**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 17 02:59:57 2021 Jan 17 16:55:05 hello! are we meeting today? Jan 17 16:57:30 yes, seems so Jan 17 16:57:31 hi! Jan 17 16:58:19 how's the pandemic in your part of the world? Jan 17 16:59:32 Good Morning! Jan 17 16:59:35 https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up-13.html#post3457225 Jan 17 16:59:48 hello! Jan 17 16:59:51 codepoet80: I think the situation is stable here. I'm working as usual (Russia) Jan 17 17:00:35 far from stable here in the US, but manageable outside major cities Jan 17 17:01:14 I see there is still no logging. Jan 17 17:01:37 Well, let's begin Jan 17 17:03:04 1. Attendees & Introductions of new attendees. Jan 17 17:03:26 If there's anyone new here, give us a bruef, webOS - related bio Jan 17 17:03:34 *brief Jan 17 17:05:59 OK, I count 3 so far Jan 17 17:07:13 I'll skip 2. Any proposed updates to the aims or rules of the group. & 3. Possible selection of officers or area contacts. Jan 17 17:07:36 4. Progress reports. Jan 17 17:07:52 4.1 TLS Fixes & Work-arounds Jan 17 17:08:23 4.1.1 Priority Project: Upgrading TLS to at least 1.2. (dkirker) https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-discussion-lounge/332279-end-support-tls-1-0-1-1-problem.html Jan 17 17:08:38 dkirker is not here Jan 17 17:08:58 4.1.2. Squid Bump Service for retro device users https://forums.webosnation.com/hp-touchpad/332704-new-option-accessing-modern-web-squid-bump-service-retro-device-users.html#post3457136 Jan 17 17:09:19 no new news on this one Jan 17 17:09:33 http://www.webosarchive.com/docs/proxysetup/ Using the webOS Archive Proxy - webOS Documentation (codepoet80) Jan 17 17:09:36 OK Jan 17 17:09:42 its been stable since I migrated the service to a bigger VM in Azure. I keep one Touchpad permanently using it Jan 17 17:10:06 has about 9 users other than me, no complaints so far Jan 17 17:10:06 4.2. Updated meta-doctors. (Herrie, bbito) http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-internals/331796-webos-internals-meta-doctor-2017-a.html#post3451411 Jan 17 17:10:35 I'm here half Jan 17 17:10:38 Dinner soon Jan 17 17:10:53 hi Jan 17 17:11:08 Do you want to squeeze in any updates now? Jan 17 17:11:20 I guess it will mainly a LuneOS one? Jan 17 17:11:26 +be Jan 17 17:11:32 Yeah: On LuneOS side we're making leaps of progress on Android 9 based builds Jan 17 17:12:02 Good news! I still have an image for an article, shoud I get it ready? Jan 17 17:12:04 As in we got it working on Xiaomi Mido, Rosy and Tissot. Wifi, audio, sensors, screen, bt mostly Jan 17 17:12:15 Vibration Jan 17 17:12:35 Herrie: Sounds good! Jan 17 17:13:01 Calls not working yet, but we only really started last week with it, so we're happy about progress so far Jan 17 17:13:55 For legacy not much updates.. Jan 17 17:14:35 Newer Android brings also 4.9 kernels which makes Anbox a lot easier going forward Jan 17 17:14:54 So that would possibly mean running Android apps inside LuneOS Jan 17 17:17:47 Wait a minute! my PC is only on 4.4! I must look into an upgrade. For some reason Zoom went all weird yesterday and I have an important meeting coming up - might have to start over and reinstall everything. Maybe I should run the android client on webOS? ;-) Jan 17 17:18:26 Do you know how Anbox istelf is coming along? Jan 17 17:18:36 Herrie: ^ Jan 17 17:19:46 Not sure about Anbox itself Jan 17 17:20:02 But the old 3.x kernels were the main issues previously Jan 17 17:20:42 Good old Touchpad should be close to mainline kernel support with 5.11 I guess. Jan 17 17:20:45 Time to try Jan 17 17:21:12 Herrie: Are you expecting to be ready for a release soon? Jan 17 17:21:29 We'll polish up the Android 9 bits, then yes Jan 17 17:21:48 Was