**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 21 02:59:56 2011 Dec 21 03:04:10 awkward silence... Dec 21 03:17:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKUDTPbDhnA - The FedEx Employee of the Month Dec 21 03:18:58 anyone working on the standby power bleed of the TouchPad ? compared to iPad1 it's bleeding quickly Dec 21 03:20:06 google docs had an error while I was working on a chem lab. Dec 21 03:20:13 I thought I may have lost hte doc Dec 21 03:20:18 I almost cried Dec 21 03:26:17 google docs saves frequently and keeps previous versions, no? Dec 21 03:27:10 Tibfib_^ Dec 21 03:28:14 I tend to use offline editors, where I can save often and undelete. I have Ubuntu One, so I just navigate to my cloud and download my file and work on it when I'm away. Dec 21 03:28:25 from laptop Dec 21 03:29:24 akanster: well there was an error soooo Dec 21 03:29:41 you break everything! Dec 21 03:29:47 I've never had any issues with google docs… just got scared is all! Dec 21 03:30:02 actually, I'm just trying to waste time so I don't have to work on my chem lab Dec 21 03:30:14 … bbl Dec 21 03:46:34 lol, political IRC spammers in #Android Dec 21 03:46:52 prObama, or Republican? Dec 21 03:46:59 Mitt Romney Dec 21 03:47:07 wow Dec 21 03:54:37 Can I just define a variable, or do I need to place it in a function? Dec 21 04:01:35 jack bauer for president Dec 21 04:03:53 I'm leaning towards Mitt Romney, but it doesn't really matter, since I can't vote. Dec 21 04:04:21 * webOSNewbie wonders what it would be like if Arnold Schwatzenegger was president Dec 21 04:07:57 Tibfib_: +1 Dec 21 04:23:49 oh yeah. I'll be able to vote Dec 21 04:29:44 no politics in IRC Dec 21 04:29:51 only in RL Dec 21 04:41:47 What about the #politics and #nobama channels? Dec 21 04:42:09 I just made these up; I have no idea if these exist Dec 21 04:42:15 webOSNewbie: You realize Ahnuld was born in germany right? Dec 21 04:42:42 drat. Dec 21 04:43:06 Then again, I bet he could muscle his way around that rule and become president. Dec 21 04:43:31 I don't think that's how that works Dec 21 04:44:19 What about Chuck Norris? Dec 21 05:14:07 How do I do an infinite loop in JavaScript? Dec 21 05:14:24 <_minego> for (;;) { doSomething(); } Dec 21 05:14:32 <_minego> I don't recommend doing that though Dec 21 05:14:52 why not? Dec 21 05:15:04 while (true) {// away we go!} Dec 21 05:15:22 I was gonna say, there are no while loops in JS? Dec 21 05:15:41 <_minego> while (true) {} and for (;;) {} are equivilent Dec 21 05:15:57 <_minego> the for loop version is just my prefered style Dec 21 05:16:04 Mine too Dec 21 05:16:12 is shorter, I guess, too Dec 21 05:16:14 I just haven't been programming for a while Dec 21 05:16:26 I've done a bunch of calc programming Dec 21 05:16:33 but not recently Dec 21 05:19:18 <_minego> Why do you want an infinite loop? Dec 21 05:19:57 my app Dec 21 05:20:09 <_minego> I assumed that much. What are you trying to do in your app? Dec 21 05:20:22 Pile images on each other. Dec 21 05:20:28 My dad made me Dec 21 05:20:45 your mom had a hand in that too Dec 21 05:20:55 She could care less Dec 21 05:20:56 <_minego> haha Dec 21 05:44:53 http://bit.ly/tMq7E3 webOSNewbies mom? Dec 21 05:45:24 No Dec 21 05:45:28 She's Asian Dec 21 05:57:09 _minego, ping Dec 21 05:57:39 <_minego> PatrickC: sup Dec 21 05:57:47 ill PM u Dec 21 06:13:55 So peaceful and quiet... Dec 21 06:14:43 DUNDUNDUN Dec 21 06:15:31 someone's gonna die now Dec 21 06:17:00 Whew. Dec 21 06:17:08 Only my connection died. Dec 21 06:17:28 darn Dec 21 06:20:25 time for plan b. Dec 21 06:20:34 I can't figure out what's wrong with my code-- http://pastebin.com/bUpFXwbc Dec 21 06:21:12 besides a general lack of indentation? Dec 21 06:21:20 Yep Dec 21 06:21:32 I don't know why, but I hate indentation Dec 21 06:21:41 Ever since I started HTML Dec 21 06:21:57 And i hate code which lacks it. Dec 21 06:22:12 You could indent yourself... Dec 21 06:22:14 html with no indentation? my head hurts just thinking about it Dec 21 06:22:32 I figure stuff out in my head Dec 21 06:22:33 I could, but I'm not. Because that would constitute effort on my part Dec 21 06:22:46 hehe Dec 21 06:23:12 I don;t really see the benefit of indentation for me Dec 21 06:23:42 webOSNewbie: I think you should take out the newlines too Dec 21 06:24:03 I don't really see the benefit of multiple lines for me Dec 21 06:24:13 space too - get rid of them Dec 21 06:24:27 variable names too - you should name your variables 'a', 'b', 'c', etc Dec 21 06:24:50 What variables? Dec 21 06:25:22 exactly, who needs them Dec 21 06:26:15 those files. rename nomnom.jpg to a.jpg and facebook.jpg to b.jpg Dec 21 06:26:46 indentation and filenames - both completely superfluous Dec 21 06:27:00 hello.jpg Dec 21 06:27:01 Reminds me of calc programming Dec 21 06:27:07 I do all of this Dec 21 06:27:11 any code without indentation == headache Dec 21 06:27:42 mscoolnerd: the number of bugs in a piece of code is directly proportionally to the regularity and preciseness of it's indentation Dec 21 06:27:56 s/directly/inversely/ of course Dec 21 06:28:00 any code without indentation == me not looking at it for more than it takes for me to say to myself "this lacks indentation" Dec 21 06:28:58 anyone who lacks the care to indent things properly usually also lacks the care to write the code correctly Dec 21 06:29:31 hmm Dec 21 06:29:36 so python code should be perfect, right? ;) Dec 21 06:29:42 * mscoolnerd agrees Dec 21 06:31:14 dwc-: you can write badly indented python code too Dec 21 06:31:14 lol Dec 21 06:31:47 So much for finding out what's wrong with my code Dec 21 06:31:57 Besides the lack of indentation Dec 21 06:32:16 webOSNewbie: well, fix that first, and you'll likely see it yourself. Dec 21 06:32:40 How do I indent? Dec 21 06:32:57 I forgot Dec 21 06:33:01 I... Dec 21 06:33:56 * halfhalo 's brain hurts Dec 21 06:34:48 .... Dec 21 06:35:42 its in the programming commandments: Thou who shall not indent, shall not program Dec 21 06:36:09 I don't follow them; I'm a minor Dec 21 06:37:03 * halfhalo goes back to his properly indented corner Dec 21 06:37:10 Fine... Dec 21 06:37:16 I'll try to remember... Dec 21 06:37:18 http://pastebin.com/gJLtFcnv Dec 21 06:37:29 Try that Dec 21 06:37:30 * mscoolnerd likes halfhalo's idea Dec 21 06:37:47 ditto Dec 21 06:38:07 At least look at my sorta indented code Dec 21 06:38:26 can you? I thought it enforced changes in indentation Dec 21 06:38:28 oh well Dec 21 06:38:44 webOSNewbie: what are we looking for? Dec 21 06:38:50 Problems Dec 21 06:38:59 like what? Dec 21 06:38:59 It won't work Dec 21 06:39:11 All it shows is a blank card Dec 21 06:39:23 did you try running it in chrome and looking at the javascript error log? Dec 21 06:39:27 * rwhitby points to for (;;) ... Dec 21 06:39:37 enyo forkbomb Dec 21 06:40:16 forkbomb? Dec 21 06:40:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_bomb Dec 21 06:41:08 :(){ :|:& };: Dec 21 06:41:51 Cool! Dec 21 06:41:55 good times... Dec 21 06:42:11 Now I can tell my dad I don't have to do this stupid app he wants me to... Dec 21 06:42:47 g.evening Dec 21 06:43:04 anyone know of a ssh client for webos Dec 21 06:43:17 Lonestar99: xterm with ssh? Dec 21 06:43:56 xterm Dec 21 06:44:07 xecutah Dec 21 06:44:43 lol webOSNewbie your for loop syntax is just atypical Dec 21 06:44:44 ok finally back in the us, have my 2 tp finally Dec 21 06:45:05 My dad has one, but that's for work Dec 21 06:45:33 He only lets us use it for special occasions, like this little app he wants Dec 21 06:45:45 also, the the properties youre setting up in the enyo.kind call are key-value pairs of an Object Dec 21 06:46:02 key-value? Dec 21 06:46:11 {key: "value"} Dec 21 06:46:13 rwhitby: been along time Dec 21 06:46:14 yeah webOSNewbie what are you trying to accomplish with that loop? Dec 21 06:46:22 oh Dec 21 06:46:28 is xecutah? in preware? Dec 21 06:46:39 yup Dec 21 06:46:39 Lonestar99 yup Dec 21 06:46:42 I don't think so Dec 21 06:46:46 What' Dec 21 06:46:51 s xecutah? Dec 21 06:47:01 did you want to run that enyo.create twice? Dec 21 06:47:05 it lets you run x server on the touchpad Dec 21 06:47:34 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Xecutah Dec 21 06:48:07 I give up Dec 21 06:48:19 webOSNewbie: what are you trying to do? Dec 21 06:48:20 My mom probably will come upstairs and yell at me Dec 21 06:48:35 After all, I set the clock to PST, not MST Dec 21 06:48:39 ok thanks Dec 21 06:49:18 ok? well i'm not sure what the heck he was trying to do Dec 21 06:49:47 how do i access preware, since the app catalog change months ago? Dec 21 06:51:11 what are you trying o do? if your parents are giving you a deadline for creating an app in a day, tell them to not be such slave drivers lol Dec 21 06:51:56 cant learn a new framework in a day Dec 21 06:52:02 tell them off like entitled brats do nowadays Dec 21 06:52:46 lol Dec 21 06:53:01 Lonestar99 this might help http://forums.webosnation.com/canuck-coding/274461-webos-quick-install-v4-3-1-a.html Dec 21 06:53:15 "I wanted a BWM! I cant believe you got me a saab!" Dec 21 06:53:21 ok thanks mscoolnerd Dec 21 06:53:48 no problem Dec 21 06:53:54 zephjc, I'd be pissed too, no warranty! Dec 21 06:54:26 Lonestar99: http://bit.ly/phd-ac Dec 21 06:54:59 hehe Dec 21 06:56:07 rwhitby: K thanks purchasing now Dec 21 07:00:37 purchased Dec 21 07:01:08 hey Lonestar99! long time no see! Dec 21 07:01:30 sup PatrickC Dec 21 07:02:00 hey Adora Dec 21 07:02:04 Lonestar99, nothin much Dec 21 07:02:04 u? Dec 21 07:02:29 back in the game Dec 21 07:02:48 nice Dec 21 07:04:28 yeah Dec 21 07:04:48 yeah? Dec 21 07:04:52 huh? lol Dec 21 07:06:09 fina;;y back in us, messing with TP which was in box for like 3+ months Dec 21 07:06:25 woop Dec 21 07:07:56 yeah, also got a blackberry bold =( Dec 21 07:08:03 this blackberry reboots more then my pre- haha Dec 21 07:08:59 what blackberry u have? Dec 21 07:09:06 9630 Dec 21 07:09:11 Tour Dec 21 07:10:13 cool Dec 21 07:10:49 i like my blackberry better than iphone Dec 21 07:11:06 do i have to repost Angry Birds for Blackberry? Dec 21 07:11:13 blackberry coding isn't that hard, you guys could connect your touchpad to you blackberry and code up some interesting projects Dec 21 07:11:21 *via bluetooth Dec 21 07:12:06 Lonestar99, what bberry u have? Dec 21 07:12:35 mscoolnerd, speek from experience? Dec 21 07:12:41 zephjc, u should do the port :) Dec 21 07:13:03 PatrickC: bold 9930 Dec 21 07:13:07 nice Dec 21 07:13:13 the newer version of mine Dec 21 07:13:19 im stuck on OS 5 :/ Dec 21 07:13:23 got it a month ago, but barely opned up a day ago Dec 21 07:13:31 lol Dec 21 07:13:33 PatrickC: kindof, i've played around with the blackberry sdk before but i haven't tried connecting my bb to my touchpad before Dec 21 07:13:44 ive done it Dec 21 07:13:51 my bb doesnt have MAP :/ Dec 21 07:13:57 and i dont think theres a way to sideload Dec 21 07:15:34 sorry, but what's MAP? Dec 21 07:15:58 Message Access Profile Dec 21 07:16:09 its a bluetooth profile that allows message sharing between devices Dec 21 07:16:22 ahhh ok Dec 21 07:17:33 any Project Macaw users can visit #project-macaw for official news and help Dec 21 07:30:38 http://forums.webosnation.com/3218146-post139.html Dec 21 07:30:47 anyone know about this? Dec 21 07:31:32 someone I know whipped up an app for the blackberry playbook and got a device out of it Dec 21 07:31:50 if j want to use that hulu fix, do I need to first uninstall the original hulu fix, the one from preware? Dec 21 07:32:09 i* Dec 21 07:32:17 doesn't work Dec 21 07:32:25 afaik Dec 21 07:32:49 that new one got shut down again? Dec 21 07:33:13 it was the newest fix I could find... Dec 21 07:33:57 dwc-, i know someone who did that too Dec 21 07:34:10 actually this one might be different than the last one I saw Dec 21 07:35:19 I wish P|C didn't force me to log in to look at attachments Dec 21 07:35:31 yeah Dec 21 07:35:44 so meaning it probably works then? Dec 21 07:35:58 since I often want to download the attachments to a different machine than the one I currently have the web browser on Dec 21 07:36:34 meaning I take back the "doesn't work afaik" Dec 21 07:37:28 but before I I stall the new hulu fix, do I need to remove the preware hulu fix first? Dec 21 07:37:33 and, having gotten hulu working on my device after they broke the last fix that was in the preware feeds, I'm going to see what this one does Dec 21 07:37:36 I would assume so Dec 21 07:38:48 well, according to that post, I know it breaks one thing to make another work Dec 21 07:39:02 such as breaking the app catalog Dec 21 07:39:21 and to make the app catalog work again, hulu needs to be in broken mode again Dec 21 07:39:38 I'm a littl surprised that some of this works Dec 21 07:39:40 if it does Dec 21 07:39:41 mount <96>o remount,rw / Dec 21 07:39:57 * dwc- forgets what 0x96 is but is pretty sure it's not a "-" Dec 21 07:41:16 time to debug this app :/ Dec 21 07:41:44 PatrickC: need any