**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 23 02:59:57 2019
Jun 23 17:03:56 <Herrie> I'm here for a change
Jun 23 17:04:14 <elvispre> :) Hi Herrie
Jun 23 17:16:37 <Preemptive> oops! Sorry. Running a bit late
Jun 23 17:16:54 <Preemptive> Give me a few seconds...
Jun 23 17:16:56 <nizovn> hi
Jun 23 17:17:15 <Herrie> No worries ;)
Jun 23 17:17:36 <Preemptive> Here is the link to the agenda: https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up-10.html#post3455719
Jun 23 17:18:19 <Preemptive> morning.
Jun 23 17:18:21 <Preemptive> 1. Attendees & Introductions of new attendees.
Jun 23 17:18:44 <elvispre> Hello.
Jun 23 17:18:52 <Preemptive> I guess about 4 or 5 of us?
Jun 23 17:21:06 <Preemptive> 2. Any proposed updates to the aims or rules of the group.
Jun 23 17:21:24 <Preemptive> No...?
Jun 23 17:21:35 <Preemptive> 3. Possible selection of officers or area contacts.
Jun 23 17:21:52 <Preemptive> Skip..?
Jun 23 17:22:14 <Preemptive> 4. Progress reports.
Jun 23 17:22:44 <Preemptive> 4.1. Priority Project: Upgrading TLS to at least 1.2. (dkirker) https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-discussion-lounge/332279-end-support-tls-1-0-1-1-problem.html
Jun 23 17:23:48 <Preemptive> Now, dkirker reports on the thread that he won't be present, but will be working on this and will possibly have something t report tomorrow.
Jun 23 17:24:29 <Herrie> We'll see, hearing this for quite some time now already :P
Jun 23 17:24:48 <Preemptive> So we'll see what happens. i suppose there's a chance he might drop in.
Jun 23 17:25:59 <Preemptive> Herrie: Yes, but he is a busy guy and I think the only one offering to do this, so it will either happen in it's own good time or not I suppose
Jun 23 17:26:24 <Herrie> True
Jun 23 17:26:36 <Herrie> Anything C++ is over my head usually
Jun 23 17:28:05 <Preemptive> My skill are (basic) BASIC & (basic) HTML, so I can't even... ;-)
Jun 23 17:28:30 <Preemptive> 4.2. Updated meta-doctors. (Herrie, bbito) http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-internals/331796-webos-internals-meta-doctor-2017-a.html#post3451411
Jun 23 17:28:45 <Herrie> That one is on my long to-do list
Jun 23 17:29:05 <Herrie> It's not rocket science, just should put aside a day or 2 at some point
Jun 23 17:29:47 <Preemptive> Herrie: I wonder if there's any way to get bbito unstuck on the makefile stuff? No online tutorials?
Jun 23 17:30:24 <Herrie> Not sure, it's trial & error usually
Jun 23 17:30:57 <Preemptive> Herrie: Turning all the piecemeal fixes into practically a single fix would be a powerful tool.
Jun 23 17:31:40 <Preemptive> I spotted the mention of tab to complete user names in the log and am doing it now!
Jun 23 17:32:19 <Preemptive> Ok. I can move on if there's nothing to really add.
Jun 23 17:32:34 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Are you present?
Jun 23 17:35:33 <Preemptive> 4.3. Updated location service. (Misj, mazzinia) https://forums.webosnation.com/hp-touchpad/330935-bing-google-maps-location-unavailable.html
Jun 23 17:37:14 <Preemptive> I think I'm right in saying that webOS uses Google's IP location system via it's API. The two fold problem is that the
Jun 23 17:37:30 <Preemptive> ...API and terms of use changed
Jun 23 17:38:27 <Preemptive> Fixing the API access was done I think by George Mari when updating the Google maps app of 72ka
Jun 23 17:39:13 <Preemptive> The problem is that Google now limt the number of uses and app can make of the service until it charges on a per-use basis.
Jun 23 17:40:30 <Preemptive> As there is no way to be sure of the number of webOS users and the amount of times there will use the location service, no developer wants to risk having to pay high charges on their free app.
Jun 23 17:41:43 <Preemptive> A work around is if every user registers as a developer and incorporates their own developer key into a version of the app. I doubt an everyday user can do this easily, but maybe it's possible.
Jun 23 17:43:32 <Preemptive> The question is whether there is a central service or if API access is on a per-app basis. The Googlemaps app seems to show that apps can incorporate the API access.
Jun 23 17:44:03 <Preemptive> So does every app need to be patched, or can some access IP location via webOS itself?
Jun 23 17:44:43 <Preemptive> It could be either or both.
Jun 23 17:44:55 <Preemptive> Probably both
Jun 23 17:46:17 <Preemptive> I noticed that the Googlemaps web page works fine via Nizovn's Qt browser. This is a work around for the Google maps app.
Jun 23 17:46:37 <Preemptive> As a Google service, there's no fee.
