**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 18 02:59:56 2011
Aug 18 15:06:43 <Puffy_TP> anyone want a new build of wIRC?
Aug 18 15:21:41 <Tibfib> Puffy_TP: look what you've done.
Aug 18 15:22:41 <Tibfib> oh, I think voice is limited
Aug 18 15:23:12 <PatrickC> I have no reason to be in here, just looking around.
Aug 18 15:23:22 <Tibfib> OH NO HE CAN WRITE
Aug 18 15:26:24 <PuffTheMagic> what have I done?
Aug 18 15:26:24 <PuffTheMagic> oh
Aug 18 15:26:40 <PuffTheMagic> people who dont follow topic rules will get kicked!
Aug 18 15:30:38 <jhojho> meh
Aug 18 17:07:09 * dtzWill is having fun with wirc
Aug 18 17:07:24 <dtz> hi dtzWill!
Aug 18 17:07:29 <dtz> :-)
Aug 18 17:07:32 <halfhalo-work> lies!
Aug 18 17:07:39 <dtz> PuffTheMagic: it works yayayay
Aug 18 17:07:45 <dtz> and mmmmmmm enyo goodness
Aug 18 17:08:26 <dtzWill> dtz: pingaling
Aug 18 17:08:34 <dtzWill> awww, no notification yet
Aug 18 17:08:55 <dtzWill> sokay, looks good and still rather usable. ssl working here :)
Aug 18 17:09:07 <PuffTheMagic> grrr
Aug 18 17:09:49 <dtz> grr?? :(
Aug 18 17:10:08 <dtz> man this is sweet enough I might takd my bt keyboard with me....
Aug 18 17:13:41 <PuffTheMagic> http://ompldr.org/vOXliOA/wirc-enyo_2011-18-08_130520.png
Aug 18 17:13:45 <PuffTheMagic> even slicker nick list
Aug 18 17:14:30 <dtz> url-ification is on todo I'm sure... ;-)
Aug 18 17:14:54 <PuffTheMagic> not technically
Aug 18 17:14:57 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: !!! nice
Aug 18 17:15:05 <PuffTheMagic> there is a special redmine subproject for the rewrite
Aug 18 17:15:20 <PuffTheMagic> if people start adding feature requests on there i can remember them
Aug 18 17:15:40 <dtz> kk :)
Aug 18 17:20:44 <dtzWill> dtz: ping
Aug 18 17:20:47 <dtzWill> bummer
Aug 18 17:21:42 <PuffTheMagic> yes we havent got nick highlighting yet
Aug 18 17:21:49 <dtzWill> haha sorry, np
Aug 18 17:21:55 <dtzWill> just realized there's a gui for it that i hadn't even tried
Aug 18 17:21:57 <PuffTheMagic> im sure oil will be doing that today
Aug 18 17:22:22 <dtzWill> oh dera god this is sexy
Aug 18 17:22:22 <dtzWill> lol
Aug 18 17:38:49 <Tibfib>  PuffTheMagic: oh nice
Aug 18 17:38:51 <Tibfib> looks good
Aug 18 17:38:57 <Tibfib> thought it was a little boring before :)
Aug 18 17:39:57 <Tibfib> although, is it well known that green and yellow repressent op and +?
Aug 18 17:41:01 <PuffTheMagic> Tibfib: its different in every client... people learn
Aug 18 17:41:16 <PuffTheMagic> i have a half-green half-yellow icon for halfops too :D
Aug 18 17:41:20 <Tibfib> sure, but do they have to?
Aug 18 17:41:21 <PuffTheMagic> though u wont see those on freenode
Aug 18 17:41:33 <PuffTheMagic> do they have to what?
Aug 18 17:41:34 <PuffTheMagic> learn
Aug 18 17:42:02 <PuffTheMagic> there is no "standard" colors
Aug 18 17:42:09 <Tibfib> PuffTheMagic: oh, is it different for every IRC client?
Aug 18 17:42:14 <Tibfib> don't they all have @ or + ?
