**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 08 02:59:57 2019
Sep 08 15:10:03 <Preemptive> In about two hours: https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-users-online-meet-up-post3455987.html#post3455987
Sep 08 17:01:29 <Preemptive> Hi Everybody. Here is the link to the agenda for today: https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up-10.html#post3455987
Sep 08 17:01:54 <nizovn> morning
Sep 08 17:02:24 <Preemptive> As it's roughly two years since we started these online meetings, I've added an item at the end of the discussion section so we can have some kind of review if we want to.
Sep 08 17:02:54 <Preemptive> nizovn: Morning!
Sep 08 17:03:03 <Preemptive> 1. Attendees & Introductions of new attendees.
Sep 08 17:03:14 <Preemptive> Say Hello. If you are new, give a quick webOS-related biography (e.g. user since.., devices, any development history, specific webOS interest (why are you here?)
Sep 08 17:06:16 <Preemptive> Just the two of us then?
Sep 08 17:06:47 <Preemptive> I'll skip the next two items as usual...
Sep 08 17:06:55 <Preemptive> 2. Any proposed updates to the aims or rules of the group.
Sep 08 17:07:03 <Preemptive> 3. Possible selection of officers or area contacts.
Sep 08 17:07:12 <Preemptive> 4. Progress reports.
Sep 08 17:07:23 <Preemptive> 4.1 TLS Fixes & Work-arounds
Sep 08 17:07:35 <Preemptive> 4.1.1 Priority Project: Upgrading TLS to at least 1.2.  (dkirker) https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-discussion-lounge/332279-end-support-tls-1-0-1-1-problem.html
Sep 08 17:08:39 <Preemptive> It seems dkirker is not present.
Sep 08 17:09:22 <Preemptive> He posts to the thread occasionally, so there may be some work in progress and he will perhaps appear later
Sep 08 17:09:35 <Preemptive> 4.1.2 Priority Project: Squid proxy for possible SSL workaround. (Nizovn)
Sep 08 17:09:59 <nizovn> released it few mins ago: https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-apps-games/332506-squid-ssl-bump.html
Sep 08 17:10:49 * Preemptive reads
Sep 08 17:12:55 <Preemptive> Wow! Great work! I didn't realise it would be done already.
Sep 08 17:13:13 <nizovn> thanks :)
Sep 08 17:13:46 <Preemptive> Can you clarify: Do I need to manually install a certificate first (in addition to generating one from the app)
Sep 08 17:14:16 <nizovn> it will install automatically
Sep 08 17:14:32 <Herrie> I'm half here since I'm commuting in the train ;)
Sep 08 17:14:50 <Preemptive> Herrie: Hi!
Sep 08 17:15:33 <Preemptive> So the manual update means deleting the certificate when it expires and generating a fresh one from the app again?
Sep 08 17:15:55 <nizovn> yup
Sep 08 17:18:48 <Preemptive> nizovn: Great.
Sep 08 17:20:19 <Preemptive> So in essense, this creates a certificate, then enables the proxy. To use the proxy, another app such as proxy switch is then used to point webOS at the Squid internal proxy
Sep 08 17:20:48 <nizovn> right
Sep 08 17:23:09 <Preemptive> OK. Well this is fantastic. I guess I'll have to wait until the meeting is over to give it a try. I've been thinking that I should do a pivotCE articles on developments and this is a good reason to do that.
Sep 08 17:23:38 <nizovn> thanks
Sep 08 17:24:28 <Preemptive> If there is anything you want to add, please do so. Otherwise, I'll move on and we can return to discussion at the end when hopefully some more people have appeared and we can all give it a try.
Sep 08 17:26:05 <nizovn> there is a chance squid proxy may also block ads system-wide by dns list, i will look into that
Sep 08 17:26:20 <nizovn> we can move on
Sep 08 17:27:44 <Preemptive> Another useful feature! I use a HOSTS file. http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm I add in the adjustments to reach the old HP/Palm servers
Sep 08 17:28:03 <Herrie> Preemptive: The hosts file works well for add blocking
Sep 08 17:28:22 <Preemptive> 4.2. Updated meta-doctors. (Herrie, bbito) http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-internals/331796-webos-internals-meta-doctor-2017-a.html#post3451411
Sep 08 17:28:39 <Herrie> JayCanuck and others created one previously. I've updated it a while ago (been some years again probbaly), but yes
Sep 08 17:28:41 <Herrie> Meta-doctors: No update really
Sep 08 17:28:41 <Herrie> Need to find time....