rocky in private life last couple of months so some things slipped a bit Jan 17 17:22:00 Idea was to have something released earlier but well Jan 17 17:22:17 Herrie: Oh, sorry to hear that. Nothing too bad I hope. Jan 17 17:22:44 We'll live :) Just very emotional stuff happening but well Jan 17 17:23:01 That's hopefully all behind and we can move forward Jan 17 17:23:39 I was able to spend more time on LuneOS in past 2 weeks compared to previous 6 months probably Jan 17 17:24:08 hang in there dude! Jan 17 17:25:13 codepoet80: Thnx, ps impressed by the speed you push things out! Jan 17 17:25:23 Lot's of nice and interesting things! Jan 17 17:25:39 Need to get to test those Hue bits still :P Jan 17 17:25:49 Herrie: I think the virus has been a bit of a pressure cooker for a lot of people in different ways. Jan 17 17:26:10 sometimes code is a nice distraction from life's challenges :-) Jan 17 17:26:25 Herrie: I was wondering about the logging. Should I email Novaldex? Jan 17 17:27:31 You could remind him Jan 17 17:27:34 Herrie: The instability is a bit confusing, maybe it's beyond his control Jan 17 17:27:38 I do so too occassionally Jan 17 17:27:51 Herrie: I'll give it a go. Jan 17 17:28:00 I have ZNC running so I have everything mostly logged in this and other channels Jan 17 17:28:10 Could upload it to the server if needed Jan 17 17:28:21 Not having logs is not helping much Jan 17 17:28:36 Txt file per channel/day Jan 17 17:29:20 Herrie: I can cut n paste, but yes, it's easier to look and see what I've missed on this and the ports channel Jan 17 17:29:52 I'll also talk with novaldex to see if we can put missing logs on server Jan 17 17:30:07 I don't think I have access to that myself, but will check first Jan 17 17:30:09 Herrie: That would be great! Jan 17 17:30:15 I can reach some stuff but not all Jan 17 17:30:41 And it's a big fs with lots of different things, so need to look around a bit probably Jan 17 17:31:02 Found: ZNC. https://wiki.znc.in/ZNC Jan 17 17:32:13 Is that what is being used anyway? What is the logging system? Jan 17 17:33:42 bughi1980: Are you here? Jan 17 17:35:36 Herrie: Well, thanks for the updates. You have earned your dinner! ;-) Jan 17 17:35:54 I can move on to 4.3....? Jan 17 17:36:46 4.3. Updated location service. (Misj, mazzinia) https://forums.webosnation.com/hp-touchpad/330935-bing-google-maps-location-unavailable.html Jan 17 17:38:41 I don't think we will get anything new here, so I'll move on. Jan 17 17:39:19 I'll skip 4.4. Manual management of the webos internals patch feed. (novaldex, Herrie) http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/326893-webosinternals-patch-portal-down.html#post3450982 Jan 17 17:39:33 4.5. Preservation / Restoration of sources of documentation (including original Palm documents, Open WebOS, git.webos-internals.org & 3rd party sources such as webOS101). (All members in the sub-sections) http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-tips-info-resources/331800-documentation-management-thread-webos-user-group.html Jan 17 17:39:46 4.5.1. Documentation policy. Jan 17 17:40:02 I don't think there are any policy updates... Jan 17 17:40:15 4.5.2. Find / improve documentation of mojo / enyo. (Misj) http://www.banneret.nl/webos/documentation/ Jan 17 17:40:24 Misj is not present Jan 17 17:40:33 4.5.3. webOSarchive.com http://www.webosarchive.com/docs/ (codepoet80) Jan 17 17:40:53 minor updates as I use it Jan 17 17:41:22 google is indexing it now and constantly emailing me about how the docs aren't mobile friendly Jan 17 17:42:01 it works on most devices I've tested, but in some mobile browsers and screen positions the menus don't pop up Jan 17 17:42:05 codepoet80: Interesting. Is that true? Or do they mean 