**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 20 03:00:01 2017 Aug 20 16:04:44 Good Morning. Aug 20 16:04:52 The meeting starts in an hour. Aug 20 16:09:04 Information, including an agenda can be found here: http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up.html Aug 20 16:30:45 30 minutes to go. Information: http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up.html Aug 20 16:55:28 5 mins. Aug 20 16:56:38 Here's the thread again: http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up.html Aug 20 16:56:53 I trust you are all composing your introductions! ;) Aug 20 17:00:51 OK. Let's begin. Aug 20 17:01:14 I'm the self appointed chair person for this one. Aug 20 17:01:20 I'm Preemptive (UK). No coding skills to speak of. Aside from LuneOS release announcements, I'm now basically the sole content editor and writer of pivotCE (Pattyland does all the tech stuff). In trying to find information about webOS, I've collected and organised information on a few forum threads which people seem to find useful. I have a Pre2, Pre3 & TP. Aug 20 17:01:23 Good day Aug 20 17:01:47 morning Aug 20 17:01:54 Intro: 50yo former software worker, left sector in 2003, dabbler in enyo2.7, loopback, mysql, mysqljs. Only phone: frankenpre2. Aug 20 17:01:56 morning! Aug 20 17:02:39 I'm not quite sure how we will organise this without 'speaking' over each other, but... Aug 20 17:02:48 Intro: Day job is as an infrastructure consultant/engineer, VMware/Windows/Linux mainly, based in the UK. Do a lot of script work, automation & also have some non-commercial experience in HTML & JavaScript. Written a couple of Mojo/Enyo apps just for my own use. Currently helping support the WebOS/LuneOS infrastructure. Up until a week or so ago my daily was my Pre3! Working on bringing it back to life Aug 20 17:02:48 . Plus a couple of TPs Aug 20 17:02:50 i'm pre3 and TP owner, have some experience in C/C++/qml Aug 20 17:02:51 Thanks bbito Aug 20 17:02:57 I'm a webOS user with a Pre3. I have enough webOS knowledge to keep the Pre3 going. I've never owned a touchpad. Missed the firesale! :( I also know a little -- emphasis on 'little' -- html, css, and javascript, and can get a simple webOS app packaged with Jason Robitaille's ipk packager. Aug 20 17:03:10 Intro: Fiddler, not that good at coding but can read, tweak and follow instructions :P Mainly busy on LuneOS nowadays but also still have Pre3 and TP for daily drivers. Can do HTML, JS, QML and regular other bits. Aug 20 17:03:11 Thanks novaldex Aug 20 17:03:28 Thanks nizovn Aug 20 17:03:35 Thanks Shuswap Aug 20 17:03:39 Thanks Herrie Aug 20 17:04:16 Is that everyone? Aug 20 17:05:02 II expect mariq still not sure who else Aug 20 17:05:03 Misj: Are you here? I saw connection issues... Aug 20 17:05:11 Hay Aug 20 17:05:15 OK Aug 20 17:05:19 yes, I'm here. Had to restart my computer :D Aug 20 17:05:51 OK, a good number - not too many! ;) Aug 20 17:05:53 I got a ton of TP wifi, a 4G TP and some Go's laying around :P Aug 20 17:06:14 Pre 3 as daily driver, but should setup a Veer again really. Aug 20 17:06:31 intro: Pre3 User, Touchpad B&W User, Wife is a Touchpad with Android user (Had other plans but got a the Panda). I work in IT as a developer but have very little web development experience Aug 20 17:07:15 Item 2 is the statement which is just for context. Disagree or offer corrections if you like. I assume you've all seen it and I will take it as read. It is here: http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up.html#post3450963 Aug 20 17:07:16 Intro: Worked over a decade in science (and scientific-programming); specialized in data-analysis and -visualization (cell biology). Currently work as a web-developer. Experience with JS, Enyo1-2.6, and graphics (CorelDraw, and Affinity Designer among others). And I have a touchpad. No personal phone (but my boss gave me an LG). Aug 20 17:08:23 Shall we move to item 3? The aims and organisation of a webOS user group. I posted some suggestions. Doesa any one have any thoughts? Aug 20 17:08:57 I think it would be good to have 1 click doctors for people coming back to webOS Aug 20 17:09:24 Just currently it's quite some hassle to get things working and people get lost/demotivated