Sep 08 17:29:59 <Preemptive> Yes, we're all busy...  keep meaning to read up on makefiles myself, but I doubt I will be of any help.
Sep 08 17:30:25 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Are you here?
Sep 08 17:30:28 <Preemptive> 4.3. Updated location service. (Misj, mazzinia) https://forums.webosnation.com/hp-touchpad/330935-bing-google-maps-location-unavailable.html
Sep 08 17:33:20 <Preemptive> From the July meeting: Therefore the current proposed strategy is: 1. Rename the original service.
Sep 08 17:33:27 <Preemptive> 2. Replace the original service with a new one that queries the renamed original service for GPS data and makes it's own request for wifi location - from a service that replaces the Google one (GLS).
Sep 08 17:33:43 <Preemptive> 3. The current suggested service is Mozilla Location Service (MLS), which is still free, though developer keys are no longer being issued (Unfortunately, MLS is not considered to be as accurate as Google). A further suggestion is to use a plugin system so that various service options can be user-selected.
Sep 08 17:33:51 <Preemptive> 4. Example code can be published so that if an app is making a direct request, interested parties can patch the app, but it is assumed that fixing the service will automatically fix the majority of apps (as long as the returned data is correctly formatted).
Sep 08 17:35:09 <Preemptive> I'll move on if there are no comments...
Sep 08 17:37:21 <Preemptive> 4.4. Fix the webos internals patch feed or manage it manually. (novaldex, Herrie) http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/326893-webosinternals-patch-portal-down.html#post3450982
Sep 08 17:38:34 <Preemptive> I posted some patches to the new thread prior to the 31st July deadline, but missed my own 31st August deadline (v. busy!)
Sep 08 17:39:20 <Preemptive> I'm the only one to post anything on the thread, but there are items that can be manually added to the feed if thet haven't already.
Sep 08 17:39:57 <Preemptive> Preware on my phone shows 262 patches.
Sep 08 17:41:44 <Preemptive> I don't think the new patches have beeen added, but it's again about Herrie finding the time I guess! ;-)
Sep 08 17:41:58 <Preemptive> Herrie: You can't do everything!
Sep 08 17:42:21 <Preemptive> 4.5. Preservation / Restoration of sources of documentation (including original Palm documents, Open WebOS, git.webos-internals.org & 3rd party sources such as webOS101). (All members in the sub-sections)http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-tips-info-resources/331800-documentation-management-thread-webos-user-group.html
Sep 08 17:43:30 <Preemptive> One tiny note here is that I indexed the meeting summaries to the first post to make it easier to follow proceedings https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up.html
Sep 08 17:44:47 <Preemptive> 4.5.1. Documentation policy.
Sep 08 17:45:49 <Preemptive> It might be worth copying the index to some other place like the wiki on webOS-internals. Might slightly help with visibility. I don't know.
Sep 08 17:46:04 <Preemptive> 4.5.2. Find / improve documentation of mojo / enyo. (Misj) http://www.banneret.nl/webos/documentation/
Sep 08 17:46:41 <Preemptive> I'm assuming no developments here, but I think the state of preserved documentation is pretty good at the moment.
Sep 08 17:46:56 <Preemptive> 4.5.3. On device Help System.
Sep 08 17:48:14 <Preemptive> Just a reminder that we have the content of this system, but currently no way to reimplement the functionality - reworking it into a wiki or website may be the simplest option.
Sep 08 17:48:34 <Preemptive> 4.5.4. Old domains associated with webOS. (Preemptive)
Sep 08 17:48:35 <Herrie> Or hosting it somewhere and patching urls
Sep 08 17:49:53 <Herrie> That's for help system
Sep 08 17:50:14 <Preemptive> Herrie: I think the problem is that it was dynamically presented (php?) according to device and system version maybe. It is hosted at Palm.si by Sumy, but it's just the HTML and media.
Sep 08 17:51:41 <Preemptive> So a person could dig through it but it's not easy to locate the correct content. Possibly the app itself structures the data, so a URL patch (HOSTS file again?) might work...?