Aug 18 17:42:17 <PuffTheMagic> the symbols are standard
Aug 18 17:42:26 <Tibfib> yeah, so I think you should keep the symbols
Aug 18 17:42:33 <PuffTheMagic> many clients dont show the symbols
Aug 18 17:42:40 <PuffTheMagic> they abstract away
Aug 18 17:43:04 <PuffTheMagic> its only gonna take a few seconds to figure out what they mean
Aug 18 17:43:13 <Tibfib> you shouldn't make decisions based on what others do
Aug 18 17:43:16 <Tibfib> not everyone is smart ;)
Aug 18 17:43:22 <Tibfib> but, it's not a huge deal
Aug 18 17:43:23 <PuffTheMagic> i guess I can enable a "ugly" mode
Aug 18 17:43:26 <Tibfib> haha
Aug 18 17:43:31 <Tibfib> no, don't make it an option
Aug 18 17:43:31 <PuffTheMagic> in the prefs
Aug 18 17:43:43 <PuffTheMagic> Toggle On-> Ugly nick list
Aug 18 17:43:57 <Tibfib> that kind of option is rarely used and more work than it is worth
Aug 18 17:46:23 <PuffTheMagic> once there is a help scene I can add a key/legend if that would help
Aug 18 17:48:33 <Tibfib> you could do an attractive @ or + and make it pretty and clear
Aug 18 17:50:59 <PuffTheMagic> well, if you are a noob to irc even those symbols are meaning less
Aug 18 17:51:15 <PuffTheMagic> i have an idea
Aug 18 17:51:24 <PuffTheMagic> what if I put dividers in the list
Aug 18 18:14:51 <PuffTheMagic> naaa divider is ugly
Aug 18 18:15:17 <PuffTheMagic> and too hard to do in flyweightlist
Aug 18 18:16:29 <oilsworkn> hm?
Aug 18 18:17:56 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: flyweightlist dont have a fetchrow
Aug 18 18:18:21 <oilsworkn> the messages list?
Aug 18 18:18:26 <PuffTheMagic> so idk how to get the prev row
Aug 18 18:18:26 <PuffTheMagic> so that i can figure out if i should show divider or not
Aug 18 18:18:27 <oilsworkn> it runs a setuprow/getitem type thing
Aug 18 18:18:35 <oilsworkn> where are you putting dividers?
Aug 18 18:19:09 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: was thinking about putting it in the nicklist
Aug 18 18:19:20 <PuffTheMagic> did u see the latest version
Aug 18 18:19:27 <oilsworkn> i saw how it was last night
Aug 18 18:19:31 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: http://ompldr.org/vOXliOA/wirc-enyo_2011-18-08_130520.png
Aug 18 18:19:53 <oilsworkn> isntead of @/+/etc?
Aug 18 18:20:04 <PuffTheMagic> ya i was going xchat style
Aug 18 18:21:18 <oilsworkn> i like that the backlog is only "meh"
Aug 18 18:22:04 <PuffTheMagic> LOL, i just tried to close a screen shot by clicking on the x
Aug 18 18:22:05 <oilsworkn> this guy gave me an invite to IRCCloud beta
Aug 18 18:22:19 <oilsworkn> its much nicer then freenodes webchat
Aug 18 18:22:30 <oilsworkn> we'll have to steal some ideas from it :)
Aug 18 18:22:37 <Tibfib> heh
Aug 18 18:22:40 <PuffTheMagic> like what
Aug 18 18:22:56 <oilsworkn> idk yet, stuff
Aug 18 18:23:19 <Tibfib> yeah, "stuff"
Aug 18 18:23:20 <Tibfib> duh.
Aug 18 18:23:36 <oilsworkn> they notify new lines in a buffer with title bold + block of color to the left
Aug 18 18:23:42 <oilsworkn> but mentions get a count
Aug 18 18:23:56 <Tibfib> are you guys using a virtual list?
Aug 18 18:24:10 <oilsworkn> flyweightlist
Aug 18 18:24:22 <PuffTheMagic> for what part?
Aug 18 18:24:22 <PuffTheMagic> using FlyweightLists everywhere i beleive
Aug 18 18:24:55 <Tibfib> for messages themselves
Aug 18 18:25:08 <Tibfib> hmm, never used flyweightlists
Aug 18 18:25:36 <oilsworkn> Tibfib: its magical
Aug 18 18:25:44 <oilsworkn> you gotta include extra enyo stuff in your depends
Aug 18 18:25:55 <Tibfib> hmmm, who is the @warthogkernel operator?
Aug 18 18:26:03 <oilsworkn> jhojho:
Aug 18 18:26:15 <Tibfib> jhojho: yo
Aug 18 18:27:25 <oilsworkn> Tibfib: http://git.webos-internals.org/enyo/wirc/tree/depends.js
Aug 18 18:27:30 <oilsworkn> "$enyo/palm/list2/",
Aug 18 18:27:37 <Tibfib> what the
Aug 18 18:27:43 <Tibfib> are they better than virtual lists?
Aug 18 18:27:45 <oilsworkn> magics
Aug 18 18:27:46 <Tibfib> what's the advantage?
Aug 18 18:27:52 <oilsworkn> bottomUp: true
Aug 18 18:28:11 <Tibfib> hmm?
Aug 18 18:28:25 <oilsworkn> so the list is upsidedown
Aug 18 18:28:35 <Tibfib> you can't do that yourself?
