**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 25 02:59:59 2012
May 25 03:00:01 <invalidopcode> they're probably making it metro themed :P
May 25 03:00:08 <LarrySteeze> ~_~
May 25 03:00:33 <LarrySteeze> I hate to break it to you
May 25 03:00:44 <LarrySteeze> I'm pretty sure most of the work is NOT going into R&D
May 25 03:00:51 <LarrySteeze> and more into open sourcing
May 25 03:01:07 <LarrySteeze> there is a lot of licensed proprietary code that has to be replaced
May 25 03:01:13 <bigbluehat> de-patenting ;)
May 25 03:01:25 <bigbluehat> alright...I need sleep
May 25 03:01:30 <fxspec06> but along the way there are naturally going to be improvements
May 25 03:01:39 <bigbluehat> these "where's webos" conversations wear me out...
May 25 03:01:40 <bigbluehat> night all
May 25 03:01:47 <fxspec06> night
May 25 03:01:51 <LarrySteeze> adios
May 25 03:01:55 * invalidopcode believes software patents are bogus
May 25 03:02:12 <invalidopcode> imo
May 25 03:02:13 <LarrySteeze> fxspec06: depends on what you mean by improvements
May 25 03:02:14 <fxspec06> i mean, in a way they are
May 25 03:02:33 <LarrySteeze> I think some things will be improvements, like pmbt being replaced by bluez
May 25 03:03:11 <fxspec06> you can legally patent the method of doing something... which doesn't make sense to me. because two logical people could most certaintly come up with a solution independently from each other that is the best way to do something
May 25 03:03:19 <LarrySteeze> of course bluez is purely speculation on my part
May 25 03:03:21 <fxspec06> that's like patenting a way to solve math
May 25 03:04:05 <LarrySteeze> I can't get into a patent argument right now
May 25 03:04:12 <invalidopcode> yeah, logically, doesn't that mean that the code would have to be exactly equal for it to be patent infringment?
May 25 03:04:50 <LarrySteeze> if you can't patent code, you can't patent a device either
May 25 03:04:56 <fxspec06> yeah that's what i'd say. don't allow software patents
May 25 03:05:04 <fxspec06> then don't allow device patents
May 25 03:05:16 <invalidopcode> technology wasn't designed for patents
May 25 03:05:22 <invalidopcode> it moves too fast
May 25 03:05:22 <LarrySteeze> alright
May 25 03:05:25 <LarrySteeze> bed time for me
May 25 03:05:34 <invalidopcode> night
May 25 03:05:35 <fxspec06> are you really going to try and tell me that nobody else ever being allowed to scroll in a circle than apple is a good thing for this country
May 25 03:05:40 <LarrySteeze> adios amigos
May 25 03:05:43 <fxspec06> patents weren't designed for technology**
May 25 03:05:46 <fxspec06> audios larry
May 25 03:06:59 <EricBlade-Syn> Good evening everyone
May 25 03:07:14 <fxspec06> you're late. i think everyone left
May 25 03:07:20 <invalidopcode> fxspec06: I just loved the Microsoft vs Barnes and Noble a couple months back... "A loading notification that disappears when the web page loades" or something like that
May 25 03:07:22 <EricBlade-Syn> Just had a guy email me asking about something in choice.. Said he was a former palm engineer
May 25 03:07:28 <invalidopcode> yeah you missed the party EricBlade-Syn
May 25 03:07:31 <EricBlade-Syn> *gvoice
May 25 03:08:16 <fxspec06> invalidopcode: right. that's so bogus. what a joke, waste of money, time, effort, and an embarrassment to the state and to both of the companies
May 25 03:09:07 <EricBlade-TP> ok well that synergy thing isnt quite ready to roll lol
May 25 03:09:09 <fxspec06> in the meantime, the lawyers get to sip another martini
May 25 03:09:22 <invalidopcode> yeah, its ridiculous... they are clearly running of ideas if they have to sue others for them
May 25 03:09:23 <EricBlade-TP> so whatd i miss
May 25 03:09:44 <fxspec06> we're talking about patents & technology
May 25 03:09:49 <invalidopcode> EricBlade-TP: we are discussing the ridiculousness of software patents
May 25 03:09:54 <EricBlade-TP> anyway this guy emailed me asking questions about gvoice claiming he was a palm engineer.. but had no idea if he had a pre 2 or 3
May 25 03:10:04 <fxspec06> LOL
May 25 03:10:12 <fxspec06> o k
May 25 03:10:15 <fxspec06> surrrrrrrre
May 25 03:10:39 <invalidopcode> wait, EricBlade-TP gvoice runs on the pre3 right?
May 25 03:11:03 <EricBlade-TP> app does, synergy ver does not
May 25 03:11:44 <fxspec06> i gave up with enyo on phones after i realized there are no API's available
May 25 03:11:55 <EricBlade-TP> like what
May 25 03:12:16 <fxspec06> contacts
May 25 03:12:29 <EricBlade-TP> oh.. the contact api suxors anyway
May 25 03:12:41 <fxspec06> i think that was the biggest
May 25 03:12:53 <fxspec06> plus it was slow as molasses
May 25 03:13:03 <fxspec06> and notifications... ugh
May 25 03:14:07 * invalidopcode was planning on doing enyo phone development :/
May 25 03:14:31 <fxspec06> you can def do it, just do it in enyo 2
May 25 03:14:35 <EricBlade-TP> im going to fix the syn-irc disconnect problem if possible, and the major bug in gvoice synergy this weekend
May 25 03:15:05 <fxspec06> and don't plan on using contacts, filepicker, datepicker
May 25 03:15:35 <invalidopcode> ah okay, well at least neither of my apps need those
May 25 03:15:51 <EricBlade-TP> yeah anything that needs the crossapp api doesnt work
May 25 03:16:20 <fxspec06> and def enyo 2 b/c 1 is heavyweight
May 25 03:16:49 <fxspec06> not that 2 runs much better.....
May 25 03:17:11 <invalidopcode> will an enyo 1 app for touchpad run on phones?
May 25 03:17:19 <EricBlade-TP> mostly
May 25 03:17:32 <invalidopcode> ah okay
May 25 03:17:33 <fxspec06> yes, mostly
May 25 03:17:35 <EricBlade-TP> read the enyo on phones doc i was maintaining on webos101
May 25 03:17:54 <fxspec06> but like in voogle xl's case, it worked with a few code changes
May 25 03:17:57 <invalidopcode> okay will do
May 25 03:18:08 <fxspec06> but i can never release it because it doesn't play nicely
May 25 03:18:22 <invalidopcode> EricBlade-TP: is webos101 run by you?
May 25 03:18:25 <madnificent> fxspec06: sorry, i just didn't manage to do it.  it tries to load the old enyo, i think.  the application works when i load it over HTTP, but not when i package it.  (it doesn't seem to respond to touch events in that case).
May 25 03:19:14 <madnificent> fxspec06: contacts should be available through phonegap, i think.  i saw it in a presentation.  there's at least some work in the html5 related technologies for stuff like that.
May 25 03:19:17 <fxspec06> what is the relative path location for your enyo.js file
May 25 03:19:25 <EricBlade-TP> no touch events are not transmitted in the browser except on 3.0.5 i guess
May 25 03:19:50 <madnificent> fxspec06: apparently palm-package rewrites it
May 25 03:20:15 <EricBlade-TP> contacts api in phonegap probably does not work on webos, one of the webos things is that no app can mine your contatsdata
May 25 03:20:22 <madnificent> EricBlade-TP: wait, it /does/ work in the browser.  it does /not/ work when i package it.  i don't have anything fancy, only ontap
May 25 03:20:44 <EricBlade-TP> mad: maybe ihave that backwards lol
May 25 03:20:44 <fxspec06> what is the folder structure you;'ve got
May 25 03:20:52 <fxspec06> i was runing into the same problem earlier this week
May 25 03:20:54 <madnificent> on the contacts: i loved the way palm handled that.  it worked perfectly in tasks@hand and i couldn't mine the data, which is great.
May 25 03:21:04 <madnificent> fxspec06: the one in bootplate
May 25 03:21:26 <EricBlade-TP> unfortunately, people -want- their apps to be Able to contact mine. see also the demand for whatsapp
May 25 03:21:43 <invalidopcode> EricBlade-TP: well you can probably read the contacts straight from the db if you really really wanted too :P
May 25 03:21:45 <madnificent> fxspec06: but feel free to share how you did fix it anyways. it's late here so i'll probably look at it tomorrow or later :)
May 25 03:21:52 <EricBlade-TP> if i ever do bother to figurethat out ill call the app whazzzzzaaaaa
May 25 03:22:24 <EricBlade-TP> madnificent you can ssh to your device and check out the index.html on device and see if its being rewritten
May 25 03:22:49 <madnificent> EricBlade-TP: smart, should've thought of that.
May 25 03:22:49 <fxspec06> well all i did was eliminate as many subdirectories as possible. so it's enyo/enyo-2.0b4/enyo.js
May 25 03:23:01 <fxspec06> and it worked when i loaded the script that way
May 25 03:23:27 <EricBlade-TP> you could do the document.write("en"+"yo") trick
May 25 03:23:34 <fxspec06> hve you trid uninstalling on the device and fresh install
May 25 03:24:02 <madnificent> it's in build/enyo.js now
May 25 03:24:09 <fxspec06> what does that do exactly eblade
May 25 03:24:13 <fxspec06> i saw that in the code
May 25 03:24:35 <madnificent> my god that's dirty :/
May 25 03:24:49 <fxspec06> all i load madnificent is the enyo-2.0b4/enyo.js file
May 25 03:24:51 * madnificent doesn't understand why we don't have a new palm-package yet.