help testing? Dec 21 07:41:59 mscoolnerd, right now just trying to figure out why this scene wont push Dec 21 07:42:06 but the app is #project-macaw :) Dec 21 07:42:13 we can always use more testers Dec 21 07:42:20 ah cool. Dec 21 07:42:24 so do a “mount <96>o remount,rw /”? Dec 21 07:42:46 boom22_ i think is should be "mount -o remount,rw /" Dec 21 07:43:47 * PatrickC feels stupid now Dec 21 07:43:58 such a simple mistake :/ Dec 21 07:44:07 PatrickC: its a twitter app? Dec 21 07:44:15 yep Dec 21 07:45:13 rwhitby: u there? Dec 21 07:45:38 yep Dec 21 07:46:04 ok. i need input on this new thing im adding. its a color. who wants to take a look and help? Dec 21 07:46:08 can i ssh to a remote server using xecutah? Dec 21 07:46:19 im looking for a good color to use for my links that matches the themes good Dec 21 07:47:24 PatrickC: http://kuler.adobe.com/ Dec 21 07:47:26 have fun Dec 21 07:47:40 howdy sugardave Dec 21 07:47:47 hey Lonestar99 Dec 21 07:47:49 * PatrickC goes to see what sugardave is telling me to look at Dec 21 07:48:08 wow.. nice! Dec 21 07:48:18 but still, i like real peoples input :) Dec 21 07:48:55 https://www.box.net/shared/7oji3ljoddfmjhxqvxik theres the IPK. the scene im wanting input on is the "Support" scene located under the "About" section in the app menu. the links. Dec 21 07:49:52 PatrickC: why don't you just post a screenshot? Dec 21 07:50:02 thats a good idea haha Dec 21 07:50:10 * PatrickC is tired if you couldnt tell :P Dec 21 07:50:41 haha it happens to most of us.... the human ones at least :P Dec 21 07:50:45 lol Dec 21 07:51:32 well, I uninstalled it and now I gotta restart luna Dec 21 07:51:35 230 screenshots.. is that too many? :P Dec 21 07:52:08 * mscoolnerd facepalm Dec 21 07:52:37 sugardave: finALLy messing with tp after like 4 months Dec 21 07:53:58 https://www.box.net/shared/2oq2nvg8a66da36hzc9o Dec 21 07:54:49 what's wrong with the colors that there in now? Dec 21 07:55:03 i just want to make sure that it looks OK Dec 21 07:55:16 im not normally the one who does our UI :) well, not this part of it at least Dec 21 07:55:21 im mostly the layout guy Dec 21 07:55:33 hobbit part 1 trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEOM13UyZ0A Dec 21 07:55:36 so much win Dec 21 07:55:47 yeah im a programming not a designer but it looks find to me Dec 21 07:55:55 ok cool Dec 21 07:55:59 thats what i thought Dec 21 07:56:04 just wanted others opinions :) Dec 21 07:56:16 haha no problem Dec 21 07:57:13 * PatrickC thinks its bedtime :) Dec 21 07:57:15 night guys Dec 21 07:57:28 night Dec 21 07:57:37 gnite Dec 21 07:58:26 gnitwe Dec 21 08:05:00 is it possible to download and unzip a zip file from the TP? Dec 21 08:05:32 wget Dec 21 08:05:36 I want to try and work everything from the tp as possibly as I can Dec 21 08:05:47 and unzip Dec 21 08:06:05 preware or app catalog? Dec 21 08:06:19 oh, you want a gui on those? =] Dec 21 08:06:39 tractor Dec 21 08:06:41 is wget a site? Dec 21 08:06:52 no, wget and unzip are command-line tools Dec 21 08:17:02 is there anything other than tractor? Dec 21 08:17:17 xecutah, wget, & unzip Dec 21 08:17:57 the on,y unzipper tool in catalog is tractor? Dec 21 08:18:07 only* Dec 21 08:18:46 how many different ways to unzip a file do you need? Dec 21 08:18:56 all of them Dec 21 08:20:34 is there a free one? Dec 21 08:22:15 xecutah, wget, & unzip Dec 21 08:22:32 :) Dec 21 08:22:53 I've never even heard of tractor Dec 21 08:22:55 * dwc- goes to check it out Dec 21 08:22:55 nice day gentleman Dec 21 08:24:32 oh yea, office on sale... hmm, do I really care about editing office docs on my phone... Dec 21 08:24:43 yep Dec 21 08:25:19 I'll have to do a little more research Dec 21 08:26:21 if its office doc compatibility is as bad as openoffice/abiword/etc, it might not be worth it to me Dec 21 08:26:35 * dwc- works with people who send "fancy" formatting in their docs Dec 21 08:31:13 do I get unzip from preware? Dec 21 08:31:49 you don't, it comes with your device Dec 21 08:31:58 ah, ok Dec 21 08:32:06 root@TouchPad:/var/home/root# which unzip Dec 21 08:32:06 /usr/bin/unzip Dec 21 08:32:06 root@TouchPad:/var/home/root# ls -l /usr/bin/unzip Dec 21 08:32:06 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 Aug 23 21:53 /usr/bin/unzip -> ../../bin/busybox Dec 21 08:32:29 so it's the not-very-featured busybox unzip Dec 21 08:33:16 there's a more typical 'unzip' in optware (install the optware bootstrap in preware) Dec 21 08:33:28 root@TouchPad:/var/home/root# ipkg-opt list unzip Dec 21 08:33:28 unzip - 6.0-2 - A (de)compression library for the ZIP format Dec 21 08:33:47 dwc-: well, there's also UnZip in Preware Dec 21 08:36:36 yea, but that one doesn't end up in the shell's path, I don't think Dec 21 08:37:06 I'm pretty sure my devices have the preware unzip... it's a dependency for save/restore (iirc) Dec 21 08:47:04 so can I do “/media/internal/downloads/hulu-fix.zip unzip”? Dec 21 08:47:33 how familiar are you with linux/unix's commandline? Dec 21 08:47:55 not too much Dec 21 08:48:08 I had experience with it on android though Dec 21 08:48:19 but other than that, not all too familiar Dec 21 08:49:42 ok, well, just a warning... you -can- mess up your device pretty badly Dec 21 08:50:04 and it's command first, arguments to the command after that Dec 21 08:52:37 how does it mess it up? Dec 21 08:57:30 that command probably won't, but you could unpack an archive that overwrites critical files or delete important files to make it unbootable, or overwrite important parts of the flash media, etc. Dec 21 09:02:35 boom22: I would recommend you have the webOS doctor handy. Dec 21 09:27:19 would making a backup of the files that will be overwritten help?. Dec 21 09:35:31 is it because if the hulu fix patch that could possibly brick the touchpad? Dec 21 09:35:46 of* Dec 21 09:42:27 is it because of the hulu fix patch that could possibly brick the touchpad?? Dec 21 10:36:45 boom22: pretty unlikely Dec 21 10:37:31 boom22: but if you follow the instructions exactly as they are in the post, instead of paraphrasing them like you tried to above, you'll be fine. Dec 21 10:40:45 dwc said that “that command probably won't, but you could unpack an archive that overwrites critical files or delete important files to make it unbootable, or overwrite important parts of the flash media, etc.” Dec 21 10:44:07 morning Dec 21 10:45:06 hallo Dec 21 10:45:36 so, after I get hulu to work, but app catalog breaks, do I do "mount -o remount,rw /" after? Dec 21 11:51:08 * EricBlade1 wonders how the hell his touchpad lost 75% battery in 7 hrs, while sitting on the touchstone Dec 21 11:52:48 :/ Dec 21 11:57:32 was it not charging but it was in exhibition mode or something? Dec 21 12:19:35 I wonder if http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-TouchPad-Case-Wireless-Keyboard-Charging-Dock-Bundle-Refurbished-/170749300552 is still live/buyable Dec 21 12:20:33 though it's not really that great of a deal =/ Dec 21 12:21:30 I could buy everything new from amazon at $7 more including shipping w/ no tax Dec 21 12:28:43 all the cool kids have 2.2.4 except mee. boo Dec 21 13:51:48 hmm... what do i need to do to power up a touchstone in a car i wonder.. just connecting it to a standard lighter->usb adapter doesn't cut it Dec 21 13:52:09 you need a 2A adapter Dec 21 13:52:14 going to be renting a car in a couple of weeks to take a trip, and going to need lots of juice Dec 21 13:52:34 and 1A for the phones i take Dec 21 13:52:59 it owuldn't surprise me if the car comes with usb connections, i'm going to have to check it out Dec 21 13:53:22 in which case i can just limp the 500mA Dec 21 13:54:57 i think you need the extra power or the indunction will not work Dec 21 13:55:24 I tried one in my car with a "standard" lighter to USB adaptor and it would not work Dec 21 13:55:37 was fine with the palm car adaptor though Dec 21 13:58:26 for me it's working with pam car adaptor Dec 21 13:58:47 and it's 1A i think Dec 21 13:59:53 imagine if awesomium had an arm build Dec 21 14:08:09 hmm. palm car adaptors don't seem to be especially cheap Dec 21 14:11:11 i think mine was B#6 from ebay Dec 21 14:11:18 thats 6GBP Dec 21 15:16:57 hmm. My Pre2 just went "DING DING DING", and a giant but empty popup appeared in the notification area. Dec 21 15:20:39 you won the nigerian lotto Dec 21 15:20:46 please mail your phone to nigera to collect payment Dec 21 15:21:01 nigeria* Dec 21 15:21:29 EricBlade1, 2.2.4? Dec 21 15:21:46 Compn: lol.. NuttyBunny: yes Dec 21 15:21:58 Compn: i don't have an Android, no spam here Dec 21 15:22:52 EricBlade1: No idea then, sorry I'm still waiting to jump on the 2.2.4 cart :) Dec 21 15:23:14 wouldn't recommend it... I shouldn't have updated Dec 21 15:23:18 did you have an idea otherwise? Dec 21 15:24:23 no ;) Dec 21 15:25:16 the update seems to make no major difference to me. i don't notice a difference between it and before hand, except that sometimes i might be able to login to skype .. although skype absolutely kills the battery and phone speed Dec 21 15:28:40 EricBlade1: you can have skype messaging+contacts synergy on 2.1 :D Dec 21 15:28:58 on non-verizon pre2 Dec 21 15:29:48 but i already have 2.2.4 :) Dec 21 15:30:01 i just hope i don't have to wait another year for another update, like some people have been Dec 21 15:33:12 NuttyBunny how can you have skype messaging on 2.1 ? Dec 21 15:33:41 pc-world hi :) Dec 21 15:33:43 hmm, 2.1.0 came out in... feb-march-ish Dec 21 15:33:52 so we've only been waiting just under a year Dec 21 15:34:24 panel: copy all the relevant (skype related) files over, copy 4 libraries, overwrite the mediaserver runtime, install the skype ipk, and there you go http://forums.webosnation.com/nuttybunny/309012-get-skype-running-2-1-devices.html#post3268750 Dec 21 15:35:32 panel: hi ;) Dec 21 15:37:37 NuttyBunny thank's for info :) I was waiting for it till june :D Dec 21 15:37:44 *from Dec 21 15:39:35 panel: I didn't try to play with the pre3 version since the hardware was a bit different, but pre and pre2 are fairly similar, so I decided to give it a shot and managed to get the messaging and contacts part working. Phone is another beast, so maybe it won't even work at all :( Dec 21 15:47:34 Skype works on the Pre3 2.2.0 Dec 21 15:48:04 it even uses the front cam for video Dec 21 15:48:54 Yup, skype works on Pre 3, it was made for it, but we're playing with using skype on Pre 2 or even Pre/Pre+ :D Dec 21 15:49:08 RichT23: He knows. He meant he didn't want to try the Pre 3 Skype versions on older devices Dec 21 15:51:30 pre3 is dual cam? damn, now i need to locate one of -those too Dec 21 15:52:31 EricBlade1: Yep, it's the best webOS phone ever Dec 21 15:57:24 NuttyBunny: and still bad? Dec 21 15:58:07 pc-world: well, the memory issue... *sigh* Dec 21 15:58:27 NuttyBunny: that's what I mean. Only something about 380 MB available RAM Dec 21 15:58:47 i see Dec 21 15:58:58 ya the Pre3 is a very nice device Dec 21 15:59:09 pc-world: anyway, I prefer the resolution even if it has a bit less memory than the Pre 2 :D Dec 21 15:59:12 i really wish they would of added a micro SD card though Dec 21 15:59:22 maybe made it dule core too ;) Dec 21 15:59:46 More resolution+Autofocus Cam+Front Cam. Just with the autofocus cam :D Dec 21 16:00:07 RichT23: well 8GB is much too less. 16GB on my Pre 2 is okay, I at least don't have to worry about how much is still left Dec 21 16:01:01 pc-world: But you don't have the AT&T Pre 3 :D With 16Gb!! Dec 21 16:01:12 Oh ya i forgot about the autofocus, that rules ;) Dec 21 16:01:19 NuttyBunny: I don't have any Pre 3 :D Dec 21 16:01:34 that's ok, I filled up my /media/internal on my 32gb touchpad yesterday Dec 21 16:01:37 ya 8gig sux, it would not of cost much to make it 16! Dec 21 16:01:51 that's what happens when you chop 16gb out for an ext3 and then have some apps and then try to stuff win8 isos on it Dec 21 16:01:56 pc-world, if you get one, try it to be an AT&T one, 16Gb is the sweet spot Dec 21 16:02:28 * RichT23 wonders if a micro SD card readed could be added Dec 21 16:03:23 RichT23: Apparently that was at least planned, I read somewhere that there's a bit of code on the TP that could be used for mounting/unmounting cards Dec 21 16:05:44 would that not just be the `mount` command? Dec 21 16:06:17 no idea, I assume there were some automount scripts Dec 21 16:09:08 I think it was supposed to create a cryptofs partition on the sd card?! Dec 21 16:10:38 hmmm.. good idea :D Dec 21 16:12:07 http://www.webosnation.com/hp-touchpad-already-has-usb-host-support-webos-prepped-sd-cards Dec 21 16:15:24 ah, yep, that Dec 21 16:15:42 I still use mine for connecting to cisco equipment via serial :D Dec 21 16:20:20 NuttyBunny: is that with a Serial to USB adapter? Dec 21 16:20:55 RichT23: yup. I had to compile my kernel module, but it works :D Dec 21 16:21:25 arr i was going to ask if the kernal module was already there ;) Dec 21 16:23:00 nope, not there, it took me a couple of days