**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 12 02:59:56 2011
Dec 12 03:06:22 <DougReeder> yeah, could claim it's switching to Qwerty, but you can't touch type on a soft keyboard anyway
Dec 12 03:14:41 <dwc-> I sorta can, but not great
Dec 12 03:19:05 <DougReeder> It ain't easy
Dec 12 03:19:45 <fxspec06> bein' cheesy
Dec 12 03:20:13 <dwc-> f'sheezy
Dec 12 03:23:46 <fxspec06> the guy who voice acts for joe in family guy does the voice acting for the cheetos guy
Dec 12 03:32:22 * DougReeder waves goodnight
Dec 12 03:39:50 <fxspec06> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0qgfqXU0P0
Dec 12 03:50:56 * EricBlade1 touchtypiasdfgw ON HIS ASDPFGJASDFGGH
Dec 12 03:51:03 <EricBlade1> er..
Dec 12 05:02:25 <PatrickC> so.. how does one fix the no-icon-in-the-dashboard issue for the pre3?
Dec 12 05:08:27 <Tommy> PatrickC: hey buddy, ltns.
Dec 12 05:08:35 <PatrickC> hey Tommy
Dec 12 05:08:42 <PatrickC> yeah. its been a while
Dec 12 05:08:48 <Tommy> PatrickC: are you on sprint?
Dec 12 05:08:54 <PatrickC> yeppers
Dec 12 05:09:02 <Tommy> you want a pixi?
Dec 12 05:09:26 <PatrickC> na, I've got a Pre that will turn into a Pre2 soon :)
Dec 12 05:09:31 <Tommy> k
Dec 12 05:09:32 <PatrickC> had a pixi for about a year
Dec 12 05:09:42 <Tommy> dude, i bought a pixi online, it was like $38 shipped
Dec 12 05:09:49 <Tommy> didn't realize it doesn't have wifi, and i don't have sprint... so it's useless.
Dec 12 05:10:10 <PatrickC> lol. craigslist
Dec 12 05:10:15 <PatrickC> sell it on *
Dec 12 05:10:20 <Tommy> yeah maybe
Dec 12 05:10:24 <Tommy> not much time, finals :P
Dec 12 05:10:48 <PatrickC> ll
Dec 12 05:10:50 <PatrickC> lol*
Dec 12 05:16:31 <PatrickC> and twitter users in here? got some general questions on what you would prefer in an app..
Dec 12 05:16:48 <PatrickC> I need a focus group.. figured here would be a good place to get one :)
Dec 12 05:19:42 <summatusmentis> you... bought it without checking to see if it had the things you wanted it to have?
Dec 12 05:19:53 <summatusmentis> that seems like poor planning
Dec 12 05:29:13 <PatrickC> night guys. I'll be on tomorrow again to ask those questions about what you would prefer in a twitter app for a few specific features :)
Dec 12 05:29:25 <EricBlade1> so.. umm.. i have an app installed.. but i can't find it on any of my launcher tabs.  i can find it with JustType, but I'd like to move it to somewhere.  how can I find it? heh
Dec 12 06:17:53 <Brybry> make app with bouncing multicolored balls, put it in front of your cat, and then consider how wise it is to let your cat with sharp claws paw at your screen
Dec 12 06:17:55 <Brybry> totally worth it
Dec 12 06:19:21 <wrea> thats why you put kitten mittens on them first
Dec 12 06:38:32 * EricBlade1 whines about not having the 2.2.4 update yet
Dec 12 07:02:44 <EricBlade1> ok which one of you guys is prank calling the GVoice Help Line
Dec 12 07:04:44 <wrea> its totally rwhitby
Dec 12 07:05:12 <EricBlade1> i just got a huge spam of emails "NEW VOICE MAIL RECEIVED" and they're all just like 30 seconds of silence"
Dec 12 07:11:51 * rwhitby can't even use gvoice, since it's US only
Dec 12 07:12:02 <rwhitby> have an account, can't use it.
Dec 12 07:30:36 <panel> hello
Dec 12 07:40:19 <EricBlade1> from what i've been told, if you have an account, then you should be able to use it no matter where you are
Dec 12 07:40:26 <EricBlade1> you just have to be in the US to create it
Dec 12 07:41:44 <panel> hello
Dec 12 07:42:53 <EricBlade1> but that wouldn't necessarily stop him from repeatedly spamming the help line
Dec 12 07:43:11 <EricBlade1> maybe panel did it
Dec 12 07:44:09 <dwc-> yep, anyone can call it
Dec 12 07:49:07 <EricBlade1> i don't think the HP app catalog ever gives out the telephone number that we provide for techinical support for the apps though
Dec 12 07:49:50 <dwc-> oh, I thought you'd posted a # for your users
Dec 12 07:50:21 <panel> what me
Dec 12 07:54:26 <panel> sorry I'm little bit out of order
Dec 12 07:54:41 <panel> one and ahlf hour sleep
Dec 12 07:54:48 <panel> *half
Dec 12 07:56:39 <panel> today I'll get dismisal from work
Dec 12 07:59:02 <panel> EricBlade1 eny news about 2.2.4 update for Pre2 ?
Dec 12 07:59:23 <EricBlade1> nope
Dec 12 08:00:11 <panel> and so webos doctor too ... :(
Dec 12 08:00:45 <panel> haven't been anybody successful with ebay "firesale" ?
Dec 12 08:01:01 <panel> sorry *have
Dec 12 08:10:20 <panel> dwc- EricBlade1 you guys you are all from US ?
Dec 12 08:12:10 <wrea> yeah, they are
Dec 12 08:12:22 * EricBlade1 unfortunately is in Michigan
Dec 12 08:12:22 <panel> :)
Dec 12 08:13:52 <panel> I'm working with internet from early years, but I'm still excited that people around the world can communicate together in same time :)
Dec 12 08:14:13 <EricBlade1> i go back to the first IRC clients
Dec 12 08:14:29 <EricBlade1> back when there were more IRC servers than there were IRC users
Dec 12 08:16:25 <panel> :)
Dec 12 08:17:21 <panel> that old times was more fun
Dec 12 08:18:00 <panel> I had my first BBC on 2400 baud modem :D
Dec 12 08:25:55 <EricBlade1> i did IRC on 300 and 1200bps modems
Dec 12 08:26:45 <panel> and your first computer ?
Dec 12 08:27:01 <EricBlade1> commodore vic 20
Dec 12 08:27:01 <panel> i guess some 8-bit
Dec 12 08:27:04 <panel> :)
Dec 12 08:28:44 <EricBlade1> oh man looks like the old IRC archives that had my old client are gone
Dec 12 08:28:52 <panel> EricBlade1 do you remember Bonzo ?
Dec 12 08:29:42 <EricBlade1> ?
Dec 12 08:31:37 <panel> was little bit addictive game on commodore :)
Dec 12 08:32:05 <cxreg> going to need a phone to replace my vzw pre+ soon
Dec 12 08:32:34 <cxreg> it's got a bunch of cracks in the screen :(
Dec 12 08:35:02 <EricBlade1> oh yay i found the old IRC client i wrote
Dec 12 08:35:33 <panel> :)
Dec 12 08:36:31 <EricBlade1> files in the oldest version archive range from November 1990 to July 1991
Dec 12 08:36:46 <panel> nice
Dec 12 08:37:29 <panel> I was started with pascal in 1994
Dec 12 08:38:58 <EricBlade1> LOL
Dec 12 08:39:01 <EricBlade1> someone stole my program
Dec 12 08:39:06 <EricBlade1> back in June of 91
Dec 12 08:39:17 <EricBlade1> and released the exact same thing with the exe files renamed
Dec 12 08:41:11 <panel> piracy was easier :)
Dec 12 08:41:29 <EricBlade1> i released it GPL
Dec 12 08:41:59 <EricBlade1> I admired Stallman when I was a boy
Dec 12 08:42:09 <EricBlade1> that turned out to be a significant error in judgment
Dec 12 10:00:00 <EricBlade1> hmm. anyone know how to get anything more complex than a single item to display on TOP of a ProgressBarItem ?
Dec 12 10:10:10 <EricBlade1> only reference i find to anyone ever referring to one, is that there was a change to how their CSS worked sometime during the betas of webOS 3
Dec 12 10:39:34 <EricBlade1> lol what the hell? chrome.exe - No Disk - There is no disk in the drive.  Please insert a disk into drive \Device\Harddisk3\DR31.
Dec 12 10:50:03 <Satellite> So would it be dumb of me to buy a Veer right now?
Dec 12 10:50:32 <EricBlade1> depends on what you want to use it for, i guess
Dec 12 10:52:20 <Satellite> would it be a bad idea to use it as my main cell?
Dec 12 10:56:43 <EricBlade1> i don't see why not, it's not like it won't continue working
Dec 12 11:01:36 <Satellite> how's the app situation? are people still updating apps?
Dec 12 11:06:29 <EricBlade1> for sure
Dec 12 11:06:59 <EricBlade1> i dont know how the phone situation is too much, i've only had a pre2 for about 4 days now, so i haven't seen too many updates
Dec 12 11:07:13 <EricBlade1> the pre1 has had maybe a dozen apps updated or added in the last week or so
Dec 12 11:10:00 <EricBlade1> touchpad app situation isn't real bad at all.  i've found lots of stuff to do with it, things that i never had any interest in before
Dec 12 11:30:52 <Satellite> EricBlade1: yeah I have a TouchPad, wanted to integrate the two
Dec 12 11:31:27 <EricBlade1> well, unless a 2.2.3 or 2.2.4 update comes out for Veer, the integration isn't quite what it should be
Dec 12 11:39:32 <Satellite> =/
Dec 12 11:59:27 <EricBlade1> from what i understand, the Veer has hardware support for the Touch-To-Share stuff, although in it's current state, onyl being able to transmit a URL to a TouchPad is kind of lame.
Dec 12 12:00:23 <panel> yes, TTS working only with 2.2.3
Dec 12 12:00:30 <panel> and A6 update
Dec 12 12:04:50 <EricBlade1> yea wtf is a A6
Dec 12 12:05:41 <EricBlade1> and god bless it i've been trying to get stuff inside a ProgressBarItem to show on top of it for -hours- and i'm about to cry.
Dec 12 12:07:43 <panel> A6 - modem update
Dec 12 12:08:03 <panel> it's very risky
Dec 12 12:08:55 <panel> but I'm not so sure that for TTS is required modem update
Dec 12 12:09:22 <panel> but without modem update is no 3G with 2.2.3 / 2.2.4
Dec 12 12:36:37 <Satellite> so it unlikely that the smartphone webOS will ever see an update again?
Dec 12 12:37:06 <panel> It's not so clear
Dec 12 12:37:39 <panel> they have newer versions done I think
Dec 12 12:38:23 <Satellite> how's the battery on the Veer, anyone know?
