**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 06 03:00:01 2012
May 06 16:00:47 <madnificent> right before "You got to keep it separated" in http://enyojs.com/tutorial/, the Add Tweet button should do something, right?  i see the event being triggered, but i don't see anything new on my screen.  how can i see which components are contained in the twitlist?   i'm using firefox and chromium
May 06 16:03:40 <madnificent> fwiw, it looks like this.createComponent isn't being friendly to me
May 06 16:04:50 <madnificent> ah, it's probably the creation of the tweet...
May 06 16:09:42 <madnificent> can event bubbling prevent the code right after this.createComponent not to be executed?  anything else that might be hitting me?
May 06 16:17:48 <madnificent> so apparently, it is likely something inside Tweet, as that doesn't get executed correctly
May 06 16:29:22 <madnificent> so, i can create a new tweet and render it into the body, but calling this.createComponent isn't working yet.
May 06 16:29:55 <madnificent> which, for the record, does work if i create a tag instead of a tweet
May 06 16:33:39 * madnificent wants enyo to like him :(
May 06 16:36:04 <madnificent> why would the creation of the tweet, somewhere deep in the stack, cause the stack to unwind?
May 06 16:38:10 <madnificent> ah, variables need to be prefixed with this. !  awesome.  \o/  enyo likes me again.
May 06 17:24:59 <EricBlade> madnificent: enyo loves everyone. unless you're an IE7 user.
May 06 17:56:13 <madnificent> EricBlade: IE7 users are children of the devil, enyo doesn't need to care about them.
May 06 17:56:37 <EricBlade> it could be worse
May 06 17:56:44 <EricBlade> my parents still use IE4
May 06 17:56:46 <madnificent> next up (but later tonight): adding an enyo style to that application.  perhaps i'll be able to roll out a micro micro demo app soon :)
May 06 17:56:50 <madnificent> EricBlade: woah, why?
May 06 17:56:58 <EricBlade> because they still use win 95
May 06 17:57:27 <EricBlade> you can probably imagine the internet looks a bit weird to them
May 06 17:57:38 <madnificent> why not upgrade the machine to linux and try to run something that's possibly more sane on it.  w95 wasn't meant to go online.  as in: it's a security whole about as big as <insert-pornstar-name-here>'s anus.
May 06 17:58:18 <madnificent> yeah, it's a tad sad.  especially as you're here helping people make internet-stuff (for the lack of a better broad term)
May 06 17:58:29 <izzy84075> I wonder how many exploits floating around still target Win95...
May 06 17:58:57 <EricBlade> because the days it would take me to build a system that fits on a 40?MB hard drive would not be worth it to me
May 06 17:59:07 * madnificent had a computer running win98 portscanning him.  i guess win95 exists as well...
May 06 17:59:44 <madnificent> EricBlade: no, you should get them a 35$ raspberry pi and give them linux.  at least they'll have a more modern browser, and it wouldn't cost much in total, i'd guess.
May 06 18:00:10 <EricBlade> possibly true
May 06 18:00:29 <EricBlade> i might get them a touchpad, they loved mine
May 06 18:01:10 <EricBlade> that's really weird for me to say because my 70 yr old father hates tech
May 06 18:01:19 <madnificent> the touchpad isn't an optimal experience either.  unless they only leech (as in wikipedia etc) from the internet and don't try to provide (which is ok)
May 06 18:01:44 * madnificent doesn't actually know about the touchpad, he can only guess, but i'd guess that that's the case
May 06 18:02:09 <madnificent> and now that i think about it, for older people, a tablet could be just what they need to keep themselves educated.
May 06 18:03:06 <EricBlade> my dad mostly sits around the house watching vhs tapes of old war movies on the ancient 30" console TV that his grandmother passed down, it's from the dawn of color tv
May 06 18:03:56 <madnificent> i personally find that awesome.  in any game, i'd love to enter a house with that type of man in.  there must be something crazily interesting coming out of him, i'd guess.
May 06 18:04:40 <madnificent> regardless, i have got to go.  i'll be back online wining about things i can't get running soon :)
May 06 18:08:41 <EricBlade> me too me too
May 06 18:13:05 <invalidopcode> EricBlade: you around?