Aug 20 17:09:38 Herrie|Pre3: Hear Hear - meta-doctors that are pre-pathced Aug 20 17:09:45 I agree. I reinstalled my TP recently. And while it's not that much of a hassle, you keep having to check whether you hit every checkbox. Aug 20 17:09:55 I'm thinking more generally about some kind of 'charter' or 'list of aims Aug 20 17:10:25 http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up.html#post3450964 Aug 20 17:11:29 Preemptive: Sign me up, looks good already Aug 20 17:11:53 I like your proposed list of aims, Preemptive Aug 20 17:12:22 well...the risk of having a centralized 'bug-fix'-group is that it might hamper some ad-hock solutions...at least in theory. Aug 20 17:12:23 but you could add 'kill synergybot' Aug 20 17:12:44 OK. If there are no comments, we can leave it as is for now. Yes, synergy bot is annoying me... Aug 20 17:14:02 Well we have people who still have access to Internals for example so we can submit missing patches Aug 20 17:14:16 I was wondering if we should come up with a simple set of organisational rules for the group, but it seems a bit soon for that. Aug 20 17:14:40 So item 4 is An updated guide to setting up webOS devices. Aug 20 17:15:17 i'm all in favour of 'idiots guides', it's the way I write my documentation Aug 20 17:15:37 This is sort of 'my thing' because I could actually do something about it. I think the issue it would address would be to supply (at forst) a simple sey up guide for users Aug 20 17:15:52 I think Preemptive / PivotCE has been fantastic on providing guides! Aug 20 17:16:27 I agree! I would ask though, is PivotCE the right place? or should it be on the wiki? Aug 20 17:16:41 It seems it is 'all there' Aug 20 17:17:10 i've found missing pages on the wiki, but fortunately the web archive still has other pages Aug 20 17:17:25 (WebOS Rsync page is an example) Aug 20 17:17:28 Do we have anyone today involved with meta-doctor scripting? Aug 20 17:17:31 Thanks, but stuff tends to get lost on the forum. Essentially, I think WN is good for discussion, pivotCE could offer user guides and Internals hold the technical, developer stuff. Does that make sense? Aug 20 17:18:15 well...you do want to keep the news and the guides separated of pivotCE...both are relevant Aug 20 17:18:17 Preemptive: Good separation, sounds appropriate Aug 20 17:18:37 I did some Meta Doctors. I have ALL webOS Doctors that were out there incl. Go and Veer 2.2.3/2.2.4 and even 2.2.5 for some Pre3 I guess Aug 20 17:18:49 I did make a start, but it would be a lot to do and I'm not expert at the technical stuff. https://pivotce.com/guide/ Aug 20 17:18:52 Wiki of Internals might need some fixing Aug 20 17:19:21 Yes, I think one project should be fixing the wiki Aug 20 17:19:48 who owns the wiki? officially? Aug 20 17:20:04 All info should be @ Internals I think just links got broken Aug 20 17:20:09 novaldex: You :P Aug 20 17:20:10 Isn't it webOS Ports now? Aug 20 17:20:14 I would sign on some time towards wiki fix Aug 20 17:20:30 bbito: Noted! Aug 20 17:20:31 Internals is what ka6sox should be able to help with Aug 20 17:20:41 Herrie|Pre3: drat.. was hoping that wasn't the case.. was there an official group of maintainers of content? Aug 20 17:20:44 But should be on same server "farm" as ports Aug 20 17:21:10 If you hover over "Guide" on the front page of pivotCE, you get a drop down list, but it's not obvious that you have to click on "Guide" to actually get the guide. Aug 20 17:21:13 Is there actually a functional Internals team now? Aug 20 17:21:16 I guess I represent the guys that look after the underlying servers Aug 20 17:21:43 but i'm the junior guy in comparison Aug 20 17:21:45 ka6sox and myself together with novaldex Aug 20 17:22:10 I recall doing a bit of fixing myself, but I don't know much about wikis - lots of reading and the fixes weren't perfect. Aug 20 17:22:11 Are what you could consider Internals I guess Aug 20 17:22:21 But I can follow instructions! ;) Aug 20 17:22:52 Yes, the pivotCE guide is very rough - mostly just the contents page Aug 20 17:23:12 maybe we should start with a review of what we do have, what's missing & then what needs updating Aug 20 17:23:25 without actually deciding on the content of the updates? Aug 