Dec 12 12:38:39 <panel> I have veer, I think it's good
Dec 12 12:39:17 <panel> but like other smartphones, if you using it lot, you have to charge it
Dec 12 12:39:39 <panel> for me is about two days when I'm using it without wifi
Dec 12 12:40:08 <panel> or little small synchronization with gmail
Dec 12 12:42:35 <Satellite> someone's selling one on craigslist used for $50, tempted to get it
Dec 12 12:42:39 <Satellite> it's in good condition
Dec 12 12:44:23 <panel> good price
Dec 12 12:45:11 <Satellite> HP VEER WEB OS 2.1.2
Dec 12 12:45:16 <Satellite> I can upgrade this no problem, right?
Dec 12 12:45:45 <panel> you can upgrade it at your own risk
Dec 12 12:46:13 <Satellite> is it not an official HP upgrade?
Dec 12 12:46:20 <panel> not for now
Dec 12 12:46:36 <Satellite> 2.1.2 is the latest official?
Dec 12 12:46:38 <panel> only few people was made unofficial update
Dec 12 12:46:40 <panel> yes
Dec 12 12:47:07 <panel> but we are waiting, like on Pre 2 was on friday launched update to 2.2.4
Dec 12 12:47:13 <panel> official
Dec 12 12:47:57 <Satellite> hmmm
Dec 12 12:48:33 <panel> when you need phone, it's good phone for $50
Dec 12 12:48:43 <panel> if you can get better, don't buy it
Dec 12 12:51:38 <Satellite> ok, thanks panel
Dec 12 12:54:11 <panel> np
Dec 12 12:55:06 <EricBlade1> panel, the longer we go without 2.2.4 here in the US the more I think that HP EU jumped the gun
Dec 12 12:56:04 <EricBlade1> and the guy from dev relations that we were quizzing about it was only giving us one and two word answers, and he's usually a lot more talkative, so i wonder if he was typing with one hand, and choking someone with the other. hehe
Dec 12 12:56:35 <panel> :)
Dec 12 12:56:50 <panel> I have ATT unlocked Veer, I'm on same boat :)
Dec 12 12:57:14 <EricBlade1> my pre2 was a stock unlocked model
Dec 12 12:57:46 <panel> same P102UEU unlocked
Dec 12 12:58:23 <panel> I'm thinkink abot another Veer and I will try make update
Dec 12 14:08:09 <panel> can somebody help with
Dec 12 14:08:10 <panel> Uncaught TypeError: Object #<an anonymous> has no method 'activeScene', app/assistants/app-assistant.js:66
Dec 12 14:08:11 <panel> ?
Dec 12 14:10:59 <fxspec06> yeah. you can't call this.controller.stageAssistant.activeScene()
Dec 12 14:11:22 <fxspec06> activeScene is not a method. it's either a property or nothing at all
Dec 12 14:11:32 <fxspec06> i think getActiveScene() is a method
Dec 12 14:12:15 <panel> oh yes
Dec 12 14:12:22 <panel> got it
Dec 12 14:12:22 <panel> var stageController = this.controller.getActiveStageController();           var currentScene = stageController.activeScene();
Dec 12 14:12:56 <fxspec06> you can also do this.controller.getActiveStageController().getActiveScene()
Dec 12 14:13:19 <panel> yes
Dec 12 14:13:19 <panel> same
Dec 12 14:13:20 <panel> :)
Dec 12 14:13:23 <panel> thank you
Dec 12 14:13:26 <fxspec06> although that is not the recommended way.. i cannot comprehend why
Dec 12 14:14:03 <fxspec06> is it really 'faster' to create temp vars to access object properties?
Dec 12 14:14:06 <fxspec06> in JA
Dec 12 14:14:10 <fxspec06> JS*
Dec 12 14:15:49 <panel> uh don't know, sometimes i'm using it like that way
Dec 12 14:15:49 <panel> getActiveStageController().getActiveScene()
Dec 12 14:16:04 <panel> but now I need it more than once
Dec 12 14:17:34 <panel> thanks again, I apreciate your help
Dec 12 15:27:55 <shodan45> anyone know an ETA on the webos source?
Dec 12 15:28:14 <shodan45> also... "honor thy NDA!"?
Dec 12 15:31:13 <summatusmentis> shodan45: no ETA has been announced on the code dump, I would assume a few months
Dec 12 15:31:22 <summatusmentis> NDA == non-disclosure agreement
Dec 12 15:31:37 <summatusmentis> some people are part of the Early Access program, and have agreed to an NDA
Dec 12 15:33:32 <shodan45> summatusmentis: ahh, didn't know about "early access"
Dec 12 15:33:49 <summatusmentis> it's part of their developer program
Dec 12 15:56:19 <shodan45> heh I guess early access will be going away now
Dec 12 15:57:22 <shodan45> anyone have plans or a wishlist of things to do / fix in webos, once the source is released?
Dec 12 15:58:19 <summatusmentis> I'd like to see T2S expanded to work between devices that don't have the coils
Dec 12 15:58:29 <summatusmentis> also, I want flickr synergy
Dec 12 15:59:12 <fxspec06> i don't see a reason EA would go away. jus sayin
Dec 12 16:01:48 <shodan45> I want to switch to v8 for JS engine
Dec 12 16:06:46 <summatusmentis> fxspec06: in theory, opensource means that all commits are visible
Dec 12 16:06:53 <summatusmentis> unless they go the android route
Dec 12 16:14:48 <shodan45> and make webkit do the separate-process thing, like chrome does (assuming it doesn't already....I can't tell xD )
Dec 12 16:15:44 <shodan45> oh and fix this lame audio problem I've been having :/
Dec 12 16:16:38 <shodan45> anyone know what causes the audio to sound like the sample rate went to crap?
Dec 12 16:19:34 <fxspec06> no clue shodan
Dec 12 16:19:49 <fxspec06> i find that if i leave apps running, like a bunch of cards open.. it happens
Dec 12 16:20:09 <fxspec06> i have a hunch it may be tied to a mojo app, or a pdk app... but i can't be sure
Dec 12 16:20:25 <fxspec06> it's a specific type of app left open that causes it. because it doesn't happen with all apps
Dec 12 16:25:21 <shodan45> fxspec06: only app I leave open is drPodder... which is an older app for phones
Dec 12 16:26:02 <shodan45> fxspec06: oh and I just reboot to fix it, you know of anything better?
Dec 12 16:26:02 <panel> bye
Dec 12 16:26:47 <fxspec06> i've never had it happen if i leave all my apps closed. i don't need to reboot to fix it, if i close my stuff it just goes away after a while. it could be a memory allocation issue
Dec 12 16:47:18 <shodan45> fxspec06: !! thanks... that does seem to fix it :D
Dec 12 17:01:54 <fxspec06> http://bigbazaardiscount.com/products/HP-TouchPad.html
Dec 12 17:06:18 <dwc-> ooh, I wanna buy a size: None
Dec 12 17:14:42 <fxspec06> lol i got two of them
Dec 12 17:14:46 <fxspec06> i hope orders go thru
Dec 12 17:16:00 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 12 17:16:28 <halfhalo> dundunDUN
Dec 12 17:16:59 <oilsworkn> they'll hold your money for 3 months while they cancel your order :)
Dec 12 17:17:41 <fxspec06> that's what i'm afraid of
Dec 12 17:18:06 <fxspec06> my order number is 270
Dec 12 17:19:25 <halfhalo> mine is -1
Dec 12 17:20:59 <oilsworkn> well you've already got a desk made out of unopened touchbad boxes, right?
Dec 12 17:21:28 <oilsworkn> s/touchbad/touchpad
Dec 12 17:21:49 <halfhalo> maybe
Dec 12 17:22:11 <singmajesty> Hello out there
Dec 12 17:22:34 <oilsworkn> hello in there
Dec 12 17:22:53 <cwayne> hello around there
Dec 12 17:23:23 * singmajesty cups his hands to say hello, to himself
Dec 12 17:24:17 <singmajesty> Always hard to tell how active an IRC channel is :)
Dec 12 17:25:08 <oilsworkn> some how i got 400 followers with 3 tweets in the last 2 months
Dec 12 17:25:19 <oilsworkn> im surprised they want to know what i have to say
Dec 12 17:25:25 <singmajesty> Well, that's cause you're cool.
Dec 12 17:25:28 <dwc-> they're hoping for wirc news
Dec 12 17:25:32 <singmajesty> I think I'm following you
Dec 12 17:25:41 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 12 17:25:46 <singmajesty> We're hanging on every word
Dec 12 17:25:51 <oilsworkn> hey, i pushed some changes to wirc-enyo yesterday!
Dec 12 17:27:09 <oilsworkn> just ignore the fact it was my first push in the last 4 months
Dec 12 17:27:29 <singmajesty> Well, that makes it significant
Dec 12 17:27:31 <singmajesty> Like when you tweet
Dec 12 17:27:38 <oilsworkn> heh
Dec 12 17:27:52 <chuqui> morning, y'all.
Dec 12 17:27:54 <oilsworkn> that makes me want to tweet a picture of my lunch today
Dec 12 17:27:57 <singmajesty> Morning Chuq
Dec 12 17:28:04 <oilsworkn> hey chuqui
Dec 12 17:28:06 <singmajesty> You should. We'll totally retweet
Dec 12 17:28:08 <singmajesty> Or favorite
Dec 12 17:28:19 <singmajesty> Because a tweet -- even of your lunch -- is *substantial*
Dec 12 17:28:29 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 12 17:28:31 <singmajesty> Speak less, and each word means so much more.
Dec 12 17:28:53 <singmajesty> And a picture is worth "a thousand words," of course, so we might die of shock :)
Dec 12 17:29:36 <singmajesty> "I know you asked me to write a 600 word essay, but instead I have provided this FAIL picture of a LOLcat
Dec 12 17:29:51 <oilsworkn> haha
Dec 12 17:29:52 <singmajesty> I am sure that you, teacher, will appreciate my drive to go above and beyond the requirements"
Dec 12 17:30:30 <singmajesty> https://a248.e.akamai.net/assets.github.com/img/1d3b90a08f2021bea780f7bbd7a345c1e7de0135/687474703a2f2f6963616e686173636865657a6275726765722e66696c65732e776f726470726573732e636f6d2f323030372f31302f3132383334373538373834343638373530306661696c2e6a7067
Dec 12 17:30:35 <oilsworkn> get grades based on the "d'awwww" level of my photos
Dec 12 17:31:33 <singmajesty> "I was a C student in math class, so I know that 1000 *is more* than 600. You're welcome"
Dec 12 17:32:45 <singmajesty> So I've been knocking around some ideas of things to do
Dec 12 17:32:56 <singmajesty> Was curious if you guys might let me know if this sounds interesting?