May 25 03:25:34 <EricBlade-TP> i imagine the tools guys are working on rewriting them in something thats not java
May 25 03:25:49 <madnificent> ah right, that was java :)
May 25 03:25:58 <fxspec06> ^ most likely
May 25 03:26:01 <madnificent> and IIRC i heard it was a bit of a mess
May 25 03:26:15 <fxspec06> it's bound to be a mess..
May 25 03:26:34 <EricBlade-TP> i remember before the OSS announcement they were talking about the next major update not being java based anyway
May 25 03:27:57 <fxspec06> how many apps do you have eblade? i mean, how many 'major' apps i should say
May 25 03:28:18 <fxspec06> i'm just curious. i wonder how many apps a single indie dev can manage
May 25 03:28:51 <EricBlade-TP> well i personalky have the two versions of gvoice, xo, and ask500, that are out
May 25 03:28:52 <fxspec06> i see inglorious apps has about 4~ with a new one coming out shortly
May 25 03:29:52 <EricBlade-TP> i thankfully am not involved with maintaining dungeon defenders, though i wish i had a royalty agreement on it!!
May 25 03:30:05 <fxspec06> how do you manage your time? i'd imagine xo and ask500 need little maintenance
May 25 03:30:16 <fxspec06> lol
May 25 03:30:48 <EricBlade-TP> i work during the week, and usually do gvoice stuff on weekends
May 25 03:31:24 <EricBlade-TP> i have done very little with xo since its last release, other than make notes in its todo list
May 25 03:31:28 <fxspec06> i imagine IA to have at least 5 person team, but then again i could be wrong and it could be just one extremely skilled anonymous man
May 25 03:32:18 <fxspec06> when it comes to successfull webos devs, i'd put them at the top
May 25 03:33:02 <EricBlade-TP> ok someone wherenim at just showed me an android app that will flash text in morse code, on the camera flash
May 25 03:33:28 <fxspec06> damn
May 25 03:33:52 <fxspec06> i don't spend a lot of time in android, but my cousin is always telling me of these stupid stupid apps that get zillions of downloads
May 25 03:34:05 <EricBlade-TP> neat idea.
May 25 03:34:17 <fxspec06> that's a good idea
May 25 03:34:39 <fxspec06> but one he was telling me was one where you roll a joing up, and then smoke it through the microphone
May 25 03:34:45 <EricBlade-TP> i still need to finda flashlight control for my pre3
May 25 03:34:55 <EricBlade-TP> whenever i need a flashlight i reach for the pre2
May 25 03:35:01 <EricBlade-TP> lol
May 25 03:35:14 <fxspec06> and another was one where you pack a bowl... and do the same thing
May 25 03:35:17 <fxspec06> $1
May 25 03:37:47 <fxspec06> i just wonder if a better strategy for an indie dev is to release more apps that do less opposed to working on a team releasing less apps that do more
May 25 03:38:08 <EricBlade-TP> perhaps
May 25 03:38:37 <fxspec06> a friend of mine i used to talk to all the time, webos dev, haven't heard from him in a bit.. but he had i think a total of 23 apps that did random things
May 25 03:38:56 <EricBlade-TP> in a tiny system like this, you either need to do thst or have in app purchase items
May 25 03:38:59 <fxspec06> and he was bringing in about half a part-time retail job a month
May 25 03:39:26 <EricBlade-TP> or have something that is universally useful
May 25 03:39:49 <fxspec06> but the consequences of investing time  and failing are so bad
May 25 03:40:18 <EricBlade-TP> its a good place to get started i think. at least, it was...
May 25 03:40:32 <fxspec06> the window is closing
May 25 03:40:59 <EricBlade-TP> xo demo had 10x the number of downloads that ask500 had in the time its been out.. but maybe everyone doesnt just download every free app
May 25 03:41:00 <fxspec06> it's becoming another capitalist market
May 25 03:41:14 <fxspec06> my ratio of free to paid is 37 to 1
May 25 03:42:12 <fxspec06> even if it's only 35 to 1, that's still insane.. i wonder what the ratio would be in an alternate universe where wild'n was free w/ in app purchase to unlock the full version
May 25 03:42:42 <madnificent> EricBlade-TP: you can add it to the topright menu, and that's just awesome
May 25 03:42:52 <madnificent> my dad loves his pre3 for it, and the flashlight is the one thing i miss in the veer
May 25 03:42:53 <invalidopcode> fxspec06: you could ask minego.... that's how his solitaire app is
May 25 03:43:06 <madnificent> my poor poor feet, i stumble against so many wandering objects at night these days
May 25 03:43:14 <madnificent> but now the sun is rising, i'm going to bed, quickly!
May 25 03:43:28 <fxspec06> this is true. his model is slightly different
May 25 03:43:44 <fxspec06> audios
May 25 03:43:49 <fxspec06> adios*
May 25 03:44:44 <invalidopcode> night madnificent
May 25 03:45:14 <invalidopcode> oh i guess that's true... his is buy per game or something like that?
May 25 03:45:37 <madnificent> ty
May 25 03:46:49 <fxspec06> yeah he sells game packs i believe
May 25 03:47:01 <fxspec06> 5 for $3 or 1 for $1 IIRC
May 25 03:47:36 <invalidopcode> yeah
May 25 03:47:38 <ramitos_> http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/24/3042441/hp-enyo-google
May 25 03:47:49 <invalidopcode> just curious are there any apps out there that use touch to share?
May 25 03:47:52 <fxspec06> in the end he probably doesn't have a better ratio than i
May 25 03:48:35 <EricBlade-TP> i heard that the guy who didflashcards is the best selling webos dev other than the big names
May 25 03:48:51 <fxspec06> TTS isn't available to apps .. unless i'm wrong
May 25 03:48:59 <fxspec06> ya james harris
May 25 03:49:14 <EricBlade-TP> tts api works
May 25 03:49:32 <EricBlade-TP> i just saw ... zap photoshare .. has tts
May 25 03:50:48 <fxspec06> "Google buys Palm for zero billion dollars"
May 25 03:51:05 <summatusmentis> eff
May 25 03:51:12 <invalidopcode> hm... okay. yeah fxspec06 there is an api for it ... somewhere
May 25 03:51:24 <fxspec06> so wait
May 25 03:51:30 <fxspec06> who. i want names
May 25 03:51:36 <summatusmentis> I hope enyo keeps being developed
May 25 03:51:39 <EricBlade-TP> wtf
May 25 03:51:40 <fxspec06> they can't just say "the team responsible"
May 25 03:51:45 <summatusmentis> fxspec06: my guess is at least matt
May 25 03:51:47 <fxspec06> what does that mean
May 25 03:51:54 <fxspec06> is this a blow
May 25 03:52:00 <EricBlade-TP> that doesnt mean.. anything?
May 25 03:52:45 <summatusmentis> my advisor is not gonna be happy if enyo becomes a dead technology
May 25 03:52:53 <fxspec06> i mean is it going to affect anything ? the obvious answer would be yes, but then i'd ask how it could possibly be worse than it is
May 25 03:53:16 <EricBlade-TP> it seems pretty u likely that they bought the team without the entire product as well
May 25 03:53:19 <summatusmentis> fxspec06: the big affect is if all the devs being paid by HP go off and do other googley things
May 25 03:53:40 <summatusmentis> how do you buy an open source project
May 25 03:54:24 <EricBlade-TP> its still owned by hp even if its open
May 25 03:54:33 <EricBlade-TP> well i guess they could buy them and fork it
May 25 03:55:21 <summatusmentis> _what_ is owned by HP?
May 25 03:55:23 <summatusmentis> the brand?
May 25 03:55:29 <fxspec06> would HP even sell enyo ?
May 25 03:55:36 <fxspec06> is it worth anything to sell ?
May 25 03:55:50 <fxspec06> don't they have at least something to gain from it other than nothing
May 25 03:56:46 <summatusmentis> all it would take is hiring out the dev team, fork enyo, call it 'nonyo' and move on
May 25 03:56:58 <summatusmentis> then HP is left with a dead code-base
May 25 03:57:27 <EricBlade-TP> well.. dammit
May 25 03:57:29 <fxspec06> this is strange timing for an article.
May 25 03:57:50 <EricBlade-TP> webos is where i want to be
May 25 03:58:05 <EricBlade-TP> but that coukd really be it
May 25 03:58:20 <fxspec06> me too apparently, because i'm definitely not anywhere else
May 25 03:58:51 <fxspec06> i just don't understand what the article means
May 25 03:58:57 <summatusmentis> no one does
May 25 03:59:06 <fxspec06> what it says
May 25 03:59:10 <fxspec06> the way i read it
May 25 03:59:16 <EricBlade-TP> well i guess they could buy the team
May 25 03:59:29 <fxspec06> is that the entire current enyo team is moving and will now work at google.