20 17:23:56 I think the first job is to fix what's there so the links aren't broken Aug 20 17:24:29 easy fixes are, obviously, easy Aug 20 17:24:39 but if target content is missing, that's trickier Aug 20 17:24:39 It's possible to find stuff via 'special pages', but a lot of links posted on WN are broken Aug 20 17:25:13 I suspect it's all actually there, but can't say for sure. Aug 20 17:25:14 For anyone else using webchat.freenode.net you can click on the hamburger menu > options > and tick "Hide JOINS/PARTS/QUITS" to end the synergybot quits and joins. Aug 20 17:25:43 Preemptive: i'd like to think so too Aug 20 17:25:58 Shuswap: THANK YOU Aug 20 17:26:04 ;) Aug 20 17:27:25 git.webos-internals.org has gone for a long time, so maybe some sources of preware apps are lost.. would be nice to recover it too Aug 20 17:27:26 Shall we agree that Novaldex shall investigate what needs to be fixed and that bbito & I are willing to follow his instructions? Bbito: Do you now anything about wikis? Aug 20 17:28:07 I think the wiki fix is something generic that's somewhere in the wiki options/setup Aug 20 17:28:13 I.e. how it generates urls Aug 20 17:28:16 Preemptive: I admin a dokuwiki serving my small business Aug 20 17:28:30 happy to look into it, but i'd like a bit of focused direction or a priority list to work with Aug 20 17:28:34 I assumed it was some update in the wiki code Aug 20 17:28:40 bbito: we're using MediaWiki Aug 20 17:29:41 novaldex: not familiar, but can learn Aug 20 17:29:49 My suggestion for priority would be 1. Find and fix what ever is breaking the links, 2. Fix any pages that need it, 3. Possibly add content. Aug 20 17:30:06 i've picked it up fairly quickly, don't think you'll have too much trouble! Aug 20 17:30:45 Shall we call that a plan? 3 people, short to do list? Aug 20 17:30:47 could do with a web scraper, might give me something to do while I wrap up this bit of consultancy over the next 2 weeks Aug 20 17:30:56 works for me Aug 20 17:31:16 question: are we to adopt the standard LuneOS practice on timelines? Aug 20 17:31:53 Which is? Aug 20 17:31:55 Preemptive: happy to put in time, but vacation starts tomorrow, back Sept.5 Aug 20 17:31:55 what is the 'standard LuneOS practice on timelines'? Aug 20 17:33:19 i guess http://www.webos-ports.org/wiki/ETA Aug 20 17:33:19 the public-facing statement is that there is no timeline.... Aug 20 17:34:21 Ah! ha ha! Yes. I doubt we could do hard deadlines, even privately & there's no point in making public promises! Aug 20 17:34:32 So my basic idea for a guide is essentially an update of the '2014' guide on pivotCE Aug 20 17:34:47 With back up included Aug 20 17:35:11 Back up, Bypass, set up Aug 20 17:35:21 Simple for newbies Aug 20 17:35:28 (and me) Aug 20 17:36:00 Herrie|Pre3: Re: meta-doctor, can the scripts enable a directory of ipks to be pre-installed? Aug 20 17:36:03 does that than also include guides to obtaining apps? Aug 20 17:36:08 (and how to install them) Aug 20 17:36:10 Is anyone good at setting up devices and willing to help me write this stuff up? Aug 20 17:36:19 Misj: Yes Aug 20 17:36:40 bbito: You can install custom ipk's in the script Aug 20 17:36:44 Not sure 1:1 or folder Aug 20 17:36:46 Preemptive: i'm probably about to have to do a clean build in the next couple of weeks if we could do with a test case Aug 20 17:36:48 Misj: But that bit is fairly easy once Preware is installed Aug 20 17:36:50 Preemptive: once you get the wiki sorted, I can help with writing documentation. I have done a fair bit of that on CrackBerry and did that Android thing for pivotCE. My timeline policy will have to be 'the usual' though. School's starting again soon. Aug 20 17:37:56 I think expanding the capabilites of meta-doctor scripts could reduce setup documentation significantly Aug 20 17:38:06 Some kinds of store is needed (with screenshots) although a lot of ipks won be (kinda) legal Aug 20 17:38:16 Shuswap: That's fine. I think we should set targets / deadlines between ourselves, but things often slide... Aug 20 17:38:39 JVLebbink: I agree. An FTP list is not always as useful Aug 20 17:39:33 I agree that meta-doctors would solve a lot, but it's been a while, and they aren't out there as far as I know - it's a bit of an expert job and the developers are mainly doing LuneOS... Aug 20 17:40:49 There is just no reason not to have openssl, c+dav, preware, etc, etc installed by a doctor scriptt Aug 20 17:40:50 Herrie: If I remember correctly, you downloaded all the store's metadata (app description, screenshots?)