Dec 12 17:33:07 <singmajesty> So NME is already available for games, especially
Dec 12 17:33:35 <singmajesty> 3 - 7 times faster performance than Adobe AIR, and it works on Windows, Mac, Linux, webOS, iOS, Android, Flash and HTML5
Dec 12 17:33:51 <singmajesty> So that's one type of development
Dec 12 17:33:59 <singmajesty> But if you want to create an application, like you would in Enyo
Dec 12 17:34:25 <singmajesty> I have code completion for Enyo, but I haven't gotten a clear feel for whether people have been interested. That's one
Dec 12 17:34:40 <singmajesty> I could also have a device installer, so you could deploy an application to multiple platforms, like...
Dec 12 17:34:55 <singmajesty> buildjs test <project> ios -simulator
Dec 12 17:34:56 * oilsworkn has just been writing enyo, not any NME stuff
Dec 12 17:35:00 <singmajesty> buildjs test <project> webos -simulator
Dec 12 17:35:04 <singmajesty> buildjs test <project> webos
Dec 12 17:35:07 <singmajesty> buildjs test <project> android
Dec 12 17:35:11 <singmajesty> Stuff like that.
Dec 12 17:35:29 <singmajesty> That could work for any type of HTML/JS/CSS application... wouldn't have to be Enyo, or written with haxe JS
Dec 12 17:36:03 <singmajesty> But I'm not sure if that's cool, or if PhoneGap's make scripts are already good enough?
Dec 12 17:36:18 * oilsworkn has never looked at phonegaps stuff either
Dec 12 17:36:30 <singmajesty> The idea is that you would not have to write an appinfo.json file
Dec 12 17:36:52 <singmajesty> You make your web app, then pick the platform/device you want to target, and it automates the template/compile/install/run for you
Dec 12 17:39:49 <singmajesty> ...
Dec 12 17:39:53 <singmajesty> Okay, maybe I shouldn't :)
Dec 12 17:40:41 <oilsworkn> heh
Dec 12 17:40:57 <oilsworkn> i just dont do that kind of stuff so i don't really have any input
Dec 12 17:42:29 <singmajesty> I think... that's exactly it
Dec 12 17:42:52 <singmajesty> Everything I've done with code completion for Enyo, or thought about the device deploy...
Dec 12 17:42:56 <singmajesty> I don't really get any response
Dec 12 17:43:04 <singmajesty> I think, because it isn't really what people personally need
Dec 12 17:43:18 <singmajesty> Not that its bad, just not 100% relevant, and that's okay
Dec 12 17:43:59 <singmajesty> The first thing I feel when I try and use Javascript is that I miss code completion
Dec 12 17:44:08 <oilsworkn> heh
Dec 12 17:44:21 <oilsworkn> yeah
Dec 12 17:44:26 <singmajesty> But I have a history as a Flash developer, so I had Actionscript 1, which was a lot like Javascript, then I had Actionscript 3, with code completion, classes, etc.
Dec 12 17:44:49 <singmajesty> So I want "Javascript 3", I guess :)
Dec 12 17:44:57 <oilsworkn> i did some flash dev a long time ago, like flash 4 or whatever
Dec 12 17:45:06 <singmajesty> Ah, the good old days
Dec 12 17:45:19 <singmajesty> That's when Actionscript first came out
Dec 12 17:45:22 <oilsworkn> what was that website, flashkit?
Dec 12 17:45:34 <singmajesty> flashkit, praystation, werehere, kirupa
Dec 12 17:45:38 <singmajesty> osflash
Dec 12 17:47:23 <oilsworkn> that men in black 3 trailer makes me want to see it :/
Dec 12 17:48:47 <halfhalo> I know, right?
Dec 12 17:50:02 <singmajesty> Huh, interesting
Dec 12 17:50:20 <singmajesty> John Carter of Mars looks kind of interesting
Dec 12 17:52:09 <oilsworkn> time travel + aliens = always a winning combination
Dec 12 17:52:47 <singmajesty> hah, I guess that's the case with both movies :)
Dec 12 17:53:19 <oilsworkn> exactly
Dec 12 17:54:30 <singmajesty> Well, for anyone who is interested: http://www.haxejs.org/externs/enyo/
Dec 12 17:55:09 <oilsworkn> the code completion is cool
Dec 12 17:56:12 <oilsworkn> but it only works in that format, right?
Dec 12 17:57:24 <singmajesty> If you write { code: "like this" } you don't get completion
Dec 12 17:57:29 <singmajesty> It works, but you don't get completion
Dec 12 17:57:55 <singmajesty> Well, there might be some ways around that
Dec 12 17:58:12 <singmajesty> but you definitely get "new enyo." (with a pop-out of all available classes)
Dec 12 17:58:27 <singmajesty> Then when you've created an instance, you can access all its properties and methods, etc.
Dec 12 17:58:28 <oilsworkn> but what about later and you do this.$.mycomponentname.
Dec 12 17:59:26 <singmajesty> Depends on whether you want code completion
Dec 12 17:59:36 <singmajesty> Without code completion, you could do this:
Dec 12 17:59:59 <singmajesty> var instances = Reflect.field (this, "$");
Dec 12 18:00:07 <singmajesty> instances.mycomponentname
Dec 12 18:00:23 <singmajesty> (That's one of the cleaner ways ... unfortunately the dollar sign is not an allowed character in haxe)
Dec 12 18:00:35 <oilsworkn> ah
Dec 12 18:00:40 <singmajesty> Or, the code is set up so there are two definitions
Dec 12 18:00:49 <singmajesty> enyo.Button, and enyo.ButtonInstance, for example
Dec 12 18:01:02 <singmajesty> When you create a new enyo.Button, you really are creating { kind: "enyo.Button" }
Dec 12 18:01:11 <singmajesty> But it gives you code completion for all the config properties you could use
Dec 12 18:01:17 <singmajesty> You could type it, like:
Dec 12 18:01:27 <singmajesty> var button:ButtonInstance = instances.myButton;
Dec 12 18:01:40 <singmajesty> Then you would get completion based on the Button instance, so setCaption, getCaption, etc.
Dec 12 18:02:00 <oilsworkn> i see
Dec 12 18:02:34 <singmajesty> addClass, addContent, addRemoveClass, addStyles, applyStyle, broadcastMessage, createComponent, etc.
Dec 12 18:02:54 <singmajesty> Whereas the config would have things like
Dec 12 18:03:05 <singmajesty> allowDrag, allowHTML, caption, className, components, container, content, etc.
Dec 12 18:05:02 <singmajesty> It would be a bit nicer if Enyo had a little less "magic"
Dec 12 18:05:14 <oilsworkn> yeah
Dec 12 18:05:23 <singmajesty> But you get classes, interfaces, code completion, error checking, strict types, etc.
Dec 12 18:05:28 <oilsworkn> i often find myself diving into the component source to see what its really doing lol
Dec 12 18:07:11 <oilsworkn> only to find its not that component and i have to go deeper
Dec 12 18:07:17 <oilsworkn> just like that movie
Dec 12 18:07:46 <singmajesty> It was interesting writing "extern" classes for Enyo...
Dec 12 18:08:04 <singmajesty> Which basically means, you write a stub class that tells the compiler that something will exist at runtime, through another JS file
Dec 12 18:08:22 <singmajesty> Actually figuring out what defines which property, and how the inheritance structure works
Dec 12 18:08:39 <singmajesty> Interesting to see what extends enyo.Component, and what extends something you might not expect
Dec 12 18:09:52 <oilsworkn> yeah
Dec 12 18:15:16 <singmajesty> Slow day today
Dec 12 18:57:38 * Mousey hi5's MuddyFire 
Dec 12 20:00:37 <PaNeL> good evening gentlemen
Dec 12 20:04:42 <EricBlade> hi
Dec 12 20:06:27 <zer0her0> PaNeL, what about the ladies and the bastards?
Dec 12 20:09:28 <akanster> yay! reinstalled sdk
Dec 12 20:12:32 <zer0her0> i know this has been prob asked a thousand times, any ETA and/or hints on the source drop? or what license?
Dec 12 20:13:54 <PaNeL> zer0her0: sorry I don't understand :)
Dec 12 20:14:08 <zer0her0> PaNeL, just being a jerk.
Dec 12 20:16:26 <PaNeL> :)
Dec 12 20:17:26 <akanster> http://www.youhavedownloaded.com/
Dec 12 20:52:33 <EricBlade> well, unsurprisingly, Pivot is gone, but has been replaced with a nice little sheet of promos and codes and sales
Dec 12 20:56:50 <EricBlade> wow, what do i need a weather program preloaded with weather from all over europe..
Dec 12 20:57:15 <Darkmagister> hi all, i've a question, with the veer i need the special usb cable to connect it to the pc or there are any other ways ?
Dec 12 21:07:32 <PaNeL> Darkmagister: yes veer have special magnetic connector
Dec 12 21:07:58 <Darkmagister> and it's the only way to cennect it directly to the pc ?
Dec 12 21:11:32 <akanster`> Darkmagister: http://www.webosnation.com/hands-on-hp-veer-s-ridiculous-headphone-adapter-and-clever-charging-plug
Dec 12 21:11:49 <EricBlade> i may be a little biased, but damn i love GVoice
Dec 12 21:12:49 <Darkmagister> yes yes i know other way to connect via wifi, i want to be sure that there are no way to have veer connected via usb without the adaptor
Dec 12 21:12:54 <Darkmagister> thanks all
Dec 12 21:15:49 <oilsworkn> you could cut the end off a usb cable and hot-glue it to the connectors on the side? lol
Dec 12 21:21:21 <Darkmagister> oilsworkn lool no i prefer ssh or web server
Dec 12 21:51:00 <PaNeL> what's new on the other side of ocean?
Dec 12 22:07:59 <oilsworkn> which side is the other side?
Dec 12 22:09:07 <Tibfib_> the weird side
Dec 12 22:14:59 <singmajesty2> Antarctica
Dec 12 22:15:12 <oilsworkn> which side is the weird side?
Dec 12 22:15:18 <singmajesty2> Brazil
Dec 12 22:15:45 <singmajesty2> Saturn
Dec 12 22:16:32 * akanster wants to buy world maps from singmajesty2 
Dec 12 22:17:13 * singmajesty2 wants to buy the same maps
Dec 12 22:17:19 <Brybry> is there a good way to trick the virtual keyboard to stay up in a browser (for a given site that you have control of)? So far the only thing I've gotten to work is a form text input with transparency for border/background/color
Dec 12 22:21:05 <akanster> what's the most an app can cost?
Dec 12 22:21:42 <halfhalo> all of it.
