ball on the ground, friction is what causes it to stop Oct 24 03:42:19 NO Oct 24 03:42:19 what about 30/sec? Oct 24 03:42:23 angels do Oct 24 03:42:29 if there was no friction it would keep rolling forever at a constant speed Oct 24 03:42:36 no the angels will stop it Oct 24 03:42:39 to turn friction off, set it to 1 Oct 24 03:42:45 sugardave: ya, so I think that will work, assuming the scroller has no ease-in as well. Oct 24 03:42:57 god made friction so we could argue in IRC Oct 24 03:42:59 fxspec06: ya, gonna try that in one sec. but I think zero friction might be interesting. :) Oct 24 03:43:26 acid erosion Oct 24 03:43:30 I think you want 0 friction so that it moves instantly Oct 24 03:43:43 er, am I backwards? Oct 24 03:43:44 why not -20 Oct 24 03:43:53 dawm 0 - 1 Oct 24 03:44:01 ya, but if friction is 0 then the animation ends immediately - so then its just as good as setting it directly w/o animation on a timer. :) Oct 24 03:44:25 well hold on Oct 24 03:44:35 then that is what you should do in the accel listener Oct 24 03:44:41 set direct Oct 24 03:44:43 kFrictionDamping: 0.97, Oct 24 03:44:51 'friction' damping reduces momentum over time (lower provides MORE friction) Oct 24 03:45:12 fxspec06: friction 1 (and spring 0) gets me no scroll at all. Oct 24 03:45:43 sugardave: right, I can then just set it direclty and call it fast enough to look smooth. but then I'm back to square one of manually animating every frame with a JS timer. Oct 24 03:45:58 drag damping at 0 and snapfriction at 1 too Oct 24 03:46:03 hmm. Oct 24 03:46:10 rwatkins: do it in the accel handler Oct 24 03:46:13 sugardave: so say "setScrollTop(top + 10px)" every 40 ms .. works. but well I'm calling it ever 40 ms. Oct 24 03:46:15 it's going to run anyway Oct 24 03:47:35 right but then its jumping position every 1/4 second if I call it in the accel handler if I use setScrollTop. if I use scrollTo it may appear to ease-in and ease-out the effect slightly if its non-linear during the time period I'm letting it run. Oct 24 03:48:03 but you can make it do it 30 tiems a second and move a shorter (maybe imperceptible?) difference..1 px? Oct 24 03:48:58 sure I can ramp up the calls to scrollTo so its moves a very small distance -- but then perf issues from calling it so often? Oct 24 03:49:35 I mean, if you enable fast accelerometer...that handler will run 30 times a second no matter what else you do...stick your code in that handler Oct 24 03:50:13 right - but that is the same as setTimeout(setScroll, 40); Oct 24 03:50:28 but it isn't both Oct 24 03:51:36 as it is, the system is generating accelerator events 4 times a second without you doing anything...you're talking about maybe implementing a custom animation solution on top of that...IF you want to go that way, I'd suggest just kicking up the acceleration poll and use that Oct 24 03:52:23 sugardave: right - that eliminates the need for the timer, but its still doing setScroll 30 times / sec. Oct 24 03:52:29 make it a -webkit-marquee :P Oct 24 03:52:35 ha Oct 24 03:52:57 I was actually impressed how well that worked in Mojo on 1.4.5 Oct 24 03:53:20 you could always include iscroll :D Oct 24 03:53:34 iscroll fucking blows in Enyo, take it from me Oct 24 03:54:01 well, in our webkit period it seems Oct 24 03:54:21 lemme go see about cranking up fast acceleration Oct 24 03:54:32 =( i like the enyo scrollers personally. i see no reason to use anything else, unless you want more customization Oct 24 03:54:50 but there's got to be a way to set it the way rwatkins wants Oct 24 03:55:57 during my project I have taken an