? Aug 20 17:41:03 bbito: I agree Aug 20 17:41:05 I mean if there are people here who think that a 'pre-bypassed' + Preware meta-doctor is feasible and are willling to do it, then that's great, but I'm not sure if that's going to happen. Aug 20 17:41:11 would a post-install script be a better short term approach that could later be folder into a doctor or used for LuneOS? Aug 20 17:41:16 Misj: Yeah have all in json Aug 20 17:41:31 I pulled EVERYTHING I could from catalog Aug 20 17:41:54 I think we should just distribute a doctor and don't care about copyright for a change Aug 20 17:42:06 Since it's anyway abandonware :P Aug 20 17:42:08 Also the back up issue will not be addressed. Aug 20 17:42:09 i'm thinking that then it becomes an all in one, rather that one per device/version Aug 20 17:42:37 Latest Dr for each device updated with patches Aug 20 17:43:17 do we have access to enough devices between us? Aug 20 17:43:25 As it stands, I have meta-doctored well over a dozen times and I still need to review long checklists everytime and go on vacation to find I forgot someting... Aug 20 17:45:13 novaldex: Sprint Pre-, EU Pre2, ATT Pre2, VZW Pre2, ATT Pre3, VZW Pre3, wifiTP Aug 20 17:45:32 bbito: I think that might be a yes! thanks.. Aug 20 17:45:48 I confess ignorance here. Can a meta-doctor also take care of that 'application database is almost full' issue? Or does it deal with partitioning at all? That caught me at the least convenient possible time last year. Aug 20 17:46:16 It fixes it by deleting it :) Aug 20 17:47:06 maybe that should read ;) Aug 20 17:47:11 :P Aug 20 17:47:22 I'm actually a bit surprised by the speed here! The subject is a user guide, but if a guide can be simplified by simplifying installation... Aug 20 17:47:37 Well we can make a universal doctor for each device Aug 20 17:47:48 Preemptive: That's my hope Aug 20 17:48:42 This is the mythical 'service pack' discussed over the years... Aug 20 17:48:45 Is anyone interesting in helping on a guide to Backup, installation and set up? If not, I'll park it and move on / continue discussing meta-doctors Aug 20 17:49:27 I think it's best to just continue. Especially since this is a bit of an introductionary meeting Aug 20 17:49:48 Preemptive: they're closely related subjects - depends on how much we can jam into super-doctor as to how much documentation is needed beyond it Aug 20 17:49:54 Just separate for gsm & cdma Aug 20 17:50:19 OK. Yes. So this kind of comes under item 5: The top five problems that the community might be able to fix. (i.e. nothing involving service providers with proprietary APIs) Aug 20 17:50:23 Herrie|Pre3, Preemptive: I like the idea of an easy universal doctor, but we should also record how it actually works for future reference too Aug 20 17:51:05 This was intended as a way to consider & prioritise things we could do Aug 20 17:51:16 novaldex: I expect the scripts would be on github for all to see Aug 20 17:51:33 My list: http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up.html#post3450965 Aug 20 17:51:54 I guess a meta doctor (and / or guide) would cover number two Aug 20 17:52:06 bbito: I agree, I just like to remind people as there's many i've dealt with over the years that keep such knowledge 'in their head' & then leave with it Aug 20 17:52:20 But you may have different ideas or priorities Aug 20 17:52:21 not that i'd expect such to happen here! Aug 20 17:52:26 I wholeheartedly agree with #1. The browser is still usable, but far from perfect. And ES6 (javascript 6) doesn't help there either. Aug 20 17:52:58 Misj: There may be developments...? I'm hoping! Aug 20 17:53:20 there may be. But we haven't seen any prototype yet Aug 20 17:53:31 so for now I'm following the rule: see first, believe second. Aug 20 17:53:31 Sounds interesting Aug 20 17:53:43 You can improve browser function fairly dramatically by adding https://googleweblight.com/?lite_url= before