May 25 03:59:56 <EricBlade-TP> i guess thats ok
May 25 03:59:58 <EricBlade-TP> wait
May 25 04:00:04 <EricBlade-TP> ok
May 25 04:00:06 <invalidopcode> its a little late for an Apirl Fool's joke
May 25 04:00:08 <summatusmentis> I have this vague sense, based on no fact, that this means that they hired the devs working on enyo
May 25 04:00:14 <EricBlade-TP> maybe google wants webos now
May 25 04:00:24 <fxspec06> chris wrote it
May 25 04:00:36 <fxspec06> there has to be alterior motive
May 25 04:00:48 <fxspec06> they wouldn't just buy enyo. android doesn't use web technologies
May 25 04:00:55 <summatusmentis> chromeos?
May 25 04:00:56 <EricBlade-TP> i dont know any webzine personalities
May 25 04:01:14 <summatusmentis> android moving towards web technologies?
May 25 04:01:32 <EricBlade-TP> is ares in the enyo team or the webos team
May 25 04:01:46 <summatusmentis> oooh, ares, good call
May 25 04:01:47 <EricBlade-TP> i guess it doesnt matter they are both open now
May 25 04:02:00 <fxspec06> if i had to guess, i'd say enyo
May 25 04:02:05 <EricBlade-TP> maybe google has been behind the whole thing
May 25 04:02:08 <summatusmentis> it's in the enyojs github repo
May 25 04:02:43 <summatusmentis> EricBlade-TP: I find that hard to believe, why wouldn't they just buy the tech outright?
May 25 04:02:45 <EricBlade-TP> well.. if this screws any chance for open webos.. i have basically lost all of my marketable skills this week lol
May 25 04:03:16 <fxspec06> and my ex-intern company is pretty much screwed, too
May 25 04:03:28 <fxspec06> which is kinda lol
May 25 04:03:33 <summatusmentis> it's all open source
May 25 04:03:45 <summatusmentis> there's nothing stopping the code from continuting to work
May 25 04:03:46 <EricBlade-TP> well if they took the whole or majority of the team, that impliesthe product will remain, id say
May 25 04:03:48 <fxspec06> it's not going to grow if nobody's working on it
May 25 04:04:04 <summatusmentis> EricBlade-TP: google does that for all sorts of things
May 25 04:04:32 <fxspec06> it'd still exist, but it'd exist in a jquery-like land
May 25 04:04:40 <invalidopcode> or what if google integrates enyo into android, wouldn't that be a plus?
May 25 04:04:40 <summatusmentis> I would hope Google doesn't have plans to kill of pretty reasonable web tech
May 25 04:05:05 <summatusmentis> hell, who knows, maybe it's to move android away from patent infringements
May 25 04:05:12 <fxspec06> maybe open webos was a lie, and HP was just buying time to keep enough players to fix enyo so it worked on all platforms
May 25 04:05:30 <invalidopcode> hahahaha
May 25 04:05:48 <fxspec06> have we actually seen any open webos
May 25 04:05:57 <fxspec06> lol
May 25 04:06:10 <EricBlade-TP> not much
May 25 04:06:39 <EricBlade-TP> i got some useful info from db8 and.  novacomd
May 25 04:07:40 <EricBlade-TP> well... hopefully it will be cleared up tomorrow as to what this means to us
May 25 04:08:20 <fxspec06> wait
May 25 04:08:24 <summatusmentis> so, big downside, possibly. I just convinced my advisor that we should move away from dev'ing for only android, because web technologies + phonegap gets us more platform coverage
May 25 04:08:35 <fxspec06> enyo is open sourced. so nobody needs to buy it, even if HP owns it
May 25 04:08:38 <summatusmentis> EricBlade-TP: that sounds all too familiar
May 25 04:08:54 <fxspec06> Google went to the enyo team and said hey, we're gonna give you guys more money, come work for us
May 25 04:08:55 <summatusmentis> fxspec06: precisely, which means they bought out the employees
May 25 04:09:15 <fxspec06> and now HP has nothing. if that's true.
May 25 04:09:31 <fxspec06> the question is how many
May 25 04:09:37 <EricBlade-TP> well you can do multiplatform with anything in phonegap .. but i think enyo has the widest range
May 25 04:09:41 <summatusmentis> https://twitter.com/mattsmcnulty/status/205873152243408896
May 25 04:10:00 <summatusmentis> so, they hired matt at least
May 25 04:10:23 <fxspec06> ...................
May 25 04:11:06 <summatusmentis> he's being coy, he probably can't officially say anything until something official is said
May 25 04:13:26 <summatusmentis> I'm kind of expecting this means that google wants to fund enyo
May 25 04:14:01 <EricBlade-TP> i want to remain optimistic, but ive already effectively had my primary marketable skill given an unknown shelf life this week, with the cancellation of unrealscript
May 25 04:15:16 <invalidopcode> EricBlade-TP: you should learn C++ :)
May 25 04:15:21 <fxspec06> i find it hard to remain optimistic about this_.
May 25 04:15:43 <summatusmentis> so, a few things. enyo has been Matt's baby. The enyo people seem like people who would want to continue working on enyo (given that they're still at HP). Google does web tech. Nothing posted so far has suggested that this means enyo goes away.
May 25 04:16:08 <summatusmentis> If it were a bad thing, HP PR would be out in droves
May 25 04:16:14 <fxspec06> the optimism left is what? that enyo works on all platforms now?
May 25 04:16:18 <EricBlade-TP> i have been working some in c++ lately, but 20 years of rust to get thru is not easily broken lol
May 25 04:16:30 <summatusmentis> fxspec06: enyo works on all platforms, and is backed by Google
May 25 04:16:36 <fxspec06> i may as well have learned jquery, and that's really kinda harsh..
May 25 04:17:20 <invalidopcode> yeah, fxspec06 if anything, wouldn't the manpower of Google behind enyo be at least a good thing?
May 25 04:17:21 <fxspec06> but we don't know that
May 25 04:17:28 <fxspec06> they could be hiring them for something else
May 25 04:17:37 <summatusmentis> I'm _really_ skeptical they'd all just leave enyo
May 25 04:17:41 <summatusmentis> particularly matt
May 25 04:17:49 <fxspec06> google has a LOT of money
May 25 04:17:53 <fxspec06> don't underestimate that
May 25 04:18:10 <invalidopcode> they also could be building nuclear weapons.... anything is possible, you need to be a little bit optimistic
May 25 04:18:11 <fxspec06> they can put fires out of anything if they wanted
May 25 04:18:22 <summatusmentis> you don't think matt would have gone to google already if that's what he cared about?
May 25 04:18:29 <invalidopcode> they can also add fuel to those fires if they wanted too
May 25 04:18:53 <summatusmentis> he's clearly a pretty crack web guy
May 25 04:19:13 <fxspec06> ok so let's say they'll keep working on enyo, which is most likely
May 25 04:20:01 <fxspec06> what are they going to do with it? incorporate it into android?
May 25 04:20:34 <fxspec06> what does that mean for webos? do webos and android now merge into a giant operating system? does HP now have a deal with Google?
May 25 04:20:56 <summatusmentis> or ChromeOS, or GWT, or just to support their own mobile app developments on multiple platforms
May 25 04:21:20 <fxspec06> remember HP is close partners with microsoft, or at least was
May 25 04:21:29 <fxspec06> but that was then, this is meg whitman
May 25 04:22:10 <summatusmentis> bed
May 25 04:22:14 <fxspec06> goodnight
May 25 04:22:54 <invalidopcode> fxspec06: i think the best thing to do right now is to just sit tight and wait to see what HP says
May 25 04:23:00 <fxspec06> https://twitter.com/MrVideoGameProd/status/205875922648313856
May 25 04:24:16 <invalidopcode> who's that?
May 25 04:25:52 <EricBlade-TP> im. so confused.
May 25 04:25:59 <fxspec06> me too
May 25 04:26:38 <invalidopcode> yeah
May 25 04:26:56 <EricBlade-TP> well i imagine some of the people may have bailed
May 25 04:27:29 <EricBlade-TP> some people arent primarily motivated by whatever google offered
May 25 04:27:35 <invalidopcode> this is a random idea... but what if they had finished internal development for enyo, so now the team is moving to google?
May 25 04:27:42 <EricBlade-TP> but they arent gonna hang around by themselves
May 25 04:30:15 <EricBlade-TP> they used to teach me there were three primary motivations.. money, personal advancement/success/recognition, and.. i cant remember the third one. probably because it doesnt faactor for me :)
May 25 04:31:54 <fxspec06> enyo is open source. google can copy it and effectively change / use / reuse whatever they want however they want, and they have the guys who created it to do it, and they don'thave to pay a cent
May 25 04:32:03 <EricBlade-TP> hmm matts was the 'senior director webos platform' now not just enyo
May 25 04:32:38 <fxspec06> the senior director was changing on a bi-weekly basis
May 25 04:36:29 <EricBlade-TP> ive got my pre3 running at 125mhz
May 25 04:36:48 <invalidopcode> EricBlade-TP: he's listed on the openwebos page as the enyo leader http://openwebosproject.org/governance.html
May 25 04:37:07 <EricBlade-TP> almost 3 hrs tether with 47% battery left
May 25 04:37:35 <EricBlade-TP> adora knows whats happenin . . . right? *looks at adora* tell us a happy story?