to figure that out :S Dec 21 16:23:18 =) Dec 21 16:24:00 Kernal Modules are usefull Dec 21 16:24:16 awesome. WebOS is by far the best OS for mobiles devices out there. It's som felxible and yet so easy to develop for. I can't understand the run on Android devices Dec 21 16:24:42 (relatively) no userbase? Dec 21 16:25:15 ya Google used there power to push droid Dec 21 16:25:34 but how comes? The hp devices sold like crazy - even now they do Dec 21 16:25:42 I also think Pre is one of the best HW devices Dec 21 16:26:13 i point the finger at the providers Dec 21 16:26:15 the multitasking is unbeatable Dec 21 16:26:33 they have a lot of power over what phones get sold and for how much Dec 21 16:26:56 so hp did not make the right deals with them? Dec 21 16:27:31 ya Dec 21 16:27:32 btw: I have a game/gamemaker for WebOs and an Android port. Sales are 92 vs 8 Dec 21 16:27:50 Android sucks in any direction Dec 21 16:27:53 92 to droid of webos? Dec 21 16:28:06 no. 98 webos vs 8 android Dec 21 16:28:08 s/of/to/ Dec 21 16:28:12 KungPhoo: the HP devices sold like crazy because they were $99 Dec 21 16:28:13 nice Dec 21 16:28:23 KungPhoo: what game did you make? Dec 21 16:28:25 not because people really like webOS Dec 21 16:28:34 summatusmentis: that's right Dec 21 16:28:34 summatusmentis that was stupid. They'd sell like crazy for $199 as well Dec 21 16:28:53 uhm.. http://gack.glbasic.com Dec 21 16:28:56 KungPhoo: yes, but still cause of the price Dec 21 16:29:02 so? Dec 21 16:29:03 don't get me wrong, I love webOS, and many people have started to see what webOS can do (because of the firesale) Dec 21 16:29:13 but the price was the driving factor Dec 21 16:29:40 they'd have made profit with $199 as well - and still sell lots of the devices Dec 21 16:29:53 that's fine, whatever, but that's not what happened Dec 21 16:30:11 i was looking for a TP in the UK Dec 21 16:30:12 puting a device at $600 just because Apple does, too is not making sense Dec 21 16:30:19 wating till they released then Dec 21 16:30:42 two days after i last looked the firesale was over and done with and i was to late Dec 21 16:30:43 KungPhoo: the original argument was that you need price parity, otherwise people will think it's a cheap knock-off Dec 21 16:30:53 I got one of eBay - one of the lucky bastards that gota firesale sold it for 3x the price Dec 21 16:31:16 id like a TP Dec 21 16:31:24 maybe some day! Dec 21 16:31:33 well... it's worth $300 even. But Apple prices are totally crazy Dec 21 16:31:39 i do have a Pixi, Veer and pre3 Dec 21 16:31:48 I like my TP way better than my iPad. Dec 21 16:32:01 KungPhoo: notice where all the other iPad comparable tablets price-points are Dec 21 16:32:11 tablets are expensive machines, $500 is a reasonable price Dec 21 16:32:17 yes Dec 21 16:32:43 they wouldn't have made much profit selling at $199... the estimated cost was over that by a bit Dec 21 16:32:43 Apple prices for the iPad aren't crazy, in fact, often times they're cheaper Dec 21 16:32:47 I so hope they can put webos on other devices Dec 21 16:33:06 once it's open-sourced, I expect there will be a number of porting efforts Dec 21 16:33:39 let's hope so. Because from the user experience it outbeats iOs and Android altogether Dec 21 16:33:55 I agree Dec 21 16:34:12 although, at least for me, "user experience" is negatively affected by lack of apps Dec 21 16:34:43 hey, less fart apps is good, right? Dec 21 16:35:02 not when it means there's no netflix app :)_ Dec 21 16:35:27 I feel perfectly comfortable ignoring fart apps if it means we can get apps by The Big Ones Dec 21 16:36:14 yea.... I know =[ Dec 21 16:39:54 i dont think i have seen a "big ones" app apart from facebook Dec 21 16:40:01 Kindle Dec 21 16:40:31 even google turned there back on webos, fecking up maps and saying we will not fix it was not a nice thing to do Dec 21 16:41:32 humm non of this is getting my DNS change started Dec 21 16:46:27 "RIM rejects Amazon's takeover offer" .. webOS didn't get any takeover offers :( Dec 21 16:46:41 hey KungPhoo, get anywhere in that camera research? Dec 21 16:46:58 no :( Dec 21 16:47:44 I think it's not possible. In the forums they said, that they wanted not to allow direct camera access w/o any user interaction Dec 21 16:47:50 which is what I want Dec 21 16:48:20 :( oh, you're the gack guy? nice. i do gaming on a little bit higher level (i'm an Unreal engineer by trade at the moment), but I saw a couple of decent reviews on that Dec 21 16:50:04 i'd like to find a 3d game engine that runs on webos, but my hopes for that are about nil. i'll probably try to put some effort into getting Unreal up, though, I think people would like that. But I have doubts that Epic would bring it back into the trunk, so it might end up just being a personal project :( Dec 21 16:50:04 really? Cool. It's pretty easy to use and with the current PC/Mac App you can even build standalone games. Dec 21 16:50:41 gnight all Dec 21 16:50:46 ok. I think most 3D engines that support iOS work on the TP out of the box Dec 21 16:51:12 I'm going to be signing some contracts for a big big iPhone Unreal project in the next couple of weeks, and I'm going to convince my higher ups to let me get it working on webOS .. but the publisher may have no interest at all. Dec 21 16:51:36 and even if my higher ups have no interest, i'm still going to try :) Dec 21 16:51:51 it won't hurt to port - not a lot of work anyway. And the sale numbers are really good Dec 21 16:51:57 if you're quick Dec 21 16:52:27 well, we're targetting a September release Dec 21 16:52:52 the port is a week overhead. If at all Dec 21 16:53:16 I'm hoping so, except right at the moment, i haven't even got the slightest idea how to actually build something to run on webOS natively Dec 21 16:53:23 everything i've done is webapp Dec 21 16:54:15 programming for webos with PDK is really so much fun. It's like compiling for windows/linux and then pack with pdk_pack.bat and install with another script. 2 klicks and it runs Dec 21 16:54:56 uh.. you'll have to teach me that trick Dec 21 16:55:08 which one? Dec 21 16:55:17 getting something to build for pdk Dec 21 16:55:28 download the pdk Dec 21 16:55:29 your code has to be right first :) Dec 21 16:55:44 a hello, world would be sufficient Dec 21 16:56:21 i have doubts that it's going to be quite so simple for the unreal build process (it takes an hour to build it on a PC, from what i hear 6-8 hours to build it for iOS) Dec 21 16:56:24 it installs a GCC setup. Just use that to compile your project. Dec 21 16:57:00 yeah i've got the Code Sourcery tools installed, have just never figured out how to make them work Dec 21 16:57:10 Then make a directory with an appinfo.json and package.properties (just copy from any example). Dec 21 16:57:38 and then palm/pdk/bin/palm_package.bat the directory of your app -> creates an ipk Dec 21 16:58:02 how do you compile then? It's a gcc Dec 21 16:58:45 I'm really not sure, I haven't done a build for anything but PC before, i've never had the unix sources before, that'll hopefully come with my new contract Dec 21 16:59:18 ok. You'll see. It's really not that complicated Dec 21 17:02:09 i -think- the iOS ver is compiled with gcc .. i know the Android ver is, but I don't know if I'll have access to the Android ver. I will have access to the macOS X ver, though Dec 21 17:02:46 it would be so awesome to get at least a unreal game running Dec 21 17:04:04 if it happens, i'll try to get any changes shipped back up to Epic, maybe it can be included in the free stuff. wouldn't that be fantastic? Dec 21 17:05:12 toally Dec 21 17:05:31 but I think there's really not a lot to change - if they use SDL, e.g. Dec 21 17:08:56 I have a simple PDK sample, which may help Dec 21 17:09:00 Let me grab the link Dec 21 17:10:22 http://joshuagranick.com/code/pdk/ Dec 21 17:10:38 There's two samples which are super-simple build examples for webOS Dec 21 17:10:53 Using an SDL main loop which throttles well, handles input, etc. Dec 21 17:11:17 The PDK is basically straightforward C/C++ and SDL Dec 21 17:11:33 Very, very similar to regular Linux C/C++ Dec 21 18:24:01 is webos dead? Dec 21 18:24:51 should i pick up a palm pixi plus at at&t Dec 21 18:25:05 I wouldn't recommend using your upgrade on that Dec 21 18:25:31 visionary: webOS is technically not dead, as they plan on making it open source at sometime in the future, but it certainly isn't going anywhere fast Dec 21 18:26:38 twbbas: what would you recommend? Dec 21 18:27:03 visionary: For your upgrade? iPhone or any new Android phone. Dec 21 18:27:19 visionary: grab a galaxy S II skyrocket... it has LTE, incredibly fast Dec 21 18:27:22 ya, for an upgrade Dec 21 18:29:06 what about the pre 3? Dec 21 18:29:24 You can get the Pixi Plus for $39 unlocked Dec 21 18:29:25 http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=palm+pixi+plus+att&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4261882950166418841&sa=X&ei=DSTyTszhFYOXiALMpNjFDg&ved=0CE4Q8wIwAg Dec 21 18:29:32 visionary: any webOS device is going to be a waste right now dude, that's what we're telling you Dec 21 18:29:39 So if you were interested, it would be better to get it that way, probably, than using an upgrade Dec 21 18:30:01 The Veer is more powerful, though, and has a similar screen-size (sort of similar form factor) Dec 21 18:30:05 That's what I'm using Dec 21 18:30:25 Oh yeah, Veer is nice Dec 21 18:30:28 I was using a Galaxy S for a while... I got that when my last Android phone (for development) blew up Dec 21 18:30:30 I forgot AT&T still sells that Dec 21 18:30:38 singmajesty: honestly, HP can claim webOS isn't dead, but how many developers do you think are bringing their apps there after iOS/Android Dec 21 18:30:42 But I just switched back to the Veer, and I'm much happier -- I really love webOS Dec 21 18:30:44 zero, no one wastes their time Dec 21 18:31:05 singmajesty: do you still have the galaxy S? Dec 21 18:31:19 Isn't Astraware porting their games still? Dec 21 18:31:20 Yeah, there are a couple apps that would have be nice to have that I use on the iPod or Android Dec 21 18:31:20 webos phones are dead. you should get a nokia N9 instead Dec 21 18:31:26 like Soundcloud Dec 21 18:31:38 But I'm still a lot happier with the Veer than the Galaxy Dec 21 18:31:45 directhex: -_- don't troll Dec 21 18:31:58 I hope that open sourcing webOS means we'll see it on more phones Dec 21 18:31:59 singmajesty: throw ICS on the galaxy Dec 21 18:32:12 (Though I would still miss the gesture area) Dec 21 18:32:16 Is that available? Dec 21 18:32:17 i have a nexus S and a galaxy nexus both running android 4.0 Dec 21 18:32:20 it's Dec 21 18:32:21 insane. Dec 21 18:32:30 i mean, keep in mind i'm a fan of android in the first place Dec 21 18:32:44 but the hardware acceleration, all of the new features, new UI, absolutely sick Dec 21 18:32:53 I'm not sure if I could -- I need the phone to test applications Dec 21 18:33:00 Tommy, trolling, moi? Dec 21 18:33:10 they still seem to be working on the os as there was an update recently Dec 21 18:33:14 If I'm using a newer OS than everyone else, it might not replicate the same issues Dec 21 18:33:15 singmajesty: what better way than testing on android 4.0? plenty of apps still aren't compatible with it, pain in the ass Dec 21 18:33:41 Yeah, Google did that to me with the new SDK tools (broke the old build process) and the new NDK (broke the paths) Dec 21 18:33:51 SE already released android 4.0 for their phones (an alpha version mind you), the nexus S and galaxy nexus both have official OTA's Dec 21 18:33:54 we just ordered 67 N9's for the office... Dec 21 18:34:16 directhex: meego? seriously? Dec 21 18:34:23 you're going to be the only people on the planet using it Dec 21 18:35:18 it seems nokia's shifting their main focus to windows phone because microsoft paid them over a billion dollars to Dec 21 18:35:26 is meego dead? Dec 21 18:35:31 visionary, yes. Dec 21 18:35:35 deader than webos Dec 21 18:35:39 sigh Dec 21 18:35:56 visionary: meego is a new-ish OS, but nokia's the only company involved in it, and even they're focusing elsewhere Dec 21 18:36:03 webos is alive thanks to open sourcing (in theory) and ongoing support from hp (in theory) Dec 21 18:36:11 so i'm not sure if i'd call it "dead", but it certainly doesn't have much developer support Dec 21 18:36:12 its sad that webos and meego are dead/dieing because both have some pretty cool ideas Dec 21 18:36:19 whereas meego has no sponsors at all, and wasn't fully open, and won't ever be Dec 21 18:36:28 n9 isn't even really meego Dec 21 18:36:28 Someone asked me just today if NME could run on Meego Dec 21 18:36:29 mscoolnerd: agreed, but there are just too many platforms out there for everyone to be competitive Dec 21 18:36:49 Well, as far as apps are concerned... Dec 21 18:36:56 The point is moot if you are using something like NME Dec 21 18:36:59 yeah, i know haha Dec 21 18:37:00 Same app on Android, iOS and webOS