any URL. Aug 20 17:53:58 i' working on new browser, have it lanching... Aug 20 17:54:05 but it's very slow Aug 20 17:54:11 nivozn: Sounds great! Aug 20 17:54:21 based on qtwebengine 5.9 Aug 20 17:54:22 I still find browser fairly usable since I keep javascript OFF, I don't think legacy hardware and RAM would really support the ridiculous amount of JS folks use these days... Aug 20 17:54:31 Shuswap: I might need a browser-patch-button for that one ;) Aug 20 17:54:49 Shuswap: That's new to me. I wonder if that could be made into a patch? Aug 20 17:55:28 bbito: yes, frameworks like Angular are ridiculously heavy Aug 20 17:55:45 nizovn: Is there any support we can offer? Or is it best to leave you to it? Aug 20 17:56:06 Preemtive: you should be able to create a patch where on a click of a button the current URL is changed. Aug 20 17:56:15 Also, it works best with javascript on. I usually have it off, but with optimizer works better with it. Aug 20 17:56:21 Preemtive: shouldn't be too dificult Aug 20 17:56:50 OK, I'll note that as a possible thing. Are you saying you can do it? Aug 20 17:57:16 Can we add that to the link menu? then we have the option to open a new URL either way? Aug 20 17:57:24 Preemptive: it's mainly packaging and configuration only left, i can do it myself faster Aug 20 17:57:33 I've never used this particular site, so I'd have to check some of its workings. But the patch itself shouldn't be to difficult (for me). Aug 20 17:57:51 Misj: Thanks. I'll make a note Aug 20 17:58:35 nizovn: OK. Thanks. Obviously, I won't make much noise about this until it happens. Aug 20 17:58:38 first version would be a simple proof-of-concept...then we'll see how useful it is. Aug 20 17:59:17 nizovn: I guess this would be TP only due to ram? Aug 20 17:59:18 (but it's no replacement for a fullfledged updated browser) Aug 20 17:59:26 Or you see this working for phones too? Aug 20 17:59:33 Herrie|Pre3: yup, TP only for now Aug 20 17:59:40 I think ram might be issue for phones Aug 20 17:59:47 nizovn: will this be based on QT? - and the LuneOS browser? Aug 20 18:00:39 Well, the patch may help phones and a new browser for the TP, so hopefully a bit of good news all round. Aug 20 18:01:33 yes, it's based on qt, but not on luneos browser - it needs much work to separate luneos only things.. Aug 20 18:01:40 Misj: ^ Aug 20 18:01:45 Is anyone offering to do the meta-doctoring stuff? I was actually a bit surprised that this came up! Aug 20 18:02:34 Preemptive: I've tried to grok, but I'm a bit lost, would be happy to help if I can, but cannot lead Aug 20 18:02:49 I can help with meta-dr Aug 20 18:03:21 OK, so that's a two person team! Aug 20 18:03:55 I've done some quick tests with the googleweblight.com but all I get is a white screen. both on my desktop and my touchpad. Aug 20 18:04:03 I'll have to look into this a bit more. Aug 20 18:04:10 (tested with three URLS) Aug 20 18:04:11 What are the chances of fixing the Internals Patch portal? Aug 20 18:04:31 I think it was a php thing that got hacked? Aug 20 18:04:59 ah...server responded with a 400 error in the console... Aug 20 18:05:31 My second thought on that is the WN app gallery - I don't no who or when that might be repaired... Aug 20 18:05:38 try https://googleweblight.com/?lite_url=http://www.theverge.com Aug 20 18:05:46 Preemptive: I think volume of changes is so low that it could be a manually managed feed if someone can commit time Aug 20 18:05:53 Preemptive: not certain what the issue is with the patch portal, but given some pointers i'm probably the one with access to the backend Aug 20 18:05:59 Shuswap: yep, that one is working. Aug 20 18:06:14 I didn't write the http so that might be the rpoblem Aug 20 18:06:18 good to know Aug 20 18:06:51 Misj: yes, it needs the http. I didn't make that clear. Aug 20 18:07:00 Shuswap: :D Aug 20 18:07:01 novaldex: I guess we have to decide if a fix is worth the effort or take bbito's suggestion and arrange for the ocassional manual update Aug 20 18:07:19 I always spell occasional wrong... Aug 20 18:07:27 Preemptive: on a similar note, do we want to actively maintain two lists of apps? Aug 20 18:07:48 novaldex: what 2? Aug 20 18:07:48 novaldex: What two lists? Aug 