Dec 12 22:21:55 <rwhitby> akanster: one billion dollars
Dec 12 22:22:39 <akanster> heh
Dec 12 22:22:51 <akanster> it's time for some app catalog shenanigans
Dec 12 22:24:14 <rwhitby> someone has already done the "This App Does Nothing" for $50
Dec 12 22:24:27 <akanster> dammit!
Dec 12 22:24:46 <akanster> 5 stars too
Dec 12 22:25:32 <Shadyman> What does it do?
Dec 12 22:25:42 <akanster> "a revolutionary new application that allows user to take a break from the heavy stress of full-featured applications" -- wow
Dec 12 22:26:01 <Brybry> hmm, I guess height/width:0 with negative zindex works too
Dec 12 22:26:13 <singmajesty2> Well, the guy who made "Darth Vader Breathing" made $30,000 in the hot apps competition
Dec 12 22:26:29 <singmajesty2> Sometimes "being cheap" wins
Dec 12 22:26:37 <singmajesty2> But at least we all have our dignity
Dec 12 22:26:41 <akanster> haha
Dec 12 22:26:59 <dawm> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/12/technology/personaltech/amazons-fire-some-say-may-become-the-edsel-of-tablets.html?_r=1
Dec 12 22:27:07 <dawm> kindle fire fail?
Dec 12 22:27:07 <akanster> hey dawm
Dec 12 22:29:18 <Tibfib_> akanster: lolz
Dec 12 22:30:16 <EricBlade> ok, so, now i'm back to trying to figure out how the hell to get something to show up -on top of- a ProgressBarItem instead of under it's progress indicator.  any ideas ?
Dec 12 22:30:32 <singmajesty2> Change the z-index?
Dec 12 22:30:45 <oilsworkn> components: [] ?
Dec 12 22:30:50 <EricBlade> z-index: 10000 didn't do it
Dec 12 22:30:57 <oilsworkn> (dont those go inside/above the bar?)
Dec 12 22:31:03 <singmajesty2> 10,000,000?
Dec 12 22:31:30 <Tibfib_> EricBlade: you must go over 9000
Dec 12 22:31:32 <EricBlade> i see it works in the Themes Onyx demo, but I can't get it to work outside of that, and I don't see what Themes is doing
Dec 12 22:31:35 <Tibfib_> way over
Dec 12 22:32:00 <akanster> in the words of Jay-Z, "more 0s than you know exist!"
Dec 12 22:33:50 <EricBlade> 10000000 is a no go
Dec 12 22:33:57 <singmajesty2> So I was trying to get a feel for whether people were interested in ...
Dec 12 22:34:01 <singmajesty2> A.) Enyo code completion
Dec 12 22:34:18 <singmajesty2> B.) Device installer (install to Android, iOS, webOS, Chrome App, Opera Widget, etc)
Dec 12 22:34:25 <singmajesty2> Or neither
Dec 12 22:34:52 <Tibfib_> Okay, any ideas here? http://pastebin.com/5cFLKjj1. It fails on step 4: https://gimmebar.com/api/v0#4--Exchange-the-authorization-token-for-an-access-token-
Dec 12 22:34:54 <singmajesty2> Judging whether I should finish those ideas up, or keep working on NME
Dec 12 22:35:18 <akanster> how would the device installer work?
Dec 12 22:35:25 <EricBlade> well, sing, A is probably highly dependent on what people are using as an environment / editor ... B would be useful to everyone
Dec 12 22:35:25 <Tibfib_> with :"Incorrect flow: auth token was created with a request token"
Dec 12 22:35:28 <singmajesty2> You'd have a simple project file...
Dec 12 22:35:38 <singmajesty2> Specify the file path, app name, company name, etc.
Dec 12 22:35:41 <singmajesty2> Then something like...
Dec 12 22:35:49 <singmajesty2> buildjs test project.jsml webos
Dec 12 22:35:53 * oilsworkn thinks tibfib should just ask funkatron heh
Dec 12 22:35:54 <singmajesty2> And it would build, install, run on your phone
Dec 12 22:36:01 <Tibfib_> oilsworkn: he's not here
Dec 12 22:36:03 <singmajesty2> buildjs test project.jsml webos -emulator
Dec 12 22:36:10 <singmajesty2> android/ios/etc
Dec 12 22:36:21 <singmajesty2> Similar to the build process for NME
Dec 12 22:37:07 <singmajesty2> A.) works best with FlashDevelop, but also works with Sublime Text and TextEdit
Dec 12 22:37:33 * oilsworkn has started using sublime text 2 for lots of stuff
Dec 12 22:37:38 <singmajesty2> The only catch on code completion is that { objects: "like this" } don't get completion
Dec 12 22:37:54 <singmajesty2> but var button = new Button (); button.caption = "This works just fine";
Dec 12 22:38:22 <oilsworkn> why can't it work for objects like that?
Dec 12 22:38:36 <singmajesty2> If you did...
Dec 12 22:38:50 <singmajesty2> var object:Button = { caption: "sldfjlkfj" } it might be possible to work
Dec 12 22:39:03 <singmajesty2> In this case, I'm explicitly giving the generic object a type
Dec 12 22:39:13 <singmajesty2> Otherwise, the compiler has no idea what type of object you are defining
Dec 12 22:39:18 <singmajesty2> if you do...
Dec 12 22:39:22 <singmajesty2> var button = new Button ();
Dec 12 22:39:31 <singmajesty2> It knows it is a button, and can give you all the button related completion
Dec 12 22:40:08 <singmajesty2> You can still write generic objects { like: "this" } but you don't get the same assistance while you are programming
Dec 12 22:40:39 <akanster> and { "like": "this" }
Dec 12 22:40:52 <singmajesty2> Yep :)
Dec 12 22:40:57 <akanster> some times json makes me want to kick something
Dec 12 22:42:49 <singmajesty2> You can write objects JSON style without completion, or expand a bit and get full completion (or mix-and-match)
Dec 12 22:42:52 <singmajesty2> Here's an example:
Dec 12 22:42:53 <singmajesty2> http://pastie.org/3007645
Dec 12 22:43:13 <singmajesty2> The completion looks like this:
Dec 12 22:43:14 <singmajesty2> http://www.haxejs.org/externs/enyo
Dec 12 22:43:58 <singmajesty2> So, I'm just trying to get a gauge if this is interesting to people, if I should invest in it more
Dec 12 22:46:20 <EricBlade> i can't speak for the majority, but i use Komodo, and I think most other people that I talk to use Eclipse
Dec 12 22:46:42 <akanster> Notepad++ has some fans here too
Dec 12 22:47:18 <singmajesty2> Haven't tried it myself, but it looks like there are some plugins
Dec 12 22:47:19 <singmajesty2> http://haxe.org/com/ide/komodo/komodo_plugin_for_haxe
Dec 12 22:47:31 <singmajesty2> http://haxe.org/com/ide/eclipse
Dec 12 22:47:40 <singmajesty2> http://haxe.org/com/ide/notepad_plus
Dec 12 22:47:46 <oilsworkn> i switched to sublime text 2 (can't live without multi-select/type) but still use eclipse for packaging/installing/running/logging
Dec 12 22:47:51 <singmajesty2> Not sure if they are highlighting or code completion
Dec 12 22:47:57 <singmajesty2> Sublime Text 2 does have code completion
Dec 12 22:48:05 * EricBlade hasn't yet encountered anyone that uses haxE except sing :)
Dec 12 22:48:51 <singmajesty2> http://www.haxenme.org/
Dec 12 22:49:08 <oilsworkn> select some text then ctrl+d a few times, then type, awesome
Dec 12 22:49:26 <singmajesty2> Okay, so A.) is interesting, but not something anyone seems to be looking for
Dec 12 22:49:43 <singmajesty2> B.) is something that would be worthwhile, or similarly a nice idea, but not needed?
Dec 12 22:50:37 <EricBlade> dependso n how difficult it is otherwise to get our Enyo apps to other platforms
Dec 12 22:51:18 <EricBlade> if I can do something as simple as "palm-run ." to get my apps up on my iPod, I will happily send you my first born.
Dec 12 22:51:40 <singmajesty2> That is exactly what it would do
Dec 12 22:51:40 <akanster> oilsworkn: ctrl+d duplicates the current line, right
Dec 12 22:51:45 <singmajesty2> It would be a sort of universal appinfo file
Dec 12 22:51:49 <EricBlade> ...she's 10, and comes with her very own 32gig TouchPad.
Dec 12 22:51:58 <singmajesty2> I already have this for NME
Dec 12 22:52:00 <oilsworkn> akanster: no, it does multi-select
Dec 12 22:52:15 <singmajesty2> nme test MyProject.nmml ios -simulator will build, install and run in the iOS simulator
Dec 12 22:52:23 <oilsworkn> akanster: lets say you have function test (variable) {
Dec 12 22:52:24 <akanster> ah, duplicates in notepad++
Dec 12 22:52:31 <singmajesty2> nme test MyProject.nmml ios -simulator -ipad to use the iPad simulator instead of the iPhone simulator
Dec 12 22:52:40 <oilsworkn> and you use variable 20 times in teh function
Dec 12 22:52:48 <singmajesty2> nme update MyProject.nmml ios will generate an XCode project you can use to install to a device
Dec 12 22:53:00 <singmajesty2> (XCode doesn't provide a way to install to a device from the terminal only, it seems)
Dec 12 22:53:07 <oilsworkn> when you select it then hit ctrl+d each time you hit it it selects them down the function
Dec 12 22:53:13 <singmajesty2> But webOS and Android can go straight from the terminal to a device
Dec 12 22:53:21 <oilsworkn> then when you delete and start typing, it delets and types in each spot you selected
Dec 12 22:53:41 <akanster> oilsworkn: sweet!
Dec 12 22:53:46 <oilsworkn> yeah
Dec 12 22:53:52 <oilsworkn> i use that A LOT
Dec 12 22:54:01 <singmajesty2> Oh, I usually do Ctrl + H in FlashDevelop
Dec 12 22:54:08 <singmajesty2> Double-click the word, then type in the replace field
Dec 12 22:54:14 <akanster> yeah, i do ctrl + h
Dec 12 22:54:22 <akanster> and then alt+a
Dec 12 22:54:26 <akanster> to replace all
Dec 12 22:54:37 <oilsworkn> but i dont want to replace all
Dec 12 22:54:46 <oilsworkn> just the next 4 instances
Dec 12 22:54:58 <oilsworkn> its really simple
Dec 12 22:55:03 <singmajesty2> Makes sense
Dec 12 22:55:13 <singmajesty2> All, that explains why Ctrl+D didn't work like I expected in Sublime
Dec 12 22:55:22 <singmajesty2> In FlashDevelop, Ctrl+D duplicates the current line
Dec 12 22:55:26 <oilsworkn> it works more awesomely!