Jun 23 17:48:26 <Preemptive> So is that good enough? Or should the service be fixed on webOS? If it is fixed, how do we avoid a fee (it's possible requests will be so few that a fee is not incurred, but that's risky
Jun 23 17:49:06 <Preemptive> One suggestion I would make is if there is a way to spoof things as if the google maps webpage is making the request.
Jun 23 17:49:11 <Preemptive> Any thoughts?
Jun 23 17:49:57 <Preemptive> Oh yes, substituting a different service remains an option.
Jun 23 17:58:19 <Herrie> Not really. Google is locking everything free down it seems
Jun 23 18:00:51 <Preemptive> Herrie: What I'm saying is that the web site is free. We might have to be satisfied with that.
Jun 23 18:01:58 <Preemptive> Herrie: What I'm asking is if we can somehow send a request that appears to be from the webpage and maybe take location data from the returned header or something?
Jun 23 18:02:14 <Herrie> Might be possible
Jun 23 18:02:21 <Preemptive> Herrie: Or again, plan B: Some other service.
Jun 23 18:02:25 <Herrie> Sniff Google's requests etc
Jun 23 18:02:37 <Herrie> Maybe even "borrow" their key
Jun 23 18:04:10 <Preemptive> Herrie: Yes, I'm just trying to get to a point where there is either a path to a solution or accept that it can't done and just use googlemaps via the new browsers. Or again, another service.
Jun 23 18:05:20 <Preemptive> Herrie: We are after all, managing decline: Keeping the boat afloat until we are rescued by LuneOS! ;-)
Jun 23 18:08:32 <Herrie> Yes
Jun 23 18:09:02 <Herrie> Well we're working hard on LuneOS. We migrated 50% of all components in OSE already
Jun 23 18:09:54 <Herrie> The really hard ones to follow still and then we can focus on OS improvements. Though OSE brings stuff like text to speech and assistant for example
Jun 23 18:10:06 <Preemptive> Herrie: And I recall you are using Mozilla's location service as Google will now have fees ofr any significant number of users
Jun 23 18:10:14 <Preemptive> *for
Jun 23 18:12:58 <Preemptive> OK, we'll move on then
Jun 23 18:13:09 <Preemptive> 4.4. Fix the webos internals patch feed or manage it manually. (novaldex, Herrie) http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/326893-webosinternals-patch-portal-down.html#post3450982
Jun 23 18:15:34 <Preemptive> Herrie: I think there had been progress here, but I'm not sure of the current status. Is it functional by manual updates, but not yet automatic?
Jun 23 18:16:10 <Preemptive> https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/326893-webosinternals-patch-portal-down-2.html#post3455148
Jun 23 18:18:51 <Herrie> Well there's been a lot of infra work done & still being done
Jun 23 18:19:16 <Herrie> But we can generate feeds in general so could manually merge patches and then create a feed
Jun 23 18:20:35 <Preemptive> Herrie: So would a good next step be to make a list of updates? Like a list of apps & patches posted on the forum?
Jun 23 18:22:04 <Herrie> Yes
Jun 23 18:22:15 <Herrie> If someone could do that legwork that would be useful
Jun 23 18:22:43 <Preemptive> I'm just guessing it's a case of uploading the packages, making a list, then merging th elist into the existing feed... or something!
Jun 23 18:22:49 <Herrie> Last time I tested Preware feeds was when our infra was still on Ubuntu 16.04 back in January
Jun 23 18:23:03 <Herrie> Now it's on 18.04 so will need to do another test
Jun 23 18:23:11 <Herrie> There are probably things that broke
Jun 23 18:23:47 <Preemptive> I'll try to start a list - ideally on the original thread or linked to it
Jun 23 18:26:17 <Preemptive> 4.5. Preservation / Restoration of sources of documentation (including original Palm documents, Open WebOS, git.webos-internals.org & 3rd party sources such as webOS101). (All members in the sub-sections) http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-tips-info-resources/331800-documentation-management-thread-webos-user-group.html
Jun 23 18:26:41 <Preemptive> I don't think anything more has happened here.
Jun 23 18:26:53 <Preemptive> ...moving on...
Jun 23 18:27:23 <Preemptive> 4.6. App Store Specification. (Preemptive + others) https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-apps-games/329621-making-another-app-store.html#post3453768
Jun 23 18:28:17 <Preemptive> Nothing new has happened here, but I did see a comment from someone around the new pinephone prototype board.
Jun 23 18:29:40 <Herrie> Bannernet was quite useful for our OSE migration to see changes between OWO and OSE in terms of specs and API :)
Jun 23 18:29:57 <Preemptive> It was about the various alternative mobile OSes (including LuneOS) that could run on it. The commenter hoped that there was an app store so the system(s) would get some momentuum
Jun 23 18:30:39 <Preemptive> Herrie: You mean appstore API? Interesting...
Jun 23 18:32:28 <Preemptive> Anyway, I have in the past suggested that we could ask those who set up the Rebble.io appstore if we could work jointly to hold webOS apps. An extension of this idea would be to do something similar to the Halium project: A common appstore for all the alternative OSes.