Dec 21 18:37:13 at this point, if you want app support, you're getting iOS or Android, that's what it comes down to Dec 21 18:37:27 It used to be... before the iPhone... Dec 21 18:37:31 That phones were about PIM Dec 21 18:37:32 and to me, i customize my phone far too much to use iOS, but apps are really what makes a smartphone Dec 21 18:37:42 these days that's how it is Dec 21 18:38:18 I mostly use my phone for email and twitter, and I think the webOS email app is better than K9, and I like Bad Kitty better than the Twitter app on Android (which kept locking up) Dec 21 18:38:36 lol i've never had twitter lock up on me Dec 21 18:38:43 then again i stopped using it a few months ago Dec 21 18:38:45 It'll happen if you minimize it Dec 21 18:38:49 google+/facebook are the only social networking i need Dec 21 18:38:53 You come back too quickly and it is locked on a white screen Dec 21 18:38:55 (or did) Dec 21 18:38:55 any deals on the Pre3? Dec 21 18:39:02 Pre3 is difficult to find, I think Dec 21 18:39:38 singmajesty: i use gmail for email, have since like 2004 and that's not changing, so 3rd party email clients are a non-issue for me Dec 21 18:39:39 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hp+pre3 Dec 21 18:39:45 Ah, I see Dec 21 18:39:46 So, no new hardware for webos n the horizon, right? Dec 21 18:39:55 I have 5+ email addresses Dec 21 18:39:59 i have 3 Dec 21 18:40:09 Actually, I've been A LOT happier since I started using my own shared hosting server instead of webmail Dec 21 18:40:11 my school's email is a google apps account (thank god they decided to use that) Dec 21 18:40:15 and the other 2 are gmail addresses Dec 21 18:40:34 Unlimited storage, and it isn't weird with IMAP clients, like Gmail Dec 21 18:40:45 I don't know why, but Gmail is weird in the way they do their IMAP folders Dec 21 18:40:54 Oh, and Google doesn't read my email Dec 21 18:40:55 IMAP is so 2003 Dec 21 18:40:56 That's a nice feature ;) Dec 21 18:41:01 lulz Dec 21 18:41:08 i like to think they don't read mine either :P Dec 21 18:41:16 Tommy: do you prefer pop3? :P Dec 21 18:41:29 mscoolnerd: i prefer to log into the gmail app and let it push me emails, i don't set up shit :D Dec 21 18:41:54 ah hahaha ok Dec 21 18:42:32 It is probably using IMAP under the hood Dec 21 18:42:56 Maybe IMAP IDLE Dec 21 18:43:07 Oh, and Opera supports IMAP IDLE, which is fun Dec 21 18:43:10 Push mail on the desktop Dec 21 18:43:11 mango is the future? Dec 21 18:43:24 Everyone is different -- Dec 21 18:43:26 singmajesty: yeah probably, but my point is just that it's one of the reasons android has worked out so well for me Dec 21 18:43:46 If you need a phone for contacts, calendar, email, etc, I personally think webOS is still the best bet Dec 21 18:43:51 so many people complain "oh my god i need a gmail account for this phone", i've used one since i was a sophomore in high school and i'm now 23 years old, so it's all good with me Dec 21 18:43:59 singmajesty: lol why, i have all of that synced with my account all the same Dec 21 18:44:01 If you need a phone for games, there will be more selection for other platforms Dec 21 18:44:22 Or if there is a "must have" application that isn't supported on webOS Dec 21 18:44:45 webOS handles multi-tasking, copy/paste, etc, more seamlessly than iOS or Android Dec 21 18:45:04 singmajesty: ....android 2.x, yes Dec 21 18:45:04 So that's why I would say, the TouchPad is great for work, the iPad is nice if you want a specific game and that's what you are going to use it for Dec 21 18:45:06 4.x? no Dec 21 18:45:17 Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender Dec 21 18:45:19 singmajesty: that's why i said you should grab ice cream sammich Dec 21 18:46:14 singmajesty: or you could dual boot android on the tp so you can play android games :P Dec 21 18:47:10 lol Dec 21 18:47:32 Maybe I would feel differently about Android if I was not a developer Dec 21 18:47:41 I think that webOS has spoiled me Dec 21 18:47:54 pdk-device-install install Dec 21 18:47:57 I have SSH, now Dec 21 18:48:00 novaterm Dec 21 18:48:03 I'm on a root shell Dec 21 18:48:12 No jailbreaking, no back doors Dec 21 18:48:25 Doctor the thing and I'm brand new again Dec 21 18:48:28 No leaked builds Dec 21 18:48:45 If webOS open-source takes off, I want a distro for my laptop Dec 21 18:48:54 But maybe that's just me :) Dec 21 18:49:18 I like that I can install haxe, g++, whatever I want on a TouchPad without hacking it Dec 21 18:49:31 Dev, compile and run on the same device? Kind of fun :) Dec 21 18:49:39 But I would like it more if I could do that on a laptop Dec 21 18:50:41 Lol Dec 21 18:50:45 you crazy people Dec 21 18:50:53 looking at prices the att pixi is more expensive than the verizon version Dec 21 18:51:19 Pixi is not a good choice. Its old + underpowered vs, well, anything Dec 21 18:51:23 even my watch Dec 21 18:51:27 which is analog Dec 21 18:51:36 how about the pixi plus? Dec 21 18:51:46 pixi plus = pixi + wifi Dec 21 18:52:33 veer then? Dec 21 18:52:37 Pixi is 500Mhz, I think Dec 21 18:52:42 the veer is a nice little device Dec 21 18:52:47 Veer is nice Dec 21 18:52:52 But get the black one Dec 21 18:52:56 Veer is more powerful than the Pre Plus Dec 21 18:53:11 Feels about as snappy as the Pre 2 Dec 21 18:53:14 the white one makes scratchy noises due to its case material Dec 21 18:53:26 singmajesty overclocked? Dec 21 18:53:45 http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=veer+black+unlocked&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=7268717807693839239&sa=X&ei=xSnyTr7MGPHXiAL2oYDODg&ved=0CEwQ8wIwBA Dec 21 18:53:50 I haven't overclocked mine Dec 21 18:53:53 I probably should Dec 21 18:54:02 The GPU is better than the Pre 2 Dec 21 18:54:06 Same memory Dec 21 18:54:09 It makes a decent difference. Dec 21 18:54:11 (If I'm remembering correctly) Dec 21 18:54:15 More memory than pre3 Dec 21 18:54:18 summatusmentis: I can't see it in my catalog, but I have been assured that it is there (somewhere)....the app is Zite Dec 21 18:54:25 * oil would use it if he could get it on sprint Dec 21 18:54:38 silly sprint people Dec 21 18:54:39 * singmajesty shakes his digital fist at Sprint Dec 21 18:55:04 sprint seems to be less evil then at&t Dec 21 18:55:04 i could have upgraded to the veer last week on att Dec 21 18:55:08 * oil votes with his wallet Dec 21 18:55:19 * halfhalo votes with a brick Dec 21 18:55:33 * halfhalo also likes faster speeds on att Dec 21 18:55:59 I vote with a baseball bat Dec 21 18:56:29 The Chicago way? Dec 21 18:56:31 shush you! you get no vote until you get node 0.6.x to build for arm. Dec 21 18:56:31 * scoutcamper likes having 5 bars of vzw at his house. unlike other carriers Dec 21 18:56:46 :( Dec 21 18:56:52 * singmajesty lives in the woods, where no carriers go except AT&T Dec 21 18:57:11 Actually, I don't even get reception at my house Dec 21 18:57:12 I've been trying to get 0.4.12 to build Dec 21 18:57:23 i think 0.6.x should be easier Dec 21 18:57:24 .4.12 should build fine Dec 21 18:57:30 does for me via widk Dec 21 18:57:42 weird Dec 21 18:57:57 it is in nonworking/ Dec 21 18:58:10 my env could be borked though Dec 21 18:58:44 if i build using waf, configure errors out Dec 21 18:58:56 with what errors? Dec 21 18:59:15 cant find pthread.h Dec 21 18:59:38 silly node people Dec 21 18:59:38 Oh, THAT was a bitch to fix Dec 21 19:00:05 but iirc telling widk to build everything until it died sometime after node fixed that. Dec 21 19:00:36 don't recall what exactly is needed to built node in widk which isn't already a marked prereq Dec 21 19:00:56 I've wnt around it and been using cmake Dec 21 19:01:05 went* Dec 21 19:01:28 Only prerq in the makefile is python Dec 21 19:01:41 but openssl should be one too Dec 21 19:02:03 unless you explicitly diable it in the makefile Dec 21 19:02:06 it might need libtool built in widk for pthreads, and 0.6.x needs something new as well Dec 21 19:02:43 libtool wants to make me stab myself in the eye Dec 21 19:03:04 yeah Dec 21 19:03:14 thats why i just tell it to build everything the first time Dec 21 19:03:21 If I pass --verbose when running node-waf I get a segfault Dec 21 19:03:23 then don't have to worry! Dec 21 19:04:53 hmm. only have 0.4.11 binary saved Dec 21 19:08:10 but 0.4.12 just build fine for me Dec 21 19:08:14 back, sorry Dec 21 19:08:44 lol singmajesty, i have ssh and a root shell and adb install packagename.apk Dec 21 19:08:59 so nothing you just named is any advantage at all, you just don't know so you assume it isn't available elsewhere Dec 21 19:09:07 to lazy to git checkout 0.6.5 and see what is failing atm tho Dec 21 19:09:27 Hey Tommy, I just meant its officially supported, out of the box Dec 21 19:09:31 singmajesty: same here. Dec 21 19:09:34 You can have SSH on an iPhone, too Dec 21 19:09:43 because i have a nexus s and a galaxy nexus, both phones officially support bootloader unlocks and root Dec 21 19:09:50 i had a geeksphone one that came out of the box rooted Dec 21 19:09:52 I'll modify the one in widk and take a look at 0.6.5. Dec 21 19:09:58 Ah, again I'm talking about my experiences with LG and Samsung Dec 21 19:10:01 geeksphone zero is the same Dec 21 19:10:13 right, but i'm just saying, don't assume "android" is a single entity, that's the most common error Dec 21 19:10:15 ANY webOS device can novaterm Dec 21 19:10:21 yeah, wait till webOS goes open source Dec 21 19:10:34 manufacturers change shit, your experience isn't what google provided, it's what samsung and LG altered it to be Dec 21 19:11:23 that's why your galaxy S has touchwhiz and your LG phone probably looks very similar (they ripped off samsung's UI completely) Dec 21 19:11:41 Tommy: Except the Galaxy Nexus? Dec 21 19:12:04 visionary: the nexus one, nexus S, galaxy nexus, xoom are all pure google devices with bootloader unlocks available Dec 21 19:12:04 nice, is gameloft just systematically making all their games cheaper? Dec 21 19:12:15 shrek kart HD is now 99c and so is nova2 Dec 21 19:12:31 sony ericsson, motorola and HTC are allowing bootloader unlocks on their phones unless carriers don't allow it, but they still use their changed UI's Dec 21 19:12:43 I think it might be a holiday sale, dwc- Dec 21 19:12:58 dwc-: dude have you seen NFL Pro 2012? awesome gameloft game, and free Dec 21 19:13:12 might be a bit hard to play on your screen size, but it's effin sweet Dec 21 19:14:18 hello guys Dec 21 19:14:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LcG0Ev27Qr8&hd=1 Dec 21 19:15:42 I'm just pissed it doesnt want to compile for me Dec 21 19:16:39 googlehas to much money and to much time Dec 21 19:17:22 lulz Dec 21 19:17:34 because they made an ad for the galaxy nexus? Dec 21 19:17:49 look at how much apple spends on advertising, compare it to a little happy holidays ad from the android dev team Dec 21 19:18:14 singmajesty: btw, gmail is weird with imap folders because they're actually labels Dec 21 19:18:36 Tommy: no, it's not for webos Dec 21 19:18:53 dwc-: :( shame Dec 21 19:19:19 dwc-: http://cdn.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/files/imagecache/w550h500/postimages/26462/nfl_pro_20120.jpg Dec 21 19:19:58 not bad Dec 21 19:20:10 it's tons of fun Dec 21 19:20:35 the last football video game I played was joe montana football... Dec 21 19:20:39 lol Dec 21 19:21:04 sega genesis, thereabouts of what, maybe 1992? Dec 21 19:23:33 spyro on the ps1 Dec 21 19:24:51 * Compn waits for arm based psx emulator Dec 21 19:25:00 EricBlade1: why, whyyy do you wait until -after- I purchase the "pre" version to flag the full version for my device Dec 21 19:26:47 so, you people are mobile developers? Dec 21 19:27:08 some Dec 21 19:27:24 why are you hanging our in the webos irc? Dec 21 19:27:36 some are random users/enthusiasts, some are hp/palm employees, some are just idlers, some are just trolls Dec 21 19:27:37 visionary: yes I have wheelchair :P Dec 21 19:28:20 anyone know jesse? he worked on the ui Dec 21 19:28:49 i guess i am a troll Dec 21 19:29:05 me too Dec 21 19:29:07 :) Dec 21 19:29:20 (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender << -- i think i have a new addition to my signature Dec 21 19:30:24 lol you guys are such morons Dec 21 19:31:29 "oh hay, i'm 3 versions behind in an OS with 30x the marketshare of the one i'm using, and criticizing features that have been changed 3 times since then" Dec 21 19:33:19 changed but not fixed? 