May 25 04:37:59 <Adora> I can't say anything right now
May 25 04:38:03 <invalidopcode> :/
May 25 04:38:04 <Adora> give me like, 30 minutes
May 25 04:38:08 <invalidopcode> :)
May 25 04:38:14 <Adora> but don't assume the worst  =]
May 25 04:38:47 <invalidopcode> :))
May 25 04:39:12 <invalidopcode> did you hear that fxspec06... she says don't assume the worst :P
May 25 04:40:33 <RagingMind> my imagination is pretty active so when I assume the worst it's pretty bad
May 25 04:40:36 <fxspec06> hey, i've seen some fake smiles before. who's to say i should trust an adora =||||||
May 25 04:40:49 <RagingMind> not assuming that is only a slight relief
May 25 04:41:01 <Adora> well it's not like I'm trying to distract you with a puppy
May 25 04:41:20 <EricBlade-TP> adora, im just a little concerned because i already put my eggs on a sinking ship, and ive already lost one of my marketable skills this week. :)
May 25 04:41:36 <fxspec06> well maybe a puppy would have been a better choice. i like puppies.
May 25 04:41:37 <RagingMind> PUPPY?!?!? where?!
May 25 04:41:42 <invalidopcode> someone knock fxspec06 out until we get offical news... at least for the mercy of our twitter feeds :P
May 25 04:41:55 <fxspec06> i'm gonna go get some soda
May 25 04:42:01 <EricBlade-TP> see you chuck knew what you all wanted lol.. puppies.
May 25 04:42:18 <EricBlade-TP> *you guys
May 25 04:43:13 <fxspec06> maybe i'll find puppy soda in the fridge
May 25 04:43:20 <RagingMind> a phone/tablet doesn't even need to communicate, all it has to to is strategically distract the user with puppies and it'll be a success
May 25 04:43:41 <EricBlade-TP> ragingmind does webos have a cheezburger app...
May 25 04:43:50 <RagingMind> puppy soda...  :(  I'm going to bed soon, please don't give me nightmares
May 25 04:43:54 <EricBlade-TP> that caches for offline use
May 25 04:45:21 <PatrickC> invalidopcode, ping?
May 25 04:45:53 <EricBlade-TP> no pinging werehaving a serious freakout here lol
May 25 04:47:26 <PatrickC> uh oh.
May 25 04:47:27 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 04:47:59 <PatrickC> man.. puppies as distractions remind me of chuq...
May 25 04:48:00 <invalidopcode> PatrickC: pong
May 25 04:48:03 <PatrickC> *le sigh*
May 25 04:56:17 <EricBlade-TP> lol
May 25 04:56:28 <fxspec06> ok, i got a bagel and a soda. what am i missing
May 25 04:56:48 <PatrickC> being reminded of chuq
May 25 04:56:58 <fxspec06> an official adora-puppy
May 25 04:57:07 <EricBlade-TP> i think chuq was a good guy
May 25 04:57:50 <fxspec06> chuq wanted to move on. he made that decision on his own
May 25 04:57:59 <fxspec06> he's resting
May 25 04:58:25 <EricBlade-TP> what time did adorasay 30 min lol
May 25 04:58:44 <fxspec06> i wonder what time zone that's based on
May 25 04:58:53 <wrea> pst
May 25 04:59:02 <fxspec06> it's 10p PST i suppose .. ? right
May 25 04:59:30 <wrea> plus it'd be 30 minutes no matter the time zone
May 25 05:00:16 <fxspec06> right. i don't have timestamps turned on
May 25 05:01:02 <wrea> maybe its about time you do :P
May 25 05:01:05 <fxspec06> i don't even know how to turn them on
May 25 05:01:08 <invalidopcode> she said that at 9:38
May 25 05:01:43 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 05:01:55 <PatrickC> 9:38 in whos timezone?
May 25 05:02:00 <PatrickC> cause its 12:00 here ;)
May 25 05:02:15 <EricBlade-TP> ok so 8 min
May 25 05:02:25 <EricBlade-TP> 6
May 25 05:02:48 <fxspec06> i suppose, looking at it objectively, enyo is a separate component of webos and is not required for the operating system to load
May 25 05:03:32 <invalidopcode> 5
May 25 05:03:45 <HattCzech> Adora: you're in cali, right?
May 25 05:03:48 <fxspec06> webos operating system coders didn't leave.. right
May 25 05:04:11 <fxspec06> anyone know a lot about the OS?
May 25 05:05:41 <larry101> anyone read the latest? enyo team has quit and moved to google
May 25 05:05:50 <fxspec06> woah
May 25 05:05:53 <fxspec06> no way
May 25 05:05:55 <invalidopcode> OMG really?
May 25 05:06:03 * fxspec06 puppies
May 25 05:06:06 <EricBlade-TP> larry101: lies, im sure. lol
May 25 05:06:23 <PatrickC> fxspec06, stop reminding me of Chuq :P
May 25 05:06:31 <larry101> if it is true then this is one of the finniest things ever
May 25 05:06:43 <EricBlade-TP> in the modern internet, if it happened any more than 5 minutes ago its old news, larry101
May 25 05:06:44 <HattCzech> fxspec06 carries on the tradition :)
May 25 05:06:57 <larry101> i wouldn't be surprised if it was true. they are bound to get canned eventually
May 25 05:07:10 <HattCzech> anyone in here familiar with ez-ipupdate?
May 25 05:07:20 <HattCzech> and the nuances of at&t?
May 25 05:08:20 <rrix> What's the word, everyone?
May 25 05:08:29 <HattCzech> PENGUINS!
May 25 05:08:32 <HattCzech> that's the word
May 25 05:08:38 <invalidopcode> yeah Adora its been 30 mins :P
May 25 05:08:40 <rrix> Well, we're all linux friends here
May 25 05:08:51 <fxspec06> it's totally at minimum partly true
May 25 05:09:00 <rrix> heh
May 25 05:09:02 * rrix scrollbacks
May 25 05:10:14 <larry101> well the source looks concrete so likely true
May 25 05:10:48 <fxspec06> cparsons just posted an article on webosnation, titled 'enyo team rumored to quit'
May 25 05:10:57 <fxspec06> that's partly a different story
May 25 05:11:00 <fxspec06> http://www.webosnation.com/enyo-team-rumored-have-quit-hp-moving-google-0
May 25 05:12:05 <fxspec06> i see a diff. between quitting something and between being hired by another company. but there still no details.
May 25 05:13:16 <EricBlade-TP> well im not at allqueestioning the truths i want to know what it means to me, then to the entire platform sincethat will directly affect me, and all the people who have helped me get where i am now
May 25 05:13:44 <rrix> Yeah, I'm investing a lot in the platform since the open sourcing, and it's kind of important to see what happens in that long term
May 25 05:14:01 <EricBlade-TP> i want to say that im concerned with the fate of the enyo devs, but im sure google pays better than being a webos dev :|
May 25 05:14:47 <fxspec06> anybody who comes in here clearly has a lot invested in the platform. =\ some of us more than others, granted
May 25 05:15:17 <PatrickC> yeah
May 25 05:15:40 <PatrickC> i have 9 webOS phone boxes, and 4 touchpad boxes within 10 feet of me :/
May 25 05:15:51 <larry101> what did you think would become of webOS?
May 25 05:16:04 <larry101> as far as I see it has been dead for a very long time
May 25 05:16:10 <invalidopcode> PatrickC: stop bragging :P
May 25 05:16:21 <PatrickC> hehe
May 25 05:16:29 <PatrickC> and more devices then that near me ;)
May 25 05:16:35 <EricBlade-TP> maybe this will bring a full function cm9 to our devices lol
May 25 05:16:45 <PatrickC> from what i hear, a little birdie told me that invalidopcode should be getting a Pre3 soon
May 25 05:16:54 <PatrickC> EricBlade-TP, lol
May 25 05:17:15 <fxspec06> larry101: i wasn't expecting much from webos itself, but i have spent the better part of the last year of my life working with practically strictly enyo
May 25 05:17:16 <invalidopcode> PatrickC: hahaha :P
May 25 05:17:17 <rrix> larry101: There's a big difference to me in "the future of enyo" and "the future of webos"
May 25 05:18:23 <EricBlade-TP> rrix: im curious what your investment is
May 25 05:18:25 <fxspec06> enyo is/was/status:unknown the diamond on the ring finger HP flashed at us when the touchpad went down the tube
May 25 05:18:33 <invalidopcode> realistically, even if the enyo team vanished off the face of the earth, your investment would still be safe, because enyo still exists and still can be improved, but the community would have to stand up and do it
May 25 05:18:47 <EricBlade-TP> fx: middle finger you mean
May 25 05:18:53 <rrix> EricBlade-TP: A small handful of internal applications and about 30 hours a week of NDA'd mobile client work
May 25 05:19:00 <fxspec06> yeah my investment was still worth it, too because i learned a lot of JS
May 25 05:19:17 <EricBlade-TP> rrix: nice
May 25 05:19:38 <rrix> I'm working on some open source stuff but client work is most of my dev energy lately :(
May 25 05:20:15 <rrix> My hackerspace's doorlock system hsa the frontend written in enyo2, which I'd like to not have to rewrite again
May 25 05:20:15 <EricBlade-TP> yeah me too
May 25 05:20:20 <fxspec06> lol, just saw a tweet for 'my webos newspaper is out'
May 25 05:20:29 <fxspec06> i think he's gonna need more editions today
May 25 05:20:32 <EricBlade-TP> clients pay a lot better though
May 25 05:21:28 <fxspec06> good news is, my like new gsm pre 2 is worth exactly as much as it was when i got it
May 25 05:21:35 <fxspec06> ( for free )
May 25 05:22:04 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 05:22:58 <EricBlade-TP> 4 hrs on tether on the pre3 and still 33% batt
May 25 05:23:43 <EricBlade-TP> and i cant detect that its any warmer than at normal idle
May 25 05:23:55 <EricBlade-TP> at full speed it gets hand burningly warm
May 25 05:26:28 <HattCzech> anyone know the format of the ez-ipupdate.cache file? (what's the first number)
May 25 05:32:27 <EricBlade-TP> no :P
May 25 05:32:54 <HattCzech> yeah, i can't seem to find it, either
May 25 05:34:10 <fxspec06> http://t.co/bWkXVUR8
May 25 05:34:13 <fxspec06> official statement
May 25 05:34:22 <fxspec06> open webos "is on schedule."