May 06 18:13:19 <EricBlade> invalidopcode: i am! woo
May 06 18:13:36 <invalidopcode> EricBlade: haha very nice! so what's up?
May 06 18:16:58 <EricBlade> well i think i've got something good
May 06 18:17:27 <invalidopcode> oooo. do tell
May 06 18:19:08 <EricBlade> check your email
May 06 18:20:24 <EricBlade> i learned some new stuff about the google voice api too
May 06 18:21:46 <invalidopcode> ok cool awesome
May 06 18:24:11 <EricBlade> then move this conversation over to synergv :)
May 06 18:24:43 <EricBlade> and don't push any buttons in that app that comes with it hehe
May 06 18:24:50 <invalidopcode> haha ok
May 06 18:26:39 <invalidopcode> hey it worked
May 06 18:26:47 <EricBlade> it worked??
May 06 18:26:56 <EricBlade> woo!
May 06 18:27:08 <invalidopcode> it appears to have logged in
May 06 18:27:32 <invalidopcode> now what?
May 06 18:29:04 <EricBlade> now.. we have conversations.
May 06 18:29:35 <invalidopcode> okay
May 06 18:29:50 <EricBlade> and then i'll do the crazy thing and try to add two accounts
May 06 18:30:18 <invalidopcode> does this account actually work?
May 06 18:30:22 <EricBlade> it should
May 06 18:30:36 <EricBlade> if you added the SynerGV account
May 06 18:30:52 <invalidopcode> ahhhh ok
May 06 18:32:48 <EricBlade> two things - it only loads in things that are unread, and it still duplicates outgoing messages sent with the messaging app, when it reads them back in from the service
May 06 18:33:03 <invalidopcode> hm... ok
May 06 18:33:06 <EricBlade> i have no idea what happens for non-text things
May 06 18:33:25 <EricBlade> it syncs to google roughly on a five minute timer
May 06 18:33:32 <invalidopcode> ah ok
May 06 18:33:40 <EricBlade> as well as anytime you send a msg
May 06 18:33:49 <invalidopcode> ok cool
May 06 18:34:00 <invalidopcode> should i remove the previous gvoice account?
May 06 18:34:15 <EricBlade> probably. might want to uninstall the gvoice app for the time being
May 06 18:34:45 <invalidopcode> no.... can't... use... touchpad... without.. gvoice :)
May 06 18:34:56 <invalidopcode> haha ok... uninstalled
May 06 18:35:25 <EricBlade> well if you were still using the test with the messaging, you'd probably end up with a crapstorm of duplicates
May 06 18:35:42 <invalidopcode> yeah true
May 06 18:35:59 <EricBlade> i also keep getting this "User is offline" message when i try to send, frequently, but hitting Send Anyway sends it
May 06 18:36:09 <EricBlade> i don't recall having that problem with the app ver
May 06 18:38:06 <EricBlade> hmm. looks like having multiple accounts doesn't work so well yet
May 06 18:38:17 <EricBlade> that might be a problem with the messaging app o.o
May 06 18:38:21 <invalidopcode> hm... ok this is interesting. in the messaging app it shows the account as having no name with a username of blade.eric
May 06 18:38:44 <EricBlade> or that might be a problem in that area
May 06 18:39:16 <EricBlade> aha, i still have some hardcoded references to my account name
May 06 18:39:36 <invalidopcode> ah ok
May 06 18:45:31 <EricBlade> i should try out my theory that a service could launch a shell app to subscribe to the service, so the service can maintain a persistent connection for handling something like irc or xmpp
May 06 18:46:32 <invalidopcode> hm... wait, what's a shell app?
May 06 18:48:11 <EricBlade> hmm. my second account just synced
May 06 18:51:55 <EricBlade> well the idea that i had, is that since a service only runs for a few seconds normally, you can't really operate a persistent connection with one
May 06 18:52:19 <invalidopcode> what about a native service?