Sep 08 17:52:39 <bughi1980> I don't think it was dynamic
Sep 08 17:53:03 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Hi.
Sep 08 17:53:04 <bughi1980> ( at least not from the perspective of the device )
Sep 08 17:53:07 <bughi1980> hi
Sep 08 17:53:49 <Preemptive> This item does not have a thread, so perhaps I should make one so we can nail down the issue.
Sep 08 17:54:53 <Preemptive> bughi1980: We can jump back to location services if you have anything.
Sep 08 17:55:04 <bughi1980> I've nothing , sorry :(
Sep 08 17:55:12 <Preemptive> OK.
Sep 08 17:56:13 <Preemptive> Does anyone have anything definitive on how the on-device help app works? If not, I'll maje a thread to look into the matter and move on
Sep 08 17:56:20 <Preemptive> *make
Sep 08 17:57:02 <bughi1980> well.. i do remember how I programmed the grabbing of the help system
Sep 08 17:57:18 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Go on...
Sep 08 17:57:49 <bughi1980> and all those links on the server were prearranged, i think
Sep 08 17:59:00 <bughi1980> and each device has hardcoded paths
Sep 08 17:59:34 <bughi1980> each help page "should" not have any dynamic code inside.. still going by memory
Sep 08 17:59:44 <Preemptive> Hmmm... Palm.si is getting a security warning from Firefox. I went ahead and there seems to be a holding page. I'll email Sumy.
Sep 08 18:00:23 <Preemptive> bughi1980: So you think that if we simply switch to palm.si in the HOSTS file, everything will start working?
Sep 08 18:01:00 <Preemptive> A side benefit would be that we could adapt the system for LuneOS.
Sep 08 18:01:48 <Preemptive> Just modify / update relevant files to make LunbeOS relevant help files and use the same system
Sep 08 18:01:52 <bughi1980> I "think" it may work. but I'm not sure in how many different ways we ripped the help
Sep 08 18:01:57 <Preemptive> *LuneOS
Sep 08 18:03:24 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Do you have an archive of this? As long as the files are in a matching structure, it might be a simple fix.
Sep 08 18:04:13 <bughi1980> yes I do have somewhere the archive at least of my rip
Sep 08 18:04:26 <bughi1980> this is an example of the root index.json
Sep 08 18:04:28 <bughi1980> 	{
Sep 08 18:04:28 <bughi1980> 	"title": "Tips",
Sep 08 18:04:28 <bughi1980> 	"icon": "file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.help/images/tips.png",
Sep 08 18:04:28 <bughi1980> 	"sort_by":["category"],
Sep 08 18:04:28 <bughi1980> 	"json_result" : "",
Sep 08 18:04:29 <bughi1980> 	"items": [
Sep 08 18:04:31 <bughi1980>    
Sep 08 18:04:33 <bughi1980> 			{
Sep 08 18:04:35 <bughi1980> 				"category": "Basics",
Sep 08 18:04:37 <bughi1980> 				"english_app_name": "Basics - RoadRunner WorldReady",
Sep 08 18:04:39 <bughi1980> 				"app_name": "basics",
Sep 08 18:04:41 <bughi1980> 				"icon": "file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.help/images/basics.png",
Sep 08 18:04:43 <bughi1980> 				"text" : "Basics",
Sep 08 18:04:45 <bughi1980>     			"url" :
Sep 08 18:04:47 <bughi1980> 				
Sep 08 18:04:51 <bughi1980>     			"http://help.palm.com:80/en-ca/c000-01/d100-04/toc/18574/index.html",
Sep 08 18:04:53 <bughi1980>     			
Sep 08 18:04:55 <bughi1980>     		"link_number" : "1: 1.100"
Sep 08 18:04:57 <bughi1980>     		
Sep 08 18:04:59 <bughi1980>     		    },   		
Sep 08 18:05:01 <bughi1980>     
Sep 08 18:05:03 <bughi1980> 			{
Sep 08 18:05:05 <bughi1980> 				"category": "Basics",
Sep 08 18:05:08 <bughi1980> 				"english_app_name": "Phone",
Sep 08 18:05:09 <bughi1980> 				"app_name": "phone",
Sep 08 18:05:11 <bughi1980> 				"icon": "file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/icon.png",
Sep 08 18:05:13 <bughi1980> 				"text" : "Phone",
Sep 08 18:05:15 <bughi1980>     			"url" :
Sep 08 18:05:17 <bughi1980> 				
Sep 08 18:05:21 <bughi1980>     			"http://help.palm.com:80/en-ca/c000-01/d100-04/toc/22198/index.html",
Sep 08 18:05:24 <bughi1980>     			
Sep 08 18:05:25 <bughi1980>     		"link_number" : "2: 1.100"
Sep 08 18:05:27 <bughi1980>     		
Sep 08 18:05:29 <bughi1980>     		
Sep 08 18:05:31 <bughi1980> as you can see, the index ripped without modifying things has hardcoded references to the hp servers
Sep 08 18:05:48 <bughi1980> so for this to work , an alias in hosts would have to be set. OR all parsed and help.palm.com:80 changed to a different location
Sep 08 18:08:53 <Preemptive> OK. Well I'll make a thread for this and email Sumy. We can do a few tests with whatever archive is working and if a simple HOSTS fix will work, we'll go ahead and try. With luck, we will fix this by next month. If not, we will at least have eliminated one possibility.