30x marketshare than the #2 tablet...means Android is #1? what happened to the fruit place? Dec 21 19:33:27 not fixed? Dec 21 19:33:34 sugardave: have you used multitasking in ICS? Dec 21 19:33:50 nope, but I've had it described to me....sounds painful Dec 21 19:33:53 1 tap to access all running apps, swipe to get rid of them, tap to open them... problem? Dec 21 19:33:58 how is that painful? Dec 21 19:34:36 do I get to see the apps running or do I have to trust the os? Can I put them in a stacked view? can I...nevermind, I remember you, troll Dec 21 19:34:53 sugardave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJyVNrxGonU Dec 21 19:35:37 you hit the multitasking button to show a list of the running apps with their current state, you can scroll up and down through it and toss them to the side... kinda like cards, but vertical instead of horizontal Dec 21 19:36:03 I've found a lot of apps don't multi-task well on my GSII Dec 21 19:36:25 twbbas: again, your GS2 isn't on the newest version of android because you left the updates to samsung :\ Dec 21 19:36:42 and they'd rather spend months putting together touchwhiz 4.0 before giving it to you, rather than just compiling android and shipping it out in a week Dec 21 19:36:47 It was on the newest until the Nexus came out Dec 21 19:36:49 If I was using a new version of webOS that no one else had Dec 21 19:37:07 twbbas: android 4.0 source was released on 11/14 i believe Dec 21 19:37:11 It would be a hard sell for me to criticize people for comparing other operating systems to the current version of webOS Dec 21 19:37:15 5 weeks later you don't have an update, both of my phones do Dec 21 19:37:22 Instead of the new version I have that no one else has Dec 21 19:37:25 singmajesty: no one else has it? Dec 21 19:37:26 twbbas: are you using the stock android or cyanogenmod? Dec 21 19:37:26 Tommy: But what consumer product had 4.0 on 11/14? Dec 21 19:37:35 mscoolnerd: whatever came with my phone Dec 21 19:37:35 twbbas: none, this is 5 weeks later. Dec 21 19:37:39 novo tablet had ics :P Dec 21 19:37:54 now my nexus S got the OTA update, my galaxy nexus came with it, sony ericsson is pushing out ICS updates to 3 of their phones Dec 21 19:38:00 (xperia arc, xperia neo and something else? i forget) Dec 21 19:38:04 I'm just saying... Dec 21 19:38:13 but YOU chose a samsung phone... samsung doesn't update shit, and you blame google somehow Dec 21 19:38:17 If you ran the statistics, I'm sure the number of ICS users would be *very* low Dec 21 19:38:23 over-the-air updates? OMG THE INNOVATION! Dec 21 19:38:24 singmajesty: it's _open source_ Dec 21 19:38:26 I'm not blaming anyone :) Dec 21 19:38:32 you don't understand open source do you? lulz Dec 21 19:38:36 In 4.0 do apps actually run in the background now? Or do they still pause? That's the problem I have with it and why a lot of apps I've tried don't multi-task well. Dec 21 19:39:09 twbbas: lol apps have been able to run in the background for a long while now Dec 21 19:39:13 pausing !== multi-tasking Dec 21 19:39:13 Flash 11 came out, with Stage 3D APIs Dec 21 19:39:16 that's why you can listen to pandora while playing a game.... Dec 21 19:39:21 * dwc- yawns Dec 21 19:39:21 And Flash 10.1 has been out for a while Dec 21 19:39:26 11.1* Dec 21 19:39:28 But I still target Flash 10 because that's what most people have Dec 21 19:39:43 I'm not going to make arguments based on Flash 11, yet, because most people don't have it. Dec 21 19:39:48 But if I quit out of the game to check a text, it takes a while to get back to where I was. Dec 21 19:39:56 singmajesty: yeah, so why don't you make your app work with the older version then upgrade to the newer and make it work with that too? Dec 21 19:40:09 Because I am developing an application platform Dec 21 19:40:11 Not an app :) Dec 21 19:40:25 So when someone tells me they have a problem on their Android phone, I want to be able to replicate Dec 21 19:40:26 twbbas: it's instant on my galaxy sexus, dunno what to tell ya Dec 21 19:40:37 singmajesty: so then you need every phone out there! Dec 21 19:40:45 Hopefully not! Dec 21 19:40:46 because your samsung is running samsung's version of android, not AOSP Dec 21 19:40:48 Tommy: Yes, the app switches instantly but the way it pauses... the game has to start up and load everything again. Dec 21 19:40:49 I don't for webOS :) Dec 21 19:40:57 twbbas: no, it doesn't, i just did it lol Dec 21 19:41:10 Nor every iOS device Dec 21 19:41:20 twbbas: i was playing NFL Pro 2012 HD, i hit the home button, opened android market, then hit the multitasking button and chose NFL Pro 2012 HD again... i'm right back at the pause screen Dec 21 19:41:20 (though I'm not saying that's all rosy ... different versions of XCode are a pain!) Dec 21 19:41:32 singmajesty: because there's only 1 phone on both platforms lololol Dec 21 19:41:38 huh? Dec 21 19:41:39 Maybe that app is fine but most games I've found take a while to get back to where you where when you just want to check a text. Dec 21 19:41:49 Pre, Pre Plus, Pixi, Pixi Plus, Pre 2, Veer, Pre 3 Dec 21 19:41:51 pre/+/2/3, pixi/+, veer, so much difference Dec 21 19:41:52 yeah Dec 21 19:41:55 they're not all the same or anything Dec 21 19:42:02 same form factor, same OS Dec 21 19:42:09 Three form factors Dec 21 19:42:13 but then webOS goes open source Dec 21 19:42:21 and you're going to shit yourself because the same thing's going to happen Dec 21 19:42:27 We'll see :) Dec 21 19:42:33 OH MY GOD everyone has webOS 3.x but 5.x is out, WHY WONT HTC UPDATE THEIR PHONES Dec 21 19:42:35 Ubuntu doesn't have the problems Android has Dec 21 19:42:38 ...because, it's open source. Dec 21 19:42:45 Ubuntu is more open than Android Dec 21 19:43:06 lol, apples to oranges much? Dec 21 19:43:27 http://www.techspot.com/news/44975-report-eclipse-is-the-most-open-project-android-the-least.html Dec 21 19:43:34 * dwc- wonders why people are still talking Dec 21 19:43:37 * Tommy cries you a river Dec 21 19:43:38 haha Dec 21 19:43:48 I'm just saying -- don't blame open source Dec 21 19:43:50 dwc-, me too Dec 21 19:43:51 Linux is open source Dec 21 19:43:53 Ubuntu is open source Dec 21 19:43:57 My framework is open source Dec 21 19:44:02 They don't have the same fragmentation issues Dec 21 19:44:12 Open source does not necessitate the headaches people face over Google Dec 21 19:44:13 singmajesty: i'm saying, look at the mobile world Dec 21 19:44:15 not PC's Dec 21 19:44:22 Plus, maybe it would be better if Android was ACTUALLY open source Dec 21 19:44:23 what's a better open source mobile OS? Dec 21 19:44:26 during development Dec 21 19:44:31 Instead of doing a code drop Dec 21 19:44:33 during development, lmao, right. Dec 21 19:44:33 dwc-: people are still having sex, too Dec 21 19:44:41 because then as they're developing things, apple can patent them Dec 21 19:44:45 How could you EXPECT Samsung to have it on their phones when Google has had it for half a year? Dec 21 19:44:46 and by the time they release they face 8 more lawsuits Dec 21 19:44:49 sugardave: well, they should do that, instead of arguing here Dec 21 19:44:51 mobile. is. different. Dec 21 19:44:56 That's the reason why it is on the nexus and not anything els.e Dec 21 19:45:00 singmajesty: ummm, sony ericsson has it on their phones Dec 21 19:45:07 Because Google has not released the code to anyone but a few. Dec 21 19:45:10 samsung is worse than SE, why's that? SE has no advantage. Dec 21 19:45:14 I hope that webOS open source changes that. Dec 21 19:45:17 because samsung sucks. Dec 21 19:45:30 Okay, so Android is cool Dec 21 19:45:35 singmajesty: how often does ubuntu have to worry about getting sued over patents? 50x a year? Dec 21 19:45:38 Except for *those manufacturers who suck* Dec 21 19:45:39 * mscoolnerd wonders why people done just ditch the manufacturer updates and use cyanogenmod Dec 21 19:45:43 *don't Dec 21 19:45:54 mscoolnerd: most do, but these guys want something to complain about Dec 21 19:46:06 if he wanted ICS on his GS2 he could probably do it himself, but he'd rather cry about having 2.3 because he's a webOS fan Dec 21 19:46:26 I could put OS X on my PC Dec 21 19:46:28 So what Dec 21 19:46:37 Because I *can* doesn't mean it is normal Dec 21 19:46:40 mscoolnerd: see? Dec 21 19:46:45 hahaha yup Dec 21 19:46:58 singmajesty: there are like 500,000 cyanogenmod active installs... Dec 21 19:47:03 "What do you mean OS X doesn't have good hardware? My PC has ROCKIN hardware" Dec 21 19:47:04 but i guess it's such a niche that half a million people are doing it Dec 21 19:47:15 it's SO DIFFICULT to do that half a million idiots can figure it out Dec 21 19:47:17 "What do you mean macs are expensive? My hackintosh was a bargain for what I get!" Dec 21 19:47:25 * Tommy rolls eyes Dec 21 19:47:35 yeah, how's the performance on hackintosh? garbage, because it's not open source Dec 21 19:47:45 this wifi card doesn't work, that bluetooth adapter doesn't work, there's always some issue Dec 21 19:47:53 Ah, so now open source is a good thing Dec 21 19:47:56 please, someone stab me in the eyes Dec 21 19:47:57 And not a reason for fragmentation Dec 21 19:48:11 lol Dec 21 19:48:11 i never said open source was a bad thing Dec 21 19:48:17 only 500,000? gartner lists 115m smartphones in 2001 Q3 alone Dec 21 19:48:23 i said devices not being updated is a product of open source, because the manufacturers only push what they want Dec 21 19:48:27 of which half were android Dec 21 19:48:34 Why are you in #webos, anyway? Dec 21 19:48:47 singmajesty: waiting for the sauce! Dec 21 19:48:47 500000/(115000000/2)*100 Dec 21 19:48:47 .86956521739130434700 Dec 21 19:48:52 hey, that's like < 1% Dec 21 19:48:55 that's like... webos marketshare Dec 21 19:48:59 dwc-: yeah, <1% of users give a shit Dec 21 19:49:15 dwc-: also keep in mind, cyanogenmod is a SINGLE custom build Dec 21 19:49:19 bullshit, you've been in here being a PITA since long before the open source initiative was announced Dec 21 19:49:28 look on the internet, there are about 5,000 different builds you can use Dec 21 19:49:52 Tommy: I can't get CyanogenMod on my GSII because they haven't made it yet for the Sprint version. Dec 21 19:49:52 iirc didn't samsung support cyanogenmod or hire the main developer or something like that? Dec 21 19:49:54 you're the one that said it's a niche Dec 21 19:49:56 not me Dec 21 19:49:58 so .86% of android smartphone users use a SINGLE build made by ONE team of developers in their basements Dec 21 19:50:11 speaking specifically about cyanogen Dec 21 19:50:30 dwc-: if i asked my mom if she wanted cyanogenmod on her RAZR, she'd say no, i promise Dec 21 19:50:41 I want cyanogenmod on my razr Dec 21 19:50:43 because she's happy with her phone how it is, no worries Dec 21 19:50:44 oh wait, different razr Dec 21 19:50:47 lulz Dec 21 19:50:49 * dwc- has a razr v3 Dec 21 19:50:52 so go port it :) Dec 21 19:50:59 i had a few razr v3's back in the day Dec 21 19:51:05 port a touchscreen OS to a 15-key? pass. Dec 21 19:51:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Market_share Dec 21 19:51:28 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich 14-15 0% Dec 21 19:51:32 dwc-: touchscreen OS? you realize when android started it wasn't meant to be touchscreen right? Dec 21 19:51:37 hence, open source. lulz. Dec 21 19:51:38 When it gets above 0%, maybe I'll listen Dec 21 19:51:46 yea, sounds great. lemme go get android 0.9 Dec 21 19:51:48 singmajesty: oh right, wikipedia, good source. Dec 21 19:51:50 when was it updated? Dec 21 19:52:01 You can't complain that people are comparing 99+% of Android use Dec 21 19:52:01 dwc-: open source, son... you don't need to make it touchscreen Dec 21 19:52:07 singmajesty: your stats are bogus Dec 21 19:52:18 wikipedia? lol Dec 21 19:52:23 http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html Dec 21 19:52:24 cool, then I can run "android" and be compatible with nothing. sounds like a plan. Dec 21 19:52:27 0.8% Dec 21 19:52:34 I'll do it all without hardware documentation too Dec 21 19:52:41 No, sorry Dec 21 19:52:43 0 Dec 21 19:52:45 singmajesty: as of december 1st Dec 21 19:52:56 since then, nexus S got the update, so did 3 sony ericsson phones Dec 21 19:53:04 as of december 1st, the only phone to have it was the galaxy nexus Dec 21 19:53:14 not to mention the unofficial ports that have broken through in the last 3 weeks Dec 21 19:53:19 * dwc- has better things to do Dec 21 19:53:26 (you realize it was open sourced in mid november and you're crying about how many phones had it at the beginning of december?) Dec 21 19:53:34 2 weeks? really? okay. Dec 21 19:53:36 A whole two weeks. Dec 21 19:53:43 hahahahaha Dec 21 19:53:48 A WHOLE TWO WEEKS hahaha Dec 21 19:53:51 dwc: where's your hacker spirit? maybe you could run doom on it :P Dec 21 19:53:53 December 1st was two weeks ago. Dec 21 19:54:01 3 weeks ago Dec 21 19:54:03 can you do math? Dec 21 19:54:03 two/three Dec 21 19:54:25 singmajesty: two weeks is not enough to port, but 5 is. Dec 21 19:54:31 haha Dec 21 19:54:32 dwc-: thank you. Dec 21 19:54:33 5 is omg why haven't they done it yet Dec 21 19:54:37 haha Dec 21 19:54:38 exactly! Dec 21 19:54:45 Look. Dec 21 19:54:51 If there is alpha build of Ubuntu Dec 21 19:54:51 dwc-: well, between 2 and 5 weeks is when SE ported their 3 phones to ICS Dec 21 19:54:54 so go figure ;) Dec 21 19:55:06 singmajesty: ubuntu is an update-it-yourself OS, it doesn't depend on manufacturers, mobile world is completely separate Dec 21 19:55:07 You can't