Dec 12 22:55:34 <oilsworkn> heh
Dec 12 22:55:41 <singmajesty2> Which is actually pretty great :)
Dec 12 22:56:10 <oilsworkn> ctrl+shift+d dups the line in sublimetext2
Dec 12 22:56:21 <singmajesty2> So is anyone else interested in option B.) to install to devices?
Dec 12 22:56:42 <singmajesty2> Could be nice if Enyo is open-sourced soon
Dec 12 22:56:54 * oilsworkn is probably weird in that he doesn't care about other devices
Dec 12 22:57:04 <singmajesty2> :)
Dec 12 22:57:08 <singmajesty2> That's the spirit!
Dec 12 22:57:18 <akanster> haha
Dec 12 22:57:42 <akanster> oil is drunk on the webOS koolaid.
Dec 12 22:59:18 <oilsworkn> very
Dec 12 23:01:38 <trenchant> open source eh
Dec 12 23:01:40 <trenchant> :D
Dec 12 23:02:04 <EricBlade> i want to be able to develop on my nice awesome webos system, and sell it to anyone
Dec 12 23:02:12 <EricBlade> regardless of if their operating system is crap or not :)
Dec 12 23:02:41 <singmajesty2> I have begun to approach app development like I have approached web development
Dec 12 23:02:44 <EricBlade> but i really want to be able to put lists of data on top of progress bar items :(
Dec 12 23:02:49 <singmajesty2> I want to develop using my favorite browser
Dec 12 23:03:06 <singmajesty2> Then, with a few checks, deploy to 95%+ of other browsers
Dec 12 23:03:18 <singmajesty2> I like Opera, a lot of people don't prefer it as their favorite
Dec 12 23:03:32 <singmajesty2> But that's okay. I've used Flash or standard HTML/JS/CSS so its worked
Dec 12 23:03:33 <EricBlade> Opera is awesome, although the current Alpha is sllllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Dec 12 23:03:50 <singmajesty2> In the same way, I've been working with NME for game development
Dec 12 23:03:56 <Tibfib_> chrome chrome chrome
Dec 12 23:04:14 <singmajesty2> Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android, webOS, Flash and HTML5, and it out-performs Corona and AIR by 3 - 7 times
Dec 12 23:04:32 <singmajesty2> Then that's what had me thinking about using the same command-line tools for JS apps
Dec 12 23:04:50 <singmajesty2> So you can deploy to multiple platforms without having to think much about the Android SDK or XCode
Dec 12 23:04:58 <akanster> singmajesty2: do you have slowdowns or stuttering with Flash on Opera?
Dec 12 23:05:10 <singmajesty2> Not that I'm aware of
Dec 12 23:05:18 <singmajesty2> I'm on Windows, though
Dec 12 23:05:23 <akanster> the last update really screwed something up for me
Dec 12 23:05:24 <singmajesty2> Linux and Windows run Flash, great
Dec 12 23:05:27 <akanster> win7 here
Dec 12 23:05:37 <singmajesty2> But seeing it run on my wife's Mac made me realize how people thought Flash was bad
Dec 12 23:05:43 <oilsworkn> tibfib++
Dec 12 23:05:51 <singmajesty2> Opera 11.60, or 12.00?
Dec 12 23:06:10 <akanster> 11.60
Dec 12 23:06:22 <singmajesty2> Maybe it is the new Flash Player?
Dec 12 23:06:30 <singmajesty2> (or lack of new Flash Player?)
Dec 12 23:07:00 <akanster> maybe... i'll look into it again.
Dec 12 23:07:37 <akanster> also best thing about Opera is cycling through images in a page with fast forward
Dec 12 23:08:00 <singmajesty2> I like Opera Mail a lot
Dec 12 23:08:08 <singmajesty2> IRC integration is nice ;)
Dec 12 23:08:22 <singmajesty2> And a lot of other little luxuries
Dec 12 23:09:39 <akanster> Tibfib_: WHY ARE YOUS IGNORING ME?1
Dec 12 23:09:46 <akanster> ;)
Dec 12 23:09:52 <Tibfib_> inorite
Dec 12 23:09:54 <Tibfib_> what the heck
Dec 12 23:09:58 <akanster> heh
Dec 12 23:10:23 <akanster> heck of a way to call someone out
Dec 12 23:10:35 <Tibfib> I KNOW I'VE NEVER CONTACTED YOU OR ASKED YOU BUT WHY ARE YOU IGNORING ME????
Dec 12 23:10:51 <oilsworkn> because
Dec 12 23:11:39 <Tibfib> because of you, I am suspending the update. Cheers!
Dec 12 23:11:42 <Tibfib> </kids>
Dec 12 23:12:21 <Tibfib> oh that's NuttyBunny
Dec 12 23:13:23 <oilsworkn> because of Tibfib is why enyo-wirc isn't done yet...
Dec 12 23:13:54 <Tibfib> perfectly logical
Dec 12 23:16:04 <singmajesty2> https://twitter.com/#!/singmajesty/status/146366338493984770
Dec 12 23:16:06 * oilsworkn added awesome 3d transforms to parts of enyo-wirc only to find they dont work on device :/
Dec 12 23:16:13 <oilsworkn> look awesome in chrome though
Dec 12 23:16:49 <EricBlade> oilsworkn: 3d xforms seem to work on touchpad
Dec 12 23:17:07 <oilsworkn> well, it worked, but perspective didn't
Dec 12 23:17:08 <Tibfib> oilsworkn: add to catalog description "Use in chrome for full experience"
Dec 12 23:17:19 <oilsworkn> so the rotate was "flat" not "awesome"
Dec 12 23:17:31 <Tibfib> singmajesty2: haha
Dec 12 23:18:05 <singmajesty2> The other day they were pretending to fetch yellow taffeta and cherry-colored twist to sew wedding clothes for the tailer of Gloucester
Dec 12 23:18:20 <singmajesty2> Scurrying away to their mouse hole
Dec 12 23:18:38 <singmajesty2> It has been funny to hear them in the other room today (wrapped up in a blanket)
Dec 12 23:18:45 <singmajesty2> Meow! Help! Meow!
Dec 12 23:19:06 <oilsworkn> http://css3.bradshawenterprises.com/flip/
Dec 12 23:19:08 <Tibfib> hahah, what are their ages?
Dec 12 23:19:14 <singmajesty2> 3 and 5
Dec 12 23:19:18 <oilsworkn> i added a flip like that to my color picker, but it looked like garbage on device
Dec 12 23:19:57 <singmajesty2> People have all kinds of bad things to say about Flash Player...
Dec 12 23:20:10 <singmajesty2> But at least you could run the same effect in (practically) any browser
Dec 12 23:20:18 <singmajesty2> Mobile changes things, but still :)
Dec 12 23:20:36 <singmajesty2> I'm surprised how many scripts are WebKit only
Dec 12 23:20:47 <akanster> I hate that
Dec 12 23:20:48 <EricBlade> well maybe in the not too distance future we can get our mobile webkits on our palms and touchpads updated
Dec 12 23:21:12 <oilsworkn> we can only hope
Dec 12 23:21:13 <singmajesty2> That would be nice
Dec 12 23:21:16 * halfhalo is using transforms to make a web form all shiny
Dec 12 23:21:38 * oilsworkn is using knifes to stab halfhalo and make him all bloody
Dec 12 23:21:58 <akanster> The holidays bring out the best in us!
Dec 12 23:22:08 <halfhalo> ow
Dec 12 23:22:41 <singmajesty2> I went to FITC (I know this is a little off topic), and someone spoke on Corona
Dec 12 23:22:58 <singmajesty2> They showed an iPhone 4 maxing out on 250 objects, at 27-28 FPS
Dec 12 23:23:28 <singmajesty2> Then the next person got up, showed less impressive demos of Adobe AIR running on a Playbook, and quoted key Adobe evangelists who said, "rule of thumb -- never expect to have 500 of anything"
Dec 12 23:23:32 <singmajesty2> in regards to performance
Dec 12 23:23:34 <singmajesty2> NME?
Dec 12 23:23:43 <singmajesty2> 8000 bunnies in BunnyMark, at 30 FPS, on a TouchPad
Dec 12 23:24:01 <singmajesty2> 4750 on an iPhone
Dec 12 23:24:09 <oilsworkn> bunnymark, heh
Dec 12 23:24:25 <singmajesty2> BunnyMark in AIR was getting 600 bunnies on Android
Dec 12 23:25:31 <singmajesty2> http://twitpic.com/7fbvos
Dec 12 23:25:41 <singmajesty2> Yeah, I think BunnyMark is a cute benchmark :)
Dec 12 23:25:41 <oilsworkn> that should be on the box "8000 bunnies in BunnyMark"
Dec 12 23:26:00 <singmajesty2> Absolutely
Dec 12 23:26:20 <singmajesty2> So I've been trying to decide what I'd want to do for an application...
Dec 12 23:26:28 <singmajesty2> But for games, I've been very happy with NME
Dec 12 23:26:58 * singmajesty2 sees 8000 bunnies in BunnyMark
Dec 12 23:30:41 <akanster> so, open source Enyo... are we talking weeks or months?
Dec 12 23:31:01 <EricBlade> oh, we already have it already, it's available for everyone but akanster
Dec 12 23:31:22 <EricBlade> :)
Dec 12 23:31:49 <singmajesty2> I would like to see it soon, but I am not sure how long it will be
Dec 12 23:32:00 <oilsworkn> matt was saying asap
Dec 12 23:32:18 * EricBlade hopes that this Enyo 1.1 has lots of good stuff :D
Dec 12 23:32:27 <singmajesty2> It will take time to open-source webOS
Dec 12 23:32:35 <Tibfib> I hope enyo licensing is faster
Dec 12 23:32:36 <singmajesty2> Enyo should be a lot easier
Dec 12 23:32:42 <oilsworkn> yeah
Dec 12 23:32:57 <oilsworkn> since according to matt, it was written with opensourcing it in the future in mind
Dec 12 23:33:03 * EricBlade wonders if we'll have an open-source webOS before he gets 2.2.4 on his pre2 or 3.0.5 on his touchpad
Dec 12 23:33:13 <oilsworkn> probably not
Dec 12 23:33:23 <Tibfib> probably not
Dec 12 23:33:35 <oilsworkn> once 224 doctor drops rwhitby will make it work for those who aren't getting it ota
Dec 12 23:33:41 <oilsworkn> L)
Dec 12 23:33:44 <oilsworkn> :) *
Dec 12 23:33:55 <EricBlade> i know i'm just being silly because i'm annoyed by not getting 224 OTA yet like the euros did
Dec 12 23:34:37 <rwhitby> EricBlade: apparently it was a "beta" release
Dec 12 23:34:45 <Tibfib> lolz
Dec 12 23:35:16 <rwhitby> akanster: enyo I would say 1 to 2 months. the rest of webOS I would say 3+
Dec 12 23:36:02 <EricBlade> singmajesty2: are we going to have to go through the monstrous hoops required for app signing and junk with iOS, just to get something to preview on device?