Sep 08 18:10:05 <bughi1980> ah found
Sep 08 18:10:23 <bughi1980> ( the mirror ) of the help
Sep 08 18:11:42 <bughi1980> I have 2
Sep 08 18:11:53 <bughi1980> help.palm.com , with various locales
Sep 08 18:12:03 <bughi1980> and downloads.help.palm.com
Sep 08 18:12:09 <bughi1980> this one includes the videos
Sep 08 18:12:22 <Preemptive> https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-tips-info-resources/332507-fixing-device-help-system.html
Sep 08 18:13:03 <bughi1980> actually, the latter has only videos, and are all the videos for all the devices, from the very first to the pre3
Sep 08 18:13:09 <bughi1980> some are also in german
Sep 08 18:13:25 <Preemptive> Herrie: Do you think this would be useful as an 'almost' drop-in help system for LuneOS?
Sep 08 18:13:44 <bughi1980> I've "ripped" also some cgi
Sep 08 18:14:34 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Ah... this was my concern. cgi indicates some dynamic delivery. That said, if you have it, maybe we can redeploy that code?
Sep 08 18:14:43 <bughi1980> help.palm.com had 17 diretory directly under it
Sep 08 18:14:57 <bughi1980> no, the cgi were for the search function
Sep 08 18:15:13 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Good point
Sep 08 18:15:56 <bughi1980> https://snipboard.io/5kYt3A.jpg
Sep 08 18:16:03 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Well, this could be promising. Could you post some info to the thread and we'll see what we can do over the next month?
Sep 08 18:16:34 <bughi1980> yep sure
Sep 08 18:16:51 <Preemptive> OK. Great. Let's move on.
Sep 08 18:17:03 <Preemptive> 4.6. App Store Specification. (Preemptive + others) https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-apps-games/329621-making-another-app-store.html#post3453768
Sep 08 18:17:08 <Preemptive> No updates.
Sep 08 18:17:21 <Preemptive> 4.6.1 webOS Nation App Gallery Submission And Access. (Preemptive) https://forums.webosnation.com/webosnation-com-site-news-feedback-help/332000-app-gallery-issue-reporting-thread.html
Sep 08 18:17:27 <Preemptive> No updates.
Sep 08 18:17:40 <Preemptive> 4.7 LuneOS testing protocol. (Preemptive / others) https://forums.webosnation.com/luneos/332396-luneos-testing-protocol.html#post3455344
Sep 08 18:18:12 <Preemptive> No updates. I expect the next LuneOS release will stimulate some interest.
Sep 08 18:18:25 <Preemptive> pcworld: Are you here?
Sep 08 18:18:40 <Preemptive> 4.8 Qt Clipboard Plugin. (pcworld)
Sep 08 18:18:49 <pcworld> yes
Sep 08 18:19:16 <Preemptive> pcworld: Oh Good! Anything to report?