argue that people are dissing on Ubuntu, when Ubuntu Alpha IS SO AWESOME Dec 21 19:55:09 * dwc- tries to care and fails Dec 21 19:55:11 you're comparing apples to oranges Dec 21 19:55:16 Wait until it becomes a regular build that regular people use. Dec 21 19:55:23 0% of users have ICS Dec 21 19:55:27 ^^^lol Dec 21 19:55:32 When 40% of users have it, let's talk. Dec 21 19:55:34 * Tommy isn't the 99%... he's the 0% Dec 21 19:55:45 xD Dec 21 19:55:48 http://damnyouautocorrect.com/15313/worst-christmas-ever/ - look! webOS! Dec 21 19:56:03 also i think it's funny that they only start counting at android 1.5 Dec 21 19:56:15 Those are Google's statistics. Dec 21 19:56:18 my android dev phone 1 has android 1.0 Dec 21 19:56:25 They are counting the users who access the Android market Dec 21 19:56:29 akanster: Patched webOS too! :D Dec 21 19:56:30 singmajesty: i understand that, and like i said, i think it's funny they only count 1.5+ Dec 21 19:56:36 None of my Android apps support 1.0 Dec 21 19:56:37 yes, i have android market on my android dev phone, 1.0 Dec 21 19:56:43 That's probably why they don't visit the Android market :) Dec 21 19:56:50 singmajesty: i only have it on there as a memento, so i can look at it and see how far it's come Dec 21 19:57:07 So 1.0 is too small for them to count in their statistics Dec 21 19:57:12 1.0 didn't have an on screen keyboard, my build is literally classified as a release candidate Dec 21 19:57:20 RC29 Dec 21 19:57:21 Actually, lets see how much is left Dec 21 19:58:06 Nope, they have 100% between those versions. Dec 21 19:58:37 hm? Dec 21 19:58:43 Honeycomb is 2.4% Dec 21 19:58:48 singmajesty: yeah, like i said, they're not counting 1.0 (or 4.0) at all Dec 21 19:58:52 And ICS is too small for them to count Dec 21 19:58:56 .... Dec 21 19:59:03 lolz Dec 21 19:59:05 trololo Dec 21 19:59:10 enjoy your deadOS Dec 21 19:59:19 how do you like all 25 apps available to you Dec 21 19:59:39 i hope you don't develop apps, because wow, you might sell 8 copies before people throw their phones away for upgrades Dec 21 19:59:39 Oh, I envy you. Dec 21 19:59:45 i would. Dec 21 19:59:50 I wish I was cool like you Dec 21 19:59:55 my phone has pentaband HSPA+, bow chicka wow wowww Dec 21 19:59:56 With a Google sexus Dec 21 19:59:56 <_minego> Tommy: What is the point of trolling here? If webOS is dead the we clearly aren't a threat to android. Please just go away. Dec 21 20:00:02 so when i travel, it werks errywhere Dec 21 20:00:09 So does my Pre 2 Dec 21 20:00:11 What's the deal Dec 21 20:00:14 akanster: better gutted than rutted Dec 21 20:00:27 _minego: i didn't come in and start trolling, relax fella. i like webOS, definitely not my #1 preference, but it's smooth and the cards UI is very clever/original though it's been ripped off a few times since then Dec 21 20:00:49 _minego: i didn't even start the android conversation, actually, but when people get to misinforming i have to keep everyone in the know ;) Dec 21 20:00:53 Well, I'm not in an "all or nothing" attitude Dec 21 20:00:58 http://www.haxenme.org Dec 21 20:01:07 Build games for Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS, webOS, Flash and HTML5 Dec 21 20:01:32 I'm just not going to upgrade my Android phone, because I need to experience what most users/developers will experience Dec 21 20:01:38 <_minego> Tommy: I don't care who started it. You're trolling now. Dec 21 20:01:40 When ICS becomes more popular, I'll upgrade. Dec 21 20:01:42 singmajesty: your pre 2 has pentaband HSPA+? first of all, it doesn't even have HSPA+ at all. Dec 21 20:01:55 My Veer does :) Dec 21 20:02:06 ....you just claimed your pre 2 did, who's trolling now? Dec 21 20:02:11 You just said, when you travel, it works everywhere. Dec 21 20:02:13 So does my Pre 2. Dec 21 20:02:16 and your veer is triband HSPA+, 850/1900/2100 Dec 21 20:02:25 wouldn't work on my network's HSPA+ Dec 21 20:02:40 Which network? Dec 21 20:02:47 well i move around a bit Dec 21 20:03:03 Everyone has reasons for choosing a platform Dec 21 20:03:14 When I travel, I need a phone and at least 3G data Dec 21 20:03:15 right now t-mobile USA (1700/2100), over the summer in australia optus (900/2100), in kenya i think it was just 2100 Dec 21 20:03:18 But I don't travel all the time Dec 21 20:03:29 So everyone has separate priorities Dec 21 20:03:32 singmajesty: your phone wouldn't get 3G data on t-mo or optus, but it would work on safaricom Dec 21 20:03:36 I need a phone for my email and Twitter Dec 21 20:03:45 I was using the Android, but I like the Veer better. That's me Dec 21 20:03:45 so you're 1/3 on the networks i've used this year Dec 21 20:03:51 I need an Android phone for application development Dec 21 20:03:56 and an iPod for application development Dec 21 20:04:02 And a Mac for application development Dec 21 20:04:03 ipawddd Dec 21 20:04:09 But I prefer my PC desktop for regular work Dec 21 20:04:14 lol yeah a mac because that's the only way the iOS sdk works =( Dec 21 20:04:19 Feels much more premium to me Dec 21 20:04:21 (they still don't have one for windows right?) Dec 21 20:04:22 Hey, Google's tools are a mess Dec 21 20:04:34 They are getting better Dec 21 20:04:41 at least they support all 3 platforms and always have, that's big IMO Dec 21 20:04:45 But I've had bugs I've had to workaround in their software for over a year Dec 21 20:04:49 So does webOS Dec 21 20:04:51 But it works Dec 21 20:04:54 singmajesty: report them? b.android.com Dec 21 20:05:13 So, like I said, I'm not in an "all or nothing" perspective Dec 21 20:05:22 I want to support iOS, Android, AND webOS Dec 21 20:05:22 as the android dev team always tells me, "patches welcome"... remember the whole open source thing? Dec 21 20:05:33 But I'm just saying, from my experience, webOS has always been the nicest to support Dec 21 20:05:41 singmajesty: tbh if i'm a developer i'm jumping on windows phone right now Dec 21 20:05:44 Though this is coming from a C/C++/OpenGL ES perspective Dec 21 20:05:53 oh, well that cahnges a lot right there Dec 21 20:05:57 I would like to support Windows Phone, but they don't allow C/C++ yet Dec 21 20:06:01 if you were a java developer you might not be in love with webOS Dec 21 20:06:11 If I were using Java and liked Eclipse, maybe I would feel differently Dec 21 20:06:13 Windows Phone has a really nice dev tools IMO Dec 21 20:06:19 But I can't stand eclipse. That's just me, again :) Dec 21 20:06:30 And C/C++ is cross-platform Dec 21 20:06:45 mscoolnerd: forget the dev tools, it has MSFT's bankroll backing it and all analysts say it's going to explode in marketshare and be at like 15-20% by 2014 Dec 21 20:06:49 I write in Haxe (similar to Actionscript 3 or kind of like Javascript++) and it compiles to C++ Dec 21 20:06:58 Later this year, Haxe is getting a C# target Dec 21 20:07:03 And early next year, a Java target Dec 21 20:07:05 mscoolnerd: if you could jump on that bandwagon now and come out with a great, hot game for cheap, you could score a tonnn out of it Dec 21 20:07:15 So with C# I might support Windows Phone, maybe Dec 21 20:07:56 Tommy: true true, the problem is that then I would have to boot into windows to do development and i don't want to do that Dec 21 20:08:05 i like linux :P Dec 21 20:08:12 mscoolnerd: yeah, that's the biggest thing that bugs me about iOS/WP7 development Dec 21 20:08:28 i shouldn't have to use your $100 OS (or your $2,000 computer in apple's case) to make a $0.99 app Dec 21 20:09:16 Tommy: yeah, when people bug me about making iOS apps i just tell them they could pay the $2000 for a mac and that usually shuts them up haha Dec 21 20:09:35 you should tell sony and nintendo that too... damn your expensive dev kits Dec 21 20:09:51 mscoolnerd: there's a lot of money to be made there, obviously, but when you think about the fact that you'd have to make 2 grand to break even that kinda humbles your profits Dec 21 20:09:52 dwc-: homebrew :P Dec 21 20:10:13 dwc-: that's the thing that people love and hate about android... $25, one time fee, for a market account, and you can post as many apps as you want from any platform Dec 21 20:10:44 but that means there are a lot of useless apps because you don't need to invest in it... though they've done a much better job of filtering market to find useful ones in the last 4 versions or so Dec 21 20:10:50 Tommy: yeah if i go down that road then i would make the app for android/webos first and if it makes at least the 2 grand then i would buy a mac and port it to iOS Dec 21 20:11:15 that's a good attitude Dec 21 20:11:32 I haven't heard a lot of success stories from iOS sales Dec 21 20:11:35 For smaller developers Dec 21 20:11:39 For huge developers, yes Dec 21 20:11:57 Unfortunately Dec 21 20:12:07 singmajesty: after the wifi sync debacle i would never go near iOS, apple is totally fucked up Dec 21 20:12:12 morally bankrupt is an understatement Dec 21 20:12:14 singmajesty: i've heard stories of college students making like 18 grand on apps before but i think thats the exception, not the rule Dec 21 20:12:37 * mscoolnerd agrees with Tommy Dec 21 20:13:01 mscoolnerd: there was a guy who submitted his "wifi sync" app to the app store, it got turned down because it used private API's or some shit, then apple released the same app with the same icon (no, seriously) in iOS5 Dec 21 20:13:13 I don't agree with Apple, but I am more scared by Google's invasion of privacy Dec 21 20:13:18 he made like $500,000 off of it on cydia though Dec 21 20:13:22 http://www.pcworld.com/article/229993/did_apple_steal_a_college_kids_wifi_sync_app.html Dec 21 20:13:31 Tommy: yeah i remember reading about that Dec 21 20:13:33 lol you're scared of google's invasion of privacy but not apple's? Dec 21 20:13:38 When they see all of your email, calendar, GPS, photos, messages, websites, videos, musics Dec 21 20:13:42 because apple doesn't track your location? oh wait, yeah they do Dec 21 20:13:46 they don't advertise? oh wait, iAd Dec 21 20:13:46 Apple doesn't seem "data hungry" like Google Dec 21 20:13:50 Like Goog-411 Dec 21 20:13:56 goog-411 is dead Dec 21 20:14:00 They openly said they did it because they wanted you voice Dec 21 20:14:04 Not to provide a service Dec 21 20:14:11 singmajesty: here's the way i look at things Dec 21 20:14:15 google makes money off of my information Dec 21 20:14:25 One company collects THAT MUCH data about everything, can make you a little worried Dec 21 20:14:26 i can choose one of two things in my life... use paid services, and pay out of pocket Dec 21 20:14:26 and mine! Dec 21 20:14:35 or give a little information, or in some cases a lot, and get the service for free Dec 21 20:14:47 Like Eagle Eye, but its Google, not the government, who knows everything Dec 21 20:14:53 i'm a poor college student, i understand the risks of the information i'm giving up, but information isn't putting food on my table Dec 21 20:15:07 How much is *that* worth to the right (read: wrong) bidder? Dec 21 20:15:27 singmajesty: google does their own advertising, they don't sell your information, let's get real Dec 21 20:15:45 this isn't carrier IQ giving your info to carriers and holding onto it themselves, it's a single company that has your information Dec 21 20:15:56 And all the information they can find on the internet Dec 21 20:16:03 And now Google+, because Facebook had information Google couldn't see Dec 21 20:16:08 are they unhackable? no company is... do i want them knowing EVERYTHING? of course not. but the information i give is a conscious payment on my part for their services Dec 21 20:16:21 Right, I just think, at some point... Dec 21 20:16:27 The US government has three branches to balance power Dec 21 20:16:36 Having that much information, in one company alone, is a lot of power Dec 21 20:16:42 singmajesty: i just think, at some point, if people have a major problem with what information they're giving out, they'll stop using google services Dec 21 20:16:44 it hasn't happened yet. Dec 21 20:16:45 With no checks or balances, practically Dec 21 20:17:02 ^^^very true, that's why google's always talking to congress about what information they're gathering Dec 21 20:17:06 Well, maybe I'm the only one who feels nervous Dec 21 20:17:07 because nobody checks up on them (?) Dec 21 20:17:13 singmajesty: in a way you could say that the users are the checks Dec 21 20:17:18 singmajesty: you're not, plenty of people boycott google services Dec 21 20:17:36 if they don't like google services they could just not use them anymore Dec 21 20:17:44 When you add Google Analytics, and such, you aren't always opting-in to their data collection Dec 21 20:17:46 when you first start up your android phone, it has checkboxes right in front of you, you don't need to dig into the settings... "allow google to use my location to better improve search results", etcetc Dec 21 20:18:00 you can uncheck them, they're provided to you AS THE FIRST THING when you start up your phone, before you enter the UI