**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 20 02:59:57 2011 Jul 20 03:02:44 rwhitby, which app is already close enough to use as a starting place for this? Jul 20 03:02:57 the JS stuff I mean) Jul 20 03:04:15 ka6sox: xecutah Jul 20 03:05:45 good...I just need 1 assistant that will take a value (or a pick list?) Jul 20 03:15:09 lame i somehow cannot install my own xserver package, this is strange. Jul 20 03:25:30 turns out you can't update the app neatly anymore Jul 20 03:25:32 oh the hell Jul 20 03:25:41 initctl doesn't know about xserver anymore Jul 20 03:25:43 >>>.<<< Jul 20 03:25:53 * dtzWill broke everything Jul 20 03:26:39 * ka6sox locks his version :D Jul 20 03:26:49 ah the upstart stuff wasn't pushed back to the widk Jul 20 03:27:01 so is there a way to test that doen't involve tagging versions and commiting them? Jul 20 03:27:02 :( Jul 20 03:36:16 boo-urns Jul 20 03:36:17 :( Jul 20 03:36:18 lol Jul 20 03:36:21 * dtzWill bitch bithc Jul 20 03:36:46 "it runs on 1.4.5 devices, but this is the last version we release since we can't test it" Jul 20 03:36:52 (besides bitching i'm actually working to fix it) Jul 20 03:44:11 is it possible that optware has misc missing dependneices Jul 20 03:44:48 xterm doesn't dep on xft like it should Jul 20 03:57:02 ? Jul 20 03:57:15 ipkg-opt install xterm, run xterm, complains Xft doesn't exist Jul 20 03:57:18 ipkg-opt install xft Jul 20 03:57:20 all is well Jul 20 04:04:03 nbd but thought it was worth reporting :) Jul 20 04:08:30 ka6sox: I should have a hotel in Portland tomorrow for a shipping destination Jul 20 04:09:04 ka6sox: will email address when I have confirmation Jul 20 04:09:07 * rwhitby-pre bbl Jul 20 04:24:41 rwhitby, kk Jul 20 04:27:50 $#$!#%!##!% Jul 20 04:27:57 sdl doesn't set modifiers properly on key events Jul 20 04:27:58 sigh Jul 20 04:28:07 so shift+q is sent same as normal 'q' Jul 20 04:28:10 :( Jul 20 04:28:25 luuucckily there is a different, but it's gonna make this whole thing a huge PITA Jul 20 04:28:39 if you enable sdl's unicode conversion, apparently that _does_ work Jul 20 04:28:40 :/ Jul 20 04:38:04 sonofa Jul 20 04:38:06 >.< Jul 20 04:38:31 dtzWill, ?? Jul 20 04:38:44 just trying to get things working nicely on the tp Jul 20 04:38:54 and short of building an extremely painful mapping Jul 20 04:39:10 just lame that the fact that 'shift' is pressed is obscured Jul 20 04:39:25 since the keyboard doesn't count 'shift' as a /key/ but rather an internal state modifier for the OSK Jul 20 04:39:43 but then when you send q vs Q, they don't set the keysym.mod value to indicate it's "q" with "shift" Jul 20 04:40:13 nvm Jul 20 04:40:21 just things not working the way i want Jul 20 04:42:27 also makes the internal X stuff a PITA w.r.t supporting 'all devices' Jul 20 04:42:35 so just pushing forward on the touchpad-only Jul 20 04:42:35 lol Jul 20 04:42:36 :/ Jul 20 04:43:02 dtzWill: put some ifdefs in there Jul 20 04:43:18 * scoutcamper smacks Palm Jul 20 04:45:04 rwhitby: it's especially annoying w.r.t bt keyboard vs OSK Jul 20 04:45:12 ...baby steps... Jul 20 04:47:10 interesting strings in LunaSysMgr: "/hfe/yvo/yvo_vq.fb" & "Pbclevtug 2009 Cnyz Vap." Jul 20 04:51:33 "Src/ime/TabletKeyboard.cpp" Jul 20 04:53:14 hmmm Jul 20 04:53:59 Palm_612_ENubUN_xt9_2.ldb Jul 20 04:54:16 Src/ime/TabletKeymap.cpp Jul 20 04:55:41 x_palm_virtualkeyboard_layouts Jul 20 05:01:47 oh $#@%!#%#!% Jul 20 05:01:48 lol Jul 20 05:02:02 i'm in a complain-y mood :/ Jul 20 05:02:02 sigh Jul 20 05:02:08 so i can't map the unicode directly either Jul 20 05:02:17 since you can only have keycodes from 8 to 255 Jul 20 05:02:59 so i/one will have to map, say, 1024 as some combination of keys in 8<->255 Jul 20 05:03:34 psh Jul 20 05:03:46 dtzWill, get to work! :D Jul 20 05:03:51 i am! :( Jul 20 05:04:00 i dont have the patience for key binding crap! Jul 20 05:04:07 iteratively getting closer to something better Jul 20 05:04:13 scoutcamper: me either, but neither does anyone else Jul 20 05:04:13 :( Jul 20 05:04:14 lol Jul 20 