Sep 08 18:19:43 <nizovn> i had a quick look, and it seems the clipboard file location has changed in 3.0
Sep 08 18:20:00 <pcworld> after the last meeting I opened merge requests on https://gitlab.com/nizovn/qt5-qpa-webos-plugin/merge_requests, I used the code I had written a long time ago and rebased them on the current code (but haven't had the chance to test whether they still work/compile with the new master)
Sep 08 18:20:33 <nizovn> i can't find it on my TP
Sep 08 18:21:01 <pcworld> I made/tested my patches primarily for webOS 2.2.4 (for use with telegram-desktop)
Sep 08 18:21:27 <nizovn> ok
Sep 08 18:21:49 <pcworld> I mapped copy/cut/paste to Sym-C/X/V on the phone, I think the webOS keyboard is missing such keys
Sep 08 18:22:15 <pcworld> so one would need GUI support for copy/paste on the TouchPad, or a new key on the keyboard (patched LunaCE)?
Sep 08 18:22:43 <pcworld> but might work with a bluetooth keyboard (if one figures out where the clipboard location is on webOS 3)
Sep 08 18:23:43 <pcworld> nizovn: had you put something in the clipboard? iirc when the file doesn't exist yet and you put something in the clipboard, webOS creates the file (maybe it's cleared on reboot)
Sep 08 18:24:02 <nizovn> hm, not sure
Sep 08 18:25:53 <nizovn> pcworld: seems you are right! silly me.
Sep 08 18:27:47 <nizovn> so i'll create ls2 service to make clipboard available for non root apps then
Sep 08 18:27:50 <pcworld> Back then I started experimenting with an executable with setuid set such that jailed apps (non-root) can access the clipboard, but didn't get around to finishing it
Sep 08 18:28:28 <pcworld> ls2 service sounds good to, but I never implemented one
Sep 08 18:28:32 <pcworld> *too
Sep 08 18:28:45 <Preemptive> pcworld: As the TP typically uses a long press menu, would it be possible to hook into that? Or is a keyboard mod easier?
Sep 08 18:29:41 <pcworld> one would probably need to reimplement it into Qt, but don't know if this is feasible, nizovn seems to be the QPA (Qt Qt Platform Abstraction) Expert ;)
Sep 08 18:31:00 <nizovn> well it should work with your qpa changes (for root apps), e.g. qupzilla have popup menu for copy/paste
Sep 08 18:33:16 <nizovn> for now qpa plugin simulates right mouse click on long tap
Sep 08 18:34:00 <nizovn> additional clipboard menu may be possible, need to try...
Sep 08 18:35:17 <nizovn> btw we can use the same keyboard shortcuts that were in xterm for this reason
Sep 08 18:35:21 <Preemptive> Simulating right mouse click seems logical as that is how context menus are generally summoned on desktop
Sep 08 18:35:49 <nizovn> *xecutah
Sep 08 18:37:03 <nizovn> some key was used as ctrl (under t iirc)
Sep 08 18:38:38 <pcworld> right forgot about context menu, that should contain copy/paste most of the time doesn't it?
Sep 08 18:39:04 <nizovn> well yes, it should
Sep 08 18:39:20 <pcworld> what do you mean "under t"?
Sep 08 18:39:49 <pcworld> I remember that some terminal (was it SDLTerminal?) on the Pre used the gesture bar as ctrl, but that might be more difficult to implement
Sep 08 18:40:46 <nizovn> long tap on "t" key will show additional symbols, one on the right is ctrl
Sep 08 18:43:54 <Preemptive> nizovn: I see "T" "TM" and a symbol that looks like "P" with the line extended above. Is that CTRL?
Sep 08 18:44:06 <nizovn> yes, P
Sep 08 18:44:43 <nizovn> https://github.com/webos-internals/xecutah/blob/45fa9fa57aab3787a6209646cc2351c786e66bbc/app/assistants/main-assistant.js#L96
Sep 08 18:45:04 <nizovn> ^ this is main screen tip from xecutah
Sep 08 18:45:24 <pcworld> ah interesting
Sep 08 18:46:31 <pcworld> Anyway I don't have much time to work on this at the moment (also don't have a build environment currently). If you want to do anything with it, feel free to. (maybe in a few months I could find some time)
Sep 08 18:46:57 <nizovn> yes, i'll work on it
Sep 08 18:47:32 <nizovn> now that i know this file actually exists :)
Sep 08 18:48:07 <Preemptive> Interesting progress. Thanks everybody. Shall we move on? Or is there more to add?
Sep 08 18:48:39 <Preemptive> nizovn: I'll add your name to the project.