Jun 23 18:33:48 <Herrie> No, just different API such as db8, configurator, ActivityManager etc
Jun 23 18:34:19 <Preemptive> Any device/OS contacting the server would be identified and referred to the appropriate section for that OS and of course any apps that worked on multiple platforms wpuld appear in multiple version of the app store
Jun 23 18:34:42 <Herrie> Technically shouldn't be rocket science
Jun 23 18:39:08 <Preemptive> Yes, I'm just thinking that all the other projects will ultimately need and app store and are already collaborating via Halium. I don't if any stores already exist for plasma or postmarket etc, but if a common base platform can be agreed, effort could be combined and some apps shared, costs reduced, etc.
Jun 23 18:40:30 <Preemptive> *an app store (&) *I don't know if any stores
Jun 23 18:45:43 <Preemptive> OK. I'll post the idea on the thread
Jun 23 18:46:35 <Preemptive> 4.7. webOS Nation App Gallery Submission And Access. (Preemptive) https://forums.webosnation.com/webosnation-com-site-news-feedback-help/332000-app-gallery-issue-reporting-thread.html
Jun 23 18:49:42 <Preemptive> I'm not expecting anything to happen here. I think the last thing was that I messaged Derek Kessler and got no reply. I think this should maybe fold into an app catalog project, with a request made when there is a place to house these apps.
Jun 23 18:54:20 <Preemptive> 5. Discussion of other items.
Jun 23 18:54:51 <Preemptive> 5.1. Device back up options. http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-development/331801-options-automated-device-backup-webos-user-group.html#post3451423
Jun 23 18:55:22 <Preemptive> Nothing new here I'm afraid.
Jun 23 18:55:49 <Preemptive> 5.2. webOS Vulnerabilities and Fixes. https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/331974-vulnerabilities-fixes-legacy-webos.html
Jun 23 18:55:55 <Herrie> Testing protocol for LuneOS has been extended a bit as well
Jun 23 18:56:09 <Preemptive> I'm unaware of any new problems
Jun 23 18:57:02 <Preemptive> Herrie: Oh? OK I didn't spot updates to that thread. That's news that should be useful soon... ;-)
Jun 23 18:57:23 <Herrie> Just we added some more test cases
Jun 23 18:57:27 <Herrie> To the wiki
Jun 23 18:58:01 <Preemptive> Ah, OK. I will update he thread with those.
Jun 23 18:58:01 <Herrie> We're ironing out a few minor issues after Qt and OSE upgrades and we'll be able to put it to use and push out a release
Jun 23 19:01:23 <Preemptive> Good stuff! Moving on...
Jun 23 19:01:31 <Preemptive> 5.2.1. Does the VPN app need an update? https://forums.webosnation.com/open-webos-general-discussion/332302-vpn-hp-webos.html#post3454594
Jun 23 19:02:45 <Preemptive> On this topic, I think we've agreed that VPN relies on the TLS update, so that might be the fix or the app might also need updating after the fix.
Jun 23 19:03:35 <Preemptive> 5.3. LG's webOS Open Source Edition http://forum.webosose.org/
Jun 23 19:06:16 <Preemptive> Any updates this month?
Jun 23 19:06:51 <elvispre> There was a new release this month and there's another in the pipeline, apparently.
Jun 23 19:08:49 <Preemptive> elvispre: Ok, thanks. I'll take a look and update the relevant thread.
Jun 23 19:09:19 <Herrie> Yes there should be some new updates later this week I just read on Skype
Jun 23 19:09:27 <Herrie> Probably Tuesday or Wednesday
Jun 23 19:09:36 <Herrie> Which will be a Yocto update
Jun 23 19:09:49 <Preemptive> Herrie: I'll wait until Friday then!
Jun 23 19:12:14 <Preemptive> 6. Priority Project Selection.
Jun 23 19:12:42 <Preemptive> I assume there's no reason to change this...
Jun 23 19:13:32 <Preemptive> ...
Jun 23 19:14:29 <Preemptive> 7. Any other business.
Jun 23 19:15:43 <Preemptive> I guess not...
Jun 23 19:20:33 <Preemptive> 8. Date of next meeting.
Jun 23 19:21:12 <Preemptive> Possible dates in July are: 7, 14, 21, 28
Jun 23 19:22:55 <Preemptive> I think the 21st looks best for me. Anyone else have a preference?
Jun 23 19:23:43 <bughi1980> hello
Jun 23 19:25:03 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Hi
Jun 23 19:26:40 <bughi1980> was a bit late I guess
Jun 23 19:27:41 <Preemptive> We're just setting the next date
Jun 23 19:31:05 <Preemptive> 21st July?
Jun 23 19:37:43 <Preemptive> Ok, If there's no objection, I'll go for that.
Jun 23 19:38:00 <Preemptive> 21/072019 1700 GMT
Jun 23 19:40:43 <Preemptive> Thanks everybody! See you next month
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 24 02:59:57 2019