May 25 05:35:57 <fxspec06> also it "won't be the entire team leaving"
May 25 05:36:33 <PatrickC> matt.... no! :(
May 25 05:37:04 <larry101> open webos will join the ranks of the other unsupported mobile operating systems that no one cares about. after open webos I wonder what HP has planned
May 25 05:38:09 <destinal> larry101: Enyo is not webos
May 25 05:38:12 <invalidopcode> larry101: stop being such a pessimist
May 25 05:38:20 <destinal> it is a small part of webos and not all the team is leaving
May 25 05:38:46 <larry101> wasn't refering to enyo
May 25 05:39:10 <destinal> larry101: heh ok but in that case I don't see one what basis you make the prediction
May 25 05:39:15 <larry101> when webbos is open sourced what does that man exactly for the platform
May 25 05:39:58 <PatrickC> android is open source, and running on 1000s of touchpads
May 25 05:40:11 <PatrickC> before webOs was even announced open source it was running on an Evo 3D
May 25 05:40:37 <larry101> android has google doing the major development work and working with manufacturers plus advertising
May 25 05:40:52 <PatrickC> so Google built CM9 for the touchpad?
May 25 05:40:59 <larry101> actually it never ran on the evo
May 25 05:41:11 <PatrickC> actually, i know the people who ported it
May 25 05:41:43 <DraX> actually, *yawn*
May 25 05:42:04 <PatrickC> well, it wasnt a full port. but without all the sources, it was as far as they could get :)
May 25 05:42:13 <PatrickC> but still, it shows promise in what we will do with OpenwebSO
May 25 05:42:17 <PatrickC> OpenwebOS*
May 25 05:42:23 <fxspec06> so who are the other names then?
May 25 05:42:36 <destinal> fxspec06: there were pictures posted
May 25 05:43:14 <PatrickC> destinal, were u involved in the port? (or can u say? :P)
May 25 05:44:30 <destinal> PatrickC: someone who was posted info about it publicly on twitter so the info is out there :)
May 25 05:44:49 <PatrickC> hehe
May 25 05:44:54 <PatrickC> ive known about the port for a while :)
May 25 05:46:31 <fxspec06> is sugardave part of the enyo team
May 25 05:46:39 <fxspec06> i didn't see any pictures
May 25 05:49:26 <EricBlade-TP> i think sugardave was/is? on apps?
May 25 05:50:31 <EricBlade-TP> 4hrs of freetether and still 25%. nice.
May 25 05:52:08 <EricBlade-TP> hp releasing an official comment to anyone at 11pm just sounds weird. lol
May 25 05:52:22 <EricBlade-TP> but business isnt all banker hours anymore i guess
May 25 05:53:38 <fxspec06> when something happens and someone tells something to someone and an article is posted on the internet and people start freaking out, i guess it doesn't really matter what time it is
May 25 05:57:16 <invalidopcode> so who was saying earlier that we don't have enough traffic in this channel? :P
May 25 05:57:29 * fxspec06 slowly raises hand
May 25 05:57:34 <invalidopcode> hahaha
May 25 05:58:05 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 05:58:08 <EricBlade-TP> theres like maybe 6 of us out of the hundred that are here normally that say anything
May 25 05:58:20 <fxspec06> still not sure what any of this means for webos. according to hp, it won't affect the openwebos schedule
May 25 05:58:29 <fxspec06> which i can buy i suppose
May 25 05:58:36 <EricBlade-TP> and ithink most of us have shown up recently
May 25 05:59:15 <EricBlade-TP> well, ok, this doesnt affect the schedules, who knowswhat was up with enyo after the last milestone anyway
May 25 05:59:33 <EricBlade-TP> but how does it affect webos
May 25 06:00:15 <Adora> OK SO
May 25 06:00:27 <Adora> ENYO
May 25 06:00:36 <PatrickC> Adora!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
May 25 06:00:38 <destinal> EEEEENNNNNYOOOOO!
May 25 06:00:46 * fxspec06 ENYO
May 25 06:00:47 <invalidopcode> Lives??? :P
May 25 06:00:52 <Adora> it continues
May 25 06:00:56 <destinal> (like  Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!)
May 25 06:01:06 <EricBlade-TP>  E! n! Y! o!
May 25 06:01:20 <PatrickC> woo!!!!!
May 25 06:01:21 <Adora> there are some team members leaving, but not the whole team
May 25 06:01:23 * fxspec06 drinks some soda to that
May 25 06:01:30 <invalidopcode> Three cheers for Enyo!
May 25 06:01:35 <PatrickC> Adora, and Matt is one of the members leaving?
May 25 06:01:43 <Adora> PatrickC: yes
May 25 06:01:53 * PatrickC *sad panda*
May 25 06:02:17 <Adora> so
May 25 06:02:20 <Adora> that kinda sucks
May 25 06:02:21 <destinal> Adora: with the financials situation, just glad the news isn't that Open webOS team has been sacked
May 25 06:02:22 <EricBlade-TP> is adora leaving? ben? anyone else that talks to us? heh
May 25 06:02:52 <Adora> and may slow us down, but won't break us down
May 25 06:03:02 <EricBlade-TP> i thought his name was matts with an s
May 25 06:03:14 <fxspec06> that would answer my question before i hit enter
May 25 06:03:26 <Adora> doesn't impact Open webOS at all, Enyo and webOS are separate things
May 25 06:03:39 * oil_ continues waiting for open webos
May 25 06:03:42 <fxspec06> so enyo stays and carries on, like the wayward wind
May 25 06:03:42 <destinal> Adora: of course, still, glad that wasn't the news :)
May 25 06:03:47 <PatrickC> oil_ lives! :P
May 25 06:04:11 <fxspec06> and sugardave ?
May 25 06:04:25 <PatrickC> what about Ben? isn't he on the enyo team? is he staying?
May 25 06:04:43 * EricBlade-TP throws his hat in the ring to be the next director of webos :) i have management and development experience .. haha
May 25 06:04:51 <fxspec06> lol
May 25 06:05:10 <invalidopcode> EricBlade-TP could use an assistant :)
May 25 06:05:23 <PatrickC> 2 assistants :)
May 25 06:05:24 <fxspec06> not fair. i get first dibs, and i pass because i'm still in college
May 25 06:05:25 <Adora> Ben hasn't given notice, and neither have I
May 25 06:05:36 <EricBlade-TP> and with 12 years of sales experience means my qualifications were at least as good as leo's
May 25 06:05:46 <invalidopcode> hahahahahah
May 25 06:06:06 <invalidopcode> fxspec06: naw, we're new blood, so we work for less :P
May 25 06:06:18 <fxspec06> oh do we now.
May 25 06:06:28 <PatrickC> EricBlade-TP, with my 2 months of sales, my qualifications are as good as Leo's :P
May 25 06:06:37 <fxspec06> i work for the pennies i make in the app catalog
May 25 06:06:39 * invalidopcode was referring to himself and PatrickC
May 25 06:06:54 <invalidopcode> but if you want to include yourself, go right ahead :P
May 25 06:06:57 <fxspec06> lol
May 25 06:07:00 <PatrickC> fxspec06, i work for the $0 i make in the app catalog :)
May 25 06:07:02 <EricBlade-TP> patrickc apparently leo was quite accomplished in sap's sales dept before going into the management ranks and making everyone hate him
May 25 06:07:27 <PatrickC> EricBlade-TP, see, i dont need years of experience to make everyone hate me :P
May 25 06:07:31 <EricBlade-TP> adora, thank you for telling us
May 25 06:07:42 <invalidopcode> yes thank you Adora for the info
May 25 06:07:44 <PatrickC> thanks for keeping us informed Adora
May 25 06:07:46 <EricBlade-TP> i have to leave where im at,ill catch up when i get back home
May 25 06:07:50 <PatrickC> oh, btw, u have a PM Adora :)
May 25 06:07:53 <Adora> doing what I can  =]
May 25 06:07:55 <fxspec06> yes, much thanks
May 25 06:08:10 <fxspec06> handled it well, kept everyone calm etc etc puppies
May 25 06:08:19 <PatrickC> puppies.. chuq
May 25 06:08:34 <EricBlade-TP> i cantmove, but i would offer my services via remote, if that were possible.. and probably cheaper than anyone else. lol
May 25 06:08:35 <PatrickC> lol.. i still remember the pictures of puppies chuq would post :P
May 25 06:08:38 * PatrickC goes to find them 
May 25 06:08:54 <PatrickC> EricBlade-TP, i work for free :P
May 25 06:09:10 <EricBlade-TP> i cant do that, ihave a family to support.