iscroller that is horrible in the app and customized it into a virtual carousel...man, that shit is awesome Oct 24 03:56:59 the virtual carousel has the smoothest scrolling strategy of them all, I think Oct 24 03:57:23 I'm in love with the virtual carousel...my wife is jealous Oct 24 03:58:01 never used the enyo carousel .. so far Oct 24 03:58:02 lol. i'll see if i can think of a cool use for it one of these days. wait, tibfib is releasing a virtual carousel with nomnom Oct 24 03:58:37 I'll be sure to point out which app it is if/when I finish the damn thing ;) Oct 24 03:59:09 I think Tibfib_ was trying to extend the Palm one and make it show more than just a single "view" at a time Oct 24 03:59:38 hmmmm i'm trying to imagine it Oct 24 03:59:46 so it would be 5 views instead of 3, I guess...unless he was really hardcore and did 9 Oct 24 03:59:54 Tibfib_: ARE YOU HARDCORE?!?! Oct 24 04:00:14 there's no way Tibfib_ did 9 Oct 24 04:00:41 oh my bad, it would only need to be 7 Oct 24 04:04:23 man idk how people can stand reading books to learn how to code Oct 24 04:04:29 just read the api Oct 24 04:04:49 books are boring. too much filler Oct 24 04:04:55 cut to the chase!!!!!!! Oct 24 04:06:27 sugardave: so ya, looks like I can set it fast and call from the handler, and its smooth. Oct 24 04:06:38 fxspec06: I gotta say the Crockford book was really good Oct 24 04:06:43 can also set a timer every 40 ms and does the same. Oct 24 04:06:43 rwatkins: sweet Oct 24 04:06:48 heh Oct 24 04:07:07 just feels a little dirty calling to scrollTo 30 times a sec. :) Oct 24 04:07:20 hey, app dev is a dirty business Oct 24 04:07:41 you should see some of the shit I've had to write in to this one ;) Oct 24 04:07:41 hmm books. i guess there can be some cool stuff you'd miss in book Oct 24 04:07:55 the app approval process is unlikely to whack me for "consumes lots of cpu" :) Oct 24 04:08:09 that feature is there for you to use! Oct 24 04:08:42 rwatkins: wildn has 5x settimeouts going at 30ms each for background animation Oct 24 04:08:55 fxspec06: crazy Oct 24 04:08:58 and you can make it go as fast as 10ms and as slow as 100ms Oct 24 04:09:06 :O Oct 24 04:09:42 almost winter so its a feature - tilt to read your articles in Paper Mache and keep your hands warm Oct 24 04:09:55 rwatkins: another benefit to using the accel handler is you have asy access to the orientation...so no need to call and check it to determine which way to scroll Oct 24 04:10:14 er pitch/tilt Oct 24 04:10:17 whichever Oct 24 04:10:38 pitch/roll - but ya, I'l grab orientation from postion on the evnet there. nice optimization Oct 24 04:11:01 too bad you cant rotation lock and then tilt while laying down on the couch. Oct 24 04:11:18 still no solution on that one? Oct 24 04:11:55 not that I can see. posted to the forum, maybe Ben or someone chimes in Oct 24 04:13:09 I guess if you were determined enough, you could keep track of it's likely orientation yourself through the life of the app...that would be horrible, but possible Oct 24 04:13:19 s/it's/its/ Oct 24 04:13:24 I hate that typo Oct 24 04:15:01 assuming it doesnt skip an orientation perhaps. Oct 24 04:15:14 and problematic that the user can have it set before launching the app. Oct 24 04:16:47 rwatkins: yep, that's one of the horrible parts Oct 24 04:17:11 I use rotation lock all the time in various modes Oct 24 04:17:41 I don't think I ever have Oct 24 04:17:57 nice feature, glad they added it system wide. but just screws me for this case. Oct 24 04:18:40 well, so what is it you want to override when they turn it? the user is still thinking