20 18:08:10 I thought the was one in WN & another on PivotCE Aug 20 18:08:22 *there Aug 20 18:08:50 Oh...by the way: I remember writing a patch twice (but one didn't result in a functional patch, for some reason...couldn't figure out why because the other did work). But manuals on that were also quite difficult to find. Aug 20 18:09:09 So that is also appreciated in the updated wiki ;) Aug 20 18:11:09 I believe pivotCE hosts a minimal number of apps, although the problem with submitting to the gallery may be changing that. The thing is that WN is a commercial enterprise and pivotCE is funded bt donation, so our costs rise with the more space we use. The http://preware.pivotce.com list is an index of all the feeds Aug 20 18:12:22 It used to be that you could access the Palm App Cat. via the web and this is kind of an answer to that. Aug 20 18:13:17 also...as we shortly discussed above: we have the abandonware list... Aug 20 18:13:35 Preemptive: I was more thinking about duplication of work, and trying to minimize it Aug 20 18:13:41 So I'm not the technical one on pivotCE, but our listing is of everything available to Preware Aug 20 18:14:43 novaldex: Can you be more specific? Aug 20 18:15:21 I'd say the majority of apps are on WN. They have plenty of space. Aug 20 18:15:26 mostly thinking that we should select one list to be the one we focus on, update where necessary & consistently refer to Aug 20 18:15:58 particularly if our instructions are to say 'get such and such an app/patch', then we refer to a common place overall Aug 20 18:16:05 not trying to tread on anyone's toes Aug 20 18:17:20 and probably doing some of my thinking out loud too.. Aug 20 18:18:29 I guess it's not a major issue, but anyone who fixes an app or submits a new one is complaining about getting it on the app gallery. I think downloading from there is now broken too. If you are saying we should always point at the pivotCE index, then that should be fine, I'm just concerned about the potential costs of hosting the apps themselves - maybe I don't need to be... I can check with Pattyland Aug 20 18:18:30 As long as there's a backup I prefer to have a single source to maintain. Aug 20 18:19:39 Yes, but WN has thousands of apps and we have a handfull... Aug 20 18:19:50 Misj: if the internals patch feed is rehabilitated, should everything go to that server? Aug 20 18:20:57 btw, it doens't bother me one bit that there are multiple feeds Aug 20 18:21:05 I think the feed might be OK. Isn't it submissions or indexing of the repo that's the problems? Aug 20 18:21:12 bbito: I dunno... ;) -- I just think that the multiple feeds is a good strategy to ensure that you don't bet on a single horse...but a much worse stategy to maintain with a small group. Aug 20 18:22:31 i've certainly provoked a discussion! Aug 20 18:22:55 Have we had more than 4 new apps in the last 2 years? Aug 20 18:23:04 is there anything that says we need to host the actual ipks? long as there's a link & reference to them? Aug 20 18:25:03 In theory, we could D/L everything from WN app gallery and host it elsewhere. The question i think is that if WN can't be updated... maybe this is a bigger question in the long term. I'm thinking an app store for LuneOS, but that's not really an area for this group Aug 20 18:26:07 I guess we should eventually migate WN to PivotCE feed Aug 20 18:26:11 We've been going for 1.5 hours. Do you want to wrap up? Or carry on for a bit? I think we've accomplished more than I expected. Aug 20 18:26:13 PivotCE feed is in our control Aug 20 18:26:26 Sorry had a little baby on my arm for the last 20-30 mins :P Aug 20 18:28:02 Excited for 'Super-Dr' and wiki cleanup! Aug 20 18:28:08 There are two things I've been thinking about. Aug 20 18:28:21 1. updating the location service. Aug 20 18:28:30 2. enyo/mojo documentation. Aug 20 18:28:32 My point is that WN have kind of forgotten about us and our biggest store is there - broken, but usable. I don't know about the servers at webOS Ports (and funding), but pivotCE is donation funded and would have to think about becoming the main repository Aug 20 18:28:56 ad 1. I've been playing with this, but then I got a new job, and forgot about it :| Aug 20 18:29:04 ...especially as a future LuneOS repo Aug 20 18:29:33 Misj: I wish I'd scraped mojo/enyo docs, miss them! Aug 20 18:29:37 (I have a key for the mozilla geolocation and their permission to use it for a patch...but I never got around to it). Aug 20 18:29:45 I think overall we've covered much more that we could have hoped, plus touched on some other subjects suitable for future discussion Aug 20 18:29:50 bbito: http://www.banneret.nl/webos/documentation/ Aug 20 18:29:52 Misj: what do you mean by "updating"? Aug 20 18:30:14 nizovn: the location service on the touchpad doesn't work anymore since Google changed their API Aug 20 18:30:25 bbito: most should be there... Aug 20 18:30:55 seems I'm late Aug 20 18:31:00 I have the book on mojo i think or maybe Enyo. Aug 20 18:31:15 re: apps, perhaps a hybrid solution whereby we have a copy/alternative link elsewhere for those apps/patches that we consider 'core'? Aug 20 18:31:17 Misj: you need location service only for maps? Aug 20 18:31:26 Misj: Awesome, Thanks Aug 20 18:31:28 mazzinia: There'll be a log... Aug 20 18:31:28 Misj: i mean maps app Aug 20 18:31:33 then we'll know we've got it & it's accessible Aug 20 18:31:36 nizovn: well, I used it for a couple of apps. But yes, also for maps. Aug 20 18:32:07 maxxinia: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos.txt Aug 20 18:32:20 If anyone is still around, I finally am able to join - hi everyone... Aug 20 18:32:29 mazzinia: See above Aug 20 18:32:31 nizovn: patching a single app should be possible (created a prototype for that). patching all apps requires updating the service Aug 20 18:32:45 Misj: ok Aug 20 18:32:47 marig: Morning! Aug 20 18:33:02 no need, I was logged since before the meeting started. I read practically everything of the last hour ( until the client here decided to kick me out 4 minutes ago, at least ) Aug 20 18:33:38 OK. Location service is a good one if it can be fixed. Aug 20 18:33:41 nizovn: but there are a few things needed, like a list of all wifi networks nearby. and a https call to a geolocation service (so a network connection) Aug 20 18:33:53 cannot the location service of luneos be adapted ? Aug 20 18:34:49 (I'm just thinking out loud here) Aug 20 18:35:31 luneos location service uses dbus, i'm not sure about it's working state in webos Aug 20 18:35:53 but org.webosinternals.dbus exists Aug 20 18:36:00 you don't need a list of all the wifi. it's supposed your are already connected to a wifi network or to a data feed ( phone service ) Aug 20 18:36:20 so the real question is just to change the geolocation service Aug 20 18:36:59 how is the thing working in webos ? is it entirely a script, that we can tweak ? Aug 20 18:37:10 or is a compiled piece of code ? Aug 20 18:37:16 Misj: thanks for the documentation link Aug 20 18:37:37 It's compiled code from what I recall Aug 20 18:37:41 I checked it sometime in the past Aug 20 18:38:04 mmm chances that's part of the code they had to release ? Aug 20 18:38:17 mazzinia: well, both Google's and Mozilla's location services use a list of wifi-ssid's. Aug 20 18:38:21 Misj: Yes, thanks. I shall note that link. Aug 20 18:38:33 Misj: no, they released only dummy js package Aug 20 18:39:06 mmm Aug 20 18:39:15 I didn't organize that link. Just made a backup back in the day and put it online as-is. Aug 20 18:39:37 The google one is a lot more accurate for me compared to mozilla Aug 20 18:39:58 it's mostly as a reference for myself (well, on my harddrive, and put it online a few minutes before this meeting). Aug 20 18:40:08 mmmm since thinking out loud is popular, i'm going to say something quite weird Aug 20 18:40:44 they are both equally accurate when they have the same area mapped. But Google has more mapped since Mozilla is a community mapping rather than a google-maps-car-scanner-mapping Aug 20 18:40:54 (that sentence was in terrible English, but you get my point). Aug 20 18:41:04 what if... by hosts the call to the location api (google ) is redirected to a dummy on the phone, the dummy is a small service that converts the old api to the new and redirects the call Aug 20 18:41:14 (phone /tablet) Aug 20 18:41:35 and then the dummy handles the response Aug 20 18:41:45 and passes it back to the