05:04:27 that's why i'm complaining so much ;) Jul 20 05:04:47 nope, it's decided, you can't write a character that's not in the first 255 ascii characters Jul 20 05:04:47 lol Jul 20 05:05:22 gah Jul 20 05:05:38 i will need arrow keys if i get minecraft going Jul 20 05:05:53 :D Jul 20 05:06:20 scoutcamper: how do you get arrow keys from the existing virtual keyboard? Jul 20 05:06:20 : Jul 20 05:07:48 dtzWill, i personally would make holding down TAB make WASD into arrow keys Jul 20 05:09:24 anyone notices the web browser has a different keyboard? Jul 20 05:10:21 two extra buttons, under C and M Jul 20 05:12:25 dtzWill, could we make a different keyboard? like a "Real" Keyboard? Jul 20 05:19:34 * 0: Text (_enyo.keyboard.typeText_) Jul 20 05:19:34 * 1: Password (_enyo.keyboard.typePassword_) Jul 20 05:19:34 * 2: Search (_enyo.keyboard.typeSearch_) Jul 20 05:19:35 * 3: Range (_enyo.keyboard.typeRange_) Jul 20 05:19:37 * 4: Email (_enyo.keyboard.typeEmail_) Jul 20 05:19:39 * 5: Number (_enyo.keyboard.typeNumber_) Jul 20 05:19:41 * 6: Phone (_enyo.keyboard.typePhone_) Jul 20 05:19:43 * 7: URL (_enyo.keyboard.typeURL_) Jul 20 05:19:45 * 8: Color (_enyo.keyboard.typeColor_) Jul 20 05:20:48 fancy Jul 20 05:23:05 looks like a keyboardShow method on LunaSysMgr which takes that as an argument Jul 20 05:26:20 hahaha Jul 20 05:26:27 * scoutcamper got minecraft server going Jul 20 05:28:50 window.PalmSystem.simulateMouseClick(a, b, !0) Jul 20 05:31:34 looks like keyboardShow is only available to Luna apps Jul 20 05:33:21 * rwhitby drops that line of investigation Jul 20 05:33:48 dtzWill: sorry, but as far as I can see, the layout and mappings of the virtual keyboard are fixed in binary LunaSysMgr Jul 20 05:34:13 rwhitby: that was my conclusion as well Jul 20 05:34:20 but i think you looked harder than i did Jul 20 05:34:33 i poked at /var/palm/kb or w/e and then at the enyo keyboard stuff Jul 20 05:34:45 bummer :( Jul 20 05:34:46 and even the 9 different types of keyboards are not accessible outside of JS apps Jul 20 05:34:54 wonder why they wouldn't make that more accessible? Jul 20 05:35:17 I was thinking maybe we could hook into the pop-up alternatives on each key, but can't find where those are defined. Jul 20 05:36:00 we can change the emoticons to have different labels, but I suspect they just insert the relevant characters rather than a special keycode Jul 20 05:39:46 rwhitby: i suspect the same, unfortunatly Jul 20 05:40:20 so I think the best we could do is re-use the keyboard images to create our own replicant Jul 20 05:44:10 if none of the images have the keys we need? Jul 20 05:46:35 easy to create matching images Jul 20 05:46:36 YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Jul 20 05:46:38 YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Jul 20 05:46:42 :[ :3 :[ :3 <3 \o/ Jul 20 05:46:43 lol Jul 20 05:47:11 (irc equivalent of standing up and cheering at your desk when you hit a milestone) Jul 20 05:47:13 ... Jul 20 05:47:44 >_>, *ahem*, sorry. Jul 20 05:47:54 tell the rest of the class. Jul 20 05:48:05 rwhitby: touchpad keymappings, pending some testing Jul 20 05:48:14 qwerty, shift, definitely work Jul 20 05:48:54 vkb or bt? Jul 20 05:48:56 capslock strangely does not Jul 20 05:48:59 ka6sox: vkb Jul 20 05:49:05 but bt probably will mostly work Jul 20 05:49:08 for all 'normal' keys Jul 20 05:49:17 all keys that are represented with ascii 8<-->255 Jul 20 05:49:40 strangely, emoticons don't insert ':', '-', ')' Jul 20 05:49:45 maybe we can use those! :D Jul 20 05:51:47 nvm capslock works too Jul 20 05:52:07 'tab' doesn't work atm Jul 20 05:52:22 maybe we should make 'tab' 'control'? Jul 20 05:52:36 or make tab switch to an alternate keyset Jul 20 05:53:02 backspace doesn't work Jul 20 05:53:33 emoticon keys don't send anything via SDL at all afaict Jul 20 05:53:47 we do have the math keys and degree symbol Jul 20 05:53:50 that are arguably worthless Jul 20 05:54:47 isn't there some way to capture the codes? Jul 20 05:54:55 ka6sox: ? Jul 20 05:54:58 ka6sox: backspace and tab will work Jul 20 05:55:03 ka6sox: emoticons don't send sdl events at all Jul 20 05:55:10 not sure what you're asking Jul 20 05:55:21 my existing mappings just dind't handle tab/backspace Jul 20 05:55:29 nm...you are on it...I'll shut up :D Jul 20 05:56:25 ive created a mobile lan party out of my TP Jul 20 05:56:34 minecraft server runs Jul 20 05:56:43 and doesnt lag Jul 20 05:59:13 ka6sox: ^.