it should be oriented that way, right? Oct 24 04:19:18 I just want to know the orientation of the app, not just the device Oct 24 04:19:59 so when your holding it and standing up normal, you can "tilt right" and it goes a page forward. Oct 24 04:20:22 but if you lock it and then lay down on your side, its still the same interaction for the user Oct 24 04:20:32 tilt right from the apps orientation. Oct 24 04:20:41 not the device orientation to the earth Oct 24 04:21:38 hmmm...so, when they lay on the couch, do the pitch/roll values report correctly when they tilt it? Oct 24 04:21:50 they report correctly - based on direction to the center of the earth Oct 24 04:21:57 bogus Oct 24 04:22:16 if the app locked the rotation it can do the correction - use pitch rather than roll. Oct 24 04:22:42 because it knows the app orientation. but the system locked it, so the app doesnt know if its in 'up' or 'down' Oct 24 04:22:47 right Oct 24 04:23:32 i guess I can pick pitch or roll - i know landscape or portrait, but I cant reverse the direction for "up" vs. "down". Oct 24 04:23:33 you could do fuzzy checking if pitch or roll exceed this, go to the page Oct 24 04:25:14 its more that I know its tilted 45 degrees, but I dont know if that was 45 left or right of the users orientation. Oct 24 04:26:03 it doesn't do - reporting? Oct 24 04:26:06 if they flipped the device the other way, I'd scroll the page the wrong way Oct 24 04:26:08 holy crap Oct 24 04:27:07 so there's an orientation that lets you tell if the device is face up or down, but I don't know if that gets messed up with the rotation lock Oct 24 04:27:08 I'm getting +45 or -45, but I only know that in relation to the earth, I dont know if they layed down to their right or their left. when the app was fixed. Oct 24 04:27:28 oh, I'm thinking of holding it over my head :D Oct 24 04:27:49 ah! good catch. hadnt considered that. oof. Oct 24 04:28:10 heh, brains are funny Oct 24 04:28:23 so ya, guess i need to handle that too. Oct 24 04:28:41 that one should be easy, though...if you can get face up or down when the lock is on Oct 24 04:28:50 ya I think so Oct 24 04:29:10 and switch to the other pitch or roll Oct 24 04:29:28 because I would pull the right side towards my face and want the next page to laod Oct 24 04:29:45 ya, I just need to flip the left/right when upside down too Oct 24 04:30:28 you could also add a disclaimer: "NOT FOR USE WHEN LAYING ON YOUR SIDE" Oct 24 04:31:50 heh Oct 24 04:40:34 goodnight guys. good luck rwatkins. too tired to open my eyes any more Oct 24 04:40:47 thx for the suggestions Oct 24 10:24:25 anybody have their microusb port wear out on touchpad? Oct 24 11:00:30 sounds like you have been using some excessive force to it Oct 24 11:28:26 hello Oct 24 11:29:44 exists a good scp client for webos? Oct 24 11:57:16 hi Oct 24 11:58:54 when I try to install"OpenSSH SFTP Server" on my Pre3 through Preware, it downlaods and then hangs and never goes to the next step. Anyone would have a clue about that ? Oct 24 14:17:49 any idea how i could show images from a webserver that needs http authentication? Oct 24 14:20:06 you need to shake hands pretty sure.. Oct 24 14:20:37 i wouldn't think there would be any way around authentication Oct 24 14:21:31 http://user:pass@www.site.com/image.png Oct 24 14:23:55 hows your gravity scroller coming rwatkins Oct 24 14:24:32 fxspec06: ended up going with sorta what we talked about Oct 24 14:24:52 calling scrollTo so often that it never gets to the easy-out part of the scroll animation. Oct 24 14:25:08 seems ok - will put up in the beta feed