Dec 12 23:40:26 <singmajesty2> For webOS, or iOS?
Dec 12 23:40:34 <singmajesty2> Ah, okay, okay
Dec 12 23:40:44 <singmajesty2> Yes, there's no way we can really change the way Apple has decided to run their tools
Dec 12 23:40:59 <singmajesty2> If you purchase XCode, you can run in the iPhone or iPad simulator
Dec 12 23:41:09 <EricBlade> so what does that process end up looking like, to get it on device?
Dec 12 23:41:27 <singmajesty2> Otherwise, you need to pay $100 a year for a membership account, so that XCode can retrieve code signing certificates to allow an install on a device
Dec 12 23:41:36 <singmajesty2> A.) Install XCode
Dec 12 23:41:37 <balrog> Xcode should be free now
Dec 12 23:41:46 <balrog> it was $5 until Lion was released
Dec 12 23:41:49 <singmajesty2> Ah
Dec 12 23:41:56 <singmajesty2> So A.) Install XCode on a Mac
Dec 12 23:42:01 <balrog> probably because of that accounting rule :/
Dec 12 23:42:10 <singmajesty2> B.) Run the tool to install to iPhone or iPad Simulator
Dec 12 23:42:10 <EricBlade> i know with unreal, we have to setup a dev account, install a certificate and a provision into unreal, which it will load into the iphone ipk when it creates it, and then it has a command line tool that ships the ipk to the device via itunes
Dec 12 23:42:12 <singmajesty2> or...
Dec 12 23:42:25 <singmajesty2> B.) Sign up for a developer account, then use XCode to get provisioning
Dec 12 23:42:31 <singmajesty2> C.) Use the tool to generate an XCode project
Dec 12 23:42:44 <singmajesty2> D.) When the project opens, select "run" for the device
Dec 12 23:42:58 <EricBlade> ok, assume windows here.  will we end up being able to do that?
Dec 12 23:42:59 <singmajesty2> Or, if you have a way to copy apps to your device, jailbroken or using iTunes...
Dec 12 23:43:14 <balrog> singmajesty2: they made it a lot easier, Xcode does the provisioning for you now
Dec 12 23:43:14 <singmajesty2> you can build from a command-line, then copy to the device
Dec 12 23:43:31 <singmajesty2> Right, that's what I said -- use XCode to get provisioning
Dec 12 23:43:43 <singmajesty2> Otherwise it might be very difficult to get working (I had that problem)
Dec 12 23:43:51 <EricBlade> so, effectively we just need to deal with apple's junk on their dev portal, but we'll be able to supply the certificate and provision to some sort of packaging tool that will package it for ios?
Dec 12 23:44:01 <singmajesty2> Actually, this could be different than NME, potentially
Dec 12 23:44:06 <balrog> EricBlade: the main thing you have to do on the dev portal is add device UUIDs
Dec 12 23:44:15 <singmajesty2> NME uses the native C compiler toolchain for iOS, Android, webOS, Windows, Mac and Linux
Dec 12 23:44:16 <balrog> what are you planning to do? in-house testing or wider distribution?
Dec 12 23:44:27 <singmajesty2> Which means you need to be on a Mac, because you need the compiler
Dec 12 23:44:43 <singmajesty2> Theoretically, it may be possible, since a web app is much simpler, to do some kind of bytecode injection
Dec 12 23:44:53 <EricBlade> just for getting items onto my own device.  but also for packaging.
Dec 12 23:45:02 <singmajesty2> However, I have heard from developers who use Adobe AIR on Windows to get to an iPhone that the process is not pretty
Dec 12 23:45:19 <EricBlade> well, what unreal does, is they basically have a pre-compiled version of the engine for iOS, which they then package along with all the various engine data that you supply for your game
Dec 12 23:46:05 <EricBlade> so.. how would an Enyo app run on iOS? via phonegap? or something?
Dec 12 23:46:46 <balrog> EricBlade: you're run it with webkit
Dec 12 23:46:59 <balrog> in a webview probably
Dec 12 23:47:12 <balrog> imho it's ideal as an addition to cocoa
Dec 12 23:47:19 <balrog> not as a replacement
Dec 12 23:48:06 <singmajesty2> We could decide what makes the most sense
Dec 12 23:48:08 <EricBlade> maybe i'll wait till someone else has done it before i attempt to figure out how it works
Dec 12 23:48:15 <singmajesty2> I had figured that PhoneGap might be the best way to go
Dec 12 23:48:40 <singmajesty2> Having a single cross-platform API is nice
Dec 12 23:48:48 <singmajesty2> ...but using make on Windows is not
Dec 12 23:49:08 <EricBlade> well on the bright side, my next contract will be buying me a mac
Dec 12 23:49:13 <EricBlade> but that doesn't mean i want to use it
Dec 12 23:49:34 <balrog> ehh, Macs are awesome for dev
Dec 12 23:49:43 <rwhitby> balrog: +1
Dec 12 23:49:44 <balrog> a lot less closed than Windows, a lot more usable than Linux
Dec 12 23:49:45 <EricBlade> every Mac I've ever touched has crashed almsot instantly
Dec 12 23:49:55 <balrog> how old were they?
Dec 12 23:49:57 <Tibfib> that's impressive
Dec 12 23:50:02 <singmajesty2> You can get a used one for pretty cheap
Dec 12 23:50:12 <EricBlade> i even crashed a whole roomful of System 7 macs once
Dec 12 23:50:13 <singmajesty2> I got a Macbook for $600
Dec 12 23:50:14 <balrog> yeah just make sure it's a core 2 duo or later
Dec 12 23:50:20 <balrog> and keep away from nVidia MBPs
Dec 12 23:50:26 <balrog> specifically nVidia 8600M
Dec 12 23:50:39 <singmajesty2> But there were Mac minis for cheaper
Dec 12 23:50:44 <singmajesty2> craigslist
Dec 12 23:50:58 <EricBlade> well, the first one was a Mac Classic, the second one was probably a System 6 or so, then the System 7 lab crash .. and then I didn't touch another one until a fwe months ago when I was asked to do something on a friend's macbook
Dec 12 23:51:17 <singmajesty2> lol
Dec 12 23:51:23 <singmajesty2> Sorry, Macs less closed than Windows?
Dec 12 23:51:41 <singmajesty2> Sorry, I don't want to start a flame war, but I wouldn't buy a Mac to have a computer that feels open
Dec 12 23:51:43 <balrog> EricBlade: lol back in the day… but OS X is Unix
Dec 12 23:51:44 <balrog> singmajesty2: I'd say so
Dec 12 23:51:44 <balrog> I'm *NOT* talking about iOS here
Dec 12 23:51:59 <EricBlade> i will unfortunately be needing that Mac to build Unreal for iOS. :(
Dec 12 23:52:04 <balrog> singmajesty2: I can dig into the internals and play around with it without fear of breaking things. And I can get source for some stuff, too
Dec 12 23:52:10 <balrog> try that with Windows.
Dec 12 23:52:14 <EricBlade> but maybe in my spare time, I can figure out how to build Unreal for webOS ... *evil grin*
Dec 12 23:52:19 <singmajesty2> You can install Linux on Windows much more easily
Dec 12 23:52:28 <singmajesty2> You can install your own window manager, ala Litestep
Dec 12 23:52:39 <balrog> yeah, but I need certain proprietary software for certain things, like Adobe products
Dec 12 23:52:49 <singmajesty2> You don't have to go to Microsoft to compile C/C++
Dec 12 23:52:51 <oilsworkn> virtualbox
Dec 12 23:52:53 <balrog> I know that much
Dec 12 23:52:59 <balrog> oilsworkn: performance sucks
Dec 12 23:53:13 <oilsworkn> new computer
Dec 12 23:53:14 <balrog> oh I use linux, mostly for shell machines
Dec 12 23:53:19 <Tibfib> FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
Dec 12 23:53:30 <balrog> also build quality … so many "pc" laptops fall apart :[
Dec 12 23:53:48 <singmajesty2> I've owned two Sony laptops that lasted 6 years each
Dec 12 23:54:03 <singmajesty2> My wife's Macbook Pro has gone through two batteries, one of which exploded, three AC adapters, each of which were expensive
Dec 12 23:54:13 <singmajesty2> And it feels like it is going to set on fire if you try and play any video with it
Dec 12 23:54:15 <oilsworkn> i've owned a single hp laptop i fished out of a dumpster and repaired
Dec 12 23:54:23 <singmajesty2> Even the new Macbook Pro gets astonishingly hot :)
Dec 12 23:54:31 <singmajesty2> But..
Dec 12 23:54:37 <singmajesty2> Let me just step back and say...
Dec 12 23:54:49 <singmajesty2> I have a 2010 Macbook Pro
Dec 12 23:54:54 <singmajesty2> I've tried to like it, but I don't prefer it
Dec 12 23:55:01 <singmajesty2> I honestly am happiest with my desktop
Dec 12 23:55:01 <Tibfib> my 2011 air doesn't get hot.
Dec 12 23:55:11 <singmajesty2> But, I built it, so that could be part of it
Dec 12 23:55:21 <singmajesty2> I love how much I can improve a desktop for $100
Dec 12 23:55:35 <singmajesty2> $300 you can buy a new motherboard, CPU and RAM ... instant new computer
Dec 12 23:55:36 <Tibfib> my crappy hp laptop got mega hot… but that was a cheapo one
Dec 12 23:55:46 <singmajesty2> So, for a laptop, I think there's an argument for a Mac vs. a PC
Dec 12 23:55:57 <oilsworkn> my laptop mainly sits atop my tv in the living room now
Dec 12 23:56:06 <balrog> meh for a desktop I'd build and run triple boot
Dec 12 23:56:06 <singmajesty2> But for a desktop, I believe that it is a much better deal to not purchase an Apple product
Dec 12 23:56:20 <singmajesty2> I would have OS X installed if Apple didn't disallow it in their EULA
Dec 12 23:56:31 <balrog> singmajesty2: I disagree. If you want a good price for a computer and an IPS monitor, you can't really beat the pricing of the iMacs
Dec 12 23:56:32 <balrog> :///
Dec 12 23:56:34 <balrog> :/ *
Dec 12 23:56:43 <balrog> standalone IPS displays (Dell makes them) are so expensive
Dec 12 23:56:45 <oilsworkn> who knows without steve maybe they'll go back to letting others install osx
Dec 12 23:56:51 <Hendikins> I do use an Apple monitor, but their OS shits me to tears.