original service Aug 20 18:41:53 I don't know how the current location service works exactly...my guess is the biggest difference is that it used to go over http and now requires https Aug 20 18:42:06 (location services now by definition require https) Aug 20 18:44:31 yes , but if we have the old api docs ( google api ) we automatically know what it was done Aug 20 18:44:38 and what it was passed in/out Aug 20 18:45:08 once we find the differences, the converting service would just have to tweak the out, and the in Aug 20 18:45:21 Gotta go soon, Thanks to Preemptive for organizing and all for contributing Aug 20 18:45:43 true, but if the only change is https as a required protocol, and Palm was still using http...then the API in/out hasn't changed just the way we make the call. Aug 20 18:45:51 And that might be compiled Aug 20 18:46:11 yes, and we could hex edit one binary if we are lucky Aug 20 18:46:13 (I mean: might be a compiled service) Aug 20 18:46:31 but depends if there's "free" space to add a letter without overwriting something Aug 20 18:46:43 still is worth to try, could take just 5 minutes Aug 20 18:47:10 could you give that a try? Aug 20 18:47:11 Legacy documentation might still be available on archive.org. Aug 20 18:47:18 I reached out to the original dev of location services after it broke. Some of my findings here: https://bpaste.net/show/37a589dc3877 Aug 20 18:48:17 Should give some pointers Aug 20 18:48:22 Ok Everybody, i think we should start to wrap it up, I've been trying to summarise, but I think I'll do it after and post to the thread. Aug 20 18:49:02 I assume we don't want to bother electing officers or anything formal as yet, but we can if you want. Aug 20 18:49:05 also, from OpenWebos: Aug 20 18:49:06 [D-BUS Service] Aug 20 18:49:06 Name=com.palm.location Aug 20 18:49:06 Exec=/usr/bin/run-js-service -n /usr/palm/services/com.palm.location Aug 20 18:49:13 might help find the right file :) Aug 20 18:49:31 Thanks for organizing this Preemptive. Much appreciated. Aug 20 18:50:00 Thanks everybody! Aug 20 18:50:04 Preemptive: perhaps not as official as officers, but contacts for particular areas? Aug 20 18:50:29 you've done a great job of arranging all this, well done & thanks! Aug 20 18:50:47 We can jump to the date of the next meeting. Does anyone have a suggestion? My default would be same time next month, but we could tweak the time or do this more frequently to start Aug 20 18:51:16 3rd Sunday of the month? Aug 20 18:51:48 September 17th? Aug 20 18:51:50 This timeslot works well for me. Aug 20 18:51:54 Same time? Aug 20 18:52:17 will you make another notification on webOSNation? - or else I'm sure to forget :D Aug 20 18:52:35 (of course I could also put it in my agenda...) Aug 20 18:52:39 ...or Twitter Aug 20 18:52:41 I reckon the timeslot works well, gives good coverage across many timezones Aug 20 18:53:11 marig: I don't Twitter. Or Facebook. Or anyting else social. That's why I have webOS ;) Aug 20 18:53:31 how shall we stay in touch with updates in the meantime? Aug 20 18:53:36 Preemtive: I agree with the timeslot Aug 20 18:53:41 eg. once links are being fixed, etc? Aug 20 18:53:45 Misj: Huh - I do Twitter and Facebook ONLY on webOS! :-) Aug 20 18:53:50 I'll post the link to the log of this and a summary of the plan and who is doing what. We can report & discuss further there , though there's no reason why people can't use this channed for further discussion outside of the formal meeting. Aug 20 18:55:09 novaldex: Yes, we will obviously have to contact each other to co-ordinate. preemptive@gmx.com Aug 20 18:55:54 So I think we are saying 17th September, 1700 GMT / UTC. Does that work for everybody? Aug 20 18:56:56 I'll write it down. Aug 20 18:57:14 Good night Aug 20 18:57:20 Yes. It's in my calendar already. Aug 20 18:58:29 mine too Aug 20 18:58:59 ok Aug 20 18:59:55 Ok... I think that's it! Thanks everyone for your presence. This was much more productive than I expected! See you on the forum until the 17th! Aug 20 19:01:45 till next time Aug 20 19:02:05 thanks all.. Aug 20 19:03:10 I'm now ignoring Synergy bot - maybe that will work! ;) Aug 20 19:03:20 nope! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 21 03:00:01 2017