tomorrow Oct 24 14:25:12 hm how does that affect performance Oct 24 14:25:41 scroll is smooth, but likey consumes plenty of cpu cycles. Oct 24 14:26:10 not a terrible thing. cpu's were made to be cycled Oct 24 16:07:26 not PerhapsAdora? Oct 24 16:54:15 rwhitby (I know you're not online), but I got the maps update on my Pre (1.4.5, Telcel), and the 2.1 Pixi (9.9.9 on the profile server). I think you could safely assume it can be installed everywhere Oct 24 16:54:46 it can be, but it isn't. Oct 24 16:55:45 it's like the facebook app (for phone): sure, everyone can install and most likely has it. but i'm sure there's a crapload of people who don't and won't ever get it Oct 24 17:03:40 fxspec06: True. Also, you need to login to a profile to download it. So, it's not "in the current versions", but it's downloadable for most users Oct 24 18:08:30 hmm update of acrobat reader 10.3.406 doesn't work on my touchpad :( Oct 24 18:12:25 I'm surprised we haven't had any "Cornholio" jokes on #webos. Oct 24 18:15:21 touchpads and bungholes don't mix Oct 24 18:16:05 Shadyman and EricBlade, this is your only warning Oct 24 18:16:11 (just kidding) Oct 24 18:16:36 * EricBlade glares crazed at sugardave, "DO YOU HAVE A TP?" Oct 24 18:17:01 he's an HP employee Oct 24 18:17:09 (or, was) Oct 24 18:17:20 haven't heard if they stole your keys yet Oct 24 18:17:25 still is, i think? Oct 24 18:17:32 ooh this reminds me.. new beavis and butthead starts thu Oct 24 18:18:04 last time I checked I am still employed...my vpn even still works :) Oct 24 18:18:42 * Shadyman eyes EricBlade, "I NEED TP" Oct 24 18:19:58 sugardave: soo.... who is HP selling webOS to? :-P Oct 24 18:20:23 summatusmentis: trollface Oct 24 18:22:40 summatusmentis: well, you wouldn't believe me if I told you (if I knew), but I wouldn't be able to tell you anyway, so....hey how about them Cowboys? Oct 24 18:22:55 yeee haw Oct 24 18:23:51 * Shadyman puts on his webOS Polo shirt Oct 24 18:24:50 sugardave: I know you can't tell me, I wan't really expecting you to Oct 24 18:25:11 so hp is going to sell webos to north korea? Oct 24 18:25:20 summatusmentis: That's also not something they'd *tell* anyone, even employees Oct 24 18:25:32 Shadyman: yeah yeah, I know Oct 24 18:25:37 ;) Oct 24 18:38:22 hmm. i happened to notice that my touchpad was feeling very warm on my lap, so i checked Govnah, and sho' nuff, core 1 is cranked out to max and holding. "top" shows WebAppMgr sitting at 97% cpu usage constantly. . . any suggestions for diagnosing the cause? Oct 24 18:39:01 ssh into it and run 'top'? Oct 24 18:39:22 or, plug it in and novaterm Oct 24 18:40:13 did any hack the TP pptp app on a touchpad ? Oct 24 18:41:57 * Shadyman notes the high level of the letters "p" and "t" in Simpson_2's question Oct 24 18:42:07 :) Oct 24 18:42:32 Simpson_2: You mean, add pptp support to Touchpad? Oct 24 18:42:48 I think HP made a plugin to do that, it should be in Catalog. Oct 24 18:43:26 yup I saw that, I actualy tapped enter to fast, did any1 manage to get that running on other apps ? Oct 24 18:43:28 oh well i'm going to kill the process Oct 24 18:43:32 devices Oct 24 18:43:43 maybe I should take a break :P Oct 24 18:54:56 never tried. I don't use pptp vpns Oct 24 18:55:15 the only one I have I run, and I also run an ipsec/l2tp right next to it Oct 24 19:57:05 anyone know if css3 animations are hardware accelerated in webOS? Oct 24 20:00:35 hey guys Oct 24 20:00:55 HattCzech_tp: I think the answer is "sometimes" Oct 24 20:01:00 i'm going to be returning from iraq soon... and the palm pre I can't seem to find on sprints web