May 25 06:09:20 <PatrickC> i dont :)
May 25 06:09:56 <EricBlade-TP> ok i gotta go, cant drive and irc .. so l8r
May 25 06:10:08 <invalidopcode> haha bye EricBlade-TP
May 25 06:10:11 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:10:16 <invalidopcode> too late...
May 25 06:10:28 <PatrickC> hey oil_, there are still wicers roaming around!
May 25 06:10:34 * invalidopcode gets back to homework after all that fun 
May 25 06:10:35 <oil_> yeah
May 25 06:10:41 <fxspec06> well, now that i'm wide awake
May 25 06:10:47 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:10:55 <invalidopcode> its the soda ;)
May 25 06:11:03 <PatrickC> i have tons of articles i have to write.. and school i have to do :P
May 25 06:11:09 <fxspec06> decaf soda
May 25 06:11:23 <PatrickC> the joys of being a 10th grade blog writer and developer :P
May 25 06:11:49 <fxspec06> it's cool, i can stay up late. nobody's here for next week & half anyways
May 25 06:11:57 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:12:02 <invalidopcode> why is that?
May 25 06:12:09 <PatrickC> im just in my room, while everyone else is asleep :P
May 25 06:12:13 <PatrickC> cryptk, you missed all the fun :)
May 25 06:12:30 <cryptk> PatrickC, don't think so ;)
May 25 06:12:30 <fxspec06> parents drove to KC (from MA) to visit for a cpl weeks
May 25 06:12:33 <fxspec06> this is night 2
May 25 06:12:44 <cryptk> PatrickC, http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/465064_3187379971777_1484150443_2102947_1387718273_o.jpg
May 25 06:12:48 <invalidopcode> fxspec06: ah nice :P
May 25 06:12:53 <cryptk> that would be where I was sitting at the Rammstein concert ;)
May 25 06:13:08 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:13:09 <cryptk> so something tells me I had more fun than #webos did ;)
May 25 06:13:16 <PatrickC> you missed all the geeky fun  :P
May 25 06:13:37 <cryptk> The Pre2 took decent pictures given the hard conditions
May 25 06:13:37 <fxspec06> the only sleep i've had is an hr i dozed off during my 4th play through of tron: legacy
May 25 06:13:39 <invalidopcode> yeah we had record breaking traffic in here :P
May 25 06:13:45 <cryptk> dark arena, bright pyrotechnics
May 25 06:13:56 <invalidopcode> fxspec06: dude, I love that movie... especially the music haha
May 25 06:14:05 <fxspec06> it's my favorite movie since the lion king
May 25 06:14:27 <fxspec06> it's one of those movies i could watch over and over and over and over and over, and never get sick of it
May 25 06:14:40 <invalidopcode> haha yeah me too
May 25 06:16:34 * invalidopcode wishes there was a world-wide webOS meetup he could go to
May 25 06:16:47 <PatrickC> theres one in nashville soon :)
May 25 06:16:51 <invalidopcode> I would really like to me some of the people in here in person :P
May 25 06:16:57 <PatrickC> thats closer then world-wide ;)
May 25 06:17:11 <oil_> they're all pretty boring
May 25 06:17:24 <oil_> lol
May 25 06:17:32 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:17:33 * cryptk especially
May 25 06:17:39 <PatrickC> stop talking about yourself oil_ :P
May 25 06:17:42 <cryptk> you guys would be disappointed if you met me, lol
May 25 06:18:14 <cryptk> you would expect me to be some super awesome webOS hacker extraordinaire, which is FAR from the case
May 25 06:18:26 <invalidopcode> haha idk, I'd like to meet EricBlade, PatrickC, Adora, destinal, a few others :P
May 25 06:18:33 <invalidopcode> oh and maybe cryptk :P
May 25 06:18:46 <invalidopcode> on second thought, naw....
May 25 06:18:48 <fxspec06> that's ok, i didn't want to meet you either
May 25 06:18:53 <invalidopcode> oh wait, I forgot fxspec06
May 25 06:18:54 <cryptk> I just run the servers
May 25 06:18:56 <fxspec06> lol
May 25 06:19:03 <fxspec06> tibfib_
May 25 06:19:09 * oil_ has only met adora on that list
May 25 06:19:12 <cryptk> everyone else writes code, ka6sox-farfarawa and I run the servers
May 25 06:19:16 <invalidopcode> I actually thought I added you first fxspec06 opps :P
May 25 06:19:25 <fxspec06> dawm_, haeffb
May 25 06:19:39 <invalidopcode> actually ka6sox-farfarawa i probably could meet, he's not too far from me
May 25 06:19:40 <fxspec06> that'd be an epic meetup
May 25 06:20:02 <invalidopcode> yes it would
May 25 06:20:12 <PatrickC> nashville is a very central location :)
May 25 06:20:20 <invalidopcode> naw... San Diego is more fun :P
May 25 06:20:23 <PatrickC> maybe try and get Rod to attend :)
May 25 06:20:29 <fxspec06> which is why we should go to a secluded island in the tropics
May 25 06:20:34 <destinal> invalidopcode: you're in so cal right?  I'm trying to move there soon
May 25 06:20:37 <PatrickC> Nashville has a bunch of country blonde girls :)
May 25 06:20:41 <invalidopcode> destinal: yup!
May 25 06:20:59 <invalidopcode> PatrickC: I just noticed that Rod isn't in here... he's in #webos-internals though
May 25 06:21:07 <PatrickC> yep
May 25 06:21:12 <destinal> I've met ka6sox-farfarawa but no one else really
May 25 06:21:16 <fxspec06> i've been to nashville, there's no girls there
May 25 06:21:21 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:21:27 <invalidopcode> fxspec06: that's all that matters? :P
May 25 06:21:31 * rrix doesn't really grok the latest updates
May 25 06:21:31 <fxspec06> there's highways and trees, and water
May 25 06:21:32 <PatrickC> i live near nashville, and trust me, theres girls :P
May 25 06:21:36 <fxspec06> but i haven't seen any girls
May 25 06:21:39 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:21:44 * cryptk has met ka6sox-farfarawa and halfhalo and someone else
May 25 06:21:50 <cryptk> I forget what their screenname was
May 25 06:21:52 <PatrickC> rod? :)
May 25 06:22:08 <cryptk> met them at the SCaLE before the last one
May 25 06:22:09 <invalidopcode> destinal: where again in SoCal were you moving?
May 25 06:22:12 <cryptk> wasn't rod, never met him
May 25 06:22:40 * PatrickC has to finish staining his decks tomorrow .... :/
May 25 06:22:44 <destinal> invalidopcode: looking at moving to temecula or somewhere around there
May 25 06:22:44 <PatrickC> so im off to bed
May 25 06:22:49 <PatrickC> dont have too much fun lol
May 25 06:23:03 <invalidopcode> destinal: ah, okay that not too far
May 25 06:23:24 <fxspec06> gn PatrickC
May 25 06:23:30 <invalidopcode> night PatrickC
May 25 06:23:34 <PatrickC> cya fxspec06 and in
May 25 06:23:36 <PatrickC> invalidopcode,
May 25 06:23:40 <PatrickC> tab-complete fail :P
May 25 06:23:47 <invalidopcode> .....
May 25 06:25:44 <invalidopcode> okay I think there's a bug in Project Macaw... its notified me of fxspec06 's mention of me like 5 times now
May 25 06:25:59 <fxspec06> there's no way i'd ever do that
May 25 06:26:06 <PatrickC> Project Macaw has no bugs
May 25 06:26:13 <PatrickC> just like wIRC has no bugs
May 25 06:26:19 <oil_> wirc has a bunch
May 25 06:26:26 <oil_> i just ignore them
May 25 06:26:27 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:26:46 <PatrickC> so oil, when do we get enyo wirc finished? ;)
May 25 06:26:55 <fxspec06> that's the only correct way to deal with them
May 25 06:27:00 <oil_> eventually
May 25 06:27:08 <invalidopcode> haha the "@_invalidopcode_ solid answer" one.... it keeps notifying me of that
May 25 06:27:47 <fxspec06> maybe because you favorited it, it knows you love it so much it keeps reminding you i said it
May 25 06:28:04 <PatrickC> lol
May 25 06:28:16 <invalidopcode> hahaha maybe... :P
May 25 06:28:20 <cryptk> anyway, I'm outta here
May 25 06:28:25 <cryptk> beer time
May 25 06:28:30 <invalidopcode> okay night cryptk
May 25 06:28:38 <PatrickC> cya cryptk
May 25 06:35:49 <invalidopcode> okay its probably time for me to go too... good night everyone
May 25 08:15:47 <ty_> fsdfsfdsfsdf
May 25 08:16:00 <ty_> #quit
May 25 08:16:03 <ty_> exit
May 25 08:16:09 <ty_> #exit
May 25 08:16:48 <rrix> My thoughts
May 25 08:16:51 <rrix> ty_: /quit
May 25 08:16:58 <rrix> or close the browser window
May 25 13:51:40 <EricBlade1> morning everyone
May 25 14:21:46 <EricBlade1> well it looks like group chat threading problems will cause significant issues for my irc plugin
May 25 14:30:22 <EricBlade1> grr. if it's not the group chat threader blowing up, it's the database watches blowing up.