Sep 08 18:48:48 <nizovn> ok
Sep 08 18:50:06 <Preemptive> 5. Discussion of other items.
Sep 08 18:50:17 <Preemptive> 5.1. Device back up options. http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-development/331801-options-automated-device-backup-webos-user-group.html#post3451423
Sep 08 18:50:49 <Preemptive> I did actually look at this again.
Sep 08 18:51:58 <Preemptive> I'm pretty sure I had a list of apps to test (including an old webOS app or maybe it was a Qt thing), but I can't find it anywhere.
Sep 08 18:52:39 <Preemptive> Well, there's this: https://www.qtdtools.de/page.php?tool=0&sub=9&lang=en
Sep 08 18:53:13 <Preemptive> bughi1980 suggested this on the thread: https://www.urbackup.org/
Sep 08 18:55:07 <Preemptive> Essentially, these are all was to backup data from the webOS device after it is recovered. There's no progress on was to automate the first process of backing up - collecting the data, but we seem to have fairly comprehensive information on doing this manually or semi-automated for each data type.
Sep 08 18:55:51 <Preemptive> There isn't really a shortage of backup apps - they seem mainly based on rsync.
Sep 08 18:56:23 <Preemptive> https://rclone.org/ https://restic.net/ https://rsnapshot.org/
Sep 08 18:58:34 <Preemptive> I think the preferred options are to back up to a PC, external media, "owncloud"-type personal cloud or finally a commercial cloud service
Sep 08 19:00:07 <Preemptive> I think the best thing to do is to investigate these various options and go through a back up process to check it all works.The actual back up tool will be user's choice depending on how they want to store the data.
Sep 08 19:01:18 <Preemptive> The problem of having some 'one-click' app to create a data copy for storage remains unsolved.
Sep 08 19:01:58 <Preemptive> I'll post some more to the thread and see if there are any comments, but I'll test some of these options.
Sep 08 19:02:09 <Preemptive> 5.2. webOS Vulnerabilities and Fixes. https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/331974-vulnerabilities-fixes-legacy-webos.html
Sep 08 19:02:23 <Preemptive> I'm not aware of any developments here.
Sep 08 19:02:38 <Preemptive> 5.2.1. Does the VPN app need an update? https://forums.webosnation.com/open-webos-general-discussion/332302-vpn-hp-webos.html#post3454594
Sep 08 19:03:09 <Preemptive> Possibly the Squid proxy now opens up the possibility of looking into this.
Sep 08 19:03:19 <Preemptive> nizovn: ^ ??
Sep 08 19:03:52 <pcworld> at least openvpn doesn't use TLS, not sure about other VPNs
Sep 08 19:04:37 <Preemptive> pcworld: Huh? What does it use? Surely it needs to be secure?
Sep 08 19:04:38 <nizovn> i don't know...
Sep 08 19:06:48 <pcworld> ok I'm wrong, apparently openvpn uses TLS somehow
Sep 08 19:07:28 <Preemptive> Side note: I came across this site today. I don't use a VPN, but this might be useful info. https://thatoneprivacysite.net/
Sep 08 19:07:55 <Preemptive> moving on...
Sep 08 19:08:04 <Preemptive> 5.3. LG's webOS Open Source Edition http://forum.webosose.org/
Sep 08 19:10:22 <Preemptive> I don't know if there have been anymore developments, but i saw this video https://forums.webosnation.com/open-webos-general-discussion/332031-webos-open-source-edition.html#post3456041
Sep 08 19:11:41 <Preemptive> It's more of interest for LuneOS. If OSE is integrated into LuneOS and LG are doing AI devices that are talking to each other, it might be fairky easy for LuneOS devices to plug into that eco-system
Sep 08 19:11:49 <Preemptive> *fairly
Sep 08 19:12:19 <Preemptive> I'll move on if there are no comments...
Sep 08 19:14:30 <Preemptive> 5.4. http rendering proxy https://forums.webosnation.com/general-news-discussion/332470-web-rendering-proxy.html
Sep 08 19:15:38 <Preemptive> I don't think there's anything new here and it's probably not needed for anything other than really old devices (like 1.4.5 version stuff or PalmOS devices
Sep 08 19:16:07 <Preemptive> 5.5. Two year review. General review of progress and possible future strategy.