^ Jul 20 06:00:56 I must learn your different imoticons...(or whatever those are called) Jul 20 06:01:13 tab works.... Jul 20 06:01:21 emoticons, and nvm me i'm just excitable, sorry about that :) Jul 20 06:03:51 aaaaaaand backspace works Jul 20 06:03:57 so as far as supporting the OSK i call it a win Jul 20 06:04:18 don't support misc characters like the euro or pound, but i'll let someone who cares more handle that ;) Jul 20 06:04:36 or at least cares enough to convince me to do it, etc Jul 20 06:04:49 (i might just be looking to wrap this up and call it a win lol) Jul 20 06:05:17 dtzWill: how about Esc, Ctrl, etc? Jul 20 06:05:24 rwhitby: i support the keys that exist Jul 20 06:05:36 anyone who wants to propose a reasonable mapping for support keys that don't exist, feel free to do so Jul 20 06:05:54 dtzWill: what would we use for a modifier? Jul 20 06:06:10 rwhitby: that's exactly the question, except for 'esc' which just needs a fall-key :) Jul 20 06:06:31 "fall-key" ? Jul 20 06:06:43 problem with symbol page keys as modifiers is that you can't really hold them down while hitting an alpha key Jul 20 06:06:46 oh like a fall-guy Jul 20 06:06:54 idk, i mean 'esc' probably just needs an otherwise unused key Jul 20 06:07:21 rwhitby: we could revisit idea of adding a bar of modifiers on-screen on the bottom of the x screen Jul 20 06:07:39 esc, control, alt, etc Jul 20 06:07:51 dtzWill: do we get to draw in the keyboard space somehow? Jul 20 06:07:53 maybe even shift just so you can explicitly hit shift if you were so inclined Jul 20 06:08:00 rwhitby: not that i'm aware of no Jul 20 06:08:13 send out-of-bounds values to SDL ? Jul 20 06:08:28 rwhitby: i mean within X, take 40 pixels off the bottom Jul 20 06:08:33 and render some boxes with text ro w/e Jul 20 06:08:35 and handle those ourselves Jul 20 06:08:51 I know - I'm asking if we can draw over the keyboard when you hit a modifier Jul 20 06:09:44 rwhitby: not that i know of, no Jul 20 06:10:05 you can scribble to the frambuffer, but since other things are doing the same, that's a bit of a losing proposition Jul 20 06:10:13 and i haven't played with how the keyboard is actually rendered Jul 20 06:10:27 frankly that sounds like a lot of pain for little gain Jul 20 06:10:48 although maybe we'll get lucky :) Jul 20 06:11:54 fwiw we also want arrow keys Jul 20 06:12:07 dtzWill, what will it take to determine what works on the BT keyboard? Jul 20 06:12:17 ka6sox: me sending someone an ipk and they reporting ^.^ Jul 20 06:12:29 ka6sox: mostly b/c i need to crash, and my bt keyboard is paired to my media center atm Jul 20 06:12:49 this version should be strictly better for touchpad users, as far as i can imagine offhand Jul 20 06:12:49 okay, let us know when thats avail and i'll test Jul 20 06:12:58 ka6sox: how do you think i test? i keep building ipk's Jul 20 06:13:12 as far as preware, no, b/c that'll require all kinds of more lameness regarding version this and control taht Jul 20 06:13:37 sigh, not to mention i currently hack around upstart since it was never pushed back into the dev cycle Jul 20 06:14:03 and fixing that was tangential to the already tedious and annoying task of investigating and fixing the keymappings Jul 20 06:14:28 understood...I'm not asking you to stay up...go to bed...thanks for all you have done! Jul 20 06:14:41 ka6sox: :D, just a shame no one else can play with it atm :( Jul 20 06:15:12 ka6sox: if you're adventurous, grab the various 'touchpad' files from xkeyboard-config and put them on your device...and update set_keymap_later to use 'touhcpad' instead of 'palm-prex' Jul 