Dec 21 20:18:11 They'll take every tidbit they can find on the internet :) Dec 21 20:18:21 Then give you cookies and track you Dec 21 20:18:29 i keep that box checked, because i like searching for "the irish circle" and getting the bar near me rather than one in california Dec 21 20:18:39 but if you don't want them knowing your location, don't share it, the option's right there Dec 21 20:18:43 I don't mean to sound conspiratorial. I'm just saying :) Dec 21 20:19:01 singmajesty: dude i completely understand, my sister is very much like you, i set up her android phone so that there's nothing google on it at all. Dec 21 20:19:17 singmajesty: she has the amazon appstore, k9 mail, mapquest, etc... no google apps whatsoever. Dec 21 20:19:20 Or like Google Goggles. I think that's creepy Dec 21 20:19:24 ...the beauty of open source. Dec 21 20:19:48 so even though android's "only 23% open" i can remove everything google from it and compile a build with other services in their place Dec 21 20:21:07 Well, my bottom-line... Dec 21 20:21:14 Android is supported, as well as iOS and webOS Dec 21 20:21:26 Android, the OS, is the hardest to support of the three (on my end) Dec 21 20:21:38 iOS, the tools, are the hardest to support, at times Dec 21 20:21:59 There are new applications this week for Android using the framework Dec 21 20:22:13 singmajesty: i understand the detriment of having manufacturers using their own UI's and OS versions on phones, and having to support them all Dec 21 20:22:19 I think that a choice in smartphone OS should be a little like a browser Dec 21 20:22:29 but you also get the most users by far, as shown by marketshare Dec 21 20:22:32 I don't use Chrome, and I don't use Safari, and I don't use Firefox Dec 21 20:22:34 And that's okay Dec 21 20:22:39 I can still get the web like everyone else. Dec 21 20:22:48 So I would like to help applications work similarly Dec 21 20:23:03 So a choice in OS can be separate from whether they can use the application they want Dec 21 20:23:18 And so independent developers don't need to invest so much energy to share their work on a new OS Dec 21 20:23:43 So Android is not my choice for a personal phone. I've tried it a couple times, but I prefer the Veer for now. Dec 21 20:23:51 Either way, I'm developing for multiple platforms Dec 21 20:23:58 singmajesty: there's a perfect solution for that... Dec 21 20:24:03 start making HTML5 apps. Dec 21 20:24:07 And I will try not to be prejudiced or allow people's choices in platforms to become a personal thing Dec 21 20:24:10 Not good for games Dec 21 20:24:20 But, if you prefer it, NME does support export to HTML5 Dec 21 20:24:23 :\ yeah, def not as good as native Dec 21 20:24:26 Flash and C++ are just, much faster. Dec 21 20:24:34 lol i know Dec 21 20:24:46 I also use haxe because I prefer code completion and runtime error checking Dec 21 20:24:46 i've had this debate plenty of times with iphone users telling me how useless flash 11 on my phone is Dec 21 20:24:51 err... code time, error checking Dec 21 20:24:58 So I can use haxe to write Javascript Dec 21 20:25:07 But I have more fun working on games right now Dec 21 20:25:26 Adobe dropped a bomb on their developer base Dec 21 20:25:34 But fortunately there are other choices Dec 21 20:25:44 (NME mirrors the Flash API) Dec 21 20:25:58 So I will continue to use my favorite web browser (Opera) Dec 21 20:26:04 and my favorite mobile OS (webOS) Dec 21 20:26:11 And write games and applications that run for most platforms. Dec 21 20:27:14 singmajesty: i'm disappointed adobe is dropping flash mobile support Dec 21 20:27:30 i don't use it a ton, but i have the plugin set to on-demand so if i need it, i can tap the object and it loads Dec 21 20:32:24 lol. the 17 year old daughter just said she has to go to a (male) friend's house so he can help her with her programming assignment in school. Her mother just looked at her like she had a second head. 17yo said "Why are you looking at me like that?" mom said "You do realize that we've been living off of Eric's income .. as a PROGRAMMER.. right?" 17 yo says "I thought he made games." mom said "How do you think he -makes- the games?" Dec 21 20:32:53 haha Dec 21 20:33:43 rofl Dec 21 20:33:47 hahaha Dec 21 20:34:17 by way for black magic of course, how else would you make games? Dec 21 20:34:35 I guess technically, I will them in to existence .. but there's a lot of steps between that one, and the last one, most of which involve .. programming Dec 21 20:35:44 I thought choosing the right framework meant that games were made automatically? Dec 21 20:36:23 singmajesty: well, the guys at Epic have been working on adding a "Create Awesome Game" button into the Unreal Dev Kit, but it's really not quite ready to roll yet. Dec 21 20:36:41 haha Dec 21 20:36:59 So does Unreal work on webOS? Dec 21 20:37:11 Ever since I saw that demo a long time ago, I've always wondered Dec 21 20:37:22 Ben mentioned that Palm had it working in house at one time. I hope to get it working there again Dec 21 20:38:04 I haven't worked with any licensees since before the Mac OS X code came out, so I'm hoping that most of the things that needed fixing for Unix systems are cleared up by now Dec 21 20:39:30 Dungeon Defenders runs great in Android on the TouchPad Dec 21 20:39:54 well, ok, not iPad 2 levels of great, but way better than i thought it would. and a ton better than my iPod Dec 21 20:44:14 sugardave, +1 Dec 21 20:44:38 * EricBlade wonders if sugardave has said anything more about his awesome app Dec 21 20:44:54 I did! Dec 21 20:45:00 It's Zite Dec 21 20:45:26 dkirker: ping ping ping Dec 21 20:45:51 hi sugardave! Dec 21 20:45:53 sugardave: oh.. i picked that up first thing today Dec 21 20:46:21 I'd like to note that about all I ever tweet about is things involving webOS .. but it doesn't have a category for that, so it picked iPhones. Dec 21 20:46:22 same here after i saw it mentioned on twitter Dec 21 20:46:33 how do you like it? Dec 21 20:47:26 it's really quite neat. i wonder how it is on my really poor cell connection. Dec 21 20:47:31 and i wish it had a webos category :) Dec 21 20:47:56 EricBlade: If you feed it my twitter handle, webOS will be a category Dec 21 20:49:09 but i don't want sugardave's news, i want my news. :| Dec 21 20:50:08 ohhh NOW webOS shows up in the search box. it didn't this morning Dec 21 20:50:11 I'm surprised it won't have webOS in the search list, because they sure have it as a category Dec 21 20:50:17 there you go :P) Dec 21 20:50:19 :) Dec 21 20:51:01 it shows up there, but selecting it just turns on the Mobile category apparently Dec 21 20:51:32 that's a bug, actually...I don't have it auto-updating your list...but when you next go to the magazine, it SHOULD be in your category sections Dec 21 20:51:57 ohhh ok so it does Dec 21 20:52:09 the font on the sections side just got huge Dec 21 20:52:28 hmmm, they were mucking with CSS in the 11th hour last week Dec 21 20:52:28 maybe it was that large before. not sure. Dec 21 20:52:45 it used to be large, but then they made it sort of medium Dec 21 20:52:49 is the sections font supposed to be as large or larger than the headlines? Dec 21 20:55:27 aside from the occasional headline getting cut off by a pixel or two, it really looks quite very nice Dec 21 20:56:33 .. what does it use for news sources? it's quite extensive Dec 21 20:56:36 yeah, they have some weird algorithm based on font sizes for the headlines...unfortunately, we don't/can't use their fonts...so it's still being worked on Dec 21 20:57:03 EricBlade: no clue...they have a LOT of sources they pull from Dec 21 20:57:40 hey, somebody got a promotion Dec 21 20:59:10 EricBlade: you do realize the 17 year old just wanted the boy's dick, not his programming prowess, right? Dec 21 20:59:20 #parenting Dec 21 20:59:59 Tommy: i'd likely think it was more of an excuse to get out of the house so she could get some of her boyfriend, rather than the person she was claiming she had to go visit with Dec 21 21:00:38 though it is entirely possible she might be hopping from boy to boy, i do doubt it in this case. her younger sister, however, is going to be a major problem when she's in dating ages. Dec 21 21:01:05 We could read between the lines Dec 21 21:01:17 Its possible that is the case, but we don't need to talk about it that way Dec 21 21:01:32 but, yes, you are correct in the basic idea there - she wants to go get some, she doesn't want to go learn programming. Dec 21 21:01:42 That's why, even if it wasn't the case, there's wisdom in learning from home from dad instead :) Dec 21 21:02:22 EricBlade: nod Dec 21 21:02:54 even if she did, learning from parents and learning from peers is rather different Dec 21 21:02:56 I know people who will not allow themselves to spend time alone with a person of the opposite gender (without the door open, etc) to avoid appearances and to stay safe Dec 21 21:03:12 her sister is going to be a nightmare. she casually mentioned one day, when she was about 6, "it's ok to kiss boys and girls .. but not at the same time, right?" .... Dec 21 21:03:38 I tell my kids that kisses are for family, only Dec 21 21:03:42 When you are married, you become family. Dec 21 21:03:45 Until then, no. Dec 21 21:04:08 Obviously there is slightly more gray, for someone who is older, but that doesn't need to explained to kids when they are younger Dec 21 21:04:09 EricBlade: heh, good luck! Dec 21 21:04:16 EricBlade: and you responded "it's fine even at the same time, as long as you're not related to them" Dec 21 21:04:23 xD Dec 21 21:04:26 14:30 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- #webOS has the SECURE option enabled, and Dec 21 21:04:27 gross Dec 21 21:04:35 wth? Dec 21 21:05:01 what? Dec 21 21:05:05 well, unless you're in the south i guess Dec 21 21:05:13 sorry, didn't want to offend the rednex of the channel Dec 21 21:05:15 I pasted by touching something with my sleeve Dec 21 21:05:22 mouse button? Dec 21 21:05:48 touchpad? Dec 21 21:05:51 middle mouse? Dec 21 21:05:58 (computer touchpad, that is) Dec 21 21:05:59 Magic paste cufflinks? Dec 21 21:06:03 haha Dec 21 21:06:06 tap-to-paste? Dec 21 21:06:09 hover-to-paste Dec 21 21:06:12 s/tap/touch/ Dec 21 21:06:20 sugardave: there's also a really weird hitch every time i go to the third panel of the settings on it Dec 21 21:06:31 it kind of hiccups? Dec 21 21:06:50 yeah whenever going between the 2nd and 3rd panel .. doesn't do it between 1st and 2nd Dec 21 21:06:54 I have tried a million ways to fix that...not sure what is going on there yet Dec 21 21:06:57 anyone here from NY? Dec 21 21:07:12 that's just a damn carousel with all the components already existing Dec 21 21:07:48 i keep wanting swipe up/down to do something. i'm not sure what Dec 21 21:07:48 * Tommy is a carousel Dec 21 21:07:56 * Tommy spins Dec 21 21:08:04 oh boy, buzzy sound problem Dec 21 21:08:22 dammit this charging cable that came with my galaxy nexus is way too short Dec 21 21:08:46 sound problem in a video? Dec 21 21:09:20 ugh fuck my life, just accidentally yanked the cord out of my nexus s whilst deleting the entire contents of its flash memory Dec 21 21:09:30 in general, not in a particualr app .. the 3.0.4 sound bug Dec 21 21:09:39 ah, gotcha Dec 21 21:10:38 yesterday that went away on me whili was playing with my media player app, trying to mess around with it and see if i figure out some combination of something that fixes it Dec 21 21:11:55 you know what would be neat, would be if you had the touchpad upside down, and it did a speaker swap Dec 21 21:13:09 that sounds like a great patch Dec 21 21:14:36 making a phone call fixed the audio Dec 21 21:29:39 i really really wish my ipod would work on a touchstone Dec 21 21:30:57 I have my ipod touch that i havent touched since june Dec 21 21:37:03 I started using the iPod Touch, more, for music Dec 21 21:37:13 The battery lasts pretty long for using only music Dec 21 21:37:21 yeah Dec 21 21:37:25 Maybe it is iOS 5, though, but if I try and listen to music and do much else, it gets very slow Dec 21 21:37:39 Tapping input fields six or seven times to get input isn't nice :) Dec 21 21:37:44 I have a 2G Dec 21 21:37:49 But you can *finally* download without iTunes (revolutionary!) Dec 21 21:38:13 So it is kind of nice to be able to update podcasts (like you would with Dr. Podder) Dec 21 21:38:18 Ah Dec 21 21:39:18 I kinda beat it up, lol Dec 21 21:40:26 one of my friends was just telling me about their new "TouchePad" .. i chuckled. Dec 21 21:40:36 When I moved we were going along the coast and we stopped at the sand dunes in oregon. I spontaneously rolled down one of the dunes and forgot my ipod was in my pocket Dec 21 21:41:22 i only use the ipod mostly to see what other apps do Dec 21 21:41:38 couple weeks and i'll be back to iOS development.. ugh. Dec 21 21:41:42 but it'll be worth the money Dec 21 21:46:26 singmajesty: everything is revolutionary when apple does it Dec 21 21:46:55 