May 06 18:52:32 <invalidopcode> like how the yahoo and google IM services run
May 06 18:52:33 <EricBlade> however an application can subscribe to a service and as long as the subscription remains open the service runs
May 06 18:52:50 <invalidopcode> ah ok...
May 06 18:53:05 <invalidopcode> can the messaging app subscribe to the service?
May 06 18:53:29 <EricBlade> and if you launch an app without a window, so long as you never open a window with it, it will stay running
May 06 18:53:53 <EricBlade> so, if the service launches an app that has no windows, the app can subscribe to the service, to keep it open.  this is a theory at htis point, not established fact.
May 06 18:54:41 <EricBlade> i'd guess that a native service could be done, but we don't really have any way to properly do that other than preware
May 06 18:54:57 <EricBlade> and i hate C
May 06 18:57:08 <invalidopcode> hahaha ok
May 06 19:03:20 <EricBlade> hmm. i wonder if the sync is broke now that i have two accounts :|
May 06 19:04:45 <invalidopcode> did you get the message?
May 06 19:06:45 <EricBlade> i think having 2 accounts setup screwed something up
May 06 19:07:02 <invalidopcode> ah ok
May 06 19:07:03 <EricBlade> i just removed one and disabled/re-enabled the other, and got it straight away
May 06 19:07:49 <invalidopcode> ah ok
May 06 19:08:22 <invalidopcode> oops... ignore my spanish
May 06 19:09:06 <invalidopcode> i forgot that Que Pasa means what's up...
May 06 19:12:37 <invalidopcode> is there a way to force a sync from this control app?
May 06 19:14:00 <EricBlade> there's a sync button but i don't think it'll work since it doesn't know about the multiple account support
May 06 19:19:35 <invalidopcode> ah ok
May 06 19:19:57 <EricBlade> i probably need to add some account selection stuff to that
May 06 19:20:07 <invalidopcode> yeah
May 06 19:20:18 <EricBlade> overall i think the plan will be to add a version of the gvoice app there
May 06 19:24:58 <EricBlade> hmm. just as i send a message that says i'm surprised it hasn't broken, yet, that message won't go green
May 06 19:29:55 <EricBlade> now i'm getting "A phone must be connected ot the device via Bluetooth to send a text message."
May 06 19:32:28 <EricBlade> note to self: when deleting an account, find a way to stop the sync timer
May 06 19:33:00 <invalidopcode> yeah i think there is some contact integration stuff we still need to do
May 06 19:35:00 <EricBlade> hmm. this particular conversation switched to SMS
May 06 19:36:17 <EricBlade> and i can't get it to work anymore
May 06 19:37:44 <EricBlade> FATAL ERROR: CALL_AND_RETRY_2 Allocation failed - process out of memory
May 06 19:38:02 <EricBlade> i don't know if that's coming from webOS or from node or from one of my libraries or what
May 06 19:46:22 <invalidopcode> hm... interesting
May 06 19:46:24 <EricBlade> it blew up and i can't get it to restart
May 06 19:46:51 <EricBlade> so much for calling that an alpha heh
May 06 19:47:08 <invalidopcode> i've noticed in the past couple weeks that i think gvoice or that gvoice service might have a memory leak somewhere
May 06 19:47:37 <invalidopcode> because my touchpad would get really slow if i don't restart it for a couple days and then apps wouldn't open until i closed gvoice
May 06 19:49:07 <EricBlade> well this is a completely different thing
May 06 19:50:49 <EricBlade> rebooting seems to have got it back. ugh.
May 06 19:53:10 <EricBlade> my guess is beating the crap out of the database like i am is probably not good
May 06 19:53:54 <invalidopcode> ah ok, yeah that probably has something to do with it
May 06 19:54:03 <EricBlade> probably need to do some serious optimization there rather than doing each thing seperately
May 06 19:54:34 <EricBlade> it shouldn't have something to do with it, but it sounds like the same thing that happens when i turn on skype and it has to sync weeks of stuff
May 06 19:54:46 <EricBlade> and 500+ contacts
May 06 19:56:59 <EricBlade> so i guess the immediate orders of business will probably be to optimize the database accesses, re-tag the outbox messages properly instead of duplicating them, setting up the proper username/accountid in the messaging app
May 06 19:57:37 <EricBlade> and figuring out how to not get the "User is offline" message
May 06 19:58:59 <EricBlade> probably marking messages read when we download them too
May 06 20:02:06 <invalidopcode> we should make a list somewhere
May 06 20:03:27 <invalidopcode> also something seems to be messed up with the timestamps
May 06 20:29:52 <EricBlade> ?