'Google-friendly"? Jan 17 17:42:09 oh hello Jan 17 17:42:23 bughi1980: Hi! Jan 17 17:42:33 I tried hacking around HP's JavaScript/CSS nightmare but its not an easy fix Jan 17 17:43:17 so I added some PHP to detect problematic clients and display a message about how some content may be inaccessible on that device Jan 17 17:43:31 codepoet80: Is it the case that the old interface is outdated? Jan 17 17:43:55 just old code not made for modern browsers Jan 17 17:44:09 I'm wondering if there's a simple way to translate it to something modern Jan 17 17:44:22 I may eventually come up with an alternative Jan 17 17:44:53 but I'm torn between 'preserving' and rellzcing Jan 17 17:45:24 replacing Jan 17 17:45:40 I suppose we are looking at Enyo (already defunct) or maybe Polymer or a mysterious third option... HTML/CSS? Jan 17 17:46:25 its an ugly hybrid Jan 17 17:46:47 worse now that I hacked in some PHP to make management easier :-P Jan 17 17:47:23 codepoet80: I would say that the webOS mueseum and your update is new. I assume you are having a problem with the format of the legacy data. I'd say preserve the data and update the interface Jan 17 17:48:19 *always put an extra e in museum! Usually I delete before hitting enter! Jan 17 17:49:05 ya its strictly a UI problem Jan 17 17:50:28 codepoet80: I'll make a note and we can all chat about it next month (unless people want to do it now). If we can come up with some kind of plan, maybe others can help you with this. Jan 17 17:51:02 cool. ya an alternate/modern pop-up menu system shouldn't be hard to find, if we're going to rip and replace. as long as it still works with TouchPad I'm ok with that! Jan 17 17:53:09 codepoet80: I was also wondering about somekind of integration with Preware if that is practical. I know there's a feed, but in my ignorant mind I suppose I'm thinking of something like a merger. Jan 17 17:53:24 for the Museum? totally Jan 17 17:53:32 for the SDK, no way Jan 17 17:54:03 the Internet Archive content is all muddled and needs to be manually cleaned-up page-by-page just to get decent HTML Jan 17 17:55:04 hmmm... Jan 17 17:57:12 codepoet80: I keep trying to keep LuneOS in mind. That the systems differ so much now means we are basically looking at two mostly incompatible version of webOS - though there is some overlap with enyo apps Jan 17 17:57:58 well the Enyo documentation is a different beast Jan 17 17:58:28 I'm not sure the goal, but I think it would be pretty easy to pull the Enyo docs out of the SDK archive and establish them independently somewhere else Jan 17 17:58:45 the Reference material is an actual (not-very-pretty) Enyo app in itself Jan 17 17:59:02 and then there are a couple "articles" delivered in the previous HTML SDK format Jan 17 17:59:21 I've Preware2 is to be the app delivery system (working assumption) on LuneOS, it seems like extra effort to keep rebuilding the museum, but maybe the museum is the better option so could simply carry preware feeds Jan 17 17:59:58 it would also be possible (although manual) to go through the Museum meta data and add a "Enyo only" flag, then extract a Pre ware compatible feed for LuneOS Jan 17 18:00:25 the painful slog would just be the manual curation of 4000 apps... Jan 17 18:02:12 codepoet80: Yeah, I think we might be talking at slightly cross-purposes. I'm thinking about what amounts to app-storetype apps and I think you are talking about archive content in general. And yes, of course most legacy apps are mojo anyway so useless on LuneOS. Jan 17 18:03:01 it would also be possible to have a LuneOS version of the App Museum -- just give it a different metadata file, but like you say, most of the App Museum content is legacy Jan 17 18:03:16 Let's chat about this on the