May 25 14:34:53 <EricBlade1> i am also having a hard time telling if my service is exiting, or if palm-log just stops picking up things
May 25 15:04:11 <jobinar>  Am I at the right place to ask help troubleshooting my laptop?
May 25 15:47:53 <rwatkins> so, do we figure out who left by who stops committing to github over the next few days?
May 25 15:49:20 <summatusmentis> we could
May 25 15:49:33 <summatusmentis> rwatkins: also, can I say? I love your snapscroller and menupane
May 25 15:49:40 <summatusmentis> both play a big role in the app I'm building
May 25 15:50:23 <rwatkins> cool- glad they're useful
May 25 15:51:19 <rwatkins> I use SnapScroller regularly, and go back and forth on using that MenuPane.  Currenty have a diff one with a simple translate for open/close.
May 25 15:52:06 <EricBlade1> rwatkins: what we do know is ben and adora are still on, matt is gone.  you probably knew all that already too
May 25 15:52:16 <rwatkins> was considering rewrite of Paper Mache in Enyo2, but now not so sure.
May 25 15:52:31 <rwatkins> ya, that I kinda figured out.
May 25 15:53:10 <rwatkins> But I assume Matts old crew is going with.  I totally understand though - I move in a pack with jobs as well.
May 25 15:54:46 <fxspec06> que es snap scroller
May 25 15:55:02 <rwatkins> there are is a set of ex-WaveMaker people that have written a bunch of Enyo2
May 25 15:55:19 <fxspec06> sugardave stays, too. but i learned he's part of dev rel team. which i should've known
May 25 15:55:31 <rwatkins> http://enyojs.com/gallery/#rwatkins.SnapScroller
May 25 15:56:14 <fxspec06> o damn neat
May 25 15:56:24 <rwatkins> Wrote my own "Pane" control as well, butmostly just because I didnt like the name "Book" :)
May 25 15:57:12 <summatusmentis> rwatkins: the point is, they're slick. I'm gonna be working on "percentizing" the snap scroller because I need multiple form-factors, but yeah
May 25 15:58:12 <summatusmentis> er.. not snapscroller, menupane
May 25 16:01:40 <rwatkins> MenuPane doesnt seem to have any dependancy on specific pixel values
May 25 16:02:31 <rwatkins> For scaling I've found using rem as a unit handy if you just need to scale up/down.  and reset the default size on the body tag
May 25 16:03:06 <rwatkins> http://snook.ca/archives/html_and_css/font-size-with-rem
May 25 16:05:04 <fxspec06> http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Cases-and-Bags/Laptop-Cases/FB343AA?HP-TouchPad-Case
May 25 16:05:08 <fxspec06> $5 case
May 25 16:33:26 * EricBlade1 cheers Adora
May 25 16:36:36 <halfhalo> ruhroh
May 25 16:37:02 * fxspec06 recalls the movie 'gladiator'
May 25 16:38:54 <oilsworkn> http://bit.ly/o3PmY6
May 25 16:45:26 * rwatkins has Enyo2-based PhoneGap app talkin NFC now.  Yea!  tap. tap. tap.
May 25 17:00:24 <madnificent> Adora: thanks for staying :) \o/
May 25 17:00:47 <madnificent> rwatkins: what does it do?  will you post something in the gallery for communicating with NFC?
May 25 17:01:28 <rwatkins> madnificent: its an internal think for my employer, so nothing for the gallery.
May 25 17:01:39 <rwatkins> s/think/thing/
May 25 17:01:52 <madnificent> rwatkins: i only meant an abstraction for NFC communication
May 25 17:01:58 <rwatkins> there is an nfc plugin for phonegap though https://github.com/chariotsolutions/phonegap-nfc
May 25 17:02:27 <madnificent> ah, that's basically what i was after then, i guess.
May 25 17:02:37 * madnificent sees the gallery as a kind of documentation thing
May 25 17:02:50 <madnificent> rwatkins: and congrats!
May 25 17:04:39 <rwatkins> I have a couple other UI things up in the gallery.
May 25 17:05:44 <madnificent> i know :)
May 25 17:14:22 <rwatkins> nice.  60% of the Enyo2 code has been written by devs leaving.  :/
May 25 17:14:54 <madnificent> rwatkins: where is that stated?
May 25 17:14:59 <rwatkins> https://twitter.com/dalmaer/status/206061549868154881
May 25 17:16:01 <rwatkins> that suggest atleast Steve Orvell and Scott Miles, and looking at github for enyo2 source, they wrote 60% of it.
May 25 17:16:10 <fxspec06> there's no way to spin that so it sounds good
May 25 17:16:54 <fxspec06> not to mention there's more .. "and the other team members"
May 25 17:17:13 <fxspec06> so it's really more 60%+
May 25 17:17:33 <rwatkins> 96% of the codebase for enyo2 source has a committer thats one of 4 people.
May 25 17:17:38 <madnificent> i wonder if it's still smart to spend /any/ time on enyo for me right now :/
May 25 17:17:58 <madnificent> how big is/was the enyo team?
May 25 17:18:03 <fxspec06> madnificent: enyo is still the best cross-platform dev tool
May 25 17:18:32 <madnificent> yes, but if all the devs run away from it then it may not be the case for long...
May 25 17:18:33 <fxspec06> if you understand it
May 25 17:19:05 <fxspec06> well it exists, and it's function will remain
May 25 17:19:35 <madnificent> but specific platform issues and the likes will still need to be figured out.  and i guess we shouldn't hope for anything in the range of canvas anymore
May 25 17:19:43 <fxspec06> even if it wasn't going to be worked on, there are still many reasons to use it
May 25 17:19:58 <madnificent> i still wonder how big the bloody team was.  isn't that stated anywhere?
May 25 17:20:26 <madnificent> doesn't change anything about my question as to whether or not it's smart
May 25 17:21:06 <rwatkins> depends on who picks it up to fix the bugs and continue to extend it.
May 25 17:21:13 <fxspec06> madnificent: 'specific platform issues' ? there should be minimal, enyo 1 worked fairly well on other platforms and enyo 2 fixed a lot of that already
May 25 17:21:38 <madnificent> enyo1 only ran on webkit.  i suspect more browsers to arrive on phones.  it's just the next step
May 25 17:21:38 <fxspec06> by doing away with webkit-specific code it runs in even I E
May 25 17:21:42 <fxspec06> that's a champ
May 25 17:22:00 <rwatkins> Its also "their vision" its hard to come in and build a framework to someone else' vision when they've all left.
May 25 17:22:01 <fxspec06> every mobile OS worth noting that i've ever worked with has had webkit
May 25 17:22:47 <madnificent> firefox is going to release their browser for mobile.  microsoft isn't going to use webkit either.
May 25 17:23:38 <fxspec06> right, i forgot about MS. but again enyo 2 works in IE
May 25 17:24:49 <madnificent> but again, browsers will change and someone will have to make the thing compatible once again.  it's going to be harder if there are no core devs available.  with hobby projects that's different, there are more committers (and there still are committers).
May 25 17:25:31 <madnificent> so it is really important to see how much of the team was actually lost.  if that's going to be taboo, then it must be really really really bad
May 25 17:26:19 <madnificent> mind you, i'm posing this all as a question.  but it is an important one.  chosing webos in the past has cost me quite a lot.  i don't like placing wrong bets
May 25 17:27:07 <fxspec06> i'm not disagreeing
May 25 17:34:43 <fxspec06> don't forget about the enyo people at google though
May 25 17:35:23 <fxspec06> if they're going to be using enyo in android places, or at least working on better html5 support over there, enyo will probably be a better choice than ever
May 25 17:35:43 <madnificent> no, but still.  how many people are there now which are payed for devving enyo at HP.  we know nothing about what google is going to try.
May 25 17:36:34 <fxspec06> i would have guessed before yesterday that number would be somewhere between 6 and 15
May 25 17:37:09 <fxspec06> probably not far off
May 25 17:37:22 <madnificent> so we're left with 3 - 12 people.  that's terrible to not at all bad
May 25 17:38:00 <fxspec06> but i feel like more people will have to pitch in. there's people on the webos team with enyo / webos knowledge that may have to shift responsibilities
May 25 17:38:16 <fxspec06> at least for a while
May 25 17:38:17 <rwatkins> HP has ~300k people.  Its not about the numbers, its about who.
May 25 17:40:12 <madnificent> rwatkins: yes, but we certainly won't have those insights.  i don't know how many, i certainly don't know who's working on enyo right now.  so the amount of people is probably the best metric we'll have towards seeing if enyo is still viable.
May 25 17:40:24 <fxspec06> like adora said, it's going to slow things down. but if they're truly committed, which is the real question here, and there's definitely people there who are committed, it will carry on
May 25 17:40:31 <rwatkins> no its really not.