I know Dec 21 21:47:02 I remember back when I had an MP3 player Dec 21 21:47:09 Before Apple invented them Dec 21 21:47:13 never forget, position: fixed! Dec 21 21:47:30 Oh, or when I had multi-tasking, before Apple made "multi-tasking, done right" Dec 21 21:47:37 "revolutionary" == sue everyone that tries to compete? Dec 21 21:47:44 i don't think apple has ever made multi-tasking done right Dec 21 21:47:45 Or when I installed applications over the air, before the "Cloud" Dec 21 21:48:12 When I got an iPod Touch for development, I seriously expected to be able to activate it on a Panera Bread WiFi Dec 21 21:48:16 Oops Dec 21 21:48:41 Then iTunes was upset when I wanted to use PayPal instead of giving my info :) Dec 21 21:48:48 i activated my TouchPad off some guy who somehow had internet in his Ford Focus Dec 21 21:49:30 :) Dec 21 21:49:42 i don't think i can purchase anything from HP using paypal though Dec 21 21:49:43 Oh, and I as seriously surprised how much trouble it was to get music on there Dec 21 21:49:55 I didn't want my 30 GB of music to go on there. I just wanted a few songs Dec 21 21:49:56 app catalog change its color scheme a bit? Dec 21 21:49:57 Oops Dec 21 21:50:24 For some reason, it feels like Apple wants too much information Dec 21 21:50:34 More than a standard credit card number, name, address Dec 21 21:50:45 Feels invasive Dec 21 21:51:51 wrea: looks normal here.. i just comapred themo n two touchpads with different vers of app store.. looked the same.. in as much as the two touchpads appear to have two completely different display hardwares Dec 21 21:52:23 my personal use one is much brighter and more cool tinted, my development one is much much darker and more of a warm color Dec 21 21:52:43 maybe the ambient light sensor is sensing differently on them Dec 21 21:52:49 * sugardave makes some shit up. Dec 21 21:53:08 possible, but turning off the light sensors makes no difference to them as far as i can tell Dec 21 21:53:29 oh wait Dec 21 21:54:23 it may be possible that there are two different colors in use on the category selection Dec 21 21:54:44 it may just be the lines between items causing an optical illusion though Dec 21 21:55:29 here it more of a tinted whitish grey-blue Dec 21 21:56:19 EricBlade: I think you can get a credit or debit card from paypal backed by your balance Dec 21 21:56:33 they looked at my credit report and laughed Dec 21 21:56:43 seriously? Dec 21 21:56:55 why do they need a credit report if it's backed by your paypal balance... Dec 21 21:57:00 then invalidated my account until i sent them the same 5 pages of documentation i had to send after HP sent me a payment, and they called it a "suspicious transaction" Dec 21 21:57:21 i don't know why, but they do Dec 21 21:58:51 Paypal ftl Dec 21 21:59:15 yea, it is paypal. I don't know why I'm surprised Dec 21 22:15:37 guys I'm little bit sad :( I can't get TP for reasonable price Dec 21 22:16:29 have anybody any idea about it ? Dec 21 22:16:45 dude, they've been sold out for ever. Dec 21 22:18:27 What's the best way to get music streaming from my server to my TP? anyone got any ideas? Dec 21 22:20:17 subsonic app? Dec 21 22:20:40 akanster I know Dec 21 22:21:16 I have to pay over $300 Dec 21 22:21:20 on ebay Dec 21 22:21:29 Might find it on craigslist Dec 21 22:21:35 Depending on where you live Dec 21 22:21:41 Boopop what server do you have ? Dec 21 22:21:52 singmajesty that's the problem Dec 21 22:21:56 I'm in EU Dec 21 22:22:10 panel: Windows Home Server box Dec 21 22:22:16 so I can stick any old software on it Dec 21 22:22:19 Well, on the bright side... Dec 21 22:22:25 It was $500 to $600 new Dec 21 22:22:31 But, still :) Dec 21 22:22:48 there's CL in the EU... some places Dec 21 22:23:02 no clue how the market is there though Dec 21 22:24:15 ebay? Dec 21 22:24:46 walk into HP headquarters and ask for one? :P Dec 21 22:24:48 price over $300 is on ebay Dec 21 22:25:23 when I count shipping Dec 21 22:25:59 in EU ebay are prices about $320 Dec 21 22:26:48 mscoolnerd :D Dec 21 22:27:20 mrs. Whitman Dec 21 22:27:25 any ideas panel ? :P Dec 21 22:27:25 im sure meg would be quite accommodating :P Dec 21 22:27:54 Boopop maybe some UPNP / DLNA server Dec 21 22:28:02 tried that Dec 21 22:28:05 can't stand uPNP Dec 21 22:28:11 takes forever to connect Dec 21 22:28:24 forever to navigate Dec 21 22:28:31 was pretty hopeless :( Dec 21 22:28:58 hmm Dec 21 22:29:08 I've got my samba shares set up using that enyo share mapper or whatever it's called but I can't find a music app that will read the music Dec 21 22:29:11 there was some audio streaming app Dec 21 22:29:11 which is a shame Dec 21 22:33:09 Boopop hmm ampache ? Dec 21 22:33:17 looked at that Dec 21 22:33:26 couldn't get it to install on the server :( Dec 21 22:33:32 one of the services didn't like WHS Dec 21 22:33:35 or something like that Dec 21 22:34:46 I can only recoment synology NAS server with my webos synology apps ;) Dec 21 22:35:10 pfft synology :P Dec 21 22:35:29 greatest thing, I've ever buyed Dec 21 22:35:33 I paid £330 in total for my HP Microserver Dec 21 22:35:42 and that includes the 4 2TB hard disks I bought for it Dec 21 22:35:44 if you mount your share under /media/internal the music player won't see it? Dec 21 22:35:44 :D Dec 21 22:35:49 nope :( Dec 21 22:36:00 weak Dec 21 22:36:13 touchplayer does Dec 21 22:36:15 but then Dec 21 22:36:17 as good as touchplayer is Dec 21 22:36:20 it's pretty basic Dec 21 22:36:23 better for videos Dec 21 22:36:34 for music I'd want stuff like playlists, which touchplayer doesn't od Dec 21 22:36:36 do* Dec 21 22:38:19 hmph. why is backup restoring done over mobile webs rather than wifi >8\/ Dec 21 22:38:45 backup will restore over * Dec 21 22:43:03 cool, now I can work on something for fun and learning Dec 21 22:44:31 Fun and learning... Dec 21 22:44:38 NETFLIX, OH MY! Dec 21 22:44:44 hahaha Dec 21 22:44:46 Let's go post it Dec 21 22:47:08 no, I'm going to re-do my Leafly API test app Dec 21 22:47:22 with DB8 storage...I realized I never have done anything with it Dec 21 22:47:37 and I gotta say the DbList sample is pretty horrible Dec 21 22:47:55 but I think I finally got a handle on the basics Dec 21 22:48:53 I just googled Leafly. Dec 21 22:49:09 puff puff pass sugardave! Dec 21 22:49:47 heh, I picked it early on when we first got Enyo because someone else in here was wanting to write an app for it Dec 21 22:49:56 and now I can't remember who it was Dec 21 22:50:12 one of the effects of mary jane Dec 21 22:50:28 so I hear :P Dec 21 22:50:59 lol Dec 21 23:04:47 hi guys. Dec 21 23:05:01 how's netflix coming sugardave? Dec 21 23:07:04 fxspec06: it came out this morning Dec 21 23:07:54 Oh, you mean Flixster? Dec 21 23:08:05 The NetFlix arch-nemesis? Dec 21 23:09:08 i just got a low battery notification on my touchpad. in the menu it shows 42% left Dec 21 23:09:33 that's kinda low Dec 21 23:10:06 yeah but kinda doesn't count Dec 21 23:10:21 horseshoes and handgrenades Dec 21 23:11:49 MINE Dec 21 23:11:52 Maybe there's an invisible period in there Dec 21 23:11:57 4.2% Dec 21 23:12:12 Or its really .42%, and its a miracle its still going Dec 21 23:14:56 http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/21/hp-sends-19-refunds-to-overcharged-touchpad-sale-partakers/ - heads up Dec 21 23:15:56 that's mighty kind of hp. Dec 21 23:25:00 yeah esp since that's really not overcharging Dec 21 23:25:08 i got charged more than that for 7 day delivery Dec 21 23:25:40 singmajesty: i ran for 15 minutes with my touchpad showing 0% .. Dec 21 23:31:58 good lord, Chrome is unstable Dec 21 23:37:53 how the hell do i make AresDebug do anything? Dec 21 23:46:18 EricBlade: You're supposed to just be able to hook it up and then select the app (script) you want to load...I've never really used it Dec 21 23:47:09 yeh i figured out how to make breakpoints happen finally .. but without the ability to actually change the code inside it, and having to reset breakpoints every time I make a change externally.. it's pretty annoying to operate. Dec 21 23:49:36 today, I hate JavaScript event handling. Dec 22 00:02:28 on behalf of javascript, I'm sorry Dec 22 00:03:02 this.log(inEvent) shows inEvent.defaultPrevented == true. this.log(inEvent.defaultPrevented) == false. wth Dec 22 00:03:53 hmmm Dec 22 00:05:07 hmmmmmmm Dec 22 00:05:24 and doing "inEvent.stopPropagation(); inEvent.preventDefault();" has absolutely no effect whatsoever, it continues to bubble upwards Dec 22 00:06:15 hmmm something's not working right Dec 22 00:07:59 hmm. moving the deepest onclick from being inside a repeater, to being on the repeater itself, seems to fix it Dec 22 00:10:30 ... and my PC just decided it wanted to bluetooth pair to everything in the house .. ar.. what Dec 22 00:11:52 uh-oh, it's taking control of everything Dec 22 00:15:13 and now my app has stopped seeking. it worked an hour ago, and i haven't changed anything there. argh. is the server refusing to re-stream, or is webos not telling it to ... sigh Dec 22 00:17:07 hmmm so question: are there apps that search online video sites (like netflix, hulu, amazon) to see what shows are available? Dec 22 00:20:50 is that what video flood does? Dec 22 00:23:24 if we say "no" are you going to make one? Dec 22 00:23:47 lol Dec 22 00:27:16 dwc-: I dunno, I'm wondering Dec 22 00:27:29 sugardave: dunno, thinking about it Dec 22 00:27:40 that would be a cool app, for sure Dec 22 00:28:03 yeah, it'd be great to search "the office" see where you can watch it online, how much at each place, etc. Dec 22 00:28:56 yeha Dec 22 00:28:58 yeah* Dec 22 00:29:00 dwc-: doesn't look like that's what video flood Dec 22 00:29:15 does Dec 22 01:26:34 mommy my Pre3 won't boot after OTA Dec 22 01:33:18 bummer ajay_ Dec 22 01:34:04 hi Dec 22 01:35:41 hey all! Dec 22 01:36:01 wrea: it's weird, it's like, luna wants to boot, but just.. forgets how.. Dec 22 01:36:17 ajay_: it has dementia? Dec 22 01:36:19 and to cap it off, one of the little chips in the cracked-good screen fell out Dec 22 01:36:40 mscoolnerd: hmm.. i don't know that i'm qualified to make that diagnosis, maam Dec 22 01:37:10 maam? im not female Dec 22 01:37:56 * mscoolnerd thinks he should probably come up with a better nick Dec 22 01:38:18 haha Dec 22 01:38:41 rofl Dec 22 01:39:23 I had assumed it was Ms. Cool Nerd.. i thought it was weird there was a female in the channel :) What's mscoolnerd mean then? Dec 22 01:39:46 m and s are my initials Dec 22 01:40:16 its ok, the guys in the firefox room thought it meant microsoft coolnerd Dec 22 01:40:32 i was thinking of doctoring to 2.2.4, but when i read it could be OTA-able i was so excited. (that'll teach me!) At least this republic wireless phone OTA'd without concern (I was freaking out because it showed an angry robot the first time i tried..) Dec 22 01:40:45 invalidopcode: that was my second guess! I decided to ask before assuming tho:) Dec 22 01:41:15 damn, my favorite way of displaying my initials is an illegal nick Dec 22 01:41:34 ajay_: oh gosh, why? Dec 22 01:44:28 @ Dec 22 01:44:53 so anyways, i really just came to ask: were most people here able to OTA to 2.2.4 successfully? Dec 22 01:45:25 ajay_: there have been some reports of issues, yes Dec 22 02:05:28 interesting.. Dec 22 02:07:13 mine cant see the update so i guess ill be doctoring it :( Dec 22 02:08:08 I'm considering doctoring mine anyway - something is fishy after the OTA update Dec 22 02:21:03 anybody know of any hp touchpad hacks Dec 22 02:21:15 or anybody looking for a 50 gig box.net account Dec 22 02:22:25 you get a 50GB box.net account with a touchpad anyway Dec 22 02:22:36 touchpad hacks can be found at http://bit.ly/phd-ac Dec 22 02:23:31 i know is there a way to sell the acouunt without selling the touchpad Dec 22 02:24:39 ty Dec 22 02:28:17 i just update to 1.4.5? Dec 22 02:28:32 i mean.. that 3.0.0 Dec 22 02:28:40 3.0.4 Dec 22 02:29:25 shows 3.0.0 on the website.. Dec 22 02:29:32 then you install custom homebrew apps? Dec 22 02:29:41 or does the homebrew update fix a lot of shit Dec 22 02:31:11 says to send to phone.. but i dont have the palm phone Dec 22 02:33:10 save+restore is just a bunch of scripts, so I should be able to just run them from novaterm huh.. hmm.. Dec 22 02:33:38 save/restore has a launch parameter you can use from the command line to save everyting Dec 22 02:34:07 nice! Dec 22 02:36:30 somebody have a link for latest touchbad homebrew install file? Dec 22 02:36:52 I found a reference from you to the parameters, but that URL returns an "invalid request" alas.. lesse.. Dec 22 02:37:22 so to the wiki.. Dec 22 02:37:48 nope not there either.. Dec 22 02:39:09 rwhitby: so I'll just ask, where do i find info on the parameters? Dec 22 02:39:22 ~utsl Dec 22 02:39:57 why do i feel like that could take awhile? lol.. Dec 22 02:40:24 will take a gander at it later, late for meditating.. (as always.. ironic? :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 22 02:59:57 2011