Sep 08 19:16:40 <Preemptive> So I just added this item as it's around two years since we started this group.
Sep 08 19:17:23 <Preemptive> I though we could discuss the progress made and possibly think about future strategy.
Sep 08 19:17:59 <Preemptive> But we've been going for over two hours now, so if everyone's had enough, we can wrap it up.
Sep 08 19:18:58 <Preemptive> ...
Sep 08 19:19:31 <Preemptive> So I'll just start typing then... ;-)
Sep 08 19:20:09 <pcworld> that it's been going for two years is quite an achievement in itself isn't it ;)
Sep 08 19:20:32 <Preemptive> I'm very surprised how much progress has been made. Though some items seem surprisingly stuck.
Sep 08 19:22:48 <bughi1980> already 2 years ?!?
Sep 08 19:22:51 <Preemptive> pcworld: Yes. We shouldn't kid ourselves that webOS isn't effectively 'dead' at this point, though technically, still usable thanks to developers like Nivozn, Herrie, yourself and others who have delivered key updates to prevent webOS becoming unusable
Sep 08 19:24:28 <Preemptive> I'm wondering if we should start dropping some projects that have got stuck and perhaps think in terms of building a bridge to LuneOS.
Sep 08 19:25:27 <Preemptive> Of course, this means having to guess at when LuneOS would be in a state where it's 'better' than legacy for daily use.
Sep 08 19:26:10 <Preemptive> Imagine a graph of legacy's decline and when that line might cross the one showing LuneOS' rise...
Sep 08 19:26:22 <bughi1980> well, the thing is... I think "legacy" is not just for the sw but also the hw. so there's the love factor involved in "moving/bridging" elsewhere
Sep 08 19:27:23 <bughi1980> in a way I think it's more straighforward for the tablets
Sep 08 19:28:40 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Yes, but there are quite a few options for HW appearing. https://forums.webosnation.com/upcoming-rumored-webos-devices/331372-some-developments-hardware-world-3.html#post3455934
Sep 08 19:29:35 <Preemptive> Something may emerge that is a close Pre replacement, but the fact that there appear to be choices is good in itself
Sep 08 19:31:14 <bughi1980> maybe... one of the good things was the form factor and being easy with one hand
Sep 08 19:31:33 <bughi1980> now things keep getting big, slippery, and more towards keeping with 2 hands
Sep 08 19:32:24 <pcworld> I find it funny when I remember Pixi/Veer being released as intentionally small phones, and nowadays they release >6" and people like it
Sep 08 19:32:28 <Preemptive> Perhaps one thing we could do is start some kind of Hardware 'radar' list of HW that is in development, possibly suitable, available, tested etc. We may in the future be able to recommend certain models for use with webOS.
Sep 08 19:33:27 <bughi1980> well.. something like the samsung S10e , as dimension, would be probably ideal for 1 hand easy grip
Sep 08 19:33:43 <Preemptive> I really liked that one recently posted with the landscape keyboard, but I drew out the dimension on paper and it's huge compered to the Pre3
Sep 08 19:33:55 <Preemptive> How does it fit in a pocket?
Sep 08 19:34:03 <bughi1980> yeh, that one is like the bb passport
Sep 08 19:35:21 <bughi1980> actually they may have got their hands on stocks of passport parts and used those for the form factor/kb
Sep 08 19:36:34 <Preemptive> Anyhow, this is a bit of a vague discussion, but one we could perhaps continue in future meetings or take to the forum.
Sep 08 19:36:36 <Preemptive> https://www.fxtec.com/pro1/
Sep 08 19:36:43 <bughi1980> also, I know is not feasible, but the galaxy note would be interesting as platform
Sep 08 19:36:59 <bughi1980> they implemented gestures using the s-pen
Sep 08 19:37:26 <bughi1980> that would open interesting options for advanced gestures for lune
Sep 08 19:37:55 <Preemptive> The big question is when will LuneOS be ready? And therefore how much effort should go into maintaining legacy, and how much into bridging to LuneOS?
Sep 08 19:38:21 <bughi1980> this part is something herrie may comment onto
Sep 08 19:38:32 <Preemptive> Even if webOS-Ports have an idea of time scale, they are not going to promise anything in case the schedule slips.