May 06 20:35:33 <invalidopcode> in the messaging app
May 06 20:35:58 <invalidopcode> are you taking the timestamps from the messages themselves or from the time you receive them?
May 06 20:54:44 <EricBlade> the timestamps are from the current stamp on the conversation
May 06 21:32:18 <EricBlade> hmm. the webos team has posted some new job openings
May 06 21:35:19 <EricBlade> The Product Management Intern will define a crucial set of features that are fundamental to how users interact with phones, tablets and other devices.  The successful candidate will combine a rare set of design, and product management skills to help ensure the success of the web OS platform. 
May 06 21:36:10 <EricBlade> HPdirect is seeking an eCommerce intern to join our Consumer Exchange US e-commerce team and help us develop our Online WebOS categories
May 06 22:51:02 <invalidopcode> sounds like fune
May 06 22:51:04 <invalidopcode> *fun
May 06 23:16:33 <destinal> EricBlade:  heh, building an empire of interns
May 06 23:17:15 <EricBlade> they're hiring Seniors and Interns.  either all the middle people haven't run away yet, or there aren't any, which would explain some things.
May 06 23:18:20 <halfhalo> Or intern to middle after internship
May 06 23:19:00 <destinal> Oh ok, I was wondering if we'd see Intern directors and Intern CEO's next :P
May 06 23:19:27 <destinal> I think it is cool that they're doing it though in all seriousness
May 06 23:20:19 <halfhalo> ya
May 06 23:22:10 <EricBlade> webOS Senior Interaction Designer, webOS Sr Cloud Services Arch, webOS Software Engineer QA, webOS Senior Visual Designer, webOS Senior Product Manager, webOS Network Engineer
May 06 23:22:46 <EricBlade> Interns in Software Engineer, Sales, Product Management, User Experience Design
May 06 23:25:58 <EricBlade> i've got to get my webserver back online
May 06 23:34:09 <invalidopcode> High School interns? :)
May 07 01:43:18 <madnificent> really really dull question, but i want to supply a hash of arguments for a kind i made.  how do i make sure the variables are set.  i've tried published but that doesn't do the trick yet.  i know the documentation must be here, but i can't find it. (probably has something to do with the time)
May 07 01:47:23 <JunJi> what variables do you mean?
May 07 01:49:18 <madnificent> in the components of an enyo.Component for instance, i can give hashes (or objects or whatever you want to name them) which specify the instance to create.  in my case that's { kind : FancySearch , myvariable : "myvalue" } but how do i make sure the value of myvariable in the newly created FancySearch instance is set to "myvalue" ?
May 07 01:49:43 <madnificent> (in case you wonder if the question can really be that dull: yes, it can be, it's not the one here there's a trick involved (i think))
May 07 01:51:26 <invalidopcode> madnificent: you might want to ask over at #enjojs people there might be a little more helpful with stuff like that
May 07 01:52:46 <madnificent> heh, A) thanks, B) i think i'm doing something else wrong
May 07 01:53:00 * bnceo_IM-ME-Eric waves at EricBlade
May 07 01:53:38 <EricBlade> hi
May 07 01:54:00 <bnceo_IM-ME-Eric> wut up
May 07 01:54:12 <bnceo_IM-ME-Eric> any change on you wanting the veer?
May 07 01:57:51 <madnificent> <3 veer <3
May 07 01:58:16 <madnificent> enyo.hitch doesn't exist? o.O
May 07 02:31:59 <EricBlade> bnceo_IM-ME-Eric: i'm still exhausted from moving :D and not real sure how the finances are at the moment
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 07 02:59:59 2012