page anymore... Idk what other device to get now that my palm pre is failing... Oct 24 20:02:12 recomendations? Oct 24 20:03:20 how is your pre failing? if the comm board is good, make a frankenpre2 :-) Oct 24 20:03:32 thanks, rwatkins Oct 24 20:12:08 anyone? Oct 24 20:21:55 ShadeS: did my answer not seem reasonable? Oct 24 20:23:47 oh Oct 24 20:23:51 idk what a frankenpre2 is Oct 24 20:23:58 the plastic is chipping, it's starting to act flkaey Oct 24 20:24:05 buttons dont' quite work right Oct 24 20:24:07 it's dying man. Oct 24 20:24:15 ShadeS, pre2 with sprint comms board Oct 24 20:24:33 but you can still make calls any everything? Oct 24 20:24:46 well I haven't been able to make a call in over 6 months Oct 24 20:24:50 because I'm in Iraq Oct 24 20:24:54 until we close this bitch down Oct 24 20:25:10 so it should still work :-) Oct 24 20:25:11 APO/FPO? Oct 24 20:25:17 the APO is shutting down soon Oct 24 20:25:25 hmmm Oct 24 20:25:41 HattCzech_tp: protip: Iraq decreases eletronics lifespans 2x-4x or more Oct 24 20:25:47 the sand is as fine as flour Oct 24 20:25:57 ahhh, shitty Oct 24 20:26:07 and then one day, you go back to your CHU only to discover a mortar landed on it while you weren't in there, and all of your personal belongings are destroyed Oct 24 20:26:17 mmm, Oreo Pre- + flour sand = FAIL. Oct 24 20:26:22 frankenpre2 is a pre2 with one component swapped Oct 24 20:26:23 i'm not sure that my sprint insurance plan covers mortar attacks Oct 24 20:26:35 doubtful Oct 24 20:28:36 ShadeS: check http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Sprint_Pre_2 Oct 24 20:29:35 ok Oct 24 20:29:41 but i'm going to eventually have to get a new phone Oct 24 20:29:44 webos is on it's last legs... Oct 24 20:29:55 ShadeS, hopefully you aren't duration + 6months. Oct 24 20:30:11 ShadeS, for phone? probably... Oct 24 20:30:23 for other things...still alive. Oct 24 20:33:04 what do you mean duration + 66mo Oct 24 20:33:08 *6mo Oct 24 20:48:15 so... 8 ( Oct 24 20:48:21 i will need new hardware eventually Oct 24 20:48:25 this isn't going to cut it 'for ever' Oct 24 20:51:59 pre2? Oct 24 20:52:05 it's what I'm using Oct 24 20:52:29 And yes, flour sand sucks. Oct 24 20:53:08 Though in that case, I'd suggest something without a slide-out keyboard, as that mechanism is just begging to get sanded. Oct 24 21:00:22 6http://www.webosroundup.com/2011/10/breaking-richard-kerris-is-leaving-hp/ Oct 24 21:00:27 oop Oct 24 21:00:30 http://www.webosroundup.com/2011/10/breaking-richard-kerris-is-leaving-hp/ Oct 24 21:00:39 richard kerris leaving webOS / HP Oct 24 21:03:01 I'm not overly surprised Oct 24 21:03:19 lol Oct 24 21:09:08 i am totally surprised. Oct 24 21:09:09 ;) Oct 24 21:09:20 The sink is shipping Oct 24 21:09:26 the rats leave... Oct 24 21:09:43 Wow. I totaly said the sink is shipping ;) Oct 24 21:09:48 but, before hp bought palm, many people left, too. Oct 24 21:10:31 hm. i just said a german saw: "the rats leave before the ship sinks" Oct 24 21:11:27 Yeah. I _did_ mean "the ship is sinking" but my brain got confused ;) Oct 24 21:11:36 leiru: right, presumably HP is selling webOS at some point, and there doesn't really seem to be a future for it in general anyway Oct 24 21:11:49 summatusmentis: I've offered $15, they're calling me back tomorrow Oct 24 21:11:56 :-D Oct 24 21:12:13 :D Oct 24 21:12:20 that's okay, I gave $20. Oct 24 21:12:24 :p Oct 24 21:12:33 Damnit Oct 24 21:13:40 as one's reading they will call you probably in real. Oct 24 21:13:51 they seem to scare everyone whos willing to buy Oct 24 21:14:01 they act like morons. Oct 24 