Sep 08 19:38:55 <bughi1980> but I think it's a bit more complex. while lune advances, android does the same at a bigger pace
Sep 08 19:39:10 <bughi1980> and keeps adding features from webos, in one way or another
Sep 08 19:39:52 <Preemptive> I think it's mostly Herrie & Tofe doing much of the work, though I don't know what's happening behind the scenes, so I could be unaware of what others are doing.
Sep 08 19:40:23 <Preemptive> I think we will just have to examine new releases and make a decision at some point.
Sep 08 19:43:06 <Preemptive> Something to think about. Maybe I'll post something on the thread for discussion. Let's wrap the meeting up.
Sep 08 19:43:16 <Preemptive> 6. Priority Project Selection.
Sep 08 19:43:37 <Preemptive> I think we can leave this as is for now.
Sep 08 19:43:46 <Preemptive> 7. Any other business.
Sep 08 19:43:52 <Preemptive> anyone?
Sep 08 19:44:04 <Preemptive> ...
Sep 08 19:44:10 <Preemptive> 8. Date of next meeting.
Sep 08 19:45:15 <Preemptive> 13, 20 & 27 are Sundays in October. I'm ignoring the 6th as I'm probably busy.
Sep 08 19:45:37 <Preemptive> I'm thinking the 13th
Sep 08 19:46:27 <nizovn> ok
Sep 08 19:47:14 <Preemptive> Alright, if there are no objections, the 13th of October 1700GMT
Sep 08 19:49:43 <Preemptive> Thanks everybody! I'm going to get a bite to eat and test the proxy, then look at some of the back up systems.
Sep 08 19:50:10 <nizovn> bye!
Sep 08 19:50:35 <Preemptive> nizovn: Bye! And thanks again for the new proxy app!
Sep 08 19:53:01 <bughi1980> bye
Sep 08 19:54:10 <Preemptive> bughi1980: Bye! I'll look at the on device help thread - hoping for an easy fix
Sep 08 19:59:44 <bughi1980> doh... phone died at 49% battery
Sep 08 20:05:25 <bughi1980> preemptive / nizovn ? still here ?
Sep 08 20:05:56 <nizovn> yes?
Sep 08 20:06:09 <bughi1980> have you ever seen the preware icon change ?
Sep 08 20:06:30 <bughi1980> as in turning red, the package
Sep 08 20:06:40 <nizovn> i saw "birthday" preware icon once
Sep 08 20:06:42 <bughi1980> and with a simcard small icon
Sep 08 20:10:25 <nizovn> this? https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-discussion-lounge/330076-preware-birthday.html
Sep 08 20:12:14 <bughi1980> oh yes, that's the one
Sep 08 20:37:32 <bughi1980> uhm, how quickly should squid install ? it's a tad spinning
Sep 08 20:42:54 <bughi1980> ah nvm, corrupted download
Sep 08 21:04:37 <bughi1980> mmm nizovn ? I'm having issues with your feed ( with squid running )
Sep 08 21:07:07 <bughi1980> I'm getting "unable to run command /usr/bin/curl etc  https://gitlab.com/nizovn/preware_feed/tree/master/ipkgs
Sep 08 21:18:28 <pcworld> doesn't the gitlab feed need TLS 1.2?
Sep 08 21:18:37 <pcworld> so you need the proxy before you can download the feed :)
Sep 08 21:21:38 <bughi1980> yes but I installed the proxy
Sep 08 21:21:50 <bughi1980> thing is, i get that error after
Sep 08 21:22:04 <bughi1980> and I'm getting errors about the certificate elsewhere
Sep 08 21:22:55 <bughi1980> sqid gives a failed to establish a secure connection, with a protocol error
Sep 08 21:23:01 <bughi1980> and a ssl cert error
Sep 08 21:23:16 <bughi1980> certificate issuer not known
Sep 08 21:35:51 <bughi1980> yep.. getting security certificate not trusted everywhere ( hotmail etc
Sep 08 21:50:37 <bughi1980> oh... the openssl was one bump lower
Sep 08 21:54:42 <bughi1980> but is not changing things a lot. https//twitter works
Sep 08 21:54:59 <bughi1980> but gitlab gives a cert error
Sep 08 21:55:34 <bughi1980> with the older openssl from nizovn , project macaw 2018 was trying to register, while now is gives the usual white page
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