forum and come up with a set of questions to answer. Then we can come back here next month to nail down the answers Jan 17 18:03:26 better to stick with Preware 2, and make a feed of the few legacy apps that would work on LuneOS Jan 17 18:06:20 codepoet80: Yes, I think that might be the easiest solution. One idea though is if the museum on LuneOS displayed mojo apps and gave access to the IPK, some might be inspired to update or 'remake' some of those apps (where legally safe to do so! ;-). Jan 17 18:06:49 on that Jan 17 18:07:19 I have an email posted for take down notices, AND I've reached out to a number of vendors. not a single legal complain about the Museum to date Jan 17 18:10:03 codepoet80: Yes. Appstore, archive and museum might be a way to split this out. Appstore=current and usable, Archive=dev info old and new, Museum is old & legacy, but with some chance of an occasional revival. Something like that. Jan 17 18:10:59 honestly the only reason I put new things in the Museum is because the other channels are too slow Jan 17 18:11:36 as Herrie mentioned, I'm pumping out code lately, and it takes a month or more for Pivot to approve a new listing or update for Preware Jan 17 18:12:02 so I just pop it in the Museum. ideally the Museum only gets historical content, or updates to that content, to keep it alive. Jan 17 18:12:45 (like when I'll inevitably have to proxy Accelerated -- that'll require an app patch) Jan 17 18:12:58 Pivot should be quicker Jan 17 18:13:11 Preemptive should be able to pull some strings there? Jan 17 18:14:04 For LuneOS we cannot do Mojo due to not being open source Jan 17 18:14:26 Identifying if something is Enyo is easy. Extract all IPKs and grep around or something similar Jan 17 18:14:31 I did this previously Jan 17 18:14:45 Herrie: Maybe. I assume Pattyland is manually approving things and has no doubt got on the habit of updates being rare. I can send an email. Also, we can't know who has more or less time due to the pandemic Jan 17 18:15:13 do you think Pattyland would add another approver? Jan 17 18:15:14 This identifying Enyo shouldn't take very long Jan 17 18:15:28 Additional approver would help probably Jan 17 18:15:31 Herrie: if you can share some code/pseudo code I can run it against the archive Jan 17 18:15:40 codepoet80: Could be! I'll ask. Jan 17 18:16:25 Well no code really... I just unzipped the ipk's to folders and scanned that with an ancient tool can Hurricane Search/Wingrep Jan 17 18:16:41 Which could export stuff to csv Jan 17 18:17:12 ya with 4000 apps, I'll want to automate that Jan 17 18:18:06 for each app in folder: -unzip app to temp folder -grep temp folder -print result to text file -clean up temp folder Jan 17 18:19:05 then, for each app in text file: -search master file for metadata file name -open meta data file -add some json Jan 17 18:19:06 Well I got a beast with m.2 SSD, goes quickly here Jan 17 18:19:19 To identify them at least Jan 17 18:19:47 happy to share the archive if you want to do the scrape then give me back some kind of report file Jan 17 18:20:41 Sure ;) Jan 17 18:20:45 You can put it on the FTP I guess Jan 17 18:20:54 Let me check how much space I have left there Jan 17 18:21:19 app packages folder is 21.1gb unzipped Jan 17 18:21:52 800GB there Jan 17 18:21:58 Let me see if I gave you write permissiong Jan 17 18:21:59 +s Jan 17 18:22:12 Connection is 1Gbit symmetrical here ;) Jan 17 18:22:16 So should be fast enough Jan 17 18:22:25 And there's a m.2 SSD in that router ;) Jan 17 18:22:31 max 50mbps up here, but I'll get it started on Monday Jan 17 18:23:20 Can you do a quick test to see if you can write something? Jan 17 18:23:24 yup Jan 17 18:24:21 looks good Jan 17 18:25:53 OK Jan 17 18:26:03 If