21:15:45 for me its fun. i worked at a mobile company but quit my job 3 weeks before that announcement. Oct 24 21:15:55 I want a platform agnostic cloud-based mobile OS Oct 24 21:16:01 none exist anymore Oct 24 21:16:28 summatusmentis: http://xkcd.com/908/ Oct 24 21:16:50 and HP paid us too for writing apps. i didn't join the dev team and just teached them because it looked not reliable for a longer future. Oct 24 21:17:34 src: http://mobilbranche.de/2011/08/hp-bezahlt-firmen-fur-webos-apps/4880 Oct 24 21:17:36 Well, HP currently has a fair bit of mindshare in webOS, what with the number of touchpads out there now Oct 24 21:18:20 except, they don't have commercial backing for apps, and they don't have hardware Oct 24 21:18:33 I'd like to be optimistic, but I have hard time seeing it go anywhere Oct 24 21:18:36 So they need to do *something* Oct 24 21:19:00 Shadyman: everything they do is dumb. Oct 24 21:19:05 they do alot of things Oct 24 21:19:11 but it's a joke. Oct 24 21:19:19 they dont have to do something. they can also just do nothing. and let it die. Oct 24 21:20:03 rwatkins: true. but i see they are trying from some position to do something. and it's a joke. Oct 24 21:20:19 for me, hp management is a clown Oct 24 21:20:55 in past i often was angry about that. now i am just grinning. Oct 24 21:20:59 heh. Oct 24 21:21:01 I think one of the biggest stupids was either A) not letting the TP demo units update themselves, or B) giving out the mystical update stick right after 3.0.2 came out. Oct 24 21:21:21 I mean, even as the demos were taken down after the hubbub of the firesale was over, they were all still running 3.0.0 Oct 24 21:21:34 aka lag city. Oct 24 21:21:58 That and the price point, but that's another story. Oct 24 21:22:08 Shadyman: i think they didn't knew that they drop it when producing the demo units. Oct 24 21:22:39 they thought about it in their amangement suits and then they drove everything against a wall. Oct 24 21:22:45 and that wall was hard. Oct 24 21:22:49 hm? Demo units were set to forcibly ignore OTA updates. Oct 24 21:22:58 after that they tried to dig further into that wall. Oct 24 21:23:27 and further and further. Oct 24 21:23:29 Heh. No comment. Oct 24 21:23:36 :D Oct 24 21:23:49 I'm just thinking from the retail side of things, as that's what I've been working with. Oct 24 21:24:08 My webOS polo shirt sits longingly in the corner of my room. Oct 24 21:25:08 I'll trade you for my shell branded polo :P Oct 24 21:25:16 Heh. Oct 24 21:25:40 Or my 3 HP-brand polos Oct 24 21:26:13 The polo was the crappiest thing I got when I worked for Shell Oct 24 21:26:23 Heh. Oct 24 21:26:34 and to clarify: i think hp has alot other problems than webOS, look at their stock prices after their announcement. Oct 24 21:26:42 gas cards > polo shirt Oct 24 21:26:45 heh Oct 24 21:26:58 IMHO, I don't think PSG is going anywhere. Oct 24 21:27:13 i tink they will suffer alot from that. Oct 24 21:27:34 That and BBC (?) announcing that HP was shutting down PSG. Oct 24 21:28:09 The number of times I get people saying "So I hear HP is getting out of the computer market..." Oct 24 21:28:51 even with knowing of the circumstances... i wouldn't buy HP hardware. Oct 24 21:29:04 lol Oct 24 21:29:07 why not? Oct 24 21:29:24 Let's qualify that... Would you have bought HP hardware before the announcement? Oct 24 21:29:49 because they are uncertain about the future of their HW devision Oct 24 21:30:11 yes, i own a printer from hp. Oct 24 21:30:22 That's not PSG though ;) Oct 24 21:30:26 if i were a company i wouldn't buy anymore. Oct 24 21:30:31