Dec 12 23:56:54 <balrog> oilsworkn: would end up with driver hell
Dec 12 23:57:06 <oilsworkn> wasn't that one of the first things he did when returning? kill the clones?
Dec 12 23:57:09 <balrog> yes
Dec 12 23:57:17 <balrog> because apple was losing their focus
Dec 12 23:57:54 <singmajesty2> A quad-core Mac Pro costs $2500
Dec 12 23:58:02 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 12 23:58:10 <singmajesty2> Last time I researched it, I could purchase the same components for about $500 or $600 on pricelist
Dec 12 23:58:25 <oilsworkn> thats always been the case though lol
Dec 12 23:58:35 <balrog> with Xeons and dual-cpus though?
Dec 12 23:58:38 <singmajesty2> Yep
Dec 12 23:58:51 <singmajesty2> At the time. That was about six months ago
Dec 12 23:58:51 <balrog> note though that the Mac Pro is held back due to lack of Socket 2011 :/
Dec 12 23:58:54 <Hendikins> balrog: When I got my current desktop as configured, the Mac Tax was 30%.
Dec 12 23:59:11 <balrog> and yes I know the Mac Pro is somewhat more expensive than a comparable PC :/
Dec 12 23:59:12 <singmajesty2> Especially for desktops, I think one can think about it this way...
Dec 12 23:59:15 <singmajesty2> Apple is one company
Dec 12 23:59:20 <singmajesty2> PC is every single other computer company
Dec 12 23:59:26 <balrog> but the iMac, with its IPS monitor … Dell charges $1000 for theirs
Dec 12 23:59:37 <singmajesty2> So, to believe that you might get better performance or a better price from all the other companies combined... not a long shot
Dec 12 23:59:37 <balrog> so take a comparable PC and tack on the $1000 for a U2711
Dec 12 23:59:37 <Hendikins> balrog: This was with a  good Tyan board, pair of quad core Opterons, 16GB RAM, pair of GTX260s, etc. at the time.
Dec 12 23:59:43 <balrog> Hendikins: AMD doesn't count
Dec 12 23:59:49 <singmajesty2> But for a laptop, you do need to go with one company only, so it changes.
Dec 12 23:59:58 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 13 00:00:12 <balrog> maybe they will in a year or two
Dec 13 00:00:14 <balrog> but right now ...
Dec 13 00:00:15 <balrog>  
Dec 13 00:00:18 <Hendikins> balrog: This was 3 years ago.
Dec 13 00:00:39 <balrog> that's when the Core 2 architecture was the standard, and beat pretty much everything else out there
Dec 13 00:00:48 <singmajesty2> I guess, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to turn this into a larger conversation
Dec 13 00:00:58 <singmajesty2> I have to admit that the one feeling I have most when using the Macbook
Dec 13 00:01:00 <singmajesty2> ...
Dec 13 00:01:02 <dwc-> hrm, where were the new free app codes this week
Dec 13 00:01:06 <singmajesty2> Is that I don't feel like I really own my computer
Dec 13 00:01:11 <balrog> singmajesty2: and why's that?
Dec 13 00:01:19 <balrog> I mean, you can even recompile the kernel if you wish
Dec 13 00:01:22 <singmajesty2> Whereas in Linux, of course, you feel like you own everything
Dec 13 00:01:23 <dwc-> I see them on slickdeals (used up, of course)
Dec 13 00:01:28 <dwc-> but didn't get an email this week
Dec 13 00:01:29 <Hendikins> balrog: And I stand corrected looking at my records, the mac was a 60% premium.
Dec 13 00:01:34 <balrog> and on windows, yolu feel like you own nothing
Dec 13 00:01:38 <balrog> Hendikins: that's true with Mac Pros :/
Dec 13 00:01:48 <singmajesty2> .
Dec 13 00:01:59 <balrog> with laptops, I think build quality has to be taken into account. with iMacs, I think the display has to be taken into account
Dec 13 00:01:59 <Hendikins> balrog: Well, having an 8 core workstation, the competition from Apple would be a Mac Pro, would it not?
Dec 13 00:02:16 <augiedoggie> dwc-: they were inside the app catalog
Dec 13 00:02:16 <singmajesty2> Installing another OS on a Mac is hard.
Dec 13 00:02:19 <balrog> Yes, but they target it to a very specific market
Dec 13 00:02:22 <singmajesty2> Working with XCode is hard.
Dec 13 00:02:23 <oilsworkn> macmini
Dec 13 00:02:34 <balrog> singmajesty2: no it isn't, the biggest annoyance is properly partitioning
Dec 13 00:02:35 <Hendikins> balrog: People with more dollars than sense? :P
Dec 13 00:02:44 <balrog> Hendikins: or people who don't want to tweak the thing all the time
Dec 13 00:03:12 <Hendikins> balrog: Er... aside from upgrading to 12 cores recently and installing a GTX590 to drive the LED Cinema Display when I got it, what tweaking?
Dec 13 00:03:29 <balrog> Hendikins: OS tweaking
Dec 13 00:03:59 <Hendikins> I've done no more or less of that than I would have done with the OS X upgrades?
Dec 13 00:04:20 <oilsworkn> speaking of apple, now that im off work im going to a retired coworkers house to help him with itunes.......
Dec 13 00:04:50 <Hendikins> (Incidentally I have purchased two Mac Minis in that time to use as media PCs as well as the Cinema Display, so it can't be said I'm entirely anti-Apple)
Dec 13 00:05:11 <singmajesty2> I wish I could have something inbetween Windows and Linux
Dec 13 00:05:24 <singmajesty2> I love the Linux terminal, but I like how Windows will run everything I throw at it, and fast
Dec 13 00:05:40 <singmajesty2> A part of me would think (hope) that OS X would be that inbetween, but unfortunately, not for me
Dec 13 00:05:41 <halfhalo> I do like my air, but windows goes on my desktops.  because dammit, I like my zune software.
Dec 13 00:05:53 <balrog> for me it is that inbetween
Dec 13 00:06:00 <balrog> it works really well, too
Dec 13 00:06:06 <singmajesty2> I have worked full-time on both Mac and PC machines, and I simply get a lot more work done on Windows
Dec 13 00:06:10 <singmajesty2> And that is just me
Dec 13 00:06:13 <halfhalo> give windows a nice terminal and I will never leave it.
Dec 13 00:06:14 <balrog> I guess it depends on you
Dec 13 00:06:37 <Hendikins> I use Linux on the desktop, but it definitely isn't for everyone. It just happens to suit me.
Dec 13 00:06:43 <singmajesty2> Nowadays, everyone talks like the value of an OS is the number of apps
Dec 13 00:06:51 <singmajesty2> Funny how no one makes that argument when it comes to desktops?
Dec 13 00:07:14 <balrog> Linux works great for shells
Dec 13 00:07:23 <Hendikins> Nobody needs to with desktops. Windows has that sewn right up.
Dec 13 00:07:31 <dwc-> augiedoggie: thanks... is there a new pivot or something?
Dec 13 00:07:32 <singmajesty2> Personally, I would love to have a webOS Linux distro
Dec 13 00:07:36 <Hendikins> The competition is essentially niche stuff.
Dec 13 00:07:40 <singmajesty2> Install it on a laptop
Dec 13 00:08:02 <augiedoggie> dwc-: I think pivot is dead, there is a screen with featured apps now
Dec 13 00:08:06 <singmajesty2> Terminal, Opera, LibreOffice, FileZilla + webOS
Dec 13 00:08:14 <singmajesty2> Then I could dev and run in the same mobile OS
Dec 13 00:08:23 <dwc-> ahhh...
Dec 13 00:08:24 <singmajesty2> (I don't want to code on a virtual keyboard)
Dec 13 00:08:26 <dwc-> guess I lose
Dec 13 00:08:35 <Hendikins> singmajesty2: webOS is just a front end on top of Linux anyway. Hence being able to stick the Ubuntu chroot and Xecutah on it.
Dec 13 00:08:37 * dwc- makes mental note that touchpad is again out of juice
Dec 13 00:08:48 <Hendikins> And if you've got a TouchPad, use a Bluetooth keyboard with it.
Dec 13 00:08:52 <singmajesty2> Right -- I wonder how difficult it would be to do it the other way around
Dec 13 00:08:56 * dwc- makes mental note that the one time the 1A charger is not able to charge the TP, even slowly, is when the batt is dead
Dec 13 00:09:27 <singmajesty2> I think it would be sweet to have webOS, Ctrl + Alt + T to open a terminal
Dec 13 00:09:38 <singmajesty2> Open VIM, write some code, compile and see the card pop-up
Dec 13 00:09:45 <singmajesty2> But again, maybe this is just me :)
Dec 13 00:09:56 <singmajesty2> Kind of like Jolicloud, only better (and webOS)
Dec 13 00:17:49 <wrea> hey LarrySteeze
Dec 13 00:17:54 <LarrySteeze> hey
Dec 13 00:30:10 <akanster> that's a lot of Macs - http://www.flickr.com/photos/sidesh0w/6502218977/sizes/l/in/photostream/
Dec 13 00:35:25 <fxspec06> i can see the smog in that room
Dec 13 00:40:05 <dwc-> smug?
Dec 13 00:40:28 <singmajesty2> haha
Dec 13 00:40:39 <akanster> heh
Dec 13 00:40:53 <singmajesty2> I think I spot three black laptops
Dec 13 00:41:04 <akanster> that's An Event Apart in SF
Dec 13 00:41:05 <singmajesty2> (How did they get in there?)
Dec 13 00:42:44 <dwc-> are they black macbooks?
Dec 13 00:43:19 <dwc-> that's the trouble with #hashtags
Dec 13 00:43:44 <dwc-> I have no idea what #AEA is and even a search on twitter would mean I'd have to scroll through pages of crap to figure out what it is, and I'm just way too lazy for that
Dec 13 00:44:22 <akanster> dwc-: yeah, took me a while to figure it out
Dec 13 00:44:43 <akanster> nothing beats #HPVeer tho
Dec 13 00:44:55 <akanster> most people thought it was for HPV awareness
Dec 13 00:45:15 <dwc-> but what's eer?
Dec 13 00:45:26 <akanster> dunno
Dec 13 00:45:29 <singmajesty2> Huh? What'd you say?
Dec 13 00:55:28 <zephjc> cant believe i missed the ebay sale
Dec 13 01:10:46 <dwc-> augiedoggie: you are right... http://developer.palm.com/blog/2011/12/wheres-pivot/
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 13 01:20:13 2011

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 13 01:22:14 2011
Dec 13 01:25:25 <Satellite> rip pivot
Dec 13 01:29:09 <halfhalo> textmate 2 exists.  mind==blown
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 13 01:30:04 2011

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 13 01:32:14 2011
Dec 13 01:33:07 <zephjc> "**PLEASE DO NOT REPUBLISH THIS INFORMATION!**" on an open email list
Dec 13 01:34:47 <akanster> seemed like a cheap ploy for more press
Dec 13 01:37:51 <halfhalo> well, it worked
Dec 13 01:38:05 * halfhalo wants tm2 naokthxby
Dec 13 01:42:03 <dwc-> textmate2, does it split screen yet?