20 06:15:15 another day...I will keep plodding along with my development stuff. Jul 20 06:15:19 i'm curious how this goes with bt Jul 20 06:15:21 sounds good :) Jul 20 06:16:01 'night all, take care :) Jul 20 06:16:06 I have things that will use this when we have it :D Jul 20 06:16:09 nite dtzWill Jul 20 06:18:08 must check out whether chromium works for ssl cert access to websites. Jul 20 06:42:16 rwhitby, I assume that cross-compile.mk means widk right? Jul 20 06:42:44 ka6sox: yep Jul 20 06:43:30 * ka6sox heads to the medicine cabinet to ward off an impending migraine Jul 20 06:43:48 * halfhalo hearts widk with its node Jul 20 06:47:29 halfhalo: node got kicked out of widk the other day cause it didn't build Jul 20 06:48:34 interesting. i did a clean 10.10 vm and it built fine (both stock and after i switched it to grab from git) after moving from nonworking Jul 20 06:55:25 what about 11.04 ? Jul 20 06:58:07 didn't try it. Jul 20 08:30:26 rwhitby: pong Jul 20 08:46:47 sconix: can mode switcher blank the display on 2.1 on a Pre 2 ? Jul 20 08:47:51 rwhitby: no, the only way to do that on 2.x that I found was through sysfs and it wasn't very certain way, i.e. the display did not always turn on through power button Jul 20 08:48:25 if with blank you mean turn off... Jul 20 08:48:29 yeah Jul 20 08:48:49 that's pretty much the main reason why I use mode switcher - to turn off the screen at night on the touchstone Jul 20 08:48:53 which is a bity since now I need to manually turn it off every night Jul 20 08:48:58 yes as it was for me as well Jul 20 08:49:22 at least it still puts the sounds/blink settings as they should for night for me Jul 20 08:49:57 I should see if 3.x has any API for turning it off or do I start hunting a way again I really would like to have that feature back Jul 20 08:51:27 actually 2.x has the API for turning off but it just does not work when in charger which is stupid Jul 20 08:52:03 sigh. Jul 20 09:40:05 same here Jul 20 11:05:54 get the cover? Jul 20 11:05:58 and leave it closed? Jul 20 18:45:37 elpollodiabo1: got your changes, haven't given them a look yet Jul 20 18:45:56 hopefully will later, but other things are om-nom-nom'ing my time--bug me if you don't hear from me on that soon Jul 20 18:46:01 (please :)) Jul 20 18:46:18 but from what you described it'll probably be short sanity check and merge'em in :) Jul 20 18:52:43 PSA of sorts: looking to build up http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application_talk:X to figure out all we want from the x server Jul 20 18:52:55 and then figure out how to make that work on all devices, ideally in some non-terrible semi-general way Jul 20 18:53:14 it's a complete WIP atm, but hopefully people other than me can poke at it moving forward to help ensure we do something reasonable :) Jul 20 18:54:51 (primarily hoping for contribution on the distillation of what kinds of input we want to have a 'functional' x server) Jul 20 18:55:01 (and therefore xterm, but also misc application usage) Jul 20 19:43:14 dtzWill: alright no problem I just figured it would be easier for me to send them to you then to have to make the changes that I already have been testing. Jul 20 19:43:29 dtzWill: something witht he mendeley api definately changes Jul 20 19:43:37 cause i get the split() bug that u did Jul 20 19:44:54 yup Jul 20 19:44:57 [{"forename":"Alan","surname":"Gevins"} Jul 20 19:45:02 wasnt like that before Jul 20 19:45:06 : Jul 20 19:45:08 ;/ Jul 20 19:49:00 dtzWill: about your PSA on the X if I have suggestions of thinkgs like how to implement right click and such should I just describe it there, I have a more techinical xkeyboard info but dont know if that is what is needed. Jul 20 19:50:28 also do you think we need some kind of matrix of devices and capabilities/featuers? that can be checked off once someone tests them? Jul 20 20:15:15 dtzWill: i pushed some mendeley fixes Jul 20 22:00:24 PuffTheMagic: hooray! :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 21 02:59:56 2011