Aug 18 18:28:35 <Tibfib> lol
Aug 18 18:28:43 <Tibfib> _(array).reverse()
Aug 18 18:28:44 <oilsworkn> meh
Aug 18 18:28:47 <oilsworkn> no
Aug 18 18:28:50 <oilsworkn> but it starts at the bottom
Aug 18 18:29:11 <Tibfib> haha
Aug 18 18:29:13 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: they made it just for wirc
Aug 18 18:29:20 <oilsworkn> if there was a 300+ list and we told it to scroll to the bottom
Aug 18 18:29:21 <Tibfib> magic
Aug 18 18:29:36 <oilsworkn> the normal list would need to calculate each row on its way down to know where to position
Aug 18 18:29:42 <oilsworkn> this just starts at the bottom
Aug 18 18:29:49 <Tibfib> ah, that's nice
Aug 18 18:29:53 <oilsworkn> really, its from looking at the messaging app source
Aug 18 18:29:55 <oilsworkn> they use it
Aug 18 18:30:02 <Tibfib> smart
Aug 18 18:30:05 <oilsworkn> well, a extended version of it with db wrapper stuff
Aug 18 18:30:08 <oilsworkn> we use the base
Aug 18 18:30:24 <Tibfib> you use secret stuff
Aug 18 18:35:06 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: u prob didnt see my comment this am, i think we should make the prefs (global and server) use the pullout code that the nicklist uses
Aug 18 18:35:39 <oilsworkn> you mean the dismiss stuff?
Aug 18 18:36:13 <oilsworkn> oh
Aug 18 18:36:14 <PuffTheMagic> no, i mean instead of destroying the "secondary" panel, use a pullout the covers the secondary
Aug 18 18:36:16 <Tibfib> interesting how you can depend on a depends.js: http://git.webos-internals.org/enyo/wirc/tree/depends.js
Aug 18 18:36:19 <oilsworkn> the pop in from the right
Aug 18 18:36:22 <PuffTheMagic> ya
Aug 18 18:36:22 <Tibfib> what if you depended on the file itself
Aug 18 18:36:31 <Tibfib> depends.js ( "depends.js")
Aug 18 18:36:47 <Tibfib> magic double rainbow unicorn explosion?
Aug 18 18:36:51 <oilsworkn> PuffTheMagic: but using the full panel width gives us a number of advantages
Aug 18 18:36:56 <oilsworkn> #1 being screen space
Aug 18 18:37:17 <oilsworkn> #2 is that preferences dont need to be event driven to update the channel or server after its saved
Aug 18 18:37:25 <oilsworkn> because the panel is reopened after they're saved
Aug 18 18:37:53 <oilsworkn> im sure there is more, but i think those two are good enough reason
Aug 18 18:38:05 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: the pullout could still be full width/height
Aug 18 18:38:35 <oilsworkn> but again, its over the top
Aug 18 18:38:46 <oilsworkn> which means you need to do fancy stuff to send the prefs across everywhere that may be under it
Aug 18 18:39:09 <oilsworkn> the current system is simple
Aug 18 18:39:44 <PuffTheMagic> cant just trigger a re-render?
Aug 18 18:40:20 <oilsworkn> :/
Aug 18 18:40:40 <Tibfib> it's not very easy IIRC
Aug 18 18:40:58 <Tibfib> gotta hack it a little
Aug 18 18:41:09 <oilsworkn> im pretty shocked mojo-wirc got as far as it did as much as we just completely disagree on things
Aug 18 18:41:17 <Tibfib> lol
Aug 18 18:42:00 <Tibfib> spaz usually goes like this: "He so what do you think about ____?" "Nah, let's do this" "Okay"
Aug 18 18:43:45 <oilsworkn> thats usually how it goes here
Aug 18 18:43:51 <oilsworkn> but instead of "Okay"
Aug 18 18:43:57 <oilsworkn> repeat the first question a little differently
Aug 18 18:44:00 <oilsworkn> and repeat forever
Aug 18 18:44:19 <PuffTheMagic> :/
Aug 18 18:44:31 <Tibfib> funkatron is pretty open and we settle on good compromises a lot
Aug 18 18:44:36 <oilsworkn> lol
Aug 18 18:44:53 <Tibfib> I'm actually pretty happy with that. ;P
Aug 18 18:45:28 <Tibfib> I think the key to the success there is funkatron is the boss, and everyone else is like ... mini-bosses
Aug 18 18:46:01 <Tibfib> co-bosses doesn't seem to work as well unfortunately. People are too different
Aug 18 18:47:40 <Tibfib> and my final thought on the matter: it also helps that I basically lead the UI and funkatron did the backend and others filled in the gaps.