May 25 17:40:58 <fxspec06> i have to disagree madnificent
May 25 17:41:16 <madnificent> what metric do you expect to get right now?
May 25 17:41:35 <madnificent> do you *know* the devs that worked on enyo2?  do you know if there's talent left?
May 25 17:42:22 <rwatkins> I am fairly sure that the enyo architecture is the vision of a couple key people.
May 25 17:42:35 <rwatkins> I know that 96% of the code in Enyo was committed by 4 people.
May 25 17:42:45 <madnificent> i don't know any of them, so my best guess at seeing whether or not enyo is being dumped because of this (or if it's just an unlucky move for is) is seeing how many devs are still left
May 25 17:42:56 <rwatkins> Given that its quite a setback if even ~4 key enyo people left.
May 25 17:42:57 <fxspec06> all it takes is a few great brains
May 25 17:43:03 <madnificent> rwatkins: yeah, but that might be squashed commits
May 25 17:43:45 <rwatkins> the point is that Enyo's architecture and likey core implementaiton is the product of a handful of people.
May 25 17:44:09 <madnificent> also: there is certainly room for improvement in enyo2.  afaict, there's no multiple inheritance and there aren't before/after methods (or properties which compose).  i also haven't seen metaprogramming occur in it yet (but that may well be possible).
May 25 17:44:11 <rwatkins> someone else can step up and take it over, but its not the same to build on someone else work thats left, than to execute to your own vision.
May 25 17:44:44 <madnificent> that also depends.  sometimes new blood makes it that much better.  and not necessarily because the new blood is that much better.
May 25 17:44:45 <rwatkins> Enyo team came in, likely to work on Mojo.  Said "this is shit" and built Enyo instgead.
May 25 17:45:02 <fxspec06> of course there's room for improvement. there always is. but what's stopping HP from going out and hiring 10 javascript guru's
May 25 17:45:10 <fxspec06> would you feel different then?
May 25 17:45:12 <rwatkins> A replacement for the core enyo team would likely want to build their own vision.
May 25 17:45:26 <madnificent> fxspec06: certainly!  that would mean that hp is committed to the project
May 25 17:46:05 <madnificent> rwatkins: not necessarily.  as engineers, they must pick the path of least resistence.  it seems to make sense to keep devving on enyo as it is.
May 25 17:46:15 <fxspec06> that's probably going to happen, although it may not be 10
May 25 17:46:41 <rwatkins> a vast majority of guru level people prefer to write their own, rather than toil away on someone elses plan.
May 25 17:46:42 <fxspec06> but even still it'd take time to become familiar
May 25 17:47:04 <fxspec06> it's more likely other people familiar would pitch in
May 25 17:47:30 <fxspec06> or the guys who weren't working on the core parts will now have to step up
May 25 17:47:31 <rwatkins> particularly when those people ditched their own plan.
May 25 17:48:14 <madnificent> rwatkins: it fully depends on the project.  i'm generally the first to start writing my own, but enyo's interface seems to make sense.  there's little point in diverging once again.
May 25 17:48:15 <dwc-> boy
May 25 17:48:26 <dwc-> I haven't seen this much chatting in #webos since they killed webos hardware off
May 25 17:48:37 <madnificent> dwc-: that's when we come alive
May 25 17:49:04 <madnificent> dwc-: also, i've just started to bet on enyo, i don't want to get bitten by the undead spirit of palm once again :)
May 25 17:49:17 <fxspec06> ya, only friendly on days after shit hits the fan
May 25 17:50:15 <fxspec06> probably a good idea to lower the wager for a while, but it's still not a bad bet
May 25 17:51:11 <madnificent> i'm running a startup company.  there's two values to pick: A) 0% B) 100%  there's really little things that may go wrong.
May 25 17:53:07 <fxspec06> if your startup company relies heavily on web technologies, i'd go with B
May 25 17:53:13 <fxspec06> without hesitation
May 25 17:53:41 <madnificent> if you say that without first seeing what a company does, you shouldn't start one ;-)
May 25 17:54:41 <fxspec06> well i don't know what your company does
May 25 17:55:07 <madnificent> what i was implying is: don't jump too fast
May 25 17:56:04 <fxspec06> maybe it isn't the best time to to make a decision then
May 25 17:56:18 <madnificent> also, it's a business intelligence solution for smaller companies (meaning competitively priced and very very much automation)
May 25 17:57:01 <madnificent> how can you /not/ make a decision?  what are you going to say?  oh yeah the user interface?  we haven't done a UI yet, we're still looking at the future of some libraries... doesn't sound quite right, does it? :)
May 25 17:57:20 <fxspec06> if you're having trouble making that decision, i'd recommend focusing on something else for a while until things get sorted out
May 25 17:57:28 <fxspec06> there, you answered it already
May 25 17:57:53 <madnificent> can we stop this crap-talk and try to get some content for answers in
May 25 17:58:11 <madnificent> if people know who stayed, or what hp will do.  feel free to throw it in.
May 25 18:01:41 <fxspec06> god damnit. titanium is doing the this. >> thistory thing again
May 25 18:03:08 * fxspec06 nvm
May 25 18:54:21 <shades> sup
May 25 20:22:17 <dawm_> moo
May 25 20:24:28 <oilsworkn> says the cow
May 25 20:26:41 * dwc- resists the urge to /exec -o cowsay moo
May 25 22:31:55 <madnificent> is there anyone that works at hp here?
May 25 22:33:03 <madnificent> just a dull note, but when people leave and you think it may stir some stuff. write a press release like http://blog.enyojs.com/post/23752115577/enyo-continues before/when some important people are leaving.  just to make my heart race a bit less.
May 25 22:33:25 <madnificent> and that's just about what i wanted to hear in order to keep my trust in enyo2 :)
May 25 22:35:25 <madnificent> so ahm, thanks
May 25 23:18:19 <fxspec06> http://cdn.webosnation.com/sites/webosnation.com/files/imagecache/large/postimages/380846/ENYO.jpg
May 25 23:18:58 <madnificent> you know, if they were going te let the palm brand die, they could've named the whole new webos thing "Palm" would've been awesome
May 25 23:19:03 <madnificent> though that superhero image is a tad cool
May 25 23:19:51 <bigbluehat> +1
May 25 23:20:23 <fxspec06> that is an awesome image.
May 25 23:51:49 <fxspec06> this enyo list has a bug
May 25 23:52:00 <fxspec06> i'm not sure what's causing it, or how to reproduce it
May 25 23:52:05 <fxspec06> but it definitely has a bug
May 25 23:52:18 <fxspec06> fudge
May 25 23:59:30 <invalidopcode-TP> fxspec06: what's it doing?
May 25 23:59:40 <fxspec06> i'm not sure if it's my code or what
May 26 00:00:11 <fxspec06> it's.... it appears it's rendering certain rows in certain places
May 26 00:00:18 <fxspec06> like
May 26 00:00:30 <fxspec06> the index won't be correct
May 26 00:00:49 <fxspec06> but then when i click on it it's fixed until i re-render the whole list
May 26 00:01:02 <fxspec06> and i can't fix it by rendering that specific row manually
May 26 00:01:07 <fxspec06> i have to click it
May 26 00:03:35 <invalidopcode-TP> hm... interesting, Enyo 1 or 2?
May 26 00:03:56 <fxspec06> oh also
May 26 00:04:04 <fxspec06> let's say i have a list item
May 26 00:04:40 <fxspec06> if i have a component in there with an ontap set, it won't work if it's nested inside a component with an ontap
May 26 00:04:50 <fxspec06> but it works fine if it's not in a list
May 26 00:05:44 <invalidopcode-TP> ah hm... okay
May 26 00:06:25 <invalidopcode-TP> is it Enyo 1 or 2?
May 26 00:06:31 <fxspec06> 2
May 26 00:06:52 <invalidopcode-TP> ohh okay... I haven't touched that yet
May 26 00:12:55 <fxspec06> wow, this is really glitchy. it could be my code.
May 26 00:22:36 <fxspec06> now i've managed to get it to glitch every time.
May 26 00:23:52 <fxspec06> okay, this is BAD
May 26 00:32:33 <fxspec06> i fixed it. it was my code.
May 26 00:33:00 <fxspec06> (for the refresh, still having issues w/ the nested tap)
May 26 01:05:09 <madnificent> fxspec06: doesn't the most deeply nested element get the tap first?  if so: return true; should make it stop bubble up (or false, i forget)
May 26 01:05:27 <fxspec06> that's what i'd thought
May 26 01:05:31 <fxspec06> but
May 26 01:05:32 <madnificent> i used to know, but enyo mixed them around, so now i don't know anymore
May 26 01:05:43 <fxspec06> in this case it just flat out doesn't get recognize
May 26 01:05:51 <fxspec06> it only happens in the List
May 26 01:06:10 <madnificent> have you written ontap right? :)
May 26 01:06:19 <fxspec06> i have a workaround
May 26 01:06:23 <fxspec06> yeah it's ontap
May 26 01:06:28 <fxspec06> i have an idea.
May 26 01:06:37 * fxspec06 and it just might work
May 26 01:10:44 <fxspec06> on damn. forget all of it, it works fine
May 26 01:19:51 <fxspec06> list has a selection property i think
May 26 01:19:54 <fxspec06> by default
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 26 02:59:57 2012