Dec 13 01:42:20 <halfhalo> dunno.  but its new.  and tm.  so it has to be good
Dec 13 01:42:58 <dwc-> no split screen = still sucky
Dec 13 01:43:05 <halfhalo> your sucky
Dec 13 01:43:15 <dwc-> no, not my sucky
Dec 13 01:43:17 <halfhalo> i would use sublime 2 but i like my mate .
Dec 13 01:43:18 <akanster> ten dolla?
Dec 13 01:43:40 <akanster> merry christmas to me! crysis 2 and mw3 purchased
Dec 13 01:44:28 <madnificent> if i were to buy a cheap phone now, what would be my best guess if i'd want to hack webos onto it.  i'm a senior year engineer in CS with a pre2 that constantly loses its connection.  i'm not willing to use a different operating system, none of them provide the fluent workflow the pre offers.
Dec 13 01:44:55 <dwc-> pre2, veer :p
Dec 13 01:45:10 <madnificent> not cheap
Dec 13 01:45:36 <madnificent> and also, i don't quite trust them.  my pre2 lasted for about 6 months, i'm not spending 250 euros on a device that breaks as soon as that
Dec 13 01:45:41 <dwc-> how cheap is cheap?
Dec 13 01:45:58 <zephjc> get an iPhone and write a webOS app :)
Dec 13 01:46:14 * dwc- got all his webos hardware for < 160 (touchpad)
Dec 13 01:47:02 <madnificent> dwc-: it depends on what you get for it...  but the veer goes 400 - 450 new in germany.  as i don't have a solid income, that's more than i'm willing to spend
Dec 13 01:47:33 <madnificent> dwc-: also, the idea that porting may become legal is of interest to me.
Dec 13 01:47:46 <madnificent> i wouldn't mind trying to get it running on my old htc hero either.
Dec 13 01:48:09 <madnificent> as a last note: if the veer would be priced at 150 or so, i'm sure it would be an absolute killer phone
Dec 13 01:49:21 <dwc-> veers can be found for that much on ebay, but I don't know about shipping to europe
Dec 13 01:54:00 <madnificent> dwc-: shipping to europe is generally 40 euros or more.  i don't know by what, but it varies a lot.  + taxes when you enter the country, which seem arbitrary to me
Dec 13 01:54:39 <oil> teleportation is expensive
Dec 13 01:54:59 <oil> if i ran an ecomerce site i would totally have it as an option as a joke
Dec 13 01:55:05 <oil> and make it super expensive
Dec 13 01:56:51 <zephjc> i *do* work for an e-commerse company - maybe i should slip that in as a shipping method
Dec 13 01:56:58 <zephjc> e-commerce*
Dec 13 01:58:10 <madnificent> hehe
Dec 13 01:59:31 <zephjc> and the costs would *still* vary with the price of gasoline
Dec 13 02:01:12 <madnificent> dwc-: as a last note, i don't quite trust the devices.  out of the three pre's in my family, 2 have died within 8 months.  when importing you basically don't have any sensible return policy.  i'd love a veer, but the price per month (don't know the english word) for the investment is rather steep.
Dec 13 02:18:43 <zephjc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuCNAIJQrqY is cool - card style interface on iPhone
Dec 13 02:29:17 <oil> zephjc: you should
Dec 13 02:29:26 <oil> "get it literally RIGHT NOW"
Dec 13 02:29:30 <zephjc> lol
Dec 13 02:29:43 <oil> "it will materialize next to you"
Dec 13 02:30:24 <zephjc> ill use my magic wad
Dec 13 02:30:27 <zephjc> wand*
Dec 13 02:32:22 <madnificent> zephjc: actually, webos is about much more than that.  thing is that everything is integrated perfectly.  the workflow is redonculously efficient, the patches are great, and i love the community.  i will likely start using another os soon, but i'll not like it.
Dec 13 02:32:38 <oil> lol
Dec 13 02:32:45 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 02:32:53 <oil> not going to wait for webos to go open source and see which device it gets ported to then get that?
Dec 13 02:33:34 <madnificent> to be more correct: i often use my old htc hero, as it actually has a network conection, always, my pre2 doesn't.  every single time i get annoyed.  if i install an app, it suddenly needs all my data (and i need to install a gazilion apps, because none of them really do what you need), if i need to send a message, i first need to find the app and the contact and whatnot.  and finding apps, what a mess!  just type is awesome.
Dec 13 02:34:10 <zephjc> yeah i played around with the webOS Virtua image for a few hours yesterday
Dec 13 02:34:19 <zephjc> i like it, tho ive started compiling an Issues list :)
Dec 13 02:34:43 <madnificent> oil: point is that my phone is currently broken.  it's in a state where i can have 15 minute calls, in some cases.  sometimes i'm unreachable.  it also drains the battery, so i have about 3 hours of live-time (the error makes the software hang and thus uses all cpu)
Dec 13 02:34:57 <zephjc> yikes
Dec 13 02:35:10 <oil> yeah thats no good
Dec 13 02:35:31 <zephjc> since this webOS accouncement, im having BeOS flashbacks
Dec 13 02:35:32 <madnificent> zephjc: webos is awesome when you're using it in real life.  my workflow on webos is simply more efficient than that of my friends.  i have text messages sent out faster, i know my appointments better, everything that works on webos is always in reach.
Dec 13 02:35:52 <madnificent> zephjc: on that note, have you ever tried haiku?  it's great fun, but not useful
Dec 13 02:36:09 <augiedoggie> heh
Dec 13 02:36:14 <zephjc> never tried it out - there wasnt anything runnable last time i tried it out
Dec 13 02:36:32 <madnificent> oil: you know what's even worse?  from time to time (say a day every two weeks) it works correctly.  it is then that you realize you really don't want another phone.
Dec 13 02:36:49 <oil> lol
Dec 13 02:36:59 <oil> ill tell you the veer is pretty solid though
Dec 13 02:37:01 <zephjc> its a noble effort, but it seems to fall behind faster than it can try to just reach feature parity with the real BeOS
Dec 13 02:37:10 <madnificent> zephjc: i've had it running for over a year.  if you have a usb stick, it's download, dumpdisk and boot.  no need to install it (though it is redonculously fast if you do install it).
Dec 13 02:37:23 <zephjc> nice
Dec 13 02:37:34 <madnificent> oil: the pre2 felt extremely solid as well, but apparently it fails within 6 months.  the phone looks *perfect*
Dec 13 02:37:43 <oil> the build quality feels like its higher on the veer
Dec 13 02:37:57 <oil> but i haven't used mine day-to-day, just for dev
Dec 13 02:38:05 <madnificent> oil: i doubt they changed the communication and charge chip
Dec 13 02:38:16 <oil> i have no clue about any of that
Dec 13 02:38:20 <zephjc> ive a couple friends at HP, ill figure out how to get a Touchpad eventually :)
Dec 13 02:38:53 <madnificent> ah that's another thing, the charger is on the same chip.  so i have to unplug the charger every 30 minutes or so or the damned thing won't charge.
Dec 13 02:38:58 <oil> however, the headphone jack on my pre2 i actually use every day is done for
Dec 13 02:39:05 <oil> always thinks its plugged in :(
Dec 13 02:39:31 <madnificent> oil: i've rarely used the headphone jacks, the headphones themselves though :D
Dec 13 02:40:10 <oil> in my car i use it to hook up to my deck
Dec 13 02:40:37 <madnificent> oh cool
Dec 13 02:40:59 <zephjc> im sorta tied to iOS/OS X because of my vast audiobook collection
Dec 13 02:47:07 <madnificent> zephjc: that's another thing i like about webos, it's redonculously open.  it took me 45 minutes or less to get common lisp running on it.  even in my obscure taste of programming languages, i could run it in minutes.  that's awesome.
Dec 13 02:49:06 <zephjc> clojurescript!
Dec 13 02:49:35 <zephjc> tho that needs java (and clojure) to compile anything
Dec 13 02:51:31 <zephjc> what runs the graphics layer in webOS?
Dec 13 02:51:38 <madnificent> zephjc: clojure isn't common lisp.  and anyone who claims that it's a language worth knowing, hasn't seen common lisp.
Dec 13 02:52:01 <madnificent> zephjc: it was built with the same ideas as java, and the ideas were wrong.
Dec 13 02:52:28 <madnificent> zephjc: you have html5 and javascript, or you can make native (read C) apps.
Dec 13 02:52:39 <madnificent> zephjc: you can use the C bindings for other stuff as well.  it's remarkably open.
Dec 13 02:53:13 <madnificent> zephjc: though perhaps not in the sense of "the source code of everything is OSI approved, you may touch everything and you won't get sued (eat that HTC)"
Dec 13 02:53:22 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 02:54:08 <madnificent> i guess webos is an extremely nice place to be as a coder, it may be less nice as an ordinary user.  though my dad likes his pre-.
Dec 13 02:54:53 <zephjc> yeah i want to have something with a low barrier to entry for coding apps... not that i can think of anything to make :)
Dec 13 02:56:15 * oil should make webos logo interpreter
Dec 13 02:56:26 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 02:56:50 <oil> it would be pretty easy, parse and draw it on a canvas
Dec 13 02:57:29 <madnificent> zephjc: well, that's webos for ya.  i don't even thing you need the emulator.  a recent webkit browser should do the trick for enyo.
Dec 13 02:57:47 <zephjc> yeah - i run Chrome and WebKit nightly
Dec 13 02:57:49 <madnificent> zephjc: and with enyo being open sourced, i doubt you'll be limited to webos devices in the near future.
Dec 13 02:57:57 <zephjc> yup
Dec 13 02:58:10 <oil> enyo is pretty nice
Dec 13 02:58:27 <madnificent> zephjc: there you have it, download Enyo and do your deeds.  i find it a tad sad that tasks@hand was written in mojo, as i'm somewhat more constrained now.  i lack the time to rewrite it though.
Dec 13 02:59:05 <zephjc> there's a project idea
Dec 13 02:59:12 <madnificent> oil: it is gorgeous, though i did like the simplicity of mojo myself.  it was more in tune with how i like stuff, i could model in mojo how i wanted to write apps.  that seems a tad harder in enyo, but enyo is easier to learn and it is more structured.
Dec 13 02:59:33 <madnificent> zephjc: if you're into converting an application from mojo to enyo, i have one for ya :P
Dec 13 02:59:44 <oil> lol
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