Aug 18 18:49:40 <PuffTheMagic> Tibfib: it started out that I did the backend shit and oil did the frontend, but the backend dont change much
Aug 18 18:49:53 <oilsworkn> so he jumped into my pool and made all sorts of waves
Aug 18 18:49:58 <Tibfib> hahaha
Aug 18 18:50:11 <oilsworkn> didnt use the steps, it was a cannonball
Aug 18 18:50:16 <oilsworkn> lol
Aug 18 18:50:29 <PuffTheMagic> :(
Aug 18 18:50:44 <PuffTheMagic> even with the fighting things wouldnt have progressed nearly as fast as they do if I didnt help with gui stuff
Aug 18 18:50:55 <oilsworkn> yeah
Aug 18 18:51:05 <Tibfib> oil's lazy
Aug 18 18:51:10 <oilsworkn> totally
Aug 18 18:52:42 <oilsworkn> it helps that enyo is a lot more "do little bits and use them multiple times" then mojo was
Aug 18 18:52:51 <Tibfib> yeah it does
Aug 18 18:54:15 <oilsworkn> Tibfib really needs to get a touchpad
Aug 18 18:54:24 <Tibfib> yes, yes I do
Aug 18 18:54:29 * oilsworkn goes to lunch
Aug 18 18:54:32 <Tibfib> funkatron should have shipped it today
Aug 18 18:55:52 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: many of our fights are really a result of me trying to understand oilsworkn's logic behind a decision and him resisting to share
Aug 18 18:56:25 <PuffTheMagic> but we do have plain difference of opinion fights all the time
Aug 18 18:59:07 <PuffTheMagic> oakridgeoutdoors: you got touchpad/
Aug 18 18:59:08 <PuffTheMagic> ?
Aug 18 19:00:18 <oakridgeoutdoors> yes. i was fortunate to have a family member get one for me as a gift.
Aug 18 19:00:38 <PuffTheMagic> oakridgeoutdoors: need/want a wirc-enyo beta?
Aug 18 19:01:28 <oakridgeoutdoors> Sure. I can help with some testing or whatever.
Aug 18 19:01:32 <dtzWill> hmm, apparently my tp timed out :(
Aug 18 19:02:09 <sconix> PuffTheMagic: I could test as well
Aug 18 19:02:33 <PuffTheMagic> oakridgeoutdoors: not so much "testing" as just early access to awesomeness on the TP
Aug 18 19:02:42 <PuffTheMagic> i will give you both a link to a new build shortly
Aug 18 19:02:47 <sconix> PuffTheMagic: I am interest to see how it shows the finnish letters so that do I need to start bug you guys about charset feature :)
Aug 18 19:03:11 <sconix> at least mojo wirc sucks big time, showing them ok for some users but not for all :(
Aug 18 19:04:14 <oakridgeoutdoors> great. thanks
Aug 18 19:06:58 <PuffTheMagic> oakridgeoutdoors: im tethering right now with terrible service
Aug 18 19:07:11 <PuffTheMagic> oakridgeoutdoors: so gtalk isnt the best way to talk to me right now
Aug 18 19:07:20 <oakridgeoutdoors> ok
Aug 18 19:10:30 <PuffTheMagic> sconix: i dont like thinking about the mojo version
Aug 18 19:10:59 <sconix> yeah me neither ;)
Aug 18 19:11:08 <sconix> thats why I want to test the enyo version
Aug 18 19:11:13 <PuffTheMagic> it was nice, once upon a time....
Aug 18 19:11:28 <sconix> yes but now its like I would not like to touch it with a long stick :)
Aug 18 19:11:32 <sconix> enyo is just so much nicer
Aug 18 19:12:55 <PuffTheMagic> sconix: same here
Aug 18 19:13:28 <sconix> I just wish the phones would catch the enyo action soon
Aug 18 19:13:56 <sconix> I wonder does pre3 have enyo with it in webOS 2.2
Aug 18 19:14:07 <sconix> at least there was some rumors but was they only that or is it true
Aug 18 19:14:08 <PuffTheMagic> it better
Aug 18 19:14:09 <PuffTheMagic> but then again
Aug 18 19:14:22 <PuffTheMagic> i dont think im ever gonna have a new webos phone
Aug 18 19:14:27 <PuffTheMagic> so im not to worried about it
Aug 18 19:14:42 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: no? :(
Aug 18 19:15:34 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: im not gonna move our family plan off sprint and pay over 1200 more a year for webos phones
Aug 18 19:15:37 <PuffTheMagic> its just not worth it
Aug 18 19:16:27 <sconix> I am just so happy that here you don't need any such plans that connect you to a certain carrier
Aug 18 19:20:22 <PuffTheMagic> Tibfib: you know off hand how to make a divider caption show up on the right instead of the left?
Aug 18 19:20:37 <Tibfib> hmmm, I do not
Aug 18 19:20:50 <Tibfib> I'm going to guess you will just have to re-order some components in the divider kind
Aug 18 19:20:55 <Tibfib> or a css change
Aug 18 19:21:04 <PuffTheMagic> thought i saw a css option for it
Aug 18 19:21:08 <PuffTheMagic> i will hgave to look again
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 19 02:59:57 2011