anything you know how to reach me :) Jan 17 18:27:06 sounds good, what's next? Jan 17 18:27:53 So 4.6 is appstore spec, 4.6.1 is Museum II, 4.6.2 is the app gallery. I'm inclined to skip all that for now and set up a forum discussion which we can finish off next month Jan 17 18:28:07 agree Jan 17 18:29:59 If we can come up with a plan to integrate (or split out more clearly!) app delivery, archive documentation and a museum of old apps acroos both legacy webOS and on to LuneOS, then hopefully we can stream line effort and help future development Jan 17 18:31:14 I'll try it on the (4.5) policy thread or start a new one if it's not a good fit. Jan 17 18:31:38 So.. let's move on to 5. Discussion of other items. Jan 17 18:31:52 5.1. Device back up options. http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-development/331801-options-automated-device-backup-webos-user-group.html#post3451423 Jan 17 18:32:25 I don't think there's anythng here - or nothing new Jan 17 18:32:37 5.2. webOS Vulnerabilities and Fixes. https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/331974-vulnerabilities-fixes-legacy-webos.html Jan 17 18:32:44 Nothing new...? Jan 17 18:34:18 5.2.1. Does the VPN app need an update? https://forums.webosnation.com/open-webos-general-discussion/332302-vpn-hp-webos.html#post3454594 Jan 17 18:34:54 is there any VPN server software left that the webOS client would even work with? Jan 17 18:35:11 I can't remember TBH Jan 17 18:35:20 nothing I've tried Jan 17 18:35:27 although reverse tunneling does work Jan 17 18:35:36 could conceivably be wrapped into a PDK app Jan 17 18:35:45 beyond my skill level though Jan 17 18:36:33 It might be that the squid bump solves it, but I guess it still sepends on any protocol as that might be outdated. Jan 17 18:36:50 depends on the use case Jan 17 18:37:01 if you're trying to get out to the internet squid bump does solve it Jan 17 18:37:12 5.2.2. Running 32bit java apps on 64bit systems Whether it's possible to translate existing apps or the need to emulate a 32bit system... https://forums.webosnation.com/hp-touchpad/332707-getting-touchpad-running-macos-catalina.html Jan 17 18:37:23 if you're trying to get from the public internet into your private LAN, not so much. but those use cases are pretty limited now Jan 17 18:38:49 I think the answer here was that this is do-able, but we need to get updated novacom drivers distributed. The actual java apps can run as 32bit on 64bit systems Jan 17 18:39:18 that is correct Jan 17 18:39:30 5.3. LG's webOS Open Source Edition http://forum.webosose.org/ Jan 17 18:39:30 and incidentist has it working on his github Jan 17 18:40:26 No webOS OSE updates that I see... Jan 17 18:41:09 I think Herrie has covered 5.4. LuneOS Radar. Hopefully a new release is on the horizon. Jan 17 18:41:40 So... the final straight! Jan 17 18:41:48 6. Priority Project Selection. Jan 17 18:42:06 I don't think we need to change anything...? Jan 17 18:42:47 7. Any other business. Jan 17 18:44:19 8. Date of next meeting. Jan 17 18:44:58 Of the four Sundays in February (7, 14, 21, 28), I think I prefer the 14th Jan 17 18:45:34 sounds good. I'll join if I can! Jan 17 18:45:49 I gotta drop. take care all -- stay safe! Jan 17 18:45:54 OK. Jan 17 18:46:28 So if there are no objections, 1700, 14th February 2021 Jan 17 18:46:36 ok Jan 17 18:49:05 I'll stick up the illustration for a possible LuneOS release, email Novaldex about logging and Pattyland about the pivotCE listings, then I'll set up a thread on the forum to look at options around archive and future delivery options of both apps and documentation Jan 17 18:49:34 Thanks everyone for attendng the meeting. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 18 02:59:57 2021